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Speaker 1: The Detroit Pistons returned to the playoffs. They gave the

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Knicks a hell of a rock fight, including without Isaiah

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Stewart who was injured. By having for most of that

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series into the offseason for them, now, I think all

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of us, although I hit, we did, both of us hit.

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Their under a preseason doesn't matter.

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Speaker 2: We probably better do we expected them to basically like

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what was it.

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Speaker 1: Quintuple their win total of being deliberately hyperbolic and then

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like really holding up in the like the Knicks might

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not be the best barometer if you're looking to see

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how you fare against good teams, but that was a

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series like that very easily could have been a Pistons

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winning that series, Pistons in five, It could have basically

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been when you look at the margins. Now they go

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into the offseason, which I think, honestly, you're kind of

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exiting the honeymoon phase and this is where it gets

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really hard. It's okay, you've improved a lot, how do

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you get even better without doing something that's deemed to

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rash and could backfire in your face.

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Speaker 2: They're vitals.

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Speaker 1: They could have over twenty million in cap space. However,

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that just not include a cap hole for Tim Hardaway

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junior or Malik Beasley who's a non bird free agent.

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They can only give him one hundred and twenty percent

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raise off his current number, So if they're going to

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keep him, it's either a cap space thing or preferably

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like he only got six million this year, like the

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do you think the non tax payerramid level? So fourteen

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about will that be enough to keep him?

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Speaker 3: Normally? I would say no based on the year that

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he had. But maybe in this year's free agent landscape,

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you're at least competitive and he's gonna know. Although maybe

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it's the type of thing where he's like, hey, guys,

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I start now, if that's gonna be the number, and

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maybe it's a two plus one and it's not a

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full three year or something like that. I think it's possible.

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It's not, well, what, what is it more likely than

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not that he's back in your opinion? Because I think

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I lean towards it's like, it's more likely he's not

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back because someone somewhere might just you know, be willing

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to pay what Detroit can't him.

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Speaker 2: Here's my issue with that. Who's right?

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Speaker 3: That's the thing. I mean, Britain's not gonna do it.

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Speaker 1: There's Brooklyn and Detroit themselves are the teams that right

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now can carve out semi significant cap space. Now, I

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guess if you're Maligue Beasley and the Pistons are giving

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you fourteen points that if they're giving you the non

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tax payer mid level, if you have other offers with

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teams that you think are going to be better or

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maybe start give you a higher profile role, that gets

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interesting that What in turn, though, does that force the

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Pistons to say, well, we are going to prioritize having

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cap space that we can beat these other offers for.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, man, he's gonna be a really good test of

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of like is is the squeeze really on this summer

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or not?

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Speaker 1: And I think I think he's gonna stay or I'll

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say this, I think he ends up at mid level

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or less money. Yeah, so he leaves, it's because, like

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he it's not because the Pistons wouldn't pay him, It's

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because he wanted to leave. I really do think that

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the CBA is that damaging to the non star right maybe? Right?

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Speaker 3: Can I can I ask you a macro question before?

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Because no, but thank you for asking. Yeah, Okay, it'll

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be a micro question, but I'll just just think it's

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like a big micro question and it's kind of overarching.

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Uh So, coming out of that series against the Knicks,

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like questions answered, there were many, and most of them

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are with Kay Cunningham, Like, Okay, he's the guy.

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Speaker 2: We're good.

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Speaker 3: That's that's that, you know, hardest, hardest part handled. Check

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that box. In terms of like no doubt core pieces

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to like the next really good Pistons team, I'm willing

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to say a sar Thompson is in I think has

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I think strangely, Tobias Harris is not among those that

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I would throw in there. Duran is like he's coming

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closer and closer for me. But and then Jade and

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Ivy is the hardest one because just he wasn't involved

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and didn't play, and it will still be true a

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thousand years from now that we're gonna be like I

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really wish the Pistons had like a secondary creator that right,

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like all that stuff and like maybe that's him. Other

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than Caden sar Thompson, I don't have anybody that I'm like,

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definitely we're set, which is a weird place to be

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considering how good the Pistons were during the year and

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the fight they put up.

