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Speaker 1: A new force in Washington for UAP transparency. May one,

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twenty twenty five, Washington, DC, the UAP Disclosure Fund holds

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a experts panel on Capitol Hill attended by members of Congress.

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UAP subject matter experts made their case for UAP transparency.

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Experts such as former Pentagon official lou Elizondo, retired Navy

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Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudette, Harvard professor and founder of the

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Galileo Project, doctor Avi Lobe, physicist, doctor Eric Davis, former

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NASA Associate Administrator, Mike Gold, former senior staff member for

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the Senate Armed Services and Senate Intelligence Committee, Kirk McConnell,

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former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence, Christopher Mellon,

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doctor Anna Brady Estevez. So, who is doctor Anna Brady Estevez.

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Let's find out. Hey everyone, I'm Matt Ford and welcome

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to the Good Trouble Show. For almost a year, I

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served as director of Strategy for the UAP Disclosure Fund.

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Last month, I flew to Washington with the UAPDF team

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for the UAP Experts Panel, held in coordination with the

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House Oversight Committee. One of the absolute highlights of the

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trip was meeting doctor Anna Brady Stevez.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: While she was a new face to me for UAP Transparency,

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it turns out she has actually been a force behind

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the scenes for quite some time. Anna joins us today

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for part one of an exclusive two part interview. But

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first please hit the subscribe and thumbs up buttons on YouTube,

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leave a comment and let us know what you think

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about this episode. You can also find us on x

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at Good Trouble Show and everywhere else at The Good

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Trouble Show. You can also find us wherever you enjoy

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your podcasts. Search for The Good Trouble Show with Matt Ford.

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And if you want to chip in to keep the

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lights on, you can become a Patreon member of the

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up and you can support this wonderful show. Super chats

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are also open and a great way to lend your

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financial support. All that allows us to bring you great

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shows like we have today. Okay, our guest today is

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the founding partner of American Deep Tech, a deep technology

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investment firm. She previously co chaired the US National Research

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Agenda in Digital Assets with the White House Office of

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Science and Technology and led interagency efforts on space economy

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and commercialization alongside NASA. That's a mouthful right there. She

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also served as a program director at the National Science Foundation,

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focusing on digital assets, space tech.

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Speaker 2: Energy, and clean tech.

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Speaker 1: She recently joined the Board of Advisors of the UAP

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Disclosure Fund. Here is part one of our conversation with

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doctor Anna Brady Estevez.

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Speaker 2: Anna, how are you.

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Speaker 3: Doing great, Good to see Matt. Thanks so much for

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having me on.

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Speaker 1: So I have the pleasure meeting you in Washington, DC

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as part of the UAP Disclosure Fund Experts Panel. Tell

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us about your professional background for those in the audience

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that are not familiar with you.

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Speaker 3: So, my background has been more on the investment and

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the strategy side, So you know, spent a couple decades

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now in strategy and investments, both in the private sector.

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So worked on multi billion dollar investments and energy. Made

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a recommendation that years later was about a five billion

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dollar IPO was involved in what became a transformation that

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went out at over a trillion dollars in the public market.

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So it kind of wasn't an early stage part of

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that corporate transformation. So worked with corporations and investments, and

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then had the pleasure of coming into the National Science Foundation,

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where I was able to lead a number of the

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country's most active portfolios in energy, sustainability and space technology.

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So really it was just tremendously privileged to work with

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a wide range of high performing, high growth entrepreneurs you

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know in those portfolios, and just exceptional, extraordinary people. So

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I'd say, you know somebody who's you know, been involved

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in billions of dollars in the private sector of investments

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and investment strategy and a quarter billion while at NSF.

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Most of my portfolio and certainly where the returns have

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been so far have not been on the UAP side.

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But the UAP portion of the portfolio is something you know,

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that a number of us see as important, you know,

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in terms of an area where meaningful work is being done.

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So certainly a positive disruptor that I've had the privilege

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of being supportive of while in the government.

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Speaker 1: Now we did again just kind of filling in maybe

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some of the blanks in terms of your your career.

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We did a bit of research on you here and

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uh so we found out you are a Kaufman Fellow

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and Kaufman has a list that is comparable to Forbes

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Midas List, which is called the Kaufman Funds of Returners Index.

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And in spite of the index not giving any credit

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for UH, for early investors like you versus someone who

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came in later, out of over nine hundred fellows nine

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hundred fellows globally, you are in the top five percent

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of fund returners. Per that list, you are the number

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five woman in the United States, number number seven, number

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seven woman fund returner globally. I mean, wow, you know

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what what contributes to that? That's that's uh, that sounds

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like really some pretty significant accomplishments here.

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Speaker 3: It's certainly been humbling. I never thought that I would

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be that high up on the list, but I think

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it's really been a mark of working with great people

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but really focusing on strategy and listening to the entrepreneurs. So,

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I mean, it's definitely the emphasis has been trying to

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figure out what would be highly impactful, you know, and

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racing towards those opportunities and helping the entrepreneurs shape it. So,

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you know, while we're doing this with you ap right now,

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have done you know, quite a bit of that UH

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and energy and manufacturing, you know, advanced materials and space tech.

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So I think it's really a function of listening and

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helping entrepreneurs build, and it's just it's just amazing what's possible,

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and you know, going after these things that you know,

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on individual company basis, it's not guaranteed. But what we've

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seen is that as a portfolio, you know, when you

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support great people and when you move towards those things

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that would be most impactful, we see that growth. So

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on the NSF side, about a quarter billion out you

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know what, And this is I guess I'll also include

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one of the IPOs from my corporate career, but around

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a quarter billion out, you know, even an early stage

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portfolio eight point five billion in fall on financing and

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just the publicly visible pitch book portion, so no, no

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multiples on revenues, no non disclosed acquisitions factored in a

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well over seventeen point five billion portfolio. So there are

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places around the country who are very, very good at

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supporting early stage, high growth innovation. NSF is one of them,

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and I certainly went in, you know, with the intent

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to figure out how to be most supportive of high

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growth companies with societal impact.

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Speaker 1: And we also dug some other stuff too, So so

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for instance, you were perhaps the first and you know,

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maybe you, if not one of the first people advocating

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for digital currency and blockchain in the federal government. I mean,

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how did you get involved with that that kind of stuff, which,

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by the way, blockchain is completely over my head, I

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don't understand it.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I think it's one of these areas.

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It was very interesting because sometimes these technologies are really

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convergent and people across industries see the potential. So coming

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from an energy background, I think energy people really understood

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blockchain very early on. So I had the opportunity to

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pitch what might have been the government's first dedicated portfolio

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and blockchain. And then something you know that the federal

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government does is when they're building out strategies, they reach

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out across the agencies and they say, what can you

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tell us about this? You know, and sometimes you know,

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you'll be in the you can be deep in an

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agency and you'll send some comments back and then all

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of a sudden, the agency says, wow, a lot of

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the content is coming from this person. So then they

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onboard you to more of these national strategies. So I

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had the opportunity, you know, and I think some of

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the insights are ones that would have been very parent

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to people in the private sector. But I had the

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opportunity to frame out, you know, probably twenty seventeen, twenty eight,

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maybe it was earlier, but early on in the Trump administration,

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you know, why does blockchain matter? What are the ten reasons?

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And so that went up through OSTP and they said

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that they conveyed that, you know, in its entirety to NSC.

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So I think part of what I've done is not

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needing to be one of these visionaries. I mean, there's

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so many people that are twenty years out. I typically

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try to understand what's going on right as we get

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to an inflection point, and you know, so people put

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out the case, you know, well before and then right

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before the market gets really active, try to boil it

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down to why does this matter and what can we

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do with it? So blockchain is certainly one of those

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cases that there's so much that you can do with

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these high performing digitally native tools. So I was I

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was able, I was later asked so. So worked on

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it both in the first Trump administration where we had

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many of our high growth companies during Trump won and

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then worked throughout the Biden administration and was asked to

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co chair alongside the White House the Digital Asset are

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and D Agenda, including assessments for what we could do

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with digital currencies and digital assets.

