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Speaker 1: Mateo Sen John, I'll thanks Sunny Sun, I have vision,

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but it's.

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Speaker 2: To week accent.

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Speaker 1: Spinning and Sundays.

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Speaker 3: A man, but it's j Sin.

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Speaker 1: Candy and feel that Sadiqueen that shows that ain't.

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Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to for crying out loud. I'm your host, Glynnette,

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and I'm s WT and we have a guest, a

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very special guest. My god, I'm so I'm so excited.

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I'm like hyper right now. I know we're talking really

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fast so that we can get we don't Mark, Garrett, Mark,

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I was just at his house the other day. You are, yeah,

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you're so love his wife, but I know I don't

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get to see him.

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Speaker 4: Not that I don't.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I love Paulette, but I like, I have

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a million questions from more.

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Speaker 5: I just love lawyer ship. I love to hear about

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the law. Like we're talking to him about so many.

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Speaker 2: So many things. I watched the John Bennet and I

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think you're right. Well, we'll talk later, Okay, Okay, yes, Hi.

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Speaker 4: Mark, I need I need, I need the eyebrow product. Hi.

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Speaker 5: I'm Stephanie. Oh sorry, they meet you. I'm super excited.

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Speaker 2: To meet you.

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Speaker 4: I'm super excited to be here.

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Speaker 2: We're just talking about our eyebrows really quick.

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Speaker 4: And I need eyebrow. I need eyebrow treatment.

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Speaker 2: They know your eyebrows are good.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this product is it.

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Speaker 5: It's an eyebrow palmade and they make it in different

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colors because you know, so that whatever your brow color is,

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if it's blonde, brown, or black, they have subtle shades.

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Speaker 2: Look, I just put them on. How did my brows look?

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Speaker 4: Your brows look very good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they look pretty much on right. Yeah, now they

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look youthful, youth, they're kind of very youth and yeah.

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Speaker 4: You so you know how you always when women dye

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their hair. Yeah, and then the brows sometimes don't match. Now,

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so do you use the non matching or do you

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use the one that you should that you should have

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dyed you could.

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Speaker 2: That's a complicated question, you know. But now thanks to

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glass ya, you don't have to worry about that dyeing

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your eyebrows because that kind of looks weird anyway. So

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they have three different nice shades that are subtle of

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a blonde, a brown, and a black. You can't go wrong.

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Speaker 4: What about redheads?

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Speaker 2: And it's only sixteen dollars. That's a good question. Well,

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then you use like the blonde one so that your eyebrows,

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it's not it's not going to be.

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Speaker 4: Like a dark color, so blonde will work for a

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ginger I think.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, the upgrade you're going to ask you a

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question in here.

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Speaker 4: I know that in the middle of the read please

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do it just came from Adams. And there's the substantially

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larger studio and this I literally have a closet in

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my house that is is larger than.

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Speaker 2: This now been in my house. And I feel like

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you're cross examining us. I know, like Mark, I know

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we're going to look weird because because the background will

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start to screw with you mentally and your your vision

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and you're going to we're going to look like we're

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three D popping out right, but you'll adjust. I know

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it's terrible the lighting, and it's I need to finish

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this adreation. Adam shoved us in a closet.

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Speaker 5: This product, Glossier is only sixteen dollars right now. You're

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going to get twenty percent off your first purchase, So

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go to glossier dot com and do that. And also

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before we get into Mark, Yeah, we were.

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Speaker 4: Just talking though I'll tell you. Adam and I were

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just talking on reasonable doubt about the fact that he

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stays at the hotels that have hallways that are outside,

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and that Lynette stays at hotels where the hallways on

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their inside. And so now I understand why you're in

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the closet because this is psychic payback.

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Speaker 2: Listen, look at the cars in that in this area

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over there. If you walk out of this room, you're

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going to bump.

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Speaker 4: Into the time. Do you spend hammering him over the cars?

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Because if I had this car collection, Paullette would be.

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Speaker 2: On me, you know, would you know what I get?

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If I say one peep? And I'm sorry because I

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know you're trying to do an ad. But if I

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say one peep, he says, are you kidding? That's Sonny

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and Italia's that's their that's their college education.

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Speaker 4: But you don't want to give him a trust fund

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though you don't tell you no, no, no, you don't

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want to be kids.

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Speaker 2: That's our investments. He doesn't invest in stocks, he doesn't

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you know that that's this has.

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Speaker 4: Been a very smart investment for Do you want to

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finish the ad you've got that I've done with that

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you've done glossier, right, gloss. I'm using it as we speak.

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It's the greatest eyebrow product. Now we're talking about my

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sister in law's X. In that ax, my sister in

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law's father who's now passed away. When the I R

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S or the franchise tax board would come to audit,

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he would stick him in a small closet like room

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and then turn the air conditioning off. And then he

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figured they wouldn't want to hang around and do the

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audit anymore. So this is when you know, idea, you

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don't what the guests here, You put him in the closet,

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you turn the air off, and they lead pretty soon.

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Speaker 2: Now Mark walked in here, going what the it's happening here?

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He's like, it's hot in here. It's weird.

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Speaker 4: It's like, but isn't his area bigger than yours?

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Speaker 2: I think so engineers, Yes, did you turn the air on?

