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Test your 18 00:00:49.520 --> 00:00:52.320 luck in the shadowy world at the Godfather Slough. 19 00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:55.359 Someday I will call upon you to do a service 20 00:00:55.399 --> 00:00:55.640 for me. 21 00:00:55.759 --> 00:00:58.600 Play the Godfather now at chumpacasino dot com. 22 00:00:58.640 --> 00:01:00.960 Welcome to the Family vdW group. 23 00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:01.719 No purchase necessary. 24 00:01:01.719 --> 00:01:03.479 If we were primitted by loss he terms and conditions 25 00:01:03.479 --> 00:01:04.040 eighteen plus. 26 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:14.719 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 27 00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:17.840 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 28 00:01:17.879 --> 00:01:25.159 written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK Every 29 00:01:25.239 --> 00:01:28.879 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 30 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:33.200 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 31 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:36.439 host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 32 00:01:45.079 --> 00:01:48.480 Good evening. When the body of a young, gay black man, 33 00:01:48.599 --> 00:01:52.000 Jammel Moore was pulled out of the West Hollywood apartment 34 00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:56.159 of Ed Buck, a white millionaire donor to the Democratic Party, 35 00:01:56.359 --> 00:02:00.439 the coroner called it an accidental overdose. The police didn't 36 00:02:00.519 --> 00:02:03.359 arrest Buck, and the media refused to report on it. 37 00:02:03.799 --> 00:02:07.319 But just eighteen months later, when a second black man, 38 00:02:07.359 --> 00:02:10.280 Timothy Dean, was found dead in the same apartment from 39 00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:14.159 the same drug, the police still didn't arrest Buck, sparking 40 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:18.080 a series of terrifying questions. Why was Buck still free 41 00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:21.560 when two men had died in his home surrounded by drugs, 42 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:25.240 How much were his wealth and political connections protecting him, 43 00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:28.080 and how many more men might have been harmed in 44 00:02:28.120 --> 00:02:32.960 that apartment. In White Smoke, America's chem sex Killer, investigative 45 00:02:33.039 --> 00:02:37.680 journalist Patrick Strudwick uncovers the secret world behind this explosive 46 00:02:37.919 --> 00:02:42.360 Hollywood scandal. Through original reporting, we discover how a cocktail 47 00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:47.560 of power, racism, sexual exploitation, and drug abuse had been 48 00:02:47.639 --> 00:02:51.800 detonating in Buck's apartment for years, and how it's connected 49 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:54.960 to a wider chem sex scene playing out in queer 50 00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:58.719 communities all around the world, one that provides the perfect 51 00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:02.520 hunting ground for predators, but those communities are fighting back. 52 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:05.599 In this series, we meet the men who lived a 53 00:03:05.719 --> 00:03:09.439 nightmare inside Buck's apartment, the friends of the men who died, 54 00:03:09.639 --> 00:03:12.560 and the activist who triggered a movement to get Buck 55 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:13.520 off the streets. 56 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:14.560 The book that. 57 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:18.759 We're featuring this evening is White Smoke, America's Chem Sex Killer, 58 00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:23.560 an Audible original, with my special guest, investigative journalist and 59 00:03:23.639 --> 00:03:27.960 documentary filmmaker Patrick Strudwick. Welcome to the program, and thank 60 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:29.199 you very much for this interview. 61 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:32.400 Patrick Strudwick, Thank you so much for having me town. 62 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:36.360 Thank you so much, and congratulations on this extraordinary bout 63 00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:38.840 of storytelling this audible original. 64 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:44.240 I appreciate that it's been a huge task over several 65 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:49.879 years to bring this story to listeners, to piece together 66 00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:54.159 all the information that we needed to fully understand what 67 00:03:54.280 --> 00:03:55.039 really happened. 68 00:03:55.719 --> 00:03:59.400 Tell us a little bit about your investigative journalism background 69 00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:03.680 and before we talk about exactly when and why you 70 00:04:03.800 --> 00:04:07.599 decided to do this investigation and wound up with this 71 00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:09.240 audible original series. 72 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:12.039 So I've been a journalist here in the UK for 73 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:16.600 the last twenty years and my background in terms of 74 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:20.879 investigative journalism was an unusual one in that it began 75 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:24.519 thirteen years ago when I decided to go under cover 76 00:04:25.079 --> 00:04:31.279 to investigate so called therapists who tried to make gay 77 00:04:31.319 --> 00:04:35.759 people straight, conversion therapists as they know. So I subjected 78 00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:41.120 myself to conversion therapy in order to expose therapists in 79 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:44.240 the UK who were doing that. At the time, we 80 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:47.319 knew that this was happening in the US pretty broadly, 81 00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:51.199 but not in the UK. That was where my investigative 82 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:58.600 work began. After that, I became the first LGBT specialist 83 00:04:58.600 --> 00:05:02.519 reporter in Britain in a British news room, and it 84 00:05:02.600 --> 00:05:07.759 was really during that period that I began looking into 85 00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:13.160 the issues behind this case. So in Europe, principally, we 86 00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:18.000 call it chem sex KEM for chemicals drugs. 