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Speaker 1: Welcome to Applied Save America. I'm John Favrau, I'm John
Speaker 1: Love It Tommy Utur. On today's show, we'll talk about
Speaker 1: the war with Iran, which claimed more American lives over
Speaker 1: the weekend and wounded dozens, which the Pentagon is trying
Speaker 1: to hide. We'll also talk about Ice being back in
Speaker 1: the headlines after killing people in Texas and Maine. Stalk
Speaker 1: about how the administration is responding and what we know
Speaker 1: about how Trump's deportation agenda is playing with voters, Latino
Speaker 1: voters in particular. We also have a bunch of news
Speaker 1: from the world of Democratic primary campaigns. Former Maine Senate
Speaker 1: President Troy Jackson is all but certain to be the
Speaker 1: Democratic nominee to take on Susan Collins in Maine. There's
Speaker 1: more chaos in the Wisconsin governor's race, and AOC and
Speaker 1: Bernie rallied for Abdul l Said in Michigan as his
Speaker 1: primary against Haley Stevens heats up. But let's start with
Speaker 1: some big news from the weekend. Spain's one tozer win
Speaker 1: over Argentina in the World Cup final in the Meadowlands,
Speaker 1: capping off an incredible tournament. No one is sadder about
Speaker 1: it ending than Donald Trump. Wasn't about to let her
Speaker 1: return to full on war with Iran stop him from
Speaker 1: inserting himself into the closing ceremony.
Speaker 3: President of the United States on the field.
Speaker 1: Is now so they can out of the can edit him.
Speaker 3: Out of that.
Speaker 1: Australian broadcaster at the end there, do you guys see
Speaker 1: the caption of the picture in the Guardian now where
Speaker 1: Infantino is with Trump and it's just the two of them,
Speaker 1: and the caption is Giohnny. Infantino carefully explains to Donald
Speaker 1: Trump that he is not part of the Spanish national team.
Speaker 2: It's about right though.
Speaker 3: Like the energy of accidentally realizing you're in the money
Speaker 3: shot of a beach wedding, you know, like that, that
Speaker 3: is what it reminded me of, Like they're about to
Speaker 3: do it. Get the fuck out of the way.
Speaker 1: Did you see the team that the players were doing
Speaker 1: the Trump dance and therefore really appreciating his involvement because
Speaker 1: Trump did this to one of them and looking confused,
Speaker 1: he just was like, say, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2: Milk a cow back to you. Like my guess is
Speaker 2: they're just happy because they won the World Cup and
Speaker 2: this is the best day of their life. That would
Speaker 2: be my guess as to why they're happy.
Speaker 3: Like for sure, but if a monkey did a gesture
Speaker 3: to me at the zoo, I'd do it back. It
Speaker 3: wouldn't be a show of support for his politics.
Speaker 1: I might not throw my poo back at him.
Speaker 2: But right it's like, yeah, it's like it's cool to
Speaker 2: go to the game. I'd go if I could go.
Speaker 2: It's cool to present the trophy, but like, get out
Speaker 2: of the way, dude. And you also did this at
Speaker 2: the FIFA World Cup final in like twenty twenty five,
Speaker 2: and like you can see Infantino trying to get him
Speaker 2: to leave the stage and he.
Speaker 1: Just won't do it.
Speaker 2: He just basks in the glory of the cheering, like
Speaker 2: he genuinely believes it's for him. I would feel like
Speaker 2: imposter syndrome and run off there.
Speaker 3: I think he also believes he's wanted there. Like like
Speaker 3: I'm Donald Trump. Everybody loves when I'm part of their stuff.
Speaker 1: I'd feel imposter syndrome. If I was the president of
Speaker 1: United States and the US one right, pould still say
Speaker 1: something and be like extra proud, but I wouldn't get
Speaker 1: in the fucking picture.
Speaker 2: And especially with Spain, like the NATO sum had a
Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago, he said, quote, I don't want
Speaker 2: anything to do with Spain. They're hopeless bad people. He's
Speaker 2: gonna call them bad people because they like didn't support
Speaker 2: the war with Iran and didn't want us to use
Speaker 2: their basis.
Speaker 1: Did you see the USA today did a piece on
Speaker 1: the Trump curse and they calling it the Trump curse.
Speaker 4: Awesome.
Speaker 1: So I didn't know of all about all of these,
Speaker 1: but so Trump said before the World Cup final, he
Speaker 1: didn't pick a side, but he said it's hard to
Speaker 1: bet against Messiah. Argentina lose. Trump intervenes to get the
Speaker 1: red card reversed. US loses to Belgium. Trump shows up
Speaker 1: at the NBA Finals. It's the only game the Knicks lose.
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty five, Trump goes to the Washington Commander's Game.
Speaker 1: They lose to the Lions forty four to twenty two.
Speaker 1: That same year, he goes to the Ryder Cup, the
Speaker 1: US loses. They're calling it the Trump curse.
Speaker 2: It's so funny. The other thing about that Commander's game
Speaker 2: is so he goes to the Commander's game, the Commanders
Speaker 2: get stomped by the Lions, and then at that same game,
Speaker 2: Alliance receiver name I'm and Ross Saint Brown did the
Speaker 2: Trump dance, and then the Lions lose five of eight
Speaker 2: games and missed the playoffs. It's even better.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's like basically there's there's three possibilities. Okay,
Speaker 3: One is that it's luck. The other is that he
Speaker 3: brings a terrible energy everywhere he goes, right that he
Speaker 3: and that his that's documented, right for sure, I think,
Speaker 3: and that like corrupts anyone who's seen to be rooting
Speaker 3: for You can't help with someone playing knowing that Trump
Speaker 3: is on your side, allowed to infect you with the
Speaker 3: kind of negativity and failure that surrounds him. Do you
Speaker 3: think it's worth considering the third possibility, which is much
Speaker 3: like Odysseus discovering the Cyclops on his way home due
Speaker 3: to his failure to observe like morality and the conflict
Speaker 3: in Troy, Trump is being punished everywhere he goes.
Speaker 1: We all catching stray.
Speaker 3: Isn't that well that that's take it up with zeus,
Speaker 3: my friend men hard.
Speaker 1: We are the ones being sacrificed.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying it's a the punishment is it's not clean.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Gonna tell you my favorite Trump sports story from over
Speaker 2: the weekend is there's a golfer named Bryce and d Chambeau.
Speaker 2: Did you guys go across this get a melt down?
Speaker 2: At the Open Championship. You got a penalty for like
Speaker 2: just stepping in tall grass that would have gotten the
Speaker 2: way of his swing, and he got a two stroke penalty.
Speaker 2: So it throws a hissy He deserved, He totally deserved.
Speaker 2: He deserves. He throws a hissy fit, and he sucks
Speaker 2: he's annoying anyway. He throws his hissy fit. He threatens
Speaker 2: to not play the next day, basically quit the tournament
Speaker 2: and take his ball and go home. He takes all
Speaker 2: these rules officials, makes them visit the site, and then
Speaker 2: he goes back. In the midst of it. He threatens
Speaker 2: to call Trump and tattle on the mean rules officials
Speaker 2: if they don't give him as way.
Speaker 3: He also shut down the whole tournament too, right, they
Speaker 3: all had to wait with the words, and they all
Speaker 3: had to wait for him to be done with his
Speaker 3: his uh uh fit, and even the other players who
Speaker 3: are watching.
Speaker 1: Were like that, come on, man, yeah, I mean this
Speaker 1: is what Trump has created. You know. It's like everyone
Speaker 1: knows if they're friends with Trump or they suck up
Speaker 1: to Trump, they can just tattle and get what they want,
Speaker 1: or at least try to do that.
Speaker 3: Everybody's calling the manager, right, I want a table over.
Speaker 3: You know, I know Trump, but sir, you don't have
Speaker 3: a reservation. I know the owner.
Speaker 2: Of the German broadcast of the World Cup final. So
Speaker 2: they cut to Infantino and Trump in the box. They
Speaker 2: show them getting presented the trophy, and the announcers go, well,
Speaker 2: that's a violation of all the rules. Those two were
Speaker 2: made for each other, fascinated by power and by themselves too.
Speaker 1: Good stuff.
Speaker 3: HiT's good stuff, tough, tough to hear from Germans.
Speaker 2: The cool like the cool part of the story, right.
Speaker 2: That sort of suggests the Spanish team would not like
Speaker 2: Trump's politics. As one of the players, a guy named
Speaker 2: Nico Williams, his mom and dad walked two thousand miles
Speaker 2: from Ghana to Spain, she was pregnant with his older
Speaker 2: brother at the time. Like across the Sahara Desert, Barefoot
Speaker 2: managed to get into this tiny bit of Spanish territory
Speaker 2: to become citizens, and then he's playing on the national team.
Speaker 2: That's probably why he wouldn't like Trump's immigration.
Speaker 1: Yeah, wouldn't like his politics. He wouldn't be possible with
Speaker 1: Trump's politics. So unfortunately, Trump trying to make the World
Speaker 1: Cup about Trump did steal the spotlight from the tournament's
Speaker 1: real hero. Let's play it.
Speaker 5: We put on the largest sporting event in the history
Speaker 5: of the world, and everybody in winning pief in the
Speaker 5: White House looks at the the FBI, to our inner
Speaker 5: agency partners, the DHS, the state locals, to everybody to
Speaker 5: figure out how to get six and a half million
Speaker 5: people into the US and thenso these games without a
Speaker 5: single major security incident. We have lived up to that
Speaker 5: measure because you guys are put in the time. It's truly,
Speaker 5: truly incredible.
Speaker 1: We just can't say enough about the preparation and the
Speaker 1: execution has been flawless. He's in every shot. I thought
Speaker 1: of this was gonna like, you know, thinking like all
Speaker 1: the law enforcement officials who pulled this off. It's like, whatever,
Speaker 1: It's fine. Every single shot of that video is Cash Betel.