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Speaker 1: And tell us a bit about the National Science Foundation portfolio,

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which was one of the highest growth national one of

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the highest growth nationally in terms of portfolios with from

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what I read, well over like ten times growth. What

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were the keys to making that so successful?

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Speaker 3: So, I mean, one of the things that's amazing about

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the National Science Foundation is just how innovation forward it is,

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so I mean, really supportive of all areas of science

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and innovation. And you know, I remember when I went

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into the NSF, there were so many things that we

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didn't understand, you know, back in twenty seventeen, about how

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to support innovation, you know, and then really coming in

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every day to figure out what are we doing? How

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can we do this better? I spent about nine years

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kind of trying to figure out how do you really

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really support and accelerate innovation? And so what I would

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say is interesting is right now, you know, to time

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when so much can be accomplished nationally and you know,

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this administration, I think really does want to lead an

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innovation and wants to lead in global markets. I stepped

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into the private sector because I think this is amazing

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time for the private sector. That said, I don't see

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the government as competitive, you know, so if you know,

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our fund is able to raise capital, you know, to

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bring to these markets and to create these high growth portfolios.

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But some of these agencies, like NSF, you know, are

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so complimentary the private sector and have been so high performing.

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So before the NSF really even knew what it was doing,

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because some of that analysis is much more recent, you know,

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I've spent years doing it with just three I asked

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a colleague recently and he pulled the public data for me.

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But forty eight years of SBI R SO and D

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do they call it sibber, But it's an SBI R

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an sttr SO small business and Innovative research and the

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translational research. These programs that you know, if you're if

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you're not from a wealthy family, you know, you're maybe

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not going to be asking friends and family, you know,

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to get money for your startup. So the federal government

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has provided these small grants of you know, two hundred

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two seventy five k you know, a million you know

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at the at the phase two and so this capital

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that's gone out to so many companies over forty eight years.

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The National Science Foundation had initiated that program, and it's

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now forty eight years and over time recent years it's

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been two fifty million out. It was obviously much smaller

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in the early days my understand So if it was

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today's dollars all the way through, that would be twelve billion.

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It wasn't twelve billion because it was so much smaller

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early on. So three point six billion dollars out to

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small businesses. Wow, and those small businesses, those entrepreneurs went

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on to catalyze. You know, I'm going to give a

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big range here because some of these large companies, the

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market valuations have flux sctuated, you know, with what's going

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in the market. It's with tariffs. You haves a qual

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common you can say that's a big range, you know,

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Andqualcomm is in that one hundred two hundred billion range

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and three seventy billion you know, on the top thousand

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at the low mark. And when I ran those numbers

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about a month ago, it looked like when I made

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some adjustments that it was five hundred billion, so less

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than four billion out five hundred billion of market capitalized.

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And so when I saw that, I thought, WHOA, we

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could do so much more. You know, Why isn't this

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a multi trillion dollar program? Why are we only putting

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you know, four out you know over this many years

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when we're seeing this extraordinary value, we're seeing winning in

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these markets. So I see the potential, you know, both

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in high high performing government agents and certainly in the

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private sector make the right investments and catalyze these multi

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hundred billion you know, and even trillion dollars of solutions,

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you know, because much of this has been health benefits,

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higher performing you know, chips, you know, semiconductors, energy solutions, sustainability, autonomy, robotics.

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I mean, NSF was active in the early days and

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the internet. You know, that's kind of outside of the

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SBI our program. But if you think about all these

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things that it's possible to create, NSF has really been

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at the table writing those aggressive first checks and the

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results are just astounding. So when you're putting out less

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than four, you know, and due respect to the private sector,

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you know, tremendous fall on investment that has come in

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to catalyze those total market caps. But these are just

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this has got to be amongst the highest performing investments

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that we have nationally. So I'd say time to do more,

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not less. We're out there to do this in the

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private sector right now with our firm, American Deep Tech.

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We hope more qualified deep technology investment firms and venture

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firms build on you know what some good firms have

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done and do more, but there's a shortfall of capital.

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I can say from that vantage point that there was

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so much innovation that was being underfunded and not funded.

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So tremendous things accomplish, but very you know, it's like

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a low tide mark compared to where the country could be.

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Speaker 2: Of course, So so what was your PhD?

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Speaker 1: And I'm curious about your educational background, you know, what

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what was it in? What did you learn and how

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how did that set you up for your success today?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I guess just so, so I guess

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the first thing that I should say is yes, I

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do hope PhD. And one of the funny things is

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sometimes people will try to call call me doctor, you know,

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And what I realized is, you know, in the private sector,

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you know, most of these high performers, you know, the

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emphasis is not you know, on the PhD. And you know,

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it's interesting some of the highest performing people, I know,

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they actually don't have a PG. Someone will have their

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bachelors and NSF. There was a little bit of a

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tendency towards focusing on you know, professor, this doctor that

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we were doing. We were working with so many amazing people.

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I couldn't keep it straight. You know, who has a PG,

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who doesn't. So I would always say, you know, just

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call me in. We had a joke when somebody would

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get IO was a Yale when we would when somebody

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would get their PhD. And this was before I got mine,

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but you know, our friends would get their PG, and

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I would say, congratulations, you're a doctor. Congratulations, really enjoy,

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We're so happy for you. Right. And when you're on

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a plane and somebody says, is there a doctor, you

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know yes, you know, we know the answers yes, but

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just really the answers no, you know you're congratulations, but

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we're not that type of doctor, so just say no.

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When you're on a plane, you call us by our

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first name. And obviously, these high performing entrepreneurs they go

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by first name. But I think what I learned while

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you know, obviously there was the opportunity to to work

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with amazing people, you know, both the Johns Hopkins in

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my undergraduate and then at Yale. But I worked, I

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worked on solving problems. So the first problem, so we're

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a couple problems that I didn't think were easily resolvable.

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So I think the fast pivoting away from something that

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doesn't work. So I was working with DNA aftimers, you know,

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in the wrow Breaker lab. But you know, he was

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one of like the top leaders in biology, and we

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were gonna do it for the one of the early

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first times, this is the early two thousands, for use

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of DNA aftimers in water to detect contaminants. And we said, okay,

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there's so many people they're dealing with arsenic poisoning. Let's

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try to do that. And then we realized, wow, these

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these DNAs, it could be like a glove to a molecule.

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It doesn't always work that way. Different salt solutions, you know,

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they don't behave the way we expect them. And so

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about six months in said, I actually don't think that

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this is necessarily going to work. So I think that

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kind of fast fail was important. And then I moved

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into really the focus on another aspect of global water health,

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which was and it's gotten a bit better, you know,

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but it's still problematic. Which at that time I think

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there was over five million deaths from water borne illness globally,

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and much of that was children and the world's pore

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So you just you know, when you think about these

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are some of the things that we're passionate about, is

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where are these extraordinary gaps where a solution can save

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lives or transform lives. So I spent about four and

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a half years on the PhD and and worked alongside

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some great people. So used carbon nanotubes for water treatment,

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so it was in advanced materials, low cost, low energy,

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removal pathogens from water, and you know, and I was

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a little bit nervous about some of the potential health

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aspects of carbon nanotubes in water. So you know, that

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was both you know, adding to the knowledge, but also

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some concern you know for the underlying materials, which we

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didn't get completely stabilized. But I would say just working

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alongside people to see that, Wow, when you're working with

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the people or the leaders in their field. The biggest

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part is there's lots of things that we don't know

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and we're building knowledge, you know, and it's kind of

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the equations are new, you know, the the boundary conditions

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are beyond nanom materials were earlier, you know, at that stage.