87 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:18.560 Sex for sex. 88 00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:24.360 In America, principally it's called p and p party and play. 89 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:29.240 And there was a major case in the UK surrounding 90 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:33.040 the serial killer Stephen Port. I'm sure will be familiar 91 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:36.839 to you and some of your listeners. Stephen Port was 92 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:40.680 convicted in late twenty sixteen of the murder of four 93 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:46.199 young men and his weapon was the drug GHB, which 94 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:50.360 is very powerful sedative and formally anesthetic, and he would 95 00:05:50.439 --> 00:05:56.439 use HB to sedate his victims, rape them and kill them. 96 00:05:56.800 --> 00:06:03.079 And while that trial was underwe I began talking to 97 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:06.920 principally gay men in London who had been involved in 98 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:10.199 the chem sex scene in London to find out what 99 00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:14.639 was going on beyond this famous serial killer. And what 100 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:21.399 I discovered was a hidden epidemic of drugging, sexual and 101 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:26.680 physical violence or taking place within this scene that was 102 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:32.600 very much behind closed doors because principally men are meeting 103 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:37.319 each other for sex, often through dating apps, hook up 104 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:41.920 hats and meeting in private homes, so you're behind closed 105 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:49.079 doors literally and taking mostly two different drugs, GHB and 106 00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:55.800 crystal math. The problem with these drugs is that GHB 107 00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:59.720 is very dangerous because it's very easy to overdose and 108 00:06:59.800 --> 00:07:04.040 just flippant into a coma stop breathing and die. Meth 109 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:09.800 is very dangerous because, as a very powerful stimulant, it 110 00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:16.560 can radically alter your behavior. It's pretty addictive, and it 111 00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:22.040 is so disinhibiting and so kind of supercharging that it 112 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:23.160 can really bring out. 113 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:24.000 The worst in people. 114 00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:26.959 If you put those two drugs together in a situation 115 00:07:27.079 --> 00:07:31.920 where few people are meeting for anonymous sex, you can 116 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:36.879 see how if one of those parties is vulnerable and 117 00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:42.480 the other person has abusive or exploitative impulses, it's a 118 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:47.480 recipe for disaster. And so I began to uncover what 119 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:51.040 was happening within this scene. First of all, so that's 120 00:07:51.079 --> 00:07:56.759 twenty sixteen. Now. The following year, my first love, my 121 00:07:56.920 --> 00:08:01.399 first boyfriend from the nineteen nine nineties, ended up in 122 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:07.079 a coma from an accidental g HB incident with his 123 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:11.920 drink was spiked, and later that year started dating someone 124 00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:15.279 else who'd also been in a coma for several days 125 00:08:15.319 --> 00:08:19.199 because of PHB. And so what was happening is what 126 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:23.160 I was reporting on in a professional capacity, was seeping 127 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:28.600 into my private life, and people around me, friends, acquaintances, 128 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:33.320 started dying from this same drug, and I just had 129 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:39.559 this sudden, horrible, chilling vision of really A what was happening, 130 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:43.799 what was already happening, and B where this could be heading, 131 00:08:44.200 --> 00:08:48.279 even though at that point I didn't know that there 132 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:52.039 was about to be another case which threw in a 133 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:53.279 whole different. 134 00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:56.399 Other ingredient, and that ingredient was racism. 135 00:08:56.720 --> 00:09:01.720 So in twenty seventeen, a year after the Stephen Port trial, 136 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:06.240 the first body is a moved from ed Buck's apartment 137 00:09:06.279 --> 00:09:10.399 in West Hollywood, the body of Jamal Moore, twenty six 138 00:09:10.519 --> 00:09:13.639 years old, and the two of them together, if you 139 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:17.000 look at them, absolutely fit that format that I just 140 00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:20.320 referred to. One who is vulnerable in this case Jane 141 00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:26.720 Now he was young, black gay with no residence and 142 00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:30.440 was doing some escorting on the side. On the other hand, 143 00:09:30.759 --> 00:09:35.559 you have ed Buck, an older in his sixties, very rich, 144 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:40.799 white gay man who had connections. He had connections in 145 00:09:40.879 --> 00:09:44.919 high places within the Democratic Party because for years he'd 146 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:47.039 both been donating hundreds. 