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Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker DTK. 55 00:02:52.240 --> 00:02:56.039 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 56 00:02:56.199 --> 00:03:00.240 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 57 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:03.759 your host, journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 58 00:03:13.599 --> 00:03:20.159 Good evening with details about grim and grizzly fatalities. This 59 00:03:20.439 --> 00:03:25.159 history of California's are Caine Deaths encompasses the murders and 60 00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:29.479 accidents that at one time shocked the West Coast. The 61 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:34.599 stories of hangings, gun accidents, suicides, crashes, and overdoses of 62 00:03:34.639 --> 00:03:38.800 both the famous and obscure offer a bizarre, if sometimes 63 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:44.879 perverse glimpse into the Golden State's strange past, including frightening 64 00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:48.159 murder tales like the rape, torture and child murder in 65 00:03:48.280 --> 00:03:51.680 the Ape Boy, a doctor slaughters his family and death 66 00:03:51.719 --> 00:03:56.000 in Davis House, the unsolved savage murder of an entire 67 00:03:56.120 --> 00:03:59.439 family in the Ketty Murders, and a young female psychopath 68 00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:02.759 in Penny for Her Thoughts. The book that we are 69 00:04:03.080 --> 00:04:07.520 featuring this evening is Death in California The bizarre, freakish, 70 00:04:07.719 --> 00:04:10.800 and just curious ways people die in the Golden State 71 00:04:11.400 --> 00:04:16.000 with my special guest, journalist and author David Colchick. Welcome 72 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:18.199 back to the program, and thank you for agreeing this interview. 73 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:23.279 David Colchick, Hey, thanks for having me back. Thank you 74 00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:25.759 very much. It wasn't so long ago we spoke to 75 00:04:26.920 --> 00:04:31.000 and so thank you for pinch hitting today for this interview. 76 00:04:31.120 --> 00:04:33.959 So thank you very much. Let's dive right into this. 77 00:04:34.439 --> 00:04:39.000 What I find fascinating with this retro crime here historic 78 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:42.079 true crime is all the things I didn't know about 79 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:47.120 strange true crime history. So we won't be talking about 80 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:49.560 too many stories, but we'll feature about just like in 81 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:52.240 the introduction, we'll feature about five or six stories or 82 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:55.000 really give people an idea of what kind of book 83 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:56.839 this is and some of the stories that are contained 84 00:04:56.879 --> 00:04:59.800 in But for our audience and I think for anybody 85 00:04:59.839 --> 00:05:02.839 that might buy this book to find it fascinating. Your 86 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:07.920 introduction and you talk about the headlines have always been 87 00:05:08.360 --> 00:05:13.639 that murder in California. But tell us about the state 88 00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:18.000 of before there was a really good reason to come 89 00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:21.199 to California. The people that were there first will say, 90 00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:23.800 in this country we call them Aboriginals or first nations. 91 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:29.839 Talk about how for those first people, murder was pretty 92 00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:32.560 foreign concept to them and why. 93 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:38.639 Yeah, the Aboriginies that lived in California before the invasion 94 00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:43.199 of the Europeans, they lived at the Garden of Eden. 95 00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:48.480 They traded with each other, and they basically had their 96 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:53.199 villages along the major rivers that flow through the valleys. 97 00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:55.480 And of course they're on the coast and things like that, 98 00:05:55.680 --> 00:06:01.000 but the being population was in the valleys of the 99 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:04.680 Sacramento of the San Joaquin and along the rivers that 100 00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:08.279 flow into those two rivers that it's named after. And 101 00:06:09.160 --> 00:06:12.000 they had villages about every couple miles. Actually, I lived 102 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:13.879 right by one that used to be one of the 103 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:20.600 largest ones in California. They even had restaurants. They found 104 00:06:20.680 --> 00:06:25.279 evidence that there were restaurants there, which I find just fascinating. 105 00:06:25.959 --> 00:06:29.959 But they did not murder each other, and if they did, 106 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:34.959 it was it was a very big deal. They basically 107 00:06:35.079 --> 00:06:38.920 lived in harmony and traded and married up and down 108 00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:46.439 the rivers into San Francisco Bay. They've found maybe one 109 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:51.879 hundred and fifty miles inland seashells that were from the 110 00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:57.240 San Francisco Bay. So they had this wide ranging trading area. 111 00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:04.279 And then right around when Carson came through, they all 112 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:08.079 caught small pox and measles and ninety percent of them died. 113 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:13.319 So by the time the gold Rush happened, the Aborigines 114 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:16.160 that lived here, it was kind of like Mad Max, 115 00:07:17.079 --> 00:07:20.839 where you know, they were just the stragglers, the survivors 116 00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:22.839 of a great disaster. 