Speaker 1: Welcome to Next Level Soul, the place where we deep
dive into the mysteries of existence, uncover hidden layers of consciousness,
and explore the journey of the soul. I'm your host,
Alex Ferrari, and every week we sit down with the
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Now let's dive into today's episode. I like to welcome
back to the show returning champion, doctor John de Martini.
How you doing, Doctor John?
Speaker 2: Doing great? Thank you for having me back on the show.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being back on the show.
Are We've you been on the show twice before. You're
one of our early guests back in the olden days
of Next Level Soul. I've always been a very big
fan of your work and what you've done, and obviously
you were introduced to me by the secret back in
all those years ago. But your work is pretty remarkable,
what you've been doing trying to help souls around the world.
So first and foremost, I want to just give you
my heartfelt thanks for all the hard work you've been
doing all your entire career.
Speaker 2: Thank you. That's what I love to do. I don't
even think of his work sometimes, just them. I love doing.
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely so I'm going to dive just right into
the deep end. If someone feels lost right, like in
life right now? How do they know whether they're actually
lost or just redirect or just being redirected into something deeper.
Speaker 2: Well, I think if you were to take a something
that's round, you're always hit a turning point going around it.
So at any moment, it's always a turning point towards
where you're going. So that would be a general statement,
but it's whatever you're perceiving. It depends on if you
perceive an event that you think is in the way
instead of on the way, you can ask a new
set of questions help you see how it is on
the way and turning into on the way. So it's
all depends on the perceptions and expectations and the questions
you asked and how you perceive life.
Speaker 1: That's a good question because a lot of times, like
you don't see what the universe has in store for you.
All you see is like you just lost your job,
or I just broke up with my girlfriend, or I
just lost my house. But if you look at it
from a if you look at down the line and
look back, which if you've been around the around the
earth a few times, you kind of start seeing that
perspective where you're like, oh, thank god I lost my
job there. Oh thank god I broke up with that
that girl. She would have been a nightmare kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Well, every event has two sides, and you can make
a heaven out of a hell or a hell out
of heaven, as Milton said. And we have in our
brain the cortex, the walnut shell and the nut inside,
which is a nuclei. People that function a from there
or they're not e ones.
Speaker 1: You know many of those, do you?
Speaker 2: I think we all have money moments of nuttinesses. That
amigla wants to seek prey and avoid predator. Yes, it
wants to seek pleasure and avoid pain. It wants to
eat something which is pleasure for instead of being eaten.
It wants to support without challenge, ease without difficulty, the
pause without negative, the peace without award. Itch ONTs a
one sided game, but the two sides are united like
a magnet, and striving for that which is unobtainable. Trying
to get one side without the other and trying to
avoid that which is unavoidable is a source of suffering.
So if we choose to see an event as pauses
without negatives or negatives out pauses, then the imigala is
going to make us have an impulse to seek or
an instinct to avoid, and we're going to be an
automaton reacting to these misperceptions. But if we ask a
new set of questions, which are in tuition is constantly
trying to help us do what is the downside of
that new relationship that I'm infatuated with? And what is
that upside to that person that challenged me or criticized me,
or hurt me or whatever. In mind, if we balance
out our equation, we don't have the intrusive thoughts that
occupy space and time to mind from the infatuations and resentments.
So if you think about it, when you have insomnia, knight,
you're having all this brain noise going on and all
this stuff, you can't sleep, it's because you're thinking of
something that's pleasureful that you're fantasizing about, or you're thinking
about something that's painful that you're nightmaring about, and it's
occupying space and time to mind. Because if it's one,
it's prey, if it's the other, it's predator. You don't
want to lose food and you don't want to be eaten,
so it keeps you awake and alert because the fear
of starvation, the fear of being eaten, is part of
our nature inside, even though we don't call it prey
and predator. It's just support and challenge in our mind
or positive negatives. So we have these intrusive thoughts in
our brain that occupy our mind and make us have
this noise, and it stops the message of our inner
voice and our inner vision which calls us to do
something really magnificent. It distracts us. So when somebody thinks
something is terrible in their life and they just don't
see the blessings, they can ruminate on that. They can
have it keep them up at night. They can choose
to be traumatized by it, or they can choose to ask, Okay,
what is the benefit to this? How is it serving me?
How's it helping me intellectually? What am I learning? How's
it helping my business? What is it catalyzing? How's it
helping me financially? What is it raising the value of
How's it helping my relationship? How's it helping me socially?
How's it helped me physically? How's it helped me spiritually?
If you ask those questions. The quality of life based
on the questions you ask. If you ask those questions,
you become conscious of things you weren't conscious of, and
the label of one sidedness can be dissolved and you
can see both sides and be freed. And the moment
you see both sides of the event, you're neither infatuate
or resentful, neither wholesover instinct, and you're out of your amigma,
and you're now in your executive center, which according to
Scientific American would call the seat of the self.
Speaker 1: So when you're saying that the predator prey thing when
you're sleeping, where would stress come into.
Speaker 2: That is stress? There's only two forms of stress known.
You could take any moment you've ever been stressed off,
any age of your life, any moment in your life,
and it's only two forms. The perception of loss or
something you're seeking, or the perception of gain of something
you're avoiding. That's all there is. It's the perception of
loss of food and the perception of being eaten. In
the brain. The brain only sees those two things. Basically,
we may call the prey what supports us, We may
call the predator. Somebody that's challenging us, or praise or criticism,
or giving us money or taking money from us. The
outer forms all get in the brain down into the
amigla as simply pray and predator, seeking that which we know,
the fear of losing that which we seek, and the
fear of gaining of that which we try to avoids.
That's all stress is, and stress is simply an imbalanced
ratio of perceptions. You balance the racist perception, stress is gone.
Speaker 1: So if you're overwhelmed with work and you've got too
many plates spinning in the back where that would obviously
be predator in that sense.
Speaker 2: Well you're you if you blame something as causing it
instead of looking at the way you're prioritizing your day.
If you're filling your day with the highest priority actions
and you set realistic strategies in place to achieve something,
that same activity, if it's delegated to lower the lower
stuff is delegated to somebody else, it's a catalyst that
stress is a catalyst for you to look to prioritize
your life and delegate lower party things and get on
with the thing that produces the most. It's helping you.
Speaker 1: Very true sir, very true. Now, you say every once
in a while in your in your teachings that everyone
that everyone lives according to the hierarchy of values. How
can someone discover there their values without lying to themselves?
Speaker 2: Great question. If you just ask somebody their values, in
which I've done, I don't know a few hundred thousand
people over the last forty seven years. I'd have to
say that most people don't know their values. They think
they do, okay, And I'll give an example of that
before I go further. I was speaking in Johannesburg at
the Success Summit in twenty twelve. They are about five
thousand people there. I was the opening speaker. I think
Richard Branston was the last speaker, and there's a bunch
of speakers in between. And when I got up on stage,
I said, how many of you, because it was about
business and wealth, says, how many of you would love
to be financial independent where your passive income exceed your
active income. Every hand went up, some people put two
hands up, some people put their leg and hands up
in there fair enough, and there's a VIP section in
a general audience. I said, great, and there's roaring people
are all roaring yes, Yes, that's what we want.
Speaker 1: I said, great, we'll be right back after a word
from our sponsor, and now back to the show.
Speaker 2: Now, in a really humble manner, how many of you
are financially independent where your passive income has exceeded your
active income. All the hands went down except seven. Now
this is this is wow. This is lower than I
ever imagined. I would have.
Speaker 1: Thought, yeah, twenty percent, maybe thirty.
Speaker 2: Well, no, I wouldn't say twenty, but I would have guessed, well,
there's only one percent of the population had achieve it.
Speaker 1: Interesting, but that's a much smaller even in five thousand people.
Speaker 2: Seven You would have thought that that would have been.
Speaker 1: One hundred and fifty fifty or undes somebody fifty seven.
Speaker 2: Wow. And I said, be honest, because financial independent doesn't
mean you have your own job work for somebody else.
Financial impendance is you have passive income exceeding needs of
active income. You don't have to work. You work only
because you love to seven people, And I said, isn't
that interesting? You all claim that you have a value
on financial independence. You're all coming to a seminar thinking
that's what's going to happen, But only seven people have
their hand up and not interesting. And I said, let
me explain to you why. Everybody get a piece of
paper out, and on that piece of paper, I'm going
to hand you in a pallette ten million US dollars.
