WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:04.120 And welcome back to the program. In this episode, we're 2 00:00:04.120 --> 00:00:08.279 going to talk about how the FBI uses genetic genealogy 3 00:00:08.560 --> 00:00:13.640 to trace suspects like the accused murderer Brian Coberger. And 4 00:00:13.720 --> 00:00:16.239 to do that, we have an article from the Daily 5 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:22.399 Mail headline revealed how the FBI used genetic genealogy to 6 00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:27.760 trace suspects like Brian Coohberger. Cops track distant relatives, then 7 00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:32.880 secretly collected DNA and compared it to unidentified samples at 8 00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:34.920 the crime scene. Now, I know there was a lot 9 00:00:34.960 --> 00:00:38.119 of confusion about how this DNA works and how all 10 00:00:38.159 --> 00:00:41.359 of it's collected and then cross referenced, and then if 11 00:00:41.359 --> 00:00:44.719 somebody's not in codis it makes things so much more difficult. 12 00:00:44.840 --> 00:00:47.719 But there certainly are other ways that the authorities are 13 00:00:47.719 --> 00:00:50.159 able to check this DNA, and this is certainly one 14 00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:57.119 of them. This article was authored by Jennifer Smith. The 15 00:00:57.200 --> 00:01:01.119 FBI tracked down Idaho murder suspect Brian Coober by tracing 16 00:01:01.159 --> 00:01:06.200 his distant relatives through genetic genealogy databases, then secretly collected 17 00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:08.959 a sample of his DNA which they matched to that 18 00:01:09.120 --> 00:01:13.200 found at the crime scene. Experts revealed today and we 19 00:01:13.200 --> 00:01:15.359 were kind of discussing this a little bit, and I 20 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:17.200 figured this was going to be the way that they 21 00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:20.640 had to go about this. If he's not in CODIS, 22 00:01:20.799 --> 00:01:23.680 it's obviously impossible for them to match it up with 23 00:01:23.799 --> 00:01:24.719 people in the system. 24 00:01:25.159 --> 00:01:27.000 So they have to go a little bit deeper. They 25 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:28.239 have to go a little bit harder. 26 00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:31.920 And when you collect unknown DNA at the crime scene 27 00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:36.079 and then you get into possession of someone's DNA like 28 00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:39.319 Brian Cooeberger's, like they did, and you cross reference that 29 00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:41.760 and it's a match, well, that tells you, at the 30 00:01:41.879 --> 00:01:44.480 very least that Brian Cohberger was at the scene of 31 00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:46.959 these crimes. Now it's going to be up to the 32 00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:50.400 prosecution to hammer that home and make sure that the 33 00:01:50.480 --> 00:01:53.200 jury understands that he wasn't only at the scene, he 34 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:56.120 was the one who committed these crimes. And that might 35 00:01:56.200 --> 00:01:59.239 seem like an easy feat, like an easy task, but 36 00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:02.959 we all know, oh that it's not. Getting an arrest 37 00:02:03.040 --> 00:02:09.159 is one thing, getting a conviction is another. Coburger was 38 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:12.719 arrested on Friday in Pennsylvania, twenty five hundred miles from 39 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:16.000 the crime scene in Moscow, Idaho, where he is accused 40 00:02:16.039 --> 00:02:19.199 of murdering the four students and a stabbing frenzy on 41 00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:23.159 November thirteenth. He is due in court in Pennsylvania today 42 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:26.319 for an extradition hearing that will send him back to Idaho, 43 00:02:26.719 --> 00:02:28.560 and as we've learned, he's not going to challenge that. 44 00:02:28.879 --> 00:02:31.800 He's waiving that and he's ready to be extradited to 45 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:35.840 handle the charges against him. He says he is going 46 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:38.560 to be exonerated, and I thought that was an interesting 47 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:40.479 use of that word, by the way he would think 48 00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:42.479 somebody would say, look, I'm gonna I'm not guilty of this. 49 00:02:42.520 --> 00:02:45.159 I'm gonna be found not guilty, but he uses the 50 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:48.840 word exonerated. Now, I might be reading too much into that. 51 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:51.840 Very possible, but I think it's interesting when you have 52 00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:54.960 somebody who is as well educated as a guy like 53 00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:58.240 Brian Koberger, I think it's important to listen to the 54 00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:03.159 words that they use. Police had been tight lipped about 55 00:03:03.159 --> 00:03:06.680 their investigation, but confirmed over the weekend that he was 56 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:11.479 tracked down using a combination of DNA tracing and investigative work. 57 00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:15.879 Coburger has no prior criminal record, which means as DNA 58 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:19.840 was not in any law enforcement database, so they have 59 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:22.240 to move into a different realm right. They have to 60 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:25.400 get creative as investigators when they're looking for people like 61 