WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:02.879 One benefit of VIP membership is access to our back 2 00:00:02.919 --> 00:00:08.519 issue library, contemporaneous in depth insider reporting on pro wrestling 3 00:00:08.919 --> 00:00:11.759 in real time over the past thirty plus years and 4 00:00:11.759 --> 00:00:13.599 throughout the year twenty twenty two. We're going to begin 5 00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:16.000 our march through the year two thousand and two with 6 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:20.839 back issues posted each week in PDF and all text formats. 7 00:00:20.839 --> 00:00:22.440 You can read it in a PDF format with our 8 00:00:22.440 --> 00:00:26.120 original magazine slash newsletter style layout on your screen and 9 00:00:26.160 --> 00:00:29.320 flip through the pages, or you can read a straightforward 10 00:00:29.399 --> 00:00:31.960 all text format on your phone or tablet or laptop. 11 00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:33.960 The back issues early in two thousand and two covered 12 00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:37.200 the arrival of Scott Hall, Kevinash, and Holkogan to WWE 13 00:00:37.479 --> 00:00:40.520 and all the controversy that came with them, plus my 14 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:43.880 cover story that broke the news on the planned launch 15 00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:47.200 by Jerry and Jeff Jarrett of a promotion called TNA. 16 00:00:47.920 --> 00:00:49.920 Also the early two thousand and two features are two 17 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:52.759 thousand and one Year in Review features, including ranking Pro 18 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:57.280 Wrestling's most influential powerbrokers and our Torch year end awards, 19 00:00:57.679 --> 00:01:01.119 the year in Quotes, and the top fifth stories ranked 20 00:01:01.119 --> 00:01:03.679 in order from the year two thousand and one. 21 00:01:03.880 --> 00:01:06.480 So go VIP and dive into our back issues. 22 00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:08.840 We have most of our back issues available as soon 23 00:01:08.879 --> 00:01:11.040 as you sign up, with new back issues week by 24 00:01:11.079 --> 00:01:13.079 week from the year two thousand and two, one at 25 00:01:13.079 --> 00:01:16.159 a time throughout the year twenty twenty two. PW Torch 26 00:01:16.200 --> 00:01:19.400 dot Com slash go VIP. PW torch dot Com slash 27 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:24.159 go VIP. That's pwtorch dot Com. Slash go vip for 28 00:01:24.200 --> 00:01:28.319 full information and our sign up form. It's more than podcasts. 29 00:01:28.359 --> 00:01:32.040 It's an unmatched library of wrestling history spending more than 30 00:01:32.079 --> 00:01:34.599 three decades. As soon as you sign up, with more 31 00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:36.599 issues added throughout the year. 32 00:01:47.959 --> 00:01:52.000 Now, PW Torch and Speaker bring you the Wade Keller 33 00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:54.159 Pro Wrestling Podcast. 34 00:01:57.439 --> 00:01:58.079 Five years ago. 35 00:01:58.120 --> 00:02:00.239 This week on the Way Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast, the 36 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:03.920 special Roundtable episode I hosted with three guests who all 37 00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:08.039 attended aw Revolution, the pay per view in Chicago in person. 38 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:12.319 PW torches Travis Bryant, Joel Dennell, and former Progressing Torch 39 00:02:12.319 --> 00:02:15.240 columnist Eric Croull all gave their thoughts on attending. They've 40 00:02:15.240 --> 00:02:17.840 shared stories and observations. They all had different opinions and 41 00:02:17.879 --> 00:02:20.439 different experiences at the event, and they all have a 42 00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:23.639 different backstory, Travis was not a regular AW viewer, Eric 43 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:25.599 Crowe lapsed being a fan and then returned because of 44 00:02:25.639 --> 00:02:28.280 New Japan and AW and Joel had watched all of 45 00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:32.439 AW from the beginning. It's a fun, informative show discussing 46 00:02:32.439 --> 00:02:35.360 the pros and cons of certain booking decisions, What's next 47 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:38.039 Orange Cassidy, whether the time was right for John Moxley, 48 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:41.000 what AW has on their hands with Hangman Page, and 49 00:02:41.039 --> 00:02:44.599 so much more, plus some brushes with fame, comparisons to 50 00:02:44.639 --> 00:02:47.520 crowds and past eras, and much more. Real fun discussion 51 00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:49.479 over an hour and a half in length, and it 52 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:52.599 is Today's Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast. Five Years Ago 53 00:02:52.719 --> 00:02:56.879 Roundtable Flashback four Wednesday, March fifth, twenty twenty five. This 54 00:02:56.960 --> 00:03:00.400 originally dropped on March third, twenty twenty way. This is 55 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:04.000 the last AW pay per view before COVID shut down 56 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:06.319 live attendance and traveling shows. 57 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:19.439 Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Keller 58 00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:21.000 Pro Wrestling Podcast. 59 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:25.680 All right, so my first topic is to you Travis 60 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:30.719 Bryant as a infrequent AW viewer, and you can put 61 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:35.159 more context on that, talk about the reasons that you 62 00:03:35.439 --> 00:03:38.599 have chosen not to watch AW because different people different 63 00:03:38.599 --> 00:03:41.039 reasons for what they watching to watch. And then also 64 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:43.960 what drew you to going to the show Saturday night 65 00:03:44.919 --> 00:03:49.159 AW Revolution And we'll kind of go from there and 66 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:51.240 build on that because we're going to have an interesting 67 00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:52.560 discussion with different perpective here. 68 00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:57.159 Well, I'll answer the last question first, and the ticket 69 00:03:57.199 --> 00:04:00.280 was free. My buddy broke up with his girlfriend and 70 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:02.439 they were going to drive from Cincinnati and he had 71 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:04.479 a ticket asked if I wanted to go, all I 72 00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:06.080 had to do was get there. 73 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:11.919 So I board a plane ticket and didn't know we 74 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:12.560 did a hotel. 75 00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:18.199 I wasn't an America's guest this time, but. 76 00:04:17.879 --> 00:04:19.319 But I did get to go to Chicago for the 77 00:04:19.319 --> 00:04:20.319 first time, so that was cool. 78 00:04:20.439 --> 00:04:21.600 Oh wow cool? 79 00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:26.279 Yeah yeah yeah, but but yeah, so I got there 80 00:04:26.319 --> 00:04:28.600 because there was a there was a ticket for me. 81 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:35.160 But I haven't watched AW since the big December eighteenth show. 82 00:04:35.480 --> 00:04:38.079 I think that was the show that had the you know, 83 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:44.279 the twenty minute Jericho party with Virgil and Fixed Bake, 84 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:47.360 Vapor Rub and you know, it was a sports entertainee 85 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:51.079 as as as anything Vince has ever done, and kind 86 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:53.600 of worse because it was a derivative, and you know 87 00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:55.959 they at least they I don't say they do it good, 88 00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:57.360 but they were used to doing it. 89 00:04:57.399 --> 00:04:59.639 This was just so I was turned off completely. 90 00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:02.040 I just stopped watching and all dud was focused on 91 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:05.079 NXT and at the time I wasn't watching Rawer SmackDown 92 00:05:05.079 --> 00:05:09.839 in NXT. From pretty much from November to just a 93 00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:13.720 few weeks ago, was it. I still haven't watched an 94 00:05:13.720 --> 00:05:18.399 aw TV. I did see some of the promo stuff 95 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:19.959 literally and figure tive. 96 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:21.160 I saw the actual. 97 00:05:20.839 --> 00:05:25.199 Promos from the Bucks and that sit down interviewed they 98 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:30.519 had with Page and Omega, and. 99 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:31.560 That was interesting. 100 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:34.360 It made me think, well, now I want to see 101 00:05:34.439 --> 00:05:41.120 the Bucks lose and lose very badly. They were always okay. 102 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:43.600 I didn't hate them and like the way they wrestled, 103 00:05:43.639 --> 00:05:49.800 and but I didn't hate them. But yeah, maybe I'll 104 00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:53.040 come back. As far as like the Wednesday, we'll see tomorrow, 105 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:57.920 I probably will watch because I probably set up TV 106 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:01.079 with n XT sound down, lap Chap with aw with 107 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:04.519 the sound with the sound up. That's probably how I'll 108 00:06:04.519 --> 00:06:07.360 do it tomorrow, like I used to, just to see 109 00:06:07.360 --> 00:06:11.160 the follow up from the show, which was a fairly 110 00:06:11.240 --> 00:06:12.000 enjoyable show. 111 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:15.600 I got over it, like yeah and well yeah. 112 00:06:15.639 --> 00:06:18.000 So we'll kind of explore kind of the micro take 113 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:22.439 on everything as we move forward. Another panelist here is 114 00:06:23.319 --> 00:06:27.040 Eric Crowl, who was a Pro Wrestling Torture newsletter columnist 115 00:06:27.079 --> 00:06:28.480 almost thirty years ago. 116 00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:31.519 Eric, you're also a journalist by. 117 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:34.519 Trade, and I would say that you have qualified as 118 00:06:34.519 --> 00:06:36.680 a lapsed fan at times over the last thirty years. 119 00:06:36.680 --> 00:06:40.279 Talk a little bit about your your journey to AEW. 120 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:42.879 I know you're a Chicago NATA, so that had a 121 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:45.399 lot to do with it, but also where you stand 122 00:06:45.439 --> 00:06:48.439 as far as your viewing of aw Okay. 123 00:06:48.519 --> 00:06:54.680 So I started raise a family and bailed right around three, 124 00:06:55.399 --> 00:06:57.519 and I had about a fifteen year gap, so I 125 00:06:57.560 --> 00:07:01.360 missed all of the bad WWE years and the Wasteland years, 126 00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:04.639 the years in the Wilderness. Came back in twenty eighteen 127 00:07:04.759 --> 00:07:09.279 because of Jericho Omega and New Japan. Watched New Japan 128 00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:15.959 fairly religiously, got into being the elite. Has been at 129 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:21.000 both All In and All Out and then Saturday Show 130 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:24.800 and throw in some NXT and ROH over the years. 131 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:29.079 Even I went to Dallas for g One. So that's 132 00:07:29.120 --> 00:07:32.600 my kind of perspective and experience on how I came 133 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:35.519 back to watch. I watched AW Dark every week, I 134 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:40.079 watched Dynamite, I watch Being the Elite, Right, So I 135 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:44.120 am about as diehard aw as you could get these days, 136 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:46.160 I guess in terms of consuming the content and the 137 00:07:46.199 --> 00:07:47.199 TV shows and. 138 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:49.720 What other content of prog wrestling are you watching if 139 00:07:49.720 --> 00:07:50.959 anything regularly? 140 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:57.800 No New Japan and NXT. I even watched NXT UK 141 00:07:58.920 --> 00:08:01.240 last week. Ask forward to a lot of it. But 142 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:04.199 I do like EDXC. I really can't watch main roster 143 00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:07.879 w w E. It just it's just not my thing. 144 00:08:09.319 --> 00:08:11.319 And why and why not? I mean just kind of 145 00:08:11.319 --> 00:08:12.639 short answer on that. I could do an hour. 146 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:15.680 Yeah, well, the time commitment is five hours. It's not 147 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:19.439 It's not the Monday Night Wars when I was single 148 00:08:19.480 --> 00:08:22.319 and didn't have kids, I could watch five you know, 149 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:25.240 all that, All of that, all of those hours of 150 00:08:25.240 --> 00:08:29.839 wrestling not anymore. And RAW is just such a slog 151 00:08:29.959 --> 00:08:34.519 most weeks, and I just I don't find the act, 152 00:08:34.639 --> 00:08:37.759 the in ring action to be all that compelling. They 153 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:39.919 drop storylines, I mean, all the common reasons, all the 154 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:43.440 common complaints people have about w w E. If I'm 155 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:45.000 born on a Sunday night and I've got all my 156 00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:48.679 work done, I'll pop on the pay per views since 157 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:50.000 you're paying for the network anyway. 158 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:51.200 Yeah, yep. 159 00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:55.039 And then Joeldenel who people whose sort of this to 160 00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:58.000 the WAKEL Defrosing post show familiar with his voice now 161 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:02.639 as a regular co host on the AW Dynamite post show. Joel, 162 00:09:02.679 --> 00:09:05.879 we know that you watch AW every week, you write 163 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:08.440 the hits and missus columns for pw toorch dot com. 164 00:09:09.200 --> 00:09:13.120 But you you made it out to Chicago for this show, 165 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:15.000 So just talk. 166 00:09:14.799 --> 00:09:17.080 About why you, uh, because I know there's a little 167 00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:18.600 bit of a story we covered it, uh in yours 168 00:09:18.679 --> 00:09:20.679 the last time you were co hosts, but a little 169 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:23.000 bit about you attending live AW shows. 170 00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:24.080 Yeah. 171 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:26.600 So it all started with just going to All In 172 00:09:27.159 --> 00:09:30.360 and that was a show where it had all these 173 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:32.279 stars that I'd always wanted to see because, as you know, 174 00:09:32.320 --> 00:09:34.480 we in Minnesota, we don't get a whole lot of 175 00:09:34.519 --> 00:09:36.159 great wrestling shows that come here. 176 00:09:36.200 --> 00:09:38.000 Every once in a while, they'll throw us a B. 177 00:09:38.039 --> 00:09:41.120 Show WWE pay per view, but mostly it's you know, 178 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:44.759 house shows and kind of not great WWE stuff. Every 179 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:46.480 once in a while we'll get those NXD house shows, 180 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:48.879 which are which are kind of fun. But yeah, it 181 00:09:48.919 --> 00:09:51.279 goes back to All In and it was within driving 182 00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:54.120 distance of Minneapolis, only about a six hour drive or so, 183 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:59.000 and yeah, just going there and you know, really getting 184 00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:01.840 behind a lot of these stars and seeing that you know, 185 00:10:01.879 --> 00:10:04.360 there are some legs to what these guys are doing here, 186 00:10:04.759 --> 00:10:08.639 and getting behind this idea that Cody wanted to start 187 00:10:08.679 --> 00:10:12.480 something that was a totally new, different kind of wrestling 188 00:10:12.519 --> 00:10:15.919 show that you know, goes back to the basics of wrestling. 189 00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:18.720 It's wrestling, booking one oh one, telling these simple stories, 190 00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:20.360 not over complicating stuff. 191 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:22.600 And since then, I've. 192 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:25.120 Wanted to go to pretty much all of their major shows, 193 00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:27.919 or at least their pay per views. I missed Full Gear, 194 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:30.840 which was in Baltimore, just the logistics of that one 195 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:33.879 didn't work out. But I'd been to All In, Double 196 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:37.799 or Nothing, all Out Revolution, and then I will be 197 00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:40.840 at Double or Nothing this coming May, and then I'll be. 198 00:10:40.840 --> 00:10:43.559 Going to All Out again for Labor Day weekend. 199 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:46.279 So just trying to follow all their major shows and 200 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:49.320 just being a part of it, experiencing it and learning 201 00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:53.440 about why this wrestling is different from what's been presented 202 00:10:53.480 --> 00:10:54.879 with WWE for so long. 203 00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:57.840 So Joe, I'm going to ask a follow up to 204 00:10:57.879 --> 00:10:59.720 you on this first, which is it being to as 205 00:10:59.759 --> 00:11:03.080 many big AEW events as you've been to now, the 206 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:06.879 standalone shows, not the weekly TV series. Have you noticed 207 00:11:06.879 --> 00:11:11.159 in evolution in the fan in the type of fan demographically, 208 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:16.039 their enthusiasm, who they're responding to, and the way that 209 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:17.679 AW caters to them. 210 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:19.240 Just kind of tackle that. 211 00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:21.480 As you look at the I guess the last almost 212 00:11:21.519 --> 00:11:22.759 I guess a year and a half now that you've 213 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:25.279 been going to AW shows or such as All In, 214 00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:27.000 was it counts. 215 00:11:26.919 --> 00:11:30.279 Yeah, that's yeah, definitely, And that's a really good question 216 00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:32.440 because I was actually thinking about that while I was 217 00:11:32.480 --> 00:11:35.720 at the show, that going back to All In and 218 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:38.360 Double or Nothing. So All In was that special, you know, 219 00:11:38.759 --> 00:11:41.480 built as the biggest independent wrestling show of all time. 220 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:44.519 So it got all these hardcore fans from all across 221 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:46.799 the world who came to this one event who really 222 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:48.519 wanted to make everything success. 223 00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:49.840 They were cheering for everything. 224 00:11:49.879 --> 00:11:52.440 They weren't going to poo poo, you know, anything that 225 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:55.000 was perceived as bad. And it was the same thing 226 00:11:55.000 --> 00:11:56.799 for Double or Nothing, where everyone wanted to be. 227 00:11:56.720 --> 00:11:57.759 At the first pay per view. 228 00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:01.600 And now what I've seen at revel was it almost 229 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:03.440 felt like there was two different. 230 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:04.919 Kinds of fans at this show. 231 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:06.519 That it was the. 232 00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:10.440 Younger, you know, I would say probably you know, twenties 233 00:12:10.519 --> 00:12:14.759 to mid thirties, you know, fan who's into AW. 234 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:18.039 They liked being the elite, they liked New Japan stuff. 235 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:20.399 And then I also saw a lot of kind of 236 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:24.240 older fans who I can't think of a better way 237 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:27.279 to describe them than I think it was on your 238 00:12:27.279 --> 00:12:29.200 pay per view roundtable where it was kind of like 239 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:31.759 almost those older wrestling fans who. 240 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:35.240 You know, would chant things like like. 241 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:38.320 You fed up and kind of you know, derogatory stuff 242 00:12:38.360 --> 00:12:40.799 like that. And I noticed this a lot too during 243 00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:43.000 the Nila Rose and Chris stat Lander match, where there 244 00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:46.960 was a lot of just very negative, negative things being 245 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:50.000 shouted at the ring. And that was not my experience 246 00:12:50.039 --> 00:12:53.159 at all from All In or Double or Nothing, and 247 00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:55.919 even All Out was kind of more of those hardcore fans. 248 00:12:55.960 --> 00:12:58.360 But now it seems like that there's a lot of 249 00:12:58.360 --> 00:13:01.960 different people who are now coming to these AW shows 250 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:04.279 and you're getting the different mix of the two different 251 00:13:04.360 --> 00:13:04.960 kinds of fans. 252 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:09.759 I'd make this observation the other shows you mentioned, I 253 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:12.960 think we're all fly in shows, all in and all 254 00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:16.679 out where I know Vegas for sure? Was this one 255 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:20.679 was I think there was no star cast. I get 256 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:23.159 the sense that it was probably a bigger mix of 257 00:13:23.240 --> 00:13:27.200 local Chicago ins and fewer travel people would be my guests. 258 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:30.600 And this one was in a different building and attached 259 00:13:30.639 --> 00:13:35.159 to a comic convention I think fantasy cosplay type of thing, 260 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:37.799 so that might have had something to do with that. 261 00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:40.360 Have you, Joe, have you noticed if you've noticed it 262 00:13:40.519 --> 00:13:42.039 just at Revolution. 263 00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:45.559 Yeah, that this was the first time that that really 264 00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:47.879 kind of stood out to me that it seemed like 265 00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:49.720 a lot of the people who I would see at 266 00:13:49.759 --> 00:13:53.720 kind of WWE shows, We're now finally going to these 267 00:13:53.720 --> 00:13:54.799 aew events. 