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Speaker 6: But how much room do you need? I like dancing

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in here? Yea no, hot, No, we can I get

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right to a question that I have.

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Speaker 5: For you, because I am I'm going and asked with

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crime and murder, and I and ask Lynnette. We've been

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doing this, we've been podcasting together for like almost six

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years at this point, so she knows all about me

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and I really wanted to be a lawyer. Yes, our

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kids were very little when we started. I would have

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loved to have been a lawyer, only I didn't. I

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barely graduated high school and didn't go to college.

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Speaker 4: Some of the best lawyers I know ones who barely

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graduated high school.

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Speaker 2: Really, but then you have to go to law school.

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Speaker 4: Yeah that doesn't Well, technically you could apprentice for eighteen

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months and then take the bar. You just got to

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pass to pass the bar. Yeah, I mean, if Lynette

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spent just another six months with me, you could have qualified.

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Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, oh my god, I would love it. Get somebody.

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Speaker 4: Courtroom. Go on. She is very she's got perfect instinct.

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Speaker 2: Well, we don't count that as apprenticing. Well, sure we

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had where we have questions for you, but just so

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the audience. Now, when we got sued by Adam's best

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stupid best friend Donnie who, Mark was like, that's your

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best friend. Like, this guy's a stoner. What the fuck

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are you thinking? It's starting a business with him? He

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can't even read. Anyways, we dispara I don't know, sorry,

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defend you again. Okay, Look, if you got if you're

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getting sued, you want gargos on your side, because you

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walk through that LA courtroom, I mean the LA courthouse.

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And he walks in there like I said this before.

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We walks in there like he owns the place, like

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oh hey, he's all smiles. Hey, hy judge, Hey judge,

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Judge Thompson, come this way, you come in the chambers,

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Come meet judge. Time brings me and Adam into the chambers. Wait,

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we got a we have a nine o'clock mark.

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Speaker 5: We gotta go.

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Speaker 4: Tomorrow, we gotta go. It's like, now we got time,

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we got.

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Speaker 2: Time, let's go. And he's intimidating to the other side

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when they were trying to intimidate us, And it was great.

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Speaker 5: It was great, except and as we know, there's such

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a difference between somebody defending you that is a well

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I guess paid for right because I was on a

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jury only one time when well I was pregnant with

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my first child, who's turning twelve. Okay, so twelve years ago.

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Speaker 2: Which court uh van eyes.

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Speaker 4: Okay, so civil or criminal?

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Speaker 2: Criminal?

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Speaker 4: Criminal?

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Speaker 5: Judge's name was Catherine. I want to say our Kathleen Kathleen. Yeah,

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she was great.

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Speaker 2: I love the judge.

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Speaker 4: Yes, nice, so one of my favorite judges.

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Speaker 2: Really.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, she's retired now. I've only seen her a couple

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of times last year.

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Speaker 2: I loved her.

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Speaker 4: Was she was really phenomenal. Yeah, she's incredibly smart. In fact,

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I think my father before he retired, tried his last

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case in front of her, and I just adore her.

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I just I missed her. Yeah. It was not too

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many judges like her around anymore.

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Speaker 6: I was like a fan of hers by the time

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we left.

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Speaker 4: But you are guilty voter.

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Speaker 5: Oh well, I can tell you in a nutshell what

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it was. So it was so and I I went

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to go audition. I was gonna say auditioned to be

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on the jury. But I went there wanting to be

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on a case because I was pregnant. I'd already quit

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my job job ended, so I had what was your job?

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I was a writer TV writer, but the show I

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was writing on ended and I was seven months pregnant,

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so I was not going to go try to get

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another job at that time.

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Speaker 2: So I had a lot of time to kill and

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always wanted to be on a jury.

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Speaker 5: So I was basically asking to be on the jury

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without begging, which I now know is sort of a

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red flag, but they.

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Speaker 4: Have total red flag. In fact, I always tell the juriys, look,

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if you think that you want to get on this jury,

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then don't let me know that because I'm not.

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Speaker 2: Going to write you.

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Speaker 4: I want people because the only time, you know, nobody

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wants to be on a jury, they want to get off.

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So anytime somebody wants to get on immediately suspicious.

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Speaker 5: I think they weren't suspicious. I think they liked me

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because I told them why. I said, the reason why

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is I'm really bored. I was like, I'm really bored.

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I am very interested. I want to be fair like

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I well.

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Speaker 4: You know, I've left. I had a case with also

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another Kathleen judge, Kathleen Kennedy downtown.

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Speaker 2: And she's the one you brought us in the chambers with.

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Speaker 4: She was exactly and so there's there was a t

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and I asked the guy who do you write for?

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And he told me it was for the Sopranos. And

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I said, you know anything about this case when you

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heard the charges that makes you think one way or another?

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And he said, mister gergasu kidding. I look over your

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clients and they look like they could be auditioning for

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the show now by code offendant, code defend Co Council says,

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we got to get rid of these guys. I said, no,

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I like collect this guy. He said his wife wrote

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for Law and Order and he thought that was a

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punk show and that he ended up being my four

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person and we got to go to it. Wow.

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Speaker 5: Well, I will tell you fine, this is also interesting.

