WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.240 --> 00:00:05.919 What you're hearing right now is an old newsreel from 2 00:00:06.040 --> 00:00:06.960 nineteen thirty five. 3 00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:11.279 We have small coffees in Pennsylvania live billions of buns 4 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:12.320 of unlined goal. 5 00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:16.679 Mitch Troutman, author of the book The Bootleg Coal Rebellion, 6 00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:20.679 The Pennsylvania Miners Who Seized an Industry, plays this footage 7 00:00:20.719 --> 00:00:23.120 to start the talks that he gives about his book. 8 00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:26.719 The footage of this newsreel is just incredible. I mean, 9 00:00:26.760 --> 00:00:30.039 it's all a reenactment. These are bootleg miners in as 10 00:00:30.039 --> 00:00:32.600 far as I know. Those are cops in it who 11 00:00:32.679 --> 00:00:36.280 had a confrontation just a few months prior to the 12 00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:39.960 newsreels showing up and wanting to do this little spot 13 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:43.159 that ends up being six minutes shown across the country 14 00:00:43.159 --> 00:00:43.759 in theaters. 15 00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:46.840 Long before federal and state governments began handing out billions 16 00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:49.600 of dollars for relieve, these people found the way to 17 00:00:49.679 --> 00:00:50.359 help them sell. 18 00:00:51.079 --> 00:00:54.479 Bootleg mining is a phenomenon that started before the Great Depression, 19 00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:57.840 but became commonplace in coal country after the stock market 20 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:01.479 crash of nineteen twenty nine. Cynthia economy into chaos, and 21 00:01:01.560 --> 00:01:05.560 mine started closing down without any jobs, money, or ways 22 00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:09.000 to heat their homes. The miners started independently working the mines. 23 00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:12.040 But one industry that actually did well during the depression 24 00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:15.879 was movie theaters, and this newsreel about bootleg miners would 25 00:01:15.879 --> 00:01:19.079 have been shown to board and unemployed movie audiences across 26 00:01:19.079 --> 00:01:20.079 the country. 27 00:01:19.799 --> 00:01:21.680 Because people were eager to spend a little bit of 28 00:01:21.719 --> 00:01:24.599 money to forget about things. And you know, having audio 29 00:01:24.680 --> 00:01:28.239 with your video was somewhat new, So the bootleggers got 30 00:01:28.239 --> 00:01:31.040 to go watch themselves on film. You see them coming 31 00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:34.480 out of the hills, coming out of their own bootleg holes. 32 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:35.840 It looks really wild. 33 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:38.400 When depressed from people, the miners want to step further. 34 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:41.879 You see them rallying at a meeting of bootleg miners. 35 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:45.519 You even see a negotiation between them and the company, 36 00:01:45.560 --> 00:01:48.560 hosted by the editor of the local newspaper, and that's 37 00:01:48.599 --> 00:01:51.120 a role that a couple of the region's editors played. 38 00:01:51.400 --> 00:01:54.400 What they don't show you is that the reenactment they're 39 00:01:54.439 --> 00:01:59.120 doing in real life ended with them dynamiting company property 40 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:01.120 and the company retreating. 41 00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:04.359 That might they sold their stolen goals, the local merchants 42 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:07.799 will realized that the legal coal business might keep families alive. 43 00:02:08.719 --> 00:02:13.560 This is emblematic because the bootleggers were ignoring and rejecting 44 00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:18.000 property rights, and as time went on, you know, over 45 00:02:18.120 --> 00:02:20.879 like this twelve fifteen year span, they just gained more 46 00:02:20.919 --> 00:02:23.560 and more power locally to the point where they were 47 00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:28.000 basically immune from enforcement of property right laws that belonged 48 00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:31.479 to the coal company, especially in two counties in particular, 49 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:34.800 it was the primary industry happening. 50 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:38.560 So in this scenario, when their organization is able. 51 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:41.439 To push the company cops away, and I mean the 52 00:02:41.439 --> 00:02:45.240 company cops are honestly scared at this point, That's really 53 00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:48.000 how things were going. And that's why this history was 54 00:02:48.039 --> 00:02:50.520 so crazy that it was buried for so long, because 55 00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:53.879 it really is a rebellion, not in the sense that 56 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:56.039 they were trying to overthrow the government, but in the 57 00:02:56.080 --> 00:02:59.039 sense that they had decided certain laws just don't apply, 58 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:05.240 and local judges, even local police were enforcing those laws anymore. 