117 00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:27.519 I think one of the most profound things was, and 118 00:07:27.879 --> 00:07:33.399 I want to expand upon what type of again might 119 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:36.560 sound idealistic, but what kind of We'll say simple, it 120 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:39.800 wasn't very much population at that time, but we're still 121 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:44.879 a society, definitely a distinct society. But what was the 122 00:07:44.920 --> 00:07:49.480 punishment for something like murder? And why was that punishment 123 00:07:49.720 --> 00:07:52.720 in that society? Why did that suffice. 124 00:07:53.639 --> 00:07:54.240 So what did they do? 125 00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:55.279 How did that work? 126 00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:00.399 Yeah, if someone did commit murder and they would be 127 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:04.000 banished by their families in the village and all the 128 00:08:04.120 --> 00:08:07.120 other villages, and they were snubbed by all the other 129 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:10.560 villages and tribes and weren't getting around really fast, and 130 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:14.879 they would be outcasts in their own societies. They would 131 00:08:14.959 --> 00:08:19.319 they would be just complete losers. They'd be out of 132 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:22.399 the loop. They wouldn't They would be banished from their families, 133 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:24.639 and that was everything to them. And a lot of 134 00:08:24.680 --> 00:08:27.360 times if they did, you know, let's say it was 135 00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:34.879 accidental and someone got murdered, then the village would work 136 00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:37.320 out a deal with the other village where it happened, 137 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:39.559 because it never happened in the same village. There was 138 00:08:39.639 --> 00:08:45.080 never murders within their village. Ever, if they were goofing 139 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:50.240 around with another tribe, they would they would have to 140 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:55.080 the person that murdered would be forced to be their 141 00:08:55.240 --> 00:09:04.000 servant at that village for whatever amount of years they arranged. Yeah, 142 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:08.480 so once they did their certain sentence, that everything would 143 00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:09.039 be forgiven. 144 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:14.440 Yeah, it's very interesting the juxtaposition that you present, even 145 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:17.799 in the introduction and then your other book about murder 146 00:09:17.879 --> 00:09:22.720 in California as well, is that this society was unique 147 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:26.159 in that, Again, I've never heard tell of anything like 148 00:09:26.200 --> 00:09:30.960 this where the society itself made sure or ensured that 149 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:34.080 people wouldn't murder because there was nowhere else to go, 150 00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:38.919 unlike how our society is. As somebody is a deviant 151 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:42.200 of society, they're put in a prison, but within the 152 00:09:42.279 --> 00:09:45.879 prison then they have a community, we'll say, And once 153 00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:48.679 they get out of prison, or even before, there's certainly 154 00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:54.600 a division. But in that primitive we'll say society, unbelievably, 155 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:58.159 murder was a very very rare thing. Now you talk 156 00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:02.799 about the re olympetus for people coming to California and 157 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:07.480 for all the and for people over the centuries or 158 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:11.000 over the decades coming to California, and tell us what 159 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:13.879 that reason is. And tell us about again about the 160 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:17.039 headline about the murder in terms of murdering California and 161 00:10:17.480 --> 00:10:21.440 family members. Once these people had gone to California, they 162 00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:23.320 were looking at the newspapers. So tell us a little 163 00:10:23.320 --> 00:10:27.120 bit about that phenomena. Once California was a very popular 164 00:10:27.159 --> 00:10:28.960 place to go to. 165 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:34.360 Well, even today, there's always a headline in a magazine 166 00:10:34.440 --> 00:10:37.919 or newspaper or internet site that says death in California, 167 00:10:38.519 --> 00:10:43.840 it seemed to be that's probably the most used headline ever. 168 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:50.759 And you know, California, it's the sheer size of it is, 169 00:10:51.080 --> 00:10:55.240 you know, is just mind boggling. And with all the 170 00:10:57.240 --> 00:11:01.960 we have over one hundred mountain ranges California and forty 171 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:06.120 five percent of the of the land in California is 172 00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:08.159 covered by forests. I think that's a lot of things 173 00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:14.080 that people don't think of, how forest died this area is. 174 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:18.159 You know, people come here, they always come here to 175 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:24.120 change their lives, to have a new opportunity. We've had 176 00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:29.399 gold rushes, We've had land rushes, We've had multiple land rushes. 