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I think might be interesting to you. So the case

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was I'll just make it quick because I want to

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hear you. But was a guy who was up on

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the count was that he was making criminal threats. He

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it was a guy who was drunk driving, hit a

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car and then hit a couple more cars, caused like

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a big accident, and then was drunk and saying I'm

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going to go to my car. I have a gun

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and I'm going to shoot you. But he didn't have

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a gun and he didn't actually.

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Speaker 2: Go to a car. And guilty. No, I didn't vote

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not guilty. He was guilty.

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Speaker 5: But the problem, I'll tell you what the problem was

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the problem was his defense attorney sucked his He had

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a public defender and she was really bad and the

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problem was is I would have I had a lot

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of problems with the case, but the problems that I

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had weren't They weren't arguing that right, so that they

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were basically saying he was drunk. The public defender tried

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to say that he wasn't the one driving. That's what

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they wanted us to let him off on.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, but he was driving.

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Speaker 4: He was.

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Speaker 5: But here's the thing that really killed me was Oh, well,

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so I'm pregnant and one of the people that got

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hit in the car was pregnant.

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Speaker 6: I was very surprised they put.

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Speaker 2: Me on there because you were.

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Speaker 5: Pregnant person that got hit scared and trauma taized, right.

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But I was kind of on the guy's side a

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little bit because the thing that they were making such

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a One of the witnesses, one of the people who

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was kind of involved, was so dramatic and histrionic about it,

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and like they went to the hospital, nothing happened to her.

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The guy never went and got a gun. He was

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just drunk and yelling about a gun, but he didn't

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have a gun. He never went to a car and

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got a gun. Nothing ever happened to anybody.

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Speaker 4: Does your husband do.

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Speaker 2: He's a writer, right, so you could see him doing.

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Speaker 6: That getting really drunk and yeah, yeah, you know, I.

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Speaker 4: Have a great deal of sympathy for that guy if

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you can't let off a little steam by getting drunk

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and yellow.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't that.

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Speaker 5: It was just I have a problem when people are

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so victimized, like nothing happened to her, She didn't miss

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a day of work, like she went to the hospital.

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Speaker 4: That's a very good insight, because I can't tell. I

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had a case in West Covina years ago, and it

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was a doctor out of Arcadia and the doctor was

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accused groping the receptionist or something, and so we were

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I had the receptionists on the stand and I swear

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to God, she would cry whenever the DA would ask

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her a question, like he touched my boob or something

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like that. Okay, got it exactly. I rocked up against

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their boom, so the she would cry and cry, and

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then I got up to stop crying because I'm the

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evil defense lawyer. And so then we the judge called

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us into chambers for something, and the DA was objecting

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because I was I was mauling this this woman. So

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we went to changers. Did not, so they take us.

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They take us into the back and one of my

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clients tell us to come back. They said, she started

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crying again as soon as you guys left the room,

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and the jury that was it. They were done, and

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the jury, sure enough, they acquitted the guy. They said,

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the same kind of thing. H cares right right, Well.

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Speaker 5: That's what I was like, this is your lead witness,

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and she didn't get hurt, but she oh so she

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got They gave her a valume.

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Speaker 2: So my thing I was kind of trying to argue

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with the with the my fellow jurists was which.

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Speaker 4: By the way, was you know as I was growing up,

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my mother and her coterie of friends, they were all

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on valuume and any other thing from six to twelve

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stand yeah right, none, I mean everybody was valuum value.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, volume is a nice drug.

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Speaker 5: I don't take it anymore, but well Xanax is the

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new new value outa van.

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Speaker 6: But anyway, I was trying to say, like that, the problem.

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Speaker 4: Was she Drew, and Drew can give us some guidance

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on this.

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Speaker 2: It was gross bodily injury, so he had right.

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Speaker 6: So also I found this out later. It was his

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third strike. Guys, never coming out.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. But the thing that pissed me off was I

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was like, that's a gross bodily Well, the problem was

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the defense wasn't saying it wasn't. She was saying, yes

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he did this, and yes he did the injury, but

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I want to say that he was not guilty because

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he wasn't driving the car. Well, so now we all

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go and we're talking amongst ourselves and me and this

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other one woman. There was only two intelligent people. I'm

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including myself because it wasn't really that hard to look

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intelligent next to these I don't understand where these people came.

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Speaker 6: From, but they were.

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Speaker 2: I was traumatized.

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Speaker 6: Me and the other girl, who was normal, were like

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what is happening.

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Speaker 5: We would go to lunch and and we couldn't really

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talk about the case, but we would just be like,

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I don't understand these people. They're they're going like, yeah,

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well maybe he wasn't driving the car. I'm like, well,

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then how the fuck did he get back in? How

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did he he was in the car.

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Speaker 2: The cops came upon him, airbags were deployed, the car

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door was dented in.

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Speaker 5: I'm like, if he wasn't driving, the card to get

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in there. She had no The defense attorney had no

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explanation for that. She was like, well, nobody really saw

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him driving the car, well except for the cop that

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came to arrest.

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Speaker 2: Him, and he was in the car.

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Speaker 4: He was in the car.

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Speaker 2: Was he injured, No, he was injured. No he wasn't.

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Speaker 4: Really do you have seat belt marks?