59 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:08.639 The boat leggers were, I believe, they are only taking 60 00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:11.400 what belongs to them. 61 00:03:11.759 --> 00:03:14.960 Throughout the Great Depression and its aftermath, stealing coal from 62 00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:17.680 the companies, which started out of a need for survival 63 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:20.400 and as a strike tactic, would grow into a full 64 00:03:20.439 --> 00:03:24.680 fledged industry of unionized independent miners. It was a community 65 00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:28.039 effort born out of solidarity with one another, a culture 66 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:31.240 of dangerous and often deadly work, a desire to reclaim 67 00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:34.039 the commons in a time of extreme poverty, and an 68 00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:37.960 understanding that laws are arbitrary rules made by the ruling 69 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:42.199 class whose only interest is the protection of capital. This 70 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:43.680 is working class History. 71 00:03:44.439 --> 00:04:01.639 Alamatina haena all belag Child, The lag Child, the Lagilama. 72 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:08.120 Before we get started, just a reminder that our podcast 73 00:04:08.199 --> 00:04:11.520 is brought to you by our Patreon supporters. Our supporters 74 00:04:11.560 --> 00:04:14.479 fund our work and in return get exclusive early access 75 00:04:14.520 --> 00:04:19.240 to podcast episodes without ads, bonus episodes, free and discounted merchandise, 76 00:04:19.319 --> 00:04:22.639 and other content. For example, our Patreon supporters can listen 77 00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:25.279 to both parts of this double episode without ads. Now 78 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:28.480 join us or find out more at patreon dot com 79 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:31.839 slash working class history link In the show notes. 80 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:38.959 The bootleg miners. 81 00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:41.439 They get half a sentence in a People's History of 82 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:45.800 the United States, and I really couldn't find much else 83 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:46.360 on it. 84 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:47.839 There wasn't much written. 85 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:51.839 Mitch stumbled upon the relatively unknown story of bootleg mining 86 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:54.360 during a break after getting burnt out as a rural 87 00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:58.480 community organizer in central Pennsylvania. He took a carpentry job, 88 00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:01.040 started a blog, and I was using it to highlight 89 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:04.000 the many cultural oddities of the region, which people in 90 00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:07.160 central Pennsylvania think are normal, but most people wouldn't. 91 00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:09.160 One is the amount of house fires. 92 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:13.399 Right every winter in these towns, whole blocks will burned 93 00:05:13.480 --> 00:05:16.439 down because the housing stock is so old because it 94 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:19.000 was built by companies made out of wood, you know, 95 00:05:19.160 --> 00:05:22.800 and so one electrical fire will spread throughout the others. 96 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:25.639 Another one of these oddities is the way people tend 97 00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:28.040 to treat coal company land as if it belongs to 98 00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:28.600 the public. 99 00:05:29.079 --> 00:05:32.120 Just the fact that there's this culture there of using 100 00:05:32.360 --> 00:05:35.000 the coal company lands as your own, or not as 101 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:38.560 your own, more of as a commons Like that's that's 102 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:42.160 how it exists today. Is people will go out into 103 00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:46.360 the abandoned mindlands and have a picnic, have a party, 104 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:51.879 go racing, race trucks or whatever, go swimming. And I 105 00:05:52.120 --> 00:05:54.720 really wanted to figure out, like where's this come from? 106 00:05:55.319 --> 00:05:58.399 Like to people here, this is normal, but where where's 107 00:05:58.439 --> 00:05:59.040 the root of that. 108 00:05:59.639 --> 00:06:02.360 The book also came out of Mitch's curiosity about his 109 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:05.600 own family history. He had heard family members talk about 110 00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:08.839 so called bootleg mining, which these days has become shorthand 111 00:06:08.920 --> 00:06:11.839 for a small group of people, usually all related, who 112 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:15.519 run a small, legal, independent mind. As he dug further 113 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:18.000 into the origins of the phrase, he learned that both 114 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:20.279 his mom and dad's sides of the family had a 115 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:23.160 more radical history than he thought. And he learned that 116 00:06:23.199 --> 00:06:26.079 the word bootlegging held the answer to his questions about 117 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:27.079 the commons as well. 118 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:30.120 And it turns out they both came from the same place. 