Every one of you here will be receiving ten million
US dollars. And it's a palette picture in front of you,
right now, sitting in front of you, yours. Now, on
this piece of paper, you have sixty seconds to write
the ten things you're going to do with that money. Wow, right,
what you're going to do with that money? You got
sixty seconds on your mark, It said, oh, rise fastest again.
You know what they're going to do with that money? Oh,
I said, stop, sixty seconds up, hand it to the
person on your left. Everybody there, calculate how much of
that money is still an asset and how much has
been spent on consumables that depreciated in value or will
depreciate and tie between twenty and eighty percent of the
money was spent on consumables that depreciated, which meant that
they had a value on lifestyle versus not financial independence.
And when they think of financial independence, people who market
financial dependence sometimes put fancy boats, fancy cars, fancy jewelry,
fancy stuff to appease their fantasy instead of actually teaching
ground them on the fundamentals of building wealth. So I said,
if twenty to eighty percent of you just bought things,
then you don't have a desire in your values to
build wealth. You have a desire to spend it on
consumables that appreciate. So unless you have a change in values,
you are not going to be financial independent because the
higher gey values dictates how you manage money, and every
decision you make is based on what you believe will
give you the greatest advantage of or disadvantag according to
your values at that moment, and they all kind of
got quiet. Oh, I said, now you can either accept
that you're not going to be financial inpendent, or you
can have a shift in values. Today. We can shift that.
If that's of interest to you, I'd be glad to
share with you how that can be done, because a
lot of people live in the fantasy that they know
what their values are, but then when you actually look,
it's your life that demonstrates your values, not what you say.
It's not what you say, it's what you live.
Speaker 1: Well, let's dig into this for a little bit, because
that's a fascinating idea. Now that's instead of turning it
into building wealth, let's turn it into spirituality. Sure, spirituality,
because so many many people claim that they want to
be spiritual and they want to be closer to source
and God or whatever it is, whatever they call it,
and yet they don't do the work. How can you?
How can you? Because because our audience is very obviously
heavily spiritual, and they're they're searching for spiritual guidance and
spiritual ideas and and they're trying to figure this whole
insane thing called life out. But I've discovered through my
experiences and myself included early on, where you put on
the suit, the character, the facade of I am so spiritual.
That's you and I both know people like this that
are so done that album at moments. No, there's always
a we come and go from character to characters exactly,
and clothing and suits that we put on and off.
But there's a lot that will say I'm so spiritual,
I'm so spiritual, I'm so spiritual. But when I uh,
when a team member of mine shows me and email
from a customer who I literally had an email the
other day. It was fascinating. They were berating us because
we just couldn't get to them fast enough. I'm like,
it was Sunday, we were off, We're a small company,
so on, and they just we got bombarded with like
seven or eight just it started getting nasty, got nastier
and nastier. But at the bottom of her tag was peace,
love and what spirituality or something, And I was just like, wow,
So it's one thing to put yourself out there as
someone who's spiritual, but to walk the walk as a
whole other conversation. So how would you frame that in
the same kind of framing that you just did with
the wealth?
Speaker 2: You know the story of Guru Nnik, or at least
one of the many he goes to the Kaba. No,
I don't know that one, Okay, So Guru Nnik, who
is the head of the Sikh movement, founded the Sikh moment.
There's a story, and there's variations of this story, so
it's probably not a true thing. I think it's a metaphor.
But he supposedly goes to Mecca the Muslim Kappa. Before
they restricted it, people could go there and He's laying
there with his feet facing the sacred rock in the wall,
and the people of the Muslims are irate. You can't
put your feet to the sacred stone. This is sacred,
this is godly. You can't put your feet in the
direction God. You have to submit and humble yourself and
prostate forward and face God. You never turn your feet
that direction. And he said, oh, if you can tell
me where God isn't, I'll put my feet there.
Speaker 1: That's a good story.
Speaker 2: Okay. Now Einstein said something really really nicely. If divinity
was omnipresent, and where's God not, It's in every experience,
he said, it's in every act, every experience. We go
along with our human judgments and label it good or evil,
spiritual or not spiritual, and then we sometimes over the
months of weeks, years later, we find out, ooh, it
wasn't what we first thought. It was actually something that
was helping us in our development growth, So it was spiritual.
We didn't see it. So I'm a little leery about
boxing in spirituality because there's pairs of opposites in the world.
There's a great book of the Old and New Testament
that William Burr wrote called contradictions of the Bible.
Speaker 1: That should be fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And what he did is he took every quote
in the Bible that said this, and then every quote
had said just the opposite of this in the Bible. Yeah, yeah,
I thought the Bible and it's a nice book. I'm
am introduced to me when I was about eighteen, I think,
and so people that have one belief will read that part.
People have the other belief will read that part. Both
will believe they're spiritual, and they are. But the thing
is is that purse over there will think they're not spiritual,
and that person over there will think they're not spiritual
because it doesn't match their idea what the spirituality is.
So I found many years ago that I was trying
to be kind of one sided, nice without me and
kind without cruel, and positive without negative, and this kind
of thing. And then I found out that those repressed
sides eventually surfaced, and I was really honest with myself.
I found I had all of them. I went through
the Oxford English Dictionary forty one years almost forty two
years now, and went through and underline every behavioral trait
that I could find in the biggest dictionary I could find.
There were four thousand, six hundred and twenty eight traits
I found literally isolated them out, and then over on
the side, I went over, and who is it that
I know that displays that trait more than anybody I know?
And I put their initial out there, and then I
went inside myself and I went, Okay, John, go to
a moment where and when you perceive yourself displaying or
demonstrating that same behavior, that same trait action in action,
and identify where you did it, when you did it,
who'd you do it to, and who perceived you doing that.
And I kept doing that until I could see that
I did it as much as the most extreme people
I knew. And when I did, I kind of woke
up and realized nothing's missing in me. I have all
the traits, I have all the behaviors, and it's only
the traits I'm trying to get rid of that make
me feel empty and that make me attract events in
my life to help me see that I have that trait,
to humble me from my pride and to lift me
from my shame so I can be authentic and whole.
So at the level of the soul, nothing's missing in
us at the level of the senses, things appear to
be missing in us. It's the things that were too
proud or too humble to admit that we see in
others but we don't see in ourselves. That are the
emptinesses that drive us the experiences to eventually discover that
it's nothing missing, to wake up our soul.
Speaker 1: Would you agree that we are all walking around life
with the story that we have built built our foundation
on and more narrative most more, not just one story,
multiple narratives that build our foundation. And then occasionally, as
you get older, that narrative starts to shift. I assume
things that you believe that eighteen you don't believe that
evolving evolving. Correct, some though they might evolve, but as
long as they evolve within the same field, in the
same box. Where because there's one thing, you can have
this story and evolve within that box. But when there's
another box out there, who's saying, well, wait a minute,
that's not it. That's where wars start, that's where.
Speaker 2: But that's that's also where rigidity is oftened.
Speaker 1: Because we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the second, we think we know, yeah, what that
divine nature really is, and that what that spirituality really is.
We just boxed ourselves in because Michael Montane, a French philosopher,
travel all over the world trying to find a universal
morality and he found that in time and space, over time,
things that were considered good over here were considered bad
over here. I mean right now, for instance, we have
in some Middle Eastern traditions older men and very young
girls are married. Absolutely in our country, that's prison.
Speaker 1: Correct, So.
Speaker 2: Is it good REvil in that culture? It's normal? This
culture's not. So the question is is is spirituality limited
to a culture, a language, a time, a space or
is it omnipresent? And does is it inclusive? Is it exclusive?
Is it based on our limited understanding? Is it based
on something transcend it to that? Is it imminent transcendent?
Speaker 1: Fear based not fear based?
Speaker 2: Is it is it emotionally based and judgment based? Or
is it love? Impedocles outlined He's the one that gave
rise to the four elements fire, air, water on earth. Right,
it's about sixth century BC, and he basically said, there's
love and strife. Love is the integration of the elements
and all the elements or pairs of opposites, and strife
is the dissimilarity and the differences between the elements seen.
Heracleiitis came along and said that there's a hidden order
in the unity of opposites. There's an evidence of love
in the opposites, but there's judgment when we see one
side without the other. So when we first meet somebody,
we'll have a first impression. May not be the whole,
it may just be the part we see. If we're
in fatuid, we're blind to the downsides. If we're resentful,
we're blind to the upsides. We have intrusive thoughts. Our
amigler runs us wild, We seek and avoid. We're an
automaton reacting to our misperception and expectations. But then if
we get to know that person days, weeks, months, and years,
we find out that the person we infactried with had
downsites called marriage, and the person that we thought was
terrible catalyze some of the greatest growth in our life.
