WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.200 Yeah, and it's twenty Like I've built across bitcoin, XRP 2 00:00:03.399 --> 00:00:08.080 and ethereum. And you know, obviously, when I was like 3 00:00:08.759 --> 00:00:11.000 at Ripple, I was doing like far more work, Like 4 00:00:11.400 --> 00:00:13.000 I don't know if you know David Schwartz, but I 5 00:00:13.039 --> 00:00:15.519 like co authored another protcol with him. When I was there, 6 00:00:15.519 --> 00:00:18.399 I was like deep in the Ripple ecosystem. Honestly, I 7 00:00:18.559 --> 00:00:20.399 like still am. I know a lot of the like 8 00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:23.879 people who are more like leadership positions there and touch 9 00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:25.000 base pretty regularly. 10 00:00:30.120 --> 00:00:32.280 This episode is brought to you by bitgo, which is 11 00:00:32.280 --> 00:00:34.719 a top tier crypto custodian that has been in the 12 00:00:34.759 --> 00:00:38.079 industry since twenty thirteen. 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They're giving away 32 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:49.439 at least one bitcoin every quarter, So if you sign 33 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:51.640 up and have funds on the platform through the last 34 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:55.000 day of each quarter starting December thirty first, twenty twenty four, 35 00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:58.079 you can be eligible to win some free bitcoin. 36 00:01:58.159 --> 00:01:58.400 Here. 37 00:01:58.519 --> 00:02:00.640 So if you'd like to learn more of by Bitgo, 38 00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:03.760 go to bitgo dot com. Link will be in the description. 39 00:02:04.319 --> 00:02:07.760 Hey everybody, welcome into the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host, 40 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:10.680 Tony Edward and my guest today is Austin King, who's 41 00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:14.039 the co founder of Omni Network and the CEO of 42 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:16.520 Omni Labs. Austin. Great to have you on. 43 00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:20.639 Yeah, I appreciate you having me on. Looking forward to this, Austin. 44 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:23.599 Excited to chat with you because you and the folks 45 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:27.199 at Omni are trying to solve the fragmentation issue that 46 00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:30.560 is caused by roll ups on the Ethereum blockchain. So 47 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:32.759 lots of questions about what you guys are doing, but 48 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:35.360 let's start with your background. Tell us about yourself, where 49 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:37.159 you're from, and what's your professional background. 50 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:42.599 Yeah, So I grew up in Indiana originally, and I've 51 00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:44.680 hopped around a decent amount since then. So I grew 52 00:02:44.759 --> 00:02:46.840 up in Indiana, I got into Harvard, So I was 53 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:49.599 living in Boston for like four years. Then I moved 54 00:02:49.599 --> 00:02:52.319 to San Francisco. Then I was nomadic for a couple 55 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:54.479 of years, and now I live in New York for 56 00:02:54.520 --> 00:02:57.199 the past three years. But New York saw them. Now 57 00:02:57.240 --> 00:02:59.520 at this point, I love living in New York. Our 58 00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:02.719 office is here where I'm at right now. Yeah, I 59 00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:06.759 really love New York. My professional background, I've always been 60 00:03:06.759 --> 00:03:09.719 in crypto. So when I was studying hmmuier science in 61 00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:13.240 the university, I really fell down the rabbit hole. And 62 00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:16.240 I always planned to build a company after I graduated. 63 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:19.280 So during my junior summer, I was like, I'm building 64 00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:21.560 a crypto startup. I don't know what it's going to do, 65 00:03:22.159 --> 00:03:24.080 but I am going to build a crypto startup. And 66 00:03:24.120 --> 00:03:26.759 so most of my senior year I was exploring what 67 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:29.000 I was going to build. And so this led to 68 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:32.000 my first company that I ran from twenty seventeen to 69 00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:35.159 twenty twenty. I sold that to Ripple, worked at Ripple 70 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:37.680 for a year so I could vest, and then yeah, 71 00:03:37.719 --> 00:03:40.240 I started Omni after that, and so Omnie's been in 72 00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:42.080 progress through about like three and a half years now. 73 00:03:42.120 --> 00:03:44.599 So it's like a pretty rapid fire of a view 74 00:03:44.599 --> 00:03:48.120 of like where am I from, what's my professional background? 75 00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:50.960 What was the company you built and sold to Ripple? 