WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.839 Argue he was. I said, the position that he outlines 2 00:00:03.279 --> 00:00:07.919 is the same as the dogmatic position of Rome. I know, 3 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:10.240 I studied Thomas for a long time. I know that 4 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:14.839 he's not dogma. He is, however, the official philosophy of 5 00:00:14.839 --> 00:00:17.879 the Roman Catholic Church, although since Vatican Two, do we 6 00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:19.600 even know if that's still true? I don't know. We 7 00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:22.559 don't even know, because they tolerate all kinds of theologians 8 00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:26.879 who reject Thomas. So again, but what we're gonna what 9 00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:29.960 we're gonna start with is the question of the Ecomunical Council. Certainty. 10 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:32.719 We're gonna be talking about epistemology today, and that's why 11 00:00:32.759 --> 00:00:38.000 it's a specific, unique talk about epistemology and not just 12 00:00:38.079 --> 00:00:40.840 about the papal claims and the Church Fathers. You see, 13 00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:44.600 the papal claims in the Church Fathers requires giant explanations 14 00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:47.280 because of the fact that they're almost always taken out 15 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:51.000 of their context. They're copied and pasted from Catholic answers pages, 16 00:00:51.640 --> 00:00:54.320 and they don't take into account the context. For example, 17 00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:59.159 when you're an as in against Heresies makes this famous 18 00:00:59.320 --> 00:01:03.000 quote about out the church at Rome, you know, the 19 00:01:03.039 --> 00:01:05.680 Catholic answer stuff. They'll like, quote the paragraph just about 20 00:01:05.719 --> 00:01:08.599 the Church at Rome, and they don't finish the rest 21 00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:10.319 of the quote where he says why the Church of 22 00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:12.959 Rome matters. Does he say that it's an infallible charism 23 00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:16.760 given to Peter alone? Absolutely not. He says the Orthodox 24 00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:20.519 position that Rome is pre eminent because it was doubly 25 00:01:20.680 --> 00:01:25.959 apostolic because of Peter and Paul. You see, because Peter 26 00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:28.760 set up churches in other places, like the Church at Antioch, 27 00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:32.599 and nobody believes the Church of Antioch has a patrine 28 00:01:32.599 --> 00:01:36.120 supremacy because Peter ordaned the bishop there. Right now, the 29 00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:39.000 Roman Catholics are aware of this, many of some of them, 30 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:41.400 some of not many, some of them, and they come 31 00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:46.680 up with infinite mental gymnastics. And we're going to that 32 00:01:46.719 --> 00:01:49.079 requires its own specific talk. We will eventually do that 33 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:53.280 where we get through the specific papal claims, you know, 34 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:55.319 from this father, this father, this father, and all the 35 00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:57.840 way up through to the split of the Eighth Council. 36 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:01.040 And we're going to and the split is over the 37 00:02:01.079 --> 00:02:04.599 Eighth Council because actually, guess what, John the eighth pup 38 00:02:04.680 --> 00:02:08.960 John the Eighth signed the Orthodox Council. The Orthodox eighth 39 00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:13.360 Council forbidding the Filioqui. Many Roman Catholics, by the way, 40 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:17.000 who figured that out, they convert. Now most people again, 41 00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:20.919 there's always an infinite series of mental genetics. They're like 42 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:24.000 award winning I know because I used to do it. 43 00:02:24.039 --> 00:02:29.000 They are award winning Olympic mental gymnasts. Uh, and it 44 00:02:29.080 --> 00:02:33.680 never ends, and it's just a spiraling spiral, spiral of circularity. Now, 45 00:02:34.680 --> 00:02:42.719 let's talk about epistemic claims certainty in the Paopal issue 46 00:02:42.800 --> 00:02:46.400 and how ultimately it does relate to created grace, because 47 00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:48.680 this is going to revolve around a question of whether 48 00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:53.039 the individuals in the church can know truth. Now, ironically, 49 00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:57.479 Roman Catholic, Orthodox and Protestants all in some way will 50 00:02:57.520 --> 00:03:00.520 admit that individuals in the church can have certitude and 51 00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:04.759 know the truth. The means by which we have that certitude, 52 00:03:05.319 --> 00:03:07.240 the means by which we can know these things is 53 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:10.639 where there comes to disagreement. So what we're gonna have 54 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:15.400 to do, since this is a question of paradigmatic certitude, right, 55 00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:20.479 paradigm level certainty, We're going to have to question the 56 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:26.120 paradigm itself, the authority in the paradigm within that whole worldview, 57 00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:29.039 to see which one is more correct, which one is 58 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:32.240 coherent because we're at the level of final authority, we're 59 00:03:32.280 --> 00:03:34.719 at at the level of how do we know what's 60 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:39.400 religiously true? So let's start with the Roman Catholic argument. 61 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:41.879 And I think that it's pretty I don't think anybody's 62 00:03:41.919 --> 00:03:45.319 going to dispute that it's pretty standard that the office 63 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:47.360 of the papacy is the starting point. Okay, I mean, 64 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:50.280 I don't just anybody disagree with that. I mean a 65 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:53.319 Roman Catholic might admit that you could read the Bible, 66 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:55.680 it's materially sufficient and all this kind of stuff, and 67 00:03:55.680 --> 00:03:59.360 you could convert, but typically speaking, the final say so 68 00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:02.639 all TOI comes down to the papacy. They'll even say, 69 00:04:02.680 --> 00:04:04.520 for example, that the only way that we know the 70 00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:09.400 scriptures or the canon is because you know, in certain 71 00:04:09.560 --> 00:04:13.800 Western local councils, the pope affirmed the canon of Scripture. Now, 72 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:16.040 the Orthodox position does not say the exact same thing 73 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:19.759 about how we know the canon. We don't believe that 74 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:23.160 it was just a decision of the Roman bishop in 75 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:27.560 relationship to some local Western synods, which is typically how 76 00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:31.240 the Romanclolic position argues. But that's what they'll say. And 77 00:04:31.279 --> 00:04:34.720 then then we'll say so. So you see Peter because 78 00:04:34.759 --> 00:04:37.439 he was given the rock, or because he because he 79 00:04:37.480 --> 00:04:39.560 made the confession, he was said to be the rock, 80 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:43.480 and then the church is built on this specific special 81 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:47.360 place given to Peter as the Roman pontiff and all 82 00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:50.879 of his successors. Right, Vatican one is pretty clear. There's 83 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:53.000 not a whole lot of dispute. I should probably pull 84 00:04:53.079 --> 00:04:54.959 up Vatican one because it's going to be relevant to 85 00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:58.879 the question of the ordinary magisterium as well, because the 86 00:04:58.920 --> 00:05:02.079 Romancalities are confused about this issue too, and they the 87 00:05:02.199 --> 00:05:07.600 same guy about Aquinas was arguing with me about this 88 00:05:07.759 --> 00:05:11.000 as well. So I actually found a good online Vatican 89 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:14.600 one statement. Let's see if I can find that one again. 90 00:05:14.680 --> 00:05:17.639 I think this is pretty good, like a like a 91 00:05:17.720 --> 00:05:22.000 clear laying out version of it. All right, and let's 92 00:05:22.000 --> 00:05:29.839 find the ordinary statement. Yeah, there we go. So in 93 00:05:31.240 --> 00:05:34.560 chapter three, section eight, right now, again, I'm going to 94 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:37.240 say that we all kind of know the I'm going 95 00:05:37.319 --> 00:05:39.240 to read it. But we want to make two points here. 96 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:43.319 We want to start with the point of the ordinary 97 00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:46.240 magisterium because Roman Catholics are confused over this, and in fact, 98 00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:50.079 the SSPX and the normative Roman Catholics aren't even sure. 99 00:05:50.279 --> 00:05:53.079 They debate over this issue. They debate the status of 100 00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:55.959 ordinary magisterium and the desbate, they debate what is ordinary 101 00:05:56.680 --> 00:06:00.560 universal magisterium. So let's keep these facts in mind, because 102 00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:04.000 we're going to start to see how convoluted and confused 103 00:06:04.120 --> 00:06:08.839 this supposed simple system is. So let's see in that 104 00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:12.240 section chapter two, it says, wherefore we teach and declare 105 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:14.959 that by divine ordinance, the Roman Church possesses a pre 106 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:19.199 eminence of ordinary power over every other church. Right, this 107 00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:22.199 is the statement of the supremacy. They are all in 108 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:26.199 a hierarchical subordination. And it goes on to say, when 109 00:06:26.199 --> 00:06:29.600 it's matters of faith and morals. Now, first of all, 110 00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:31.560 that's pretty vague, isn't it. I mean, faith and morals 111 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:35.879 could encompass anything and everything. The power of the Supreme 112 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:39.240 Pontiff by no means distracts from the ordinary and immediate 113 00:06:39.639 --> 00:06:42.000 power of the episcopal jurisdiction of the rest of the 114 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:46.000 bishops have exceeded from the place of the apostles. So 115 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:48.600 we have this idea that it's a college, but the 116 00:06:48.680 --> 00:06:51.920 college only has that role in unison with the living 117 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:59.319 magisterial teaching of the supreme pontiff. He has, of course 118 00:06:59.399 --> 00:07:03.480 this whole jurisdiction over the entire church, immediate over his 119 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:06.720 own church in Rome, and overall churches with supreme jurisdiction. 120 00:07:07.560 --> 00:07:11.399 Now the again, and when we know when the statements 121 00:07:11.399 --> 00:07:15.560 are extraordinary, Right, extraordinary magisterium is the statement from the 122 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:18.439 See of Peter with full apostolic authority for the whole 123 00:07:18.519 --> 00:07:20.920 church on faith and morals. Right, that's what makes it 124 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:30.399 an ex cathedral extraordinary claim. And it is irrevocable and infallible. 125 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:34.160 But that's not the only time that the church is 126 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:40.079 irrevocably infallibly speaking, Let's put the quote up because people 127 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:42.240 are going to say, I'm making it up or I'm not. 128 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:46.519 I'm making up quotes. He's making up quotes from literally God, 129 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:49.639 I'm making up quotes. If they had, by the way, 130 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:50.959 if they had just read the essay, they would have 131 00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:54.079 seen the whole force and flow of my argument and 132 00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:56.360 they would have realized that So what if I misstated 133 00:07:56.399 --> 00:07:58.639 the word substance or accident, It's still the same point 134 00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:01.480 that it's created. But anyway, let's look at this statement 135 00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:04.959 on the ordinary magisterium, wherefore, by divine Catholic faith, all 136 00:08:04.959 --> 00:08:07.920 those things are to be believed which are contained in 137 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:09.959 the Word of God, found a scripture and tradition, and 138 00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:13.920 which are proposed by the Church as matters to be 139 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:17.519 believed as divinely revealed, whether by a solemn judgment that's 140 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:26.040 extraordinary or in her ordinary universal magisterium. They're de fide. 141 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:29.279 They are by divine and Catholic faith. That means dea 142 00:08:29.319 --> 00:08:34.879 fidae in Roman Catholicism. Okay, de fide, not de juree 143 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:41.039 de fide, that's means of faith dogma. So the ordinary 144 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:47.919 teaching magisterium is de fide guided by the terrorism of Peter, 145 00:08:49.320 --> 00:08:51.159 just as the rest of the doctrines are just as 146 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:55.799 the now. Again, the reason they make this distinction is that, well, 147 00:08:55.840 --> 00:09:00.360 not everything has been specified right as extraordinary. But does 148 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:03.000 that mean that just because it's not specified as extraordinary, 149 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:05.679 it doesn't have to be followed and believed, no, right, 150 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:08.320 because there are plenty of things that should, should and 151 00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:11.360 have to be believed that haven't specifically been dogmatically declared 152 00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:17.320 pretty obviously right in that scheme. Yeah, okay, so that's 153 00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:19.120 why it makes no sense to a lot of times. 154 00:09:19.159 --> 00:09:21.039 You'll hear the myth of the trads they'll be like, 155 00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:24.519 excuse me, there's only three, there's only two, there's only 156 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:28.240 three extra cathedral statements. Ever, no, there's not. That's not true. 157 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:31.960 Everything in Denzinger you have to believe. You can't. You 158 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:37.080 can't reject anything in Denzinger because what is in Dnsinger 159 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:42.559 is both extraordinary and ordinary universal magisterial teaching. In fact, 160 00:09:42.600 --> 00:09:44.559 an argument could be made, and again I don't care. 161 00:09:44.600 --> 00:09:46.720 The Romancavists can debate this all day long. I don't 162 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:48.879 care what they what they think, they can debate it 163 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:50.720 or what. I don't care what their position is. But 164 00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:54.519 they can't they can even argue amongst themselves whether they're 165 00:09:54.559 --> 00:10:01.399 catechisms are with or without error, right, because the catechisms 166 00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:05.120 are proposed by the Pope from the apostolic chair, with 167 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:08.759 full teaching authority for the entire church on faith and morals. 168 00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:12.159 So their argument that they make is that you can't 169 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:18.159 have the pope teaching universally in an ordinary magister away 170 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:22.759 for the entire church, and it be wrong. Yes, all 171 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:27.919 Roman Catholics will agree that a pope could have an error, 172 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:32.600 a private error, on some theological position, But that also 173 00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:34.879 raises another problem, because if he could have a private 174 00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:39.159 theological error, then he could also be a material heretic 175 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:41.200 or whatever. Right, Yeah, so then they have the debate 176 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:45.159 like Taylor Marshall just had two days ago, about the 177 00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:47.639 mental gymnastics of what do we do if there's a 178 00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:50.240 critical pope? Because guess what, even all the Normies are 179 00:10:50.360 --> 00:10:54.000 now starting to wonder about Frank. They're starting to think, hey, 180 00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:59.799 maybe we got to revisit this question of Frank because 181 00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:02.600 is not very Orthodox and even the Norman Catholics are 182 00:11:02.600 --> 00:11:05.120 starting to figure that out. So there is a bit 183 00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:12.840 of a dilemma then about how to reconcile the ideas 184 00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:15.960 of you know, Vatican One and all that to the 185 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:20.799 promise of Peter. And yes, somebody was pointing out I 186 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:23.720 should also mention Florence. Yeah, I will mention Florence because 187 00:11:23.720 --> 00:11:29.200 everybody brought this up. News flash. Uh, we're going to 188 00:11:29.240 --> 00:11:31.919 talk about pentarchy two. Yeah, I meant to write that 189 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:35.799 down my piece of paper here. Pentarchy's not a magical 190 00:11:35.799 --> 00:11:39.120 formula for how orthodox he determines doctrines, by the way. 191 00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:41.879 What we're going to see, by the way, is that 192 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:44.720 when the when Roman Catholics try to learn about or 193 00:11:44.759 --> 00:11:47.679 come to Orthodox ideas, they tend to and I did 194 00:11:47.679 --> 00:11:49.120 this too when I was first looking at it. They 195 00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:54.120 tend to impose all of these Roman Catholic assumptions on it, 196 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:58.120 like where's your final arbiter. Uh, if you don't have that, 197 00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:03.039 nobody knows what it is. Well, that's again, that's a 198 00:12:03.399 --> 00:12:05.639 Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the final arbner first 199 00:12:05.639 --> 00:12:07.879 of all. And they're gonna say, oh, that's Protestant, that's Protestant. 200 00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:10.559 We'll see if that's Protestant, let's see here when we 201 00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:12.799 get to that. But I just wanted to make the 202 00:12:12.840 --> 00:12:14.559 point though, that first of all, we have to understand 203 00:12:14.679 --> 00:12:18.639 that that universal Ordinary Magisterium is for the entire Church, 204 00:12:19.240 --> 00:12:23.240 has to be believed along with the Extraordinary Magisterium and 205 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:27.200 any typical before the existence of the SSPIX, any typical 206 00:12:27.279 --> 00:12:31.039 Roman Catholic dogmatic manual or essay or treatise that I've 207 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:33.480 ever seen. If you were to go to Catholic Encyclopedia 208 00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:36.720 right now and you look up Ordinary Universal Magisterium, it 209 00:12:36.759 --> 00:12:39.600 will say that it's guided by and protected by the 210 00:12:39.639 --> 00:12:44.399 Petrine Terrorism and all this kind of stuff, right. And 211 00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:46.480 then also I did want to point out I think 212 00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:51.480 there is a statement on absolute simplicity in Vatican one two. 213 00:12:53.159 --> 00:13:01.159 We're not talking about simplicity today, but there is a 214 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:08.600 statement on God is absolutely simple. Yeah, completely simple, absolutely simple. 215 00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:13.279 It doesn't matter either one same one. God is one, singular, 216 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:18.759 completely simple, unchangeable spiritual substance. He must be declared to 217 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:21.840 be in reality and in essence to sink from the world. 218 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:25.840 We don't disagree with that. Supremely happy in himself. This 219 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:30.919 is bizarre terminology and from himself an expressive and expressibly 220 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:37.440 loftier than anything beside himself. And let's see, was there 221 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:50.960 one more statement on and I think, let's see, this 222 00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:54.559 is essentially tomistic in its construction. That's why, by the way, 223 00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:56.840 and this isn't the only one. If you read the 224 00:13:56.960 --> 00:13:59.039 essay that non other Roman Catholics can actually ever read, 225 00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:01.840 they just bitch about. Well, if you read the essay 226 00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:07.120 about absolute simplicity that I wrote, eye cite the other 227 00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:12.159 previous doctrines on the simplicity from like the Council of Rhymes, 228 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:16.480 God's Justice, this is wisdess, this is wisdom, etcetera, etcetera, 229 00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:20.039 and then the Catholic Encyclopedia on the explanation of what 230 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:24.279 wisdom or what divine knowledge is what the divine attribute. 231 00:14:24.279 --> 00:14:26.159 Just look up the divine attributes and it says every 232 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:30.840 one of them are identical to the divine essence, and 233 00:14:30.919 --> 00:14:34.840 the distinctions are only virtual, nominal or conceptual. I don't 234 00:14:34.840 --> 00:14:37.080 care whether you use the words virtual, where they use 235 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:40.279 the word nominal, whether they use the word conceptual, because 236 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:43.960 it's all the same thing. It doesn't matter. And let's 237 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:45.919 do this again. Even though I already did this, and 238 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:52.240 the talks that we did on legs going to Sleep 239 00:14:53.960 --> 00:15:01.200 already covered this in the talks on absolute mutimplicity and 240 00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:10.200 all that stuff, let's cover it again. See. I even 241 00:15:10.279 --> 00:15:16.320 know in the Catholic Psychopedia verd Is it's under the 242 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:25.120 section about the divine knowledge is identical simplicity of God. 243 00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:32.879 They're all, all the statements are identical. They can't figure 244 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:35.120 out what we're talking about. They think we believe in 245 00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:42.960 a bunch of different gods. All right, let's see what 246 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:49.200 is it. What's the statement? Once again? Let's see, let's 247 00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:52.480 start up at the top. It is true that no 248 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:57.360 single predicate is adequate or exhaustive as a description of 249 00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:01.440 His infinite, infinite perfection. And that's this divine names right, 250 00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:04.960 and thus we need to employ a multitude of predicates. 