Speaker 3: Imagine if we had a crook at All hands to
Speaker 3: celebrate a year of making great content, and through it,
Speaker 3: we played a montage of just our headshots known.
Speaker 2: To be surprised.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and when I.
Speaker 2: Gotta laugh leaning with the chip, I gotta say what
Speaker 2: my So, I didn't watch that video before so we
Speaker 2: could see it live. My reaction to that video is,
Speaker 2: who is this for? You know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 2: who's getting jacked up to watch? Cash Btel? Is it
Speaker 2: for Donald Trump? Because he wants he wearing a suit,
Speaker 2: not like the weird thin hoodie T shirt thing.
Speaker 1: I think it's it's probably for Trump. It's also he's
Speaker 1: just in super defensive mode now, Cash Betel, because he
Speaker 1: thinks everyone's not fair, right. But it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: you think I'm drunk, and you think I fucked this up,
Speaker 1: and I tweet in the middle of investigations just because
Speaker 1: I try to, you know before before, So like I
Speaker 1: think he's just like, I'm gonna we got one. We
Speaker 1: did one, okay, so I'm going to brag about it now.
Speaker 3: It's interesting though, because it's like, let's just take it
Speaker 3: at phase value. Let's not even forget the aesthetics of it,
Speaker 3: which are ridiculous. Cash Motel, in what ways are you
Speaker 3: responsible for the World Cup going? Well? Just walk me
Speaker 3: through some of them.
Speaker 1: But saying he's responsible for the World Cup not not
Speaker 1: going badly.
Speaker 3: But that requires are you? But that that requires people
Speaker 3: wanting it to go badly? That he's stymied, right like right, like,
Speaker 3: what are you talking?
Speaker 1: I'm sure he's feeling like there was, you know, a
Speaker 1: planned attack on the UFC fight at the White House
Speaker 1: and they foiled that. So he's probably thinking himself like
Speaker 1: I didn't get enough credit. I need to put up
Speaker 1: videos from now on when there's no attacks.
Speaker 3: Not enough likes in faves for that foiled plot.
Speaker 2: It's just amazing, Like here's me waving getting out of
Speaker 2: my G five private jet. Man of the people, Cash Hotel. Also,
Speaker 2: the one thing we know that.
Speaker 1: Cash I think is interagency partners.
Speaker 2: Cash Mittel has been working hard on trying to arrest
Speaker 2: New York Times reporters who reported on Trump's air force One.
Speaker 2: Did you see today that the FBI or the dj
Speaker 2: IS subpoenad records not only from these journalists, but from
Speaker 2: their spouses and one reporter's mother. Yes, got the mother's
Speaker 2: phone records.
Speaker 1: I wonder if they'll bring that up to Trump any
Speaker 1: of the reporters in the White House Correspondence Association when
Speaker 1: he's on the Dais the correspondents dinner this week?
Speaker 3: Maybe? Yeah, maybe the mentalists can. Maybe doctor Oh's Can
Speaker 3: Can or whatever his name is, those those man night.
Speaker 1: It's a night where we're putting politics aside and the
Speaker 1: fact that you're snooping on our report. My mom's yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what're you was gonna put it aside for the
Speaker 1: night to just sort of honor, just be in the
Speaker 1: same room.
Speaker 2: I think O's could guess the mom Yeah it's good, Like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well yeah, why don't they just ask him for the.
Speaker 1: I forgot it's fucking O's Yeah.
Speaker 3: I know, I learned that. I learned that. I learned
Speaker 3: that from a magician. Yeah I really did. But but yeah,
Speaker 3: like we asked him, he'll know, you should just you
Speaker 3: do that, mentalize that.
Speaker 1: Mentalistic anyway, enough of that, Trump, who uh who just
Speaker 1: last month told reporters he was skipping his son's wedding
Speaker 1: because of quote a called Iran did not feel the
Speaker 1: same way about attending the World Cup, probably because, according
Speaker 1: to the White House, Iran is no longer much of
Speaker 1: a threat.
Speaker 3: They have been literally obliterated.
Speaker 6: Never in the history of warfare has an enemy suffered
Speaker 6: such clear and devastating, large scale losses in a matter
Speaker 6: of weeks.
Speaker 7: Iran has no air defenses, Iran has no air force,
Speaker 7: Iran has no navy. Operation Epic Fury was a historic
Speaker 7: and overwhelming victory on the battlefield.
Speaker 1: The United States has all the cards. The straits are
Speaker 1: now opened. The Iranian military is now destroyed.
Speaker 3: We've won. Let me tell it, We've won. You know,
Speaker 3: you never like to say too early. You won.
Speaker 2: We won the bet in the first hour. It was over. Well.
Speaker 1: Apparently someone forgot to tell the Iranians because they've been
Speaker 1: attacking US forces all over the Middle East for the
Speaker 1: last nine days straight. They've killed at least three Americans
Speaker 1: and likely a fourth that that soldier is still officially
Speaker 1: considered missing. The Iranian attacks in Jordan have also reported
Speaker 1: injured dozens of American troops and damaged helicopters, news that
Speaker 1: the Pentagon has just decided not to report, according to
Speaker 1: The New York Times, and if you're wondering how it's
Speaker 1: possible that Iran can still pull off these kinds of attacks.
Speaker 1: You're not alone, here's Fox News' Maria Barbarromo.
Speaker 4: I don't understand how it's possible that Iran has the
Speaker 4: capabilities to fight this way and continue to try to
Speaker 4: lash out at Gulf countries and US military bases because
Speaker 4: the US has obliterated Iran's military. And the President continues
Speaker 4: to reiterate.
Speaker 1: That I'm reading these talking points and for some reason,
Speaker 1: they're not true.
Speaker 3: I love the idea of her hold on a second.
Speaker 3: I mean just the camera follows her out down the
Speaker 3: stairs to another room with the whiteboard, and she starts
Speaker 3: doing the math on the whiteboard, trying to like figure
Speaker 3: out how the thing, and it's like, I don't, this doesn't,
Speaker 3: this isn't. I don't think they're I don't think they're
Speaker 3: telling the truth.
Speaker 1: The president keeps read. The President would not iterate, let
Speaker 1: alone reiterate if something's not true like this. He would
Speaker 1: never say that maybe.
Speaker 3: I just haven't been asking my questions loud enough.
Speaker 1: Trump doesn't have a good answer, or really any answer
Speaker 1: to Maria Berdromo's question. He threatened revenge on truth social
Speaker 1: and sent commonounce more strikes in retaliation. But this is
Speaker 1: all he said after the World's Cup when reporters asked
Speaker 1: about the Americans who were killed.
Speaker 6: We feel very badly, but you know, those great people,
Speaker 6: those great patriots, are out there fighting that Iran cannot
Speaker 6: have a nuclear weapon.
Speaker 3: This is a far bigger job that we're doing.
Speaker 6: We were doing a little job and stopping them from
Speaker 6: having a certain capability. Now we're just ending it.
Speaker 1: What Tommy, would you make of Trump's answer there just
Speaker 1: a little confusing and just the general developments over the weekend.
Speaker 2: Well, clearly he's pulling from a deep well of empathy
Speaker 2: at the top there. But on the bigger job part,
Speaker 2: it's like there's I think there's two ways to interpret it.
Speaker 2: One is like his factory setting is stuck on bullshit, right,
Speaker 2: so he's like, now we're reopening the street, and that's
Speaker 2: an even bigger message. He he just does hyperbolea with all things.
Speaker 2: But maybe it is the beginning of a bigger mission
Speaker 2: that could include like a permanent escort mission with the Navy,
Speaker 2: or taking territory on the coast to try to like
Speaker 2: permanently claim the Straight or from moves. I don't think
Speaker 2: we know. I don't think he knows yet probably what
Speaker 2: he wants to do. My assumption has been that Trump
Speaker 2: does not want to restart the war because he doesn't
Speaker 2: want to raise gas prices right now in advance of
Speaker 2: the midterms. But the weekends events show how dangerous the
Speaker 2: status quo is and that Iran is learning. The Journal
Speaker 2: had a piece about how they've adapted their missiles to
Speaker 2: move in the sort of like terminal part of the
Speaker 2: flight where they're coming downs they can evade our air defenses.
Speaker 2: And we still have tens of thousands of service members
Speaker 2: in the Middle East that seem like they're not well
Speaker 2: defended at all. And so like either way, like the reporting,
Speaker 2: it makes it sound like he wants to not go
Speaker 2: back to a full scale war. But as you noted,
Speaker 2: Iran has been hitting targets all over the Middle East,
Speaker 2: and the Pentagon is putting out statements that they've hit
Speaker 2: targets in Iran for the last ten nights in a row.
Speaker 1: So that's not a war.
Speaker 3: What is it we are read the war is restarted.
Speaker 3: It's whether he whether Trump wants to go so far
Speaker 3: as to acknowledge that the seas far that has failed
Speaker 3: has failed.
Speaker 1: Which he sort of has. I mean, he's like the
Speaker 1: MoU is done, who cares? But then and they've told
Speaker 1: Congress they're officially back in war.
Speaker 3: I guess the other distinction would be there would be
Speaker 3: some explanation for what the strategy is behind what they're hitting,
Speaker 3: other than as tit for tat degrading, Yeah, degrading capabilities generally.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is I mean, Trump very well may not
Speaker 1: want a return to full scale war for all the
Speaker 1: reasons you outlined, But this is the problem with escalation.
Speaker 1: It's like it's unpredictable, and they strike, and then we
Speaker 1: have to strike back, and then they strike back again,
Speaker 1: and so suddenly the space for diplomacy becomes very very small,
Speaker 1: and they just keep going after each other.
Speaker 3: Well, it also like Americans are dying. They're a group
Speaker 3: of fans, like he's at the World Cup. Their group
Speaker 3: of families are having the worst experience of their lives.