268 00:13:56.799 --> 00:13:58.679 We're about to go to a commercial break. Why lessen 269 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:01.639 the commercial breaks when you can go vip and experience 270 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:04.159 our shows with the ads and plugs removed. Pw torch 271 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:08.000 dot com slash go vip. That's PW torch dot com 272 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:11.080 slash go vip for full details, or go to Patreon, 273 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:14.879 Patreon dot com, slash PW Torch vip ratestart as low 274 00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:17.039 as four dollars in ninety nine cents to remove the 275 00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:20.120 ads and plugs through Patreon. Full VIP membership starts at 276 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:22.519 nine dollars in ninety nine cents to reach yourself to 277 00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:26.200 a streamlined, ad unplug free listening experience with a VIP 278 00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:31.080 or Patreon membership. All right, well, I'll pause for a 279 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:33.600 moment and set the table and introduce the show. This 280 00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:37.720 is the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast, recorded Tuesday, March third, 281 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:42.480 twenty twenty. It's a wildcard Tuesday edition once again where 282 00:14:42.519 --> 00:14:45.879 we vary up the format on Tuesdays. And this is 283 00:14:45.879 --> 00:14:51.799 a first fun roundtable panel discussion on a particular single 284 00:14:51.799 --> 00:14:54.360 topic on the Weadkiller Person post show. We have on 285 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:58.320 site correspondence on just about every show after Raw Dynamite 286 00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:01.399 and SmackDown every Monday, Wednesday and fri And today we've 287 00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:07.240 got three special onseite correspondents from Chicago on Saturday night 288 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:11.480 who attended AW Revolution. The voices you hear are Travis 289 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:14.440 Bryant from the PW Torch East Coast Cast, a frequent 290 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:16.799 co host of the Wayde Keller Person post shows over 291 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:21.879 the years, and he is a infrequent aw viewer, but 292 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:25.879 attended in Chicago all Another perspective comes from Joel Denell, 293 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:28.600 who is a regular co host on the Dynamite post 294 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:31.720 shows and has watched pretty much every minute of AW 295 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:34.799 and has attended almost all their major shows and writes 296 00:15:34.840 --> 00:15:38.440 the AW Hits and Missus column for PW torch dot com. 297 00:15:38.679 --> 00:15:41.399 So he gives his perspective on attendaning in Chicago. And 298 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:46.000 then Eric Kroll, longtime Progressing torchuing newsletter subscribers know his name. 299 00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:48.360 He was a columnist for Progressing Torch in the early 300 00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:52.200 nineteen nineties. He is now an investigative reporter at the 301 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:56.159 Chicago's Tribune. And he was a lapsed fan for about 302 00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:59.799 fifteen years and he was pulled back in by New 303 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:04.360 Pro Wrestling and now AW and watches almost primarily but 304 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:08.519 not exclusively, a w on a weekly basis now. And 305 00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:12.039 he gives his perspective from attending the show on Saturday night. 306 00:16:12.279 --> 00:16:18.120 So different ages and different perspectives and different backgrounds, and 307 00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:24.159 we're going to talk about the on site perspective, brushes 308 00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:27.320 with fame, thoughts on production, how the fans are different, 309 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:29.320 all kinds of topics boct that plus also the booking, 310 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:32.399 the decision to have Christ Jericho drop the title, John 311 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:37.240 Moxley win the title. Hangman page Orange Cassidy Jurassic Express, 312 00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:40.159 Cody Rhodes, so a lot coming up on the show. 313 00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:43.279 It's a fun group to have for this kind of 314 00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:45.039 discussion and I think you're going to really enjoy it. 315 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:47.679 So let's get back to it. Let's jump back into 316 00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:48.279 the discussion. 317 00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:53.759 Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts? 318 00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:57.080 Will come join me Alan fourrel Over in the Progress 319 00:16:57.080 --> 00:17:01.000 Paradise at phorch VIP as we ask on the bright 320 00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:03.720 side of wrestling and focus on some of the great 321 00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:07.839 matches and shows from around the world, be it the US, Japan, 322 00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:11.759 Europe or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestlings past 323 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:14.839 in the Paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows 324 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:18.160 such as the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious 325 00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:21.599 career of Jusian Thunderliger and our eye was there when 326 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:24.039 shows where our guests will join me to talk about 327 00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:27.079 a classic bout that they were in attendance for. We 328 00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:29.759 love variety and you can expect lots of it at 329 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:34.720 the Progress Paradise. Detailed pwof Torch VIP subscription information and 330 00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:37.599 a list of all the VIP benefits is available at 331 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:41.839 PWW Torch vip info dot com and yes, all VIP 332 00:17:42.039 --> 00:17:45.839 podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on iPhone and 333 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:49.119 Android devices, or you can stream them directly from our 334 00:17:49.160 --> 00:18:00.880 ad free VIP mobile site. See you in the Paradise, Eric, 335 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:01.880 What struck you? 336 00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:06.720 What has struck you about aw compared to wrestling that 337 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:09.079 you attended in the eighties and wrestling that you attended 338 00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:11.640 during the Attitude era? Does it seem like a revival 339 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:14.920 of some of that or different in some notable ways? 340 00:18:17.319 --> 00:18:20.920 I mean, there were packed houses during the Attitude era, 341 00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:23.799 and there were pack houses for a lot of the eighties. 342 00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:27.519 Probably the biggest, the loudest I've ever heard a building 343 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:31.240 was for a Hogan Orndorff cage match. I think it 344 00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:34.400 was the ugly big blue cage where you know orangeor 345 00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:36.720 is almost over the cage and Hogan's trying to pick 346 00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:38.440 him and the hair on the back of my neck 347 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:40.480 as a teenager was standing up. That strikes me as 348 00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:44.440 the loudest I've ever heard. The second loudest I've ever 349 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:48.319 heard a building was Nick Aldest and Cody Rhodes at 350 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:53.640 all in, Joel, what was your was your experience that 351 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:55.599 that was the loudest match at all in I mean, 352 00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:56.960 I just I have a vivid memory of just the 353 00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:02.079 level of heat. Molten gets thrown around a lot these 354 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:04.799 days as the hip word to use about when describing crowd. 355 00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:07.519 He but man, that actually that actually lived up to it. 356 00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:11.519 The fans are a lot more into it than they 357 00:19:11.519 --> 00:19:14.839 were in the eighties when you know you're going to 358 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:20.400 WWE and the action is mostly terrible. They're a lot smarter. 359 00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:24.119 They seem to be more you know, the difference between 360 00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:26.440 now and the eighties is we had to subscribe to 361 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:29.000 Wade Kellish Pro Wrestling Torch that was just starting out 362 00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:30.799 back then to find out what was going on behind 363 00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:33.960 the scenes, and today it's all over the internet everywhere. 364 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:36.240 So fans are better educated, I would say, than they 365 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:39.440 were in the eighties and even the nineties when the 366 00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:42.119 Internet was just sort of getting started during the Attitude era. 367 00:19:43.319 --> 00:19:45.400 Yeah, I'm going to add on to that too, Eric. 368 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:47.920 That another thing that I noticed, especially going to these 369 00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:50.759 aw shows, and I can't speak for Dynamite. I haven't 370 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:54.119 been to these some of these smaller market shows, but 371 00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:56.599 there's a lot. First of all, there's a lot more 372 00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:59.880 women at these shows, a tons more of guys who 373 00:19:59.880 --> 00:20:02.359 are taking their girlfriends or people taking their wives and 374 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:04.960 even taking their kids to these shows. And when you 375 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:09.519 go to a WWE show. I'm speaking particularly about the 376 00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:10.759 TLC pay per view. 377 00:20:10.599 --> 00:20:13.240 That was in Minneapolis last December. 378 00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:15.160 Where most of them are just kind of, you know, 379 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:18.960 the last remaining people who are still watching the watching WWE. 380 00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:21.279 It's not people bringing families. It was just kind of 381 00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:23.480 people who are like, yeah, wrestling's in town, it's the 382 00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:25.880 pay per view, so I'm going to go to the show. 383 00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:28.960 Whereas here it's kind of more of an event. It's 384 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:30.960 like it's okay to take the kids, It's okay to 385 00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:33.799 take my girlfriend. I'm not afraid of you know, something 386 00:20:33.799 --> 00:20:38.319 that's going to be totally embarrassing where we're like I 387 00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:40.359 took for this was the first AEW event that I 388 00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:42.960 took my girlfriend to, and you know, she had a 389 00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:46.000 blast obviously sit in ringside, how could you not, but 390 00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:48.599 the same thing too where she was able to understand 391 00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:49.640 a lot of the characters. 392 00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:50.759 She just had a good time. 393 00:20:50.839 --> 00:20:54.039 There was nothing that was, you know, insulting your intelligence. 394 00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:55.720 There was some things that you know, are just kind 395 00:20:55.759 --> 00:20:57.880 of weird. I mean, like the whole Dustin Rhodes thing 396 00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:02.400 where He's kissing Jake's wife was kind of weird. But 397 00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:06.200 you know, for the most part there there's nothing that's 398 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:10.039 you know, that's totally embarrassing, UH that that you're gonna 399 00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:10.720 experience there. 400 00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:17.240 So Travis saving the UH the one that I might 401 00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:19.920 be most curious about for last No Offense. Joel and Eric, 402 00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:25.920 your your impression of ae W as an event, because 403 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:28.319 you're not watching the TV show every week, but you are, 404 00:21:28.599 --> 00:21:31.200 so you're kind of walking in not as an avid 405 00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:36.160 UH one over fan, but actually almost an outsider, you know, 406 00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:38.880 stepping into not as a wrestling fan, but an outside 407 00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:40.279 because you're not just sold on this product. 408 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:41.599 You're not sold on certain wrestlers. 409 00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:43.799 You're not even there for like specific matches that you 410 00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:45.160 have been invested in emotionally. 411 00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:47.880 Talk about what feels different. 412 00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:51.559 About AW compared to all the other live events that 413 00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:53.880 you've got to over the years, whether it's you know, 414 00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:56.000 you and I went to w B Extreme Rules in 415 00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:58.559 UH in Newark in New Jersey and there was that 416 00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:00.519 huge pop for seth Rawlins Make and It's come back 417 00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:01.440 at the end and all that. 418 00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:04.200 So just compare that a W vibe. 419 00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:07.640 Yeah, go ahead, I mean it was a big it 420 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:10.839 was the same as double or nothing in Vegas. 421 00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:13.000 It was a big time building. 422 00:22:13.240 --> 00:22:17.359 It's a you know, packed crowd. I mean every seat 423 00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:20.839 was was filled. I didn't see one empty seat and 424 00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:22.359 everybody was enthusiastic. 425 00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:30.079 So they were the audience involved involved for a w 426 00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:30.839 is big time. 427 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:34.359 They're set, they're the visuals, all the whole production is 428 00:22:35.319 --> 00:22:39.640 is big time. It's not WWE big time because that's 429 00:22:39.799 --> 00:22:44.319 just you know, tip of the top of the you know, 430 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:45.759 as far as it's hard to catch up to that 431 00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:49.279 putting on a road show for for for you know, 432 00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:52.319 fifty plus years, you kind of know what you're doing 433 00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:54.599 and you have the infrastructure and the budget and all that. 434 00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:58.440 But it was the booking. But that's another topic. 435 00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:01.799 But it was a big but it was a big 436 00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:04.400 time set, big time feel. They had their gimmick with 437 00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:07.319 the with the risk wrist bands. 438 00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:07.839 That that lit up. 439 00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:12.559 That was I said, so they're gonna I when before 440 00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:15.759 Justin Roberts announced that, I was like, they're just gonna 441 00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:18.000 use us as props. This is a way to make 442 00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:21.119 people raise their hands and like woop, woop woop, you know, 443 00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:23.720 do things. And I was like, what a great idea, 444 00:23:23.799 --> 00:23:28.720 what a fantastic thing I had the show. Wristbands are 445 00:23:28.759 --> 00:23:31.319 not people were been going nuts, but it just gives 446 00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:35.440 an extra incentive to you know, to make yourself seen 447 00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:41.000 or whatever. But I would disagree a little bit with 448 00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:44.559 like one of the things that struck me was that 449 00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:48.359 there weren't as many kids. 450 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:48.920 Right. 451 00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:54.799 There were a few in my section older like twelve 452 00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:57.680 and thirteen, and then I saw like a few like 453 00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:01.519 eight year old, you know looking kid. It's but not 454 00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:04.720 as many as a WW show. I didn't expect there 455 00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:12.119 to be that kind of family ro vibe. It was friendly, 456 00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:16.200 it wasn't off putting in any way, but there just 457 00:24:16.359 --> 00:24:19.400 wasn't a ton of a ton of kids and not 458 00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:20.640 as many women. 459 00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:22.599 I think either, I don't. 460 00:24:23.559 --> 00:24:25.839 I haven't been to a WW show probably since that 461 00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:31.119 twenty sixteen Extreme Rules show with You Wade, but for 462 00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:35.039 two decades leading up to that, I was pretty much 463 00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:38.960 sure a regular all over Philadelphia. When they care in Philly, 464 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:40.720 when they came every year or you know, a couple 465 00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:41.599 times a year. 466 00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:44.039 It's a big time. 467 00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:45.839 I don't want to I don't want to sound like 468 00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:52.160 I'm being negative, because I'm not. It's just felt it 469 00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:56.119 just wasn't as a family thing, and ww goes out 470 00:24:56.119 --> 00:25:00.680 of their way to a detriment sort of to the 471 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:05.119 family fund entertainment and bring everybody no matter even And 472 00:25:05.319 --> 00:25:09.160 yes I'm babbling, but big time go ahead. 473 00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:10.559 Yeah what No, that's okay? 474 00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:12.880 What what what jumps out about a w Do you 475 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:16.559 that that that I should say jumps out? Does it 476 00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:21.480 seem like it's a positive or negative spin on the 477 00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:24.400 vibe of the fans and their attitude towards the product 478 00:25:24.440 --> 00:25:29.359 compared to WWE? Do you because and you, like I say, 479 00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:31.640 of this outsider perspective, do you kind of it's almost 480 00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:33.400 like you're kind of you're part of the show and 481 00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:36.720 you're you know, you're hopefully enjoying itside. But yeah, there's 482 00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:38.400 a little bit of you kind of sitting in the 483 00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:42.759 in the balcony just observing the dispassionately as a as 484 00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:45.119 an outsider a little bit. What strikes you about the 485 00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:47.240 fans positive or negative? Are you rolling your eyes at 486 00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:48.240 them being lap dogs? 487 00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:53.839 Or are just they just they're very enthusiastic, overly enthusiastic, 488 00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:58.640 Like I don't understand, Wow, you as a wrestling fan 489 00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:02.480 that takes that once a product that's serious, that wants 490 00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:03.720 not to be embarrassed. 491 00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:05.559 But let me tell you. 492 00:26:05.599 --> 00:26:08.400 When I was in it at double or nothing, I 493 00:26:08.440 --> 00:26:10.759 saw I look that it was a Battle Royal. Because 494 00:26:10.759 --> 00:26:13.039 I didn't know anybody, I turned to the guy or 495 00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:15.839 in the ring or in my surroundings, I think, But anyway, 496 00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:18.160 I asked the guy next to me, I said, why 497 00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:20.720 is there a little kid in the wing? 498 00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:21.000 Like? 499 00:26:21.319 --> 00:26:23.240 Is this like some kind of like Because he wasn't 500 00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:25.319 taking a bunch of bumps getting bumped. I was like, Oh, 501 00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:27.599 is this somebody's like cousin that they're doing in this 502 00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:28.680 wacky Battle Royal? 503 00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:31.359 And it turns out to be that was Marco Stunt. 504 00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:34.279 And then he's featured on TV and he's not a 505 00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:38.039 serious wrestler, because how can you take a guy that 506 00:26:38.119 --> 00:26:41.599 I thought was a kid from one hundred yards away serious? 507 00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:44.759 Like he shouldn't be on anybody's national TV. But there 508 00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:45.200 he is. 509 00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:48.759 I don't care how over he is, but it's it's 510 00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:53.319 hard to take get past that. And Joey Janella a 511 00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:55.599 guy like that, and Rich and we had these arguments 512 00:26:55.640 --> 00:26:59.240 on VIP and you know how hard working a guy 513 00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:01.640 is and this that and the other and I and 514 00:27:01.720 --> 00:27:05.160 it works and I have to give him all all 515 00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:09.400 all involved, the talent and the company. But then I'll 516 00:27:09.400 --> 00:27:11.960 turn around and absolutely love Orange Cassidy like I have 517 00:27:12.039 --> 00:27:15.880 no real consistency and what it's what you like, it's 518 00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:16.920 it's and what you don't. 519 00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:19.000 And sometimes certain things can be done well and certain 520 00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:21.559 things can be done poorly. There's some Orange things. 521 00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:22.480 There's a welleway. 522 00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:25.720 There's a good way to present a four to eight 523 00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:28.480 guy that's, you know, one hundred and two pounds in 524 00:27:28.519 --> 00:27:30.279 there bumping around. 525 00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:30.920 Your world champion. 