1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,359
Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome to another episode of the

2
00:00:03,359 --> 00:00:06,839
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up

3
00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,960
where we left off with Michael Thomas at his interview

4
00:00:11,279 --> 00:00:15,560
with the OIG Inspectors. Question, so when that happens, though,

5
00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,039
would you have conversations with staff members in general, like,

6
00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,039
hey man, it's just a long day, let's not do

7
00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:26,280
this one? Answer Thomas. Absolutely. That depends on so many

8
00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,960
different variables. There's really no conversation about, well, you know,

9
00:00:30,199 --> 00:00:32,679
we're not going to do this or anything like that.

10
00:00:33,039 --> 00:00:38,200
There's really no conversation about that question. I would just

11
00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,439
think that if there's no if it's supposed to be

12
00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,679
done and there is no conversation about it, that just

13
00:00:43,719 --> 00:00:46,359
seems like they're never done. So what do you have

14
00:00:46,439 --> 00:00:49,600
to say? Thomas cuts them off. Not really, he gets

15
00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,039
caught off, like, okay, let's get this one, Thomas. Like

16
00:00:53,079 --> 00:00:55,600
I said, I'm not the only one that does this.

17
00:00:55,719 --> 00:00:58,119
Actually looks a lot different from what I'm used to

18
00:00:58,119 --> 00:01:01,759
seeing as you can see, because right now these only

19
00:01:01,799 --> 00:01:06,000
have stars. Some people have s by their name because

20
00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,120
they did more overtime than others. So sometimes you could

21
00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,359
just be tired. Sometimes it doesn't have to be a conversation.

22
00:01:12,879 --> 00:01:15,560
Somebody just didn't bother you and you just didn't do

23
00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,560
the round at all. Question do you almost like wait

24
00:01:18,599 --> 00:01:21,359
for someone to take the initiative, and if they don't

25
00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,959
take the initiative, you both just kind of sit there? Thomas. No, No,

26
00:01:26,239 --> 00:01:29,159
Like I said, it's just it could happen in any

27
00:01:29,159 --> 00:01:31,840
different variable way, you know what I mean. But most

28
00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:33,560
of the time, I would say, most of the guys

29
00:01:33,799 --> 00:01:37,480
in there do their accounts. Question, Okay, are more accounts

30
00:01:37,519 --> 00:01:40,400
not being done in that morning shift though, versus the

31
00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,599
day shift? Thomas? Again, I don't know what other people do.

32
00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,879
Question sure, Thomas, when they're about in their housing units

33
00:01:48,959 --> 00:01:51,879
or not? Question okay. And it's kind of a common

34
00:01:51,879 --> 00:01:54,719
practice at the MCC not to do rounds in the

35
00:01:54,719 --> 00:01:58,560
shoe and the counts. Thomas, No, it's not a common practice.

36
00:01:58,719 --> 00:02:01,480
I don't want to say that. Question. You wouldn't say

37
00:02:01,519 --> 00:02:04,680
it's a common practice. So this was an unusual event,

38
00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:09,080
is what you're saying? Thomas, Yeah, definitely an unusual event.

39
00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:14,280
Question Okay, I'm going to move on to the next thing.

40
00:02:14,759 --> 00:02:17,400
Let's just talk a little bit about the shoe layout.

41
00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,159
Do you have do you mind just so we can

42
00:02:20,159 --> 00:02:23,520
get these away from you. Do you mind just initialing Thomas, okay,

43
00:02:24,159 --> 00:02:27,120
and dating the top there both the rosters as well

44
00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,719
as the count slips. We already did the rounds, correct Thomas,

45
00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,719
the rounds, yeah. Question, So just initial and date the top.

46
00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:39,039
It's just to show that where Thomas cuts them off

47
00:02:39,039 --> 00:02:42,639
that we spoke about it. Question. It's what we discussed

48
00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,719
and this one we didn't actually go over. My bad.

49
00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:50,599
Thank you sir for initialing and dating those. So this

50
00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,520
is a layout of the shoe. It looks like you

51
00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,199
said that there's two levels in the shoe. Correct. It

52
00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,199
starts on the ninth floor Thomas. Yeah, it starts on

53
00:02:59,199 --> 00:03:01,120
the ninth floor and goes all the way up to

54
00:03:01,159 --> 00:03:04,840
the tenth question. Okay, are you able to tell by

55
00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,680
this by looking at the letters which one is the

56
00:03:07,719 --> 00:03:10,759
first floor and which one is the second? Thomas? No,

57
00:03:10,879 --> 00:03:15,159
I can't tell. Question that isn't the cells so like

58
00:03:15,199 --> 00:03:17,680
the cell numbers and stuff, do you know which one

59
00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,680
are like L, H and all that kind of stuff, Thomas.

