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<v Speaker 1>You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more

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<v Speaker 1>amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, episode number four thirteen.

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<v Speaker 2>In the film business, it's basically honor among thieves, Able.

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<v Speaker 1>Ferraro broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood.

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<v Speaker 3>When we really should be working on that next draft.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and

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<v Speaker 1>business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your

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<v Speaker 1>screenplay bulletproof.

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<v Speaker 3>And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.

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<v Speaker 4>I am your humble host Alex Ferrari.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof script Coverage.

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<v Speaker 3>Now.

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<v Speaker 2>Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses

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<v Speaker 2>on the kind of project you are and the goals

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<v Speaker 2>of the project you are, so we actually break it

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<v Speaker 2>down by three categories, micro budget, indie film, market, and

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<v Speaker 2>studio film. There's no reason to get coverage from a

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<v Speaker 2>reader that's used to reading tempole movies when your movie

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<v Speaker 2>is going to be done for one hundred thousand dollars,

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<v Speaker 2>and we wanted to focus on that. At Bulletproof Script Coverage,

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<v Speaker 2>our readers have worked with Marvel Studios, CIA, WME, NBC, HBO, Disney,

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<v Speaker 2>Scott Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and many many more.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you need your screenplay or TV script covered

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<v Speaker 2>by professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay dot com. Now, guys,

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<v Speaker 2>today on the show, we have filmmaker Greg Hemings. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>Greg is here to talk about something that is not

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<v Speaker 2>talked about a lot in our business, which is abuse

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<v Speaker 2>on the set. Abuse of interns, of people who are

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<v Speaker 2>below you in a way that like not physical abuse,

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<v Speaker 2>though obviously there is that, and there's gonna be two

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<v Speaker 2>movement and all that stuff, but we're here to talk

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<v Speaker 2>about the verbal abuse, the work abuse that's on a

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<v Speaker 2>set that happens, the ribbing, the kind of just this

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<v Speaker 2>nastiness that happens, like you've got to have to like

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<v Speaker 2>kind of go through a hazing process almost when you're

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<v Speaker 2>on set. And Greg has really come out against this

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<v Speaker 2>and wanted to talk about what can be done. What filmmakers,

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<v Speaker 2>especially young filmmakers coming into the business, need to understand

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<v Speaker 2>about abuse on the set. Look I was yelled at.

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<v Speaker 2>I was abused. I was verbally abused by my first

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<v Speaker 2>boss when I was working at a commercial a commercial

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<v Speaker 2>production company down in Miami. I've been abused multiple times

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<v Speaker 2>on sets, meaning a verbally abused and taken advantage of.

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<v Speaker 2>I was working on a TV show as an intern,

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<v Speaker 2>and the executive producer of that show sent me to

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<v Speaker 2>his house to help him move. You know, these are

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<v Speaker 2>kind of things that you do, and what are you

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<v Speaker 2>going to do when you're in that space, when you're

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<v Speaker 2>that young and you know, like this is such a

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<v Speaker 2>powerful person, at least you perceive that they are. They

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<v Speaker 2>can either make or break you. Are you going to

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<v Speaker 2>say no? Are you going to just eat it? Well,

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<v Speaker 2>that's what this whole town is built on. It's built

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<v Speaker 2>on people eating crap a lot of times from other

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<v Speaker 2>people who have made it to a certain level in

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<v Speaker 2>the business who abuse them. And it needs to stop.

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<v Speaker 2>And Greg and I really have a very candid conversation

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<v Speaker 2>about that and what can be done, how you should

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<v Speaker 2>react to those situations and so on. So, without any

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<v Speaker 2>further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Greg Hemmings.

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<v Speaker 4>I'd like to.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to the show. Greg Hemmings man. How you doing,

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<v Speaker 2>Greg so good? Thanks so much for having me on.

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<v Speaker 3>This is fantastic man.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for being on the show man.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for reaching out. A mutual friend of ours, Jimmy

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<v Speaker 2>connected us and you know you wanted to come on

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<v Speaker 2>to talk about a bunch of things. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>the main focus we're going to be doing today is

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<v Speaker 2>abuse in the business, which is shocking because I've never

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<v Speaker 2>heard of any abuse in the business. Have been a

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<v Speaker 2>very Pollyannic kind of world of film industry. There is

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<v Speaker 2>no abuse, there's no yelling, there's no you.

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<v Speaker 3>Know, it's just a kind place. And you know, it's

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<v Speaker 3>a it's certainly not a shame based learning environment. It's

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<v Speaker 3>a it's a place to thrive in blossom.

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<v Speaker 4>I I feel, I feel so the same way.

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<v Speaker 2>That's why I'm bringing all my my children will all

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<v Speaker 2>be starting from scrat It'll be great. It'll be great. No,

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<v Speaker 2>We're We're gonna talk about something that really is is

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit more in the news now. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>Scott Rudin is now famously being basically thrown out of

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<v Speaker 2>Hollywood because of the decades of abuse that he has

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<v Speaker 2>given people.

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<v Speaker 4>I didn't know he was the best.

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<v Speaker 2>He was the source for the very famous film Swimming

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<v Speaker 2>with the Sharks.

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<v Speaker 4>Uh, he was.

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<v Speaker 2>So there was a movie called Swimming with the Sharks

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<v Speaker 2>with Kevin with Kevin Spacey as I mean, you can't write,

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<v Speaker 2>you can't write this stuff, man, I'm sorry. So Kevin

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<v Speaker 2>Spacey was playing the agent, and I forgot who the

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was John Cryer or or not even

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<v Speaker 2>it was John Cryer or another actor of that of

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<v Speaker 2>that generation.

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<v Speaker 4>I forgot who.

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<v Speaker 2>Starred as the assistant. And the assistant was just getting

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<v Speaker 2>i mean, just destroyed by this producer. And everybody in

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<v Speaker 2>town knew who it was, but out in the world

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<v Speaker 2>nobody knew. And it was Scott ruden he was he

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<v Speaker 2>was the producer. So it was a very quiet, hush

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<v Speaker 2>hush thing. But now it just started to come out.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, yeah, it Scott Rudin, who was based the

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<v Speaker 2>basis of that that horrible human being, and uh and

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<v Speaker 2>the whole concept of the bullying and all that stuff.

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<v Speaker 4>We'll get we'll get into him.

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<v Speaker 2>But at first, I want to know, how did you

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<v Speaker 2>get started in this fantastically pollyannic world that is Hollywood.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, okay, so I've got a very long version of

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<v Speaker 3>the story which I will not go into, but I'll

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<v Speaker 3>I appreciate it. I'll try my best to connence it.

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<v Speaker 3>So high school, okay, we're going way back into the

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<v Speaker 3>mid nineties playing a rock band, and like every kid

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<v Speaker 3>playing drums in a rock band, you assume that's what

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<v Speaker 3>you can do for a living, and that obviously you know,

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<v Speaker 3>and going to the career of touring and playing music.

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<v Speaker 3>For me, it didn't quite ten out that way. That's okay.

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<v Speaker 3>But in grade eleven, I was in media studies class

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<v Speaker 3>and I was like, I got to make a music

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<v Speaker 3>video for for my band. And back then, of course,

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<v Speaker 3>all we had was multiple VHS decks, and we had

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<v Speaker 3>the video toaster, classic classic software, the best wipes, the

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<v Speaker 3>best stripper wipes you could ever imagine.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh, they had like the oil.

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<v Speaker 2>It was all we were talking about this before we started.

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<v Speaker 2>Was like they had this this woman dancing as a transition,

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<v Speaker 2>which was obviously a stripper. There was a pole transition

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<v Speaker 2>with like I mean they actually just shot the footage

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<v Speaker 2>of these these so there was sheep falling, there was

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<v Speaker 2>oil transitions, but it was literally physical things that they shot.

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<v Speaker 2>And I guess they keyed and then read and transition

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<v Speaker 2>for it. So it was it was revolutionary at the time.

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<v Speaker 3>Like man, just as a quick as side Alex, we

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<v Speaker 3>should do a short film trying to find the guys

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<v Speaker 3>who designed and go girls who designed those wipes like

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<v Speaker 3>their epic and they don't exist anymore, like you said,

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<v Speaker 3>but wipes of falling sheep anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>You know what I gotta tell you. I found I

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<v Speaker 2>found them. I actually did research and I found them.

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<v Speaker 2>They are available because I wanted I wanted to put

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<v Speaker 2>them out. I like, I'm like, I want to just

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<v Speaker 2>create the video toaster, like who owns these things?

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<v Speaker 4>And I found them.

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<v Speaker 2>I think you can insert them somehow in uh in somewhere.

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<v Speaker 4>But anyway, this is a side note.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's not get into a video toaster episode.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a good digression for anybody in the in the

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<v Speaker 3>nineties who was in the in the in the industry

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<v Speaker 3>at all. Anyhow, I made this music video and I

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<v Speaker 3>was like, this is really cool. And so the only

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<v Speaker 3>thing I did in high school with video was making

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<v Speaker 3>and I was like, hey, putting images to music, it's

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<v Speaker 3>really awesome. And I remember I was in my IV

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<v Speaker 3>history class and we were doing this thing on Pompeii,

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<v Speaker 3>and I took Pink Floyd's Live at Pompeii music track,

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<v Speaker 3>but then I started editing a whole bunch of other

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<v Speaker 3>I was essentially rebuilding the film the Pink Floyd did

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<v Speaker 3>it anyway, but I did it my own way, and

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<v Speaker 3>that was my project, and I was like, hmm, this

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<v Speaker 3>is really cool. So for me, it was all music

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<v Speaker 3>and film, music and video and images coming together, and

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<v Speaker 3>I never really thought about it again. But except for

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<v Speaker 3>the fact that I'm a creative guy, I'm a musician

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<v Speaker 3>and that was a lot of fun playing with video.

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<v Speaker 3>Fast forward to graduation. I go to arts at the

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<v Speaker 3>university in my town, and I just felt like it

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<v Speaker 3>was an extension of high school. Nothing no disrespect to

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<v Speaker 3>the university itself, just all my same friends, the same location.

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<v Speaker 3>And I was just going to arts because I didn't

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<v Speaker 3>know what else to do. And then a buddy of

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<v Speaker 3>mine at a Christmas party I was at. He was

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<v Speaker 3>in Ontario and I hadn't seen him in years, and

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<v Speaker 3>I asked him what he's doing. He goes, I'm going

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<v Speaker 3>to film school. I said, that sounds way cooler than

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<v Speaker 3>what I'm doing. So it was literally out of boredom

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<v Speaker 3>that I was like, that sounds way more cool. So

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<v Speaker 3>I ended up flying to go to the same film school.

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<v Speaker 3>I got accepted at Nagara College and in Niagara Falls, Ontario,

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<v Speaker 3>and went there for three years to study broadcast television

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<v Speaker 3>and film. And that's when we're shooting with Super sixteen

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<v Speaker 3>and editing everything on the stainback. And you know, like

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<v Speaker 3>I loved becoming an editor with film, you know, like

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<v Speaker 3>it really was a it was a gift to learn

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<v Speaker 3>on film. You know, Avid was starting to come onto

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<v Speaker 3>the scene, but you know, early days, Avid, it was

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<v Speaker 3>one hundred and fifty grand if you wanted to jump

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<v Speaker 3>into that e then So it was really it was

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<v Speaker 3>really cool to learn the art of storytelling, even as

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<v Speaker 3>a cinematographer, knowing full well how much that little real

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<v Speaker 3>role of film costs. You know, you're not taking five

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<v Speaker 3>six seven takes. You're doing five six seven rehearsals and

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<v Speaker 3>then a take, and then when you make a cut,

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<v Speaker 3>you better be sure it's the right cut, because you're not.

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<v Speaker 3>You don't have the money to get a reprint.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

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<v Speaker 2>and now back to the show.

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<v Speaker 3>So I really think that learning in the film film

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<v Speaker 3>school environment was really cool for me to to become

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<v Speaker 3>an efficient, you know, a cinematographer, director and editor in

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<v Speaker 3>the earlier years. Quick fast forward into graduating out of college,

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<v Speaker 3>I immediately joined the union and started in the IATs

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<v Speaker 3>and I started in the camera department. And it is

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<v Speaker 3>there that I really get to understand the the movie magic,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, behind the scenes of how movies are made,

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<v Speaker 3>and working on big crews, you know, one hundred and

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<v Speaker 3>two hundred people cruise and doing science fiction series and

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<v Speaker 3>you know, movies of the week. And I remember doing

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<v Speaker 3>a Disney movie in my first or second year and

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<v Speaker 3>just at a lot of really interesting projects. And I

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<v Speaker 3>thought at that point my track was to become, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>a director of photography. So you know, the camera department

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<v Speaker 3>was my was my angle. And you know, I don't

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<v Speaker 3>know if this is where we want to go into

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<v Speaker 3>the into the crisis point. But I don't know about you, Alex,

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<v Speaker 3>but if you're a creative person working in what's supposed

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<v Speaker 3>to be a creative industry, but it is like walking

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<v Speaker 3>on eggs shells and you are you're in an environment

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<v Speaker 3>where the stress is so high there's so much money

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<v Speaker 3>on the table, and you know, Pooper rolls downhill as

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<v Speaker 3>they say, my kids just walked in. It's a dollar

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<v Speaker 3>every time I say the sah word. So and I

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<v Speaker 3>just remember feeling after, you know, working you know, working

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<v Speaker 3>through the ranks and the camera department, never being happy

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<v Speaker 3>going to work. You know. I'm like, this is supposed

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<v Speaker 3>to be movie magic, Like is this supposed to be

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<v Speaker 3>like the dream? You know? And I was like, people

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<v Speaker 3>don't respect people here, Like you're respected if you're up,

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<v Speaker 3>but you're not respected if you're down. And you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I understood that concept of shame based learning, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>like if you screwed up, brought the wrong lens, or

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<v Speaker 3>if you didn't guess what the next lens was that

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<v Speaker 3>your first was calling out for. You know, that sort

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<v Speaker 3>of thing got reprimanded publicly. And for me, I had

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<v Speaker 3>the great blessing Alex of never being bullied in my

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<v Speaker 3>life as a kid. I was one of those kids

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<v Speaker 3>that was friends with everybody, you know, and somehow I

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<v Speaker 3>got saved from being picked on. Maybe I was picked on,

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<v Speaker 3>but I probably had thick enough skin that I didn't

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<v Speaker 3>recognize it. I don't know, So being having the sense

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<v Speaker 3>of being bullied as an adult after spending three years

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<v Speaker 3>doing the film school, telling all your friends and family

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<v Speaker 3>that you're gonna be working in the film industry, and

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<v Speaker 3>then a couple of years into it, realizing that you

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<v Speaker 3>don't want to do it anymore, and feeling that awful

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<v Speaker 3>feeling of am I going to quit this thing? My

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<v Speaker 3>whole identity right now is tied up in this thing,

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<v Speaker 3>right But I had that soul issue of I'm a

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<v Speaker 3>creative person and I wake up and go to set

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<v Speaker 3>and I feel I feel like the creativity is being

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<v Speaker 3>beaten out of me. And you know, some people listening

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<v Speaker 3>to this might might think, oh, well, Greg, you know

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<v Speaker 3>tough enough, that's the way it is, and you're right,

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<v Speaker 3>it is the way it is. But that's not the

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<v Speaker 3>way I am, nor is the way I wanted to

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<v Speaker 3>invest my precious life. You know that, you know, going

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<v Speaker 3>to any job where your soul gets sucked at you,

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<v Speaker 3>what's the point? You know? So that's how I got

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<v Speaker 3>into the film industry. And I'll pause there for a

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<v Speaker 3>second because you might have another direction you want to

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<v Speaker 3>go into. But the how right after I quit, like

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<v Speaker 3>literally the day I said I'm done it was the

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<v Speaker 3>last day on a something like a seven month series.