526 00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:35.359 It's absurd and it makes me I like Darby Allen 527 00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:37.720 when he was going at Jericho with his arms tied 528 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:40.599 behind his back, Like why is Jericho's just punch him 529 00:27:40.599 --> 00:27:43.359 in a face and pend on one, two, three going on. 530 00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:44.480 It's that time. 531 00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:46.559 But Travis, I watched it. 532 00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:50.599 So so forgiving or I don't want to say forgiving 533 00:27:50.599 --> 00:27:51.960 because that's yeah. 534 00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:55.799 But the the goodwill is there, It's very much there, Travis. 535 00:27:55.839 --> 00:27:58.480 I watched Faulk Cogan and Gene Okerland team together once 536 00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:01.960 against mister Fuji George the Animal Steel, and and it 537 00:28:02.039 --> 00:28:04.759 was it's and again, yes, I'm comparing gen Oaker, Linda 538 00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:06.960 Marco Stutt, but there's a way that you can do 539 00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:10.599 a mismatch type situation where the opportunistic take comes in. 540 00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:14.799 Gene punches Georgia Animal Steel, the crowd goes completely crazy 541 00:28:15.319 --> 00:28:18.160 and and then he takes out quickly, And it's you 542 00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:20.079 have to figure that out with Marco to make sure 543 00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:22.519 that somebody like you, the type of fan that that 544 00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:25.119 really they're trying to win over somebody who isn't just 545 00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:28.240 already just sold on it and gonna be forgiving, and 546 00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:31.839 watch that they that they make sure that their booking 547 00:28:32.119 --> 00:28:34.480 makes as much sense as possible. And I think there's 548 00:28:34.519 --> 00:28:37.079 been sometimes Marco's been used well and sometimes not in 549 00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:38.799 that In that perspective. 550 00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:40.039 He's just an easy target for me. 551 00:28:40.759 --> 00:28:41.880 Yeah, totally. 552 00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:43.720 Yeah. 553 00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:46.400 You can support us on Patreon and get these shows 554 00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:49.440 with ads and plugs removed the way Keller Prossing podcast, Weight, 555 00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:52.359 Keller Prossing post shows and the PW Torch Daily cast 556 00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:55.279 throughout the week with ads and plugs remove, plus a 557 00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:58.920 few bonus VIP shows throughout the month for just four 558 00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:01.680 dollars and ninety nine cents. Check it out patreon dot 559 00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:06.839 com slash PW Torch vip. That's patreon dot com slash 560 00:29:06.839 --> 00:29:09.440 PW Torch vip and you can also upgrade to other 561 00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:14.799 tiers and receive even more benefits through Patreon. Joel, is 562 00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:16.240 there anything you want to bring up on your own, 563 00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:17.359 because I don't want to just be the only one 564 00:29:17.400 --> 00:29:18.920 bringing up topics here as we kind of talk about 565 00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:22.319 the the live experience and in particular, but not exclusively, 566 00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:23.000 Saturday Night. 567 00:29:23.559 --> 00:29:26.720 Yeah, I mean, I guess, just adding on to that conversation, 568 00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:28.640 I mean, I guess I probably had a perception of 569 00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:31.400 more kids there because I was in next to Jurassic Express, 570 00:29:31.720 --> 00:29:34.119 who were a complete hit with all the kids. I mean, 571 00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:35.880 there was a lot of kids who wanted to come 572 00:29:35.960 --> 00:29:37.680 up to them. I mean, there was tons of kids 573 00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:40.519 in the section by the ramp, and one of in 574 00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:43.319 particular was wearing a Lucasaurus mask and so they got their. 575 00:29:43.240 --> 00:29:44.559 Picture with Jurassic Express. 576 00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:47.880 Otherwise, other kids were just thrilled to walk just walk 577 00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:50.519 by that section and see and see Marco Stunt and 578 00:29:50.599 --> 00:29:51.160 Jungle Boy. 579 00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:54.480 So yeah, I thought that those people were hit with 580 00:29:54.519 --> 00:29:54.920 the kids. 581 00:29:54.920 --> 00:29:57.359 I don't know if there were just they were, you know, 582 00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:00.519 just kind of in one area or whatever, But yeah, 583 00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:02.039 that that was just my person I think. 584 00:30:02.119 --> 00:30:05.759 I think at w W shows, it's just annoying and like, 585 00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:06.440 where why. 586 00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:07.400 Are these kids here? 587 00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:10.359 Like I just want to watch them wrestling with grown 588 00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:12.640 ups and watch grown up product And it's just like 589 00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:13.960 it's hard to do. 590 00:30:14.440 --> 00:30:17.839 Or it's hard to uh have that perspective. 591 00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:19.559 When you look around and be like, I'm enjoying the 592 00:30:19.599 --> 00:30:22.359 same thing I don't on different levels. 593 00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:24.440 But is this you know, eight year old next to me? 594 00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:27.480 Granted, where we like different things and stuff and I 595 00:30:27.640 --> 00:30:30.599 read Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur. I can't talk about 596 00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:35.279 liking things that kids like. But but it is just 597 00:30:35.319 --> 00:30:37.599 a little, it's a little it's it's annoying at w 598 00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:41.079 W con shows as as how many at how many 599 00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:44.720 kids and families? Not really annoying, but just but I 600 00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:48.160 think that's what it is. Get not Yeah, I just 601 00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:50.640 feel I do feel like an old man sometimes. 602 00:30:50.960 --> 00:30:53.400 But I don't think it wasn't that there weren't any kids. 603 00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:55.720 It's just w W just has packed. 604 00:30:55.920 --> 00:31:00.519 They count on, uh families bringing don't go to a 605 00:31:00.519 --> 00:31:00.960 house show. 606 00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:03.880 It's like where are your powers? They are just kids here. 607 00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:05.119 It's no girl. 608 00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:07.920 Lips but yeah, yeah, and then when you go to 609 00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:10.359 the WWE shows, I mean so much of it is 610 00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:14.640 aimed at the kids, just whereas as an adult it's like, man, 611 00:31:14.680 --> 00:31:17.039 that this stuff is just not for me. Whereas when 612 00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:19.880 you go to the aw show, it's aimed at adults, 613 00:31:20.039 --> 00:31:22.319 but then the kids come along because it's the cool 614 00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:23.440 thing to watch. 615 00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:24.359 Uh Joe. 616 00:31:24.440 --> 00:31:26.119 Actually, so we don't forget talk about what it was 617 00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:28.799 like sitting extra Jurassic Express, just like talk about the 618 00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:30.640 context of when they arrived, how long they were there. 619 00:31:31.319 --> 00:31:32.880 I know you mentioned to me they like never talked 620 00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:33.359 to each other. 621 00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:35.880 Yeah, so that that was kind of weird. 622 00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:39.799 So they came out before the Darby Allen Sammy Guvara match. 623 00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:41.960 That was after they I believe they had some promo 624 00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:44.039 on the big screen that's saying they were going to 625 00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:47.200 watch that match closely. And then they came out and 626 00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:50.319 people were all excited around us, and Marco Stunt just 627 00:31:50.319 --> 00:31:52.799 looked thrilled. He was thrilled to be a ringside and 628 00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:55.559 he was taking pictures of the ring, he was taking. 629 00:31:55.319 --> 00:31:58.759 Pictures with fans. But then they were just kind of 630 00:31:58.799 --> 00:31:59.480 sitting there. 631 00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:03.119 For God, I'm trying to think at least through the 632 00:32:03.200 --> 00:32:06.920 Nila Rose and christat Lander match, because Marco caught the 633 00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:10.000 mask from Nyla Rose. But they were just kind of 634 00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:14.160 sitting there and they weren't super engaged with the rest 635 00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:16.400 of the show, and they just kind of looked confused 636 00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:19.000 as to why they were there, and they didn't talk 637 00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:21.960 to each other really. It seemed like they just wasn't 638 00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:24.519 communicated to them that like, hey guys, it's time to 639 00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:28.039 come back, go to the backstage area. So it was 640 00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:30.160 just it was just kind of bizarre after a while 641 00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:33.960 because they were still there after that, after the Darby 642 00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:34.599 Allen match. 643 00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:38.039 That's that's weird that they're not like interacting or even 644 00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:41.319 putting on any kind of just like the optics the 645 00:32:41.400 --> 00:32:44.319 visual of getting along and reacting. 646 00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:46.920 To the to what was happening, Like what was the point? 647 00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:50.279 Yeah, I mean like when first when they came out, 648 00:32:50.559 --> 00:32:52.319 there was a bunch of kids who came up and 649 00:32:52.319 --> 00:32:54.359 they wanted to get pictures and all that stuff. But 650 00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:57.519 after a while, I mean, like not to pick too 651 00:32:57.559 --> 00:32:59.480 hard on him, but I mean like Jungle Boys just 652 00:32:59.559 --> 00:33:01.759 kind of like looking around and he's just kind of 653 00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:04.799 looking like why am I even here? And same with Lucasaurus, 654 00:33:04.839 --> 00:33:07.160 and Marco's just on his phone for a lot of 655 00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:09.880 the time too, and so it just kind of created 656 00:33:09.880 --> 00:33:12.480 this awkward thing because lots of people were walking by 657 00:33:12.680 --> 00:33:13.400 kind of like, oh my. 658 00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:14.759 Gosh, it's Jurassic Express. 659 00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:18.799 They're sitting in the crowd, but nothing was really happening 660 00:33:18.799 --> 00:33:20.839 with them, and it was clear that they weren't going 661 00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:25.799 to do anything with them after this Darby Allen match. Yeah, 662 00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:27.920 So they were just sitting there for a long time. 663 00:33:28.519 --> 00:33:30.119 And do you have any guess what the point I mean, 664 00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:31.960 they showed him on camera, I think just once like, 665 00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:35.279 do you have any idea what like if there was 666 00:33:35.319 --> 00:33:37.759 a larger purpose that they didn't fulfill or are you 667 00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:38.839 just sort of perplexed? 668 00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:42.920 I to be honest, I was perplexed because, you know, 669 00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:45.720 they One of the things I'm sitting so close to 670 00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:47.720 the ring is that there is so much going on 671 00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:50.839 around the show where you're hearing, you know, aw crew, 672 00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:54.039 their security, all sorts of people are talking and communicating 673 00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:57.400 about all the different moving parts, and that was one 674 00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:00.079 of the things where I just never saw, you know, 675 00:34:00.119 --> 00:34:03.359 anyone really communicating to them about what they were supposed 676 00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:06.599 to do. Whereas when Jake Hager's wife came out, you know, 677 00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:10.519 they had an aw you know, representative somebody with them 678 00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:12.360 who was kind of explaining to her like all right, 679 00:34:12.400 --> 00:34:14.880 so you're gonna stand here, you know, this is what's 680 00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:16.639 going to go on. And she seemed like she was 681 00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:19.280 pretty confident in, you know that she was going to 682 00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:22.440 play up kind of that that Heel character with Hager, 683 00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:23.920 that the whole point was to get. 684 00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:25.079 Booze and stuff like that. 685 00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:27.679 So most people who were there were kind of briefed 686 00:34:28.119 --> 00:34:30.599 if they were sitting in that area. But yeah, I 687 00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:33.320 mean they just kind of came out there and they 688 00:34:33.400 --> 00:34:35.280 got they pulled up their seats there and they were 689 00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:37.519 just sitting there for a while and nothing happened, and 690 00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:38.960 then all of a sudden they just left. 691 00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:42.519 Yeah, they were, they were they were like running lines basically, 692 00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:46.119 like after the crowd had started coming in. What do 693 00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:48.519 you mean, Like they're going through like you're going to 694 00:34:48.599 --> 00:34:50.280 do this, so he's going to kiss you and blah 695 00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:52.360 blah blah and like fans that people are there. 696 00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:56.079 Oh, so like they were. Yeah. 697 00:34:56.079 --> 00:34:59.079 So they just had one aw official who was talking 698 00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:01.599 to Hey, your's wife and he was just saying like, 699 00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:03.840 all right, so you're gonna be here in this area 700 00:35:04.719 --> 00:35:07.239 and then and then he's gonna come out, and they 701 00:35:07.239 --> 00:35:09.599 didn't like say like oh and then the whole kissing 702 00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:11.599 spot and all just direct. 703 00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:17.800 I mean to specific, but they're they're man means okay, 704 00:35:18.199 --> 00:35:21.880 that's yeah. That bothers me. Maybe I should yeah. 705 00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:26.320 Well, And then there was another part too, where Cody there. 706 00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:31.880 I'm sorry, yeah, to add to that too, Travis. At 707 00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:34.480 one point, I don't know if they showed Cody's mom 708 00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:37.000 too much on the screen, but she she also came 709 00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:38.639 up like right next to me and was asking the 710 00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:40.360 security guard like where am I supposed to go? 711 00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:40.679 Again? 712 00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:42.719 He's like, all right, so you're supposed to go there. 713 00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:46.639 The seat's not ready yet, but just just wait, wait 714 00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:48.480 a few minutes here and then you can go over 715 00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:50.719 there in that section. So that was the only other 716 00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:54.320 kind of direction that I saw with the a W staff. 717 00:35:54.440 --> 00:35:56.840 You got a produce the show, right, you're producing a 718 00:35:56.880 --> 00:35:58.639 live wrestling show that I think that kind of stuff 719 00:35:58.679 --> 00:35:59.239 is going to happen. 720 00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:01.960 Yeah, right, absolutely did did. 721 00:36:02.119 --> 00:36:05.239 Was how long was Hagar's j Hager's girlfriend there or 722 00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:06.320 what was a wife or girlfriend? 723 00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:07.440 I should don't even know. 724 00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:10.880 I believe it's his wife. Yeah, and she just came out. 725 00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:14.239 It was just right before the the right before h 726 00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:16.000 the What am I trying to say? 727 00:36:16.039 --> 00:36:16.760 The whole, like. 728 00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:20.159 The entrance not entrance video, the promo to start the 729 00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:20.719 pay per view. 730 00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:22.360 I guess that the video package. 731 00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:24.000 Oh so she came out. 732 00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:27.119 Yeah, so the for the opening of the show, So 733 00:36:27.159 --> 00:36:27.639 she came. 734 00:36:27.519 --> 00:36:29.440 Out right before then. And then yeah, it was just 735 00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:32.079 a staff members like all right, here's the seat right here. 736 00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:35.480 So then he's he's gonna come out and just kind 737 00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:38.079 of gave the run through there and then I believe 738 00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:42.039 she exited with him, So he she hopped over the 739 00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:44.320 barricade and just exited with Yeah, that makes sense. 740 00:36:48.639 --> 00:36:52.800 In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and 741 00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:56.239 ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP 742 00:36:56.480 --> 00:37:00.559 podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly 743 00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:03.079 look at this page in NXT's early history. 744 00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:07.199 Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks 745 00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:10.000 NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to 746 00:37:10.039 --> 00:37:12.760 the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they 747 00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:16.719 did or didn't work out, exclusively for PW Torch VIP members. 748 00:37:19.880 --> 00:37:23.920 So Eric, let's uh, let's pivot to in overall. 749 00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:26.639 If you had anything like that, you would drop in 750 00:37:26.679 --> 00:37:31.079 the suggestion box for aew overall as as an engaged 751 00:37:31.239 --> 00:37:34.119 fan that you are of that product. 752 00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:36.159 Is there anything about the lead up to. 753 00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:41.119 The show, get before the show starts, as the show progresses, 754 00:37:41.199 --> 00:37:43.840 is there anything from you know, decades of go into 755 00:37:43.880 --> 00:37:45.880 different wrestling promoter shows that jumped out to you as 756 00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:49.039 needing perhaps needing some work or improvement. And then also, 757 00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:50.920 is there anything that just jumped out as like this 758 00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:52.880 is I didn't seen this before? Or this this that 759 00:37:52.920 --> 00:37:53.960 worked really well. 760 00:37:55.320 --> 00:37:57.280 Well? The I mean, the TIV leading up to this 761 00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:00.320 pay per view since January first was some of the best, 762 00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:03.400 one of the best two month runs of American TV 763 00:38:03.559 --> 00:38:05.360 since the heyday of the Monday Night Wars. 764 00:38:05.400 --> 00:38:09.599 I would think you missed the Heiden right era obviously. 765 00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:12.800 Yes, I miss I had a fifteen year yap from 766 00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:15.400 what I remember, right, so, they you know that December 767 00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:18.239 eighteenth show that turned Travis off. It turned off a 768 00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:23.599 lot of people when the creepyzoids from the Dark Order 769 00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:26.639 were killing all the elite members, right, you're killing off 770 00:38:26.679 --> 00:38:30.880 all your baby faces. It was reminiscent of the nWo 771 00:38:31.639 --> 00:38:36.199 and and so they reset came Balls of Fire from 772 00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:39.119 January first through now so did a good job with 773 00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:42.159 that as the cart itself. I thought, I mean, the 774 00:38:42.199 --> 00:38:44.639 crowd heat was nowhere near the level of all in 775 00:38:44.760 --> 00:38:49.039 or all out. I didn't think building. Yeah, it's a 776 00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:51.800 different building. There might be different acoustics. I don't know. 777 00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:55.199 But maybe it was a flying crowd who's naturally going 778 00:38:55.239 --> 00:38:57.480 to be more enthusiastic at all in and all out. 779 00:38:57.599 --> 00:38:59.840 Then they're gonna be enthusiastic one hundred percent of the 780 00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:02.480 time because they paid good money to fly and all that. 781 00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:05.280 I don't know, but part of it was the pacing 782 00:39:05.320 --> 00:39:08.280 issues of how the order of the matches were put together. 783 00:39:08.440 --> 00:39:11.599 So they should have flipped the first two matches because 784 00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:16.719 the Darby Allen Sami match was short, but it was 785 00:39:16.760 --> 00:39:19.719 the hot match that you would traditionally start a pay 786 00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:22.840 per view card with, and instead they started with these 787 00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:25.719 two big guys who kind of lumbered around the ring 788 00:39:25.840 --> 00:39:27.639 and the kind of what I would view as a 789 00:39:27.639 --> 00:39:31.400 two star match. It wasn't terrible, but it wasn't light 790 00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:34.599 in the world on fire. And then obviously the third 791 00:39:34.599 --> 00:39:36.920 match was the tag team match, and that was the 792 00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:38.880 high point in the evening as far as crowd heat. 793 00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:42.800 The crowd was super into that, and then the crowd 794 00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:45.239 kind of died for a long while after that and 795 00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:49.719 not died like Monday Night Raw crowd died last night, 796 00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:52.840 but you know, it had a hard time getting back 797 00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:57.760 up to that level Cody. As a result, Cody's match 798 00:39:58.119 --> 00:40:00.719 didn't have as much heat as I thought it would. 