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Oh hey, twenty twenty six Alley 26 00:01:13.480 --> 00:01:16.239 here with a well deserved encore of an episode that 27 00:01:16.359 --> 00:01:19.439 I love. Perfect timing. Also for Black History Month, And 28 00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:22.400 if you go to alleywar dot com slash ologieslash Black 29 00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:25.439 History Month, you'll find a wonderful catalog full of great 30 00:01:25.480 --> 00:01:28.480 ologists and all of the causes that they chose for 31 00:01:28.560 --> 00:01:30.799 us to support in their name. So we'll link that 32 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:35.640 in the show notes. But onto this chat that I love. Okay, hey, 33 00:01:36.200 --> 00:01:40.159 it's your fourth cousin twice removed. Ali Ward back with 34 00:01:40.280 --> 00:01:44.280 a familial historical episode of Ologies. So you were here 35 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:47.359 because people made babies with each other, and out of 36 00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:50.200 all of the game eats, in all of the conats, 37 00:01:50.599 --> 00:01:54.480 you became a collection of molecules, and you're suspended in 38 00:01:54.560 --> 00:01:58.920 a web of family. Even a cockroach technically has grandparents 39 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:02.400 and cousin. Is that weird? Your cat might have an uncle, 40 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:06.120 And if you have children, gaze at them. They may 41 00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:10.360 have children who have children, And then those children's might 42 00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:13.319 not even know your damn name. They'll just know you're dead. 43 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:16.120 But before we get into it, first, a quick thank 44 00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:19.479 you to the select slice of listeners who are also patrons. 45 00:02:19.759 --> 00:02:21.960 You know who you are. You make the show possible. 46 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:24.039 Thank you to everyone spreading the word with your mouth 47 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:27.759 or by wearing my face on your chest via ologiesmerge 48 00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:30.280 dot com. Also thanks to everyone who boosts the show 49 00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:33.120 for others to see by hitting subscribe and by rating 50 00:02:33.159 --> 00:02:36.520 it and telling friends I read all your reviews, such 51 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:39.319 as this Fresh twenty twenty six to one from Birds 52 00:02:39.319 --> 00:02:42.120 for Brains, who wrote not a single uninteresting episode in 53 00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:45.240 the bunch, not to mention life changing Birds for Brains, 54 00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:48.560 thank you for letting us change your life. Okay, genealogy 55 00:02:48.759 --> 00:02:51.960 the first topic ever to not be an ology. Look 56 00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:56.080 at it, genealogy? What is this? The Berenstain bears, it's 57 00:02:56.120 --> 00:02:59.479 an allergy? What the heck man? So genealogy comes from 58 00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:02.280 the root world gena meaning to give birth to you, 59 00:03:02.439 --> 00:03:06.759 like genesis, and genealogy is not the study of genetics 60 00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:10.840 and how DNA works. That's just called genetics. So this 61 00:03:11.039 --> 00:03:14.360 was news to me. Now, genealogy is the tracing of 62 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:18.879 family origins, and in Old English it was called folk talou, 63 00:03:19.039 --> 00:03:22.319 meaning folk tales, but the allergy and not ology is 64 00:03:22.319 --> 00:03:25.719 because the O analogies is borrowed from the first word anyway. 65 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:29.639 So this week's alogist, I suppose, has been in this 66 00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:34.479 field for three decades, starting as a personal passion that 67 00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:37.840 just consumed him into making it a job. And I 68 00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:40.319 was introduced to him by someone who worked to publish 69 00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:43.919 his latest book, which is called sixteen nineteen twenty Africans, 70 00:03:44.199 --> 00:03:47.800 and I immediately ordered the book. I was so happy 71 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:49.599 he was down to pop into a sound booth in 72 00:03:49.639 --> 00:03:53.240 Portland to chat with me about his passion tracing family 73 00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:58.599 histories and chasing down records, and also about mystery novels 74 00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:03.240 and capes. Questions you should ask your relatives us history 75 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:06.080 and how we treat the past, how to heal from 76 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:11.919 our individual legacies, the joy of cracking a case, DNA tests, technology, 77 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:16.759 brunch revelations, and how everywhere you look there's family. So 78 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:19.759 pull up a chair and absorb the stories of two 79 00:04:19.879 --> 00:04:23.879 time author Total Peach, distant relative to Tom Hanks and 80 00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:47.000 perhaps your relative as well, genealogist Stephen Hanks. I'm sure 81 00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:49.040 you get that with a lot of Steven's. 82 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:50.720 I do I do. My name is show with a 83 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:53.319 pH as you probably noticed them. But when it was 84 00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:56.439 funny when I introduced myself, they say, Steve. Okay, Steve, 85 00:04:56.519 --> 00:04:59.199 nice to reach you. Yeah, Steve, Steven. 