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So we're just all these new things and the answer

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of humility as a scientist, you know, which investors also have,

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which you know, it's like you make money, you lose money,

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and just that we don't know what we don't know.

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So just to see the world experts and just realize

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we're so far from where we're going to be in

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fifty or one hundred years. So let's not get worked up

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by you know, whatever the current understanding is.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: So I'd like to read a bit from your CV

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on LinkedIn just to give some folks an even greater

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idea that clearly you're not an underachiever.

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Speaker 2: I'll say that.

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Speaker 1: So so Anna Brady Estavaz, early stage venture funderbacker of

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high growth startups including assend Elements, imperious fluence.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the list goes literally on and on.

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Speaker 1: In MITI great companies who've been a privileged state to

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work for your senior investment advisor and partner venture the

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Small Business Administration Office of Innovation and Investments, working closely

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with SBA's SBIC program, focused on venture capital and private

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equity funds.

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Speaker 2: The SBA's SPIC program has over.

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Speaker 1: Forty billion in assets under management across investment funds and

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over five billion expected in FY twenty four. You were

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co chair along side White House OSTP of the United

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States National R and D Agenda Development in Digital Assets

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and Technologies related to Central Bank Digital Currencies. You were

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co chair alongside NASA of United States Agency Space Economy

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Working Group. You were co chair alongside NASA ISS and

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NIH of United States Inter Agency Space Commercialization Working Group.

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You were co chair a Space Capital Formation Working Group.

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And then here, you know, here experienced a director who

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led the National Science Foundation Foundations Investment nationwide and energy, power,

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space technology, sustainability, chemical technology, and distributed ledger, digital assets,

375
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blockchain technology for startups and small businesses focused on innovation,

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investing and strategy supporting high growth startups. I mean, that's

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that's just amazing what you've accomplished in your life.

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Speaker 3: Sat in a little bit longer than I initially intended

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in terms of public service. But so it was several

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years beyond where I thought I would have stepped out.

381
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But I think it's just you know, there it was

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having the opportunity to work with so many amazing people.

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And I do think, you know, for those who have

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considered public service, I mean, you know, definitely do refresh

385
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to the private sector, probably you know, faster than eight

386
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and a half years. But you know, there's really so

387
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much that you know, in these nationally central roles that

388
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you know, people can contribute. So it was it was

389
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a privilege to serve, you know, in these roles alongside

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amazing people and really the entire time and support of

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the private sector.

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Speaker 2: When I was in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 1: I had the pleasure of attending a dinner party that

394
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you hosted, and yeah, I had to say, they're probably

395
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about anywhere between sixty and one hundred.

396
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Speaker 2: Maybe you would have a better idea of people that

397
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were at this thing.

398
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Speaker 1: And it was my first time to meet you in person,

399
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and that was a real pleasure meeting you and your

400
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husband and and.

401
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Speaker 2: All of the people that were there.

402
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Speaker 1: And what I found just incredibly refreshing is that these

403
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were all people from all different nodes of government, various

404
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three letter agencies, government scientists. I mean, a really wide

405
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spectrum of incredibly intelligent, highly successful people, and in almost

406
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all of them had from from my conversations with folks,

407
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almost all of them had had firsthand encounters with UAP.

408
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Speaker 3: And I think that leaders in innovation both and there

409
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were plenty of entrepreneurs there as well, but I think

410
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that leaders you know, both in the private sector and

411
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the government. You know, we see I mean that was midweek,

412
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you know, is there wasn't a lot of planning that

413
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went into that gathering. So I think that yes, you know,

414
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in any given zip code, you know, to the extent

415
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that you're connected with innovators, you know, people you know

416
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that have a forward view that yes, like dozens or

417
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one hundred people can come together quite quickly on so

418
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you know, certainly we saw many more people able to

419
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come together online. So uh, you know, you know, really

420
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just back to people. People are interested in solutions, They

421
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want to know what's real. There's no you know, I

422
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think a lot of things we're done away with, you know,

423
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in terms of you know, during COVID, you know, and

424
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you know, people are just really focused on what's real,

425
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what's impactful. You know, there's there's a lot of anticipated

426
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changes with regards to what's going to happen with AI.

427
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So I don't I don't think anybody's kind of I

428
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don't think people with a forward view are resting on

429
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their laurels. You know. There's just there's an openness to seeing,

430
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you know, what's going on, what's possible. Many people actually

431
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have a responsibility, you know, whether whether their portfolios are

432
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:54,480
looking for high performance in some of these fields of technologies.

433
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Be then in the private sector and the government. Uh,

434
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but people are just open and it's backed by you know,

435
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people have seen a wide range of interesting things, and

436
00:25:04,319 --> 00:25:07,839
so for those that are connected and talking, they're sharing information,

437
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you know when they can.

438
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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I can just speak for myself. When

439
00:25:12,839 --> 00:25:15,400
I first got into this, to be honest, I wasn't

440
00:25:15,519 --> 00:25:19,119
very open with people that I know in my day

441
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job about what the show was about, et cetera. And

442
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it was probably about a year into it, I was like,

443
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you know what, I'm having fun.

444
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Speaker 2: I believe in what I'm doing.

445
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Speaker 1: I believe firmly that what I'm doing is in service

446
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to this nation that I love.

447
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Speaker 2: So I began telling people.

448
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Speaker 1: About it and I would easily say at least fifty

449
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percent of the folks that I shared my personal experience with.

450
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Speaker 2: As far as having orbs show up above the home and.

451
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Speaker 1: Having various guests talk about their experience with UAP, well

452
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over fifty percent would say, well, you know, when I

453
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was a kid, this happened, I saw this, or or

454
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you know when I was in college, I saw this

455
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out in the field or whatever. Almost well over fifty

456
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percent had had experience with UAP. And when you would

457
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ask them, well, you know, do you think you could

458
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have misidentified it as a balloon or something like that,

459
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almost all of them they were very sure of what

460
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they saw. But anyway, I just I thought it was

461
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really refreshing at your dinner gathering to see so much openness,

462
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so much certainty.

463
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Speaker 2: You didn't have people saying, oh, well, it could have

464
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been a balloon.

465
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Speaker 1: I saw whatever. Everyone knew what they saw. May not

466
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,400
have known what it was, but they knew it wasn't

467
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anything anything prosaic.

468
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Speaker 2: And I do.

469
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Speaker 1: Agree the number of people in the world that have

470
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had these experiences, it's it's it's got to be huge.

471
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Speaker 2: I mean, it truly truly is. Now I want to

472
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I want to.

473
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Speaker 3: Do for us. I think that was a big unlock

474
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for us because I think if you contrast it fact

475
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,160
to you know, when people were first kind of sharing

476
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this like on a high level, you know, in the

477
00:27:06,319 --> 00:27:08,920
two thousand and nine time frame, it was more you know,

478
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,880
comment this, and you know kind of you know, it

479
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,200
wasn't it wasn't anything like the dialogue we're seeing today.

480
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,640
And so we were in a position where because we

481
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:24,000
had these communities of hundreds of entrepreneurs, which you know,

482
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,000
I think there's a little bit of a misperception. You know,

483
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,240
I've seen it directed at some people online where people

484
00:27:30,279 --> 00:27:33,799
will say, you know, okay, well you know there's a distrust,

485
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,400
right you know, maybe it's that it's threatening, you know,

486
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,200
and they're kind of saying, well, this person's doing this.