00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:28.840 this and they're looking to get a conviction. So if 62 00:03:28.919 --> 00:03:31.080 they're not in the codis, then you have to move 63 00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:34.080 on to the next phase, and that's surveillance. If you 64 00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:36.560 know the person you're looking for and then you follow 65 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:38.840 them around, You wait for them to go into a store, 66 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:41.599 You wait for them to drop a cigarette whatever it 67 00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:44.120 is that has their DNA on it. You grab it, 68 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:47.000 you bring it back, you process that DNA, and then 69 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:50.280 you cross reference it. And according to the sources, that's 70 00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:55.120 exactly what happened here. Instead, he was found through a 71 00:03:55.159 --> 00:03:59.360 method known as genetic genealogy, an increasingly popular and useful 72 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:04.000 method of investigation where law enforcement trace suspects relatives on 73 00:04:04.199 --> 00:04:10.080 ancestry websites. Cc Moore, chief genetic genealogist at Parabon and 74 00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:13.840 founder of DNA Detectives, who has helped law enforcement solve 75 00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:16.480 more than two hundred and forty crimes, did not work 76 00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:20.439 on the case, but is widely considered the most authoritative 77 00:04:20.519 --> 00:04:24.240 expert in the industry. She explained to daily mail dot 78 00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:28.000 Com the process the FBI likely followed based on her 79 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:32.040 own understanding of the case and passwork with law enforcement. 80 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:38.439 Number one, finding the sample at the crime scene. The 81 00:04:38.439 --> 00:04:41.720 first step in the investigation is finding a DNA sample 82 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:44.439 at the crime scene. And we know that wasn't hard 83 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:47.399 here because it said it was just a complete mess 84 00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:49.519 as far as the crime scene goes, and they said 85 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:52.120 they had DNA evidence all over the place. Now, they 86 00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:55.480 didn't elaborate on whose DNA, but you would have to 87 00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:59.959 think that the killer left something. In the Idaho case, 88 00:05:00.199 --> 00:05:02.759 the alleged crimes were so physical and brutal that it 89 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:05.680 would have been easy for the killer to accidentally leave 90 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:08.959 their own blood, let alone hair fibers or any other 91 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:13.639 less obvious bodily fluid. If this is the killer, then 92 00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:16.759 I'm sure he sure tried very hard not to leave 93 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:20.079 behind a sample, given his background in forensics. But it's 94 00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:23.920 almost impossible not to even if he was suited up 95 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:28.120 like Dexter, And she's not wrong. We leave DNA traces 96 00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:31.240 everywhere we go. We're pretty much leaving a DNA footprint, 97 00:05:31.879 --> 00:05:35.439 so it's very difficult to not leave DNA, especially with 98 00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:38.360 the close nature of a crime such as this. It 99 00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:41.399 would have been a lot harder for investigators if these kids, 100 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:43.959 say we're shot. Somebody walked in the house, had a 101 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:46.399 silencer on their gun, opened the door, and shot them 102 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:49.199 while they were in their beds. Very very difficult to 103 00:05:49.319 --> 00:05:52.120 DNA that and to trace that back. Now, of course 104 00:05:52.160 --> 00:05:55.319 the person might have dropped a hair or left some DNA, 105 00:05:55.800 --> 00:05:58.120 but nowhere near the amount you're going to leave. With 106 00:05:58.199 --> 00:06:01.000 an up close and personal attack like we saw here, 107 00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:06.240 when you're in a frenzy's stabbing someone, it's extremely common 108 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:08.480 for the knife to slip and for you to get cut. 109 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:11.199 Even if he had on gloves. One thing I will 110 00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:14.000 say is they have cutproof gloves. You can get gloves 111 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:16.360 where a knife won't cut through them. So until we 112 00:06:16.439 --> 00:06:18.560 have all of the evidence and know exactly what he 113 00:06:18.680 --> 00:06:21.279 was wearing, if he was suited and booted, we just 114 00:06:21.319 --> 00:06:24.480 don't know. The blood could have been mixed in with 115 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:27.800 the victims. When that happens, you have to convolute it 116 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:31.759 that could be what had happened. We also know that 117 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:34.279 one of the victims put up the fight of her life, 118 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:36.920 and if that is true, she maybe was able to 119 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:40.639 scratch him and they could have collected DNA from her fingernails. 