Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
where we left off with Michael Thomas at his interview
with the OIG Inspectors. Question, so when that happens, though,
would you have conversations with staff members in general, like,
hey man, it's just a long day, let's not do
this one? Answer Thomas. Absolutely. That depends on so many
different variables. There's really no conversation about, well, you know,
we're not going to do this or anything like that.
There's really no conversation about that question. I would just
think that if there's no if it's supposed to be
done and there is no conversation about it, that just
seems like they're never done. So what do you have
to say? Thomas cuts them off. Not really, he gets
caught off, like, okay, let's get this one, Thomas. Like
I said, I'm not the only one that does this.
Actually looks a lot different from what I'm used to
seeing as you can see, because right now these only
have stars. Some people have s by their name because
they did more overtime than others. So sometimes you could
just be tired. Sometimes it doesn't have to be a conversation.
Somebody just didn't bother you and you just didn't do
the round at all. Question do you almost like wait
for someone to take the initiative, and if they don't
take the initiative, you both just kind of sit there? Thomas. No, No,
Like I said, it's just it could happen in any
different variable way, you know what I mean. But most
of the time, I would say, most of the guys
in there do their accounts. Question, Okay, are more accounts
not being done in that morning shift though, versus the
day shift? Thomas? Again, I don't know what other people do.
Question sure, Thomas, when they're about in their housing units
or not? Question okay. And it's kind of a common
practice at the MCC not to do rounds in the
shoe and the counts. Thomas, No, it's not a common practice.
I don't want to say that. Question. You wouldn't say
it's a common practice. So this was an unusual event,
is what you're saying? Thomas, Yeah, definitely an unusual event.
Question Okay, I'm going to move on to the next thing.
Let's just talk a little bit about the shoe layout.
Do you have do you mind just so we can
get these away from you. Do you mind just initialing Thomas, okay,
and dating the top there both the rosters as well
as the count slips. We already did the rounds, correct Thomas,
the rounds, yeah. Question, So just initial and date the top.
It's just to show that where Thomas cuts them off
that we spoke about it. Question. It's what we discussed
and this one we didn't actually go over. My bad.
Thank you sir for initialing and dating those. So this
is a layout of the shoe. It looks like you
said that there's two levels in the shoe. Correct. It
starts on the ninth floor Thomas. Yeah, it starts on
the ninth floor and goes all the way up to
the tenth question. Okay, are you able to tell by
this by looking at the letters which one is the
first floor and which one is the second? Thomas? No,
I can't tell. Question that isn't the cells so like
the cell numbers and stuff, do you know which one
are like L, H and all that kind of stuff, Thomas.
By the numbers, no, I couldn't tell you which number
is what? No, I couldn't tell you what number. I
really couldn't tell you what the numbers are question. That's fine,
So there are they basically Thomas, I'm sure that this
could be the top and this could be question. Are
they basically identical layouts though, Thomas? On every one except
for Yeah, every housing unit is set up the same, absolutely, question. Okay,
So it looks like that. Aside from this, this says stares.
So it says kitchen area. Would the kitchen area be
on the first? And which is the second? Thomas, The
kitchen is on every housing unit. Question, you have to
tell me indiscernible, like, as far as you like. This
is what I'm noticing as a difference. These cells look
like they're all the same. Aside from here, it looks
like they're visiting activity. And then here it says kitchen
area and here it has this area. So by looking
at that, are you able to tell what the first
and what's the second? So I'm noticing the difference between
this and this. And like I told you folks earlier,
this is a bit disjointed and it jumps around. So
I'm doing my best to try and keep it in
a sequence that's followable. Thomas, Right, yeah, okay, because this
has office I would have said that this would have
been the bottom, but this has office. This got to
be the bottom because of visiting floor. But he gets
cut off. This has m over here see this hasm
in front of it, this has K. Question these are
the tiers? Thomas mh yeah, okay, okay, yeah, this is
a tier. Okay question, That's what I was saying. And Thomas, Oh,
in front of there you said, I see I heard
that you said indiscernible, So H would be this would
I think K is the and it's just all disjointed here, folks.
Is where's G G is the top? There we go? Question?
That's what I thought. So, and these are the old
tier over there? Thomas, Oh, because this is ten South,
This is ten South. Question and just since you mentioned it,
what is ten South Thomas, another housing unit inside the institution? Question?
Is it the super secure one inmate per sell Thomas? Yeah.
Question it has cameras in it. Thomas, Yeah, cameras all
around and everything like that. Question right, so high profile
type of thing, Thomas, high profile inmates and everything like that,
going there? Yes? Question? All right? So did you say
then this is because that's south, this is the second
floor Thomas, yes? Question all right, I'm just going to
ride on top of this right here. Second Thomas, Okay,
question second floor, and on this one, I'm just going
to ride first floor. Thomas. Yeah, you separated by floors,
but they're all in one place. Thomas, it's not too
different separate floors. When you're saying floor, I'm thinking ninth floor,
seventh floor. But this is all technically question, it's all
the shoe Thomas, it's all the shoe. Yeah, question correct,
But there are two floors in the shoe, right, Thomas, No,
it's really not. Well, yeah, it's not two floors. Question
like a split level almost, Thomas. I don't know how
to explain it. It's not two floors like that, because
then you would say it's three floors because when you
go down, you go down the steps into one and
you just go up the stairs. But it's all in
one area, like this would all be ten south and
this would be nine, and then all this would be seven.