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Speaker 6: I don't really remember what happened, but the accident, it

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wasn't a bad acporting.

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Speaker 4: Guy is in custody for the rest of his life.

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He's gone for doing nothing terrible.

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Speaker 2: Well, he was drunk driving, for sure, that's what's get injured.

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Speaker 5: Rubbed up a boob and nobody got injured.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, he grabbed somebody's boob.

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Speaker 2: Exactly done.

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Speaker 4: But I was not.

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Speaker 2: My My big problem was I.

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Speaker 5: Was like, this wasn't fair that he got this defense

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attorney because we weren't allowed to argue certain things.

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Speaker 2: That's the thing, because I think it's.

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Speaker 5: It's not about that, And they're like, well, you can't

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argue that it wasn't gross bodily injury because that's not

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being argued, Like, you're not, that's not that's not one

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of the options. Like he's either guilty of felony threats.

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It was he committed felony threat?

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Speaker 2: Did he or did he not?

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Speaker 6: Do you believe that he said I have a gun

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and I'm going to get my gun.

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Speaker 4: You know, for a second, when you were describing this case,

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it sounded like the last case my father tried in

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front of Judge Stoltz, because that was one where there

360
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was an accident and our client took a baseball bat

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and beat the crap out of the car that the

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purported victim was.

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Speaker 6: But oh, no, no, no, he this guy had no

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weapon strung and so and they acquitted.

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Speaker 4: They found not guilty. Guy.

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Speaker 2: I have a question, I asked, First of all, let

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me give him a plug. Glorious your TV show on

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thor I haven't recorded it was the first episode, right

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00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,359
was last When this is airing.

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Speaker 4: This Friday, then then go onto ABC dot com and

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watch the first three episodes. So make sure you do it.

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I'm so it's based on what is it tell us,

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based on the relationship between me and Wendy Walker. Wendy

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was the executive producer for twenty years for Larry King

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00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:11,359
and kind of It's life imitating art, art imitating life.

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I say that because in the premiere episode, there was

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my fictional characters driving up in his porch to the

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00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,960
client's house and the client's house is surrounded by Swatt

379
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,400
Swat team. Three weeks ago, I get a calls I

380
00:18:24,519 --> 00:18:27,279
was doing a podcast with Brown, Chris Brown. There you go,

381
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Chris Brown, and we go up and boom boom boom.

382
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Now this is the you're looking at on the screen,

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00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:39,599
the sexy charismatic defense lawyer. Yeah, played by Daniel Sanjatta

384
00:18:39,759 --> 00:18:42,359
and Piper Parabo who plays Wendy's.

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Speaker 2: She's been everywhere promoting Jimmy's Yeah, yeah, yeah, she.

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Speaker 4: Didn't give me a plug. Jimmy had to oh yeah.

387
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Speaker 6: On the show.

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Speaker 4: I'm an executive producer. Executive producer. I go to the

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writer's room and the writers send me stuff and I

390
00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,359
tell them you can't do this, and they say, yeah, yeah,

391
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,799
yes we can. And sometimes they'll think my suggestions, sometimes

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they won't.

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Speaker 5: That's great, modeled off as your's amazing fun.

394
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:15,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is so fun. Awesome.

395
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:17,319
Speaker 4: Wait what was your TV show?

396
00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:19,319
Speaker 2: That what she wrote on?

397
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Speaker 6: Oh, that I wrote on. I also had my own

398
00:19:23,279 --> 00:19:23,720
talk show.

399
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,160
Speaker 4: But yeah, that's where I know you from.

400
00:19:26,519 --> 00:19:30,319
Speaker 5: Probably Nickelode Yeah, Nickelode His kids are older and yeah,

401
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:31,319
probably yeah, probably not.

402
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:33,839
Speaker 6: I wrote on Hollywood Squares. I was a comedy writer.

403
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:35,519
Speaker 4: Did you ever write for Paul Lynn?

404
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,799
Speaker 2: No, there you.

405
00:19:40,279 --> 00:19:43,240
Speaker 5: I wrote for Ellen DeGeneres, I wrote for Yeah. I

406
00:19:43,319 --> 00:19:46,039
wrote on a lot of game shows, variety shows.

407
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,640
Speaker 2: Really joke writer. Yeah, and then and then I've written.

408
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,319
Speaker 4: Some books now and what are your books called?

409
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:53,599
Speaker 2: Sippy cups?

410
00:19:53,599 --> 00:19:56,480
Speaker 6: Are not for chardonay? Nap Time's the new happy Hour?

411
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,559
Speaker 2: It's not me, it's you, It's not it's I'm kind

412
00:20:00,599 --> 00:20:01,240
of a big deal.

413
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,759
Speaker 6: And gummy Bear should not be organic. That's my last one. Okay, yeah,

414
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:06,000
have their opinions.

415
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 2: But I want to talk about can I need? I

416
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,920
needed to talk about the Hot car Dad? Yes? Are

417
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:16,359
you up on this case? Just hot car Dad?

418
00:20:16,759 --> 00:20:18,519
Speaker 4: I am? I am a one.

419
00:20:18,599 --> 00:20:19,240
Speaker 2: This is a guy.

420
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,079
Speaker 5: I'm obsessed with this case. I'm listening to it on Breakdown.

