Speaker 1: Hello everyone, Welcome back to a new episode of the
Poker Go Podcast. My name is Donnie Peters. His name
is Tim Duckworth. It's been a month. Yeah, it has
been a month. Ye. I don't think it's been fully
a month. So, I mean, I know we promised pretty
much going back to weekly cadence, but you know, needed
some rest and relaxation slash laziness slash not laziness because
we're gotten the way. But we're back. We are back.
We are in the Poker gro studio right now. We
also have a new table. Yeah, this was taken from
the set of the National Heads of Poker Championship. I
think we got to get a new felt or something.
You put some stuff on it. I feel like this
is going to be our podcast table now. We have upgraded.
We have upgraded, so it's a little shaky, okay, but
you know we'll make it work. Of course for you guys.
It is Thursday, August fourteenth. Got to do the time.
It's one. We're gonna take it back in time a
little bit. We're gonna wrap up SOMEBSIP stuff. Not gonna
be talking about it too much, but there are some
results that we didn't hit on that. I just want
to kind of mention, you know, put a bow on that,
and then we're gonna lead into the play Player of
the Year. There were some, uh what's some debate around
the WAP Player of the Year that I kind of
want to get Tim's thoughts on. Of course I'll try
and give mine as well. Just some general w SIPPY stats.
Coming off of that, we're gonna wrap up twenty five
K Fantasy. We did not win wamp wamp but whatever,
not a big deal. It is what it is. Uh,
the PGT leader board, we got to hit on that.
We're coming off a big season, a lot of sp
events qualified. Of course there was the Aria high Roller
events that played a big part in it as well.
So we'll touch on where the pg leaderboard stands because
we are about two two and a half weeks out
from the PGT coming back. September is a massive, shout out,
massive month for the PGG, so we're going to talk
about that. I want to hit on the seminal hard
Rock pokeerre Open two reasons. One a very cool winner
and then two you and I are going to debate
this ridiculous three card ruling situation. I absolutely cannot wait
to debate this silliness with you. But yeah, that's what
we're going to hit on today. Of course, if you
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see you at the tables. I've been playing every single
day for the past week. I'm on a heater, can't lose,
flopping sets left, right and center. I'm not joking. It's incredible.
So yeah, so if you want to get in on
the action, I'll see you at the playpoker go dot
com tables. You can just look for the custom avatar
that looks like me. Okay, yeah, I'm SI way in
for mine. Yeah. Well, you got to get on that
deal with the producer Rich. He's in charge of that.
Get on that. All right, Let's slide into these long
overdue do ws AP results that we need to touch on.
First up, Chad Evesledge won the twenty five k horse
He topped the field of one hundred and fifty entries
to win eight hundred and eighty three thousand dollars, his
fourth gold bracelet. This event had one hundred and twenty
entries last year, so a nice big uptick from the
year prior. Eas Sledge defeated Brian rast, Toby Lewis was third,
Notcho Barbara fourth, Ryan Miller fifth, Phil Ivy sixth, John
Hennigan seventh, and Chris hunikin Big Huny eighth place. In
that event, Andrew astub Chenko finally got his gold bracelet.
He finished second in the twenty five k earlier in
the series. Here he wins the five K no ole
him at hold him to close out his summer. An
enormous summer for Andrew Ostupchenko. He got his first goal bracelet.
This win here earned him six hundred and six thousand dollars.
He topped a field of seven hundred and thirty five entries.
I don't think there is an event that corresponds to
last year so for this specific one, and I don't
think there was a five K this late. I'm pretty
sure there was seven thirty five entries, and I remember
trying to look up if there was a you know,
relating field size to see if this one went up
or down, and I couldn't find one unless I'm just
a total idiot, which could certainly be the case. Ostap
Chenko won more than two million dollars at the twenty
twenty five WSIP. I mentioned that he had that big
score second place in the twenty five K that was
more than a million dollars. He also went on to
finish third in a Venetian event after this win for
eighty five K.
Speaker 2: There this event ninety nine.
Speaker 3: Is a defending champion, Matthew Alasante. It was that like
early in the series. Yeah, it's probably one of those
ones that they moved around.
Speaker 1: I really don't like when they moved them around.
Speaker 3: You gotta put away you, uh where do you think
they kind of fool best?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't.
Speaker 2: Last year was event eighty seven, so it's failing.
Speaker 1: So that's that's my fault. I'm the idiot. I mean
I said I could have been the idiot. I'm the idiot,
all right, So there's that. Now. Interesting note about Andrew
Ostupchenko here. He was on his own team in twenty
five K team Liaison, and his win here allowed them
to finish in fifth place, which is in the money,
so more money in astib Chenko's pocket. So austin Chenko
first place, six hundred and six K, Brandon Wilson second place,
four or four, David O. dB Baker shout out ODB
two hundred and eighty three k for him Van van
Merdino magas K. I probably butchered the living crap out
of that one. I'm out of I'm out of rhythm,
you know, I'm trying to figure these names out on
the fly. Two hundred and one k for him, Joseph
sob Or Sabie, also butchering that last name. One hundred
and forty five K. Sam Lasquitz got sixth place. Pat
Lyons World Famous pat Lyons got seventh place, and Marcos
Scurl got eighth place. In that one, Lucas Zascodni wins
the closer top in a field of four two hundred
and ninety seven entries fifteen hundred dollars by and there
he took home six hundred and forty eight thousand dollars.
Richard Ali second, Lock Chan third, Thing Tran fourth, Adrian
Tivodar fifth, Dylan Lamby kind of close to Dylan Lindy
in terms of the spell. Yeah, I mean it might be,
is it. Huh, It's not Dylan Lindy, Like I didn't
like mistake that or something in auto correct or something.
I'm just I'm just making sure it's been it's been
almost four weeks so I'm trying to figure this out.
Jimmy Settina seventh, Victor Cavallero eighth, and Tiwi II got
ninth place. There, Mitchell Hinem, you, oh boy, right, my boy.
If you guys remember this, A hole busted me in
the WS event, his ace, Queen, my kings. I will
never forget Mitchell Heinem. But congrats to you, sir. You
went on to win the one K Super Turbo, topping
the field of nineteen hundred and thirty five entries. I
say it all in jest with the whole coming at you.
But if I see you at the table and I
have ase, Queen, I'm never fooled. Ever, I gotta repay it. Okay.
He finished forty ninth in the main event after busting
my ass cast for two hundred K. So he casts
for two hundred K in the main event. Then he
goes on to win this turbo for two hundred and
thirty seven thousand, almost two hundred and thirty eight thousand, So
pretty good week or so for Mitchell Heinem. Not off
bitten second place, Kai Tanaka third place, Nevin Chang fourth,
Jacob Parent fifth, Lucas Hafner sixth, Brettschaef for seventh, Paulina Loliger,
she is a what's her poker bunnyy eighth place, Alex
Duval ninth place. That all takes us too. The WSP
Player of the Year which went two. My boy Sean Deep,
Your boy Sean Deep his second time winning it. He
won in twenty eighteen. He wins it in twenty twenty five.
He joins Daniel Legrand who as the only two time
winners of the WSP Player of the Year award. Of course,
it has not been around forever. It was installed in
two thousand and four. Nigraney won it in two thousand
and four. He then won it in twenty thirteen. Deep
got first in the one hundred k PO events for
almost three million dollars. He got second in the fifteen
hundred dollars RAS for eighty four K second you know
one k Nolan hold him for one hundred and fifty four
k second in an online event, which I think one
online event counts one on my cash counts. And then
third in the ten k PLO eight that was the
one that Phil Sternheimer won. Sean Deep took home a
three hundred and forty eight K There The question that
everyone was debating is should Sean Deep have won? Benny
Clauser won three bracelets, won them pretty early the series,
all things considered, Michael Msrocky the Grinder won the fifty
KPPC then won the WSP main event. There was a
lot of debates.
Speaker 3: I mean, what do you think it's undebatable because there's
a scoring system. Everyone is aware of the scoring system
heading into the World Series, and his results put him
on top. Now we can't say that, hey, Benny didn't
have a great World Series and Grinder didn't have a
world's great World Series and all these other guys like
Mark Gabrell and you know, we can the list goes on.
But everyone was equal fording heading into the World Series
with a scoring system that is send me public, right.
You have to do some calculations and figure it out,
but yeah, it's available just like ours is. So I
don't think it's unfair at all. You can make an
argument that, hey, should things be weighed differently, like does
winning the fifty KPPC, winning the ten k main event
and cashing I think thirteen times total?
Speaker 2: Is that better than what he did?
Speaker 3: Now that's going to be a personal opinion if people
really think that's the case and they need to change
the scoring. But he did everything within the parameters that
were outlined heading into the World Series, so I don't
think it's even debatable.
Speaker 1: I agree with you, D one. Based on the scoring
criteria as outlined ahead of time. Everyone knows this criteria
going in. They know, you know, it's this many live cashes,
it's one online cash that counts. It's you know, you
can't just rack up eight thousand cases you have, it's capped,
all that sort of stuff. So yeah, based on the
scoring system, D one, he's the winner. I mean that
that's just how it is. At one point, Benny Klauser
had won three bracelets and wasn't even technically eligible to
win Player of the Year because he didn't have enough cases. Yeah,
he also have to be a minimum threshold five cashes, right,
it's five or six.
Speaker 2: One or the other.
Speaker 1: But he would like I think, you know, it's like
he had three cashes and three bracelet wins or whatever,
and you know it wasn't technically eligible until he hit
that cash threshold. So I find it interesting the Play
of the Year because it seems like every year a
good portion of the one percenters, the Deeps, the helm Use,
the Negroan New's josh Aria, like all these guys, they
always rant and rave about Player of the Year, and
yet the scoring system probably needs work. I think it
needs work. I don't know exactly how I would do it,
but I think it does need some sort of fine tuning.
So there's that. Also the fact that you don't really
get anything. I mean, you get I think you obviously
get a banner, and you get I think a ten
k seat to the end.
Speaker 3: Of a say, and you do get a trophy. Deep
did show me his trophy? Yes, I mean it's not
like a bracelet. It's literally just a trophy.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it may be cool. I make it a
bracelet to be honest.
Speaker 1: Uh No, I don't think so. No, but I think
you should. I think with as it's pretty clear that
all these players, and they're they're pretty top tier players,
carry crap ton about this. Yeah, And I would say
that the WSOPE cares enough because they obviously want to
celebrate it by putting a banner. The only other people
that get banners are THESTREMIINU event winners, right, So I
just think they need to They need to add more
to this and maybe now we get that under the
GG poker umbrella right where they dedicate some funds to it.
They make it more of a leaderboard thing. They make
the tracking better and more out there and more efficient
where it's more readily available instead of people trying to
figure it out on the fly, like where do I
have to cash? What are the points? What's this? What's that?
Speaker 3: You know, there's no reason why with the new app
we can't have you know, basically live tracking. You know,
we can have a live leadable the app, you know,
and maybe that's coming. Maybe they didn't want to just
be like have too many things with the app, you know,
with its first year at the World Series here in
Vegas at least, But that I think is good. I
think you know, WSP itself, whether it's through their social
media or the editorial website, needs more updates on it,
you know, ideally daily updates plus so like lots of
social posts. You know, this person just finished fifth, he
now moves into second or something. You can make it
a storyline yourself. If you just let it live, it's
gonna be much harder to really generate that interest.