147 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:48.600 Of thousands of dollars. 148 00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:51.960 To key people both in local politics within the Democratic 149 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:57.320 Party in Los Angeles and national political figures. So there's 150 00:09:57.360 --> 00:10:02.000 a huge power difference there. In twenty seventeen, I heard 151 00:10:02.039 --> 00:10:05.279 about the Jamal Moore case, but at that point I 152 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:08.720 didn't know very much. I just thought it could be 153 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:13.720 an accident. It could be one isolated incident. I don't know, 154 00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:19.240 but I quickly started worrying because a movement of activists 155 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:24.759 started to spring up. Friends and family of Jamal Moore, 156 00:10:25.320 --> 00:10:31.440 along with local activists from black communities and LGBT communities, 157 00:10:31.879 --> 00:10:36.399 started demanding that the police really pay attention because ed 158 00:10:36.519 --> 00:10:40.080 Bark had not been arrested. And I think one of 159 00:10:40.120 --> 00:10:46.840 the most stunning initial facts in this case is if 160 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:51.360 you imagine police are called to a house an apartment 161 00:10:51.360 --> 00:10:55.919 building in West Hollywood with a dead body there, with 162 00:10:56.600 --> 00:11:02.600 drug paraphernalia and meth strewn around, and another guy perfectly 163 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:06.480 fine standing over the body, the idea that he would 164 00:11:06.519 --> 00:11:10.840 not even be arrested for possession of drugs. It's pretty 165 00:11:10.879 --> 00:11:16.679 astonishing as an outsider, in other words, a British person who, yes, 166 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:19.840 I've lived in California, I've spent a lot of time there, 167 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:22.200 but even so, I'm not an American, I'm not an 168 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:26.679 American citizen. And to an outsider, it's always been very 169 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:31.440 clear to me how odd the police are in America 170 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:36.960 on compared to many European countries. If you're found with 171 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:42.399 a few grands of cannabis, you can be arrested. So 172 00:11:42.799 --> 00:11:45.840 the idea that anyone could be found in possessions of 173 00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:48.639 large amounts of meth and a dead body on their 174 00:11:48.679 --> 00:11:54.559 living room carpet and would not be arrested. This set 175 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:59.320 all my internal alarm bells off. So those kept ringing 176 00:11:59.480 --> 00:12:06.120 over the next year, and that group of activists kept protesting, 177 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:11.679 kept speaking out, kept giving interviews to the media. They 178 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:16.840 were protesting outside bugs and they were protesting outside the 179 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:23.399 Sheriff's department, outside West Hollywood City Council and still nothing. 180 00:12:23.879 --> 00:12:30.279 And meanwhile, the district Attorney, Jackie Lacy was being personally 181 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:36.360 singled out, personally blamed, which is very embarrassing. And what's 182 00:12:36.440 --> 00:12:42.080 striking also as an outsider, is that das are directly 183 00:12:42.120 --> 00:12:46.919 elected and so of course their personal popularity really matters 184 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:52.360 to them. Yet she did nothing. So again I thought, 185 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:57.879 this is this is a really astonishing situation, and I 186 00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:01.200 just kept monitoring it. What's going on here? I don't know, 187 00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:05.840 I'm thousands of miles away. What can I do? And then, 188 00:13:06.679 --> 00:13:11.559 eighteen months after Jameel Wore was found dead in Bucks apartment, 189 00:13:12.200 --> 00:13:17.080 a second gay man, Timothy Dean, aged fifty five was 190 00:13:17.159 --> 00:13:22.279 then found dead in the same circumstances, a meth overdose, 191 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:27.159 and his body was pulled out early one morning in 192 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:31.279 January twenty nineteen, and there was a further flurry of 193 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:36.480 media attention. There were further protests. This is now a pattern. 194 00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:42.399 Two black men pulled out of one apartment, the same 195 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:46.399 man standing over him, the same drugs involved, and still 196 00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:50.480 no arrest. It was then that I realized this is 197 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:55.559 something much bigger. This isn't a one off accident. This 198 00:13:55.639 --> 00:14:01.039 is a pattern, and if two men have died there, 199 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:05.960 how many more men might have been harmed there? At 200 00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:09.399 that time, I just started making a documentary in London 201 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:13.559 about the drug GHB and how it was being used 202 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:18.159 to rape and kill principally gay men. So for the 203 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:22.759 next nine months I was busy doing that while still 204 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:27.559 monitoring the situation in West Hollywood. But as soon as 205 00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:31.519 that was over in the September, I got on a 206 00:14:31.559 --> 00:14:36.399 plane to Los Angeles and started investigating them. I started 207 00:14:36.759 --> 00:14:40.759 interviewing as many people as I could, both directly connected 208 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:45.480 to the case, but also people with more tangential connections 209 00:14:45.919 --> 00:14:51.000 but were able to explain what was happening to black 210 00:14:51.080 --> 00:14:55.960 men in these P and P situations where there's meth 211 00:14:56.159 --> 00:15:00.960 and GHB involved. And I sort of thought i'd heard 212 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:04.159 it all down. I thought I'd heard everything there was 213 00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:07.080 to know about camp sex or P and P, and 214 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:11.039 I thought I'd heard a firm amount about racism in America. 