Speaker 1: Okay, So have you heard about the Montak monster. Yeah,
washed up on a beach right out there on Long Island.
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty freaky looking thing.
Speaker 1: People have all these crazy theories about what it was.
Some even think it might be connected to.
Speaker 2: Plumb Islandum Island, huh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's right there, just a few miles off the coast.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 1: Officially, it's a research facility, you know, for animal diseases,
but there are all sorts of rumors like about secret
experiments and stuff.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I see where you're going with this.
Speaker 1: So we're diving into Plumb Island today. All the research
you've gathered, news articles, old documents, even some declassified government stuff.
Speaker 2: Sounds like we're in for a wild ride.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. So. On the surface, we've got this place, the
Plumb Island Animal Disease Center right right, and they're setting
some serious stuff there. Foot and mouth disease, African swine fever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, those are no joke. I mean, if an outbreak
of something like that ever hit devastating, right totally.
Speaker 3: Think about the two thousand and one foot and mouth
outbreak in the ukped out millions of animals, cost billions.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I remember hearing about that.
Speaker 3: So the research they're doing at Plumb Island, it's definitely
important for sure.
Speaker 1: But then you know, you start digging a little deeper
into the history of.
Speaker 2: This place, and what do you find.
Speaker 1: Well, it wasn't always about protecting livestock. Go back to
the nineteen fifties Cold War paranoia and.
Speaker 2: All that, So we're talking biowarfare exactly. Makes sense.
Speaker 3: During the Cold War, both sides were terrified of bioweapons.
Speaker 1: And Plumb Island it was right in the thick of it.
Speaker 3: So they weren't just studying these diseases, they were weaponizing.
Speaker 1: Them pretty much. Yeah. The idea was to target enemy livestock,
cripple their food supply, right.
Speaker 2: A way to wage war without firing.
Speaker 1: A shot exactly. And there's this, uh, well, some evidence
that suggests it wasn't just animal diseases they were looking at, oh,
a human body. They found it on the island.
Speaker 2: Hold on a human body.
Speaker 1: Evidence of some kind of invasive brain surgery.
Speaker 2: They say, that's chilling. What else do we know about this?
Speaker 1: Not much. It's all pretty hush hush still, but it
definitely makes you wonder if they were experimenting on humans too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no kidding, and it wouldn't be the first time
a government dabbled in that kind of dark science, right.
Speaker 1: Well, and then to add to all this, there's this
whole Nazi connection Nazis, what do you mean? Well, after
World War Two, you know, the US recruited all these
German scientists through this program called Operation paper Clip.
Speaker 2: Oh right, I've heard about that. They brought over rocket scientists, engineers.
Speaker 1: And bioweapons experts. One of them was this guy, Eric Traub,
specialized in using insects to spread diseases tics.
Speaker 2: In particular ticks, as in lyme disease tics.
Speaker 1: You're getting ahead of me, but yeah, Tis Traub. He
was working on this stuff back in Germany on an
island called Rheims.
Speaker 3: Island, weaponizing tics, huh, turning them into tiny little disease bombs.
Speaker 2: That's disturbing stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in both the US and the Soviets they picked
up on his research during the Cold War.
Speaker 3: So we have this biowarfare facility, possible human experimentation, ties
to Nazi scientists, and weaponized ticks.
Speaker 2: Where does lime disease fit into this?
Speaker 1: Well, that's where things get really interesting. In nineteen seventy five,
there was this security guard Ronnie. He was working near
Plum Island and he got bitten by a tick.
Speaker 2: What happened to him?
Speaker 1: He came down with all the classic symptoms of lime disease, bullseye, rash,
joint pain, fatigue, the whole nine yards.
Speaker 2: And this was near Plumb Island, yep.
Speaker 1: And it was just a few years after this massive
outbreak of African swine fever hit Cuba, first and only
outbreak in the Western Hemisphere.
Speaker 3: They say, I remember that devastated their pig population. Cuba
blamed the CIA claimed it was a deliberate attack, and.
Speaker 1: The CIA denied it, of course. But it all happened
right in the middle of Operation Mongoose. Operation Mongoose, the
CIA's covert op center to get rid of Castro, and
some of the plans for that they did include using bioweapons.