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Speaker 1: I'm with you, and I'm not to the point where

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it's because I don't think that Ivy and Durham should

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be locked in, or even Ron Holli it's actually locked

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in his core players that they need to go out

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and trade them right now.

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Speaker 3: But they're extension eligible.

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Speaker 2: Both of those guys are May and Ivy. That's the thing.

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Speaker 1: They're extension eligible, So you at least have to consider it,

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or you have to make sure. I mean, like those

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negotiations might tell us how much face the Pistons have

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in because I don't know. I don't know what you're

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supposed to pay any of these guys. We have the

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bigger sample size with Durham. Now, if he comes in

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it twenty two million a year, are you doing it.

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Speaker 2: The max is like thirty eight and a half or.

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Speaker 3: I think I probably would, So you're like four for

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just under one hundred basically with the Raises price center.

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Speaker 2: And if it's so it's four for one hundred, are

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you doing it?

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Speaker 3: I mean for Durham, Yeah, I think I might because

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because that that's a percentage of the cap by the

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end of that deal. What are we talking about? Like,

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you know that that's that's nothing for a guy that

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you that is a starter now on a playoff team

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that you should still think has another like X percent

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of growth given his age, right, Like, unless you're just

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always a lost cause he's never gonna be able to

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do the things he doesn't do. Now, I'm not quite

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I've been there on Duran. I don't know if I'm

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there right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So his deal would be comparable to Nick Claxton's,

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although Nick Claxton's is declining. But Nick Claxton signed the

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four year, ninety seven million dollar deal and by the

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end of it, because of how they structured it, it's

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gonna be worth eleven percent of the salary.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean.

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Speaker 1: So, but you you ratchet that up to like maybe

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thirteen or fourteen if it's flat or if you go

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with raises whatever. So I probably would do it at

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that number, but it's it's still a discussion, right, It's

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not just Yeah, I don't know he's important enough to

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the Pistons to pay him that money. I don't know

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how movable that deal would be if you tried to

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trade it, you know, a season from now, when he's

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not poison pilled.

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Speaker 3: Right, And that has as much to do with like

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the type of player he is in the position he plays,

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than than the the sheer percentage of the cap where

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it's like who's who's out there? Like we got it,

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We're a Jalen Duran away from whatever, Like that's that's

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a hard thing.

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Speaker 1: When it comes to Jane and Ivy, I don't even

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know how you sign him to an EXTENSI unless he's

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gonna undercut his own market, because I don't know what

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you pay him.

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Speaker 3: If he does extend, the Pistons will have gotten a

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team friendly deal, I think, just because like they should not.

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They just they can't do anything like a market or

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above market based on the injury, based on the uncertainty

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of like is he like the best version of the

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Pistons in two years? Like is Ivy He's probably not?

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Is he starting? Is he like is he in the road?

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Like the eight man rotation? I don't know. It's hard

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to say right now.

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Speaker 1: And so and I think if unless you just believe

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they're gonna let Malie Beasley walk or that he's gone,

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trade will be the vehicle through which they make them,

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They'll have the mid level and then they'll be able

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to make trades they have they can they control all

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their first round picks after this year.

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Speaker 2: Their twenty twenty five pick is headed to Minnesota.

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Speaker 1: What I think the question here is twofold, what are

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their biggest needs and how aggressive should they be about

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going to address them? And by that I mean I

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think you could say their biggest needs are, like, okay,

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the secondary creator we talk Denni Shooter is a free

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agent here by the way, too, that's not your tap

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space projection. They could use a secondary creator type you

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also would like still like like a bankable floor spacing,

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like a two way wing, because like a star, Tompson

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can be two way and so can run holl in

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his own way.

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Speaker 2: But those guys aren't hitting jumpers.