215 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:13.919 But what I hadn't heard was what happens when those 216 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:18.480 two things meet. And what I began to realize was 217 00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:24.759 that there are sides to people's fetishes which can be 218 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:28.879 informed by racism, and when you add certain drugs to that, 219 00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:34.240 you're really creating an extremely dangerous situation. And many of 220 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:37.240 the black men that were interviewed on my first reporting 221 00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:43.879 trip invoked the same thing, which was plantation slavery dynamics. 222 00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:51.080 So there were a lot of well off white men 223 00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:57.279 in West Hollywood who would entice young men of color, 224 00:15:57.480 --> 00:16:01.200 Black and Latino to their homes with the promise of 225 00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:06.559 money or drugs or both, or the promise of having 226 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:10.600 sex with other attractive young men when they got there. 227 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:14.440 Because if you host a chem sex party a P 228 00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:19.120 and P party, you can invite ten twenty people, and 229 00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:24.919 if you're an old, unattractive man that owns the house 230 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:27.080 and owns the drugs, and owns them and has the money. 231 00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:31.480 Then you can get whoever you want there, and they 232 00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:34.440 may not particularly want to have sex with you, that 233 00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:36.759 they might want to have sex with all these other people, 234 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:40.440 and when there's enough drugs involved, who knows the problem 235 00:16:40.519 --> 00:16:44.840 being that if you're an older white man who has 236 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:48.519 a particular fetish for black men, I think that we 237 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:54.240 get into problems when that fetish is dehumanizing, when it 238 00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:58.519 reduces people to a stereotype, a particular image of a 239 00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:03.480 black man, or even particular body parts. And the disinhibition 240 00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:09.720 involved with meth and with GHB means that all those 241 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:13.799 dark fantasies that someone might have that normally might remain 242 00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:18.400 in their head are just ripped open in those situations. 243 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:22.039 So you have people who might be in need of 244 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:25.039 somewhere to stay, who might be in need of money, 245 00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:27.519 or might be needed in need of some drugs, either 246 00:17:27.799 --> 00:17:31.440 because they're addicted or because they just need some escape 247 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:35.440 because their life is quite difficult. Entering into these homes, 248 00:17:35.599 --> 00:17:40.039 and before they know it, they're being encouraged or forced 249 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:42.960 to do things they don't want to do, either taking 250 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:45.880 more drugs than they want to or having sex with 251 00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:48.839 people they don't want to or a combination of both 252 00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:52.359 of those things. So that was my first reporting chip 253 00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:56.319 to Los Angeles in twenty nineteen, and I published a 254 00:17:56.359 --> 00:18:00.000 series of articles in early twenty twenty about my experience. 255 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:02.599 It is there, But even then I knew that I 256 00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:07.039 was only just scratching surface, and so later that year 257 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:12.759 I then began to pull together a team to bring 258 00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:17.960 this story to audio, to really go into it in 259 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:24.319 extraordinary debt. And so I spoke to Michael Rice, who 260 00:18:25.079 --> 00:18:29.680 is a black gay filmmaker in New York who'd made 261 00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:33.680 a film in twenty seventeen about how NEF was being 262 00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:38.880 weaponized against black gay men by white gay men. And 263 00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:44.759 this documentary really opened my eyes to the potential for harm. 264 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:49.200 So we got together with a production company in London, 265 00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:54.240 approached Audible, and we then spent the next two years 266 00:18:54.680 --> 00:18:57.000 making making this ten part series. 