119 00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:34.040 And so I read everything I could find, every little 120 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:37.639 obscure thing I could find on bootleg mining. I wrote 121 00:06:37.720 --> 00:06:43.720 a blog post that became quite popular locally, and a 122 00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:46.759 friend of mine just kept encouraging me to dig in more, 123 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:48.800 dig in more, And I thought I had found everything I. 124 00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:52.399 Could, but there wasn't much to find. Research and history 125 00:06:52.439 --> 00:06:54.759 on bootleg mining was hard to come by, and the 126 00:06:54.800 --> 00:06:58.680 phenomenon seemed to be really poorly documented until he stumbled 127 00:06:58.759 --> 00:07:01.680 upon the work of a man named Michael Cazera, who 128 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:04.319 had been working on a book about bootleg miners in 129 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:07.319 the nineteen eighties and nineties. Michael was a member of 130 00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:11.120 the Industrial Workers of the World or IWW, the son 131 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:14.240 of bootleg coal truckers, and he had been collecting oral 132 00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:17.160 histories from bootleg miners. When he tragically died in a 133 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:19.079 car accident and I. 134 00:07:19.519 --> 00:07:22.560 Managed to find the phone number for his widow, I 135 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:25.720 called her up and she was so happy someone called. 136 00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:29.879 She had saved all his materials, some of which were 137 00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:31.959 put into a library and the rest of which were 138 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:34.920 in her basement. And managed to get all that and 139 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:39.040 once I had these forty odd interviews with people who 140 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:41.959 are dead now, a friend of mine said, that's a 141 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:46.279 whole book right there. And I certainly hadn't thought of 142 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:48.600 it as a book up until that point. But because 143 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:51.800 there wasn't something like that already, I decided to go 144 00:07:51.959 --> 00:07:54.639 for it, and my own curiosity kind of forced me 145 00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:55.000 to do it. 146 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:56.639 Anyway I needed to know more. 147 00:07:57.240 --> 00:07:59.920 One of Mitch's big questions was why isn't there all 148 00:08:00.040 --> 00:08:02.879 ready a book about this? One reason was that the 149 00:08:02.920 --> 00:08:06.160 person who'd been working on one had died. But another 150 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:09.759 reason is that the story itself hadn't really survived well locally. 151 00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:12.680 The story just hadn't been told or passed down. 152 00:08:13.399 --> 00:08:17.199 I think one reason for that is anti communism. After 153 00:08:17.279 --> 00:08:20.560 World War Two, there were a lot of Communists involved 154 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:23.519 in this. The FBI was all around trying to weed 155 00:08:23.560 --> 00:08:27.279 those people out, and so they didn't necessarily want to share. 156 00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:32.000 But another thing, more generally is that for America, the 157 00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:35.039 Great Depression, people who lived through it share a lot 158 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:38.000 of like little anecdotes, but not so much the stories, 159 00:08:38.039 --> 00:08:43.080 because nineteen fifties America is like the American Decade, you know, 160 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:46.440 it's all about people coming up, people having more stuff, 161 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:51.159 consumer America, and the actual stories of the depression, like 162 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:54.919 the sad ones where people were powerless, weren't often shared. 163 00:08:55.519 --> 00:08:58.240 Throughout his research, Mitch learned that part of this lost 164 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:01.200 history included both sides of his face, and for their 165 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:04.519 own reasons, they had just never talked about it. He 166 00:09:04.639 --> 00:09:06.960 was determined to tell their story, as well as the 167 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:09.320 story of all the bootleg miners who had fought so 168 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:12.279 hard to take care of themselves in their communities when 169 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:15.759 their employers and the government abandoned them during the Great Depression. 170 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:19.200 The book starts with these two quotes, things happen in 171 00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:22.440 the Bootleg coal region that are almost unbelievable for anyone 172 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:25.799 not familiar with the whole story. Without their background, they 173 00:09:25.879 --> 00:09:30.919 sound utterly preposterous. They probably never happened anywhere before. They 174 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:34.000 couldn't have happened except in such a region, in such 175 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:37.799 a set of circumstances. That's the New York Times nineteen 176 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:40.919 thirty five. We don't know, we don't care who's supposed 177 00:09:40.919 --> 00:09:43.240 to own the land. God put that coal there, not 178 00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:47.159 the Philadelphia and Redding Coal Company. It's a quote from 179 00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:54.879 Mike McCloskey, a bootleg miner, And those two quotes just capture. 