251 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:09.159 He's wise, he's just loving, et cetera. If as if 252 00:16:09.159 --> 00:16:12.519 at first sight, infinity could be reached by this multiplication 253 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:16.679 of terms they're saying. But at the same time we 254 00:16:16.759 --> 00:16:19.960 recognize that this is not so being repugnant to the 255 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:22.720 divine simplicity. So they're not really distinct. There's not really 256 00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:26.080 a multitude of statements that are true about God. They're 257 00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:29.600 virtually nominally, conceptually distinct. I don't care which terms you 258 00:16:29.639 --> 00:16:31.279 want to use, pick any one of them, because they're 259 00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:34.639 not real. They're not in ry and while that truth 260 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:38.120 and while truth, goodness, wisdom, holiness, and other attributes as 261 00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:46.159 we conceive and define them, express perfections that are formally distinct. See, 262 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:52.039 they're just formally distinct, conceptual nominal. Right again, open up 263 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:55.200 the typical tomistic treatise. They're all going to tell you 264 00:16:55.720 --> 00:17:02.240 that it's not a real distinction. It's not even disputable, disputed, 265 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:11.440 all right, as applied to God, they're all ultimately identical 266 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:17.119 in meaning. Did you see that they are ultimately identical 267 00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:23.759 in meaning and describe the same ultimate reality. This is 268 00:17:23.799 --> 00:17:26.440 why Saint Basil says in letter two thirty four. If 269 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:28.279 you add up all these attributes and they say they're 270 00:17:28.279 --> 00:17:39.480 all identical, it's foolish exactly. So a little excursus there 271 00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:42.319 on absolute simplicity, again just as a reminder, because we're 272 00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:45.519 going to see that it's actually absolutely multiplicity that is 273 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:49.559 the root of why the papacy comes to be an issue. 274 00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:51.799 It's the root of the whole problem because it's an 275 00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:56.799 over emphasis on oneness, because of the over emphasis on 276 00:17:56.839 --> 00:18:00.440 the unity of God, this modalistic conception, this Younomian conception, 277 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:04.160 where all the attributes and all of the predicates are 278 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:10.880 absolutely identical in meaning in reality. That leads to this 279 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:14.680 idea that the only way to distinguish the persons is 280 00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:18.960 by philioque And how many Roman Catholic Gufus apologists who 281 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:21.240 don't even know the issue will say that there's no 282 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:24.519 other way to distinguish the persons without the philioquay. It's 283 00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:26.200 because they have no idea what they're talking about. They 284 00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:28.599 have no clue about why the Father is the soul 285 00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:32.440 cause in ark as every Eastern father teaches, every one 286 00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:36.680 of them teaches, the sole cause an ark of the 287 00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:40.359 Godhead is the person of the Father, not the common 288 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:45.079 essence of God, the person of the Father. In fact, again, 289 00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:47.559 when I mentioned the Father as the cause of the 290 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:52.400 Godhead directly quoting Saint John Damascus, what did doctor Feingeld say, 291 00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:55.000 You can't speak of cause in terms of the persons, 292 00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:57.559 in terms of God. He didn't even know what was 293 00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:01.400 the common language of all the Eastern Church fathers. Even 294 00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:05.240 the Creed says, we believe in one God, the Father, 295 00:19:05.799 --> 00:19:08.079 not the common essence of God. There is one common 296 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:10.759 essence of God, but it's the common essence the Father 297 00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:15.759 communicates to the Son and through that son to the Spirit. 298 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:22.279 So let's get back to ecumenical councils. Now. The first 299 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:24.880 point is that we want to understand that, just on 300 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:29.000 a really obvious level, the claim that we have doctrinal 301 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:37.519 religious epistemic certitude can't be said to be on the 302 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:41.839 basis of the papacy, for the simple fact that the 303 00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:45.400 papacy came into existence, you know, at whatever point you 304 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:47.240 want to chart it, we would say the Bishop of 305 00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:53.799 Rome evolved into having this these exorbitant claims of universal premiscy. 306 00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:56.680 It wasn't that way at the beginning. Obviously, Rome had 307 00:19:56.799 --> 00:19:59.880 a premacy of honor that evolved to be this sort 308 00:19:59.880 --> 00:20:02.640 of out of control thing. And by the eight hundreds 309 00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:06.559 and John the eighth signing the Eastern eighth Council and 310 00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:09.640 forbidding the Philioqua, that's when the real problems start. And 311 00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:11.440 then of course you have you know, ten fifty four 312 00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:14.000 and all that, and really again comes to the four 313 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:17.720 in the situation if you read sat Photius's Mistagaugy of 314 00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:21.720 the Holy Spirit. But Saint Photios also has essays or 315 00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:25.920 letter excuse me, where he talks about Frankish missionaries coming 316 00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:29.000 into Bulgarian areas and spreading the philioquay in the Creed. 317 00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:31.680 But the Creed had already been signed by Pope John 318 00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:34.400 the eighth saying don't add the filioqua to the Creed. 319 00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:36.440 But if you're a Roman Catholic, you say, who cares? 320 00:20:36.519 --> 00:20:40.559 Because the Pope can reverse that. Now they will say 321 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:43.359 they won't believe that, they won't believe that that John 322 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:50.319 the eighth signed the Eastern eighth Council and forbade the Creed. 323 00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:52.680 But he did, and I'm going to let me show 324 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:55.839 you the proof of that. That's in Father Dragas's essay. 325 00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:01.559 That's why this is a really important piece that I always. 326 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:07.279 I'm adding it right now to the links in the 327 00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:10.359 stream here. I don't know if has any one of 328 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:12.440 them read this. I mean I've been linking this and 329 00:21:12.519 --> 00:21:14.160 putting this in here. I'm gonna put at the top 330 00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:18.559 for you guys, right there at the top, right, so 331 00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:19.960 that should be there. I'll even put it in the 332 00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:24.640 chat for you guys can read that. Be a big 333 00:21:24.680 --> 00:21:29.599 boy and read that. My chat's not showing up here? 334 00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:34.079 Where's my chat? Let's see refresh this. I can't see 335 00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:36.839 what's going on in the chat. Am I just talking 336 00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:41.759 to nobody? Is this is this even working? Can you 337 00:21:41.799 --> 00:21:44.720 guys hear me? You guys are talking about Joel Osie. 338 00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:49.079 Can you guys hear me? I just want to make 339 00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:57.319 sure I'm not yapping into the ether to nobody. Okay, so, 340 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:00.519 uh we got I just want to I want to 341 00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:04.839 say that I want to remind you guys that let 342 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:06.079 me know if you guys can hear me, so I 343 00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:08.039 don't just keep you happening. I know the chat's always 344 00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:11.039 behind in this, in this and obs and all that. Okay, good, 345 00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:16.359 So we want to remind our guys. Here are listeners 346 00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:21.440 what the doctrine of divine simplicity, says again, do I 347 00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:25.000 need to just put I'll put the New Advent article 348 00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:27.759 on the divine nature and attributes there for you. Make 349 00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:31.519 it simple. Again, this shouldn't even be disputed. Anybody can 350 00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:34.640 open up the volume one of the Suma and the 351 00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:37.480 first few questions that deal with divine knowledge, divine unity, 352 00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:41.039 divine simplicity. Uh, and it's all going to tell you 353 00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:43.920 that they're all identical and they're only distinguished in terms 354 00:22:43.960 --> 00:22:49.720 of a virtual, terminological or conceptual sense. They're not really 355 00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:53.200 in reality distinct. And the argument is that we have 356 00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:55.359 to guard the unity of God that way or else 357 00:22:55.440 --> 00:23:00.400 we'll be try try theists or multiple theists. And these 358 00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:02.839 same Goufhases will turn around and tell you that there's 359 00:23:02.839 --> 00:23:04.599 a real distinction between the Father, the Son, and the 360 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:09.000 Spirit and it doesn't divide or cause composition in the Godhead. 361 00:23:09.039 --> 00:23:12.640 I mean, this is serious mental illness here that these 362 00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:15.279 guys can. On the one hand, they say, yeah, there's 363 00:23:15.279 --> 00:23:17.960 a real distinction between Father's son and spirit, but it's relational. 364 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:19.839 I don't care whether you call it relation. Is it 365 00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:23.200 real or not? Right? Did the Son become incarnate or 366 00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:25.279 did the whole trinity become incarnate the Son did, right, 367 00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:28.480 So he's really distinct from the Father and the Spirit. Yes, okay, 368 00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:31.039 so there's a real distinction in God that doesn't destroy 369 00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:36.759 the unity of God. It doesn't result in composition, and 370 00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:40.279 it doesn't result in division. So you already agree with 371 00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:43.079 us that there can be distinctions in a thing that 372 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:47.000 don't destroy the unity of a thing. Now, so let's 373 00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:51.119 keep that in mind. We will be refreshed on our essence, 374 00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:54.920 energy ads issue. And then when we start to think 375 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:58.759 about the ecumenical councils, and we say, and we keep 376 00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:02.079 in mind that. Okay, So the pope, the papacy as 377 00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:04.319 conceived of as a Vatican one that's what I was 378 00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:07.319 reading earlier. By the way, Vatican one. I'll have to 379 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:08.759 stick that in there, though I think I'll make up 380 00:24:08.759 --> 00:24:13.759 all these Vatican one quotes. What we need to be 381 00:24:13.880 --> 00:24:17.319 the case is Vatican one's definition to all have always 382 00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:19.799 been true, all right, So it needs to be true 383 00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:23.119 if it's going to function as a starting point for 384 00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:30.359 epistemic certainty religious certainty. Did Isaiah have knowledge and certitude 385 00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:37.799 about God? Did Noah? Yeah, they did? Okay. Did the 386 00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:40.680 apostles in the person of Christ in front of Christ, 387 00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:44.079 was the was the papacy there yet? 388 00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:45.079 No? 389 00:24:46.119 --> 00:24:50.079 Okay? So obviously, right off the bat, Okay, religious certitude 390 00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:55.319 cannot be grounded on an office, an external juridical office 391 00:24:56.200 --> 00:24:59.400 of a guy in Rome. Okay. So because people have 392 00:24:59.480 --> 00:25:05.640 obviously religious certitude known for certain about God. Proverbs talks 393 00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:10.359 about knowing God with certitude. Isaiah talks about knowing God. 394 00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:15.319 They directly interacted with the logos. Isaiah saw him. John says, 395 00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:21.759 Isaiah saw Christ seated on his throne when the Angel 396 00:25:21.799 --> 00:25:26.240 of the Lord appeared. Those Theophanes. Did they have to 397 00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:30.440 write to Rome and see if the Theophanes were real? 398 00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:37.240 Did Paul submit his letter to the Romans, to the Romans, 399 00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:40.359 to the church at Rome. He wrote a letter rebuking 400 00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:42.039 the church at Rome. Did he submit it to them 401 00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:45.440 for their approval so that they would No, he wrote 402 00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:49.799 to them with authority. Okay, So right off the bat, again, 403 00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:56.119 it's very obvious that on a basic epistemic level, religious 404 00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:00.799 certitude does not come from merely having or saying there's 405 00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:09.359 an external juridical guy who can make a decision. Okay, So, 406 00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:14.359 but what if we tried to argue that that now 407 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:17.440 things have changed because of Pentecost and because of the 408 00:26:17.480 --> 00:26:19.799 coming Christ, and so now it's different. And now there 409 00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:25.279 is a juridical guy who sits in a magic throne 410 00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:27.599 and knows right, game of thrones and type of stuff, 411 00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:31.839 and that's that's how Jesus organized it, right. So so 412 00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:33.920 maybe it wasn't true in the Old Testament. They could 413 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:38.720 have a direct kind of intuitive certitude or whatever kind 414 00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:41.799 of experience the prophets did, and they knew God existed. 415 00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:44.880 But now it's different. No, no, wait a minute, I 416 00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:48.480 thought Pentecost was supposed to be a better state of 417 00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:54.000 being than in the Old Testament. Pentecost is supposed to 418 00:26:54.039 --> 00:26:58.119 come to bring what would the Roman Catholics say, infallibility 419 00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:02.920 to the church. Who's the church ultimately the pope. So 420 00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:09.319 Pentecost is really in their mind just for the pope. Now, 421 00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:12.519 this is completely foreign to the mind of anybody who 422 00:27:12.559 --> 00:27:16.000 knows orthodox theology, because we would look to the earliest 423 00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:18.039 days of the Church and you can see that, for 424 00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:22.279 example the letters of Ignatius or in Irenaeus. The fullness 425 00:27:22.359 --> 00:27:27.559 of Catholicity exists in the local bishopric. There's nothing lacking. 426 00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:34.279 The local bishop has just as much spirit as the 427 00:27:34.359 --> 00:27:39.359 dude in Rome. There's no layers. This is not a 428 00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:42.559 chain of being where the pope is like closer up 429 00:27:42.640 --> 00:27:44.599 to the top of the chain of being, and all 430 00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:46.720 the rest of the podunk bishops out in the world 431 00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:50.240 are like way down. They're like they're floating there on, 432 00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:53.519 almost falling into non being on this big chain of 433 00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:56.920 being right up or closer to the absolute simplicity of 434 00:27:57.079 --> 00:28:02.640 perfect monad units or whatever it's to be. No, the 435 00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:08.759 power of Pentecost is fully present in the entirety of 436 00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:12.359 the church. Pentecost didn't hit Peter first and then spill 437 00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:15.920 out to everyone else. It just happened in the room 438 00:28:16.039 --> 00:28:19.079 to all of them. And if you remember what we 439 00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:21.599 said to Nick in the debate when Nick was bringing 440 00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:24.799 up all this stuff, every single statement that said to 441 00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:28.200 Peter is also said to all the other apostles. There's 442 00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:32.440 no indication that the other apostles only got that through Peter. 443 00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:38.200 Did Jesus say, Peter, I breathe on you, now breathe 444 00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:42.160 on them. No, he breathed on all of them. And again, 445 00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:46.079 this is the Apostolic model of the college, the collegiality, 446 00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:51.759 the college of the apostles. Look, for example, two chapters. 447 00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:57.680 After the statement of Matthew sixteen, Jesus says, surely, I 448 00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:00.279 say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be 449 00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:02.160 bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will 450 00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:05.079 be loose in heaven. He's not talking to Peter, He's 451 00:29:05.079 --> 00:29:07.160 talking to the whole all of them. And he says, 452 00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:08.519 and I say to you that if two of you 453 00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:11.079 agree on earth concerning anything, my Father will do it 454 00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:16.039 for you. So this is actually a promise of answered 455 00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:20.200 prayer and binding and loosing. Yes, it does apply to 456 00:29:20.200 --> 00:29:22.599 the episcopate, but it also, in a way applies to 457 00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:25.799 all of the body. And what the Roman charaturist does 458 00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:30.920 is restrict this, in this bizarre legalistic pharisical Talmudik way, 459 00:29:31.640 --> 00:29:34.160 to only the guy in Rome and only the people 460 00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:39.559 who are under him. But whether it's breathing on the 461 00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:43.160 entire apostles, the College of the Apostles, and saying whoever 462 00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:45.440 sends you remit, they're remitted, whoever sends you retain, they retained, 463 00:29:46.279 --> 00:29:49.920 Or whether it's the ability to sit on thrones and judge, 464 00:29:50.440 --> 00:29:52.599 does he say that's only in reference to Peter, and 465 00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:54.240 who Peter gives it to. No, he says that you 466 00:29:54.319 --> 00:29:57.440 will all right. At the last submer says you will 467 00:29:57.480 --> 00:30:04.359 all sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes. When 468 00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:08.359 we look at the new Jerusalem in heaven, does it 469 00:30:08.440 --> 00:30:12.880 have one cornerstone? No, it has twelve, because it's a 470 00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:17.640 cube with twelve foundation stones upon which are all the 471 00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:22.079 twelve apostles. Okay, it doesn't just say, it's not like 472 00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:24.960 one little Peter block and then everything kind of stacked 473 00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:28.359 on top of Peter. And if you remember the famous 474 00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:31.279 prophecy I think was in Isaiah that Nick said this 475 00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:34.920 was about Peter. No, the New Testament interprets the prophecies 476 00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:36.799 of he who has the keys and opens and shut 477 00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:45.839 as Jesus and the apocalypse. It's not Peter. Now, in 478 00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:52.720 the process of the Church coming to need government and 479 00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:56.880 to set up government, they modeled it on Everybody knows this. 480 00:30:56.920 --> 00:30:58.880 Even the Roman Catholics know this. They admit this. It's 481 00:30:58.920 --> 00:31:02.559 modeled on the Old Testament. Sure, and this model on 482 00:31:02.599 --> 00:31:10.680 the Old Testament in the method of levite priest or 483 00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:13.799 excuse me, yeah, levite priest high priest. Right, so there's 484 00:31:13.799 --> 00:31:18.559 only one high priest and he is in Jerusalem, and 485 00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:21.160 then you have levitees priests and levit. 