120 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:43.199 And this is one of the surefire ways to nail 121 00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:46.800 somebody with DNA. If you murder somebody and then their 122 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:50.920 DNA is found under your fingernails, you're pretty much cooked. 123 00:06:52.079 --> 00:06:53.639 And then you add to that, if there's a murder 124 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:56.959 weapon that's found, forget it. You have no chance. So 125 00:06:56.959 --> 00:06:58.519 that's why I don't think we're ever gonna find a 126 00:06:58.560 --> 00:06:59.720 murder weapon here. Now. 127 00:06:59.800 --> 00:07:01.399 Don't need the murder weapon. 128 00:07:01.240 --> 00:07:06.079 To get the conviction, but it sure does help. Number 129 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:10.720 two building a DNA profile and running it through police databases. 130 00:07:11.439 --> 00:07:13.519 When DNA is found at the scene of a crime 131 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:16.319 that does not belong to the victims, the first thing 132 00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:19.240 police do is run it through their own database of 133 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:24.279 previous offenders. This test twenty DNA markers enough to identify 134 00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:27.160 the person if their own DNA is already in the system, 135 00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:31.560 or if their immediate relative is in the system, meaning 136 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:34.560 a parent or a sibling or something like that. If 137 00:07:34.600 --> 00:07:40.920 both strikeout, investigators have to look to genetic genealogy. Number three. 138 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:47.480 Genetic genealogy testing. Unlike police DNA databases, those of commercial 139 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:51.560 genealogy companies can search for up to one million DNA markers, 140 00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:54.839 creating a much wider pool of relatives to sift through 141 00:07:55.199 --> 00:07:59.279 than what any police search could produce. But while there 142 00:07:59.319 --> 00:08:03.399 are many commercial ancestry websites only to allow law enforcement 143 00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:07.560 to search their databases openly. According to More, and this 144 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:09.399 is where the privacy issue comes in for a lot 145 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:12.079 of people. I know a ton of folks who just 146 00:08:12.160 --> 00:08:15.160 won't give up their genealogy to these companies because they 147 00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:17.839 don't feel like it's safe or secure for whatever reason. 148 00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:21.800 There's a huge misconception that we use ancestry dot com 149 00:08:21.839 --> 00:08:24.279 and twenty three in me, but they don't allow it. 150 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:29.120 Only the two smallest databases, ged match and family Tree 151 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:32.360 DNA do allow it, and they deal with around two 152 00:08:32.360 --> 00:08:34.960 million people, so it's a small pool, right those two 153 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:40.679 companies compare to ancestry dot Com and twenty three in me. 154 00:08:41.320 --> 00:08:44.080 Those are the two big powerhouses in the industry. But 155 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:47.120 the smaller companies here, well, they're the ones who allow 156 00:08:47.240 --> 00:08:50.320 the police to go through the database. And if you 157 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:52.159 want to go through the database for twenty three in 158 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:55.080 me and ancestry dot Com, it looks like you'll have 159 00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:58.279 to get a warrant to do that. So with that 160 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:01.279 you have to either get lucky or be really skilled. 161 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:05.360 Coberger's likely matches from the databases or second third and 162 00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:09.440 fourth cousins, according to More, not as close relatives. In 163 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:12.600 most criminal cases, She said, the suspect who is eventually 164 00:09:12.639 --> 00:09:16.200 identified has likely never even met most of the people 165 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:19.519 he or she shares DNA with. You get a match 166 00:09:19.559 --> 00:09:22.320 list which will have hundreds or even thousands of people 167 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:25.440 on it, and most will only share tiny amounts of DNA. 168 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:28.919 You're really hoping for a second cousin, but probably in 169 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:32.519 this case they were working with third, fourth, and fifth cousins. 170 00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:35.679 Sometimes you get lucky and it's a first cousin or 171 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:38.279 even a sibling or a parent, but it's very rare. 172 00:09:38.759 --> 00:09:42.000 You're looking for patterns and commonalities, and you need to 173 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:44.639 find that one person who is related to all of 174 00:09:44.679 --> 00:09:47.519 the people at the top of the list. So before 175 00:09:47.559 --> 00:09:49.879 we find who they are, we need to find out 176 00:09:50.159 --> 00:09:52.120 what all of the other people on the list have 177 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:56.679 in common and who they have in common. So it's 178 00:09:56.720 --> 00:09:59.000 definitely not as easy as just typing a few things 179 00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:02.200 into a computer day database and figuring it out right. 