Speaker 1: I mean, there should be a tab within the app. Yeah,
and you can go and it has that leaderboard and
like you said, it's it's much more lives. And as
soon as somebody busts out and you know, it goes
into the verification because when you bust out in the app,
it does say like need to verify whatever. It says
for a second until it gets very It takes a
few minutes, it gets verified whatever, then it's in there.
I mean, once that happens, it should feed through the points.
Speaker 3: But it also should be in the payouts, you know,
like on the WSP website when they used to have
the live updates, they used to have the payout and
have to have the points you would get. There's no
reason why that couldn't be. Serhaps so when people are looking,
because that's you know, obviously house players, but viewers and fans,
they're looking although, what's this, what's this third column here?
What's this points? And then you start like, you know,
digging deep kind of like what we do with ours.
We know, we have our payouts, we have the prizes,
and we have the PGT points and you know, it
does generate that interest. My one thought on Player of
the Year outside of all this, and you know, the
changing the points formula is a big Pandora's box. I
don't know if we want to get into because this
is so many points for them.
Speaker 2: Was what's correct?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: How should they overvalue things? But I think it needs
one more online result. You have thirty three bracelet of
online bracelet events and and you have not you have
one hundred live bracelet events, right, I.
Speaker 1: Mean clearly they want to live.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but like it's not enough of it. I don't
think it's the right percentage. I'm not saying it needs
to be like, like, you know, an equal percentage. I
think one more online cash would be kind of fair.
So it's eight and two. I think that's kind of
the best way because I think you need to still
provide value to.
Speaker 2: Online or just have an online leader work.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean it is tricky. It's tricky. Yeah,
I don't I don't exactly. I don't exactly know what
to do. You know, I would have to think about
a little bit more. I personally, I lean that online
should count in full, like you should be able to
get thirty three cashes from online, you know, or whatever.
Just and my reasoning is that it has never been
told to us that online bracelets are not equal to
live bracelets. I mean, I know people joke out there
that they say this is a fake bracelet. This isn't
a fake bracelet, like you know whatever. But as far
as WSP's concerned, a bracelet is a bracelet. It doesn't
matter if you win it in fucking Antarctica or if
you win it in Las Vegas at the Horseshoe. A
bracelet is a bracelet, Okay, So if a bracelet is
a bracelet, then aren't all things equal. Isn't an online
event a one K plo online event the same as
one K at the series, It's the same thing. Brace
is a bracelet, And some some might argue I think
there's a fair argument that online is harder to win
generally speaking at I mean, I don't I don't know
exactly how it compares for the summer, because I think
everything gets a little bit softer in the summer, But
generally speaking, online has always been thought to be harder
than live across all across everywhere, But then you have.
Speaker 2: To factor in field sizes and stuff.
Speaker 1: I know, but I'm saying, but still everywhere like it,
online is considered to be harder than live, right, you
know they say like, yeah, one hundred dollars tournament online
is like a one k live. So if you went
a one k online or deep got second in that
online event, what was the buy in five hundred? So
what's that three k live? You know? It's like so
I don't know. I just I'm kind of I don't
kind of bouncing all over the place with this, but yeah,
I just generally think that first and foremost, I think
just like getting it in the app and making it
a little bit more front and center, and fixing the
efficiency aspect of the points. It should be the priority.
Right If you want to keep the criteria and the
scoring the same, I'm fine with that. And honestly, everyone
knows going in Like Phil Helmuth had, you know, a
tweet he kind of went at Deep like the whole thing,
and it's like you knew going into the summer. Everyone
knows going into summer, these are the points. This is
what counts. There's this many live events account, there's this
many online events account. This is how it is. Everyone
knows that. So what's the big deal. If that's how
it is, then adjust your schedule and your play accordingly,
which I think is probably Deep's biggest advantage. He understands
the how in terms of winning Player of the Year
better than everyone, and he caters his schedule and his
play to achieving player of the year, like that's his
goal now along the way. That can come with money,
that can come with cashes, that can come with bracelets,
et cetera. But he's ultimately trying to win Player of
the Year. So he's doing whatever it takes to win
Player of the Year. Other people are not necessarily out
like that. Like I don't think Benny Glasser is out
to win Player of the Year like he's out to
I think win bracelets. And this is just me guessing,
but I think he's out to win bracelets and then
if Player of the Year comes with it, great, whereas
Sean Deep is almost the other way. I'm out to
win Player of the Year and stamp my you know,
put my stamp on HI or history that way, winning
multiple SB Player of the Year titles and if you know, yes,
a natural side effect of that is you're probably gonna
win bracelets. But there's also a world where like Deep
cat has ten second places and he's able to win
Player of the year and he doesn't win a bracelet
a given year, right, So I just think that everyone can.
You can kind of cater what you want to go
after every single summer and and deep clearly goes after
Player of the Year in my opinion, And you know,
so don't complain about it when you have the option
to do that yourself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it shows that how he nearly won two
bracelets while the main event Day one's were going because
he won the payloa and then he finished second. He
won two bracelets and really stamped his Player of the
Year while Day one of the main event was still going.
So yeah, he does everything Tyler towards Player of the Year.
That's what he cares about. And I don't think we
can really knock anything to do, you know with this
years when.
Speaker 1: On my bone to pick is with the way that
it's kind of pushed out and marketed after the fact,
Like the press really said that he cashed eighteen live
bracelet events, six online bracelet events, reached five file tables,
one of seventh career bace of blah blah blah. But
all of that doesn't count towards Player of the Year. Sure,
but it's still what he did though, I understand, but
I feel like I feel like it should be outlined,
like what he did to achieve Player of the Year,
because in a way, I feel like if you just
kind of skim things and no one reads things in full,
everyone skims, ye, right, if you skim, And the biggest
skim is along these lines. If you just look at
the social media posts that they did, they had an
image of Sean Deep and they put on that image, right,
like the achievements that he had, which are twenty four cashes,
five final tables, one bracelet, So you would you might
think if you just saw this, if you just saw that,
and on social media, and we know how people scroll
these days, they have an intention span of a mesquite
of a gnat, like it's just they're all over the place.
So you see that, you say, oh, like he cashed
twenty four times, he racked up cashes, he made five
pound tables, whatever, but not all that stuff counted.
Speaker 2: So it's incorrect as well.
Speaker 1: Well, what I don't care if it's incorrect or not.
Like I'm just saying, like, we put the caps on things.
The dove has to be put the caps on things.
But then they're celebrating the thing in.
Speaker 2: Full, I don't have so much.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying it's like a disconnect. Yeah, I think
you should just celebrate it in the context of what
the criteria is, because then it then it makes it
I think a little bit more connected to like this
is how you win Player of the Year. Yeah, that's
my slight bone to pick there, but whatever. I think
the big thing is, you got to get in the app.
You got to get that. You got to get this
stuff updated quickly so people can sweat like right away,
you know. I think that would be certainly a lot
of fun to haven't And I would guess because of
what we saw the first year of the app and
how there was a lot of updates along the way
and things were changing and getting better. You know, it
was great out of the gate, and then it got
better throughout. I think we'll see a lot more improvements
even still for for next year in years to come,
and I think that this is probably one of them.
All right, next topic, biggest winners. I put winners in
quotes on our rundown because you can kind of think
of this, how you want I put down a bunch
maybe you can add to to things. But these are
biggest quote unquote winners not named Michael the Grinder, miss Rocky.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: And my reasoning is that I think I don't know
who said it, Yeah, kind of like I don't. I don't.
I don't remember who said it, and it might have
actually been Shawnee, but I can't remember exactly. So forgive
me if you're out there and I'm butchering this. But
somebody said, like shawnde one w S Player of the Year,
but the twenty twenty five divis a p will be
remembered for Michael mcrocky. Yeah, like you know, so what
So that's what I mean, Like the quote unquote winners,
the storylines, like when we think back on you know,
let's say twenty years from now, say remember that, remember
the year when Michael mcrocky did this, right, and then
and then you're gonna say, like that was also the
year that this happened. And that's the list that I'm
trying to like, also the year that Benny Glasser won
three bracelets, you know, like that sort of stuff, right,
Like that's what we're gonna get at here. My kind
of notes that I put down here. Sina Okamoto won
the WSP Ladies Championship after finishing first the year before,
so she goes back to back and then the year
before that finishes second. Like that's gonna be something We're
gonna remember the time Sheina Oka Goodo went second first first,
You remember that, like that shit was crazy? Remember the
time when Leo Marguetz finished seventh in the WSB main
event for one point five million buck's a thirty year trend.
There no woman at the at the final table. Seth
Davies won his first bracelet. You know, I think this
one is me using a little bit of editorial license
because it's kind of in the context of how good
Seth Davies has been the past two year and a
half to two years. He's won everything under the sun.
He's probably won twenty million dollars in the past two
years or something ridiculous. So, you know, just that cherry
on the top of his first bracelet, and the fact
that it came in the two hundred fifty k Super
high Roller, which is an event that he you know,
would probably want to win more so than anything else.
I mean obviously that ever main event, but you know,
we always put that to the side. Martin Cabrel summer.
I mean, we're certainly going to remember that summer, all
the antics, the colorful stuff, you know. Whatever he wins
the mini main event, he's challenging for WSB Player of
the Year throughout, like he's on the rail when Sean
Deep was making those runs, like, you know, having like
the banter and the competitiveness with Deep the whole time.
I personally feel like he won over a ton of fans.
I think I feel like last year he was clearly
a villain last summer, two summers ago, whatever that was,
but the whole fake card marking and you know, all
that sort of stuff. But this year, I feel like
he certainly won over the fans. Andrew Ostupchenko, we already
talked about him, but this one I think is certainly
going to get overlooked had that second in the twenty
five K, won the bracelet in the five K, Like
I feel like this is I personally have always felt
Andrew ossup Chenko was a very very good player, and
he's known within the poker circle. But I feel like
this is one of those summers where you win a
boatload of money, you know, more than two million dollars
and it's gonna be like, yeah, that was his his breakout.
Like that was when people started to really recognize andre Osupchenko.
Alex Foxen fourteen cashes for more than four million dollars,
I mean every day, this guy was just going deep.
Blajerry Off, I mean you want to talk about breakout, Yeah,
players from the WSP, this guy was. No one knew
that this guy was. I mean maybe Patrick Landard knew
who this guy was. Other than that blajerry Off. He
wins the twenty five K six Max. Then he wins
the fifteen hundred dollars Stud High Low. So two bracelets
for bla Jerry Off out of nowhere, out of absolutely nowhere,
which is very cool. So shout out to blag breakout WSIP.
Hopefully we see you win embracelets for years to come.
Brian Rast another incredible year for Brian Rass won the
ten k ras he got second the twenty five k
horse that's the one we just talked about that had
east Sledge one and he had fourteen cashes overall. Nick
Schulman he won the ten k Nolan MEDUSA seven and
then he gets inducted into the Poker Hall of Fame.
I mean pretty cool summer for Nick Schulman. Joo Vieira
won the Hunter, K got a fourth and a fifth
as well. David Odb Baker shout out to odb first
in the Senior's high Roller for six hundred and forty
six K almost wins another bracelet in another five K,
third in that one that andros Upchenko won for two
hundred and eighty three K. Benny Glauser, I mentioned him
at the top. You know, he had those three bracelets.
We've talked about him throughout. Victor Blam had a great
summer second, fourth, fifth, six tenth. I would kind of
put him on like an honorable mention list, you know,
very good year. But the thing with Victor and like
why didn't put him on, Like why would consider him
more honorable mention than not? Is because the story with
Victor Blam was is he gonna get his first bracelet
and he ultimately didn't. So I feel like that one
falls short a little bit. Yeah, now he had a
very very good summer and he's gonna win a bracelet
and probably any of them in his career, but this
summer not not yet. Daniel Legrandu, I mean this guy
was like deep every day, Yeah, second, fourth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh, fifteenth,
just about.
