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Speaker 1: What is up, Fellowsikos, I am Damn Valley coming.

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Speaker 2: At you with the one, the only, no legendary This

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certified Van Fabulo's co host of this very hardwood Os podcast.

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Speaker 1: Mister Grant hughes Change of Pace today just to sort

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of break up or you know, not watch changing around

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me and there's some like seating races, but with all

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the injuries, you figure it'd be a good time for

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a news and rumor catch ups since some things have

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have broken. Not really, I don't have anything to ask

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you aside from how you're doing, Like, how do you

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feel about this exercise?

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Speaker 2: Grant reacting to the to the latest news and NBA rumors?

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Speaker 3: No, yeah, I feel like it's necessary for a couple

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of reasons. One, we haven't like these are kind of

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a lot of them are bigger stories that we haven't

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really talked about that much, so and so we should

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hit them. But also, like I don't know, we talked

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off air, like this point of the season for me

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is just like can we fast forward like just three

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you know what I mean? Like I shouldn't say that

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because they're still we should still be watching. I don't know,

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how do the Blazers, young guys look answer good, like

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how do these other players developing? Or like, is the

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Quinn Grimes thing real? We've kind of hit on all

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that there's stuff to pay attention to, is the point.

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But I'm just ready for, like, let's trim off these

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teams that aren't trying anymore and let's see what the

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playoff matchups are. I'm like, very ready for that to

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be the focus.

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Speaker 1: I don't mean to rehash this topic. I asked more

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because I don't have a solution. But I don't know

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if you saw that. John Hollinger had talked about how

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everyone blames like the lottery system for why basketball, like

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for tanking, why basketball gets so bad this time of year.

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But his point was, if you remove the lottery system

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as it is, these bad teams are still not going

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to have anything to play for. So why would you

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risk injury to some of your better players by having

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them go all out? You would still see them sitting,

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or you still see these teams enter full on developmental

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mode that they know that they have nothing to play for.

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And I thought about that, and I go, I don't

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know how to make march basketball in the NBA more meaningful.

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Speaker 3: That's so interesting. The the thing that I've read that too.

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The thing that has stuck with me and I've been

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thinking about a lot is is and he doesn't offer

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like the mechanics for it. But Hollander's point is like,

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it's not just that. So it's it's good that the

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league has disincentivized losing by flattening the lottery odds and

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all this stuff, and like the Hawks last year getting

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the number one pick from the tenth best odds as

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an example, that's that's like, that's good, but what really

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needs to happen is winning needs to be incentivized. Like

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it's so if you're the Wizards or the Jazz, there

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needs in an ideal world, they're not just like, well,

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looking at all these games as like we get nothing

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if we win, Like there's nothing positive that comes from

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us winning. And the reason I think he didn't offer like,

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so here's what you do is that that's really complicated.

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Like I've been racking my brain trying to think of

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a clean solution for that. That's the that's one of

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the most interesting, like just little buried in their points

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in something I've read in a long time, it's like yeah, no,

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of course, like incentive winning, like how do okay, how

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do we do that? I don't know. I don't know

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how how you make it so that, like the Wizards

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just to continue using that example, are trying to win

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as much as possible in March. I don't know how

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you do that. But if you could do that, you'd

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fix You'd fix the issue, You'd fix the problem.

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Speaker 1: I almost think it would have to be a reverse

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engineer situation where I keep going back to fewer games,

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to where you need to increase the stakes, like at

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the beginning of the year, so that there's less of

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a window in which teams are at because in the

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NFL is a good example, those teams still end up tanking,

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but it's like you're playing out what seventy five percent

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of your season before you get there, rather than sure

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a third of it. But the NBA is never going

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to go to fewer games, and even then if they do,

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you would still need to change the lottery system, and

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then you would have to operate under the assumption that

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something could happen to a team early on and then

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if their season goes off the walls, like it's not

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necessarily going to change how they approach the end of

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the season regardless of what your their draft pick situation.

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So I don't know, because you could shorten the season,

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but like if we get to March, like if the

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season stays the same length but the games are sixty

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six is the number everybody likes to throw out, they're

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still gonna be tanking right in March. So I don't

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I have zero, Well, not one of those I like

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sometimes I like to throw out wrong answers that I

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think might be Like, this is one of those situations

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where I don't know how to incentivize late regular season winning.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know if this is exactly incentivizing winning,

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but it definitely disincentivizes losing so strongly that like winning

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is the obvious goal. Is like relegation accomplishes that. Like

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that's which will never happen unless unless we expand like

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ten more times than there is like a second tier

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NBA where it's like if you fall down there, oh

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my god, your revenue gets cut, you know, by eighty percent,

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and yeah, all this terrible shit happens, like relegation would

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do it. And I think that's the reason it exists

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in sports that have had leagues around for way longer

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than the NBA is like, yeah, it does, it does do.

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It does achieve the goal, but like, one, that's never

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going to happen. And two, like you butt up against

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the idea of like, well, it is actually valuable for

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a bad team to develop young players that might help

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it be good next year. So like if if we

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had massive incentives for winning, are like and it's just

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say Brandon Miller was healthy or something, would Charlotte be

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playing Brandon Miller? Like you know what I mean? Like,

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it's just you do still want a team to develop

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its youth, but like maybe the NBA is not the

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place for that, and then you do need I don't know, again,

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not an easy solution, not even like a remotely clear one.

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Speaker 1: But you feel for the fans more than anything that

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are paying the ticket prices to Well, you mentioned this

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on the other one of our previous podcasts about how

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the lottery system is important because it gives fans of

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these teams, like a Wizards fan something to root for.

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Speaker 2: But it's just like when you're paying, we're not paying.

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Speaker 1: The prices to go to these games that fans are,

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and so you're doing that to see like a tank

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off between whether it's like Toronto and Philly or like

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Toronto and Washington. And but you know Scottie Barnes isn't

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really going to play in the worth quarter, or that

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none of these like their best players are going to

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play period. You feel for that aspect of it, I

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just don't. I don't have a solve. Even you could change.

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Speaker 2: Someone pitched us.

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Speaker 1: It was really funny saying what if you just at

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once every thirty years, every team gets like ten first.

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Speaker 2: Round picks and that's the only like first round.

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Speaker 1: Picks that so you could do whatever extreme idea that

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you want, and it just I don't know that it

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would fully go away. Relegation would be and I've seen

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some people mention it because we're not gonna talk about

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this in depth anymore. We initially were going to before

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the Damian Lillard injury, but like the EuroLeague stuff that

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the NBA is trying to build that I know some

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people like, oh, well, that could set.

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Speaker 2: Up for relegation.

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Speaker 1: I was just like, well, I guess not really, because

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then he's not going to travel to Europe. That rent

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like you're gonna promote a team from Europe and then

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does that team have to then relocate? Does that just

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become do you inherit a different franchise in a different

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market in the United States if you don't want travel,

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I don't see a pathway too again, unless you're gonna

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make it fewer games that there's more travel time. I

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don't know how a EuroLeague would effectively set up relegation

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because okay, for one, like one season or whatever, like

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our two teams that they're just moving to Europe.

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Speaker 2: I just yeah, that would work.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think. Okay, here's the answer. You assemble a

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panel we'll call it like the Spirit of Competitiveness conglomerate

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or something, and they're all unaffiliated with the NBA, and

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they just judge how the worst teams perform down the

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stretch of the season. It's like, how how true to

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the competitive spirit were you? And then they award the

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first pick to the team that is bad but also

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competed the most honorably. I can see no possible issues

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with that solution.

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Speaker 2: I see zero. Are you ready to talk about well this,

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We're gonna start with some depressing news. Are you ready?

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Are you ready to get to it?

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Speaker 3: Can't wait?

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Speaker 2: Oh boy?

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Speaker 1: Damian Lillard he has been diagnosed with deep vein thrombosis,

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which your blood clots in his right calf. He will

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be out indefinitely. The Bucks announced that he is on

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blood thinners. They say they're optimistic he could return this season,

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and GM John Horse said doctors have indicated that his

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situation is very unlikely to occur again, which I think,

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first and foremost, that's if this isn't considered life threatening

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or long term thing, that's immediately awesome. Does it feel

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before we get to the basketball taming Lord of it

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All Wemby a sard, like, doesn't it feel like we're

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dealing with more of these blood caught situations? Or is

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that just me kind of reading like having recency bias

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over the past year?

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Speaker 2: It does?

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Speaker 3: And selfishly, Uh, first of all, we can sort of

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speak sort of flippantly because it seems like the prognosis

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is very good, you know, shouldn't be joking about it anyway,

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But like, I really it's affecting me personally because every

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time my CAF is sore, now I'm like, ah, great,

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it's probably DVT. Like I told you, Like I had

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like a after the Wemby, things like on my shoulders

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a little sore. I think, oh, yeah, here, guess guess

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this is it. I guess this is how it ends.

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Like I just it definitely makes me I'm I guess

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that's just a way to say, I'm a lot more

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conscious of like blood clots now because we've had so

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many instances of this in the NBA. It's it's a

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weird thing. I mean, I wonder too if it's like

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they're just catching this now and this was always an

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issue and it's like, thank God that they're just getting

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better at diagnosing this and then it's treatable and certainly

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if it's in like a non critical area. But yeah,

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scary stuff. Don't don't like it. Don't like that it's

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prevalent now. Seemingly good news per Dame, I guess too,

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Like you certainly don't always see the like very optimistic

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comments from you know, people around the team that like

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he might even be back this season. There's optimism, so

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so that that's the positive. Yeah, terrible news for the Bucks, though,

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who I think, like, really can't afford to lose a

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player like Dame just over the dozen or ten or

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however many games are left.

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Speaker 2: I would.

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Speaker 1: I do feel I'm not a doctor, as anyone who

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listens to this knowes. I just just given how much

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time we've seen players miss whenever blood clots are mentioned,

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I don't. I you can't see him returning this season

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like that would honestly shock me, just because Osar Thompson.

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I know the Pistons weren't good last year, but he

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missed the final nineteen games, missed the.

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Speaker 2: Start of this year.

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Speaker 1: I know everybody every case is going to be different,

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but like something happens to Wemby and he shut down

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for the rest of the year, I just don't. I'd

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be curious what makes the Okay, this is his calf,

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it's not his shoulder. I'd just be curious as to

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what would make this any different. And then it got

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me thinking sort of just like, okay, like we're gonna

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see I mean, the Bucks had been derailed by injuries

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in the postseason ever since they won the title. Middleton

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once right the year after, than Yannis twice, and then

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now this year maybe game. And then I had the thought,

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and we'll talk more about the long.

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Speaker 2: Term trajectory of the Bucks.

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Speaker 1: It's just like, are we ever gonna see Damian Lord

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and Giannis play? Together in the postseason because like last year,

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Yiannis out, so it's it sucks. In the interim they

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have been going I don't know how much you've seen

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of like the Ryan Rollins kid. He's pretty feisty on

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the defensive end, and that seems to be like that's

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what they're gonna lean into in the absence of Dame,

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which is probably smart. This clearly increases the importance of

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Kevin Porter Junior to Milwaukee as well. But like even

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with Damian Lillard, the Bucks have not had a banner

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offense or fourth quarter offense, and this is gonna make it.

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Speaker 2: They just don't have Chris Middleton's gone, and.

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Speaker 1: You can talk about whether he was ever gonna be

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healthy enough to be this player. Johannis can break down defenses,

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but like there's no one else on this team that

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you trust, like as an actual second in command to

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do that, like even close without like Damian Lillarll was

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probably your best option in those situations, and now it's

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who's your second best option?

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Speaker 2: Is it KPJ? Or is it who's my Like is

255
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it Gary Trent Junior? Who is it?

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Speaker 3: Can we this is I mean it's probably even like

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too late to relitigate this. But I was just having

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the thought the other day, like because thinking about Drew

259
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Holliday and like he hasn't shot it well from three

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at all, Like he is now someone that if you're

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putting like poking holes in the Celtics, you say, like,

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I don't know, defenses might just leave Drew and that

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might be a real you know, if you're looking for

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weak spots, that might be one of the only ones

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the Celtics have. But related to the Dame thing, like

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don't you think would would would the Bucks do the

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trade over again? Do you think now having seen like

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here's here's how good we are with Dame, Like there's

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a bunch of variables, the doc rivers of it, all

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the coaching changes, you know, every Chris Middleton not staying healthy.

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I was kind of leaning towards like I think I'd

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just rather have run it back with Drew and and

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tried to build around the edges. But maybe that's reactionary

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now that Dame's hurt and like the results haven't been

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that good.

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Speaker 2: I think it'd be.

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Speaker 1: More we have if if this postseason becomes a wash

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because Damien Lower is not available, that's where you just said.

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I think I would skew towards what you're saying. But

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I also the other thing is too, did they give

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up I mean they did give up pick equity? Like,

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did they give up enough pick equity to just like

283
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could they have re not reinvented, but retooled enough on

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the fly around Drew Middleton and maybe still would have

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been dealing with the Middleton health issues?

