Speaker 1: Even if they've gone dark, I'd still call them back
Speaker 1: and ask for feedback, and I'd say something like, please
Speaker 1: share with me two things you like about what we've
Speaker 1: talked about thus far, and two things that may be
Speaker 1: causing you pause.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the audible Ready podcast, the show that
Speaker 2: helps you and your teams sell more faster. We'll feature
Speaker 2: sales leaders sharing their best insights on how to create
Speaker 2: a sales engine that helps you fuel repeatable revenue growth.
Speaker 2: Presented by the team at Force Management, a leader in
Speaker 2: B to B sales effectiveness. Let's get started.
Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to the Audible Ready Sales Podcast. I'm
Speaker 3: Rachel Klatt Millerer. Joining me today is our own John Kaplan.
Speaker 1: Hi John, Hey Rachel. I think I'm looking forward to
Speaker 1: this And Dear Abby we call him this Dear Rachel
Speaker 1: and John.
Speaker 3: I think dear Rachel and John so sleepless in Seattle. Yes, right,
Speaker 3: So today this podcast episode is coming directly from our
Speaker 3: sender community. We have sales professionals asking questions and starting
Speaker 3: some great discussions on sales execution, challenges and best practices.
Speaker 3: That's going on in the engaged section of a sender
Speaker 3: and as we know if one person has the question,
Speaker 3: it's likely others do to. You know, I'm frequently on
Speaker 3: there and I think, wow, that's a great question. So here,
Speaker 3: I've compiled a couple of them to cover in this podcast.
Speaker 3: I'll throw them out, John, you can answer. The first
Speaker 3: one comes from Lee, who I believe is a quota
Speaker 3: carrying rep. He has questions about the next step, and
Speaker 3: I'll just read you what he wrote. I've been working
Speaker 3: with a prospect and have conducted both a discovery call
Speaker 3: and a demo. We had some excellent discovery during our
Speaker 3: initial call, even more during the demo. The customer then
Speaker 3: requested pricing for budgetary purposes, which I provided parentheses, though
Speaker 3: I'm unsure if that was the right move. I received
Speaker 3: this dreaded response, thank you so much for the details.
Speaker 3: We will regroup internally to discuss our approach and I
Speaker 3: will let you know how we would like to move forward.
Speaker 3: So Lee says, do you have any suggestions on how
Speaker 3: I should reply? How can I avoid this situation in
Speaker 3: the future? John, take it away. What advice do you
Speaker 3: have for Lee?
Speaker 1: Well, A couple things. First of all, I'd like to
Speaker 1: commend Lee for having the courage I love the Ascender
Speaker 1: platform because people go there, like Lee to ask great
Speaker 1: questions and they're going to get, hopefully a great answer.
Speaker 1: So I love the Ascender platform. I love the community aspect. Others.
Speaker 1: When you're jumping in there and somebody has a question,
Speaker 1: don't hesitate to answer it, and we look at it
Speaker 1: every day and we'll put in our two cents, like
Speaker 1: we're going to do for this one. So Lee, again,
Speaker 1: great question. When I read it, the first questions that
Speaker 1: come to mind for me are like, what does your
Speaker 1: customer engagement model look like? Does it first outline how
Speaker 1: customer buys by stage? And I know you're not here
Speaker 1: with me on the pod here, so you can't answer these,
Speaker 1: but I just want you to contemplate it. Does it
Speaker 1: have your sales process align to how the customer buys
Speaker 1: by stage critical activities for the seller and the customer.
Speaker 1: We call those customer verifiable outcomes, and we look to
Speaker 1: see that they have those by stage. And then who's
Speaker 1: doing what when inside the company all the resources, including
Speaker 1: again the customer, So we're looking for is there exit
Speaker 1: criteria to move from one stage to the next. So
Speaker 1: I can't tell if you have that because it looks
Speaker 1: like some of these stages may have morphed together when
Speaker 1: you said, like in next fall you did discovery demo
Speaker 1: and pricing, And I know that that happens for a
Speaker 1: lot of us, and I'm not saying that you don't
Speaker 1: do that all on one call, but it wasn't clear
Speaker 1: to me if there were definitive stages and exit criteria
Speaker 1: that warranted the next stage. And only Lee will know that.
