Speaker 1: It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. What a great idea on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff. And with me, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I realize I'm welcoming her back. It is
Speaker 1: Roseanne Perry and she's back with her latest book, a
Speaker 1: Wolf called Fire. You know, Roseanne, I realized we spoke
Speaker 1: back in the fall with your last book, that's right,
Speaker 1: with a horse named Sky.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: Yes, that was so cool.
Speaker 2: So thanks for inviting me.
Speaker 1: Of course, of course. Well, first of all, and I
Speaker 1: realized because I listened a little bit to our last
Speaker 1: interview and I realized, and it's so funny. But because
Speaker 1: you're consistent, because I commended you for your dedication, and
Speaker 1: that was the first thing I was thinking of for this,
Speaker 1: you know, to mention it to you, for this book
Speaker 1: for young leaders of every coin, may you grow in
Speaker 1: strength and wisdom and courage. That is just so perfect. No,
Speaker 1: it's a perfect dedication. What made you think of that? Like,
Speaker 1: why why would you? Why did you do that? Well?
Speaker 2: One of the themes of this book for the wolf whose
Speaker 2: alpha name becomes Fire, is that he's he's an unlikely leader.
Speaker 2: He's the Omega wolf, meaning the lowest ranking wolf of
Speaker 2: his pack, and he doesn't have the kind of charisma
Speaker 2: or size or you know, domineering personality that other alpha
Speaker 2: wolves he knows has, and so a lot of his
Speaker 2: journey is figuring out how he can be a leader
Speaker 2: while still being true to the wolf he really is, right, Yes, Yeah,
Speaker 2: And that's what I'm really what I'm really hoping for
Speaker 2: my young readers too, is not that they feel like
Speaker 2: they have to become something different to be a leader
Speaker 2: in their life, correct, But that they can find a
Speaker 2: way to be a leader with the personality and the
Speaker 2: skills and the and the outlook and heart that they
Speaker 2: already have.
Speaker 1: Correct.
Speaker 2: You know, that they can look within and find that
Speaker 2: that young leader in themselves and really embrace it, because
Speaker 2: there isn't just.
Speaker 1: One way right, right, and just to like listen to
Speaker 1: their inner voice and their inner strength and just use that. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: for sure. So your book, which I enjoyed and I
Speaker 1: love the illustrations as well, is based on a real story.
Speaker 1: So how did you come how did you come up
Speaker 1: to that to decide you know about the real wolf
Speaker 1: that it's based on.
Speaker 2: Well, lots more has been written. It was I started
Speaker 2: researching wolf caused fire in twenty twenty two. But I
Speaker 2: had researched my initial wolf book, A Wolf called Wander,
Speaker 2: in twenty twelve, so you know, ten years had passed
Speaker 2: and lots of new stuff had been written, right dumb
Speaker 2: Rick McIntyre's books about the Yellowstone Wolves has come out
Speaker 2: since that time. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, And so I
Speaker 2: was so inspired by this young wolf, Wolf eight, one
Speaker 2: of the original wolves brought to Yellowstone. He was brought
Speaker 2: with his parents and his three brothers, and he was
Speaker 2: the omega wolf in that pup group. He was smaller
Speaker 2: than them, he was not so handsome. The others were
Speaker 2: very charismatic and very domineering, and they bullied him all
Speaker 2: the time, the rangers who were watching them or seeing
Speaker 2: him getting nipped dead and food stolen, and they made
Speaker 2: him submit to him all the time, and they were like, wow,
Speaker 2: is this this pup even gonna make it right?
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah? For sure? Yeah?
Speaker 2: And and to be honest, wolves, I mean, this is
Speaker 2: kind of a harsh statistic, but the wilderness is hard
Speaker 2: for wolves and about half of wolf pups don't make
Speaker 2: it to their first year.
Speaker 1: Oh I didn't realize that. And yeah, and why is
Speaker 1: that is that because so the bullying, or they're because
Speaker 1: they're weaker, Like why why is that?