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<v Speaker 3>I lived in a little oter home behind the set.

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<v Speaker 3>It was pretty cool. That part was neat, but I

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<v Speaker 3>ended up going on this adventure that was completely life changing.

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<v Speaker 3>Which I'll pause right now is every great storyteller will

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<v Speaker 3>just to leave you, leave you hanging. But yeah, anyway,

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<v Speaker 3>I just want to ask you a question first, But

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<v Speaker 3>how I got into the industry. I fell in love

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<v Speaker 3>with film at film school, which is kind of a

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<v Speaker 3>neat props to film school because I wasn't a film

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<v Speaker 3>guy for that.

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<v Speaker 2>So so I mean, look, you and I are of

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<v Speaker 2>similar vintage. So you and I as vintage as we'd

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<v Speaker 2>like to say, a nice way of saying we're both old.

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<v Speaker 2>So but you know, we came up around the same time,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe in different parts of the country, maybe in different industries.

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<v Speaker 2>Around the time that you were in Canada doing what

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<v Speaker 2>you were doing. I was down in Florida going through

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<v Speaker 2>that process as well. And my first, my first meeting

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<v Speaker 2>with that kind of environment was my first internship at

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<v Speaker 2>a very predominant commercial production house and there were a

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<v Speaker 2>couple of owners. One of them was the sweetest man

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<v Speaker 2>in the world, and the other one was bipolar.

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<v Speaker 4>He was bipolar.

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<v Speaker 2>In the days that he did not take his medicine,

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<v Speaker 2>he was a monster. And the day he took his medicine,

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<v Speaker 2>he was the nicest human being on the planet.

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<v Speaker 4>So it was you know, and that was the first time.

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<v Speaker 2>That I would get publicly yelled at for whatever I did,

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<v Speaker 2>some thing wrong I was And this is all office stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>So in the office, I would be yelled and everybody

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<v Speaker 2>in the office kind of felt that energy, like, oh, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>he's here kind of energy. And I was twenty whatever,

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<v Speaker 2>I was like twenty one, twenty two.

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<v Speaker 4>I was a young kid, and him yelling at me.

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<v Speaker 2>But then like the next day show up and it

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<v Speaker 2>would just freak you out because you would just like, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>that's how you do it.

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<v Speaker 4>And I'm like, what the hell? Man, Like it's fine

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<v Speaker 4>for what are mine trips? And he says, hey, man,

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<v Speaker 4>you know I want to watch this movie. I'm going

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<v Speaker 4>to show you this movie. So like one day he would.

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<v Speaker 2>Be like a mentor and the next day he would

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<v Speaker 2>literally just come in like.

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<v Speaker 4>A rampaging bull.

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<v Speaker 2>So that was the first experience of that, and then

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<v Speaker 2>that kind of that kind of experience happened again and

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<v Speaker 2>again on sets. I did a lot of internships on

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<v Speaker 2>a Universal's back lot in Orlando when I was in

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<v Speaker 2>film school. I worked on a lot of TV shows

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<v Speaker 2>there and got hired as a PA and all that stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>And I would see the same thing. I was on

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<v Speaker 2>a Fox show and the producer would show up and

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<v Speaker 2>everyone be really quiet, and you know, like, how is

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<v Speaker 2>he feeling today? Is he Is he going to destroy somebody?

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<v Speaker 2>And you would and I would see him. He never

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<v Speaker 2>took it out on me because I was just so

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<v Speaker 2>low on the total pole that I didn't even matter,

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<v Speaker 2>but he he would destroy, like you know, writers right

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<v Speaker 2>there or other producers or other staff. Uh, and you

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<v Speaker 2>want to talk about abuse. One day he's like, hey, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>the the producer Boris. His name was Boris, which of

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<v Speaker 2>course his name was Boris. Uh, the bors Boris wants

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<v Speaker 2>you to do a special run for him. I'm like, oh, great,

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00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:38.360
<v Speaker 2>this is awesome. I'm gonna do a special run. So

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<v Speaker 2>that gives me and I'm at his house. I'm like great.

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<v Speaker 2>So I I drive out to the house with a

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<v Speaker 2>couple other pas and you know, we're in the van

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<v Speaker 2>and we basically moved his house for him for free.

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<v Speaker 2>So we basically we were his movers for the day.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we like he was moving far more scandalous. I

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<v Speaker 3>don't know, I didn't know where you were going there, but.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh yeah it could have I could have you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I could have gone real like, yeah, I could have

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<v Speaker 2>been uh you know the the I could have been weinsteined,

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<v Speaker 2>but I wasn't.

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<v Speaker 4>So no, but it was. It was.

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<v Speaker 2>But still that's a form of abuse because what do

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<v Speaker 2>you say.

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<v Speaker 4>Do you say no to that?

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<v Speaker 2>Because if you say no to that, then you risk

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<v Speaker 2>your position in the pro in the production, and if

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00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:18.920
<v Speaker 2>you get fired from that production your chances of moving

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00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:21.240
<v Speaker 2>up the scales is hard. So they understand that they

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00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:23.960
<v Speaker 2>have power that they can kind of twist and use

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<v Speaker 2>an abuse, especially of the young, especially of the of.

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<v Speaker 4>People who are just starting out.

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00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:34.960
<v Speaker 2>You just eat it because you have no choice because

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00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:39.440
<v Speaker 2>the opportunities of our business are so minuscules. Sometimes, especially

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00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:42.519
<v Speaker 2>at that era, there was no like, hey, grab your

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<v Speaker 2>own iPhone and make your own movie like that. That

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00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:48.519
<v Speaker 2>didn't that was a tough sell to do that. It

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<v Speaker 2>still cost obscene amounts of money, you know, tens of thousands,

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<v Speaker 2>even on the lower end, you know, Clerk still cost

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<v Speaker 2>twenty three grand, you know, you know, you know, slackers

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<v Speaker 2>still call lost money. You know, these these movies still

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<v Speaker 2>still do cost money. And I was in no position

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<v Speaker 2>to do anything like that.

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<v Speaker 4>So those are the kind of.

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<v Speaker 2>First stories that first times I felt that kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>And you're absolutely right with I love that term shame

365
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<v Speaker 2>based learning, because that's what it is on set. And

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<v Speaker 2>I've been a director for years, and I've been on

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<v Speaker 2>set for years, and I see it. It's never been

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<v Speaker 2>when I'm on a set and I'm a director, I

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<v Speaker 2>never allow abuse. Uh, but that ribbing which sometimes can

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<v Speaker 2>especially in the camera in the grip department. Oh Jesus,

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<v Speaker 2>the camera in the grip department.

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<v Speaker 4>They're brutal. They're just brutal.

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<v Speaker 2>But a lot of times they won't do it publicly.

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<v Speaker 2>They'll do it within their own own own hazingius.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, Yeah, it's.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a hazing process. And some of that is kind

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<v Speaker 2>of ribbing, and it's kind of fun and you're like,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you got oh you got a tough enough.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the business and that's fine and some of that stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and it's a fun environment as long as

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<v Speaker 2>if the person doesn't feel like they're being abused. But

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<v Speaker 2>even then you've got you got to balance that kind

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00:18:59.799 --> 00:19:01.799
<v Speaker 2>of that line, you know, but.

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<v Speaker 3>Think about that in any other industry. So really good

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<v Speaker 3>point is this is why it's so hard for me

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<v Speaker 3>to quit, because I was like, it wasn't easy to

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00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:12.559
<v Speaker 3>get into the union, wasn't easy to go through film school.

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<v Speaker 3>And once you get in, you get to wait for

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00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:17.240
<v Speaker 3>your next turn to get called back. And so you're right,

390
00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:21.079
<v Speaker 3>there is a there's a scarcity approach to the to

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00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:24.240
<v Speaker 3>the film industry that makes us all want to do

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00:19:24.279 --> 00:19:26.039
<v Speaker 3>the right thing and say the right things and you know,

393
00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:29.319
<v Speaker 3>make the right people happy. But unfortunately, if you've got

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00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:33.680
<v Speaker 3>the wrong people in positions of power, the abuses is

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00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:37.799
<v Speaker 3>so easy, right and convenient. And that's but like any

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00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:40.880
<v Speaker 3>other industry. Hey, it happens in every other industry of course,

397
00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:44.480
<v Speaker 3>but specifically in the film industry because it's so scarce

398
00:19:44.599 --> 00:19:47.759
<v Speaker 3>and it's so special, Like the film industry is so

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<v Speaker 3>so magical from the outside.

400
00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:52.079
<v Speaker 2>Right, it's just a market. It's just a marketing and

401
00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:54.559
<v Speaker 2>branding tool. Like I always say, Hollywood's great at the sizzle,

402
00:19:54.599 --> 00:19:58.200
<v Speaker 2>but it sucks at the stake. We'll be right back

403
00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:04.279
<v Speaker 2>after a word from our sponsor. And now back to

404
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:08.079
<v Speaker 2>the show. You know they I mean, and I always

405
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<v Speaker 2>use the analogy of the Oscars.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, when you see Oscar Night.

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00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:15.039
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if you've been down to Hollywood Boulevard,

408
00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:18.559
<v Speaker 2>but yeah, yeah, if you go Oscar Night, man Oscar

409
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<v Speaker 2>Night in a normal Oscar Night situation, red carpets, that

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00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:26.680
<v Speaker 2>Hollywood Boulevard looks like a magical place. You leave the

411
00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:28.839
<v Speaker 2>next week, I mean you should.

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00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:31.039
<v Speaker 4>You can't walk if you walk a block or two

413
00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:33.400
<v Speaker 4>away from the Adobe Theater.

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00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:36.440
<v Speaker 2>You know, the darker it gets, the more chances you're

415
00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:38.079
<v Speaker 2>gonna get stabbed or hit with a needle.

416
00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:40.000
<v Speaker 4>Like it's a horrible, horrible place.

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00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:44.599
<v Speaker 3>Funny, I was in Hollywood just before the pandemic hit,

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00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:49.759
<v Speaker 3>so I think it was November of nineteen, was that right, Yeah? Yeah,

419
00:20:49.799 --> 00:20:53.720
<v Speaker 3>And we're putting a film festival on at Wanderlust Yeah

420
00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:57.200
<v Speaker 3>really cool yoga yoga spot as an impact film festival.

421
00:20:57.240 --> 00:20:59.599
<v Speaker 3>So I brought it in. You know, films from Patagonia

422
00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:03.799
<v Speaker 3>and from you know, a bunch of different like B

423
00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:07.200
<v Speaker 3>corp companies that are doing like corporate but like documentaries

424
00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:09.880
<v Speaker 3>that are really you know, making making the world change.

425
00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:14.079
<v Speaker 3>And sol pancake plays like that. It was a really

426
00:21:14.119 --> 00:21:16.400
<v Speaker 3>cool gun. But I remember one of the nights I

427
00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:19.480
<v Speaker 3>was there, it was like nine o'clock at night and

428
00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:22.440
<v Speaker 3>everything was shut on Boulevard. There's no like there's one

429
00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:24.240
<v Speaker 3>pizza place we found, and I was like, I thought

430
00:21:24.279 --> 00:21:25.759
<v Speaker 3>this place is I thought it was like the strip

431
00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:28.160
<v Speaker 3>in Vegas. No, no, no, it's horrible.

432
00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:28.960
<v Speaker 4>It's Look.

433
00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:31.079
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you my first experience going to Hollywood Bolvard.

434
00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:33.799
<v Speaker 2>This is what happens when anyone comes to La who's

435
00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:36.240
<v Speaker 2>visiting people who live in La. So I was visiting

436
00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:37.680
<v Speaker 2>someone who lived in La and I the first thing

437
00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:38.839
<v Speaker 2>my wife and I said, like, we gotta go to

438
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:43.640
<v Speaker 2>Hollywood Bullvard and you see the face just go like, Okay,

439
00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:47.480
<v Speaker 2>it's not what you think it is. I'm like, no, no, golly, Hollywood.

440
00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:48.559
<v Speaker 4>I want to put I want to see.

441
00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:50.240
<v Speaker 2>Where the hands are in the prints in the Chinese Theater.

442
00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:54.880
<v Speaker 2>So we drive there and this is before Madame Tussau's.

443
00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:58.160
<v Speaker 2>That whole complex was just a parking lot right when

444
00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:00.480
<v Speaker 2>I got there. So we park right next to the

445
00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:04.119
<v Speaker 2>Chinese Theater. We get out, and the moment we get out,

446
00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:08.920
<v Speaker 2>some woman, random woman walking by, she goes, hey, and

447
00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:14.480
<v Speaker 2>she just flashes us and she's like, whoa Hollywood. And

448
00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:16.160
<v Speaker 2>then and then my buddy turns to me and goes,

449
00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:19.480
<v Speaker 2>welcome Hollywood. I was like, holy cow, and like and

450
00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:22.799
<v Speaker 2>then I just walked around. I'm like, this is horrible,

451
00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:25.519
<v Speaker 2>Like this is nasty, this is I don't want to

452
00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:27.359
<v Speaker 2>be here. Anytime I've ever had to go down to

453
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:29.720
<v Speaker 2>Hollywood Boulevard, it always I'm like, ugh, I have to

454
00:22:29.720 --> 00:22:31.599
<v Speaker 2>go to the Chinese theater for a film festival or something,

455
00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:33.319
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, oh God, I don't want to go down there.

456
00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:36.119
<v Speaker 4>Oh it's horrible. But that is the sizzle and the stake.

457
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:39.119
<v Speaker 2>That's what Hollywood is so brilliant at. They are the

458
00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:44.640
<v Speaker 2>best propa. They're the best propaganda machine in history because

459
00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:49.599
<v Speaker 2>Hollywood and movie stars and our culture here in America

460
00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:52.000
<v Speaker 2>in general has been exported to the entire world.