But right here, you'll go down and you'll go up,
but it's still all on the same floor. Question. Okay, Thomas,
it's all on the ninth floor. Question. So it's all
on the ninth floor. So is the second level of
the ninth floor, Thomas, the second level of the ninth
floor question? Should I change second level or second floor
to second level? Thomas? Yeah, because you say floor, you're
thinking like you went from one floor to another, Like
is this the third floor and downstairs would be the
second floor question? Sure, Thomas, But this is all it's
all one question. So ninth floor, second level? Is that correct? Thomas? Yeah, okay,
I don't have a problem with that question. First level,
all right, So you can tell me where it is
that the officer's station is set up. Where are you
when you work in the shoe? Is it all in
a centralized location? I'm assuming it's on the first floor Thomas.
It's on the first floor, and it would be roughly
this is kind of a setup that's crazy, but would
be over no, because that's K and L, So this
would be it's between K and he gets cut off.
So is this the kitchen area question? This is recreation?
Would it be somewhere over like here? Thomas? Well, see,
because of the way that this is set up, it
would be somewhere over here. It's not level with the
tears question? Okay, Thomas, Like, because how this is set up?
May I question? Yeah? You can even draw Thomas, all right,
Like I'm saying it's in this space here officer station,
but it's not on the same level as the tears.
Question Okay, Thomas, Like the way if I say officer station,
he gets cut off. So it's like blow it, Thomas,
You're thinking it goes down. If I say officer station here,
you're thinking that it's right next to K Tire and
M Tier. But it's not like that question Okay, Thomas,
Like this, the officer station would be somewhere on this
general area right here, but then K Tier is over here,
but it's downstairs. Question Okay Thomas, and then Jay Tier
is upstairs, but it's still on the ninth floor. But
it just goes like I said, it has steps here,
Like how is it it got steps down till one
steps going down to two? So they're not on the
same he gets cut off. I understand question or answer
by Thomas Flora as the officer's station question. So you
think it's actually outside here and not more like in here? Thomas, Yeah,
it's kind of like in between. I would say more
like here, like in between them. Question. Okay, so from
the officer's station, can you see like the doors to
the cells. Thomas, you can see the doors to the cells, yes,
question you can Thomas, you can see inside the cells?
Absolutely not. But I can see the doors to the cell. Question.
So you can see the doors, but you can't see inside, Thomas,
you can't see inside the cells. No, you could just
see the door. Question all right, could you see the
door to Epstein's cell? Thomas, you can see his door. Yeah,
you can see his door from there. Question okay, so
from the officer's station, was Epstein pretty much the closest
cell to the officer station? Thomas, No, question, it wasn't, Thomas, No,
it's not the closest the M tier because if I'm
not mistaken, Epstein was on the second tier, so he
would have been on L tier. He would have been
up here. So all the cells in M tier just
right here would have been the closest to the officer
station M tier, and even this tier would have been
closer than him. Question. Okay, Thomas, if I'm not mistaken,
Epstein was up here. Question do you remember which cell
he was in? Thomas? This one question? Do you mind
just marking that like put a star or something. But
you could see his door but you couldn't Thomas, Yeah,
you could see. He gets caught off. It wasn't the
closest question Thomas, Yeah, it's not the closest to it. Question.
Does it sit up here though? If you can see,
like from down here, you can see there, Thomas. I
don't know why he would sit there in that particular cell. Question,
but you can see the door Thomas, yes. Question okay,
And I'll just go through. And you said you couldn't
see actually inside the cell though, Thomas, No, you can't
see inside the cell absolutely not. Question and you approximately,
like how far would that be from the officer station
Epstein cell? The estimate was fifteen feet Thomas, okay. Question
does that sound right? Thomas. We're good with that question.
So on August tenth, twenty nineteen, did you ever see
anyone inside of Epstein's cell? Thomas No, question not from
the hours of twelve am to six thirty three am. Thomas, No,
from I never seen anybody going inside the cell. Question. Okay,
so you didn't ever witness anyone it made staff members? Thomas, No,
I didn't. Question okay. And were you present in the
shoe for your entire shift from twelve am to six
thirty three am. Thomas, Yes. Question. Okay, is there like
a bathroom and everything in the shoe for you to
utilize question? Yes, there is, yes, question, But you can't
recall ever leaving, Thomas, I don't recall going to the bathroom.
Question now, not to the bathroom. I just meant, was
there a reason for you to leave that door that
someone would have had to unlock or lock or let
you into the control center would have let you in? Well, Thomas, Well,
no reason. Somebody had to go upstairs and count the
other units. One of us had to go up there
and count the other unit. There's a reason. If you
want to go to the bathroom or get a drink
of water, you can go over there. But I don't
remember if I left or not. I don't really recall. Question.
So your recollection is that you remained in the shoe
for the hours of twelve am two six thirty three am. Thomas, Yes, question.
So point being, you would have known if someone went
in or out of Epstein's cell Thomas, Yes, question, And
no one did Thomas, No one went in as far
as I know. No. Oh, all right, folks, we're gonna
wrap up right there and in the next episode dealing
with the topic, We're gonna pick up where we left off.
All of the information that goes with this episode can
be found in the description box.