86 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:04.720 And now you are a genealogist. Yes, and you've been 87 00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:06.399 a genealogist for quite a while. 88 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:09.639 Now, yeah. I started like in eighty nine. Yeah, but 89 00:05:09.720 --> 00:05:14.040 I was like, God, how old was I? I was, oh, 90 00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:16.839 about thirty years old. And that's I got the bug. 91 00:05:17.560 --> 00:05:20.199 I was over at my dad's house that day and 92 00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:25.319 summer July, and he was watching the baseball game and 93 00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:27.519 he handed me this letter that he got from a 94 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:30.600 cousin in Kansas, and he says, read this. And of 95 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:34.600 course I didn't know anything about my family's history, you know, 96 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:37.319 I'm just a kid growing up for then, and so 97 00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:40.680 he shows me this letter. I started reading. It's an 98 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:43.920 obituary of a newspaper, and all these relatives and names 99 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:47.160 are listed in this obituary. And saw my dad's side 100 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:49.319 of the family, and I just said, wow, I don't 101 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:51.800 know who these people are. And that's what that's what 102 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:53.399 got HA started. Right there. I said, I got to 103 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:54.800 find out who these people are. I got to find 104 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:57.839 out about the history of my family. And so that's 105 00:05:57.839 --> 00:05:59.959 how it got started eighty nine. 106 00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:03.160 Yeah, and what was the first thing you did? Back 107 00:06:03.199 --> 00:06:07.079 in eighty nine, we had libraries and microfiche and the 108 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:11.720 Dewey dustmal system microfilm readers. 109 00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:16.920 Yeah, the microfish totally totally, no Internet, no clicking of 110 00:06:16.920 --> 00:06:20.519 the mouse. You know. It was old school all the way. 111 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:24.240 And old school ways involved making the two to three 112 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:28.759 hour drive from Portland to Seattle's National Archives and that 113 00:06:28.839 --> 00:06:32.600 houses fifty eight thousand cubic feet of records. That's a 114 00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:37.000 lot of records all about the Pacific Northwest for Oregon, Idaho, 115 00:06:37.480 --> 00:06:41.360 Washington and now Alaska. But just in the past few weeks, 116 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:45.319 this is breaking news. Historians are rightly poed that the 117 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:48.879 government wants to sell this building because the techie Seattle 118 00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:51.519 location has become so valuable, and a building sale would 119 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:54.600 mean moving all of those records of the Pacific Northwest 120 00:06:54.759 --> 00:06:59.600 to Missouri or California, making the journey for people much longer. 121 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:03.240 Let's face it, mostly impossible, and no, you can't just 122 00:07:03.319 --> 00:07:05.879 jump on the information super Highway. A lot of those 123 00:07:05.959 --> 00:07:10.439 ledgers and records haven't even been digitized. So genealogy research 124 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:14.680 like family trees, still has its roots in the past. 125 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:17.959 Well, when I started getting interested in this field and 126 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:20.279 wanting to learn more, I had to learn the rules 127 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:24.399 of the game and how the professional genealogists did it. 128 00:07:24.439 --> 00:07:29.000 And so I learned about census records, tax records, you know, 129 00:07:29.240 --> 00:07:32.800 land deeds and all that sort of thing, courthouse records, 130 00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:35.639 and just on and on and on museums. So I said, well, 131 00:07:35.720 --> 00:07:37.879 let me start with the census records. That sounds pretty 132 00:07:37.879 --> 00:07:40.720 easy enough. You know, every ten years they have a census, 133 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:44.040 and of course they put a privacy restriction on the 134 00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:47.800 first seventy years they release it to the public. So 135 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:52.240 the most recent census that was available to me at 136 00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:56.000 that time was, I believe the nineteen twenty census. Yeah, 137 00:07:56.079 --> 00:08:01.600 nineteen twenty. But they had no National Archives branch in Portland. 