487
00:27:39,599 --> 00:27:42,640
You know, people are getting called grifters and things like that,

488
00:27:42,759 --> 00:27:48,119
right and not I don't think anybody's making money really

489
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,839
off the UAP thing, or hardly anybody. And these entrepreneurs,

490
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:58,279
they these researchers usually at the early stage they're starting out,

491
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,000
you know, and they're getting two hundred thousand dollars to

492
00:28:01,039 --> 00:28:04,240
pursue an idea, you know, and build something, and so

493
00:28:04,279 --> 00:28:08,680
they're bringing in very low amounts of capital and they

494
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,079
really only have time to focus on the things that matter.

495
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,039
You know, as somebody who's been an investor who's been

496
00:28:16,079 --> 00:28:19,240
successful in other sectors, I've had to just front personal

497
00:28:19,319 --> 00:28:24,440
bandwidth standpoint, reduce my activity in some very high performing

498
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,039
sectors where I've backed high growth companies. It's just you

499
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,680
bandwidth constraints. So there's really you know, for people to

500
00:28:30,759 --> 00:28:34,880
begetting engaged in this, it's like they're voting with their feet.

501
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,319
These are people that there's no upside for an entrepreneur

502
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:45,079
to build something that is impossible, right, So if people

503
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,359
are trying to build something, it's because they believe in

504
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,160
good faith and they're voting with all their time and

505
00:28:50,279 --> 00:28:53,279
energy and there's something being there. If an investor is

506
00:28:53,319 --> 00:28:56,599
spending their time and energy to understand this space, it's

507
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,319
because they think, you know, there's potential impact and upside.

508
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,839
So so I think that we had we have this

509
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,160
community of people that regardless in the field of technology,

510
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:12,279
there's always questions or for something that hasn't hit the

511
00:29:12,319 --> 00:29:16,039
market yet, there's the this isn't going to happen, why

512
00:29:16,079 --> 00:29:18,440
it won't work. That's quite common. So these are people

513
00:29:18,519 --> 00:29:24,039
who were used to being there and building something before

514
00:29:24,119 --> 00:29:28,200
something's readily acknowledged, so and they're just focused on what matters, right.

515
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,119
So in that conversation, as we started talking to this,

516
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,319
we to this issue and UAPs, you know, we weren't

517
00:29:36,359 --> 00:29:38,680
really sure how the community was going to take it. So,

518
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,319
you know, we we brought in some experts that spoke

519
00:29:41,359 --> 00:29:44,640
to the UAP phenomenon what was being built, and afterwards,

520
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,000
you know, we I kind of did this debrief of

521
00:29:47,079 --> 00:29:50,720
what do you think? And so I remember one scientist said,

522
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,079
who's an entrepreneur, said, well, this is science, you know,

523
00:29:54,079 --> 00:29:57,720
we've got to know, you know, what's what's possible, what's here,

524
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,680
what's not type thing? You know. I thought, okay, that's interesting.

525
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,599
And then the next person said, this is up in

526
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,319
Pilot's faces all day every day, you know. So I

527
00:30:06,799 --> 00:30:11,200
think just the level of openness, you know, And because

528
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,519
we had these communities of people who are so focused

529
00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:17,640
on building things, we were able to very easily have

530
00:30:17,759 --> 00:30:22,160
this dialogue with hundreds of builders and entrepreneurs who are scientists,

531
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,279
who are trained observers. And that's when there was that

532
00:30:26,359 --> 00:30:30,000
inflection point for me where it's not okay you know,

533
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,759
in this environment, somebody who's super in the know is

534
00:30:33,799 --> 00:30:37,400
aware of this too. You know, it's almost like the

535
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,519
emperor has no clothes. You know, this is so far

536
00:30:40,559 --> 00:30:43,480
beyond an open secret. You know, it's just and it's

537
00:30:43,559 --> 00:30:45,519
so interesting to see. I mean, I had an investment

538
00:30:45,599 --> 00:30:49,519
banker who is a great, great person who was saying

539
00:30:49,559 --> 00:30:52,880
to me something like, well, you know, is this something

540
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,240
that you know, you know, is this seen as credible

541
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,279
you know and you know or does this cause problems?

542
00:30:58,319 --> 00:31:01,200
I say, yeah, you know, this is this is happening

543
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,000
and you know certain people are aware of this, and and

544
00:31:04,279 --> 00:31:06,359
then he said, he interrupted me. So he's asking me,

545
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,480
you know, is this something that people think it's less

546
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,160
serious when you talk about this, And he says, I

547
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,240
know this is real. I've seen it, and it's like, okay, yeah, yeah,

548
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,519
one out of two people have seen and experience is

549
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,799
so yes. You know, you're asking if it's credible, but

550
00:31:18,839 --> 00:31:21,680
you've personally seen it. And you know, I think there's

551
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,079
so many great people from so many walks of life

552
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,960
that they've seen something. And so you know, there are

553
00:31:29,079 --> 00:31:31,880
cases like in mind where it wasn't directly applicable to

554
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:33,440
what I was doing at the time, so it's kind

555
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,680
of you walk away interesting open and then there are

556
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,720
people who are building things for which this could be

557
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:45,759
the source of creating higher performing solutions, driving abundance, solving problems,

558
00:31:46,079 --> 00:31:48,759
you know, or competitive advantage. So those so people are

559
00:31:48,799 --> 00:31:51,119
not just taking note, They're trying to figure out what

560
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:51,720
they can build.

561
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 2: And do you think that.

562
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,839
Speaker 1: If could you have had that same conversation with these

563
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:05,680
individuals in twenty seventeen, entrepreneurs, people involved in tech and finance,

564
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:07,680
would you have had what do you have been able

565
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,240
to have had the conversation that you can have now?

566
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,839
Could you have done that in twenty seventeen prior to

567
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,039
the New York Times article?

568
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,799
Speaker 3: You know, you know, it's interesting. I think there's been

569
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,480
so much that's been accomplished, and you know, I think

570
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:25,440
with all the contributions, you know, with the New York

571
00:32:25,519 --> 00:32:29,720
Times article, you know, with with so many of these

572
00:32:29,759 --> 00:32:32,839
people who have come out, you know, leaders from government,

573
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,799
leaders from duty, I think they're you know, there's so

574
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,519
much that's been done to make this conversation a safe

575
00:32:40,759 --> 00:32:45,160
conversation where there's these credentialed, high performing people, you know,

576
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,680
So I think that's made it easier. You know, it's

577
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,119
almost kind of more I see that it's more flipped

578
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:55,640
where at this point, you know, if there are really

579
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,319
smart people who are skeptical you know, and have questions,

580
00:33:00,079 --> 00:33:03,160
and that's very different from being closed minded, you know.

581
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,319
So if somebody comes across as closed minded, you know,

582
00:33:06,359 --> 00:33:09,720
I would say that's really a liability nowadays, because it's

583
00:33:09,759 --> 00:33:15,720
more viewed that that person might be not have connectivity.

584
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,400
You know. So for somebody who is an entrepreneur and investor,

585
00:33:18,799 --> 00:33:22,720
you know, when we're looking at such high levels of

586
00:33:23,519 --> 00:33:27,759
sightings and experience, you know, if somebody is completely closed

587
00:33:27,759 --> 00:33:30,920
to it, it makes us wonder do people not talk

588
00:33:31,039 --> 00:33:33,839
to them? Like are they not trusted for receiving information?

589
00:33:34,559 --> 00:33:37,200
You know? So one thing is, you know, we have

590
00:33:37,359 --> 00:33:43,720
like highly highly respected colleagues who are skeptical but open.

591
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:44,599
Speaker 1: Uh.