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Speaker 2: Of course, it just I was a fan. I don't

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remember where you were.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this was how like two years ago now

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at the point I was pretty in favor of the

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trade at the time, I thought, and then I was,

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you know, we saw last season played out like some

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of the struggles, and then this season it just hasn't

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been picture perfect.

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Speaker 2: So that that'll be.

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Speaker 1: One of the interesting, more interesting trades to relitigate, like

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a couple of years even from now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that that that might give us a

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little uh in road to talking about the honest item

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that we have here, because I've been thinking, too, as

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great as he's been, do you start having thoughts of

301
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like this was complicated by the fact that the Bucks

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did win a title with Giannis as their best player.

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But I'm starting, like he's been phenomenal like this year

304
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and last year, and it's just like it never stops.

305
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But like, have you been having the thought of is

306
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he really that easy to build a good offense around,

307
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Like you know what I mean, Like he it seems like,

308
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,200
you know, Lillard. We like that fit because like, oh,

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Lillard will solve the late game offense stuff that's plagued

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the Bucks. And and and that's an issue because Jiannis

311
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for whatever reason, like hasn't been effective as a late

312
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game postseason guy. Like it's just you know, you just

313
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think about it, zoomed out. You know you're making short

314
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mid rangers now great, still doesn't space, Like I just

315
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,159
doesn't have a ton of off ball value, has never

316
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been like a super high volume roll guy like Jannis

317
00:14:17,799 --> 00:14:20,720
is like low key tricky to build like a normal

318
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offense around. And I feel like some of that is

319
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what we're seeing here, you know lately with the Bucks too.

320
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But anyway, this is an MVP discussion about.

321
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's an interesting point because even Dame

322
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who he I think I pretty much an intuitive fit.

323
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But like, because of what Johannis does best on the

324
00:14:35,639 --> 00:14:38,960
offensive end, it's if you're not going to predominantly use

325
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,639
him as sort of a screener or play finisher away

326
00:14:41,639 --> 00:14:42,720
from the ball, and you want to put the ball

327
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in his hands. The ideal offense around him then is

328
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:47,840
do you have more movement or is it just guys

329
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who work exclusively off the ball? But if you have

330
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got or not, I shouldn't say exclusively. But aside from

331
00:14:53,559 --> 00:14:55,759
let's Steph Curry is the example, like who is the

332
00:14:55,799 --> 00:14:58,320
superstar that works so much away from the ball, But like,

333
00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,000
then you can give them the rock and they can

334
00:15:01,039 --> 00:15:04,320
break down defenses. In those situations, you're always gonna tilt,

335
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,399
I would say heavily towards one like Kevin Durant would

336
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be another great example of someone who would fit. Like Okay,

337
00:15:09,559 --> 00:15:11,480
now we're just talking about two of the ten greatest

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basketball players.

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Speaker 3: Like Halliburton. Halliburton is the guy I would think of

340
00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:22,399
where he's got such off ball value And but you each, yeah, yeah,

341
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of course I thought we said him first.

342
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Speaker 1: Did you want to take us through what Johanna has

343
00:15:28,759 --> 00:15:29,679
told Sam Amick?

344
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Speaker 3: Yeah, so this this just I mean, kind of the

345
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,000
heavy bucks news stretch here, But so Yanna said to

346
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they're talking about the MVP and Yanna said, Listen, the

347
00:15:38,039 --> 00:15:40,440
MVP discussion is great. I've been in the MVP discussion

348
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,720
what like the last seven years, accurate. I think he's

349
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like top five basically the whole decade more or less.

350
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Speaker 2: I still don't think.

351
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Speaker 1: We talk enough that he won DPOI and MVP in

352
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the same right, freaking wild.

353
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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like the Bucks needed another finals trip maybe,

354
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,000
or like another couple and then it's just like Jonathan's

355
00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,080
joanness is just like a antheon Alzheimer. That's not fair

356
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,039
because he's the same player. It's just I don't know,

357
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,799
we need these little benchmarks. Yeah, probably last seven years,

358
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top three, top four, top three, top four. It's good,

359
00:16:08,679 --> 00:16:10,480
it's a great compliment. But the end of the day,

360
00:16:10,519 --> 00:16:12,639
winning's a different feeling. I was able to live at

361
00:16:12,639 --> 00:16:14,840
once with the twenty twenty one title. Then I don't

362
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:16,799
know if people feel like a councer doesn't count while

363
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,639
he's getting ahead of me or whatever it is. But

364
00:16:18,679 --> 00:16:22,639
winning's winning, so so has the NBA Cup's gone too far?

365
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:22,879
Speaker 1: There?

366
00:16:23,759 --> 00:16:24,240
Speaker 2: It was like.

367
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Speaker 3: It was like, wow, this feeling, man, It's like it's

368
00:16:28,039 --> 00:16:32,440
better than intimacy. Laughs. That's the feeling I'm chasing. Yeah,

369
00:16:32,559 --> 00:16:35,919
I mean, he's not wrong, like there is just some

370
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,440
we just illustrated it, like we sort of gloss over.

371
00:16:39,919 --> 00:16:42,320
Maybe if Jokic doesn't emerge as like, oh my god,

372
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,679
this is the greatest thing we've ever seen right after

373
00:16:44,759 --> 00:16:47,840
Giannis is the MVP, maybe maybe then we think of

374
00:16:47,919 --> 00:16:49,639
him differently. I don't know, that's interesting. What do you

375
00:16:49,679 --> 00:16:51,240
think about that? Those comments?

376
00:16:51,639 --> 00:16:54,279
Speaker 1: I think they're candid and they're just, but they're also

377
00:16:54,399 --> 00:16:56,559
they're a little bit cookie cutter, where it's just Okay,

378
00:16:56,679 --> 00:16:59,360
MVPs are cool, but I want to win. Even Joelle

379
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,120
Embiid reached that point of his career after he got

380
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:06,319
his MVP, and I don't it's I actually haven't.

381
00:17:06,519 --> 00:17:10,160
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm so I notice more and more how isolated.

382
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,440
Speaker 1: I am from what I considered the toxic discourse to

383
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,519
where I don't know if this has been spun into

384
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:16,799
like what, well is Johannis want out of Milwaukee?

385
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:18,920
Speaker 2: Like how is this being framed?

386
00:17:19,519 --> 00:17:22,880
Speaker 1: But it does feel like when he reiterates these things,

387
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:24,920
and based off how he's acted when they've made moved

388
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,920
and he assigned extensions, it does seem as if to

389
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,160
me that Johannis is going to look for every single

390
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,839
way to stay in Milwaukee and that they're gonna need

391
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,079
to actively give him.

392
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,480
Speaker 2: Reasons to leave, which I don't know that, Dave.

393
00:17:37,519 --> 00:17:41,680
Speaker 1: You can pan how they've retooled this team following the

394
00:17:41,759 --> 00:17:44,920
Damian Liller trade, but like they haven't necessarily given him

395
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,039
Like maybe now you're reaching more of a high leverage

396
00:17:47,039 --> 00:17:49,640
inflection point, but like they've done a good job.

397
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:50,319
Speaker 2: Of giving him.

398
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,160
Speaker 1: It's not even giving him reasons to stay. It's not

399
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:54,880
giving him reasons to leave.

400
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,920
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, do you do wonder what would have happened

401
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,000
if brook Lopez had just not renegged on the deal

402
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,839
with the Rockets. I mean there's a lot that's like

403
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,039
a big like who knows how things change for multiple

404
00:18:06,039 --> 00:18:10,640
teams in that hypothetical, But like the Bucks have tried,

405
00:18:10,839 --> 00:18:13,359
like the Middleton trade was like not an easy trade

406
00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,839
to make. The Dame trade was not an easy trade

407
00:18:15,839 --> 00:18:18,240
to make. They've they're pulling in guys like Kevin Porter

408
00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,759
Junior like that obviously come with like do you really

409
00:18:20,799 --> 00:18:22,480
want this guy? And they're like, yes, we need them

410
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,400
because we gotta have talent. Like they really are making

411
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,400
an effort. So I think I agree with you until

412
00:18:29,039 --> 00:18:32,160
until it changes, because if you're gonna give me the

413
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,640
option of Giannis is gonna play forever in Milwaukee or

414
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,559
he's gonna change teams, like literally, you know, everyone else

415
00:18:37,599 --> 00:18:40,519
except for a couple guys at his level have I'm

416
00:18:40,519 --> 00:18:42,720
gonna pick He's gonna leave at some point. But yeah,

417
00:18:42,759 --> 00:18:45,400
like the fact that it's extended this long. We're going

418
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,480
on like close to a half decade post championship, which

419
00:18:48,519 --> 00:18:52,319
is usually like that's that's surprising that he's still there

420
00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,440
if you're just like objectively looking at how the Bucks

421
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,440
have done since the title and how well he's continued

422
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,400
to play, like usually that like you know, augurs towards

423
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,720
an exit. But yeah, I do think it's gonna take

424
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,119
I don't know, maybe another like if Dame's not healthy

425
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,319
and they flame out first round again, like maybe we

426
00:19:11,799 --> 00:19:13,720
finally do see some change. I don't know, but all

427
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,079
indications are that, like, yeah, he's gonna need something pretty

428
00:19:16,079 --> 00:19:16,960
significant to leave.

429
00:19:17,559 --> 00:19:21,960
Speaker 1: Well, and their off season situation is fairly interesting. If

430
00:19:22,039 --> 00:19:25,039
they have brook Lopez headed into free agency and if

431
00:19:25,039 --> 00:19:27,519
you don't include him on the books, they are going

432
00:19:27,559 --> 00:19:31,200
to have room beneath the tacks. It's close to fifteen million.

433
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,480
That's like a fourteen player calculation. It's based on Pat Conton,

434
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,440
Bobby Portis, and Kevin Porter Junior exercising player options. I

435
00:19:38,519 --> 00:19:40,599
wonder if Kevin Porter Junior has played well enough that

436
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:42,279
he would decline it, or if he still has so

437
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,480
much baggage from the domestic violence allegations that he'll pick

438
00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:45,759
it up.

439
00:19:45,799 --> 00:19:46,200
Speaker 2: That'll be.

440
00:19:46,519 --> 00:19:48,799
Speaker 1: But like if he opts out of that, that's another

441
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,240
player that you could use. Who how do we replace him?

442
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:53,359
Are we going to be able to keep him? But

443
00:19:53,519 --> 00:19:56,599
that number doesn't include Brook Lopez, who I imagine just

444
00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:01,319
eats up like at least that fifteen million, right, Yeah,

445
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,200
Damian Lillard can sign an extension, but he has a

446
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,559
twenty twenty six twenty seven player option. Giannis his player

447
00:20:07,599 --> 00:20:09,960
options a year further so he has two guaranteed years

448
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,200
of let's call a team control left on his contract,

449
00:20:12,519 --> 00:20:15,160
and the Bucks in terms of assets aside from players,

450
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,680
they can trade their twenty thirty one or twenty thirty

451
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,279
two first as of now, because they did duck the

452
00:20:20,279 --> 00:20:22,920
second apron, which that kind of looms large now that

453
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:24,519
you're when you're looking, we're gonna talk a little bit

454
00:20:24,519 --> 00:20:25,440
about the second apron In.

455
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,000
Speaker 2: A bit, I just don't know what is the.

456
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,720
Speaker 1: I guess because you have expiring contracts and can aggregate

457
00:20:32,759 --> 00:20:35,480
so of Portis and Coneton, let's say, pick up their

458
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,359
player options. It's like twenty plus million dollars in expiring

459
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:39,480
salary that you're can attach to.

460
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:40,920
Speaker 2: A first for who.

461
00:20:41,279 --> 00:20:43,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's just these these distant first are so

462
00:20:43,799 --> 00:20:46,400
tough to value. We saw it was kind of interesting

463
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,039
that Charlotte, Like you don't that Mark Williams trade that

464
00:20:49,079 --> 00:20:51,359
got rescinded, But they were even getting Austin Reeves as

465
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,799
part of that. Not Austin Reeves Dalton connect is part

466
00:20:53,839 --> 00:20:56,359
of that deal. So it's just you very rarely see

467
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,680
these teams like we're just gonna accept this distant first

468
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:02,359
round pick as the primary form of compensation without anything

469
00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,599
else in return. So my point is like they're pretty

470
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,359
limited in what they could do, right, And this is

471
00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,680
that's without even guaranteeing that Bropez.