421
00:20:24,039 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 4: This was huge on CNN, and I commented on it initially,

422
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,279
he did when it happened. And then because the election

423
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,920
cover just kind of eclipsed everything, they're not really covering

424
00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,160
it as much. Where do you get your news on this? Well?

425
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,319
Speaker 5: Because no, the reason why they weren't covering it as

426
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,960
much is because uh well, yeah, probably the election. But

427
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,440
they had a big break because they had to move.

428
00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:45,039
They moved it even though they had started the whole

429
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:50,240
they couldn't find jury. A jury, everybody, yes, So they

430
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,680
moved it. And months and months went by, like a

431
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,079
long time went by. And now there's a podcast that

432
00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:57,640
covers it a week.

433
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,319
Speaker 2: It's a week. It's called what it's called Breakdown. Yeah

434
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,720
so I haven't heard the newest episodes, but.

435
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:08,359
Speaker 6: Yeah, so what here's my main question that I'm dying.

436
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 4: For a parson like you to tell me that he's guilty.

437
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,400
Speaker 6: I think he's I absolutely think he's guilty.

438
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,720
Speaker 4: And I would have predicted that because you're a professional

439
00:21:17,799 --> 00:21:20,559
white woman, and professional white women come in with a

440
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,160
presumption of guilt. Anytime you interject the guy who's screwing

441
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,880
around with prostitutes, or the guy's screwing around he's cheating

442
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,000
on the wife, or anything like that, or there's a

443
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,559
cheating element or sexual outside.

444
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,559
Speaker 2: The box element, then you wouldn't want her on the jurney.

445
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:37,680
Speaker 4: I wouldn't let her get within eight hundred miles of

446
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,519
this jurty. This guy's devil incarnate, right.

447
00:21:42,559 --> 00:21:46,759
Speaker 5: I think that there is a lot of I think

448
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,799
that he'll probably be acquitted. But my question is, yes,

449
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:56,160
I think he's guilty. But my question is a lot

450
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,079
of the evidence, like that he was in these chat

451
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,240
that he was in these chat rooms, child free lifestyle,

452
00:22:01,759 --> 00:22:05,039
that he was, and I feel like he planned it well.

453
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,839
Also the fact that he one of the first things

454
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,559
he said to the cop where the cops said, might

455
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,799
have said, you might be accused of doing this, he said,

456
00:22:13,839 --> 00:22:17,200
but there was no malicious intent, and there was a

457
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,559
lot he did research on how long does it take

458
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,200
for something to die in your car? For an animal

459
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,000
to die in the backseat of your car. I mean,

460
00:22:24,559 --> 00:22:28,880
I think there's so much much like circumstantial evidence. Okay, so,

461
00:22:29,319 --> 00:22:33,920
but my actual question is so much is being made

462
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,960
of trying to convince a jury that people can accidentally

463
00:22:38,079 --> 00:22:41,279
leave your kid in the car, which I don't understand

464
00:22:41,319 --> 00:22:44,559
why so much, because yes, I agree, you can absolutely,

465
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:45,519
of course that can happen.

466
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Speaker 4: To what we used to say. It's funny. I used

467
00:22:47,759 --> 00:22:49,880
to do CNN with Sonny Houston, who's now in the

468
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,160
view and Sonny as much of a prosecutor as Sonny is,

469
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,680
and she was always a prosecutor. Even she said the

470
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,039
same thing that she had, like Gabriel or kid in

471
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,039
the car once and panic And I can't tell you

472
00:23:02,079 --> 00:23:04,920
how many times I'm right back in the day.

473
00:23:05,319 --> 00:23:08,039
Speaker 2: Yeah it is, it can happen.

474
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 4: It's happen. Yeah, it's scary.

475
00:23:10,039 --> 00:23:12,400
Speaker 5: So they're trying to get the jury to understand and

476
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,720
they have all these experts that they've brought that this

477
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,680
is a phenomenon that can happen if you change your

478
00:23:17,759 --> 00:23:20,599
routine or just if the different person is taking the kid,

479
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,160
or if something else is on your mind, that you

480
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,640
can go into autopilot and just keep going and forget

481
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:26,319
to drop your kids.

482
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 4: Tacare the kid falls asleep.

483
00:23:28,039 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 2: Ryes.

484
00:23:28,599 --> 00:23:31,559
Speaker 5: I absolutely think that that's a real thing. But what

485
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:33,880
I don't understand is that's.

486
00:23:33,759 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 2: Not the case.

487
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,519
Speaker 5: Like, you're not trying a case to go Look, listen,

488
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,359
we're accusing this guy of accidentally leaving his kid in

489
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,920
the car. Like the case is that he purposely killed

490
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,440
his kids so that he could get out of The defense.

491
00:23:46,519 --> 00:23:49,759
Speaker 2: Defense is saying that, right is that they don't have anything.

492
00:23:49,839 --> 00:23:51,240
What are they going to what is there.

