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<v Speaker 1>Even if they've gone dark, I'd still call them back

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<v Speaker 1>and ask for feedback, and I'd say something like, please

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<v Speaker 1>share with me two things you like about what we've

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<v Speaker 1>talked about thus far, and two things that may be

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<v Speaker 1>causing you pause.

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<v Speaker 2>You're listening to the audible Ready podcast, the show that

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<v Speaker 2>helps you and your teams sell more faster. We'll feature

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<v Speaker 2>sales leaders sharing their best insights on how to create

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<v Speaker 2>a sales engine that helps you fuel repeatable revenue growth.

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<v Speaker 2>Presented by the team at Force Management, a leader in

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<v Speaker 2>B to B sales effectiveness. Let's get started.

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<v Speaker 3>Hello and welcome to the Audible Ready Sales Podcast. I'm

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<v Speaker 3>Rachel Klatt Millerer. Joining me today is our own John Kaplan.

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<v Speaker 1>Hi John, Hey Rachel. I think I'm looking forward to

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<v Speaker 1>this And Dear Abby we call him this Dear Rachel

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<v Speaker 1>and John.

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<v Speaker 3>I think dear Rachel and John so sleepless in Seattle. Yes, right,

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<v Speaker 3>So today this podcast episode is coming directly from our

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<v Speaker 3>sender community. We have sales professionals asking questions and starting

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<v Speaker 3>some great discussions on sales execution, challenges and best practices.

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<v Speaker 3>That's going on in the engaged section of a sender

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<v Speaker 3>and as we know if one person has the question,

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<v Speaker 3>it's likely others do to. You know, I'm frequently on

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<v Speaker 3>there and I think, wow, that's a great question. So here,

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<v Speaker 3>I've compiled a couple of them to cover in this podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>I'll throw them out, John, you can answer. The first

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<v Speaker 3>one comes from Lee, who I believe is a quota

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<v Speaker 3>carrying rep. He has questions about the next step, and

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<v Speaker 3>I'll just read you what he wrote. I've been working

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<v Speaker 3>with a prospect and have conducted both a discovery call

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<v Speaker 3>and a demo. We had some excellent discovery during our

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<v Speaker 3>initial call, even more during the demo. The customer then

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<v Speaker 3>requested pricing for budgetary purposes, which I provided parentheses, though

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<v Speaker 3>I'm unsure if that was the right move. I received

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<v Speaker 3>this dreaded response, thank you so much for the details.

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<v Speaker 3>We will regroup internally to discuss our approach and I

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<v Speaker 3>will let you know how we would like to move forward.

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<v Speaker 3>So Lee says, do you have any suggestions on how

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<v Speaker 3>I should reply? How can I avoid this situation in

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<v Speaker 3>the future? John, take it away. What advice do you

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<v Speaker 3>have for Lee?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, A couple things. First of all, I'd like to

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<v Speaker 1>commend Lee for having the courage I love the Ascender

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<v Speaker 1>platform because people go there, like Lee to ask great

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<v Speaker 1>questions and they're going to get, hopefully a great answer.

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<v Speaker 1>So I love the Ascender platform. I love the community aspect. Others.

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<v Speaker 1>When you're jumping in there and somebody has a question,

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<v Speaker 1>don't hesitate to answer it, and we look at it

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<v Speaker 1>every day and we'll put in our two cents, like

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to do for this one. So Lee, again,

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<v Speaker 1>great question. When I read it, the first questions that

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<v Speaker 1>come to mind for me are like, what does your

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<v Speaker 1>customer engagement model look like? Does it first outline how

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<v Speaker 1>customer buys by stage? And I know you're not here

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<v Speaker 1>with me on the pod here, so you can't answer these,

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<v Speaker 1>but I just want you to contemplate it. Does it

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<v Speaker 1>have your sales process align to how the customer buys

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<v Speaker 1>by stage critical activities for the seller and the customer.

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<v Speaker 1>We call those customer verifiable outcomes, and we look to

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<v Speaker 1>see that they have those by stage. And then who's

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<v Speaker 1>doing what when inside the company all the resources, including

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<v Speaker 1>again the customer, So we're looking for is there exit

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<v Speaker 1>criteria to move from one stage to the next. So

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<v Speaker 1>I can't tell if you have that because it looks

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<v Speaker 1>like some of these stages may have morphed together when

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<v Speaker 1>you said, like in next fall you did discovery demo

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<v Speaker 1>and pricing, And I know that that happens for a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of us, and I'm not saying that you don't

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<v Speaker 1>do that all on one call, but it wasn't clear

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<v Speaker 1>to me if there were definitive stages and exit criteria

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<v Speaker 1>that warranted the next stage. And only Lee will know that.