472
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:18,559
Speaker 3: Comes back, right, Yeah, I mean framed this way, and

473
00:21:18,599 --> 00:21:20,119
this has been the case for a little while, Like

474
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,440
it's it's it's been true for a long time that

475
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:24,559
it's like really hard for the Bucks to get better,

476
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,000
like I think, and to use the Liller trade as

477
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,559
an example, they got different, but like I don't know

478
00:21:29,599 --> 00:21:31,720
that they got they actually got better, And I think

479
00:21:31,759 --> 00:21:34,960
that's kind of the same outlook now where it's like

480
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,640
you said, if they if they Bobby Portis and Connisan

481
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:39,799
together with a pick or whatever, like, are you gonna

482
00:21:39,799 --> 00:21:43,240
get something back that's actually better than what you would

483
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,839
have gotten from Portis and content like Portis still matters

484
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:48,720
or will it just be like a different type of

485
00:21:48,759 --> 00:21:51,960
player that changes how the team looks, but maybe like

486
00:21:52,039 --> 00:21:54,599
doesn't affect the bottom line in a hugely positive way

487
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:59,319
like that Again, I just think, like what would you

488
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,119
agree that, Like we are getting pretty close to midnight

489
00:22:03,519 --> 00:22:06,559
on on like the Bucks run in its current iteration

490
00:22:06,799 --> 00:22:10,160
just because like it can't get how do they improve?

491
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,960
Like I just I don't know what the path is?

492
00:22:13,079 --> 00:22:17,160
And then other than like you can't you can't trade

493
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,960
Dame for positive value, can you? Like I mean, especially

494
00:22:20,039 --> 00:22:22,759
with he's basically an expiring contract next year.

495
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:24,920
Speaker 1: And it's just even if let's just say you attached

496
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,400
a first round pick to Damian Lillard, who is the

497
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,759
as the Bucks, who is the player that you or

498
00:22:29,799 --> 00:22:32,200
the type of player that you want to target from

499
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:33,480
there as part of that move.

500
00:22:33,599 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 2: I mean it.

501
00:22:34,519 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 3: Would be a similar type of player.

502
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,279
Speaker 1: Right, and I'm just throwing names out there, but like,

503
00:22:38,279 --> 00:22:40,319
are you gonna do that to bring in Kevin Durant

504
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,160
just as an example. I mean it'd be I guess

505
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,920
it'd be interesting. But now you've gotten older and Kevin

506
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,799
Durant yet still better. But does that now you don't

507
00:22:50,039 --> 00:22:52,119
like in terms of playmaking, like you're definitely at a

508
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,000
deficit from there? It's it does You're right to call

509
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,880
it like it does feel like they're facing midnight. They

510
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,319
need to pull I would say, like you need to

511
00:23:00,319 --> 00:23:03,079
figure out a way, Like the Brook Lopez thing is

512
00:23:03,079 --> 00:23:05,599
like that that's huge because it's okay if he's back,

513
00:23:05,759 --> 00:23:07,039
all right, we at least know you can kind of

514
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,480
run back this core and then you do have if

515
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,119
you're willing to mortgage what's left of your future, like

516
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,880
you can just attach that pick to salary and get

517
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,640
presumably I would say, at least a rotation player, not

518
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,319
gonna get a star, but like, can you get another

519
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,480
wing type player in here? But then as I'm saying that, yeah,

520
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,519
they could figure it out, like who's Who's just the

521
00:23:24,599 --> 00:23:26,839
guy that you're gonna see them get with that, and

522
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,039
then it has to be someone who's worth Like, as

523
00:23:29,079 --> 00:23:32,599
an example, would you have given like expiring money plus

524
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,559
that distant first for DeAndre Hunter? Like if that was

525
00:23:35,559 --> 00:23:37,640
a move that was available to you this offseason if

526
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:38,640
he wasn't on the Cavs.

527
00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, probably, but but I mean or maybe I should say, yeah,

528
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,359
I would definitely consider it, But like what does that?

529
00:23:44,599 --> 00:23:47,000
What's that? Do you know? What what does that really

530
00:23:47,039 --> 00:23:48,799
do for the Bucks bottom line? I don't know. I

531
00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:53,799
mean they're better, I guess, but like maybe maybe not. Yeah,

532
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,200
this is this is we're gonna we're stepping on something

533
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,720
we're gonna do later, but I'm starting to think is

534
00:23:58,720 --> 00:23:59,440
gonna leave soon.

535
00:24:00,079 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 1: Well, my whole thing is, if I had to ask

536
00:24:02,519 --> 00:24:05,440
you right now, do you think that all three of

537
00:24:05,559 --> 00:24:08,880
Damian Lillard, Jannis and Brook Lopez or Milwaukee next season?

538
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:09,799
Speaker 2: What would your answer be?

539
00:24:10,599 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 3: I think it would be yes, mostly because like I

540
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,960
don't think Dames are tradable. I don't think Giannis is

541
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,559
quite ready to ask out, and and Lopez is so

542
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,319
like he's still so singularly important to like making the

543
00:24:22,319 --> 00:24:25,759
whole thing work with Giannis that like you can't you

544
00:24:25,839 --> 00:24:27,839
just if you're gonna if Yannis is still there, I

545
00:24:27,839 --> 00:24:29,759
think you kind of just like you're committed to brook

546
00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:32,440
Lopez like that. That feels like it's a It's very

547
00:24:32,519 --> 00:24:33,160
much connected.

548
00:24:34,039 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 2: I also wonder too, would they explore a path?

549
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,519
Speaker 1: But I don't know because if Content and Portis are expiring,

550
00:24:39,599 --> 00:24:41,359
I don't know what type of equity it takes to

551
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,680
just send them into I mean, like those both those players,

552
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,160
I think maybe not Portus. I'll have to look at

553
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,480
the size of his player option. They can fit into

554
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,200
teams as non tax payermid level exceptions. Is there an

555
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,480
area where, okay, brook Lopez kind of cancels out your

556
00:24:53,519 --> 00:24:55,680
room beneath the tax but then you make it up

557
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,279
by dumping one of them and you can use your

558
00:24:57,519 --> 00:25:00,720
Does your non tax payermid level get you somebody that

559
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:01,599
like it?

560
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:02,279
Speaker 2: Okay?

561
00:25:02,279 --> 00:25:04,720
Speaker 1: And is what is this team's biggest need? I feel

562
00:25:04,759 --> 00:25:07,440
like we could come up with three off rip and

563
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,279
one of them is gonna be a Tory in princes

564
00:25:09,279 --> 00:25:11,559
replacement probably Well.

565
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 3: I just wonder, like Bucks fans way in, like what

566
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,200
would you like, are you satisfied like with the twenty

567
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,000
one title and this great run from Giannis and like

568
00:25:22,519 --> 00:25:24,759
are you looking at the next five to ten years

569
00:25:25,279 --> 00:25:28,160
and thinking let's keep going, let's run it into the ground,

570
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,720
Like I'm already leading with the question, but like, or

571
00:25:30,759 --> 00:25:33,720
are you thinking maybe let's get like a real kickstart

572
00:25:33,759 --> 00:25:36,559
here with a Yannis trade and like a reset. I

573
00:25:36,599 --> 00:25:38,920
wonder what Bucks fans would actually want, because I don't

574
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,079
feel like Bucks fans would like with their heads on straight,

575
00:25:42,079 --> 00:25:44,160
are looking at this team saying like we just need

576
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,119
like a break and then we or two and we

577
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,240
can win the title. Like I don't feel like that's

578
00:25:48,279 --> 00:25:49,599
the common sense.

579
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 2: Certainly not post dame injury.

580
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,039
Speaker 3: Yeah no, yeah, but even with him, I maybe maybe

581
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,079
I don't know. It's hard to be like, find me

582
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,119
like the straw man rational fan of T Max. It's like, well,

583
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,960
it's there's no such thing. Everybody's different. But like, if

584
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:03,960
I'm a Bucks fan, I'm looking at this like, I

585
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,920
think we kind of had our moment and I would

586
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,039
like to not have the next decade really suck, So

587
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,839
let's let's like get out ahead of it. But that's

588
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:11,680
easier said than done.

589
00:26:11,799 --> 00:26:13,079
Speaker 2: Tough for them, though, is how do you make that?

590
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 1: Because their picks are it's not a situation where Phoenix

591
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:16,880
is Okay, we need.

592
00:26:16,799 --> 00:26:17,559
Speaker 2: To go talk to Houston.

593
00:26:17,559 --> 00:26:19,839
Speaker 1: We'll get multiple of our own picks back. Their picks

594
00:26:19,839 --> 00:26:22,359
are more spread out, and so you are trading, you

595
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,240
honest knowing that what at most you get back one

596
00:26:25,279 --> 00:26:27,920
of your future selections, if even that, when you're looking at.

597
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 2: The teams that control them. And so I think that

598
00:26:30,279 --> 00:26:31,000
makes it tougher.

599
00:26:31,599 --> 00:26:34,359
Speaker 1: And I just I mentioned Torriyan Prince before, like you

600
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,240
don't have Gary Trent Junior's bird rights either, Like this

601
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,319
is it's gonna be tough for them.

602
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:39,799
Speaker 2: I don't.

603
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,039
Speaker 1: I hate going from the day injury to that, but

604
00:26:42,079 --> 00:26:44,440
I'm this is We kind of knew that they were

605
00:26:44,519 --> 00:26:46,480
entering the eleventh hour, but it feels like, oh, or

606
00:26:46,559 --> 00:26:46,920
that is it?

607
00:26:47,079 --> 00:26:48,079
Speaker 2: Just like this is it now?

608
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:49,839
Speaker 3: I think it's starting to feel like it to me.

609
00:26:50,039 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 1: We are finally going to get to the sale of

610
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,359
the Boston Celtics. Did you, mister Hughes, want to take us.

611
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 2: Through the details of what is the richest sale in

612
00:27:00,759 --> 00:27:01,400
NBA history?

613
00:27:01,599 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 3: As wasn't it like pro sports history too? Because they

614
00:27:04,519 --> 00:27:07,839
beat the Commander's valuation of of like six point oh

615
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,519
five billion. So the buyer or I mean it's led

616
00:27:11,559 --> 00:27:14,240
by bil chishm who is from symphony technology. It's like

617
00:27:14,279 --> 00:27:17,519
a I don't know, private equity, venture capital something or

618
00:27:17,559 --> 00:27:20,759
other that is a I don't know that that seems

619
00:27:20,799 --> 00:27:22,640
to be like kind of the norm is these these

620
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,039
these types of outfits are getting stakes in NBA teams increasingly,

621
00:27:26,079 --> 00:27:28,599
although there's a limit I guess on how much like

622
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,279
a private equity can hold, like the share of an

623
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,240
NBA team that it's allowed to hold. But anyway, so

624
00:27:34,759 --> 00:27:37,799
this is six point one billion dollars getting fifty one

625
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,400
percent at that valuation. The tricky thing is this is

626
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,440
going to be like a tiered sale sort of or

627
00:27:44,519 --> 00:27:48,160
like a weird like gradual transition, So like it does

628
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,160
seem like that valuation could go up and this could

629
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,039
be like a seven plus billion dollar transaction. Ultimately, is

630
00:27:55,039 --> 00:27:55,960
that your understanding?

631
00:27:56,759 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 1: I guess it depends on just what is the latter

632
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,640
forty nine percent actually evaluated.

633
00:28:01,319 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 3: And when, like, because as the franchise valuation goes up,

634
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,920
are we paying based on those terms? Like it's the

635
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,079
point is six point one two seven point something maybe

636
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:11,799
depending on how.

637
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,519
Speaker 1: I actually ask you a question before we even get

638
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,200
get to some of the additional stuff.

639
00:28:15,519 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 2: If you were like the.

640
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,079
Speaker 1: Framing of it wouldn't you typically then have seen the

641
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,839
seven point three billion number first, which is the max.

642
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,400
I guess like the agreement is the next part of

643
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,480
the franchise can't be bought at evaluation that exceeds seven

644
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,559
point three billion. Are we just so used to the

645
00:28:30,559 --> 00:28:33,960
way that contracts are announced that this it doesn't really

646
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,440
serve like maybe this makes uh what is the Chris

647
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:37,799
gives it?

648
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 2: How are we pronouncing it?

649
00:28:39,039 --> 00:28:43,759
Speaker 1: Bill Chisholm, Bill Chisholm, Is this just like does this

650
00:28:43,799 --> 00:28:45,720
make it actually look more favorable? Because no, he didn't

651
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,440
pay seven point three billion, like he paid six point

652
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,480
one for a majority at of valuation for majority of

653
00:28:50,519 --> 00:28:53,160
the franchise. It's very I'm just curious as to why

654
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,839
we would normally see the bigger number. I feel like

655
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,799
listed first and the seven point three billion came out

656
00:28:58,839 --> 00:28:59,640
after the fact.

657
00:28:59,799 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that is weird. I mean the six point

658
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,720
one seems pretty obvious. You know that it's like trying

659
00:29:05,759 --> 00:29:08,680
to exceed the previous record for a sports franchise purchase

660
00:29:08,759 --> 00:29:12,319
by the like one of the smallest amounts possible. But yeah,

661
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,839
usually the whatever the biggest possible number is is what

662
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,920
gets released because it's like it looks better for everybody,

663
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,039
I guess, but yeah, I don't. I don't know what

664
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:22,119
to make of that.