Speaker 3: Their lives are being ripped apart. Because Trump doesn't want
Speaker 3: the war to escalate because of his political reasons.
Speaker 2: This is just a blip.
Speaker 3: He's very sorry, it's very bad. It's so glib, But
Speaker 3: you know that if what he wanted to do is escalate,
Speaker 3: right if Americans had been killed and he was aiming
Speaker 3: to start the war, or he would just declare the
Speaker 3: greatest violence against the United States, right, like the American
Speaker 3: service member are in harm way being hurt by this
Speaker 3: are purely just sort of pawns either to be like
Speaker 3: either to downplay or lie about what's happening to them
Speaker 3: if it doesn't suit your story about how much work
Speaker 3: deestimating the military, or he can use it as an
Speaker 3: argument for why we need to escalate if he so chooses.
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Speaker 1: com slash croocket. Think about Benghazi with Obama, think about
Speaker 1: abby Gate with Biden in Afghanistan. Now we now have
Speaker 1: more Americans killed than in either of those situations. And
Speaker 1: this is one where the President United States and his
Speaker 1: entire administration have said the Iran is obliterated. We have
Speaker 1: one The mission is like not just mission accomplished, like oops,
Speaker 1: there was a banner behind Bush. This is like every
Speaker 1: day they're saying that their military is destroyed, decimated, the sky,
Speaker 1: We control the skies, the strait is open. And also
Speaker 1: for nothing the stated objectives, Like, they haven't done they
Speaker 1: haven't achieved anything. They didn't destroy the regime, they didn't
Speaker 1: get the they didn't make any progress on their nuclear program.
Speaker 1: They they didn't destroy their ballistic missile programs, they didn't
Speaker 1: destroy the proxies.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we're in a situation where it it
Speaker 2: feels frustrating and unsatisfying because they don't care about getting
Speaker 2: caught in those lies by the mainstream press the way
Speaker 2: every other president in history has. But when you look
Speaker 2: at the polling, like this is the most popular war
Speaker 2: in modern American history, and it's going to get worse
Speaker 2: as gas price is ticked back up. And there's just
Speaker 2: no endgame here, like the Iranians want to control the
Speaker 2: straid of four moves. Trump can't let that happen. How
Speaker 2: do you sort that out?
Speaker 1: And you want to talk about the Houthies now and
Speaker 1: what they announced that there's a blockade of Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the Houthis. So back at twenty fifteen, the
Speaker 2: Saudi's launched this disastrous war on the Houthi rebels and Yemen.
Speaker 2: One hundreds of thousands people died because of it, mostly
Speaker 2: the famine. In twenty twenty two, they anounced the ceasefire
Speaker 2: and then some peace talks. So Ben and I were
Speaker 2: talking about last week this kind of fragile ceasefire kind
Speaker 2: of erupted because the Saudis bombed the Sanat Airport. I
Speaker 2: think they were trying to stop in Irgc plane from
Speaker 2: landing back in Yemen that had been at the Supreme
Speaker 2: Leader's funeral in Yemen. We were kind of like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's ominous, Like why are we kicking back up this conflict?
Speaker 2: And so today on Monday, the Houthi's announced that they're
Speaker 2: going to embargo Saudi ships in the Red Sea via
Speaker 2: the Babbel Mandeb Straight. So that's the choke point out
Speaker 2: of the Red Sea to the east where a lot
Speaker 2: of oil and gas flows. And so I don't know
Speaker 2: how this would work or how they would implement it,
Speaker 2: but if you have the Straight ofh hor Moves closed
Speaker 2: and then access to the Red Sea shut off, that
Speaker 2: chokes off like another five percent of the world's oil
Speaker 2: and reform petroleum products that pass through that straight. And
Speaker 2: so the saudis. The way the Saudi has been getting
Speaker 2: around the Straight of Horror Moves being shut is they
Speaker 2: have a pipeline that goes west and south and they've
Speaker 2: been pumping oil and gas out and getting it out
Speaker 2: through the Red Sea. If they can no longer do that,
Speaker 2: it's a huge reduction supply. At the same time, you
Speaker 2: have the Russians. Russian oil refinery capacity has been cut
Speaker 2: in half to the Ukrainian strikes. You have all the
Speaker 2: oil reserves depleted because of the war because we all
Speaker 2: just spent it down to try to keep cost slow.
Speaker 2: And then China had been limiting imports during the conflict.
Speaker 2: Now they're ramping them back up, so you could really
Speaker 2: see a serious supply shock in price increase, so one
Speaker 2: to watch. I mean, maybe the Huthis are not actually
Speaker 2: gonna go through with this, and they'll try to calm
Speaker 2: things down with the Saudis. But this is kind of
Speaker 2: like the nightmare scenario in terms of energy price.
Speaker 1: And oil went over ninety dollars a barrel briefly over
Speaker 1: the weekend. It's now in the eighties. But gas is
Speaker 1: up to four dollars a gallon again. And this is
Speaker 1: right at the beginning of this new phase of the war.
Speaker 3: And the who Theis don't have to completely control this
Speaker 3: waterway to create a bunch of fear and force ships
Speaker 3: to either delay, go around, raise the cost of insurance,
Speaker 3: what have you, right, And you know, having Iran and
Speaker 3: Iranian proxies in charge of these two choke points through
Speaker 3: a quarter or more of the world oil goes through
Speaker 3: is really sort of once again showing how much more
Speaker 3: powerful Iran has gotten because of this conflict. Even the
Speaker 3: language the who The's used was just basically, well, this
Speaker 3: is Trump is doing a blockade on a book blockade
Speaker 3: in the Strait of hormones. We're going to do a
Speaker 3: blockade on a blockade on this side too. That's just
Speaker 3: how it goes.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Republican, the Republican Congress has done absolutely nothing to
Speaker 1: rain him in on this. You have a few voted
Speaker 1: for like a War Powers resolution, and that's about it.
Speaker 1: And now how you know they have a week before
Speaker 1: they all go on break until mid September, and the
Speaker 1: House is trying to pass the NDAA. Also the supplemental
Speaker 1: exer like billions and billions and billions of dollars more,
Speaker 1: which is just absolutely fucking crazy nuts bills. So ICE
Speaker 1: is back in the news for all the wrong reasons
Speaker 1: after agent shot and killed one unarmed man in Houston,
Speaker 1: Texas and another in Bidterford, Maine. Both men were fathers
Speaker 1: and husbands who had been living and working in America
Speaker 1: for years, Both were driving at the time, and both
Speaker 1: were victims of mistaken identity by ICE. After the shooting
Speaker 1: in Maine, DHS Secretary Mark Wayne Mullen ordered a temporary
Speaker 1: pause on vehicle stops by ICE officers, a pause that
Speaker 1: Susan Collins quickly took credit for, which was then overturned
Speaker 1: by Trump in less than forty eight hours after an
Speaker 1: intense right wing backlash to Mullen, despite the fact that
Speaker 1: ICE has arrested a record number of people since Mullin's
Speaker 1: been confirmed, even hitting Stephen Miller's two thousand arrests per
Speaker 1: day quota a few times this month. This is, of course,
Speaker 1: thanks to the one and seventy billion dollars that Susan
Speaker 1: Collins and her fellow Republicans funneled to ICE, which seems
Speaker 1: to be giving badges and guns to anyone who wants them.
Speaker 1: The ex wife of the agent who killed the person
Speaker 1: in Maine told the AP that because her ex husband
Speaker 1: has a history of violent behavior and serious psychiatric issues,
Speaker 1: when he told her ICE had hired him quote, she
Speaker 1: thought he was having a mental health episode and didn't
Speaker 1: believe him. Jesus, this is the guy who killed person
Speaker 1: in Maine. And now, according to The New York Times,
Speaker 1: federal agents recently received a written notice that the FBI
Speaker 1: would quote no longer investigate confrontations with immigration agents, supposed
Speaker 1: to be handled now internally through DHS. This is a
Speaker 1: report that's been denied by both the Department of Justice
Speaker 1: and the Department of Homeland Security. So I feel like
Speaker 1: after Minnesota and Gnomes firing, we were all worried that
Speaker 1: nothing would actually get better, it would just get quieter.
Speaker 1: Sure enough, even Trump's approval and immigration has sort of
Speaker 1: crept back up, though it's still slightly underwater. What do
Speaker 1: you make of the administration response to the killings in Texas?
Speaker 3: And it made so yeah that Homan was going to
Speaker 3: be some kind of a step up from Bovino and
Speaker 3: from Christinome. The fear was they would continue doing what
Speaker 3: they were doing, but not as ostentatious. I do think
Speaker 3: like the fact that they determined that these sieges upon
Speaker 3: cities were counterproductive politically was a win that continued. But
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean they haven't been more competently and quietly aggressive,
Speaker 3: and they have continued to put people like this out
Speaker 3: into the field.
Speaker 2: We already know.
Speaker 3: They reduced the amount of time these people are trained,
Speaker 3: they lowered their standards, they've been desperate to recruit. So
Speaker 3: this is a direct result not just what the Trump
Speaker 3: administration is doing, but what Congress has done to fund
Speaker 3: and give them the resources to rapidly hire people who
Speaker 3: have no business using a gun, let alone using a
Speaker 3: gun as law enforcement as part of the federal government.
Speaker 3: You read about this guy's background before he's in Ice.
Speaker 3: This is just a fucking troubled guy, like a terrible
Speaker 3: head injury. He was doing door dash, he was doing correction,
Speaker 3: like he just was all.
Speaker 1: Violent towards his own kids. I thought that the blowback
Speaker 1: to Mullen was very telling too on the right because
Speaker 1: it kind of goes to the point that like, he's
Speaker 1: not running the department. Really, this is just like this
Speaker 1: is Miller's policies, and he tries to do something on
Speaker 1: his own depause and then Trump immediately just backs off. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I wonder if Mullen got a call from Susan Collins directly,
Speaker 2: because they're senate colleagues and they probably know each other.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean this ice officer and me, and
Speaker 2: he shot and killed a man in front of his
Speaker 2: three year old daughter. You know, it's fucking evil, and
Speaker 2: it shows that the policy has not changed much. But
Speaker 2: the pr strategy has. I mean Gnome and Bovino, like
Speaker 2: you said, like they were being pressured to make three
Speaker 2: thousand arrest a day, and they would to do that.