493
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 4: Obviously once they see I think it's a little disingenuous

494
00:23:56,839 --> 00:23:59,039
and that's just a defense lawyer in me, so I'll

495
00:23:59,079 --> 00:24:02,319
say it. Yeah, that's when they start off with the

496
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:06,400
prosecution saying, well, he wanted to see prostitutes, he wanted

497
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,079
a kid free lifestyle, blah blah blah blah blah. That's

498
00:24:09,319 --> 00:24:12,079
character assassination to start off with. Okay, And now I

499
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,720
know that that's their theory. I don't know that that

500
00:24:15,039 --> 00:24:17,880
actually has any basis in reality or if it really

501
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:20,400
is it, but it is certainly as a way to

502
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,240
get you to hate the guy before you come into

503
00:24:22,279 --> 00:24:25,000
the courtroom. And that's a problem because then are you

504
00:24:25,079 --> 00:24:29,000
convicting him because he patronizes prostitutes or there's not a

505
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,240
you're convicting him because he really wanted to murder the kid.

506
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:38,319
I can't imagine. I mean, and look, I always think,

507
00:24:39,319 --> 00:24:42,720
try to find there's very few people I've ever met

508
00:24:42,759 --> 00:24:46,559
who are truly evil, and I've represented people who everybody

509
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,720
thinks it. It's just few and far between. In fact,

510
00:24:49,759 --> 00:24:51,519
I was in a courtroom yesterday with a judge who

511
00:24:51,519 --> 00:24:53,519
said the same thing. The judge has been on the

512
00:24:53,519 --> 00:24:56,759
bench for thirty years and said we were having that discussion.

513
00:24:56,839 --> 00:24:58,960
He says, you know, there just aren't There's maybe two

514
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,720
or three times in our careers, and he and I

515
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,000
that I've ever had somebody, I said, yeah, that person's

516
00:25:04,079 --> 00:25:08,839
just evil warehouse. You can give it a spin. You

517
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,240
can always I mean, you give me something, how horrible

518
00:25:12,319 --> 00:25:16,559
happens to you. You let me check your phone, your text,

519
00:25:17,079 --> 00:25:21,599
your computer and do a deep dive into your life.

520
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,000
And there's going to be stuff that I can screw

521
00:25:24,079 --> 00:25:26,480
around with and make you look guilty of something. I mean,

522
00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:27,440
that's just the way it is.

523
00:25:28,039 --> 00:25:28,279
Speaker 3: And I.

524
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 5: Understand that, and innocent people go to jail all the time,

525
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:37,759
so I realize that you can absolutely be made to

526
00:25:37,839 --> 00:25:41,759
look guilty. But I also really think that there are

527
00:25:41,799 --> 00:25:44,519
people that can compartmentalize. And I mean I think this

528
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:49,680
guy compartmentalized the whole Having a kid was like an inconvenience.

529
00:25:50,039 --> 00:25:52,599
Speaker 2: This was a person who's sole focus.

530
00:25:53,079 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 5: I mean there's there were like forty thousand messages on

531
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,400
his phone, like that is all he This guy did

532
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,240
all day long was like message with women. That's not

533
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,839
a person who's focused on being a dad or focused

534
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,799
on You think there in any way.

535
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 2: Though, as a defense attorney, that maybe they should be

536
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,680
focusing on the fact that instead of that, instead of

537
00:26:13,759 --> 00:26:15,599
oh it could be. It can happen that he was,

538
00:26:16,079 --> 00:26:19,680
that he was distracted and he all he cared about

539
00:26:19,799 --> 00:26:24,359
was other women and were sex and they a thousand.

540
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,279
Speaker 5: It's not just like if he the guy was having

541
00:26:26,279 --> 00:26:28,759
an affair whatever, I don't give a shit what you're

542
00:26:28,799 --> 00:26:31,079
you're having an affair, that doesn't make you a bad dad.

543
00:26:31,599 --> 00:26:36,000
I absolutely agree with that. It's not the having an affair.

544
00:26:36,079 --> 00:26:39,240
It's not even having Internet messages with younger women. It's

545
00:26:39,319 --> 00:26:42,519
not even meeting women for sex and being gross. It's

546
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,680
you are spending all that's all you're doing your you're concerned.

547
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,559
Speaker 4: I'm kind of with Lynette on that he's so consumed

548
00:26:49,599 --> 00:26:51,519
that he's forgotten about the kid who fell asleep in

549
00:26:51,599 --> 00:26:52,200
the back of the car.

550
00:26:52,799 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 5: Defense that why should okay, why besides his forty thousand

551
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,920
messages with women, why is he googling how long does

552
00:27:00,079 --> 00:27:01,519
it take for something to die on the back of

553
00:27:01,599 --> 00:27:01,920
your car.

554
00:27:02,279 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 4: I don't know anybody to do that, because I'll tell

555
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:09,319
you I've had Google searches used in cases that I've

556
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,160
tried where it turns out they didn't actually use that,

557
00:27:13,559 --> 00:27:15,599
that it was part of the pop up that comes

558
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,279
along on the side or the promoted stuff. And when

559
00:27:18,319 --> 00:27:20,920
you do a Internet, when you do the when you

560
00:27:21,039 --> 00:27:25,359
do what's called the in case system to replicate the computer,

561
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,480
that it hits everything that pops up. So if there's

562
00:27:28,519 --> 00:27:32,519
a page and it's got seven different promoted stories and

563
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,799
you're not even reading one of the stories on the

564
00:27:35,079 --> 00:27:37,720
right or left, the way in case system makes it

565
00:27:37,799 --> 00:27:42,799
look it looks like you read it. So somebody's genius,

566
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,599
Donald Trump's genius way to pay off your mortgage. You

567
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,519
didn't click on that article, but that article will show

568
00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:51,119
your search. Well, yes, says you were. I'm a r.