180 00:09:53.159 --> 00:09:54.279 The whole thing. 181 00:09:54.600 --> 00:09:56.840 To me, Like, if you only hear those two quotes, 182 00:09:56.879 --> 00:10:00.879 it gives you a good sense. I love how obstinate 183 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:04.600 the bootleg miner is, and how kind of funny and 184 00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:08.720 religious he is, and how he just puts it all 185 00:10:08.919 --> 00:10:11.840 right into that we don't care about who owns the land. 186 00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:16.240 In all the interviews, people don't say that they stole anything. 187 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:19.759 They say it was questionable, it wasn't clear who owned 188 00:10:19.759 --> 00:10:21.759 the land, or they didn't care who owned the land, 189 00:10:21.960 --> 00:10:25.879 or the company might have the paperwork, but they stole 190 00:10:25.960 --> 00:10:26.679 it at some point. 191 00:10:27.320 --> 00:10:29.240 And so that attitude is in there. 192 00:10:29.559 --> 00:10:32.240 And then just the specifics, God put that coal there, 193 00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:34.240 not the Philadelphia and Running Coal company. 194 00:10:34.679 --> 00:10:37.600 And in a way God did put it there three 195 00:10:37.720 --> 00:10:38.960 hundred million years ago. 196 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:44.759 So this history is like profoundly shaped by geology. None 197 00:10:44.799 --> 00:10:47.240 of this would have been possible without the geology, and 198 00:10:47.320 --> 00:10:51.960 in fact, the geology created the situation. Coal isn't dead dinosaurs, 199 00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:56.799 his dead plant material that Eonzigo sank to the bottom 200 00:10:56.840 --> 00:11:01.120 of oceans and then was compressed over time. Most of 201 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:04.960 the coal in the United States is either bituminous coal, 202 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:09.879 which you know that's West Virginia, Kentucky that kind, or lignite, 203 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:12.200 which is like a lower quality coal that. 204 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:13.080 They have out west. 205 00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:17.559 And then there's anthracite, which is found only in northeastern Pennsylvania. 206 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:20.720 Anthracite was put under a lot more pressure as the 207 00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:24.639 Appalachian Mountains formed, and through that process it was purified 208 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:27.879 more than other coals. It has the highest carbon content 209 00:11:28.039 --> 00:11:28.679 of any coal. 210 00:11:29.240 --> 00:11:32.159 Where the geography comes in is that squashing that forming 211 00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:36.519 of the mountains makes it so that it runs in 212 00:11:36.840 --> 00:11:39.960 these up and down wavy patterns through the land. Like 213 00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:44.080 coal in West Virginia Western Pennsylvania is more or less 214 00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:47.360 running horizontal, and so people get in there and mine 215 00:11:47.399 --> 00:11:51.519 it horizontally and also lends itself much more to mechanization, 216 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:54.759 whereas in the anthracite it's more like, I don't know, 217 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:57.159 think of the edge of like Lasagna pasta. 218 00:11:57.399 --> 00:11:58.519 The way it's wavy like that. 219 00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:01.480 This our regular pattern of coal makes it in some 220 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:04.039 ways harder to mine, but it also leads to the 221 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:06.320 coal taking on all sorts of weird shapes that the 222 00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:08.360 coal companies didn't bother trying to get to. 223 00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:12.679 And so mining anthracite coal, if you're at the bottom 224 00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:16.120 of the top of the arc, you're relatively horizontal, but 225 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:18.559 then there's all these slopes that can get really steep, 226 00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:19.480 almost vertical. 227 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:21.519 Well, that meant a lot of things. 228 00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:24.000 It meant that there was coal that it wasn't worth 229 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:26.559 the company's time to go after because it was too 230 00:12:27.559 --> 00:12:29.240 technically involved to mine vertically. 231 00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:32.679 It meant that it was less able to be automated. 232 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:35.360 But it also meant that there were veins of coal 233 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:38.039 that were easier to access without mining equipment. 