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Speaker 1: I believe Beasley he tried defensively this year, but it's

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just so you want that? Do you want a different

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type of look up front at all? Are you okay

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with Derren and Stuart? But I think like those are

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kind of the things you laser in on. And what

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I mean by how aggressive should they be, it's well,

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are you trying to see if you can plug a

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lot of them from within or maybe just using the

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mid level or are you taking to the trade market

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dangling first round picks and some salary maybe one of

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your young players and looking at what that gets you.

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And by that, I don't mean yo, if they got

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involved in like the Devin Booker or Giannis attend to

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coop post sweepstakes, that would be I would love either

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one of those two players here. I ultimately don't think

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that they would go that direction even if both of

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those players become available.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, is this a Cam Johnson team?

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Speaker 2: Oh, he'd be interesting here? Is he does he do enough?

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Speaker 1: Like defensively, because that probably cost you two first round picks.

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Unless the Nets like you giving Jade and Ivy in

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a first round pick for I'd probably do it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think i'd do it too. And like you know,

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you didn't think Tobias Harris was going to give you

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much on defense prior to the Knick series, and turns

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out he did. If Cam Johnson just like kind of

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your younger Tobias Harris uh minus like some of the

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individual creation stuff, but yeah, I think just the secondary creator,

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it's just we're gonna until they get some Like Shrewd

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was very important for this team. You know, like and

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that's not no. You know, Shrewder is a guy that

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like clearly didn't fit in Golden State, but can can

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handle this level of job for the right kind of

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team where he really is just like running pick and

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rolls and and like isn't in a you know, a

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bunch of read and react system type of environments. So

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someone like that ideally maybe with a little more size, uh,

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And then yeah, I don't, I don't. I don't have

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an issue with the big man rotation, assuming Stuart can

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be healthy and maybe get back to hitting outside shots.

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That would I mean if if if you had that,

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you're I'm good with the center spot. Like that's I'd

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be willing to check out Duraan for another year or

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two on an extension and then are longer than that.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know, but I'm just gonna say they

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would be I don't know how aggressive they would need

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to be, whether it's they create cap space and sign

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them or it's a sign and trade. They would be

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a really fun nas read destination, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, because he's giving you the offense that you

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really really want from Stewart. And then some is Stuart

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is Stewart a trade candidate because if you go, if

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you go extend Duran and and then Stuart's like, got

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a decent number after that extension that he signed, and

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like you could imagine a team talking themselves into like

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I think he could start for us. I think maybe

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the shot is actually there, and I think defensively there

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might be enough like you could see him having enough

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value to another team to where Detroit's like, yeah, we

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can use him to get two or three other you know,

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gaps filled that we have in our rotation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it might save you on the pick equity

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where it's like, Okay, the matching salary we're including has

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standalone value in itself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see that.

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Speaker 1: And then it's in theory, it's easier just to approximate

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backup big Man value on the cheap.

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Speaker 2: Then it would be, oh, we.

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Speaker 1: Need you know, a secondary creator for five million dollars

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a year or something like that.

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Speaker 3: Right, And it's hard to to know which way this cuts,

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but you know, because I think Stewart is fairly important

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to the sort of the identity that the Pistons have

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carved out for themselves, like we're incredibly tough, we will

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fight you that's like not an issue for us. Do

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you do you value that a lot as the Pistons,

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or do you maybe want to like, we already have

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Ron Holland that's ready to fight, Like we could probably

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do with that without one more agitator. So it's like

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moving Stewart actually has the benefit of like, Okay, we're

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gonna be a little like more chill and like that

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kind of thing. You might want him out of the

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locker room. I don't know. But then but then again,

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maybe the pistoner's like, no, he's the guy that like

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got us to play this way.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: He's definitely not untouchable, but I'd be curious to know,

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like how that if you trust Jayleen Duran to play

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eventually thirty plus minutes a night.

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Speaker 3: It'd be a big vote of confidence in him, which

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maybe they're not ready to make.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm curious.