Speaker 2: They would have border patrol invade a city like an
Speaker 2: army and occupy it in the flashiest way possible. That
Speaker 2: included flying Blackhawk helicopters over Chicago or having like little
Speaker 2: social media people filming all the people stuff they were
Speaker 2: doing and then releasing it because they were proud of it.
Speaker 2: And Mullin is still trying to hit two thousand arrests
Speaker 2: a day, but the arrests are spread out all over
Speaker 2: the country, and he's less thirsty for press attention than
Speaker 2: Nome was, although probably doesn't want it. Low bar Ye
Speaker 2: DHS is still lying about all these incidents. They're de
Speaker 2: facto covering up for all these officers, but they're doing
Speaker 2: it in a slightly less gratuitous way. It's not like
Speaker 2: Minnesota where they're saying Rene Good and Alex Pretti were
Speaker 2: domestic terrorists or that you know, Preddie was trying to
Speaker 2: massacre police, right, that was the intention to massacre police
Speaker 2: was like the line afterwards. And so Trump, though, is
Speaker 2: still making it clear that he doesn't care if it
Speaker 2: isn't people are killed. He wants the dangerous practices like
Speaker 2: the vehicle stop arrest to continue if it means more deportations.
Speaker 2: So it is like they've definitely put a less flashy
Speaker 2: shine on their policies. But it is still very much
Speaker 2: the same dangerous, abusive practice.
Speaker 3: And that you can't give in to the libs, right
Speaker 3: like that, you can't. If something terrible happens and there's
Speaker 3: a call from your enemies to be restraint, to show
Speaker 3: any kind of restraint, you can't give into that because
Speaker 3: that is what led us here, right like, that's the problem.
Speaker 3: We have to prove a really tough Well.
Speaker 1: The Posts had a good story on this about the
Speaker 1: sort of the blowback to Mullen, and you know, it
Speaker 1: came from all the usual sort of right wing media
Speaker 1: online spaces, but also the Heritage Foundation. And there's people
Speaker 1: in the Heritage Foundation making the point that Tommy did,
Speaker 1: which is they're all saying, like, oh, Colin's probably called
Speaker 1: Mullen because there's Senate colleagues. And this is the problem
Speaker 1: with having someone at DAHS from the Senate, because you're
Speaker 1: trying to please all those people who are too moderate
Speaker 1: and we have to just put you know, foot on
Speaker 1: the gas for the deportation agenda, and it doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: it doesn't like, we're just going to keep going. And
Speaker 1: like Stephen Miller doesn't care if it's unpopular, he doesn't
Speaker 1: care if people get killed. He doesn't care if what
Speaker 1: the detention center conditions are or he doesn't care what.
Speaker 1: He just wants to do it. He just wants to
Speaker 1: get it done and thinks that he is like and
Speaker 1: the only thing that's going to stop him is tremendous
Speaker 1: public pressure like the kind we saw after Minneapolis, or
Speaker 1: Democrats win in Congress and being able to rain Trump
Speaker 1: in that way with the power of the purse.
Speaker 3: Well, look his immigran Trump's of immigration ratings. We're in
Speaker 3: the drop precipitously around the time of the killings in Minnesota.
Speaker 3: They have slowly ritually ticked back up. They're not above
Speaker 3: fifty and they're still you know, they're not we're as
Speaker 3: high as they once were. But the when the attention
Speaker 3: comes off of it, it kind of received, it kind
Speaker 3: of reverts to a mean and the baked insum, the
Speaker 3: baked in assumption. I think on their part is people
Speaker 3: know that even if he goes too far, he is
Speaker 3: strong on this issue. It is symbol of how he
Speaker 3: is strong as a president, right, Like, I think that
Speaker 3: is the deeper reason he can justify politically continue to
Speaker 3: do this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that because it's not in the news,
Speaker 1: and people don't are seeing the excesses of the deportation project,
Speaker 1: Trump's deportation project. It's like they want most people want
Speaker 1: border security, and unfortunately most people want like approve of
Speaker 1: the deportations in general. They just think that it's you know,
Speaker 1: when they don't see the excesses in the news, they think, well,
Speaker 1: they're deporting all the right people, right, They're reporting the
Speaker 1: violent criminals, and that's that, and they forget about what
Speaker 1: happened in Minnesota and stuff like that. And you've got
Speaker 1: to that's way. You just got to keep reminding people
Speaker 1: and my people, you know, coming out in Maine and
Speaker 1: Texas to protest. This is important to keep it in
Speaker 1: the news.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's also just like a fundamental problem in when
Speaker 3: there is a mass shooting and twelve people are killed
Speaker 3: in one place, that is national news. If there are
Speaker 3: twelve heinous murders committed by people who should not have
Speaker 3: access to guns, that does not get the same coverage
Speaker 3: because they are distributed, even though it is the same
Speaker 3: level of harm. And so yes, they are not wrong,
Speaker 3: right that, just people do not pay as much attention
Speaker 3: when these sort of injustices are distributed. And I know
Speaker 3: there's no good answer for that, other than continue to
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Speaker 1: cookie unity dot com slash crooked. One big question about
Speaker 1: the political impact is how this plays with Latino voters
Speaker 1: in the midterms and beyond. Our friend Carlos Odio at
Speaker 1: Eki's research always reminds us that the economy, not immigration,
Speaker 1: is still the top concern for Latino voters. In fact,
Speaker 1: their latest poll shows Trump's approval with Latino's has significantly
Speaker 1: decreased for the first time since last summer, mainly because
Speaker 1: his ratings on the economy and cost of living have collapsed.
Speaker 1: Dan talked with Carlos for this week Polar Coaster, which
Speaker 1: you can listen to if you're a Friend of the
Speaker 1: pod subscriber. If you're not, please consider joining at Crooked
Speaker 1: dot com slash friends so you can get subscriber only
Speaker 1: shows like Polar Cooaster, along with ad free versions of
Speaker 1: your favorite Crooked shows now, including Runaway Country with Alex Wagner.
Speaker 1: That said, Carlos and Ecki's also found that around two
Speaker 1: thirds of Latinos think Trump has gone too far on
Speaker 1: enforcement and deportation, and among Trump twenty twenty four voters
Speaker 1: who are Latino who regret their vote, immigration overreach was
Speaker 1: one of the top reasons cited. Would you guys make
Speaker 1: of all that polling in terms of how Democrats should
Speaker 1: handle this issue from now into the midterms.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think the takeaways are Trump's approvals down,
Speaker 2: many Latinos now regret voting for Trump, but Democratic approval
Speaker 2: is not necessarily up. So we need to treat Latina
Speaker 2: voters like their swing voters, which they are they have been.
Speaker 2: We're so way behind where we were with Latino voters
Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen, Carlos had a good message, which was
Speaker 2: basically like, don't scold people voting for Trump. You just
Speaker 2: say you werelied to. Trump promised you a bunch of
Speaker 2: stuff you didn't deliver. You're welcome back in the Democratic Party.
Speaker 2: I think that sounds exactly right. But I do think
Speaker 2: it's like the thing you hear from a lot of
Speaker 2: activist groups is that Democrats only show up in the
Speaker 2: last month of an election. It's all GOOTV messaging, turnout messaging.
Speaker 2: It's not persuasion messaging. It's not early enough. And I
Speaker 2: think that's like a lesson we need to learn this time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, get think on immigration specifically. I just think
Speaker 3: you can reflect what is true and also comes across
Speaker 3: in the polling. You know, Democrats I think really did
Speaker 3: have there. I spent for a long time had their
Speaker 3: heads in the sand around the difference between believing in
Speaker 3: immigration and opposing a lawless border. Right, Like there was
Speaker 3: just a difference, and uh there there was kind of
Speaker 3: a I think like treating people like they were pretty
Speaker 3: stupid about it. But now I don't think it's very
Speaker 3: hard to say, like, we believe in in uh, controlling
Speaker 3: the border, but you the they're terrorizing communities, they're terrorizing families.
Speaker 3: You can enforce our immigration laws in a way that
Speaker 3: is not cruel and capricious and violence and chaotic. And
Speaker 3: in the same way he has failed to, like because
Speaker 3: of his incompetence and chaos, like failed to address like
Speaker 3: the reason so many people gave him a chance. Cost
Speaker 3: of living is up, gases up, everything is up. He's
Speaker 3: focused on all the wrong things on immigration. We have
Speaker 3: seen so much chaos and so much violence, and none
Speaker 3: of it was necessary. He was elected to do to
Speaker 3: bring down the cost of living and bring some order
Speaker 3: to places where people felt as though like their they're
Speaker 3: wasn't enforcement at the border. Now it's time to have
Speaker 3: like responsible adults who are going to make good policy
Speaker 3: and do it in a way that reflects what people
Speaker 3: want out of their government without being so incompetent and cruel.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I thought the polling was interesting in that, you know,
Speaker 1: Latino voters, like most voters, they care about cost of
Speaker 1: living more than anything else. So that's like the lead message.
Speaker 1: But you know, sometimes it's framed as a choice between
Speaker 1: like do we talk about that or do we talk
Speaker 1: about what ICE is doing, and you know, Carlos and
Speaker 1: Ecki say that like Democrats should lift up the stories
Speaker 1: of the people who've been killed by ICE, but then
Speaker 1: makes the point not just their wrongful deaths, but also
Speaker 1: the stories of their families and contributions to their communities.