592
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 3: But for people who are just certain of something, you know,

593
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,880
you know, it's kind of you know, all those hazards

594
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,799
for investors or entrepreneurs, you know, why are you certain

595
00:33:55,799 --> 00:34:01,119
about something for which there is not certainty necessarily? So yeah,

596
00:34:01,119 --> 00:34:03,000
I think we could have I didn't try to have

597
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,000
the conversation in twenty seventeen. I'm an optimist so I

598
00:34:07,039 --> 00:34:11,079
feel like for many people it's it's not based on

599
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:16,800
post twenty seventeen, but many things have changed, and the

600
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,880
drive for clean energy, you know, the understanding that big

601
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,960
shifts are coming with AI, you know, the dedication of

602
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,039
people to care for you know, a valued and aging

603
00:34:30,119 --> 00:34:33,480
population that's going to have needs. You know that we

604
00:34:33,519 --> 00:34:35,880
want to support, you know, our elders, We want to

605
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,519
support the young, you know, and create that abundance and

606
00:34:38,599 --> 00:34:42,159
quality of life. I mean, the inflationary environment we're in.

607
00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:45,840
I mean, I think there are so many the being

608
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,960
back to a near peer environment that we hadn't been in.

609
00:34:49,039 --> 00:34:52,079
I mean, I think there are so many macro drivers

610
00:34:52,079 --> 00:34:58,199
today that contribute to real reasons that there's perhaps more

611
00:34:58,199 --> 00:34:59,960
of a need for openness than would have been ready

612
00:35:00,039 --> 00:35:03,199
recognized in twenty seventeen. But if people had seen it

613
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,000
before twenty seventeen, maybe they would have been ready to

614
00:35:06,039 --> 00:35:09,880
have the conversation. We were just blind to. We thought

615
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,400
something was rare, that was quite common. So that's why

616
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,159
I like to say, you know, well, my it was

617
00:35:15,199 --> 00:35:17,880
funny because I had people telling me, you know, as

618
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:24,719
I was funding UAP related adjacent inspired technologies visibly, you know,

619
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,719
my role with the NSF something you know, the people appreciated.

620
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:30,119
I mean I would kind of say, you know, should

621
00:35:30,159 --> 00:35:33,639
I share more of this? And some of the entrepreneurs said, well, no, don't,

622
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,960
don't share that you've seen this. We want you to

623
00:35:36,039 --> 00:35:37,960
be an honest broker. You know, I've seen as an

624
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:39,679
honest broker. And I was thinking, how can you be

625
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,719
an honest broker by pretending something you know that's ubiquitous

626
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,119
that you haven't seen it or heard about it. So

627
00:35:46,559 --> 00:35:48,559
it's just kind of interesting that there was such a

628
00:35:48,639 --> 00:35:54,480
disparity between sharing information on what it's like so far

629
00:35:54,559 --> 00:35:57,400
beyond an open secret. I mean, how many things have

630
00:35:57,559 --> 00:36:00,880
fifty percent of people experience? I mean some of Americans

631
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,320
I don't think have been to Europe, you know what

632
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,039
I mean. It's right, so like a shared experience is

633
00:36:05,079 --> 00:36:07,559
so abnormally high, you know. And not to say that

634
00:36:07,599 --> 00:36:12,039
there aren't differences between people have experienced craft versus ORBS

635
00:36:12,159 --> 00:36:14,920
versus some some sort of other things. There's a wide range,

636
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,480
you know, perhaps in that fifty percent of what people

637
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:18,239
have experienced.

638
00:36:19,159 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, we had a doctor Jacques Valet on our show

639
00:36:22,159 --> 00:36:25,320
last and one thing that that he said that really

640
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,519
really caught caught my attention. I forget exactly how he

641
00:36:29,559 --> 00:36:32,400
put it, but I think we were talking about like

642
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,920
hearing something from the government saying it's real or whatnot.

643
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:43,159
That whole conversation, and doctor Valet basically said, look, the

644
00:36:43,159 --> 00:36:47,760
best witnesses are the farmers, the people out in the

645
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:49,320
middle of nowhere that.

646
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,599
Speaker 2: His whole families have seen these things.

647
00:36:53,639 --> 00:36:56,559
Speaker 1: It's it's as Gary Nolan likes to say, you don't

648
00:36:56,559 --> 00:36:59,400
need big daddy government to tell you this stuff is real.

649
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,599
Speaker 2: Well, most of us have seen it and we know

650
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,159
that it's that it's real.

651
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I do appreciate that so many people, you know,

652
00:37:09,039 --> 00:37:12,599
in the US government up to the presidential level, have

653
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:17,320
to a certain extent shared there's something here, right, So

654
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,920
I think there is value to having those anchors. But

655
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,000
you know, and I think the potential you know of

656
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,800
you know, the fortune one, you know, the US federal government.

657
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,400
I think the potential for what can be achieved, you know,

658
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,760
when we bring our resources together is tremendous. But there

659
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,000
is absolutely nothing to wait for. We have what we need,

660
00:37:37,119 --> 00:37:40,440
you know, and the private sector is certainly moving forward

661
00:37:40,519 --> 00:37:43,239
and it's understanding, you know. And and for those that

662
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,400
you know, are looking at what are the potential impacts

663
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:49,440
and opportunities. You know, as you've said, this is this

664
00:37:49,519 --> 00:37:54,360
is something that is common part of our experience. And

665
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,440
the farmers are out there, you know, in many cases

666
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,920
with more access to the open you know, highly visible,

667
00:38:02,039 --> 00:38:05,960
less light polluted skies. There's just people across the country

668
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,039
who you know, they see it and then they decide what,

669
00:38:09,119 --> 00:38:11,519
if anything, you know, they could could do from it,

670
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,480
regardless of the origin. You know, I think there there

671
00:38:14,559 --> 00:38:18,480
is a wide range of opinions you know, or expertise

672
00:38:18,519 --> 00:38:21,519
on what the origins are, you know, whether it's off planet,

673
00:38:21,639 --> 00:38:26,000
whether it's advanced you know, military, ours, theirs, interdimensional.

674
00:38:26,599 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 2: Uh.

675
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:33,079
Speaker 3: That said, uh, there's certainly phenomena that is occurring, and

676
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,840
you know, most people or you know, a significant percentage

677
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,599
of people can speak to it firsthand. There are things

678
00:38:41,639 --> 00:38:43,960
that I've seen firsthand. And then there's you know, I

679
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,519
guess also just to anchor on yes, in an official

680
00:38:47,559 --> 00:38:51,599
government role, you know, there was exceptional levels of openness

681
00:38:51,639 --> 00:38:55,000
to this. You know, there's understanding and knowledge about this.

682
00:38:55,679 --> 00:38:57,719
You know, many of the people you know who you

683
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,559
see you've come out on this. You know, I was

684
00:38:59,559 --> 00:39:02,480
in a position to know they did hold those roles.

685
00:39:02,559 --> 00:39:06,360
You know, they are taken seriously by their government interagency colleagues.

686
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,239
There's many other people say, thank goodness, we can finally

687
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,159
talk about this. So uh, you know, with there there

688
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,960
is that recognition you know by people. You know, again

689
00:39:18,079 --> 00:39:20,760
you don't need to look to the government, but that

690
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,719
understanding is both in the private sector and in the government.

691
00:39:24,519 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: I wonder if, and I totally get your point, all

692
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,559
of us or most of us have had had these exacts.

693
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 3: Which try to be open about that from the government standpoint.

694
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,159
So we had we did have open discussions on that

695
00:39:35,639 --> 00:39:37,840
to try to share that openness like last fall.

696
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,559
Speaker 1: I think though, that where in my view, kind of

697
00:39:41,599 --> 00:39:46,119
the the confusion is from, you know, because you've you know,

698
00:39:46,159 --> 00:39:51,679
you've had the government say things that that are essentially disclosure.

699
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:56,119
You've had ex government officials, uh, you know, like you said,

700
00:39:56,199 --> 00:40:00,280
former uh, former CIA director, former presidents and whatnot all

701
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:05,199
say that there is definitely something going on. And you've

702
00:40:05,199 --> 00:40:07,559
got a lot of people like Marco Rubio and whatnot.