So which one is it? It's neither. The state of
unconditional love, which is the authentic self, sees neither. But
they are inauthentic self sees either one or the other,
because the Amigla sees one or the other and is
frightened of losing one and frightened of gaining the other
lives and gain and loss illusions. The Master lives in
a world of transformation and honors the transformation and sees
it all part of the spiritual experience. So the question
is is at what level of is our awareness. There
are some people that are living very much in the
amigla and their idea of black and white and good
and evil, as way down here the people at the
top have a very broader perspective. I sat with the
Sheik Fadhala, who is a scholar, Muslim scholar, and we
had a very great conversation in Cape Town, South Africa,
for about two hours, and he's a very cosmic, being
very aware, and he studied he knows the Koran by heart.
And I've also met people when I was doing a
movie called Oh My God, and I met jihadist that
are really radical and really polarized and really black and white,
both of them reading the same book, opening it differently.
Same as you see in Christianity and Judaism, you see
the same thing. Almost every group of religious instruction has
fundamentalists and the universalists more miguala based and more executive based,
and so it's all, you know, where's God not, It's
all part of the divine if we know how to
ask the right question to see both sides of the
event and not have the illusion of our instruction and
our moral hypocrisy stop us from seeing the whole. So
it's about asking really broad questions to see how whatever's happening,
how is it helping me film my spiritual mission.
Speaker 1: I never actually thought about that, but you're absolutely right.
In every spiritual path, no matter in philosophies. It could
be Confusism, it could be Taoism, it could be Buddhism.
Speaker 2: There is the fundamental that is absolutist and black and white, and.
Speaker 1: Then and they're so, yeah, there's the mystical Christians, and
then there is the fundamental Christians sactly that take the
literally the Bible.
Speaker 2: The mystical is one that's attempting to gnostically communicate with
the divine individually, and they may use the traditional beliefs
of that particular faith to guide those descriptions. But the
fundamentalist is more of a literalist, and they take a
particular text and they read it a certain way, and
there's literally a hell, there's a literary heaven hell, and
stuff like that. But I always say thinking makes it so,
you know, Hell is basically when you're ungrateful for the
order of your life, and heavenly is when you actually
can see the hidden order and you actually see there's
nothing to fix. As long as we're in fatuated with somebody,
we're going to want to change ourselves to be more
like them and be in their life. Think about the
first weeks you get in a new relationship in you're
how the infatuate, you'll sacrifice what's important you to be
with them for fear of loss of them. But have
you resent them and you now want to get away
from them, you'll sacrifice them for you. When you're infatuated,
you'll almost sacrifice them as a homicide. When you're on
the narcissistic side, when you're really angry at them and
resentful to him. But those aren't who they are. That's
not who you are. When you're too humble to admit
what you see in them, that's an impostor syndrome. When
you're too proud to admit what you see in them,
that's an imposter syntome. When you come and realize that
they're both sided and so are you, and you actually
bring those into the balance. Now you're at the soul,
the state of unconditional love, not the state of judgment.
And that's what Empedocles was trying to say, and Harry
Cleidus was trying to say.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating because you're absolutely right. Where when you are
infatuated with somebody, I remember back, and I've been married
for many years, so I've had that for a long time.
But early on, especially when I was a young young man,
you would do anything, you sacrifice, You sacrifice to be
with that person. And then you put on this perfect
mask and everything which can't you can't hand sustain.
Speaker 2: It's non sustainable.
Speaker 1: And they do too. It depends, and so then this
thing start to crack.
Speaker 2: And then you know, well, no, the fantasy crack.
Speaker 1: Great, that's what I mean.
Speaker 2: The truth about you and them emerge, right, and that
is the path of the unconditional love. The path of
unconscial love is says that I see both sides of me.
If you meet somebody. There was a beautiful little instagram spoof.
The other day, I saw one hundred and three year
old woman's being interviewed by this individual and her husband
is like one hundred and they're on the show and
he falls asleep her on her chest. They're right right
over your breast. And the guy's interviewing and says, how
long you've been married? And said eighty something years? And
they and they, and he said, well, did you ever
think about divorce? She said, nope, not once. Murder it murder,
She said, I thought about murdering every day for these
last eighty years. What a great but it was. The
guy fell over his chair, his laughing sward, oh, it
is so great, because the reality is our amigla wants
a pleasure without a pain always. But our executive center
knows that's not real, and it knows that if you're
going to grow and reach the soul, the state of
unconditional love, you're going to have to embrace both sides
of the individual. You don't need to get rid of
part of you to be loved. You don't need to
gain something or lose something to be yourself. But people
think they do in these facades and these impostors, and
they think they need to put on this facade for
fear of loss, or put on this facade it's tough
for fear of gain.
Speaker 1: But haven't we given away so much of our power
in so many different areas of our life because we're
always chasing, at least most are always chasing pleasure without
the work.
Speaker 2: Well, that hedonistic pursuit has a thing called hedonic adaptation.
I first found out about this about forty one years ago. Also,
that striving for pleasure without pain will be futile, As
Kipling says, the pleasure in pain, though distinguishable by the senses,
they're inseparable in actuality. Can't separate them because the very
thing that you have pleasure of the fear of loss
of it's pain. The very thing you have pain about,
the fear of gain of it is pain, But the
fantasy of loss of it is pleasure. So you can't
separate to us. You know, if you got your ex
boyfriend coming over, that's painful, the fantasies escape him. If
you got your new boyfriend coming over, if he leaves you,
that's painful. So pleasure and pain are inseparable. And Axigoras
said that again two five hundred something years ago. He said,
you can't separate it to their lopsided perceptions. They're incomplete awarenesses.
When you see both at the same time, you actually
see what's actually there. Actuality is different from reality. Reality
is that what you realize to your senses. Actuality is
what's actual there. It's what's actually there. And when you're
actually there at the soul, there's nothing to seek or avoid.
You're just present and empowered with fulfillment.
Speaker 1: John, let me ask you, so many of us are,
you know, looking for our purpose of what to do
while we're here in this insane video game that we're
all walking through this inxane movie or play, and we're
looking for our purpose. We're looking for our quote unquote
so calling. We'll be right back after a word from
our sponsor, and now back to the show. What do
you How do you discover what that is? Or do
you build a life that's aiming at towards it in
some way? Like how do you find because so many
people are lost, they don't know what to do. They're
just doing the nine to five, they're doing the rat race.
They aren't happy, and they're like, you know, I have
this great job or I have this bad job, but
you know what I really want to do. Is I
want to sing, or I want to be an artist,
or I want to open up a business or whatever
that is. How how can we find that sole calling
or that purpose within us?
Speaker 2: That goes back to the question that I didn't get
to answer that I'll answer that you asked about how
you determine values. Everybody's got a set of priorities, a
set of values in their life. It's a hierarchy of values.
Whatever is the very highest on the value, the thing
that's most important, the thing that's highest in priority, the
thing that's most meaningful, most fulfilling, most inspiring, you're spontaneously
inspired to act on it. You don't require any external
motivation to do it. It's like a boy with video games.
He doesn't have to be motivated to do with video games,
but he has to be motivated to is chores and homework.
So whatever is high on your value, we spontaneously feel
called to do. We are inspired. Whenever we're doing our
highest value. The blood glucose and auction goes into the
media prefund cortex and there are spontaneous action potentials that
spontaneously fire that he'll bring Gama synchronicities in the brain,
which are confirmations of authenticity. Your ontological identity revolve around
your highest value. Your teleological purpose revolve around your highest value.
Your epistemological area of expertise revolve around your highest value.
That's where you're going to excel. So knowing the value,
the highest value is in setting sale by filling your
day with the highest priority action daily is the highest
priority thing anybody can do to fulfill what's meaningful to them,
and that is what they feel their purposes. In my case,
it's teaching. I teach every day. I do podcasts every day,
or write every day, or do consults or meetings or
you know, I'm teaching every day. That's what I love doing,
researching and teaching. So that's what I feel my calling
is on this plane I've been doing in fifty three years.
If you have a mother's highest value as her children
taking care of those children, if you ask her who
are you, She'll say, I'm a mother. That's her onciological identity.