76 00:03:51.879 --> 00:03:54.319 So it was called Strata Labs, but it built a 77 00:03:54.400 --> 00:03:57.039 network called the inter Ledgery Network, which in many ways 78 00:03:57.039 --> 00:04:01.039 honestly was like a technical predecessor to me. So I 79 00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:03.000 kind of took like a first lap at this already 80 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:05.280 in the like twenty eighteen to twenty twenty era. But 81 00:04:05.319 --> 00:04:08.280 it's cool to see like how much the technology has 82 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:11.159 advanced since then and like we can do so much 83 00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:14.840 more with it now. So yeah, it's interesting like in 84 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:17.480 many ways, like I've actually utilized a lot of learnings 85 00:04:17.480 --> 00:04:20.199 from my first company to help us scale up on me. 86 00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:24.959 And were there any major learnings from a company like Ripple. 87 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:27.920 Obviously it's pretty high profile in the crypto industry to 88 00:04:27.959 --> 00:04:29.920 have an asset now XRP. I think it's like in 89 00:04:29.959 --> 00:04:32.800 the top four. They've had their SEC lawsuit, a lot 90 00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:33.920 of high profile things. 91 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:38.319 Yeah, honestly, a lot of learning lessons for sure. I mean, 92 00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:40.759 Ripple's hundreds of people. When I was there, I think 93 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:44.800 it was four hundred people. Now I think it's around 94 00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:48.839 one thousand people. But for me, because I built a 95 00:04:48.879 --> 00:04:52.279 company right after school, I didn't like join Facebook like 96 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:54.040 a lot of my friends or something, so I didn't 97 00:04:54.079 --> 00:04:56.439 have the experience of being at like a bigger corporation. 98 00:04:57.839 --> 00:05:00.759 But yeah, getting deeper into the XRP GO system and 99 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:03.800 kind of like understanding how the community thinks about XRP 100 00:05:03.959 --> 00:05:06.800 and like Ripple as an entity and the opportunity that 101 00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:09.959 Ripple has has a larger organization, especially with like a 102 00:05:09.959 --> 00:05:13.519 ton of capital firepower. It was cool to kind of 103 00:05:13.519 --> 00:05:15.560 like jump straight from just being a few people at 104 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:18.639 a small startup to a much bigger corporation with like 105 00:05:18.920 --> 00:05:21.839 a massive asset and like huge firepower to make things 106 00:05:21.879 --> 00:05:25.079 happen from the like talent perspective and the capital perspective, 107 00:05:25.879 --> 00:05:28.160 and then switching back into it and like building another 108 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:30.920 company a ton of like really interesting experiences there. 109 00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:35.199 You may have hinted on this or touch a bit 110 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:37.959 on it, but what was your first encounter with bitcoin 111 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:40.480 or blockchain or either or whatever it may be, and 112 00:05:40.519 --> 00:05:42.600 what was your ahamam? And when did it click for you? 113 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:47.839 Yeah, honestly, it clicked pretty soon after I got into it. 114 00:05:47.879 --> 00:05:51.519 So it was twenty seventeen. This was before the Ico 115 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:54.879 era where I just like I had a job at Microsoft, 116 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:58.000 but for whatever reason, my boss just it was an internship. 117 00:05:58.040 --> 00:06:00.480 He just told me that the main part already was 118 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:02.839 that I had a good summer and not that I 119 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:07.319 like did anything, and so he told me that, like, yeah, 120 00:06:07.480 --> 00:06:10.759 just make sure you like enjoy the summer. So like, okay, 121 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:15.160 And I sent the entire summer learning about crypto, and so, yeah, 122 00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:17.680 I didn't really do anything for myselft. I don't know 123 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:20.680 why they paid me, but yeah, I dove deep into 124 00:06:20.680 --> 00:06:24.399 the ethereum ecosystem, and I started like mining ethereum, buying it, 125 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:27.399 and I started programming or like teaching myself how to 126 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:31.519 program in solidity, and honestly, it clicked pretty quickly. So 127 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:34.639 it's kind of strange. My first exposure wasn't Bitcoin, it 128 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:38.160 was actually ethereum. But the thing that really clicked for 129 00:06:38.240 --> 00:06:41.519 me was I built what we would probably call it 130 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:43.759 dow today. It was a system where a bunch of 131 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:46.639 different people could like vote on what this like smart 132 00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:49.920 contract does, and to me, it just kind of clicked. 133 00:06:49.959 --> 00:06:53.439 It was like, oh, we can run governments on this scene. 