703
00:40:07,559 --> 00:40:09,760
If you if you keep up with what they are

704
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,119
saying and read between the lines, it's clear that they

705
00:40:12,159 --> 00:40:13,840
know that something is going on.

706
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 2: But what I think.

707
00:40:15,599 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 1: Sort of muddies the water, and where I think it

708
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,039
would be beneficial for the government to just unequivocally state

709
00:40:22,119 --> 00:40:25,519
that this is going on is you know, you'll have

710
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,199
like people from the Pentagon throwing cold.

711
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:30,280
Speaker 2: Water on it. For instance, the.

712
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 1: Former deputy director of the Pentagon Zero Office All Domain

713
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:39,559
Anomaly Resolution Office, Tim Phillips was recently on LinkedIn saying, Oh,

714
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:41,880
this is all a bunch of bologney. There are no hidden,

715
00:40:42,159 --> 00:40:45,840
hidden programs. You had doctor Sean Kirkpatrick saying essentially the

716
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,880
same thing. So if I were the public, and I'm

717
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,679
not someone that is really following the people and what

718
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,360
they are the saying, you know, the people what they're saying,

719
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:56,199
the people that are.

720
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,519
Speaker 2: That are really in deep with this, I would.

721
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 1: I would in a way be sort of confused, because

722
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,639
it's like almost I get the impression that the left

723
00:41:04,679 --> 00:41:07,000
hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing in

724
00:41:07,079 --> 00:41:09,079
terms of the government. And I'm curious if you have

725
00:41:09,119 --> 00:41:11,760
any insight on as to why it seems to be

726
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,599
so mixed in terms of the government messaging.

727
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that the you know, the that

728
00:41:20,519 --> 00:41:25,039
it is something that you know, most people probably haven't

729
00:41:25,079 --> 00:41:28,679
been asked to come out officially, you know, in terms

730
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,320
of stating something you know that that is of such

731
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,920
high levels of importance. And I guess what I would

732
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,639
just note is, you know, so I do think that

733
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,920
there are some additional complexities here. You know that a

734
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:46,199
number of people have spoken quite eloquently to some of

735
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,800
that is structural, but you know, on the more normal

736
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,920
side of things. I mean, I'm just going to tell you.

737
00:41:53,119 --> 00:41:56,719
I mean, if you if you knew the percentage of

738
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,400
the government that didn't think blockchain was a thing, right,

739
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:01,800
you know, so if you you know, like you know,

740
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,719
like we you know, the United States disagrees on climate,

741
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,159
you know, we disagree on you know, just about everything.

742
00:42:07,159 --> 00:42:10,000
So let's just agree to disagree. You know. So there

743
00:42:10,039 --> 00:42:15,800
are intelligent people that you know, might so a very

744
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,320
normal thing, you know, outside of the ape space. And

745
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,360
not to say that there aren't additional elements potentially in

746
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,360
play here. But you know, if we talk to somebody

747
00:42:24,519 --> 00:42:29,199
about something that isn't right in their face operating, you know,

748
00:42:29,679 --> 00:42:34,519
they're gonna scientists, top level scientists are going to say, uh,

749
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,679
not a thing half the time, right so, or more

750
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:39,639
than half the time. So if it's if it's innovative.

751
00:42:39,679 --> 00:42:42,360
If you can get one person out of four, one

752
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,960
person out of five, to say, yes, this is possible, Yes,

753
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,920
this is the thing, that's a good day. I mean

754
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,360
I use the analogy of we know how it went

755
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,440
for the Rights brothers. But like when I talk about innovation,

756
00:42:54,599 --> 00:42:57,360
we you see these even today, you know, you see

757
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,559
this this photo of right. You know, it's kind of

758
00:43:00,679 --> 00:43:03,000
he's I think he's on. You know, he's not planking,

759
00:43:03,039 --> 00:43:07,639
but he's on. You know, he's leaning forward, and you know,

760
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:09,679
I think, like, does your family know you're doing this?

761
00:43:09,679 --> 00:43:11,840
This looks like a bad idea, right, we don't know

762
00:43:12,079 --> 00:43:13,880
what right. So if you can imagine being on the

763
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,960
beach in North Carolina and somebody says these right bicycle

764
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,480
Brothers are going to do this thumbs up, thumbs down.

765
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,159
If you get one person who says, well, let's give

766
00:43:22,199 --> 00:43:24,639
it a try, that's a pretty good day on the beach. Yeah,

767
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,840
you know, for innovation. So I think it's possible. So

768
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,320
I will say in all areas we see scientists take

769
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,400
different takes on the data. I mean, you know, as

770
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:41,119
we know scientists that presumably have access to a much

771
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,800
smaller subset of data than some of these entities and

772
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,960
our scientists say, wow, there's something here, you know. So

773
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,079
there's plenty of room to disagree, you know, or agree

774
00:43:51,119 --> 00:43:51,760
to disagree.

775
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:57,760
Speaker 1: But is there a influential scientist or someone in technology

776
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,159
who has had the most really kind of profound impact

777
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:06,920
on your views about UAP and advanced technology? And and

778
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:09,320
what are some of the types of fields of technology

779
00:44:09,559 --> 00:44:13,280
that you are you know, that you're interested in related

780
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:14,599
to the UAP phenomena.

781
00:44:16,559 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 3: Well, we've just been privileged to work with so many

782
00:44:21,079 --> 00:44:25,440
scientists and entrepreneurs, so I would just say that, you know,

783
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:31,119
it's really just learning from every scientist and every entrepreneur.

784
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,119
So I mean there were people that there were people

785
00:44:34,199 --> 00:44:36,920
that I had known for fifteen years, you know, and

786
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,159
we hadn't had the have you had a have you

787
00:44:40,199 --> 00:44:43,679
seen a UAP conversation? You know, So these weren't These

788
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:48,159
weren't people that the basis of the relationship was a

789
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:53,639
UAP situation. But it's more when the conversation evolved that ability,

790
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:57,039
you know, for that person or that investor, that financier

791
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,920
to say yes, I've seen this. I think that cumulation,

792
00:45:01,159 --> 00:45:05,880
accumulation of experience and just that that calm acknowledgment. We

793
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,480
talked to people about this, and h seems like there's

794
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,239
something going on. You know, what is you know, what

795
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,000
do you think? You know what? What can we do

796
00:45:14,079 --> 00:45:17,400
from this? So I would say, there's so many great people.

797
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:24,599
We had a an advanced working group of people from NASA,

798
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:30,880
d O, d DOE, DJHS, you know, so many, so

799
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,159
many of these different agencies that we're really coming together

800
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:39,480
to look at advanced energy and advanced communications. And you know,

801
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,119
we kind of like, as we think about where are

802
00:45:42,159 --> 00:45:45,000
we in the scope of what's possible and what's discussfule,

803
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:48,079
we would get into some really exciting field of technology

804
00:45:48,119 --> 00:45:50,119
and then somebody would say, should we even be talking

805
00:45:50,119 --> 00:45:52,079
about this? You know, we're not we're not in a skiff.

806
00:45:52,079 --> 00:45:55,840
And then we would say, well, actually, it's online, and

807
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:57,800
here's where the Russians are talking about it, here's where

808
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,239
the Chinese are talking about it, and we might wonder

809
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,280
if there's something that we can talk about, but but yes,

810
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:05,559
it's actually it's it's so much as publicly visible now.