Speaker 2: Well, it's a lot of reasons. If if the pack
Speaker 2: itself is prospering and they can feed the mother, well,
Speaker 2: then they'll be well nourished. But if they're not prospering,
Speaker 2: if they if it's intensely cold, so there are some
Speaker 2: things that if they're like nutritionally compromised, that's really hard
Speaker 2: on a wolf because it's hard for them to keep warm.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: Wolf pups are usually born in like pretty early in
Speaker 2: the spring when it is very cold where they live.
Speaker 2: And then also young pups when they're first out of
Speaker 2: the den. You know, there isn't much that hunts an
Speaker 2: adult wolf, but there are plenty of things that hunt
Speaker 2: a wolf, pop eagles and all kinds of things, and so, yeah.
Speaker 1: It makes me feel I know, those poor babies, I know,
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: So but at the end of that first year, as
Speaker 2: as is reasonable to expect, only two of the four
Speaker 2: pups in that group did survive to be adults, but
Speaker 2: eight was one of them. Wow, that was one of them.
Speaker 2: And he came out of that experience of being bullied
Speaker 2: his in his first year with Oceans of compassion for
Speaker 2: other wolf pups.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And so then when he dispersed from his pack and
Speaker 2: he went, you know, to find his own life, he
Speaker 2: came across another wolf pack that was in a crisis
Speaker 2: at the time. It was one of the largest and
Speaker 2: most impressive charismatic male and female wolves. They had eight pups,
Speaker 2: and the day those eight pups were born, the alpha
Speaker 2: male was shot by a poacher. And so here's this
Speaker 2: female wolf all on her own, eight pups to feed,
Speaker 2: and this smallish, not very impressive looking the wolf comes along,
Speaker 2: and instead of trying to exporte some kind of alliance
Speaker 2: with the alpha female, he just goes straight to those
Speaker 2: pups and he's like, these kids are in trouble, and
Speaker 2: so he starts teaching them how to hunt little things
Speaker 2: mice and voles and gophers, and he moves them gradually
Speaker 2: with lots of patience and encouragement to hunting bigger and
Speaker 2: bigger things, right, taking the pressure off of that alpha
Speaker 2: female to bring down larger game. And because he's such
Speaker 2: a gentle and generous mentor to those pups, the alpha
Speaker 2: female does choose him to be her partner. And because
Speaker 2: he was so good to his these aid adopted pups
Speaker 2: instead of dispersing when they became adults, even though they
Speaker 2: grew to be much larger than him. Because their own
Speaker 2: father was a very large, impressive wolf, they stayed with him.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And they were fanatically loyal, and because he was such
Speaker 2: a good teacher, they became so impressive in the hunt,
Speaker 2: cohesive and fast and strong. They brought down their prey
Speaker 2: every time, and so they grew to be a very
Speaker 2: strong pack, and those eight offspring went on to be
Speaker 2: alpha's of many other packs in the future. So that
Speaker 2: most unpromising wolf who looked like he wasn't even gonna
Speaker 2: make it at the beginning, became the patriarch really of
Speaker 2: the most powerful pack in Yellowstone history. Wow. Right, because
Speaker 2: he chose this different leadership style. He wasn't He never
Speaker 2: made them bow to him, he'd never bullied his pack.
Speaker 2: He was always collaborative and kind. He loved to wrestle
Speaker 2: with the pups. He was just a very different kind
Speaker 2: of alpha, and it turned out to be really successful,
Speaker 2: and lots of his sons and daughters took elements of
Speaker 2: his leadership style and carried it into the future.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: So that was I was like, that's so cool.
Speaker 1: It is cool. It's cool. I mean, honestly, I think
Speaker 1: humans need to learn from him and realized that. You know,
Speaker 1: being a bully doesn't always make you successful, you.