Speaker 1: So this kind is open for everybody. So the next
Speaker 1: thing you said was that you had excellent discovery during
Speaker 1: the initial call and demo, and I would just kind
Speaker 1: of ask us, how do you measure that excellence? Because
Speaker 1: for me, here's what excellence looks like. You know, in Discovery,
Speaker 1: I think about three buckets on every call that I'm
Speaker 1: doing that I fill up. I'm looking to find positive
Speaker 1: business outcomes and the impact the business impact. I'm looking
Speaker 1: to make sure that I have technical required capabilities and
Speaker 1: that those technical required capabilities have the ability to be
Speaker 1: influenced in favor for the customer and in favor for
Speaker 1: us with our differentiation. And then I'm also looking to
Speaker 1: understand how they measure success. So coming out of that,
Speaker 1: I should have a good set of decision criteria or
Speaker 1: require capabilities which are good for the customer and highly
Speaker 1: differentiated for us, and that is what we should be demoing.
Speaker 1: So before we do anything or commit to a demo
Speaker 1: or commit to pricing, we have to make sure the
Speaker 1: decision criteria, the required capabilities that they are set in
Speaker 1: place and that everybody's going to have to use those
Speaker 1: and your job, Lee is to make them heavily influenced
Speaker 1: by your differentiation. Okay. And then on the pricing piece, Look,
Speaker 1: I understand that you get asked for pricing all the time,
Speaker 1: but if you're going to give it early, use it
Speaker 1: as a discovery tool. So definitely, for me, I give
Speaker 1: the highest possible price that I can give, you know,
Speaker 1: based upon priceless and that kind of stuff. I don't
Speaker 1: create some arbitrary high price, but whatever the highest price
Speaker 1: I can give when that's all somebody has asked me for.
Speaker 1: And then I look to get feedback and I ask
Speaker 1: things Lee, like give me your feedback on the pricing
Speaker 1: that I just shared with you, or at the end
Speaker 1: of the call, ask hey, what are two things you
Speaker 1: liked about what we discussed and two things that are
Speaker 1: causing you to pause? And lead. Most of the time,
Speaker 1: people are going to bring up pricing if it's an issue,
Speaker 1: So always ask what are they going to do with
Speaker 1: the pricing once you give it to them. So if
Speaker 1: someone says, hey, you're kind of expensive, don't get discouraged.
Speaker 1: You know, for me, that's where discovery begins. And I
Speaker 1: just ask, so, what do you mean by expensive? What
Speaker 1: were you expecting? How did you come up with that number?
Speaker 1: Often it's a budget number. Walk me through how you
Speaker 1: get something approved that may not be in the budget.
Speaker 1: That helps me understand lead the decision process. And then
Speaker 1: when they say other competitors or if there's two other competitors,
Speaker 1: what have you, there's no problem. Will you be judging
Speaker 1: us all on the same specific decision criteria that we
Speaker 1: just set up, And that's no problem for me. If
Speaker 1: that decision criteria is favorable for us, Lee set, it's
Speaker 1: favorable for us, it's good for the customer, and it's
Speaker 1: favorable because you did a good job setting traps for
Speaker 1: the competition and influencing it with your differentiation. I think
Speaker 1: you're all set, and then I wanted to give you
Speaker 1: something that you can go back with immediately because I
Speaker 1: know you're like hey, what can I do now? So
Speaker 1: I'd call the prospect back and ask for feedback. Even
Speaker 1: if they've gone dark, I'd still call them back and
Speaker 1: ask for feedback, and I'd say something like, please share
Speaker 1: with me two things you like about what we've talked
Speaker 1: about thus far, and two things that may be causing
Speaker 1: you pause. If your pricing comes back, go back and
Speaker 1: use exactly what I said earlier. So if they said, hey,
Speaker 1: you were a little expensive, can you describe what you
Speaker 1: mean by a little expensive? What were you expecting? Just
Speaker 1: use some of those tips in summer. I know that
Speaker 1: was a lot. But what I would do Lee is
Speaker 1: I would go back and make sure that you have
Speaker 1: a very specific sales process that delineates lines to how
Speaker 1: your customer buys and then one of those critical activities,
Speaker 1: including exit criteria. So if you jump right to a
Speaker 1: demo but you don't have decision criteria that's established and
Speaker 1: you don't have your discovery done, it doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: you can't do it. But while you're doing that demo,
Speaker 1: go back this and delineate the decision criteria that comes
Speaker 1: out of that, the required capabilities that come out of that.