799 00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:08.440 The crowd Orange Cassidy Park had way more heat in 800 00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:11.280 the building, I thought, than than the Cody match, or 801 00:40:11.320 --> 00:40:14.280 slightly more maybe, and then you know, the main event 802 00:40:14.360 --> 00:40:18.079 at a good level of heat, especially with the unexpected 803 00:40:18.119 --> 00:40:22.159 title change there, it probably could have had a I 804 00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:24.400 don't know where you stick that tag title match, right, 805 00:40:24.760 --> 00:40:26.880 it was always going to be the kind of match 806 00:40:26.960 --> 00:40:30.519 if it lived up to expectations, that was going to 807 00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:33.280 burn out the crowd for a few matches. And I 808 00:40:33.320 --> 00:40:37.159 assumed Cody and Jericho both wanted that match as far 809 00:40:37.239 --> 00:40:40.519 the hell away from their bouts as they could, because 810 00:40:40.519 --> 00:40:43.840 if that was the if that was the semi main, 811 00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:46.719 or if it was third from the top, you know that, 812 00:40:46.960 --> 00:40:49.239 then then they really would have had problems. I mean, 813 00:40:49.239 --> 00:40:52.519 I guess they tried to. They they put it as 814 00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:54.440 far away as they could, but it had it. It 815 00:40:54.480 --> 00:40:57.880 had an impact, and the crowd probably was was noticeably 816 00:40:58.440 --> 00:41:00.760 on TV. I would think because happened. I mean, you're 817 00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:05.440 really not as loud as a typical aw sometimes Dynamite 818 00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:08.119 and certainly the pay per view shows, So I would 819 00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:10.760 have I don't know what the solution is, right, It's 820 00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:13.800 easy to pick out a problem. Do you make the 821 00:41:14.360 --> 00:41:17.239 you know, you put the tag title match later in 822 00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:18.800 the show. I don't know, what do you guys think? 823 00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:22.480 Well, I I was very very surprised at the lack 824 00:41:22.519 --> 00:41:23.679 of heat for MJF. 825 00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:26.280 I mean, it was shocking how there. 826 00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:28.559 Was little as many little booze as there was for 827 00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:30.880 MJF when he came out there. But yeah, the crowd 828 00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:33.800 just died after that tag match. 829 00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:34.760 I mean that was it was. 830 00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:38.760 It was a long, amazing match, but you know, going 831 00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:41.519 they had that, the women's match had the unfortunate spot 832 00:41:41.639 --> 00:41:44.360 of trying to follow that, and you know, there's a 833 00:41:44.360 --> 00:41:47.000 lot of people who got up, they chose that match 834 00:41:47.039 --> 00:41:49.159 in the long show to get up and go to 835 00:41:49.159 --> 00:41:51.320 the bathroom or do whatever else they needed to do. 836 00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:54.280 And then it kind of seems like as that coding 837 00:41:54.360 --> 00:41:56.880 match was just starting, was when people were just settling 838 00:41:56.920 --> 00:41:59.199 in there, and I just think that that really hurt 839 00:41:59.239 --> 00:42:03.639 it from the in arena perspective because the other matches 840 00:42:03.639 --> 00:42:06.079 that Cody's had live, I mean that gets some of 841 00:42:06.199 --> 00:42:10.320 the best crowd reactions. And so it just started off 842 00:42:10.360 --> 00:42:14.000 bad with the MJF where it didn't hardly get nearly 843 00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:16.159 as many booze as I thought it would be. And 844 00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:18.960 then you know, people are always excited to sing along 845 00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:22.199 with Cody's song, and then it had that live performance 846 00:42:22.239 --> 00:42:24.920 from downstate and I don't know what you guys thought, 847 00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:27.360 but I did not think that I was good at all. 848 00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:30.199 I meant the vocals were wretchet. 849 00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:33.119 Yeah, the vocals it was. It was bad karaoke and. 850 00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:35.800 You couldn't I was. I was sitting on the floor, 851 00:42:35.800 --> 00:42:39.719 but in the side opposite the ramp, and you couldn't 852 00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:41.760 make it out on our side of the arena. And 853 00:42:41.800 --> 00:42:43.400 I'm told that people in the upper deck had a 854 00:42:43.480 --> 00:42:46.559 hard tang hearing any of the ring announcements or anything. 855 00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:49.320 So I don't know if it was just poorly miked 856 00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:51.679 for inside the building or what, but yeah, that was 857 00:42:51.719 --> 00:42:52.320 a problem. 858 00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:55.960 Yeah, and so that just that took away from people's excitement. 859 00:42:55.519 --> 00:42:57.360 For that match, because that that's a highlight of the show. 860 00:42:57.400 --> 00:43:00.280 People love singing along to that, and a lot of 861 00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:03.760 the chatter around me was you know that that Cody tattoo. 862 00:43:03.320 --> 00:43:03.920 On his neck. 863 00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:06.920 I mean people were focused on that thing and being like, 864 00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:10.840 what is that? And of course it's the Nightmare logo, 865 00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:13.760 but man, it just kind of felt like all these 866 00:43:13.800 --> 00:43:16.159 other things were just going on to distract people from 867 00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:18.280 the beginning of it. But I feel like they got 868 00:43:18.280 --> 00:43:20.800 people back towards the end, but it just had a 869 00:43:20.920 --> 00:43:21.960 rough start. 870 00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:25.679 I had high expectations for that Cody match. The feud 871 00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:28.639 was pretty well done and it was a great story 872 00:43:28.679 --> 00:43:31.840 Cody going through all the obstacles, taking the whipping on 873 00:43:32.199 --> 00:43:36.559 TV and the year twenty twenty somehow, and that, you know, 874 00:43:36.679 --> 00:43:38.519 I had the match at three stars. I just maybe 875 00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:41.760 it came across better on TV, but it was just 876 00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:45.360 it was the It could also suffered from my high expectations, right. 877 00:43:45.400 --> 00:43:48.760 I was hoping for something in the four stars plus area, 878 00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:50.119 and they never really hit that gear. 879 00:43:50.719 --> 00:43:57.039 So anytime you're watching ww E Raw or SmackDown, or 880 00:43:57.079 --> 00:44:00.159 AEW Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've 881 00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:01.960 got thoughts on the show or a topic you want 882 00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:04.800 us to address or a question for us. Wade Keller 883 00:44:04.920 --> 00:44:10.159 podcast at PW torch dot com, Wadekeller podcast at petwtorch 884 00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:12.280 dot com. If there's anything else going on in pro 885 00:44:12.320 --> 00:44:14.320 wrestling that you want us to address on our main 886 00:44:14.360 --> 00:44:18.039 podcast during our mailbank segments, that same email applies Wade 887 00:44:18.079 --> 00:44:21.679 Keller podcast at PW torch dot com. We invite that interaction. 888 00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:23.800 Let us know what you think of what we're saying, 889 00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:26.000 and let us know what you want us to talk 890 00:44:26.039 --> 00:44:29.440 about and ask us specific questions. Wade Keller podcast at 891 00:44:29.480 --> 00:44:34.920 PW torch dot com. I wonder if Cody triumphing over 892 00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:38.119 wardlow in a cage with that huge spot and then 893 00:44:38.280 --> 00:44:41.079 the show ending with him, you know, sitting on you know, 894 00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:42.960 the last scene is him sitting on top of the 895 00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:46.280 cage celebrating, if it just felt like MGF was like 896 00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:49.079 it's out of order, Like that felt such like such 897 00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:51.599 a big moment and so triumphant, and it's a cage 898 00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:53.559 and now it's just like, oh it's MGF. It feels 899 00:44:53.559 --> 00:44:55.559 almost like I wonder if that it almost felt like 900 00:44:55.559 --> 00:44:58.599 he had accomplished a mission and this didn't count as 901 00:44:58.880 --> 00:45:01.559 much because so much of the the excitement and payoff 902 00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:05.199 had already taken place. Is that a possibility Joel in air. Yeah, 903 00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:08.719 I'm blamed for that. I threw to two people at once. 904 00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:10.920 Of course, you guys will talk. Go ahead, Eric, Yeah, 905 00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:11.599 I think. 906 00:45:13.239 --> 00:45:15.480 I think it's I think it was all it was, 907 00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:17.800 if you might be honest something there. It was about 908 00:45:17.840 --> 00:45:20.239 the journey, and then when he finally got to the destination, 909 00:45:21.960 --> 00:45:24.880 it fell a little flat. How much of it was that? 910 00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:26.639 How much of it was the tag title match? The 911 00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:31.239 crowd still was was sort of spent from How much 912 00:45:31.280 --> 00:45:34.880 of it the fact that you know, neither MJF is 913 00:45:34.920 --> 00:45:37.000 I wouldn't call him green, but he's not like a 914 00:45:37.079 --> 00:45:40.559 ten fifteen year ring veteran. How much of it was 915 00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:42.599 the finish. I don't have a problem with the finish 916 00:45:42.679 --> 00:45:45.039 if they're going to keep this feud going on, I mean, 917 00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:50.719 the satisfaction, the traditional storytelling. Would you know, it's fine, 918 00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:52.880 In fact, you want the heel to win the first 919 00:45:52.960 --> 00:45:55.559 match so that you you know, you build for the rematch. 920 00:45:55.639 --> 00:45:59.199 And if this was a one off, if they're one 921 00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:01.280 and done, which would be really stupid because they have 922 00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:03.320 so many hours of TV to fill, and they've got 923 00:46:03.400 --> 00:46:05.480 pay per view slots to fill, and you could do 924 00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:07.920 all sorts of gimmick matches. If it came to it, 925 00:46:08.119 --> 00:46:12.119 then that was not super Then that's not super great. 926 00:46:12.159 --> 00:46:14.280 I mean, what you want at the end of all 927 00:46:14.360 --> 00:46:17.599 this is to see Cody beating MJF and getting his 928 00:46:17.719 --> 00:46:19.440 revenge for all the hell he put him through. 929 00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:22.239 Right, Yeah, yeah, go ahead, Joel. 930 00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:23.440 Yeah. 931 00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:25.840 And especially the ending of that match. 932 00:46:26.400 --> 00:46:28.480 Yeah, we had to watch the replay there to see 933 00:46:28.519 --> 00:46:31.079 that he took the ring because it just it came 934 00:46:31.119 --> 00:46:34.320 off weird in person, the way that ended, where Cody's 935 00:46:34.360 --> 00:46:35.960 just all of a sudden, he hits he hits all 936 00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:38.719 these crossroads and you're thinking, man, he's building up to 937 00:46:38.719 --> 00:46:40.639 the finish, and then just all of a sudden, MJF 938 00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:42.400 hits him in the head and that's done. 939 00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:45.239 And that just felt super weird to me. 940 00:46:45.400 --> 00:46:48.920 And also MJF getting busted open so early in the match. 941 00:46:48.960 --> 00:46:52.360 It's like, man, I could understand later on if Mjf's 942 00:46:52.400 --> 00:46:55.639 taking this huge beating from Cody, but that also just 943 00:46:55.639 --> 00:46:56.920 felt really out of place for me. 944 00:46:57.000 --> 00:47:01.480 How early he bladed himself. Yeah, that it was just weird. 945 00:47:02.320 --> 00:47:05.440 Travis, You're your thoughts on Cody jat too cute? 946 00:47:05.880 --> 00:47:06.000 Uh? 947 00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:07.639 The finish was. 948 00:47:09.639 --> 00:47:12.679 I didn't I don't know how it showed on TV. 949 00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:18.360 But I didn't notice the international object until he was 950 00:47:18.679 --> 00:47:22.440 like shoving it back in his tights, and I was like, 951 00:47:22.480 --> 00:47:23.280 what happened to me? 952 00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:25.480 I know that it was a boom boom boom. 953 00:47:25.320 --> 00:47:28.800 Kind of thing, but you know the how they're saying 954 00:47:28.840 --> 00:47:32.360 how Lawler could pull a ten chain out of his 955 00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:35.760 wrap it around his hand and punch a guy in 956 00:47:35.800 --> 00:47:38.239 the face, put it, sneak it back in his trunks 957 00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:40.920 and the crowd would go nuts, and he could literally 958 00:47:40.960 --> 00:47:43.320 pantomime the whole thing and not have a chain like 959 00:47:43.360 --> 00:47:47.119 there was no show of again, it was a it 960 00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:49.440 was a bang bang play, so to speak. So I 961 00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:53.440 guess maybe MJF didn't have a just didn't have the opportunity. 962 00:47:53.440 --> 00:47:56.199 But I think you book it differently to show that 963 00:47:56.320 --> 00:47:59.119 MJF get that crowd to go, you know, Oh no, 964 00:47:59.360 --> 00:48:01.960 because I didn't. I saw the punch, and then I 965 00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:03.400 saw him shoving something. I was like, wait, did he 966 00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:05.400 hit him with something? And then when he like does 967 00:48:05.400 --> 00:48:08.280 the corny like ooh, I'm so tired, I'm so beat 968 00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:10.599 down and falls on him, and I'm like, oh, he 969 00:48:10.840 --> 00:48:14.079 did hit him with something, and I'm not as tied 970 00:48:14.159 --> 00:48:17.000 end so I didn't the ring. 971 00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:18.559 I'm like, it didn't hit me like, oh, it was 972 00:48:18.559 --> 00:48:20.280 probably his diamond ring. 973 00:48:20.360 --> 00:48:22.800 That is that he wouldn't but it was just a 974 00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:26.719 little bit too cute at the end. If they would 975 00:48:26.719 --> 00:48:28.320 have did that a little differently, I think it comes 976 00:48:28.320 --> 00:48:29.079 off a little better. 977 00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:33.079 The match as a whole I thought was fine. 978 00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:35.280 I didn't think about it until you just bought it 979 00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:38.559 up about the cage match and Wardlow headed into that match, 980 00:48:38.800 --> 00:48:41.400 I said, this is I said, Wardlow has to show. 981 00:48:41.880 --> 00:48:43.880 I say, how's the guy get his first TV? 982 00:48:44.159 --> 00:48:46.800 How's his first match is the main event of a 983 00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:51.920 major show, major storyline arc, and it's in the cage. 984 00:48:52.280 --> 00:48:54.639 He's got to perform. And then he did, And I 985 00:48:54.639 --> 00:48:57.239 think that might have been the problem. That match probably 986 00:48:57.280 --> 00:49:01.920 should have been a six minute kind of just not dud, 987 00:49:02.159 --> 00:49:04.760 but not as great as it was. 988 00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:09.960 To lead in two weeks later it too a big match. 989 00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:16.199 Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me. 990 00:49:16.360 --> 00:49:19.920 Jason Powell host them the free weekly Pro Wrestling Boom podcast. 991 00:49:20.320 --> 00:49:22.480 Each week, he'll hear the latest news and analysis for 992 00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:24.679 me and my team at pro wrestling dot Net, along 993 00:49:24.719 --> 00:49:27.679 with other pro wrestling media members, plus the Pro Wrestling 994 00:49:27.719 --> 00:49:31.039 Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in 995 00:49:31.079 --> 00:49:34.760 the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and 996 00:49:34.840 --> 00:49:37.960 all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at 997 00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:44.920 PW boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com. 998 00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:48.679 Travis, I'm curious your thoughts on Cody, your impression of 999 00:49:48.760 --> 00:49:52.559 Cody as a as a top centerpiece star and attraction 1000 00:49:52.760 --> 00:49:54.599 for ae. 1001 00:49:54.199 --> 00:49:55.840 W, like does does your cause? 1002 00:49:55.840 --> 00:49:56.440 Again, you're not. 1003 00:49:56.400 --> 00:49:57.599 Watching his journey every week. 1004 00:49:57.639 --> 00:50:00.239 You're not, you know, like Eric watching being the an 1005 00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:03.320 AW dark and all in on the a W product 1006 00:50:03.719 --> 00:50:06.719 and along for the journey. You're more representative of somebody 1007 00:50:06.840 --> 00:50:09.440 that AW needs to win over to grow. When you 1008 00:50:09.519 --> 00:50:11.960 get dropped into the eight W world like you happen 1009 00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:14.559 a couple of times. What do you think of Cody 1010 00:50:14.559 --> 00:50:16.239 in this role? Do you buy it or do you 1011 00:50:16.280 --> 00:50:18.159 have skepticism? Do you look around going what do you 1012 00:50:18.199 --> 00:50:20.400 guys see? Or do you feel there's some magic here? 1013 00:50:21.480 --> 00:50:25.800 I buy it? In until he wrestles. 1014 00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:32.239 Yeah, him in the suit, cutting promos and being passionate, 1015 00:50:32.440 --> 00:50:35.719 and it'd be nice if you didn't cut you know. 1016 00:50:36.440 --> 00:50:39.519 I'm you know, thanks for coming to the show. All 1017 00:50:39.559 --> 00:50:46.199 that kind of stuff. Again, just immediately after this emotional thing, 1018 00:50:46.280 --> 00:50:50.159 he's like, you know, thinks and he's doing his executive 1019 00:50:50.199 --> 00:50:51.000 producer thing. 1020 00:50:51.159 --> 00:50:54.079 It's like, let Tony Kahan do that, like you just 1021 00:50:54.119 --> 00:50:56.239 had this. But no. 1022 00:50:56.360 --> 00:50:58.719 But so I buy the character of Cody Roose. I 1023 00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:03.880 buy the swag I uh uh, you know, Brandy, that. 1024 00:51:03.840 --> 00:51:07.039 Whole package, that whole his whole look and aesthetic. 1025 00:51:07.559 --> 00:51:10.039 It's just when he when it's time to wrestle, it's 1026 00:51:10.159 --> 00:51:15.199 just like, well, you're not as good as like an athlete, 1027 00:51:15.320 --> 00:51:18.840 as like a like a ricochet or maybe not even 1028 00:51:18.840 --> 00:51:23.000 somebody that's so you know, dynamic, but and but you're 1029 00:51:23.039 --> 00:51:26.679 not as big as even like a Randy Orton to 1030 00:51:26.679 --> 00:51:30.559 to do certain to make certain things look legitimate. So 1031 00:51:31.079 --> 00:51:34.360 he's to me, he's a little stuck in between as 1032 00:51:34.360 --> 00:51:37.079 a as a wrestler, strictly as a wrestler, but as 1033 00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:40.559 a character, as a as a just outside of the ring. 1034 00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:41.719 I do buy. 1035 00:51:41.519 --> 00:51:44.239 It, and I think I think, if you have to 1036 00:51:44.280 --> 00:51:47.360 have one or the other, I will go with character 1037 00:51:47.480 --> 00:51:51.239 and personality every time. I think one hundred years of 1038 00:51:51.239 --> 00:51:55.599 pro wrestling has taught us that that dynamic personalities and 1039 00:51:55.920 --> 00:52:01.360 micability draws a whole lot more money. Then this is awesome. 1040 00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:03.719 This is awesome. Work great, that's awesome. 1041 00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:04.119 It is. 1042 00:52:04.199 --> 00:52:06.760 I love a good, you know, five star match like 1043 00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:08.599 the next person. But if I if you're going to 1044 00:52:08.679 --> 00:52:11.280 have one over the other, having some personality is probably 1045 00:52:11.639 --> 00:52:13.440 you know what, you what you'd want your. 1046 00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:15.800 Attributes to be a little little bumped up and and 1047 00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:16.519 Cody's got that. 1048 00:52:16.599 --> 00:52:19.519 It's just I don't buy him the physicality and and 1049 00:52:19.360 --> 00:52:20.880 the n ring stuff. 1050 00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:23.000 But he makes up for it by with his psychology. 1051 00:52:23.239 --> 00:52:26.000 He's one of the few wrestlers in a w that 1052 00:52:26.119 --> 00:52:29.760 I that I when I watched his matches. No matter 1053 00:52:29.840 --> 00:52:33.719 what I think of his punches or suplex he knows 1054 00:52:33.800 --> 00:52:37.519 when to do certain things and how to draw you in. 1055 00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:39.239 So that takes talent. 1056 00:52:39.320 --> 00:52:42.360 So that's that's I'm kind of tearing down my own 1057 00:52:42.760 --> 00:52:46.360 own argument because that's certainly is an in ring charisma. 1058 00:52:46.199 --> 00:52:48.519 That I that I just talked about that he maybe 1059 00:52:48.559 --> 00:52:49.440 didn't have as much of. 1060 00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:52.079 I think that too, is like is uh. One of 1061 00:52:52.119 --> 00:52:54.320 the things that people really do like about Cody is 1062 00:52:54.320 --> 00:52:57.679 that his matches are not like you know Cody or 1063 00:52:57.840 --> 00:53:01.000 not like Cody, like Kenny Mega and the Young Bucks, 1064 00:53:01.159 --> 00:53:04.320 where those guys are going I mean, obviously there's psychology 1065 00:53:04.360 --> 00:53:08.039 to theirs matches, but they're these high athletic contests, where 1066 00:53:08.119 --> 00:53:11.360 as a Cody match is more about these you know, 1067 00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:16.639 plotting out these stories that borrow things from wrestling of yesteryear, 1068 00:53:16.719 --> 00:53:19.440 of things that people remember from you know, more than 1069 00:53:19.519 --> 00:53:22.280 just twenty plus years ago, from thirty plus from forty 1070 00:53:22.280 --> 00:53:25.400 plus years ago, and people still like that stuff, and 1071 00:53:25.480 --> 00:53:29.039 Cody borrows from it and gets these really good matches 1072 00:53:29.079 --> 00:53:31.440 out of people who are not thought of as these 1073 00:53:31.599 --> 00:53:32.360 top workers. 1074 00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:33.519 I mean, you think of Nick. 1075 00:53:33.400 --> 00:53:36.159 All this, he had a fantastic match with him at 1076 00:53:36.199 --> 00:53:38.519 all in That was the first time where I heard 1077 00:53:38.519 --> 00:53:41.039 the crowd and I wasn't sold on Cody before that, 1078 00:53:41.519 --> 00:53:43.960 but hearing that crowd in Chicago for that Nick All 1079 00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:46.599 this match, I mean, Cody got the biggest reaction. And 1080 00:53:46.599 --> 00:53:49.239 we're talking about Kenny Omega in the middle of the 1081 00:53:49.280 --> 00:53:54.360 IWGP Heavyweight Championship rain. We're talking about Kazuchko, Kada, Cody Abushi, 1082 00:53:54.440 --> 00:53:56.719 all those people were on the same show. But the 1083 00:53:56.719 --> 00:53:59.559 people believed in Cody because they believe in the message 1084 00:54:00.079 --> 00:54:02.400 of you know, trying to change wrestling and the way 1085 00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:05.719 that he plots out these matches, and so yeah, I mean, 1086 00:54:06.199 --> 00:54:08.719 he's not going to give you these five star matches, 1087 00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:11.000 but he's always a treat for something to look forward 1088 00:54:11.039 --> 00:54:13.320 to because the way that he does wrestle is something 1089 00:54:13.360 --> 00:54:13.920 that's different. 