Speaker 1: The Detroit Pistons returned to the playoffs. They gave the
Knicks a hell of a rock fight, including without Isaiah
Stewart who was injured. By having for most of that
series into the offseason for them, now, I think all
of us, although I hit, we did, both of us hit.
Their under a preseason doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: We probably better do we expected them to basically like
what was it.
Speaker 1: Quintuple their win total of being deliberately hyperbolic and then
like really holding up in the like the Knicks might
not be the best barometer if you're looking to see
how you fare against good teams, but that was a
series like that very easily could have been a Pistons
winning that series, Pistons in five, It could have basically
been when you look at the margins. Now they go
into the offseason, which I think, honestly, you're kind of
exiting the honeymoon phase and this is where it gets
really hard. It's okay, you've improved a lot, how do
you get even better without doing something that's deemed to
rash and could backfire in your face.
Speaker 2: They're vitals.
Speaker 1: They could have over twenty million in cap space. However,
that just not include a cap hole for Tim Hardaway
junior or Malik Beasley who's a non bird free agent.
They can only give him one hundred and twenty percent
raise off his current number, So if they're going to
keep him, it's either a cap space thing or preferably
like he only got six million this year, like the
do you think the non tax payerramid level? So fourteen
about will that be enough to keep him?
Speaker 3: Normally? I would say no based on the year that
he had. But maybe in this year's free agent landscape,
you're at least competitive and he's gonna know. Although maybe
it's the type of thing where he's like, hey, guys,
I start now, if that's gonna be the number, and
maybe it's a two plus one and it's not a
full three year or something like that. I think it's possible.
It's not, well, what, what is it more likely than
not that he's back in your opinion? Because I think
I lean towards it's like, it's more likely he's not
back because someone somewhere might just you know, be willing
to pay what Detroit can't him.
Speaker 2: Here's my issue with that. Who's right?
Speaker 3: That's the thing. I mean, Britain's not gonna do it.
Speaker 1: There's Brooklyn and Detroit themselves are the teams that right
now can carve out semi significant cap space. Now, I
guess if you're Maligue Beasley and the Pistons are giving
you fourteen points that if they're giving you the non
tax payer mid level, if you have other offers with
teams that you think are going to be better or
maybe start give you a higher profile role, that gets
interesting that What in turn, though, does that force the
Pistons to say, well, we are going to prioritize having
cap space that we can beat these other offers for.
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, he's gonna be a really good test of
of like is is the squeeze really on this summer
or not?
Speaker 1: And I think I think he's gonna stay or I'll
say this, I think he ends up at mid level
or less money. Yeah, so he leaves, it's because, like
he it's not because the Pistons wouldn't pay him, It's
because he wanted to leave. I really do think that
the CBA is that damaging to the non star right maybe? Right?
Speaker 3: Can I can I ask you a macro question before?
Because no, but thank you for asking. Yeah, Okay, it'll
be a micro question, but I'll just just think it's
like a big micro question and it's kind of overarching.
Uh So, coming out of that series against the Knicks,
like questions answered, there were many, and most of them
are with Kay Cunningham, Like, Okay, he's the guy.
Speaker 2: We're good.
Speaker 3: That's that's that, you know, hardest, hardest part handled. Check
that box. In terms of like no doubt core pieces
to like the next really good Pistons team, I'm willing
to say a sar Thompson is in I think has
I think strangely, Tobias Harris is not among those that
I would throw in there. Duran is like he's coming
closer and closer for me. But and then Jade and
Ivy is the hardest one because just he wasn't involved
and didn't play, and it will still be true a
thousand years from now that we're gonna be like I
really wish the Pistons had like a secondary creator that right,
like all that stuff and like maybe that's him. Other
than Caden sar Thompson, I don't have anybody that I'm like,
definitely we're set, which is a weird place to be
considering how good the Pistons were during the year and
the fight they put up.
Speaker 1: I'm with you, and I'm not to the point where
it's because I don't think that Ivy and Durham should
be locked in, or even Ron Holli it's actually locked
in his core players that they need to go out
and trade them right now.
Speaker 3: But they're extension eligible.
Speaker 2: Both of those guys are May and Ivy. That's the thing.
Speaker 1: They're extension eligible, So you at least have to consider it,
or you have to make sure. I mean, like those
negotiations might tell us how much face the Pistons have
in because I don't know. I don't know what you're
supposed to pay any of these guys. We have the
bigger sample size with Durham. Now, if he comes in
it twenty two million a year, are you doing it.