267 00:18:57.680 --> 00:19:01.839 You talk to many friends and people in the community, 268 00:19:01.839 --> 00:19:05.960 in the queer community that knew Jamel and new Tim 269 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:09.240 and also knew of ed Buck. But the thing that 270 00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:13.279 really revealed the information that is contained in this book 271 00:19:13.640 --> 00:19:16.519 was Dane Brown and what happened to him and the 272 00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:21.240 resulting diary that he kept and the circumstances in which 273 00:19:21.559 --> 00:19:24.519 ed Buck came to the attention of police again, but 274 00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:27.799 with far more powerful testimony from Dane Brown. Tell us 275 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:30.960 what happens with Dane Brown and ed Buck that one 276 00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:33.440 faithful evening in his apartment. 277 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:38.599 Yes, well, Dane Brown is the key person in this case. 278 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:42.319 He was the pivot upon which it alas did because 279 00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:48.079 in early summer of twenty nineteen, Dane Brown had become homeless. 280 00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:51.720 He was living in skid Row, which everyone has heard 281 00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:55.519 of and is notorious around the world, and perhaps deservedly so. 282 00:19:55.839 --> 00:20:00.000 I've just spent time there. He needed an escape, literally 283 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:04.680 escapes from skid Row and also a psychological escape. As 284 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:07.759 he said to me, he was trying to escape hopelessness 285 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:11.480 as well as homelessness, and so he started chatting to 286 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:16.119 ed Buck on a gay dating website and they met 287 00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:20.039 in person. He didn't know anything about who he was. 288 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:24.039 He'd not heard about Jammel Moore and Timothy Dean. He 289 00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:27.039 just thought that this guy was a kind of intelligent 290 00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:31.079 and perfectly nice man. The problem was his own need 291 00:20:31.160 --> 00:20:35.160 for escape was so great that really he didn't He 292 00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:40.880 didn't probably see the warning signs, and before long he 293 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:44.279 was living in Buck's apart with him, he had nowhere 294 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:48.640 asked to go, And at that point, initially Dane was 295 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:53.119 not addicted to math. He would do it occasionally as 296 00:20:53.720 --> 00:20:58.440 I'd escape, as I say so. Living with Buck, whose 297 00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:04.400 fetishes were black men, white underwear, crystal math all mixed 298 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:11.519 together meant that Buck was pushing meth literally into him 299 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:16.119 and constantly pressuring him to take it, and so effectively 300 00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:20.119 the deal was, you can live here for free as 301 00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:23.480 long as you take math whenever I say so, and 302 00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:28.640 do whatever I say. Really, so, Dane was living there 303 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:33.160 doing more and more myth, smoking and injecting over the 304 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:38.519 summer of twenty nineteen. He became addicted while. 305 00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:38.920 He was there. 306 00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:42.240 Addiction to meth, as most people will know, is an 307 00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:48.519 extremely powerful situation to be in because if you stop 308 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:51.920 doing theth that can be very difficult coming off it. 309 00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:56.519 But you know, at that point he was becoming addicted 310 00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:02.759 while also gradually learning about Jamal Moore and Timothy Timothy 311 00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:08.160 Dean what had happened there. So those two things were 312 00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:13.119 kind of escalating at the same time, and it came 313 00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:16.880 to a head. He overdose the first time at the 314 00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:21.240 very beginning of September twenty nineteen, ended up in hospital, 315 00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:25.440 but again had nowhere else to go, so went back 316 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:31.839 and then overdosed again. And it was the second overdose 317 00:22:32.720 --> 00:22:37.400 which would change everything, but had given him both GHB 318 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:42.960 and meth. And if you can imagine that, GHB is 319 00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:50.519 a huge sedative effectively, and meth is a very substantial stimulant, 320 00:22:50.839 --> 00:22:53.440 So the two things together are a very odd combination 321 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:57.720 and very dangerous physically because your heart doesn't know what 322 00:22:57.880 --> 00:23:00.519 on earth it should be doing, so it's easy to 323 00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:01.200 have heart attack. 324 00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:02.079 In that situation. 