177 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:33.240 You know, if there's a bubble that's going to start, 178 00:11:33.559 --> 00:11:36.639 it's going to start here. Any fad, it's going to 179 00:11:36.679 --> 00:11:39.679 start here in California. This is this is where everything 180 00:11:39.799 --> 00:11:46.240 starts starts. And you know there's you can you can 181 00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:49.519 make a go at things in California if you if 182 00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:51.919 you really, you know, have a shot at it. You 183 00:11:52.000 --> 00:11:54.440 can you can really have a shot at at having 184 00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:58.320 something work out to your advantage living here. 185 00:12:01.639 --> 00:12:03.840 But you talk about really the gold Rush being the 186 00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:09.200 impetus for much more than just migrant migration in terms 187 00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:13.080 of a real impetus for murder. I mean, the incredible 188 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:17.200 profits that were at least imagined and realized by some 189 00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:20.679 people was a real good impetus for murder suddenly being 190 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:22.840 a lot more common and not rare at all. 191 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:28.639 Well, yeah, anytime you have something of value, there's always 192 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:30.519 going to be somebody there that's going to want to 193 00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:35.039 take it away from you. There's a lot of ways 194 00:12:35.080 --> 00:12:38.000 to die in California. You know, there's there's a lot 195 00:12:38.039 --> 00:12:42.120 of industry, there's you know, firming accidents can happen pretty easily, 196 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:46.200 and you know there's there's a thousand ways to die 197 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:47.159 in California. 198 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:48.559 M hm. 199 00:12:49.639 --> 00:12:52.559 Well, let's get to that right away, because we have 200 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:57.960 some incredible stories to cover in here. The more again 201 00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:01.600 you say, bizarre, freakish, just curious. Well we'll get to 202 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:05.320 the bizarre and the freakish and murder it. And let's 203 00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:09.559 start off with one really colossal story, because this is amazing. 204 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:13.159 You conclude to oftentimes you don't really get good photos, 205 00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:16.039 but you have some fantastic photos of the ape boy. 206 00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:21.799 So let's talk about the circumstances that the ape boy 207 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:27.240 in Los Angeles Sheriff's department talking to a Canadian named 208 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:32.519 Sandford Clark, an American consul in Vancouver. So tell us 209 00:13:32.919 --> 00:13:35.000 about the eight Boy. 210 00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:38.639 Well, the eight boys, you know. And I did not 211 00:13:38.919 --> 00:13:43.080 know about this at all until I was doing this book. 212 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:46.919 And what happened is I came across I was looking 213 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:49.919 for some other story, and I came across the trial 214 00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:54.000 of this and they have to go, you know, discover it. 215 00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:57.840 I was shocked that I've never I never knew about it. 216 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:00.879 And as soon as soon as Death California came out, 217 00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:06.080 two books came out about the boy. But it was 218 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:09.559 well put it this way. I had to stop writing 219 00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:13.039 this chapter for a couple of months. I just put 220 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:16.279 it aside and worked on some other ones because I 221 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:23.919 was getting too disturbed by it. This this guy SANDFORW. Clark. 