1090 00:54:14.960 --> 00:54:16.440 Uh, Eric, what do you, Yeah, what do you think 1091 00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:16.840 of Cody? 1092 00:54:17.159 --> 00:54:19.719 Cody? So I'm going to a somewhat different respective in 1093 00:54:19.800 --> 00:54:23.320 that I never saw Cody wrestle in WWE because I 1094 00:54:23.360 --> 00:54:24.400 wasn't paunching wrestling at the time. 1095 00:54:24.440 --> 00:54:25.119 That's fascinating. 1096 00:54:25.920 --> 00:54:28.000 Is he's a lot Is he a lot have a 1097 00:54:28.039 --> 00:54:29.840 lot more weight and muscle on him than when he 1098 00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:31.280 started out in WWE? 1099 00:54:31.360 --> 00:54:31.920 Is that group? 1100 00:54:32.679 --> 00:54:33.840 So that's I mean, but. 1101 00:54:34.039 --> 00:54:34.920 He was never Eric. 1102 00:54:35.079 --> 00:54:39.920 He was never the super athletic guy like Cody wasn't. 1103 00:54:40.199 --> 00:54:42.800 The issue with Cody was I would say it was 1104 00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:44.719 an issue, but like he wasn't looked at as oh, 1105 00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:48.239 this young kid who's just advancing the style. He's always 1106 00:54:48.360 --> 00:54:52.639 had an old school, deliberate kind of pace and vibe, 1107 00:54:53.039 --> 00:54:56.079 even when he was you know, early mid twenties. 1108 00:54:56.159 --> 00:54:58.199 So he's so I think what it was his nickname, 1109 00:54:58.239 --> 00:54:59.679 three Star Cody. I seem to. 1110 00:54:59.679 --> 00:55:02.199 Remember that a time or two. 1111 00:55:03.119 --> 00:55:08.039 Yeah, and and so uh, so for me, he like 1112 00:55:08.119 --> 00:55:11.960 he just looks like he has too much muscle for 1113 00:55:12.039 --> 00:55:15.480 his frame. Maybe and that caught might cause him to 1114 00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:19.360 be a little clumsy. But as Travis said, it's it's 1115 00:55:19.400 --> 00:55:21.519 it's more you know, it's a hell of a lot 1116 00:55:21.559 --> 00:55:23.679 more important how you are in the mic and how 1117 00:55:23.719 --> 00:55:25.920 you put your majesty together in your psychology. That's going 1118 00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:30.119 to put more butts in seats than than being a 1119 00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:35.519 five star worker. And so, uh, Cody is just to me. 1120 00:55:36.639 --> 00:55:39.800 I saw him in New Japan, and so my question 1121 00:55:40.079 --> 00:55:43.159 was when AW started, could Cody transition from sort of 1122 00:55:43.760 --> 00:55:46.360 top of the mid card of New Japan. I mean 1123 00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:48.800 he had a main event or two to you know, 1124 00:55:49.320 --> 00:55:52.000 helping headline a promotion. And I say the answer is 1125 00:55:52.039 --> 00:55:57.920 a resounding yes. The the Cody Dustin post match promo, 1126 00:55:58.079 --> 00:56:01.079 I was in tears. I mean that was just amazing. 1127 00:56:01.079 --> 00:56:02.800 I don't know if I'm getting soft in my old age, 1128 00:56:02.840 --> 00:56:08.119 but just the emotion. And I know that Cody's playing 1129 00:56:08.360 --> 00:56:12.559 from his dad's greatest hits and he's entitled to he 1130 00:56:13.280 --> 00:56:16.760 inherited them as his son. I just hope that he 1131 00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:19.960 doesn't get to the to the end of that book. 1132 00:56:20.079 --> 00:56:24.639 In WCW when Dusty was doing stuff like the Midnight 1133 00:56:24.679 --> 00:56:27.360 Writer angle that they think was voted the worst angle 1134 00:56:27.400 --> 00:56:28.480 of the year for eighty eight. 1135 00:56:28.639 --> 00:56:34.000 Maybe so I didn't just to go back six months 1136 00:56:34.119 --> 00:56:36.880 or eight months. I didn't get that in the match 1137 00:56:36.920 --> 00:56:39.519 the guy like bashed him in the head with a 1138 00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:43.480 with a implement, kicked him in the balls, his wife, 1139 00:56:43.559 --> 00:56:45.400 I think his wife. I kicked him in the balls, 1140 00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:48.000 slapped him, didn't beat him in the match. 1141 00:56:48.039 --> 00:56:50.719 And then after he's like, brother, I love you, I 1142 00:56:50.760 --> 00:56:51.280 can't do it. 1143 00:56:51.519 --> 00:56:53.599 I was just and then people were like you said 1144 00:56:53.639 --> 00:56:57.159 you were in tears, and I'm looking around, like, what's happening? 1145 00:56:57.400 --> 00:56:59.880 We did we what about the twenty minutes that just 1146 00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:04.320 that we just saw, like the blood he'd. 1147 00:57:04.079 --> 00:57:06.159 Like tried to end that man's life. 1148 00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:11.400 We're like, oh, look at the brothers there, and yeah, 1149 00:57:11.519 --> 00:57:13.960 I just remember being super frustrated back then. And that's 1150 00:57:14.079 --> 00:57:16.039 I'll come and come back to me because of the 1151 00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:17.719 because of your comment. 1152 00:57:18.840 --> 00:57:23.039 Yeah, give yourself a reason to look forward to going 1153 00:57:23.079 --> 00:57:25.679 to the mailbox each week with a PW Torch newsletter 1154 00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:30.400 paper copy. Subscription details at PW torch dot com slash 1155 00:57:30.440 --> 00:57:33.239 paper copy. It's twelve pages every week, packed with my 1156 00:57:33.360 --> 00:57:36.320 TV reports, along with exclusive features such as my cover 1157 00:57:36.400 --> 00:57:38.639 story on the top story of the week, our pay 1158 00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:42.000 per view roundtable reviews from the Torch staff, exclusive feature 1159 00:57:42.039 --> 00:57:46.719 length columns from Greg Parks, Rich Fan, Sean Radikin, Alan Coonahan, 1160 00:57:46.800 --> 00:57:50.800 and Zach Hadorn, Torch Talk, transcripts, the latest news, and more. 1161 00:57:51.159 --> 00:57:54.800 PW torch dot com slash paper Copy take a break 1162 00:57:54.840 --> 00:57:58.039 from screen time and settle in every week with a 1163 00:57:58.039 --> 00:58:01.119 megadosup wrestling news and analysis with a Pro Wrestling Torture 1164 00:58:01.119 --> 00:58:04.480 newsletter paper copy edition. In the year twenty twenty two. 1165 00:58:04.960 --> 00:58:07.440 You can get a full year of home delivery for 1166 00:58:07.599 --> 00:58:10.639 just ninety nine dollars, or try US four an eight 1167 00:58:10.639 --> 00:58:20.280 week trial subscription PW Torch dot Com Slash Paper Copy. 1168 00:58:21.679 --> 00:58:23.119 Let's look away from Cody for a second because I 1169 00:58:23.159 --> 00:58:25.639 want to talk about the the final story of the night, 1170 00:58:25.679 --> 00:58:27.719 which was John Moxley beating Jericho. 1171 00:58:28.400 --> 00:58:29.679 And it's fascinating. 1172 00:58:29.719 --> 00:58:29.840 Eric. 1173 00:58:29.880 --> 00:58:31.440 I'm gonna go to your first on this because you 1174 00:58:31.480 --> 00:58:35.039 haven't seen much of Moxley in the Shield, and you 1175 00:58:35.079 --> 00:58:38.679 haven't seen much of Chris Jericho post Monday Night War, 1176 00:58:39.199 --> 00:58:43.559 and here they are headlining and and sent, you know, 1177 00:58:43.800 --> 00:58:48.119 in a centerpiece feud in aw talk. I don't want 1178 00:58:48.119 --> 00:58:49.679 to add too much to you in one question here, 1179 00:58:49.719 --> 00:58:53.119 but talk about Jericho first of all, in what you've 1180 00:58:53.119 --> 00:58:55.679 thought of him as champion, not having like fifteen years 1181 00:58:55.719 --> 00:58:58.519 of goodwill built up during this time that you haven't 1182 00:58:58.519 --> 00:59:03.159 been following him during his athletic prime, and what you've 1183 00:59:03.239 --> 00:59:05.440 what you think of him having seen some of his 1184 00:59:05.480 --> 00:59:08.239 New Japan and now a w work as a nearly 1185 00:59:08.280 --> 00:59:08.840 fifty year old. 1186 00:59:08.840 --> 00:59:10.440 He's he's the same age as you, You and you 1187 00:59:10.519 --> 00:59:10.760 and me? 1188 00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:15.440 Uh, what you think of him being the guy chosen 1189 00:59:15.440 --> 00:59:16.960 and how he's performing as a top act in. 1190 00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:21.440 Eight lu oh, He's he's been great. He's been fantastic. 1191 00:59:21.559 --> 00:59:25.320 So I you know, tracked him through w CW and 1192 00:59:25.360 --> 00:59:29.800 then even his ww E tenyure like the Y two 1193 00:59:29.920 --> 00:59:33.599 j tenure, and he was great then, but he had 1194 00:59:33.599 --> 00:59:35.920 a lot of good will built up with me from 1195 00:59:35.960 --> 00:59:39.719 his New Japan appearances, so uh, you know. Travis mentioned 1196 00:59:39.760 --> 00:59:42.079 that cutting promos is a is a big part of 1197 00:59:42.199 --> 00:59:46.440 drawing wrestling well in New Japan. It's you know, it 1198 00:59:46.440 --> 00:59:49.360 it's it can be a little flavorless from time to time, 1199 00:59:49.519 --> 00:59:52.320 or it's a it's a different kind of way they 1200 00:59:52.400 --> 00:59:55.920 draw fans. It's a work, great based promotion. And so 1201 00:59:56.119 --> 00:59:58.719 Jericho came in and just you know, shook up the 1202 00:59:59.039 --> 01:00:02.480 apple cart in and in New Japan, and he kept 1203 01:00:02.559 --> 01:00:07.079 reinventing himself. And did I think he could carry a 1204 01:00:07.159 --> 01:00:11.320 national promotion the way he did? Not to the extent 1205 01:00:11.360 --> 01:00:14.639 that he had thought. I thought he'd succeed, But I mean, 1206 01:00:14.719 --> 01:00:17.000 he got over the whole inner circle in that one 1207 01:00:17.159 --> 01:00:19.480 interview he did on an early Dynamite. It was just 1208 01:00:19.559 --> 01:00:22.880 like he gave everybody a backstory, a persona, a nickname 1209 01:00:22.960 --> 01:00:28.440 even and everybody he you know, he's worked with. It's 1210 01:00:28.840 --> 01:00:34.320 He's had good matches, although the all out match within 1211 01:00:34.400 --> 01:00:37.159 age was a little disappointing. I don't know if the 1212 01:00:37.159 --> 01:00:39.079 crowd was burnt out by then or it just wasn't 1213 01:00:39.440 --> 01:00:43.079 wasn't as good of a match. But yeah, he's I 1214 01:00:43.119 --> 01:00:46.400 would say, you have to say he exceeded expectations, at 1215 01:00:46.480 --> 01:00:49.239 least from my perspective, and maybe it's because I didn't 1216 01:00:49.239 --> 01:00:50.519 have my expectations high enough. 1217 01:00:52.280 --> 01:00:55.559 So, Travis, what do you think about Jericho? 1218 01:00:56.159 --> 01:00:58.559 Not watching him week by week, but having seen so 1219 01:00:58.679 --> 01:01:01.239 much of his career, what do you think of what 1220 01:01:01.280 --> 01:01:02.719 you saw Saturday night? 1221 01:01:02.719 --> 01:01:03.239 In particular. 1222 01:01:03.960 --> 01:01:10.639 Yeah, I think Jericho from two thousand to probably till 1223 01:01:10.800 --> 01:01:15.480 Diana Ambrose showed up on WW was probably my favorite wrestler, 1224 01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:20.880 like just absolute gotta have one two tapes that I 1225 01:01:20.920 --> 01:01:23.400 bought at like indie shows, and it was Jericho and 1226 01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:26.360 Mysterio Bring the O to Japan on VHS that I 1227 01:01:26.360 --> 01:01:29.360 got in like two thousand and one or something. So 1228 01:01:29.519 --> 01:01:34.639 he's he's been my guy. This has been the best. 1229 01:01:34.800 --> 01:01:37.800 He was the best that I've seen him in a 1230 01:01:37.840 --> 01:01:42.599 long time, in a long time, probably since like the 1231 01:01:42.639 --> 01:01:48.719 Axiomatic Gelatinous, you know that Jericho with the suits and 1232 01:01:48.800 --> 01:01:52.119 not giving you anything entertaining and punching Rebecca Michael's in 1233 01:01:52.159 --> 01:01:55.000 the face by accident like that was probably the last 1234 01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:58.480 time he was just absolutely I got to see him. 1235 01:01:59.000 --> 01:02:03.280 Now that said, I haven't been watching him week the week, 1236 01:02:03.639 --> 01:02:05.840 but I've been, you know, Rich keeps me, keeps me 1237 01:02:05.920 --> 01:02:09.400 up and I got you guys. But everything I've seen 1238 01:02:09.480 --> 01:02:12.159 him in since he's been a part of a w 1239 01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:16.440 has been great. He was the only reson that might 1240 01:02:16.480 --> 01:02:19.119 have been why I was so disappointed on that June, 1241 01:02:19.360 --> 01:02:22.880 that December eighteenth show, like why is he's so good? 1242 01:02:22.960 --> 01:02:25.320 Why? And he's been so good up to this point, 1243 01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:26.079 Like why are they. 1244 01:02:25.960 --> 01:02:29.239 Doing this this silly, silly stuff. 1245 01:02:30.920 --> 01:02:33.400 But yeah, Jericho's is really good. 1246 01:02:33.440 --> 01:02:36.599 I thought he was the obvious pick when when they're 1247 01:02:36.639 --> 01:02:39.000 talking about an AW you know who's going to be 1248 01:02:39.039 --> 01:02:43.320 the inaugural champion. But but like I think Eric said, 1249 01:02:43.320 --> 01:02:46.400 I didn't expect it to work out as as well 1250 01:02:46.440 --> 01:02:48.440 as as well as it didn't. I expected him to 1251 01:02:48.519 --> 01:02:52.440 retain somehow tonight or or Saturday night. 1252 01:02:53.719 --> 01:02:58.239 So that was a bit of a good surprise. I guess, yeah, 1253 01:02:58.320 --> 01:03:02.239 he's not. He's not like, no, I'm only I can carry. 1254 01:03:01.920 --> 01:03:05.159 This company kind of you know, he's not doing that thing, 1255 01:03:05.280 --> 01:03:11.199 at least not yet. 1256 01:03:12.239 --> 01:03:15.239 I'm Kelly Wells, host of the seven Star podcast, the 1257 01:03:15.320 --> 01:03:18.239 new Ongoing Torch show covering the world of New Japan 1258 01:03:18.360 --> 01:03:21.639 pro wrestling. We'll drop new episodes as major shows and 1259 01:03:21.719 --> 01:03:25.000 noteworthy events dictate and I'm. 1260 01:03:24.880 --> 01:03:27.679 Chris Lansdow join us as we covered the ever changing 1261 01:03:27.760 --> 01:03:30.400 landscape of New Japan as they navigate an era with 1262 01:03:30.559 --> 01:03:31.320 no lack of talent. 1263 01:03:31.679 --> 01:03:33.880 But I really need to create some new staves. 1264 01:03:34.280 --> 01:03:36.760 You can stream the new seven Stop podcasts now from 1265 01:03:36.760 --> 01:03:37.960 Pro Wrestling Talk. 1266 01:03:47.679 --> 01:03:50.400 Well Joel where were you on Chris Jericho as of 1267 01:03:50.480 --> 01:03:53.840 last summer heading in or you know, heading into October, 1268 01:03:55.159 --> 01:03:57.920 actually heading into the tournament finals, actually be hanging that page, and. 1269 01:03:57.880 --> 01:03:59.599 Then and then where are you now? 1270 01:03:59.760 --> 01:04:01.519 And and then I want to shift and kind of 1271 01:04:01.519 --> 01:04:03.920 pivot into a discussion you kind of lead the way 1272 01:04:03.960 --> 01:04:06.880 in this regard on the decision actually shift the title 1273 01:04:07.000 --> 01:04:10.440 off of him, and your thoughts on that now a 1274 01:04:10.440 --> 01:04:11.920 couple days remote, a few days remote. 1275 01:04:12.800 --> 01:04:15.480 Yeah, So I'll actually go back a little bit further 1276 01:04:15.519 --> 01:04:17.840 to when he was in WWE for his last run, 1277 01:04:17.920 --> 01:04:20.760 when he was doing the list, and I thought that 1278 01:04:20.760 --> 01:04:22.599 that was just kind of a one note gimmick where 1279 01:04:22.639 --> 01:04:25.559 it's like, man, Jericho is capable of doing so much 1280 01:04:25.599 --> 01:04:28.880 more than this, and I understand it's getting over with 1281 01:04:28.920 --> 01:04:34.440 the audience, but it's just another cartoonish WWE thing. And 1282 01:04:34.519 --> 01:04:39.800 thus far with Jericho, he has found like this nice 1283 01:04:39.880 --> 01:04:42.119 blend of where he's able to do some of those 1284 01:04:42.199 --> 01:04:44.079 kind of fun things that he does enjoy. 1285 01:04:44.159 --> 01:04:45.280 He enjoys doing some. 1286 01:04:45.199 --> 01:04:48.719 Of those kind of outlandish, funny things, but also being 1287 01:04:48.760 --> 01:04:52.280 able to reel it in and get serious. The way 1288 01:04:52.320 --> 01:04:55.119 that he was building up that match against Hangman, where 1289 01:04:55.199 --> 01:04:58.159 he justs this crazy madman and he's like. 1290 01:04:58.079 --> 01:04:59.239 I have to beat the hangman. 1291 01:04:59.320 --> 01:05:01.159 I have to be the hangman. 1292 01:05:02.039 --> 01:05:04.360 You know, going in there and then saying, you know 1293 01:05:04.440 --> 01:05:05.480 that he's the top guy. 1294 01:05:05.519 --> 01:05:07.519 Everyone thought that it was gonna be a Kenny Omega, 1295 01:05:07.559 --> 01:05:08.920 but now I'm the top guy. 1296 01:05:09.320 --> 01:05:12.480 So he's just found this great blend where everything he 1297 01:05:12.519 --> 01:05:16.239 does is so entertaining. He pulls so much from these 1298 01:05:16.360 --> 01:05:20.280 rock stars that he enjoys, like Paul Stanley, where he 1299 01:05:20.360 --> 01:05:23.079 tries to say all these different things that gets the 1300 01:05:23.079 --> 01:05:28.800 crowd going, where he does different inflections, and where it 1301 01:05:28.960 --> 01:05:32.000 just has this certain kind of charisma because he's the 1302 01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:35.039 only one who talks that way. But again, yeah, he's 1303 01:05:35.119 --> 01:05:39.079 able to be very serious at the same time. And yeah, 1304 01:05:39.519 --> 01:05:42.480 before this match, I thought that there was a chance 1305 01:05:42.519 --> 01:05:45.199 that John Moxley could win, but by no means I 1306 01:05:45.239 --> 01:05:47.920 think it was a lock. But as the booking of 1307 01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:50.880 the show went on, it started to become pretty clear 1308 01:05:50.880 --> 01:05:54.000 to me that, man, they gotta do something that's gonna 1309 01:05:54.039 --> 01:05:57.599 send this crowd home happy. So I just thought it 1310 01:05:57.639 --> 01:06:00.480 was thinking, like, man, they're gonna do something thing where 1311 01:06:00.599 --> 01:06:04.119 Moxley's gonna win this match, because I just couldn't see 1312 01:06:04.159 --> 01:06:07.480 at this point with how many of the faces were losing, 1313 01:06:07.880 --> 01:06:11.480 that they were gonna then have Chris Jericho retain and 1314 01:06:11.559 --> 01:06:14.280 whether that's the best decision going forward with AEW, I 1315 01:06:14.280 --> 01:06:16.320 don't know at this point. I don't know, you know, 1316 01:06:16.400 --> 01:06:18.400 off the top of my head, how many great challengers 1317 01:06:18.400 --> 01:06:21.079 are set up for John Moxley. Clearly they don't want 1318 01:06:21.079 --> 01:06:23.119 to just they've said before, they don't want to just 1319 01:06:23.159 --> 01:06:27.559 do everything where it's face versus heel. So John Moxley 1320 01:06:27.599 --> 01:06:29.880 does have some other options where he could face Kenny 1321 01:06:29.920 --> 01:06:33.119 Omega again, he could face Cody because he said he's 1322 01:06:33.159 --> 01:06:37.159 waiving that stipulation. But yeah, I think it's going to 1323 01:06:37.239 --> 01:06:39.519 be interesting to see whether or not this was the 1324 01:06:39.599 --> 01:06:40.199 right decision. 1325 01:06:40.760 --> 01:06:42.920 Wait, can he just do that? I mean, I get 1326 01:06:42.960 --> 01:06:46.639 he's the chant, but like stip's got to mean something. 1327 01:06:47.079 --> 01:06:51.159 Yeah, I assure Cody, Yeah, can't challenge. 1328 01:06:51.519 --> 01:06:54.199 Well, I don't know if it's clear not whether it's 1329 01:06:54.239 --> 01:06:56.480 just Cody you know, his own word, or if it's 1330 01:06:56.480 --> 01:06:59.920 something in writing or not where they're Cody or not. 1331 01:07:00.079 --> 01:07:02.719 Can just say yeah, I guess I will challenge for 1332 01:07:02.800 --> 01:07:05.280 the title. So it seemed to me like that was 1333 01:07:05.360 --> 01:07:07.719 just a line that Moxley in the moment was saying, 1334 01:07:07.760 --> 01:07:10.199 I don't know if it's leading into any program or not. 1335 01:07:10.760 --> 01:07:13.159 And one other thing before you jump up in Joe, sorry, 1336 01:07:13.559 --> 01:07:18.360 but the crowd I could not believe. I could believe it, 1337 01:07:18.400 --> 01:07:21.480 but I was just looking around like that entire audience 1338 01:07:21.760 --> 01:07:24.639 knew every word to Jericho's song. 1339 01:07:25.000 --> 01:07:28.159 I was like, Oh, that's what that meme means. 1340 01:07:28.639 --> 01:07:31.119 I am becoming. I didn't understand. I kept seeing in 1341 01:07:31.159 --> 01:07:34.639 the wrestling group the meme and they let me know, 1342 01:07:34.920 --> 01:07:37.719 like what that meant. So, yeah, that was That was 1343 01:07:37.760 --> 01:07:38.760 awesome to watch. 1344 01:07:39.760 --> 01:07:42.119 I think it's hard for us to know in a 1345 01:07:42.239 --> 01:07:46.480 vacuum without knowing what aw has both planned in the 1346 01:07:46.480 --> 01:07:49.119 future and whether you know there wasn't there a rumor 1347 01:07:49.119 --> 01:07:51.840 that Jericho's band is going on a tour this summer 1348 01:07:52.119 --> 01:07:55.199 and it's going to be overseas and maybe, uh, he's 1349 01:07:55.239 --> 01:07:57.079 not going to be around week to week for part 1350 01:07:57.119 --> 01:07:58.719 of the summer, so they wanted to get the belt 1351 01:07:58.760 --> 01:08:01.840 off of him. It felt a little premature to me. 1352 01:08:02.599 --> 01:08:04.440 I would have liked to see him get at least 1353 01:08:04.559 --> 01:08:07.639 till the next to the Vegas pay per view with it, 1354 01:08:09.199 --> 01:08:15.159 or or especially that Yeah, Labor Day would have been 1355 01:08:15.199 --> 01:08:17.000 great too, because we'd have been back in Chicago and 1356 01:08:17.000 --> 01:08:19.520 we would have probably we would have well with. 1357 01:08:19.640 --> 01:08:22.199 Moxley, it's a full circle. It's his hometown. 1358 01:08:22.640 --> 01:08:27.000 I just so, Yeah, like Vegas were just thinking it 1359 01:08:27.039 --> 01:08:29.840 was it was just set not his hometown originally from Sency, 1360 01:08:29.920 --> 01:08:33.560 but his current hometown is residential home. 1361 01:08:35.520 --> 01:08:36.039 Yeah. 1362 01:08:36.079 --> 01:08:37.880 But but I think you had a point that that 1363 01:08:37.960 --> 01:08:41.199 I think they they thought they had to pull the trigger. 1364 01:08:41.600 --> 01:08:44.720 So are they So are they doing that? Because so 1365 01:08:44.800 --> 01:08:46.960 one of the things that's been a little off on 1366 01:08:47.640 --> 01:08:51.920 with Dynamite this is true for NXT two, uh, is 1367 01:08:51.960 --> 01:08:55.680 the pacing of the weekly television shows. It's when you 1368 01:08:55.760 --> 01:08:58.119 have three months between pay per views. Man, that is 1369 01:08:58.159 --> 01:09:02.640 a long time and it's hard to fill. Sometimes you can't. 1370 01:09:02.880 --> 01:09:05.159 You can't set up a match on Wednesday and then 1371 01:09:05.199 --> 01:09:08.039 save it all the way till Vegas. The it would 1372 01:09:08.039 --> 01:09:10.119 have peaked, the feud would have peaked, the angle would 1373 01:09:10.119 --> 01:09:13.960 have peaked way way before then. And I wonder if 1374 01:09:14.039 --> 01:09:18.359 they change the champion because they are primarily a television promotion. 1375 01:09:18.520 --> 01:09:21.239 They don't do house shows, they don't do monthly pay 1376 01:09:21.279 --> 01:09:23.960 per views. I mean, they're primarily a weekly TV program. 1377 01:09:25.000 --> 01:09:27.359 Just to freshen things up so that they have something 1378 01:09:27.439 --> 01:09:29.560 new for the viewers on TV. They're heading in a 1379 01:09:29.600 --> 01:09:35.479 different direction, whereas WWE doesn't necessarily have the same pressure 1380 01:09:35.560 --> 01:09:38.640 because they've got a lot of weekly television, but they've 1381 01:09:38.640 --> 01:09:42.199 also got monthly pay per view shows and house shows. 1382 01:09:44.119 --> 01:09:46.359 They always have an anchoring point. Once a month, you're 1383 01:09:46.399 --> 01:09:48.000 going to have it. You could you potentially could have 1384 01:09:48.079 --> 01:09:50.199 a big blowoff to feud and then move on to 1385 01:09:50.239 --> 01:09:52.520 the next thing, Whereas aw's got three months to fill 1386 01:09:52.560 --> 01:09:57.439 between shows, and it's it kind of messes with the 1387 01:09:57.479 --> 01:09:58.279 pacing a little bit. 1388 01:09:58.319 --> 01:10:02.479 I think WWE, I mean, they're all they're world champions, 1389 01:10:02.680 --> 01:10:04.680 you know, only show up a couple times a year. 1390 01:10:05.119 --> 01:10:08.000 Brock Lesnar, you know, is only there for you know, 1391 01:10:08.000 --> 01:10:09.560 when he's building up a pay per view for the 1392 01:10:09.560 --> 01:10:13.319 big shows. Otherwise he's gone. And now that they have 1393 01:10:13.359 --> 01:10:15.479 Goldberg there, he's not going to be there every week. 1394 01:10:15.520 --> 01:10:18.079 Who knows if he'll you know, hold it past WrestleMania. 1395 01:10:18.199 --> 01:10:22.439 But yeah, whereas Jericho is pretty much on AW, you 1396 01:10:22.439 --> 01:10:24.800 know every week. I think there was one exception where 1397 01:10:24.840 --> 01:10:28.399 he was, you know, had some pre taped thing. But yeah, 1398 01:10:29.000 --> 01:10:33.079 to me, we'll never know what the original plan was 1399 01:10:33.119 --> 01:10:35.960 because there was so many things that change where you know, 1400 01:10:36.079 --> 01:10:38.920 Pat Pack was supposed to face Keny Omega at all out, 1401 01:10:39.039 --> 01:10:39.319 you know. 1402 01:10:39.359 --> 01:10:41.960 Going all the way back to to win. 1403 01:10:42.119 --> 01:10:42.279 Yeah. 1404 01:10:42.359 --> 01:10:45.000 Yeah, so he was supposed to face Hangman Page at 1405 01:10:45.000 --> 01:10:47.279 double or nothing. Then the plan was for Pack to 1406 01:10:47.279 --> 01:10:48.239 face Kenny Omega. 1407 01:10:48.439 --> 01:10:52.239 There was a cascating effect of changes that really, yeah. 1408 01:10:51.840 --> 01:10:52.520 And so who knows. 1409 01:10:52.600 --> 01:10:54.840 Who knows what their original plan was that they had 1410 01:10:54.880 --> 01:10:57.000 in place, And to me, it seems like there was 1411 01:10:57.039 --> 01:10:59.079 almost there was a lot of things that were shifting around. 