134 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:56.600 Like we're seeing like a very infantile, like toy version 135 00:06:56.839 --> 00:06:59.399 of what this will become. But it is a way 136 00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:02.680 for people to socially coordinate across the world. It doesn't 137 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:06.120 matter like where you are. And so I don't know, 138 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:09.199 for whatever reason, like my values, like my background is 139 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:11.560 like really clicked with me, Like wow, this is like 140 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:14.879 a super empowering tool just for anybody across the world. 141 00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:18.240 So I was pretty sold once it like clicked, once 142 00:07:18.279 --> 00:07:21.879 I first started diving into like programming smart contracts, like wow, 143 00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:24.360 these are going to be super impactful systems for just 144 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:25.279 people everywhere. 145 00:07:25.480 --> 00:07:28.120 Wow, that's pretty amazing. You were really ahead of the 146 00:07:28.160 --> 00:07:30.800 curve there. As you mentioned, it's kind of like doos 147 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:35.040 and dows. We see growing an adoption and some local 148 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:37.759 governments I believe are building dows. I think Wyoming if 149 00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:41.879 I'm not mistaken, And it's fascinating you know that thought 150 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:46.319 that the future of government and people participating and maybe 151 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:51.079 keeping their government accountable could be through these DOW models, right. 152 00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:55.079 Yeah, yeah, I mean at this point in time when 153 00:07:55.120 --> 00:07:57.480 I would like tell people that I went back to 154 00:07:57.480 --> 00:07:59.800 Harvard after this and I would tell people like, Hey, 155 00:07:59.839 --> 00:08:02.240 this is incredible, like we're going to run governments on this. 156 00:08:02.360 --> 00:08:05.759 They're like, you're insane like that, like, what are you 157 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:10.519 talking about? That's a ridiculous thing to say. But obviously 158 00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:13.920 we're still like Wyoming has published a framework for legally 159 00:08:14.439 --> 00:08:18.120 recognizing doallnas at this point, so we have made tremendous progress. 160 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:20.639 But still I think we're very early in the journey 161 00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:23.360 of crypto at large. There's a ton of like huge 162 00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:27.439 opportunities for growth that I still see. So yeah, I 163 00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:29.639 still think it has a lot to like prove, But 164 00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:32.480 I am very grateful that we've made a ton of 165 00:08:32.480 --> 00:08:33.919 progress since twenty seventeen. 166 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:38.360 Absolutely, all right, let's talk OMNE. Give us an overview 167 00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:40.120 of OMNIE. What you guys are trying to do? What's 168 00:08:40.120 --> 00:08:40.679 your mission? 169 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:45.279 Yep? Cool. So the original reason we built OMNIE was 170 00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:48.159 actually because we built a DeFi protocol on Ethereum in 171 00:08:48.200 --> 00:08:51.480 the first place. So we built this DeFi protocol. It 172 00:08:51.519 --> 00:08:53.759 went really well. We hit fifty minutal TVL in like 173 00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:57.759 two days after launching. And this was earlier in the 174 00:08:57.759 --> 00:09:01.240 Ethereum ecosystem was like twenty twenty one, so there weren't 175 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:03.960 really any large scale roll ups out there. It was 176 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:07.080 like Arbitrum and Optimism had just recently deployed, and you 177 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:09.360 kind of had to be more deep into the research 178 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:13.000 to understand that like this, this roll up stuff is 179 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:16.919 the future of Etheroereum. If there is no roll ups 180 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:19.440 for the future, there is no Ethereum. Like this thing's 181 00:09:19.519 --> 00:09:22.200 just not going to work compared to like these alternative networks. 182 00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:25.679 And so effectively, what we were trying to do actually 183 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:28.840 was scale it so that we could bring our own 184 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:31.679 defive protocol across these different role ups. We still wanted 185 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:34.200 to access all the users in liquidity from the entire 186 00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:36.840 Theoryum ecosystem, So we were trying to solve this problem 187 00:09:36.840 --> 00:09:39.759 for ourselves. In the process of this, though, we were 188 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:43.080 talking with other teams and basically any other team that 189 00:09:43.159 --> 00:09:46.919 saw success on Ethereum L one was trying to think 190 00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:49.600 about how they don't get sidelined in the process as 191 00:09:49.759 --> 00:09:53.120 L two has become more prevalent. So it became like 192 00:09:53.120 --> 00:09:56.000 pretty clearly was like, oh, Okay, any team that has 193 00:09:56.039 --> 00:09:58.480 seen success on L one is thinking about this, and 194 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:01.080 this is not a problem that just we are facing. 