Speaker 1: Because at the end of your conversation. You got to
Speaker 1: make sure you got business impact, you have highly differentiated
Speaker 1: decision criteria, and you understand how the customer is going
Speaker 1: to measure success. You can jump around a little bit
Speaker 1: because customers jump around, but you've got to have all
Speaker 1: three of those things before you give pricing, or while
Speaker 1: you give pricing, or you never know where you stand.
Speaker 3: That's it. I love the theme of framing that pricing
Speaker 3: question as an opportunity and rather than shutting down like,
Speaker 3: oh god, now they've asked me the price, what you do?
Speaker 3: John has kind of framed that and when they do that,
Speaker 3: here's your opportunity to do X, Y and Z.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's not like becoy about it. Rachel, Like,
Speaker 1: I know some people like, hey, you want pricing, Let
Speaker 1: me h, what do you mean by pricing or whatever.
Speaker 1: We're not being slick, We're just being authentic. But he
Speaker 1: asked for pricing. Say, if you're not ready to give
Speaker 1: the pricing, then give pricing for example for me, for
Speaker 1: us that like Force Management, I always talk about whatever
Speaker 1: the highest prices that Force Management has and then I
Speaker 1: just go from there. It's not like I'm trying to
Speaker 1: shame myself or shame somebody else, but it's a good
Speaker 1: starting point for discovery. Awesome.
Speaker 3: Okay, So next one comes from Brian, who leads a
Speaker 3: team he is finding customers are really being close to
Speaker 3: the vest with positive business outcomes, metrics numbers that would
Speaker 3: help a rep quantify the pain in order to show
Speaker 3: the value even if the reps are doing a good
Speaker 3: job of trying to prove deeper their hitting brick walls.
Speaker 3: So what advice you have for Brian for him to
Speaker 3: help his reps to get the customers open up. How
Speaker 3: would you coach that?
Speaker 1: Again, my hat's off to Brian, because that's your job,
Speaker 1: and I like, I'm acknowledging it and I'm respecting you
Speaker 1: Brian that you realize that your job is to help
Speaker 1: sellers get unstuck and your job is to help them
Speaker 1: do things that they're struggling to do. So hats off
Speaker 1: to you on that. And one thing I would suggest
Speaker 1: is that teach your people how to be authentic. Teach
Speaker 1: them the words that they say, the words that come
Speaker 1: from the heart, and too the heart of all who
Speaker 1: hear them. And now that's kind of my definition of authenticity.
Speaker 1: There's a reason why people are hesitant to share information
Speaker 1: with us. This is what I find. It can be
Speaker 1: that they don't trust us, they don't understand why we
Speaker 1: need the information or what we're going to do with
Speaker 1: the information, and maybe they do not have the information
Speaker 1: that we're asking for. But all of those situations are
Speaker 1: a problem for us, and they're very very important for
Speaker 1: you as a leader, Brian, to kind of help them
Speaker 1: discover what the truth is, the authentic truth is behind that.
Speaker 1: So again, I like authenticity at all times, and I
Speaker 1: like to say things like, mister missus customer, a sense
Speaker 1: that you're not comfortable sharing all the information that I'm
Speaker 1: asking you about, can you get me some feedback? And again,
Speaker 1: if you ask that in a very authentic way, people
Speaker 1: are going to share with you things like well, I
Speaker 1: don't understand what you're going to do with that information.
Speaker 1: I don't know why that information is relevant for this conversation.
Speaker 1: I've gotten some great feedback from people when I noticed
Speaker 1: they're shutting down a little bit. So for what I
Speaker 1: like to do is I like to say things like,
Speaker 1: let me share with you why this information is important.