Speaker 2: Online as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean just just crushed. I mean that's another thing.
By the way, we talked about fixing the Player of
the Year, So they got to fix the online, Like
it's got to get the results out there. You got
to get you got to talk about it more, put
it out like what you had no idea what was
going on online? Phil Ivy had a fifth to sixth,
the sixth and ninth another really good year for him.
So so yeah, you know, all things considered, those are
kind of my like, you know, yeah, Michael Mrocky did
this SHAWANDE one Player of the Year and that caused
that whole stir. But this is also what happened from
this summer. I mean, all of this stuff collectively, including
the miss Rocky, including SHAWNDE winning Player of the Year,
Like this is one of the best of yssipes ever,
if not the best of hisipy ever. From like a
headline storyline.
Speaker 3: Perspective, Yeah, I'll throw it one more in there. It's
probably not as big as this, but I think it
needs to be. Josh for media. Two bracelets, both online
but both live, like one of those hybrid events crazy.
He won two a couple of years ago, so he
has four bracelets already. Obviously he has the WSP main
event found table, And when we're talking overlooked, no one
probably has any idea about that. So that's probably pretty
pretty big thing. It's not gonna be even remembered at
all when it comes to this World Series, but it's
just something that we want to talk overlooked results.
Speaker 1: I think that one is for sure, that one's definitely yeah, yeah,
this was. This was simply an incredible WSP from start
to finish. So those are some quote unquote winners that
that might be overlooked, but that we're always going to
remember for some truly incredible accomplishments. I'm sure we miss some.
I'm sure we missed a whole bunch. So if we did,
you guys know the drill. You can send us a
post on Twitter, you can email us, podcasts at PokerGO
dot com, you can do whatever. Let us know, you
can comment on this YouTube video. Let us know. You know,
forgive us if you're a player and we overlooked you.
But yeah, there was there was just so much stuff
happen all summer long, and it was. It was truly
incredible from start to finish. So shout out to everyone
who had a great, great great summer twenty twenty five
Doubasippy stats. This was per the WASIP press release, two
hundred and forty six thousand, nine hundred and sixty total entries.
That is an all time record. Now they also had
the most events ever, but it wasn't that big of
an increase over last year. Last year was ninety nine
live events. This year was one hundred live events, so
it's not like they went from ninety nine to one
hundred and twenty, right, So I think having a seven
point five percent increase there is really really good. They
had two hundred and twenty nine thousand, five hundred and
ninety nine last year, so that's very good.
Speaker 3: Those are added though, like six days of play, so
we have to sure in those those the bigger field events.
So I think that Matt has been Yeah, that still
still it's it's still impressive.
Speaker 1: Twy four hundred and sixty nine entries per event. Last
year was twenty three hundred and nineteen, so the average
event size grew by six point five percent. I just
talked about the the overall increase was seven point five
percent in entries, So I think it's a real increase
in demand. I think is a good way to categorize it.
I don't just think it's it's schedule inflation. I think
they did a really good thing, you know, all things considered.
I did not see if that was if that two
hundred and forty six nine and sixty includes the online stuff.
I don't think it does, but I don't I could
be wrong. I have some questions for you.
Speaker 2: Sure, go ahead.
Speaker 1: So two hundred and forty six thousand plus entries almost
two hundred and forty seven thousand entries, so there's clearly
still a ton of demand for the w S a P.
I mean, what do you think drove the demand? Like,
is this kind of where you thought numbers would come in?
Did you see this think that there would be an increase?
I know, if you want to, you know, rewind and
before the summer, you and I thought kind of like,
maybe there's the travel stuff from international, maybe there's this,
maybe there's that. So you know, what are your thoughts
when you see and hear those numbers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it felt like the travel stuff by the end
of it didn't we stopped talking about it pretty early on.
Speaker 2: Obviously probably did have a factor. It's hard to tell
on us.
Speaker 3: We could look at those, you know, unique country numbers,
that'd be a better indication of if that really affected
out those I wish we could, yeah, if that really
affected the entrance. I think there's a lot of things
when it comes to these numbers. Focus growing here in America,
it's burning. One key thing, and I think it maybe slightly.
Speaker 1: Are you sure it's booming. I think it's because if
you look on social media, people think it's absolutely like dead.
It's we need to get it on ESPN and all.
Speaker 3: This sort of stuff. ESPN's also free as well. I
think one key thing, and this would be nearly impossible
to quantify a bit. You got to look at like
the cryptocurrency market and the stock market. And what I
say by that is you look at the bitcoin prices.
Speaker 1: Up only huh up only? What do you mean up only?
Those things only go up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But like what I mean is world series. This
is bigcoin. Bitcoin is about one hundred k starting woph.
Speaker 1: Mart, It's bitcoin. It's the dovers f only.
Speaker 2: Bigcoin was about one hundred k.
Speaker 3: The side of the world series last year at the
same time it was about sixty K.
Speaker 2: Now, did that affect our schedules? Yours and mine?
Speaker 3: Not at all, right, but I'm sure it affected a
lot of people's, you know, amount of events they played,
how much liquidity they had, saying with the stock market,
obviously stock market's probably a bit more of an influence
on you and me's money, and that's up. But that
really didn't change my decisions. But when you're talking two
hundred and forty thousand entrants, I'm sure it had some
weight in the bullets they were playing. And then the
big thing, and also another thing that will be hard
to quantify is just the app the East the Reebui right,
like the quick to just get in straight away and
I have to wait in lines. Now, if they were
able to take the winnings to go straight into the app,
I think that would even increase numbers more because you
could cash the twenty five.
Speaker 1: K, So you could do that. I thought you could
do that.
Speaker 3: You still have to go and do you have to
go to the cage?
Speaker 1: Oh, you're saying like you had to go to that room?
They would say how do you want it? Yeah, and
then you can say I want automatically deposited. Let's say
I cash for Let's say I played a one k
and cash for ten k and there was a ten
k six bax, I should just be able to go
buy in with the ten k and not actually I
have to go to the red.
Speaker 3: Now that might not make much of a difference. Could
be talking you know, minu percentage points. But those little
things going forward, those kind of things will dictate kind
of the growth of those kind of overall numbers.
Speaker 1: I agree with you. The THESP plus app was a
big element in all of this. I just think the
ease of it all. Yeah, there was no lines. Stration
seemed extremely fluid. You know, a couple of clicks of
the button, you know, once you get in and you know,
do the sign of process registration, dump your money and
all that sort of stuff. Very very very simple. I
think we talked a little bit about what we want
from you know, the WSP app going forward, you know,
with Player of the Year and stuff like that. You
just mentioned the payout thing, any other like upgrades, scalability items,
you know, what would you like to see in terms
of like the WSP plus app evolution, because I think
it's pretty clear now having been through a full summer
with it, that this is such an important element of
everything as it relates to the ws BE going forward.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they're really good at making changes on
the fly and edits on the fly and listening to
people's whether it was complaints or suggestions. So very confident
in the app going forward. Outside of those points we've
kind of said, outside of money automatically deposit, I'm not
really sure right now what could be added, but I'm sure.
Speaker 1: You got link WSP dot com online and the app.
Speaker 3: It should all be like the bankrolls, you mean, like
the cash like I feel like it should all be linked. Yeah,
that's actually probably a good idea, but there's probably some
potential Novada gaming in that.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, okay, oh, real names. You gotta have real Yeah,
the real names. I think you should be real names.
Doesn't need real fight, but real names one hundred percent.
There's probably some small design things that you know, I know,
kind of grinted your gears with size of the fonts
and stuff. So then maybe there's some more customer mobility
where you can, like, you know, on your phone, how
you can go old man mode and get really big,
or you can go really small. Maybe that maybe you can
have zoom like bigger Finn or smaller fund as an
option for users.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that. More stats from the WSP
press release as it wrapped up the summer more than
four hundred and eighty one million dollars in total prize money.
That's the most amount of total prize money awarded in
wsity history. Of course, that makes sense given the fact
that they had the most entries ever thirty seven thousand,
three hundred and eleven places paid, so that is the
highest number of unique payouts in Wissippi history. Forty three
is the number of one million dollars or greater prizes
one across the twenty twenty five series. The Millionaire Maker
event attracted almost twelve thousand entries nine hundred and ninety six.
That set a record for the largest buy in fifteen
hundred dollars event in live tournament poker history. That's pretty
freaking incredible. The Mid Stakes Championship got three thousand, seven
hundred and ninety seven entries, becoming the largest three thousand
dollars buy in field ever. Very very cool there. The
Mystery Bounty PLO event two hundred and eighty four entries.
That's freaking enormous. I just forgot how big some of
these numbers are. That established itself as the largest PLO
field in live tournament poker history. That's pretty ridiculous. Fifty
Seven events exceeded two million dollars prize pool, that's an
all time record for the series. Nine events exceeded a
ten million dollar prize pool. That's also in all time record.
They had a record field size in the Ladies Championship
that was won by Sina. Okay, go to that's right, baby,
one thousand and three and sixty eight entries there. Which
event surprised you the most with its size or prize pool.
You can go either up or down. I don't care
where you go with it.
Speaker 3: I think it was going to do like more of
a group event, and that was the multi flight lower Byance.
Speaker 2: I really thought we.
Speaker 3: Were going to get kind of astronomical numbers with the
additional flights, and you know, we talked about it a
lot this World Series and how you throw out the
first flight and the other three flights are pretty unpower
for what they did the previous years.
Speaker 2: But going into the.
Speaker 3: World Series, I thought Oh my god, they're basically adding
a second last flight. So I thought we were going
to see, you know, twenty percent increases in all of those,
kind of the Colossus, the Monster stack, the one came
Misterry banning all of them.
Speaker 2: But we didn't get that.
Speaker 3: So although some of them went up, that was a
guess a little bit of a surprise to me. You know,
we were kind of pretty bullish on those high roles.
Some of them absolutely crushed, but yeah, pretty much those
lower buying multipliers were the most surprising to me.
Speaker 1: You were in the trenches every single day. Of course,
other than that, they you went to go play soccer
or something on one day one morning, one morning, What
did you notice about the player demo, you know, the
people that were there. Did you see a shift? Did
you see a lot of younger players, more women, more
international I personally feel like I didn't feel like I
saw as many internationals throughout the totality of the series.
But what stuck out to you the.
Speaker 2: Land of the Rising Sun.
Speaker 3: Okay, what the Japanese the common I felt like there
was just more of those.
Speaker 1: I mean, those guys are really really good.
Speaker 3: More of the Japanese players than ever there was just
more kind of you know, whether it was South Koreans
or just players from Asia in general, that kind of
stood out to me. Maybe that was because like we
didn't see as many Europeans or something, but to me,
that was the thing that stood out the most was
just the heavy influx of Japanese players, and you know,
South Koreans, a bunch of other you know from there,
but yeah, the Japanese players just seemed to be everywhere
and crushing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean I played with a lot of the
Japanese players specifically in the main event, and they were very,
very very good. The main event itself. Now that one
did dip three point seven percent down from last year,
my thoughts really not alarming.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I said that going in, if it dips a tiny bit,
it's not that big of a deal. At the end
of the day, it was still well over nine thousand entries,
which I think is absolutely incredible for a ten thousand
dollars buy and freeze out. I still think overall the
demand is there. You know, I wouldn't sweat this if
I was the w s AP. Now that comes with
the fact that if we do start seeing a downward trend,
and it starts, you know, stacking up year after year
after year, Then okay, then there's cause for concern. But
you know, I think we were the WS minimum was
probably a head of pace the past two years, and
then this year, you know, it had some pullback a
little bit of regression there, but but nothing really to
get alarmed by at all. You know. But again, if
you know, if next year it's like ninety three hundred,
the year after that it's close to nine, then it
dips into the eight's, okay, then then there's like something
that might need to be addressed there. But for right now,
you know, I don't think in any way, shape or form,
we should be alarmed about this.