811
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,599
So we would have those conversations and then we would say, oh,

812
00:46:08,599 --> 00:46:11,400
they're entrepreneurs that we know for advancing this work. So

813
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,239
we bring the entrepreneurs in the rooms. So I would say,

814
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:18,159
you know, there are a lot of good people. We

815
00:46:18,159 --> 00:46:20,760
we were really more the way we got brought back

816
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:26,239
into this was we were talking about advanced energy, advanced

817
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:31,840
advanced communications. One of those leaders, Larry Forsley, you know,

818
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,800
who's a fusion leader. Uh, he had actually brought in

819
00:46:35,159 --> 00:46:40,039
been brought in to some by some members you know,

820
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,960
might at one of the high level duty or intel committees,

821
00:46:45,039 --> 00:46:47,400
you know, basically being asked about fusion and UAP. So

822
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,119
that's something that he's spoken to readily, you know, as

823
00:46:51,159 --> 00:46:54,760
we talked about different areas of science, you know, and

824
00:46:55,039 --> 00:46:59,079
faster than light communications. You know, that brought us to

825
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,239
you know, I it up. Well, you know some of

826
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:05,000
the information, uh that there is declassified. CIA programs on

827
00:47:05,079 --> 00:47:09,559
remote viewing showed that the information was received, you know,

828
00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:12,880
before the probe you know, reached this planet. So we said,

829
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:16,440
that's been declassified and that's a pretty cheap piece of

830
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,320
paper pen type experiment, you know, see if there's anything there.

831
00:47:20,679 --> 00:47:23,599
So then we brought in hal Putov you know, kind

832
00:47:23,639 --> 00:47:26,360
of you know along that you know, we had this question,

833
00:47:26,599 --> 00:47:28,960
it's been declassified. Let's bring in one of the experts,

834
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:33,360
and when we brought in Hell, he just very calmly said,

835
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:38,239
you know, would you like my ED presentation, my UAP

836
00:47:38,639 --> 00:47:42,000
presentation or my remote viewing presentation. Then I said, yes,

837
00:47:42,119 --> 00:47:44,159
you know, we'd like we'd like all three of those.

838
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:48,480
And so he came in and he gave a presentation

839
00:47:48,599 --> 00:47:51,800
on his work across decades, you know, on the government's

840
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,199
UAP programs, and obviously you know some of that is classified.

841
00:47:55,199 --> 00:47:58,280
Say's not that everything can be discussed, but he brought

842
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,480
that forward. We thought the content was so interesting and

843
00:48:01,599 --> 00:48:04,599
rather than saying, Okay, you know, here's kind of this

844
00:48:05,079 --> 00:48:07,840
information that we're sitting on and oh, like, aren't we

845
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:09,880
lucky to know this? You know, I went back to

846
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:11,639
him a week later and said, is this something that

847
00:48:11,679 --> 00:48:14,880
we can disseminate more broadly to a large number of entrepreneurs.

848
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:19,599
We put the invitation out to the four hundred startups

849
00:48:19,639 --> 00:48:23,679
I've worked with. You know, over one hundred companies came forward,

850
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,639
and we just saw that outpouring of interest. So we

851
00:48:26,679 --> 00:48:30,360
brought other We brought other folks forward, Charles Chase, who

852
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:34,400
was the head of Lockkeey Martin skunk Works, Ryan Graves,

853
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,320
who was seeing these every day, you know, or almost

854
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:41,559
every day as a pilot. Diana Paselka, who's talking about

855
00:48:41,599 --> 00:48:46,679
the interdimensional I'm sorry, the faith dimensions of this. So

856
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,719
we really you know, I had the opportunity to meet

857
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,679
people like Chris Bledsoe, you know, who has a lot

858
00:48:52,679 --> 00:48:56,320
of experience in these areas. So I do think you know,

859
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:00,159
those people have really you know, just kind of that

860
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:05,239
catalyzing of a higher cadence of information flow. And so

861
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:09,079
many many people, uh, you know, the Julia Moss bridges

862
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:15,039
this area, Gamsane fink Housen. There's just so many good

863
00:49:15,079 --> 00:49:19,280
people you know, in this space right now. And but

864
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:24,000
but Chris Bloodsoe is definitely one of them that you know,

865
00:49:24,199 --> 00:49:30,159
really kind of challenged my view of some of this. Yeah, others.

866
00:49:30,519 --> 00:49:33,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've spent some time speaking with him, and yeah,

867
00:49:33,599 --> 00:49:36,079
it can be mind bending, it's it's but what a

868
00:49:36,119 --> 00:49:37,840
what a lovely, lovely.

869
00:49:37,559 --> 00:49:38,599
Speaker 2: Human human being.

870
00:49:38,679 --> 00:49:42,599
Speaker 1: So, and I'm curious, You've had this great career that

871
00:49:43,039 --> 00:49:48,239
has spanned you know, both government and private sector innovation,

872
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,760
your work at the National Science Foundation and deep tech.

873
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:57,280
How did that shape your current perspective on UAP technology.

874
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 3: Well, so, I think that you know, what's been amazing.

875
00:50:01,119 --> 00:50:05,480
What the National Science Foundation is the call to serve

876
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:08,800
you know, the country. So I'm trying to remember the

877
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:14,039
mission state, but it's to serve the nation's economic, good, health,

878
00:50:14,199 --> 00:50:18,960
and defense. So really that the NSF has funded you know,

879
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:23,960
a considerable portion of the United States fundamental and early

880
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:28,280
stage research over time. So that that openness to all

881
00:50:28,599 --> 00:50:34,840
fields of disruptive technology, and that respect for the researcher,

882
00:50:35,039 --> 00:50:37,880
for the entrepreneur, that's something that's also big has been

883
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:41,760
bigging the Kaufman Fellow's environment is at respect for the entrepreneurs.

884
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:47,159
So when entrepreneurs bring forth ideas and potential, just you know,

885
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,519
listening to them in earnest and really trying to figure

886
00:50:50,519 --> 00:50:54,159
out how does this drive towards societal impact. Something that

887
00:50:54,199 --> 00:50:57,039
was interesting to me and NSF is sometimes we saw,

888
00:50:57,199 --> 00:50:58,880
you know, this is something that's come out as a

889
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,800
criticism you know, in you know, in the UAP community.

890
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:04,760
So I think it's good to tackle it head on

891
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,760
it and people are going to disagree, but it feels

892
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:16,360
like people want somebody to come out and just deal,

893
00:51:16,599 --> 00:51:20,320
you know, sometimes deal with all aspects of the UAP issue.

894
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,760
And so so I would say that we came back

895
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:28,159
into this through what are the technologies that the United

896
00:51:28,199 --> 00:51:31,559
States is building, you know, and what might be competitive advantages.

897
00:51:31,599 --> 00:51:34,400
So it's not to say that that's the best lens,

898
00:51:34,519 --> 00:51:38,000
but that we did this through our work, like, through

899
00:51:38,039 --> 00:51:40,239
our existing authorities and what we were being asked to do

900
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,320
in our day to day job. Let's try to help,

901
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:48,440
you know, in terms of medical benefits, higher performing energy,

902
00:51:48,679 --> 00:51:51,199
you know, and propulsion. So that's kind of where we

903
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:56,320
came from. There is sometimes the question of profit versus

904
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:59,760
societal impact. And what was very interesting to me about

905
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:04,400
the end portfolio is that support. So my own portfolio,

906
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,679
you know, I've done early stage about seventeen and a

907
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,599
half billion in its early stages, you know, in terms

908
00:52:10,639 --> 00:52:12,880
of what those companies on the low end have grown too,

909
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:16,039
because it's higher than that, you know, my colleagues like

910
00:52:16,079 --> 00:52:19,360
in total, it's been about seventy billion probably over the

911
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:24,840
last ten years. That program has gone from over forty years,

912
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:29,599
So the NSF SBIR has gone from I think it's

913
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:34,400
under four billion dollars out to catalyzing, you know, somewhere

914
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:38,800
between because the market market caps shift on these companies

915
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:43,320
with a wide range of economic impacts. Three seventy billion

916
00:52:43,559 --> 00:52:46,719
to five hundred billion dollars on the top thousand companies.