486 00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:24.839 Chad Mode is your ultimate natural pre workout designed to 487 00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:28.440 take your performance to the next level. Chad Mode is 488 00:31:28.519 --> 00:31:32.160 for natty beast alphas only. 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Chad 527 00:33:56.359 --> 00:33:58.640 Mode has been flying off the shelves because it's the 528 00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:02.920 first of its kind, certified for Alpha or Sigma males only. 529 00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:05.839 Do not buy if you are a Beta, we will 530 00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:06.720 refund your money. 531 00:34:06.920 --> 00:34:09.960 It's under that right. So you have deacon priest or 532 00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:19.000 present her and episcops episcopate. So the model there, you 533 00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:21.000 can already see what they're own. Catholic does they say? 534 00:34:21.079 --> 00:34:21.239 Oh? 535 00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:25.400 Yes, see the High Priest is the pope. He matches 536 00:34:25.480 --> 00:34:28.840 up to the High Priest and the Old Testament. What 537 00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:32.760 does Hebrews say? Hebrew says that the fulfillment of the 538 00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:36.079 High priest is not There's nothing mentioned at all about 539 00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:38.840 Peter fulfilling the role the high priest. Jesus fulfills the 540 00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:41.400 role high priest. You see, what I'm getting at is 541 00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:45.440 that in Orthodox theology there's a real sense in which 542 00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:48.519 because we are the body, and every single lay member 543 00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:51.360 is fully a member of the body and fully participates 544 00:34:51.679 --> 00:34:57.039 in this experience of Pentecosts through chris mation, Chrismation is 545 00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:00.599 each person's personal Pentecost. What's the point of christ Nation, 546 00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:04.639 your personal Pentecost if you can't be led into and 547 00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:10.480 know the truth and know the Spirit. What did Jesus say, 548 00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:13.199 I will send you the Spirit and he will guide 549 00:35:13.239 --> 00:35:15.880 you into all truth? Is that just a statement to Peter, No, 550 00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:21.800 it's a statement to the all the Apostolic college there. So, 551 00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:24.760 what I'm getting at is that it's not by accident. 552 00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:27.039 At the same point in time where there is a 553 00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:31.599 massive division on the question of the Holy Spirit, in 554 00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:35.639 confusion over the hyposthetic origin the Spirit, his eternal manifestation, 555 00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:39.559 and his economic sending, it's not accidental that that's the 556 00:35:39.639 --> 00:35:43.360 same period in which we have the other aberrations, such 557 00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:48.920 as the rise of the papal supremacy, universal God Emperor doctrines, 558 00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:52.440 especially under the period of the Franks. I mean the 559 00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:58.159 papacy goes into it goes to Avignon, France, the See 560 00:35:58.280 --> 00:36:01.559 of Peter in Avignon, France for one hundred years almost, 561 00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:04.400 and three different guys are claiming to be the pope 562 00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:07.559 in France. And you think that there's nothing to the 563 00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:11.599 Frankish thesis, Give me a break. Obviously it's a tool 564 00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:17.079 of political power. Oh but wait a minute, Wait a minute, 565 00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:18.840 you were gonna you were going to say that that 566 00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:25.800 orthodoxy was a tool of imperial power. Wait a minute here, 567 00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:28.880 that's actually a problem for any church ever in history. 568 00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:33.039 The claim to be a church is dealing with political power, 569 00:36:33.079 --> 00:36:37.719 and so instead of cesero papism, you just have paper cicerism. Right, 570 00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:43.159 Charlemagne and the Franks and the Carolinian theologians specifically, they 571 00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:46.000 begin to make changes, such as the movement away from 572 00:36:46.039 --> 00:36:50.039 the stat from icons to statuary. Not that I'm making 573 00:36:50.119 --> 00:36:51.719 a huge deal about that, but the point is that 574 00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:54.400 this is where you start to see marketed differences. Right, 575 00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:57.760 the selivent only clergy, if you're not aware of it. 576 00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:00.159 The Council of Trollo, which is accepted it and I 577 00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:04.400 see it too, affirms married clergy and the West surprise 578 00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:08.599 rejected it at this point. Now their response is that, yeah, 579 00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:11.320 but we don't care what councils say, it's only what 580 00:37:11.480 --> 00:37:15.199 the Pope says. So ecumenical council once again doesn't really 581 00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:18.559 mean anything except rather just what the Pope confirms. Right, 582 00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:22.320 And we're going to get to the objections. I know 583 00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:24.119 what you're going to say. You're gonna say, yeah, but 584 00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:26.000 but you don't have any way to know the difference 585 00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:29.239 between a true council and a false council. Basic bitch argument. Dude. 586 00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:31.880 I'm going to settle that for you. That's nothing, that's 587 00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:35.559 not that's a dumb objection. Before we get to that, 588 00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:42.320 we're going to talk about the rise of Snodl church government, right, 589 00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:44.960 because first of all, we don't think that the church 590 00:37:45.079 --> 00:37:49.159 requires ecumenical councils to be governed. No, it doesn't. There 591 00:37:49.239 --> 00:37:51.599 was no ecumenical council for the first three hundred years 592 00:37:51.800 --> 00:37:55.440 the church is being persecuted. Were their councils? Yeah? There were? 593 00:37:56.159 --> 00:37:59.440 Were they binding? Yes? They were? You see, So it's 594 00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:03.920 the the wrong mindset. It's the Protestant Catholic dialectic mindset 595 00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:07.400 to approach church history and church government from the vantage 596 00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:09.840 point of Well, I only care about what's infallible and 597 00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:14.400 what's not infallible. That's all that matters. Is your council 598 00:38:14.440 --> 00:38:16.559 in follim or No, that's not the attitude. Do you 599 00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:20.039 see the church fathers when they discuss the Council of 600 00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:23.920 Gangra or the regional councils of Africa or whatever. Are 601 00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:26.239 they just sitting there saying, oh, what's infallible? What has 602 00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:28.400 the pope be creed? No, they talk about them as 603 00:38:28.840 --> 00:38:37.039 authoritative because they were Orthodox bishops, Orthodox Catholic bishops. Okay, Now, 604 00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:42.000 yes there are situations where false councils would arise, but 605 00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:43.760 again we're going to get that in a minute. Before 606 00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:45.079 we get to that, though, we want to look at 607 00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:49.559 the model of the church government that arises in Acts fifteen. 608 00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:53.599 And keep in mind too, before I talk about Ax fifteen, 609 00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:59.880 remember that the papacy is the supposedly the final are 610 00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:03.599 okay on the questions of certitude and authority in the 611 00:39:03.639 --> 00:39:08.519 Romancalolic system, Right, it's the final arbiter. What's the basis 612 00:39:08.599 --> 00:39:14.679 for this claim? Well, they'll say Matthew sixteen. So the 613 00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:19.400 basis for the papacy is Matthew sixteen. Yes, And how 614 00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:21.679 do we know that Matthew wrote Matthew and that's supposed 615 00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:24.719 to be a canonical gospel. Well, because the Church confirmed 616 00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:31.039 by tradition Matthew's gospel. So the papacy is vindicated by 617 00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:35.000 Matthew sixteen, and Matthew sixteen is vindicated by the papacy. 618 00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:40.000 This is a circle. This is a circle here. Now 619 00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:42.000 you say, well, I wait a minute, Jay, you talk 620 00:39:42.039 --> 00:39:46.480 about transcendental arguments. Those are circles right at ultimate paradigm 621 00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:50.000 level argumentation. That's circular. Jay, You're being inconsistent because you 622 00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:52.760 make circular arguments all the time at the level of 623 00:39:53.360 --> 00:39:57.639 worldviews and paradigms. Yes, I do, because I don't believe 624 00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:03.239 in the epistemology of the Roman Catholic system, which forbids circularity. 625 00:40:04.599 --> 00:40:10.239 The Roman Catholic scheme, it's epistemology, it's anthropology, it's tomistic 626 00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:13.960 system adopted generally. And what we see in Denzinger and 627 00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:16.639 what we see in Aught or any of those Roman 628 00:40:16.719 --> 00:40:21.440 Catholic dogmatic statements is a classical foundationalist of pistemology. And 629 00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:24.000 there's no disputing that. There's absolutely no question. I mean, 630 00:40:24.079 --> 00:40:28.760 that's absolutely the kind of epistemology that Aquinas teaches. For example, 631 00:40:28.840 --> 00:40:31.360 he does not adhere to any kind of a priori 632 00:40:31.480 --> 00:40:34.840 argument for the existence of God. When he talks about 633 00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:39.719 he cites the ontological argument, and he says in assuming 634 00:40:39.800 --> 00:40:43.599 when he cites Anselm, he refutes it. He argues against asel, 635 00:40:43.719 --> 00:40:46.719 and he says that faith is over here in the 636 00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:49.800 realm of science, and knowledge is over here. Now they 637 00:40:49.840 --> 00:40:53.000 do overlap, but they're two different realms. So knowing thing 638 00:40:53.480 --> 00:40:58.000 knowing things according to natural reasoning and science that has 639 00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:02.199 a level of certitude, because it's in heracle that issues 640 00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:06.880 of faith don't have the same kind of levels of 641 00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:10.239 certitude authority. No person who believes in a transitional argument 642 00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:15.039 can hold that because a transcendental argument, and that type 643 00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:19.519 of argument is premised on the rejection of classical foundationalists epistemology, 644 00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:25.320 because it doesn't work. It's circular, and it wouldn't be 645 00:41:25.480 --> 00:41:32.000 that way if that view didn't exclude circularity. But every 646 00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:36.280 one of them will say, we believe in the laws 647 00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:40.800 of logic, grounding foundational maxims that are self evident. Right, 648 00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:45.079 these things are certain, that's the stuff we know. This 649 00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:49.559 other stuff, this theology stuff, revelation. We might can have 650 00:41:49.719 --> 00:41:52.639 a reasonable certitude about those things. But what we know 651 00:41:52.840 --> 00:41:58.119 with more certainty is things like classical foundational axioms, laws 652 00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:01.679 of logic, law of non country, law of identity. This 653 00:42:01.880 --> 00:42:05.599 is why they have a problem with not submitting their 654 00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:09.880 doctrine of simplicity to revelation, and instead they start with 655 00:42:10.599 --> 00:42:16.159 philosophic simplicity, definitional philosophic simplicity according to what Aristotle says 656 00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:20.920 must be, not according to what Moses and Exodus right 657 00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:24.400 and up into the gospels. Not what they say about simplicity, 658 00:42:24.559 --> 00:42:27.440 not what simplicity is according to Saint Paul, or the 659 00:42:27.559 --> 00:42:30.920 inner gaya of the spirit, the operations and energies of 660 00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:33.960 the spirit distribute the gifts of the spirit. Right, that 661 00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:38.119 would mean a distinction between essence and energy. Right. So no, 662 00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:43.000 it has to be read and retooled and reformulated according 663 00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:47.559 to hellenic simplicity. And every one of them who ends 664 00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:50.519 up debating me at length about this issue eventually says 665 00:42:50.599 --> 00:42:52.960 that you can't have a distinction in God that's real, 666 00:42:53.039 --> 00:42:55.719 because that would be a violation of accidents and substance, 667 00:42:55.760 --> 00:43:00.760 and God has no accidents. Yeah, but we're not what 668 00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:05.760 simplicity is on Aristotle's definition, or mimi and IDEs definition, 669 00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:11.199 or Aquinas quoting both Aristotle and Miamides, or Aquinus quoting 670 00:43:11.440 --> 00:43:14.000 just Aristotle throughout the first few questions of the cinema 671 00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:17.760 about God's simplicity. And again watch them all. They're gonna run, 672 00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:19.559 They're gonna go crazy and take everything inside out of 673 00:43:19.599 --> 00:43:25.039 context because they can't follow a simple argument. I mean, 674 00:43:25.079 --> 00:43:28.800 the stuff is complex, but the argument itself is quite simple, right, 675 00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:32.400 which is that, why are you deriving what simplicity means 676 00:43:32.719 --> 00:43:37.519 from Aristotle or from Plato or from the Monad Because 677 00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:39.960 that's not what the Church fathers did. In fact, Basil 678 00:43:40.039 --> 00:43:44.719 went to great links to argue against hellenic philosophic simplicity. 679 00:43:44.920 --> 00:43:49.400 Read the refutations of the Unomians. When the Church Fathers 680 00:43:49.480 --> 00:43:53.039 argue against the unuimions, they say, you're using Hellenic philosophic 681 00:43:53.159 --> 00:44:00.960 simplicity that we don't adhere to. When Saint Max disputes 682 00:44:01.039 --> 00:44:04.239 with purists, he says the same point. He says, you're 683 00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:07.679 using dialectics from the philosophers and not going by what 684 00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:16.639 the gospels say, because revelation is what's certain, that's more 685 00:44:16.760 --> 00:44:21.320 certain than the laws of logic. In fact, the laws 686 00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:25.760 of logic are grounded on revelation. That's the transcendental argument. 687 00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:29.679 It's the other way around. In Tomism. The laws of 688 00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:33.360 logic certitude about mathematical principles, these kinds of things that's 689 00:44:33.440 --> 00:44:37.119 more certain, and then you have these other things like 690 00:44:37.239 --> 00:44:41.159 revelation that we can we can maybe tack on persons, right, 691 00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:44.360 it will establish the existence of one supreme super essence. 692 00:44:44.760 --> 00:44:47.800 This is what volume one, assuming the Countragentelis, does and 693 00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:49.480 then in the next volume he moves on to say, 694 00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:52.000 all right, let's tack the persons onto that. No, no, no, 695 00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:54.320 that's not how it goes. That's not how it goes. 696 00:44:54.440 --> 00:44:59.199 It's revealed that God is Father and personal. First, we 697 00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:03.239 don't start with us. It's of God. I believe in 698 00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:07.239 one God, the Father Almighty, as the Creed says. So 699 00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:10.519 with that in mind, we can now see why it's 700 00:45:10.599 --> 00:45:14.079 in our scheme. Circularity is not a problem because we 701 00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:21.119 recognize at fundamental paradigmatic level circularity is inevitable. But on 702 00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:25.519 the Roman Catholic scheme, you're not supposed to be circular. 703 00:45:25.639 --> 00:45:32.519 It's a violation of classical foundationalist reasoning and logic. And yes, 704 00:45:32.559 --> 00:45:36.480 that's somewhat anachronistic because classical foundationalism is the term that 705 00:45:36.599 --> 00:45:40.360 comes centuries after a quitnas. It doesn't matter, it describes 706 00:45:40.440 --> 00:45:43.760 the same idea, the same principle. I remember debating a 707 00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:46.519 Dominican once and he said, he said, the laws of 708 00:45:46.599 --> 00:45:50.519 logic are what are certain? The teachings of revelation are 709 00:45:50.920 --> 00:45:53.639 maybe ninety percent certain, maybe eighty percent certain. Do you 710 00:45:53.719 --> 00:45:58.239 see the stupid stupidity of this view? Any knowing atheist 711 00:45:58.360 --> 00:46:02.760 would point out, any clever atheists would point out that 712 00:46:03.159 --> 00:46:06.159 how is your God the true God when something like 713 00:46:06.199 --> 00:46:08.639 the laws of logic, which in your worldview are actually 714 00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:12.719 based on him, are more certain than him. That's dumb, 715 00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:23.960 That's stupid. If God exists, he is the basis for 716 00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:28.480 the laws of logic, Okay, then he's the presupposition of 717 00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:30.960 the laws of logic, not the other way around. The 718 00:46:31.079 --> 00:46:33.360 laws of logic aren't a God that we then subject 719 00:46:33.679 --> 00:46:38.199 God to. It's the other way around. And that's why 720 00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:40.800 when you understand what I'm saying, and then you go 721 00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:43.519 and look at what Paul says in Act seventeen, Oh, 722 00:46:43.800 --> 00:46:48.920 you realize he's not saying classical apologetics. He's saying what 723 00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:54.119 Jay says. He says, Greeks, your religion is foolishness, right, 724 00:46:54.599 --> 00:46:59.599 the wisdom of this world is certain. Paul says, no, no, no, no. 725 00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:02.079 You just said the wisdom of this world is certain 726 00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:04.679 and reasonable and rational, and then we tack on revelation 727 00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:07.039 on top of it with whatever kind of word. No, no, no, 728 00:47:07.320 --> 00:47:12.639 the wisdom of this world is foolishness. Does that mean 729 00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:16.360 Plato or Aristotle can't say true things. No, it's nothing 730 00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:18.400 to do with whether they make true or false statements 731 00:47:18.400 --> 00:47:21.360 at times. Has everything to do with the ultimate grounding 732 00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:25.079 of our authority and our belief systems, and that ultimate 733 00:47:25.119 --> 00:47:32.920 grounding and authority is Aerosol's metaphysics. No, it's revelation. Let 734 00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:36.199 me give another example. In Fulton Sheen's book Life of Christ. 735 00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:40.280 He begins the book I remember reading that many years ago, 736 00:47:40.280 --> 00:47:41.920 and I thought this would be good, This would be good. 737 00:47:43.159 --> 00:47:46.400 He begins the book by saying, I'm not kidding, and 738 00:47:46.480 --> 00:47:51.679 now I'm going for memory. So if you obsessive Roman 739 00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:54.000 Catholics out there, if you find one word that I 740 00:47:54.119 --> 00:47:58.239 misquote going from memory ten years ago, that's not going 741 00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:02.199 to work to go crazy have a victory parade. But 742 00:48:02.360 --> 00:48:04.519 going from memory what he says, and every Roman Catholic 743 00:48:04.559 --> 00:48:06.800 who talks about the Gospels will say this very there's 744 00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:09.000 a lecture work. Scott Hans says the exact same thing. 745 00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:12.440 I remember, this comes to mind any kind of Peter 746 00:48:12.559 --> 00:48:17.079 Kreeft typical apologetic manuals. They're not going to differ. They're 747 00:48:17.119 --> 00:48:18.800 going to say, if we say, how do we know 748 00:48:18.960 --> 00:48:23.039 that the scriptures are inspired? How can we know if 749 00:48:23.320 --> 00:48:28.800 revelation found in scripture is actually inspired? Fultensten starts off 750 00:48:28.840 --> 00:48:31.639 by saying, we don't come to the Bible with any 751 00:48:31.719 --> 00:48:38.480 presubpositions of divine inspiration, certitude, infallibility, or authority. We treat 752 00:48:38.559 --> 00:48:41.480 the Bible like any other book in the world, and 753 00:48:41.639 --> 00:48:46.639 we apply the neutral scientific methods of textual research and 754 00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:51.440 higher criticism, and we can come to a reasonable conclusion that, 755 00:48:51.639 --> 00:48:56.639 with a large degree of certitude, it's highly probable that 756 00:48:56.800 --> 00:49:05.000 the Bible and its texts are very likely inspired. What now, 757 00:49:05.719 --> 00:49:09.480 what does in revelation itself? Right? We all let's take 758 00:49:09.519 --> 00:49:11.440 some text that we all agree on, right, like the 759 00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:17.960 Bible or the Gospel of Matthew, for example, the be Attitudes. 