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<v Speaker 1>So this kind is open for everybody. So the next

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<v Speaker 1>thing you said was that you had excellent discovery during

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<v Speaker 1>the initial call and demo, and I would just kind

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<v Speaker 1>of ask us, how do you measure that excellence? Because

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<v Speaker 1>for me, here's what excellence looks like. You know, in Discovery,

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<v Speaker 1>I think about three buckets on every call that I'm

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<v Speaker 1>doing that I fill up. I'm looking to find positive

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<v Speaker 1>business outcomes and the impact the business impact. I'm looking

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<v Speaker 1>to make sure that I have technical required capabilities and

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<v Speaker 1>that those technical required capabilities have the ability to be

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<v Speaker 1>influenced in favor for the customer and in favor for

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<v Speaker 1>us with our differentiation. And then I'm also looking to

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<v Speaker 1>understand how they measure success. So coming out of that,

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<v Speaker 1>I should have a good set of decision criteria or

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<v Speaker 1>require capabilities which are good for the customer and highly

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<v Speaker 1>differentiated for us, and that is what we should be demoing.

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<v Speaker 1>So before we do anything or commit to a demo

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<v Speaker 1>or commit to pricing, we have to make sure the

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<v Speaker 1>decision criteria, the required capabilities that they are set in

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<v Speaker 1>place and that everybody's going to have to use those

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<v Speaker 1>and your job, Lee is to make them heavily influenced

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<v Speaker 1>by your differentiation. Okay. And then on the pricing piece, Look,

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<v Speaker 1>I understand that you get asked for pricing all the time,

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<v Speaker 1>but if you're going to give it early, use it

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<v Speaker 1>as a discovery tool. So definitely, for me, I give

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<v Speaker 1>the highest possible price that I can give, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>based upon priceless and that kind of stuff. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>create some arbitrary high price, but whatever the highest price

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<v Speaker 1>I can give when that's all somebody has asked me for.

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<v Speaker 1>And then I look to get feedback and I ask

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<v Speaker 1>things Lee, like give me your feedback on the pricing

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<v Speaker 1>that I just shared with you, or at the end

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<v Speaker 1>of the call, ask hey, what are two things you

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<v Speaker 1>liked about what we discussed and two things that are

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<v Speaker 1>causing you to pause? And lead. Most of the time,

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<v Speaker 1>people are going to bring up pricing if it's an issue,

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<v Speaker 1>So always ask what are they going to do with

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<v Speaker 1>the pricing once you give it to them. So if

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<v Speaker 1>someone says, hey, you're kind of expensive, don't get discouraged.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, for me, that's where discovery begins. And I

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<v Speaker 1>just ask, so, what do you mean by expensive? What

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<v Speaker 1>were you expecting? How did you come up with that number?

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<v Speaker 1>Often it's a budget number. Walk me through how you

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<v Speaker 1>get something approved that may not be in the budget.

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<v Speaker 1>That helps me understand lead the decision process. And then

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<v Speaker 1>when they say other competitors or if there's two other competitors,

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<v Speaker 1>what have you, there's no problem. Will you be judging

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<v Speaker 1>us all on the same specific decision criteria that we

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<v Speaker 1>just set up, And that's no problem for me. If

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<v Speaker 1>that decision criteria is favorable for us, Lee set, it's

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<v Speaker 1>favorable for us, it's good for the customer, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>favorable because you did a good job setting traps for

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<v Speaker 1>the competition and influencing it with your differentiation. I think

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<v Speaker 1>you're all set, and then I wanted to give you

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<v Speaker 1>something that you can go back with immediately because I

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<v Speaker 1>know you're like hey, what can I do now? So

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<v Speaker 1>I'd call the prospect back and ask for feedback. Even

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<v Speaker 1>if they've gone dark, I'd still call them back and

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<v Speaker 1>ask for feedback, and I'd say something like, please share

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<v Speaker 1>with me two things you like about what we've talked

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<v Speaker 1>about thus far, and two things that may be causing

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<v Speaker 1>you pause. If your pricing comes back, go back and

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<v Speaker 1>use exactly what I said earlier. So if they said, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>you were a little expensive, can you describe what you

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<v Speaker 1>mean by a little expensive? What were you expecting? Just

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<v Speaker 1>use some of those tips in summer. I know that

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<v Speaker 1>was a lot. But what I would do Lee is

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<v Speaker 1>I would go back and make sure that you have

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<v Speaker 1>a very specific sales process that delineates lines to how

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<v Speaker 1>your customer buys and then one of those critical activities,

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<v Speaker 1>including exit criteria. So if you jump right to a

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<v Speaker 1>demo but you don't have decision criteria that's established and

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<v Speaker 1>you don't have your discovery done, it doesn't mean that

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<v Speaker 1>you can't do it. But while you're doing that demo,

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<v Speaker 1>go back this and delineate the decision criteria that comes

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<v Speaker 1>out of that, the required capabilities that come out of that.