461
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:53.640
<v Speaker 4>In the entire world buys it.

462
00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:56.680
<v Speaker 2>But the at the end of the day, it's not

463
00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:00.640
<v Speaker 2>real life is not like friends, you know, it's just not.

464
00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:02.559
<v Speaker 4>It's it's not.

465
00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:04.720
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't when they were making it. They couldn't afford

466
00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:06.720
<v Speaker 2>that damn apartment in New York in a real life

467
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:09.640
<v Speaker 2>Like how the hell? So we're going on a tangent,

468
00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:11.000
<v Speaker 2>but that is this is in the stake.

469
00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:16.599
<v Speaker 3>You're absolutely right, Yeah, so they that's uh. I think

470
00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:18.480
<v Speaker 3>it's like a little bit of a dream crusher too

471
00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:21.279
<v Speaker 3>in a way when when young people get into the

472
00:23:21.319 --> 00:23:24.920
<v Speaker 3>industry and uh, and they're present and you know what,

473
00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:27.799
<v Speaker 3>this doesn't happen everybody, you know, it just happened to me.

474
00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:30.279
<v Speaker 3>You know, other people thrive in that and they learn

475
00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:33.799
<v Speaker 3>really great in that and all that. I do remember

476
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:37.559
<v Speaker 3>feeling great responsibility. It's a camera trainee and there's a

477
00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:42.680
<v Speaker 3>second camera assistant holding that megafilm that we that we

478
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:45.039
<v Speaker 3>shot probably for the last hour and a half with

479
00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:47.279
<v Speaker 3>who knows what the payroll was for the actors that

480
00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:49.359
<v Speaker 3>are on that one thing of film. And here's me,

481
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:51.559
<v Speaker 3>the lowest paid guy on set going into the dark

482
00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:54.960
<v Speaker 3>room or into the dark bag? Why would shoot changing it?

483
00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:58.559
<v Speaker 3>And if one ounce of light gets into that like

484
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:01.720
<v Speaker 3>it was incredible. So I understand the pressure. I understand

485
00:24:01.720 --> 00:24:06.279
<v Speaker 3>why it's so critical to be militant and precise, but

486
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:10.119
<v Speaker 3>there's ways of doing that that help people be inspired

487
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:14.319
<v Speaker 3>and excited. And you know, fast forward to where we

488
00:24:14.359 --> 00:24:17.960
<v Speaker 3>are now, that's the film culture. I've been trying to

489
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:24.519
<v Speaker 3>build surrounding my company, but you know, going going back

490
00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:28.519
<v Speaker 3>just to finish off my journey. I ended up. A

491
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:32.400
<v Speaker 3>couple of days after I quit the industry, I went

492
00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:34.960
<v Speaker 3>to see one of my favorite bands play in a

493
00:24:35.079 --> 00:24:38.839
<v Speaker 3>neighboring town and this this lady came up to me

494
00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:41.319
<v Speaker 3>and named Charlene. I never met her before, but she

495
00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:43.599
<v Speaker 3>had a flask of yeagermeister. She's like, you want some

496
00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:45.759
<v Speaker 3>ygger and I was like, yes, I do. So I

497
00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:47.960
<v Speaker 3>had a couple of swigs and she told me that

498
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:52.079
<v Speaker 3>her her ole man, her boyfriend was this Dutch captain

499
00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:54.240
<v Speaker 3>who lived in a sailboat in the Caribbean and he

500
00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:57.319
<v Speaker 3>runs cargo like all over the place. And I was like,

501
00:24:57.319 --> 00:24:58.680
<v Speaker 3>I used to say when I was a kid, I'd

502
00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:01.799
<v Speaker 3>love to do that. And literally this week before nine

503
00:25:01.799 --> 00:25:03.519
<v Speaker 3>to eleven, so it was very easy to get a passport.

504
00:25:03.559 --> 00:25:06.759
<v Speaker 3>I didn't have a passport yet. Just a number of

505
00:25:06.839 --> 00:25:09.000
<v Speaker 3>days later, I had my passport and I was on

506
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:11.799
<v Speaker 3>an airplane. Had no idea what was getting myself into.

507
00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:16.519
<v Speaker 3>And like I said earlier, like this, you know what's

508
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:18.440
<v Speaker 3>the scandalous thing? Were what to jump into? I was like,

509
00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:20.440
<v Speaker 3>am I going to be running drugs on the sailboat.

510
00:25:20.759 --> 00:25:22.440
<v Speaker 3>Is it going to be guns? Is it? What are

511
00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:24.880
<v Speaker 3>we doing here? Because nobody told me, just like here's

512
00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:27.799
<v Speaker 3>your plane ticket, he needs crew, So I land and

513
00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:29.759
<v Speaker 3>I ended up living on a sailboat, on a massive

514
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:31.920
<v Speaker 3>one hundred and ten foot saleboat. And there's just captain

515
00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:34.119
<v Speaker 3>me and this other guy named Tyris from Saint Lucia,

516
00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:36.759
<v Speaker 3>and we delivered cargo with a little crane. It could

517
00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:39.559
<v Speaker 3>we pickup trucks, so it could we rive refrigerators, fish, whatever,

518
00:25:40.039 --> 00:25:44.279
<v Speaker 3>And we'd sail into little markets, I say, markets like

519
00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:47.279
<v Speaker 3>island markets where the big cargo ships wouldn't be able

520
00:25:47.319 --> 00:25:49.920
<v Speaker 3>to get to efficiently, so we would get we'd fill

521
00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:53.720
<v Speaker 3>up the supplies for shops, grocery stores, whatever, very quickly

522
00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:55.759
<v Speaker 3>and efficiently, all by the power of the wind. So

523
00:25:55.960 --> 00:25:59.799
<v Speaker 3>like we'd sail like fifteen pickup trucks to islands and stuff.

524
00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:02.000
<v Speaker 3>And the film industry and the sale it comes from

525
00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:05.079
<v Speaker 3>the sailing world, right, if you're a sailor, there's a

526
00:26:05.079 --> 00:26:06.960
<v Speaker 3>good chance you're gonna be a good rigger and a

527
00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:07.680
<v Speaker 3>good grill.

528
00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:08.279
<v Speaker 2>Good grip.

529
00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:09.680
<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, absolutely, all.

530
00:26:09.880 --> 00:26:11.839
<v Speaker 3>That sort of thing. So it felt very natural, and

531
00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:15.279
<v Speaker 3>I was smart enough to use a few dollars before

532
00:26:15.319 --> 00:26:17.680
<v Speaker 3>I went on that trip to buy my first camera,

533
00:26:17.799 --> 00:26:22.039
<v Speaker 3>which is the Canon gl One, and I just documented

534
00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:26.680
<v Speaker 3>that whole experience down there, and my time in the

535
00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:29.880
<v Speaker 3>Caribbean continued. I after the sailing adventure that went on

536
00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:32.000
<v Speaker 3>for a very long time, I jumped on a cruise

537
00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:35.480
<v Speaker 3>ship as a theater guy, and quickly they found out

538
00:26:35.480 --> 00:26:37.240
<v Speaker 3>that I was a film guy. And I opened up

539
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:39.799
<v Speaker 3>some of their broadcast departments on some of the ships

540
00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:42.920
<v Speaker 3>and they had Avid so like one hundred and fifty

541
00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:45.440
<v Speaker 3>thousand dollars version of that where I'm like, oh, this

542
00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:47.440
<v Speaker 3>is nice. So I would come home in the summer

543
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:51.240
<v Speaker 3>and I would make music documentaries do you know different

544
00:26:51.279 --> 00:26:53.640
<v Speaker 3>music festivals and whatnot. And I come back in the

545
00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:56.000
<v Speaker 3>winter and do my job, but also edit all my

546
00:26:56.000 --> 00:26:57.720
<v Speaker 3>films on the avids on the cruise ships.

547
00:26:57.839 --> 00:26:59.799
<v Speaker 2>And I did that free time off. Yeah, free time off.

548
00:27:00.039 --> 00:27:02.519
<v Speaker 2>Isn't it funny though? Isn't it funny? What you're saying

549
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:04.640
<v Speaker 2>is because I've said this so many times. When you

550
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:07.240
<v Speaker 2>get bit by the bug, you can't it's it's a

551
00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:08.640
<v Speaker 2>it's it's an infection.

552
00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:09.559
<v Speaker 4>You can't get rid of it.

553
00:27:09.559 --> 00:27:11.119
<v Speaker 2>It's it's done. It's in your bloodstream.

554
00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:12.559
<v Speaker 3>I thought I was done, but I wasn't.

555
00:27:13.759 --> 00:27:15.799
<v Speaker 2>It comes back up wherever you are in life.

556
00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:17.680
<v Speaker 4>You're like, I'm gonna cruise ship. I should maybe bring

557
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:20.599
<v Speaker 4>a camera. Like that's that's a sickness. It's not like

558
00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:21.480
<v Speaker 4>I'm just gonna leave.

559
00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:24.359
<v Speaker 2>It is an illness because like you know, when you

560
00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:27.200
<v Speaker 2>leave McDonald's from a job, like I quit McDonald's, I

561
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:29.079
<v Speaker 2>will never work in the fast food industry again. You

562
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:30.599
<v Speaker 2>don't go to another job and go, you know what,

563
00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:33.200
<v Speaker 2>we need burgers. Like it's not you bring with you

564
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:37.079
<v Speaker 2>but a thing. It's once you're in, it's in you

565
00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:38.240
<v Speaker 2>and you can't get rid of it. And it can

566
00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:40.640
<v Speaker 2>go dormant for years, by the way, a decade or

567
00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:41.359
<v Speaker 2>two could go by.

568
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:43.480
<v Speaker 4>It'll always live underneath.

569
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:45.559
<v Speaker 2>And I got I got sixty year old seven year

570
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:47.680
<v Speaker 2>olds seriously come to me like, you know what, I

571
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:50.559
<v Speaker 2>just retired. I want to be a filmmaker now again.

572
00:27:50.599 --> 00:27:52.079
<v Speaker 2>And I got the money. I'm gonna go make my

573
00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:52.599
<v Speaker 2>first movie.

574
00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:55.839
<v Speaker 5>And that's it's just it's an illness.

575
00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:57.920
<v Speaker 3>That's the name of your next book, Alex.

576
00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:04.880
<v Speaker 5>The illness, the old, the illness, the illness. No, it's

577
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:07.279
<v Speaker 5>the beautiful illness, but it's not really It depends on

578
00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:09.359
<v Speaker 5>the illness. It could beautiful, it could be horrible. It

579
00:28:09.400 --> 00:28:11.359
<v Speaker 5>all depends.

580
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:13.839
<v Speaker 2>But that's fascinating that that's the kind of route you

581
00:28:13.880 --> 00:28:17.359
<v Speaker 2>went to. Like my route was more post. I found

582
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:19.680
<v Speaker 2>my life in post because one, I didn't have to

583
00:28:19.720 --> 00:28:23.400
<v Speaker 2>deal with anybody, generally the one person maybe a producer.

584
00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:26.160
<v Speaker 2>The abuse wasn't as much inside of a room one

585
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:29.200
<v Speaker 2>on one, because there's a bravery that needs to be

586
00:28:29.240 --> 00:28:31.960
<v Speaker 2>there from the person in power to yell at the

587
00:28:31.960 --> 00:28:34.640
<v Speaker 2>person who has control of your entire nobody else around,

588
00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:37.960
<v Speaker 2>right right, So there wasn't as much abuse. I don't

589
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:41.279
<v Speaker 2>think I was ever really yelled at in post. I

590
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:44.039
<v Speaker 2>can't remember if I did. I've forgotten it over the years,

591
00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:46.720
<v Speaker 2>but it wasn't as prevalent. It is on set because

592
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:49.519
<v Speaker 2>the egos are on set and you've got to show off,

593
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:52.480
<v Speaker 2>and sometimes it's and there's politics involved in all that

594
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:55.400
<v Speaker 2>kind of stuff. I did have a fistfight start in

595
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:59.000
<v Speaker 2>my in my post suite, not me. I was between

596
00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:02.160
<v Speaker 2>a client and UH and the agency who got fired.

597
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:05.960
<v Speaker 2>The agency got the agency got fired mid edit.

598
00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:08.440
<v Speaker 3>There's a fist fight.

599
00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:10.400
<v Speaker 4>It's Miami. It's Miami.

600
00:29:10.480 --> 00:29:12.559
<v Speaker 3>It's Miami's magic right there.

601
00:29:12.759 --> 00:29:15.680
<v Speaker 4>It's my It's it's Miami, bro, It's it's Miami. It happens.

602
00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:18.799
<v Speaker 2>But you, you know you when you when you reached

603
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:20.000
<v Speaker 2>out to me the first time you sent me this

604
00:29:20.039 --> 00:29:28.599
<v Speaker 2>amazing article about your America American ninja or American American, Yes,

605
00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:34.000
<v Speaker 2>American Ninja, the American the American Ninja. Michael Dudkov on

606
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:39.440
<v Speaker 2>sets behavior. Can you please please please throw it out

607
00:29:39.480 --> 00:29:40.559
<v Speaker 2>into the world.

608
00:29:40.920 --> 00:29:44.200
<v Speaker 3>I'd love to tell this story because it's it really

609
00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:47.960
<v Speaker 3>wasn't a hurtful experience, but it embodies everything we're talking

610
00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:51.359
<v Speaker 3>about here. Okay, so it was my first film. So

611
00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:54.119
<v Speaker 3>my buddy Andrew Tibby and I he was my buddy

612
00:29:54.119 --> 00:29:55.519
<v Speaker 3>by the way, that got me into film school. But

613
00:29:55.519 --> 00:29:57.759
<v Speaker 3>that both of us we got on our very first

614
00:29:58.200 --> 00:29:59.079
<v Speaker 3>feature film together.

615
00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:03.119
<v Speaker 2>We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

616
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:08.000
<v Speaker 2>And now back to the show.

617
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:12.279
<v Speaker 3>And Sydney Fury was the director. And Sidney Fury did

618
00:30:12.319 --> 00:30:15.319
<v Speaker 3>Iron Eagle and Superman four and a bunch of other

619
00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:19.839
<v Speaker 3>interesting Superman four okay, so look him up though. Sidney

620
00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:23.079
<v Speaker 3>Fury is one of those guys that that directed a

621
00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:26.119
<v Speaker 3>whole bunch of awesome films that were that were typically

622
00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:31.440
<v Speaker 3>with numbers besides them, you know, yeah, but a really

623
00:30:31.559 --> 00:30:35.319
<v Speaker 3>well respected director. He was a lovely man. I don't

624
00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:37.920
<v Speaker 3>I'm assuming he's still around, but he was. He was

625
00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:40.599
<v Speaker 3>older at the time, so this would have been late nineties.