Mine would be teacher. If you I worked with the
lady who is a three time gold medalist in pole vaulting,
you ask her who are you, I'm a professional pole Walter.
I'm an Olympic medalist pole Walter. If you meet a
person that's running businesses and entrepreneurs, highest value is entrepreneurship.
I'm an entrepreneur. So your identity and your purpose is
an expression of your highest value. So knowing what that
is is the first step and acting as it. And
when you're living a coin to your highest value. The
blood glucose an auction goes into the forebrain where your
most neutral and objective. The media briefunel cortex sends signals
down and uses gabba and glutamate transmitters to calm down
the amigula's vicissitudes, all the emotions of the amigla and
calm it down and help us see both sides salultaneously,
where you have reason and objectivity and we're not swayed
by the impulses and instincts of our animal nature. And
that's our sole nature, that's our angelic nature, which is
the messenger of the light and state that we have inside.
So when we live by our highest values, we have
the closest thing we have. And in signs of the
American I think it's September October twenty twenty two, there's
a fantastic article that they describe the media prefunnel tors
cortex as the seat of the self because it's where
we have the most integration and integration. Information theory, the
global workspace theory shows that's where we have the most
integration and neutralization. That's where we're most unconditionally loving in
a state of grace. That's where we have Gama synchronosities
and Aha moments and tears of gratitude and costalt in
our brain when we function from it. So determining what's
highest on the value is the first step in opening
the doorway to a purposeful, clear calling in life. Now,
I didn't get to answer that from the earlier question,
but how do you determine the values? If you ask people,
I assure you I've done millions of these, you're not
going to get an accurate answer. But if you ask
them a set of questions that kind of hit him
from a back door, you can. Your space is a
great indicator of what you value. If I gave you
a gift and it had zero value to you the
second I left this room, you toss it. Yeah, if
I gave you something like cufflinks that they love in
wisdom on them. That guy gave me because I told
him a story about the day I met Howard Hughes,
and he told me, there's only two things they can
never take away from you. It's you're loving your wisdom.
Those have meaning to me. So they travel wherever I
go around the world, these cufflings. So there's a thing
called intimate space, individual space, social space, and public space,
and proxemics. The more proximate it is, the more intimate
it is, the more eighteen inches around you, anything that's
extremely valuable you'll keep there. The more it is distal,
the more it has no value. So you can look
at somebody's space and look at where they spend their
time most and what they fill their space with most,
and what it represents, and get a really good indication
of what they really value, because every decision they make
is based on what they believe will give them the
greatest advantage of or disadvantage in that moment. Every perception, decision,
action is based on their values. Now, the second would
determine it is time you find time, make time, spend
time on things that are valuable to you. Procrastinate, hesitate,
and frustrate on things that don't. So you won't miss
your podcast. You know you're going to do those podcasts,
but you might miss some social function. It's not really
inspired to you that you come.
Speaker 1: Up or go to the miss a gym or the
gym or something like that.
Speaker 2: Exactly, whatever is low in your values, you'll procrastinate, hes toitate, frustrating.
Whatever is high in your values, you'll discipline, reliable and
focused on it. And a discipline is a disciple of
your soul, if you will, that's when you're being almost
authentic to what it's calling is. So your time and
your space are great indicators of what your life demonstrates.
And what many people do is they compare themselves to
others any other people think it should be that, and
then beat themselves up when it's not that because it's
what it is. Instead of honor what it is, they're
trying to be second of being somebody else, instead of
first being themselves. The third indicator is what energy they have.
Whenever they're doing something that's high in their values, their
energy goes up. The mitochondria in the pre funnel CORTEXX
fire and there's vast amount of energy sitting in that area.
The second, we do low priorty things are mitochondria shut
down and they start actually going into a danger zone
and shut down. They start to disassemble. So when we're
living by or highest values, our energy level lets us
know it. We have more energy at the end of
doing something that's meaningful. If you're doing a great podcast,
your energize when you're done. If you're doing it, it's like,
oh that was a long one. We weren't energized, you
weren't engaged. So anytime you're doing something that's extremely meaningful, inspiring,
and it's really high in your value or energy goes
up and it goes down if you're doing anything low
on value. And the reason it's doing that is to
let you know that you're not being authentic to yourself
and you're not delegating those job duties to somebody who
is inspired to do it, and you keep doing something
that's devaluing you. Because anytime you do something low on
your values your value stuff. Anytime you do something high
on your value, your value. The fourth one is money,
and I just use that as an example earlier. The
hierchep of your values dictates your financial destiny. If you
have a higher value on spending all your money on
your kids, it will go there. It won't go towards
financial independence, it'll go towards having great kid experiences. If
your highest values on the house, it'll go there. If
it's highest on travel and go there. It's on food,
it goes there. The higher gep of your values dictates
where you spend your money. So where's most of your
money going? First, second, and third most? That tells you
where your highest values are. And the one that goes
most is where your highest one is. So when I
was in my twenties, I was buying forty to seventy
books a week reading because I read at least four
to seven books a day, and in the process of
reading books for everything, classes, seminars, education, man, I've always
had money for that, But I didn't have money to
go party. I didn't have money to go do this
things that other people want to do. They had a
different set about. So your highercarde value shows in your
way you manage your money and where your money goes.
The fifth one is where do you bring the most
ordered organization to I walk in your studio, it is
highly organized and ordered. It's a beautiful studio. This is
important to you, obviously, thank you, because the discipline and
the order of this is really evident because I pay
attention to these things. And so you tell me where
you have the highest order and organization, and people will say, well,
I don't have it, I'm a mess. No, not in
your highest value. It may be your social calendar that's
highly organized. It may be your workout routine, maybe your
spiritual rituals, whatever that is. It may be education, it
may be being with your kids every single day, may
be going and making sure you're fit. But you have
an area that's highly organized. Your calendar is probably very
organized and making sure you get to the exactly what
you're going to do on what days, because that's where
it's your high value is. Then you also look at
where your most disciplined, reliable, and focused. You will not
let yourself down on your highest value. I won't. I
will do a seminar. I don't care if I haven't
slept in a day or two. I will still do
my seminar. I won't let that down. I've never missed
a seminar in fifty three years, so that's something I
just do. My research is daily, but I'll procrastinate on
some of the other stuff. I don't cook. I haven't
cooked since I was twenty four, haven't driven a car
in thirty five years. I don't do that.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 2: I learned that anytime you're doing high party things, your
self worth goes up. Anytime you're doing low party things,
it goes down. So why would I want to do
low party things? I delegate that to people who'd love
to do it, surround myself with those people, and get
on with what I do. With that, I'm excellent a
my core competence that I'm inspired by, and that liberates
yourself from a whole lot of drama and tragedycing crazies
and MiG love behaviors that you get. So you look
at where you're disciplined the next one, next three, or
what are you thinking about? What are you visualizing and
what are you affirming internal dialogue about how you would
love your life to be that shows evidence are coming true.
If there's no evidence, it's not high in your value.
If it's not what you would love, it's not high
in your value. So don't tell me something that is
showing up, but it's not what you love. And don't
show me something you would love. It's not showing up.
But what is it you would love that's showing up
in those three areas? That tells me what's valuable, because
if it's really valuable, you make it happen. This is valuable.
When I walk in, I see all the posters, and
I see all the equipment everything else. You've put your
money into it, you put your effort into it. You're
not gonna let anything stop you from achieving what's in
that area. It shows up in here very obvious. But
maybe in your workout that's not priority.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm trying, but you'll do it.
Speaker 2: But that's second. If somebody comes up and says, will
you do acast, do a podcast or a show or
a new movie, you'll pass that up easily for that movie,
I'm sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But the thing is that when you know, but
when I was a young man, physical.
Speaker 2: Was that was a different set of value that values
are changing.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I had to I had to look good,
I had to feel good.
Speaker 2: I had to you know, all that kind of you
found a mate, yeah.
Speaker 1: And then and then you let and then you let
yourself go that probably good cook, She's a very good coot.
Speaker 2: But the reality is that the higercuy of values is
dictating these things. So the next one is what do
you externally converse with other people about. So people come
up to me and they say, well, doctor de Martiniz
has your kids. What does that tell you? Children are
important to them? How's your business? Does it tell you?
How's your golf cam? Does it tell you? How is
your your exercise coming? How's your investments? People will lead
the conversation to what engages them most, and you are
leading conversations conscious or unconsciously towards what is inspiring, and
if people converse about it, you get engaged and forget time.