138 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:03.879 I could either fly to Washington, d c. While that 139 00:08:04.519 --> 00:08:06.720 probably wasn't gonna work, or they said you could go 140 00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:09.560 to Seattle, Washington. They have a branch there. So I 141 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:12.360 would just take off whenever I could and just drive 142 00:08:12.439 --> 00:08:16.319 up three hours up to Seattle and just spend time 143 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:19.000 looking at the old microfilm reels and putting the old 144 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:22.879 microfilm on, cranking the machine, and boom, there they were 145 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:27.439 I found my grandparents in Manhattan, Kansas. I started getting 146 00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:32.000 excited in nineteen twenty. And the genealogists rule, this is 147 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:36.080 the genealogist rural alley, is work your way back from 148 00:08:36.159 --> 00:08:39.080 what you know to what you don't know. That's the rule. 149 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:42.399 Never do it the other way around. Never go to 150 00:08:42.559 --> 00:08:44.120 what you don't know and try to work your way 151 00:08:44.200 --> 00:08:46.639 up to the present because you don't know who those 152 00:08:46.639 --> 00:08:48.759 people are in the past, right, so you don't know 153 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:50.919 what journey, what paths you're going to be on. So 154 00:08:51.039 --> 00:08:53.200 start with what you know and work your way back. 155 00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:55.720 So I found my grandparents' names. I said, okay, I'm 156 00:08:55.720 --> 00:08:58.799 on the right track, and just started working my way back. 157 00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:01.440 But it started getting tricky as you get, you know, 158 00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:05.519 further back in time. And that's what even got me 159 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:08.960 more excited, because you know, I'm like a detective, you know, 160 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:11.360 like the Perry mat said, you know, yeah, you know, 161 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:14.840 just start looking under the rocks. And so went to 162 00:09:14.919 --> 00:09:18.279 nineteen ten, a nineteen hundred census, and this was really 163 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:23.039 getting exciting. I finally was able to locate my great grandparents, 164 00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:25.879 knew their names, and it just blew me away, you know, 165 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:29.840 found him in Kansas, and found out that they had 166 00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:35.600 moved to Kansas from Mississippi. And the thing about that 167 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:40.759 experience was they came from Mississippi under a different set 168 00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:43.320 of living as you as you know where I'm coming from, 169 00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:45.960 you know, slavery, you know, kind of the slavery thing. 170 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:49.240 So that was a big chakaru. 171 00:09:49.320 --> 00:09:53.159 But Stevens first book was twenty thirteen's A Key Tree, 172 00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:58.039 A Descendants Quest for his slave ancestors on the Eskridge Plantations, 173 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:00.639 and he has such an amazing way of writing about 174 00:10:00.679 --> 00:10:04.720 the process of genealogy through his own narrative and how 175 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:08.480 one discovery can kind of ignite another the. 176 00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:10.159 Further you go back in time. I was able to 177 00:10:10.240 --> 00:10:14.120 find them on the eighteen eighty census and the eighteen 178 00:10:14.200 --> 00:10:16.720 ninety census, I guess was burned in a fire in 179 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:20.279 nineteen twenty one. So that's yeah, that's something that all genealogists, 180 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:28.240 if you're studying Greek, Italian, whatever you're you know, ancestry 181 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:30.519 is that's something that you have to live with. The 182 00:10:30.559 --> 00:10:33.000 eighteen ninety census, it's gone forever. Wow. 183 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:37.120 So yeah, Stephen told me that through the eighteen seventy 184 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:40.840 census he discovered that his grandparents lived in a little 185 00:10:40.840 --> 00:10:46.159 town called Duckhill, Mississippi, hailing from what is now Montgomery County, 186 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:51.440 the same place that Oprah Winfrey's family is from. Small world, 187 00:10:51.639 --> 00:10:54.000 but big deal, given that Oprah Winfrey is like the 188 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:56.759 closest thing this country has had to a queen. 