665
00:29:22,559 --> 00:29:27,119
Speaker 2: So that's all we need to Like that's the biggest thing.

666
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,759
Speaker 3: So he's still searching for additional funding. Uh, and the

667
00:29:29,759 --> 00:29:33,200
border governors is not going to vote on this until June. So, like,

668
00:29:34,759 --> 00:29:37,079
this doesn't feel like a wolve situation where it's like

669
00:29:37,119 --> 00:29:41,200
you're gonna have two separate ownership groups like figuring things

670
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,599
out one because this doesn't seem to be contentious, like

671
00:29:43,599 --> 00:29:45,720
like it is between Glenn Taylor and a Rod and

672
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,119
Mark Glory. But still so a couple of things to

673
00:29:49,279 --> 00:29:53,400
get into the fallout of this purchase, because like this

674
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,160
was like a threshold issue that seemed like needed to

675
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,720
be resolved before the NBA got onto some other business

676
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,200
like spansion and other stuff. But kind of keeping it

677
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,720
local for the moment. So the Celtics are not just

678
00:30:06,759 --> 00:30:09,000
the business. They're a basketball team and they're really good

679
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:10,880
and it was always going to be hard to keep

680
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,480
them together. What does this mean for the team's ability

681
00:30:14,519 --> 00:30:18,279
to stay together and be extremely costly Just a couple

682
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,559
details of note, and we can discuss this a little

683
00:30:20,559 --> 00:30:22,839
bit more at length. So they're twenty thirty two because

684
00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:25,799
they are so far into the second Apron, their twenty

685
00:30:25,839 --> 00:30:27,880
thirty two draft pick is going to be frozen. They

686
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,640
finish over the second Apron more than once between next

687
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,400
year and twenty eight twenty nine. That pick also goes

688
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:34,440
to the end of the first round.

689
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,599
Speaker 1: I did clarify this with Keith, like that cycle continues, right,

690
00:30:38,559 --> 00:30:41,720
so they don't get out. Yeah, like there their twenty

691
00:30:41,759 --> 00:30:44,200
thirty three draft pick is about to be frozen. If

692
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,200
they stayed, well, you're gonna get to that. Sorry, but yeah,

693
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,720
I know, did you give that much thought? I asked

694
00:30:48,759 --> 00:30:50,559
Keith about it because I just I only focused on

695
00:30:50,599 --> 00:30:52,839
the initially frozen pick and then like how do you

696
00:30:52,839 --> 00:30:55,000
get it unfrozen or how long? And then I asked

697
00:30:55,039 --> 00:30:56,839
him it was just like mid podcast is like, so wait,

698
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,720
you could just have like all these picks just like

699
00:30:58,799 --> 00:30:59,440
frozen at once.

700
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 2: He was like yeah, it's like oh god.

701
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 3: Right, so that's one. I mean, we thought the second

702
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,440
Apron had teeth. It's like no, there's like several rows

703
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,400
of teeth like behind the real pointy ones that we

704
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,519
didn't know about, or that we just hadn't focused on

705
00:31:11,519 --> 00:31:13,920
because they hadn't like the issue hadn't arisen yet, and

706
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,880
now here we kind of are. So but by the way,

707
00:31:17,039 --> 00:31:20,240
the Celtics are profiling as a second Apron team next year.

708
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,599
They are about twenty two million into this or twenty

709
00:31:23,599 --> 00:31:26,000
two point eight almost twenty three into the second Apron

710
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,519
with their team salary plus the repeater tax, assuming fourteen

711
00:31:29,599 --> 00:31:32,359
roster spots, they're gonna be five hundred and thirteen million

712
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:37,640
dollar operation next year. And that's without like perennially integral

713
00:31:37,759 --> 00:31:40,920
Al Horford, who is an unrestricted free agent. I don't

714
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,640
know what he's worth, but like they need that dude.

715
00:31:44,559 --> 00:31:47,799
Speaker 1: At ken million, he's still a bargain, right, Yes, yeah,

716
00:31:47,799 --> 00:31:48,599
he's still a bargain.

717
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 3: But then like where they're at with the tax and

718
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,359
the aprons and the penalties, and it's like, if you

719
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,039
sign him to like a twelve million dollar a year deal,

720
00:31:56,119 --> 00:31:59,039
it's like, wow, that's one hundred and fifty million. You know,

721
00:31:59,079 --> 00:32:01,839
It's just that's not right. But it's like the the

722
00:32:01,839 --> 00:32:04,680
the add ons are really going to make that painful. So,

723
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:10,599
I mean, the question is, and we've sort of thought

724
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,559
about this for a while, the cell the sale really

725
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,880
pulls it into focuses like how long can they keep

726
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,640
this team together? And and his new ownerships like I

727
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:24,079
don't know, willingness to do this different from previous ownerships.

728
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,000
Is it greater? Is it lesser? Like you don't typically

729
00:32:27,039 --> 00:32:32,799
buy things like this to lose money, So like, I

730
00:32:32,799 --> 00:32:34,799
don't know. It just introduces a new variable into a

731
00:32:34,799 --> 00:32:37,799
situation that was already kind of headed for, like like

732
00:32:38,039 --> 00:32:40,079
not a Cristis point, but like a decision point.

733
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: Certainly, Yeah, it's it's it's fascinating because I think you

734
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,319
gravitate towards that half a billion dollar number. That's a

735
00:32:48,319 --> 00:32:52,039
lot of money, and you have to wonder, like the

736
00:32:52,119 --> 00:32:55,640
new ownership resim, what's their stomach for footing this bill?

737
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,160
But I'm increasingly and I was pretty hard the nuggets

738
00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:59,680
of the team. I was probably and even the Clippers.

739
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,519
I was the artist on of being cowards against the

740
00:33:02,519 --> 00:33:03,480
second aprin the Clippers.

741
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,079
Speaker 2: It worked out really well for them, right.

742
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: The limitations, I just clearly, as teams were figuring it out,

743
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:09,759
I didn't give it enough forethought.

744
00:33:10,119 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: I was wrong. I apologize or maybe I'm not sorry,

745
00:33:13,039 --> 00:33:14,599
who knows, But like.

746
00:33:14,799 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: The limitations here of just if you the Celtics are

747
00:33:17,759 --> 00:33:20,359
gonna be an excellent litmus test. I think for how

748
00:33:20,519 --> 00:33:24,400
long teams are willing to pay because it's not just

749
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,599
about paying. You're paying for this roster while working within

750
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,680
these insane limitations. When it comes to bettering, you're like,

751
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,359
they could keep Al Horford, just continue to pay this, Okay,

752
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,920
you're fine through next season. But now it's christophs Porzingis

753
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:39,400
is going to the final year of his contract and

754
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,400
has banged up a lot. Drew Holliday has not looked

755
00:33:41,599 --> 00:33:44,440
so great here. I wanted to ask you, that's twenty

756
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,279
two point eight million. It's a big number in a vacuum.

757
00:33:47,839 --> 00:33:51,079
Could you see a scenario in which they try to

758
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,200
get out of the second apron this offseason and the

759
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,160
two players I look at, I know a lot of

760
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,720
people will gravitate towards Jalen Brown. It's kind of a

761
00:33:58,799 --> 00:34:02,079
Drew Holliday or christophsports a situation where can you trade

762
00:34:02,119 --> 00:34:06,000
those that one player for someone who is making you know,

763
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:07,440
less than half of.

764
00:34:07,359 --> 00:34:14,519
Speaker 3: That I mean, I don't. I immediately jumped to like, well, okay,

765
00:34:14,559 --> 00:34:16,920
so if it's Pritchard and I was trying to do

766
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,400
it like a different way to just how can we

767
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,800
sneak under I don't think you can really without Pritchard.

768
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,280
Speaker 1: You still fall fall short, right like ducking it, and

769
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,480
then it's well, now we've obliterated, like two of the

770
00:34:28,519 --> 00:34:30,840
top eight spots in our rotation are just gone.

771
00:34:31,079 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's like, I don't know. I I think

772
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,920
if it's if I'm a fan, I'm just like, yeah,

773
00:34:38,039 --> 00:34:41,199
it's let's continue, please, I don't care, like, just spend

774
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,679
the money you just bought this thing. But but yeah,

775
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,159
like so I don't know the answer to that. If

776
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:48,400
if you're asking me to choose, like do they dump

777
00:34:48,599 --> 00:34:52,079
Porzingis or Holiday or Brown? It's like, I think you

778
00:34:52,079 --> 00:34:54,360
can make a case for all those guys. Brown obviously

779
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,000
offers by far the most potential savings, and I guess

780
00:34:58,079 --> 00:35:01,360
you you could make the case that like you still

781
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,599
have Tatum, and like if you lose Holiday or Porzingis,

782
00:35:05,639 --> 00:35:08,880
you lose these different dimensions. I don't know. I I

783
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,800
think like the boldest move would be to make Brown

784
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,000
the guy, just.

785
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: Try and sort of divest him into like two or

786
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,760
three players that make yeah thirty, yeah you.

787
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,280
Speaker 3: Get maybe you know you're not better, but you're maybe

788
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,239
deeper and you add some flexibility that you wouldn't that

789
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,519
you would have lost by continuing to pay as much

790
00:35:28,519 --> 00:35:32,159
as they were and in salary attacks, But like, yeah,

791
00:35:32,159 --> 00:35:34,519
I just I don't know. Maybe maybe the decision gets

792
00:35:34,559 --> 00:35:38,000
simpler if like Holiday slips again next year, or if

793
00:35:38,039 --> 00:35:40,360
like he has a terrible playoffs, then it's like, well, okay,

794
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:41,920
so we're kind of at the end of the road

795
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,360
on this. But even if it's Holiday or Porzingis, the

796
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:50,360
savings does not. It doesn't seem like that would like

797
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,599
offset how much you're losing from like a competitiveness perspective,

798
00:35:54,639 --> 00:35:56,679
because like both those guys matter so much, and like

799
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,159
maybe not holidays so much, but poor Zingus's deal is

800
00:35:59,199 --> 00:36:02,719
like it feels like undermarket, you know, or like close

801
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,559
to it for what he provides in the games that

802
00:36:04,599 --> 00:36:07,280
they really need. So yeah, I don't know, I would

803
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,159
say before I throw it back to you, Like the

804
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:15,880
last CBA, you know, didn't include a hard cap. But

805
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,800
what we're seeing, I think now with the severity of

806
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:24,000
these upcoming penalties specifically, is like the effect is really similar,

807
00:36:24,159 --> 00:36:26,719
Like there isn't a true hard cap, but it's like

808
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,280
the deterrent factor is so strong that it's like about

809
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,199
as close as and like owners did this I think

810
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,360
to like police themselves, you know, like, let's so like

811
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,400
kind of mission accomplished on that front. Because if a

812
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,880
team as good as Boston is, like we're discussing, well,

813
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,760
how are they gonna get cheaper? Which is nuts like

814
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,440
right now, but like that's what we're doing. So the

815
00:36:48,519 --> 00:36:50,800
second Apron and all this other stuff has like clearly

816
00:36:51,119 --> 00:36:53,159
had the desired effect. I think from as far as

817
00:36:53,199 --> 00:36:56,199
ownership protecting itself from spending a lot.

818
00:36:56,039 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 1: I will say, and I'm not even looking We're looking

819
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,519
at it through the lens of how do they get

820
00:36:59,599 --> 00:37:03,800
cheaper because they want to unlock these limitations that are

821
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,559
on them. I am curious, though, when does this start

822
00:37:06,599 --> 00:37:10,280
really materially affecting how much players are being paid? The

823
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,000
superstars are the superstars, But like, I don't think we've

824
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,159
seen the We've already seen like some of the the

825
00:37:15,199 --> 00:37:18,119
mid run guys get squeezed. I think that's gonna still

826
00:37:18,159 --> 00:37:20,480
get worse and worse. That was one of my concerns

827
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,079
at the outset of all this. We just haven't seen

828
00:37:23,119 --> 00:37:25,480
it fully bear out. I will say my expectation for

829
00:37:25,519 --> 00:37:27,880
the Celtics you don't want to see kind of what

830
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,519
Minnesota did where it was you stayed in the second

831
00:37:31,559 --> 00:37:35,000
apron and got worse type deal, like because that screams

832
00:37:35,159 --> 00:37:37,559
just like, Okay, well they were planning I guess around

833
00:37:37,599 --> 00:37:40,719
sort of the long term, longer term viability. I'm gonna

834
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,079
follow I actually very quickly. How much do you think

835
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,920
these playoffs will inform how they might approach the offseason,

836
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,719
because that might you know, what would need to happen

837
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,320
for them to look at I'm approaching this from saying

838
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,880
I think they are not going to reconcile with this,

839
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,320
the second apron of it all until next summer stops

840
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,800
porzingis comes off the books. Maybe Al Horford will have

841
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,360
been on a one plus one at that point, or

842
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,719
just a one year deal. You'll have Drew Holliday's deal

843
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,800
will be shorter, and you just sort of reevaluate from there.