234 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:39.639 And then this is a big deal. 235 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:43.200 It meant that there's outcroppings everywhere, meaning that the coal 236 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:45.679 comes up to the surface and you can see where 237 00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:48.240 it is. And the companies that are going after the 238 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:50.639 big veins, the thick veins that are like you know, 239 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:55.039 up to one hundred feet wide maybe, and there's all 240 00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:59.200 these other veins that are only a foot or two wide, 241 00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:02.200 and because of the outcroppings, you can just go up 242 00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:04.720 in the mountain and see where they are. And this 243 00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:08.720 is what made it possible for bootleggers to operate, because 244 00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:13.159 in other places in the country, the horizontal seems you 245 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:15.759 can see like the company controls the entrance to that 246 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:19.840 whole mine, whereas the bootleg miners were able to create 247 00:13:19.879 --> 00:13:21.919 their own entrances all over the mountain. 248 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:26.120 Historically speaking, everything that we've talked about in previous episodes 249 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:30.279 with bituminous coal company housing script, various waves of immigration 250 00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:33.919 tends to happen earlier in the Anthracite region, and. 251 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:37.159 So they started mining coal back before the Civil Wars started. 252 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:42.080 It really helps fuel the industrial revolution, helps fuel the 253 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:44.759 what would become the American war machine. 254 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:47.120 All these things, and just like. 255 00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:49.799 In our other coal episodes, the coal companies preyed on 256 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:53.360 and tricked desperate people into getting stuck in situations where 257 00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:56.240 every aspect of their life, from where they lived to 258 00:13:56.320 --> 00:13:59.320 where they shopped, what their children learned in school, what 259 00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:02.879 they heard in the churches, were under company control. Many 260 00:14:02.919 --> 00:14:06.360 companies didn't even pay their workers in US currency, offering 261 00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:09.120 instead to pay them in company script, which they could 262 00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:12.639 only spend at the company store. Many miners were tricked 263 00:14:12.679 --> 00:14:15.639 into predatory contracts where they take a job and have 264 00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:18.000 to go into debt at the company's store, buying all 265 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:20.679 their own equipment, only to never get paid a high 266 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:22.679 enough wage to actually pay off that debt. 267 00:14:23.200 --> 00:14:27.639 At first, it was mostly English and Welsh immigrants doing 268 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:30.440 this coal mining, and then the first big wave of 269 00:14:30.519 --> 00:14:33.600 immigration came after the Irish potato famine. You get lots 270 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:36.559 of Irish coming to what's now the coal region, going 271 00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:37.639 down into the mines. 272 00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:41.799 The Irish famine, like most famines, was largely man made, 273 00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:45.720 as British colonial authorities continued to export food from Ireland 274 00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:47.200 while the population starved. 275 00:14:47.600 --> 00:14:50.159 The miners at the time they tried to unionize. 276 00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:53.320 They tried to make these miserable conditions better for themselves 277 00:14:53.720 --> 00:14:56.639 through groups like the Worker's Benevolent Association, which was an 278 00:14:56.679 --> 00:15:01.639 early attempt at unionizing coal miners in America. But the 279 00:15:02.200 --> 00:15:06.480 Workers Benevolent Association was just crushed, just really crushed by 280 00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:07.480 the coal companies. 281 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:11.200 The Workers Benevolent Association was an attempt to organize not 282 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:13.519 just one mine, but all the mines in the region 283 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:16.720 in order to prevent open minds from undercutting others that 284 00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:19.759 were on strike. It was organized through an Irish group 285 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:24.120 called the Ancient Order of Hyperions, and being Irish, they 286 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:26.480 weren't about to take this union busting line down. 287 00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:31.399 And so when the unionization is crushed, the Irish miners 288 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:35.279 turned to what they know from their home country, which 289 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:40.200 is sort of midnight justice. And it's hard to know 290 00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:42.799 what to say about the Molly mcguires because most of 291 00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:45.360 what we know about the Molly mcguires comes from very 292 00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:49.960 very corrupt court cases where the coal companies owned everything 293 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:50.720 but the gallows. 