Speaker 1: The data shows that among Latinos who believe Trump's gone
Speaker 1: to foreign immigration, most say it's because of the impact
Speaker 1: as policies have had on families, children, US citizens and
Speaker 1: legal immigrants. So there is you know, the stories in
Speaker 1: the way that we would tell the stories anyway, is
Speaker 1: what Democrats should be doing. Speaking of the midterms, one
Speaker 1: Republican who should be especially vulnerable on her unqualified support
Speaker 1: for ICE is Susan Colin, who is now likely to
Speaker 1: face Democrat Troy Jackson in November. Jackson is Maine's former
Speaker 1: state Senate president who just lost the twenty twenty sixth
Speaker 1: primary for governor. He's also a fifth generation logger from
Speaker 1: about as far north and rural as Maine gets. It's
Speaker 1: on the border of Canada, where he's where Troy Jackson's from.
Speaker 1: Jackson won't officially be nominated to replace Graham Plattner until
Speaker 1: the party convention this weekend, but he ran the table
Speaker 1: at the county level meetings where delegates were chosen, to
Speaker 1: the point where all of his major competitors have now
Speaker 1: dropped out.
Speaker 3: So I pretend to be a dermatologist and I gave
Speaker 3: him a sort of head to toe mole check and
Speaker 3: he's clear, so no moles and nothing else. So I
Speaker 3: just I had to, you know, put on the statoscope,
Speaker 3: that whole thing, you know, he kept on his under
Speaker 3: I'm not a fucking maniac.
Speaker 1: Early thoughts on Troy Jackson, who's always been our favorite
Speaker 1: in this race we always thought would.
Speaker 2: Be the no thoughts on Troy Jackson. I'm to spend
Speaker 2: a little more time look at it. I have thoughts
Speaker 2: on huge credits of the main Democratic Party for throwing
Speaker 2: together a process this quickly. That must be like if
Speaker 2: Jackson gets it, hopefully that will go a long way
Speaker 2: towards bringing along the PLATINIR voters who are probably pretty
Speaker 2: pissed off and the volunteers who were left hanging when
Speaker 2: he withdrew. We're still in a tough spot. We see
Speaker 2: he's you know, the platter left us a mess that
Speaker 2: we're behind, a fundraising we're behind in name I d
Speaker 2: hopefully now this can become a referendum on Donald Trump
Speaker 2: and how voting for Susan Collins is a vote for
Speaker 2: the Donald Trump agenda.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it seems like he's already moving towards that
Speaker 1: talking all about Susan Collins, and it's what could have
Speaker 1: been a very contentious couple of weeks here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they figured it out.
Speaker 1: They figured it out. Like credit to the main Democratic Party,
Speaker 1: Credit to all of Trey Jackson's challengers too, who like,
Speaker 1: instead of hanging into the convention of all dropped out
Speaker 1: and Orrell supporting him now, which is great. Just so
Speaker 1: people know who Drey Jackson is. He so he was
Speaker 1: state Senate president. He was re elected in last in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two and one of the reddest reddest parts
Speaker 1: of Maine. I looked up there in the first district,
Speaker 1: the state Senate district registration there is thirty six percent Republican,
Speaker 1: nineteen percent Democrat, forty five percent no party preference. Okay,
Speaker 1: so that is independent. That is an achievement winning that district.
Speaker 1: Internal polls, there's only been a few internal polls with
Speaker 1: him and Collins. They have him tied or slightly ahead.
Speaker 1: So it's too early for that he's got pretty much
Speaker 1: all of Graham Platner's positions.
Speaker 3: He doesn't maybe well some of his older positions sort
Speaker 3: of just more recent political ones. I'd say probably, yes,
Speaker 3: political positions, political positions, maybe maybe not as maybe not
Speaker 3: quite as charismatic as as you know, he's.
Speaker 1: A little he's a little little gruffer. Yeah, What'll came
Speaker 1: in third for governor and used to be very conservative
Speaker 1: on abortion and gay rights, and over the years is
Speaker 1: now now it gets like one hundred percent ratings from
Speaker 1: abortion and gay rights groups. Right, so he sort of
Speaker 1: changed over time.
Speaker 2: I realized our process is not ideal. But in South
Speaker 2: Carolina Republicans are like, hey, Linday Graham, you're dead. What
Speaker 2: if your sister just sticks over? Hey that's weird.
Speaker 3: Hey we're in the market for Linda Graham in a wig.
Speaker 2: So weird just handing a senancey to Lindsay Graham's sister.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there so there hasn't been a lot of
Speaker 1: like you didn't give us a process. Why did you
Speaker 1: give us just this guy? I think for Troy Jackson,
Speaker 1: it's like it's name I d right, Like people don't
Speaker 1: know I don't I think even people in Maine, right
Speaker 1: like you're the state Senate. Does anyone know the state
Speaker 1: Senate president doesn't even know that nobody. I don't even
Speaker 1: know who the how the legislature is here in an
Speaker 1: assembly is in California. Do you guys going to be
Speaker 1: very complicated.
Speaker 2: I'm not doing pop quizzes today, just so folks. No,
Speaker 2: it's not just that Lindsay Graham's sister is finishing out
Speaker 2: the seat. She's announcing she is going to run for it.
Speaker 3: I know, and I just want to be clear. We
Speaker 3: don't know. You know, maybe she has great and interest
Speaker 3: like she works with the blind. I don't know, got it,
Speaker 3: there's a chance. Let's just let's just be cool. We
Speaker 3: love We always thought Lindsay Graham's sister was a reasonable
Speaker 3: person who could have a conversation with Let's give her
Speaker 3: a chance before she could discover that she makes Lauren
Speaker 3: Bilbert look like Hakeem Jeffries.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Nancy Mace has dropped out of that race. Won't
Speaker 1: be running now. She continued to ship post. She literally
Speaker 1: said that that's great.
Speaker 3: She posted. Just when I thought I was out, they
Speaker 3: pulled me back in from Godfather Part three. Never like
Speaker 3: the least requested person ever, being.
Speaker 2: Like, fine, I'll do it. They being yourself qulty backing
Speaker 2: the voices.
Speaker 1: Turns out Maine isn't the only speed bump on the
Speaker 1: road to a blue wave. The wi was constant gubernatorial
Speaker 1: primary just got a little jolt over the weekend when
Speaker 1: Lieutenant Governor Sarah Rodriguez ended her campaign after revealing serious
Speaker 1: financial mismanagement by her campaign manager. She was one of
Speaker 1: the leading candidates in the polls. Her dropping outside off
Speaker 1: a panic among the state's more moderate and establishment Democrats,
Speaker 1: who are worried that Francesca hung the dsay back to
Speaker 1: candidate who's leading in the polls won't be able to
Speaker 1: win in November. So, even though former Lieutenant governor and
Speaker 1: Senate candidate Mandela Barnes is still close to hang in
Speaker 1: the polls, Wisconsin Democrats convinced Milwaukee County Executive David Crowley,
Speaker 1: who'd ended his own campaign a week earlier, to get
Speaker 1: back in the race, and then Governor Tony Evers, who
Speaker 1: had been staying out of the primary, endorsed Crowley. Seems
Speaker 1: like they got everything under control up there in Wisconsin.
Speaker 3: Huh, I Like, I keyed into this because when I
Speaker 3: saw the Sarah Rodrigue's press conference video. Yeah, and I
Speaker 3: was like, watching this video and I really hadn't been
Speaker 3: paying close attention to this primary, to be honest. But
Speaker 3: then I watched the video and just someone at the
Speaker 3: putt of being like, here's when I found out we
Speaker 3: were being robbed. Here's when I found out there was
Speaker 3: not enough money here and there. Then I realized there
Speaker 3: was a problem over here, and I was like, oh boy.
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess it's good to get ahead of this,
Speaker 3: but I don't know how you can win a campaign
Speaker 3: for governor when you're just getting when your finances are
Speaker 3: so fucked.
Speaker 2: I still feel like I'm missing something. In the Sarah
Speaker 2: Rodriga story, the campaign manager double counted donations so they
Speaker 2: had less money than expected. Then that same staff er
Speaker 2: puts out a press release that's like we're doing a
Speaker 2: million dollar ad buy. The candidate is like, hey, where's
Speaker 2: our ads? I don't ever see them on TV. Turns
Speaker 2: out the ad buy was fake because again they didn't
Speaker 2: have the money. They put out their filing and she
Speaker 2: has like thirty five grand on hand. Yeah, so that's
Speaker 2: obviously bad, But do you have to drop out for
Speaker 2: that well, Like, I mean, you couldn't have stuck it out.
Speaker 3: I just think that you're running to be the chief
Speaker 3: something else.
Speaker 2: I get the argument like an incompetent you can't manage
Speaker 2: your own campaign, can't manage your own finances. But it's like,
Speaker 2: I don't know. The primary is August eleventh, Like I
Speaker 2: feel like there must be more we're gonna learn.
Speaker 3: And by the way, like when I say Rob, I
Speaker 3: have no idea, it just sounded like someone at least
Speaker 3: insinuating that money was going right out the door illicitly.
Speaker 1: Anyway, She's gone, man, bar memory be a los thing.
Speaker 1: This is an important race. Don't want a Republican as
Speaker 1: governor in Wisconsin in twenty twenty eight when there will
Speaker 1: be a presidential election to certify, and so really important
Speaker 1: that we replace Tony Eves with the Democrat. I'm kind
Speaker 1: of confused why they didn't rally around Mandela Barnes. So
Speaker 1: Mandela Barnes, who we known Mandela for a while. He
Speaker 1: also ran in twenty twenty two for Senate. He came
Speaker 1: like twenty six votes shy of winning in a year
Speaker 1: where it was a twenty twenty two many terms, it
Speaker 1: was a more Republican leaning year, and he's close to
Speaker 1: hang in all the polls. He's probably like ahead of
Speaker 1: Rodriguez in some polls. Several polls show him ahead of
Speaker 1: the Republican candidate, Representative Tom Tiffany, and Crowley, who I
Speaker 1: don't know much about David Crowley, but when he suspended
Speaker 1: his campaign, he never got more than five percent of
Speaker 1: the vote, And I mean in any of the polls
Speaker 1: he never hit beyond five percent, and so and then
Speaker 1: somehow Evers went out and endorsed him and not Barnes.