Speaker 2: Know, right, yeah, being strong in the moment, But there
Speaker 2: are things that look weak in the moment but actually
Speaker 2: turn out to be strong. And give you an example, right,
Speaker 2: Yellowstone Ate. One of the things that he did when
Speaker 2: when one wolf pack attacks another wolf pack, as they
Speaker 2: do jockeying for territory and sessions. Typically not always, but
Speaker 2: typically those packs fight until the alpha is killed, and
Speaker 2: then the pack of the killed alpha sort of panics
Speaker 2: and scatters, right, and that's the end of it. But
Speaker 2: Wolf eight made a different choice. He although he hunted
Speaker 2: or he had a fight with almost every pack in
Speaker 2: Yellowstone Park at some point in his life, he never
Speaker 2: killed his opposing alpha. Not ever. He fought them until
Speaker 2: that alpha would submit to him, and once the alpha submitted,
Speaker 2: he let them go. Wow, which seems on the face
Speaker 2: of it like a weak choice. Right, Here's the genius
Speaker 2: of it, though, once that wolf packed disperse instead of
Speaker 2: scattering in panic with those wolves going I don't know
Speaker 2: what happened there.
Speaker 1: It can be out, you know what we do.
Speaker 2: Instead, they're still with their alpha, and their alpha takes
Speaker 2: them away from Eights territory and says to them, whatever
Speaker 2: we do, we are never going to go over there
Speaker 2: and fight those wolves again. We are never going to
Speaker 2: cross into their territory again. And they tell that to
Speaker 2: the next spring, their grandchildren and their great care and children,
Speaker 2: and so the territory, it's territory, Yeah, became much stronger, sure, right,
Speaker 2: stronger than it would have been if he had killed
Speaker 2: his opponent.
Speaker 1: Right right, because he doesn't always have to defend it
Speaker 1: now because yeah, well that makes sense.
Speaker 2: Right, because they're like, we're not going over We're not going.
Speaker 1: To go over there because he was cool, he let
Speaker 1: us be. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And so so I love that there is something
Speaker 2: that doesn't maybe look powerful in the moment, has more staying.
Speaker 1: Power, right, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: And what choice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and what a wonderful lesson to be taught to
Speaker 1: young people two.
Speaker 2: Right, right, right right? Yeah. Isn't just one way that
Speaker 2: that being big and being tough. It's just not the
Speaker 2: only way you have options.
Speaker 1: You have options. Yeah, and usually you know, I mean
Speaker 1: for a human, usually bullies, Yeah, they really have very
Speaker 1: low self esteem. That's why they're bullies, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's really what the bottom line is. Very it's fascinating
Speaker 1: and it's fine. I mean, and your story is perfect
Speaker 1: because the book obviously follows you know, warm who becomes Fire,
Speaker 1: you know his name Fire, but his Wolf eight. Now,
Speaker 1: other than all of the offspring of Wolf eight, has
Speaker 1: there ever been another wolf that's similar to Wolf eight?
Speaker 1: Or is he kind of like one of a kind?
Speaker 2: Well, he was definitely sort of iconic, okay, history of
Speaker 2: Yellowstone Park. But the thing, the thing I think is
Speaker 2: really beautiful is that many of his offspring and his
Speaker 2: adopted pups and the generations following many of them. Here's
Speaker 2: the intelligence of wolves. Right when they're in a pack.