180 00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:06.399 The investigators had their work cut out for them, and 181 00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:08.519 it certainly seems like they were up to the task. 182 00:10:10.120 --> 00:10:13.639 Building a family tree using social media, land records, and 183 00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:17.879 more based on the list of partial DNA matches. Eventually, 184 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:21.159 genetic genealogy will lead to an immediate relative of the 185 00:10:21.200 --> 00:10:24.679 suspect whose DNA was collected at the crime scene, or 186 00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:28.720 at the least a grandparent, according to More Once that 187 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:32.120 stage is reached, detectives look at other methods of narrowing 188 00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:35.879 down who the suspect might be. When we get a 189 00:10:35.879 --> 00:10:40.360 match in ged match of family tree DNA, the vast 190 00:10:40.360 --> 00:10:43.840 majority of the time there is little information there. We 191 00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:47.399 have to figure out who this person is, who are 192 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:51.279 their grandparents? Then we're building forward in time. It's really 193 00:10:51.320 --> 00:10:54.360 hard work. You have to be a good investigator right 194 00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:57.159 and be able to keep things in order here because 195 00:10:57.159 --> 00:11:00.919 this has to be a very meticulous process. Once you 196 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:03.799 get past the nineteen fifty census in the US, there 197 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:06.440 aren't any more records, so we have to start using 198 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:10.320 newspaper articles, birth records, and state databases. You can learn 199 00:11:10.320 --> 00:11:13.360 a lot from social media too. As you come closer 200 00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:16.639 and closer to the present day, it becomes harder. In 201 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:20.639 the US, we have search databases, basically these companies that 202 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:24.039 collect information on all of us and compile it and 203 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:27.960 sell access to these databases like White Pages or Been 204 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:32.039 Verified or US search. You can put their name in 205 00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:35.679 and see who they are connected to. It's really difficult 206 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:39.240 and time intensive. In the UK, it would be extremely 207 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:43.759 difficult and impossible sometimes because of the privacy restrictions. In 208 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:47.639 Canada it's extremely difficult for the same reason. In a way, 209 00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:50.240 we're fortunate, But on the other hand, if someone is 210 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:54.120 worried about privacy, they should really be thinking about those databases, 211 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:58.600 not the DNA websites. That's pretty interesting. Look, I didn't 212 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:00.360 know any of that, and that's why we we added 213 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:03.159 this article to the catalog because I don't know much 214 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:07.440 about the DNA process and how genealogy even works. So 215 00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:09.519 it's always interesting to get a little bit of a 216 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:13.879 look behind the scenes and narrowing down a suspect. Once 217 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:17.519 the genetic genealogy trail is run cold, the investigators start 218 00:12:17.559 --> 00:12:21.320 to look at possible suspects based on other factors. Once 219 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:24.200 we narrow it down to say grandparents, you've got to 220 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:26.960 say who are their grandchildren, who is living in the 221 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:29.720 right place at the right time, who's the right age 222 00:12:29.879 --> 00:12:34.360 From their DNA we can also predict skin color, hair color, 223 00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:37.600 eye color. In this case, it's possible they didn't have 224 00:12:37.720 --> 00:12:40.080 enough to get all the way to his immediate family. 225 00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:43.440 Then they got to his grandparents and had to look 226 00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:46.960 at all of the male descendants. So we were wondering 227 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:47.799 what took so long? 228 00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:49.039 This could be it. 229 00:12:49.399 --> 00:12:51.080 They had to go through all of this in a 230 00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:54.720 meticulous nature and cross everything off and try to get 231 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:58.559 the pay dirt. Then they'd say who drives the white 232 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:01.279 Launtra the vehicles spot in the area around the time 233 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:04.360 of the crime, and who lives in the area. Which 234 00:13:04.440 --> 00:13:08.039 man could it be? It's possible they got ten male descendants. 