Speaker 3: I don't understand it either, other than he lost before
Speaker 3: they could use that same planet book again. If he
Speaker 3: lost to Ron Johnson, he's going to lose again. It's
Speaker 3: almost confusing.
Speaker 1: Like twenty percent of primary voters have already cast their ballots.
Speaker 1: It's almost impossible that David Crowley is going to win this.
Speaker 1: What him getting back into the race may do is
Speaker 1: a sure that Hong is going to win.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean all the whispering in those articles is
Speaker 2: they think Bendela Barne it's basically just as progressive as
Speaker 2: Hong and therefore will have all the same problems. I
Speaker 2: think they're all kind of whispering about bad polling. I
Speaker 2: have no idea if that's true. But that's when like
Speaker 2: Politico reports on this and stuff. Yeah, the strategy is baffling.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like it's but it's it's so funny because
Speaker 1: it's it's one thing to think Barnes is also too progressive,
Speaker 1: just like Hong, and so Crowley would be the most
Speaker 1: electable candidate. Like I get bad argument is that I
Speaker 1: might not agree with it, but I get it as
Speaker 1: a legitimate argument. But then saying, okay, so we'll put
Speaker 1: him in the primary with two weeks left. He never
Speaker 1: hit five percent, and somehow he'll vault ahead of the
Speaker 1: other two candidates.
Speaker 2: They're just hoping that the Tony Evers endorsement will do it,
Speaker 2: it seems.
Speaker 3: But also to be yeah, even with like there has
Speaker 3: been a lot of great polling, but also the poets
Speaker 3: had them all pretty low too, so like maybe they're
Speaker 3: hoping there's just a lot of people that have made
Speaker 3: up their minds are getting late. Yeah. The other also
Speaker 3: just to say, like Barnes was a lieutenant governor of
Speaker 3: the state. It's not like coming from nowhere, right, Like.
Speaker 1: I'll just say this, like if Hong wins the primary
Speaker 1: and loses the general. It is not This is not
Speaker 1: like let's blame DSA. This is the establishment decided to
Speaker 1: put in someone else potentially split the vote with Barnes,
Speaker 1: and that's where we ended up where we did.
Speaker 2: After Sarah Rodriguez had to enter camp, circumsplame outcoming, I
Speaker 2: think everyone Wisconsin was just like Jesus Christ, what do
Speaker 2: we do right? Scrambling right?
Speaker 1: But that's what But I'm saying that the Crowley thing
Speaker 1: is the weird part. It's not like no one could
Speaker 1: have seen the Sarah Rigaz think coming. But the Crowley
Speaker 1: thing is just a it's a weird thing to do.
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Speaker 1: All right, let's end with Michigan, where there's a very
Speaker 1: chill congenial Senate primary between former Cricket host Abdul Lsaed,
Speaker 1: who the three of us are supporting, and Congresswoman Haley Stevens,
Speaker 1: who were hoping to have on the show as soon
Speaker 1: as she can make it work. The polling is relatively
Speaker 1: sparse and a bit all over the place, In a
Speaker 1: race where the biggest issue dividing the candidates is Israel,
Speaker 1: Abdul wants to end all US eight to is. Stevens
Speaker 1: does not, and has the support of APAC, who's spending
Speaker 1: heavily in this race. Abdullah is also in favor of
Speaker 1: more progressive policies like abolishing ice and medicare for all,
Speaker 1: which is one reason he's been endorsed by AOC and
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders, who are in the state this weekend campaigning
Speaker 1: with him. Here's a clip from one event.
Speaker 3: They want us to think that these forces are too
Speaker 3: powerful for us to overcome, that this is just how
Speaker 3: things are.
Speaker 4: There's fifty million dollars in this race because they're expecting
Speaker 4: a return.
Speaker 1: It's an investment.
Speaker 8: They've taken the calling to me dangerous. Now, I don't
Speaker 8: know why you would call somebody who looks like me
Speaker 8: with a name like mine dangerous.
Speaker 9: If you're a corporation wanting to buy a politician with
Speaker 9: their pack, I'm dangerous. If you're a pak and want
Speaker 9: to send our money abroad, you damn well better believe
Speaker 9: I'm dangerous.
Speaker 8: If you're somebody who wants it's the government to work
Speaker 8: for you, I'm not dangerous. I might just be the
Speaker 8: one person running for US Senate who actually wants.
Speaker 2: To serve you.
Speaker 1: Thoughts on one of the last and maybe most contentious
Speaker 1: Democratic primary of the year.
Speaker 2: I mean, I hate that this has gotten jammed into
Speaker 2: the Graham Platner discourse frame, at least on social media,
Speaker 2: because like a Duel and Grand Platiner are absolutely nothing
Speaker 2: alike in Anyone suggesting otherwise is trying to smear ab
Speaker 2: duel in a really disgusting way. And just clock that
Speaker 2: when you read these tweets and judge them accordingly. Some
Speaker 2: of the issues in the race are nationalized, Like there
Speaker 2: is frustration at the establishment and Chuck Schumer for picking candidates.
Speaker 2: That's part of the race. There's gaza, there's apex spending.
Speaker 2: But if you watch the debates or watch them on
Speaker 2: the stump, it is very local. It's a lot of
Speaker 2: auto industry talk. There's a lot of anger at shitty
Speaker 2: utility companies. Everyone in the in the race made a
Speaker 2: video about a bridge from Detroit to Canada that Trump
Speaker 2: was shutting down. They're talking about healthcare premium. So look,
Speaker 2: I'm supporting a duel because I can say I'm a
Speaker 2: friend I think he's really smart. I think he's going
Speaker 2: on the stump. He's taken principled positions on stuff I
Speaker 2: really care about. I think you'd be a good senator.
Speaker 2: It's like, it's no deeper than that. I'm not a
Speaker 2: Hailey Stevens hater in any way, shape or form. If
Speaker 2: she wins the primary, like I will wholeheartedly support her
Speaker 2: no matter who wins. This is going to be a
Speaker 2: really tough race. Like Mike Rogers is a good, strong
Speaker 2: Republican opponent. We barely beat him last time. So I
Speaker 2: think what's most important is whatever happens come August fifth,
Speaker 2: Like everybody's got to put down the little twitter knives,
Speaker 2: stop nursing your little grudges, making this about some bigger thing,
Speaker 2: some factional intra party thing, and let's come together and
Speaker 2: win this race. And we got to do a little
Speaker 2: faster than people have been doing it up in Maine
Speaker 2: because there's a lot of lingering bullshit happening.
Speaker 3: You know, there's a debate about Medicare for all, which
Speaker 3: is largely a symbolic debate. Even if you support medicare
Speaker 3: for all, the next Democratic Congress, if we're so lucky
Speaker 3: to have a Democratic Congress, we'll have Trump as president.
Speaker 3: Like there's no hope of passing medicare for all, but
Speaker 3: it is a symbol of a willingness to like go bigger,
Speaker 3: go against the establishment, be willing to say something that
Speaker 3: may not be as popular broadly but shows that you're
Speaker 3: willing to fight. Now, you know what Aos says. They're like, oh,
Speaker 3: they're they're they're they're buying, they're buying the sea. Like
Speaker 3: it's pretty clear, Like Hailey Stevens has said she will
Speaker 3: support military aid and aid to Israel abduable, not right.
Speaker 3: They're investing to get behind a candidate who will support
Speaker 3: continuing to give military aid to Israel. Other then but
Speaker 3: like that is a symbol of what happens if either
Speaker 3: one of them is in the Senate and put the
Speaker 3: like big kind of ideological distinctions between them a side.
Speaker 3: Hailey Stevens is a reliable Democratic vote. She doesn't have
Speaker 3: a particularly strong, like ideological point of view. You go
Speaker 3: to her website, it's a lot of nuts and bolts,
Speaker 3: bring money home to Michigan policies. She supports a public option,
Speaker 3: she supports reforming ice. She's just a reliable Democratic vote.
Speaker 3: Abdul is someone who will push on the party from
Speaker 3: the left. That is what he would do in the Senate. Now,
Speaker 3: I think that's a good thing. I think it's good
Speaker 3: to have like people that have a strong point of
Speaker 3: view and want the Democratic Party to stand for something
Speaker 3: clear right. But in the end, either way, like neither
Speaker 3: one of them is going to be able to enact
Speaker 3: any kind of specific agenda. It's a question of what
Speaker 3: you want in a what do you believe a Democratic
Speaker 3: Senate should look like, which why it becomes a proxy
Speaker 3: between Bernie and Schumer and all the rest.
Speaker 1: I do think with a Senate race, because you're there
Speaker 1: for six years, Ideally this person is there for a
Speaker 1: Democratic president and a Democratic Congress, and then hopefully the
Speaker 1: next Democratic president does make a move to expand healthcare.
Speaker 1: Who knows how far they'll be able to go, but
Speaker 1: ideally and so you know, they will get to do
Speaker 1: they will get to set the agenda hopefully in some ways.
Speaker 1: But I think but to your point, I mean, this
Speaker 1: always happens with primaries, right, which is because the candidates
Speaker 1: are generally similar on their policy platforms, you try to
Speaker 1: find differences that then become magnified in the heat of
Speaker 1: a race that then make it seem like it is
Speaker 1: this Manichean struggle between good and evil for the supporters
Speaker 1: on either side. And look, I think in this one,
Speaker 1: you're right, Israel is a clear dividing line that is
Speaker 1: where their pulse. I mean, she supports aid to Israel
Speaker 1: with no conditions whatsoever, and he wants to cut it off.
Speaker 1: And even some of the other races where Apec has played,
Speaker 1: and I think the difference hasn't been so.