Speaker 3: What say you, I don't think we need to be
alarmed at all. I agree kind of with everything you said.
The one thing we talked about a lot, and I'm
just double checking the numbers, but we saw a heavy
increase in.
Speaker 2: Day two entry this year.
Speaker 3: Even though the numbers went down, the field size went down,
those day two entries went up quite significantly. One was
up it's like twenty five percent, the other one was
up a bit less than that. On those two flights.
So I honestly think with the way the Vegas schedule is.
When I say that, I'm talking Venetian when aria all
these competing casinos, that the day two registration is going
to keep increasing, and the fact that, like, you know what,
this main event is a slug. You know, we when
I busted, right, you had played pretty much fourteen more
hours than me right when we got in, and we
both pretty much made the money with about the same
chips back. And then obviously you went on to do
pretty well.
Speaker 1: But I think one hundred and sixty third best player
in the world, that is correct.
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm the two thousand and third best player, but
I think that matters because, like, the main event is
a slog, and you know, saving fourteen hours probably helped
me a lot, plus you throwing all these other events
that people are playing. So I think that will be
a trend that goes that continues to increase going forward.
But yeah, I don't think we should be alarmed. You know,
it's not a massive drop off shadow massive. You know,
you could easily go back up to ten thousand next year.
It could go down to ninety four hundred maybe, who knows.
I don't think that's too much of a concern for
the WSP.
Speaker 1: My early prediction as it goes up for next year,
that's my early, early, early, way way way too early
prediction that.
Speaker 3: I will say we definitely hit ten thousand next year. Okay,
twenty five k Before we move on to well, just
before we close this things, want to wrap up some
live streaming numbers. You know, live streaming for the WSP's
always talked about quite a lot this year. Did some
calculations today. We had three hundred and forty three hours
of WSP coverage, most we've ever done. Last year was
three hundred hours, so you.
Speaker 1: Needed forty three hours more.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know we had those extra main event
tables and stuff that's all kind of included. But yeah,
we did a decent amount of streaming, so it's pretty
I just wanted to kind of mention that everyone says
we don't streaming off film. I mean, we've been going
off every year. So just like WSP numbers go up
stream out, I mean.
Speaker 1: You kind of cook the numbers there, Nah exact you
just admitted to cooking the books.
Speaker 2: How do I cook the books?
Speaker 1: You said we had multiple tables, meaning if we had
three tables going for eight hours you're doing twenty four hours.
That's no, buddy, you don't do that.
Speaker 3: Okay, you can't cook the's I'm not cooking the books.
That's the books live on the podcast book. Yes, that's
a stream. We stream that table.
Speaker 1: If you guys ever think that we are like messing
with you and we're not, honest, I'm just calling him
out on his bullshit for the same company that I.
Speaker 2: Work for, books being cooked.
Speaker 1: Yeah, clearly cooking the books there as it relates to
the streaming numbers, but still pretty good streaming overall. I
still want us to get to a point where we
don't take a day off. No days off.
Speaker 2: Yeah we didn't, Yeah, but today this year we did.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 3: It was had to get those fathers to they schedule.
It was legitimately nothing we could. We got the final table.
Speaker 2: Wise we can figure it out.
Speaker 3: If we had a bit more help from WSP where
we could just you know, move some stuff, then we
would have been fine.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I agree nowadays.
Speaker 1: Though, sure, twenty five K fantasy that's what we were
going to talk about next Team b t G. I
believe that's sponsored by Phil Gelfond, involved with Phil Golf
on his new behind the game brand. They win it
all twelve hundred and seventy nine points. Team Lady Gaga
Ren's linting we should have let him draft Jeremy Osmas
and then he wouldn't want finished in second place for
eleven hundred and seventy nine. Interesting that Team Lady Gaga
has been on a bit of a run here. They
finished second to us when we won it two years ago.
Now they finished second again. Team Hands Some Horses that
was Phil Sternheimer and Patrick Leonard's team third place, eleven
hundred and fifteen points. Team Dinkers believe they won it
last year. Yeah, they seem to be very very good
Drafters fourth place, and then we mentioned that Team Liaison,
headed up by Andrew Stupchenko. His final win in that
five k event at the very end of the devasit
be allowed them to get into fifth place and cash there.
We finished in a whopping at twentieth place. Absolutely freaking crushed.
We got crushed, Not that we crushed, we got crushed. Listen,
Stevensong crusher. He's going to go for sixty dollars next year,
and he just finished like third in the Seminal Hard
Rock Poke ropin maybe second I can't remember what that
he finished. Seth Davies did extremely well for US. Yeah,
Nico milgrin N also did very very well for US.
You know, they pretty much carried the team. Uri Reichenstein
I think did very well as well. He came out
of the gate hot. We got him super cheap. He
was effectively a one dollar player for US. He offered
a lot of good support. There were certainly some moments
where he should have had some bigger scores. A few
things broke his lessons. They should have but could have
had some bigger scores should a few things broke his way.
John Shortman also, you know, offered some good support. You know,
I think he could have also had a bunch of
deep runs as well. He ultimately finished with twenty four points.
He had a boatload of cashes, a bunch of deep runs,
seventeen cashes, you know, and just a bunch of kind
of deep runs and then things kind of fell apart
in the end. So, you know, Johnny Shuman, he'll be back.
Of course, Osmas did not perform, of course, but listen,
I'm fine with it, you know. I know it's easy
to say, like, yeah, we're never drafting Osmas again, blah
blah blah whatever. No, I mean the guy. My big
thing is that he showed up every single FAA day.
He had a smile on his f and face, and
he did his thing. And yeah, things didn't break his
way because there's various variants involved that happens, you know,
So it is what it is. Still a big fan
of Jeremy Osmas. I would certainly draft him again, so
you know, you guys can take that for what you
want going into next year. Maybe we'll buy him for
one hundred and forty one again, maybe we won't, but
uh yeah, tbd. Tommy Coral and Boris Angelov horrible picks
pass just just horrible. I mean they they didn't perform
at all. They had ten points between them.
Speaker 3: Temmy Carle four cashes at the WSC, Boris Angelov three
WSP cashes. Right, but he had nine cashes outside of
the World Series, including a win and a second.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know he had a very good summer. He
had a very bad WSFP. You know. Ultimately, those are
just the breaks. Those are kind of the gambles you
take when you're you're buying one dollar players like this.
So it is what it is I would say that
my co owner and I Mickey Doff, need to reevaluate
the Tommy Coral and Boris Angelov picks.
Speaker 3: Who were the other options? And where would have that
kind I can't even remember. I mean, that's obviously you
need a lot of points to get in the money.
Speaker 1: And now that I mean there there are a few
people that were that were on our list for like
to fill these like kind of roster spots. Yeah, not
that they're necessarily one dollar players, but like a Scott Bowleman, right,
but like Scott Bowman told us, I think it.
Speaker 2: Was he said he was playing the same schedule as.
Speaker 1: Ye, but I think he said, like if I wasn't
worth a dollar last year, I'm not worth a dollar
this year, or something like that. And it's like, what
the heck am I supposed to take with that company?
Speaker 2: He's so I.
Speaker 1: Would have I don't know, you know, I don't know.
And then he obviously has an incredible summer.
Speaker 2: Four hundred points.
Speaker 1: I mean he he I don't think he had a
four hundred points worth of a summer, but.
Speaker 2: You need four hundred points.
Speaker 3: I wondering if he if he trade Carl for someone
that you were likely to pick does it get you
in the money? Let me look through the uh three.
Speaker 1: So Scott Bowman was one of those guys that we
kind of at least initially, you know, we put together
our list and then we and then based on the list,
we try and reach out to all them. Right, So
he was someone who had on our list and then
we reach out and then we got that comment and
it's like, well, I don't know exactly know how to
read that situation. So yeah, so there's that. So we
ended up not drafting him. Ryan Hoenig was also on
our list, ends up going for fifty two dollars like
we thought he was. He might not be on anyone's radar.
Maybe we get him for on fifteen to twenty. We
might be battling with one of the Florida teams or whatever.
This one is somebody who's always been on my list.
Thomas Taylor how many points again? One hundred and eighty
four crafted for seven bucks, right? I mean that that
one's kind of a one where I'm kicking myself. Matt
Vangren another one we kind of have on our short list.
He goes for nine scores, one fifty eight. You know.
So it's like we clicked A when we should have
clicked B. You know, it's like those sorts of things.
Speaker 3: Even switching those two players doesn't get you in the money.
So it's not like no building, it's all, you know,
we just have to blame Masmas. He's dead to us.
Speaker 1: He's definitely not dead to me. He's definitely not dead
to me. Let me look who I had Renjie Mao
on my list as well. Huh, you would never get
Renjie killing one for nine dollars, and he went to
Jeff Platt and Brent Hanks. They were bidding with him,
then they ended up not He scored one hundred and twelve.
He was certainly on our list. We had Calvin Anderson
on our list. This is one where like we had
Calvin Anderson on our list. I think Calvin Erson invested
in our team through poker's take, and you know, so
he told us a lot of insight. He ultimately went
for fifty one. We weren't going to go I think
above thirty on him, so we let him go and
then he scores one hundred and four. So going for
fifty one, you probably have to score a little bit
more than one hundred and four. So even though technically
we missed out on getting one hundred and four points
from him, Yeah, like he didn't meet like where he
should have been value wise or like you know, points
for value. So so that's not like a horrible pass
from us, right, Dario Alioto. I mean we wanted him back,
but he goes for a lot more. I mean just
the generational one dollar pick from us last year, he
goes for twenty five. This year, you know, scores eighty nine.
So he was, you know, somebody we ultimately had to
pass on because we weren't going to go that high,
like we were. We were big on John Reardon, the King.
We were for sure going in. Our first plan was
let's get Jeremy Osmas, Let's get John reard in, like
that's who we want. And then Jard Rearden goes for
fifty four, but thank god we didn't get him because
he only scores forty eight. Yeah, so like it's you know,
it's like one, it's like that's that was a good
situation that ultimately happened to us, not that we you know,
we ultimately passed. And I think we were I think
we were priced out to be honest at that point,
like we could only have once we spent one forty
one on on Ozmas. We could only go so high
on Reordan, so we ultimately had to pass. But if
we let's say we got Reordan for you know, let's
say forty five or whatever the heck the number was
that we could have matched out on him, then we
have Ozmas and Reordan. They both do horrible for us,
and it just doesn't work out right. So, you know,
it can kind of go go either way. I'm just
quickly scanning through if there's anyone else on here. Adam
Owen was somebody else that we were kind of high
on going in, you know, Adam Owen. He was somebody
who he used to be on my list years ago,
and then he kind of just like fell out the
face of the earth, Like he didn't really see him around.
He didn't seem like he was playing much. But then
he kind of had a sort of a resurgence the
last year year and a half, he had a big
score I believe it was in the mid Stakes championship
last summer. Gave him a pretty hefty bankroll, you know,
for the rest of the year, so he was somebody
who was now back on our radar, but he was
obviously back on other people's seems radar because he goes
for twenty two, but then he only scores twenty three.