235 00:13:08.360 --> 00:13:11.279 They look then at whether any of them fit. Once 236 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:14.159 they found Coburger's white Alantra, it will have been a 237 00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:17.600 huge aha moment. Plus the fact he lives just seven 238 00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:20.960 miles away. Most of the time, the genealogy leads you 239 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:23.759 right back to the scene of the crime, and it's 240 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:28.440 crazy how accurate of a road map the genealogy will create. 241 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:31.600 All of the science behind all of this is just fascinating. 242 00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:36.480 Nailing the suspect by collecting their DNA secretly to compare 243 00:13:36.519 --> 00:13:39.720 it to the sample found at the scene. Once the 244 00:13:39.720 --> 00:13:44.639 suspect is nailed down, genealogical investigators turn their findings over 245 00:13:44.679 --> 00:13:48.840 to police undercover or covert teams then follow the suspect 246 00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:52.360 and suripiciously obtain a sample from them in order to 247 00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:55.559 compare it to the sample found at the crime scene 248 00:13:55.639 --> 00:13:58.960 that was used in the DNA tracing. Moore, who has 249 00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:01.360 turned over similar vas evidence to cops two hundred and 250 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:04.360 fifty times through a company, says this part of the 251 00:14:04.399 --> 00:14:07.799 process is often carried out the same way it's portrayed 252 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:12.159 in films and TV shows. Genetic genealogy is only a 253 00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:16.039 lead generator. It's not evidence. It can't be used to 254 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:19.679 arrest anyone or in a warrant. We'll write a report 255 00:14:19.759 --> 00:14:22.600 up explain how we came to this conclusion. Then law 256 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:25.919 enforcement have to take this information and to a full investigation. 257 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:30.120 It's a highly scientific tip, but police still have to 258 00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:33.200 start from scratch. Once they get it, they have to 259 00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:36.360 go and collect their DNA, which they do by following them. 260 00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:38.399 We've heard that's what happened in this case. 261 00:14:38.919 --> 00:14:42.639 People don't get arrested based on my work alone, and 262 00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:44.679 that's definitely what we've heard. We heard that he was 263 00:14:44.759 --> 00:14:47.679 under surveillance, that they were following him, and they followed 264 00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:50.159 him all the way across the country. In fact, so 265 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:54.720 chances are they could have collected DNA pretty easily. What 266 00:14:54.759 --> 00:14:58.000 they get arrested for is one's law enforcement has collected 267 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:00.879 their DNA surreptitiously and can I parted it against the 268 00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:04.120 sample found at the scene using only twenty DNA markers, 269 00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:07.360 and the lab says this is a match. Hopefully then 270 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:12.480 they can arrest, prosecute, and hopefully convict. The genetic genealogy 271 00:15:12.519 --> 00:15:15.279 portion is not presented to the jury. It is not 272 00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:18.120 something that needs to be explained in court. There are 273 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:21.159 teams all over the country doing this on so many occasions, 274 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:25.799 following these suspects that have been identified, collecting cups and napkins, 275 00:15:25.879 --> 00:15:29.480 and sometimes they'll go through their trash. They've even used 276 00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:33.879 envelopes that have been licked. We leave our DNA behind everywhere. 277 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:37.639 Once you've been identified as a potential suspect, they are 278 00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:40.639 going to get your DNA. Police have not yet revealed 279 00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:44.480 their evidence against Colberger. He is awaiting extradition from Pennsylvania 280 00:15:44.679 --> 00:15:47.279 to Idaho, and once they lock onto you, like it 281 00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:50.240 said here, it's only a matter of time before they 282 00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:53.320 find out who you are and trace you using this DNA. 283 00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:57.879 Moore said. The case highlights the need to run genetic 284 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:02.639 genealogy testing immediately after an unidentified sample is collected in 285 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:06.399 a crime scene. I've been advocating for using this immediately 286 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:08.840 as soon as they don't get the first hit in 287 00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:12.000 the police database. It looks like that's exactly what they 288 00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:15.240 did here. It can stop criminals in their tracks and 289 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:18.639 prevent other people from being hurt. This can stop serial 290 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:21.960 killers and rapists because we can identify them after