569
00:27:51,759 --> 00:27:56,880
So the thing is, I'm never I've never seen one

570
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,240
of those Google search pieces of evidence that when you

571
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,880
drilled down on the forensic person that the forensic person

572
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,400
didn't admit. Yeah, you're right that probably. We don't know

573
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,880
if he actually read that article. We don't know. We

574
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:12,920
can't even tell how long that article was up. We

575
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,880
all we know is that it was in a stream

576
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,960
of the articles that were called.

577
00:28:19,079 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 2: So as a defense attorney, that's what you focus on.

578
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 5: So why do you think though that that guy said,

579
00:28:26,519 --> 00:28:29,160
and this is proven, why do you think he said

580
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:30,759
it's not malicious intent?

581
00:28:31,079 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 4: Okay, I'll give you another thing. Yeah, that was just

582
00:28:33,759 --> 00:28:37,440
an oral statement by the cop. It's not proven number one,

583
00:28:37,599 --> 00:28:40,039
And you're going to get a jury instruction if George

584
00:28:40,119 --> 00:28:42,759
is the same as here that says any oral admission

585
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,039
out of court that's not recorded is to be viewed

586
00:28:46,079 --> 00:28:48,559
with caution. And so you're going to say just because

587
00:28:48,599 --> 00:28:50,799
the cop says it doesn't mean that it asks.

588
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 5: So how can you prove? So let's just say you

589
00:28:54,119 --> 00:28:57,240
are that guy and you're like, I am not in

590
00:28:57,359 --> 00:29:00,319
love with my wife. I'm really not like liking this

591
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,480
whole being a dad, this whole thing. I'm not connected

592
00:29:04,559 --> 00:29:07,319
to this kid. I don't I'm not connected to this lifestyle.

593
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,680
What I really want is to like just go do

594
00:29:09,839 --> 00:29:12,000
my thing and like fuck a lot of random women,

595
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,119
and this is really holding me down, and this my life.

596
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,119
Let's just say, hypothetically, this guy did do it, okay,

597
00:29:20,279 --> 00:29:23,200
and not because he's a serial killer or because he's

598
00:29:23,279 --> 00:29:26,640
a mass murder, but because he's like compartmentalized in his mind.

599
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 6: He's not connected to this made to him if he did.

600
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 4: But how could you ever if you're a if you're

601
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,440
a prosecutor, prosecutor's got all the cards in this case,

602
00:29:37,839 --> 00:29:38,759
he's got all the cards.

603
00:29:38,799 --> 00:29:41,319
Speaker 5: But all these things that I'm mentioning, you're saying are

604
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,359
not proof. And you probably see somebody being in somebody like.

605
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,799
Speaker 4: You if you're on that jury, right, you've already decided

606
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,519
that this guy needs to get the death penalty. You know,

607
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:54,400
you're you're done with.

608
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 2: I don't believe in the death penalty.

609
00:29:55,839 --> 00:29:59,519
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, but you'd make an exception in this guy's case. No, okay,

610
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:06,319
so good. So because it doesn't get makes sense, it's.

611
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 2: A big I'm absolutely one hundred perp. So we don't

612
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,480
need them. What do we need the person in society

613
00:30:10,759 --> 00:30:12,359
they decide are you going.

614
00:30:12,359 --> 00:30:14,519
Speaker 4: To let me tell you what the problem is besides

615
00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:14,920
the cost?

616
00:30:15,359 --> 00:30:17,359
Speaker 2: My problem with it if they're innocent.

617
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 4: I'm in the criminal justice system. Nobody gets it right,

618
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:20,839
you know?

619
00:30:24,119 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 2: And as you said, every year and you're you're by

620
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,559
the way and having uh sex, being able to have

621
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,200
what is it called contra right?

622
00:30:35,359 --> 00:30:35,599
Speaker 4: Right? Right?

623
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 3: What?

624
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:37,799
Speaker 2: What what we're going to have now? The spawn of

625
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,839
Charles Manson? Come on, I mean there's in certain cases

626
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,720
I think, by yes, there is a problem.

627
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 5: But short of the death penalty, there is a problem

628
00:30:48,839 --> 00:30:54,599
with people committing horrendous crimes against children, against and getting

629
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,680
out and not being able to put them in jail.

630
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 4: For commit if you commit a crime, and I listen

631
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:03,160
to a lot.

632
00:31:03,079 --> 00:31:05,119
Speaker 2: Of podcasts, I'm kind of an expert.