Speaker 2: The max is like thirty eight and a half or.
Speaker 3: I think I probably would, So you're like four for
just under one hundred basically with the Raises price center.
Speaker 2: And if it's so it's four for one hundred, are
you doing it?
Speaker 3: I mean for Durham, Yeah, I think I might because
because that that's a percentage of the cap by the
end of that deal. What are we talking about? Like,
you know that that's that's nothing for a guy that
you that is a starter now on a playoff team
that you should still think has another like X percent
of growth given his age, right, Like, unless you're just
always a lost cause he's never gonna be able to
do the things he doesn't do. Now, I'm not quite
I've been there on Duran. I don't know if I'm
there right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So his deal would be comparable to Nick Claxton's,
although Nick Claxton's is declining. But Nick Claxton signed the
four year, ninety seven million dollar deal and by the
end of it, because of how they structured it, it's
gonna be worth eleven percent of the salary.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1: So, but you you ratchet that up to like maybe
thirteen or fourteen if it's flat or if you go
with raises whatever. So I probably would do it at
that number, but it's it's still a discussion, right, It's
not just Yeah, I don't know he's important enough to
the Pistons to pay him that money. I don't know
how movable that deal would be if you tried to
trade it, you know, a season from now, when he's
not poison pilled.
Speaker 3: Right, And that has as much to do with like
the type of player he is in the position he plays,
than than the the sheer percentage of the cap where
it's like who's who's out there? Like we got it,
We're a Jalen Duran away from whatever, Like that's that's
a hard thing.
Speaker 1: When it comes to Jane and Ivy, I don't even
know how you sign him to an EXTENSI unless he's
gonna undercut his own market, because I don't know what
you pay him.
Speaker 3: If he does extend, the Pistons will have gotten a
team friendly deal, I think, just because like they should not.
They just they can't do anything like a market or
above market based on the injury, based on the uncertainty
of like is he like the best version of the
Pistons in two years? Like is Ivy He's probably not?
Is he starting? Is he like is he in the road?
Like the eight man rotation? I don't know. It's hard
to say right now.
Speaker 1: And so and I think if unless you just believe
they're gonna let Malie Beasley walk or that he's gone,
trade will be the vehicle through which they make them,
They'll have the mid level and then they'll be able
to make trades they have they can they control all
their first round picks after this year.
Speaker 2: Their twenty twenty five pick is headed to Minnesota.
Speaker 1: What I think the question here is twofold, what are
their biggest needs and how aggressive should they be about
going to address them? And by that I mean I
think you could say their biggest needs are, like, okay,
the secondary creator we talk Denni Shooter is a free
agent here by the way, too, that's not your tap
space projection. They could use a secondary creator type you
also would like still like like a bankable floor spacing,
like a two way wing, because like a star, Tompson
can be two way and so can run holl in
his own way.
Speaker 2: But those guys aren't hitting jumpers.
Speaker 1: I believe Beasley he tried defensively this year, but it's
just so you want that? Do you want a different
type of look up front at all? Are you okay
with Derren and Stuart? But I think like those are
kind of the things you laser in on. And what
I mean by how aggressive should they be, it's well,
are you trying to see if you can plug a
lot of them from within or maybe just using the
mid level or are you taking to the trade market
dangling first round picks and some salary maybe one of
your young players and looking at what that gets you.
And by that, I don't mean yo, if they got
involved in like the Devin Booker or Giannis attend to
coop post sweepstakes, that would be I would love either
one of those two players here. I ultimately don't think
that they would go that direction even if both of
those players become available.
Speaker 3: Yeah, is this a Cam Johnson team?
Speaker 2: Oh, he'd be interesting here? Is he does he do enough?
Speaker 1: Like defensively, because that probably cost you two first round picks.
Unless the Nets like you giving Jade and Ivy in
a first round pick for I'd probably do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think i'd do it too. And like you know,
you didn't think Tobias Harris was going to give you
much on defense prior to the Knick series, and turns
out he did. If Cam Johnson just like kind of
your younger Tobias Harris uh minus like some of the
individual creation stuff, but yeah, I think just the secondary creator,
it's just we're gonna until they get some Like Shrewd
was very important for this team. You know, like and
that's not no. You know, Shrewder is a guy that
like clearly didn't fit in Golden State, but can can
handle this level of job for the right kind of
team where he really is just like running pick and
rolls and and like isn't in a you know, a
bunch of read and react system type of environments. So
someone like that ideally maybe with a little more size, uh,
And then yeah, I don't, I don't. I don't have
an issue with the big man rotation, assuming Stuart can
be healthy and maybe get back to hitting outside shots.