If you're talking about something else, you're like, got to go.
So what do you want to converse with other people
about most? The next one is what is in inspires
you that brings tears to your eyes when you're doing it,
And what's common to the people that brings tears to
your eyes when you're interacting with So in my case,
studying the great philosophers and the Nobel Prize winners and
the great thinkers and something else that's tear jerking to
me to study their lives and how they thought, the
way they didn't come up with solutions or seeing people
do extraordinary performance and achievement at young ages. Tear jerking.
Oh I love that so because that represents what I'm
dedicated to. How do I maximize human awareness, potential and
performance in life. So that's really in line with my value.
So that's a tear jerker. So I use the tear
jerking inspiration as a guide to authenticity, back to the soul.
It's a confirmation of the authenticity of the soul. The
next one is what are the three most consistent, persistent
goals that you're dedicated to that you are actually bringing
into reality. It's coming true slowly, but surely they're coming
true that you have not given up on. You just
keep persevering on. And that's why you're doing what you're
doing with a podcast. You're going to reach millions of
people with that podcast. You got a message and with
the mission has a message. You're going to bring that
out there and you're going to do it in visual
and you're going to do it in auditory, and you're
going to do it clean, and it's going to be
a special thing that's going to change their lives. So
that's obviously comes through because I can see it just
walking in this place. And the last one is what
do you study, read about, learn about and keep going
to feed your mind? What are you watching on YouTube?
If you look carefully, you'll see that it's got a
pattern to it. There's a certain area of the bookstore,
you go to, a certain area in the Amazon, you
keep it going to certain things you like reading, certain
things you watch on YouTube. There's a pattern. What's that core?
If you go through and answer three answers to each
of those thirteen questions, those thirty nine questions will reiterate.
And then you take and count up how many answers
are reiterated, the most, the second most, the third most.
It'll give you a bang on shop if you're honest
with the answers, bang on shot of what's really important
to you, what your life really demonstrates, not your fantasy,
it's not what you think it ought to be, but
what it actually is.
Speaker 1: Well, you mentioned something in regards to that pole vaulter,
the goal metalist, and you're saying like, if you ask her, oh,
I'm I'm an athlete, or I'm an olympian and the
other person was an entrepreneur. I found it, and I
want to hear what you're thinking about this is I
found it when I was growing up, coming up, I
associated myself as a director filmmaker, and as long as
my career was going well, I was good. But when
that career wasn't going well, because I associated wholeheartedly with
my career, my life was in shambles. So how do
you balance that.
Speaker 2: Your hark Your values are changing based on the pains
and pleasures that you experience. So if you associate enough
pleasure with something, it goes up on the value list,
enough pain with something, it goes down on the value list.
So you ran into a situation as a director either
you were doing things in administration that you didn't really
want to be doing and it was bogging you down,
or you ended up having an expectation that was elevated
and that didn't live up too you saw it as
a failure instead of as an opportunity to do like
Edison and just go and read them to do the
other thing. And so that painfulness wound, if you will,
or that association would make you withdraw something from that direction,
but not obviously forever, but it would withdraw from that,
and you'll then go off on a tangent trying out
new things that will add more value to what that
real calling is eventually again. So you'll go and learn
new things about business or new learn things about delegating,
or new things about what I did managing people or whatever,
and you'll come back to it because you realize that
that was a part of the business that wasn't inspiring
to you, that needed to be addressed, and either you
had to learn it or you had to delegate it. Now,
I found it's more efficient to surround yourself with people
that know what they're doing and not have to go
through the learning curve because you'll run out of time otherwise.
So you surround yourself with people that are masters of
what they do to do the things that you would
love to delegate, so you can get on with doing
what you love doing. I don't do anything but teach,
research and write. That's about it. I don't do anything else.
I don't have any other responsibilities. I just teach, research,
rite every day. These are the three things I love doing.
The rest of it I delegate to experts.
Speaker 1: John I have to ask you.
Speaker 2: And by the way, somebody says, well, that's because you're
independently wealthy. No, I became independently wealthy because I did that, right.
Speaker 1: You weren't born now.
Speaker 2: I was twenty seven. I learned about delegation, and my
life really catalyzed. I was broke at the time, but
I was just coming out of school. I had massive
debts and I mean all kinds of stuff. I learned
to delegate and I became wealthy because of that. Because
I went on and did my core competence. It stayed
in my core competence and will follow my calling.
Speaker 1: John, I want to ask you because you're such an
interesting character in this world. I love you man, because
you obviously are very in the mind. You've read so
much many books, and you teach and you're on the
mental level. But you're also an extremely deep person with
connections to the soul and spirituality. How do you balance
that so well? Because it's a lot of people will
go so hard into the academic that they lose the soul,
or they go so far into the soul that they forget.
I got to live in this planet, you know, So
how do you do that?
Speaker 2: Very simple I believe that the wisdom of the ages
is both spiritual and mental. I don't see them as separate.
I don't see that. I don't see I'm a scientist too,
I don't see I've studied three hundred different disciplines. I
don't see science interfering with spirituality. True science and true
spirituality can't fight pseudoscience and pseudo spirituality and the biased
black and white dogma of both fight into spirituality because
there's a lot. I'm going to make a statement that
may be shocking to some people, but remember, where's God?
Speaker 1: Not?
Speaker 2: Where is the intelligence of the universe, Not if it
is in the quantum field. Let's just say that it's
the quantum field and there's a pan psychism, let's say
a spinosa thing or like Einstein. He said, it's enough
for me, on a daily base to sit and contemplate
the intelligence that permeates the universe. That's his idea of God.
That's a spiritual quest. As Rising Newton was a scientist
who figured out the principia of the gravitational laws movements
of the heavenly bodies. He was deeply dedicated to his
spiritual quest and studied alchemy also and he was very,
very fascinating. But he was an incredible scientist. Some of
the greatest scientists I know are very deeply committed to this.
And think about this. If there was no inherent order
in the universe, we can never make a science. We
would never even waste our time pursuing it because it
would be all random and there's no way of finding
any laws of the universe. Yeah, there's no rules, no
rules of the universe. So the really deeply committed individual.
I was just with Peter Daughtery the other day. He
was a Nobel Prize winner. We had a great conversation.
He reminds me of me when I'm older, and he said,
remind him him the younger. So he very very funny guy,
very very bright, very bright, polymathic, very very well read.
But he said, it's the pursuit of the magnificence of
the universe that drives us. It's the acknowledgment. Einstein said,
I just want to know how God thinks. Newton said,
I just want to know the divine master plan. Swedenborg says,
I just want to know the divine master plan. They
were very deeply spiritual mystics, but at the same time,
scientists grounded very strongly, because true science is just a
way of honoring the mystical path.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show.
Speaker 2: When you study the laws of the universe, and you
go deeper into the laws of the universe, you get
to people like Schrodinger, who was a mystic. You get
to Max Plant, who's a mystic. You get to you know,
some of the great Draq was a mystic. He was
studying heraclitis and studying philosophy. You get to people that
are probing the mysteries because that's what they're doing in science.
So true science and true spirituality are not fighting at all.
They're really the same thing and might. And that's why
I explore as many disciplines i can, because if it's
if to me, that's the highest spiritual quest and the
highest spiritual honor is to know what the universe has
made out of it, how it's structured, how it works.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing that so many people think that, oh,
this is all just by accident or there is no
organizing idea or power behind it all. But there are
so many rules that there's certain things that are unbreakable rules.
Speaker 2: Well that's their laws. And the usual laws are unvilable.
Human laws are unlivable. We come up, we come up
with all these little moral constructs that are just trivial, and.
Speaker 1: It changes decades a decade. Yeah, culture and culture.
Speaker 2: You know, smoking was terrible now, but it was once cool.
They said cool.
Speaker 1: Cigarettes that doctors used to go the brand that I smoke.
Speaker 2: I read a book, The Serpent and the Staff. It
was about the history of of medicine. It's a fantastic book,
and it showed that at one time coca cola that
had cocaine in it, yes, opium, morphine, opium, caffeine, sugar.
They were sold there as a marketing to bring people
into addiction, to build the business. That's where you went.