the 291 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:24.799 first time. This could have been a Ted Bundy or 292 00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:27.960 a Zodiac killer. She said, and she's not wrong. We 293 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:30.879 don't know. We have no idea what was going on 294 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:34.440 in Brian Koberger's brain or what he's capable of. Besides 295 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:37.320 the fact he's capable of four murders, but we don't 296 00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:40.399 know what his other motivations were. We don't know what 297 00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:43.399 he was thinking about doing next. So it's a good 298 00:16:43.399 --> 00:16:46.279 thing in my opinion, that this man is behind bars. 299 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:50.039 If he is the person responsible for these murders the 300 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:52.919 way the police says he is, then he's exactly where 301 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:57.919 he belongs, right behind bars. As far as the article itself, 302 00:16:58.200 --> 00:16:59.960 I found it fascinating to get a little bit more 303 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:03.120 context about how this all works. Like I said, I'm 304 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:05.759 not hip to all of the forensic collection and how 305 00:17:05.799 --> 00:17:08.200 all of this goes down. So anytime we can add 306 00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:12.279 a little bit of context, we'll certainly do that. 307 00:17:12.279 --> 00:17:13.680 That's gonna do it for this one. 308 00:17:13.799 --> 00:17:15.759 If you'd like to contact me, you can do that 309 00:17:15.880 --> 00:17:19.319 at Bobby Kapuchi at proton mail dot com. That's Bo 310 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:24.240 Bby capu Cci at proton mail dot com. 311 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:25.440 You can also find me on. 312 00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:31.480 Twitter at Bobby Underscore cap u Cci. The link that 313 00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:33.200 I discussed can be found in. 314 00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:35.440 The description bot Lucky Lind Casino. 315 00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:39.359 What's up everyone, and welcome back to the program. The 316 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:43.160 authorities in Moscow have collected a lot of evidence against 317 00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:47.799 Brian Coberger, but the strongest evidence they have obviously is 318 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:51.079 the DNA evidence that was left on the knife sheath. 319 00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:55.240 And considering that and knowing what we know, it's no 320 00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:59.359 shock to anybody that Brian Coberger's team is attempting to 321 00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:04.279 poke upon holes in how this DNA was collected. They're 322 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:08.720 hoping for a technicality, they're hoping for a loophole, and 323 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:11.880 they're hoping for something that's going to get Brian Colberger 324 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:15.400 off because so far what they've offered isn't going to 325 00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:18.799 do the trick Besides making a few allegations about the 326 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:23.839 investigation itself, Coburger's legal team hasn't really brought anything forward 327 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:26.200 that would make me say to myself, Okay, hold on 328 00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:28.759 a minute here, we might be on the wrong track 329 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:32.279 and Brian Coberger could be an innocent man. Now. I 330 00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:35.000 understand that the burden of proof is on the state, 331 00:18:35.559 --> 00:18:38.480 But when you look at this process and how far 332 00:18:38.599 --> 00:18:41.920 we've come already, and as you know, we're following along 333 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:44.799 with the court documents, there hasn't been one time in 334 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:48.160 public or in those court documents where I've thought for 335 00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:52.559 a second that the evidence that's been presented doesn't add up, 336 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:55.599 or that something that the prosecution said in the affid 337 00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:59.400 David doesn't make sense, because all of it does so far. 338 00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:03.920 And then you add on the outside element of the evidence, 339 00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:07.759 talking about the cell phone pings and the more circumstantial stuff. 340 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:10.720 And when you add that all up and you mix 341 00:19:10.759 --> 00:19:12.799 it up nice and good and then put it in 342 00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:17.160 the oven, well what comes out is a almost. 