Speaker 3: So you've got a possible bioweapon attack in Cuba, a
security garden, your Plum Island contracting a new and mysterious disease.
The timing is pretty suspicious, don't you think?
Speaker 1: Suspicious? Yeah? And there are more connections. The scientists who
discovered line disease, doctor Willie Bergdorffer.
Speaker 2: What about him?
Speaker 1: He had a history of developing bioweapons for the US military,
specifically weaponized ticks.
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, the guy who discovered line disease was
also working on weaponized tics. That's a little too coincidental
for my liking.
Speaker 1: You're telling me. And then there's this little tidbit. Between
nineteen sixty six and nineteen sixty nine, the government released
over three hundred thousand research ticks into the wild.
Speaker 2: Three hundred thousand ticks? What were they thinking?
Speaker 1: And included in that release was the lone star tick,
a particularly aggressive species.
Speaker 2: The lone star tick. Isn't that the one that's been
spreading like crazy, yep all.
Speaker 1: Over the eastern half of the US, and with it
a surge in line disease and other tick born.
Speaker 2: Illnesses like alpha gool syndrome.
Speaker 1: Right, the meat allergy triggered by tick bites.
Speaker 2: Crazy stuff.
Speaker 1: Right, It's all pretty unsettling. It sounds like we're dealing
with the biowarfare facility with potential ties to human experimentation,
Nazi scientists, weaponized tics, and a possible connection to the
emergence of lime disease. It's a lot to take in, it.
Speaker 2: Is, and we're just getting started. Plumb Island.
Speaker 3: It's like this Pandora's Box of secrets and we're about
to open it up.
Speaker 2: And you know, Plum Island they're actually shutting it down soon.
Speaker 3: Really yeah, but get this, they're moving all the research
to a new facility in Kansas.
Speaker 1: That's interesting, but okay, So getting back to it, it
makes you wonder though, right, if things could go wrong
at Plumb Island, Oh yeah, for sure, then what about
other biolabs? I mean, are they really as secure as
we think they are.
Speaker 2: You'd like to think so, right, top scientists, strict protocols.
Speaker 1: All that, right, exactly, But even the best systems can
have flaws.
Speaker 3: You know, absolutely, human error, equipment failures, you name it.
And sometimes those mistakes they can have really serious consequences.
Speaker 1: Like what kind of consequences are we talking about here?
Speaker 3: Well, there's this case from a few years back, twenty twelve.
I think it was this young woman, Amy Copeland down
in Georgia.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I remember that.
Speaker 3: She was in the ziplining accident, got injured pretty badly, right,
I remember that, And she ended up contracting this flesh
eating bacteria Arimona's hydrophola.
Speaker 1: It's called Oh wow, that's aboutful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's nasty stuff. She ended up losing both
her hands in both her feet.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's just horrible.
Speaker 2: It was a terrible tragedy.
Speaker 3: But what makes it even more disturbing is that around
the same time, there were all these other cases of
this same bacteria popping up really yeah, in Georgia, South Carolina, Florida,
And when you map it out, it kind of looks
like they were clustered around the CDC headquarters in Atlanta.
Speaker 1: Hold on, are you saying there might be a connection
between this flesh eating bacteria and the CDC.
Speaker 2: It's certainly a possibility.
Speaker 3: And get this right, after Amy's accident, they discovered that
the CDC building in Atlanta had this major airflow problem.
Speaker 1: An airflow problem, What.
Speaker 3: Do you mean instead of drawing clean air into the labs,
you know, where they're working with all these dangerous pathogens, right,
the system was actually blowing contaminated air out into the
surrounding environment.
Speaker 1: No way, So they were potentially releasing dangerous bacteria into
the air.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a pretty big deal, and it really
raises questions about the safety protocols at these high level biolabs.
Speaker 1: And this wasn't the only problem that the CDC around
that time was.
Speaker 2: It not even close. They also had this whole thing
with anthrax anthrax.
Speaker 3: Seriously, they were improperly handling and shipping live anthrax samples
to labs all over the country.
Speaker 1: Live anthrax. How do you even mess that up?
Speaker 3: It was a major lapse in safety protocol, no doubt
about it. And as if that wasn't bad enough, they
also found vials of smallpox just sitting in an unsecured
refrigerator in one of their labs.
Speaker 1: Wallpox. I thought that was eradicated, it's supposed.