760 00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:23.400 Does Jesus say that, no, he says, Heaven and earth 761 00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:28.480 will pass away, but my words won't pass away. And 762 00:49:28.840 --> 00:49:31.679 he says, truly, I say that not one jot or 763 00:49:31.760 --> 00:49:34.880 tittle will pass away from the law until all things 764 00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:42.760 are fulfilled. In other words, scripture and what's revealed is 765 00:49:42.880 --> 00:49:49.119 the pre eminent authority, even over your reasoning, even over 766 00:49:49.320 --> 00:49:56.960 your academic sciences. Now, the academic sciences can do great 767 00:49:57.039 --> 00:50:01.639 things to vindicate all kinds of the scripture, and anybody 768 00:50:01.639 --> 00:50:04.840 who doesn't understand that or that I say that, is 769 00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:07.840 just completely confused. Of course it can't. But we're not 770 00:50:07.960 --> 00:50:14.400 talking about the production of evidentiary justifications or the aid 771 00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:20.400 of evidentiary pieces of evidence. We're talking about the certitude 772 00:50:20.440 --> 00:50:23.480 at the most fundamental level. Right, So we're saying that 773 00:50:23.800 --> 00:50:26.079 the revelation is really the grounding here. And even the 774 00:50:26.159 --> 00:50:28.480 Roman Catholic system when it says that the papacy has 775 00:50:28.559 --> 00:50:32.039 proven from Matthew eighteen, even that is admitting that really 776 00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:36.800 this is coming from revelation, right, Okay, And then how 777 00:50:36.840 --> 00:50:38.599 do we know, according to Fulton Sheen and all the 778 00:50:38.679 --> 00:50:43.159 other classical apologists in that Goofy system, how do we 779 00:50:43.239 --> 00:50:45.079 know that these things are true? Well, we apply the 780 00:50:45.159 --> 00:50:49.320 sciences of textual studies and research. No no, no, no, no, no, 781 00:50:49.719 --> 00:50:51.960 we don't. Now again, I'm not saying you can't do 782 00:50:52.039 --> 00:50:55.559 textual studies, but textual studies don't give you the certitude 783 00:50:55.559 --> 00:51:01.880 that you're seeking. Does revelation of itself that way? You see, 784 00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:04.880 we're at the point of revelation as our final authority, 785 00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:10.400 and what can it appeal to. It can only appeal 786 00:51:10.440 --> 00:51:14.199 to itself. There's no other authority that God's going to 787 00:51:14.280 --> 00:51:18.639 appeal to to vindicate God. So at a fundamental, basic level, 788 00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:25.360 it's self referencing. And the mind of the classical foundationalist 789 00:51:25.400 --> 00:51:29.079 says that that's crazy, that doesn't work because that's circular. Yeah. Bro, 790 00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:32.480 all world views are circular at base. That's the point. 791 00:51:33.199 --> 00:51:36.039 Because every position, whether you're an atheist or whether you're 792 00:51:36.039 --> 00:51:38.840 a Muslim, or whether you whatever you are, cult doesn't matter. 793 00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:44.960 You are grounding foundations are going to be circular. At 794 00:51:45.079 --> 00:51:47.920 some point, they will be self referencing. This is what 795 00:51:48.119 --> 00:51:54.280 no Tomas can grasp because a self evident maxim like 796 00:51:55.079 --> 00:51:58.599 the law of non contradiction. Okay, it's fine to talk 797 00:51:58.639 --> 00:52:01.480 about that as self evident a certain way, but even 798 00:52:01.519 --> 00:52:04.760 a self evident maxim doesn't make any sense apart from 799 00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:08.039 being grounded in a world where self evident maxims are 800 00:52:08.119 --> 00:52:13.599 even possible, namely in a Christian world. So self evident maxims, 801 00:52:13.599 --> 00:52:17.559 the laws of logic are transcendental proofs of the God 802 00:52:17.599 --> 00:52:21.320 of the Bible. They're grounded in Him. They don't exist 803 00:52:21.440 --> 00:52:26.239 on their own. They're not autonomous. Man's reasoning is not autonomous. 804 00:52:26.280 --> 00:52:29.960 It doesn't have the ability to figure out the mysteries 805 00:52:29.960 --> 00:52:33.880 of the universe apart from divine grace and revelation. Now, 806 00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:37.559 it can get some things right, right. I mean, when 807 00:52:37.639 --> 00:52:41.079 an unbeliever discovers something true about earthworms and he says, oh, 808 00:52:41.159 --> 00:52:44.360 this proves dorminism. Okay, so maybe he's figured out something 809 00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:46.960 true about the earthworm, but that doesn't prove his whole worldview. 810 00:52:49.039 --> 00:52:51.920 It also doesn't prove that natural reasoning can prove that 811 00:52:51.960 --> 00:52:56.760 there's a super simple, generic substance that's crazy. No, it can't, 812 00:52:57.360 --> 00:52:59.440 and even if it did, that's not God. I am 813 00:52:59.519 --> 00:53:03.559 not joined with the Jehovah's witness in doing apologetics. We 814 00:53:03.679 --> 00:53:07.360 don't have the same God. There's not a common apologetic 815 00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:11.119 argument between a Jehovah's witness and a scientology proponent and me. 816 00:53:12.280 --> 00:53:15.440 But in the Roman Catholic scheme. There is you're doing 817 00:53:15.480 --> 00:53:18.679 the same apologetics of all the other world religions that 818 00:53:18.760 --> 00:53:23.440 believe in an absolutely simple super essence. That's not our God. 819 00:53:24.079 --> 00:53:26.480 That's not our God. Our God is I am that, 820 00:53:26.599 --> 00:53:31.559 I am personal, I am he, I am I is 821 00:53:31.719 --> 00:53:35.360 he is personal. It's not I am essence, I am it, 822 00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:40.159 I am super super essential, super moanad. I am he 823 00:53:40.920 --> 00:53:49.159 he Father personal He. Thus we come back to the 824 00:53:49.239 --> 00:53:55.960 question of revelation. It's not settled or known by human autonomy. 825 00:53:56.360 --> 00:54:00.360 Human autonomy does not put We don't put God's relation 826 00:54:00.519 --> 00:54:04.480 there and say I the human court of rationality and 827 00:54:04.599 --> 00:54:08.159 higher critical reasoning, we put God's word on trial. We 828 00:54:08.280 --> 00:54:11.159 put revelation on trial today, and we will see if 829 00:54:11.199 --> 00:54:15.199 it matches up to our human reasoning capacities. And guess 830 00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:17.920 what in the history of this approach, where do you 831 00:54:17.960 --> 00:54:21.480 think it led directly to higher criticism? And what do 832 00:54:21.519 --> 00:54:28.000 you think higher criticism came up with. We have judged guilty. 833 00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:31.159 You are guilty of fraud. This is not the word 834 00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:34.360 of God. This is the word of men. Our reasoning 835 00:54:34.440 --> 00:54:37.199 and our higher critical standards have determined this because we 836 00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:40.880 judged it on the basis of neutral facts, neutral reasoning, 837 00:54:41.159 --> 00:54:45.960 neutral logic, neutral laws have shown this to be completely inadequate. 838 00:54:46.639 --> 00:54:51.280 That's what happened in history, Dude. Why did that happen 839 00:54:51.320 --> 00:54:55.840 in history? Well, because, first of all, the entire approach 840 00:54:56.199 --> 00:55:01.000 is wrong. There are no neutral laws of logic. There 841 00:55:01.039 --> 00:55:06.840 are no neutral reasoning approaches because men aren't neutral. They 842 00:55:06.920 --> 00:55:12.239 are either in rebellion against God or seeking God right 843 00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:15.599 Romans one. The whole world has fallen into idolatry and 844 00:55:15.719 --> 00:55:19.519 is in rebellion against God, according to Romans one, and 845 00:55:19.679 --> 00:55:23.000 so none of them are neutral, none of them, No 846 00:55:23.159 --> 00:55:29.639 human beings are neutral. Romans three. There's no neutrality. If 847 00:55:29.679 --> 00:55:33.280 an unbeliever discovers something true, it's in spite of his unbelief. 848 00:55:33.320 --> 00:55:35.719 When we were debating with that pagan guy, all of 849 00:55:35.800 --> 00:55:38.719 his objective truths and principles are what he wants out 850 00:55:38.840 --> 00:55:41.679 that come from Christianity, but he doesn't want the Christianity 851 00:55:41.719 --> 00:55:43.679 also wants all this pagan nonsense on top of it. 852 00:55:46.440 --> 00:55:48.800 So if he does things that are true and good 853 00:55:48.840 --> 00:55:52.960 and right, it's in spite of his unbelief. In the 854 00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:59.239 same way logic, the laws of logic are theory laden. 855 00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:03.119 They don't operate independently. They don't operate on their own. 856 00:56:03.559 --> 00:56:07.559 They're not abstract and personal principles that float around just 857 00:56:07.719 --> 00:56:11.719 there by which we then judge God. If God doesn't exist, 858 00:56:12.079 --> 00:56:16.000 there are no laws of logic. There are no objective principles. 859 00:56:16.280 --> 00:56:20.440 They only make sense if God exists. It's a complete 860 00:56:20.920 --> 00:56:24.639 reorientation of your thought process. You have to reorient your 861 00:56:24.679 --> 00:56:29.519 thought process. You can't say Jesus is Lord and then 862 00:56:29.599 --> 00:56:31.519 turn around and say, oh, but not in the areas 863 00:56:31.639 --> 00:56:34.840 of textual criticism, and not in the areas of how 864 00:56:34.920 --> 00:56:39.159 we vindicate and look at the scriptures. You don't believe 865 00:56:39.239 --> 00:56:42.119 that he's lord. There is he lord over textual criticism too? 866 00:56:43.679 --> 00:56:45.679 Is he lord of the laws of logic? I remember 867 00:56:45.679 --> 00:56:49.079 when I asked that Dominican guy that he was like, what, 868 00:56:50.679 --> 00:56:54.719 I don't even understand. You're talking about the laws of logic. 869 00:56:54.760 --> 00:56:57.519 It is more certain than revelation. Is Jesus the lord 870 00:56:57.519 --> 00:56:59.880 of laws? Of the laws of logic? Do they not 871 00:57:00.079 --> 00:57:01.400 arise from him? 872 00:57:01.480 --> 00:57:09.199 As the logos not logos logoss low gosh, the loah gosh, 873 00:57:09.559 --> 00:57:12.239 the law goss logos. 874 00:57:19.760 --> 00:57:21.800 The laws of law of logic are not equal to 875 00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:27.440 the personal logos. They are reflections of the logi, the 876 00:57:27.559 --> 00:57:37.199 uncreated logi. They are examples exemplars, but they're not the 877 00:57:37.320 --> 00:57:39.960 exact same thing as the logos, because the logos is 878 00:57:40.039 --> 00:57:43.800 not an impersonal force that permeates the universe, like the 879 00:57:43.880 --> 00:57:46.840 Stoics and like Marcus Aurelius, and like all these are 880 00:57:46.880 --> 00:57:50.360 the Greeks said, did the Greeks talk about this idea? 881 00:57:50.440 --> 00:57:52.880 And is John appealing to that? Yeah, he's appealing to that, 882 00:57:53.119 --> 00:57:55.960 but he's appealing to that on the basis of the 883 00:57:56.039 --> 00:58:03.320 wisdom texts in Solomon wisdom. The logos that's out there 884 00:58:03.320 --> 00:58:05.679 in the world that the Greeks are looking for is 885 00:58:05.840 --> 00:58:09.760 the wisdom that Solomon's talking about in Proverbs one through ten. 886 00:58:11.800 --> 00:58:17.679 You see, when we understand that Christ is the source 887 00:58:17.719 --> 00:58:20.239 of these things, that Christ is the lord of logic, 888 00:58:20.840 --> 00:58:23.639 that the wisdom that exists anywhere in the world is 889 00:58:23.800 --> 00:58:27.039 ultimately His, then you have the right attitude to understand 890 00:58:27.280 --> 00:58:27.880 that there's not. 891 00:58:30.119 --> 00:58:30.159 That. 892 00:58:30.599 --> 00:58:34.159 If Plato said something true, and you did at times, 893 00:58:34.920 --> 00:58:39.280 it's because of the Logos in him, Jesus in him. 894 00:58:39.559 --> 00:58:41.559 Now does that mean he participated in theosis? I'm not 895 00:58:41.639 --> 00:58:44.599 saying that. No. But Paul says that the word is 896 00:58:44.760 --> 00:58:47.920 near you, even in your heart. Christ is present in 897 00:58:48.079 --> 00:58:51.280 some way in every single human being because they're meaning 898 00:58:52.559 --> 00:58:56.480 their logi. The logos of each person, of each thing 899 00:58:58.239 --> 00:59:01.079 is from Him because all things are made through him. 900 00:59:01.800 --> 00:59:04.400 He owns all things, they're all his. They all have 901 00:59:04.480 --> 00:59:08.719 their meaning in him. Logic has its meaning in him, 902 00:59:09.880 --> 00:59:13.280 not independently of him. It's not neutral. There's no neutrality, 903 00:59:14.400 --> 00:59:17.440 and that's what they can't grasp because once they grasp 904 00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:21.679 there's no neutrality, they would be forced to our position. 905 00:59:23.440 --> 00:59:25.480 So let's bring it back then to the papacy. Let's 906 00:59:25.519 --> 00:59:32.960 come back to Rome and the vishop. So with this 907 00:59:33.159 --> 00:59:37.719 in mind, we start to understand that, like the video 908 00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:39.480 that I just put up, thank you to Lewis for 909 00:59:39.599 --> 00:59:51.079 pulling that out that epistemically, in terms of epistemology, knowing things, certitude, 910 00:59:51.159 --> 00:59:55.559 knowing religious beliefs, having certainty about religious beliefs, it makes 911 00:59:55.599 --> 00:59:59.960 absolutely no sense to say the confession that we have theological, 912 01:00:00.199 --> 01:00:02.320 and many of those points where Mechalics do confess with 913 01:00:02.400 --> 01:00:05.039 us theologically, they'll say, yeah, Jesus Lord, yes, I believe 914 01:00:05.079 --> 01:00:07.440 in the sovereignty of God, I believe in providence. I 915 01:00:07.519 --> 01:00:11.840 believe that logical truths ultimately have their grounding in God. 916 01:00:12.079 --> 01:00:14.679 But then they turn around and they don't. They're not 917 01:00:14.800 --> 01:00:17.559 consistent with it. They'll turn around and say, but there's 918 01:00:17.639 --> 01:00:20.480 neutrality in these things, right, I mean scientists are neutral. 919 01:00:21.360 --> 01:00:25.159 We approach the Bible with neutrality. No human being approaches 920 01:00:25.199 --> 01:00:29.719 the Bible with neutrality. According to Paul's very clear teaching, 921 01:00:30.119 --> 01:00:31.119 there is no neutrality. 922 01:00:33.360 --> 01:00:33.480 Right. 923 01:00:34.039 --> 01:00:39.840 You are either rebelling against God, child of unbelief, Paul says, 924 01:00:43.760 --> 01:00:51.400 practicing idolatry in some way, or you're on team Christ 925 01:00:51.719 --> 01:00:55.239 and seeking what's true. You're not. There's no middle ground, 926 01:00:55.320 --> 01:00:56.960 like I'm not gonna you know, I'm gonna be over 927 01:00:57.000 --> 01:01:00.519 here in the middle ground. Oh, the scientists, the scientists 928 01:01:00.559 --> 01:01:04.039 and the logicians have the privileged position of middle ground 929 01:01:04.119 --> 01:01:06.559 neutrality by which they can be the arbit No, they 930 01:01:06.599 --> 01:01:13.400 don't all beliefs, all propositions, they're all theory laden, they're 931 01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:18.360 all paradigmatic. They're all conditioned by the presupositions and the paradigm. 932 01:01:20.079 --> 01:01:22.920 That's why tomism doesn't work, not just in terms of 933 01:01:22.960 --> 01:01:27.159 absolute devienne simplicity, but in terms of epistemic systematic approaches. 934 01:01:27.960 --> 01:01:30.960 It's a wrong epistemology because it's a wrong anthropology. Why 935 01:01:31.039 --> 01:01:32.920 is it wrong because it doesn't believe in the news. 936 01:01:34.119 --> 01:01:37.039 They believe in a body and a soul, and half 937 01:01:37.079 --> 01:01:40.840 the time the soul is identified with the intellect in 938 01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:48.960 their anthropology. Hence why being studied is so important. Hence 939 01:01:49.000 --> 01:01:54.039 why Barleem rebuked Saint Gregory and said, your monks aren't studying, 940 01:01:54.400 --> 01:01:59.159 they're just praying. Yeah, but Paul said, the wisdom of 941 01:01:59.159 --> 01:02:01.639 this world is foolishness. And in all those chapters where 942 01:02:01.679 --> 01:02:04.960 Paul talks about his vision, Paul is talking about what 943 01:02:05.079 --> 01:02:07.960 Gregory is talking about. You see, So when you make 944 01:02:08.039 --> 01:02:10.440 fun of us and you mock the things that you 945 01:02:10.519 --> 01:02:13.559 don't understand, it's the very thing that Paul's talking about 946 01:02:13.840 --> 01:02:18.199 when he had his vision, when Paul was translated into 947 01:02:18.199 --> 01:02:23.119 the third heavens and saw the uncreated light, he's talking 948 01:02:23.199 --> 01:02:26.920 about the noose. And that's why Paul says, to pray 949 01:02:27.039 --> 01:02:29.119 in your body and your soul and in your spirit, 950 01:02:30.719 --> 01:02:34.559 in your nows. Noos is a faculty given to man 951 01:02:34.679 --> 01:02:38.920 by God for knowing God directly. Roman Callochs don't believe this. 952 01:02:39.039 --> 01:02:40.880 They've never believed that that It's not anywhere in their 953 01:02:40.920 --> 01:02:46.320 doctrine anywhere nowhere gone lost because it's a development that 954 01:02:46.400 --> 01:02:49.880 happened in the East. Now, because we believe that there 955 01:02:49.960 --> 01:02:52.920 is body, soul, and noose, we have a triparteipe view 956 01:02:52.960 --> 01:02:57.400 of man. We believe that the heart and the mind 957 01:02:57.559 --> 01:03:00.920 have to be working in harmony. Can't just have intellect. 958 01:03:01.280 --> 01:03:03.400 You can't just have a hamster wheel of intellect running 959 01:03:03.800 --> 01:03:06.079 trying to figure this stuff out, because it's not a science. 960 01:03:07.880 --> 01:03:12.920 It's an existential change and conversion that affects the whole 961 01:03:13.119 --> 01:03:18.559 being body, soul, and news, the whole being of man. 962 01:03:20.199 --> 01:03:25.199 And by soul we mean man's inner soul, his the 963 01:03:25.280 --> 01:03:32.000 seat of his desire, his heart and intellect right and 964 01:03:32.119 --> 01:03:34.719 then the news again being the faculty by which we 965 01:03:34.840 --> 01:03:37.400 know God directly. So we believe that in Eden, God 966 01:03:38.840 --> 01:03:42.840 created Adam with that faculty to know him directly. Now, 967 01:03:43.840 --> 01:03:46.800 after the fall, the noose of man is darkened. This 968 01:03:46.920 --> 01:03:50.000 is not Plato's news, not the same thing. Plato believes 969 01:03:50.039 --> 01:03:53.599 that the Trinity is some kind of weird monad diead 970 01:03:53.719 --> 01:03:57.119 triad noos that kind of like just happened. That's not what, 971 01:03:57.639 --> 01:04:00.800 has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Totally different. 972 01:04:03.440 --> 01:04:06.360 But in our view, if you don't understand that as 973 01:04:06.440 --> 01:04:10.400 part of the anthropology, then it makes no sense to you. 974 01:04:10.679 --> 01:04:14.519 Why as as Orthodox, we believe that you that you 975 01:04:14.599 --> 01:04:18.880 can know God directly, and here's where the Roman Catholical said. 976 01:04:18.920 --> 01:04:23.239 But if you know God directly, then then you're a Protestant. 977 01:04:23.320 --> 01:04:28.159 That's the Protestants say, Prota, the Holy Spirit guides you, 978 01:04:28.320 --> 01:04:30.840 and you know truth directly, and you don't need the pope. 979 01:04:31.320 --> 01:04:32.800 So it's just you and the Bible. You become your 980 01:04:32.800 --> 01:04:36.400 own pope. It's just you and you're sect over there. 981 01:04:36.440 --> 01:04:38.400 And there's a million popes as many popes as there 982 01:04:38.440 --> 01:04:43.400 are Protestants. Every Protestant is his own pope. Now what 983 01:04:43.519 --> 01:04:46.639 we say is these are two errors feeding off of 984 01:04:46.719 --> 01:04:49.159 one another. We don't believe either one of these, and 985 01:04:49.440 --> 01:04:52.880 the functioning of the church and the first millennium did 986 01:04:52.960 --> 01:04:59.079 not operate on either of these ways. Okay, So let 987 01:04:59.159 --> 01:05:16.960 me show you here and we will look at the 988 01:05:17.559 --> 01:05:23.800 famous quote from Now. I've read about six or seven 989 01:05:23.960 --> 01:05:28.320 of Ratzinger's books, so I'm not speaking from ignorance. Now Again, 990 01:05:28.440 --> 01:05:33.199 part of the reason that there might be some confusion 991 01:05:33.239 --> 01:05:35.880 about me just recalling from memory quotes, I have a 992 01:05:35.960 --> 01:05:38.639 really good memory so typically speaking, but yes, guess what, 993 01:05:38.719 --> 01:05:42.719 I'm not infallible in my memory, so sometimes I'll get 994 01:05:42.760 --> 01:05:51.480 things wrong, and I don't always remember every quote exactly correct, right, 995 01:05:52.440 --> 01:05:55.760 But typically speaking, the point that I'm making is not 996 01:05:58.360 --> 01:06:02.760 I'm right most of the points that I'm making. So 997 01:06:02.840 --> 01:06:05.719 we're gonna look at this Benedict quote here. We want 998 01:06:05.800 --> 01:06:17.360 to see what he says about the early Church, because 999 01:06:17.559 --> 01:06:20.159 we're pointing out here that the papacy again, is not 1000 01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:29.320 just a thing that that somehow magically solves questions. It's 1001 01:06:29.360 --> 01:06:33.039 a thing that kind of rows up over time. And 1002 01:06:33.159 --> 01:06:36.159 it helps to see that because then you understand our 1003 01:06:36.239 --> 01:06:39.079 vantage point. You understand that you don't you're not gonna 1004 01:06:39.119 --> 01:06:43.199 come to trying to understand orthodoxy with a Roman Catholic presupposition. 1005 01:06:43.400 --> 01:06:43.519 Right. 1006 01:06:43.599 --> 01:06:46.320 So this is why we've been talking about how ultimately 1007 01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:49.039 this isn't a question of epistemology. Then we're gonna look 1008 01:06:49.039 --> 01:06:50.559 at the councils and we're gonna look at how they 1009 01:06:50.639 --> 01:06:52.239 matter and why they matter. Oh and I got to 1010 01:06:52.280 --> 01:06:54.039 read the Acts fifteen to two. I forgot to do 1011 01:06:54.119 --> 01:06:58.280 that because this is the first council, right. The first 1012 01:06:58.440 --> 01:07:01.960 Synod is not nicea it's not Gangre or any of those. 1013 01:07:02.039 --> 01:07:07.199 It's actually Acts fifteen. Let's see what And I've read 1014 01:07:07.239 --> 01:07:10.119 this book. I've read against six or seven of Ratzinger's books. 1015 01:07:10.159 --> 01:07:12.960 I read this one back when I converted to Roman 1016 01:07:13.000 --> 01:07:17.960 Thossism a long time ago. Principles of Catholic Theology. He says, 1017 01:07:18.039 --> 01:07:22.800 against this background, we can now weigh the possibilities that 1018 01:07:22.880 --> 01:07:28.239 are open to Acumenism. The maximum demands on which the 1019 01:07:28.360 --> 01:07:34.800 search for unity must certainly founder are immediately clear. On 1020 01:07:34.880 --> 01:07:38.159 the part of the West, the maximum demand would be 1021 01:07:38.280 --> 01:07:40.440 that the East recognized the premacy of the Bishop of 1022 01:07:40.559 --> 01:07:46.159 Rome in the full scope of eighteen seventy Vatican One. Well, yeah, 1023 01:07:46.360 --> 01:07:48.960 that's Roman Catholic dogma. Right, of course, they have to 1024 01:07:49.039 --> 01:07:52.039 accept the full scope, and in so doing they would 1025 01:07:52.039 --> 01:07:55.840 submit in practice to the premiscy as is the Uniates accepted. Yeah, 1026 01:07:55.920 --> 01:07:59.599 that's why they are Uniates. On the part of the East, 1027 01:07:59.639 --> 01:08:02.880 the max demand would be the West declare the eighteen 1028 01:08:03.000 --> 01:08:07.199 seventy doctrine of premacy erroneous and in doing so submit 1029 01:08:07.280 --> 01:08:10.679 in practice to a supremacy such was accepted within the 1030 01:08:11.480 --> 01:08:14.079 WA's This removal of the philia, okay, the creed and 1031 01:08:14.159 --> 01:08:16.640 including the Marian dogmas of the nineteen twentieth century. As 1032 01:08:16.680 --> 01:08:21.119 regard Protestantism, the maximum demand of the Catholic Church would 1033 01:08:21.119 --> 01:08:25.680 be that the Protestant ecclesiastical ecclesiological ministers be regarded as 1034 01:08:25.760 --> 01:08:30.079 invalid and that process be converted to Catholicism. Yeah, because 1035 01:08:30.079 --> 01:08:33.520 that's what's always been the case, is that whichever position 1036 01:08:33.640 --> 01:08:35.960 is true, we know that it involves the conversion of 1037 01:08:36.079 --> 01:08:40.880 the heterodox. Now, while the first three maximum demands are 1038 01:08:41.520 --> 01:08:48.800 unanimously rejected by Christian consciousness, no they're not. They're rejected 1039 01:08:48.880 --> 01:08:55.119 in ecumenism. So Benedict doesn't believe Vatican one. He's searching 1040 01:08:55.199 --> 01:09:00.640 for a unity that we can all agree on that 1041 01:09:00.920 --> 01:09:09.359 doesn't reflect the maximum demands of Vatican One. It's a 1042 01:09:09.479 --> 01:09:12.920 no brainer that this is obviously not the teaching of 1043 01:09:13.000 --> 01:09:18.399 Vatican one. Yeah, exactly. Now let's get to one of 1044 01:09:18.479 --> 01:09:20.920 these other key key quotes are now and we're gonna 1045 01:09:20.960 --> 01:09:25.680 deal with the nonsense objections of and again, I have 1046 01:09:25.760 --> 01:09:27.640 read these books, and you can believe me or not. 1047 01:09:27.720 --> 01:09:29.840 I don't care whether you believe me. I know what 1048 01:09:30.039 --> 01:09:35.960 these books teach. I've read them. There's all kinds of 1049 01:09:36.079 --> 01:09:40.319 modernism in Benedict by the way, for the people who 1050 01:09:40.359 --> 01:09:43.760 think he's some kind of super trad yeah, right, give 1051 01:09:43.800 --> 01:09:51.760 me a break, dude, Page one. Nor is it possible, 1052 01:09:51.800 --> 01:09:53.880 on the other hand, for him to regard as the 1053 01:09:53.960 --> 01:09:57.279 only possible form and consequently binding on all Christians. The 1054 01:09:57.399 --> 01:10:00.079 form of this premiss he talking aout Vatican one's so 1055 01:10:00.880 --> 01:10:03.399 that was taken in the nineteen twentieth century. Right, So 1056 01:10:03.800 --> 01:10:07.840 we can't continue to expect the Orthodox to accept Vatican 1057 01:10:07.920 --> 01:10:11.800 on the symbolic gestures of Pope Paul the six And 1058 01:10:12.319 --> 01:10:15.800 in particular, he's kneeling before the representative of the ecumenical patriarch, 1059 01:10:18.119 --> 01:10:21.680 the schismatic according to this quote, right, or an attempt 1060 01:10:22.000 --> 01:10:24.760 to express this. So he's saying that we can't continue 1061 01:10:24.840 --> 01:10:33.680 to expect the Vatican one definitions to be binding upon 1062 01:10:35.640 --> 01:10:43.079 the Orthodox. And then finally we have the best quote 1063 01:10:43.079 --> 01:10:57.199 of all, which is I'm gonna make the point most 1064 01:10:57.279 --> 01:11:05.640 forcefully here and again I have read this book. It's 1065 01:11:05.680 --> 01:11:08.079 not taken out of context. This is what the book 1066 01:11:08.159 --> 01:11:13.439 is saying. Because Benedict has always been a rabbit ecumenist, 1067 01:11:13.640 --> 01:11:18.000 as have all of them. Francis is not some radical 1068 01:11:18.119 --> 01:11:20.119 in the sense of ecumenism. He's doing the same thing. 