Speaker 1: For example, let's talk about business impact. It's my experience
Speaker 1: that most successful customers tie technical capability to business outcomes,
Speaker 1: and so other things like metrics. People struggle with metrics
Speaker 1: sometimes or a lot of times as the feedback I get.
Speaker 1: So when I'm asking about measurements or metrics, I'm not
Speaker 1: trying to set up a situation where I'm going to
Speaker 1: give the customers some impression like we, as the vendor,
Speaker 1: are going to measure you in some way. We just
Speaker 1: need to show that when our solutions are measured with
Speaker 1: your success criteria, I'm kind of role playing here. We
Speaker 1: have to know that when our solutions are measured with
Speaker 1: your success criteria, they become proof points in the future
Speaker 1: of what we both committed to, and this becomes like
Speaker 1: credibility for both of us. I used to talk about
Speaker 1: putting deposits in the bank account with my champions. Say,
Speaker 1: the reason why I'm talking about metrics now in measurement
Speaker 1: is because they are going to be proof points in
Speaker 1: the future for us, and it's going to build credibility.
Speaker 1: So the next time you want to do something, you
Speaker 1: want to expand this solution, you want to do something
Speaker 1: else with the solution, you want to go ask for
Speaker 1: more budget money, you and I both have proof that
Speaker 1: what we set out to do did so. It's extremely
Speaker 1: extremely important. So again, Brian hats off. Teach them to
Speaker 1: be authentic, call it out when customers are being close
Speaker 1: to the vest, just be authentic and ask them a lot.
Speaker 3: All right, that's great, Okay. The next one is on
Speaker 3: multi threading. We talk about that topic a lot, and
Speaker 3: it's even more important right when budgets are tight and
Speaker 3: people are cautious with spending the subscriber rates. I often
Speaker 3: find myself in a situation where there's a central point
Speaker 3: of contact managing the particular project. When I reach out
Speaker 3: to others involved in the project, I worry that I
Speaker 3: might upset the person their initial contacting. Another common scenario
Speaker 3: is when I ask that point of contact who else
Speaker 3: I should be talking to, they insist that everything should
Speaker 3: be funneled through them. In other words, my opportunities are
Speaker 3: frequently single threaded as a result. Can anyone offer advice
Speaker 3: on how to navigate this hurdle with my customers? How
Speaker 3: can I make bold requests without offending the customer? This
Speaker 3: is the common scenario, right John, Yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Think it's a real common one, and let's just call it.
Speaker 1: I like to call it the gatekeeper's dilemma. My father
Speaker 1: used to tell me, the more someone has to tell
Speaker 1: you how powerful they are, they probably don't have that power.
Speaker 1: So again, authenticity is big and all of these discussions,
Speaker 1: and I want you to be authentic and be prepared
Speaker 1: with great discovery. So we all know that the economy
Speaker 1: is bringing more scrutiny to purchases right now, and most
Speaker 1: of us are selling solutions that impact multiple organizations. So, Rachel,
Speaker 1: there's very few single threaded sales campaigns that are successful today,
Speaker 1: very few. But here's some tips. Ask gatekeepers questions that
Speaker 1: they may not have the answer to. For example, a
Speaker 1: lot of times, if you're talking with somebody and they
Speaker 1: are responsible for the technical impact of a solution and
Speaker 1: the technical criteria, which is awesome and we need that
Speaker 1: every time when we're selling technical solutions, you might want
Speaker 1: to consider asking them for business impact and sometimes they'll
Speaker 1: have it and sometimes they won't. But I like to
Speaker 1: ask people questions that they may not have the answer to.
Speaker 1: So if you do find a situation where a gatekeeper
Speaker 1: can't give you the answer, Also, don't be so quick
Speaker 1: to run out of the office with your hall pass
Speaker 1: to get away from them. I know I used to
Speaker 1: do that. As a young seller, so phoow, I want
Speaker 1: to get around this person. So now I asked them
Speaker 1: a question I didn't have an answer to and I
Speaker 1: run out of the office. But you might have an
Speaker 1: opportunity to build champions future champions, or at the very
Speaker 1: least make the next call warmer with their participation. So
Speaker 1: a lot of times I'll say, hey, even though we
Speaker 1: didn't have the answer together on this, we both need
Speaker 1: this answer. Do you want to come with me? Or
Speaker 1: would you please come with me? And a lot of
Speaker 1: times when they're setting up the next call with somebody
Speaker 1: with an introduction, you're not having to do that cold.