195 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:03.440 It's the problem everybody is facing. So this is gonna 196 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:06.200 be a core problem for the future of the ethereum ecosystem. 197 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:08.279 So that's really where it came from. The north Star 198 00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:10.720 was like, make it super easy for people to build 199 00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:13.759 for all the users in the ethereum ecosystem. I think 200 00:10:13.799 --> 00:10:16.679 where we're going at large, though, is kind of like 201 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:19.159 a few steps past that. That's you know, we've grown 202 00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:21.759 a lot since then, and where I think the entire 203 00:10:21.759 --> 00:10:24.919 crypto industry at large is going is we're kind of 204 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:28.159 like stepping to a point where it's gonna we're gonna 205 00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:30.759 be able to onboard far more users because we're lowering 206 00:10:30.759 --> 00:10:34.840 the technical complexity to accessing blockchains today it's a mess. 207 00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:39.000 You have to think about wrapped assets, gas tokens, bridging 208 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:43.120 different chains and stuff. It's like people, those of us 209 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:45.039 in the space, you know, we can all were like, oh, 210 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:47.759 we we we know that you shouldn't use like this 211 00:10:47.879 --> 00:10:51.639 version of wrapped USDC because it's actually this like that's 212 00:10:51.679 --> 00:10:54.559 because we're deep and we're like djens and stuff when 213 00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:57.919 we get it. But onboarding more users, like it's crazy 214 00:10:57.960 --> 00:11:00.440 to actually expect people to like think about all those 215 00:11:00.440 --> 00:11:03.200 different things. And so where we're going at large, this 216 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:05.720 really started with like abstracting way the reality of like 217 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:08.759 different roll ups. But directionally, where it's going to go 218 00:11:08.879 --> 00:11:11.519 is like accessing crypto is going to look just like 219 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:13.879 using web too. It's going to look like just using 220 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:15.440 a website. You're not going to have to think about 221 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:18.600 sea phrases, gas or chains or any of that. You're 222 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:20.720 just going to like kind of accumulate assets as you 223 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:24.240 navigate the web. So directly, that's where we're going as 224 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:26.240 a company, and that's where I'm super excited about. 225 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:29.879 I want to make sure we break this down for 226 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:33.279 the folks who are new to the technology and asset class. 227 00:11:33.639 --> 00:11:36.279 So when we talk about rollups. We're talking about layer 228 00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:41.960 twos on Etherrem right, like you're arbitrum and all these others, right, yeah, correct, 229 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:44.919 And you guys are helping to bridge all of those 230 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:50.399 together to make it easy for folks to build on 231 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:53.360 on on etherorem or any of those respective rollups. 232 00:11:53.919 --> 00:11:57.200 M yeah, yeah, that's correct. So we have we created 233 00:11:57.240 --> 00:11:59.639 like scaling solutions where it's kind of like you have 234 00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:02.559 build computers on top of the computer like instead just 235 00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:05.519 a theory amount one, you have like optimism arbitrum based, 236 00:12:05.559 --> 00:12:09.080 and you have these other like individual scaling networks. The 237 00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:11.879 difficulty though, is that now people have to think about 238 00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:15.919 all those different computers, arbitron, optimism base, they have different 239 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:19.639 versions of assets, they have like different gas tokens and stuff. 