You went there to get that stuff. You got the
cough syrup that full ofed with opium and codeine and pleasure. Right,
everything that was there that was sold pleasure was sold
as treatment. So they started out, you know, with trefining
operations for surgery, which is removing evil spirits, and they
came in with you know, potions to get rid of
evil demons or whatever. So they started out spiritual and
became sort of a cience, but it's really still based
on that spiritual quest. How do we bring order to
they call them orderlies in the hospital, try to bring
order to people's.
Speaker 1: Lives, beautifully said. Now, I wanted to touch upon trauma
because so many people. Not one of us gets out
of this, well, none of us get out of this alive.
That's very slive. Secondly, every one of us has some
sort of trauma or pain that we go through in life.
That's part of it, the rules, that's a universalspable.
Speaker 2: Yes, pain and pleasures can serve through time and space.
Speaker 1: Absolutely so. Can trauma actually be a spiritual advantage? And
if so, why does it feel like punishment while you're
in it?
Speaker 2: If you live in the illusion that life has a
one sided thing and you're trying to get a one
sided system, the pursuit of a monopole will create a
bipolar condition and you'll basically be trying to avoid pain
and seek pleasure all your life. You can't. It's a
waste of time even pursuing that, trying to do that,
because they're inseparable. As I said, the pleasure of the
person that you and infatuated with, enamored with is the
pain of the loss of them. If they go away
or they criticize you, it's terrifying. So that pleasure is
the pain they can't The second, when you're neutral to somebody,
the pleasure and pain is now neutral. But the second
you have a pleasure out of it, you have the
fear of loss, the pain of loss. The second you
have a pain about something, you have the pleasure of leaving,
the pleasure of loss. The pain of being around somebody
you hate is the pleasure of escaping, and the pain
of the person you like is the loss of.
Speaker 1: So is that what Buddha was trying to say when
attachment is the root of all suffering?
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Buddha was saying that the desire for that
which is unobtainable and the desire to avoid that which
is unavoidable as the source of human suffering. And that's
the attachment. The attachments are all the intrusive thoughts, are
the things you infatuate and resent, all of its distractions
from being present and whole the soul. So I really
believe that we have the capacity to transcend it. But
trauma is not what happens to us. Trauma is what
is based on what we expect and how we perceive it.
I'll give you example. If I put your here, I
don't know if anybody can see this here, I'd take
the hand here, Yes, and I take a sledgehammer. I've
got a big sledgehammer.
Speaker 1: Boom, slam it.
Speaker 2: Sure, just slam your finger. Sure, just flatten it. You're
gonna go whoa.
Speaker 1: Whoa, you go wow, I try to do more. But yes, yeah,
you don't want to punch me with the other hand.
I die, punch me go man, you go.
Speaker 2: What's the heck? Because your expectation didn't think that was coming,
and you thought that's negative without positive. But now let
me add a few twists to it. Okay, situational ethic here,
you're not motivated by money? Are you really? Not? Really?
Speaker 1: Ay more?
Speaker 2: Okay, none more. Well, let's just say I was going
to offer you a billion dollars okay billion cash, sure,
and you could donate it to any spiritual quest you want,
and you were going to have when I'm through, you're
going to have an enlightened mind that's able to be
present and appreciative and inspired.
Speaker 1: Well, so you're giving me both the material and the
spiritu both of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm giving you a NonStop flood of the
best movie opportunities that you could ever dream of coming
your way.
Speaker 1: With a billion dollars that could make my own essentially.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you can make your movies and be spiritual
whatever I can make Avatar. Sure, if I told you
I'm going to have a magic wand and that's coming.
If I get to slam that finger, it's all yours. Wow.
If I if I slam that finger, that will be
sore for about a week, maybe ten days, The black
and blue will be gone. He'll be back to normal,
just like I've done as a carpenter or smashed his
thumb manytimes. But if I gave you all that, you
put your hand on there and slam away. Interesting, So
the expectation and the perception changed from the same exact
act slamming the thumb. So it's not the slamming of
the thumb that determines whether it's trauma or not. It's
the expectations and the perceptions and what you believe you're
gonna get out of it. So if you believe that
that's an opportunity. For instance, you know, Bruce Lee got
busted up pretty good. He had bad backs and injuries
and neurologicals and all kind of stuff. But if he
saw that that's going to get him the opportunity to
do a TV series and a major movies and everything else.
To end it because the outcome was worth it. Football
players know they're going to have concussions, they're going to
have probably brain damage and everything else, and they still
play football knowing that probability. So if the advantages are
still outweighing the disadvantages, it's not trauma. Trauma is a
perception that sees more drawbacks and benefits. I have the
opportunity to work with people every week, literally every week
in my break to experience my signature program, and I
have people come in here and I was traumatized by this.
My dad did this, my mom did this. You know,
I was in this car crash and I'd lost this.
I have stories all the time, people narrative, and I
ask them, good so, okay, I'm not denying some of
those things that happened. The question is what's the benefit?
And they go, there is no benefit. Really, you've never looked, Look,
what is the benefit that came out of it? In
that moment, What surjectory did that ship? Can I give
a story about that?
Speaker 1: Sure?
Speaker 2: So I have this lady that comes to my break
to experience in Florida. She's her mom abandoned her when
she was a young child four. That's what's her story is.
That's the story she's had for thirty five years, going
to a therapist. So thirty five, she's thirty nine and
her mom abandoned her. So she's this wounded, abandoned child,
victimized by her mom and thinking she's not good enough
associating with people that treat her that way because she's
treating herself that way, and the whole story and I
and she wanted to run the story. She wanted to
run a narrative and get sympathy, right, which her therapist,
you know, was obviously collecting on, you know. And I said,
I said, all right, so let's go. What did you
think you missed out on when your mom left? And
she said, well, I didn't get guidance, and I didn't
get attention, I didn't get affection. And she listed all
the things she thought she missed out on. Nothing's missing,
it just is in a different form. They're not acknowledging.
So who provided you guidance when your mom left at
age four? Nobody? Nobody. I didn't ask that, you answered
before you even thought, you didn't even try to look
who gave you guidance? And she finally said my aunt? Great?
Who else? My best friend's mom? Who else? Another best
friend's mom? Who else? A teacher? Good? And when they faded,
who emerged? And I showed her and traced who was
giving her guidance from the day or mom left, all
the way till today. And then we did that for
every one of those traits.
Speaker 1: You were breaking down our story.
Speaker 2: I'll breaking down her story.
Speaker 1: And I said, so, we'll be right back after a
word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.
Speaker 2: Now, what was the benefit of these people providing that
instead of your mom? What was the benefit of them
providing it? I can't see any you haven't looked. Try again,
I said, Well, I learned a different language. I was
with my aunt. We'd learned a different language. And she
had took me to the movies. And I have a
love for movies, and she's taken me and we go
and know all about movies and what else? I got
to go on adventures because my aunt was married to
a guy that took us out camping and doing things,
and yeah.
Speaker 1: All because her mom left her for and.
Speaker 2: Then we did it. And so she got a tear
in your eye and she goes, this is a lot
of blessings that came in my Mi linfe. I said,
now let's go back. If your mom had given you
that guidance, what'll been the drawback? At first she said, well,
it wouldn't be me. I said, no, that's the fantasy.
If your mom had been there the whole time and
didn't leave, what had been the drawback? And she stared
in space for a minute, got a tear in the eye,
and then shook. I said, what is it? She said
something my aunt told me when I was four that
I just remembered. What was it? I couldn't hear it
until just now I just got it. My aunt said,
your mom had bipolar condition.
Speaker 1: Oh she wasn't capable, and.
Speaker 2: Your mom put you in a bath and forgot you
were there, and the water was not it was getting
hotter and hotter and hotter, and you almost scalded and
you almost drowned. And lucky she came back and she
realized she forgot all about her daughter, and so she
asked her sister. She said, I almost killed my daughter.
I can't face the idea that could ever happen again.
I'm not in a position where I can raise my child.
Will you help me? So she gave the child to
the aunt the sister, and the sister understood and wanted
to have a child.
Speaker 1: So it worked out for her as well.
Speaker 2: So when she stopped and realized that the entire story
of thirty five years that I was an abandoned child
disappeared gone, and then her self image changed. Her desire
to see her mom changed. She wanted to see her
her Her fear about rejection was gone, her appreciation of
all the options she had changed, and the so called
story of the traumatic abandonment was no longer even in existence.