844
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,639
You've now gone two seasons into the second apron. That's

845
00:38:12,679 --> 00:38:17,119
always the pivot point that I've assumed they would allow them,

846
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:18,920
like you're That's why I think they're gonna be a

847
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,000
good gauge is because you can just keep this core

848
00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:24,880
together White Brown and Tatum, and if people stay relatively healthy,

849
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,360
you have to like change out some depth pieces around them,

850
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,079
like this team will be an Eastern Conference contender for

851
00:38:30,119 --> 00:38:33,559
a while, but like if what needs to happen in

852
00:38:33,559 --> 00:38:37,519
the playoffs or maybe them to accelerate that timeline from again,

853
00:38:38,039 --> 00:38:40,960
I'll say purely a competitive The money matters here and

854
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,280
that's what you don't want to see with any new

855
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:46,199
ownership is you don't want to see this this sale,

856
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,280
like the Celtics change hands and they're looking to cut costs,

857
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,199
and that's this just becomes a casualty of that. If

858
00:38:52,199 --> 00:38:55,079
you're looking at this from a logistical perspective of being

859
00:38:55,159 --> 00:38:57,639
able to stay good for as long as possible, but

860
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,920
still maintaining the tools to make change as you need,

861
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,239
is there any reasonable outcome in the playoffs that would

862
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,760
convince you the Celtics have to accelerate the dissolution of

863
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:08,519
this exact core.

864
00:39:09,079 --> 00:39:12,159
Speaker 3: I don't think you. I really don't think you're gonna

865
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,519
be able to do both of the things you're talking about. Like,

866
00:39:15,679 --> 00:39:17,719
I just I don't think the system is set up

867
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:22,000
that way. So to answer the specific question, I would

868
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:23,840
you you'd certainly if they win the title. It's like,

869
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:25,960
you can't, you can't break this team up. You you

870
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,320
would think, like, although I think the twenty eleven MAVs

871
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,079
kind of just like let Tyson Chandler go and like,

872
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,880
so we there's some precedent for for winning teams to

873
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,639
now the circumstances were very different then, but like it

874
00:39:38,679 --> 00:39:41,559
doesn't guarantee. Sometimes in a weird way, winning a title

875
00:39:41,559 --> 00:39:43,800
can like provide some cover for like, all right, we

876
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,079
got that, so now we have to like come back

877
00:39:46,119 --> 00:39:48,719
to reality. I think if they win it, you just

878
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,159
you don't touch it. You just paying what it costs.

879
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,280
If like if you get now Cleveland's look shakier, but

880
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,519
like if you get smoked by the Calves in the

881
00:39:57,519 --> 00:40:00,559
conference finals, I don't know, you might and like Holiday

882
00:40:00,599 --> 00:40:04,639
looks old or Porzingis doesn't stay healthy, like then maybe

883
00:40:04,679 --> 00:40:07,760
you really maybe that's all it would take. I think

884
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,360
if you make the finals, unless like say the thunder

885
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,079
just absolutely blow your doors off and it's clear, like oh,

886
00:40:13,159 --> 00:40:16,599
these are teams on two different levels. Like even that

887
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,400
even making the finals like should be enough, I would,

888
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,920
I would think, but like those are high bars, like

889
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,159
crazy shit can happen. You might lose in the second

890
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,360
round because I don't know, Tatum goes cold and like

891
00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:31,320
Brown gets sprains an ankle or whatever. Like's not it's

892
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,159
not out of the realm of possibility, I would say,

893
00:40:33,199 --> 00:40:37,599
but but it's just just like a reasonably expected amount

894
00:40:37,599 --> 00:40:40,960
of success should insulate the Celtics from, you know, stripping

895
00:40:41,039 --> 00:40:41,559
parts off.

896
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:45,119
Speaker 1: And I don't think that really changes, Like, I don't

897
00:40:45,159 --> 00:40:47,519
know that this sale changes anything other than the fact

898
00:40:47,559 --> 00:40:50,920
that it's just maybe an additional unknown or curveball. It

899
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,360
does feel like it it maybe increases the uncertainty of

900
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:55,679
the off season a little bit more.

901
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 2: I just don't I wouldn't expect it to be seismic.

902
00:40:58,679 --> 00:41:02,519
Speaker 1: Another like sort of aspect of this though, is Wick

903
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,840
Grousebeck is expected to stay on as team governor through

904
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,880
twenty twenty seven twenty twenty eight. How much of an influence, though,

905
00:41:11,039 --> 00:41:15,960
does Chisholm have over the organization if they're looking to

906
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,079
cut like he I'm sorry, I know he's a lifelong

907
00:41:18,079 --> 00:41:21,360
Celtics Sam. We didn't mention that you have private equity background.

908
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,119
I'm just gonna assume you're in the business of like

909
00:41:23,159 --> 00:41:25,159
slashing operational calls.

910
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 3: Right right, that's the and like wanting a strong say

911
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:32,719
in like what happens with the thing you just bought what.

912
00:41:33,079 --> 00:41:34,079
Speaker 2: I found fascinating.

913
00:41:34,079 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: I think this was from the Business Journal that grouse

914
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,159
Beck it was initially a mandate that he was going

915
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,320
to stay on his team governor through twenty twenty seven

916
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,599
twenty twenty eight. Then it no longer was, but then

917
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,880
Billy Boy decided that it was important, so he is

918
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:50,760
going to stay on his team governor. I just want

919
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,559
to know, and I'm asking for Mark Cuban basically does

920
00:41:54,599 --> 00:41:56,800
this mean it's in writing or is this or is

921
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,480
this another handshake agreement where okay, he does like if

922
00:42:00,519 --> 00:42:02,480
you're gonna control fifty one percent of the team, like

923
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,880
you're gonna have that say, and we see grouseback kind

924
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,079
of he gets the demotion where it's like, oh, he's

925
00:42:08,079 --> 00:42:11,400
like serving in like a like a consultation capacity is

926
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,480
like the second like team governor, but like there can

927
00:42:14,559 --> 00:42:17,079
only be one managing governor, Like that's how this stuff

928
00:42:17,159 --> 00:42:20,000
is set up. And I'm just curious to see. I

929
00:42:20,039 --> 00:42:22,920
think maybe this could inform like the stuff we were

930
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,800
just talking about with the team. But whenever I see, okay,

931
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,360
this the quote unquote like now who's going to be

932
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,559
the minority owner? For lack of better phrasing, is the

933
00:42:31,599 --> 00:42:34,159
governor for the next couple of years. I think that

934
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,079
makes a lot of sense in theory. And am I

935
00:42:37,199 --> 00:42:38,920
just reading into too much how things played out with

936
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:40,800
the Mavericks. I just I want to know if this

937
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,639
is in writing, Is this part of the physical agreement.

938
00:42:43,199 --> 00:42:45,039
Speaker 2: Of the sale of the team.

939
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 3: I just think even if it, well, if it is,

940
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,320
then then that solidifies a few things. But it's it

941
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,239
is just always gonna be a weird dynamic when like

942
00:42:57,199 --> 00:43:01,559
essentially a holdover who is like dive investing his interest

943
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:06,000
in this thing is still like somehow has a greater

944
00:43:06,159 --> 00:43:09,159
say or an equal say to the party that has

945
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,599
just spent a ton of money and is heavily invested.

946
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:16,440
Like it just I guess like as a steward, Like

947
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,639
maybe everybody's on great terms with each other, with the

948
00:43:18,679 --> 00:43:21,119
new ownership group and the previous one, and it's just like,

949
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,239
let's work together. We all care about the Celtics. I

950
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,719
guess it benefits all of us if things continue to

951
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:29,519
go smoothly, although like the people that are selling, like

952
00:43:29,639 --> 00:43:34,079
I don't know why, but it just the dynamic is strange,

953
00:43:34,119 --> 00:43:36,320
Like that's a weird setup and like you can see

954
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,119
the fault like Cubans out like Cuban's got no say

955
00:43:39,119 --> 00:43:42,079
over anything, and he won't stop talking about how what

956
00:43:42,199 --> 00:43:44,360
would have happened or not happened if he did have

957
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:48,000
a say, and so like that seemed to me like

958
00:43:48,039 --> 00:43:51,239
an extreme circumstance. We kind of have different takes on it,

959
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,760
I guess, but like, I don't imagine that the same

960
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,760
thing will happen like fool me twice. If the Celtics

961
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,639
thing goes just like the Map thing did, then I

962
00:44:01,639 --> 00:44:03,559
think you will just see everything have to be in

963
00:44:03,559 --> 00:44:07,920
writing and or previous owners never ever again, assuming they're

964
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:11,000
going to continue to have a say once things change hands.

965
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,079
Speaker 1: And I I would become worried if this becomes a

966
00:44:14,159 --> 00:44:17,519
detail that's just sort of threw like, oh, Bill has

967
00:44:17,599 --> 00:44:19,440
more of a say or he's making a lot of decisions,

968
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,159
and then that's what I would brace for. Okay, if

969
00:44:21,159 --> 00:44:23,000
that part of the agreement has already kind of followed

970
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,719
by the wayside break up the Celtics by the twenty

971
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:27,559
twenty six trade deadline, as far as like, that's what

972
00:44:27,599 --> 00:44:30,000
I'll be expecting if we hear prumblings of that over

973
00:44:30,039 --> 00:44:33,920
the offseason. But I will say if this is if

974
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:37,280
if Grousebeck is the like the on paper, like he

975
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,320
is contractually the team governor through twenty twenty seven, twenty

976
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,119
twenty eight, I do think it bodes well for Celtics

977
00:44:43,119 --> 00:44:46,719
fans that this team stays together through at least next

978
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:48,719
season and maybe even like further than that, because I

979
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,719
know it's still his money. Like, isn't like the managing

980
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,000
team govern would be the one that's like kind of

981
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:54,960
writing the luxury tax checks at the end of the year.

982
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:56,880
So maybe it makes it a little easier for Wick

983
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:58,559
to kind of like gloss over.

984
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,639
Speaker 3: That, Yeah, maybe they can add let's see what, let's

985
00:45:01,639 --> 00:45:03,719
get more expensive? Who cares.

986
00:45:04,039 --> 00:45:06,639
Speaker 1: The final element of this isn't really Celtics related for me,

987
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,199
but I was curious as to what you thought that

988
00:45:10,519 --> 00:45:14,840
this might mean for the expansion discussion. And I don't

989
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:15,920
know if you want to take us through like some

990
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:17,840
of the bullet points that we have on expansion.

991
00:45:18,039 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 3: So just some things to kind of chew on, because

992
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,679
this very much was I don't know it was even

993
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,199
explicit in a couple reports over the last year or

994
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,360
so or even longer than that, where it's like, yeah,

995
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,239
expansion is maybe on. It's not like a front burner thing.

996
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,559
We've got a prominent team for sale now in the Celtics.

997
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,920
Let's get through that, and then that will inform on

998
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,519
several fronts, like the franchise valuations and just like all

999
00:45:41,599 --> 00:45:43,280
kinds of things, Like let's get that done first. So

1000
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,880
that's I mean done ish because it's it is going

1001
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,360
to be like a multi year process. But like, so,

1002
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:53,960
does this mean expansion is like somehow likelier or as

1003
00:45:54,079 --> 00:45:57,519
likely if teams are selling you know, minority shares more frequently.

1004
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,440
You've got reports suggesting expansion fees could rise up to

1005
00:46:01,519 --> 00:46:05,000
like five billion dollars a team. That's from ESPN late

1006
00:46:05,079 --> 00:46:08,280
last year, So that's ten billion bucks for new franchises.

1007
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:10,679
That's three hundred and thirty three million per existing team.

1008
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 2: Like is that math right? That seems wrong? That's my math?

1009
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:15,039
I apologize, M.

1010
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 3: Three thirty three. I don't know. It seems like it

1011
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,000
seems like a lot of money. It's gonna expend. You

1012
00:46:20,159 --> 00:46:21,519
asking me to do math on the fly?

1013
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 2: Can you Mike check? Do I sound fire?

1014
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:27,320
Speaker 3: What else?

1015
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 2: So?

1016
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess maybe the main question is just like

1017
00:46:31,039 --> 00:46:34,239
does this suggest expansion is more or less likely? And

1018
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,400
like the terms of expand like, what is this, how

1019
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:42,920
does this affect the ongoing discussion about you know, Vegas, Vancouver, Seattle, whatever.

1020
00:46:43,039 --> 00:46:46,079
Speaker 1: My initial thought and I apparently approached I think I

1021
00:46:46,119 --> 00:46:47,079
initially approached it.

1022
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:48,519
Speaker 2: From my mind doesn't necessarily work this way.