60
00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,439
By the numbers, no, I couldn't tell you which number

61
00:03:23,479 --> 00:03:27,120
is what? No, I couldn't tell you what number. I

62
00:03:27,199 --> 00:03:30,280
really couldn't tell you what the numbers are question. That's fine,

63
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:34,680
So there are they basically Thomas, I'm sure that this

64
00:03:34,759 --> 00:03:38,199
could be the top and this could be question. Are

65
00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,639
they basically identical layouts though, Thomas? On every one except

66
00:03:42,719 --> 00:03:49,479
for Yeah, every housing unit is set up the same, absolutely, question. Okay,

67
00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,879
So it looks like that. Aside from this, this says stares.

68
00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,680
So it says kitchen area. Would the kitchen area be

69
00:03:56,759 --> 00:04:00,800
on the first? And which is the second? Thomas, The

70
00:04:00,919 --> 00:04:05,000
kitchen is on every housing unit. Question, you have to

71
00:04:05,039 --> 00:04:10,439
tell me indiscernible, like, as far as you like. This

72
00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,599
is what I'm noticing as a difference. These cells look

73
00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,040
like they're all the same. Aside from here, it looks

74
00:04:16,079 --> 00:04:19,680
like they're visiting activity. And then here it says kitchen

75
00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,120
area and here it has this area. So by looking

76
00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,519
at that, are you able to tell what the first

77
00:04:25,639 --> 00:04:28,800
and what's the second? So I'm noticing the difference between

78
00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,319
this and this. And like I told you folks earlier,

79
00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,439
this is a bit disjointed and it jumps around. So

80
00:04:34,519 --> 00:04:36,519
I'm doing my best to try and keep it in

81
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:41,439
a sequence that's followable. Thomas, Right, yeah, okay, because this

82
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,360
has office I would have said that this would have

83
00:04:44,399 --> 00:04:47,199
been the bottom, but this has office. This got to

84
00:04:47,199 --> 00:04:50,160
be the bottom because of visiting floor. But he gets

85
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,360
cut off. This has m over here see this hasm

86
00:04:53,439 --> 00:04:57,160
in front of it, this has K. Question these are

87
00:04:57,199 --> 00:05:01,800
the tiers? Thomas mh yeah, okay, okay, yeah, this is

88
00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:06,839
a tier. Okay question, That's what I was saying. And Thomas, Oh,

89
00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:10,000
in front of there you said, I see I heard

90
00:05:10,519 --> 00:05:14,120
that you said indiscernible, So H would be this would

91
00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:18,160
I think K is the and it's just all disjointed here, folks.

92
00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,480
Is where's G G is the top? There we go? Question?

93
00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,079
That's what I thought. So, and these are the old

94
00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:30,199
tier over there? Thomas, Oh, because this is ten South,

95
00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,800
This is ten South. Question and just since you mentioned it,

96
00:05:33,959 --> 00:05:39,000
what is ten South Thomas, another housing unit inside the institution? Question?

97
00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:43,480
Is it the super secure one inmate per sell Thomas? Yeah.

98
00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,160
Question it has cameras in it. Thomas, Yeah, cameras all

99
00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:51,160
around and everything like that. Question right, so high profile

100
00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,920
type of thing, Thomas, high profile inmates and everything like that,

101
00:05:54,959 --> 00:05:57,879
going there? Yes? Question? All right? So did you say

102
00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,639
then this is because that's south, this is the second

103
00:06:01,639 --> 00:06:05,120
floor Thomas, yes? Question all right, I'm just going to

104
00:06:05,199 --> 00:06:08,560
ride on top of this right here. Second Thomas, Okay,

105
00:06:09,399 --> 00:06:12,759
question second floor, and on this one, I'm just going

106
00:06:12,759 --> 00:06:16,279
to ride first floor. Thomas. Yeah, you separated by floors,

107
00:06:16,439 --> 00:06:20,279
but they're all in one place. Thomas, it's not too

108
00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:24,560
different separate floors. When you're saying floor, I'm thinking ninth floor,

109
00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,959
seventh floor. But this is all technically question, it's all

110
00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,839
the shoe Thomas, it's all the shoe. Yeah, question correct,

111
00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,160
But there are two floors in the shoe, right, Thomas, No,

112
00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,680
it's really not. Well, yeah, it's not two floors. Question

113
00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,160
like a split level almost, Thomas. I don't know how

114
00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,519
to explain it. It's not two floors like that, because

115
00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,839
then you would say it's three floors because when you

116
00:06:47,879 --> 00:06:50,439
go down, you go down the steps into one and

117
00:06:50,519 --> 00:06:52,519
you just go up the stairs. But it's all in

118
00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:57,920
one area, like this would all be ten south and

119
00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,800
this would be nine, and then all this would be seven.