189 00:10:57.080 --> 00:11:01.000 There they were eighteen seventy June. Something. I couldn't believe it. 190 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:04.240 I couldn't believe it. There they were never met, these 191 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:09.039 family members, but these were my ancestors. And so when 192 00:11:09.080 --> 00:11:11.440 I got to that point, I was just in hebit, 193 00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:13.960 you know. But the problem is, you know, you going 194 00:11:14.000 --> 00:11:17.080 beyond eighteen seventy is the trick for you know, as 195 00:11:17.080 --> 00:11:21.080 far as African American genealogy. But I enjoyed, you know, 196 00:11:21.159 --> 00:11:23.919 doing it for I've had many different clients and many 197 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:26.799 different people just even friends that I've done it for, 198 00:11:27.399 --> 00:11:33.559 all types of different Italian, Greece, so forth. So it's exciting. 199 00:11:34.639 --> 00:11:39.879 And you've established yourself as a genealogist. You've written multiple books, 200 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:45.120 you've consulted on multiple documentaries, and you know, going back 201 00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:48.159 a little bit to your own history, were you always 202 00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:53.320 someone who liked mystery novels, like detective novels? What did yeah, 203 00:11:53.879 --> 00:11:55.440 was that going to be in your genes? 204 00:11:55.559 --> 00:11:58.159 Oh my god, Sherlock Holmes. I can remember as a 205 00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:01.279 kid just staying up late at night and just watching 206 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:04.000 the Sherlock Holmes with who who was the guy that 207 00:12:04.080 --> 00:12:06.600 was playing that? But yeah, you know it was, it 208 00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:08.519 was It always had to be this one actor that 209 00:12:08.519 --> 00:12:10.600 played Charlote Holmes. He was the one that I fell 210 00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:12.240 in love with. I can't remember his name or off 211 00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:13.480 the bat, but I'll look it out. 212 00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:16.879 My guess is that this is Ronald Howard, who, in 213 00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:21.600 nearly forty episodes of Detective Capers portrayed the caped icon. 214 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:23.000 What are you doing anyway? 215 00:12:23.799 --> 00:12:27.879 Research research ps side note, I just learned that that 216 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:30.759 cape is called an Inverness cape, and it's named after 217 00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:35.440 a rainy region in the Scottish Highlands where Scottish wear 218 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:39.840 this sleeveless cloak thing because it allows for easier access 219 00:12:39.879 --> 00:12:44.320 to their sporan, which is their long, hairy FannyPack coin 220 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:48.240 purse that hangs over their chunk area. Anyway, Yes, Sherlock 221 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:51.360 Holmes loved a good problem to solve, and on the 222 00:12:51.399 --> 00:12:53.679 topic of clever Scots. 223 00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:56.360 But I love loved Tim Sherlock was was my guy. 224 00:12:56.440 --> 00:12:58.200 And then of course you know James bond I mean, 225 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:00.399 who who's not gonna like James bond On? You know, 226 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:03.480 the Sean Connery. I know, I love you James, but yeah, 227 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:08.519 I totally was the into the mysteries and the detectives 228 00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:09.000 early on. 229 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:13.080 Definitely, for sure, after you were handed this obituary and 230 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:15.480 you started driving up to Seattle to look in the archives. 231 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:17.840 You mentioned you're in your thirties. Have you been able 232 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:23.639 to balance genealogy with UH, with other careers or did 233 00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:26.120 at some point did you have to decide what you 234 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:28.240 were going to dedicate your career to. 235 00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:30.120 Well, you know, that's a good question, and I did 236 00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:32.960 have to kind of juggle back and forth because I had, 237 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:37.440 you know, the passion and the drive to wanna be 238 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:40.519 a genealogists. I tried to start up my own business. 