1412 01:10:59.359 --> 01:11:01.840 But then going to this show and there were so 1413 01:11:01.840 --> 01:11:04.560 many heels that were winning, it just seemed like, man, 1414 01:11:04.800 --> 01:11:06.399 they got to do something and that's going to send 1415 01:11:06.479 --> 01:11:10.199 the crowd home happy. So yeah, that that also I 1416 01:11:10.239 --> 01:11:13.520 think played a played a factor into John Moxley winning, 1417 01:11:13.600 --> 01:11:16.680 but it very much felt premature to me. I mean, 1418 01:11:16.720 --> 01:11:20.319 when he it was it was surprising. But as I'm 1419 01:11:20.359 --> 01:11:22.520 watching this, I'm like, man, is this the right move? 1420 01:11:22.920 --> 01:11:24.960 Was this the right time for Chris Jericho to win? 1421 01:11:25.039 --> 01:11:28.720 Because John Moxley did get a really good reaction from 1422 01:11:28.720 --> 01:11:30.239 the crowd, but it was kind of like. 1423 01:11:30.720 --> 01:11:33.399 Oh, yeah, he did win, this is great, this is cool. 1424 01:11:33.520 --> 01:11:36.479 Instead instead of like the culmination of something. Does that 1425 01:11:36.520 --> 01:11:37.000 make sense? 1426 01:11:37.840 --> 01:11:45.880 Yes, you don't have to wait for the way Keller 1427 01:11:45.920 --> 01:11:47.840 prog Wrestling post show to find out what I thought 1428 01:11:47.920 --> 01:11:50.039 of Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can 1429 01:11:50.119 --> 01:11:53.039 check out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw 1430 01:11:53.079 --> 01:11:55.680 and SmackDown at pw. 1431 01:11:55.119 --> 01:11:56.000 Torch dot com. 1432 01:11:56.000 --> 01:11:58.840 My written report will tell you what's happening in detail 1433 01:11:58.880 --> 01:12:00.880 in case you missed the show, and it will also 1434 01:12:00.960 --> 01:12:04.720 analyze key segments and give my random thoughts quips on 1435 01:12:04.760 --> 01:12:07.239 what I am watching as it airs. So check it 1436 01:12:07.279 --> 01:12:11.520 out every Monday night and Tuesday night at pwtorch dot com. 1437 01:12:11.600 --> 01:12:14.560 That also applies to WWE pay perviews. I cover those 1438 01:12:14.560 --> 01:12:17.199 live at pw torch dot com with a detailed written 1439 01:12:17.239 --> 01:12:19.600 report with star ratings, and of course you can find 1440 01:12:19.600 --> 01:12:22.520 other TV reports from other contributors to PW torch such 1441 01:12:22.520 --> 01:12:26.199 as nxt ROH, Impact Wrestling and more. Check it out 1442 01:12:26.279 --> 01:12:29.600 pw torch dot com your first stop for TV and 1443 01:12:29.720 --> 01:12:41.720 pay per view written reports, so tryvis I want to 1444 01:12:41.720 --> 01:12:44.800 ask you this, how is AW doing in terms of 1445 01:12:44.880 --> 01:12:49.439 presenting Moxley differently or how is Moxley presenting himself differently? 1446 01:12:49.439 --> 01:12:52.760 What stands out to you compared to all the matches 1447 01:12:52.800 --> 01:12:56.479 and promos that you've seen Moxley do in WWE, not 1448 01:12:56.560 --> 01:12:58.760 seeing them every week again, I keep underlining that gives 1449 01:12:58.760 --> 01:13:00.960 you kind of a fresher perspective because it's like you're 1450 01:13:01.000 --> 01:13:02.840 not watching the plant grow. You just left for two 1451 01:13:02.840 --> 01:13:05.720 weeks and came back, and now it looks it might 1452 01:13:05.760 --> 01:13:07.279 look different to you in a way that it doesn't 1453 01:13:07.279 --> 01:13:08.439 for someone watching every week. 1454 01:13:08.600 --> 01:13:10.239 What I thought about Boxley. 1455 01:13:10.439 --> 01:13:13.399 Well, I was there to see the you know when 1456 01:13:13.640 --> 01:13:15.880 when he showed up in Vegas Lash and in May, 1457 01:13:16.560 --> 01:13:19.199 and I watched the first seven. 1458 01:13:19.600 --> 01:13:22.960 Don't undercut my question, Travis. 1459 01:13:23.960 --> 01:13:27.680 On me. No, I saw the de germination of that 1460 01:13:27.880 --> 01:13:29.119 and then I saw so. 1461 01:13:30.520 --> 01:13:35.560 But like I said earlier about a w or maybe 1462 01:13:35.600 --> 01:13:40.600 I didn't, Moxley has They've taken all my interests in 1463 01:13:40.680 --> 01:13:41.680 him away. 1464 01:13:42.319 --> 01:13:43.920 I don't care about John Moxley anymore. 1465 01:13:44.560 --> 01:13:47.439 And I guess it's champion now and seeing seeing them 1466 01:13:47.439 --> 01:13:50.960 win the win the title. But that first two months 1467 01:13:50.960 --> 01:13:54.000 of TV, I was just like, we're. 1468 01:13:53.800 --> 01:13:54.920 All we're all questioning that. 1469 01:13:55.000 --> 01:13:56.239 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1470 01:13:56.279 --> 01:13:58.159 So that's that's a great point that you bring up, Travis, 1471 01:13:58.159 --> 01:14:01.319 because that way and I talked about too was that, Like, 1472 01:14:01.479 --> 01:14:04.800 why did he not? Because I thought the first segment 1473 01:14:04.880 --> 01:14:07.600 that happened on aw Dynamite should have been job Ocxuley 1474 01:14:07.600 --> 01:14:09.880 coming out there and stating his claim, you know, with 1475 01:14:09.960 --> 01:14:12.600 all that intensity, and he did it several weeks later. 1476 01:14:12.760 --> 01:14:15.600 But I'm like, man, you had that. You had the 1477 01:14:16.079 --> 01:14:18.239 chance where all these new people. 1478 01:14:17.960 --> 01:14:20.680 Were watching, people who had watched WWE, some people you 1479 01:14:20.720 --> 01:14:23.319 know who aren't watching being the late followed them in 1480 01:14:23.359 --> 01:14:26.560 New Japan, but they could. They had that chance to 1481 01:14:26.600 --> 01:14:30.600 see this guy and really ride that momentum, and they 1482 01:14:30.680 --> 01:14:31.640 just didn't do it. 1483 01:14:33.119 --> 01:14:35.159 Didn't have Japan commitments. And then he got a staff 1484 01:14:35.159 --> 01:14:37.199 in section. I don't remember the timing of that. I 1485 01:14:37.239 --> 01:14:39.680 know he missed the match. 1486 01:14:39.920 --> 01:14:41.840 That's the kind of the beginning of the cascading effects 1487 01:14:41.880 --> 01:14:44.239 of probably changing some of the layout of the timing 1488 01:14:44.239 --> 01:14:45.199 of some of the big matches. 1489 01:14:45.680 --> 01:14:47.039 So tries. 1490 01:14:47.079 --> 01:14:48.840 I want I want to ask a follow up on 1491 01:14:49.720 --> 01:14:52.720 Moxley and where you are now watching Saturday Night in 1492 01:14:52.800 --> 01:14:55.479 terms of your your belief in the idea that maybe 1493 01:14:55.840 --> 01:14:57.920 he's the lead babyface that they're going to build around 1494 01:14:57.960 --> 01:15:00.840 for a while, Moving away from the discuss the timing 1495 01:15:00.880 --> 01:15:02.880 of it and whether Jericho deserve to have about more 1496 01:15:03.239 --> 01:15:05.840 if if, if circumstances allowed for it. Just what do 1497 01:15:05.840 --> 01:15:08.119 you think of Moxley what you saw Saturday Night as 1498 01:15:08.119 --> 01:15:11.520 a guy that would intrigue you as a lead centerpiece 1499 01:15:11.560 --> 01:15:12.920 Babyface world champion character? 1500 01:15:14.760 --> 01:15:14.960 Ask? 1501 01:15:15.560 --> 01:15:19.239 Sorry as yeah, so where where are you on Moxley now? 1502 01:15:19.319 --> 01:15:22.800 Is the lead centerpiece Babyface compared to and setting aside? 1503 01:15:23.199 --> 01:15:25.479 You know, the the timing of it, or Jericho might 1504 01:15:25.479 --> 01:15:26.399 have been better or whatever. 1505 01:15:28.000 --> 01:15:32.800 I'm fine, I'm I'm interested because now if he's the champion, 1506 01:15:32.880 --> 01:15:36.199 I can't imagine they're going to have him. I'm gonna 1507 01:15:36.239 --> 01:15:38.520 be bored with him or uninterested like I was the 1508 01:15:38.560 --> 01:15:41.840 first few months of Dynamite. 1509 01:15:42.199 --> 01:15:44.600 Uh so, so him is him is champ. 1510 01:15:44.680 --> 01:15:47.079 He's he's going to get be featured, and you would 1511 01:15:47.079 --> 01:15:51.720 think he's gonna get the best stuff and the focus 1512 01:15:51.760 --> 01:15:52.399 and the attention. 1513 01:15:53.800 --> 01:15:55.319 So I'm I'm okay with it. 1514 01:15:55.319 --> 01:15:58.399 It's maybe it's my maybe it's some of my personal 1515 01:15:58.640 --> 01:16:02.199 comeback story for for for as a Dina sorry, but 1516 01:16:02.239 --> 01:16:05.039 as a as a Moxley fan, former Deena Ambrose fan. 1517 01:16:07.680 --> 01:16:08.680 A lot of it had to. 1518 01:16:08.640 --> 01:16:13.760 Do with how hard I defended on every platform I 1519 01:16:13.840 --> 01:16:17.000 was on that match with Lesner and how Lesner was 1520 01:16:17.000 --> 01:16:20.039 a big old diva and didn't want to give Moxley anything. 1521 01:16:20.279 --> 01:16:22.119 And everybody's like, yeah, but he probably wanted to go 1522 01:16:22.159 --> 01:16:24.039 in there and do garbage craft. I was like, no, 1523 01:16:24.319 --> 01:16:26.359 he's not dumb enough to go in there and do 1524 01:16:26.479 --> 01:16:30.359 that to himself. And then he has the blood bath 1525 01:16:30.840 --> 01:16:34.159 nonsense with and and I think that more than anything, 1526 01:16:34.319 --> 01:16:39.880 was the uh this this kind of Camel's back straw 1527 01:16:39.960 --> 01:16:42.119 thing with with Moxley as a character in a w 1528 01:16:42.760 --> 01:16:45.199 uh but he's but he's a champion. I can't help 1529 01:16:45.239 --> 01:16:49.920 but be interested. I'm gonna I'm going to watch tomorrow night. 1530 01:16:51.079 --> 01:16:52.800 Yes, I don't think. 1531 01:16:54.119 --> 01:16:57.199 It's portraying Moxley in a good way as a centerpiece 1532 01:16:58.000 --> 01:17:00.000 a positive for you to get you to watch beyond 1533 01:17:00.159 --> 01:17:01.760 just you know you're feeling a little invested right now 1534 01:17:01.800 --> 01:17:04.479 because of attending Saturday, Like, does Moxley as champion make 1535 01:17:04.479 --> 01:17:05.520 you more likely to watch him? 1536 01:17:05.520 --> 01:17:07.159 When Jericho was I wasn't there. 1537 01:17:07.000 --> 01:17:09.640 And I heard like it in the group chat or 1538 01:17:09.680 --> 01:17:11.720 the wrestling group of reps like, oh, Moxley just won 1539 01:17:11.800 --> 01:17:15.119 the title. I probably had the same reactionly, Oh, I 1540 01:17:15.119 --> 01:17:16.399 guess I gotta watch Wednesday. 1541 01:17:16.840 --> 01:17:20.680 Yeah, So, Eric, what do you think of of John Moxley, 1542 01:17:20.720 --> 01:17:24.079 what's your impression of him, having not seen the whole 1543 01:17:24.079 --> 01:17:26.359 Shield journey and and where are you on. 1544 01:17:26.319 --> 01:17:27.680 The decision for him to win Saturday. 1545 01:17:28.399 --> 01:17:31.560 I saw the end of this Shield journey when he 1546 01:17:31.720 --> 01:17:36.479 was wearing the gas mask fire. I sometimes catch parts 1547 01:17:36.479 --> 01:17:39.880 of Yeah, yeah, he looked miserable. The angles was terrible. 1548 01:17:40.640 --> 01:17:43.680 It just you know, it was it was not good. 1549 01:17:44.720 --> 01:17:47.880 I've heard him talk in interviews about how happy he is. 1550 01:17:49.840 --> 01:17:53.000 He's a the whole you know, how he like moves 1551 01:17:53.039 --> 01:17:56.079 his He's loosey goosey with his shoulders. He kind of 1552 01:17:56.119 --> 01:17:58.399 does you know, kind of does the standard. He's always 1553 01:17:58.399 --> 01:18:04.640 done that. But it's just I liked him in New Japan. 1554 01:18:04.800 --> 01:18:09.039 His match against Suzuki was great, like super entertaining and 1555 01:18:09.119 --> 01:18:15.079 different than what he's doing in AEW. I think he's good. 1556 01:18:15.359 --> 01:18:19.279 I see he really in all of his interviews I've heard, 1557 01:18:19.319 --> 01:18:22.239 he seems to be a huge fan of the business, 1558 01:18:22.239 --> 01:18:24.119 committed to the business. It's kind of on he ever 1559 01:18:24.159 --> 01:18:27.840 wanted to do, and it shows in his approach. It's 1560 01:18:28.039 --> 01:18:35.079 very well thought out. My fear going forward is they 1561 01:18:35.079 --> 01:18:39.880 don't seem to have anything set up for him. Who 1562 01:18:39.960 --> 01:18:43.119 is in position to challenge him? I mean, I guess 1563 01:18:43.119 --> 01:18:47.399 in some ways MJF won the second biggest singles match 1564 01:18:47.520 --> 01:18:50.279 on the card, right, but I think he MGS is 1565 01:18:50.319 --> 01:18:52.840 probably still with Cody for a while, I would think, 1566 01:18:52.920 --> 01:18:58.880 I don't so who's Omega is still embroiled. He's presumably 1567 01:18:58.880 --> 01:19:01.239 headed for some kind of feud with Page eventually, and 1568 01:19:01.239 --> 01:19:05.119 when they get there, who's going to step up and 1569 01:19:06.159 --> 01:19:12.399 challenge Mosley? I have no idea at this point. I'm 1570 01:19:12.680 --> 01:19:16.079 curious to see, but I have trepidation that the next 1571 01:19:16.119 --> 01:19:18.880 three months of TV will not be as good as 1572 01:19:18.920 --> 01:19:20.159 the last two months of TV. 1573 01:19:24.920 --> 01:19:27.479 I'm Chris Maitland and I'm justin McClellans. 1574 01:19:27.640 --> 01:19:30.000 We host Wrestling Coast to Coast, where we scour the 1575 01:19:30.039 --> 01:19:32.840 wrestling scene to find the best wrestling from the smallest places. 1576 01:19:33.119 --> 01:19:35.960 There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling 1577 01:19:36.000 --> 01:19:38.159 Coast to Coast is here to discover the men and 1578 01:19:38.199 --> 01:19:40.640 women who could be big time stars in a few years. 1579 01:19:40.920 --> 01:19:42.960 There are plenty of podcasts to voters at w W 1580 01:19:43.159 --> 01:19:46.159 and AW, but what's happening in the armories and gymnasiums 1581 01:19:46.239 --> 01:19:48.239 local wrestling hotspots around the country. 1582 01:19:48.560 --> 01:19:50.479 We can't wait to help you find the true hidden 1583 01:19:50.520 --> 01:19:52.760 gems of the wrestling world. Plus you can hear Chris 1584 01:19:52.800 --> 01:19:54.880 complain about bad referees. 1585 01:19:54.640 --> 01:19:56.560 And justin bemoaning dog pal Fins. 1586 01:19:56.680 --> 01:19:59.119 Don't forget my feudal search to see a Blue Thunderbomb 1587 01:19:59.159 --> 01:19:59.720 win a match. 1588 01:20:00.159 --> 01:20:01.239 How can I like? 1589 01:20:01.319 --> 01:20:03.880 The name says we cover the hottest independent promotions from 1590 01:20:03.920 --> 01:20:06.920 around the country. So this just as Prestige Action, West 1591 01:20:06.920 --> 01:20:09.319 Coast Pro Revolver and Beyond Wrestling. 1592 01:20:09.600 --> 01:20:12.520 Actually, Chris, I think we stick pretty much to wrestling. 1593 01:20:12.199 --> 01:20:14.600 No, I mean beyond wrestling out of Wooster, Oh right. 1594 01:20:14.760 --> 01:20:17.279 Our show's part of the PW Torch Daily Cast lineup 1595 01:20:17.319 --> 01:20:20.319 and typically drops on Thursdays. Search PW Torch in your 1596 01:20:20.359 --> 01:20:23.239 podcast app, as subscribed to the PW Torch Daily Cast, 1597 01:20:23.680 --> 01:20:26.840 or stream our shows directly from PW touch dot com. 1598 01:20:27.039 --> 01:20:29.840 Find full details on the PW Torch Daily Cast lineup 1599 01:20:29.960 --> 01:20:38.359 at pwtuschdailycast dot com. 1600 01:20:38.760 --> 01:20:41.159 Joel, what do you think about that aspect of Moxley? 1601 01:20:41.479 --> 01:20:42.560 Just is the. 1602 01:20:44.239 --> 01:20:46.840 Ground fertile for him to because remember going way back 1603 01:20:46.880 --> 01:20:49.680 to like when Sting beat Rick Flair back in nineteen 1604 01:20:49.800 --> 01:20:51.880 ninety I was in Baltimore For that event, it felt 1605 01:20:51.880 --> 01:20:55.239 like the crowning moment of this new era, and then 1606 01:20:55.520 --> 01:20:57.920 the next few months were flat because they didn't have 1607 01:20:58.319 --> 01:21:00.399 not Sting was very limited once he wasn't in the 1608 01:21:00.479 --> 01:21:02.439 ring with Flayer, who made him look twice as good. 1609 01:21:02.319 --> 01:21:03.399 As he was at that point. 1610 01:21:03.560 --> 01:21:05.600 But also they just didn't have good challenges for him, 1611 01:21:05.840 --> 01:21:08.399 and it's stalled WSW and it just took the wind 1612 01:21:08.439 --> 01:21:12.199 out of sting sales. Is there a risk of that 1613 01:21:12.279 --> 01:21:14.359 with Moxley based on the lay of the land or 1614 01:21:14.560 --> 01:21:16.720 are there one or two challengers you think they can 1615 01:21:16.760 --> 01:21:19.439 get that fit storyline wise given the lay of the 1616 01:21:19.520 --> 01:21:20.960 land that you're excited about. 1617 01:21:21.840 --> 01:21:24.399 Yeah, I mean that that was my immediate reaction to 1618 01:21:24.680 --> 01:21:27.159 Moxle witting the title is where do they go from here? 1619 01:21:27.239 --> 01:21:30.119 Because aw has done a really good job where you 1620 01:21:30.119 --> 01:21:32.960 can kind of see where them laying the groundwork for 1621 01:21:33.119 --> 01:21:34.239 their next pay per view. 1622 01:21:34.279 --> 01:21:35.640 You know where's it going to go next. 1623 01:21:35.760 --> 01:21:39.560 Especially when Moxley made his debut last year at Doubler Nothing, 1624 01:21:39.640 --> 01:21:42.039 you knew that that match was going to be against Omega, 1625 01:21:42.479 --> 01:21:44.920 and that was something to get really excited about. 1626 01:21:45.680 --> 01:21:47.319 But for Moxley, I mean, I just. 1627 01:21:47.359 --> 01:21:51.439 I can't imagine, you know, him headlining against MJF at 1628 01:21:51.479 --> 01:21:52.239 double or nothing. 1629 01:21:52.319 --> 01:21:53.840 I just don't see that. 1630 01:21:53.920 --> 01:21:55.479 I mean, there's a lot more that they can do 1631 01:21:55.560 --> 01:21:59.520 with MJF to elevate him to that point, but I 1632 01:21:59.720 --> 01:22:02.520 I just can't see that being there. And he's already 1633 01:22:02.520 --> 01:22:07.560 face Pack, you know several times on TV already. You know, 1634 01:22:07.680 --> 01:22:10.960 Kenny Omega's not there, hey man Page, you know, they're 1635 01:22:10.960 --> 01:22:13.119 already kind of tied up in their own things. So really, 1636 01:22:13.199 --> 01:22:14.800 the only thing I can see from Oxley at this 1637 01:22:14.840 --> 01:22:17.720 point is doing some sort of rematch against Jericho. I mean, 1638 01:22:17.840 --> 01:22:21.840 Jericho's is the antagonist. I mean, yeah, I mean, Jericho's 1639 01:22:21.880 --> 01:22:26.239 the best antagonist that AW has. So I could see 1640 01:22:26.279 --> 01:22:28.920 them doing some sort of stipulation match between the two. 1641 01:22:29.760 --> 01:22:32.840 Maybe they go the hardcore route and you know, Jericho 1642 01:22:32.920 --> 01:22:35.439 proves that he can also you know, hang and do the. 1643 01:22:35.439 --> 01:22:37.439 Super hardcore stuff like Moxley. 1644 01:22:38.880 --> 01:22:42.680 But yeah, that's it's a questionable decision for me because 1645 01:22:43.159 --> 01:22:45.840 I just don't see what else they can do at 1646 01:22:45.840 --> 01:22:48.439 this point where other people aren't tied up in their 1647 01:22:48.479 --> 01:22:49.239 own feuds. 1648 01:22:51.079 --> 01:22:53.119 As we keep talking here, any of you want to 1649 01:22:53.359 --> 01:22:57.039 jump in with a topic or discussion from having attended 1650 01:22:57.560 --> 01:23:01.600 Saturday Night in person in particular about being at the show, 1651 01:23:02.079 --> 01:23:04.000 or brought her about booking, you. 1652 01:23:03.960 --> 01:23:05.920 Know, just someone jump in and take over at the topic. 1653 01:23:06.960 --> 01:23:09.680 Well this I'm going against your thing, but this isn't 1654 01:23:09.680 --> 01:23:12.960 about but being in the house. But there was a 1655 01:23:13.000 --> 01:23:17.760 clickbaity ad or click baby headline about major w W 1656 01:23:18.039 --> 01:23:23.880 personality uh seen backstage revolution and it was Renee Young 1657 01:23:26.479 --> 01:23:30.399 and I thought, wait, so she wasn't even at or 1658 01:23:30.840 --> 01:23:34.199 she she probably she wasn't at the show. At the 1659 01:23:34.239 --> 01:23:37.079 Baltimore show, I guess was with the bloodbath with Omega 1660 01:23:37.600 --> 01:23:40.479 and she she was at home tweeting like god, no, 1661 01:23:40.680 --> 01:23:44.479 please stop. And I said, oh, that's why she's backstage. 1662 01:23:44.680 --> 01:23:46.640 She's not letting that happen again. She's not going to 1663 01:23:46.720 --> 01:23:49.800 sit through you know, she's going to make sure she's there, 1664 01:23:49.960 --> 01:23:50.439 like you know. 1665 01:23:50.479 --> 01:23:52.119 Run to the ring, throwing the towel, or she wants 1666 01:23:52.159 --> 01:23:58.760 to make medical decisions at the hospital in person maybe. 1667 01:23:57.840 --> 01:23:58.279 And she was. 1668 01:23:58.319 --> 01:23:59.720 She was at the Tokyo Dom too. 1669 01:23:59.800 --> 01:24:02.399 I actually saw her in the hallway, you know, I 1670 01:24:02.439 --> 01:24:04.079 got up during one of the matches and she was 1671 01:24:04.159 --> 01:24:06.159 just walking around and people wanted to take pictures with 1672 01:24:06.199 --> 01:24:06.760 her and stuff. 1673 01:24:06.800 --> 01:24:07.239 There too. 1674 01:24:07.600 --> 01:24:08.039 That's cool. 1675 01:24:09.039 --> 01:24:12.880 Wait, I'll attempt to answer your question. Yeah, Orange Cassidy 1676 01:24:13.359 --> 01:24:16.359 was so way more over than I thought he would 1677 01:24:16.399 --> 01:24:22.000 be in a match. Yeah, you know, to Travis's point 1678 01:24:22.000 --> 01:24:24.159 from a while back to me, you either get a 1679 01:24:24.159 --> 01:24:26.159 Marco Stone or you get an Orange Cassidy on your 1680 01:24:26.159 --> 01:24:29.079 weekly TV show. But you don't get both right. One 1681 01:24:29.720 --> 01:24:33.000 act like that, you can you can, you can, you 1682 01:24:33.039 --> 01:24:35.920 can sit through, but two it gets it gets to 1683 01:24:35.920 --> 01:24:40.159 be a little corny. I bought exactly I went to 1684 01:24:40.520 --> 01:24:45.239 to star Cast for all out. I bought exactly one 1685 01:24:45.279 --> 01:24:47.560 meet and greet because I'm not an autograph guy and 1686 01:24:47.600 --> 01:24:49.640 I'm not going to post a selfie with the talent 1687 01:24:49.720 --> 01:24:53.079 on social media. Not my thing. But I bought the 1688 01:24:53.119 --> 01:24:56.880 Orange Cassidy one sale for ten bucks, and I just 1689 01:24:56.920 --> 01:24:59.079 wanted to I had a question I wanted to ask him. 1690 01:24:59.640 --> 01:25:03.560 And you know, he said, how you know your your 1691 01:25:03.560 --> 01:25:07.239 act is different? And how do you have any fear 1692 01:25:07.319 --> 01:25:12.000 that you're going to be booked well and not over 1693 01:25:12.079 --> 01:25:14.239 exposed week to week because yet the time, you know, 1694 01:25:14.279 --> 01:25:16.119 a little bit of Orange Cassidy went a long way, 1695 01:25:16.199 --> 01:25:18.199 And he just said, I'm not worried about it. They 1696 01:25:18.199 --> 01:25:21.000 have a plan that of how to how to make 1697 01:25:21.039 --> 01:25:23.199 this work, and I think we're seeing the fruits to 1698 01:25:23.199 --> 01:25:27.359 that plan, right manager, manager, Manager gets his high spot 1699 01:25:27.439 --> 01:25:33.720 of the week, and I don't know, I don't know 1700 01:25:33.760 --> 01:25:36.560 if that works on TV as a wrestler week after week, 1701 01:25:38.520 --> 01:25:41.279 but man, he probably got the second. I mean, he 1702 01:25:41.319 --> 01:25:45.439 and Hangman Page probably have some of the biggest pops 1703 01:25:45.439 --> 01:25:48.399 of the night there and we're the most over. And 1704 01:25:50.399 --> 01:25:54.520 the Orange Cassidy thing just defies defies logic. I mean, 1705 01:25:54.560 --> 01:26:00.800 it's like this avant garde kind of post wrestling, you know, 1706 01:26:00.920 --> 01:26:05.279 ironic kind of thing, but it gets over and it 1707 01:26:05.319 --> 01:26:10.239 also gives people like Jim Cornett an aneurysm. But it 1708 01:26:10.319 --> 01:26:13.399 worked and he had to. I have I've seen maybe 1709 01:26:13.399 --> 01:26:16.920 a half dozen Orange Cassidy matches on YouTube. But did 1710 01:26:16.960 --> 01:26:20.039 he do more Saturday Night than he's ever done before? 1711 01:26:20.399 --> 01:26:21.000 Do you guys know? 1712 01:26:21.640 --> 01:26:26.039 No, that's that's kind of a standard. Yeah, maybe the 1713 01:26:26.079 --> 01:26:28.960 intensity because of you know, it's and he's in there 1714 01:26:28.960 --> 01:26:31.359 with pack and I'm not any None of the matches 1715 01:26:31.479 --> 01:26:35.000 I've seen on YouTube have been with the caliber wrestler 1716 01:26:35.039 --> 01:26:38.920 that Pock is so so so maybe that had something 1717 01:26:38.960 --> 01:26:40.520 to do with it and being on a pay per view, 1718 01:26:40.600 --> 01:26:43.199 you know, and not just some indie show with you know, 1719 01:26:43.199 --> 01:26:44.119 a hundred people there. 1720 01:26:45.560 --> 01:26:49.640 But it is the base of how he works. 1721 01:26:50.319 --> 01:26:53.079 The build up to to him, you know, he's, oh 1722 01:26:53.119 --> 01:26:54.880 he might care or whatever the chance is. 1723 01:26:56.640 --> 01:27:01.079 And and that's kind of standard again with some deviations. 1724 01:27:02.279 --> 01:27:04.279 And this match too, was a little bit longer, I 1725 01:27:04.279 --> 01:27:08.439 thought than his typical indie matches. But I mean the 1726 01:27:08.720 --> 01:27:11.560 amount of merchandise that this guy sells at these at 1727 01:27:11.560 --> 01:27:14.319 these events, I mean is unbelievable. I mean, we had 1728 01:27:14.319 --> 01:27:16.960 heard from a lot of people in the arenas at 1729 01:27:17.039 --> 01:27:19.239 Dynamites that you know, Orange Cassidy sells a lot of 1730 01:27:19.279 --> 01:27:23.279 these shirts. But the amount of those freshly squeezed orange 1731 01:27:23.319 --> 01:27:26.560 shirts with the thumb on it, I mean that that 1732 01:27:26.720 --> 01:27:28.479 was crazy to me. I mean, there are so many 1733 01:27:28.520 --> 01:27:30.079 people wearing those shirts around there. 1734 01:27:30.279 --> 01:27:32.560 We took a trip to Pro Wrest some tees and he, 1735 01:27:33.439 --> 01:27:37.520 you know, outside of the Bucks in Jericho, he's, uh, 1736 01:27:38.760 --> 01:27:39.319 he has. 1737 01:27:39.159 --> 01:27:41.760 The most stuff. I think he has two T shirts. 1738 01:27:41.439 --> 01:27:44.279 He's got a foam some he's got all kinds of 1739 01:27:44.319 --> 01:27:46.960 other nick knacks that you can. 1740 01:27:47.039 --> 01:27:47.760 That you can buy. 1741 01:27:47.840 --> 01:27:51.640 So yeah, he's he's doing all right as far as 1742 01:27:51.640 --> 01:27:52.079 that goes. 1743 01:27:53.880 --> 01:27:56.600 Anywhere worth going is worth going in good boots. Find 1744 01:27:56.600 --> 01:28:00.680 your perfect pair with Dakovis, there's a style for every style. 