Speaker 2: To be, but there it was, just hanging out in
a fridge at the CDC.
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, that's some scary stuff right there.
Speaker 2: It really is.
Speaker 3: I mean, if these kinds of mistakes can happen at
the CDC, a place that's supposed to be the gold
standard for biosecurity, then where does.
Speaker 1: That leave us? Makes you wonder, doesn't it what's going
on in other labs around the world that might not
have the same level of oversight Exactly.
Speaker 3: It's a sobering thought and it really highlights the need
for more transparency and accountability when it comes to biolab safety.
Speaker 1: Couldn't agree more. We need to know that these labs
are operating safely and responsibly, not just for the sake
of the people who work there, but for the safety
of everyone. So where do we go from here? I mean,
how do we even begin to address this?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: I think the first step is transparency.
Speaker 1: Transparency, Yeah, we need to know.
Speaker 3: What's going on in these labs, what kind of research
are they doing, what safety protocols are in place?
Speaker 1: Right, Because if we don't even know what's happening, how
can we even begin to assess the risks exactly.
Speaker 3: And this transparency, it can't just be limited to you know,
government agencies and research institutions.
Speaker 1: Right, it needs to extend to the public.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: The public has a right to know what's happening in
these facilities that could potentially impact their health and safety.
Speaker 1: And knowledge is power, right, I mean, the more informed
people are, the more they can hold these institutions accountable.
Speaker 2: Exactly. But transparency alone isn't.
Speaker 1: Enough, right, So what else needs to be done?
Speaker 3: Well, we need to invest in better training for lab personnel,
more robust security measures, and most importantly, we need to
have comprehensive emergency response plans in place.
Speaker 1: So that if something does go wrong, we're prepared.
Speaker 2: To contain it and minimize the damage and all of this.
Speaker 1: It requires a real culture shift.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it's not just about implementing new rules and regulations.
Speaker 1: It's about fostering a culture of safety and accountability within
these institutions exactly.
Speaker 3: Everyone from the scientists to the policy makers to the
maintenance staff needs to be on board with this idea
that safety is paramount and.
Speaker 1: It can't just be a top down solution either, right.
Speaker 3: Right, It needs to be a collaborative effort. We need scientists,
policy makers, and the public all working together to ensure
that these labs are operating as safely and responsibly as possible.
Speaker 1: So it sounds like we're talking a pretty massive undertaking here.
Speaker 2: It is, but it's a necessary one.
Speaker 1: So you know, we've been talking a lot about Plumb Island,
right and like you said, they're closing it down, moving
the research to Kansas, YEP.
Speaker 2: To the National Bio and Agro Defense Facility.
Speaker 1: What do you think about that? I mean, is that
a good move?
Speaker 2: Well, it's a mixed bag really.
Speaker 3: Some people argue that having a more centralized facility will
improve efficiency and collaboration but then others worry about the
risks of having such a facility so close to major
livestock populations.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can see that.
Speaker 2: I mean, if something were to go wrong.
Speaker 1: The consequences could be devastating, exactly.
Speaker 2: So it's a tough call. Only time will tell how
it all plays out.
Speaker 1: So like we're walking this tightrope, right yea. On one side,
we have this incredible potential of scientific research, you know,
to cure diseases, to solve problems, to make the world
a better place. But on the other side, we have
these very real risks.
Speaker 3: The potential for accidents, for outbreaks, for things to go
terribly wrong.
Speaker 1: It's a delicate balance, it.
Speaker 3: Really is, and I think the key is to approach
this kind of research with both caution and courage.
Speaker 1: Caution and courage.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we need to be aware of the risks, but
we can't let fear paralyze us. We need to keep
pushing forward, but we need to do it responsibly and ethically.
Speaker 1: I think that's a great note to end on. This
has been a fascinating and at times a little bit unsettling,
deep dive into the world of Plumb Island and biolab security.
It has We've covered a lot of ground today, but
I think the main takeaway here is that we all
have a role to play in ensuring that scientific progress
is made safely and responsibly. Absolutely, we need to stay informed,
we need to ask questions, and we need to hold
our leaders and institutions accountable.
Speaker 2: Couldn't agree more.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you for joining us on this episode of
The Deep Dive. Until next time, stay curious, stay vigilant,
and stay safe.