Speaker 3: Clear, or she's on the right edge of a dwindling
Speaker 3: minority of Democrats who are taking that position. Even in
Speaker 3: the Senate, I mean, the majority of the vastarty of
Speaker 3: Democratic senators are closer to a Gules position now than
Speaker 3: they are to.
Speaker 1: Hailey Stevens right. And so then the other thing you
Speaker 1: would do is you'd make it about electability. And I
Speaker 1: do think it's been hard to make this race about
Speaker 1: electability grounded in a lot of firm data, because look
Speaker 1: at the polls that we've had have been from not
Speaker 1: really high quality polsters. There's been a lot of internal
Speaker 1: polling from both sides. We don't have like a New
Speaker 1: York Times Siena poll or a lot of really good
Speaker 1: pulling and so and in the polling that we have,
Speaker 1: you know, at the beginning of the race, it seemed
Speaker 1: like Stevens was performed slightly better against Mike Rodgers than
Speaker 1: a duel. Now it seems like a duel has like
Speaker 1: a point or two honor or they're tied. So it's
Speaker 1: really hard to make an electability argument. So therefore now
Speaker 1: you're just fighting over.
Speaker 2: What they're really fighting about is like they're they're hand
Speaker 2: waving at the policy ship, but they're like, his name's
Speaker 2: Abdul alsiety. That is what is happening. It is I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm not saying Hayley Stevens specifically is saying that, but
Speaker 2: a lot of Abdul's opponents are when they say electability,
Speaker 2: that is what they mean.
Speaker 1: And that is what has gotten a little ugly well
Speaker 1: into your earlier point. And now they're doing the well,
Speaker 1: he's got some of the same consultants, and so Graham
Speaker 1: Platner wasn't vetted and we don't want another. And it's
Speaker 1: like Abduel has been vetted because he ran for governor
Speaker 1: of Michigan and that's why his name idea is so
Speaker 1: high in the first place. And he's been like, you know,
Speaker 1: he's just he's.
Speaker 2: He's served in public office. Wasn't like plucked out of obscurity.
Speaker 3: And the big controversy was about whether or not after
Speaker 3: he got his mdphd he technically did a residency. It's like,
Speaker 3: that's like it's very different than a Nazi tattoo and
Speaker 3: a sexual assault ouvasion.
Speaker 1: But it like both candidates, now I've seen them in
Speaker 1: interviews be like, well, this race isn't really about Israel,
Speaker 1: and everyone else wants to make it about Israel and Gaza,
Speaker 1: but we want to make it about Michigan. But even there,
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of like there's not a fight
Speaker 1: about healthcare, like you're for Medicare for all and from
Speaker 1: the public option, let's let's duke it out. You're for
Speaker 1: abolishing ice, on for reforming ice, let's do it on that.
Speaker 1: It's there's there's surprisingly little attacks from both of the supporters,
Speaker 1: at least on the policy issues and more on it's.
Speaker 2: More like it's more like money driven policy issues. It's
Speaker 2: like you've taken all this money from corporations for eightpack
Speaker 2: or others, therefore you're beholden to them. That is kind
Speaker 2: of the proxy for a lot of the political fights
Speaker 2: and then but for Haley, it's like there's a similarly
Speaker 2: weird thing happening online with her, which is like a
Speaker 2: lot of people are plucking up speeches where they think
Speaker 2: she looks goofy and sharing them and then it turns
Speaker 2: out maybe people like those speeches.
Speaker 1: We don't really know.
Speaker 3: Well, I I was into like there, Like there's moments
Speaker 3: where she's kind of fee and like kind of she's
Speaker 3: got we gotta letter rip, we got to stick it
Speaker 3: to them, and like it's kind of sweet, and uh,
Speaker 3: there's this kind of aesthetics where if someone who has
Speaker 3: seen as centrist or pro Israel does something that is
Speaker 3: slightly cringe that or having Malary mcmurrow too, when she
Speaker 3: was in the kind of Elizabeth Warren roll to Abduel
Speaker 3: and they were mad at her, like this is so embarrassing.
Speaker 3: You're so embarrassing. It's cringe, Like this is the problem,
Speaker 3: this is the problem. You don't understand real people because
Speaker 3: you don't understand what broken brained online people think is
Speaker 3: funny anymore. But if Abdul has made plenty of cringey
Speaker 3: content and but he's you know, he's good for the movement,
Speaker 3: and so those things aren't as bad. I was thinking
Speaker 3: about when I'm like, Schumer farted on the Senate floor,
Speaker 3: and I do think he did not make the most
Speaker 3: of it. I think he should have done it at
Speaker 3: about how we were having a gas crisis. He went
Speaker 3: up to the man that Schumer used to be, the
Speaker 3: guy at the gas station, and there was a moment
Speaker 3: where he could have made news about it.
Speaker 1: Sorry, it was just unblock on the straight upfore most
Speaker 1: exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: Look not the only not the only waterway. They were
Speaker 3: having trouble getting things through these days. That my age,
Speaker 3: but so but but I know, but if like mom,
Speaker 3: Donnie farted during press conference, there would be stories about how,
Speaker 3: like man, everybody's farting again.
Speaker 2: He's so good at this. This is a master at
Speaker 2: work generation.
Speaker 3: This is why we need medicare for all, he'd say,
Speaker 3: or something I don't know, because.
Speaker 1: Because there's a lot of it because of stick it
Speaker 1: to him, there's a.
Speaker 2: Stick it to him.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, it's like, Okay, you want
Speaker 3: to be this sort of like hard scrabble kind of
Speaker 3: salt of the earth campaigner, but also your campaign is
Speaker 3: propped up by tens of millions of dollars of outside money.
Speaker 3: And John to your point, like one of the reasons
Speaker 3: that debait is about that outside money and about Israel
Speaker 3: is because she has an establishment figure, doesn't have like
Speaker 3: a clear other than just bringing money home for vision,
Speaker 3: they'll auto bail it. Like, what's the policy place where
Speaker 3: she feels so strongly she wants to pick a fight
Speaker 3: with a.
Speaker 1: Duel over Well, this is this is yes, And I
Speaker 1: know this is naive of me, but like, as we
Speaker 1: head into a presidential primary season, like my wish is
Speaker 1: that the the factional war within the Democratic Party is
Speaker 1: fought over different policy positions because there are plenty of
Speaker 1: differences between the left and the center left. And I
Speaker 1: think sometimes what the establishment center left, whatever you want
Speaker 1: to call them more modern Democrats does is they look
Speaker 1: at the progressive movement and progressive candidates and they either
Speaker 1: take umbrage or dismiss them or say or just like attack, attack, attack,
Speaker 1: And it's like try to you got to be for something, Yes,
Speaker 1: you got to be excited about your candidates, and you
Speaker 1: got to run candidates who are exciting and charismatic and
Speaker 1: have something that they really want to get downe but
Speaker 1: what they default to. And you can kind of hear
Speaker 1: this with and I'm not saying Steven's does this, but
Speaker 1: some of her supporters it was like, but she works
Speaker 1: so hard, and she's just she's got her head down
Speaker 1: and she works hard. And that's like the thing for
Speaker 1: all the establishment candidates is like they just their servant,
Speaker 1: their public servants, and they're working hard. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: everyone's everyone in public life who's running for office is
Speaker 1: working hard and doing a lot of good.
Speaker 2: So she's sort of a throwback, sort of a throwback campaign,
Speaker 2: like there was a not that long ago most campaigns
Speaker 2: were like I'm gonna liver for my state. I'm going
Speaker 2: to bring home the bacon, I'm gonna get earmarks and
Speaker 2: pork barrel and just like build a fucking airport over here.
Speaker 1: And you know what, if Susan Collins wins, that's why.
Speaker 2: And it's Haley like it sounds like that's the kind
Speaker 2: of campion she's running now. Somewhere along the way I work,
Speaker 2: we found this desire where we also want people to
Speaker 2: be national figures and have national profiles and see value
Speaker 2: in that too. There's a bit of a race here
Speaker 2: on the on the the goofy content thing, Like Abdul
Speaker 2: has put out videos that were so cringey that I
Speaker 2: sent them to his consultants and I said, no more
Speaker 2: of this.
Speaker 3: I bet right, was he in a hat?
Speaker 2: I don't remember which one it was, It might have
Speaker 2: been more than one, but like, he's put out a
Speaker 2: lot of corny shit.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: I think there are people rightly pointing out that I
Speaker 2: think Haley is treated differently because she is a woman.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of misogyny and sexism in the messaging
Speaker 2: you'll see on Twitter about these videos. They're also just
Speaker 2: kind of cringey videos at times, and like sometimes she's
Speaker 2: a goofy messenger and sometimes he's a goofy fucking messenger,
Speaker 2: and it's not always loaded to say that too. Like
Speaker 2: that's the other part of this, well, that this is
Speaker 2: where like.
Speaker 1: The attention economy has made people do crazy things.
Speaker 3: Yes, Like there's a whole range of issues that are
Speaker 3: just not really that much a part of the demo.
Speaker 3: Activate education one of the most important issues where Democrats
Speaker 3: have lost ground for the last ten years yep or
Speaker 3: five years, early six years. And like I'll say something
Speaker 3: that would like this is one of the reasons why
Speaker 3: if rom runs for president, like, it will be good
Speaker 3: because he will be the person that picks.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 1: It will be good.
Speaker 3: It will be it will be because send it he will,
Speaker 3: for he will, he will. He will have that kind
Speaker 3: of old school democratic politics where he like he.
Speaker 1: Starts now starring on.
Speaker 3: Gets back on survivor to fuck because he will force
Speaker 3: debates about these questions on his road to not being
Speaker 3: the nominee and like on a broad range of issues.
Speaker 3: That will like kind of like in the way that
Speaker 3: Hailey Stemens is not causing, not kind of forcing questions
Speaker 3: back over to a duel on policy questions. I think
Speaker 3: you need center left figures who do that because we
Speaker 3: need to have those big debates. That's all.