240 00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:22.879 So what we're really focused on in the short term 241 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:24.879 here is making it so that people don't have to 242 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:27.480 think about that. But where that really positions us to 243 00:12:27.919 --> 00:12:30.240 like excel in the long term here is taking that 244 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:32.120 one step further and making it so that people don't 245 00:12:32.200 --> 00:12:34.320 have to think about chains at all or any of 246 00:12:34.360 --> 00:12:36.000 the complexities associated with this. 247 00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:40.080 So let's walk through a mock example. Let's say I 248 00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:44.519 want to build some NFTs, right and I want to 249 00:12:44.519 --> 00:12:46.960 do it on ETH, but I'm going to go through 250 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:51.600 OMNI what's that process like and is the NFT going 251 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:53.440 to sit on all the respective roll ups? 252 00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:57.279 Yeah, so you as a developer, the really cool thing 253 00:12:57.440 --> 00:13:00.840 is you can decide if you want it on all 254 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:04.000 these different rules. You can do that. You don't need 255 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:07.600 to though, but with OMNIME there's like decoupling where you 256 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:10.399 can still source. Like let's say people have to pay 257 00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:13.240 one ETH to get one of your NFTs. They can 258 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:18.120 do that on base Optimism arbitrump, even if you're even 259 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:21.080 if your NFT project is only deployed on ethel one. 260 00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:23.799 So it kind of like you can do whatever you 261 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:26.000 want as a developer. You can build your application the 262 00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:28.600 way that you want to, but that doesn't force the 263 00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:31.720 complexity onto the users. The users like you can go 264 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:34.200 get the users who have the ethon Optimism, same thing 265 00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:36.080 with arbitrump, and they don't need to think about the 266 00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:38.759 fact that the application is technically not in that same 267 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:41.720 goal in many ways, like honestly, the best way to 268 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:44.919 think about this is when you go to Google dot com, 269 00:13:44.960 --> 00:13:47.840 do you think about the fact that you might have 270 00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:50.399 just hit a server that is running in California and 271 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:53.200 I might hit a server that's running in Asia. No, 272 00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:56.120 we like don't think about that. Google dot com is 273 00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:59.440 powered by thousands of computers behind the scenes, but we're 274 00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:01.639 not forced to think about that like in the weeds 275 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:05.080 technical reality because it's abstracted way. That's where crypto is 276 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:06.039 going in the same way. 277 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:09.399 I've been thinking a lot about this and you mentioned 278 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:13.159 it earlier, the Web two interface, but Web three technology 279 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:19.039 behind it, and we need that so badly to bring 280 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:22.039 in like the next billion people or hit a billion 281 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:24.720 users because there's a lot of friction and a lot 282 00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:26.960 of people scared of the seed phrase items. So I 283 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:29.159 love I love the idea, and I love the mission 284 00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:31.679 you guys are want to solve that. So definitely definitely 285 00:14:31.679 --> 00:14:36.039 makes sense. Now, once again, I want to make sure 286 00:14:36.039 --> 00:14:37.879 I break this down for people who it's a new 287 00:14:37.879 --> 00:14:41.960 concept to them. So, are you guys a layer one 288 00:14:42.039 --> 00:14:44.320 blockchain or a layer three blockchain? 289 00:14:44.360 --> 00:14:44.919 That makes sense? 