That would I mean if if if you had that,
you're I'm good with the center spot. Like that's I'd
be willing to check out Duraan for another year or
two on an extension and then are longer than that.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, but I'm just gonna say they
would be I don't know how aggressive they would need
to be, whether it's they create cap space and sign
them or it's a sign and trade. They would be
a really fun nas read destination, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, because he's giving you the offense that you
really really want from Stewart. And then some is Stuart
is Stewart a trade candidate because if you go, if
you go extend Duran and and then Stuart's like, got
a decent number after that extension that he signed, and
like you could imagine a team talking themselves into like
I think he could start for us. I think maybe
the shot is actually there, and I think defensively there
might be enough like you could see him having enough
value to another team to where Detroit's like, yeah, we
can use him to get two or three other you know,
gaps filled that we have in our rotation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it might save you on the pick equity
where it's like, Okay, the matching salary we're including has
standalone value in itself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see that.
Speaker 1: And then it's in theory, it's easier just to approximate
backup big Man value on the cheap.
Speaker 2: Then it would be, oh, we.
Speaker 1: Need you know, a secondary creator for five million dollars
a year or something like that.
Speaker 3: Right, And it's hard to to know which way this cuts,
but you know, because I think Stewart is fairly important
to the sort of the identity that the Pistons have
carved out for themselves, like we're incredibly tough, we will
fight you that's like not an issue for us. Do
you do you value that a lot as the Pistons,
or do you maybe want to like, we already have
Ron Holland that's ready to fight, Like we could probably
do with that without one more agitator. So it's like
moving Stewart actually has the benefit of like, Okay, we're
gonna be a little like more chill and like that
kind of thing. You might want him out of the
locker room. I don't know. But then but then again,
maybe the pistoner's like, no, he's the guy that like
got us to play this way.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1: He's definitely not untouchable, but I'd be curious to know,
like how that if you trust Jayleen Duran to play
eventually thirty plus minutes a night.
Speaker 3: It'd be a big vote of confidence in him, which
maybe they're not ready to make.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm curious.
Speaker 1: I do think what feels like the most likely scenario
is they operate as an over the cap team, bring
back Beasley and with their exception, and then maybe they
bring back even Shrewder since he'll be easy to keep
with the the bird rights that he has, and then
kind of like maybe they make a true like I
just I do you expect them to do anything like
to react to this season in a way that says nothing.
Speaker 2: They would punt on development entirely.
Speaker 1: But one of the young kids is gone as well
as first like they they went not all in, but
they went in on a trade.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think on the one hand, I think
I do think you, like you said, the wind windows
are short, like it's not. I mean, Houston's in the
same position to Law to some extent, maybe even further
along where it's like okay, now, you know, I think,
But I don't think anything so like Ivy maybe in
terms of like who they might like pry off of
the core Stuart maybe, even though I don't even know
that I put him quite in that same group. I
guess you probably have to. He's not like it's not
like he's you know, thirty years old. But but yeah,
I don't think it goes beyond that, just because like
you're not trading Thompson Kid's just the franchise now during
there's I don't think the major you know, the guys
I mentioned as like definite core or possible core are
going anywhere.
Speaker 1: I don't think, and I do think there might be
people who are important if they don't try and like
hit the turbo acceleration button here. I think in this case,
kind of similar to what Houston did last year into
this year, I actually believe that it's smarter, or it's
at least safer, to like, well, let's see how good
we really are with most of this group. Intact, we
could reevaluate the deadliner. We can reevaluate in the twenty
twenty six offseason. You're not, as you mentioned, windows close
in the NBA very quickly. Theirs isn't fully open yet,
and so I don't know what they worried. All their
most important players are under team control, they're still super flexible.
So I think that's the smart course to go, But
it is tempting after watching the way that they played
against the Knicks, like, no, just go out and get
like would you do? I don't know what the math
would have to be here. Maybe they have some cat
flexibility with it, but like if it doesn't cost you picks,
like just go get CJ. McCollum and add this is
like okay, that really super Again with that, you're kind
of saying, oh, we're not super confident in the j
and Ivy experience.
Speaker 3: Then well, yeah, which you know, I wouldn't blame them.
I think like just the fact that like Cade right
now is better than anyone on the Rockets for example, right,
so like.