Speaker 2: They can see if the pack dynamic is working right, right,
Speaker 2: they can see, oh, this this hunting strategy works. It again,
Speaker 2: this strategy for settling a dispute in the pack was successful.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm going to repeat that I like how
Speaker 2: I'm treated in this pack. I'm going to stay or
Speaker 2: But they can also decide I don't really care for
Speaker 2: how I'm treated in this pack. I'm going to go
Speaker 2: join the neighbor packs. Right, they have choices and they
Speaker 2: can see how different kinds of pack leadership work out,
Speaker 2: and so they have some freedom. Once they're adult wolves,
Speaker 2: they can leave their own pack. They have some freedom
Speaker 2: to choose a different pack and a different strategy, and
Speaker 2: when they see something that's successful, they're inclined to imitate it, right,
Speaker 2: And so many of the legacy of Yellowstone epe Is
Speaker 2: is those more compassionate, more collaborative leadership tactics that that
Speaker 2: his offspring carried forward into the future. And so you
Speaker 2: can still see some elements of his leadership style in
Speaker 2: the park today.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's pretty cool. That's very cool and so cool
Speaker 1: that you know, discovered this and decided to write about it,
Speaker 1: you know, in a kid's book, not really kids, like
Speaker 1: a young adult book. Even though I enjoyed it, it
Speaker 1: was good for me to read.
Speaker 2: You know, I always want a book that's fun for
Speaker 2: adults to read out.
Speaker 1: Loud, yes, right, yes, of course works.
Speaker 2: For the whole family, huh. And also that works for
Speaker 2: teachers to read out loud in their classroom. Yeah. So
Speaker 2: that's the thing. The beauty of middle grade, I think especially,
Speaker 2: and why I write for that eight to twelve year
Speaker 2: old audience so often is because it's sort of the
Speaker 2: last group of books that are still read out loud.
Speaker 1: That's true. I didn't even think of that, but you're right.
Speaker 2: And I love that. I love the culture of reading
Speaker 2: out loud in families. Yes, there's just something really beautiful
Speaker 2: when that happens, and so I want to make sure
Speaker 2: that my books always read out loud.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense. You know, I wasn't thinking that
Speaker 1: when I was reading it. I was thinking more with
Speaker 1: the with the illustrations. I can in my brain it
Speaker 1: was a kid, you know, a young adult going to
Speaker 1: bed and reading it and with the illustrations and kind
Speaker 1: of an easy read for them. But yeah, you're absolutely right,
Speaker 1: of course reading it out loud for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I should say those illustrations are by the
Speaker 2: absolutely brilliant Monica Armigo. She is from Madrid, Spain, and
Speaker 2: the she works digitally that art. But I just love
Speaker 2: the depth un dimensions.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2: It's so careful to get every species just right, because
Speaker 2: some speed like like American badgers are super different from
Speaker 2: badgers in Europe, right, right, Yadgers in Europe. I've read
Speaker 2: but nine and sort of adorable looking. But you know,
Speaker 2: badgers in North America are are there? So the one
Speaker 2: of the most aggressive weasels out there, badgers and wolverine, right,
Speaker 2: they won't back come from a bear. They smell bad,
Speaker 2: they're extremely crabby. It's a whole other game. Yeah. So's
Speaker 2: she's great about being you know, meticulously taken. I kid,
Speaker 2: sure she's representing the right species and she's just great
Speaker 2: to work with. So yeah, and it's the same illustrator
Speaker 2: as from a wolf called Wander.
Speaker 1: So I was I was going to ask you about that.
Speaker 1: So you've worked obviously you worked with her before, but
Speaker 1: it was on the other wolf book you had someone
Speaker 1: different with Sky, right, with a horse gull Sky.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Kirby Sagan illustrated a horse named Sky, and a
Speaker 2: whale of the Wild was illustrated by Lindsay Moore.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, So now I have to ask you this
Speaker 1: because when we spoke when when a horse named Sky
Speaker 1: came out, and I'm sure I asked you what you
Speaker 1: were doing next. I don't recall you talking about this book,
Speaker 1: but you were probably in the process of writing this
Speaker 1: book or was this already written? Because I have probably
Speaker 1: in the process.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think do you know why. I
Speaker 2: probably didn't say it, Probably because we are still negotiating
Speaker 2: the country.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that makes sense, of course I get it.