343 00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:17.759 Perfectly baked cake. 344 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:20.799 So for me, I always like to look at the 345 00:19:20.839 --> 00:19:24.519 totality of the evidence that's presented, rather than getting caught 346 00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:27.680 up on just one single piece of evidence that I 347 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:31.319 think is super important because all of the evidence collected, 348 00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:34.599 it's all going to go to build that foundation for 349 00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:37.440 them to get the conviction that they're looking for. So 350 00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:41.079 keeping on that track, we have an article from Newsweek 351 00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:44.839 talking about the DNA dispute that's going on between the 352 00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:50.759 prosecution and the defense, headline how DNA dispute could impact 353 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:55.720 Brian Coberger's case. This article was authored by Gerard Keonga, 354 00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:00.480 an attorney, has explained why Brian Coberger's defense he is 355 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:04.160 attempting to cast out on the DNA evidence the prosecution 356 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:08.079 is relying on in the University of Idaho murder case. 357 00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:13.880 On August ninth, doctor Leah Larkin, a genealogist expert working 358 00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:17.680 with Coburger's defense team, filed an affid David, calling into 359 00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:21.960 question the reliability of the use of genetic genealogy, which 360 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:26.559 investigators used prior to arresting them. Now, look, when you're 361 00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:29.799 a drowning man, what are you going to do. You're 362 00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:32.680 going to look for any piece of debris that might 363 00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:35.599 be floating in the ocean next to you. And that's 364 00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:39.200 exactly what's happening here. They're gonna throw as much spaghetti 365 00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:42.799 at the wall, hoping that some of it sticks. And 366 00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:46.200 what they're looking for is a chain of custody issue. 367 00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:51.599 Maybe somebody didn't catalog something correctly. Maybe somebody you know, 368 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:54.519 didn't dot an I here or didn't cross the tee there. 369 00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:57.440 That's the sort of thing that they're looking for to 370 00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:00.319 try and get this DNA evidence tossed out. And the 371 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:03.680 reason that they're so concerned about this DNA evidence is 372 00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:07.400 because they know as lawyers that it's very strong and 373 00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:12.640 powerful evidence against their client. Criminal defense attorney Rachel Faset, 374 00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:18.000 managing partner of Los Angeles based Zwyback, Facet and Zaldonado, 375 00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:21.839 spoke to Newsweek and said the defense hopes to confuse 376 00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:26.279 the jury regarding the issue of DNA science and its 377 00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:31.039 reliability in this case. Yeah, good luck, good frickin' luck 378 00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:33.839 doing that. I don't think there's anyone amongst us at 379 00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:37.200 this point who doesn't understand that DNA evidence is the 380 00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:41.039 strongest evidence that you could possibly have short of having 381 00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:44.559 a bunch of eyewitnesses. What else puts somebody at the 382 00:21:44.599 --> 00:21:47.960 scene better than their DNA And I had a hunch 383 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:50.200 that this would be the strategy. This is what I've 384 00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:52.880 said from the beginning. I haven't seen any evidence from 385 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:55.759 Coburger or any evidence overall. 386 00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:57.839 That would lead me to believe that they have the 387 00:21:57.880 --> 00:21:58.400 wrong guy. 388 00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:02.799 So when that happened and somebody like Coburger has been 389 00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:06.000 arrested on these charges and they don't have anything to 390 00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:10.359 go on, it becomes a game of loopholes and technicalities. 391 00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:13.839 We've seen it a million times before, and we'll see 392 00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:17.079 it a million times in the future, because it's literally 393 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:22.759 your only shot, your only path to avoid conviction. Newsweek 394 00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:26.640 also spoke to biology professor Greg happy Keian of the 395 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:30.240 University of Idaho and co director of the Idaho Innocence 396 00:22:30.279 --> 00:22:34.160 Project about how the points raised by Larkin are valid 397 00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:38.000 and the potential issues that can arise with authorities use 398 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:43.200 of genetic genealogy in criminal investigations. Well, of course, if 399 00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:48.319 there's irregularities or misconduct, then any sort of test can 400 00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:50.440 be thrown out. But to try and act like the 401 00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:54.680