1069 01:11:20.159 --> 01:11:24.439 They all did, so, he says later on at page 1070 01:11:24.479 --> 01:11:31.359 two sixteen two seventeen, Patriarch Athanagaris, from their vantis point schismatic, 1071 01:11:32.479 --> 01:11:35.479 spoke even more strongly when he greeted Paul the sixth 1072 01:11:35.520 --> 01:11:39.319 and the final, against all expectation, the bishop of Rome 1073 01:11:39.439 --> 01:11:41.880 is among us, the first among us in honor. So 1074 01:11:41.960 --> 01:11:46.000 he was stating what the Roman views of the Orthox 1075 01:11:46.079 --> 01:11:48.960 view has always been. It is clear in saying this 1076 01:11:49.039 --> 01:11:51.199 that the patriarch did not abandon the claims of the 1077 01:11:51.239 --> 01:11:54.640 Eastern churches or the knowledge of the premiscy of the West. Rather, 1078 01:11:54.760 --> 01:11:57.399 he stated plainly what the East understood as the order, 1079 01:11:57.800 --> 01:12:00.239 rank and title of the equality of the bishop in 1080 01:12:00.319 --> 01:12:03.439 the Church. And it would be worth our while to 1081 01:12:03.600 --> 01:12:08.079 consider whether this archaic confession, which has nothing to do 1082 01:12:08.199 --> 01:12:12.359 with the premiscy of jurisdiction, but confesses a primacy of honor. 1083 01:12:12.479 --> 01:12:15.199 That's our view, and agappe if it might not be 1084 01:12:15.319 --> 01:12:20.279 recognized as a formula that adequately reflects the position that 1085 01:12:20.479 --> 01:12:29.079 Rome occupies. So it's not binding upon the churches. Right, 1086 01:12:29.359 --> 01:12:33.199 we should not choose the maximum road of Vatican One, 1087 01:12:36.520 --> 01:12:39.520 and we needn't expect anything more than was operant in 1088 01:12:39.640 --> 01:12:46.199 the first millennium. What here he is admitting. He's going 1089 01:12:46.279 --> 01:12:48.680 to admit that in the first millennium of the Church, 1090 01:12:57.000 --> 01:13:04.600 in the first millennium, the operation of the Roman bishop. 1091 01:13:14.439 --> 01:13:14.680 Come on. 1092 01:13:20.159 --> 01:13:22.279 The operation of the Roman bishop in the first millennium 1093 01:13:22.560 --> 01:13:27.880 was not according to Vatican. In other words, Vatican One 1094 01:13:28.319 --> 01:13:32.920 is not how Rome operated. Yes, exactly, that's what Orthodox 1095 01:13:33.000 --> 01:13:37.840 have been saying for a thousand years. Thank you. So 1096 01:13:37.960 --> 01:13:44.239 here is Benedict. He's going to admit that the Vatican 1097 01:13:44.279 --> 01:13:47.520 One definition of the papacy was not how the Church 1098 01:13:47.680 --> 01:13:55.840 historically functioned. In other words, Rome must not require more 1099 01:13:56.079 --> 01:13:58.920 from the East with respect to the doctrine of the 1100 01:13:59.000 --> 01:14:05.000 premiscy then has been formulated and was lived in the 1101 01:14:05.039 --> 01:14:11.239 first millennium. When Patriarch Athanagaris, on the occasion of post 1102 01:14:11.319 --> 01:14:14.159 visit to the Finar, designated him as the successor of Peter, 1103 01:14:14.960 --> 01:14:18.800 most esteemed amongst us as one who presides in charity. 1104 01:14:19.359 --> 01:14:23.760 This great church leader was expressing the ecclesial content of 1105 01:14:23.840 --> 01:14:26.880 the doction premiacy as it was known in the first millennium. 1106 01:14:28.399 --> 01:14:32.880 Rome must not ask for more. Booh yeah, So here's Ratzinger. 1107 01:14:33.680 --> 01:14:37.560 The supposed trad admitting that Vatican One was not the 1108 01:14:37.600 --> 01:14:40.479 way the Church operated in the first millennium, and that 1109 01:14:40.600 --> 01:14:47.880 this tradition is absolutely correct, and that's what had been 1110 01:14:48.079 --> 01:14:53.840 formulated in the first millennium. Absolutely By the way, he 1111 01:14:53.880 --> 01:14:56.359 goes on to say all kinds of even crazier stuff, 1112 01:14:57.560 --> 01:15:01.039 especially his quote about how the resurrection isn't that's a 1113 01:15:01.199 --> 01:15:03.800 doozy from rent Singer. Anyway, We're not going to go 1114 01:15:03.840 --> 01:15:06.399 in all that today. But now we bring all that 1115 01:15:06.560 --> 01:15:11.560 up to point out that that even amongst your supposed 1116 01:15:11.680 --> 01:15:17.000 greatest theologians, the admission is there that the Church of 1117 01:15:17.039 --> 01:15:20.880 the first millennium did not operate according to the definition 1118 01:15:21.039 --> 01:15:26.279 of the Vatican ie monarchy. Of course not. We know that. 1119 01:15:26.680 --> 01:15:33.600 We have argued that for a thousand years. We know 1120 01:15:33.720 --> 01:15:37.960 that because Revelation says that it didn't operate that one. 1121 01:15:38.640 --> 01:15:41.520 Let's look at the Council of Jerusalem first Synod. Now 1122 01:15:41.560 --> 01:15:44.760 the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter, 1123 01:15:45.039 --> 01:15:47.319 and when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up 1124 01:15:47.359 --> 01:15:49.960 and said, men and brethren, you know that a good 1125 01:15:50.000 --> 01:15:53.119 while ago God chose among us that my mouth would 1126 01:15:53.359 --> 01:15:55.560 be the means by which the Gentiles should hear the 1127 01:15:55.560 --> 01:15:58.720 words of the Gospel believe. So, God, who knows the heart, 1128 01:15:58.840 --> 01:16:02.439 acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as 1129 01:16:02.479 --> 01:16:06.039 he did to us to the Jews, right, and he 1130 01:16:06.159 --> 01:16:08.680 made no distinction between them and us, purifying their hearts 1131 01:16:08.720 --> 01:16:11.359 by faith. Now, therefore, why do you test God but 1132 01:16:11.439 --> 01:16:17.640 putting a yoke on the next of the disciples that 1133 01:16:17.760 --> 01:16:20.000 they are not able to bear. But we believe that 1134 01:16:20.479 --> 01:16:22.760 through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, we shall 1135 01:16:22.800 --> 01:16:26.800 be saved in the same manner as these. So this 1136 01:16:27.000 --> 01:16:29.600 is the beginning of the council. The council opens a 1137 01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:32.840 uh oh, Peter spoke, I guess that means Vatican One's 1138 01:16:32.880 --> 01:16:37.199 definitions are all true. Because Peter spoke, no, let's read on. 1139 01:16:38.199 --> 01:16:41.199 Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas 1140 01:16:41.239 --> 01:16:43.520 and Paul declaring, how the miracles and wonders this is 1141 01:16:43.560 --> 01:16:46.319 about whether Gentiles needed to keep Mosaic law right. So 1142 01:16:46.399 --> 01:16:50.800 this is what the Jerusalem Council is about, right, And 1143 01:16:50.960 --> 01:16:53.800 so Barnabas and Paul had worked miracles amongst the Gentiles, 1144 01:16:53.920 --> 01:16:57.840 and after that they became silent. James answered and said, so, 1145 01:16:58.079 --> 01:17:01.119 James is the Bishop of Jerusalem. Okay, so now we 1146 01:17:01.119 --> 01:17:03.600 wouldn't we don't argue that. Oh well, okay, so Peter 1147 01:17:03.840 --> 01:17:06.800 spoke first, so he's number one. Barnabas and Paul are 1148 01:17:06.840 --> 01:17:11.000 then the secondary apostles right after Peter, and then James speaks. 1149 01:17:11.560 --> 01:17:14.119 The point is not you can't read into the ordering this. 1150 01:17:14.239 --> 01:17:16.720 Romancas love to do this where they say like, because 1151 01:17:17.720 --> 01:17:20.720 you know Peter said it first, then he gets the 1152 01:17:20.760 --> 01:17:23.600 special gift. Okay, but what a minute, Peter walked on 1153 01:17:23.720 --> 01:17:27.840 water and then failed. I don't see any Roman Catholics 1154 01:17:27.920 --> 01:17:31.359 reading into some mystical meaning about how that means to 1155 01:17:31.479 --> 01:17:34.000 see if Peter is going to fail when Peter was 1156 01:17:34.039 --> 01:17:35.760 trying to walk on water. No, no, no, it's a 1157 01:17:35.880 --> 01:17:39.359 very selective reading of these mystical meanings. Right, So so 1158 01:17:39.600 --> 01:17:43.760 Peter spoke first there for Vatican one. Oh wait a minute, here, 1159 01:17:43.840 --> 01:17:48.840 let's read on. Men and brethren, listen to me. Simon 1160 01:17:48.920 --> 01:17:51.439 has declared how God did at first visit the Gentiles 1161 01:17:51.479 --> 01:17:53.640 to take out a people for his name. And with 1162 01:17:53.760 --> 01:17:57.479 these words the prophets agree, and then he quotes the Psalm, 1163 01:17:57.640 --> 01:18:00.560 or he quotes David. After this, I will return and 1164 01:18:00.680 --> 01:18:03.439 the tabernacle of David will be rebuilt. Excuse me, it's 1165 01:18:03.479 --> 01:18:06.279 Amos nine, not David Amos nine eleven. We did a 1166 01:18:06.359 --> 01:18:09.039 talk on Amos. Go listen to that, so that the 1167 01:18:09.119 --> 01:18:11.560 rest of the gentiles might seek the Lord. Right, So 1168 01:18:11.600 --> 01:18:13.720 the gentiles being brought into the church predicted in Amos. 1169 01:18:13.840 --> 01:18:17.399 He's arguing known to God from eternity or all of 1170 01:18:17.439 --> 01:18:23.239 his works. Therefore I judge. Therefore, I judge that we 1171 01:18:23.319 --> 01:18:28.720 should not trouble those from among the gentiles. And then 1172 01:18:28.760 --> 01:18:32.199 he lists basically what were the statements to Noah. Right, 1173 01:18:32.239 --> 01:18:36.399 So the reaffirmation of the Noea covenants here, that that's 1174 01:18:37.039 --> 01:18:39.279 really all that's necessary if the gentiles are going to 1175 01:18:39.359 --> 01:18:43.079 come into the Church, that they abstained from things polluted 1176 01:18:43.079 --> 01:18:47.640 by immorality or polluted by idols, from sexual reality, from 1177 01:18:47.880 --> 01:18:51.800 things strangled, and from eating blood. For Moses has had 1178 01:18:51.920 --> 01:18:54.840 through many generations, those who preach him in every city, 1179 01:18:55.039 --> 01:18:59.119 being read in the synagogues every Sabbath. Then it pleased 1180 01:18:59.119 --> 01:19:02.359 all the apostles and with the whole church to send men, 1181 01:19:03.239 --> 01:19:05.560 to send chosen men of their own company with Paul. 1182 01:19:05.680 --> 01:19:11.680 And they have a letter right about the decree of 1183 01:19:11.720 --> 01:19:16.680 the council. Nothing about Peter presiding as pre eminent. They're 1184 01:19:16.760 --> 01:19:20.199 in Jerusalem. The final judgment appears to be given by 1185 01:19:20.239 --> 01:19:24.760 it James. Therefore I judge this and then the decree 1186 01:19:26.119 --> 01:19:30.520 early canon law. Nothing about how this decision was made 1187 01:19:31.119 --> 01:19:38.560 with the universal approval of Peter. Right, it's collegial Peter, 1188 01:19:38.840 --> 01:19:44.119 Paul James. The apostles are all making this decision because 1189 01:19:44.119 --> 01:19:50.000 it's a college of apostles. Where is the premissy of 1190 01:19:50.079 --> 01:19:54.680 Peter here? Where does this anything like Vatican One? No, 1191 01:19:55.119 --> 01:19:59.000 not at all, nothing like it. So that's why the 1192 01:19:59.119 --> 01:20:04.239 doctrine evolves to get to the point of Vatican One. 1193 01:20:04.560 --> 01:20:06.840 And the Roman Catholics know this, and that's why they 1194 01:20:06.920 --> 01:20:12.079 have the idea of doctrinal development, the development and evolution 1195 01:20:12.239 --> 01:20:15.119 of doctrine. In fact, they make the argument that, well, yes, 1196 01:20:15.479 --> 01:20:19.079 it's true that at that time the doctrine of patrine 1197 01:20:19.159 --> 01:20:22.319 premascy was not what it was that Vatican won. But 1198 01:20:22.439 --> 01:20:25.399 that's because it's like a seed that's planted and the 1199 01:20:25.479 --> 01:20:29.439 seed grows into a tree. Initially it's a seed becomes 1200 01:20:29.479 --> 01:20:33.479 a tree. That's literally how they argue for that. I mean, 1201 01:20:33.560 --> 01:20:36.319 it's like Bonker's level, right, And we just saw rat 1202 01:20:36.359 --> 01:20:39.359 Singer says, come on, Let's be honest, it wasn't that way. 1203 01:20:42.680 --> 01:20:45.520 Now we have to understand that this is not just 1204 01:20:46.279 --> 01:20:50.359 about a question of this guy having the right to 1205 01:20:50.479 --> 01:20:55.560 decide doctrines, because that's not what the doctrine of papal 1206 01:20:55.600 --> 01:21:00.920 infallibility and supremacy comes to mean. It moves from this 1207 01:21:02.039 --> 01:21:06.479 to being galactic god emperor and the guy who can, 1208 01:21:06.600 --> 01:21:10.359 at the time of unum sanctum excommunicate anybody in the 1209 01:21:10.439 --> 01:21:12.880 world and presumably the entire world if you wanted to. 1210 01:21:15.000 --> 01:21:16.960 And they even have ridiculous debates about this, like what 1211 01:21:17.079 --> 01:21:20.520 if the pope excommunicated everybody? But I mean there's literally 1212 01:21:20.720 --> 01:21:24.439 like absurd level debates in you know, like scholastic neo 1213 01:21:24.479 --> 01:21:29.640 scholastic type stuff like this. It's laughable. But so it 1214 01:21:29.760 --> 01:21:33.119 moves from that to Peter having not just a spiritual 1215 01:21:33.159 --> 01:21:37.840 authority but a literal universal world leap. If you enjoy 1216 01:21:37.920 --> 01:21:40.760 this video, be sure and take use of the promo 1217 01:21:40.920 --> 01:21:44.079 code for the show sponsor. For this channel sponsor, which 1218 01:21:44.199 --> 01:21:47.359 is chalk dot com. That's choq dot com. You can 1219 01:21:47.439 --> 01:21:50.880 find the links in the description below the video. 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I also 1230 01:22:24.840 --> 01:22:26.760 would say, if you want to get access to my books, 1231 01:22:26.800 --> 01:22:28.760 head on over to the shop at my website and 1232 01:22:28.840 --> 01:22:33.079 get signed copies there. Thank you. Our authority that he 1233 01:22:33.319 --> 01:22:35.520 is over every monarch in the world, and in fact, 1234 01:22:35.720 --> 01:22:39.399 every monarch eventually has to submit to him. Now again, 1235 01:22:39.680 --> 01:22:42.399 we believe that the Church is superior to the monarchy, 1236 01:22:42.479 --> 01:22:45.880 there's no question about that. But the idea that Peter 1237 01:22:46.640 --> 01:22:51.560 is supreme over all monarchs and that ultimately what Jesus 1238 01:22:51.680 --> 01:22:55.319 is saying here is that Peter's descendants in the papacy 1239 01:22:55.720 --> 01:22:58.279 are to live in giant palaces with the Vatican Bank. 1240 01:22:58.920 --> 01:23:01.520 That's what this justify. Okay, so this is not just 1241 01:23:01.600 --> 01:23:06.920 a theological quibble. This evolves to be galactic God emperor, 1242 01:23:08.079 --> 01:23:12.399 and that's why it's insane. It's madness. And all of 1243 01:23:12.479 --> 01:23:17.199 the sata's the set of acontess clowns. They realize how 1244 01:23:17.239 --> 01:23:20.039 crazy all this is, but they believe it all the 1245 01:23:20.079 --> 01:23:24.640 way up until point X y Z right, and sate 1246 01:23:24.640 --> 01:23:26.760 of acontasm is not going to get you anywhere you 1247 01:23:26.880 --> 01:23:31.880 are going to be. You will despair eventually because sixty 1248 01:23:31.960 --> 01:23:35.239 years no pope. Now there's never going to be a pope. Oh, 1249 01:23:35.319 --> 01:23:37.479 Mary's going to come and there'll be an apparition and 1250 01:23:37.960 --> 01:23:41.560 she'll restore the papacy. Oh, it's the end of time. 1251 01:23:41.640 --> 01:23:44.000 That's why there's no papacy. No, no, sorry, But Vatican 1252 01:23:44.039 --> 01:23:48.760 one says that the successors of Peter continue until the 1253 01:23:48.920 --> 01:23:52.159 end of time, and the Church, if the gates of 1254 01:23:52.239 --> 01:23:55.680 Hell cannot prevail against it. In the Romankeelic view, necessitates 1255 01:23:55.720 --> 01:23:59.920 there being a living magisterium in communion with that guy 1256 01:24:00.319 --> 01:24:03.079 in Rome in that chair until the end of the world. 1257 01:24:03.159 --> 01:24:06.239 That's what it says. It doesn't say at the end 1258 01:24:06.279 --> 01:24:08.560 of the world it's done, and then there's one hundred 1259 01:24:08.640 --> 01:24:12.039 years of no pope. No, it says until the very end. 1260 01:24:14.319 --> 01:24:17.560 So you have to be in communion with Frank to 1261 01:24:17.640 --> 01:24:21.359 be a Roman Catholic. Ah. But wait, Frank and Vatican 1262 01:24:21.399 --> 01:24:25.880 two have obviously contradicted everything that came before. Oh well, 1263 01:24:25.920 --> 01:24:28.680 let's invent a host of myths by which we can 1264 01:24:28.960 --> 01:24:34.680 mentally gymnasticize and soothe our conscience and make ourselves feel 1265 01:24:34.800 --> 01:24:37.079 like we're still Roman Catholic even though we're not in 1266 01:24:37.119 --> 01:24:41.479 commune with anybody. We're LARPing online, or we are attached 1267 01:24:41.520 --> 01:24:45.079 to some group over there that doesn't even have a bishop, 1268 01:24:45.239 --> 01:24:48.199 or literally that thinks that all of the bishops have died. 1269 01:24:48.520 --> 01:24:50.439 There's no bishops left in the world. Maybe a priest 1270 01:24:50.520 --> 01:24:56.640 or too. If the church has died, then the church 1271 01:24:56.680 --> 01:24:59.600 has died and you're not in the church. Time to 1272 01:24:59.640 --> 01:25:03.039 rethink things. Bro, it's the wrong sect that you're in. 1273 01:25:04.159 --> 01:25:06.199 That's why you're caught up in an end Times cult. 1274 01:25:06.199 --> 01:25:08.199 You might as well be at John Hagen's church, right. 1275 01:25:15.239 --> 01:25:18.439 And it all started from the stupidity of the circularity 1276 01:25:18.760 --> 01:25:23.960 of how we base our beliefs and our claims on 1277 01:25:24.760 --> 01:25:29.880 philosophical nonsense, the idea that the papacy is proven from 1278 01:25:29.920 --> 01:25:32.960 the Bible, but the Bible is confirmed by the papacy 1279 01:25:33.760 --> 01:25:39.399 in the fifth century. It's circular. So what if it's circular, Well, 1280 01:25:39.920 --> 01:25:45.279 classical foundationalism doesn't allow for its circular arguments. And if 1281 01:25:45.279 --> 01:25:48.079 you're to give up your classical foundationalism, you can't be 1282 01:25:48.119 --> 01:25:51.159 a Thomist anymore. Okay, well i'll be. I'll be a 1283 01:25:51.239 --> 01:25:53.399 non Thomas Droman Catholic, and I'll go to a Byzantine 1284 01:25:53.439 --> 01:25:57.279 right church. Why do you care about being in communion 1285 01:25:57.319 --> 01:26:02.319 with people who go to mosque services, who pray towards Mecca. 1286 01:26:03.960 --> 01:26:08.840 Pope Urban the Second called a crusade Benedict and his 1287 01:26:09.000 --> 01:26:16.479 whole crew attend mosque services and pray towards Mecca. It's 1288 01:26:16.560 --> 01:26:22.640 not the true religion. It's not authentic Christianity. It's an aberration. Again, 1289 01:26:23.359 --> 01:26:28.119 why do you think after this this kerfluffle around the 1290 01:26:28.199 --> 01:26:33.520 year one thousand, soon after that, the Church of Rome, 1291 01:26:33.720 --> 01:26:37.079 this is what you guys believe, it moved to Auvignon, 1292 01:26:37.239 --> 01:26:44.079 France in a palace. So Jesus's intention was for the 1293 01:26:44.239 --> 01:26:47.079 See of Peter to be in Auvignon, France for one 1294 01:26:47.119 --> 01:26:51.159 hundred years, with three different guys claiming to be the 1295 01:26:51.279 --> 01:26:58.119 legitimate successor to Peter in France. In France, and you 1296 01:26:58.600 --> 01:27:02.479 have this mythical idea that the Roman Catholic Church has 1297 01:27:02.560 --> 01:27:09.760 consistently maintained this undefiled unity throughout history and wasn't a 1298 01:27:09.840 --> 01:27:13.640 tool of politics. Give me a fucking break, dude, total 1299 01:27:14.000 --> 01:27:21.039 lying to yourself, lying to yourself. Everybody knows the Sea 1300 01:27:21.079 --> 01:27:27.960 of Peter is not in France because a bishopric is 1301 01:27:28.000 --> 01:27:32.359 supposed to be where the bishopric what's set up? Okay, 1302 01:27:33.359 --> 01:27:37.880 if the patriarch of Moscow comes to America, America doesn't 1303 01:27:37.920 --> 01:27:44.039 become the seat of the patriarchy of Moscow. Right now, 1304 01:27:44.159 --> 01:27:45.720 let's talk about some of the next that some of 1305 01:27:45.760 --> 01:27:48.399 the more so. Now then we see the So that's 1306 01:27:48.439 --> 01:27:51.640 the problem of the circularity. That's why this position. Remember 1307 01:27:52.359 --> 01:27:55.319 this position. The whole point of it is to make 1308 01:27:55.399 --> 01:27:58.039 it easy for the Roman Catholic to know the dogma. 1309 01:27:58.840 --> 01:28:03.000 It begs the question. It moves the problem back a step. 1310 01:28:04.720 --> 01:28:07.680 How do you know that you are properly interpreting when 1311 01:28:07.760 --> 01:28:13.000 it is the ordinary, universal, infallible magistarium Because you see, ordinary, universal, 1312 01:28:13.119 --> 01:28:20.359 infallible magisterium comprises what the Church has always taught. Well, 1313 01:28:20.399 --> 01:28:23.199 that requires a lot of reading, doesn't it. That requires you, 1314 01:28:23.600 --> 01:28:27.159 as an individual knowing a lot about Church history, and 1315 01:28:27.279 --> 01:28:29.439 a lot about the Church fathers, and a lot about 1316 01:28:29.479 --> 01:28:32.439 all these endless papal decrees and all of these endless 1317 01:28:32.479 --> 01:28:36.560 canon law and all this endless ecumenical council stuff that 1318 01:28:36.680 --> 01:28:38.640 takes a long time, doesn't it. Yeah, right, that's why 1319 01:28:38.720 --> 01:28:43.560 people go get doctorates in theology. But I thought that 1320 01:28:43.880 --> 01:28:45.880 the point of the papacy was to make it simple 1321 01:28:46.880 --> 01:28:50.000 so that the average Catholic can know what's true and 1322 01:28:50.039 --> 01:28:55.640 what's false, what's heresy, what's orthodox. Really it does that 1323 01:28:55.760 --> 01:28:58.039 really work? Though? I mean, it sounds good on paper, 1324 01:28:58.079 --> 01:29:04.680 condu doesn't it. But wait a minute, when we start 1325 01:29:04.760 --> 01:29:08.039 looking at the actual workings. That's why I read thank 1326 01:29:08.079 --> 01:29:11.119 you to Lewis. We re uploaded that that clip from 1327 01:29:11.119 --> 01:29:14.520 that old talk. It's right below this video uploaded. The 1328 01:29:15.039 --> 01:29:20.199 papal circularity problem within the realm, the confines of Rometholicism, 1329 01:29:20.560 --> 01:29:24.000 the problem is still there, people chasing their tails because 1330 01:29:24.039 --> 01:29:27.439 when you actually want to try to apply this Roman 1331 01:29:27.479 --> 01:29:29.960 Catholics can't agree or figure out what's dogma and what's not. 1332 01:29:30.199 --> 01:29:33.000 Especially since Vatican Two, it's nothing but sixty years of confusion. 1333 01:29:33.399 --> 01:29:36.000 And it's not just sixty years of confusion. There's confusion 1334 01:29:36.199 --> 01:29:39.560 before Vatican two. There's confusion at the time of Vatican One. 1335 01:29:41.119 --> 01:29:46.159 What is doctrinal development? What does that mean? The evolution 1336 01:29:46.319 --> 01:29:51.520 of dogma? What and why is Ratzinger saying that Vatican 1337 01:29:51.600 --> 01:29:53.279 One was not the mindset of the church in the 1338 01:29:53.279 --> 01:29:57.520 first millennium. And you'll say, yeah, but that's his private opinion. 1339 01:29:57.600 --> 01:29:59.479 It doesn't matter if it's your private opinion or where 1340 01:29:59.520 --> 01:30:04.840 you write it. If it's wrong, private opinion or being 1341 01:30:04.920 --> 01:30:10.119 wrong does not exclude a person in traditional Catholicism from heresy. Now, 1342 01:30:10.199 --> 01:30:12.239 they might not be a bad willed heretic, They might 1343 01:30:12.279 --> 01:30:15.319 be a material heretic or whatever. They might not be 1344 01:30:15.399 --> 01:30:19.720 formally heretical, they might not be fully heretical, or event 1345 01:30:19.800 --> 01:30:24.039 all the different terms in scholastic neologisms you want, doesn't matter, 1346 01:30:24.439 --> 01:30:27.960 because again, the point of all of this, the point 1347 01:30:28.039 --> 01:30:30.920 of dogma, the point of denzing, or the point of 1348 01:30:31.000 --> 01:30:32.880 all this was supposed to be so that we could 1349 01:30:32.960 --> 01:30:39.119 know what the dogma was. But then when we start 1350 01:30:39.239 --> 01:30:43.199 buying all the encyclicals and we buy Denzinger and we 1351 01:30:43.279 --> 01:30:47.079 start reading it, you start feeling like a bit of 1352 01:30:47.119 --> 01:30:49.880 a Protestant, don't you, Because you're not a Protestant with 1353 01:30:49.880 --> 01:30:53.880 the Bible anymore. You're a Protestant with the papal encyclicals. 1354 01:30:55.439 --> 01:30:57.520 And that's why Vatican One didn't just say that you 1355 01:30:57.600 --> 01:31:00.880 have to be in communion with the history work Magisterium. 1356 01:31:01.239 --> 01:31:03.079 It says that you have to be in communion with 1357 01:31:03.199 --> 01:31:07.399 the living successors of the Bishop of Rome. That are 1358 01:31:08.000 --> 01:31:10.680 the guy over in Rome, not the guy in Kansas, 1359 01:31:11.159 --> 01:31:13.960 not the guy in Fillmore, New York. Not those guys, 1360 01:31:14.479 --> 01:31:18.319 the living successors until the end of the world, and 1361 01:31:18.439 --> 01:31:20.079 not until the end of the world, and then one hundred, 1362 01:31:20.119 --> 01:31:23.359 two hundred, three hundred years of no pope. Obviously that's 1363 01:31:23.399 --> 01:31:29.159 a sect. Obviously that's not the church. Now let's get 1364 01:31:29.199 --> 01:31:32.319 to some of the critiques of our review. You guys 1365 01:31:32.399 --> 01:31:36.760 don't have a way to know what the ecumenical councils were. Now, 1366 01:31:36.840 --> 01:31:42.079 first of all, again let's take just the bold faced 1367 01:31:42.720 --> 01:31:44.399 claim that we know what the councils are on the 1368 01:31:44.439 --> 01:31:47.319 basis of what the Pope says. Excuse me. The Pope 1369 01:31:48.199 --> 01:31:51.600 declared at the eighth Synod, the eighth Eastern Synod, not 1370 01:31:51.760 --> 01:31:55.159 the eighth Latin Synod, the eighth Eastern Synod, that the 1371 01:31:55.199 --> 01:31:58.960 philioque should not be used, and he ratified that eighth 1372 01:31:59.079 --> 01:32:03.960 Eastern Synod, that is proven in the essay below. So 1373 01:32:05.159 --> 01:32:08.880 just saying the pope, you guys don't follow John the 1374 01:32:08.960 --> 01:32:13.920 eighth who said to not use the philioquay, and then 1375 01:32:13.960 --> 01:32:17.199 the Philioka was added, and then now at Vatican two 1376 01:32:17.880 --> 01:32:21.560 for the purpose of the Uniates, even the Uniates don't 1377 01:32:21.600 --> 01:32:25.359 say philioqua in the Creed. This is ridiculous. This is 1378 01:32:25.399 --> 01:32:29.479 nothing but a dimission of our view. And the schismatic 1379 01:32:29.600 --> 01:32:35.119 weirdos who act like all of the Eastern Catholics are 1380 01:32:35.199 --> 01:32:40.960 crazy because they now revere Pope Gregory Palomas after John 1381 01:32:41.000 --> 01:32:43.199 Paul the Second or whoever said that it's okay through 1382 01:32:43.199 --> 01:32:47.399 Revere Gregory Palomos. It makes no sense because Barlem and 1383 01:32:47.520 --> 01:32:51.319 Gregory had a debate and they don't believe the same things. 