222 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:29.399 He came into the Los Angeles Sheriff's department and he 223 00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:32.960 told them about his cousin and. 224 00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:39.159 H you've been he's fourteen years old. If I's on 225 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:40.600 the audience, he's fourteen years old. 226 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:44.639 Yeah. He came in told him about his cousin, Gordon Northcott, 227 00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:48.679 and told him that you know, he was, you know, 228 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:52.559 a chicken ranch in this town called Wineville, which is 229 00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:58.360 in Riverside County, east of Los Angeles, and he told 230 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:01.080 them that he was kidnapped from his home in Saskatchewan 231 00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:04.320 nineteen twenty six and kept him this decrepit ranch against 232 00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:08.519 his will. And he told tales of the kidnapping, rape 233 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:12.559 and torture and murder, all committed by his uncle. And 234 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:17.600 that's Gordon Northcott. He was twenty one years old, and 235 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:19.639 he claimed that his uncle was going to kill him 236 00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:23.720 if they ever let anyone know about what was going on. 237 00:15:23.960 --> 00:15:27.600 So the police department went out there with the Riverside 238 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:32.200 Police and they just found like a horrible, horrible scene. 239 00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:43.600 They found bloodstained the stairs, blood was everywhere, cots, bloody axes, hatchet, 240 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:48.080 they had hair on it. Just the most disgusting thing. 241 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:53.480 And there were three recently consumed graves and. 242 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:58.159 Lucky Land casino asking people, what's the weirdest place you've 243 00:15:58.200 --> 00:15:58.840 gotten lucky? 244 00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:02.080 Lucky line at the Delhi I guess ah, in my 245 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:05.639 dentist's office more than once. Actually do I have to say? 246 00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:06.080 Yes? 247 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:06.320 You do? 248 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:09.039 In the car before my kid's PTA meeting. 249 00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:12.679 Really, yes, excuse me, what's the weirdest place you've gotten Lucky? 250 00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:15.440 I never went in tell well, there you have it. 251 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:18.279 You could get lucky anywhere playing at lucky landslaughts dot 252 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:21.120 com play for free right now, Are you feeling lucky? 253 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:23.960 We're just necessary my long eighteen plus terms conditions plus 254 00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:24.679 every toys. 255 00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:28.360 They had the imprint of the bodies and the dirt 256 00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:33.000 in the bottom, and they found bone fragments. Actually, by 257 00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:35.679 the time it was over, they found two bushel baskets 258 00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:41.799 of bone fragments scattered out throughout that property. There's like 259 00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:50.240 young there's clothing that young boys would wear. And yeah, 260 00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:53.559 I was the police found this horrible mess. And this 261 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:58.919 one kid, nine year old Walter Collins, he went to 262 00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:02.279 a movie and he lived in Los Angeles area, which 263 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:05.200 to a movie never return, And that's kind of like 264 00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:09.759 what would happen. He would either lure the kids to 265 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:12.799 the ranchs saying that there was a job or work, 266 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:19.599 or he would just kidnap them, and his uncle Gordon 267 00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:23.960 would overpower room and tie them the cot and rape 268 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:26.720 and torture them for as long as he felt like it, 269 00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:32.960 and then he would kill them. I was like stunned. 270 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:36.640 I'm still kind of stunned at the story that such 271 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:40.759 a thing could even happen, especially in nineteen twenty six. 272 00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:46.720 And what did the nephew have to do, Sanfrey Clark 273 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:51.640 was besides witnessing some of it, what was his entire 274 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:54.319 role in this which is even more disturbing. 275 00:17:55.920 --> 00:18:03.599 Oh, he would have to help him, you know, tie 276 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:05.480 him up and all that stuff. And he'd have him 277 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:09.279 in one case with that Clark boy, he had him 278 00:18:09.319 --> 00:18:14.519 carry his captated head, you know, bucket two different shed 279 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:19.440 on the property. There there was a Hispanic boy that 280 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:26.079 they found like his headless body out in the desert area. 281 00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:29.160 And that wasn't one of his victims too. They never 282 00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:33.359 did find out who that kid was. He said that 283 00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:38.839 that Clark was out hiding out at a miner's cabin 284 00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:42.119 in the Mint Valley, which I believe the Mint Valley 285 00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:47.839 is full of homes now. Back in nineteen twenty six, 286 00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:51.960 it was just desert, and he went and saw a miner. 