120
00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,680
But right here, you'll go down and you'll go up,

121
00:07:03,959 --> 00:07:08,879
but it's still all on the same floor. Question. Okay, Thomas,

122
00:07:08,959 --> 00:07:11,360
it's all on the ninth floor. Question. So it's all

123
00:07:11,399 --> 00:07:14,120
on the ninth floor. So is the second level of

124
00:07:14,199 --> 00:07:17,120
the ninth floor, Thomas, the second level of the ninth

125
00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,439
floor question? Should I change second level or second floor

126
00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:24,160
to second level? Thomas? Yeah, because you say floor, you're

127
00:07:24,199 --> 00:07:27,199
thinking like you went from one floor to another, Like

128
00:07:27,439 --> 00:07:29,680
is this the third floor and downstairs would be the

129
00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,839
second floor question? Sure, Thomas, But this is all it's

130
00:07:33,839 --> 00:07:39,079
all one question. So ninth floor, second level? Is that correct? Thomas? Yeah, okay,

131
00:07:39,199 --> 00:07:42,879
I don't have a problem with that question. First level,

132
00:07:42,959 --> 00:07:45,079
all right, So you can tell me where it is

133
00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,399
that the officer's station is set up. Where are you

134
00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:50,480
when you work in the shoe? Is it all in

135
00:07:50,519 --> 00:07:54,920
a centralized location? I'm assuming it's on the first floor Thomas.

136
00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,079
It's on the first floor, and it would be roughly

137
00:07:57,519 --> 00:08:00,279
this is kind of a setup that's crazy, but would

138
00:08:00,279 --> 00:08:02,680
be over no, because that's K and L, So this

139
00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,839
would be it's between K and he gets cut off.

140
00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:10,240
So is this the kitchen area question? This is recreation?

141
00:08:10,399 --> 00:08:14,079
Would it be somewhere over like here? Thomas? Well, see,

142
00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:15,959
because of the way that this is set up, it

143
00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,959
would be somewhere over here. It's not level with the

144
00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:23,319
tears question? Okay, Thomas, Like, because how this is set up?

145
00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:27,920
May I question? Yeah? You can even draw Thomas, all right,

146
00:08:28,279 --> 00:08:31,199
Like I'm saying it's in this space here officer station,

147
00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:33,720
but it's not on the same level as the tears.

148
00:08:34,039 --> 00:08:38,080
Question Okay, Thomas, Like the way if I say officer station,

149
00:08:38,519 --> 00:08:40,960
he gets cut off. So it's like blow it, Thomas,

150
00:08:41,159 --> 00:08:44,759
You're thinking it goes down. If I say officer station here,

151
00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,080
you're thinking that it's right next to K Tire and

152
00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:52,120
M Tier. But it's not like that question Okay, Thomas,

153
00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,399
Like this, the officer station would be somewhere on this

154
00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,840
general area right here, but then K Tier is over here,

155
00:08:59,039 --> 00:09:03,679
but it's downstairs. Question Okay Thomas, and then Jay Tier

156
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,559
is upstairs, but it's still on the ninth floor. But

157
00:09:06,639 --> 00:09:08,919
it just goes like I said, it has steps here,

158
00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,960
Like how is it it got steps down till one

159
00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,120
steps going down to two? So they're not on the

160
00:09:16,159 --> 00:09:19,679
same he gets cut off. I understand question or answer

161
00:09:19,759 --> 00:09:25,200
by Thomas Flora as the officer's station question. So you

162
00:09:25,279 --> 00:09:29,759
think it's actually outside here and not more like in here? Thomas, Yeah,

163
00:09:29,879 --> 00:09:32,240
it's kind of like in between. I would say more

164
00:09:32,279 --> 00:09:36,159
like here, like in between them. Question. Okay, so from

165
00:09:36,159 --> 00:09:38,600
the officer's station, can you see like the doors to

166
00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:42,279
the cells. Thomas, you can see the doors to the cells, yes,

167
00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:46,000
question you can Thomas, you can see inside the cells?

168
00:09:46,039 --> 00:09:49,799
Absolutely not. But I can see the doors to the cell. Question.