626
00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:45.519
<v Speaker 3>And I went with Tidby, my buddy, and we we said,

627
00:30:45.640 --> 00:30:48.160
<v Speaker 3>can we We're in film school right now, our second year,

628
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:50.640
<v Speaker 3>can we can we? It was the summertime, can we

629
00:30:50.839 --> 00:30:52.440
<v Speaker 3>get a gig? And I said, well, we don't have

630
00:30:52.519 --> 00:30:55.519
<v Speaker 3>any budget, but we're welcome to come and be a

631
00:30:55.559 --> 00:30:58.519
<v Speaker 3>trainee volunteer trainee, and we're like, let's do it, you know.

632
00:30:58.640 --> 00:31:00.480
<v Speaker 3>And it was it was a very quick shoe too

633
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:03.400
<v Speaker 3>is in like three weeks or something, and it was insane. Man.

634
00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:06.000
<v Speaker 3>They had like four camera shooting at the same time

635
00:31:06.039 --> 00:31:08.599
<v Speaker 3>because it was such a quick turnaround. So it was

636
00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:13.279
<v Speaker 3>it was nutty. And so we started to learn a

637
00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:15.119
<v Speaker 3>little bit of the ropes and it's totally different film

638
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:18.720
<v Speaker 3>school teaching one thing. The real world thing is completely different.

639
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:21.880
<v Speaker 3>And hence where I learned immediately about the shame based

640
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:24.519
<v Speaker 3>learning thing. And we got bullied really bad, I I

641
00:31:24.559 --> 00:31:27.759
<v Speaker 3>you know, and that's it was just a weird experience

642
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:33.359
<v Speaker 3>to go through. But Michael Dodicaf the American Ninja. I

643
00:31:33.359 --> 00:31:36.039
<v Speaker 3>remember the scene Marlee Matlin. You know Marley Mattin of.

644
00:31:36.039 --> 00:31:39.599
<v Speaker 2>Course, the Oscar winning actress from Children of a Lesser God.

645
00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:42.039
<v Speaker 3>Which was shot in my city, Saint johniey Brunswick.

646
00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:42.640
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

647
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:50.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've always heard she's a very sweet.

648
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:51.640
<v Speaker 3>Interestingly, Marley Matlin was back. We were shooting that feature

649
00:31:51.640 --> 00:31:53.559
<v Speaker 3>here in Saint John and the East Coast of Canada,

650
00:31:53.920 --> 00:31:55.920
<v Speaker 3>and that would have been her second film here because

651
00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:58.519
<v Speaker 3>she did Children of a Lesser God back in the eighties.

652
00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:03.039
<v Speaker 3>Here was the scene and Michael Dudicoff's character was to

653
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:06.720
<v Speaker 3>come into the room. She was laying in bed and

654
00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:08.599
<v Speaker 3>he was coming in with a bunch of papers. It

655
00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:11.319
<v Speaker 3>was just setting up the scene talking to his wife.

656
00:32:11.359 --> 00:32:14.920
<v Speaker 3>And so Michael comes in, we do he doesn't come in.

657
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:17.279
<v Speaker 3>We do the slates because we had multiple cameras in

658
00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:19.720
<v Speaker 3>this scene. There's two cameras going on, so my buddy

659
00:32:19.759 --> 00:32:22.359
<v Speaker 3>Andrew had one slate. I had the other so camera

660
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:25.400
<v Speaker 3>a slate camera B slate and then we would tuck

661
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:28.680
<v Speaker 3>around the door and then Doudkuff would come running through

662
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:32.039
<v Speaker 3>and the scene would start. So he came running through,

663
00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:36.119
<v Speaker 3>all right, and he tripped over Andrew's leg. All the

664
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:40.599
<v Speaker 3>papers go everywhere, and of course the scene gets okay,

665
00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:44.119
<v Speaker 3>cut cut, and Michael Dudicuff gets up in a rage

666
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:47.920
<v Speaker 3>and I'm just it's so bizarre in front and he

667
00:32:48.039 --> 00:32:52.599
<v Speaker 3>pulls his leg back and wallops Tibby right in the stomach,

668
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:55.799
<v Speaker 3>kicks him. And the comedy of all of this is

669
00:32:56.720 --> 00:33:01.519
<v Speaker 3>the American Ninja himself uses a ninja leg to kick

670
00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:03.680
<v Speaker 3>Tiddy in the gut. And you know, I talked to

671
00:33:03.759 --> 00:33:05.480
<v Speaker 3>him to my buddy Timmy just the ed day of

672
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:07.160
<v Speaker 3>the story, and we laughed so much because it's like,

673
00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:09.200
<v Speaker 3>who else can say that they got kicked by the

674
00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:13.799
<v Speaker 3>American ninja? You know? But the what I recognized on

675
00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:17.400
<v Speaker 3>that shoot that was so awful in so many different

676
00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:22.480
<v Speaker 3>ways that nobody said anything, nobody a thing, and it

677
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:24.680
<v Speaker 3>was the most inappropriate behavior it was. It was a

678
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:28.400
<v Speaker 3>little a little rage that the guy had and he

679
00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:30.400
<v Speaker 3>didn't hurt Tidby or anything, you know, but it's just

680
00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:32.880
<v Speaker 3>like symbolically, I was like, oh, this is we're in

681
00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:38.839
<v Speaker 3>the union. Isn't there some union or something? So here's

682
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:41.640
<v Speaker 3>an interesting thing. Just to tie that story up, Sidney

683
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:45.480
<v Speaker 3>Fury at the rap party came up to me and said, boys,

684
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:49.200
<v Speaker 3>you know, great work. Sorry, I saw a lot of

685
00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:51.279
<v Speaker 3>a lot of people picking on you guys. Sorry sorry

686
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:53.799
<v Speaker 3>about that, but I really appreciate all the effort you

687
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:56.599
<v Speaker 3>put in to help me with my vision of my film.

688
00:33:56.960 --> 00:34:00.440
<v Speaker 3>And then he found out that we were volunteers. And

689
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:02.279
<v Speaker 3>then as soon as you found out we didn't get paid,

690
00:34:02.519 --> 00:34:05.640
<v Speaker 3>he stopped the party. There's a band plan and everything stopped.

691
00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:08.599
<v Speaker 3>The party got up on the microphone and was so

692
00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:11.079
<v Speaker 3>pissed off, and he was like, he did this big

693
00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:13.280
<v Speaker 3>speech to the whole thing and said, I just found

694
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:15.719
<v Speaker 3>out that those two guys that you guys have been

695
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:19.480
<v Speaker 3>so disrespectful to throughout this whole film, we're not getting paid.

696
00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:21.840
<v Speaker 3>They were volunteering on my film to help me, to

697
00:34:21.880 --> 00:34:24.920
<v Speaker 3>help make this a better film. And then he pulled

698
00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:26.960
<v Speaker 3>out one hundred dollars bell and put it in his

699
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:29.400
<v Speaker 3>hat and he goes, everybody's putting money in here. So

700
00:34:29.639 --> 00:34:32.280
<v Speaker 3>the hat went around the room. Everybody put money in it.

701
00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:34.199
<v Speaker 3>I bought it. I bought my first motorbike with that money.

702
00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:38.559
<v Speaker 3>And here's the interesting thing that he said. Remember this

703
00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:41.199
<v Speaker 3>feature was being shot here in my part of the country,

704
00:34:41.239 --> 00:34:44.159
<v Speaker 3>so people that I would come to get to know.

705
00:34:44.360 --> 00:34:45.960
<v Speaker 3>This is our first, my first film, so there's all

706
00:34:46.039 --> 00:34:48.280
<v Speaker 3>new people. He said, you all of you have to

707
00:34:48.320 --> 00:34:52.559
<v Speaker 3>watch out. Eventually all of you will be working for

708
00:34:52.599 --> 00:34:56.119
<v Speaker 3>these two guys, so be careful with who you pushing

709
00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:59.800
<v Speaker 3>around and bully. Now, interestingly, the bullies on that set

710
00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:02.159
<v Speaker 3>were the Toronto crew, not the local crew. The local

711
00:35:02.199 --> 00:35:06.320
<v Speaker 3>crew were great. But that that prophecy came true because

712
00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:09.559
<v Speaker 3>we did become producers, both of us in our own companies,

713
00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:12.000
<v Speaker 3>and hired a lot of these guys. And but I

714
00:35:12.039 --> 00:35:15.559
<v Speaker 3>really liked what Sidney Fury said. There is be careful

715
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:19.480
<v Speaker 3>who you disrespect, just on the on the basis of

716
00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:21.440
<v Speaker 3>it's probably going to bite you in the butt down

717
00:35:21.480 --> 00:35:24.119
<v Speaker 3>the road, right, And uh, I thought it was a

718
00:35:24.199 --> 00:35:26.960
<v Speaker 3>really cool of him to do that. Also, I rolled

719
00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:28.679
<v Speaker 3>my eyes a bit, and I was like, funny that

720
00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:30.159
<v Speaker 3>if we were getting paid, it was okay to get

721
00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:31.280
<v Speaker 3>kicked by the American Ninja.

722
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:35.000
<v Speaker 2>But to be fair, I mean many people would have

723
00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:37.280
<v Speaker 2>been would have paid to get kicked by the American Ninja.

724
00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:39.079
<v Speaker 3>So that I mean, in a way, I suppose we did.

725
00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:43.079
<v Speaker 2>No like we're laughing, we're joking about it, but that

726
00:35:43.079 --> 00:35:47.639
<v Speaker 2>that is is so on, that is so unacceptable. I've

727
00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:52.480
<v Speaker 2>never seen physical violence from an actor to an intern

728
00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:54.360
<v Speaker 2>or volunteer.

729
00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:56.159
<v Speaker 4>Ever in my life, let alone to anybody else on set.

730
00:35:56.280 --> 00:36:01.000
<v Speaker 2>Physical I've never heard much many physical fights, other than

731
00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:04.079
<v Speaker 2>maybe amongst the higher ups. Like when the gods are fighting,

732
00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:07.039
<v Speaker 2>that's one thing, but the gods generally don't fight with

733
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:09.519
<v Speaker 2>the with the mortals if you if you will in

734
00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:12.559
<v Speaker 2>that whole And even as I'm saying that it's ridiculous,

735
00:36:12.599 --> 00:36:15.440
<v Speaker 2>they're they're human beings. Just because they're at a higher

736
00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:18.159
<v Speaker 2>level in the business doesn't give them more or less

737
00:36:18.280 --> 00:36:20.840
<v Speaker 2>rights to hurt you or to abuse you.

738
00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:21.760
<v Speaker 4>It's not right.

739
00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:25.639
<v Speaker 2>Like we started off the conversation Scott Ruden, who is

740
00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:31.159
<v Speaker 2>legendary for being a complete ass and and and literally

741
00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:36.920
<v Speaker 2>torturing people, throwing things at people, physically attacking people, I mean, Harvey,

742
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:40.440
<v Speaker 2>mister Weinstein, and that he doesn't deserve the mister Weinstein,

743
00:36:40.599 --> 00:36:44.159
<v Speaker 2>Harvey the ass. He was the one of the biggest

744
00:36:44.159 --> 00:36:49.760
<v Speaker 2>bullies in Hollywood in a town full of bullies, and

745
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:52.360
<v Speaker 2>and we're just talking about this kind of abuse. I mean,

746
00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:56.239
<v Speaker 2>obviously the hole Me Too movement is I mean, that's

747
00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:58.039
<v Speaker 2>a whole other level of abuse.

748
00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:00.960
<v Speaker 3>That you and I were guy in the you know,

749
00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:04.840
<v Speaker 3>like like the fact that we felt it like if

750
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:09.480
<v Speaker 3>you're a minority, or if you're of a different you know,

751
00:37:09.639 --> 00:37:15.760
<v Speaker 3>sexual orientation or a female, like everything stacked against you

752
00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:19.920
<v Speaker 3>on that old school way of doing films. And think

753
00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:23.920
<v Speaker 3>about where. You know, Hollywood is the birthplace of this culture.

754
00:37:23.960 --> 00:37:28.159
<v Speaker 3>In those early days, we weren't focusing on businesses that

755
00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:31.079
<v Speaker 3>are focused on jet you know, justice, equity, diversity, diversity

756
00:37:31.079 --> 00:37:35.119
<v Speaker 3>and inclusion. We weren't trying to create equitable workplaces and

757
00:37:35.199 --> 00:37:38.440
<v Speaker 3>safe places. It was run by men that want to

758
00:37:38.440 --> 00:37:42.079
<v Speaker 3>make a lot of money. And that's that culture continue.

759
00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:44.199
<v Speaker 3>It's very hard to break those patterns, you know.

760
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:47.719
<v Speaker 4>And no question, no, no question at all.

761
00:37:47.760 --> 00:37:49.519
<v Speaker 2>And I was I was lucky in the sense because

762
00:37:49.719 --> 00:37:53.760
<v Speaker 2>I came up in Miami where I'm a man of color,

763
00:37:53.800 --> 00:37:57.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm a Latino man, so it was there was like

764
00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:00.480
<v Speaker 2>that's the crew. So there was Latino people there in

765
00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:03.079
<v Speaker 2>Miami when big like bad boys would show up or

766
00:38:03.440 --> 00:38:05.039
<v Speaker 2>Miami Vice like, there was.

767
00:38:05.679 --> 00:38:07.280
<v Speaker 4>You know, there was Latinos everywhere.

768
00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:10.960
<v Speaker 2>But anytime I rarely ever saw a female on set

769
00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:12.719
<v Speaker 2>unless they were in a certain department, whether it be

770
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:15.679
<v Speaker 2>costume or makeup or something like that. Occasionally, once in

771
00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:19.159
<v Speaker 2>a blue moon, I would see a female grip and

772
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:21.880
<v Speaker 2>that always blew my mind. I've had female grips work

773
00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:24.079
<v Speaker 2>on my set and it blew my mind because at

774
00:38:24.079 --> 00:38:26.719
<v Speaker 2>the time, I'm like, man, she's got to be putting

775
00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:28.800
<v Speaker 2>up with some some stuff, because I mean, if you're

776
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:31.559
<v Speaker 2>in the grip department, that's the arguably, and I've been

777
00:38:31.559 --> 00:38:33.679
<v Speaker 2>in the grip department, that's arguably.

778
00:38:33.239 --> 00:38:36.920
<v Speaker 4>The roughest place to be part of.

779
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:39.800
<v Speaker 2>It is the carneys. It is the carneys.

780
00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:41.280
<v Speaker 4>They eat raw meat.