1023
00:46:48,639 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 1: From the wrong end was if franchises are skyrocketing and

1024
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,960
this amount of value, our owners, like current majority owners,

1025
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,320
are gonna want to sell if they think that trend

1026
00:46:58,360 --> 00:46:59,719
is going to continue. And then kind of miss like

1027
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,360
what Timberwolf sell forard a one point nine billion dollar

1028
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:06,960
valuation And so when one Taylor one in arbitrary like

1029
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:08,519
what would he have been able to sell the team

1030
00:47:08,519 --> 00:47:09,239
for this summer?

1031
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 2: Now?

1032
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,280
Speaker 1: So that made me think, oh, that's just gonna make

1033
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,960
owners not want to dilute, potentially dilute the valuation of

1034
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,760
their own franchise by adding two more. But then we

1035
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:23,800
see the reporting that because the Celtics sale is in

1036
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:27,280
final and that grism is looking to add like other

1037
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,280
like he's trying to get more funding. Are we gonna

1038
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,360
get in the habit of seeing teams sell off these

1039
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,199
like minority chunks more often and those are technically worth more,

1040
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:38,800
where yes, you're going to concede like if so, if

1041
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:40,639
the franchise is valued, it's six billion dollars.

1042
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:42,199
Speaker 2: You're not gonna get maybe.

1043
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,119
Speaker 1: Dollar for dollar if you sell twenty percent of the

1044
00:47:44,119 --> 00:47:47,760
franchise at that six billion dollar valuation, But are you

1045
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,679
gonna get more than you normally would have years ago,

1046
00:47:51,079 --> 00:47:54,440
like closer to like approximating that six billion dollar valuation.

1047
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:57,519
And if so you get cash, then you're still the

1048
00:47:57,559 --> 00:48:00,239
majority team governor and your franchise. You're still maybe to

1049
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,280
capitalize on the rising value of your franchise. And it

1050
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,400
just made me think, like based off that reporting, that

1051
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,840
I wonder is that three hundred and that's for two

1052
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,719
expansion franchise, So if it's one, it's even less money.

1053
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,360
But is that extra money that's coming in three hundred

1054
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:19,000
plus million? Is that enough of an incentive for owners

1055
00:48:19,119 --> 00:48:22,000
to Again, I don't want to call it a risk,

1056
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,800
but like you, it is a risk of diluting the

1057
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:28,360
valuation of your own franchise. Like what payout are they

1058
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,320
gonna deem is greater? And I just the more we

1059
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:35,400
talk about expansion, everyone we've said it's inevitable, but the

1060
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,519
more I think about it, it's like it still feels

1061
00:48:37,519 --> 00:48:38,679
like it's forever away.

1062
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 2: Based on just some of the t leaves that are

1063
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:40,880
out there.

1064
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,199
Speaker 3: It's so funny. I was thinking about this this morning,

1065
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:47,840
about how like, yeah, we have taken an imminent expansion

1066
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,119
as like a given. That's like as well, it's just

1067
00:48:50,159 --> 00:48:53,679
gonna happen, And like I kind of I'm leery of

1068
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:56,079
this because I keep doing this with like whether it's

1069
00:48:56,119 --> 00:49:00,159
the the prevalence of three, there's too many threes being shot,

1070
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:03,920
and like the NBA media discourses this, it's just like

1071
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:08,400
I keep defaulting to like everything's fine, like and everything's great,

1072
00:49:08,519 --> 00:49:11,079
Like why are we so hung up on like let's

1073
00:49:11,159 --> 00:49:14,079
change this or like let's add this or whatever. So

1074
00:49:14,199 --> 00:49:17,039
I caught myself thinking like do we actually need expansion,

1075
00:49:17,119 --> 00:49:19,360
like other than the fact that Seattle got robbed of

1076
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,079
the team and needs a team back, Like that's persuasive

1077
00:49:22,119 --> 00:49:24,239
to me that fan base deserves to have a team,

1078
00:49:24,639 --> 00:49:27,320
But like from the business perspective of the NBA, and

1079
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,039
like the talent dilution thing, like there's actually kind of

1080
00:49:30,079 --> 00:49:32,960
like this is maybe another one like some decent arguments

1081
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,920
against expansion, like do we need this? Does the league

1082
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,800
need this? Things seem to be going fine, like I

1083
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,239
just I don't know. I had like a weird like

1084
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:44,119
step back and reevaluate the whole thing because we had

1085
00:49:44,159 --> 00:49:46,519
just been assuming it was a guarantee and and like

1086
00:49:46,679 --> 00:49:48,559
does it need to be I don't know well.

1087
00:49:48,599 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 1: And also the NBA, Brian Windhorse said this a couple

1088
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:55,360
of weeks back. They're focused on like developing the euro League.

1089
00:49:55,559 --> 00:49:57,119
One of the notes was, I think this was from

1090
00:49:57,159 --> 00:50:00,400
the Sports Business Journal. The league thinks that the Europe

1091
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,599
markets and then the Middle East like basketball markets could

1092
00:50:03,639 --> 00:50:05,840
be worth between like three and five billion dollars an

1093
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,480
annual revenue for them if they're able to like put

1094
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:12,440
their footprints there and so like it, maybe it makes

1095
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:14,239
more sense for them to vote financially. It says, well,

1096
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:16,639
we're gonna get more money and we're not gonna have

1097
00:50:16,639 --> 00:50:19,159
to touch not only the product here, but like the

1098
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:22,280
rising like risk the right because I would assume if

1099
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:25,199
you add two franchises to the league and you you're

1100
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:27,320
going to naturally dilute the talent that way. Even if

1101
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:31,639
they kind of expand the expansion draft parameters like infory Okay,

1102
00:50:31,679 --> 00:50:34,039
franchise values, maybe they'll continue to go up, but they're

1103
00:50:34,039 --> 00:50:36,760
not gonna like this is what did he like this

1104
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,159
ten X, like we're seeing on these values now like

1105
00:50:39,159 --> 00:50:41,599
for what you initially like sometimes pay for it. So

1106
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:46,039
I maybe maybe we're overthinking this, but I think I

1107
00:50:46,079 --> 00:50:47,960
subscribe to kind of your thought to where it's I

1108
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,119
don't know if we need it, but from a financial

1109
00:50:50,159 --> 00:50:52,679
perspective for owners, I'm just wondering if it's even worth it.

1110
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it's interesting. It feels like strangely it's become

1111
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:58,960
less of a no brainer than it seemed like, I

1112
00:50:58,960 --> 00:50:59,679
don't know a year ago.

1113
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 1: This time, I would be curious, but like maybe the

1114
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:04,679
Celtics are kind of the just we've now seen the

1115
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:08,480
seven billion dollar number thrown out there. I would just

1116
00:51:08,519 --> 00:51:11,000
want to see, like, is there any team that could

1117
00:51:11,039 --> 00:51:13,199
fetch a higher evaluate, Like it would be the Lakers

1118
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,239
or the Knicks, right, could you see like there? I

1119
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,280
think both of them might have better arena situations like agreement.

1120
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:20,079
So but I would just if you put the Lake,

1121
00:51:20,159 --> 00:51:21,960
if the Bus family put the Lakers up for sale

1122
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,800
right now, I'd be curious to see what they it

1123
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:24,519
would be value.

1124
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,599
Speaker 3: It would be more than six point one, like guarantee,

1125
00:51:28,639 --> 00:51:31,079
what would be the Yeah, whatever the highest number is,

1126
00:51:31,079 --> 00:51:33,039
it would be above that. I don't know how high

1127
00:51:33,039 --> 00:51:33,440
it would go.

1128
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:37,679
Speaker 1: If final question on this expansion by what was the

1129
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,639
twenty twenty five Will there be expansion by twenty thirty

1130
00:51:40,639 --> 00:51:43,840
two when the Celtics draft pick, maybe at the end.

1131
00:51:43,679 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 3: Of the Celticton finally unfrees their pick, I will say,

1132
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:51,880
I don't. I don't know if they'll actually like be

1133
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:55,320
a team in existence, but the process will have like

1134
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:59,199
formally like it started by you know what I mean,

1135
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:02,960
Like they'll be it will be official that something expansion

1136
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:06,760
wise is happening. Whether that's Europe or like Mexico City

1137
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,800
or somewhere domestically. I don't know, because who knows how

1138
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:12,719
ambitious the league could get as they approach like the

1139
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,920
next TV deal. So so yeah, but I'll say yes,

1140
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:16,239
what do.

1141
00:52:16,199 --> 00:52:18,639
Speaker 2: You think I'm gonna say.

1142
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say yes, I have to, Like we've

1143
00:52:21,039 --> 00:52:23,840
been saying it's imminent until like seven years down the pipeline.

1144
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,960
But I don't know, like it even don't these expansion

1145
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:29,360
fees if you're the group that is buying the team,

1146
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:31,239
I guess if you have a large group, it's different.

1147
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:33,519
It just feels like so much money, like if they're

1148
00:52:33,559 --> 00:52:35,440
gonna rise to five billion, and you know you're probably

1149
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:37,920
gonna suck for a couple of years. Like, doesn't it

1150
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,960
become prohibitive to like buy an expansion team.

1151
00:52:41,119 --> 00:52:43,119
Speaker 3: Not if you can sell it for If you buy

1152
00:52:43,119 --> 00:52:44,800
it for five and you can sell it for six

1153
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:46,679
in like two years, you know, then.

1154
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 1: There there's gotta be a bubble on this, right, because

1155
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:52,039
it's like when we were purchasing a house at my

1156
00:52:52,079 --> 00:52:53,360
wife and I had a terrible time.

1157
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:54,199
Speaker 2: It was our decision.

1158
00:52:54,519 --> 00:52:57,679
Speaker 1: Don't feel bad for us, but like people constantly telling us,

1159
00:52:57,719 --> 00:53:02,400
like her, you know, someone my elder family members saying like,

1160
00:53:02,679 --> 00:53:05,519
we paid ex for our house in nineteen eighty and

1161
00:53:05,559 --> 00:53:07,760
it's worth like ten times that. And I would respond

1162
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,039
by saying, if my house ever ten x is in

1163
00:53:10,119 --> 00:53:12,760
value for what we paid for it, something has gone

1164
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,559
terribly wrong. And so like there has to be some

1165
00:53:15,599 --> 00:53:18,320
sort of a bullet these franchise We're not gonna get

1166
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,199
to a point where's like, ah, man, like the Hornets

1167
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,079
just sold for fifteen billion dollars, right, that's not gonna happen.

1168
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:23,800
Speaker 2: Why not?

1169
00:53:24,119 --> 00:53:25,840
Speaker 3: I mean that's just the way I Yeah, I guess,

1170
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,719
like I guess, positive momentum doesn't sustain forever. But it's like,

1171
00:53:29,119 --> 00:53:31,119
over a long enough timeline, as long as the NBA

1172
00:53:31,159 --> 00:53:36,199
continues to exist, Like I don't, I assume valuations will

1173
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:38,360
just keep rising. I don't know. Maybe that is naive.

1174
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:40,519
Maybe that is like the housing bubble thing. I don't know.

1175
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:44,800
Speaker 1: So because we haven't talked enough about numbers in this podcast,

1176
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:46,480
I feel like it's good to get into the salary

1177
00:53:46,519 --> 00:53:49,679
cap update. Bobby Mark's confirmed what we all expected, that

1178
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,239
it's going to rise by ten percent next year. So

1179
00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:54,920
the luxury tax will be set at one hundred and

1180
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,280
eighty seven point nine million. The first apron is at

1181
00:53:57,519 --> 00:54:00,760
one ninety five point nine million, and the second apron

1182
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,000
is at two hundred and seven point eight million. The

1183
00:54:04,079 --> 00:54:06,559
actual also included the actual salary cap number.

1184
00:54:06,599 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 2: There we're at what is it? One fifty eight nine?

1185
00:54:09,519 --> 00:54:12,079
I think is the number? Sounds about right? Sounds about right,

1186
00:54:12,599 --> 00:54:15,199
So this is what we expected. No surprises.

1187
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:18,119
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, since there's no surprises, who

1188
00:54:18,199 --> 00:54:21,800
becomes Non Celtics Division just now that we have these numbers.

1189
00:54:22,039 --> 00:54:24,719
I think it's between two teams. But I was who

1190
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,199
is the most interesting team to you this offseason? Now

1191
00:54:27,199 --> 00:54:30,039
that you know what the salary cap and the apron levels.

1192
00:54:30,039 --> 00:54:32,039
Speaker 3: Are you going to be well again? Since we kind

1193
00:54:32,039 --> 00:54:35,280
of expected this, I don't know how much like which

1194
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,320
new team has entered the chat on that front, because

1195
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:39,119
it's kind of the usual suspects, like one just has

1196
00:54:39,119 --> 00:54:41,840
to be Phoenix, right, Like how long Mattishbia seems like

1197
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:44,079
it's going to do this forever based on his most

1198
00:54:44,119 --> 00:54:46,800
recent comments, but like how long can you continue to

1199
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,360
go down this road? That's the first team that comes

1200
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,400
to mind. I hope they're one of the two year thinking.