1384 01:32:51.960 --> 01:32:55.039 You can't believe and not believe the philioque right, it's 1385 01:32:55.079 --> 01:32:59.359 not they're mutually exclusive views. You can't believe in absolutely 1386 01:32:59.520 --> 01:33:04.800 simplicity and believe in the uncreated energies. They're mutually exclusive views. 1387 01:33:05.239 --> 01:33:10.000 That's why there were synods declared. I mean, in the 1388 01:33:10.079 --> 01:33:15.399 Rabic Catholic view, orthodoxy is schismatic and heretical. You can't 1389 01:33:15.439 --> 01:33:18.159 reconcile it. And if you're a UNI eight, you have 1390 01:33:18.239 --> 01:33:20.840 to accept the Council of Trent and purgatory. Now most 1391 01:33:20.880 --> 01:33:23.039 of them don't. That's why it doesn't make any sense. 1392 01:33:23.319 --> 01:33:26.000 So all the union Ads ought to be schismatic because 1393 01:33:26.039 --> 01:33:28.800 they don't accept Trent. Most of them they don't accept 1394 01:33:29.439 --> 01:33:31.880 all this filioquay nonsense. They didn't recite in the Creed. 1395 01:33:33.199 --> 01:33:34.560 How do you have the same faith if you get 1396 01:33:34.560 --> 01:33:37.960 two different creeds. Obviously it's not the right church. You've 1397 01:33:38.000 --> 01:33:41.399 got different creeds in your church. Your church says the 1398 01:33:41.479 --> 01:33:44.119 creed without the filioquay is okay for the Uniates. The 1399 01:33:44.199 --> 01:33:46.920 Creed with the filioquay is okay for the Latins. That's 1400 01:33:46.960 --> 01:33:52.479 two different creeds, dummies, and Constantinople Nicino Politan Constantinople creed 1401 01:33:54.319 --> 01:34:02.279 Niceno Constantinopolitan creed says not to change it. That's why 1402 01:34:03.159 --> 01:34:07.159 if you read the drag Us essay that I put below, 1403 01:34:07.439 --> 01:34:11.960 he shows you that even up to the eighth, even 1404 01:34:12.000 --> 01:34:14.880 up to Pope John the eighth, there was the agreement 1405 01:34:15.800 --> 01:34:20.520 on the basis of the Canons of contentinoble One that 1406 01:34:20.600 --> 01:34:25.720 you can't write a new Creed. And I went by 1407 01:34:25.760 --> 01:34:28.560 the way, and I looked up Roman Catholic scholars who 1408 01:34:28.920 --> 01:34:31.760 admit this. They say, yes, John the eighth did affirm that, 1409 01:34:32.239 --> 01:34:33.680 and then they turn around and say, but yeah, but 1410 01:34:33.800 --> 01:34:38.399 so what because later on we changed our mind. This 1411 01:34:38.600 --> 01:34:42.640 position is madness. It's just what it's sola papa. That's 1412 01:34:42.640 --> 01:34:46.399 all Roman Cathosism is. It's not concerned with tradition. It's 1413 01:34:46.439 --> 01:34:49.840 not concerned with ecumenical councils, it's not concerned with collegiality, 1414 01:34:49.880 --> 01:34:52.119 it's not concerned with the Bible. The only thing it's 1415 01:34:52.199 --> 01:34:55.000 concerned with is the papacy. The only thing that they 1416 01:34:55.079 --> 01:34:57.600 do apologetics for is the papacy. They'll talk about these 1417 01:34:57.640 --> 01:35:01.039 other things, but their argument in any of these realms, 1418 01:35:01.439 --> 01:35:04.119 whether it's the phillyoqui, whether it's absolute simplicity, whether it's 1419 01:35:04.159 --> 01:35:06.239 any of these things, they just go back to the papacy. 1420 01:35:06.359 --> 01:35:08.880 Mc key's, m key's, m key's keys mac kei's, because 1421 01:35:08.920 --> 01:35:13.800 that's all they are is apologists for the papacy, because 1422 01:35:13.800 --> 01:35:18.600 there is a vicious need to vindicate this gigantic man 1423 01:35:18.680 --> 01:35:24.800 made system, which is obviously an aberration. Now. When Paul 1424 01:35:24.920 --> 01:35:28.039 wrote to the Church at Rome, he warned them that 1425 01:35:28.159 --> 01:35:33.239 they could be grafted out. It's an odd thing to 1426 01:35:33.319 --> 01:35:35.680 write to the Church at Rome, isn't it? In Chapter eleven, 1427 01:35:36.079 --> 01:35:40.239 beware you gentiles that you might be grafted out? Does Paul? 1428 01:35:40.800 --> 01:35:45.000 Does Paul conceive of, uh, the the Jews in Rome 1429 01:35:45.119 --> 01:35:48.000 like theyre being a Jewish pope, and that because you 1430 01:35:48.079 --> 01:35:51.199 know they won't be, they won't be grafted out. I mean, 1431 01:35:51.199 --> 01:35:52.960 I'm just trying to think of the mental gymnastics that 1432 01:35:53.000 --> 01:35:55.239 a Roman Catholic would say to explain this. Well, Paul 1433 01:35:55.399 --> 01:35:58.439 is only speaking of the gentiles in the Church of 1434 01:35:58.560 --> 01:36:02.239 Rome being grafted out. Of course, because of the Petrine 1435 01:36:02.279 --> 01:36:05.800 promise and supremacy, there will always be a Jew there 1436 01:36:05.880 --> 01:36:08.279 in Rome that will never be cast down. No, this 1437 01:36:08.399 --> 01:36:10.760 is nonsense. Come on, he's saying. He's warning the Church 1438 01:36:11.000 --> 01:36:15.479 at Rome, which is almost all gentile. Right you too, 1439 01:36:16.439 --> 01:36:19.800 you gentile, gentile church at Rome, you can be grafted 1440 01:36:19.840 --> 01:36:23.760 out too, just like Jews were. If you're haughty. Very 1441 01:36:23.840 --> 01:36:27.079 interesting that Paul would warn the Church of Rome of 1442 01:36:27.199 --> 01:36:32.760 being haughty, prideful and being cast out. Well, they had 1443 01:36:32.840 --> 01:36:36.159 reason to be prideful because they were doubly apostolic. As 1444 01:36:36.239 --> 01:36:45.039 Irenaeus says, No mention anywhere of divine infallibility being the 1445 01:36:45.119 --> 01:36:51.600 basis for their pride only because they're doubly Apostolic, and 1446 01:36:51.640 --> 01:36:56.960 every Orthodox icon makes this point. Right about Rome, it's 1447 01:36:58.359 --> 01:37:00.600 Peter and Paul, the feasts of Saint Peter and Paul, 1448 01:37:00.680 --> 01:37:08.039 and they are both holding in our church. The let's see, 1449 01:37:08.039 --> 01:37:11.239 I'm gonna get I gonna put a thing on the 1450 01:37:11.279 --> 01:37:17.520 screen here for everybody. They're both holding the church, all right. 1451 01:37:17.520 --> 01:37:22.800 It's not Peter holding Paul holding the church. Peter and 1452 01:37:22.880 --> 01:37:29.199 Paul have absolute equality. Peter might have a placement of 1453 01:37:29.319 --> 01:37:33.720 being first, but absolutely nothing in the New Testament anywhere 1454 01:37:33.880 --> 01:37:40.039 about the supreme, jurisdictional god powers of Peter and the 1455 01:37:40.159 --> 01:37:43.279 Roman Catholic said know that. They say, yeah, but it developed, 1456 01:37:43.439 --> 01:37:47.439 it's a thing that developed. No, it doesn't. Our theology 1457 01:37:47.479 --> 01:37:50.079 doesn't develop. That's why you guys don't even care about 1458 01:37:50.920 --> 01:37:55.560 the first thousand years of the creed, I mean of 1459 01:37:55.640 --> 01:37:57.800 the church, the first thousand years. You guys don't even 1460 01:37:58.159 --> 01:38:01.680 They don't even care. All they care about is what 1461 01:38:01.840 --> 01:38:05.640 the popes have said. They don't do theology, they do 1462 01:38:07.239 --> 01:38:11.159 papal apologetics. Now let's look at Nicias Canon six, because 1463 01:38:12.000 --> 01:38:15.159 this is one of the best clearest arguments, and we'll 1464 01:38:15.199 --> 01:38:17.720 go through all of the casustri and all of the 1465 01:38:17.920 --> 01:38:21.279 endless mental gymnastics that they use on this one as well. 1466 01:38:22.319 --> 01:38:24.600 What does Canon six of Nicias say, let the ancient 1467 01:38:24.800 --> 01:38:30.399 customs customs in Egypt, Libya, and Pentapolis prevail that the 1468 01:38:30.479 --> 01:38:34.439 Bishop of Alexandria has jurisdiction in all these since the 1469 01:38:34.880 --> 01:38:41.239 like is customary for the Bishop of Rome also likewise 1470 01:38:41.640 --> 01:38:47.640 in Antioch and the other provinces. Could it be any clearer? 1471 01:38:48.720 --> 01:38:54.840 Absolutely nothing like Vatican one here this conciliar statement that 1472 01:38:55.039 --> 01:38:58.319 Rome accepts. They accept Canon six unless they just arbitrarily 1473 01:38:58.399 --> 01:39:00.560 decide to reject it. Right, I mean, part of what 1474 01:39:00.720 --> 01:39:07.359 was ecumenically accepted is that the honor given to certain 1475 01:39:08.239 --> 01:39:10.439 preeminent cities. This is going to get us to the 1476 01:39:10.479 --> 01:39:13.319 point of talking about pentarchy, because pentarchy is nothing but 1477 01:39:14.000 --> 01:39:17.159 a canonical honor. Has nothing to do with how we 1478 01:39:17.279 --> 01:39:19.680 determine well, I want to say, nothing to do, but 1479 01:39:19.760 --> 01:39:22.560 it has nothing to do with what makes something religiously 1480 01:39:22.600 --> 01:39:24.960 true or false. We'll put it that way. It certainly 1481 01:39:25.039 --> 01:39:28.079 goes into when we look at councils and when we 1482 01:39:28.159 --> 01:39:31.720 look at synods. Right, was it recepted, did important churches 1483 01:39:31.760 --> 01:39:33.920 receive it? But guess what this is what no Roman 1484 01:39:34.000 --> 01:39:39.800 Catholic can grasp. Every bishop is equal. Even if Bartholomew 1485 01:39:39.880 --> 01:39:43.239 suddenly thinks that he has papal powers, it doesn't matter. 1486 01:39:44.199 --> 01:39:49.800 Everybody knows that even these positions of patriarch are made 1487 01:39:49.880 --> 01:39:52.640 up by the councils. They're honors given by the councils, 1488 01:39:52.680 --> 01:39:56.239 and they move. They're movable. Sometimes there's a patriarch that 1489 01:39:56.359 --> 01:39:59.760 created it a council, sometimes there's one that's moved elsewhere. 1490 01:39:59.800 --> 01:40:03.359 In preeminence or honor, they're just titles of honor because 1491 01:40:03.439 --> 01:40:10.239 of these being important cities. The patriarch of Constantinople has 1492 01:40:10.399 --> 01:40:20.479 absolutely no more power than bishop whoever of po Dunk Tennessee. Literally. 1493 01:40:21.479 --> 01:40:24.000 I know that's hard for you Romanchathlics to fathom, but 1494 01:40:24.319 --> 01:40:27.920 pentarchy is no magical formula for Orthodoxy has nothing to 1495 01:40:28.000 --> 01:40:30.840 do with the magical formula of five by which we 1496 01:40:30.960 --> 01:40:33.479 determine if the three of the five have done it 1497 01:40:34.239 --> 01:40:38.359 fought no total nonsense, total ignorance. By the way, the 1498 01:40:38.399 --> 01:40:41.079 fact that these people making these arguments are going to 1499 01:40:41.199 --> 01:40:44.319 this level of stuff shows they have absolutely no idea 1500 01:40:44.399 --> 01:40:46.319 what they're talking about. They're just making this stuff as 1501 01:40:46.479 --> 01:40:48.279 they're making it up as they go. They're reading like 1502 01:40:48.319 --> 01:40:52.600 the most basic bitch stuff, right, Catholic answers cut and 1503 01:40:52.760 --> 01:41:00.119 paste to answer this stuff. It's childish, childish. Notice that 1504 01:41:00.199 --> 01:41:02.920 the Canon says that it is a custom. It doesn't 1505 01:41:02.920 --> 01:41:06.600 say de jura or dvina. It's not it's not divine law. 1506 01:41:06.680 --> 01:41:10.560 It's a custom. And the jurisdiction of the Bishop of 1507 01:41:10.680 --> 01:41:14.720 Rome is likened to the custom of the jurisdiction of 1508 01:41:14.720 --> 01:41:18.359 the Bishop of Alexandria and Antioch. Now they know that 1509 01:41:18.439 --> 01:41:20.720 this is problematic. So what they do is they say, well, 1510 01:41:21.680 --> 01:41:26.119 this is not talking about the universal jurisdiction of the 1511 01:41:26.159 --> 01:41:28.920 Bishop of Rome. This is only talking about the jurisdiction 1512 01:41:29.079 --> 01:41:33.600 that the Bishop of Rome has in Rome, because of 1513 01:41:33.680 --> 01:41:40.720 course everybody knows the Bishop of Rome has a universal jurisdiction. Really, really, 1514 01:41:41.760 --> 01:41:46.119 why is that universal jurisdiction nowhere else in here? I mean, 1515 01:41:46.279 --> 01:41:50.079 this is a ridiculous comparison and a confusing comparison and 1516 01:41:50.119 --> 01:41:57.359 a nonsensical comparison. If everybody supposedly here understood that the 1517 01:41:57.520 --> 01:42:01.319 universal jurisdiction was just a given, come on, No, that's 1518 01:42:01.560 --> 01:42:06.119 extremely weak. Furthermore, when we read the fathers of this 1519 01:42:06.239 --> 01:42:09.640 time period, they don't teach the universal jurisdiction of the 1520 01:42:09.640 --> 01:42:12.640 Bishop of Rome. Now the Roman Catholics say, oh oh, yeah, 1521 01:42:12.680 --> 01:42:15.800 but Athenasious appeals to Rome. Appeals are made everywhere all 1522 01:42:15.840 --> 01:42:18.960 the time, to different bishoprics, And if Athanasius thought Rome 1523 01:42:19.119 --> 01:42:21.319 was Orthodox, then it makes sense for him to appeal there. 1524 01:42:21.720 --> 01:42:23.640 But appeals are made all the time to all kinds 1525 01:42:23.640 --> 01:42:26.039 of different places. So the fact that an appeal is 1526 01:42:26.119 --> 01:42:29.800 made is not a proof that they believed the Bishop 1527 01:42:29.800 --> 01:42:34.720 of Rome had universal, infallible, pre eminent authority over church 1528 01:42:34.800 --> 01:42:38.199 and state. By the way, now when we start asking 1529 01:42:38.239 --> 01:42:42.000 about the universal power of the Bishop of Rome over 1530 01:42:42.079 --> 01:42:45.520 the state as well, guess what all of those documents 1531 01:42:45.560 --> 01:42:48.319 that were used to prop this up in the late 1532 01:42:48.520 --> 01:42:54.199 and early Middle Ages, like the Simachian the documents of 1533 01:42:54.199 --> 01:42:58.399 Pope Simachus, the Galesian de Credos, the Donation of Constantine. 1534 01:42:58.960 --> 01:43:03.159 Nobody admits anymore that those are real. Everyone admits, the 1535 01:43:03.560 --> 01:43:06.720 Vatican admits. Every scholar in the world, the Vatican across 1536 01:43:06.800 --> 01:43:09.560 the board for a long time admits those are forgeries. 1537 01:43:11.439 --> 01:43:16.039 The documents of Pope Simachus, Galatian decredles, the false degredles, 1538 01:43:16.079 --> 01:43:20.279 as they're known as the Katina Greca that Thomas Aquinas 1539 01:43:20.359 --> 01:43:24.640 cites against the Greeks for the philioque and for the 1540 01:43:24.960 --> 01:43:27.279 premacy and infallibility of the Bishop of Rome. The Katina 1541 01:43:27.319 --> 01:43:30.359 Greca is a forgery. It's not real, and nobody believes 1542 01:43:30.359 --> 01:43:35.359 that Katina Greca. Now there might be some guy David 1543 01:43:35.439 --> 01:43:39.960 Bowden in his trailer in Kansas might believe in the 1544 01:43:40.039 --> 01:43:42.359 donation of Constantine, but nobody else in the world believes 1545 01:43:42.359 --> 01:43:45.640 in the donation of Constantine. And these were crucial to 1546 01:43:45.840 --> 01:43:52.159 proving the temporal supremacy of the Bishop of Rome for centuries. Now, 1547 01:43:52.199 --> 01:43:53.880 when I was a Roman Catholic, I thought, well, yeah, 1548 01:43:53.960 --> 01:43:56.760 but okay, but maybe it doesn't really matter because we 1549 01:43:56.800 --> 01:44:00.000 don't really need that to prove what is a theological doctrine. 1550 01:44:00.319 --> 01:44:02.720 But it's not just a theological doctrine. That's the thing. 1551 01:44:03.279 --> 01:44:05.159 You see, this is not just confined to the room 1552 01:44:05.199 --> 01:44:10.960 of theology. This evolves into a temporal worldly empire with 1553 01:44:11.119 --> 01:44:15.079 a giant international bank. Let's look at the obvious here. 1554 01:44:16.319 --> 01:44:18.399 Do you think that's what did Jesus really have in mind, 1555 01:44:18.520 --> 01:44:22.920 that there be a giant international Vatican bank in palaces. 1556 01:44:24.319 --> 01:44:32.199 I don't think so. But just on its surface here 1557 01:44:32.319 --> 01:44:40.880 we see that very clearly. This canon likens the jurisdiction 1558 01:44:41.000 --> 01:44:46.760 of the Bishop of Rome to Egypt, to Antioch and Alexandria. 1559 01:44:47.640 --> 01:44:50.079 Now these are important cities because these are cities where 1560 01:44:50.119 --> 01:44:56.760 the apostles set up early seas. These cities of themselves 1561 01:44:56.880 --> 01:45:00.239 possessed no magical authority. There's nothing magical about any of them. 1562 01:45:01.439 --> 01:45:04.520 In fact, when we look at the Apocalypse in chapters 1563 01:45:04.560 --> 01:45:08.039 two and three, there are pre eminent cities there that 1564 01:45:08.800 --> 01:45:11.239 you know, John wrote the Letter to the Seven Churches, right, 1565 01:45:11.319 --> 01:45:13.439 the Apocalypse is a letter that's written to those seven 1566 01:45:13.520 --> 01:45:17.359 churches of Asia Minor. Some of those churches don't exist anymore, 1567 01:45:19.479 --> 01:45:22.199 and that's because they were warned. In the letter to 1568 01:45:22.279 --> 01:45:26.119 those churches, Jesus says, if you are not faithful, I 1569 01:45:26.199 --> 01:45:30.359 will remove your lampstand. So there's no magical city anywhere 1570 01:45:31.000 --> 01:45:34.439 that doesn't fall under the threat of the covenantal curses. 1571 01:45:34.560 --> 01:45:36.840 By the way, did you notice that Jesus's statements to 1572 01:45:36.920 --> 01:45:42.119 the seven churches perfectly mirror the covenantal curses of Deuteronomy. Yes, 1573 01:45:42.279 --> 01:45:45.520 Jesus reaffirms the Covenant curses and blessing, because he's the 1574 01:45:45.560 --> 01:45:48.439 one who gave the covenant curses and blessings in Deuteronomy, 1575 01:45:48.760 --> 01:45:51.319 and he does the exact same thing to New Israel 1576 01:45:51.439 --> 01:45:54.800 the Church in the Warnings and blessings to the seven 1577 01:45:54.880 --> 01:45:57.680 churches of Asia Minor. So when Jesus looks at the churches, 1578 01:45:57.760 --> 01:46:01.079 he says, you either be faithful, or I will remove 1579 01:46:01.079 --> 01:46:04.640 your lampstand. I will cut you out right, removing the lampstand, 1580 01:46:04.920 --> 01:46:07.720 being grafted out, being cut out, all the same types 1581 01:46:07.760 --> 01:46:10.800 of statements, same thing Paul said in Rome's eleven. Therefore, 1582 01:46:10.920 --> 01:46:16.399 no magical, special, juridical, perfect infallible status to the Bishop 1583 01:46:16.399 --> 01:46:20.600 of Rome. And by the mere fact that at the 1584 01:46:20.680 --> 01:46:25.159 Sixth Council the entire Church thought that they could excommunicate 1585 01:46:25.199 --> 01:46:28.399 the Bishop of Rome, it proves that they didn't believe 1586 01:46:28.520 --> 01:46:34.000 in the Vatican One view of papal supremacy. It doesn't 1587 01:46:34.039 --> 01:46:38.399 matter whether Honorius was or was not Orthodox. Let's just 1588 01:46:38.479 --> 01:46:42.399 set that aside for a moment, because what is demonstrated 1589 01:46:43.239 --> 01:46:47.000 by the excommunication of Pope Honorius is that the mindset 1590 01:46:47.039 --> 01:46:50.920 of the entire Universal Church at the Sixth Council had 1591 01:46:51.000 --> 01:46:57.039 no problem whatsoever doing it. Therefore, papal infallibility is not 1592 01:46:57.239 --> 01:47:02.359 the universal teaching of the Catholic Church. The Orthodox view 1593 01:47:02.680 --> 01:47:09.720 is the universal teaching of the Orthodox Catholic Church. So pentarchy, 1594 01:47:09.800 --> 01:47:16.560 there's nothing magical about five cities or five patriarchs. I mean, 1595 01:47:16.720 --> 01:47:20.800 the Moscow patriarchate didn't exist in the first century. In 1596 01:47:20.880 --> 01:47:26.239 the third fourth century, right, other patriarchates come to be 1597 01:47:26.399 --> 01:47:31.279 that don't exist. The patriarch of Constantinople nowadays is a 1598 01:47:31.359 --> 01:47:34.039 title of honor, and he's not even a patriarchate of 1599 01:47:34.159 --> 01:47:39.439 a patriarchal city anymore. It doesn't even make any sense anymore. 1600 01:47:40.039 --> 01:47:43.079 It's just a title of honor that's retained, and he's 1601 01:47:43.159 --> 01:47:48.920 no different than my bishop. He may think, and as 1602 01:47:49.039 --> 01:47:53.000 many patriarchs and popes have thought. He may think. They 1603 01:47:53.079 --> 01:47:56.920 may think that they have universal bishopric powers and authority, 1604 01:47:56.960 --> 01:47:59.840 and that they're God emperors on earth. But that doesn't 1605 01:47:59.840 --> 01:48:07.399 make And again, let's take it back to the level 1606 01:48:07.479 --> 01:48:12.560 of simplicity. Or if Vatican One's definition a papal supremacy 1607 01:48:13.720 --> 01:48:16.600 was true in the first century, and if that's how 1608 01:48:16.640 --> 01:48:20.119 the true Church viewed it, why were all these church 1609 01:48:20.199 --> 01:48:24.199 fathers so varied in their view of Matthew sixteen. Why 1610 01:48:24.319 --> 01:48:28.960 wasn't it pretty universally understood? Why didn't everyone just write 1611 01:48:29.000 --> 01:48:31.079 to the Bishop of Rome? Why do you even have 1612 01:48:31.239 --> 01:48:35.760 a council? Councils are a waste of time an effort, 1613 01:48:36.199 --> 01:48:40.079 and in these centuries, traveling hundreds of miles to some 1614 01:48:40.239 --> 01:48:44.800 council it could be life threatening. What a ridiculous hassle. 1615 01:48:45.479 --> 01:48:48.399 Just write a letter and ask the bishop. Basically, the 1616 01:48:48.439 --> 01:48:51.000 Bishop Rome could just sit there reading letters all day, 1617 01:48:51.520 --> 01:48:54.239 or moving around to different churches, or send his leagates 1618 01:48:54.239 --> 01:48:57.640 out and they could just decide every matter. Why waste 1619 01:48:57.680 --> 01:49:01.079 the time of debating in a council? I mean, look 1620 01:49:01.079 --> 01:49:04.159 at the show image here, the ancient icons show a 1621 01:49:04.239 --> 01:49:07.800 bunch of people seated debating matters. What a waste of time? 1622 01:49:09.359 --> 01:49:13.720 Just as the pope, it's that simple. Why he doesn't 1623 01:49:13.800 --> 01:49:16.159 need all these other people. He is the super bishop. 1624 01:49:18.960 --> 01:49:23.760 What a waste of time an effort? And what is 1625 01:49:23.880 --> 01:49:32.880 canon sick showing you it's very obviously collegial, it's limited jurisdictions. 1626 01:49:34.720 --> 01:49:36.840 And you say, and the Catholic just make it up. 1627 01:49:36.880 --> 01:49:38.920 They just say, yeah, but it's understood that he also 1628 01:49:39.079 --> 01:49:42.199 had universal jurisdiction. No, it's not. Why is that now 1629 01:49:42.199 --> 01:49:49.399 we're mentioned, don't you think they would say that? And 1630 01:49:49.439 --> 01:49:51.520 they'll say yeah, But they sent it to the papal 1631 01:49:51.600 --> 01:49:57.359 legates for ratification. They sent it to every bishopric for ratification. Okay, 1632 01:49:57.680 --> 01:50:01.239 Sonodal letters were sent to all of the bishoprics and 1633 01:50:01.319 --> 01:50:03.920 the key, especially the key metropolitan aias, because they were 1634 01:50:03.960 --> 01:50:06.760 the most important, because they were some of the biggest churches. 1635 01:50:11.399 --> 01:50:17.680 So ratification itself cannot function the way the Roman Catholic 1636 01:50:17.680 --> 01:50:19.760 wants to. For how we know what's the true and 1637 01:50:19.800 --> 01:50:22.880 a false council. I'm gonna throw you for a loop 1638 01:50:22.920 --> 01:50:27.439 here because guess what, there's no external, magical, juridical formula 1639 01:50:27.560 --> 01:50:32.079 anywhere that can solve the issue of true and false 1640 01:50:34.079 --> 01:50:38.760 because it begs the question ultimately if counsels are reflections 1641 01:50:39.199 --> 01:50:41.560 to the teaching of Revelation. In fact, the liturgy actually 1642 01:50:41.600 --> 01:50:43.199 two Sundays ago, if you were there, if you were 1643 01:50:43.199 --> 01:50:47.079 paying attention, you noticed that on or a Sunday of Orthodoxy, 1644 01:50:47.199 --> 01:50:51.159 the liturgy says we agree with the fathers and the 1645 01:50:51.239 --> 01:50:57.880 Holy Teachers when they agree with Revelation. That's in the liturgy. Now, 1646 01:50:57.960 --> 01:51:01.319 this is another thing that the Roman Catholics bamboozled by 1647 01:51:01.399 --> 01:51:03.960 this question of how will the faithfull know what's true 1648 01:51:04.000 --> 01:51:06.079 and false if they don't have a pope. What do 1649 01:51:06.159 --> 01:51:08.199 you think the liturgy is for? The liturgy is there 1650 01:51:08.399 --> 01:51:10.720 to teach you and catechorize you. When you go to it, 1651 01:51:10.760 --> 01:51:12.880 and when you listen and you pay attention to what said, 1652 01:51:13.720 --> 01:51:18.399 you get the correct theology. The liturgy is the teacher. 1653 01:51:19.680 --> 01:51:21.680 We don't need the pope when we have a local 1654 01:51:21.760 --> 01:51:25.600 liturgy that perfectly embodies and teaches the wholeness of the faith. 1655 01:51:26.680 --> 01:51:30.199 The wholeness and fullness of Catholicity is present in a 1656 01:51:30.319 --> 01:51:33.520 local bishop. And this is what they can't grasp, which 1657 01:51:33.640 --> 01:51:39.560 is that Orthodoxy is local and decentralized. And we think 1658 01:51:39.640 --> 01:51:43.359 Jesus set up a local, decentralized church. He didn't set 1659 01:51:43.439 --> 01:51:47.439 up a superworld bureaucracy in one city that has a 1660 01:51:47.680 --> 01:51:51.199 super spirit. Right, everybody else has a little bit of 1661 01:51:51.239 --> 01:51:53.760 the spirit. But in Rome they have the super spirit 1662 01:51:53.920 --> 01:51:57.600 because they have the super bishop. If the church has 1663 01:51:57.680 --> 01:52:01.279 the sacraments, and they have the Dogma, and they have revelation, 1664 01:52:01.720 --> 01:52:04.840 and they have the liturgy, and they have Pentecosts, and 1665 01:52:04.920 --> 01:52:08.079 when you've been christmated, you have your personal pentecost you 1666 01:52:08.199 --> 01:52:12.159 have everything you need. There is no need for the 1667 01:52:12.199 --> 01:52:15.119 infallible Bishop of Rome, because the Holy Spirit is our teacher. 1668 01:52:15.239 --> 01:52:18.239 That was the point of Pentecost, and the fact that 1669 01:52:18.720 --> 01:52:22.439 even the Old Testament saints who didn't have Pentecost could 1670 01:52:22.560 --> 01:52:26.159 know the faith and know the truth without the Bishop 1671 01:52:26.159 --> 01:52:32.279 of Rome. It's looney tunes. It's silly, it's childish to 1672 01:52:32.439 --> 01:52:36.279 think that that guy is the way to know true 1673 01:52:36.319 --> 01:52:38.760 and false. It begs the question, how do you know 1674 01:52:38.840 --> 01:52:43.079 you're interpreting the papal documents correctly? You don't, Well, I 1675 01:52:43.199 --> 01:52:44.720 just read it. I just read it, and I can 1676 01:52:44.760 --> 01:52:48.840 see what's clearly true. Really, have you ever misinterpreted a 1677 01:52:48.880 --> 01:52:52.119 papal statement? Have the papal statements always been clear? Why 1678 01:52:52.159 --> 01:52:55.159 are their clarifications on the clarifications and then clarifications and 1679 01:52:55.159 --> 01:52:58.960 the clarifications of the clarifications of the clarifications. It's a 1680 01:52:59.439 --> 01:53:08.159 system of circular absurdity. And again, if we move up 1681 01:53:08.199 --> 01:53:09.920 to okay, so the question of floor, oh well, wait 1682 01:53:09.960 --> 01:53:13.000 a minute. At Florence, the entire Orthodox world agreed with 1683 01:53:13.159 --> 01:53:16.279 Rome and accept the feel like, no, they didn't. The 1684 01:53:16.359 --> 01:53:19.840 whole reason Mark of Ephesus is a saint is because 1685 01:53:19.840 --> 01:53:24.920 he didn't accept the agreement of Florence. I mean again, 1686 01:53:26.439 --> 01:53:28.199 And the only reason they would make that argument is 1687 01:53:28.399 --> 01:53:33.239 is as if it takes five of the pentarchy tempt No, 1688 01:53:33.359 --> 01:53:35.600 it doesn't, it would take all the bishops in the world. 