So you know, that's that's one where us not getting
him was probably better than us getting him. So you know,
there's a lot of that, so you can go, what
if we did this, what if we did that, you know,
all that sort of stuff. It's like like, I know,
some people were like invested in our team and they're like, well,
you didn't have to get Ozma's for you know whatever
one one. You could have had Negron New for one
oh eight and neg scored two sixty nine. I said, well,
if that was the case, then we likely would have
got John Reardon, who would have only scored forty eight.
So it's like, you know, so it's like then then
we lose. Then we lose Set Davies, let's say, right,
who scored over one hundred, So we actually you know,
lose points there. So maybe Davy scored one thirty one,
so maybe yeah, maybe the combo of negran New and
Reordan nets out more than Osma's and Davies, But it's
not anything like meaningful that's gonna like get us in
the money. So like it's it's you know, there's so
many different you can't just say, like what if we
got this person versus that person, because with what we
spent on Osmas, if we had spent less on a
deep or negran new and we had that more money
than maybe we get some of these other players that
ultimately didn't pan out. Right, So it's you know, it's
it's a whole big give and of take. There's a
whole bunch of you know, moving parts here. So anyway,
we'll be back at our next year. Of course, you know,
we won this thing two years ago, so it is
certainly possible, and uh yeah, I can't wait for it.
The twenty five K Fantasy is one of my absolute
favorite things of the summer. Every single year. You got
a code word.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been a little while, so we're gonna code
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Speaker 3: Plus the company, we're giving you guys at home chance
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go to PGT dot com slash dream dush Seat. All
our contests are there, got another one. We're adding maybe
another one down the road too. But you got to gleam,
you enter a you know, you do the retweets, you
do all this kind of stuff. But this week's code word,
it's going to get you ten raffle tickets. Team BTG,
So the winner of twenty five k fantasy Team BTG
all one words, seven letters. Put that in you'll get
some extra tickets. Yeah, we want to give one of
our loyal listeners chance to sit in here in the studio,
play with Danian Agrano, play with Jeremy Osmas, play with
our fox and play Christen Foxon, potentially take on some money,
represent us. You know, put on that podcast hat. So yeah,
do that. There's a lot of other stuff you can
do to try and win a seat. But yeah, PGT
dot com sas stream dash Seat all the contests there,
all the information there. I think October thirty first is
when we're ending it, is that right youtub couple months left.
So yeah, we're gonna definitely try and ramp up the pods,
ramp up the code words to give you guys, the
loyal listeners, more chance to uh to get in there
and win that seat.
Speaker 1: And then speaking of winning seats, we have partnered with
True Classic this year for an event coming up towards
the end of the year, likely going to take place
in early December right here, right here at the studio,
right here at the Poker Ro studio, and you could
win a five thousand dollars package to play in that event.
All you have to do is go to True Classic
tas dot com slash t C Poker Girl. I know
producer Rich will put it right down here on the
bar something. You know, he'll do something with it. So
you go to that URL and then just just follow
the directions. The big thing is we want you guys
out there, or mainly the True Classic guys. Ryan Bartlett,
the co founder of True Classic, He wants people to
tell them to tell him your poker story. So if
you have an inspirational story or reason why you got
into the game, all that sort of stuff. Share it,
and then Ryan and the True Classic team are going
to select fifteen one five fifteen winners of five thousand
dollars packages. So there are seventy five thousand dollars in
packages are up for grabs in this event. Okay, it's
going to be like a thirty three hundred dollars buy
an event. You know, probably two flights, multiple days, all
that sort of stuff. So you know there's going to
be fifteen qualifiers. So fifteen of you people out there,
whether you're listening, whether you're watching on YouTube, you can win.
That's true. Classic T's dot com slash TC Poker Go,
get your entries in today. Really don't don't sleep on
this one. Okay. I don't think anyone's ever given out
normally when even when we do it, it's like, you know,
win win one seat, win one seed, win one seed,
win one seed. Tim's like win one dream sleep No,
this is fifteen seats, Okay, fifteen, So you got a
pretty good shot. Okay, pretty darn good shot. All right,
let's move on to the p g T leader board,
that is the Poker Go Tour up on top is
Michael the Grinder Miss Rocky. He went from not being
ranked to first yea, but he currently is ineligible. He
needs a third cash. We do have a qualifying element.
You have to have three PGT cases. I know you
saw him during the Right Here National Heads Up Poker Championship.
You let him know that he needs a third cash.
He seems certainly very interested in.
Speaker 2: He said, I'll just get a third win, make it easy.
Speaker 1: He probably confident. Honestly he probably will. Okay, he probably will.
So Michael Missrocky is up on top right now. Sean
deeb is he was. He was also I think he
was on ranked. I mean he doesn't play anything.
Speaker 2: He was un rank.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he moved up to twenty sixth. Are these are
like the big movers?
Speaker 2: Ye?
Speaker 1: Michael Wang went from twoundred and sixty fifth up to twentieth.
Andrew Rostupchenko We've talked about him a lot on this podcast.
He went from twnar ninety six up to sixty second.
Brian rast went from two thirty seven to forty third,
Maxim Piezarenko two fifty three to seventy sixth. So you
know there's a lot of big movers, big jumps here.
Kind of one other name that sticks out to me,
Phil Sternheimer. He went from ninety seventh up to tenth.
He's someone who interests me. Tenth feels like you might
be Lockey in terms of getting into the top forty.
So is he gonna then come out for the championship.
Speaker 3: I think I'm more worried about deep down in those
mid twenties. You know, Dave is twenty fifth right now
with one thousand and forty four points. That's the way this,
like Leada Bold's shaping out. We always talk about thousand
points kind of being the thresholds. So many people just
group there with like you know, one, two, like just
not enough cash. Is that it's gonna it's gonna be
really interesting. Is because you know, talking to Deeve, I
always trying to get him here in the studio. I
don't think we're going to get him here for anything,
which is fine. You know, he was here for the
nationals Up Championship. But he's unlikely to come out play
any events. He will come out and play the free role,
he said, if he makes it so, he's going to
be kind of monitoring. He's gonna if I was going
to have a prediction. I feel like he'll sneak in
on that like last spot forty four points. It's just
it's a tough it's a tough thing, especially with the
people under him, Like you know, we're talking Dylan Lindy,
Joey Weisman, Masato, you know, Shicky Yuek Haxton, all these
guys that are definitely going to be in our studio
for something. Right, So he is definitely going to get
pushed down. Just how long can he hold on for?
Speaker 2: Really? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean that makes sense, Sernheimer. I think he's pretty safe.
Twelve hundred points, He's in tenth place right now.
Speaker 1: Well, my question is more like, is he going to come?
Speaker 2: No, I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't see him coming, like because he's more of
mixed game guy.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: He obviously plays no Lemon, he plays Pilo, but he is,
you know, a mixed game guy. I don't think we
see him come out for any other events but for
the free roll.
Speaker 2: I you know, I think we see him come for
the free roll.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you also put it in the basically players
have to opt in or out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we have to change it for this year so
that we get the full forty. I think that's the
fairest thing. Obviously, someone like Jeremy Recker wish I did
that last year. But hey, we're trying to always improve.
This is one thing we're improving this year. We'll have
to opt in and have your seat, and you know,
with that, we probably will kind of have some people
on standby just in case, you know, there's a there's
a mis flight or something.
Speaker 2: But I think he'll come.
Speaker 3: The only tough thing for fulfilled, you know, obviously being
based in like London and obviously traveling for big proger events.
Speaker 2: He's got a family.
Speaker 3: He's going to come out for the free roll and
then he's gonna fly home then come out a month
later for the next mix game series. So that might
be a little wrink or he may be like, yeah,
pre roll, you know, maybe by then he's like thirty
fifth this it might not be worth it for him.
So that's another one. We'll obviously pay close attention to Jeremy.
Speaker 1: So last year last season on the PGT, he was
the Player of the Year, I meaning he topped the
leaderboard during the regular season with the most points. Then
he went on to win the PGT Million dollar championship,
so the double for the Great Jeremy Osmas. He's currently
ninety ninth on the leaderboard, so outside of the top forty,
he's got four hundred and eighty six points. We know
he's in here for all of the PGT series, playing
every single event. He plays all the PLO stuff, he
plays all the mixed game stuff. He'll play obviously the
bigger by ins too, He'll play the smaller biens. He'll
really do it all. He has eleven cashes on the
PGT this season, four final tables, no wins. Now partly
why he's not doing as well as last year. As
last year, if you remember, during the summer he had
an incredible summer. He had multiple final tables, deep runs,
all in big buy in PGT qualifying events. He didn't
really have that good of a summer this year. Of course,
as we know, he was on our twenty five K team,
so he's he's lacking those WSOP points right that helped
boost a lot of these guys up the leaderboard. You know,
last season, at this same point, after the WSOP, after
all the ARIA high rollers in the summer, he had
fourteen hundred and ninety nine points, So he's about a
thousand off, a little bit more than a thousand off,
and he was he had fifteen cashes last season at
this point, he was in fifth place overall. So do
we think Jeremy's gonna make it into the top forty.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be tough.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think he makes it. I think he
makes it, but it's gonna he's got to grind.
Speaker 3: He that has to like win something big or he's
gonna be grinding these results. Remember, you know, before he uh,
there was a point at Lossie where he had gone
like four hundred days that winning an event or something,
and he was just getting a lot of cashes, getting
a lot of seconds, thirds, fourth and fifths, but still
like in the right member this year obviously not breaking
that way. But I feel like he's just gotta start
stringing cashes together, thirty points a time, forty points a time,
and hope one of those can be piled into a
nice big, you know, two hundred or three hundred point win,
you know, send him right up there. I think he'll
make it. I think it's going to be a sweat.
He's going to be fighting, you know.
Speaker 1: Truth.
Speaker 3: And now to the very end, he's also going to
stop skipping. You knows he skipped the mix game series,
So I mean he's saying he would be first right now,
but like, hey, you miss a series, there's obviously missing
chances to win points.
Speaker 1: I mean he's I think right now he's averaging forty
four points per cash. If he stays on that sort
of pace, he's going to need like fifteen sixteen more cashes,
which is kind of be kind of hard to do. So,
like you said, I think he's gonna need I mean, that'll.
Speaker 2: Get him to SERI had twenty seven cashes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm saying, but right now, with with how
many events are left, I'm saying he had he had
fifteen at this point last year, so he's four cashes
ahead of where he is. Yeah, So I'm saying, like
there's just there's all you know, there's only so many events.
It's like it's I'm just saying he has to he
has to basically make up for it at some point,
so you know, we'll see. Of course, I think he'll
get in, But of course it's it's still TBD and
is going to be big because there's a whole crap
ton of PGT stuff that is coming up. Then s
HRPO Seminal High Roller Poke Open. J Cody wins Hot Rock.
What did I say, Hi?
Speaker 2: Roll?
Speaker 1: Oh? Whatever, same thing. I'm kind of freaking out because
my battery is at seventeen percent.
Speaker 2: It's crazy charges.
Speaker 1: It's pretty low. I do have a charge of it's
in my bag and I want to avoid like getting
up and being like, hey, Rich at this time, you
have to edit the video and figure this out and whatever.
So let's just we're gonna try and make it through. Okay,
So J Cody, you guys might remember that name, Jake Cody,
Jake freaking Cody. Random Player of the Day AF Yeah,
tops eight hundred and eighty nine entries to win five
hundred and ten thousand dollars in the Seminal Hard Rock
A Poker Open main event. I believe it's a fifty
three or fifty two to fifty buying for that one.