1201
00:54:51,159 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: Of Yeah, I had the Nets as the other one,

1202
00:54:53,519 --> 00:54:55,920
just because there are other teams that could end.

1203
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 2: So the salary cap.

1204
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 1: Is coming in at one fifty four point four point

1205
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:03,760
six million, so the team that the Nets are just

1206
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,079
the only team that we know is going to have

1207
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:08,800
functional cap space, Like there are teams that could get there,

1208
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:10,840
but other moves need to be made, and then there

1209
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,679
for other teams. It's like you can create cap space,

1210
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,239
but now that the non taxpayer mid level exception is

1211
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:17,920
so high, it's sort of if you're not gonna have

1212
00:55:18,039 --> 00:55:19,920
twenty million dollars in cap space, you might as well

1213
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:22,360
figure out a way to operate as an over the

1214
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,079
cap team. So I'm looking at the nets and if

1215
00:55:25,119 --> 00:55:28,920
they're gonna have fifty plus million in cap space, they

1216
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:34,320
need to facilitate basically every single move. So and I

1217
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:38,239
we've talked about this. I believe they actively prioritize keeping

1218
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:38,920
that cap space.

1219
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:40,840
Speaker 2: When you look at how they went about their trade deadline.

1220
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 1: They took on no long term money in the Denis

1221
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:46,679
Shooter or dor Infinny Smith deals, and just based off

1222
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:50,039
what happened at the deadline, there were certainly opportunities for

1223
00:55:50,119 --> 00:55:53,039
them to add money to their books heading into next season,

1224
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:55,360
and so I'm just curious as to what their thought

1225
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:57,199
process is there with it. Are they gonna use it

1226
00:55:57,199 --> 00:56:00,280
to facilitate trades. Are they gonna, knowing that they don't

1227
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,199
control their first round draft pick after twenty twenty six,

1228
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:05,920
they're gonna say, Hey, maybe we go and we're gonna

1229
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:07,960
overbid on restricted free agents, or we're gonna try and

1230
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,400
make a trade ourselves depending on where we land in

1231
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:12,880
the lottery. I just find them super interesting, and that

1232
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:14,440
was always going to be the case. But I don't

1233
00:56:15,159 --> 00:56:18,239
I don't think everyone talks about their cap space. I

1234
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:22,119
don't think their active prioritization of it is receiving enough attention.

1235
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 3: Well, it's probably not, and for two reasons. One it's

1236
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:27,480
like they're the only team that has it, and two

1237
00:56:27,559 --> 00:56:31,440
it's like it's more interesting now because of like the

1238
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:33,599
dire straits that so many other teams are in, even

1239
00:56:33,639 --> 00:56:36,519
with the numbers going up, So like, do you the

1240
00:56:36,559 --> 00:56:39,119
free agent class sucks? Like that's that's been discussed plenty.

1241
00:56:39,159 --> 00:56:42,679
It's like Lebron is probably the best possible free agent.

1242
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,559
He's not leaving Kyrie Irving might have otherwise been the

1243
00:56:45,599 --> 00:56:48,000
second best, and he's got a torn acl Like there's

1244
00:56:48,039 --> 00:56:52,119
just not you know, the the glut of like, oh

1245
00:56:52,159 --> 00:56:54,079
my god, they can go get two of these guys

1246
00:56:54,159 --> 00:56:56,559
or like several high end free agents are gonna change teams.

1247
00:56:56,599 --> 00:56:58,639
Like that's just not where we are. So do you

1248
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:03,000
think in conjunction with teams like that we've talked about

1249
00:57:03,039 --> 00:57:05,360
like the Celtics, like the Suns, like the Bucks even

1250
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:08,079
and you can go down the line, are are the

1251
00:57:08,119 --> 00:57:13,039
nets just getting in position to be like a supercharged

1252
00:57:13,119 --> 00:57:15,280
version of what the Pistons were at the trade deadline,

1253
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:17,199
where it's like, hey, they got fourteen million to burn,

1254
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,440
they're guaranteed to be involved in stuff and pick up

1255
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:23,840
assets in the process. Is are the nets going with?

1256
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:27,920
Like will be your like you send send us your

1257
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,360
misfit toys or send us your guys that you just

1258
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:33,280
can't pay because you're trying to get out of the

1259
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:36,199
second apron or under the first or whatever, Like is

1260
00:57:36,239 --> 00:57:38,000
that what this is about? Because they do. They got

1261
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,920
their twenty six pick back too, right, So like they're

1262
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,360
not they shouldn't be in the business. Not that they

1263
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:45,519
can be because of what the market offers, but like

1264
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:47,760
in the business of like let's sign a fifty million

1265
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:50,119
dollar play Like that's not that can't be what this is?

1266
00:57:51,119 --> 00:57:54,719
Speaker 1: No, And I just you mentioned the free agency class stinks.

1267
00:57:55,079 --> 00:57:57,079
I don't even like looking at the restricted free agent

1268
00:57:57,159 --> 00:57:59,599
that it might be worthwhile for them to try and overpay.

1269
00:57:59,639 --> 00:58:01,559
Speaker 2: First, I don't like the name.

1270
00:58:01,639 --> 00:58:03,159
Speaker 1: Doesn't the first of all they have one of the

1271
00:58:03,159 --> 00:58:05,880
more interesting restricted free agents in cam Thomas, right, and

1272
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:07,639
then do you then go and try like do you?

1273
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:09,599
I could see Sean Marx trying to make Philly pay

1274
00:58:09,599 --> 00:58:11,400
through the teeth for Quinton Grimes.

1275
00:58:11,119 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 3: Like are they the Josh Giddy team? I don't think so.

1276
00:58:13,559 --> 00:58:15,039
Like it's they do need.

1277
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,199
Speaker 1: A floor general, so maybe, but the Bulls will match

1278
00:58:17,239 --> 00:58:19,599
that because it's the they could max out. Josh Giddy

1279
00:58:19,599 --> 00:58:21,679
in Chicago would probably god probably match it.

1280
00:58:22,079 --> 00:58:23,679
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm with you on that.

1281
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,519
Speaker 1: And it also sort of seems like I guess we've

1282
00:58:26,599 --> 00:58:28,159
yet to see it. Maybe if you want to go

1283
00:58:28,239 --> 00:58:30,119
back to the Karl Anthony Towns trade a little bit,

1284
00:58:30,159 --> 00:58:32,320
but again, immediately that didn't have as big of a

1285
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:36,239
bearing we haven't seen like the first or maybe was

1286
00:58:36,239 --> 00:58:39,920
Paul George the first major cap casualty of the second

1287
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:41,679
aproner where it's a team just.

1288
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:45,599
Speaker 2: Gets rid of a really good player. Yeah, like via trade.

1289
00:58:45,639 --> 00:58:47,679
Speaker 1: It certainly hasn't happened because they just let Paul George

1290
00:58:47,719 --> 00:58:49,360
leave a free agency and that ended up working out

1291
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:51,880
well for them. Could the Timberwolves? Like does this end

1292
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:54,280
with the tim or the Suns? Like, But I guess

1293
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,239
when you start talking about those players, it would be okay.

1294
00:58:57,519 --> 00:58:59,079
The Sons want to get rid of Bradley Beal. They're

1295
00:58:59,079 --> 00:59:01,800
not gonna send Kevin Durana out for nothing. The Wolves,

1296
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:04,159
it's who is the best play, Like, they're not gonna

1297
00:59:04,159 --> 00:59:06,639
cut Jade McDaniels to make room to keep Randall and

1298
00:59:06,679 --> 00:59:09,599
Reid and ni Keil Alexander Walker. I don't think the

1299
00:59:09,679 --> 00:59:12,159
Celtics with like Drew Holliday and Christops porzingis like, would

1300
00:59:12,159 --> 00:59:15,079
this be a situation where do the Nets just take

1301
00:59:15,119 --> 00:59:18,920
on Drew Holliday because the Celtics are sending them a

1302
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:20,480
pick or even nothing like.

1303
00:59:20,519 --> 00:59:22,119
Speaker 2: We've yet to see a move like that. I don't

1304
00:59:22,119 --> 00:59:23,000
know if we'll ever get there.

1305
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:25,920
Speaker 1: I think teams might plan their books accordingly moving forward,

1306
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:28,559
but it does feel like if you had to guess,

1307
00:59:28,559 --> 00:59:30,679
I guess is my question? Do you think it's more

1308
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:34,079
likely that they end up acquiring someone like their biggest

1309
00:59:34,119 --> 00:59:37,519
transaction is we acquired this player like a real player

1310
00:59:37,559 --> 00:59:39,239
and I'm not saying a star, but to help a

1311
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:40,960
team get out of the second apron or lower their

1312
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:44,440
tax bill whatever, or we facilitated this trade because Team

1313
00:59:44,639 --> 00:59:46,840
X is trying to navigate the aprons.

1314
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 3: I feel like the latter is more likely, but I

1315
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:53,360
think both are in play, and I do think this

1316
00:59:54,239 --> 00:59:59,599
those hypotheticals illustrate like a pretty interesting not an unintended consequence,

1317
00:59:59,639 --> 01:00:03,079
but in in consequence of all the aprons and stuff

1318
01:00:03,079 --> 01:00:06,480
in the new CBA, which is that like it creates

1319
01:00:06,519 --> 01:00:11,159
a situation where teams just just I'll try to be

1320
01:00:11,199 --> 01:00:13,559
specific about it so it makes sense, but like just

1321
01:00:13,719 --> 01:00:16,320
you will use the Celtics like they're in a position,

1322
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:18,079
as we already outline, where like they're gonna have draft

1323
01:00:18,079 --> 01:00:19,679
picks frozen or bumped to the end of the first round,

1324
01:00:19,719 --> 01:00:21,719
and they're gonna have all these resources just like taken

1325
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:25,079
away until they get cheaper, until they get below this

1326
01:00:25,079 --> 01:00:28,280
this certain level of spending. And it's like, so if

1327
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:33,320
you're so like the sort the negotiating positions are just

1328
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:36,639
are just different, because it's not just that the Celtics

1329
01:00:36,679 --> 01:00:40,239
are we're saving x amount of money by trading player

1330
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:42,599
y to the Nets who can take them on, who

1331
01:00:42,679 --> 01:00:45,360
can afford that. It's like we're saving x amount of money,

1332
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:47,800
we're opening up this pick, we're getting access to this

1333
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:50,440
roster exception, we're getting all these other benefits that like

1334
01:00:51,119 --> 01:00:53,599
don't affect the Nets at all, But it just means that,

1335
01:00:53,679 --> 01:00:57,920
like the Nets can ask for more because the Celtics

1336
01:00:57,960 --> 01:00:59,800
are now the Celtics are a bad example because they

1337
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:02,280
don't a bunch of more to give. But it's like

1338
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:05,760
all these extra benefits that the Celtics drive by making

1339
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:09,559
a trade, like the Nets can lean harder on teams

1340
01:01:09,639 --> 01:01:12,079
like that because they're like, we're the only game in town.

1341
01:01:12,119 --> 01:01:14,679
We're the only way you can get access to all

1342
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:16,639
this other stuff that you need to build a good

1343
01:01:16,679 --> 01:01:19,800
team or build like whatever. So like I do think

1344
01:01:20,119 --> 01:01:24,159
Brooklyn has been smart in positioning itself as like a

1345
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:27,760
uniquely powerful like get out of jail free card or

1346
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:30,400
facilitator or whatever you want to call them, because so

1347
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:33,119
many of these other teams are gonna look at themselves

1348
01:01:33,159 --> 01:01:35,559
and say, like, man, we are so inflexible. And it's

1349
01:01:35,599 --> 01:01:37,760
like it's not just the money savings we want. We

1350
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:40,239
want to be able to run our team like all

1351
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:43,079
the other teams do. And that's got like added value

1352
01:01:43,119 --> 01:01:43,440
to it, you know.

1353
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 2: What I mean.

1354
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 3: Like it does it positions Brooklyn specifically in a really

1355
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:49,880
like strong spot this summer.

1356
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:53,800
Speaker 1: I also wonder how many agents will bring their free

1357
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:56,000
agents and that's like, hey, give us sort of the

1358
01:01:56,039 --> 01:01:58,360
balloon payment deal over a year or two because just

1359
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,400
the market is because I don't know how many teams

1360
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:02,079
are going to use their mid level exceptions. When you're

1361
01:02:02,119 --> 01:02:04,239
looking at the non tax payer mid level exceptions, they

1362
01:02:04,239 --> 01:02:06,159
can use them as trade exceptions now, and so it

1363
01:02:06,159 --> 01:02:07,639
feels like more teams will hold on to them or

1364
01:02:07,679 --> 01:02:10,400
actually use them as as trade exceptions. So yeah, you're

1365
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:12,880
right that I think Brooklyn was was really smart. Here

1366
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:14,960
anything else, just sort of on that before we get

1367
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:15,800
to our last item.