781
00:38:41.880 --> 00:38:44.639
<v Speaker 2>I mean it is. I mean it is, and I

782
00:38:44.679 --> 00:38:48.079
<v Speaker 2>love them, by the way. I love my grips, love

783
00:38:48.159 --> 00:38:50.159
<v Speaker 2>my grips, and I'll be the first to call them

784
00:38:50.199 --> 00:38:52.719
<v Speaker 2>out in front to their faces, like guys, you know,

785
00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:55.960
<v Speaker 2>you guys are crazy. The only the only group that's

786
00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:59.559
<v Speaker 2>crazier than the grips is the stunt team. Like the

787
00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:03.760
<v Speaker 2>stunt guys, the stunt guys and gals. The stunt guys

788
00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:08.800
<v Speaker 2>and gals, by the way, argue really interesting. Female stunt

789
00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:14.159
<v Speaker 2>women are more respected and more They're much more respected

790
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:17.960
<v Speaker 2>than any other area on the set for females because

791
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:20.159
<v Speaker 2>I remember having working with a stunt team and the

792
00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:23.320
<v Speaker 2>female man. They the females were as respected, if not

793
00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:26.119
<v Speaker 2>more so, for doing the stunts and because I guess

794
00:39:26.159 --> 00:39:27.559
<v Speaker 2>I don'tn't know why, but it was.

795
00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:29.320
<v Speaker 4>But the stunt people.

796
00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:33.159
<v Speaker 2>I've never met a stunt person who wasn't twisted and

797
00:39:33.199 --> 00:39:35.519
<v Speaker 2>weird it whacked out in their heads somewhere in the best,

798
00:39:35.559 --> 00:39:37.760
<v Speaker 2>most beautiful way possible, because.

799
00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:40.559
<v Speaker 3>This is you get it. It's just like being an entrepreneur.

800
00:39:40.679 --> 00:39:42.920
<v Speaker 3>You have to be you have to bet something wired.

801
00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:45.320
<v Speaker 2>You gotta be wired differently because this is this is

802
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:48.000
<v Speaker 2>this is a conversation as a director to a stunt

803
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:51.840
<v Speaker 2>person and or stunt coordinator. I'll go, hey, okay, I'll

804
00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:56.360
<v Speaker 2>need you to jump off that ten foot beam. They're like, great,

805
00:39:56.639 --> 00:40:00.239
<v Speaker 2>can I do the forty foot beam instead? We'll be

806
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:06.519
<v Speaker 2>right back after a word from our sponsor, and now

807
00:40:06.639 --> 00:40:11.199
<v Speaker 2>back to the show. Every time, every time I need

808
00:40:11.239 --> 00:40:13.400
<v Speaker 2>you to do one flip, can I do two flips

809
00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:16.639
<v Speaker 2>and crash into the like they always are amping it

810
00:40:16.760 --> 00:40:17.760
<v Speaker 2>up to a place and I'm like, the.

811
00:40:18.719 --> 00:40:19.440
<v Speaker 3>More to the screen.

812
00:40:19.719 --> 00:40:21.800
<v Speaker 2>They want to But that's that the beauty of the

813
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:24.719
<v Speaker 2>stuff of the stunt community. They always want to just

814
00:40:25.039 --> 00:40:27.519
<v Speaker 2>and then sometimes us as directors and producer are like, nah, dude,

815
00:40:27.559 --> 00:40:30.039
<v Speaker 2>you're not jumping off the fifty story building. I know

816
00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:32.360
<v Speaker 2>you want to, we don't have the budget, Like no, no, no,

817
00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:33.760
<v Speaker 2>I was kidding it and this is and then they'll

818
00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:35.559
<v Speaker 2>always just like, no, no, I got a boy who's

819
00:40:35.559 --> 00:40:37.440
<v Speaker 2>got the rig and the thing, and we could do that,

820
00:40:37.480 --> 00:40:38.719
<v Speaker 2>and we could do that. I just want it for

821
00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:41.639
<v Speaker 2>my reel and I'm like, okay, dude, just it's wonderful.

822
00:40:41.679 --> 00:40:44.320
<v Speaker 2>It's it's absolutely wonderful. I love I love I love

823
00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:45.360
<v Speaker 2>my grips, I love.

824
00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:45.920
<v Speaker 4>My stunt teams.

825
00:40:46.960 --> 00:40:50.280
<v Speaker 2>But there's like I have to ask you though, Okay,

826
00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:52.559
<v Speaker 2>So look, a lot of a lot of people listening now,

827
00:40:53.559 --> 00:40:56.280
<v Speaker 2>A lot of people are young filmmakers coming up. Some

828
00:40:56.320 --> 00:40:58.199
<v Speaker 2>of them are in film school, some of them are

829
00:40:58.199 --> 00:41:03.239
<v Speaker 2>teenagers thinking about coming into the business. I put myself

830
00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:06.119
<v Speaker 2>back into that mindset of where I was in that

831
00:41:06.199 --> 00:41:08.760
<v Speaker 2>production company when I was coming up.

832
00:41:10.599 --> 00:41:11.559
<v Speaker 4>What do you do?

833
00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:17.320
<v Speaker 2>Because if you call it out or if you report

834
00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:19.440
<v Speaker 2>it or something, and this is the reality of what

835
00:41:19.480 --> 00:41:22.159
<v Speaker 2>we do. If you are called out as someone who

836
00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:25.039
<v Speaker 2>just calls it out or reports it or creates problems,

837
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:29.039
<v Speaker 2>chances are that other production companies, other people in that

838
00:41:29.119 --> 00:41:30.960
<v Speaker 2>area might hear about them like, oh, we don't want

839
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:33.280
<v Speaker 2>that person because they're a problem. And that's happened. I've

840
00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:36.039
<v Speaker 2>seen that happen. It's not right, but I've seen it happen.

841
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:40.199
<v Speaker 2>So what are the options in your opinion for you know,

842
00:41:41.119 --> 00:41:43.159
<v Speaker 2>what do you do because you are in such a

843
00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:46.639
<v Speaker 2>powerless situation because you want something that they want, so

844
00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:48.880
<v Speaker 2>unless you go off and do it yourself like you did.

845
00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:53.840
<v Speaker 3>I just feel like we're living in a time right now, Yeah,

846
00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:59.760
<v Speaker 3>right now, and Black Lives Matter, George Floyd, Me Too movement,

847
00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:04.000
<v Speaker 3>all the stuff, even going back to Occupy Wall Street,

848
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:07.400
<v Speaker 3>like we're living in an era Arab's Spring, Like all

849
00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:11.599
<v Speaker 3>of this is happening right in the last decade. And

850
00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:14.800
<v Speaker 3>I feel that COVID has been this amazing line in

851
00:42:14.920 --> 00:42:18.440
<v Speaker 3>history of a lot of people saying it's now or

852
00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:20.559
<v Speaker 3>never to make the changes we need to make. And

853
00:42:20.559 --> 00:42:22.440
<v Speaker 3>I got to tell you, like I'm involved with a

854
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:25.920
<v Speaker 3>lot of those changes. Like really looking at how this

855
00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:29.920
<v Speaker 3>white CEO of a very white company in a very

856
00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:36.639
<v Speaker 3>white town is working at anti block racism, Like okay, well,

857
00:42:36.639 --> 00:42:40.360
<v Speaker 3>how does that relate to your market? Well, we got

858
00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:42.440
<v Speaker 3>to figure it out. You know, like ten years ago

859
00:42:42.480 --> 00:42:44.480
<v Speaker 3>we wouldn't be talking like that, but we are now,

860
00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:49.159
<v Speaker 3>I say, the business community, which is really exciting. I

861
00:42:49.239 --> 00:42:54.239
<v Speaker 3>feel like in markets like in our market, Atlantic Canada,

862
00:42:54.920 --> 00:42:59.400
<v Speaker 3>where the union isn't that strong. It's strong in Nova Scotia,

863
00:42:59.440 --> 00:43:03.480
<v Speaker 3>but not here. The union wants to grow, right I

864
00:43:03.519 --> 00:43:06.280
<v Speaker 3>actually wants to grow. And so there's a little bit

865
00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:09.679
<v Speaker 3>of influence in the non centralized markets to say, hey,

866
00:43:10.159 --> 00:43:13.559
<v Speaker 3>happy to join the union, but what what what's the

867
00:43:13.599 --> 00:43:18.760
<v Speaker 3>true repercussions of call and shout out? You know, like

868
00:43:18.800 --> 00:43:21.039
<v Speaker 3>I think there's an opportunity right now to be bold

869
00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:22.760
<v Speaker 3>and if the union is doing what the union is

870
00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:27.920
<v Speaker 3>supposed to do, you're waiting for your you're up next.

871
00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:33.960
<v Speaker 3>So theoretically you shouldn't be losing your opportunity because you are,

872
00:43:34.519 --> 00:43:37.280
<v Speaker 3>you know, following protocol because as we know, there's always

873
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:39.280
<v Speaker 3>a union rep on site. The problem is what if

874
00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:43.840
<v Speaker 3>that union rep is the bully? Very possible, right, So anyway,

875
00:43:43.599 --> 00:43:46.239
<v Speaker 3>my my sign of hope is as you join. If

876
00:43:46.280 --> 00:43:49.400
<v Speaker 3>you're joining the union, I think it's really your opportunity

877
00:43:49.400 --> 00:43:53.679
<v Speaker 3>to become a leader yourself within it and and letting

878
00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:57.519
<v Speaker 3>other crew members, understand your perspective of wanting to be

879
00:43:57.559 --> 00:44:01.679
<v Speaker 3>treated fairly and with that's it, and you'll work your

880
00:44:01.719 --> 00:44:06.639
<v Speaker 3>ass off to do it. So that's one thing. Another

881
00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:09.239
<v Speaker 3>thing which is my approach, and this only works for

882
00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:12.679
<v Speaker 3>people who've got the uh, you know, the ability to

883
00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:14.880
<v Speaker 3>start their own businesses and I make their own thing.

884
00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:18.840
<v Speaker 3>But I feel like what I did was I created

885
00:44:19.239 --> 00:44:23.280
<v Speaker 3>a new company called Hemming's House and we do TV shows,

886
00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:26.639
<v Speaker 3>documentaries and a lot of commercial, brand brand film work too.

887
00:44:27.199 --> 00:44:32.360
<v Speaker 3>And I've created a set culture, a filmmaking culture that's

888
00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:35.119
<v Speaker 3>that you can thrive and be safe. And we've had

889
00:44:35.119 --> 00:44:38.519
<v Speaker 3>a few mishaps and we dealt with it appropriately, and

890
00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:42.400
<v Speaker 3>we've we've changed the culture of of this this this

891
00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:46.360
<v Speaker 3>world here. So if you're starting out okay, and you

892
00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:49.000
<v Speaker 3>think the only way to get in is by joining

893
00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:51.159
<v Speaker 3>the union, getting on the big future sets, why not

894
00:44:51.320 --> 00:44:56.480
<v Speaker 3>consider finding another company that's small like ours, right, really

895
00:44:56.559 --> 00:45:00.159
<v Speaker 3>learning your trade really well in a good culture, small company.

896
00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:02.599
<v Speaker 3>And sure it's not you're not working with the big

897
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:05.119
<v Speaker 3>actors and the big producers and all this sort of thing,

898
00:45:05.480 --> 00:45:09.440
<v Speaker 3>but you're cutting your teeth in the process, and you're

899
00:45:09.519 --> 00:45:14.079
<v Speaker 3>understanding how people should be treated now it takes time

900
00:45:14.079 --> 00:45:19.000
<v Speaker 3>to do that, of course, but consider going into smaller

901
00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:23.119
<v Speaker 3>areas to really get your first your first uh, because

902
00:45:23.159 --> 00:45:26.360
<v Speaker 3>if you think that that bullshit culture is the way

903
00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:29.679
<v Speaker 3>it should be, because your first experience in is like, oh,

904
00:45:29.800 --> 00:45:31.760
<v Speaker 3>this must be the way it is, okay, And if

905
00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:35.039
<v Speaker 3>you accept that, you will also probably adopt it unless

906
00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:38.760
<v Speaker 3>you're a rebel, uh, you know, and even if you're

907
00:45:38.760 --> 00:45:41.480
<v Speaker 3>a really good person, respectful yourself, you're gonna adopt it

908
00:45:41.480 --> 00:45:42.960
<v Speaker 3>and you're not gonna call it out when your colleagues

909
00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:45.719
<v Speaker 3>do it to other people because it's but it's the

910
00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:48.440
<v Speaker 3>status quote. But why we're creative people. We shouldn't be

911
00:45:48.960 --> 00:45:51.719
<v Speaker 3>we shouldn't be living with the status quote. We need

912
00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:54.039
<v Speaker 3>to be pushing it. And you know what sad to

913
00:45:54.079 --> 00:45:59.119
<v Speaker 3>say for some people, that old way of doing it

914
00:45:59.559 --> 00:46:04.360
<v Speaker 3>is become archaic and unrelevant. So give the industry ten

915
00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:07.800
<v Speaker 3>more years those old you know, I'm going to generalize here,

916
00:46:08.199 --> 00:46:10.760
<v Speaker 3>the old guys that are whipping c stands and and

917
00:46:11.719 --> 00:46:14.719
<v Speaker 3>abusing other people in the culture. If you are like that, now,

918
00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:17.960
<v Speaker 3>you just wait until the till the younger producers are

919
00:46:18.119 --> 00:46:20.360
<v Speaker 3>growing up that are have been you know, brought up

920
00:46:20.360 --> 00:46:23.440
<v Speaker 3>in a world where we are discussing ways to be

921
00:46:23.480 --> 00:46:25.960
<v Speaker 3>respectful on set and in business, you're not going to

922
00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:28.960
<v Speaker 3>get hired, you know, it's just And then once the

923
00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:32.119
<v Speaker 3>union bosses become the ones who are have a little

924
00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:35.639
<v Speaker 3>bit more conscience and understand how sets need to be.

925
00:46:36.199 --> 00:46:38.719
<v Speaker 3>And you know, I think the union, I think about it.

926
00:46:38.719 --> 00:46:40.480
<v Speaker 3>I actually because I was a union I was in,

927
00:46:41.320 --> 00:46:43.559
<v Speaker 3>it has the opportunity to actually lead the change. I

928
00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:46.039
<v Speaker 3>don't know how long that would take. It's a big beast, right,

929
00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:50.880
<v Speaker 3>but the union could be the solution if enough people

930
00:46:50.960 --> 00:46:54.280
<v Speaker 3>had the nerve to chip away at it, you know.

931
00:46:54.760 --> 00:46:57.639
<v Speaker 3>So anyway, those are a couple of my my ideas.

932
00:46:57.679 --> 00:47:00.199
<v Speaker 3>And by the way, not all film sets and and

933
00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:04.440
<v Speaker 3>experiences are are awful. Like there's no absolutely respectful sets.

934
00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:08.400
<v Speaker 3>I just personally, it was on a lot of buh

935
00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:10.079
<v Speaker 3>B films, a lot.