He's an EPT champ, He's a w s B bracelet winner,
He's a WPT champ. He became the third triple Crown
winner if you include EBT main events, WSP bracelets, and
WPT titles. He's still the youngest Triple Crown winner. It
took him one year, four months, and eleven days to
win it. He was once, you know, during like those
big I would say two thousand and nine to like sixteen,
he was a big name. It was you know, he was,
he was up there. He did have a big kind
of results gap from twenty eighteen to twenty twenty three.
There was only one cash I think it was for
fifteen K in twenty nineteen. But other than that, nothing
going on.
Speaker 2: I think he had a child, right, huh. I think
he had a child.
Speaker 1: He might have, And I also think he like he
relocated to Florida.
Speaker 2: I think he plays, and I think he used to
play out of cash.
Speaker 1: I think he was focused on cash. Well now it
seems like he's back in the tournament, playing a lot
of stuff down at Seminole. I think last year during
Semino or maybe earlier this year, one of those years,
I don't know, he had a win for like ninety
K or ninety five K or something like that. This
win here is his third largest career score. Jeremy Wine
got second, Stephen Song got third, on jelco On Drakovitz
got fourth, Sean Davis got fifth, Our Linda John's sixth,
jasper Ma seventh, Joseph Kurcio eighth, Big Uni ninth, Chris
Unkean ninth, and Eric Kolodney got to tenth. There goes,
There goes my wedding ring on the floor. The field
size for this one, so this year eight hundred and
eighty nine entries is up from the year before eight
sixty five. But I mean this event used to get
well over one thousand twenty twenty one, so coming out
of the pandemic eleven eighty twenty twenty two, eleven ten,
twenty twenty three, one thousand and seventy, so kind of
like those slight declines for those years and then a
big drop off, yeah, from one thosy seventy to eight
sixty five for twenty twenty three to twenty twenty four.
So just kind of interesting to point that out. I
don't really have a take or lean or a big
thought here.
Speaker 2: I have it take okay, go ahead.
Speaker 3: It's too much on there's too many options for these players,
whether the buyers, three K, five K, there's just a
lot of that stuff. Now you talk about the PGT obviously,
you know we use to specialize in those you know,
twenty twenty one to twenty two higher stuff. Now we've
obviously brought it down to fives. You know, we added Texas,
so there's a three. You know, We've got an event
of Venetian coming up that's another three K, and then
other venues too. There's just a lot of options for players.
And then you have to also throw in World Series
of Poker. What I mean by that is the evolution,
the increase in events at the World Series, but also
just the increase of events in Vegas during the World Series.
It's just so much on offer, so much money you
need to spend and have, and you finish that it's
July eighteenth. All you want to do is sleep and
not think about poker anymore. And this is the first
big series, so some people, you know, still have a
bit of a WSP hangover. You know, there's also after this.
There's people right now flying for EPT Barcelona. There's a
series in Cyprus. There's just so much going on and
that you know, people have to pick and chrus and
when this series, you know, there's so many good events
here at Seminole. This Big Fall is a great one,
but sometimes you just got to pick one to not play,
and I think that's kind of the I would say
that is one of the major reasons in the decline.
I think it's anything against Seminal. I think it's more
against everything else that's going on tournament schedule wise.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think that that makes sense. I
think this is one of those things where worth monitoring.
You know, we'll point it out and then we'll keep
an eye on and we'll see what happens next year as
it relates to this. I know, they obviously do a
lot of events at Seminole throughout the year, so you know,
maybe a little bit of fatigue there. Yeah, for their
events in general. You know, maybe I'll try and do
some digging in terms of these numbers and look at
them a little bit more closely, just to kind of
see how they're performing over the years, not just the
main event, but maybe some of the other bigger buying stuff,
and you know, also look at all the Seminal events
as opposed to just this one. So so yeah, we'll
see how that goes. One of the biggest story stories
to come out of this series was this this situation
where a player got dealt three cards at the feature
table Nile Costagen believe he's out of Ireland if I.
Speaker 3: Played on tam Usa in the well really Vegas. Okay,
so he was.
Speaker 1: He's playing on the future table on like day two
or something like whatever, and I mean, it's not the
final table is my main point. And he's dealt three cards.
He plays the entire hand. He raises pre flop. I
think he bets flop, turning river on a king. I
think it was like King ten eight turn eight river whatever. Like,
he bets the whole way. He ends up getting called
by King Jack. He goes to turn his hand over
and he turns over three cards and immediately like starts
freaking out, like he's really annoyed because of the situation.
And I think he understood. He probably knows at that
point that they might be killing his hand, meaning he
loses the pots. It's a whole thing. Floor obviously gets called.
They hear everything out. This is all on stream, by
the way, you can go. You can go on to
the shrpo YouTube channel and you can watch this whatever
day that it was on. It happened right on the
three hour fifty minute mark. So it's ruled that his
hand is dead. So the player in the one seat
is awarded the pot and you know, Costagens like freaking
out a little bit. I mean, he claims that he
thought he had well top set on the flop, turns
a full house and is just betting for value the
whole way.
Speaker 3: The chiographics, by the way, said he had Ace king because.
Speaker 1: The ace was the other card.
Speaker 2: He had.
Speaker 1: Ace King King is what he was dealt. So there's
kind of a lot to unpack here. The first thing
I'll say is that he was not in the small blind.
He was, I believe, under the gun plus one. So
it's not like the dealer went around the table and
then went around one extra spot, dealt the button the
last card, and then went one more to the small blind. No,
so what happened was is two cards got stuck together. Yeah,
And I mean maybe that's what happens a lot. There's
sweat on someone's hands, it's humid in Florida, the cards
get stuck together. You know, I think I saw I
want to say it was Christian Harder said that he
played on the feature table and the cards were like
almost magnetic in a weird way. So maybe they're elementary
are a little and I mean he quickly looked he's
getting a massage like hes. I personally don't think there
was any sort of issue with him, like angling or
anything like that. I think it's outrageous that it's just
ruled a dead hand. And I know you disagree.
Speaker 2: That's the ruling, Okay, and that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Here's here's what I'll say. We need to get away
from the fact that rulings like this just need to
be entirely black or white. I think, for probably, if
I'm going to put a percentage on it, let's say
eighty percent of rulings can probably be black or white.
This is the rule, this is the result of that rule, like,
this is what happens. I think for the other twenty percent,
we should probably use our judgment. Like when people go
into a courtroom the judge, here's the evidence, and the
judge will sometimes say, you know what, this time, I'm
going to give you a warning, sir, I know you
were speeding, don't f and speed again. Drive safe home.
What the heck are you doing? Like they use their
judgment at times.
Speaker 2: I agree with that.
Speaker 1: If we're paying rake as players, and that RAKE is
oftentimes increasing, you know, across the industry, I'm not going
to speak specific to Samon, I'm just going to say
across the industry, and there are generally pretty good floor people.
I know that Seminole has good floor people. Yeah, like
I you know, they always have really good floor people
that have been around the block that know they should
be able to make the judgment calls at times. Also,
I think that if you in this case, you can
look at the stream like I know, I know times
you can look at cameras. The camera qualities for the
overhead security cameras are not always the best, but the
streams they're in freaking four K. Like, let's go look
at the tape and see exactly what happened. It's clear
that like the dealer pitched the two cards stuck together
and he quickly looked. He never looks back at his
hand the entire time, like it's just sitting there, he's
getting a massage, like I don't know.
Speaker 3: There's also you should mention alongside that that regardless of
what two CODs he uses from his hand, still wins
the pot. Well, if he has the ace King, he
still wins, right because it was against King King Jack.
Speaker 1: So I mean, I just I lean to give this
player the benefit of the doubt. I know that there
are situations where people can possibly angle in this situation,
in this specific one, I feel like it's a it's
a judgment call type of thing. I feel like it's
a stern warning, you know, like I don't know, I
just feel like just I feel like it's partly lazy
on the people who generate the rules to just say, like,
this is the rule, this is what we go with
as opposed to installing some sort of judgment call, because
like again, when we're paying Rake, we're expecting for these
people to be experts to what they do, which in
this case, I believe that seminal people are. Then I
have confidence in them making some judgment calls in certain
unique situations, very very unique situations. I will also say
that just defaulting to the fact that it's on the
players is ridiculous. This happened again, by the way, about
twenty five minutes later, somebody was also dealt three cards,
same sort of situation, Like is it just always the
player's fault or like can the dealer figure out how
to pitch the cards? Like can we also worry about that?
You know? So it's like it's like you can't just
like default be like, yeah, it's the player's fault, okay,
Like to me, this is like faulty equipment. The two
things got stuck together. You know how stiff RFID cards are,
So like normally you peel three cards, you might be like, okay,
three cards, right. We already know that RFID cards are
very stiff, so if you're not used to peeling them regularly,
you might just think, like, even if it feels a
little bit stiffer than normal, you might just be like, well,
it's RFID, they're stiff anyway. Yeah, right, So you're not
gonna ever like really question it. So yeah, I don't know.
And then also there's the aspect that I you know,
some people out there are like, well, why didn't the
card reader pick up that he had three cards? That's
not how this works. Like one, there's different programs for
like when you use poo and when you use hold
them like, it's never going to populate four cards and
hold them for a for you know, and do it
like plo like, so it's not going to show three cards. Also,
we always tell the players in the studio everywhere. I
know they probably tell them down there, you know, you're
supposed to spread your cards, put them on the reader
for a couple of seconds, and then put them back.
You know, so if he puts them like that, but
two are still on top of each other, it's never
going to read that top card, or it's never going
to read one of the car it's not going to
read one of the cards. So, you know, I think
that's also part of it, you know. I just what
I would have done is and I wouldn't have done
like I think afterwards he like kind of freaked out
and was like, why isn't it a chop pot? I
would have just reset everything. Again, this is on stream,
and this is a unique situation. I'm not saying that
this result what I'm advocating for is something that should
be done everywhere, because obviously that can't be done, especially
when it's on non stream file tables, because then you
have the issue of, like people, there's the potential that
people angle more because it's not on a stream and
you can't see everything. Here you can see everything. You
can you know, walk it back, you can look at it,
and then you can also reconstruct the pot perfectly, be
like okay, everyone take the chips back. Miss deal. Let's
move on, buddy. If this happens again, like not only
is it a dead hand, you're getting a three round
penalty like like you know that sort of thing, like
like that's what I personally think should have been done,
a break from the rules. Give your case.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna agree with you on the fact that you know,
maybe some of these rules need to have Oh so
now you agree with a bit of leniency where you
can make it up to the TV's discretion. Now, I
don't know what rule seminal follows, but if they're following
the rule book, then the spot on. Now let's wind
back to start. Whose fault is it? It's a bit
of both. Bit of bout the dealers that hey it
wasn't didn't make sure that that pitch was a single
cup pitch.
Speaker 2: It's also on the place to get that caught.
Speaker 1: Why can it also be no one's It's just the
fact that the courts.
Speaker 3: Together has to be someone's fault. You're dealing the cards.
That's the point courts stuck together. Point two point two
is also the players should make sure like I've been
dealt three cards before playing hold of make how know
I got three cards or I haven't.
Speaker 2: Been dealt a card on the button. That kind of
stuff happens a lot. Now.
Speaker 3: The way the rule is written, I think it's it's
completely fine because the rules are written to protect players, Okay,
and I'm not saying that he is trying to angle
and like you know, we've brought that up, but it's otherwise.