Speaker 1: It makes the call a lot warmer. When people are
Speaker 1: adamant about you sticking with them, don't be afraid or
Speaker 1: not going around them. Don't be afraid to ask them
Speaker 1: to walk you through the last purchase they made, and
Speaker 1: do kind of like a reverse timeline with them, and
Speaker 1: not in a gotcha way, like aha, here's a person
Speaker 1: that we don't know, here's another situation, here's another decision.
Speaker 1: But I'm telling you, ninety nine point ninety nine percent
Speaker 1: of the time you'll hear other people's names and other
Speaker 1: decision points, and it just becomes obvious. So just ask
Speaker 1: the simple question, can you walk me through the last
Speaker 1: purchase you made. Many times you'll find that they didn't
Speaker 1: even make the purchase. They made a recommendation to somebody
Speaker 1: else that needed to make the purchase. So just let
Speaker 1: that kind of come organically. Again, I'm talking about authenticity.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about transparency. If you think somebody's boxing you in,
Speaker 1: just ask for some feedback on why that might be.
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, you're going to have
Speaker 1: to make a call if this gate peeper is a
Speaker 1: competitors champion, don't get stuck. What do you have to lose?
Speaker 1: If you believe that what you do matters, you must
Speaker 1: know how your product is differentiated in a way that
Speaker 1: adds value to your prospect, you must continue the fight.
Speaker 1: And then the last point Rachel, I'd like to make
Speaker 1: here is in the question, the person said, I worry
Speaker 1: that I might upset this person. And I know that's
Speaker 1: real and it's authentic, and I kind of appreciate it
Speaker 1: and I've been there, but I want you to get
Speaker 1: over that right now. We're not rude, we're not obnoxious,
Speaker 1: we're not disrespectful, but we do believe what we do matters,
Speaker 1: so we know that we're not any of those bad things,
Speaker 1: and so there's no reason for us to worry because
Speaker 1: what we do matters. And don't worry about things until
Speaker 1: they come up, meaning don't go in with a world
Speaker 1: that you're going to be boxed in or you're going
Speaker 1: to just be aware and if it comes up, you
Speaker 1: just deal with it. At the end of the day,
Speaker 1: you go into conversations knowing that what I do matters,
Speaker 1: meaning my solutions are highly differentiated, they create business impact,
Speaker 1: and they matter. So regardless of who's in front of
Speaker 1: me telling me what I can and can't do, I
Speaker 1: always have that in my heart, and it gives us
Speaker 1: a lot of courage, especially to deal with gatekeepers.
Speaker 3: I love that there's some great perspective on three common challenges.
Speaker 3: I know that a lot of you are facing out
Speaker 3: there as you try to fill that pipeline and close
Speaker 3: those deals. Don't forget. As John mentioned at the top,
Speaker 3: we have a pretty vibrant community going on in Ourcender platform.
Speaker 3: It's at my dot Asender dot co. It's linked in
Speaker 3: the show notes. You can jump on there and engage
Speaker 3: as well. Hey John, thank you for your perspective to
Speaker 3: my pleasure.
Speaker 1: Go get them all right.
Speaker 3: And thank you to all of you for listening to
Speaker 3: the Audible Ready Sales podcast.
Speaker 4: At Force Management, we're focused on transforming sales organizations into
Speaker 4: elite teams. Our proven methodologies deliver programs that build company
Speaker 4: alignment and fuel repeatable revenue growth. Give your teams the
Speaker 4: ability to execute the growth strategy at the point of sale.
Speaker 4: Our strength is our experience. The proof is in our results.
Speaker 4: Let's get started. Visit us at forcemanagement dot com.
Speaker 2: You've been listening to the Audible Ready podcast. To not
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Speaker 2: podcast player Until next time.