Speaker 1: Of course, why would you talk about it? Yeah? Probably
Speaker 1: let you brother. You know, I don't remember, but you
Speaker 1: probably said, you know, I'm working on something, and you know,
Speaker 1: and I said, okay, we'll talk again, never realizing it
Speaker 1: would be you know. No, it's wonderful and what I
Speaker 1: really Yes, I do.
Speaker 2: Have another Voice of the Wilderness novel under contract with
Speaker 2: Random House. Okay, so the next one will be about
Speaker 2: Ravens and I'm super excited.
Speaker 1: Oh I'm excited about that too. Okay, So is that
Speaker 1: in the process of being written or written already.
Speaker 2: I'm still writing that now, so it's going to be
Speaker 2: a while. Ok If I need to finish writing it,
Speaker 2: we need to revise, and then the illustrator needs another
Speaker 2: six months or so to do all of that. That's
Speaker 2: a lot of it. It's like one hundred and thirty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is a lot. It is. It is a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's great. It's great. But no, I get that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the illustrations just really describe everything
Speaker 1: that you just wrote, you know, and the way and
Speaker 1: the way you have them disperse, it's like the like
Speaker 1: the timing of them. I love timing is the right word,
Speaker 1: but it's there, it's perfectly spread out, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really. The book designer is Sylvie Lafoux at Hypercollins,
Speaker 2: and she's brilliant and making sure each each placement of
Speaker 2: each illustration is just right, it's sized right, and the
Speaker 2: text curves around the illustration in a beautiful way. And
Speaker 2: I mean design of a book is a whole art
Speaker 2: onto itself. Oh sure, he's brilliant at it. So she
Speaker 2: and she and Virginia Duncan are like the perfect team
Speaker 2: to work with at Green Willow.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So yeah, no, I think it's perfect. And I
Speaker 1: love the fact that you know, after the story of
Speaker 1: Warm than Fire, that you talk about the real wolf
Speaker 1: behind the story and wolves in the wild. So it's
Speaker 1: very educational as you know, it continues, which I think
Speaker 1: is a very nice touch as well.
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful that they give me lots of room
Speaker 2: for back matter because I know kids are really a
Speaker 2: child loves to know a fact, sure, and I love
Speaker 2: to I love to have some places for them to
Speaker 2: go with their curiosity and some things for them to
Speaker 2: dig in a little more about I want them to
Speaker 2: know something about the ecosystems and to think about the
Speaker 2: environment and so. And also if there's a nonfiction element,
Speaker 2: it's also makes it easier for teachers to use it
Speaker 2: in the classroom.
Speaker 1: Sure, no, for sure, yeah, because then you said, because
Speaker 1: I was thinking the same thing. Kids are curious, so
Speaker 1: it just it kind of satisfies that curiosity for them
Speaker 1: after reading the story and like, oh, I want to
Speaker 1: know what else about this? So that's that's great. So yeah,
Speaker 1: so here's something and maybe could you see this as
Speaker 1: a movie?
Speaker 2: Oh? I sure hope so, oh okay, okay, yeah, we have.
Speaker 2: We have been talking to film companies, both live action
Speaker 2: and animation companies off and on throughout the years, and
Speaker 2: so I know that that that they're my agent is
Speaker 2: actively working on on pitching it to film companies.
Speaker 1: Oh that's great.
Speaker 2: Films take a while, of.
Speaker 1: Course they do, of course they do. But I think
Speaker 1: also having the illustrations that you have, well like kind
Speaker 1: of helps that along.
Speaker 2: I hope. Yeah. I think it would be a really
Speaker 2: fun film to make, And there's been some gorgeous filmmaking
Speaker 2: from children's books. I just love the movie from a
Speaker 2: Wild Robot Olmer. Yeah, so beautiful and a really emotionally
Speaker 2: intelligent story and artfully conveyed. Yeah, with Stadliss so so
Speaker 2: I have lots of hope.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but.
Speaker 2: I'm also realistic that that sort of thing will likely
Speaker 2: take a while.