1689 01:53:35.600 --> 01:53:35.800 I mean. 1690 01:53:35.960 --> 01:53:38.520 Athenasius actually says this in the Aaron Crisis. He says, 1691 01:53:40.119 --> 01:53:42.159 he talks about the fact that the whole world has 1692 01:53:42.239 --> 01:53:45.760 gone after Arianism and only a handful of bishops remain. 1693 01:53:49.079 --> 01:53:51.880 So technically it wouldn't matter how many bishops. It wouldn't 1694 01:53:51.880 --> 01:53:56.239 matter if every bishop in the world almost accepted Arianism 1695 01:53:56.399 --> 01:53:59.000 or whatever. I mean, it would matter in the sense 1696 01:53:59.039 --> 01:54:01.119 that that would be a crisis. And that's what happened. 1697 01:54:01.159 --> 01:54:11.479 Most of them did, but it took contramundum, athanacious contramundam. Now, 1698 01:54:11.560 --> 01:54:14.199 the mere fact that the Orthodox Church has existed for 1699 01:54:14.319 --> 01:54:21.000 the last thousand years without the pope proves that the 1700 01:54:21.119 --> 01:54:23.760 claim that we can't exist as a church without the 1701 01:54:23.800 --> 01:54:29.880 pope is wrong. And even your own papal church admits 1702 01:54:30.680 --> 01:54:33.359 that we have existed for a thousand years without the papacy. 1703 01:54:34.319 --> 01:54:39.039 How did we do that? If to leave the papacy 1704 01:54:39.239 --> 01:54:44.359 means your church falls apart, on the contrary, your church 1705 01:54:44.560 --> 01:54:47.760 is falling apart. Certainly, our church has problems. We have 1706 01:54:47.840 --> 01:54:49.600 many problems. We have to deal with all kinds of 1707 01:54:50.359 --> 01:54:51.840 nasty problems, and we have to have some of the 1708 01:54:51.880 --> 01:54:55.439 same problems. But at the question of truth and falsehood, 1709 01:54:56.600 --> 01:55:04.239 ultimate certainty, ultimate authority impairs paradigms. The system of Rome 1710 01:55:04.359 --> 01:55:06.359 is a house of cards because it's built on that 1711 01:55:06.439 --> 01:55:08.800 one guy. So if everything that's built on that one 1712 01:55:08.880 --> 01:55:10.840 dude doesn't work out, if it doesn't, if that doesn't 1713 01:55:10.960 --> 01:55:16.000 stand up, the whole house of card falls. Our system 1714 01:55:16.079 --> 01:55:20.159 is not built on one dude. It doesn't destroy Orthodoxy. 1715 01:55:20.319 --> 01:55:24.800 If Bartholomew is a heretic and he is, doesn't destroy Orthodoxy. 1716 01:55:24.880 --> 01:55:31.439 If Bishop ware says something heretical, it doesn't crumble Orthodoxy. 1717 01:55:31.479 --> 01:55:35.319 If half of the Orthodox world goes into apostasy, it's 1718 01:55:35.359 --> 01:55:41.520 not it's a tragedy. But the Orthodox Church isn't doesn't 1719 01:55:41.640 --> 01:55:45.439 end because of that. That's why Jesus created a decentralized church. 1720 01:55:45.720 --> 01:55:48.840 He didn't build it on one galactic god emperor in 1721 01:55:48.960 --> 01:55:52.640 three guys fighting over who's the successor of Peter in 1722 01:55:52.720 --> 01:55:58.600 France in the Middle Ages, that's looney, that's crazy. So 1723 01:55:58.720 --> 01:56:01.439 the fact that Saint Marco of Emphysis did not, with 1724 01:56:01.680 --> 01:56:06.319 the other patriarchs, sign the Union of Florence. Proofs that, 1725 01:56:07.159 --> 01:56:10.239 I mean, that's fully in accord with Orthodox ecclesiology. It's 1726 01:56:10.359 --> 01:56:14.000 unfortunate that those other ones did sign the Union of Florence. 1727 01:56:15.359 --> 01:56:17.600 But that's not a proof against Orthodoxy. That's only a 1728 01:56:17.640 --> 01:56:21.640 proof against Orthodoxy when you have a misconception about our ecclesiology. 1729 01:56:26.079 --> 01:56:29.399 There's no magical five. It's not grounded on the magical five. 1730 01:56:29.920 --> 01:56:33.399 If it was grounded on the magical five, for three 1731 01:56:33.479 --> 01:56:36.439 hundred years, there weren't the magical five. I mean, Nicia, 1732 01:56:36.520 --> 01:56:39.359 you start to have this discussion in Canon sixth there 1733 01:56:39.760 --> 01:56:42.960 of these important cities, there weren't. There wasn't a magical 1734 01:56:43.039 --> 01:56:46.279 five in the second century, and not everybody knew what 1735 01:56:46.359 --> 01:56:48.039 the Church of Rome was doing. How are you? How 1736 01:56:48.119 --> 01:56:52.039 were you in the second third? For any of these 1737 01:56:52.039 --> 01:56:54.880 early centuries. Do you think they had time to follow 1738 01:56:55.079 --> 01:56:58.760 the soap opera drama of Vatican Insider, to keep up 1739 01:56:59.000 --> 01:57:02.279 with the latest tweets from Frank to see who's Orthodox 1740 01:57:02.319 --> 01:57:05.800 and who's not, what they should and shouldn't do. It 1741 01:57:05.840 --> 01:57:09.760 would take years for something to reach Rome and be 1742 01:57:10.399 --> 01:57:12.560 disputed and then be written back and then have an 1743 01:57:12.600 --> 01:57:15.880 exchange back and forth for years. Read their letters of Basil, 1744 01:57:16.079 --> 01:57:19.319 Read the letters of Augustine. I've read them right. It's 1745 01:57:19.479 --> 01:57:23.920 years of back and forth. So it's loony tunes to 1746 01:57:24.000 --> 01:57:27.560 think that the Church could be grounded on these appeals 1747 01:57:27.640 --> 01:57:29.319 to Rome. And by the way, if you make the 1748 01:57:29.439 --> 01:57:32.479 argument that everybody was appealing to Rome to subtle things, 1749 01:57:33.479 --> 01:57:39.319 then you prove my point about councils being superfluous. If 1750 01:57:39.439 --> 01:57:41.199 just appealing to Rome was the way the early Church 1751 01:57:41.239 --> 01:57:45.680 settled things, there was no need for councils. The mere 1752 01:57:45.760 --> 01:57:47.800 fact that the councils existed, that they were called by 1753 01:57:47.800 --> 01:57:50.800 the emperors proves I review. Now they said, well, wait 1754 01:57:50.800 --> 01:57:56.159 a minute, though, you don't have ecumenical councils anymore. Ecumenical 1755 01:57:56.239 --> 01:58:01.960 councils existed and are defined by the term ocumene. The 1756 01:58:02.039 --> 01:58:06.479 ocumene is throughout the imperium. So yeah, they only make 1757 01:58:06.600 --> 01:58:08.760 sense in that way because the meaning of the word 1758 01:58:09.000 --> 01:58:12.880 is in accord with the totality of the empire. When 1759 01:58:12.920 --> 01:58:15.800 the empire ceased to exist, no, for us, there would 1760 01:58:15.840 --> 01:58:20.119 not be ocumene councils. But guess what, there were no 1761 01:58:20.159 --> 01:58:23.920 acumenical councils for the first three hundred years, would the 1762 01:58:24.000 --> 01:58:27.720 church do well? They had synods? They had synods in 1763 01:58:27.840 --> 01:58:31.520 here they're talked about in this book. Right, there are 1764 01:58:31.680 --> 01:58:35.720 local synods prior to and I see it. The senat 1765 01:58:36.000 --> 01:58:41.760 of Ancaira is prior to a Nicea and Caira is 1766 01:58:41.800 --> 01:58:45.640 three fourteen and it's a local cyna that talks about 1767 01:58:46.800 --> 01:58:49.880 canons and rules that were set up for the governance 1768 01:58:49.920 --> 01:58:53.000 of the church. Now, this synod had nothing to do 1769 01:58:53.760 --> 01:59:04.279 with knowing what the Bishop of Rome thought. And similarly, 1770 01:59:04.840 --> 01:59:14.359 canons are had throughout the church. This but for example, 1771 01:59:14.439 --> 01:59:22.680 an Caira, the capital of Galatia, is a regional council 1772 01:59:22.760 --> 01:59:29.159 with about a dozen bishops present. Okay, and it basically 1773 01:59:29.239 --> 01:59:34.640 settled if you basic canon law, things about who can 1774 01:59:34.720 --> 01:59:38.720 attend the Eucharist, what happens to people that are lapsed, 1775 01:59:38.960 --> 01:59:46.800 this kind of stuff. Uh and bishops. Right, where is 1776 01:59:46.960 --> 01:59:50.720 the appeal and decision of the Bishop of Rome in 1777 01:59:50.840 --> 01:59:53.359 this council? Oh, it's not there, but didn't need well, 1778 01:59:54.199 --> 01:59:57.479 I thought that all the church fathers would appeal to Rome. 1779 01:59:59.239 --> 02:00:02.600 Now this is is the local senence sinodal Okay, So 1780 02:00:02.800 --> 02:00:08.760 if the church can function sinotally for three centuries, without 1781 02:00:08.880 --> 02:00:13.720 necessarily any appeals to Rome or without an ecumenical council. 1782 02:00:14.439 --> 02:00:19.479 Then doesn't that seem to suggest that the normative ecclesiological 1783 02:00:19.720 --> 02:00:23.399 governing of the church is sinodal. Yes, exactly, of course 1784 02:00:23.439 --> 02:00:29.039 it does. Now, then when controversies raged throughout the Empire, 1785 02:00:29.199 --> 02:00:33.079 you have the institution of the ecumenical councils. Now we 1786 02:00:33.479 --> 02:00:36.520 affirm the ecumenical councils on the basis of the fact 1787 02:00:36.600 --> 02:00:38.880 that they're true. I know that's a kind of a 1788 02:00:38.960 --> 02:00:42.760 shocker here, But there's no magical formula to a council 1789 02:00:42.800 --> 02:00:45.399 that makes it true because it's a council. Of course, Yeah, 1790 02:00:45.479 --> 02:00:48.960 we don't believe that. We don't believe that it's because 1791 02:00:49.000 --> 02:00:51.279 we give it the title ecumenical council that that makes 1792 02:00:51.319 --> 02:00:54.159 it true. Because there were robber councils and false synods. 1793 02:00:54.840 --> 02:00:58.159 But the only way ultimately to know what's a false 1794 02:00:58.239 --> 02:01:01.760 council and a true council is the exact same epistemic 1795 02:01:01.840 --> 02:01:05.000 dilemma that the Roman Catholic has in describing or figuring 1796 02:01:05.039 --> 02:01:07.680 out a false true a false pope from a true pope. 1797 02:01:08.079 --> 02:01:10.840 It's no different. It's the exact same question and dilemma 1798 02:01:10.920 --> 02:01:13.840 moved back a step, so just to say, the only 1799 02:01:13.920 --> 02:01:15.600 way to know the difference between a true and false 1800 02:01:15.640 --> 02:01:19.800 council is by the pope begs the question that the 1801 02:01:19.840 --> 02:01:21.720 pope is Orthodox and he's a true pope and not 1802 02:01:21.760 --> 02:01:25.000 a false pope. And even all the Roman Catholics who 1803 02:01:25.079 --> 02:01:27.039 just follow Frank are wondering is he a true or 1804 02:01:27.079 --> 02:01:29.399 false pope? And even when they go back in history 1805 02:01:29.439 --> 02:01:32.039 and they look at people like John John the twenty 1806 02:01:32.119 --> 02:01:34.600 third or do excuse me twenty second who was excommunicated. Oh, 1807 02:01:34.640 --> 02:01:37.640 he was ex communicated, but uh, yeah, he was still pope, 1808 02:01:37.680 --> 02:01:40.800 And who cares. We don't. We don't care about the 1809 02:01:40.920 --> 02:01:48.079 stupid debates because they're using sonodal church government. Now the 1810 02:01:48.199 --> 02:01:52.079 Roman Cathicals say, yeah, but yeah, but but it was this, 1811 02:01:52.560 --> 02:01:55.880 the sonodal stuff can be true, and it's still true 1812 02:01:56.000 --> 02:02:00.640 that the pope is infallible. Why are they had synods 1813 02:02:01.279 --> 02:02:03.840 that have no mention or interest in the Bishop of 1814 02:02:03.920 --> 02:02:09.079 Rome that are making canon law, governing the church sonotally 1815 02:02:10.439 --> 02:02:14.640 for hundreds of years before the first Ecumenical Council. If 1816 02:02:14.680 --> 02:02:17.800 it's not what we say it is, it's obvious our 1817 02:02:17.880 --> 02:02:27.640 view is correct and caira gangra. There are canons and 1818 02:02:27.800 --> 02:02:34.279 synods that govern the church locally. So it's only when 1819 02:02:34.479 --> 02:02:37.399 the emperor and then when we begin to have the 1820 02:02:37.439 --> 02:02:42.399 conversion of the imperium all right, Constantine, Theodosius, et cetera, 1821 02:02:42.399 --> 02:02:49.279 et cetera, that the councils can become empire wide, imperial. 1822 02:02:50.319 --> 02:02:54.359 That's the meaning of ecumenical council. So it doesn't become 1823 02:02:54.399 --> 02:02:58.119 a question then at that point of the number of 1824 02:02:58.159 --> 02:03:01.880 people there right, it's not ecumen because it's five hundred bishops. 1825 02:03:02.600 --> 02:03:07.600 Some councils had a very small number of bishops. Some 1826 02:03:07.760 --> 02:03:10.560 councils had hundreds. So it has nothing to do with 1827 02:03:10.640 --> 02:03:12.680 the number any more than it has anything to do 1828 02:03:12.720 --> 02:03:15.479 with that number of pentarchy or five cities, has nothing 1829 02:03:15.520 --> 02:03:19.439 to do with it, no. So that's why for us, 1830 02:03:19.479 --> 02:03:22.119 for example, even after the split between East and West, 1831 02:03:22.399 --> 02:03:25.119 the only reason we don't talk about ecumenical councils is 1832 02:03:25.199 --> 02:03:29.000 because the okumen A pretty much cease to exist right 1833 02:03:29.000 --> 02:03:30.960 out well after the fall of Byzantium. But we do 1834 02:03:31.119 --> 02:03:35.239 have synods and councils that are binding. The Palamite synods 1835 02:03:35.239 --> 02:03:38.600 and councils are binding on orthodoxy and the fact that 1836 02:03:38.680 --> 02:03:40.359 we sing that in the liturgy, and we talk about 1837 02:03:40.399 --> 02:03:43.439 those synods and we just what last week, two weeks 1838 02:03:43.479 --> 02:03:48.000 ago honored Saint Gregor Palomas and the uncreated Light, and 1839 02:03:48.079 --> 02:03:51.319 it's in the sonoticon of Orthodoxy two. So you have 1840 02:03:51.479 --> 02:03:55.079 to believe those things. They're not optional, right, And so 1841 02:03:55.199 --> 02:03:58.039 this is even this is a misunderstanding that Orthodox have too, right. 1842 02:03:58.079 --> 02:04:01.800 I mean, it's not like I mean, imagine being in 1843 02:04:01.920 --> 02:04:06.359 a church in the three in the year three hundred. 1844 02:04:07.319 --> 02:04:11.159 No Orthodox person would would would would say, well, we 1845 02:04:11.239 --> 02:04:13.680 haven't had an acumenical council yet, so no teachings are binding. 1846 02:04:14.840 --> 02:04:17.960 That's that's absurd. Let's retard it. Right, But there are 1847 02:04:18.000 --> 02:04:20.239 some Orthodox people who have this mindset that the only 1848 02:04:20.359 --> 02:04:24.439 thing that's binding on Orthodox is the the Seventh sent No, 1849 02:04:24.560 --> 02:04:27.439 that's not true. It's not true at all. The medieval 1850 02:04:27.520 --> 02:04:32.399 synods are binding. Now, ultimately, why are they binding? Ultimately 1851 02:04:32.479 --> 02:04:35.279 it's a question of what's true or false, And there's 1852 02:04:35.359 --> 02:04:37.239 no way to get around that question. It doesn't matter 1853 02:04:37.279 --> 02:04:40.239 whether you're Roman Catholic, whether you're Protestant, whether you're Orthodox. 1854 02:04:40.920 --> 02:04:45.000 Nobody has a magical formula for the ultimate question of 1855 02:04:45.319 --> 02:04:47.880 whether this thing is true or false. Okay, you can't 1856 02:04:48.000 --> 02:04:50.119 just say, well, we know it's true false by a 1857 02:04:50.159 --> 02:04:52.920 whole bunch of people deciding it. No, a whole bunch 1858 02:04:52.920 --> 02:04:55.079 of people can be wrong. Okay, well we know that 1859 02:04:55.119 --> 02:04:58.439 it's true false because the pope decided it. No, because 1860 02:04:58.600 --> 02:05:01.119 that begs the question that you are correctly interpreting the 1861 02:05:01.159 --> 02:05:03.800 pope and that it's a true pope not an anti pope, 1862 02:05:04.079 --> 02:05:05.479 which by the way, there have been like forty Ani 1863 02:05:05.520 --> 02:05:14.680 popes that it is the that the Pope is himself Orthodox, etc. Right, 1864 02:05:20.520 --> 02:05:23.279 So no, it's not true. And if there are Orthodox 1865 02:05:23.319 --> 02:05:26.680 who are misinformed who think that just because it's not 1866 02:05:26.800 --> 02:05:29.439 an ecumenical council, it's not something that we pay attention 1867 02:05:29.479 --> 02:05:31.119 to or but I mean, the liturgy is not an 1868 02:05:31.159 --> 02:05:34.319 ecumenical council, and every Orthodox person follows the liturgy. So 1869 02:05:34.399 --> 02:05:38.439 this is really a weird Protestant or even Roman Catholic mindset. 1870 02:05:38.600 --> 02:05:40.840 Like the only way we know what dogma is, the 1871 02:05:40.920 --> 02:05:44.680 only way to know dogma is to know it individually 1872 02:05:44.760 --> 02:05:48.279 and personally. So now at this point in the Roman calics, 1873 02:05:48.399 --> 02:05:49.920 well I wit a minute, though, see see this is 1874 02:05:49.960 --> 02:05:51.680 where you lose me, because you're starting to sound like 1875 02:05:51.680 --> 02:05:53.399 a Protestant. You're sounding like the guy who says that 1876 02:05:53.479 --> 02:05:56.520 we was the Holy Spirit guides me. Here's the difference 1877 02:05:56.600 --> 02:06:00.359 between us and the Protestant. We don't believe that the 1878 02:06:00.439 --> 02:06:05.439 Holy Spirit has deemed to guide people as atomistic individuals. 1879 02:06:06.600 --> 02:06:09.720 No church father ever taught that. Nobody ever taught that 1880 02:06:09.800 --> 02:06:11.960 in history of the church until after I don't know 1881 02:06:12.079 --> 02:06:18.199 Adam Smith and the economic revolution. This idea of atomistic 1882 02:06:18.239 --> 02:06:23.720 individualism is what are the means? Well, the only way 1883 02:06:23.800 --> 02:06:26.159 that we're going to know the means by which God 1884 02:06:26.479 --> 02:06:29.880 ordained to guide the church is to go back to Revelation. Right. 1885 02:06:30.880 --> 02:06:32.560 So you're so, what an't it? This is circular? Yes, 1886 02:06:32.640 --> 02:06:35.760 it is circular because at the question of ultimate foundations 1887 02:06:35.800 --> 02:06:41.720 of paradigms and worldviews, circularity is unavoidable. So what makes 1888 02:06:41.760 --> 02:06:46.439 a council true? It being true? There's no other way 1889 02:06:46.479 --> 02:06:49.800 to answer that question. We would even say the same 1890 02:06:49.840 --> 02:06:52.159 thing about a pope. What makes a pope a true pope? 1891 02:06:52.319 --> 02:06:58.720 That he's orthodox, not a magical formula. Not magically. We're 1892 02:06:59.039 --> 02:07:02.520 going through some right, you know, white smoke burning in 1893 02:07:02.640 --> 02:07:05.560 Rome and some guys who wear creepy red capes making 1894 02:07:05.600 --> 02:07:09.479 some decision that no, there's no, there's no infallible guy 1895 02:07:09.560 --> 02:07:13.159 that the Holy Spirit is guiding these clowns and mobsters 1896 02:07:13.199 --> 02:07:17.159 in Rome. And yeah, they are clowns and mobsters, all right, 1897 02:07:17.239 --> 02:07:20.319 and everybody's starting to figure that out. That's who the 1898 02:07:20.399 --> 02:07:24.000 Spirit is guiding to be the the cart of Jesus 1899 02:07:24.079 --> 02:07:28.479 on earth, a bunch of mobsters, give me right, come on, 1900 02:07:33.199 --> 02:07:36.640 So no again, everybody who existed in the year three 1901 02:07:36.720 --> 02:07:39.920 hundred knew that the Church was governed by scripture, by 1902 02:07:39.960 --> 02:07:43.840 the bishopric, the local bishops, and this synod. There hasn't 1903 02:07:43.840 --> 02:07:47.840 been an ecumenical council. Does that mean because we've had 1904 02:07:47.880 --> 02:07:51.000 three hundred years of Christianity and no ecumenical council, nobody 1905 02:07:51.119 --> 02:07:57.079 knows what the church teaches? Did everybody just right to Rome, Pope, 1906 02:07:57.600 --> 02:08:00.399 tell us, please, we don't know what Christians it is. 1907 02:08:00.880 --> 02:08:02.760 We don't trust reading the Bible and going to the 1908 02:08:02.800 --> 02:08:05.600 liturgy unless you interpret the Bible and the liturgy for us. 1909 02:08:06.199 --> 02:08:08.199 This is this is why they should have shouldn't they? 1910 02:08:08.279 --> 02:08:10.159 I Vatican One was true in the year three hundred. 1911 02:08:11.119 --> 02:08:15.840 Did anybody do that? No? Now, let's fast forward up 1912 02:08:15.880 --> 02:08:19.920 past these regional synods, just for a brief moment. I 1913 02:08:20.000 --> 02:08:24.760 want to think about something here, which is that Rome 1914 02:08:24.840 --> 02:08:27.359 admits that John Damascus is a doctor of the Church. 1915 02:08:27.439 --> 02:08:29.079 Now that one of the reasons I continue to go 1916 02:08:29.119 --> 02:08:32.399 to John Damascus is because not just the fact that, 1917 02:08:32.520 --> 02:08:35.039 you know, as a Protestant, I read him and he, 1918 02:08:35.600 --> 02:08:39.039 you know, changed my mind on things like icons. But 1919 02:08:39.199 --> 02:08:41.479 as I delved into defense of the Orthodox Faith, my 1920 02:08:41.960 --> 02:08:47.520 assumption was that Aquinas is teaching nothing different than than 1921 02:08:47.600 --> 02:08:50.479 Saint John of Damascus, because they both like Aristotle. So 1922 02:08:50.560 --> 02:08:52.960 it's gotta it's got to all be. In a court, 1923 02:08:53.119 --> 02:08:55.039 there's no way that there's two different sis. It's got 1924 02:08:55.119 --> 02:08:58.600 to all be. It's just got to be. But I 1925 02:08:58.760 --> 02:09:03.119 hadn't really read and understood John Damascus at that time. 1926 02:09:04.680 --> 02:09:09.439 I didn't understand that he talks about God having one 1927 02:09:09.600 --> 02:09:12.680 energy and many energies. I couldn't make sense of that. 1928 02:09:12.840 --> 02:09:15.920 I didn't know what that meant. I couldn't understand what 1929 02:09:16.039 --> 02:09:18.159 he meant in book three when he talks about the 1930 02:09:18.279 --> 02:09:23.439 uncreated energies deifying Christ's humanity in the incarnation. It didn't 1931 02:09:23.479 --> 02:09:25.840 make sense to me why. I mean, well, I mean, 1932 02:09:26.119 --> 02:09:28.560 I'd accepted what he said, but I just assumed that, well, 1933 02:09:28.560 --> 02:09:32.279 that's no different than what Aquinas teaches. But then it's not, 1934 02:09:32.600 --> 02:09:38.000 you see, because eventually when you really understand the difference 1935 02:09:38.239 --> 02:09:41.600 and why one of them is teaching, for example, that 1936 02:09:43.399 --> 02:09:46.680 the grace that's given to Christ and the incarnation, the 1937 02:09:46.800 --> 02:09:49.159 grace that Christ communicated to his human nature, and the 1938 02:09:49.199 --> 02:09:53.279 incarnation is created. It's a created, habitual grace. Let's see that, 1939 02:09:53.399 --> 02:09:57.359 because they will lose their mind thinking that I'm making 1940 02:09:57.439 --> 02:10:01.119 this up. Let's find this quote and we're going to 1941 02:10:01.159 --> 02:10:03.079 see why they created grace. Stuff matters. By the way, 1942 02:10:05.279 --> 02:10:08.079 somebody says this, the drag Us link is broken. Okay, 1943 02:10:08.159 --> 02:10:10.960 let me let me reget that. Reget the link again. Here. 1944 02:10:13.279 --> 02:10:16.079 I might have cut the HTM off there by accident. 1945 02:10:18.439 --> 02:10:29.039 Let's see. Let me put it in the chat. Let 1946 02:10:29.079 --> 02:10:35.159 me try that link. Okay, the link works for me. 1947 02:10:35.239 --> 02:10:37.479 I've tried it twice. Now. That's an important essay, really 1948 02:10:37.520 --> 02:10:42.159 important essay. It was one of the first when I 1949 02:10:42.239 --> 02:10:43.880 was when I was runan Catholic and started to look 1950 02:10:43.880 --> 02:10:46.079 at Orthodox. It was one of the first essays I 1951 02:10:46.199 --> 02:10:48.840 read that was really kind of whoa I never really 1952 02:10:49.159 --> 02:10:51.319 I didn't know anything about you know, John the eighth 1953 02:10:51.359 --> 02:10:56.039 and the eighth Council. But I did want to show 1954 02:10:56.039 --> 02:11:00.880 you this quote about the grace. I'll get so many 1955 02:11:00.920 --> 02:11:07.880 messages I can't keep up. The source inside the link 1956 02:11:07.920 --> 02:11:10.279 itself is broken. So the essay has a citation in 1957 02:11:10.319 --> 02:11:13.960 which the link is broken. I can't I can't help 1958 02:11:14.039 --> 02:11:17.199 that the link inside that old essay is broken. I 1959 02:11:17.279 --> 02:11:19.520 mean I can look for that. Just use wayback machine. 1960 02:11:19.600 --> 02:11:21.600 See if you can pull it up on wayback machine. 1961 02:11:25.279 --> 02:11:28.159 Rome didn't recognize the Council of eight six nine's for 1962 02:11:28.239 --> 02:11:31.079 over two hundred years before the reverse course exactly exactly. 1963 02:11:32.960 --> 02:11:45.439 So Jeff Jablonski is making a great point there. Yeah. 1964 02:11:45.479 --> 02:11:48.640 I mean you'll find you'll find Roman Catholic historians kind 1965 02:11:48.680 --> 02:11:50.520 of go back and forth on what happened at the 1966 02:11:50.680 --> 02:11:54.640 Eighth East and the eighth West. But typically they will 1967 02:11:54.760 --> 02:11:57.680 they will say that it that it was ratified, but 1968 02:11:57.840 --> 02:12:01.720 that later some decision was made. Otherwise it doesn't matter, 1969 02:12:01.800 --> 02:12:05.319 because the point is that John the eighth ratified the 1970 02:12:05.399 --> 02:12:07.960 Eastern eighth Council and didn't want to use the feel okuayh. 1971 02:12:13.000 --> 02:12:16.920 So here is the statement from I think this is ought. 1972 02:12:19.000 --> 02:12:22.359 I'll put the link because everybody's gonna crazy put their links, 1973 02:12:22.600 --> 02:12:26.279 making up quotes, right, So here is the well, I 1974 02:12:26.399 --> 02:12:34.720 need to screenshot it. No, Lincoln, let's see here. Okay, 1975 02:12:34.800 --> 02:12:43.319 So here's the the Aught quote about Christ's humanity having 1976 02:12:43.399 --> 02:12:46.399 created grace. And you'll see as we get to the 1977 02:12:46.439 --> 02:12:48.720 created grace part towards the end that this really just 1978 02:12:48.800 --> 02:12:51.039 kind of lines up with the argument I was making 1979 02:12:51.079 --> 02:12:54.760 the whole time. Even the grace and the incarnation in Christ. 