290 00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:46.200 How do you guys feel. 291 00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:49.519 That's the question? Yeah? Which layer is it? Yeah? So 292 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:53.080 it is a chain. It is the way that the 293 00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:55.759 omni network runs. Is it is a chain? Is it 294 00:14:55.799 --> 00:14:59.279 a chain like the staying network? Though? Are we trying 295 00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:02.440 to build up our own DeFi ecosystem on the OMNI 296 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:06.440 chain itself. No, that's not what we're trying to do. Omnie, 297 00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:09.799 in many ways, aggregates these other smart contract platforms where 298 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:12.320 these applications are deployed. So in many ways you can 299 00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:15.799 think about it as like an orchestration, aggregation layer, whatever 300 00:15:15.799 --> 00:15:19.120 you want to call it. Like, at a literal technical level, yes, 301 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:22.200 it is a chain, but it is not like an 302 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:25.279 all l one It was specifically designed so that people 303 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:27.600 didn't have to think about all l ones. They just 304 00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:30.080 like wanted to use an application, they can use the 305 00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:32.360 application and they don't have to think about where that 306 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:35.879 application is running. But yes, it is a technically it's 307 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:36.720 an l one chain. 308 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:40.919 Yes, okay, And then I noticed you guys have a 309 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:44.120 token call Omni. Tell us a bit about the tokenomics 310 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:44.559 around that. 311 00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:49.639 Yeah. Yeah. So it's a pretty unique model because downstream 312 00:15:49.639 --> 00:15:51.519 of this fact that we're not trying to build like 313 00:15:51.799 --> 00:15:55.600 an all l one ecosystem on our chain, the business 314 00:15:55.639 --> 00:15:58.879 model of the network itself. You know, every network has 315 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:03.480 like a you know, a model for like pulling in fees, right, 316 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:06.600 A lot of these are mostly just like what happens 317 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:10.200 on the chain itself. Omni is unique in the sense that, like, yes, 318 00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:14.399 you can transact on Omni's chain itself, and a lot 319 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:18.039 of these like intermediaries that like coordinate activity across these 320 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:21.279 different chains do that. But the additional way that it 321 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:24.240 can accru fees is by passing messages across all these 322 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:26.559 different networks. So it kind of has like an additional 323 00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:29.679 line and like opportunity to accreu fees compared to like 324 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:31.440 other chains that are out there on the market. 325 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:38.120 And then how are you facilitating growth like getting developers 326 00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:40.440 to come participate in people to build on on me. 327 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:44.799 Yeah, honestly, the answer to this one's pretty simple. I've 328 00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:46.879 been in space for like seven years at this point, 329 00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:48.960 I know a lot of the biggest projects, and so 330 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:51.440 we're kind of just like we kind of have a 331 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:53.799 pretty deep network to any team that we want to 332 00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:56.240 work with, like we have an open conversation with them. 333 00:16:56.240 --> 00:16:59.960 We don't really have to market to like pull in developers, 334 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:02.519 because all the teams that are like building the highest 335 00:17:02.600 --> 00:17:05.720 leverage projects, like we just know them at this point, 336 00:17:05.799 --> 00:17:07.880 and if we don't know them, we're like pretty good 337 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:10.599 at like being nimble and getting in touch with them 338 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:11.240 pretty quickly. 339 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:16.920 M Yeah. And to your point, the Ethereum ecosystem and network, 340 00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:19.440 there's a ton of building happening. I mean you just 341 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:22.920 see enterprise folks like even black Rock right issuing their 342 00:17:23.079 --> 00:17:26.519 first token I spun on etherorem There's so much happening, 343 00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:30.920 you know, do you do you envision that Etherum will 344 00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:34.000 be able to maintain this status as king of the 345 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:36.799 hill when it comes to smart contract blockchains? 346 00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:42.559 Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's a great question. I and 347 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:46.720 I don't know the answer. I think Solana is doing 348 00:17:46.759 --> 00:17:52.119 incredible work. But at large, honestly, I think where things 349 00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:56.160 are going is people will care less about specific chains. 