It's written so he can't. You can't free roll someone.
What I mean by that is you're dealt three cards.
You oh, I've got three cards. Well, I know, let's
say it's the rules written your way, we chop it.
I can just free roll this play. I can just bet, bet, bet,
But he calls on the end of oh I got
three cards, I chop it up. I'm basically I can
free roll opponent. So I'm trying. The rules are in
to protect, not the guy with three cards. It's to
protect the guy doesn't have three cards. And I think
it's fine. I understand. I like what you're saying that.
You know, like there's gonna be times where we've all
played poker. We've been dealt two jacks and it comes
all clubs and you know you have a black jack.
You check your cards, right, there's gonna be times where
you could potentially be dealt three cards and they're three aces,
and you don't really think twice.
Speaker 2: You just squeeze.
Speaker 3: You might have squeezed all three, but you might have
just thought you had a black ace, so you didn't
think too much of it. Another time is have it
if a dealer deals that second card and it's stuck
under a napkin or stuck under the rail, that's.
Speaker 2: Not your fault right at all.
Speaker 3: So I definitely agree that maybe we do need some,
you know, TD discretion with certain rules. This is one
where you could obviously look at his hand and be like,
you either had two kings for a full house, or
you had ace King for two pair with the best
kicker you win anyway. I don't think there's anything malicious
here him arguing I'm arguing that I would have a
value at Ace King.
Speaker 2: I don't think that.
Speaker 1: Also, the fact that the way that this one played
out where he were in the position that he was in,
we also don't know if his first card doubled up
or his second card double up, but it messed up
the entire world. The whole hand is off, the whole
hands off, the full hand is wrong. Yeah, like it's
one wrong here, but.
Speaker 3: That's just the normal thing where it's like significant action then,
but it's.
Speaker 1: Not like it's not like if she would have dealt,
if the dealer would have dealt all the cards and
then dealt an extra card to the small blind, everyone
else's hands, everyone's house. So it's a little bit different.
This is like literally everyone's hand is wrong. It's just wrong.
Speaker 2: Except the blinds. Right, huh except the blinds.
Speaker 1: Well, it depends when that card. I thought you said
it was his second cun I don't know if it
was a second card or not. We don't know.
Speaker 3: We justly pitches to him twice. So yeah, potentially either way,
you are great. Does throw off the whole hand. But
then that's the other role with the significant action rule,
which also.
Speaker 1: It throws off the whole hand, It throws off the flow,
it throws off literally everything.
Speaker 2: As the rule is. I think it's I would also.
Speaker 1: Rather be where they reconstruct the hand, give everyone their
chips back, and then issue the guy a penalty. I
think that's a better ruling than him just losing the pot.
Oh ok saying so I'd be like, listen, you you
played the hand with three cards. Now, I can't judge intent.
If I'm the TD, I can't judge intent, but I'm
putting you on a one round penalty. It's it's the
same thing like when when people who are beginner players
they check back the river with the nuts, and we
were giving people one round penalties for that. Yeah, Like,
are you like you're you can't judge intent? Okay, Now
some people that might have been playing with people might
be like, yeah, this person's clearly new, they didn't mean
it whatever, you know, but it doesn't matter. The rule
is a one round penalty. We're not going to judge intent.
So here I would be like, we're not going to
judge intent, but because this hand is so fed up, okay,
we're gonna give you a one round penalty, but you're
gonna get your chips back. I think I'm not saying
that that's the way that I would go. I would
go with what I said first, but I'm saying I
think that is better than him losing all his chips.
That's where it gets like, this hand should not have happened.
And I've said this before on this podcast. In situations
when the hand should literally not have happened, why don't
we just take it all back. We have the ability
in most cases to take it all back. Yeah, So,
like I don't know, like, especially in this case where
it's on a stream, just take it back. Like it
it seems so ridiculous that this person just loses a
bunch of their chips because of some faulty equipment, like
two cards got stuck together, like it just happens, you know. Yeah,
Like it's that seems so ridiculous to me in a
world when I'm supposed to believe that that tournament staff
are experts and if that's the case, which I tend
to believe, yes that is the case, then I would
trust them in very very very unique situations to make
a judgment call. But now if that judgment call turns
into abuse and we find out this player is then
doing it more later on, then it's like okay, buddy, listen,
Like you're gonna get a three round penalty, You're possibly
just gonna get snapdecued. Like it's just it's getting ridiculous
at this point, like that, like I would, I would,
I would fast track it in that regard, But this
first one just seems so like crazy, and it's again
it's such a unique situation and unique situations, I think
you have to kind of think things through, take in
all the evidence, use some common sense, and not just
be like, well, this is what the rule book says,
Like I would be curious. I haven't read the entire
rule book. I'm not ever going to do that, but like,
what is the rule book on penalties? Because penalties seem
largely judgment calls. Some floors might give a one round penalty,
some might give a warning, some might give three rounds,
some might give a hand Like what is actually are
the actual rules or are all the rules judgment calls?
Because one I'll say that, Okay, if there are hard
rules for penalties, but then you're doing judgment calls, then
the ability to break from the rules is there? Or
if the rules say you make a judgment call on penalties,
then why can't there also be judgment calls. I don't know.
I personally just feel like this was a bit much
to just give the other guy. It just seems.
Speaker 2: Ridiculous to me looking. Yeah, I don't get the TV, but.
Speaker 1: Like the TDA rules. Also, I read an article on
poker dot org where they talked with Matt Savage who
obviously talks you know, works with them on this sort
of stuff. There was a quote in there from Matt
shout out Matt Savage, where see he said that he
sees this a.
Speaker 2: Lot is a very short one.
Speaker 1: Have you seen this ever? I have literally never said something. No, okay,
there's three cards, but there's three cards in the position
that this guy was in, meaning he was clearly dealt
to at the same time. How many hands of tournament
poker have you covered and played? Have you ever seen this?
Speaker 3: I've seen it a surprisingly a lot amount of times,
but not like it the way he's saying it, And
I think.
Speaker 1: Like, there's I have I have never seen this like
I've seen people.
Speaker 3: I've seen it where it's like it's been when I
played poker last week and it happened.
Speaker 1: I've seen it with a small blinde gets done in like.
Speaker 3: Middle position and like then the deal is like, oh
wait a second, Uh the top CODs is the bottom
cards his? But that's more like the players the cards
are all over the place. No, but like I've seen
two cards come out. I reckon I would see two
cards have come out. I would say average wants every
like three PoCA session.
Speaker 1: But have you seen it where what I'm saying is
we're like literally the cards stuck together. So like you
don't know that's what That's what I'm saying. I've seen
two cards come out, yes, but like you have, I
don't think I've ever seen it where like it gets
like you can watch the pitch, it does not look
like two cards at all at any point, Like it's
clearly you know, one looks they're just stuck together. It's like,
I don't know how you can see that in that position.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know if I've ever seen it like that.
But yeah, so I'm not as a strong word from
missus Savage.
Speaker 1: No, I know what you're saying. Normally, like you know,
two cards kind of come out, they're kind of close
to each other because they break apart at some point
and it's like, well which card's mind? Which card's not
on the doers, Like, well, that one's yours and that
one's yours. You know that that happens a fair amount, yes,
but never that the card is fully made it into
the guy's hand, you know, without breaking it all. Yeah,
because even if it I've I think i've seen it
where like it's gotten pretty close and the dealer will
be like, oh, there's two cards, Like the dealer snap
knows right, So it's just just yeah. Again, I think
this is an entirely unique situation that calls for a
unique ruling right now. Again, this should not be the
rule at all times, and not everything should be a
judgment call. The majority of stuff, the large majority of
stuff should be this is the rule, this is what happens.
This is like the penalty or this is the ruling
or whatever the result in this situation. I don't know.
I think it's a bit much like I go back
to the hand with with Gail Bauman and Andre karaknai
w is a main event where like isn't the rule
that he had he said call or set all in
or whatever, so like he has to call, yeah, you know,
and it's like okay, but and then but then they
made a judgment call and they said, you know, you're
not going to use your lose your tournament life because
you didn't see it, Like that was a judgment call.
But isn't the rule Like all the people saying like, listen,
you're the player, you gotta protect yourself. Well, if he
didn't see it, so you see the rays and set
all in and she's got two kings. I mean, I'm sorry,
she's got to call you buddy, and your tips are
in the middle. That's just how it is.
Speaker 2: Like, no, no, that makes sense.
Speaker 1: So anyway, that's my uh my rant on that I
have another uh I have a take. Okay, there's been
a lot of conversation I think, feel like in the
past week or two, and it's mostly Daniel m'growney and
Matt Savage are like going at it about this clock situation.
Like one mgran who's in some article I think on
poker dot org saying like, don't call it an action clock.
You know, I don't know, so I think he's like
half joking. But also like obviously Savage works for WPT
and they have the action clock, like it's trademark that clock.
I like the term action clock, Like I wish that
it wasn't trademark so that we could use that everywhere
because I hate calling you the shot clock. Like mgrannio says, like,
we're not calling it an action clock, it's a shot clock. Well,
there's no shots in poker. We took it from the NBA,
is what we did. Because we're easy as poker people
and we're not creative at all, but that's how we are.
Speaker 3: I don't know the PGT sholock. I would not call
it a shot clock, but okay, that's probably right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: My new thought is that clocks everywhere in poker, the
the the action clocks, the play clocks, the shock clocks,
whatever the heck you want to call them, Like we're
giving these guys too much time? Okay. My thought is
that isn't the point of this to actually create some
urgency in poker? And it never becomes a thing, Whereas
if you want to go look at the NBA, the
shot clock in the NBA becomes a part of a
game multiple times a game. The play clock in the
NFL becomes part of the game multiple times a game.
I feel like these clocks in poker, with these time extensions,
like never become a thing. It's so rare. Shouldn't it
be more of a thing? Like why should people get
the found tables and they have thirty of these fin
things and like they can just take seven minutes.
Speaker 2: That's on the upright them more than anything.
Speaker 1: But that's what I'm saying, Like, shouldn't we shouldn't there
be less times that if these are in play, shouldn't
they they be in play also to create more urgency,
And then it becomes more of a thing. It becomes
more involved in the competition.
Speaker 3: It becomes more like everything is urgent, much different to
what it was to say, five to ten years ago.
Now there's not four minutes every straight like you have time,
you have a set shot clock, and you have time extensions.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, I feel like it's not I
feel like it's not as urgent as the intention is
originally set out for it to be.
Speaker 3: I think the intention was to prevent the long tanks
and long delays. I think it's done that now people
abuse that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but some people would say the opposite. I'm not
saying I would, but some people say that it's worse
with clocks because people take the full thirty seconds or
the full twenty.
Speaker 3: Second, and then once that happens, we started making change
twenty second and it's it's never going to be perfect.
There's going to be people that find ways so abuse
every rule in poker. Wow, Until we can invent a
live like we have online, like a chess clock. Yeah,
until someone can patent that and do that live. I
think we're always going to have issues, and it's just
about trying to perfect the clock as much as we can.
And we've made changes every season here with the amount
of time extensions, with the twenty seconds pre the thirty
posts all that, and everyone is always going to keep
making changes to find what's best, so adjust as needed.
Speaker 2: It's just hot, it's just really hard.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I just I could be entirely wrong here in
terms of like what I think I see, But I
feel like I'm in commentary boosts enough now that when
it comes to final tables, I just don't feel like
the clock becomes a pressing point as often as it
may should or as it should be, like it should
be a factor more that like you're running out of
time extensions, you have to act quicker, Like I don't know,
it's just interesting to me, Like I feel like it's
just not really an issue if you just play like
halfway normal, it's just it's just fine. You're never really
a risk. It's like, maybe do we want to increase
that risk a little bit? And it would it lead
to a better entertainment.