1980 02:12:54.880 --> 02:12:59.119 Humanity in Rome's rhetically is created. Ought says, by reason 1981 02:12:59.159 --> 02:13:02.680 of his endowment with the fullness of created habitual grace, 1982 02:13:02.960 --> 02:13:07.600 Christ's soul is accidentally holy. Right. So this is where 1983 02:13:07.760 --> 02:13:12.199 I when I was talking with classical theists, and I 1984 02:13:12.279 --> 02:13:20.159 said that At says that the infused it's the infused substance, 1985 02:13:20.399 --> 02:13:24.920 when I should have said infused accident. Right. But the 1986 02:13:25.000 --> 02:13:27.680 point being is that even the Roman Catholic scheme, even 1987 02:13:27.760 --> 02:13:32.119 that system, recognizes that what Christ does to his humanity 1988 02:13:32.159 --> 02:13:35.319 and the incarnation is the exact same as the type 1989 02:13:35.359 --> 02:13:39.439 of grace that we receive ourselves, because we're participating in 1990 02:13:39.560 --> 02:13:42.800 his body. Right. And this is why St. Cyril, when 1991 02:13:42.800 --> 02:13:44.880 he argues against the Storists, he uses the argument from 1992 02:13:44.880 --> 02:13:48.199 the Eucharist. He says, the Eucharist is not just the 1993 02:13:48.279 --> 02:13:50.800 body and blood of some man, it's the body and 1994 02:13:50.840 --> 02:13:55.720 blood of God himself. Therefore it's participating in the uncreated energies. Right, 1995 02:13:55.800 --> 02:13:59.159 this is what Maximus argues against purists, It's what the 1996 02:13:59.199 --> 02:14:02.159 Sixth Council is teaching. It's what Book three of Saint 1997 02:14:02.239 --> 02:14:05.520 John Damascus argues in on the Orthodox Faith. And it's 1998 02:14:05.800 --> 02:14:12.720 clearly once again contrasted here with Christ's soul is endowed 1999 02:14:12.760 --> 02:14:17.800 with the fullness of created habitual grace. His human soul obviously, right, 2000 02:14:19.119 --> 02:14:23.760 that's created grace. And when we get again, when we 2001 02:14:23.840 --> 02:14:27.840 get to the to the list from Aught, we're going 2002 02:14:27.920 --> 02:14:29.720 to go through every one of the points that Ought 2003 02:14:29.840 --> 02:14:33.039 talks about to see that I am right and you 2004 02:14:33.199 --> 02:14:35.159 are wrong. And we will go to a bunch of 2005 02:14:35.279 --> 02:14:45.439 other Catholic authorities and writers to look at the what 2006 02:14:45.640 --> 02:14:51.479 exactly it means when they say created grace. So let 2007 02:14:51.560 --> 02:14:57.039 me see if we so people are saying that within 2008 02:14:57.199 --> 02:14:59.800 the drag as essay, there's a link that's broken and 2009 02:15:00.000 --> 02:15:02.600 and yes, that is an old website, So I would 2010 02:15:03.199 --> 02:15:09.840 try a wayback machine because most of the time when 2011 02:15:09.840 --> 02:15:11.479 I've had I've had to do that with this site. 2012 02:15:11.520 --> 02:15:13.680 In GeoCities type site before. Most of the time I've 2013 02:15:13.720 --> 02:15:19.399 been able to find whatever link was broken with way back. 2014 02:15:20.560 --> 02:15:28.840 But let's see, it looks like there's what's the part 2015 02:15:28.920 --> 02:15:30.880 that I mean, the essay is here, what's the part 2016 02:15:30.960 --> 02:15:39.600 that's broken that matters? So you're talking about the first 2017 02:15:39.640 --> 02:15:42.319 link that's at the very top. That's just the same essay, right, 2018 02:15:42.600 --> 02:15:44.880 It used to be at I think that was tr 2019 02:15:45.000 --> 02:15:48.199 Valentine's site. He used to have all these orthodox essays up, 2020 02:15:48.279 --> 02:15:53.920 so orthodox outlet for dogmatic inquiries. This old site just 2021 02:15:54.039 --> 02:15:59.039 mirrors the essay, So it's not the broken link is 2022 02:15:59.119 --> 02:16:02.760 not a substantial link unless you mean something within the 2023 02:16:02.920 --> 02:16:07.439 essay that I'm not that I'm not seeing. But no, 2024 02:16:07.600 --> 02:16:10.880 as well, by the way that in that essay, Photius, 2025 02:16:11.119 --> 02:16:17.079 Saint Photius says that the Bulgarian missionaries were Franks spreading 2026 02:16:18.640 --> 02:16:20.960 the Philly oquay, and he does not mean Franks in 2027 02:16:21.039 --> 02:16:25.479 a generic sense of Westerners. He means Charlemagne Franks. He 2028 02:16:25.600 --> 02:16:29.920 makes it clear somebody was challenging me on that too, 2029 02:16:30.000 --> 02:16:35.760 and I was right. Okay, So we got these points 2030 02:16:35.799 --> 02:16:40.040 on sanctifying grace that we want to get to. Uh 2031 02:16:40.559 --> 02:16:42.799 now again, I promise you that we are going to 2032 02:16:42.959 --> 02:16:47.959 do a talk where we go through the papal claims 2033 02:16:48.040 --> 02:16:49.639 claimed by claim of claim like the big ones, the 2034 02:16:49.639 --> 02:16:52.239 important ones. But what we wanted to focus on today 2035 02:16:52.440 --> 02:17:03.719 was the circularity. So now on the question of individual 2036 02:17:03.840 --> 02:17:11.799 certitude and the teaching of the Holy Spirit. Let's see, 2037 02:17:11.840 --> 02:17:13.959 I wanted to make a few points on this because 2038 02:17:18.600 --> 02:17:20.799 let's see I was making I had a discussion with 2039 02:17:21.239 --> 02:17:26.079 Lewis about this I wanted to make. So he was 2040 02:17:26.120 --> 02:17:28.959 asking a question like, so, how would we respond to 2041 02:17:29.159 --> 02:17:31.639 like a Roman Catholic or a Protestant, Like if we're 2042 02:17:31.639 --> 02:17:33.639 making this argument about the Roman Catholic, then it sounds 2043 02:17:33.719 --> 02:17:35.799 like we are saying the Protestant view, like, oh, it 2044 02:17:35.879 --> 02:17:38.360 was just the Holy Spirit. God's the individual. Well, again, 2045 02:17:38.479 --> 02:17:41.479 there's no magic formula to know true truth or falsehood 2046 02:17:41.600 --> 02:17:45.479 apart from directly knowing God. And in fact, there's a 2047 02:17:45.600 --> 02:17:47.840 statement from Saint Gregor Palamus where he says essentially that 2048 02:17:47.920 --> 02:17:52.079 same thing. He says, there's no there's no external phenomenon 2049 02:17:52.120 --> 02:17:56.079 out there that's going to grant you the certitude that 2050 02:17:56.120 --> 02:18:01.840 you get from revelation. So there's this is why it's 2051 02:18:01.840 --> 02:18:05.600 an initiatory religion and experience and not a rational one. 2052 02:18:05.680 --> 02:18:09.799 I'm not saying that it's irrational, but it does transcend rationality. 2053 02:18:09.959 --> 02:18:13.120 It doesn't mean you can't have certitude, but certitude is 2054 02:18:13.200 --> 02:18:17.040 a gift of grace that comes in the context of 2055 02:18:17.079 --> 02:18:20.239 the Church. So there's no way to grant that certitude 2056 02:18:20.879 --> 02:18:24.159 merely by reason to people outside of the experience of 2057 02:18:24.239 --> 02:18:28.239 God directly. So that's why it really is a direct 2058 02:18:28.399 --> 02:18:32.360 perception knowing of truth and God directly. Now does that 2059 02:18:32.600 --> 02:18:37.000 mean that we're gnostics and we don't have any created 2060 02:18:37.559 --> 02:18:42.319 phenomena that's involved in this religion. Do we just forsake 2061 02:18:42.360 --> 02:18:45.840 everything created and like retreat into some gnostic thing. No, 2062 02:18:46.719 --> 02:18:53.040 because Christ took on matter, right, He's sanctified matter, So 2063 02:18:54.959 --> 02:18:59.920 we would say then, I think that if the individual 2064 02:19:01.040 --> 02:19:04.600 can know directly, and he can, then we've already kind 2065 02:19:04.639 --> 02:19:08.920 of made ground and made progress, even in contrast to 2066 02:19:10.799 --> 02:19:13.840 the Roman Catholic system, And the Roman Catholic is already 2067 02:19:13.879 --> 02:19:17.040 halfway agreeing with us, because again, the pragmatic point of 2068 02:19:17.079 --> 02:19:21.559 the papacy was so that the individual could know truth right. 2069 02:19:22.680 --> 02:19:25.600 So we're agreeing that the individual can at least to 2070 02:19:25.680 --> 02:19:27.879 some degree come to truth right, and we're agreeing with 2071 02:19:28.079 --> 02:19:29.799 the product the Protestant says the same thing, Yes, the 2072 02:19:29.840 --> 02:19:33.280 individual can know true. Okay, So what happens is that 2073 02:19:33.399 --> 02:19:36.639 we get the idea, as we said earlier, of the 2074 02:19:36.719 --> 02:19:40.040 self evident, neutral maxims that are supposed to be the 2075 02:19:40.120 --> 02:19:43.440 judges of the truth. That's where it starts to be 2076 02:19:43.440 --> 02:19:45.200 a problem for the Roman Kulic because there aren't self 2077 02:19:45.239 --> 02:19:49.680 evident maxims that aren't theory laden. They are, So as 2078 02:19:49.760 --> 02:19:51.879 a Roman Catholic, you can't, on the one hand, adhere 2079 02:19:51.959 --> 02:19:58.120 to a foundationalist classical foundationalist epistemology of neutral, non theory 2080 02:19:58.239 --> 02:20:01.520 laden beliefs and then turn around and say that ultimately 2081 02:20:01.639 --> 02:20:05.159 the individual can know truth. So what we're disagreeing on 2082 02:20:05.520 --> 02:20:09.840 ultimately is the means. And when we start to ask 2083 02:20:09.879 --> 02:20:11.840 the question of the means, it comes down to a 2084 02:20:11.959 --> 02:20:15.680 difference of epistemology and a difference of anthropology. That's why 2085 02:20:15.760 --> 02:20:19.120 I mentioned the doctrine of the news, because that's the 2086 02:20:19.200 --> 02:20:22.040 one thing that the Roman Catholics the Processts don't have. 2087 02:20:23.440 --> 02:20:26.319 They both believe in the exact same dichotomy doctrine of man, 2088 02:20:26.920 --> 02:20:32.280 that man is a being with body and intellect, and 2089 02:20:32.440 --> 02:20:36.079 that knowing God involves. For the Thomas, the analogia entus 2090 02:20:36.360 --> 02:20:40.959 knowing created effects and never God directly himself. There's no 2091 02:20:41.079 --> 02:20:43.680 doubt about that. Again that even I think was at 2092 02:20:43.719 --> 02:20:46.200 one point pretty clear in the discussion with classical theists 2093 02:20:46.280 --> 02:20:50.399 is that we're not ever knowing and experiencing God himself directly. 2094 02:20:51.040 --> 02:20:56.559 It's always only created effects. So even if they say 2095 02:20:56.600 --> 02:20:58.799 that the real presence is in the Eucharist, it doesn't 2096 02:20:58.799 --> 02:21:01.000 really matter because you're not really going to God because 2097 02:21:01.040 --> 02:21:05.079 you're still only getting created effects. It also makes no 2098 02:21:05.159 --> 02:21:07.040 sense to say the Eucharist is the essence of God. 2099 02:21:07.079 --> 02:21:10.440 That's crazy. Nobody believes that, although they're confused about it. 2100 02:21:10.559 --> 02:21:13.200 That's the point. So what we're ending up differing on 2101 02:21:14.239 --> 02:21:17.719 is the means that God has chosen for us to 2102 02:21:17.799 --> 02:21:23.600 come to, and no religious truth. Even the Roman Catholic 2103 02:21:23.600 --> 02:21:25.639 will agree that the Holy Spirit has a role in 2104 02:21:25.760 --> 02:21:30.319 teaching the individual. So it's a question of the means 2105 02:21:30.680 --> 02:21:33.520 that's the real point of departure, and not just the 2106 02:21:33.639 --> 02:21:35.719 means that God has ordained to bring us to truth, 2107 02:21:36.840 --> 02:21:41.360 but the anthropology to get to that truth. So Rome 2108 02:21:41.360 --> 02:21:44.840 has analogia entus, the analogy of being for knowing and 2109 02:21:45.200 --> 02:21:48.120 predicating about God right the divine names, even though in 2110 02:21:48.159 --> 02:21:51.040 the divine names, by the way, Dionysius says their energies 2111 02:21:51.440 --> 02:21:55.159 right as I showed you in the thing I tweeted, 2112 02:21:55.399 --> 02:21:57.000 I have to I mean again, just go read the 2113 02:21:57.000 --> 02:21:59.799 divine names instead of trying to argue with me. People 2114 02:21:59.840 --> 02:22:03.200 need to read these actual documents. There's three places where 2115 02:22:03.239 --> 02:22:05.840 he talks about the energies in the divine names Dinasius. 2116 02:22:05.920 --> 02:22:09.959 That is point being Quitas relies on Dinysius pretty heavily. 2117 02:22:10.079 --> 02:22:14.120 That's why I'm bringing them up. But instead of the 2118 02:22:14.159 --> 02:22:19.159 analogia inis and created grace in Rome for knowing God 2119 02:22:19.760 --> 02:22:24.040 and experiencing God, in Protonism, you have what's called analogia 2120 02:22:24.079 --> 02:22:27.879 fide in Algia of faith, by which they just mean 2121 02:22:28.079 --> 02:22:32.159 the Bible, the canon of the Protestant Bible, of course. 2122 02:22:33.920 --> 02:22:37.120 So what we have here is is two different schemes 2123 02:22:37.200 --> 02:22:42.760 of knowing God, analogia inis anologia fide. Orthodoxy doesn't believe 2124 02:22:42.760 --> 02:22:45.719 either one of these. Orthodoxy does have the Bible, it 2125 02:22:45.799 --> 02:22:49.840 does have a canon scripture, and it does believe that 2126 02:22:50.120 --> 02:22:54.239 that's the word of God in terms of Christ revealing 2127 02:22:54.319 --> 02:22:59.079 himself to us through that means. And we have an 2128 02:22:59.079 --> 02:23:03.319 analogia in the sense of the uncreated energies, right, the 2129 02:23:04.600 --> 02:23:07.159 operations that come down to us. Saint Basil says in 2130 02:23:07.200 --> 02:23:09.559 a letter two thirty four, whether God's wisdom, his justice, 2131 02:23:09.639 --> 02:23:12.760 his mercy, these energies are operations that come down to us. 2132 02:23:13.280 --> 02:23:17.040 We do. We can make an analogy to human operations, right, 2133 02:23:17.639 --> 02:23:21.000 uncreated light, you can make an analogy to created light. 2134 02:23:21.600 --> 02:23:25.120 They're not the same. But we can speak of God 2135 02:23:25.200 --> 02:23:30.280 as Father as an analogy to humans as father. So 2136 02:23:30.360 --> 02:23:33.959 there is a valid analogia in Orthodoxy, and this analogy 2137 02:23:34.079 --> 02:23:37.319 is taught by Saint Basil, is taught by Gregory Naziana Zeus, 2138 02:23:37.360 --> 02:23:40.440 It's taught by John Damascus very clearly in his book. 2139 02:23:41.120 --> 02:23:45.280 This shouldn't be debated. But there are a few small 2140 02:23:45.879 --> 02:23:47.959 areas of Orthodoxy that will say that there's not even 2141 02:23:48.040 --> 02:23:51.680 any apps. Roman idea says there's absolutely no analogia at 2142 02:23:51.680 --> 02:23:56.680 all period, which is not true. That's completely incorrect. That's 2143 02:23:56.719 --> 02:23:58.159 why he has to go so far as to say 2144 02:23:58.159 --> 02:24:00.360 that scriptures don't even matter. Can't you can't call the 2145 02:24:00.399 --> 02:24:01.959 Scripture as a word of God, because that would be 2146 02:24:02.040 --> 02:24:05.639 the sickness of religion and analogia. His error is in 2147 02:24:06.280 --> 02:24:10.399 mistaking the analogia entis for the logi. 2148 02:24:11.079 --> 02:24:11.200 Right. 2149 02:24:11.600 --> 02:24:15.520 So Saint Maximus says the analogy very clearly in his writings. 2150 02:24:15.559 --> 02:24:20.479 He says, the analogia is relevant to the energies, the 2151 02:24:20.600 --> 02:24:26.719 uncreated energies, and the uncreated logi the logo. So that's 2152 02:24:26.760 --> 02:24:31.319 the important difference, and that is related to the doctrine 2153 02:24:31.360 --> 02:24:38.559 of the news. Again unique to Orthodoxy and relevant too 2154 02:24:38.719 --> 02:24:43.079 because of both Protestantism and Roman Catholicism teaching created grace. 2155 02:24:43.520 --> 02:24:47.280 Let's stress that the Protestant is in no better position 2156 02:24:47.399 --> 02:24:50.159 than the Roman Catholic actually on this stuff, even though 2157 02:24:50.200 --> 02:24:52.239 they might think they're in a better position because they 2158 02:24:52.239 --> 02:24:55.360 don't believe in analogia entis. If they're like Calvinists and 2159 02:24:55.559 --> 02:24:57.920 they think they're skirting around that and they're saying, oh, 2160 02:24:58.000 --> 02:25:01.319 it's just the Bible, right, the canon scripture is our analogia, 2161 02:25:01.479 --> 02:25:05.399 our true analogy. It doesn't work because even still in 2162 02:25:05.479 --> 02:25:09.040 the Protestant scheme, you're never actually interacting with or touching 2163 02:25:09.120 --> 02:25:12.120 upon the Divine. There's no direct experience of the divine 2164 02:25:12.159 --> 02:25:15.799 at all. Ever, in that they also only believe in 2165 02:25:15.920 --> 02:25:18.879 created grace and created effects, because the Bible is a 2166 02:25:18.959 --> 02:25:22.079 created effect. So what the Roman Catholic tries to do 2167 02:25:22.920 --> 02:25:25.040 with the analogia of things out there in nature and 2168 02:25:25.079 --> 02:25:29.360 the analogia from scripture to the divine essence. Right, absolute 2169 02:25:29.360 --> 02:25:33.760 divine simplicity means that we are predicating analogies from creatures 2170 02:25:33.920 --> 02:25:37.559 up to the divine essence, which is nothing like creatures. 2171 02:25:37.600 --> 02:25:39.840 By the way, Paul says in next seventeen that the 2172 02:25:39.920 --> 02:25:46.879 divine Lussia is nothing like created things. But because of 2173 02:25:46.920 --> 02:25:52.680 absolute divince siblicity, the Roman Celics make this confusion. So 2174 02:25:54.360 --> 02:26:00.000 neither analogy andthis nor analogia feedde are correct. The analog 2175 02:26:00.520 --> 02:26:03.760 whether it's in scripture or whether it's in nature, are 2176 02:26:03.879 --> 02:26:06.680 according to Saint Maximus, according to Saint John Maamascus, according 2177 02:26:06.719 --> 02:26:10.520 to all of our teachers, the uncreated logoi the logie 2178 02:26:11.680 --> 02:26:17.079 that's the solution to this dilemma. And it's never going 2179 02:26:17.159 --> 02:26:19.520 to be solved by these guys until they actually just 2180 02:26:19.639 --> 02:26:22.680 do their homework, until you actually just read the Eastern 2181 02:26:22.719 --> 02:26:27.799 fathers themselves. You have to go and read them. There's 2182 02:26:27.840 --> 02:26:34.440 no other way around it. Okay, So I'm gonna take 2183 02:26:34.559 --> 02:26:37.479 questions because I'm sure there's gonna be a million questions. 2184 02:26:40.120 --> 02:26:42.159 And again we are this is just the talk on 2185 02:26:42.440 --> 02:26:46.079 circularity and epistemic claims. This is not the talk on 2186 02:26:47.600 --> 02:26:53.200 the various misuses of papal stuff. But let's talk about 2187 02:26:53.440 --> 02:26:57.280 created grace, because this came up again. So we've been 2188 02:26:57.319 --> 02:27:00.200 talking about the creative grace. I'm saying that the Roman 2189 02:27:00.280 --> 02:27:03.000 Catholic and the Protestant both have the created grace problem. 2190 02:27:04.479 --> 02:27:09.040 The Roman Catholic position is not unclear and it's not undogmatic. 2191 02:27:09.239 --> 02:27:13.520 Let's take one. This is father Barker Baker. I've got 2192 02:27:13.600 --> 02:27:15.920 it listed on the well here. If I don't say 2193 02:27:15.959 --> 02:27:17.760 the exact name right, they'll say I've made it up. 2194 02:27:19.000 --> 02:27:23.479 Let's see, it's all got to be very precise. Real 2195 02:27:23.680 --> 02:27:34.239 is made up? Father? What is this guy's name? Barker fundamentals? 2196 02:27:34.239 --> 02:27:44.479 Loos is only three? By ignacious press? What is sanctifying grace? Justifica? 2197 02:27:44.520 --> 02:27:46.959 And you'll notice by the way he uses almost all 2198 02:27:47.000 --> 02:27:52.200 the exactament terminology I used in the discussion with uh 2199 02:27:52.920 --> 02:27:56.440 classical theists, except that again I misspoke, and I said 2200 02:27:57.879 --> 02:28:01.520 created if you used subs and not accent. Again, it 2201 02:28:01.600 --> 02:28:04.319 doesn't matter, because the force of the argument still holds 2202 02:28:05.120 --> 02:28:07.959 justification as the spiritual process by which a person through 2203 02:28:08.000 --> 02:28:12.360 faith in Christ receives sanctifying grace of God. We've already 2204 02:28:12.399 --> 02:28:18.000 considered the major aspects of actual grace in this essay, 2205 02:28:18.120 --> 02:28:19.719 which we will look into, and then so we will 2206 02:28:19.760 --> 02:28:21.799 look into the ess to the issue of Saint Frankrace. 2207 02:28:22.000 --> 02:28:23.920 The question we want to answer is what is it? 2208 02:28:24.559 --> 02:28:27.680 Baltimore Catechism says that the grace of God confers in 2209 02:28:27.799 --> 02:28:31.840 our soul's new life, that is, as sharing in the 2210 02:28:31.920 --> 02:28:33.840 life of God himself. Oh oh no, wait a minute, 2211 02:28:34.600 --> 02:28:37.799 the life of God isn't created, is it? No, God's 2212 02:28:37.879 --> 02:28:42.399 life is uncreated? Question one eleven. What is this new life? 2213 02:28:42.959 --> 02:28:46.079 Is it a created gift of God to men? And 2214 02:28:46.200 --> 02:28:48.520 notice how clear and simple and straightforward they are. Right, 2215 02:28:48.559 --> 02:28:53.799 They don't launch into endless nonsense. They just outright say 2216 02:28:53.959 --> 02:28:56.559 what's very obvious and what any Roman Catholic would say 2217 02:28:56.559 --> 02:28:59.639 when you go ask them, Go ask any priests and 2218 02:28:59.680 --> 02:29:02.559 they'll tell tell you this or is it the communication 2219 02:29:02.680 --> 02:29:07.200 of God himself? Now? Remember how I argued from Trent right, 2220 02:29:07.319 --> 02:29:09.200 and those guys didn't even know that what I was 2221 02:29:09.639 --> 02:29:11.799 that I was quoting was from Trent. The guys on 2222 02:29:11.879 --> 02:29:14.040 Twitter losing their shit, They thought that they got me 2223 02:29:14.760 --> 02:29:18.680 and the quote was actually Trent itself talking about the Canons, 2224 02:29:18.719 --> 02:29:20.559 and they thought I made it up. No, I got 2225 02:29:20.559 --> 02:29:23.079 it from Denzinger seven ninety nine. Because I've read Denzinger twice. 2226 02:29:23.959 --> 02:29:25.719 It doesn't mean, by the way, I might not misstate 2227 02:29:25.719 --> 02:29:28.840 a word every now and then. Right, the most common 2228 02:29:28.879 --> 02:29:32.120 opinion on Catholic theologians is that sanctifying grace is a created, 2229 02:29:32.360 --> 02:29:37.639 supernatural gift. We're talking about the gift itself, the grace itself. 2230 02:29:37.760 --> 02:29:40.360 We are not talking about the bread and wine and 2231 02:29:40.399 --> 02:29:44.399 the Eucharist. We're not talking about waters of baptism. We're 2232 02:29:44.479 --> 02:29:48.280 not talking about an angel. Okay, because every Roman Catholic 2233 02:29:48.360 --> 02:29:50.639 he tries to deal with this, We'll say, well, but 2234 02:29:50.719 --> 02:29:54.159 there's created things that are grace, therefore it's created grace. No, 2235 02:29:54.360 --> 02:29:58.200 we're talking about the gift itself. We're not talking about 2236 02:29:58.639 --> 02:30:01.559 water and bread and wine. We're not talking about sacraments. 2237 02:30:02.399 --> 02:30:07.760 The grace itself is conferred on the believer, and it 2238 02:30:07.879 --> 02:30:13.200 is really distinct from God. Can you read that? The 2239 02:30:13.280 --> 02:30:17.319 Council of Trent said, the sanctifying grace is God's justice, 2240 02:30:17.600 --> 02:30:20.920 not by means of which he himself is just, but 2241 02:30:21.000 --> 02:30:23.360 by which He makes us just. So it is not 2242 02:30:23.719 --> 02:30:27.879 God's justice or righteousness, or love or glory. Can you 2243 02:30:28.040 --> 02:30:30.920 get this through your thick Roman Catholic skulls? It is 2244 02:30:31.120 --> 02:30:38.159 not God's justice. It is a created, supernatural gift created. 2245 02:30:38.360 --> 02:30:41.360 Can you read that? And every Roman Catholic I ever 2246 02:30:41.440 --> 02:30:45.719 asked says the same thing. And then they go on 2247 02:30:45.799 --> 02:30:47.920 to say, well, but it does prepare you for the 2248 02:30:47.959 --> 02:30:53.520 participation in the divine nature. Now, wait a minute, those 2249 02:30:53.559 --> 02:30:56.159 two things don't make sense because the divine nature is 2250 02:30:56.239 --> 02:31:01.360 not created. Now why are the confused on this? Because 2251 02:31:01.520 --> 02:31:04.760 of absolute divine simplicity? And because the Roman Catholic Church 2252 02:31:04.879 --> 02:31:08.879 rejects the essen synergy distinction? Okay, not rocket science. This 2253 02:31:09.040 --> 02:31:11.079 is not hard to get. It's not hard to figure out. 2254 02:31:15.399 --> 02:31:20.799 What does Father Harden say? Now, I don't feel like 2255 02:31:23.360 --> 02:31:26.000 this is on my wall in the group. I tweeted 2256 02:31:26.040 --> 02:31:30.440 all this stuff. So if you want, if you think 2257 02:31:30.479 --> 02:31:34.600 I'm making it up, I don't feel like clipping every 2258 02:31:34.639 --> 02:31:38.440 single one of these pages, you can just go and 2259 02:31:38.559 --> 02:31:40.360 find the quote in Father Harden. I mean this is 2260 02:31:40.399 --> 02:31:43.799 a common book too. Everybody's familiar with Father Harden's Catechism 2261 02:31:45.280 --> 02:31:47.920 used to be in every bookstore. Even secular bookstores carry 2262 02:31:47.959 --> 02:31:54.120 this catechism. What is creative grace? It is something create? 2263 02:31:54.239 --> 02:31:56.600 What is sanct fying grace? Something created giving to us 2264 02:31:56.639 --> 02:31:59.440 by God which gives us a created likeness of God's 2265 02:31:59.479 --> 02:32:03.600 nature and life. Uh oh, exactly. It is a supernatural 2266 02:32:03.639 --> 02:32:10.280 gift infused see into our soul, a positive reality, spiritual, 2267 02:32:10.520 --> 02:32:16.200 supernatural and invisible. It's a created, supernatural gift. It is 2268 02:32:16.360 --> 02:32:26.399 not God's nature, likeness or justice. It is created. There's 2269 02:32:26.399 --> 02:32:31.639 only two types of things, created and uncreated. So that's 2270 02:32:31.680 --> 02:32:37.840 Father Harden's book. I'm not misquoting it. You can go 2271 02:32:37.959 --> 02:32:47.760 look for yourself. This is uh the Bishop of I 2272 02:32:47.879 --> 02:32:52.360 just went through listing all the different typical teachings that 2273 02:32:52.440 --> 02:32:59.079 I could find. The Bishops of Australia have a lengthy 2274 02:32:59.399 --> 02:33:05.280 essay on grace and if you want the links, they're 2275 02:33:05.280 --> 02:33:07.559 all on the page. This is not even controversial. It's 2276 02:33:07.600 --> 02:33:13.479 like you guys are trying to trap me, play gotcha 2277 02:33:13.639 --> 02:33:16.280 on something that's not even that controversial. So what if 2278 02:33:16.319 --> 02:33:18.920 I use the wrong word? If the point is that 2279 02:33:19.200 --> 02:33:23.959 it's still created, bro, what does what do the Bishops 2280 02:33:23.959 --> 02:33:28.520 of Australia say? By the way, if if if it's 2281 02:33:30.319 --> 02:33:34.479 if the Romanchanic Church is the true Church. Why can't 2282 02:33:34.520 --> 02:33:37.639 they just say the uncreated grace, like the sixth Council 2283 02:33:37.680 --> 02:33:45.079 in John Damascus, in Saint Maximus against Piros, say why 2284 02:33:45.120 --> 02:33:47.559 do we have to have all this confusion? Why can't 2285 02:33:47.559 --> 02:33:51.120 they just know that every church father in the East, 2286 02:33:51.280 --> 02:33:55.479 who dominated all those councils, teaches uncreated grace and Theosis. 2287 02:33:55.600 --> 02:33:57.200 Half of these guys don't even know what you're talking about. 2288 02:33:57.200 --> 02:33:59.040 You top theos. I've had Roman Catholics at the time 2289 02:33:59.079 --> 02:34:02.440 you say theosis, they think you're talking about paganism.