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Speaker 1: I do think what feels like the most likely scenario

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is they operate as an over the cap team, bring

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back Beasley and with their exception, and then maybe they

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bring back even Shrewder since he'll be easy to keep

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with the the bird rights that he has, and then

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kind of like maybe they make a true like I

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just I do you expect them to do anything like

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to react to this season in a way that says nothing.

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Speaker 2: They would punt on development entirely.

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Speaker 1: But one of the young kids is gone as well

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as first like they they went not all in, but

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they went in on a trade.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think on the one hand, I think

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I do think you, like you said, the wind windows

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are short, like it's not. I mean, Houston's in the

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same position to Law to some extent, maybe even further

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along where it's like okay, now, you know, I think,

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But I don't think anything so like Ivy maybe in

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terms of like who they might like pry off of

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the core Stuart maybe, even though I don't even know

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that I put him quite in that same group. I

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guess you probably have to. He's not like it's not

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like he's you know, thirty years old. But but yeah,

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I don't think it goes beyond that, just because like

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you're not trading Thompson Kid's just the franchise now during

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there's I don't think the major you know, the guys

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I mentioned as like definite core or possible core are

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going anywhere.

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Speaker 1: I don't think, and I do think there might be

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people who are important if they don't try and like

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hit the turbo acceleration button here. I think in this case,

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kind of similar to what Houston did last year into

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this year, I actually believe that it's smarter, or it's

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at least safer, to like, well, let's see how good

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we really are with most of this group. Intact, we

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could reevaluate the deadliner. We can reevaluate in the twenty

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twenty six offseason. You're not, as you mentioned, windows close

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in the NBA very quickly. Theirs isn't fully open yet,

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and so I don't know what they worried. All their

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most important players are under team control, they're still super flexible.

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So I think that's the smart course to go, But

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it is tempting after watching the way that they played

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against the Knicks, like, no, just go out and get

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like would you do? I don't know what the math

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would have to be here. Maybe they have some cat

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flexibility with it, but like if it doesn't cost you picks,

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like just go get CJ. McCollum and add this is

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like okay, that really super Again with that, you're kind

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of saying, oh, we're not super confident in the j

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and Ivy experience.

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Speaker 3: Then well, yeah, which you know, I wouldn't blame them.

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I think like just the fact that like Cade right

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now is better than anyone on the Rockets for example, right,

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so like.

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Speaker 1: Just just are you about to say and I thought

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you said to anyone on the roster ver.

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Speaker 3: Well, just to use the Rockets comparison, because we keep

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bringing it up, and like you could probably I think

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you probably put him over Polo on Orlando just to

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continue going down the list of like, all right, are

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they maybe there, like they got the court. So the

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fact that Kate is at that level, and like I

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think that if you are gonna go like get a

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little bit irrational or a little bit over aggressive, I

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think in some ways it's easier to justify it for

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the Pistons because you have a guy that's like I

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don't know, if we're redoing all NBA right now and

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we're including like what we learned in the playoffs, like

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he's he's not moving down our list.

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Speaker 1: You know, Joe would be interesting if they, speaking of

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the Rocks, they end up declining Fred van Vleet's team option,

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he'd be interesting in Detroit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, that's that's a good like shrewder replacement slash

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upgrade maybe within you. Yeah, no, I think he's an

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interesting piece. I like him better than all him.

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Speaker 1: I'm also trying to think of like higher end or

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highish end options that wouldn't force you to mortgage everything.

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Speaker 2: They would.

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Speaker 1: I mean it could be wonky, but like they would

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kind of be a fun Zion destination, oh man, just

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as like a flyer on him. And again I'm not

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giving up the Ford, all the young players, all the picks.

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But if New Orleans ends up moving him where it's

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like if it took Jade and Ivy in a pick

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or something like, you would have to do it right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you would then, because then we revert to like

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I think Caid's probably better as like a secondary guy,

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which was a narrative on him for a couple of

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for up until this year.