294 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:52.200 Basically, what we. 295 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:55.720 Do know about the Molly mcguires, or whatever decentralized group 296 00:15:55.799 --> 00:15:58.320 came to be known and perceived as the Molly mcguires, 297 00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:00.759 is that in lieu of being able to unionize and 298 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:02.960 go on strike, they turned to sabotage. 299 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:07.799 They would give demands to a mind boss or a 300 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:11.919 company owner, and if those demands weren't meant, they might 301 00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:15.840 assassinate a mind boss or a company owner, or they 302 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:18.919 might burn down some equipment. What we don't know is 303 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:22.320 how tightly organized any of this was. Right, we don't 304 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:26.240 even know if the Molly mcguires really technically existed, but 305 00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:29.639 the coal companies made a good case for them existing 306 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:33.799 in court and use that to execute all their leaders. 307 00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:38.759 And those leaders, coincidentally or not coincidentally, were leaders of 308 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:41.879 the Worker's Benevolent Association in the ancient Order of Hiberian 309 00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:46.440 So they use it to wipe out the Irish leadership basically, 310 00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:48.799 whether they had been involved in that stuff or not. 311 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:52.960 Here's minor Jack Champion in an interview with Michael Cazera. 312 00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:57.799 The Molly mcguires, Yeah, theyse failed and Ireland the potato 313 00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:03.279 market or whatever. The crop failed. The Irish migrated into 314 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:06.599 America in droves. This is where it was. 315 00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:07.200 The work. 316 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:12.519 The cold mining was in its heyday, coal mining, and 317 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:15.799 there was jobs here of plenty for them. The big 318 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:20.960 companies build homes for these families. Of course, then when 319 00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:24.279 you work for the companies, when you got your pay, 320 00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:28.039 they got their book out, said well, you owe rent, 321 00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:32.119 you owe for boots, you owe for a work, clothes 322 00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:36.680 you got, you owe for your lunch bucket, and everything 323 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:39.240 went to the company store, as the old song went 324 00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:44.720 for that company's softmore region. But it was true, you 325 00:17:44.839 --> 00:17:48.799 owe your life to the company's store. The Morney maguire's 326 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:51.880 got a bum rap and they were to ask that 327 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:55.599 the movie put them made them out to be. And 328 00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:58.359 they came into the mines and the mines is very, 329 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:06.000 very tough. Yeah, safety was unheard of. And that's when 330 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:08.799 the Bow and Anon reason. The miner got sick and 331 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:11.319 he didn't show up for work. Where is that man? 332 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:14.119 He's at home sick. They go and drag him out 333 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:17.119 of bed and drag him to work. They forced them 334 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:20.599 in the well, we got unionized. That's what the Marllies get. 335 00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:24.599 They were the forerunners of unionism in America, and they 336 00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:27.119 got a bum racked. They were for the miners and 337 00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:28.960 the companies were really. 338 00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:33.359 Ball champion told because that the Molly mcguires are a 339 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:36.559 prime example of the way coal miners are often misunderstood. 340 00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:39.839 This nation thinks we are a bunch of rascals, the miners. 341 00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:41.359 So we're stand enough for your rights. 342 00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:42.200 You were fighting for. 343 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:43.839 Justice, that's right. 