239 00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:42.879 Actually I did start my own business. It was called 240 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:49.120 Genealogical Networking Services. And I went back to school and 241 00:13:49.399 --> 00:13:52.200 learned how to do computers because I didn't know that, 242 00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:56.320 and so I started up my own little entrepreneurship and 243 00:13:56.440 --> 00:13:59.840 I was getting requests all across the country. It was amazing, 244 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:03.240 it was amazing. I still have those those inquiry letters 245 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:05.559 to this day, and they were all over the country, 246 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:07.480 people asking me to do this, that, can you look 247 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:10.559 this up Native American? Just anything you could think of, 248 00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:15.120 and I had fun doing it. The only problem was 249 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:18.840 people had a tendency to not want to pay you, 250 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:22.279 but they want you to do the research first and 251 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:25.840 then okay, now send me a payment. So it got 252 00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:27.679 to be kind of hard to make a living out 253 00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:30.320 of it, but I always had the passion for it, 254 00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:32.519 so I had to do other type of work just 255 00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:34.360 to you know, pay the bills type of thing. But 256 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:39.080 finally I was able to just recently, actually five years ago, 257 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:42.879 I finally got a really nice job that goes right 258 00:14:42.919 --> 00:14:45.879 along with my genealogy. I'm working for the school district 259 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:50.000 here and yeah, I'm a record's clerk and it's amazing 260 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:54.279 how many people come in walk in or email or 261 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:56.639 phone they want to do research about this, that and 262 00:14:56.720 --> 00:14:58.679 the other. And that's just right up my alley doing 263 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:01.919 research and ties right into the genealogy. So for the 264 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:05.440 first time, after so many years, I finally got you know, 265 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:10.639 they both together, genealogy and just doing historical research, you know, 266 00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:12.200 in local research. So it's cool. 267 00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:15.320 Oh, that's amazing, and you know. I know that you 268 00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:20.080 chronicled these discoveries that you made with your family in 269 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:24.120 your first book, A key tree, and yeah, yeah, I 270 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:26.600 would love to hear more. I know it's the Aki 271 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:28.919 tree or a key tree. You pronounced it either way. 272 00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:31.600 I know, I know I say I say a key 273 00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:33.399 tree that I've heard people say no Aki. 274 00:15:33.559 --> 00:15:35.639 You know, I know I wasn't good sure, so I 275 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:37.679 just messed it up either way. 276 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:41.200 But I guess it's my auntie who she just reacally 277 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:44.440 passed away in Saint Louis, Missouri. But she is my own, 278 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:47.399 my mother's sister, and she would take trips to Jamaica, 279 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:50.879 you know, as often as she could. And so she 280 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:53.000 she pronounced it aki and she sent me a picture 281 00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:54.639 of it, and I put it in the book. 282 00:15:55.159 --> 00:15:57.600 So the Aki tree or a key tree, depending on 283 00:15:57.639 --> 00:16:00.240 how I see it is native to West Africa, and 284 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:04.399 it bears this red fruit that in due time yawns 285 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:08.639 open to reveal dark black, glossy seeds and this yellow, 286 00:16:08.759 --> 00:16:12.720 spongy flesh. And it's popular in Caribbean dishes. But if 287 00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:15.120 you try to eat that sucker before it's ripe, your 288 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:19.360 impatience might get rewarded with the very self explanatory Jamaican 289 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:23.080 vomiting sickness. Anyways, let it ripen and then cook it 290 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:25.919 with cod and it's just supposed to be heaven on earth. Now. 291 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:30.000 Stephen's book The Aqi Tree has cipia toned photographs of 292 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:34.039 his ancestors and the silhouette of this tree behind them. 293 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:37.120 And he told me that his first book was narrative 294 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:40.799 fiction based on his family experiences and inspired by books 295 00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:43.840 like Alex Haley's Roots, but later he revised it to 296 00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:44.960 be purely nonfiction. 