287 00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:54.000 He had a friend that was a miner out there, 288 00:18:54.640 --> 00:19:01.759 and Northcott killed the miner with his friend. And when 289 00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:05.559 they were looking for mineshaft to throw the guy in, 290 00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:09.440 they found this Hispanic boy hiding and so he took 291 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:13.079 him back to his ranch and did his torture routine 292 00:19:13.160 --> 00:19:16.839 with him for a week, and they ended up shooting 293 00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:20.440 that boy and chopping off his head. That's when Stanford 294 00:19:20.559 --> 00:19:23.799 had to carry it out. So the police found it 295 00:19:24.119 --> 00:19:28.119 the body along the roadside near this town of Norcoe, 296 00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:32.440 and they couldn't identify him. They never did identify him. 297 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:37.440 One time there was a married couple came to work 298 00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:45.079 on the farm and Stanford or Gordon, was arguing with 299 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:48.720 his mother. He was really babied by his mother. She 300 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:53.240 was just dotted on and his family actually bought him 301 00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:55.920 the chicken ranch to keep him out of trouble, and 302 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:58.200 they give him some kind of occupation because he was 303 00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:04.279 such a odd ball. And so this couple were there 304 00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:09.240 and Gordon and his mother started arguing about them, and 305 00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:12.000 they did the right thing and just kind of, you know, 306 00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:14.680 quietly got in their car and took off, and he 307 00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:16.799 had already dug the two grapes for them. 308 00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:22.640 Now the police are, They put out this all points 309 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:26.039 bulletined for the capture of Gordon and his mother and 310 00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:31.119 his father, And so pretty soon they meet up with 311 00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:33.119 the elderly North time. What does he tell him, What 312 00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:34.960 does the father tell Him's sixty four years old? What 313 00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:35.880 does he say about his. 314 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:44.839 He he was very proud of his son. He told 315 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:47.519 the he actually told the police and the press that 316 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:50.720 he was an ape boy, that he was covered with 317 00:20:50.839 --> 00:20:53.640 hair when he was born, he was like a chimpanzee, 318 00:20:53.839 --> 00:21:00.880 and he thought he was this horrible, horrible person. He 319 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:05.400 would Gordon would go around and he always wore lipstick, 320 00:21:05.480 --> 00:21:08.440 which is kind of funny, especially in nineteen twenty six. 321 00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:10.599 And U but he. 322 00:21:12.680 --> 00:21:16.720 He, he he, he was definitely just very very disturbed 323 00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:23.240 his father. Yeah. Leader at the trial came out that 324 00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:31.480 his father was actually his uncle. He was he was 325 00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:38.960 what would you say, not a victim, but he was 326 00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:45.799 the result of an ancestuous relationship between his sister his father. Yeah. 327 00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:50.599 Now he the police asked the father Cyrus, and they said, 328 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:52.920 did he tell you about the murders. He said, yeah, 329 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:54.400 he told me about the murders, but I don't believe 330 00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:57.279 anything he said, and I didn't believe what he had said. 331 00:21:58.079 --> 00:22:00.880 But again he didn't say that, no, my innocent. He 332 00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:04.519 basically said he's a rotten guy and forced us to 333 00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:09.079 just moved in with us. Basically, you know, so now 334 00:22:09.799 --> 00:22:12.960 tell us about the actual capture because we we'll have 335 00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:15.960 to get to the trial, which is absolutely something out 336 00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:19.359 of a out of a very very bizarre movie. So 337 00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:23.480 tell us about the capture of the boy. 338 00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:29.200 Oh, he was when the police found him in Cavuary, Calgary, Alberta. 339 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:33.960 He was on his he his mom was there and 340 00:22:34.039 --> 00:22:38.160 they caught her there and he was disguised as a female. 341 00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:43.039 They captured him on a train in Vernon, British Columbia. 