She then lost weight. She ended up allowing herself to
date really quality people instead of just the guys that
were beating her up because she was not worthy and
useless and rejected. All that story changed, and she went
on to write a book. I mean, her life changed
the moment she changed her perception. That's why William James said,
the greatest discovery of his generations the human beings can
alter in their lives and alterning by altering their perceptions
and attitude to mind the expectations. So when she asked
the new set of questions and held herself accountable to
do it, I held her accountable. I was a mean
booger doing that, but I got over the hump. She
gave me a big hugg atty and she says, you
just transformed thirty five years worth a story into positive
I love from my mom. I said, now we're talking,
and now we're seeing the hidden order in the apparent chaos,
and now we're seeing the spirituality and what we thought
wasn't spiritual. And that's where we labeled things out of
our ignorance instead of loved things of our wisdom.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's so part. Thank you for sharing that story.
You know. I'll tell you a quick story of myself
when I discovered this is when I was twenty six.
My first book I wrote was based on probably the
most traumatic time of my life, which is when I
was kind of locked in with the mob to make
a twenty million dollar movie about a mobster's life, and
my life was threatened on a daily basis for a year.
But then at the same time, I was flown out
to la and I met the biggest movie stars in
the world and billion dollar producers and so on. But
I was twenty six. I no, I had no defense.
I had no way to deal with this situation.
Speaker 2: The pain and the pleasure of the pain.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was like it was so extreme. I mean,
you're sitting here neck talking to Batman.
Speaker 2: That's when you were able to embrace your villain. You
get to be your hero.
Speaker 1: So that's what happened. So then it took me price
seventeen years before I wrote the book, and as I
was writing the book, I started to unravel it all
and the order I saw, the order of it. It
was extremely painful to go through. But once I saw it,
I was like, you know, if it wasn't for Hi Him,
I probably wouldn't be doing the work I'm doing today,
exactly because my first instinct was I want to teach
others how to avoid this pain. So I started teaching
filmmakers how to make it in the business. And then
years later I took the next step and opened up
a podcast, and then that led me to this opening
up a spiritual podcast helping people find but the instinct
to help and to put myself out there in the world,
all because of him. He did his job in this life,
you know, and he was a but he did what
he needed.
Speaker 2: Anytime you're addicted to one pull of a magnet, the
other pole and a magnet smacks you until you see
both sides.
Speaker 1: Say that one more time.
Speaker 2: Anytime you're addicted to one poll of a magnet, the
other pole of the magnet smacks you until you see
both sides. So if you're addicted to praise, you attract criticism.
You're adicted to protection, you attract it's true, to attract
the perpetrator. You're addicted to innocent sexual innocence, you attract
the perpetrator. These are all pairs of opposites that try
to teach you that if you're addicted to something, you'll
stay juvenilely dependent, and you need the challenger to make
you procosial, to see independently and grow up. One stimulates
the the estrogen that keeps you youthful and young and
like a little baby independent, and the other one gets
a test austin ready for you to fight and fight,
ready to go. You need both in life, maximum growth
and development occurs at the border of all pairs of opposites.
Speaker 1: So with all these all this talk about the negative
and the positive and we you know, seeing both. Like
you just said, the world seems a bit upside down now, John,
It seems a little crazy.
Speaker 2: And highly polarized, very highly polarized.
Speaker 1: So so many things are happening in every industry in
the world, from politics to food, to religion to everything.
It seems like things are just crackling.
Speaker 2: As AI becomes more intelligent, emotions have to be volatile
to balance. So say that as the AI comes in
and integrates the intelligence and makes us have access to
things that we hadn't seen before, the emotional polarities will
have to be balance that process. That's part of the
nature of the creation. There was a It wasn't Nietzsche.
It was Shri no ur a Bindo sre Arbindo and
the Life Divine, the book he did Life devint. He
said that as spirituality expands, so does materiality. As unity expands,
so do's duality. And as we strive for one, so
does the other. To make sure we maintain an equilibrium
to keep us growing.
Speaker 1: So everything that's going on right now, so many people
feel so fearful about what's happening? What advice do you
have for them?
Speaker 2: If they are unfatuated with how it should be, they're
going to feel the loss of it. And if they
are resentful about how it is, they're going to fear
the gain of it, and they're going to be caught.
Instead of asking the questions, how do I see both
sides of most sides? Whenever I see something that somebody
says that's terrible, you know, it's like the story about
the guy. Remember whether he has the farm and he
has a son.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the old Jennies proverb.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it may be if you say so, because
you think this is terrible my son, and you know,
he injures himself, he can't work in the fields. The
town people say that's terrible, and then you know the
next day and then they find out that he gets
a horse, and now you can plow the fields, and
that's now it's good if you say so. And he
goes back and forth and back and forth. People want
to quickly jump to a conclusion and put a label
on things, which is an amigler response instead of an
executive center where reason occurs. But wisdom is asking questions
to see both sides simultaneously, where we liberate ourselves from
the emotional vicissitudes and see things as they are. Because
right now there may be polarities, but the law varistic
escalation keeps those polarities in equilibrium even though they are
non local. We just have to open our eyes and
see on a broader scale where the other side of
the equation is.
Speaker 1: That is something that I've noticed that throughout human history
that when a great negative comes up, a great positive always.
Speaker 2: Always How can you have a villain without a hero?
Can't have a hero of nine eleven without a villain.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can't have a villain in World War two without.
Speaker 2: And the people we thought were heroes, the you know
the guy that rode the bicycle, Lance Armstrong, he's a villain.
And Bill coss Owain I learned a long time ago
when I went through that dictionary. I have every trait.
I'm both hero and villain. I'm not a nice person,
I'm not a mean person. I'm an individual with a
set of values. And you support my values. I can
mean nice as a pussy cat, just a gentle soul.
You challenge my values. I mean as a tiger I
have both sides. I'm both kind and cruel and nice
and mean and pleasant, unpleasant and generous and stingy and
thoughtless and thoughtful. I have all the above. And any
part that you can't own in your life and embrace
in your life is a disown part. And that just
on part. You're going to keep attracting people in your
life to help you see it.
Speaker 1: So when do you mean by what is the science
behind attracting the people and attracting the situations to teach you.
Speaker 2: These Whatever you run away, Just like Carl Jung says,
whatever you run away from, you keep running into. Because
if you're running away from something and trying to get
to the opposite pole, that poll comes with a magnet.
It's got the other side, so it smacks you with
unexpected So if you think you got this relationship that's
going to be all pleasure, no pain, or fifty one
percent pleasure with that pain, wait just a matter of
time before you start to realize that that's not what
I expected, because you had an unrealistic expectation that people
can be one sided. Not going to happen.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.
And now back to the show. So that is why
a relationship that lasts twenty years is because they understand
that there is both, they both, there's no delusion.
Speaker 2: The longer with somebody, the more you can say both
the things you like and dislike and rattle them off equally.
Oh well, if you first meet somebody, you can laddle
the pauses. You're short on the negatives because you're ignorant.
That's a sign of ignorance.
Speaker 1: That's why that thing you said that, like, do you
ever think of divorce? No, murder, murder exactly. That's a murder,
murder all the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, murder.
Speaker 1: And I think anyone who's married it's such a perfect like,
I never thought of divorce.
Speaker 2: Well, look at love making. You know what love making
is it tugs and slugs. Come close to me, honey,
get away, come close, get away.
Speaker 1: I love man.
Speaker 2: That's love making, right, attraction and repulsion.
Speaker 1: So that is the law of our existence here.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know. And at the acquint to Paul
Durak and his principles of quantum mechanics in nineteen forty seven,
you said that there was every particle had its handed
particle and so and in the purpose of marriage. I
think it's foolish to think it's purposes happiness. The purpose
of marriage is to find some of you can delegate
low party stuff too that you don't want to do
that they love doing, and get cheap labor value out
of the spouse. I'm joking.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's a it's a joke everyone, but there's enough
laughter there.
Speaker 2: That's my spouse. You know. The purpose of that is
to have somebody to talk about things that help you
go to sleep at night.
Speaker 1: I find it that having a spouse, having a partner
in life is about balance. They if they are, if
you're both the exact I've told my.
Speaker 2: Wife it's not necessary then yeah.
Speaker 1: When I told I tell my wife that all the time,
and she's like, if I'm up in the air, I'm
the balloons. She's the rock on the floor holding the balloon. Now,
without the balloon moving, the rock goes nowhere. But if
the rock wasn't there, the balloon would just fly off.
Speaker 2: That's it. That's description.
Speaker 1: That is the balance that a good relationship ads.