325 00:23:02.839 --> 00:23:06.960 He found himself lying on bucks floor in the very 326 00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:10.880 spot that Jamal Moore and Timothy Dean had both died in. 327 00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:16.480 Overwhelmed by math and GHB, Buck had already slammed the 328 00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:19.480 bottom door into his back when he went for a 329 00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:23.599 shower because he was feeling awful. Now he's slumped on 330 00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:28.319 the floor and he's really effectively starting to fade away 331 00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:33.599 until he began to hear his late mother's voice just 332 00:23:34.279 --> 00:23:37.799 ringing in his head telling him to get up, saying, Dane, 333 00:23:38.319 --> 00:23:39.400 get up, get up. 334 00:23:39.480 --> 00:23:39.680 Day. 335 00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:42.960 And it was that the sound of his late mother's 336 00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:48.119 voice ringing in his ears that gave him the impetus 337 00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:52.960 to somehow get up onto his feet and get out 338 00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:56.599 of that apartment once and for all. So you can 339 00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:03.319 see him on CCTV footage walking down the exterior staircase 340 00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:07.680 of Ed Buck's apartment building, bringing on because he is 341 00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:13.240 overdosing in that moment and trying to stay alive and 342 00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:18.559 trying to escape. He then makes it down North Lowell Avenue, 343 00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:24.279 where Buck's apartment was situated, onto the intersection, and across 344 00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:28.319 the intersection there's a gas station with a kiosk out front. 345 00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:31.880 He goes to the kiosk and asks the guy in 346 00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:36.680 the kiosk to phone nine one one. He's taken to 347 00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:41.559 the hospital and they look after him. And even that 348 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:47.279 would not be the pivotal moment. Really, Buck has only 349 00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:51.799 himself to blame for everything turning against him at this 350 00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:55.759 point in terms of the police, because what he did 351 00:24:55.960 --> 00:25:01.240 was one final act of cruelty to Dan Brown, which is, 352 00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:07.559 when Dane got out of hospital, he went back to 353 00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:10.759 get his things and Buck didn't want to give him 354 00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:15.799 his things. Now, given that Dane was otherwise homeless, unemployed, 355 00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:21.119 had very few belongings, but the belongings he did have, 356 00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:25.279 such as you know, a laptop and a phone, were 357 00:25:25.480 --> 00:25:29.559 absolutely critical for him to be able to get another job. 358 00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:32.799 This is someone with a degree in computer science. You know, 359 00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:37.920 he's you know, very employable in the white circumstances. Buck 360 00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:41.880 refused to give him his staff. So that was when 361 00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:44.960 Dame said, well, I'm going to go to the police. 362 00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:50.519 Day went to West Hollywood Police station to report his 363 00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:55.440 belongings being withheld from him, not to report Buck for 364 00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:01.200 you know, forcibly injecting him with meth or bringing him 365 00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:05.079 to the point of death. He started speaking to officers there. 366 00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:11.119 They went back to Buck's apartments to speak to Bark. 367 00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:15.880 They told Dane to go and wait for them. They 368 00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:18.680 went to a local library. Sat in the local library. 369 00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:24.039 Some point within that the officers spoke to their colleagues 370 00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:30.160 in the FBI. The FBI had been investigating Buck for months, 371 00:26:31.480 --> 00:26:37.960 and finally they have a victim who is ready to talk, 372 00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:44.960 who is completely credible, who can give them extraordinary detail, 373 00:26:45.319 --> 00:26:49.559 and who, unlike everyone else, had actually lived there for 374 00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:53.240 several weeks and so it could give them an extraordinary 375 00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:56.359 insight into what was really going on. Yes, so before 376 00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:58.799 you know it, the FBI is talking to Dane Brown, 377 00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:03.319 and when they have his testimony, they suddenly swoop and 378 00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:07.559 days later they finally arrest ed buck. 379 00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:10.240 Let's us as an opportunity to stop for a second 380 00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:13.400 to hear from our sponsor. Are you aware that today, 381 00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:16.079 on average, it can take up to eleven weeks to 382 00:27:16.119 --> 00:27:19.160 be able to hire for an open position for your business. 383 00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:22.599 If you're a growing business and looking to hire, you 384 00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:25.559 just can't afford to wait eleven weeks. Well, if you're 385 00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:29.079 listening today, I've got some advice for you. Stop waiting 386 00:27:29.319 --> 00:27:33.759 and start using zip recruiter. 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