Speaker 1: Just just are you about to say and I thought
you said to anyone on the roster ver.
Speaker 3: Well, just to use the Rockets comparison, because we keep
bringing it up, and like you could probably I think
you probably put him over Polo on Orlando just to
continue going down the list of like, all right, are
they maybe there, like they got the court. So the
fact that Kate is at that level, and like I
think that if you are gonna go like get a
little bit irrational or a little bit over aggressive, I
think in some ways it's easier to justify it for
the Pistons because you have a guy that's like I
don't know, if we're redoing all NBA right now and
we're including like what we learned in the playoffs, like
he's he's not moving down our list.
Speaker 1: You know, Joe would be interesting if they, speaking of
the Rocks, they end up declining Fred van Vleet's team option,
he'd be interesting in Detroit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, that's that's a good like shrewder replacement slash
upgrade maybe within you. Yeah, no, I think he's an
interesting piece. I like him better than all him.
Speaker 1: I'm also trying to think of like higher end or
highish end options that wouldn't force you to mortgage everything.
Speaker 2: They would.
Speaker 1: I mean it could be wonky, but like they would
kind of be a fun Zion destination, oh man, just
as like a flyer on him. And again I'm not
giving up the Ford, all the young players, all the picks.
But if New Orleans ends up moving him where it's
like if it took Jade and Ivy in a pick
or something like, you would have to do it right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you would then, because then we revert to like
I think Caid's probably better as like a secondary guy,
which was a narrative on him for a couple of
for up until this year.
Speaker 1: Basically, would you because Fred van Fleet is different than
Zion is probably the n id or close to it
of his value, You're not going after like or maybe
you would a LaMelo ball.
Speaker 2: If he becomes available. You're not committing that type of resource.
Speaker 1: Would the middle ground be like if the Bulls make
Kobe White available.
Speaker 2: Is that someone you're interested in pairing with Kaid?
Speaker 3: Yes, definitely, I'm I'm on board with that, especially since
like whatever defensive concerns you have about him are mitigated
by Caid is capable of being an awesome defender, We've learned,
and then you have Thompson and then you have Holland
too on deck potentially, so you can onboard, Like I
don't know, if you just want to get real weird
and let's let's exchange like, uh, you know, up and
coming team players like could Jalen Green be the guy
that you want next to Caid? Like someone like that
that's just maybe you get. You get a little bit
of Beasley plus Shrewder in him, and then some like
I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Ti Jerome free agent could be interesting if you trust
Kid that much defensively.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well man, so tied Jerome is starting well.
Speaker 2: I mean, even it's not, I think that they could
carve it.
Speaker 1: I mean, the what's interesting about shooters, even when he's
not been his most efficient or as best self, you
just provide Kid Cunningham with in game breaks where he's
not on the bench but he's off the ball. Yeah,
and that to me is really valuable, even I don't
know how much he would play Blake Lonzo from Chicago,
like that would be that'd be fun as hell.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and credits a shrewder too, Like he's sort of
perfect for the role he's in in a lot of ways,
because like all he wants to do is like give
everybody else a break and like go, like he's that
is his hardwiring as like oh pick and roll, let's go,
or just like I'm going to iso somebody, Like that's
what he does well and what he wants to do.
So it's like the perfect situation for him, and it
has to be next to someone as good as Kid
so that he doesn't like get into the Brooklyn mode
of like it's my show, you know, like that it's
it's I really do hope they keep him the more
we talk about it, because I think he makes a
ton of sense there.
Speaker 1: I And I also hope they keep him because I
think it would signal that they're not I mean, we're
talking about trades, and if you told me they gave
up a young player non a SR Thompson Division plus
a first round pick in a trade, unless the.
Speaker 2: Return is just terrible.
Speaker 1: I will likely be okay with them being that aggressive,
but I want more information on this team and the
jayde and Ivy injury, like really kind of it just
muddies like how you're trying to like look at this
team through through the future.
Speaker 2: So I think get really good.
Speaker 1: They have a ton of optionality, but I just I
don't think it's time for them to hit like the
accelerator just right.
Speaker 3: And plus like forget the roster once once JB. Bickerstaff
reaches his cap, they can just replace him with Kenny
Atkinson and then they'll win like six cycle of events, right, Yeah,
it's the life cycle of the NBA. All right, Thanks
everybody for listening, for watching, make sure your rated review
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the YouTube can podcast description close as always with a
shout with Frank lakeenan an apology to Jared Allen