350 00:17:56.359 --> 00:17:58.480 I think they're actually going to become far more attached 351 00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:02.920 to like applications large and those applications downstream are just 352 00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:06.079 going to use whatever smart contract development platform best fits 353 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:09.440 their needs. So I think over the long term here 354 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:13.960 economic network effects like liquidity, network effects and stuff will 355 00:18:13.960 --> 00:18:17.359 fade away because everything will move so seamlessly across these 356 00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:21.200 chains that like those barriers will effectively be broken down. 357 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:24.799 If I had to bet on one horse right now, yeah, 358 00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:27.799 it would be Ethereum. But it's honestly very healthy, and 359 00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:30.599 I am excited to see that the Salama ecosystem, for example, 360 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:33.920 has pulled in like so much attention. And then you know, 361 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:37.039 there are also kind of more like dark horses at 362 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:40.920 this point, like XRP. You know, they have captured a 363 00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:43.880 ton of the kind of more traditional mind shared there. 364 00:18:43.960 --> 00:18:47.839 So there are like these more younger, more creative, like 365 00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:51.480 playful applications being built on Slana and ethereum. But if 366 00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:53.559 you go if you're thinking more about these like black 367 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:56.839 rock types, there are these institutions like Ripple that have 368 00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:58.880 been around for a very long time and have like 369 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:01.359 deep relationships with all these entities, and I think that 370 00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:04.319 is like a huge point of leverage that they have. 371 00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:07.440 You know, it's funny. There's an interesting backstory which I'm 372 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:10.759 sure you know about with Vitallic and Ripple. And Ripple 373 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:12.640 I think back in the day they were working on 374 00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:15.319 Codius with the XRP ledger, which I would have enabled 375 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:18.559 smart contracts, but Eating to go that direction, and Eat, 376 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:23.000 you know, obviously boomed with the smart contract technology and 377 00:19:23.000 --> 00:19:24.880 the ability to do a lot of great things. So 378 00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:27.960 it's fascinating if they had one the folks that Ripple 379 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:30.000 had went in a different direction. What the world might 380 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:31.440 have looked like in a crypto space. 381 00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:35.920 Yeah, you know, some deep lore man. So, uh, Codius actually, 382 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:40.200 like my first company built the inter Ledger network. Codius 383 00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:45.119 was an original idea for like smart contracts, and so 384 00:19:45.319 --> 00:19:48.599 Stefan Thomas was one of the like ripples old CTO 385 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:50.880 who was like a mentor of mine in my first company. 386 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:54.079 And yeah, I worked super close with him in my 387 00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:54.680 first company. 388 00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:56.680 I interviewed him a couple of times, so it's pretty cool. 389 00:19:56.960 --> 00:20:00.160 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, So they had the idea for 390 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:02.240 Codius and like, okay, if we don't want to bind 391 00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:05.799 this tightly to XRP Ledger, we should create some like 392 00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:08.640 currency neutral way to pay for smart contracts. And that 393 00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:11.680 was Interledger. So that actually was like the network that 394 00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:15.240 I built that was like originally designed so that it 395 00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:20.559 could power this smart contract platform Codius. But when I 396 00:20:20.599 --> 00:20:24.079 built Interledger, we actually ended up tying together like bitcoin 397 00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:28.039 ethereum and the XRP Ledger. So yeah, you know, some 398 00:20:28.119 --> 00:20:30.400 deep wre man that's a while back. 399 00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:35.759 Yeah, it's fascinating and you just in hindsight you look 400 00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:37.240 at and you're like, wow, I wonder if they went 401 00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:40.400