297 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:48.000 It took about ten years to do the research on that. 298 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:51.879 And my whole goal when I first started out was 299 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:57.679 just to learn about my family on both my sides, 300 00:16:58.039 --> 00:17:01.240 my father and mother's side, trying to like go all 301 00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:04.240 the way to to Africa or anything like that, just 302 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:07.400 just learning about the family. But every time I would 303 00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:10.880 go further back in history, I kept getting excited. I'm like, 304 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:12.440 how far back can I go? 305 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:13.200 Yeah? 306 00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:16.000 This is getting to be interesting now. I mean because 307 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:19.960 as we all know, you know, Abraham Lincoln he ended slavery. 308 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:23.240 We know that in eighteen sixty five or eighteen sixty three, 309 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:27.240 some say, because the Emtancipation Proclamation, And like I had 310 00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:30.440 mentioned here earlier. I found my parents or my great 311 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:33.960 grandparents on the eighteen seventy census. That was the first 312 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:38.960 time ali that African Americans were listed on a federal 313 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:44.200 census for the first time as far as everyone, because 314 00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:46.799 it was five years after the end of the Civil War, 315 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:50.039 and so now everyone was just you know, a regular citizen, 316 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:52.839 you know, the way it was supposed to be. So, 317 00:17:53.559 --> 00:17:56.680 but if you want to go further back eighteen sixty, 318 00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:00.920 well then you're going back into the old system of things. 319 00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:04.759 You know, when the South was at its peak and 320 00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:08.880 the cotton was king and all that. So eighteen sixty 321 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:11.720 that's when you really get into the struggle of trying 322 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:16.079 to identify who your parents are and your ancestors. I 323 00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:19.359 should say. Now, for some people, they have what they 324 00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:22.200 call free people of color. I learned about that as 325 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:25.160 I became a genealogist. There were some people who had 326 00:18:25.200 --> 00:18:28.759 the designation of they were a free person of color, 327 00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:32.519 meaning they were emancipated or they were set free a 328 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:37.200 long time ago, maybe eighteen hundreds, and their family just 329 00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:39.680 were free all the way up and right through the 330 00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:42.680 Civil War. Everything. They were just cruising. They were free, 331 00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:46.319 and so they never had that problem of being found 332 00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:49.880 on the census record because their family had always been free. 333 00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:52.319 Free people of color by the bye or herd to 334 00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:56.880 as free people of color, and just the distinction is 335 00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:00.200 a very painful reminder that they were the exception, not 336 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:04.000 the rule. Stephen explored the beginnings of the laws that 337 00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:07.279 would shape and scar the nation for the last four 338 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:11.720 hundred years in his book sixteen nineteen twenty Africans their 339 00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:15.720 story and discovery of their black, red and white descendants. 340 00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:19.519 But in Hampton, Virginia, there was a little ship that 341 00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:22.680 came in in August of sixteen nineteen and had had 342 00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:26.359 twenty Africans on it and they were taken off of 343 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:32.200 a of a slave ship that was heading to Mexico Vercruz, Mexico, 344 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:38.519 and some pirates attacked the ship and took about fifty 345 00:19:38.519 --> 00:19:41.920 Africans off of the slave ship. And this true story, 346 00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:47.720 and twenty of them came to the coast Virginia, Hampton, Virginia, 347 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:51.200 and they let them go. They traded them for food 348 00:19:51.880 --> 00:19:54.720 and long story short, I did this book based on this, 349 00:19:55.480 --> 00:19:59.200 and DNA is so interesting now too. Everyone has taken 350 00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:01.920 a DNA to trying to find out about their ancestry. 