Speaker 2: Well, Haley's big attack on abdul and the debate was
Speaker 2: like you haven't released your tax returns yet, and I
Speaker 2: just wonder it was another kind of like it' felt
Speaker 2: like an old school criticism of someone.
Speaker 1: Well, it feels like he's attacking her on money, right,
Speaker 1: like you've got all this money down your rehap. So
Speaker 1: she's like, I want to do money things.
Speaker 2: It's not like lejgitimate. I'm just wondering if voters care.
Speaker 1: I can't, don't. I don't know who. You'll find out
Speaker 1: who knows. Speaking of Bernie, CNN reporter over the weekend,
Speaker 1: that back in March, when he backed a challenger to
Speaker 1: a Democratic House in company in North Carolina, Hakeem Jeffries
Speaker 1: called him and warned him against meddling in house primaries,
Speaker 1: arguing that it's divisive and a drain on limited resources
Speaker 1: that could go to beating Republicans. Another member who was
Speaker 1: on the call said, Sanders quote seemed not to care
Speaker 1: you guys, like it seems absolutely buy that.
Speaker 3: The most Jolene phone call, like please please you could,
Speaker 3: I know you can take these districts. Please stop, please stop.
Speaker 3: He's my man.
Speaker 2: It's like I get my hockeying. Jeffries would not want
Speaker 2: divisive primaries. I can't imagine any scenario where he thought
Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders would care. I can't. It's hard to imagine
Speaker 2: a conversation Bernie Sanders would care about less.
Speaker 3: Other than the debate. The interview I had with him
Speaker 3: where he tried to get out of it a few
Speaker 3: minutes early, where he did this this is.
Speaker 1: This is this is another problem with like the establish
Speaker 1: from argument is it's the response is always like no, no, no,
Speaker 1: these primaries shouldn't happen, or these candidate like guess what
Speaker 1: the candidates are going to run. People are going to
Speaker 1: sign up and they're going to run for office, and
Speaker 1: they're going to be from all political persuasions and doing
Speaker 1: the whole And Hillary started this in twenty sixteen with
Speaker 1: Bernie Right, it's like that they're not real Democrats and
Speaker 1: they're and they're not they don't respect the Democratic Party's institutions,
Speaker 1: like you know who doesn't respect the Democratic Party's institution America.
Speaker 3: Or actually and more specifically Democrats exactly.
Speaker 1: So it's like not the greatest argument to be like
Speaker 1: how dare you run? And how dare you upset our primaries?
Speaker 1: It's like go beat them, beat them with better ideas,
Speaker 1: beat them by saying that like their ideas are bad
Speaker 1: or their or their ideas aren't going to resonate with
Speaker 1: most American people, Like there's plenty to go after. Before
Speaker 1: he was just being like don't run.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a you know, these are people trying to
Speaker 3: do a hostile takeover of a failing enterprise. You know,
Speaker 3: if you think they're not the right people to lead,
Speaker 3: you got to make a much better case to the
Speaker 3: shareholders because they're looking at your record and thinking, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna kind of take a shot on these people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll also look at the Republican Party. Did that
Speaker 1: work really well for them? For all the establishment figures
Speaker 1: in the Republican Party when they were like, no, Donald
Speaker 1: Trump can't be it right.
Speaker 2: Good point. And also they're facing their own version of this,
Speaker 2: Like in Arizona, Andy Biggs is probably going to be
Speaker 2: the Republican gubernatorial nominee. He's a lunatic in Iowa. My
Speaker 2: buddy Rob sand is up against this complete unknown dude
Speaker 2: whose primary work background was like working for the Koch
Speaker 2: brothers for a decade. He doesn't even live in the state.
Speaker 2: He's in Iowa half the time. He's in Kansas, Colorado.
Speaker 3: Guy, that's like, Yeah, when I was a kid, I
Speaker 3: kill people?
Speaker 1: What of it?
Speaker 3: What of it?
Speaker 2: We all do it? Wait?
Speaker 3: What go back?
Speaker 2: That's one of the all time interviews. So I killed someone?
Speaker 2: What of it? Yeah? Yeah, No, they've nominated this lunatic
Speaker 2: in Iowa who wants to like ban the mRNA vaccine.
Speaker 2: He wants COVID vaccines off the shelf. More from Me
Speaker 2: Marxist hijacked the curriculum in Iowa. There's a decade of
Speaker 2: Republican rule, but they're not backing away from him. The
Speaker 2: RGA is going to put tens of millions of dollars
Speaker 2: on air behind this guy.
Speaker 1: So's anyway, Yeah, well, like you said, I think it's
Speaker 1: going to be a bumpy couple weeks in these primaries,
Speaker 1: but once August comes and goes, we're all behind the nominee,
Speaker 1: whoever it may be. Did you see that On the
Speaker 1: sidelines of one of the events with a dual Politico
Speaker 1: asked AOC about running for president, and she said, I
Speaker 1: can't say that I've ruled it out. She also talked
Speaker 1: about her own definition of what big tent means, general
Speaker 1: thoughts on how she's preparing for the possibility of a
Speaker 1: run in twenty eight we've talked so much about elections
Speaker 1: that are happening November, we get a little treat to
Speaker 1: talk just a tiny bit of speculation before we end
Speaker 1: the pod.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a little bit of like a there's like
Speaker 3: an Axio story about like about AOC embracing kind of
Speaker 3: Obama style hope and change, a sort of some as
Speaker 3: like evidence of her shift in preparation for running, and
Speaker 3: I don't really think it like reflects a like if
Speaker 3: you go. I think AOC has evolved as a public figure,
Speaker 3: and I think she has learned a lot since she's
Speaker 3: been in Congress. But I think part of what her
Speaker 3: appeal has always been is that you know she's there's
Speaker 3: some she's asked and she says, I don't. It's something like,
Speaker 3: I don't come from a I come from a working
Speaker 3: class family. I didn't come from a militant leftist family,
Speaker 3: right like Isaac. That's just right, like this reading the
Speaker 3: stage directions a little bit. But her appeal has always
Speaker 3: been that she hasn't sounded like what Republicans want her
Speaker 3: to sound like. She sounded so much more optimistic and hopeful.
Speaker 3: And she's also, by the way, said something similar about
Speaker 3: not ruling out like I think a month ago, like
Speaker 3: this is going to be something that keeps happening. But
Speaker 3: whether she runs for Senate or president or neither, like
Speaker 3: she's going to use the power she has, and she
Speaker 3: is I think a more important and attention worthy figure
Speaker 3: as long as the possibility of earning for presidents out there, the.
Speaker 2: Single best way to get media coverage is to suggest
Speaker 2: that you're going to run for president. She's smart, she
Speaker 2: knows that this will get her attention for her ideas.
Speaker 2: I don't know if she's going to run or not.
Speaker 2: It feels like she might. I like, the the only
Speaker 2: size tent we are allowed to have is circus. Our
Speaker 2: tent has got to be gigantic at this point. We
Speaker 2: need to fit a lot of people underneath this thing.
Speaker 2: So I'm glad she's saying that. I will say that.
Speaker 1: She if if I were her and I were thinking
Speaker 1: of running for president, she is, And she's probably being
Speaker 1: told and knows herself because she's very, very smart that, like,
Speaker 1: you know, her risk is that she's seen as too
Speaker 1: left and too extreme, and she's seen all the polling data.
Speaker 1: I'm sure. And if you're going to run for president
Speaker 1: and you at least want to prepare for the possibility
Speaker 1: that you might, I think she's doing all the right
Speaker 1: things that you would do, which is that it made
Speaker 1: me less than her answers right about like are you
Speaker 1: running or not? Like the way that she's endorsing or
Speaker 1: not endorsing Cer. She didn't endorse Graham Platner. She hasn't
Speaker 1: endorsed this this progressive challenger in Michigan in a house seat.
Speaker 3: And then wasn't on stage for them. Like she's like
Speaker 3: being very careful.
Speaker 1: She's being very careful, but not in a way that
Speaker 1: seems like cautious, Like she's just being deliberate and her
Speaker 1: rhetoric right, Like she said, you know, you can have
Speaker 1: a clear vision for what we're trying to accomplish as
Speaker 1: the country and also include everyone in it and show
Speaker 1: that everyone has a place in that as well. It's
Speaker 1: just it's not it's not the same you hear from
Speaker 1: many of the DSA candidates today except whatm Donnie should say.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I take her also out our word when she
Speaker 3: was asked about this previously. What she's looking for sort
Speaker 3: of outcomes right. She's not just about her and her position.
Speaker 3: And if you think in twenty twenty eight, there's obviously
Speaker 3: going to be a big, contentious and very important primary,
Speaker 3: someone either the vote of the left will be divided
Speaker 3: or will be united behind one figure. If it is her,
Speaker 3: she knows that as that person she trusts, like she
Speaker 3: knows how responsible and capable and careful she will be
Speaker 3: and deliberate about how to hold that position, whether it
Speaker 3: is as the nominee or as the person who helps
Speaker 3: unite the party behind whoever the nominee would be. And
Speaker 3: that is like the figure who is right to like
Speaker 3: represent like what comes after. Bernie is someone who a
Speaker 3: just truly believes in this fight and representing it as
Speaker 3: persuasively as possible, but also like Bernie and AOC understand
Speaker 3: that if the moderate more moderate candidate wins, it is
Speaker 3: just as important to get get behind them.
Speaker 1: She comes across as someone who takes very seriously her
Speaker 1: role in the party wherever whatever it may be, and
Speaker 1: her role in politics, which is a good thing to see.
Speaker 1: All right, that's our show for today, Dan and I
Speaker 1: will be back with a new show on Friday. Positive
Speaker 1: America is a Crooked Media production. Our show is produced
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Speaker 1: Our staff is probably unionized with the Writer's Guild of America,
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