1368
01:02:16,239 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 3: No, let's hit it.

1369
01:02:17,559 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 1: I think I might be intrigued by this more than

1370
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:21,920
you are, because we talked about it before we started.

1371
01:02:22,199 --> 01:02:25,280
But Mark Cuban keeps going on the media tour of

1372
01:02:25,559 --> 01:02:28,159
I would not trade. Luka Nancic, do you want to

1373
01:02:28,199 --> 01:02:30,679
read us the quote that's making the rounds.

1374
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:34,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, the quote the money quote is from Cuban quote.

1375
01:02:34,159 --> 01:02:36,760
If I had any influence, the trade wouldn't happen. I

1376
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:40,039
was just as dumbfounded, dumbfounded as everybody else. After I

1377
01:02:40,079 --> 01:02:43,119
sold the Mavericks, the new owner, Patrick Dumont, decided that Okay,

1378
01:02:43,159 --> 01:02:46,239
in Nico we trust, so here we are. That's from

1379
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:49,079
Mark Cuban on the Your Mom's Basement podcast at tip

1380
01:02:49,119 --> 01:02:49,840
to Kirk Henderson.

1381
01:02:50,079 --> 01:02:51,559
Speaker 1: I don't know, by the way, I've never heard of

1382
01:02:51,559 --> 01:02:53,320
that podcast before, but I like the name.

1383
01:02:53,599 --> 01:02:59,639
Speaker 3: It's a solid name. No notes. Yeah, So, like, we've

1384
01:02:59,679 --> 01:03:01,679
talked this a little bit, and so give me give

1385
01:03:01,679 --> 01:03:03,280
me your your take on it first.

1386
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:06,920
Speaker 1: I just I don't want to look friend of the

1387
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:10,440
show Mark Cuban because he follows us on the socials.

1388
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:12,400
But actually, I don't want to be too critical here.

1389
01:03:12,679 --> 01:03:16,199
I just don't understand how someone in Mark Cuban's position

1390
01:03:16,719 --> 01:03:20,679
could either actually believe or express expects us to believe

1391
01:03:21,239 --> 01:03:25,000
that he really believed he was going to stay on

1392
01:03:25,679 --> 01:03:28,400
as the head of basketball operations without having that in

1393
01:03:28,519 --> 01:03:29,679
any sort of writing.

1394
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I can spend my take in a

1395
01:03:34,400 --> 01:03:38,719
way that is charitable to him, because I like, you

1396
01:03:40,119 --> 01:03:45,800
really struggle to accept someone that is as smart and

1397
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:49,519
has been as successful as Mark Cuban kind of taking

1398
01:03:49,559 --> 01:03:53,039
it on faith that like this new ownership group was like, yeah,

1399
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:55,159
we're of course, like we don't need to put this

1400
01:03:55,239 --> 01:03:56,360
down anywhere.

1401
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 2: But operators of all people too, right, yeah, right.

1402
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 3: Like you're definitely still in charge of this, like not

1403
01:04:01,519 --> 01:04:03,679
a problem. Let's just like well Kit, And like for

1404
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:06,559
him to take that on faith, it's just like, I

1405
01:04:06,639 --> 01:04:09,599
don't my spin on this is I don't believe he

1406
01:04:09,719 --> 01:04:12,800
actually ever thought that he was gonna stay in a

1407
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:17,760
decision making capacity and he's I can't get inside his head,

1408
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:20,079
Like I don't even though I just did, I can't

1409
01:04:20,079 --> 01:04:22,599
get deeper inside his head and say, like, and the

1410
01:04:22,679 --> 01:04:25,599
reason he's coming out and saying all these things about

1411
01:04:25,639 --> 01:04:28,000
like well if I had if I had had any say,

1412
01:04:28,079 --> 01:04:30,239
this wouldn't have happened is like, I don't know, maybe

1413
01:04:30,519 --> 01:04:34,360
maybe he feels bad for what MAVs fans find, for

1414
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:36,519
the position Mass fans find themselves in now, And it's

1415
01:04:36,559 --> 01:04:39,719
like that's a pretty yeah, Like you'd want to console

1416
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:41,559
them by saying like, hey, you know, I would have

1417
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:45,039
loved to have helped, but I was double crossed.

1418
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 1: Like I don't so much as seeking absolution for someff

1419
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:48,559
like the.

1420
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, in some ways this is his fault because

1421
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:55,159
this wouldn't happened if he hadn't sold the team. It's yeah,

1422
01:04:55,199 --> 01:04:58,920
so I just don't it's it's a weird backhanded way

1423
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:01,440
to credit him. But but I don't believe he ever

1424
01:05:01,559 --> 01:05:05,760
thought that absent a clear agreement, he would just continue

1425
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:08,920
to be allowed to make personnel like basketball decisions Like

1426
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:10,079
that doesn't square for me.

1427
01:05:10,519 --> 01:05:14,079
Speaker 1: No, I put more value in what he said about

1428
01:05:14,119 --> 01:05:15,719
how either he and when you look at like the

1429
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:19,599
MAVs reluctance to play a luxury tax in like over

1430
01:05:19,639 --> 01:05:21,679
the years, and then him talking about how he didn't

1431
01:05:21,679 --> 01:05:23,440
want to be a real estate developer, and it feels

1432
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:26,000
like that's increasingly what en me. I buy that part

1433
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:28,320
and then also cash out, Like look at the money

1434
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:29,920
he got compared to what he paid for the team.

1435
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:32,559
What I really struggle with here too, And like, if

1436
01:05:32,559 --> 01:05:35,639
you're gonna spin it this way, the in Niko we

1437
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:38,199
trust thing, who hired Nico Harrison?

1438
01:05:38,599 --> 01:05:40,639
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, let's gloss over that one.

1439
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:42,719
Speaker 1: So I'm just like you you were the one that

1440
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:45,480
said in Nico we trust, right, So I just by

1441
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:48,880
the way Nico Harrison before Luka Dacis traded the executive

1442
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:49,559
of the year running.

1443
01:05:49,599 --> 01:05:51,039
Speaker 3: He was doing great, right, he was.

1444
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:54,239
Speaker 1: He was doing great until he wasn't. So I just

1445
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:58,199
and then also just I don't know, like I can't

1446
01:05:58,199 --> 01:06:00,880
buy this. I guess just in the past where it

1447
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:04,559
feels like, oh he is there a level of real ignorance.

1448
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:08,400
Is it inadvertent ignorance or selective ignorance because you look

1449
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:10,639
at the culture of the MAVs, like that whole the

1450
01:06:10,679 --> 01:06:15,480
sexual misconduct allegations from years ago that was pent up

1451
01:06:15,519 --> 01:06:17,679
over what it was like two decades or something, and

1452
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:20,079
some of these other hires that have gone awry and

1453
01:06:20,119 --> 01:06:23,119
the way that Rick Carlisle exited or just like some

1454
01:06:23,159 --> 01:06:27,280
of the like the staffing stuff. It just I it

1455
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:30,559
just makes me uneasy. Here, I understand I do it now?

1456
01:06:30,599 --> 01:06:31,960
Do I think if he was running the team that

1457
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:34,320
they would have traded Luka Doncic had Nico brought him

1458
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:34,760
this trade?

1459
01:06:35,079 --> 01:06:36,280
Speaker 2: No? Absolutely not.

1460
01:06:36,559 --> 01:06:39,119
Speaker 1: But I don't know that you can use this under

1461
01:06:39,119 --> 01:06:40,880
the guys like, well, yeah, we would have kept Luca

1462
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:43,960
if it wasn't for the Dumonts and Nico Harrison, Like

1463
01:06:44,039 --> 01:06:47,079
you played a part in this, whether you want to

1464
01:06:47,079 --> 01:06:48,519
say it or not. And even if you don't want

1465
01:06:48,559 --> 01:06:50,239
to say you played a part by selling the team,

1466
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:54,280
I just don't. I don't understand what the point of

1467
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:56,159
positioning it like this right.

1468
01:06:56,039 --> 01:06:59,679
Speaker 3: Is well, and like it does feel like he's I

1469
01:06:59,719 --> 01:07:01,599
think you may be onto it where it's like he's

1470
01:07:01,639 --> 01:07:04,880
trying to absolve himself of some blame here for what's happened.

1471
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:06,079
Speaker 2: But also like.

1472
01:07:07,519 --> 01:07:11,000
Speaker 3: If you had waited, suppose he owned the Mavericks today

1473
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:13,480
and we just spent a lot of time talking about

1474
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:17,199
the Celtics going for six billion dollars, Like he's how

1475
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:20,239
much more is he getting if he sells the MAVs today,

1476
01:07:20,639 --> 01:07:23,719
like at least another billion dollars probably, right, Like, I

1477
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:29,320
don't know. So that ties back to like it didn't

1478
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:32,360
feel like he got a ton in selling him when

1479
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:34,719
he did, and it felt hasty, and it felt potentially

1480
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:37,360
motivated by like I need money now or I got

1481
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:39,320
to get out of this before this news store. I

1482
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:43,960
totally wild speculation, but it definitely like I'm less sympathetic

1483
01:07:45,079 --> 01:07:48,480
because it did feel like he sold to certainly like

1484
01:07:48,559 --> 01:07:53,840
suboptimal owners at a suboptimal price in like a weirdly hasty,

1485
01:07:54,199 --> 01:07:55,519
surprising kind of way.

1486
01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:58,679
Speaker 2: Right, I would not. I don't blame him for the

1487
01:07:58,719 --> 01:07:59,719
Luga Nanchis trade.

1488
01:08:00,119 --> 01:08:02,920
Speaker 1: Don't think he needs to in like somehow that oh

1489
01:08:03,039 --> 01:08:05,519
I was supposed to run the team and this wouldn't

1490
01:08:05,519 --> 01:08:07,599
have happened if you didn't have it in writing and

1491
01:08:07,599 --> 01:08:08,880
as you said, if this was supposed to.

1492
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:11,199
Speaker 2: Be but as a as a.

1493
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:16,079
Speaker 1: Licensed lawyer, like at a deal of this scale, how,

1494
01:08:16,199 --> 01:08:19,359
I just there's no way that he actually could have

1495
01:08:19,399 --> 01:08:20,159
believed that, right with.

1496
01:08:20,239 --> 01:08:22,319
Speaker 2: I don't think he's sort of just written agreement, correct, I.

1497
01:08:22,319 --> 01:08:26,119
Speaker 3: Don't think so, Yeah, I just it's I don't It's like, yeah,

1498
01:08:26,159 --> 01:08:27,680
I don't know what else to say other than that

1499
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:30,079
just seems highly unlikely to me with that.

1500
01:08:30,279 --> 01:08:32,279
Speaker 2: I just that's just it's something that's bothered me. So

1501
01:08:32,279 --> 01:08:34,359
I figured we could cover here. Are you ready? Do

1502
01:08:34,399 --> 01:08:35,640
you have anything else you want to talk about it?

1503
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:36,680
You ready to take us out of here?

1504
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:38,720
Speaker 3: I'm good. I'm glad we got through this, though. There's

1505
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:41,359
a bunch of uncovered stories so far that we hadn't waited.

1506
01:08:41,399 --> 01:08:43,960
Speaker 2: What about how Steph Curry's hips? Do they lie or

1507
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:44,359
do they not?

1508
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:47,920
Speaker 3: Oh? Man, well, I mean like his hips probably are

1509
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:51,159
very truthful as Pelvis, I don't know about how much

1510
01:08:51,199 --> 01:08:54,119
it's lying or not. I really thought he'd be back

1511
01:08:54,119 --> 01:08:57,439
for that Miami game and they needed him. Hey, newsplash,

1512
01:08:57,520 --> 01:08:59,720
Jimmy Butler's cool and all Warriors don't have stuff they're

1513
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:04,800
drawing dead. So that's a nice reaffirmation of that. I

1514
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:07,279
think that's going to cover it though. Thanks everybody for watching,

1515
01:09:07,279 --> 01:09:10,560
for listening. Remember, please rate, review, subscribe, check us out

1516
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:14,039
on YouTube. I did ask a pointed bucks question. I'm

1517
01:09:14,039 --> 01:09:17,239
hoping for responses, either on YouTube or in our discord

1518
01:09:17,319 --> 01:09:19,520
or wherever else you'd like to get in touch with us.

1519
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:23,279
Join our discord links for that in YouTube and podcast description.

1520
01:09:24,159 --> 01:09:26,199
If you're in our discord, you can partake of the

1521
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:31,520
new and revamped guests a player operation which involved spreadsheets

1522
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:35,439
and invite only. That's probably not true, but anyway, get

1523
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:37,079
involved there. We're going to do some more guest players,

1524
01:09:37,079 --> 01:09:39,800
hopefully this week, and I think that's going to do it.

1525
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:42,560
Shouts Frank Millikina. Apologies, Jared Allen