351 00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:04.079 You know, we have TV shows about it. 352 00:20:04.519 --> 00:20:09.160 Please see Finding Your Roots, Genealogy, road show, Faces of 353 00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:12.240 America and who Do You Think You Are? The letter 354 00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:15.240 of which fun fact is produced by Lisa Kudro aka 355 00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:17.920 Phoebe from Friends And she even did an episode on 356 00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:19.359 Courtney Cox and We'll. 357 00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:21.720 See and she was hoping that, you know, her family 358 00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:24.079 were good people and knowing like murdered anyone, And it 359 00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:27.519 turns out her ancestors murdered the King of England. 360 00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:30.480 I looked into this further and a red hot poker 361 00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:32.160 may have been involved, but we don't need to go 362 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:36.720 into it anyway. Part of discovering one's genealogy is facing that, 363 00:20:36.839 --> 00:20:40.359 guess what, just because they're your ancestors doesn't mean that 364 00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:43.680 they're the protagonist of the story. So it's easy as 365 00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:46.400 a white person to think that, say, Black History Month 366 00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:49.839 doesn't involve you, But if you live in America, it does. 367 00:20:50.119 --> 00:20:53.839 It involves all of us. And with knowledge comes context, 368 00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:58.319 and with context comes understanding, and DNA tests are expanding 369 00:20:58.359 --> 00:20:59.680 that knowledge more and more. 370 00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:02.799 It is just phenomenal. And so I took my DNA 371 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:05.279 test and come to find out that I have some 372 00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:10.920 connections to these first Africans. So that's what this latest 373 00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:15.279 book is about. And so the further you go back 374 00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:18.440 in time, it just gets harder and harder to locate 375 00:21:19.960 --> 00:21:24.359 your family. If you were, if you're you know, if 376 00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:28.359 your ancestry or your inheritance was slavery. But it can 377 00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:30.440 be done. It can be done. 378 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:34.279 And I'd love to hear more about your your personal 379 00:21:34.319 --> 00:21:37.640 family discovery and what that was like for you when 380 00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:41.880 you were tracing your genealogy, trasing your family history and 381 00:21:43.160 --> 00:21:47.160 you made that discovery that you had obviously relatives who 382 00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:49.559 were slaves in the South, What was that like for you? 383 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:55.279 Wow? Yeah, to connect it was amazing. I interviewed so 384 00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:58.000 many different relatives, so many different cousins. Most of my 385 00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:00.960 father's side had passed away, but my mom's was still around. 386 00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:04.599 But it was just amazing just interviewing people. But then, 387 00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:08.200 as we mentioned earlier, we didn't have the internet back 388 00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:10.880 in those days, so you can't just get on Google 389 00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:15.640 and you know, type in a web search and click 390 00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:18.720 on a document and you know, print out your family tree. 391 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:22.000 It doesn't work that way. So I had to travel around. 392 00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:23.720 I didn't go fly, but I would get on the 393 00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:27.279 ground bus and I would just travel to Mississippi to Kansas. 394 00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:31.240 I went to Virginia, South Carolina, just interviewing people, going 395 00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:37.119 to courthouses. And I'll never forget this day Ali September 396 00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:40.519 twenty second, nineteen ninety four. I'll never forget that day. 397 00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:43.359 That was the day that I took a trip down 398 00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:50.680 to Duck Hill, Mississippi, to meet the great granddaughter of 399 00:22:52.039 --> 00:22:58.920 the man who my ancestors worked for. It was deep. Yeah. 400 00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:04.440 We corresponded over the phone and she said she'd be 401 00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:08.240