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<v Speaker 1>Because at the end of your conversation. You got to

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<v Speaker 1>make sure you got business impact, you have highly differentiated

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<v Speaker 1>decision criteria, and you understand how the customer is going

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<v Speaker 1>to measure success. You can jump around a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>because customers jump around, but you've got to have all

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<v Speaker 1>three of those things before you give pricing, or while

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<v Speaker 1>you give pricing, or you never know where you stand.

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<v Speaker 3>That's it. I love the theme of framing that pricing

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<v Speaker 3>question as an opportunity and rather than shutting down like,

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<v Speaker 3>oh god, now they've asked me the price, what you do?

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<v Speaker 3>John has kind of framed that and when they do that,

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<v Speaker 3>here's your opportunity to do X, Y and Z.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And it's not like becoy about it. Rachel, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>I know some people like, hey, you want pricing, Let

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<v Speaker 1>me h, what do you mean by pricing or whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>We're not being slick, We're just being authentic. But he

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<v Speaker 1>asked for pricing. Say, if you're not ready to give

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<v Speaker 1>the pricing, then give pricing for example for me, for

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<v Speaker 1>us that like Force Management, I always talk about whatever

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<v Speaker 1>the highest prices that Force Management has and then I

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<v Speaker 1>just go from there. It's not like I'm trying to

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<v Speaker 1>shame myself or shame somebody else, but it's a good

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<v Speaker 1>starting point for discovery. Awesome.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So next one comes from Brian, who leads a

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<v Speaker 3>team he is finding customers are really being close to

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<v Speaker 3>the vest with positive business outcomes, metrics numbers that would

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<v Speaker 3>help a rep quantify the pain in order to show

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<v Speaker 3>the value even if the reps are doing a good

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<v Speaker 3>job of trying to prove deeper their hitting brick walls.

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<v Speaker 3>So what advice you have for Brian for him to

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<v Speaker 3>help his reps to get the customers open up. How

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<v Speaker 3>would you coach that?

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<v Speaker 1>Again, my hat's off to Brian, because that's your job,

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<v Speaker 1>and I like, I'm acknowledging it and I'm respecting you

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<v Speaker 1>Brian that you realize that your job is to help

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<v Speaker 1>sellers get unstuck and your job is to help them

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<v Speaker 1>do things that they're struggling to do. So hats off

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<v Speaker 1>to you on that. And one thing I would suggest

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<v Speaker 1>is that teach your people how to be authentic. Teach

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<v Speaker 1>them the words that they say, the words that come

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<v Speaker 1>from the heart, and too the heart of all who

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<v Speaker 1>hear them. And now that's kind of my definition of authenticity.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a reason why people are hesitant to share information

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<v Speaker 1>with us. This is what I find. It can be

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<v Speaker 1>that they don't trust us, they don't understand why we

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<v Speaker 1>need the information or what we're going to do with

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<v Speaker 1>the information, and maybe they do not have the information

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<v Speaker 1>that we're asking for. But all of those situations are

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<v Speaker 1>a problem for us, and they're very very important for

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<v Speaker 1>you as a leader, Brian, to kind of help them

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<v Speaker 1>discover what the truth is, the authentic truth is behind that.

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<v Speaker 1>So again, I like authenticity at all times, and I

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<v Speaker 1>like to say things like, mister missus customer, a sense

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<v Speaker 1>that you're not comfortable sharing all the information that I'm

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<v Speaker 1>asking you about, can you get me some feedback? And again,

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<v Speaker 1>if you ask that in a very authentic way, people

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<v Speaker 1>are going to share with you things like well, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't understand what you're going to do with that information.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know why that information is relevant for this conversation.

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<v Speaker 1>I've gotten some great feedback from people when I noticed

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<v Speaker 1>they're shutting down a little bit. So for what I

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<v Speaker 1>like to do is I like to say things like,

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<v Speaker 1>let me share with you why this information is important.