342 00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:47.319 And uh and immediately assuming he was caught, it was 343 00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:53.160 like like the biggest time of his life. He was 344 00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:58.400 totally grandstanding about, you know, what what he did and 345 00:22:58.599 --> 00:23:02.319 what he was and the police thought that he was 346 00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:06.960 preparing for an insanity plea and you know, he was insane. 347 00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:13.279 I mean the fight Exedition Canada turned him over to 348 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:17.319 Los Angeles police department. They run on a train only 349 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:23.720 back down to Los Angeles and he totally talked about 350 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:26.000 what he did the entire time, and he. 351 00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:31.960 He was like a. 352 00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:36.759 Show about He wanted the attention, he loved the attention. 353 00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:44.119 Well, that extends this narcissistic personality is that when he 354 00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:47.720 makes this confession, but then he goes to court leads 355 00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:52.079 not guilty and course defends himself. Tell us a little 356 00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:54.839 bit about this defense, because there is a moment in 357 00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:57.680 this trial that is truly I've never read anything like it. 358 00:23:57.839 --> 00:23:59.759 So tell us a little bit about how the proud 359 00:23:59.920 --> 00:24:02.880 was Leeds. It's a ridiculous one. But just tell him 360 00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:06.559 about about his demeanor and how he what he acted 361 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:08.119 like at his own trial. 362 00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:14.559 Yeah, he he, he was just it is really one 363 00:24:14.599 --> 00:24:17.799 of the most bizarre cases that do you think, I mean, 364 00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:22.759 you know, it's it's it's just outrageous. He uh uh, 365 00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:26.519 he was proud of he is that that uh that 366 00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:32.839 uh that he would be by defending himself. You know, 367 00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:34.920 everyone says that, you know, you have a fool for 368 00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:37.680 an attorney when you defend yourself, and he said it'd 369 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:39.960 be worth it. My name would become known all over 370 00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:43.240 the world, which is so funny because I've never you know, 371 00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:46.519 and I've been digging into this murder stuff, you know, 372 00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:49.720 since nineteen eighty and I never heard of this guy 373 00:24:49.880 --> 00:24:56.079 until then. So he wasn't uh, you know, known like 374 00:24:56.240 --> 00:25:07.599 he was. But he he he would stick his jaw 375 00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:11.400 out while people were testifying against him. He'd make like 376 00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:18.720 these big gestures. He I guess the funniest thing for 377 00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:22.079 me is he cross examined himself and he'd turn his 378 00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:24.240 head one way when he asked the question, and he 379 00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:26.519 turned his head the other way when he'd answer it 380 00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:31.680 in a different voice, that was I was just bizarre. 381 00:25:32.200 --> 00:25:34.559 And he brought up about his sister. You know, he 382 00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:36.880 had all these people they had to be brought out 383 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:41.960 there from Canada and stuff and accuse the sister of 384 00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:46.119 being his mother and his father was also his grandfather, 385 00:25:46.359 --> 00:25:52.559 but you know, had nothing to do with the case. Yeah, 386 00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:56.000 he asked his cousin how did she get a black eye? 387 00:25:56.599 --> 00:25:58.839 And how did she know that he gave her a 388 00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:01.880 black eye? And she answered, is you punched me in 389 00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:08.519 the eye with your fifth Yeah. He would talk to 390 00:26:08.680 --> 00:26:14.599 the reporters during breaks and things and saying it was 391 00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:17.440 just terrible. What did you think was the weirdest thing? 392 00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:18.039 Did I get that? 393 00:26:19.480 --> 00:26:21.559 Well? I think that that is the weirdest thing across 394 00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:24.599 examination of yourself. I mean I've seen, you know, I've 395 00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:27.119 seen the thing where he's cross examining, like you say, 396 00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:28.960 his sister and he said, because you hit me in 397 00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:31.720 the face. The only time I've ever really seen that 398 00:26:31.960 --> 00:26:33.839 is the guy that killed all the people on the 399 00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:37.640 subway on the train, and he then was cross examining 400 00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:41.240 the he was defending himself and cross examining the victims 401 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.720