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Speaker 1: Basically, would you because Fred van Fleet is different than

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Zion is probably the n id or close to it

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of his value, You're not going after like or maybe

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you would a LaMelo ball.

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Speaker 2: If he becomes available. You're not committing that type of resource.

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Speaker 1: Would the middle ground be like if the Bulls make

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Kobe White available.

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Speaker 2: Is that someone you're interested in pairing with Kaid?

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Speaker 3: Yes, definitely, I'm I'm on board with that, especially since

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like whatever defensive concerns you have about him are mitigated

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by Caid is capable of being an awesome defender, We've learned,

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and then you have Thompson and then you have Holland

364
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too on deck potentially, so you can onboard, Like I

365
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:14,399
don't know, if you just want to get real weird

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and let's let's exchange like, uh, you know, up and

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coming team players like could Jalen Green be the guy

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that you want next to Caid? Like someone like that

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that's just maybe you get. You get a little bit

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of Beasley plus Shrewder in him, and then some like

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I don't, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Ti Jerome free agent could be interesting if you trust

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Kid that much defensively.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well man, so tied Jerome is starting well.

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Speaker 2: I mean, even it's not, I think that they could

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carve it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the what's interesting about shooters, even when he's

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not been his most efficient or as best self, you

379
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just provide Kid Cunningham with in game breaks where he's

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not on the bench but he's off the ball. Yeah,

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and that to me is really valuable, even I don't

382
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know how much he would play Blake Lonzo from Chicago,

383
00:16:58,679 --> 00:17:00,399
like that would be that'd be fun as hell.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and credits a shrewder too, Like he's sort of

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00:17:04,559 --> 00:17:06,599
perfect for the role he's in in a lot of ways,

386
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because like all he wants to do is like give

387
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,839
everybody else a break and like go, like he's that

388
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is his hardwiring as like oh pick and roll, let's go,

389
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or just like I'm going to iso somebody, Like that's

390
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what he does well and what he wants to do.

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So it's like the perfect situation for him, and it

392
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has to be next to someone as good as Kid

393
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so that he doesn't like get into the Brooklyn mode

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of like it's my show, you know, like that it's

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00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,599
it's I really do hope they keep him the more

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00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,119
we talk about it, because I think he makes a

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00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:32,000
ton of sense there.

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Speaker 1: I And I also hope they keep him because I

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00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:36,519
think it would signal that they're not I mean, we're

400
00:17:36,519 --> 00:17:38,160
talking about trades, and if you told me they gave

401
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,160
up a young player non a SR Thompson Division plus

402
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,920
a first round pick in a trade, unless the.

403
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Speaker 2: Return is just terrible.

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00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,319
Speaker 1: I will likely be okay with them being that aggressive,

405
00:17:49,559 --> 00:17:52,200
but I want more information on this team and the

406
00:17:52,279 --> 00:17:56,039
jayde and Ivy injury, like really kind of it just

407
00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:57,799
muddies like how you're trying to like look at this

408
00:17:57,880 --> 00:17:59,119
team through through the future.

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Speaker 2: So I think get really good.

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Speaker 1: They have a ton of optionality, but I just I

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don't think it's time for them to hit like the

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accelerator just right.

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Speaker 3: And plus like forget the roster once once JB. Bickerstaff

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reaches his cap, they can just replace him with Kenny

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Atkinson and then they'll win like six cycle of events, right, Yeah,

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it's the life cycle of the NBA. All right, Thanks

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00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:21,400
everybody for listening, for watching, make sure your rated review

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subscribe five stars, many thumbs up. If you're watching this

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00:18:24,799 --> 00:18:26,839
on YouTube, leading comments there, let us know what your

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thoughts are. I'll join our discord links for that in

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00:18:29,079 --> 00:18:31,799
the YouTube can podcast description close as always with a

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shout with Frank lakeenan an apology to Jared Allen