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<v Speaker 1>For example, let's talk about business impact. It's my experience

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<v Speaker 1>that most successful customers tie technical capability to business outcomes,

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<v Speaker 1>and so other things like metrics. People struggle with metrics

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes or a lot of times as the feedback I get.

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<v Speaker 1>So when I'm asking about measurements or metrics, I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>trying to set up a situation where I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>give the customers some impression like we, as the vendor,

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<v Speaker 1>are going to measure you in some way. We just

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<v Speaker 1>need to show that when our solutions are measured with

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<v Speaker 1>your success criteria, I'm kind of role playing here. We

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<v Speaker 1>have to know that when our solutions are measured with

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<v Speaker 1>your success criteria, they become proof points in the future

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<v Speaker 1>of what we both committed to, and this becomes like

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<v Speaker 1>credibility for both of us. I used to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>putting deposits in the bank account with my champions. Say,

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<v Speaker 1>the reason why I'm talking about metrics now in measurement

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<v Speaker 1>is because they are going to be proof points in

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<v Speaker 1>the future for us, and it's going to build credibility.

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<v Speaker 1>So the next time you want to do something, you

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<v Speaker 1>want to expand this solution, you want to do something

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<v Speaker 1>else with the solution, you want to go ask for

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<v Speaker 1>more budget money, you and I both have proof that

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<v Speaker 1>what we set out to do did so. It's extremely

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<v Speaker 1>extremely important. So again, Brian hats off. Teach them to

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<v Speaker 1>be authentic, call it out when customers are being close

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<v Speaker 1>to the vest, just be authentic and ask them a lot.

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<v Speaker 3>All right, that's great, Okay. The next one is on

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<v Speaker 3>multi threading. We talk about that topic a lot, and

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<v Speaker 3>it's even more important right when budgets are tight and

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<v Speaker 3>people are cautious with spending the subscriber rates. I often

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<v Speaker 3>find myself in a situation where there's a central point

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<v Speaker 3>of contact managing the particular project. When I reach out

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<v Speaker 3>to others involved in the project, I worry that I

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<v Speaker 3>might upset the person their initial contacting. Another common scenario

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<v Speaker 3>is when I ask that point of contact who else

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<v Speaker 3>I should be talking to, they insist that everything should

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<v Speaker 3>be funneled through them. In other words, my opportunities are

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<v Speaker 3>frequently single threaded as a result. Can anyone offer advice

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<v Speaker 3>on how to navigate this hurdle with my customers? How

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<v Speaker 3>can I make bold requests without offending the customer? This

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<v Speaker 3>is the common scenario, right John, Yeah, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Think it's a real common one, and let's just call it.

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<v Speaker 1>I like to call it the gatekeeper's dilemma. My father

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<v Speaker 1>used to tell me, the more someone has to tell

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<v Speaker 1>you how powerful they are, they probably don't have that power.

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<v Speaker 1>So again, authenticity is big and all of these discussions,

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<v Speaker 1>and I want you to be authentic and be prepared

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<v Speaker 1>with great discovery. So we all know that the economy

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<v Speaker 1>is bringing more scrutiny to purchases right now, and most

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<v Speaker 1>of us are selling solutions that impact multiple organizations. So, Rachel,

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<v Speaker 1>there's very few single threaded sales campaigns that are successful today,

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<v Speaker 1>very few. But here's some tips. Ask gatekeepers questions that

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<v Speaker 1>they may not have the answer to. For example, a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of times, if you're talking with somebody and they

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<v Speaker 1>are responsible for the technical impact of a solution and

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<v Speaker 1>the technical criteria, which is awesome and we need that

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<v Speaker 1>every time when we're selling technical solutions, you might want

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<v Speaker 1>to consider asking them for business impact and sometimes they'll

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<v Speaker 1>have it and sometimes they won't. But I like to

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<v Speaker 1>ask people questions that they may not have the answer to.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you do find a situation where a gatekeeper

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<v Speaker 1>can't give you the answer, Also, don't be so quick

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<v Speaker 1>to run out of the office with your hall pass

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<v Speaker 1>to get away from them. I know I used to

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<v Speaker 1>do that. As a young seller, so phoow, I want

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<v Speaker 1>to get around this person. So now I asked them

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<v Speaker 1>a question I didn't have an answer to and I

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<v Speaker 1>run out of the office. But you might have an

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<v Speaker 1>opportunity to build champions future champions, or at the very

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<v Speaker 1>least make the next call warmer with their participation. So

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of times I'll say, hey, even though we

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<v Speaker 1>didn't have the answer together on this, we both need

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<v Speaker 1>this answer. Do you want to come with me? Or

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<v Speaker 1>would you please come with me? And a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>times when they're setting up the next call with somebody

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<v Speaker 1>with an introduction, you're not having to do that cold.