1745 01:28:01.079 --> 01:28:04.880 Takovis crafts quality Western boots for everyone from generational ranchers 1746 01:28:04.880 --> 01:28:07.960 and lifelong cowboys to first time boot buyers. Born in 1747 01:28:08.000 --> 01:28:10.760 Texas in twenty fifteen, to Covis makes it easy for 1748 01:28:10.880 --> 01:28:13.680 anyone to find their perfect boot. Every one of Takov's 1749 01:28:13.680 --> 01:28:17.279 boots are handcrafted with over two hundred meticulous steps for 1750 01:28:17.439 --> 01:28:20.279 broken in comfort right out of the box. 1751 01:28:20.680 --> 01:28:21.319 Whether it's a. 1752 01:28:21.319 --> 01:28:23.399 Long day or a big night, your Tacovas are built 1753 01:28:23.439 --> 01:28:27.000 to last and impress. That's why Esquire loves them and 1754 01:28:27.039 --> 01:28:30.239 says there's a reason we keep coming back to Takova's 1755 01:28:30.680 --> 01:28:32.359 if you ever wondered if you can pull off boots 1756 01:28:32.359 --> 01:28:35.199 with your personal style. With Takova's there's a style for 1757 01:28:35.279 --> 01:28:37.880 every style. You might be more Sean Michaels, you might 1758 01:28:37.960 --> 01:28:41.279 be more dusty Rhads, maybe your brock Lessner or cowboy 1759 01:28:41.399 --> 01:28:44.479 James Storm. Maybe you see yourselves more Hangman Page or 1760 01:28:44.479 --> 01:28:49.039 maybe the natural dustin roads. Tacovis has a style for you. Plus, 1761 01:28:49.079 --> 01:28:51.640 with Takoba's best in the West, guarantee you'll get free 1762 01:28:51.680 --> 01:28:55.560 returns in exchanges for thirty days right now, get ten 1763 01:28:55.600 --> 01:28:57.760 percent off at to Covis dot com slash wade. When 1764 01:28:57.800 --> 01:29:00.800 you sign up for email in texts that's ten percent 1765 01:29:00.920 --> 01:29:05.039 off at tacovis dot com slash wade. That's te c 1766 01:29:05.760 --> 01:29:10.640 o v As dot com slash wade. See the site 1767 01:29:10.680 --> 01:29:16.640 for details. To Covis point your toes West. One thing 1768 01:29:16.640 --> 01:29:19.119 that jumps about it jumps out about aw Is is 1769 01:29:19.239 --> 01:29:21.840 in it's what watching it evolve, kind of like Orange 1770 01:29:21.840 --> 01:29:27.039 Cassidy is their use of wrestlers and unconventional wrestlers in 1771 01:29:27.119 --> 01:29:29.880 unconventional ways, but also trying to put them in the 1772 01:29:29.920 --> 01:29:32.000 mix in conventional ways. 1773 01:29:32.000 --> 01:29:32.680 Marco Stunt. 1774 01:29:32.680 --> 01:29:35.960 We talked about at the beginning Darby Allen, an undersized 1775 01:29:36.000 --> 01:29:39.319 guy who you want to utilize against money, top tier 1776 01:29:39.319 --> 01:29:42.119 money guys because there's just something about him. And and 1777 01:29:42.199 --> 01:29:44.640 now Orange Cassidy with maybe a breakout moment for the 1778 01:29:44.720 --> 01:29:48.720 national audience against a super credible opponent in Pac who 1779 01:29:48.720 --> 01:29:52.560 people would have thought should destroy him. And yet the 1780 01:29:52.640 --> 01:29:56.199 way that was booked, it didn't come across as if 1781 01:29:56.760 --> 01:29:59.079 it was like, well, PAC was being charitabled Orange Cassidy. 1782 01:29:59.079 --> 01:30:00.920 It's sort of a one off. It wasn't really credible. 1783 01:30:01.039 --> 01:30:02.359 They actually booked it in a way. And this is 1784 01:30:02.359 --> 01:30:04.119 a big credit to Pack in Cassidy and the booking 1785 01:30:04.159 --> 01:30:05.560 and the producers and the agents and all that, who 1786 01:30:05.560 --> 01:30:07.600 I don't think have always been great in some of 1787 01:30:07.600 --> 01:30:11.800 their presentations. I think Orge Cassidy was helped and Pack 1788 01:30:12.840 --> 01:30:15.479 wasn't hurt and might have even been helped even though 1789 01:30:15.520 --> 01:30:18.760 he went that long in a competitive match against somebody 1790 01:30:18.760 --> 01:30:20.680 who was seen as a bit of a sideshow act. 1791 01:30:21.159 --> 01:30:23.520 I just thought that was a We talked about the 1792 01:30:23.520 --> 01:30:25.960 crowd heat, but the crowd heat was earned in part. 1793 01:30:26.439 --> 01:30:28.279 It was inherited as a match began, but it was 1794 01:30:28.319 --> 01:30:31.000 earned as a match continued. And I was really impressed 1795 01:30:31.000 --> 01:30:31.239 by that. 1796 01:30:32.600 --> 01:30:34.760 What do you do with him going forward? Though? Is 1797 01:30:34.800 --> 01:30:38.600 he a special attraction six times a year? I mean, 1798 01:30:40.560 --> 01:30:45.600 credibly speaking, who can he be? Seativity? You know, what 1799 01:30:45.720 --> 01:30:47.920 are your Peter Avalons of the world. You're Brandon Cutler's. 1800 01:30:47.960 --> 01:30:48.680 But who beyond that? 1801 01:30:48.760 --> 01:30:49.880 I mean, you keep. 1802 01:30:49.680 --> 01:30:53.560 Doing what you're doing. You don't have until it stops working. 1803 01:30:54.800 --> 01:30:57.119 I don't see why you need. There's no need to 1804 01:30:57.239 --> 01:30:59.479 go get away for if the best friends, if they're 1805 01:30:59.479 --> 01:31:02.039 going to still have them on TV, and he doesn't 1806 01:31:02.039 --> 01:31:03.680 have to be out there wrestling every week. Just come 1807 01:31:03.720 --> 01:31:05.840 out there and his outfit and his hands in his 1808 01:31:05.920 --> 01:31:09.800 pockets and his and his thumbs in the middle, and 1809 01:31:09.800 --> 01:31:14.720 and that's like he might have another match. 1810 01:31:14.880 --> 01:31:16.600 Yeah, you can add like Seawan Spears to the mix, 1811 01:31:16.640 --> 01:31:17.920 like he's somebody who you. 1812 01:31:17.920 --> 01:31:20.279 Go he could certainly could be and probably should be 1813 01:31:20.880 --> 01:31:21.880 Seawan Spears type. 1814 01:31:21.920 --> 01:31:23.720 And I think you could do something effective with Jake 1815 01:31:23.800 --> 01:31:26.439 Hager for instance, like I just you don't have to work. 1816 01:31:26.479 --> 01:31:27.880 Don't put him in against the. 1817 01:31:27.840 --> 01:31:31.640 Top three heel in a top three pay per view match, 1818 01:31:31.960 --> 01:31:33.920 But I think you can get away with having moment 1819 01:31:34.279 --> 01:31:37.840 heels who fans would just delight in seeing showing up 1820 01:31:37.880 --> 01:31:38.319 by him. 1821 01:31:38.479 --> 01:31:40.279 And it's okay to kind. 1822 01:31:40.119 --> 01:31:42.039 Of run with it if it's working in the slot 1823 01:31:42.119 --> 01:31:43.920 that it's in, Joel, what do you think? 1824 01:31:44.920 --> 01:31:47.920 Yeah, and also just not doing the same thing every week. 1825 01:31:47.960 --> 01:31:49.600 I mean, I think that he should go back to 1826 01:31:49.680 --> 01:31:51.640 kind of doing that role of being with the best 1827 01:31:51.640 --> 01:31:54.720 friends you know, on you know, outside at ringside there, 1828 01:31:55.880 --> 01:31:58.199 but also then just got they can build that to 1829 01:31:58.279 --> 01:32:01.399 be you know, a special at track action for Dynamite shows. 1830 01:32:01.439 --> 01:32:03.279 I mean, that is something that I think would draw 1831 01:32:03.359 --> 01:32:06.319 people in to watch. I mean, like we just talked 1832 01:32:06.319 --> 01:32:08.840 about with all the merchandise, the reaction that he gets 1833 01:32:08.840 --> 01:32:11.720 in the arena, you know, you could build up those 1834 01:32:11.760 --> 01:32:15.000 matches against Sean Spears or whomever, you know, other heel 1835 01:32:15.239 --> 01:32:16.960 he can go against, and I think that can be 1836 01:32:17.000 --> 01:32:18.760 a really draw, a big draw on TV. 1837 01:32:19.279 --> 01:32:21.479 Yeah, in six months, have they looped the country yet? 1838 01:32:21.520 --> 01:32:23.920 Like, there's no reason that they should take this thing 1839 01:32:24.039 --> 01:32:28.279 all around until it until they've realized, Okay, it's time 1840 01:32:28.319 --> 01:32:31.760 to evolve the character, move on with or move. 1841 01:32:31.600 --> 01:32:32.840 In a different direction or whatever. 1842 01:32:32.880 --> 01:32:35.159 But but as long as it's working, I don't think 1843 01:32:35.199 --> 01:32:38.760 there's and it's working, so there's no reason to deviate 1844 01:32:39.000 --> 01:32:39.560 this early. 1845 01:32:41.199 --> 01:32:43.439 Definitely, anyone else want to jump in with the topic, 1846 01:32:43.439 --> 01:32:45.039 We're kind of well, we'll get to the wrap up 1847 01:32:45.079 --> 01:32:47.800 stage here with the next you know, one or two quickies. 1848 01:32:48.399 --> 01:32:51.479 I had two things to say pretty quickly. 1849 01:32:51.920 --> 01:32:55.640 The thing about Jake Hager, I didn't see anything from 1850 01:32:55.720 --> 01:32:57.119 him that that makes me think that this. 1851 01:32:57.159 --> 01:33:00.520 Is a new guy, you know. I mean I still 1852 01:33:00.520 --> 01:33:04.239 thought this is just a WWE guy. Jack Swagger. He's 1853 01:33:04.279 --> 01:33:04.960 back out here. 1854 01:33:05.039 --> 01:33:08.039 He's doing a little different with an MMA sort of gimmick, 1855 01:33:08.119 --> 01:33:12.439 but there's really nothing reinvigorated that I saw with this guy. 1856 01:33:13.359 --> 01:33:15.920 And then the other thing is that the crowd wants 1857 01:33:15.960 --> 01:33:19.640 to see young Bucks, Page, Omega, those elite guys. 1858 01:33:19.640 --> 01:33:20.960 They want to see them in the main event. 1859 01:33:21.560 --> 01:33:23.680 I mean, I think that at some point or another 1860 01:33:24.079 --> 01:33:27.239 they got to get to having those guys main eventing consistently. 1861 01:33:35.119 --> 01:33:37.520 Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back, 1862 01:33:37.640 --> 01:33:40.680 relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share 1863 01:33:40.720 --> 01:33:41.279 your passion. 1864 01:33:41.800 --> 01:33:43.640 Do you want to be topped off the ledge after 1865 01:33:43.680 --> 01:33:45.920 a segment that has you wondering what the heck are 1866 01:33:45.920 --> 01:33:46.600 they thinking? 1867 01:33:47.039 --> 01:33:49.399 Do you want to join a discussion on what AW 1868 01:33:49.600 --> 01:33:52.039 is doing right and what they could do to improve? 1869 01:33:52.359 --> 01:33:54.680 Then join me Joel and me Greg for. 1870 01:33:54.680 --> 01:33:57.520 The All Elite Conversation Club every Friday on the PW 1871 01:33:57.680 --> 01:33:58.520 Torch Live Cast. 1872 01:33:58.600 --> 01:34:02.520 Fee se PW Torch in your podcast app and subscribe 1873 01:34:02.520 --> 01:34:05.720 to PW torch Daily Cast or streamer shows directly from 1874 01:34:05.720 --> 01:34:08.840 pw torch dot com. Find full details on the PW 1875 01:34:08.960 --> 01:34:22.960 Torch Daily Cast lineup at PW torchdailycast dot com. 1876 01:34:23.039 --> 01:34:25.000 Yeah, we didn't talk a lot about Hangman Page, and 1877 01:34:25.199 --> 01:34:26.560 I did kind of want to get into them so 1878 01:34:26.840 --> 01:34:29.159 let me, uh, let me just ask you Eric, your 1879 01:34:29.239 --> 01:34:33.479 thoughts on what what they should do next with Hangman Page, 1880 01:34:33.479 --> 01:34:36.039 even if it's sort of inconvenient the way in which 1881 01:34:36.039 --> 01:34:38.319 he's getting over given what seemed like the direction of 1882 01:34:38.359 --> 01:34:40.680 the story, and and what do you think about the 1883 01:34:40.680 --> 01:34:42.479 prospects of just the Bucks going all out here? 1884 01:34:42.560 --> 01:34:42.760 Is that? 1885 01:34:42.880 --> 01:34:45.880 Is that maybe a good move as they tell the story. 1886 01:34:47.359 --> 01:34:50.840 Real quickly, the Bucks, the fans aren't going to boo them. 1887 01:34:51.119 --> 01:34:52.319 I don't know what they would have to do to 1888 01:34:52.359 --> 01:34:54.199 get booed. I mean, they're just so such. 1889 01:34:54.680 --> 01:34:56.600 They did a little bit in Chicago, a little bit. 1890 01:34:56.680 --> 01:34:58.720 Yeah, well they were working. They were working heel, but 1891 01:34:58.720 --> 01:35:00.600 they were also working. They were we're going to heal 1892 01:35:00.600 --> 01:35:02.359 style against Page. I don't know what. I don't know 1893 01:35:02.359 --> 01:35:04.319 how they were handling that on the announcing, if they 1894 01:35:04.319 --> 01:35:06.239 were noting that or if they were just saying the 1895 01:35:06.279 --> 01:35:12.079 Bucks were being aggressive. But Hangman Page, Man, he really 1896 01:35:12.319 --> 01:35:14.920 came the one G one. He had what would that 1897 01:35:15.039 --> 01:35:20.640 be twenty eighteen, He sort of had his coming out 1898 01:35:20.680 --> 01:35:23.159 party in New Japan and he was great. He didn't win, 1899 01:35:23.560 --> 01:35:26.720 you know, he probably maybe half his matches, but he 1900 01:35:26.760 --> 01:35:28.439 had a really good performance against a lot of top 1901 01:35:28.479 --> 01:35:30.720 workers and sort of you know, you look at him 1902 01:35:30.720 --> 01:35:33.239 as a as a maybe a foundation piece to build 1903 01:35:33.319 --> 01:35:38.359 aw around. But boy, he he was not super over 1904 01:35:38.800 --> 01:35:42.640 against Jericho. I didn't think at all out when he 1905 01:35:42.680 --> 01:35:45.640 lost the belt. The match was okay, but not like 1906 01:35:45.640 --> 01:35:50.479 a five star classic. And who who who would have 1907 01:35:50.640 --> 01:35:58.319 thought that drinking beer with the fans would be would 1908 01:35:58.359 --> 01:36:00.560 be the key to success? Boy when has the and 1909 01:36:00.560 --> 01:36:00.960 and being. 1910 01:36:02.520 --> 01:36:05.720 Before and being surrounded by people who judge you for 1911 01:36:05.800 --> 01:36:08.159 drinking you know, who would have expected wrestling fans to 1912 01:36:08.239 --> 01:36:09.119 rally around that guy? 1913 01:36:10.119 --> 01:36:12.600 Yeah? And uh so you know, I mean it worked 1914 01:36:12.600 --> 01:36:14.880 for Sandman too, right on that micro level with E 1915 01:36:14.920 --> 01:36:19.039 c W or a stone hold obviously, But but I 1916 01:36:19.079 --> 01:36:21.000 think I get the sense Hangman is kind of a 1917 01:36:21.000 --> 01:36:24.079 thoughtful person, Like he's not a dumb you know, a 1918 01:36:24.159 --> 01:36:28.319 dumb jock type, not a dumb meathead. But it seemed 1919 01:36:28.319 --> 01:36:29.760 like they had a hard time figuring out a way 1920 01:36:29.800 --> 01:36:34.840 to get him over, and and now they have. And uh, 1921 01:36:35.560 --> 01:36:37.479 you could try and turn him heel all you want, 1922 01:36:37.520 --> 01:36:39.680 but all you're gonna do is get the fans too too. 1923 01:36:39.880 --> 01:36:46.239 Kenny Omega and Kenny Yeah, but Kenny can actually play 1924 01:36:46.560 --> 01:36:48.600 play the heel role. I don't think that's where they 1925 01:36:48.640 --> 01:36:53.880 want him. But when do they pull the trigger? Right? 1926 01:36:53.920 --> 01:36:57.680 I Mean, I think the problem with you know, having 1927 01:36:57.680 --> 01:37:00.279 weekly TV and having them band TV every week and 1928 01:37:00.359 --> 01:37:05.199 furthering the story every week is, you know, you burn 1929 01:37:05.279 --> 01:37:07.239 through this this stuff quicker. And that's been one of 1930 01:37:07.239 --> 01:37:09.560 my fears of AEW since the beginning, is they're just 1931 01:37:09.560 --> 01:37:12.159 gonna burn through too many top matches. They're gonna, you know, 1932 01:37:12.159 --> 01:37:14.359 burn through too many storylines because they have to go 1933 01:37:14.399 --> 01:37:19.000 week to week and it's only been going on since 1934 01:37:19.039 --> 01:37:21.000 what when did they win the tag titles? Was it? 1935 01:37:21.039 --> 01:37:21.960 Was it in January? 1936 01:37:22.720 --> 01:37:24.720 It was the Jericho Cruise. 1937 01:37:25.520 --> 01:37:28.520 Okay, on the cruise, so that was middle of January. 1938 01:37:28.600 --> 01:37:30.560 The storyline is only two months old, but it feels 1939 01:37:30.600 --> 01:37:33.600 like in TV time, it's been going on for four 1940 01:37:33.720 --> 01:37:37.760 or five, you know, And so are they really gonna 1941 01:37:38.680 --> 01:37:40.600 they have to pull the trigger on this before the 1942 01:37:40.680 --> 01:37:43.359 Las Vegas pay per view and Memorial Day? Right? I 1943 01:37:43.359 --> 01:37:46.279 mean they got to have some sort of turn at 1944 01:37:46.279 --> 01:37:48.199 some point. Does he turn on them in the War Games? 1945 01:37:48.560 --> 01:37:52.039 I'm sorry, Blood and Guts match in at the end 1946 01:37:52.079 --> 01:37:55.920 of March in New Jersey? I I don't know but 1947 01:37:55.960 --> 01:38:00.720 I mean, I think Paige in Omega will draw intratings 1948 01:38:00.840 --> 01:38:05.560 and potentially money. 1949 01:38:06.399 --> 01:38:10.520 I'm just thinking how long you guys will be quiet? Travis? 1950 01:38:10.520 --> 01:38:11.439 What do you think of Hangman? 1951 01:38:11.560 --> 01:38:11.680 Oh? 1952 01:38:11.960 --> 01:38:13.840 Great, now Joel talks and now I have to I'm 1953 01:38:13.840 --> 01:38:16.960 gonna go to Travis. Travis, what do you think of 1954 01:38:16.960 --> 01:38:21.840 of Hangman page as a as as an emerging act 1955 01:38:21.880 --> 01:38:23.920 that they could do something big with, Like or do 1956 01:38:23.960 --> 01:38:25.680 you look at him and be like what's all this about? 1957 01:38:26.800 --> 01:38:27.000 Yeah? 1958 01:38:27.319 --> 01:38:31.039 Did not care for the guy heading into it into 1959 01:38:31.600 --> 01:38:32.920 double or nothing right? 1960 01:38:33.239 --> 01:38:36.359 And then he's in the he wins. 1961 01:38:36.239 --> 01:38:39.560 The Battle Royal to get a title shot that the 1962 01:38:40.119 --> 01:38:43.960 twelve year old kid and the legless guy had also 1963 01:38:44.119 --> 01:38:48.199 had a chance to get a World Championship title match. 1964 01:38:48.399 --> 01:38:51.159 So so that's staying that stink. 1965 01:38:51.640 --> 01:38:54.560 I was like just whatever, I don't get it that, okay, 1966 01:38:54.640 --> 01:38:57.920 he's got the the the lariat. 1967 01:38:59.279 --> 01:38:59.600 Cool. 1968 01:39:00.880 --> 01:39:03.600 Then I saw the bromo and I got Then then 1969 01:39:03.720 --> 01:39:05.760 Rich would tell me, give me recaps on VIP what 1970 01:39:05.880 --> 01:39:09.479 happened on Dynamite, and like, okay, I don't get the 1971 01:39:09.560 --> 01:39:12.439 drinking stuff. I wouldn't want to be around him, Like 1972 01:39:12.479 --> 01:39:14.760 why are they playing up that he's it's one thing 1973 01:39:14.800 --> 01:39:17.960 to be the ass kicking, beer drinking guy. It's another 1974 01:39:18.000 --> 01:39:21.479 thing to be the guy portrayed as the jerk because 1975 01:39:21.479 --> 01:39:24.680 he's always drunk like that. So I just didn't get 1976 01:39:24.720 --> 01:39:27.159 where they were going. And then I saw the sit 1977 01:39:27.239 --> 01:39:30.800 down interview with JR. And the Bucks, and I got 1978 01:39:31.720 --> 01:39:35.800 just one hundred percent more interested in Hangman. I was like, 1979 01:39:35.920 --> 01:39:41.159 one the Bucks can't win, because I assumed it was 1980 01:39:41.199 --> 01:39:47.039 gonna be Hangman. Either turns this past Saturday in the match. 1981 01:39:47.000 --> 01:39:49.920 Leading to them losing the titles and in him. 1982 01:39:49.760 --> 01:39:54.039 And Omega feud, or they lose the titles which leads 1983 01:39:54.079 --> 01:39:57.159 to bitterness and then he turns and him and Omega 1984 01:39:57.199 --> 01:40:01.119 have their thing and it maybe culminates Vegas. But after 1985 01:40:01.159 --> 01:40:04.159 I saw the promo, I said, they have to retain 1986 01:40:04.520 --> 01:40:08.199 because the way that the story is way more interesting 1987 01:40:08.640 --> 01:40:11.760 with after they don't put out how they feel about 1988 01:40:11.800 --> 01:40:14.439 the guy, Like I thought they were friends, and then 1989 01:40:14.439 --> 01:40:16.880 they come on TV like nobody liked you, you were 1990 01:40:16.920 --> 01:40:22.560 a jobber, We got you a job, completely undercutting the fact, like, well, 1991 01:40:22.560 --> 01:40:25.640 he's in your group that you call elite, and now 1992 01:40:25.680 --> 01:40:27.680 you're telling me he's a no one liked him and 1993 01:40:27.720 --> 01:40:31.479 he's a Jobber, So I complete, I turned I'm a 1994 01:40:31.479 --> 01:40:33.600 big bucks fan by any stretch, but I was like, 1995 01:40:33.920 --> 01:40:37.760 I'm all behind this guy now a Page and then 1996 01:40:37.840 --> 01:40:41.359 and then in that atmosphere and then him responding the 1997 01:40:41.399 --> 01:40:45.359 way he did in the match with the physicality and 1998 01:40:45.399 --> 01:40:48.880 how he ended up winning and he got the pen 1999 01:40:49.439 --> 01:40:51.600 the pen fall, and it was just it was just 2000 01:40:51.680 --> 01:40:56.880 booked fantastically specifically to get him over and I just couldn't. 2001 01:40:56.520 --> 01:41:00.119 Believe how you know, that cowboy ish chant. 2002 01:41:00.199 --> 01:41:03.720 Was was was was really awesome. I think for me, 2003 01:41:04.960 --> 01:41:09.399 Page was probably the best part of that show. And 2004 01:41:10.199 --> 01:41:13.279 I was not a fan of his, say a month ago, 2005 01:41:13.800 --> 01:41:14.680 even two weeks ago. 2006 01:41:14.840 --> 01:41:15.840 Yeah, yeah, they're. 2007 01:41:16.000 --> 01:41:17.600 Very indifferent that I wasn't a fan. 2008 01:41:17.640 --> 01:41:19.920 I was just said, yeah, yeah, that's it's it's that 2009 01:41:20.039 --> 01:41:23.439 that's what's so fun about somebody with with money and 2010 01:41:23.720 --> 01:41:26.760 ideas like Tony Connan, really the whole group, that how 2011 01:41:26.760 --> 01:41:29.000 they deal with things that that are unexpected I won't 2012 01:41:29.039 --> 01:41:32.399 say gifts, but like unexpected pleasant surprises, and and how 2013 01:41:32.399 --> 01:41:34.359 they deal with it and how nimble they are and 2014 01:41:34.399 --> 01:41:37.279 do they take advantage of it. Vince Wickmann doesn't do 2015 01:41:37.439 --> 01:41:40.199 that very well. You know, when when Daniel Brian falls 2016 01:41:40.199 --> 01:41:43.079 into his lap. Red hot, let's go on television and 2017 01:41:43.079 --> 01:41:45.199 start pointing out why he shouldn't be our top star 2018 01:41:45.279 --> 01:41:48.039 by having the authority talk about Stephan McMahon and Triple 2019 01:41:48.039 --> 01:41:49.760 Age talk about how we can't have this guy in posters, 2020 01:41:49.800 --> 01:41:51.439 and they basically book him in a way that that 2021 01:41:51.520 --> 01:41:55.119 tries to confirm that that that that preconception. 2022 01:41:54.680 --> 01:41:55.960 And then you end up getting to put him on 2023 01:41:56.039 --> 01:41:57.199 the poster for your biggest show. 2024 01:41:57.760 --> 01:42:00.520 You have to because the fans still it's damaged and 2025 01:42:00.600 --> 01:42:01.920 they resent you for it, but they're not going to 2026 01:42:01.960 --> 01:42:04.439 they're not going to give in. And here you have 2027 01:42:04.439 --> 01:42:06.479 have Hangman Page and the fans are are speakings. 2028 01:42:08.319 --> 01:42:10.000 So Joel, I know you're gonna Joe in a minute ago, 2029 01:42:10.039 --> 01:42:10.680 So go ahead. 2030 01:42:10.680 --> 01:42:12.840 Now, yeah, I mean, I mean with Hangman Page, I 2031 01:42:12.840 --> 01:42:14.680 mean we're talking about so many things that happened on 2032 01:42:14.680 --> 01:42:17.119 the show. But I would say after seeing Hayman Pag 2033 01:42:17.239 --> 01:42:20.840 Hangman Page, you know from all In where he was 2034 01:42:20.880 --> 01:42:24.239 looking pretty good there, but then you know Double or Nothing, 2035 01:42:24.279 --> 01:42:26.359 where he was in kind of the Battle Royal there 2036 01:42:26.399 --> 01:42:28.000 and it was just kind of a weird thing where 2037 01:42:28.000 --> 01:42:29.960 he wins the Battle Royal, then he's in the main 2038 01:42:30.000 --> 01:42:32.560 event of All Out, and that didn't really connect with 2039 01:42:32.600 --> 01:42:35.560 the crowd, and Hangman was just he was so over 2040 01:42:35.640 --> 01:42:38.079 with the crowd and people are so into him, and 2041 01:42:38.319 --> 01:42:40.680 he looked so good in this match that he came 2042 01:42:40.720 --> 01:42:43.239 out of this as a made man. I really thought 2043 01:42:43.279 --> 01:42:45.439 that he this was the turning point where this guy 2044 01:42:45.520 --> 01:42:47.720 is a star after this match. 2045 01:42:48.720 --> 01:42:52.119 But my question with him is just where do they 2046 01:42:52.159 --> 01:42:52.720 go with this? 2047 01:42:53.239 --> 01:42:56.000 As I point out before in some of our podcast 2048 01:42:56.000 --> 01:42:58.680 way where there's so many directions. And that's what makes 2049 01:42:58.760 --> 01:43:01.039 this whole feud with the Young Bucks and Kenny Omega 2050 01:43:01.079 --> 01:43:03.920 is so interesting because there are so many paths that 2051 01:43:03.960 --> 01:43:06.439 they can go down, and I'm just not sure which 2052 01:43:06.439 --> 01:43:09.560 one is the right one. You know, if Hangman does 2053 01:43:09.600 --> 01:43:11.680 all of a sudden turn on Kenny Omega, you know, 2054 01:43:11.920 --> 01:43:13.880 how do the fans react to that? Does that you 2055 01:43:13.880 --> 01:43:17.479 know turn do this whole big heel turn for Hangman Page? 2056 01:43:17.520 --> 01:43:18.560 Does that work for him? 2057 01:43:19.159 --> 01:43:21.199 Or you know, are the Young Bucks all of a 2058 01:43:21.239 --> 01:43:24.319 sudden going to become you know, full time heels or 2059 01:43:24.359 --> 01:43:27.720 do you do something where you know, Hangman Page, you know, 2060 01:43:28.119 --> 01:43:30.680 starts a bond with Kenny Omega that no longer that 2061 01:43:30.760 --> 01:43:32.880 there's a turn there they start to have a bond 2062 01:43:32.920 --> 01:43:35.279 and then maybe something like Kenny Omega turns heel on 2063 01:43:35.319 --> 01:43:38.039 Hangman Page. There's so many different directions they can go, 2064 01:43:38.199 --> 01:43:40.920 and just I think it's a very just fragile situation 2065 01:43:41.560 --> 01:43:43.479 as to what they do with that. 2066 01:43:46.399 --> 01:43:48.880 Thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the next level. 2067 01:43:48.880 --> 01:43:51.359 With a VIP membership, get shows like this, the Way 2068 01:43:51.439 --> 01:43:54.239 Killer Prosing Podcast, Weight Keller Prosing Post Show, and the 2069 01:43:54.279 --> 01:43:58.000 pw Torch daily casts on our pw Torch VIP podcast 2070 01:43:58.039 --> 01:44:00.960 feed with ads and plugs moved from the shows for 2071 01:44:01.039 --> 01:44:04.720 a streamlined listening experience, and also hear the VIP exclusive 2072 01:44:04.720 --> 01:44:07.000 shows that I host with Rich Fan and Todd Martin, 2073 01:44:07.000 --> 01:44:09.239 Everything with Rich Fan and The Fix with Todd Martin's 2074 01:44:09.239 --> 01:44:12.560 signature VIP series. That you're missing out without a VIP membership, 2075 01:44:12.600 --> 01:44:15.239 So go vip here in twenty twenty two and enjoy 2076 01:44:15.359 --> 01:44:18.439 all the benefits, all the bonus content and the ad 2077 01:44:18.439 --> 01:44:22.439 free listening experience. Pw torch dot com slash go vi 2078 01:44:22.479 --> 01:44:32.359 ip anyone else want to jump in with final topic? 2079 01:44:32.880 --> 01:44:35.119 Yeah, real quick, I saw in the hall. 2080 01:44:35.199 --> 01:44:37.359 We stayed in the same hotel as the wrestlers at 2081 01:44:37.399 --> 01:44:39.239 the Marquis Mariott. 2082 01:44:40.119 --> 01:44:42.359 So we saw Hagar and his wife in the hallway. 2083 01:44:42.560 --> 01:44:46.920 I told him, well, good luck, Moxley. 