344 00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:48.240 Yeah. All we wanted was a fair wage, and they 345 00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:51.440 wouldn't give you a fair way. I mean I didn't 346 00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:53.480 work in the days in the mines, in the days 347 00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:56.400 of the company store, but like our fathers didn't. And 348 00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:59.039 everybody waits for pay them when you can no pay, 349 00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:01.759 here's a slip. I owed them twenty five cents, so 350 00:19:01.839 --> 00:19:05.119 maybe I got seventy five cents. But your gros was 351 00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:09.400 taken care of. You could buy anything in their general stores. 352 00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:14.920 The company stores had everything. They had mining supplies, everything, 353 00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:18.000 see you how to buy or rain dynamite, then your 354 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:20.880 own fuels, your own blasting gaps. 355 00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:22.680 So then people were left with. 356 00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:26.000 Nothing, and the lessons of the Molly mcguires would come 357 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:29.440 into play a lot for the bootleg miners, because the 358 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:31.920 thing about the Mollies is once they were destroyed, no 359 00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:35.640 one talked about it. Every the generations that were alive 360 00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:39.000 for that didn't speak of it. And it wasn't until 361 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:42.279 the early nineteen hundreds that the history of the Modeley 362 00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:47.200 mcguires even came to be history again, because to speak 363 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:51.319 of the Molly mcguires after that period was to blacklist yourself, 364 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:53.799 was to make yourself run out of the core region. 365 00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:58.279 And so it stayed quiet, although some people called the 366 00:19:58.599 --> 00:19:59.799 bootleg miners, called. 367 00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:01.119 Them the with Molly McGuire's. 368 00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:04.839 Sometime after the Molly mcguires had been crushed, the United 369 00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:08.480 Mineworkers formed in the bituminous coal region of Illinois as 370 00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:12.359 an attempt to unionize across many mines. They sent organizers 371 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:15.599 to the Anthracite region around nineteen hundred. One of the 372 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:18.359 key moments in their attempts to organize the Anthracite region 373 00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:20.799 would become known as the Latimer Massacre. 374 00:20:21.319 --> 00:20:23.920 This is kind of traditional with minor strikes, is if 375 00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:27.039 it started at one mine, the miners would shut down 376 00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:29.400 production there and then just march to another mine and 377 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:31.880 call those people out on strike, and from there march 378 00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:34.839 to another one and another one to see to get 379 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:38.000 their strike as big as possible. And Latimer was a 380 00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:41.200 small town, a company town near Hazelton, and they were 381 00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:43.880 marching from mind to mind calling everyone out on strike 382 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:47.519 when company police opened fire. 383 00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:50.839 On a group of marchers and kill a large number of. 384 00:20:50.920 --> 00:20:56.200 Them, and that sort of the anger over this singular 385 00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:59.759 event really ended up helping fuel organizing. 386 00:20:59.359 --> 00:20:59.920 In that region. 387 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:04.279 As we've discussed in other episodes about coal mining solidarity 388 00:21:04.359 --> 00:21:06.680 as a part of mining culture to his very core, 389 00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:10.799 and especially during strikes or mind closures, taking care of 390 00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:14.160 each other was a community effort, with families, women and 391 00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:16.240 children all playing important roles. 392 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.480 And also we have a lot of great stories, some 393 00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:21.880 of which are in this book of like how the 394 00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:24.640 communities were at that time and who was playing key roles, 395 00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:28.640 particularly women, and how I think it was in Latimer 396 00:21:28.759 --> 00:21:32.799 particularly where like the men didn't largely want to go 397 00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:35.599 on strike, but the women of the town demanded that 398 00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:38.240 they did and drove them out there and held the 399 00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:40.599 picket lines to make sure no men crossed over. 400 00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:44.440 Into the mind that was on strike here. 401 00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:48.039