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<v Speaker 1>It makes the call a lot warmer. When people are

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<v Speaker 1>adamant about you sticking with them, don't be afraid or

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<v Speaker 1>not going around them. Don't be afraid to ask them

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<v Speaker 1>to walk you through the last purchase they made, and

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<v Speaker 1>do kind of like a reverse timeline with them, and

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<v Speaker 1>not in a gotcha way, like aha, here's a person

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<v Speaker 1>that we don't know, here's another situation, here's another decision.

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<v Speaker 1>But I'm telling you, ninety nine point ninety nine percent

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<v Speaker 1>of the time you'll hear other people's names and other

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<v Speaker 1>decision points, and it just becomes obvious. So just ask

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<v Speaker 1>the simple question, can you walk me through the last

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<v Speaker 1>purchase you made. Many times you'll find that they didn't

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<v Speaker 1>even make the purchase. They made a recommendation to somebody

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<v Speaker 1>else that needed to make the purchase. So just let

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<v Speaker 1>that kind of come organically. Again, I'm talking about authenticity.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm talking about transparency. If you think somebody's boxing you in,

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<v Speaker 1>just ask for some feedback on why that might be.

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<v Speaker 1>At the end of the day, you're going to have

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<v Speaker 1>to make a call if this gate peeper is a

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<v Speaker 1>competitors champion, don't get stuck. What do you have to lose?

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<v Speaker 1>If you believe that what you do matters, you must

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<v Speaker 1>know how your product is differentiated in a way that

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<v Speaker 1>adds value to your prospect, you must continue the fight.

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<v Speaker 1>And then the last point Rachel, I'd like to make

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<v Speaker 1>here is in the question, the person said, I worry

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<v Speaker 1>that I might upset this person. And I know that's

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<v Speaker 1>real and it's authentic, and I kind of appreciate it

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<v Speaker 1>and I've been there, but I want you to get

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<v Speaker 1>over that right now. We're not rude, we're not obnoxious,

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<v Speaker 1>we're not disrespectful, but we do believe what we do matters,

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<v Speaker 1>so we know that we're not any of those bad things,

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<v Speaker 1>and so there's no reason for us to worry because

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<v Speaker 1>what we do matters. And don't worry about things until

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<v Speaker 1>they come up, meaning don't go in with a world

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<v Speaker 1>that you're going to be boxed in or you're going

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<v Speaker 1>to just be aware and if it comes up, you

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<v Speaker 1>just deal with it. At the end of the day,

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<v Speaker 1>you go into conversations knowing that what I do matters,

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<v Speaker 1>meaning my solutions are highly differentiated, they create business impact,

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<v Speaker 1>and they matter. So regardless of who's in front of

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<v Speaker 1>me telling me what I can and can't do, I

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<v Speaker 1>always have that in my heart, and it gives us

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of courage, especially to deal with gatekeepers.

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<v Speaker 3>I love that there's some great perspective on three common challenges.

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<v Speaker 3>I know that a lot of you are facing out

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<v Speaker 3>there as you try to fill that pipeline and close

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<v Speaker 3>those deals. Don't forget. As John mentioned at the top,

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<v Speaker 3>we have a pretty vibrant community going on in Ourcender platform.

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<v Speaker 3>It's at my dot Asender dot co. It's linked in

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<v Speaker 3>the show notes. You can jump on there and engage

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<v Speaker 3>as well. Hey John, thank you for your perspective to

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<v Speaker 3>my pleasure.

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<v Speaker 1>Go get them all right.

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<v Speaker 3>And thank you to all of you for listening to

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<v Speaker 3>the Audible Ready Sales podcast.

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<v Speaker 4>At Force Management, we're focused on transforming sales organizations into

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<v Speaker 4>elite teams. Our proven methodologies deliver programs that build company

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<v Speaker 4>alignment and fuel repeatable revenue growth. Give your teams the

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<v Speaker 4>ability to execute the growth strategy at the point of sale.

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<v Speaker 4>Our strength is our experience. The proof is in our results.

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<v Speaker 4>Let's get started. Visit us at forcemanagement dot com.

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<v Speaker 2>You've been listening to the Audible Ready podcast. To not

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<v Speaker 2>miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite

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<v Speaker 2>podcast player Until next time.