Speaker 2: That's what they call psychology means psycho logo. It was
like wayne logic and psycho.
Speaker 1: When White wait, the Great Way feeling back when Wayne
Dyer was I had the pleasure of meeting him and
and and seeing him speak on multiple occasions. He said
this one thing. He's like, anytime I hear a new
a person come up, Oh I have this girlfriend or
this boyfriend, he finishes my sentences. Oh, I'd love them.
They do. They watch the same movies.
Speaker 2: I watch a murder in the making.
Speaker 1: It's like they're done in a few weeks. They're just
they're not going to make it.
Speaker 2: They're highly infatuated and they're blind to the downsides. They're
going to be smacked and they're going to be resentful
when it happens.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, exactly. One thing I wanted to ask you.
You know, we're we're surrounded here by some of these
masters that on the wall here, great walking masters, descended masters,
and Buddha obviously popularized the idea at least that I
understand of enlightenment, and people in the spiritual space who
are in the spiritual quest are always looking for this
destination called enlightenment. What is your understanding or misunderstanding that
people have about this idea of enlightenment.
Speaker 2: Well, I've had the opportunity to meet a lot of
people who think they're enlightened.
Speaker 1: You've been to Hollywoo too.
Speaker 2: But there's how I think about it. I'm going to
do a little development of this. We live on a planet.
It's about twenty four thousand miles around, about eight thousand
miles in you know diamond. It spins around in twenty
four hours eighty six sconds. It's ninety three million miles
or one astronomical unit away from the Sun. And there's
a little guru that's sitting in a lotus position, going
around in the hamster wheel on the planet. I am enlightened.
I am enlightened. I am enlightened. From the Sun, we
can barely see the Earth. We need a telescope. It's
non discernible. It's a little dot that can even be
seen ninety three million miles away. It's too small without
a telescope.
Speaker 1: If you were on the Sun.
Speaker 2: If you're on the Sun, the Sun is twenty six
to twenty seven thousand light years away. That's one hundred
and eighty six thousand miles a second times one and
eighty six thousand, four and seconds in a day.
Speaker 1: How far is the Sun from us?
Speaker 2: The Sun is ninety three million miles miles. But from
the sin of the Milky Way. Oh, it's twenty six
thousand lights. Yes, yes, now light year. The light travels
one hundred and eighty six thousand miles a second. There's
eighty six thousand, four and seconds in a day. There's
three under and sixty five days in a year. In
a quarter. Multiple those numbers, then multiply that times twenty
six thousand, twenty seven thousand. That's the distance to the
Milky Way that light has to travel for an observer
to see our solar system, which is indiscernible because of
the dust, and our planet's non even existent. The Milky
Way is part of a local group that's part of
a Virgo cluster. The Virgo cluster is part of a
super lannaia kea supercluster, and that's part of a even
a bigger system in a great wall and a great
attractor and repeller, and that's got voids and clusters all
around it to infinity. There's trillions of those. And that's
just the observable universe. So now this little guy sitting
on this little speck on this planet that thinks they know,
they're all enlightened. As Socrates said, whatever you know is
an infintesimal compared to what you don't know. So to say,
as Einstein said, to live with holy curiosity and to
continue expanding your awareness would be wisdom. To think that
you're all enlightened would be folly. So we have what
is called relative awareness, relative enlightenment. You only know what
you know, and even that's sometimes questionable. So when I
meet somebody that thinks are all enlightened, I question that
because they don't know whether you're going to pass gas
in the next two minutes.
Speaker 1: Right, You're not all you know?
Speaker 2: You know, I have relative awareness in the areas of
expertise that I've pursued, which is an infinitesimal, an insignificant
nothingness that will turn into dust and be poofed. So
I'd rather live with holy curiosity and continue to expand
my awareness and honor that. And relative to maybe somebody
who thinks I know something in an area of my expertise,
I can be help them see things they don't see,
but they can certainly help me see things I don't see. Now,
what's interesting is I met a gentleman who is a
professor in Nashville, Tennessee. He had a PhD. Very intelligent guy.
I asked him what his PhD was. He said it
was on the life of William James, on a portion
of his life, A portion of his life, a tiny
aspect of William James, father of modern Psychology's life, PhD
in it. Now, he's got a very advanced doctor at
PhD and very well respected for this piece he did.
But he just studied a tiny little piece of one
man's life. So is the person that's raising a child
for thirty or forty years any less knowledgeable about that
particular thing? You know, They know that child, don't they,
of course, And so they're enlightened in the area of
their expertise, but they may not have the same area
of somebody else. So to label somebody just because they
study spiritual scrolls or texts doesn't mean that they're more
spiritually aware. It just means they've studied a tradition and
they're scholarly about that tradition. And that's just one of
many traditions on this tiny speck and this distant planet.
So I'm a firm believer that it's wise to study
all of them right, learn and find as much as
you can and be inclusive and not be trapped by
any of them, because they can trap you into thinking
that's spiritual. And if you're not that, well, then you
you know it's an in group outgroup bias. I'm spiritual,
you're not. Well, Oh no, I'm spiritual, you're not. That's
not It's about the soul, the state of unconditioned love,
which is more inclusive than the exclusions and the limitations
of a time and space. You know, our brain likes
to isolate. Well, at six hundred BC, there was an
enlightened person or our aster is about the same time, right,
and confucious about the same time. And these were relatively
aware individuals with some differences and some similarities and teachings.
Extract what is wisdom out of that, honored that they've
given you a piece of the jigsaw puzzle, and continue
to grow, continue to awaken to what you don't know tomorrow.
Speaker 1: I find it that the masters who are actually that
I like to study and follow and explore are the
ones who say I'm here just to show that you
have the power within you. And those anytime anyone goes
I'm the guy, follow me, I run.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they're they're now as long as you're green,
you're growing in his sues and you're ripe and your
rot so well, that's great. So if you're if you're
a humble I always say when you when you have
a humbleness to the what you don't know, and you
just keep learning, like Socrates. Socrates consider himself the most
unwise person of all, and everybody else thought he was
the wisest because he was aware of what Lily knew
compared to the infinitude of what was there.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show, right right.
Speaker 2: That's because because I mean, I study. I've been studying
pretty well every single day for fifty three years, which
I learned how to read a book I started, and
but there's no end to that. I get to learn tomorrow.
Because the amount of knowledge is growing faster than anyone
human being can do. Even AI won't be able to
keep up with it, because it's just still able to
keep up with all the new variations and insights, because
advantage points is constantly changing and the insights are compounding fascinating.
Speaker 1: If you could give people one spiritual principle that would
immediately change how they experienced life, What would it be
and why do we resist it?
Speaker 2: No matter what you've done or not done, you're still
worthy of love. What because whatever you've done is participating
in a pair of opposites that somebody is doing the
opposite to make sure it's balanced in nature. Wow. So
if somebody is critical of you, look for the praiser.
And if you're addicted to praise, which keeps you juvenile, independent,
honor the criticizer. They're going to make you grow. They're
going to make you look at what you don't love
about yourself. So, no matter what you've done or not done,
you're worthy of love, and so are the people around you.
And that you know some people what about this per
What about that person? What about this?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: The only person you're afraid to love is the part
the person that represents the parts you haven't integrated and
loved in yourself.
Speaker 1: Are we afraid of what we're not capable of doing
or are we truly afraid of what we are truly
capable of?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're probably frightened of what our power is and
we're also frightened of not living our power.
Speaker 1: At the same time.
Speaker 2: Same time, that's the difference between actuality and potential that
Aristotle addressed when he was writing.
Speaker 1: It's amazing, John, Where can people find out more about
you and the amazing work you're doing.
Speaker 2: Well, they just go to doctor DeMartini dot com and
they can go do my value determination process it's free.
Or they can go and check out what we're doing
breakthrough experience or products or whatever. Or they can just
go and read. There's enough information on there that's going
to keep them busy enough for more than one life.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, John, it is I could. I would love
to continue. You're talking to you for hours and hours
and hours, so next time you're around, my friend, please
stop by. This has been such a pleasure and honor
speaking to you, and I truly hope that this conversation
breaks some paradigms for people with their minds out there.
So I appreciate you and everything you're doing to awaken
the planet, my friend.
Speaker 2: Thank you for doing exactly the same thing.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you for spending this sacred time with
us today. If you feel called to explore this conversation further,
you'll find the show notes for this episode at next
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