917
00:52:47,199 --> 00:52:56,400
So NSF represents exceptionally high performing economic growth right small

918
00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:01,760
dollars out, you know, tremendous follow on capacity, great people

919
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:05,480
in the private sector to that job growth, that economic growth.

920
00:53:05,679 --> 00:53:08,440
But then these high growth companies are typically it's the

921
00:53:08,519 --> 00:53:12,679
societal benefits. So in my own portfolio, it was never, well,

922
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,920
here's this company that doesn't have a societal benefits. It's

923
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:21,039
things like proteins. You know, it's it's higher performing and cleaner,

924
00:53:21,079 --> 00:53:25,440
more efficient energy. You know, it's it's therapeutics, it's it's

925
00:53:25,559 --> 00:53:32,920
better energy, better cybersecurity. So this consistency between bringing societally

926
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:37,239
impactful beneficial solutions, you know, if you help people, that's

927
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,360
also something that corresponds with financial value. So I think

928
00:53:40,599 --> 00:53:44,239
NSF has done a great job of that and they're

929
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:48,599
always looking to support the next thing. So at NSF,

930
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:52,360
when there's an area of higher performing technology, we would

931
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,519
go to support the entrepreneur and we would take these

932
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,639
high impact you know, maybe it's a ten percent chance

933
00:53:59,639 --> 00:54:01,480
of working out, we do more than ten of them.

934
00:54:02,159 --> 00:54:04,440
And but if but if it works, you know, it

935
00:54:04,639 --> 00:54:08,840
it changes the art of the possible. So so that's

936
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:12,920
what NSF has really been amazing, is taking those chances

937
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:18,400
alongside the researchers and entrepreneurs. We also recognized that the

938
00:54:18,559 --> 00:54:23,239
entrepreneurs and the researchers, they've experienced UAPs. So so it

939
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,800
was clear to us that there's no point of credibility

940
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,440
to telling people who have seen something, oh no, no, you

941
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:33,159
haven't seen something. I mean that that doesn't work with scientists.

942
00:54:33,159 --> 00:54:36,440
So in terms of being an agency that would be open,

943
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:41,039
you know, and and shit and have these forums alongside

944
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:44,800
tremendous leaders, you know, and it's like Rema Trocy, Donna,

945
00:54:45,079 --> 00:54:48,719
you know, Curtis, you know, Kevin, like so many folks,

946
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,679
David lenn you know, across the interagency. Some of them open,

947
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:56,880
some of them skeptical but open, but just tremendous people

948
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:01,719
that they they were just able to go into it.

949
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:05,760
So I think that that that openness is what's so important.

950
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:11,400
And NSF, it has, you know, has offered to lead

951
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:15,000
a UAP program to the extent that there's budget there,

952
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,960
NSF would be ready to lead, just as NSF is

953
00:55:19,079 --> 00:55:23,480
always ready to lead in all areas of potentially impactful

954
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:28,480
innovation and they are a high performing entity that is

955
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,280
there for the impact and is there for the entrepreneurs

956
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:33,960
and the researchers regardless of the field of technology, and

957
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:34,840
then includes UAP.

958
00:55:35,639 --> 00:55:38,039
Speaker 1: So let's say within a year, you would not be

959
00:55:38,119 --> 00:55:41,960
surprised if the NSF stood up a group like that.

960
00:55:43,639 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 3: We have already visibly funded UAP technologies and that's something

961
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:54,320
that's been acknowledged. You know, We've we've hosted that publicly.

962
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,920
The entrepreneurs have explained that they've done that, you know,

963
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,880
and this is some thing that you know, when I

964
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:05,280
when I brought some of the top people in the

965
00:56:05,639 --> 00:56:10,440
NSF has been briefed by highly regarded UAP experts and

966
00:56:11,199 --> 00:56:15,679
the level of scientific sophistication within the NSF and openness

967
00:56:15,679 --> 00:56:19,519
to entrepreneurs. I mean, one of one of the entrepreneurs was,

968
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:23,599
you know, you know, kind of laying the groundwork and

969
00:56:23,639 --> 00:56:26,639
this and that, and uh, the NSF leader, you know,

970
00:56:26,719 --> 00:56:31,679
who's just tremendous and very innovation forward, said, uh, you know, basically,

971
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:34,880
we watch the news, so we understand there are skeptics,

972
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:39,039
right you know, Uh, we're we're not skeptics here, so

973
00:56:39,159 --> 00:56:41,559
you don't need to talk to us like we're skeptics.

974
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,119
So I mean, that's not to say that there can't

975
00:56:44,159 --> 00:56:47,880
be a range of scientific opinions within the NMSF. And

976
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:51,079
you know, certainly, I'm sure there are skeptics, just like

977
00:56:51,119 --> 00:56:56,679
there's a range of opinions. But as scientists and innovation

978
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:00,880
forward leaders the National Science Foundation, if I provide a

979
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:04,679
budget and ask to stand up a UAP office we

980
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:07,719
funded previously, we're ready to do it. You know, it's

981
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,960
just just a high performing entity that can do so

982
00:57:12,039 --> 00:57:14,599
much with funds in any field of technology. I mean,

983
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:17,760
it's been remarkable to see that, you know, at a

984
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,360
time when the country can do so much, that there

985
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:23,440
appears to be a pulling back on request.

986
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:24,119
Speaker 2: You know.

987
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:26,519
Speaker 3: You know, I think that it's a great opportunity for

988
00:57:26,599 --> 00:57:29,760
those who want to forward US innovation to just give

989
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:35,599
a high performing entity in innovation funding to continue. You know,

990
00:57:35,679 --> 00:57:40,039
if an entity is provided catalyzed half a trillion dollars

991
00:57:40,079 --> 00:57:43,360
with very little money, my question is, why aren't they

992
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,159
catalyzing trillions? You know, if they had better These are

993
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:50,960
very lowly resourced programs. With more capital, you know, and

994
00:57:51,039 --> 00:57:54,079
more resources, I believe, you know, teams like that could

995
00:57:54,119 --> 00:57:56,519
do so much more. I've moved out into the private

996
00:57:56,559 --> 00:58:00,480
sector because I believe there's more capital and more agility

997
00:58:01,559 --> 00:58:04,199
that can be put to play in these markets. But

998
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:07,679
if the federal government wants to do it, what an

999
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:11,639
amazing scientific and innovation forward team of people that have

1000
00:58:12,039 --> 00:58:14,679
have stood up and said they're ready to move the

1001
00:58:14,679 --> 00:58:15,559
ball downfield.

1002
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 2: Love that now, of course we and that's been in the.

1003
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 3: Media, so it hasn't right, well, it hasn't been confirmed.

1004
00:58:23,559 --> 00:58:26,920
Like I can tell you that I've been in those conversations,

1005
00:58:27,360 --> 00:58:31,079
and I know that we've both publicly released our activity

1006
00:58:31,679 --> 00:58:35,280
while I was at the NSF. You know, there's much

1007
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:38,760
online from conversations we held across the inter agency over

1008
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,079
the last year. But I can say, you know, there

1009
00:58:41,159 --> 00:58:43,920
is that openness at the leadership level, certainly in the

1010
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:47,000
tip director, at the commercialization director at FOLKS.

1011
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,559
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed part one of our interview with doctor

1012
00:58:49,599 --> 00:58:53,400
Anna Brady Estevez, you are going to love part two,

1013
00:58:53,679 --> 00:58:58,480
where Anna discusses her UAP conversation with a former CIA director,

1014
00:58:58,800 --> 00:59:01,679
a CIA director that you have not heard of.

1015
00:59:02,119 --> 00:59:04,719
Speaker 2: Hit the subscribe button and stay tuned.