Speaker 1: It takes a while, right, And it's not like you're
Speaker 1: not doing anything else. You're working on your next one.
Speaker 1: I have out the Ravens, which, by the way, exactly
Speaker 1: saying you're not running out of ideas and you are
Speaker 1: currently writing. And I don't think I realized this before.
Speaker 1: But is it true you always write your books in
Speaker 1: a treehouse, like not in your backyard? Is that true?
Speaker 2: I do have a treehouse in my backyard and I
Speaker 2: ride up there very often. Nice not today though, because
Speaker 2: like thirty degrees out and snowing.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that would be good. That would yeah, not
Speaker 1: a good idea.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, my seahouse doesn't have walls. Right, If my
Speaker 2: treehouse had walls in the door, then raccoons would figure
Speaker 2: out a way to get in there and they poop
Speaker 2: all over it, and.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, so that would be bad. Yeah, No, I
Speaker 1: get that.
Speaker 2: I get My seahouse is quite open so I worked
Speaker 2: there in the summer. I love working there in the summer.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sure.
Speaker 2: In the trees and it's sidealist right right, but it's
Speaker 2: it's not an all weather treehouse.
Speaker 1: Let's just say, okay, all right, but that makes sense.
Speaker 1: It makes sense that you would do your writing there
Speaker 1: in the summer. I get it.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yeah, it's super fun and when the kids
Speaker 2: were little, it has a rock wall to get up
Speaker 2: and is it blinding it down and nice?
Speaker 1: All the fun thing, all fun. That's great. I love it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So okay, a wolf called Fire. So Roseanne, where can
Speaker 1: my listeners get this book?
Speaker 2: It should be available everywhere. It came out on the
Speaker 2: fourth of this month, and so it should be in
Speaker 2: your local independent bookstore. I work at an independent bookstore myself,
Speaker 2: and a Balloon's in Portland, and so I'm always encouraging
Speaker 2: people to get their books there. But it's also available
Speaker 2: in the big chains and the big box stores. It's
Speaker 2: available online, and it's also I also have to give
Speaker 2: a shout out to school and public libraries. I get
Speaker 2: terrific support from our libraries, and boy are they in
Speaker 2: need of our support now.
Speaker 1: Yes, for sure. But that's wonderful. That's good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So if it's if there isn't a bookstore in
Speaker 2: your town, or if that would be a big luxury
Speaker 2: to get a book, please tell your library. I'm always
Speaker 2: grateful when kids check out my books from the library too.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I remember as a kid, we had a bookmobile
Speaker 1: that would come to my block once a week. It
Speaker 1: was so wonderful, like just talking about it, I can
Speaker 1: still smell it, and I can't tell you how many
Speaker 1: years ago it was, but it was just a wonderful
Speaker 1: thing to get a book out of a library. But yes,
Speaker 1: oh that's fun. Yeah it was fun.
Speaker 2: I love bookmobiles too, and I actually wrote a picture
Speaker 2: book that's a little tribute to them called Big Trip Day.
Speaker 1: Oh I didn't even realize that. How cool? Oh yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: bookmobiles are the best. And I'm so happy that they're
Speaker 1: still around, right they are still around? Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's hard when you're not a child anymore, and like,
Speaker 1: are they still around? Yes?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well yeah, and it's a good solution in places
Speaker 2: where bookstores are sent on the ground, sure, and even
Speaker 2: library branches, so yeah.
Speaker 1: For sure, for sure. All right, Well, Roseanne Party, thank
Speaker 1: you so much. A wolf called Fire. I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: It's wonderful to talk to you again, and I will
Speaker 1: be talking to you again when your book, well, whichever
Speaker 1: happens first, either the Raven's book or maybe the movie
Speaker 1: film animation. I'm sure we'll talk it again in the
Speaker 1: near future. So I thank you for your time.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Maria, it was great to talk to you again.