936
00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:12.920
<v Speaker 2>Of lower budget No, the lower the budget a lot

937
00:47:12.920 --> 00:47:15.119
<v Speaker 2>of time, the lower the budget, the less professionalism there is,

938
00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:17.840
<v Speaker 2>and the and the less and and the less experience

939
00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:20.639
<v Speaker 2>there is. And there's a lot more ego involved and

940
00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:24.519
<v Speaker 2>a lot more in security involved and all of that stuff.

941
00:47:24.679 --> 00:47:27.920
<v Speaker 3>Climbers got the climbers who will climb at any right,

942
00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:30.519
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, yeah, so got to be aware of that,

943
00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:33.880
<v Speaker 3>and that's why I guess that's my advice. And the

944
00:47:33.920 --> 00:47:38.039
<v Speaker 3>other thing is to not take it personally, you know,

945
00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:39.719
<v Speaker 3>uh must but do something.

946
00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:40.519
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

947
00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:44.920
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, I agree with the person because you're you're your

948
00:47:45.159 --> 00:47:46.800
<v Speaker 3>key grip told you your piece of drunk. You know.

949
00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:49.559
<v Speaker 4>That's yeah, I know.

950
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:52.639
<v Speaker 2>And I think that with with what's going on, what's

951
00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:55.199
<v Speaker 2>got root and what happened with Harvey Weinstein, if these

952
00:47:55.320 --> 00:48:00.079
<v Speaker 2>kind of you know, juggernauts in our industry can be

953
00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:04.760
<v Speaker 2>taken out, there's hope for the rest, for the rest

954
00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:06.800
<v Speaker 2>of the people. Go wait a minute, there is opportunity

955
00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:11.559
<v Speaker 2>here to get for change. There is opportunity that people

956
00:48:11.559 --> 00:48:14.480
<v Speaker 2>are gonna take me seriously if something happens, because I mean, look,

957
00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:18.280
<v Speaker 2>you're talking about Oscar winning massive guys worth billions, like

958
00:48:18.480 --> 00:48:21.599
<v Speaker 2>Who've generated billions of dollars for the industry, and all

959
00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:25.119
<v Speaker 2>of a sudden, just you're gone, like Scott Ruden is gone,

960
00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:30.039
<v Speaker 2>Brett Ratner gone, Brian Singer gone, Kevin Spacey gone, They're gone,

961
00:48:30.719 --> 00:48:33.440
<v Speaker 2>And there was a you know, I remember, I remember

962
00:48:33.559 --> 00:48:36.719
<v Speaker 2>when I was running when I wrote my first book,

963
00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:39.159
<v Speaker 2>Shooting for the Mob, which is my experience of the

964
00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:43.480
<v Speaker 2>ultimate abuse, which is an ultimate of physical not sexual,

965
00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:46.519
<v Speaker 2>but physical abuse and psychological abuse. I think in my

966
00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:49.880
<v Speaker 2>world at least of a mobster threatening me on a

967
00:48:49.960 --> 00:48:52.079
<v Speaker 2>daily basis while I'm chasing my dream and meeting all

968
00:48:52.079 --> 00:48:54.760
<v Speaker 2>these big high profile directors and that and producers and

969
00:48:54.800 --> 00:48:57.519
<v Speaker 2>actors and stuff like that. Going through that journey. I

970
00:48:58.559 --> 00:49:03.400
<v Speaker 2>heard about the stories when Me Too happened.

971
00:49:03.440 --> 00:49:04.440
<v Speaker 4>This was really funny.

972
00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:06.840
<v Speaker 2>When Me Too happened, my buddies would call me up

973
00:49:06.840 --> 00:49:08.519
<v Speaker 2>in the industry, like, who do you think is gonna happen?

974
00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:10.239
<v Speaker 4>Who do you think is going to happen to next?

975
00:49:10.639 --> 00:49:14.000
<v Speaker 2>And I go, oh, it's gonna be Brett Ratner, It's

976
00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:15.159
<v Speaker 2>going to be Brian Singer, It's going to.

977
00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:15.800
<v Speaker 3>Be Kevin Spacey.

978
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:16.679
<v Speaker 4>And they're like, how do you know.

979
00:49:16.719 --> 00:49:18.679
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, on two thousand and one, I'll tell you

980
00:49:18.679 --> 00:49:20.719
<v Speaker 2>the stories. So when I was running around in two

981
00:49:20.719 --> 00:49:23.599
<v Speaker 2>thousand and one, I remember we were going to meet

982
00:49:23.639 --> 00:49:27.480
<v Speaker 2>with Kevin Spacey's people and in Kevin Spacey and this

983
00:49:27.599 --> 00:49:29.719
<v Speaker 2>is like literally I was meeting all the big stars

984
00:49:29.760 --> 00:49:33.719
<v Speaker 2>in town at twenty six, working with this mobster and

985
00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:36.840
<v Speaker 2>making this movie about his life. So it's screat By

986
00:49:36.840 --> 00:49:40.159
<v Speaker 2>the way, anyone who hasn't read that story, please I will.

987
00:49:40.480 --> 00:49:43.559
<v Speaker 2>It's a fascinating and listen to the audiobook. It's even

988
00:49:43.559 --> 00:49:47.480
<v Speaker 2>better because it's me doing voices and it's hilarious. So

989
00:49:48.519 --> 00:49:51.320
<v Speaker 2>I go the agent at the time, agent or manager

990
00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:53.639
<v Speaker 2>or representative of some sort. They go, listen, when you

991
00:49:53.679 --> 00:49:58.000
<v Speaker 2>meet Kevin, understand that he just likes to grab guys

992
00:49:58.039 --> 00:49:59.559
<v Speaker 2>balls when they first meet him.

993
00:49:59.559 --> 00:50:00.239
<v Speaker 4>It's a handhe.

994
00:50:01.880 --> 00:50:04.360
<v Speaker 2>We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

995
00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:13.679
<v Speaker 2>and now back to the show. What And I was like,

996
00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:16.480
<v Speaker 2>I was twenty six, I'd already been in the business

997
00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:19.880
<v Speaker 2>a while, I've been directing a bit already, and I

998
00:50:20.320 --> 00:50:23.400
<v Speaker 2>was just like, I was like, is this real?

999
00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:26.199
<v Speaker 4>And it's not like Kevin was in the other room.

1000
00:50:26.280 --> 00:50:28.760
<v Speaker 2>This is like we were setting up the meeting and

1001
00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:31.920
<v Speaker 2>my mobster guys, if that guy grabs my balls, I'm.

1002
00:50:31.800 --> 00:50:33.559
<v Speaker 4>Going to kill him. And that was the end of

1003
00:50:33.559 --> 00:50:33.920
<v Speaker 4>the meeting.

1004
00:50:34.119 --> 00:50:36.000
<v Speaker 2>And that was the end of the potential of working

1005
00:50:36.039 --> 00:50:38.559
<v Speaker 2>with Kevin Spacey. But then we heard stories about Brian Singer.

1006
00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:42.599
<v Speaker 2>I've heard many stories about Brett Ratner. He's legendary in

1007
00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:47.159
<v Speaker 2>that sense. So I saw all of this coming and

1008
00:50:47.159 --> 00:50:48.639
<v Speaker 2>and then I'd call it like five days later and

1009
00:50:48.679 --> 00:50:51.280
<v Speaker 2>like they got Kevin Spacey, like, how'd you know? I'm like, dude, dude,

1010
00:50:51.320 --> 00:50:53.679
<v Speaker 2>It's just And the funny thing is that everybody in

1011
00:50:53.719 --> 00:50:57.599
<v Speaker 2>the business knows. Everyone knew that Harvey win Stein was

1012
00:50:57.599 --> 00:50:59.880
<v Speaker 2>a bully. Many people in the business knew that he

1013
00:50:59.920 --> 00:51:01.679
<v Speaker 2>was doing what he was doing. A lot of people

1014
00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:04.440
<v Speaker 2>knew what Scott Ruden is and who he was and

1015
00:51:04.519 --> 00:51:07.000
<v Speaker 2>how he did business. And there's a lot of other

1016
00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:10.440
<v Speaker 2>producers and directors out there who are are are shaking

1017
00:51:10.480 --> 00:51:14.280
<v Speaker 2>in their boots because like, oh man, I'm screwed.

1018
00:51:14.599 --> 00:51:17.320
<v Speaker 4>I mean, you know who Joe Picka is, right, yep.

1019
00:51:18.360 --> 00:51:24.079
<v Speaker 2>Everybody, even me, the puny pa in Miami, heard about

1020
00:51:24.119 --> 00:51:26.719
<v Speaker 2>Pika stories. Joe Pitka was one of the most successful

1021
00:51:26.760 --> 00:51:28.119
<v Speaker 2>and I'm not sure if he's still doing it or not,

1022
00:51:28.280 --> 00:51:30.639
<v Speaker 2>but was one of the most successful commercial.

1023
00:51:30.159 --> 00:51:32.159
<v Speaker 4>Directors in history.

1024
00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:36.400
<v Speaker 2>He directed space Jam the movie because he did all

1025
00:51:36.440 --> 00:51:38.559
<v Speaker 2>Michael Jordan thinks he was the Nike stuff. He was

1026
00:51:38.599 --> 00:51:41.760
<v Speaker 2>a huge director, but his stories were legendary of the

1027
00:51:41.800 --> 00:51:46.079
<v Speaker 2>abuse that he would put his cast the agency. He

1028
00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:48.480
<v Speaker 2>would break people's arms playing basketball because he was a

1029
00:51:48.519 --> 00:51:53.480
<v Speaker 2>really big, like six foot four, you know, imposing figure, and.

1030
00:51:53.440 --> 00:51:54.360
<v Speaker 4>I would hear, you would hear.

1031
00:51:54.400 --> 00:51:56.679
<v Speaker 2>And that's like the that was like the Boogeyman on

1032
00:51:56.719 --> 00:51:58.480
<v Speaker 2>some of these commercial sets.

1033
00:51:58.159 --> 00:52:00.639
<v Speaker 4>Like Joe Pitka's Gonna Get You. It was like, you

1034
00:52:00.679 --> 00:52:01.159
<v Speaker 4>work with JR.

1035
00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:03.159
<v Speaker 2>Picka, and like the group was like, yeah, I work

1036
00:52:03.199 --> 00:52:05.320
<v Speaker 2>with Joe Picka. He had me running, He had me

1037
00:52:05.400 --> 00:52:06.199
<v Speaker 2>running in the desert.

1038
00:52:06.239 --> 00:52:07.280
<v Speaker 4>I almost died of thirst.

1039
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:10.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm like Jesus Christ, how did this man do it?

1040
00:52:10.519 --> 00:52:13.679
<v Speaker 4>But that was the business. That was the way things

1041
00:52:13.719 --> 00:52:14.079
<v Speaker 4>were done.

1042
00:52:14.159 --> 00:52:19.440
<v Speaker 3>So consider a considerable world, in a world where water.

1043
00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:20.360
<v Speaker 4>Is wet and ice is cold.

1044
00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:23.280
<v Speaker 3>I'm not speaking to try to sound like I'm any

1045
00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:26.519
<v Speaker 3>more woke than anybody else, but consider a world where

1046
00:52:26.840 --> 00:52:31.039
<v Speaker 3>movie sets are more so run by women and people

1047
00:52:31.039 --> 00:52:33.119
<v Speaker 3>of color. Let's just consider that for a second. And

1048
00:52:33.199 --> 00:52:36.039
<v Speaker 3>trust me, there's lots of bullies in those two communities

1049
00:52:36.079 --> 00:52:39.159
<v Speaker 3>as well. There is, I'm I'm not pretending there isn't,

1050
00:52:40.599 --> 00:52:45.639
<v Speaker 3>but breaking that paradigm, that that that power shift. In

1051
00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:54.800
<v Speaker 3>typical cases, women run projects differently, you know, absolutely, And

1052
00:52:54.920 --> 00:52:57.920
<v Speaker 3>like he's thinking about the oscars now, finally starting to

1053
00:52:58.280 --> 00:53:00.840
<v Speaker 3>give the nods to the you know, at least they're

1054
00:53:00.840 --> 00:53:03.639
<v Speaker 3>coming to the table right, And are we going to

1055
00:53:03.719 --> 00:53:06.599
<v Speaker 3>see that every year more and more and more women

1056
00:53:06.719 --> 00:53:10.840
<v Speaker 3>and people of color starting to rock the scene. And

1057
00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:13.239
<v Speaker 3>what's going to happen to all these these these luddites

1058
00:53:13.440 --> 00:53:17.079
<v Speaker 3>if you will like there, if they're all driven by ego,

1059
00:53:17.840 --> 00:53:19.880
<v Speaker 3>it's going to crush them to know they're not going

1060
00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:21.920
<v Speaker 3>to be relevant anymore. We think about that whole cancel

1061
00:53:21.960 --> 00:53:24.760
<v Speaker 3>culture thing, but it probably sucks to be Kevin's spacey

1062
00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:27.079
<v Speaker 3>to be canceled. You are no longer relevant in our

1063
00:53:27.119 --> 00:53:30.679
<v Speaker 3>pop culture. Thank You're done about it, You're done. So

1064
00:53:31.519 --> 00:53:35.519
<v Speaker 3>I just I'm excited to see more diversity in our space.

1065
00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:38.519
<v Speaker 3>You know, coming from a very very white guy right here,

1066
00:53:39.400 --> 00:53:42.480
<v Speaker 3>but it excites me to know how the seismic shift

1067
00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:44.719
<v Speaker 3>that we will be able to see in all forms

1068
00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:47.679
<v Speaker 3>of this industry, as you know, as the old way

1069
00:53:47.719 --> 00:53:49.760
<v Speaker 3>starts to be hospiced out.

1070
00:53:49.960 --> 00:53:52.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And the funny thing is, thinking back on my

1071
00:53:53.000 --> 00:53:57.519
<v Speaker 2>commercial sets, I almost exclusively used women producers and it

1072
00:53:57.599 --> 00:53:59.360
<v Speaker 2>was weird. I didn't even think about that, But I've

1073
00:53:59.400 --> 00:54:02.440
<v Speaker 2>always been just drawn to women producers. I just like

1074
00:54:02.519 --> 00:54:04.320
<v Speaker 2>the way that they not that there's I've had men

1075
00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:07.679
<v Speaker 2>producers as well, obviously, but I did a majority of

1076
00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:09.639
<v Speaker 2>my commercial work were I always worked with the same

1077
00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:13.840
<v Speaker 2>women producers because they ran sets differently. It was a

1078
00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:16.960
<v Speaker 2>different energy about them, and I just I just identified

1079
00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:19.960
<v Speaker 2>with that kind of energy a lot more, uh sometimes,

1080
00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:22.480
<v Speaker 2>and I've kind I've had wonderful experiences with you know,

1081
00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:27.760
<v Speaker 2>white white men producers and African American producers and Latino producers.