2084 01:44:47.399 --> 01:44:52.079 They saw him around like on Michigan Michigan or Michigan Street, 2085 01:44:52.640 --> 01:44:55.800 acrossing the street, just in some sunglasses in the jacket 2086 01:44:57.359 --> 01:45:00.840 with a bag of you know, maybe some Harold's Fried 2087 01:45:00.920 --> 01:45:02.840 chicken or something, or maybe it's just some snacks. I 2088 01:45:02.840 --> 01:45:04.840 don't know, but he had a bag of some food. 2089 01:45:04.920 --> 01:45:11.880 And at the at the hotel bar Friday night, Tony 2090 01:45:11.920 --> 01:45:14.800 Kahan was there at the security. Just a bunch of 2091 01:45:14.960 --> 01:45:18.760 folks that you guys certainly would I would know who 2092 01:45:18.760 --> 01:45:19.159 they are. 2093 01:45:20.000 --> 01:45:22.640 Yeah, that's actually it was crocus like it was. 2094 01:45:23.119 --> 01:45:26.119 It was, uh, you know, it wasn't like I don't 2095 01:45:26.119 --> 01:45:28.279 I don't think anybody who was, you know, streaking across 2096 01:45:28.279 --> 01:45:29.079 the bar or anything. 2097 01:45:29.600 --> 01:45:31.399 But you know, from like as soon as you. 2098 01:45:31.319 --> 01:45:34.239 Got off the elevator, you would hear like, oh there, 2099 01:45:34.239 --> 01:45:36.000 oh there's a happening going on. 2100 01:45:37.159 --> 01:45:39.640 So yeah, everybody's having a good time. 2101 01:45:39.840 --> 01:45:44.000 I'm glad you a hotel. Go ahead, way, No, no, Joe, 2102 01:45:44.239 --> 01:45:46.199 I was kind of shifting on. Was that where was 2103 01:45:46.199 --> 01:45:46.680 that hotel? 2104 01:45:46.720 --> 01:45:47.079 Travis? 2105 01:45:47.159 --> 01:45:49.399 Was that right across from the arena or was that close? 2106 01:45:50.680 --> 01:45:53.199 No, no, no, the arena is connected to wind truss, 2107 01:45:53.439 --> 01:45:55.079 which is connected to the con. 2108 01:45:55.680 --> 01:45:56.840 It's all all three of those. 2109 01:45:56.760 --> 01:46:00.560 Buildings are connected by like bridges, air brigs or whatever. 2110 01:46:00.840 --> 01:46:03.079 So I didn't I didn't even sky, but yeah, sky bridges. 2111 01:46:03.079 --> 01:46:06.479 I never had to take take twenty degrees. I was like, 2112 01:46:06.520 --> 01:46:09.439 we're gonna are reconnected? Do I have to bring my jacket? 2113 01:46:09.680 --> 01:46:11.800 Nope, go right down the hall and make a left 2114 01:46:11.840 --> 01:46:14.319 and the right and the left and you're there. Same 2115 01:46:14.359 --> 01:46:17.119 with the con Sunday night when or Sunday when. When 2116 01:46:17.119 --> 01:46:19.319 I went to C two E two, I. 2117 01:46:19.279 --> 01:46:22.720 Thought the merchandise at the event kind of sucked. I 2118 01:46:22.720 --> 01:46:25.239 didn't think the T shirts were very good. I got 2119 01:46:25.279 --> 01:46:28.800 I got there right before maybe it's six six fifteen, 2120 01:46:28.800 --> 01:46:31.600 because the traffic was so bad with the with the 2121 01:46:31.640 --> 01:46:34.319 con and the wrestling of been going on. But I 2122 01:46:34.399 --> 01:46:37.319 was willing to, you know, part with a whole lot 2123 01:46:37.319 --> 01:46:39.239 of money and I ended up not buying anything. So 2124 01:46:39.560 --> 01:46:41.159 I thought their T shirt game was supposed to be 2125 01:46:41.199 --> 01:46:44.640 the part that was on point being a T shirt 2126 01:46:44.680 --> 01:46:47.000 promotion before they got their weekly to me, of course. 2127 01:46:47.359 --> 01:46:49.560 Yeah, they don't have the best designs. I'm not. 2128 01:46:49.960 --> 01:46:53.199 I'm not a fan of that first run when they 2129 01:46:53.279 --> 01:46:55.479 when they dropped all those about two months ago, all 2130 01:46:55.520 --> 01:46:56.960 the logos and stuff that you were going to be 2131 01:46:57.000 --> 01:46:59.479 able to get on the merge. As you're saying, eh, 2132 01:46:59.520 --> 01:47:03.680 I mean, it's it's just kind of typical wrestler logo stuff. 2133 01:47:04.399 --> 01:47:06.000 None of it jumped out to. 2134 01:47:05.960 --> 01:47:09.039 Me as this is a cool shared I'd wear, but 2135 01:47:09.119 --> 01:47:11.880 I don't wear wrestling shirts. 2136 01:47:12.640 --> 01:47:15.640 Felt like they had a lot less merchandise too, you know, 2137 01:47:16.199 --> 01:47:19.199 compared to the last previous events. Maybe I'm wrong, but 2138 01:47:19.520 --> 01:47:21.479 it seemed like they had a smaller selection, and they 2139 01:47:21.520 --> 01:47:24.039 certainly have a much smaller selection than when you go 2140 01:47:24.079 --> 01:47:25.159 to WWE shows. 2141 01:47:26.560 --> 01:47:28.680 I lied, I do wear wrestling shirts. My wrestling shirt 2142 01:47:28.720 --> 01:47:30.960 that I wore said outlaw much show, so I was 2143 01:47:31.159 --> 01:47:33.960 I was very popular at an aw share show with 2144 01:47:34.840 --> 01:47:35.479 the shirt on. 2145 01:47:42.319 --> 01:47:45.359 Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn 2146 01:47:45.439 --> 01:47:49.319 some wrestling history, don't miss the nineties Past cast Every 2147 01:47:49.319 --> 01:47:52.680 Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast feed. Alex and 2148 01:47:52.720 --> 01:47:56.000 Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by 2149 01:47:56.119 --> 01:47:58.840 taking you through the Torch issue from that very weak 2150 01:47:59.399 --> 01:48:02.520 follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the 2151 01:48:02.520 --> 01:48:05.760 happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time, as 2152 01:48:05.800 --> 01:48:09.199 The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties 2153 01:48:09.239 --> 01:48:12.640 pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast feed. 2154 01:48:22.439 --> 01:48:26.000 So it's so Eric just any brushes with fame or 2155 01:48:26.399 --> 01:48:31.199 observations from being there, and also a little perspective on 2156 01:48:31.279 --> 01:48:33.359 how kind of the buzz coming in and out of 2157 01:48:33.359 --> 01:48:37.880 the building differs from other big wrestling events in Chicago market. 2158 01:48:37.920 --> 01:48:42.439 You know, well, the All In and All Out shows 2159 01:48:42.560 --> 01:48:46.119 were fly in shows fans across the country who were 2160 01:48:46.359 --> 01:48:48.800 gonna have a good time whether the card was great 2161 01:48:48.880 --> 01:48:51.199 or the card sucked, because they had too much invested 2162 01:48:51.239 --> 01:48:54.039 to let it fail. And unfortunately both of those cards 2163 01:48:54.279 --> 01:48:58.119 cards delivered it a big way. This show probably had 2164 01:48:58.159 --> 01:49:01.920 fewer traveling people, but and and there wasn't as much 2165 01:49:01.960 --> 01:49:06.359 heat as All In and All Out, but it was 2166 01:49:06.399 --> 01:49:10.920 still a good crowd. There was a I think Joel 2167 01:49:11.000 --> 01:49:13.039 mentioned earlier that there was a little bit more of 2168 01:49:13.079 --> 01:49:18.359 that old school kind of rude chance going on. 2169 01:49:18.720 --> 01:49:20.640 There was punk chance at one point too. 2170 01:49:21.319 --> 01:49:27.680 There was especially ironically, yeah, are we to that stage 2171 01:49:27.760 --> 01:49:28.439 yet we're channing? 2172 01:49:28.439 --> 01:49:30.800 See them? Punk is ironic instead of sincere. 2173 01:49:33.720 --> 01:49:35.520 If you saw his line at c T E two 2174 01:49:35.640 --> 01:49:39.439 Sunday Sunday at noon, the fact that m j s 2175 01:49:39.600 --> 01:49:42.319 line was around the corner, and later when he left 2176 01:49:42.399 --> 01:49:45.279 Darby Allen's line was around the corner. And then Mike 2177 01:49:45.359 --> 01:49:47.560 and my man Hammertail went right up to see him 2178 01:49:47.600 --> 01:49:51.079 punk and was oh and literally just walked right up 2179 01:49:51.119 --> 01:49:54.359 and got yeh okay. 2180 01:49:56.039 --> 01:49:57.560 It was such so scarce. 2181 01:49:58.079 --> 01:50:00.840 Mike told me he a guy in front of him 2182 01:50:01.000 --> 01:50:03.960 because it was a friend of punks, like a local 2183 01:50:04.279 --> 01:50:06.600 pal of his, and they talked. 2184 01:50:06.359 --> 01:50:08.079 For like two or three minutes. 2185 01:50:09.199 --> 01:50:13.560 Wow, his line at all was super long. 2186 01:50:15.359 --> 01:50:18.520 Yeah, you're not going to get ironic CM punk chance 2187 01:50:18.560 --> 01:50:21.720 in Chicago of all places, it's his, you know, it's. 2188 01:50:21.520 --> 01:50:24.720 Worth Also Also, the Pro Wrestling Tea's booth where he 2189 01:50:24.840 --> 01:50:27.560 was was not in the prime location compared to the 2190 01:50:27.560 --> 01:50:29.159 AW booth that. 2191 01:50:29.199 --> 01:50:31.439 Was pretty much right when you walked in. 2192 01:50:32.640 --> 01:50:34.640 You know, they had a big old a w and 2193 01:50:34.640 --> 01:50:37.319 plus they were giving out tote bags and you know, 2194 01:50:37.399 --> 01:50:41.159 backpacks and stuff. So I think a lot of the 2195 01:50:41.199 --> 01:50:44.039 attention attention just went to who had to you know, 2196 01:50:44.079 --> 01:50:45.319 it was their weekend. 2197 01:50:45.760 --> 01:50:52.000 So yeah, yeah, Eric, anything else saw just observations, So 2198 01:50:52.000 --> 01:50:52.520 the running. 2199 01:50:52.640 --> 01:50:56.279 You know, this venue was in the just south of 2200 01:50:56.319 --> 01:50:59.079 downtown Chicago. It's a lot easier for people to get 2201 01:50:59.079 --> 01:51:02.520 to public transportation wise. The Seer Center way out in 2202 01:51:02.560 --> 01:51:06.760 the burbs. You you got to drive there, Yeah, can't 2203 01:51:06.760 --> 01:51:11.439 take public transportations. So I don't I'm not sure I would. 2204 01:51:12.840 --> 01:51:15.000 I feel like that should mean that the crowd might 2205 01:51:15.000 --> 01:51:18.760 be a little more diverse when they're running this. Uh 2206 01:51:19.119 --> 01:51:22.039 to Paul University Boondogle Arena. I'm sorry, it's a local 2207 01:51:22.279 --> 01:51:26.640 experience thing we trust. Yeah, As opposed to the Seers Center, 2208 01:51:26.960 --> 01:51:29.439 I don't. I don't necessarily know. I mean, it's just 2209 01:51:29.479 --> 01:51:32.199 a feeling. I don't know that an anecdote or actual 2210 01:51:32.199 --> 01:51:37.079 evidence would would bear that out. I'd probably like the 2211 01:51:37.079 --> 01:51:39.600 Seers Center better because you know, the parking is not 2212 01:51:39.680 --> 01:51:43.960 a hassle, even though it's further away from me. I 2213 01:51:43.960 --> 01:51:47.159 would imagine we'll still they could probably sell out the 2214 01:51:47.199 --> 01:51:48.680 United Center at this point. 2215 01:51:48.520 --> 01:51:49.640 You. 2216 01:51:50.640 --> 01:51:53.119 Which tends not to sell out for wrestling. It did 2217 01:51:53.279 --> 01:51:55.760 for w c W during the Monday Night Wars era. 2218 01:51:57.680 --> 01:52:01.119 But I think they're Chicago was definitely a home base 2219 01:52:01.159 --> 01:52:02.800 when you're having I don't know if this is going 2220 01:52:02.880 --> 01:52:05.840 to be a continuing thing going forward to out of 2221 01:52:05.840 --> 01:52:08.560 the four pay per views a year in Chicago. But 2222 01:52:08.600 --> 01:52:11.880 it's clearly a home base for them, and selfishly, because 2223 01:52:11.880 --> 01:52:15.439 I'm local, I'm all on board with that they. 2224 01:52:15.399 --> 01:52:18.600 Should pull back on doing so many Chicago shows and 2225 01:52:18.680 --> 01:52:21.079 I I just said, do until do stuff till it 2226 01:52:21.199 --> 01:52:23.800 till it stops working well. But when it comes to 2227 01:52:24.319 --> 01:52:26.800 comes to towns, that's not a chance. I think you should, 2228 01:52:27.560 --> 01:52:29.000 you should, you should take. 2229 01:52:29.600 --> 01:52:31.680 Yeah, they didn't sell out the Dynamite show the night 2230 01:52:31.720 --> 01:52:35.039 before Thanksgiving at Cear Center. I mean, I can't remember 2231 01:52:35.079 --> 01:52:37.720 what the crowd was. Was it six thousand, five thousand? 2232 01:52:38.920 --> 01:52:40.800 It wasn't full. 2233 01:52:41.600 --> 01:52:44.359 So so, Joel, we kind of touched on your brushes 2234 01:52:44.359 --> 01:52:47.520 of fame at ringside, but anything else from before or 2235 01:52:47.560 --> 01:52:49.680 after the show, that's kind of a fun anecdote to 2236 01:52:49.680 --> 01:52:50.960 share from being there. 2237 01:52:53.640 --> 01:52:56.079 Let's see here. Yeah, no, not, it was. 2238 01:52:56.199 --> 01:52:59.000 It was a different experience because all the other e 2239 01:52:59.359 --> 01:53:01.960 W shows I had been to had that star cast 2240 01:53:02.039 --> 01:53:04.800 convention component with it, and so a lot of the 2241 01:53:04.920 --> 01:53:07.720 fans were staying at the same hotels. You'd see the 2242 01:53:07.760 --> 01:53:10.079 wrestlers kind of walking around. There was also a lot 2243 01:53:10.079 --> 01:53:13.760 of you know, I guess you'd call them legend wrestlers, 2244 01:53:14.159 --> 01:53:18.079 you know, alum, And you know, there just wasn't that 2245 01:53:18.239 --> 01:53:21.159 this time, because I wasn't staying at the hotel for 2246 01:53:21.239 --> 01:53:25.079 the convention. It was just kind of I stayed downtown. 2247 01:53:25.359 --> 01:53:27.479 I you know, took a took a lift to the 2248 01:53:27.520 --> 01:53:29.800 wind Trust Arena. There was a bunch of people in 2249 01:53:29.840 --> 01:53:32.359 wrestling shirts there, and then I took a lift back 2250 01:53:32.399 --> 01:53:36.079 downtown and throughout the throughout the weekend that I was there, 2251 01:53:36.239 --> 01:53:39.920 I only stayed Saturday through Sunday, but I only saw 2252 01:53:39.960 --> 01:53:43.680 a couple of wrestling shirts, you know, through the downtown area. 2253 01:53:43.880 --> 01:53:46.039 And of course it's much larger than Las Vegas. But 2254 01:53:46.079 --> 01:53:47.800 when they had double or nothing going on, I mean 2255 01:53:47.840 --> 01:53:50.199 you could tell that there was a huge wrestling show 2256 01:53:50.239 --> 01:53:52.439 going on. You could see wrestling shirts all up and 2257 01:53:52.520 --> 01:53:56.399 down the strip the whole way. So yeah, it was 2258 01:53:56.439 --> 01:53:58.880 just it was a different experience. But you know, being 2259 01:53:58.960 --> 01:54:01.159 ringside for a show that it was one of the 2260 01:54:01.199 --> 01:54:03.960 most unique shows and seeing you know, how they produce 2261 01:54:04.039 --> 01:54:09.159 that and listening to you know, different different wrestlers getting communication, security, 2262 01:54:10.039 --> 01:54:14.079 different producers for the show. So yeah, just being able 2263 01:54:14.119 --> 01:54:16.119 to be a part of that aspect of a wrestling 2264 01:54:16.159 --> 01:54:18.359 show instead of just kind of sitting in the standard 2265 01:54:18.399 --> 01:54:20.640 seat and just what you see is what's happening in 2266 01:54:20.640 --> 01:54:23.720 the ring, provided for a really cool experience. 2267 01:54:24.760 --> 01:54:27.039 Very cool. Hey guys, thanks, This was a lot of fun. 2268 01:54:28.319 --> 01:54:30.640 I haven't done this before, just talking to three people 2269 01:54:30.640 --> 01:54:32.359 who attended a pay per view with such three different 2270 01:54:32.439 --> 01:54:35.640 kind of approaches and backgrounds, and I think it worked 2271 01:54:35.640 --> 01:54:38.079 out into a really fascinating discussion, at least from from 2272 01:54:38.079 --> 01:54:42.279 my chair. So Travis, thank you, absolutely, thanks. Give give 2273 01:54:42.279 --> 01:54:44.680 a quick plug Travis for for your your podcast and 2274 01:54:44.720 --> 01:54:45.159 your Twitter. 2275 01:54:45.720 --> 01:54:48.800 Sure check us out Wednesday nights every Wednesday night live, 2276 01:54:48.840 --> 01:54:51.880 six thirty Eastern the East Coast Cast. Find us on 2277 01:54:52.000 --> 01:54:54.680 the East Coastcast dot com for all. 2278 01:54:56.239 --> 01:54:57.239 You know, time. 2279 01:54:57.039 --> 01:54:59.359 And all those things, and that you can follow me 2280 01:54:59.439 --> 01:55:01.560 on Twitter at travelord and. 2281 01:55:01.520 --> 01:55:03.800 You can follow the show at East Coast Cast. 2282 01:55:04.119 --> 01:55:07.279 Awesome. Joel, thank you. How about plugs from you? 2283 01:55:08.399 --> 01:55:08.680 Yeah? 2284 01:55:08.720 --> 01:55:11.520 So I do the hit some missus columns for aw 2285 01:55:11.640 --> 01:55:13.600 Dynamite every week and you can also find me on 2286 01:55:13.640 --> 01:55:15.479 Twitter at Joel to Noel. 2287 01:55:15.880 --> 01:55:17.720 Awesome and Eric, thank you. 2288 01:55:17.840 --> 01:55:20.600 Fun catching up with you here on a podcast and 2289 01:55:20.640 --> 01:55:21.560 getting your perspective. 2290 01:55:21.680 --> 01:55:23.039 Is there anything you would like to plug. 2291 01:55:24.119 --> 01:55:26.800 If you're in the Chicago area, you could subscribe to 2292 01:55:26.880 --> 01:55:30.079 Chicago Tribune dot com. It probably would have lost you 2293 01:55:30.159 --> 01:55:34.640 diety nine cents for three months. You know, print journalism 2294 01:55:34.760 --> 01:55:37.439 is going the way of the dinosaurs and record stores 2295 01:55:37.680 --> 01:55:42.439 and video stores and so diddie. You know, just trying 2296 01:55:42.439 --> 01:55:45.760 to stay afloat and employed in journalism after twenty five years. 2297 01:55:45.760 --> 01:55:48.520 But thanks again for having me. It was nice to 2298 01:55:48.920 --> 01:55:52.319 be associated with PW. Torch once again. 2299 01:55:52.920 --> 01:55:53.079 Eric. 2300 01:55:53.079 --> 01:55:53.960 What's your beat right now? 2301 01:55:55.119 --> 01:55:58.439 I'm a deputy investigations editor, so I run a team 2302 01:55:58.439 --> 01:56:02.159 of reporters that looks into political corruption. Fortunately in Illinois, 2303 01:56:02.319 --> 01:56:07.399 there's a place full employment in Illinois prison. 2304 01:56:07.720 --> 01:56:07.920 Yeah. 2305 01:56:08.920 --> 01:56:12.399 Yeah, Oh, his post prison interviews were just amazing. What 2306 01:56:12.399 --> 01:56:15.479 what Anderson Cooper did to him was was quite compelling. 2307 01:56:15.520 --> 01:56:16.039 Television. 2308 01:56:16.880 --> 01:56:20.960 Yes, uh, and hey, I want to take this opportunity everybody, 2309 01:56:21.000 --> 01:56:24.680 subscribe to your local paper. It's journalism is important. The 2310 01:56:24.720 --> 01:56:26.520 truth is important in journalist. 2311 01:56:26.159 --> 01:56:27.199 Especially investigative. 2312 01:56:27.640 --> 01:56:30.359 Yes, that's huge and in you know. 2313 01:56:31.119 --> 01:56:34.680 Yeah, it's just as journalists get maligned in certain circles, 2314 01:56:35.960 --> 01:56:37.720 those same people who am align them are out there, 2315 01:56:37.840 --> 01:56:40.039 you know, claiming a crowd of eighty six hundred is 2316 01:56:40.159 --> 01:56:43.199 thirty thousand and and there's things when you can fact 2317 01:56:43.279 --> 01:56:45.319 check facts, you realize that people are saying the media 2318 01:56:45.359 --> 01:56:47.960 lies all the time. Are the liars? And and so 2319 01:56:48.000 --> 01:56:51.039 it's it just subscribed to your local paper. Support journalism. 2320 01:56:51.159 --> 01:56:53.039 It is some of the best money you'll spend. 2321 01:56:53.159 --> 01:56:53.520 Chip in. 2322 01:56:53.560 --> 01:56:56.199 Do your part in some form or fashion, because it's 2323 01:56:56.199 --> 01:56:59.520 important for city hall to get covered and local politics, 2324 01:56:59.520 --> 01:57:00.319 including what you do. 2325 01:57:00.479 --> 01:57:02.840 Eric, So you know, thank you for what you do. 2326 01:57:03.800 --> 01:57:04.279 Thank you. 2327 01:57:04.359 --> 01:57:06.039 Yes, all right, I try to. 2328 01:57:06.439 --> 01:57:09.319 Verify, uh yeah, that there was thirty thousand people in 2329 01:57:09.359 --> 01:57:10.920 attendance for revolution. 2330 01:57:13.560 --> 01:57:15.239 Yes, cool, I just got it. 2331 01:57:15.439 --> 01:57:17.039 Air's got to investigate. 2332 01:57:16.600 --> 01:57:21.760 Man, Yes, yes, thank you exactly. Thanks so much, guys. 2333 01:57:22.399 --> 01:57:27.880 Thank you. 2334 01:57:42.439 --> 01:57:44.920 Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions 2335 01:57:45.000 --> 01:57:48.319 or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at 2336 01:57:48.399 --> 01:57:52.199 petew torch dot com. That's Wade Keller Podcast at PW 2337 01:57:52.239 --> 01:57:55.079 torch dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter, even 2338 01:57:55.119 --> 01:57:58.199 follow us on Twitter at PW torch and follow me 2339 01:57:58.439 --> 01:58:02.239 at the Wade Keller at PW Torch and at the 2340 01:58:02.399 --> 01:58:03.039 Wade Keller. 2341 01:58:05.039 --> 01:58:08.039 Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me 2342 01:58:08.199 --> 01:58:11.760 Jason Powell host them The Three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast. 2343 01:58:12.159 --> 01:58:14.399 Each week, he'll hear the latest news and analysis from 2344 01:58:14.479 --> 01:58:16.520 me and my team at Pro Wrestling dot need along 2345 01:58:16.560 --> 01:58:19.520 with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling 2346 01:58:19.520 --> 01:58:22.880 Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in 2347 01:58:22.920 --> 01:58:26.600 the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and itunic Stitcher, Downcast, and 2348 01:58:26.680 --> 01:58:29.800 all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at 2349 01:58:29.800 --> 01:58:35.800 PW boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com. 2350 01:58:35.960 --> 01:58:37.920 Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we 2351 01:58:37.960 --> 01:58:42.520 also have a website PW toorch dot com. Daily news updates, editorials, 2352 01:58:42.840 --> 01:58:45.880 and my live TV coverage covering Raw, Dynamite and SmackDown 2353 01:58:46.119 --> 01:58:50.119 and my live pay per view coverage for WWE and AEW. 2354 01:58:50.359 --> 01:58:52.479 Create a tab or bookmark make it a daily stop. 2355 01:58:52.600 --> 01:58:54.760 Visit us throughout the day every day to keep up 2356 01:58:54.800 --> 01:58:59.359 on breaking news and more. That's pwtorch dot com. 2357 01:59:00.119 --> 01:59:03.319 An extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts. Will 2358 01:59:03.359 --> 01:59:06.800 come join me Alan frel Over in the Progress Paradise 2359 01:59:06.840 --> 01:59:10.239 at Pterbreo Torch VIP as we mask on the bright 2360 01:59:10.319 --> 01:59:12.920 side of wrestling and focus on some of the great 2361 01:59:13.000 --> 01:59:17.039 matches and shows from around the world. Be it the US, Japan, 2362 01:59:17.399 --> 01:59:20.960 Europe or Mexico. There's always a place for wrestlings past 2363 01:59:21.039 --> 01:59:24.119 and the Paradise too, and we've done fun historical shows 2364 01:59:24.119 --> 01:59:27.359 such as the We Love Liger series celebrating the glorious 2365 01:59:27.399 --> 01:59:30.520 career of Jusian thunder Lighter and Our Eye Was There 2366 01:59:30.600 --> 01:59:32.960 When shows where our guests will join me to talk 2367 01:59:33.000 --> 01:59:35.560 about a classic bout that they were in attendance for. 2368 01:59:36.119 --> 01:59:38.720 We love variety and you can expect lots of it 2369 01:59:38.800 --> 01:59:43.520 at the Progress Paradise. Detailed pw Torch VIP subscription information 2370 01:59:43.840 --> 01:59:46.600 and a list of all the VIP benefits is available 2371 01:59:46.640 --> 01:59:50.600 at pww torch vip info dot com. And yes, all 2372 01:59:50.720 --> 01:59:54.880 VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on iPhone 2373 01:59:54.920 --> 01:59:58.159 and Android devices, or you can stream them directly from 2374 01:59:58.199 --> 02:00:01.960 our ad free VIP mobile. See you in the Paradise. 2375 02:00:03.199 --> 02:00:05.680 One way that you can help us sustain our schedule 2376 02:00:05.720 --> 02:00:07.840 of putting out podcasts throughout the week is by giving 2377 02:00:07.920 --> 02:00:10.680 us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts. Just go 2378 02:00:10.720 --> 02:00:13.000 to Apple Podcasts and look for our Weight Keller Prosing 2379 02:00:13.000 --> 02:00:15.560 podcast and Weight Keller Prosing Post show and give us 2380 02:00:15.560 --> 02:00:17.920 a five star rating. We hope you think we've earned 2381 02:00:18.000 --> 02:00:20.960 that score with our fast turnaround times and our quantity 2382 02:00:21.039 --> 02:00:24.640 and quality of wrestling analysis throughout the week. So take 2383 02:00:24.680 --> 02:00:26.640 a moment out for us and do us favor and 2384 02:00:26.760 --> 02:00:29.000 give us a five star rating and Apple Podcasts that 2385 02:00:29.039 --> 02:00:32.279 helps us on search returns and helps us grow. And 2386 02:00:32.319 --> 02:00:33.920 if you want, you can add a few comments about 2387 02:00:33.920 --> 02:00:36.039 what you like about the programs in the comments section. 2388 02:00:36.199 --> 02:00:38.920 Thank you so much. 2389 02:00:40.439 --> 02:00:44.640 In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and 2390 02:00:44.760 --> 02:00:48.039 ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP 2391 02:00:48.279 --> 02:00:52.359 podcast NXT eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly 2392 02:00:52.399 --> 02:00:54.920 look at this page in NXT's early history. 2393 02:00:55.840 --> 02:00:59.000 Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks 2394 02:00:59.119 --> 02:01:01.680 NXT every Sea Saturday as we go eight years back 2395 02:01:01.760 --> 02:01:04.439 to the day to track NXT's rising talents and why 2396 02:01:04.479 --> 02:01:07.640 they did or didn't work out exclusively for PW Torch 2397 02:01:07.720 --> 02:01:08.520 VIP members. 2398 02:01:09.680 --> 02:01:12.079 PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add free 2399 02:01:12.079 --> 02:01:14.039 access to these shows and a ton of other VIP 2400 02:01:14.119 --> 02:01:16.760 exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain access 2401 02:01:16.800 --> 02:01:20.960 to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our contemporaneous 2402 02:01:20.960 --> 02:01:23.520 week to week coverage through our progressing Torch weekly newsletters 2403 02:01:23.560 --> 02:01:26.199 dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along with streaming 2404 02:01:26.199 --> 02:01:29.479 and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows from 2405 02:01:29.479 --> 02:01:32.640 the nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with wrestling's 2406 02:01:32.680 --> 02:01:36.439 top newsmakers in the nineties, and also our podcast library 2407 02:01:36.520 --> 02:01:38.520 dating back to the year two thousand and three. There's 2408 02:01:38.560 --> 02:01:43.039 no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that 2409 02:01:43.039 --> 02:01:46.199 that comes with a PW Torch VIP membership. Now approaching 2410 02:01:46.399 --> 02:01:49.560 twenty years of podcasting, Go VIP and dive into our 2411 02:01:49.600 --> 02:01:51.880 post pay per view roundtables are covered with some of 2412 02:01:51.920 --> 02:01:55.800 your favorite eras of wrestling, top name long form interviews, 2413 02:01:55.840 --> 02:01:59.119 and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years. 2414 02:01:59.199 --> 02:02:02.840 PW Torch dot com slash go vi ip. We have 2415 02:02:02.880 --> 02:02:04.479 a streamline sign up for me and you can pay 2416 02:02:04.600 --> 02:02:07.359 with PayPal or directly with your credit card or debit card. 2417 02:02:07.680 --> 02:02:09.439 In one or two minutes from right now, you can 2418 02:02:09.479 --> 02:02:12.079 be a VIP member and diving into our library. PW 2419 02:02:12.159 --> 02:02:14.000 Toorch dot com slash go vip