Speaker 2: From prevy aspect, Like it feels like you're coming.
Speaker 1: I think aspect well, I think, but I think originally
the clocks were put into play for entertainment.
Speaker 2: No, I disagree, completely disagree.
Speaker 3: Why I think that'll put it in to prevent we
were round when the first action clock, remember the first
action clock was WPT chucktaw like twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1: Yes, but it was. It was, if I remember it correctly.
It's because everyone was complaining that poker is taking so long.
Speaker 2: If but that was.
Speaker 1: I don't think that was like the TV is is.
But I'm not saying I'm not saying entertainment in forms
of TV. I'm saying entertainment in terms of like the
actual playing product.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, but that's yeah, that's that's that's what we agree.
Speaker 1: Ones Like when I sit down at a table, I
don't want to play five hands an hour, like I
want to play more hands.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: I think every time I think falls to some degree
in an a teamment bucket.
Speaker 3: A Venetian to play the three hundred something I'll be tomorrow,
But there's also a three hundred dollars at the Venetian
on the other side of the room. One has a
shot clock from the start. One has the normal Venetian
rules or the shot clocks like in the money right,
which one do you play?
Speaker 1: I mean fell sizes are the same, Yeah, I mean
obviously you probably play the shot clock.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I would agree.
Speaker 3: The reason we don't have shot clocks in every event
is just the amount of you know, the logistics behind
it having clocks at every table. We need a lot
of time intensions. It's a lot of it's a bit
more labor, et cetera. But I think everyone would agree
that having a shot clock from the side is better
in all events. But there is more tour than that.
There is the labor aspect. Does every table have a
clock for us? You know, we need enough iPads if
you're a Venetian where they have tablets and built into
the things, that's doable.
Speaker 1: But I think it's I think players ultimately use a
fair amount of their time extensions throughout a tournament. I
just don't think we're getting as close to zero as
we might want to be. Yeah, like people like fully
running out of them, like when you run out of
timeouts and a sporting events just out of timeouts. Yeah,
but that's what I'm saying. But like it's it's very
like you have to like really manage it because you
only get like three and a half for the NFL,
for example. But I'm saying, like, you get huh is.
Speaker 2: It you get three and a half timeouts? Is that
what you just said?
Speaker 1: No, I said three and a half three in a half?
Speaker 2: Oh, I think I said three and a half.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, I don't know what you get TV
time out and then non TV time aut Yes, you
have to manage it. That's part of the strategy, just
like you have to manage your chips. I think that's
part of the evolution of Parker. I don't think there's
anything wrong with that at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But what I'm saying is that if if people
aren't using them as often, and if people aren't getting
aren't risking getting close to zero, doesn't that mean that
we're giving them too much time to begin with?
Speaker 3: Sure, and time extentis should be adjusted according to the
event and the buying and the length of the event,
just like we have different amount of time extensions as
the buying's increase, right, and depending on our event, like
to say, the three hundred k super higher all the
ball you get more the next day and then you
get more at the final table.
Speaker 1: I feel like your first action could probably be ten seconds,
they could probably be five.
Speaker 3: Then we're now adding a logistics aspect where okay, dealers
that have been trained, you know with twenty or thirty
or thirty thirty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean back to your point of you you
need the different type of clock.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you need to educate the players and the staffing.
So there's a lot to it. And I yeah, I
think we're going to agree with a lot of these things.
Speaker 1: I feel like we should be developing that sort of clock.
Speaker 2: I think about it a lot.
Speaker 1: And I because we have a very controlled space at
the end of the day, Like we we're in the
Propago studio right now, and you know there's a maximum
sixteen tables in here at an absolute maximum. It might
not even be that many, might be fifteen, I don't know,
but whatever. But because it's so controlled, like I feel like,
you know, it's it's it's either going to be us
or it's going to be Triton.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's right.
Speaker 1: I mean maybe it's ws AP as it relates to
like WSP Paradise, but like I don't think you can
just develop something for like was be ma an event
from day one, A like that.
Speaker 2: Would just because's a way to do it.
Speaker 3: Everyone needs basically like some version of an iPad, but
then you need to put on the table, needs to
plug in controlled by the d LA. Like there's a
lot to it, and I think it's going to take.
I think we're a couple of years away from figuring
it all out. You know it will get someone will
agree with.
Speaker 1: You, I agree with you, and this I was thinking
about this maybe a week ago in that I was
actually watching an old episode the first season of the
National Heads of Poker Championship, which you put on Poker
Go Yeah, which is now available on Poker It's also
on YouTube. But Henry Ornstein was in that first episode
or first seas step right, and he obviously invented the
whole card cam and all that sort of stuff. And like,
I was trying to think about how that came about,
and I don't really know exactly, but what I'm thinking
of is probably at some point there was a conversation
like how do we show these cards? Yeah, and I'm
sure they might. I don't know how long it took
from that like thought or conversation to when it was
actually developed, but I'm sure there was plenty of ideas
and brainstorming thrown around, just kind of like.
Speaker 2: Everyone simple, it's like, oh, just put a camera that. Okay,
let's maybe.
Speaker 1: Listen it was maybe it was maybe it was just
that simple, right.
Speaker 2: You kind of simplify a chess clock. Okay.
Speaker 1: What I'm what I'm getting at is that I think
that when my result of this thought process that I
was having is when we get to that point where
there is the poker's version of a chess clock, I
think there's a great, fairly reasonable potential that we're going
to be like, oh, why didn't we think of that?
Like it was so easy and somebody did it, and
we were all going to be like why didn't we
think of just doing it like that? I feel like
that's I feel like that's going to be a thing.
Speaker 3: I've thought about it a lot more than probably I
would be in the top.
Speaker 1: Five percent of I'm sure you are, and it's just.
Speaker 3: Like I just really can't like get my head around
how to you know, Like I said, I think it's
I think it's buying a bunch of phones that are
like locked to the player, and that's like locked you know,
somehow bluetooth to an iPad. That's the only way I
can I just I'm not a technology like I wouldn't
know how to code that. So we need to find
someone to code that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think you could easily find someone to
code that. I bet you. I bet you could figure
it out using AI programs if you spend.
Speaker 3: Spend enough time on it, like the PGT really kicks in,
maybe I can figure it out with it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's it's so someone.
Speaker 1: Like I just think at some point someone's going to
be like what, like they're gonna do it. It's gonna
get done. I think for sure it's gonna get done,
just a matter of time when it gets done, and
I think a lot of us are going to be like, oh,
it wasn't that hard, Like we not that it's super easy, right,
like you know, cutting a hole in a thing, put
a camera right like, but it's it's probably not gonna
be as hard as we think, and we're gonna be like, oh,
we could have thought of that or oh prog.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, that's pretty easy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's that's what I think. There's more like
that's my thought of how it's going to result.
Speaker 3: But there's just so there's so much more to it
underneath that you know we wouldn't be privy to.
Speaker 1: I mean sure, yeah, but I also feel like, oh, like, oh,
we could have we could have done that.
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's a lot of smart people trying to
figure this out.
Speaker 3: I'm sure try and I'm sure gg have've all tried
to figure this out. But yeah, I agree with you
in our space with you know, the max fourteen fifteen tables,
we should we should have more.
Speaker 1: I mean, could it also be like the chest clock
is where you literally have to hit a button's.
Speaker 3: A timing thing. Then that's like I could just take
one extra second to press it. I can press it earlier,
but it's your own button. Yeah, but like it's my clock,
so it's always like okay, he's action finishes, So now
I'm supposed to press mine.
Speaker 1: You don't press I press.
Speaker 3: So that But okay, So then we need seven shot
clocks all connect, seven chess clocks all connected.
Speaker 2: What happens when the table breaks?
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, like I'm not putting much
thought into this, but I'm saying like it's gonna be
something that that's like you.
Speaker 3: Need the chess clock that like clips in to like
the ethernet port on the tables, So now we have
to redesign the tables for it to work.
Speaker 1: Ye what of all the tables? I personally also think
that poker tables are due for like a redesign in
a lot of ways. Like I feel like there's a
like the simplest thing is tournament tables. I have no
idea why they have that giant ass rack in the
middle of them. No, I'm not saying you don't need
a rack because there are color up tips and whatever,
but I feel like that rack could probably be a
third of the size. And then how other part of
it is for like the tablet. Why is the tablet
just got to sit over here and all of the
nine seed and like we know whatever, Like some players
are like can you put the can you put the
tablet in the middle of the table, Like no, that's
what the flop goes, okay, Like you.
Speaker 3: Know WPA definitely Like there's like you know, obviously when
you saw a tournament, there's nine chip stacks in the well,
but then it'll make six of them normally, ask straight away.
Speaker 2: So yes, I would.
Speaker 1: Say, but also if you stack them, it only takes
up like three two.
Speaker 3: Usual the well could definitely be half shaped in half
and put the iPad in there, but like something like that.
Speaker 1: But that's like that's I mean, I know it's not here,
but like that's around the country and around the world.
That's how your tables.
Speaker 2: Are only tournaments.
Speaker 3: What I'm saying, Venetian, you need to have a multi
purpose rack for both cash hips.
Speaker 1: You could have a multipurpose rack for sure. I mean
I would also say that in a lot of cash
games you might not need all the chips that are
in there. I mean they put a lot of chipe,
like a lot of and I played like a one
to three game. They have like you know, twenty k
in the rackets, like you know. It's anyway, we've been
all over the place for the last fifteen twenty minutes
or so. It's good to be back.
Speaker 2: It is. It's going to be back next week.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I really do want to, you know, once
we get started, stick to.
Speaker 2: Every touch on this thing such on this bay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to talk about the national heads of
Poker check. We will not tell you who won. It
has been filmed It is going to post edit and
it will be airing on Peacock followed by Poker Girl
and the Poker Stars channels. Details on all the broadcasts
and streaming releases are still TBD as they work out
through all the footage and all that sort of stuff,
you know, But we can't talk about the draw. We
can talk about the players that were invited.
Speaker 2: About a round sixty four, like who played who? Right, Well, yeah,
that's the draw.
Speaker 1: The draw. I mean, we're not gonna we can't reveal
any of the play of course. Yeah, I feel like
I've already forgotten it by out now, but it is
what it is. But along these lines, I would, I
don't know, I would highly encourage you guys to go
watch these past episodes. I mean they are freaking gold.
I put a new one on every single day. It's
kind of as background noise or whatever, and then I like,
I'll catch myself paying attention to it. I mean, just
what people are wearing, how they're playing, the logos on
the felt, the design of the sets, you know, the music,
the music music, the segments, the the number of chips,
like actual chips they have like six colors, twenty five stacks.
I mean, the whole thing is it is. It is
peak poker nostalgia is what it is. So if you
love that sort of stuff, you can find the old
National Heads Up Poker Championship episodes in full seasons on
Poker Girl if you're a Poker Grow subscriber. They're also
being released on YouTube, but on YouTube they're a bit
delayed and it's only one episode per day and all
that sort of stuff. But if you want to go
more of the binge rout and if you are a
poker gro subscriber, I would highly encourage you guys to
go check that out on poker Go. All right, we've
been doing this for way, way, way too long today,
so let's get out of here for Tim Duckworth. My
name is Donnie Peters, and we'll talk to you guys
next time you have Jai