1082
00:54:27.800 --> 00:54:30.159
<v Speaker 3>But you're bringing people to the table. That's the thing.

1083
00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:34.400
<v Speaker 3>It's not about canceling white white male talent.

1084
00:54:34.599 --> 00:54:35.599
<v Speaker 4>It's no, of course not.

1085
00:54:35.960 --> 00:54:39.159
<v Speaker 3>It's like, let's let's let's have it much more round it.

1086
00:54:39.679 --> 00:54:43.199
<v Speaker 3>My company, we've got uh, most of our producers are

1087
00:54:43.239 --> 00:54:48.320
<v Speaker 3>are are women. I'm going through uh some diversity training

1088
00:54:48.440 --> 00:54:51.159
<v Speaker 3>right now as we speak, uh with that really cool

1089
00:54:51.199 --> 00:54:57.000
<v Speaker 3>company out of California called Hella uh Impact, and uh

1090
00:54:57.480 --> 00:55:00.000
<v Speaker 3>they're going through this Jedi training, which sounds so cool.

1091
00:55:00.039 --> 00:55:03.280
<v Speaker 3>Well as I SEEO behind you, Jedi for justice, equity,

1092
00:55:03.280 --> 00:55:06.960
<v Speaker 3>diversity and inclusion in the in the context of leading business,

1093
00:55:07.119 --> 00:55:08.840
<v Speaker 3>you know, and we talk about this at the beginning,

1094
00:55:09.239 --> 00:55:12.519
<v Speaker 3>and it's just really cool to uh, you know, to

1095
00:55:12.559 --> 00:55:15.000
<v Speaker 3>be able to check our our you know, check my

1096
00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:17.440
<v Speaker 3>white privilege if you will, on the back on the

1097
00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:19.960
<v Speaker 3>back burner, for a second and realize that we've been

1098
00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:25.400
<v Speaker 3>successful as a result of incredibly in just systems, including

1099
00:55:25.559 --> 00:55:29.159
<v Speaker 3>racist systems. And uh, I'm learning all this stuff, you know,

1100
00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:32.440
<v Speaker 3>and which means I'm really really excited to now that

1101
00:55:32.480 --> 00:55:35.239
<v Speaker 3>we do have over gender parody. Like at my company,

1102
00:55:35.320 --> 00:55:38.719
<v Speaker 3>there's more women than men, but most of the crews guys.

1103
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:43.039
<v Speaker 3>And I'm really excited to start getting more women into

1104
00:55:43.079 --> 00:55:45.840
<v Speaker 3>the training system in the crew side and the camera departments, grips,

1105
00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:50.639
<v Speaker 3>et cetera. And also people of color as we as

1106
00:55:50.639 --> 00:55:53.960
<v Speaker 3>we as we diversify and and really hack the system

1107
00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:57.400
<v Speaker 3>and see and prove that we can actually build a

1108
00:55:57.440 --> 00:56:01.599
<v Speaker 3>great storytelling company. Uh that's in the mold of what

1109
00:56:01.679 --> 00:56:03.360
<v Speaker 3>you and I have been complaining about for the last hour.

1110
00:56:03.960 --> 00:56:04.400
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

1111
00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:07.400
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, And I've you know, anytime I have a chance

1112
00:56:07.400 --> 00:56:11.000
<v Speaker 2>to have a female director on to to talk about

1113
00:56:11.039 --> 00:56:12.639
<v Speaker 2>their process and what they've gone through. I had a

1114
00:56:12.679 --> 00:56:17.840
<v Speaker 2>wonderful author and female director named Naomi Jones McDougall Jones,

1115
00:56:17.920 --> 00:56:20.239
<v Speaker 2>who wrote a book all about women in Hollywood. Wrote

1116
00:56:20.239 --> 00:56:24.480
<v Speaker 2>the book about how they are treated, the numbers, the stats,

1117
00:56:24.599 --> 00:56:28.840
<v Speaker 2>who's it was fascinating conversation. But you know, and again

1118
00:56:28.880 --> 00:56:32.679
<v Speaker 2>everyone listening it's not about cancel culture. It's not about

1119
00:56:32.760 --> 00:56:35.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, just throwing people away. It's about trying to

1120
00:56:35.880 --> 00:56:39.559
<v Speaker 2>open open up the idea, the the inclusion of everybody's ideas.

1121
00:56:39.840 --> 00:56:44.079
<v Speaker 2>You know, the white male or the male story perspective

1122
00:56:44.119 --> 00:56:47.000
<v Speaker 2>is not the only one, uh, and bringing all of

1123
00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:49.519
<v Speaker 2>those kind of people to the table, it just makes

1124
00:56:50.159 --> 00:56:53.559
<v Speaker 2>it's it's like only cooking with pepper and salt, and

1125
00:56:53.599 --> 00:56:54.480
<v Speaker 2>that's all you cook with.

1126
00:56:54.559 --> 00:56:55.840
<v Speaker 4>There's so many other.

1127
00:56:55.719 --> 00:57:00.840
<v Speaker 2>Spices and there's any other spices that you could throw

1128
00:57:00.920 --> 00:57:03.119
<v Speaker 2>in that make it a lot more flavorful and a

1129
00:57:03.920 --> 00:57:07.440
<v Speaker 2>lot better in so many ways. But you know, we

1130
00:57:07.480 --> 00:57:11.199
<v Speaker 2>started this conversation as what can we do to change

1131
00:57:11.199 --> 00:57:16.400
<v Speaker 2>this abuse culture that is ingrained in our business has

1132
00:57:16.480 --> 00:57:19.360
<v Speaker 2>been for decades. I think it started that way. Yeah,

1133
00:57:19.360 --> 00:57:22.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure was that way from the days of Chaplain.

1134
00:57:22.840 --> 00:57:24.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, when anytime you have people in power, there's

1135
00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:30.199
<v Speaker 2>always abuse, always any place, any place, any the industry,

1136
00:57:29.960 --> 00:57:33.199
<v Speaker 2>any society. If you have somebody in power and someone

1137
00:57:33.239 --> 00:57:35.519
<v Speaker 2>that's not in power, there is always abuse.

1138
00:57:35.599 --> 00:57:37.719
<v Speaker 4>Unfortunately, that as part of the human condition, that is

1139
00:57:37.920 --> 00:57:38.440
<v Speaker 4>part of it is.

1140
00:57:38.480 --> 00:57:41.199
<v Speaker 2>But now we're hopefully changing that at least within our

1141
00:57:41.239 --> 00:57:45.000
<v Speaker 2>sets and Hopefully you guys listening now, especially if you're

1142
00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:48.599
<v Speaker 2>young and coming up, understand that there are options and

1143
00:57:48.920 --> 00:57:51.400
<v Speaker 2>you have opportunities. And I think you would agree they

1144
00:57:51.440 --> 00:57:54.480
<v Speaker 2>have kids coming up today have opportunities that you and

1145
00:57:54.519 --> 00:57:57.280
<v Speaker 2>I did not have, like being able to buy your

1146
00:57:57.280 --> 00:58:00.400
<v Speaker 2>own gear, being able to start your ownroduction comp at

1147
00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:04.440
<v Speaker 2>twenty one and just start shooting music videos or shooting docs,

1148
00:58:04.599 --> 00:58:07.119
<v Speaker 2>or just going out there and making content or building

1149
00:58:07.159 --> 00:58:10.199
<v Speaker 2>up online presence, like none of that existed for us.

1150
00:58:10.239 --> 00:58:13.199
<v Speaker 2>We had to go through this system and navigate it.

1151
00:58:13.360 --> 00:58:16.199
<v Speaker 2>There are options now for people like yourself, like you're like,

1152
00:58:16.199 --> 00:58:17.280
<v Speaker 2>you know what, I'm gonna screw it. I'm going to

1153
00:58:17.320 --> 00:58:19.599
<v Speaker 2>make my own company, and you can do it, and

1154
00:58:19.639 --> 00:58:22.199
<v Speaker 2>you could do it anywhere in the world that you're

1155
00:58:22.239 --> 00:58:22.800
<v Speaker 2>listening from.

1156
00:58:22.880 --> 00:58:25.159
<v Speaker 4>So I appreciate you coming on the show.

1157
00:58:25.159 --> 00:58:26.519
<v Speaker 2>Brother. I'm going to ask you a couple questions. I

1158
00:58:26.599 --> 00:58:30.199
<v Speaker 2>ask all of my guests, what advice would you give

1159
00:58:30.239 --> 00:58:32.920
<v Speaker 2>a filmmaker trying to break into the business today.

1160
00:58:35.119 --> 00:58:37.280
<v Speaker 3>I love that question because I get that question all

1161
00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:40.719
<v Speaker 3>the time your parents. It's funny because in this generation

1162
00:58:40.800 --> 00:58:43.000
<v Speaker 3>of kids, it's never the kids call it call it

1163
00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:45.679
<v Speaker 3>it's sometimes it is and I okay, there's a piece

1164
00:58:45.679 --> 00:58:48.840
<v Speaker 3>of advice right there. Don't get your parents to call

1165
00:58:48.960 --> 00:58:52.519
<v Speaker 3>us to say, hey, what's up. Like in the film industry,

1166
00:58:52.559 --> 00:58:54.360
<v Speaker 3>is it's something that my kid can thrive and they

1167
00:58:54.360 --> 00:58:57.480
<v Speaker 3>want to make a movie. If you're twelve years old

1168
00:58:58.119 --> 00:59:00.960
<v Speaker 3>or eighteen years old, find a way to get in

1169
00:59:00.960 --> 00:59:03.320
<v Speaker 3>touch with a producer or anybody in the place that

1170
00:59:03.360 --> 00:59:05.079
<v Speaker 3>you want to be and just get some time on

1171
00:59:05.119 --> 00:59:07.719
<v Speaker 3>the phone. Most people will be thrilled to speak to you,

1172
00:59:09.159 --> 00:59:12.639
<v Speaker 3>and you can do it yourself. Like you don't listen.

1173
00:59:12.719 --> 00:59:15.960
<v Speaker 3>Nothing against having your parents lobby for you, but I

1174
00:59:15.960 --> 00:59:18.760
<v Speaker 3>think it's a thing. It's almost it's very much an

1175
00:59:18.760 --> 00:59:22.599
<v Speaker 3>eye roller. We want to see initiative, you know, we

1176
00:59:22.639 --> 00:59:25.679
<v Speaker 3>want to see creativity, We want to see a personality, right,

1177
00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:30.559
<v Speaker 3>we want to see respect. Because when you're jumping into

1178
00:59:30.559 --> 00:59:34.400
<v Speaker 3>the into the film industry, certainly the way Alex and

1179
00:59:34.440 --> 00:59:38.519
<v Speaker 3>I have, you're not necessarily being hired for your creative brilliance.

1180
00:59:38.599 --> 00:59:41.760
<v Speaker 3>You're being hired because you can be a really trustworthy,

1181
00:59:42.320 --> 00:59:44.159
<v Speaker 3>reliable cog and wheel.

1182
00:59:44.280 --> 00:59:46.199
<v Speaker 4>And you can very nice.

1183
00:59:46.360 --> 00:59:48.199
<v Speaker 2>By the way, that's a very nice, very nice way

1184
00:59:48.199 --> 00:59:50.119
<v Speaker 2>of saying that cog in the wheel that there's other

1185
00:59:50.159 --> 00:59:56.000
<v Speaker 2>ways that could be mule, donkey, heavy lifters, you know, grunt,

1186
00:59:56.239 --> 00:59:57.440
<v Speaker 2>but the cog and the wheel.

1187
00:59:57.960 --> 00:59:59.800
<v Speaker 3>There's other names that are I'm not going to writ

1188
01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:01.800
<v Speaker 3>because we're done with that culture.

1189
01:00:03.119 --> 01:00:05.639
<v Speaker 2>We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

1190
01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:10.519
<v Speaker 2>and now back to the show.

1191
01:00:13.719 --> 01:00:16.159
<v Speaker 3>If you are if you can work on a farm,

1192
01:00:16.719 --> 01:00:18.960
<v Speaker 3>you can work on a film set. You know. You

1193
01:00:19.039 --> 01:00:21.519
<v Speaker 3>if you can work, if you can join cadets and

1194
01:00:21.519 --> 01:00:24.400
<v Speaker 3>and go, you know, work in the military, you can

1195
01:00:24.480 --> 01:00:26.519
<v Speaker 3>work on a film set. If you work in a

1196
01:00:26.599 --> 01:00:30.000
<v Speaker 3>janitorial uh, at a you know, at a hospital, you

1197
01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:32.840
<v Speaker 3>can work on a film set. Yeah. And so it's

1198
01:00:32.880 --> 01:00:35.599
<v Speaker 3>not about the creative brilliants and producers, aren't They don't

1199
01:00:35.639 --> 01:00:39.840
<v Speaker 3>really care if about your last short film. Uh, they do.

1200
01:00:40.239 --> 01:00:43.480
<v Speaker 3>They want to make sure that you're reliable and that

1201
01:00:43.519 --> 01:00:45.159
<v Speaker 3>you're that you're going to be good for the culture.

1202
01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:48.480
<v Speaker 3>And perhaps that's the hack to get in, you know,

1203
01:00:48.519 --> 01:00:50.760
<v Speaker 3>the hack is, you know, we're living in a new

1204
01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:53.960
<v Speaker 3>generation where there are we're now becoming the old guys now, Alex,

1205
01:00:54.079 --> 01:00:57.920
<v Speaker 3>I hate to say it, where I'm learning so much

1206
01:00:58.159 --> 01:01:01.679
<v Speaker 3>about this new generation my employees and my staff or whatever,

1207
01:01:01.760 --> 01:01:05.079
<v Speaker 3>you know, from young people, and I appreciate learning from

1208
01:01:05.079 --> 01:01:08.599
<v Speaker 3>them because my ego was kicked out of me years ago. Right,

1209
01:01:08.719 --> 01:01:12.400
<v Speaker 3>So I'm a lifelong learner and culture changes, you know,

1210
01:01:12.440 --> 01:01:16.119
<v Speaker 3>And I'm supposedly making documentaries and films that an audience

1211
01:01:16.159 --> 01:01:18.320
<v Speaker 3>wants to see, and I don't understand them at all

1212
01:01:18.320 --> 01:01:20.800
<v Speaker 3>because I decided not to care about their language and

1213
01:01:20.800 --> 01:01:22.199
<v Speaker 3>the way they want to be respected and all this

1214
01:01:22.280 --> 01:01:24.679
<v Speaker 3>sort of thing. So many people make fun of millennials

1215
01:01:24.719 --> 01:01:27.519
<v Speaker 3>and you know, in the next generation, and but you know,

1216
01:01:28.159 --> 01:01:31.039
<v Speaker 3>that's the audience. What are you doing not trying to

1217
01:01:31.119 --> 01:01:34.239
<v Speaker 3>understand their culture or the way they speak and the

1218
01:01:34.280 --> 01:01:37.639
<v Speaker 3>way they want to be spoken to. So you, as

1219
01:01:37.639 --> 01:01:41.519
<v Speaker 3>a young person can actually come in and find those

1220
01:01:41.639 --> 01:01:44.760
<v Speaker 3>right bosses if you will and say this, I want

1221
01:01:44.800 --> 01:01:49.280
<v Speaker 3>to help you create a culture that is rich, creative, efficient,

1222
01:01:49.760 --> 01:01:53.039
<v Speaker 3>and lean and in a way that's more people like

1223
01:01:53.119 --> 01:01:54.920
<v Speaker 3>me are going to want to come and work for

1224
01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:57.639
<v Speaker 3>your company or work on your sets. And I'm speaking

1225
01:01:57.639 --> 01:01:59.480
<v Speaker 3>in the context of out of the Union, because the

1226
01:01:59.559 --> 01:02:03.000
<v Speaker 3>Union has its own system which is very efficient as well.