169
00:09:49,919 --> 00:09:53,120
So you can see the doors, but you can't see inside, Thomas,

170
00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:55,840
you can't see inside the cells. No, you could just

171
00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,919
see the door. Question all right, could you see the

172
00:09:58,919 --> 00:10:03,120
door to Epstein's cell? Thomas, you can see his door. Yeah,

173
00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:05,559
you can see his door from there. Question okay, so

174
00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,039
from the officer's station, was Epstein pretty much the closest

175
00:10:09,039 --> 00:10:14,159
cell to the officer station? Thomas, No, question, it wasn't, Thomas, No,

176
00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,240
it's not the closest the M tier because if I'm

177
00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,360
not mistaken, Epstein was on the second tier, so he

178
00:10:20,399 --> 00:10:22,360
would have been on L tier. He would have been

179
00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,080
up here. So all the cells in M tier just

180
00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,639
right here would have been the closest to the officer

181
00:10:27,759 --> 00:10:30,720
station M tier, and even this tier would have been

182
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:35,200
closer than him. Question. Okay, Thomas, if I'm not mistaken,

183
00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,320
Epstein was up here. Question do you remember which cell

184
00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:42,120
he was in? Thomas? This one question? Do you mind

185
00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,120
just marking that like put a star or something. But

186
00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,279
you could see his door but you couldn't Thomas, Yeah,

187
00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,879
you could see. He gets caught off. It wasn't the

188
00:10:50,919 --> 00:10:55,480
closest question Thomas, Yeah, it's not the closest to it. Question.

189
00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:57,840
Does it sit up here though? If you can see,

190
00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,960
like from down here, you can see there, Thomas. I

191
00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:05,120
don't know why he would sit there in that particular cell. Question,

192
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,279
but you can see the door Thomas, yes. Question okay,

193
00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,480
And I'll just go through. And you said you couldn't

194
00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,200
see actually inside the cell though, Thomas, No, you can't

195
00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:18,759
see inside the cell absolutely not. Question and you approximately,

196
00:11:18,879 --> 00:11:21,480
like how far would that be from the officer station

197
00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,960
Epstein cell? The estimate was fifteen feet Thomas, okay. Question

198
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,440
does that sound right? Thomas. We're good with that question.

199
00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,960
So on August tenth, twenty nineteen, did you ever see

200
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:37,080
anyone inside of Epstein's cell? Thomas No, question not from

201
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,879
the hours of twelve am to six thirty three am. Thomas, No,

202
00:11:41,519 --> 00:11:45,159
from I never seen anybody going inside the cell. Question. Okay,

203
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,960
so you didn't ever witness anyone it made staff members? Thomas, No,

204
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,519
I didn't. Question okay. And were you present in the

205
00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,440
shoe for your entire shift from twelve am to six

206
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,799
thirty three am. Thomas, Yes. Question. Okay, is there like

207
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,159
a bathroom and everything in the shoe for you to

208
00:12:02,279 --> 00:12:07,000
utilize question? Yes, there is, yes, question, But you can't

209
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,480
recall ever leaving, Thomas, I don't recall going to the bathroom.

210
00:12:10,919 --> 00:12:13,480
Question now, not to the bathroom. I just meant, was

211
00:12:13,519 --> 00:12:15,919
there a reason for you to leave that door that

212
00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,480
someone would have had to unlock or lock or let

213
00:12:18,519 --> 00:12:23,279
you into the control center would have let you in? Well, Thomas, Well,

214
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,720
no reason. Somebody had to go upstairs and count the

215
00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,080
other units. One of us had to go up there

216
00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,000
and count the other unit. There's a reason. If you

217
00:12:31,039 --> 00:12:32,759
want to go to the bathroom or get a drink

218
00:12:32,759 --> 00:12:35,000
of water, you can go over there. But I don't

219
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,759
remember if I left or not. I don't really recall. Question.

220
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,720
So your recollection is that you remained in the shoe

221
00:12:41,919 --> 00:12:47,759
for the hours of twelve am two six thirty three am. Thomas, Yes, question.

222
00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,200
So point being, you would have known if someone went

223
00:12:51,279 --> 00:12:55,480
in or out of Epstein's cell Thomas, Yes, question, And

224
00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:59,320
no one did Thomas, No one went in as far

225
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,519
as I know. No. Oh, all right, folks, we're gonna

226
00:13:02,519 --> 00:13:04,679
wrap up right there and in the next episode dealing

227
00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:07,120
with the topic, We're gonna pick up where we left off.

228
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,440
All of the information that goes with this episode can

229
00:13:10,519 --> 00:13:12,559
be found in the description box.