1227
01:02:03.079 --> 01:02:04.679
<v Speaker 3>You come into a trainee and then you work your

1228
01:02:04.719 --> 01:02:08.440
<v Speaker 3>way up. Awesome. So if that's if that's what you're

1229
01:02:08.440 --> 01:02:11.039
<v Speaker 3>gonna do, I would say the exact same advice. Find

1230
01:02:11.039 --> 01:02:12.960
<v Speaker 3>someone else's in the union who's been in it for

1231
01:02:13.000 --> 01:02:15.920
<v Speaker 3>a number of years and pick their brain. You know,

1232
01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:19.480
<v Speaker 3>make sure you know what you're getting yourself into. And

1233
01:02:19.519 --> 01:02:22.719
<v Speaker 3>if you're ready, it's be prepared to volunteer a little bit.

1234
01:02:23.679 --> 01:02:25.119
<v Speaker 3>It might not have to be the case, but if

1235
01:02:25.119 --> 01:02:28.360
<v Speaker 3>you're working with smaller companies or even like part of

1236
01:02:28.400 --> 01:02:31.280
<v Speaker 3>a film co op or you know, a short film competition,

1237
01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:34.199
<v Speaker 3>you don't get paid on those, but you get great experience.

1238
01:02:34.599 --> 01:02:37.800
<v Speaker 3>So the more experience you get in film culture as

1239
01:02:37.840 --> 01:02:41.880
<v Speaker 3>far as the mechanism of how it set culture, yeah,

1240
01:02:41.920 --> 01:02:45.199
<v Speaker 3>and set etiquette. And when I was some of my

1241
01:02:45.239 --> 01:02:47.559
<v Speaker 3>early films, I used to stand in front of the

1242
01:02:47.639 --> 01:02:49.800
<v Speaker 3>light and I was the cameras training and I'd stand

1243
01:02:49.880 --> 01:02:52.880
<v Speaker 3>up and I'd be like, hey, guys, you need a lens.

1244
01:02:52.920 --> 01:02:55.880
<v Speaker 3>And so they'd call me a flyboy or something because

1245
01:02:55.880 --> 01:02:57.840
<v Speaker 3>I was like a fly tractor little light all the time.

1246
01:02:58.880 --> 01:03:01.440
<v Speaker 3>Those are things that you learned, said etiquette. Right, if

1247
01:03:01.440 --> 01:03:05.159
<v Speaker 3>someone doesn't tell you, you learned the hard way right.

1248
01:03:05.239 --> 01:03:07.519
<v Speaker 4>Right, and hopefully it's not an abusive way.

1249
01:03:07.639 --> 01:03:09.719
<v Speaker 2>It's hopefully in a fun way, like calling you.

1250
01:03:09.719 --> 01:03:14.559
<v Speaker 3>Fly boy, right and exactly that like talking to people.

1251
01:03:14.800 --> 01:03:16.480
<v Speaker 3>I don't call myself a veteran in that world because

1252
01:03:16.480 --> 01:03:18.840
<v Speaker 3>I only spent a few years in it, but speak

1253
01:03:18.880 --> 01:03:20.719
<v Speaker 3>to veterans and say, hey, what are some of the

1254
01:03:20.760 --> 01:03:23.559
<v Speaker 3>areas I will fail at in my first year? You know,

1255
01:03:24.280 --> 01:03:27.400
<v Speaker 3>that's a good advice. That's good advice to ask, you know,

1256
01:03:27.519 --> 01:03:30.440
<v Speaker 3>and people will like you for that, like if you

1257
01:03:30.559 --> 01:03:33.480
<v Speaker 3>asked a key grip, Hey, I want to get into

1258
01:03:33.519 --> 01:03:36.639
<v Speaker 3>grip in the grip department, But where will I fail?

1259
01:03:37.000 --> 01:03:39.360
<v Speaker 3>And then let me know like some of the hacks

1260
01:03:39.360 --> 01:03:41.880
<v Speaker 3>so I can get around that. And then they're going

1261
01:03:41.920 --> 01:03:43.360
<v Speaker 3>to love the fact that you showed an initiative you

1262
01:03:43.400 --> 01:03:45.280
<v Speaker 3>and ask the question in the first place. Right, long

1263
01:03:45.320 --> 01:03:46.519
<v Speaker 3>answer for you, Alex.

1264
01:03:46.280 --> 01:03:49.679
<v Speaker 2>But fair enough, good answer, great answer, great answer. Now,

1265
01:03:49.760 --> 01:03:51.519
<v Speaker 2>what is the lesson that took you the longest to learn,

1266
01:03:51.519 --> 01:03:53.519
<v Speaker 2>whether in the film business or in life?

1267
01:03:56.000 --> 01:04:00.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, oh so many. One is just really important. Again,

1268
01:04:00.920 --> 01:04:03.519
<v Speaker 3>I'm coming talking right now from the entrepreneur perspective, is

1269
01:04:03.559 --> 01:04:06.760
<v Speaker 3>surrounding yourself by people who are better than you. So

1270
01:04:07.079 --> 01:04:09.400
<v Speaker 3>and this is a really good lesson for directors, for

1271
01:04:09.480 --> 01:04:14.960
<v Speaker 3>aspiring directors and producers. But it's okay if you're a

1272
01:04:15.000 --> 01:04:19.760
<v Speaker 3>director and for you to hire a first a a

1273
01:04:19.880 --> 01:04:23.639
<v Speaker 3>d who is way more experienced than you, and it's

1274
01:04:23.679 --> 01:04:27.199
<v Speaker 3>okay if you have to be the you know, the

1275
01:04:27.280 --> 01:04:31.079
<v Speaker 3>key of a Caaron apartment and you and you're hiring

1276
01:04:31.800 --> 01:04:33.519
<v Speaker 3>other people on your team who are actually way better

1277
01:04:33.599 --> 01:04:37.199
<v Speaker 3>DPS than you. The more people you surround, the more

1278
01:04:37.239 --> 01:04:39.719
<v Speaker 3>you surround yourself with people who are better than you,

1279
01:04:40.159 --> 01:04:42.800
<v Speaker 3>and the and the less ego you've got, less pride,

1280
01:04:43.280 --> 01:04:45.000
<v Speaker 3>the more you're gonna learn, and the and and the

1281
01:04:45.079 --> 01:04:49.039
<v Speaker 3>quicker you're you're gonna thrive if you if you do

1282
01:04:49.079 --> 01:04:51.840
<v Speaker 3>this on your own and try to hack your way

1283
01:04:51.880 --> 01:04:55.119
<v Speaker 3>through being the best on earth, a good chances can fail.

1284
01:04:56.119 --> 01:04:59.880
<v Speaker 3>So I've surrounded myself by way better filmmakers in my company,

1285
01:05:00.159 --> 01:05:03.880
<v Speaker 3>way better dps, way better editors. And I remember when

1286
01:05:03.920 --> 01:05:06.880
<v Speaker 3>it happened, like I was the filmmaker at the beginning

1287
01:05:06.880 --> 01:05:09.360
<v Speaker 3>of the building this company for a good four or

1288
01:05:09.360 --> 01:05:12.039
<v Speaker 3>five years, and then once I realized that my crew

1289
01:05:12.119 --> 01:05:14.320
<v Speaker 3>were becoming because they were doing it all the time

1290
01:05:14.360 --> 01:05:17.039
<v Speaker 3>I was trying to grow a business, and I was like, geez,

1291
01:05:17.079 --> 01:05:18.880
<v Speaker 3>you guys are there now, like you guys are now

1292
01:05:19.840 --> 01:05:22.159
<v Speaker 3>the products you know, and I know it was trippy

1293
01:05:22.199 --> 01:05:24.519
<v Speaker 3>for a minute, and I was like, okay, well and

1294
01:05:24.760 --> 01:05:26.719
<v Speaker 3>a good advice one of my young employees told me.

1295
01:05:27.159 --> 01:05:29.079
<v Speaker 3>I thought was great. He goes, Greg, You're always going

1296
01:05:29.119 --> 01:05:32.639
<v Speaker 3>to be a great creative director, a great filmmaker. But

1297
01:05:32.719 --> 01:05:34.599
<v Speaker 3>what this, this is my my employee is saying this

1298
01:05:34.639 --> 01:05:37.519
<v Speaker 3>to me. What we need from you is to go

1299
01:05:37.559 --> 01:05:39.639
<v Speaker 3>out and do what you're doing, what you're best at,

1300
01:05:39.760 --> 01:05:43.480
<v Speaker 3>which is making friends and selling us more jobs. And

1301
01:05:43.760 --> 01:05:46.000
<v Speaker 3>hearing that was really it was tough on my ego,

1302
01:05:46.840 --> 01:05:50.199
<v Speaker 3>but he was right because if we wanted to continue

1303
01:05:50.239 --> 01:05:53.079
<v Speaker 3>grow in this company and doing cool projects, we need

1304
01:05:53.119 --> 01:05:56.000
<v Speaker 3>an executive producer that was going to go go fishing.

1305
01:05:56.119 --> 01:05:59.360
<v Speaker 3>And that's and executive producers go fishing for money by

1306
01:05:59.559 --> 01:06:03.480
<v Speaker 3>curing solid relationships, trusted relationships. So my job at my

1307
01:06:03.519 --> 01:06:06.159
<v Speaker 3>business is to create trusted relationships. And that's that's what

1308
01:06:06.199 --> 01:06:07.440
<v Speaker 3>I do every single day.

1309
01:06:08.440 --> 01:06:10.239
<v Speaker 4>And last question, three of your favorite.

1310
01:06:09.960 --> 01:06:10.679
<v Speaker 2>Films of all time?

1311
01:06:12.119 --> 01:06:13.079
<v Speaker 3>Sweet Hereafter?

1312
01:06:14.039 --> 01:06:15.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I remember that movie.

1313
01:06:16.039 --> 01:06:19.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's a good a beautiful Canadian film and the

1314
01:06:19.760 --> 01:06:23.679
<v Speaker 3>soundtrack was great. It was so good. I would say

1315
01:06:24.079 --> 01:06:28.039
<v Speaker 3>I have to say fire walk with me. David Lynch Wow,

1316
01:06:30.280 --> 01:06:34.159
<v Speaker 3>a huge Twin Peaks fan. During during you know those

1317
01:06:34.239 --> 01:06:40.840
<v Speaker 3>times and let me see here. It's always a tough

1318
01:06:42.960 --> 01:06:48.519
<v Speaker 3>I absolutely loved Eternal Sunshine. I love Virgin Suicides. So

1319
01:06:49.199 --> 01:06:52.000
<v Speaker 3>I'm failing on answering because there's so many great films

1320
01:06:52.000 --> 01:06:54.360
<v Speaker 3>I love. But I gotta give you one more David

1321
01:06:54.440 --> 01:06:59.519
<v Speaker 3>Lynch film, which is Elephant Man. Yeah it struck me,

1322
01:06:59.760 --> 01:07:02.679
<v Speaker 3>it really did, because Linch is just weird. Usually this

1323
01:07:02.719 --> 01:07:06.280
<v Speaker 3>is not a weird film. This is a sad, heartfelt,

1324
01:07:06.320 --> 01:07:09.159
<v Speaker 3>emotional film. And if you haven't seen Elephant Man, you

1325
01:07:09.280 --> 01:07:13.519
<v Speaker 3>got to see it. And yeah, so I going to

1326
01:07:13.599 --> 01:07:16.079
<v Speaker 3>give you those four or five films as kind of

1327
01:07:16.079 --> 01:07:18.840
<v Speaker 3>my inspirations, and each one of them have a reason

1328
01:07:18.880 --> 01:07:20.280
<v Speaker 3>why I absolutely love them.

1329
01:07:20.559 --> 01:07:23.320
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, very cool, Greg Man, thank you so much

1330
01:07:23.360 --> 01:07:25.920
<v Speaker 2>for coming on the show and helping us shed a

1331
01:07:25.920 --> 01:07:28.440
<v Speaker 2>little light on a problem that needs to be discussed.

1332
01:07:28.480 --> 01:07:31.239
<v Speaker 2>It's not generally discussed in public very often.

1333
01:07:31.920 --> 01:07:34.239
<v Speaker 3>James that and you're doing a great yourself.

1334
01:07:34.440 --> 01:07:36.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying, my friend, I'm trying, So thanks again, my friend.

1335
01:07:37.199 --> 01:07:38.880
<v Speaker 3>All right, Alex tears Man, thanks.

1336
01:07:40.519 --> 01:07:42.400
<v Speaker 2>I want to thank Greg for coming on the show

1337
01:07:42.960 --> 01:07:46.760
<v Speaker 2>and really shining a light on this problem that is abuse,

1338
01:07:47.199 --> 01:07:50.639
<v Speaker 2>verbal abuse and people being taken advantage of on sets

1339
01:07:50.920 --> 01:07:54.840
<v Speaker 2>in productions and in this business in general. So Greg,

1340
01:07:54.880 --> 01:07:56.760
<v Speaker 2>thank you, thank you so much for that. If you

1341
01:07:56.760 --> 01:07:58.199
<v Speaker 2>want to get links to anything we spoke about in

1342
01:07:58.239 --> 01:08:00.760
<v Speaker 2>this episode, head over to the show notes at Bulletproof

1343
01:08:00.800 --> 01:08:04.519
<v Speaker 2>Screenwriting dot tv. Forward slash four thirteen. Thank you so

1344
01:08:04.599 --> 01:08:07.079
<v Speaker 2>much for listening to guys. As always, keep on writing

1345
01:08:07.239 --> 01:08:09.000
<v Speaker 2>no matter what. I'll talk to you soon.

1346
01:08:09.559 --> 01:08:14.239
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproofscreenwriting

1347
01:08:14.320 --> 01:08:14.920
<v Speaker 1>dot tv.