633
00:31:05,799 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 4: Well let me ask you don't get Let me just

634
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,119
tell you you don't get out. In fact, you get

635
00:31:10,279 --> 00:31:13,960
probably life times four times for if you do something

636
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,880
against kids. I mean, that's one of the misnumbers. It's

637
00:31:16,279 --> 00:31:21,079
it's horrible because whenever there's an exception, like a rock

638
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,240
Turner case, the Stanford rape case, when that case happens

639
00:31:24,519 --> 00:31:26,720
and somebody says, oh, this is awful, this rich white

640
00:31:26,799 --> 00:31:28,720
kit gets off, and then we start changing the laws,

641
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,680
then you've got the law of unintended consequences and all

642
00:31:31,759 --> 00:31:35,119
that does is tie judges hands in cases where you

643
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,440
need a judge to have discretion and you shouldn't punish

644
00:31:37,519 --> 00:31:39,920
a judge. Look what's going to happen the next time

645
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,400
that some kid, God forbid that somebody that you've got

646
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,480
a son who gets into a gets drunk and gets

647
00:31:46,519 --> 00:31:50,279
into a date rape situation and you know they both

648
00:31:50,359 --> 00:31:53,079
were drunk and they end up filing on the kid.

649
00:31:54,319 --> 00:31:56,599
The white people who come into my office always say,

650
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,480
where are my rights? What happened to my rights? They said,

651
00:31:58,519 --> 00:32:02,200
you voted them away when we you know, had this proposition,

652
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,480
that proposition and we're going to get tough on crime.

653
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,319
So always beer of the tough on crime, it ends

654
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,039
up sweeping up more people.

655
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,599
Speaker 5: This place where they the Jacob Wetterling, you know how

656
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,680
they just found the body of Jacob Waterling and the

657
00:32:15,759 --> 00:32:17,359
guy I just listened to a.

658
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 2: Multi a whole the whole Seri podcast. Yeah, yeah, kind

659
00:32:22,519 --> 00:32:23,160
of the podcast.

660
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 3: Kind of I kind of.

661
00:32:27,039 --> 00:32:29,759
Speaker 2: An honorary law degree. I don't want to brag, but

662
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:31,680
I have listened to like a lot of podcast.

663
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,319
Speaker 5: Okay, so but that guy is only only got like

664
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,000
got like a short sentence because they made a deal

665
00:32:39,039 --> 00:32:42,519
with him. They said they would drop all charges so

666
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,200
that he would show them the body.

667
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:50,799
Speaker 4: Right, and it's how many years later, well yeah, something

668
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:51,440
like that, right.

669
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, but he's uh molested like tons he but before

670
00:32:55,279 --> 00:32:57,920
he did this, he like molested like tons of kids.

671
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 6: And because as I don't know, see.

672
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 4: Do you know, if you invite me back, I'll do

673
00:33:06,039 --> 00:33:07,640
a deep dive on the facts.

674
00:33:07,359 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 2: And then we'll okay, let me ask you this. The

675
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:16,279
lost the the case of Lacey, is it lazy? Lady Peterson?

676
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:18,559
I always want to say the guy's name that played him,

677
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,160
Dean Dean King, when you were.

678
00:33:23,599 --> 00:33:27,319
Speaker 4: When you were defending Dean, who was splitting time between

679
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,799
being a guy accused of murder and playing.

680
00:33:30,599 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 2: Superman Superman right right, right right? Remember the lady Peterson

681
00:33:34,279 --> 00:33:39,799
right which was that again she was pregnant? Up, Scott Peterson,

682
00:33:39,799 --> 00:33:43,720
Scott Peters, Scott Peter. When you said the case of her,

683
00:33:43,799 --> 00:33:45,920
I was like, wait, Lacey didn't do anything right now.

684
00:33:46,079 --> 00:33:50,759
Speaker 4: That was a good example of the every white professional

685
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:55,559
woman's biggest nightmare, because you've got the guy no prior

686
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,319
criminal history, You've got her with that picture. And in fact,

687
00:33:59,359 --> 00:34:04,039
Wendy Walker, who is the inspiration for the Piper character,

688
00:34:04,599 --> 00:34:06,440
I used to just get into fights with her because

689
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,920
she would put up a picture of Lacey sitting at

690
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,159
the Christmas party pregnant, and then I know that picture

691
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,760
picture right next to it of Scott in the car

692
00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:18,880
with the blonde fluozy from Fresno, the massage therapist, And

693
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,320
that's every mother's worst.

694
00:34:21,559 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 5: Yes, guess what, you know what, and you'll be able

695
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,639
to predict this. Though I absolutely forgot that he was

696
00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:30,239
having an affair. What I remembered is that he had

697
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,840
all the maps and the boat.

698
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:33,599
Speaker 4: Yeah.

699
00:34:33,599 --> 00:34:34,559
Speaker 2: I went and got the boat.

700
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:40,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I tell the story.

701
00:34:40,119 --> 00:34:41,880
Speaker 5: I made a joke in my first book about I

702
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,719
would rather go fishing with Scott Peterson than do something

703
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:46,079
or other.

704
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:50,079
Speaker 4: Okay, but this is what I would go to the gym.

705
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,800
Back then it was the Passing Athletic Club, and so

706
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,599
I would come down from the trial on the weekend

707
00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:58,639
and I would be at the Athletic Club, and inevitably

708
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,719
somebody that I've known for years would say, well what

709
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,920
about this, And I'd say, well, no, actually, like you,

710
00:35:05,079 --> 00:35:07,639
I would say no, there actually were not maps. It

711
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,440
was just this that he had had the location entered

712
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,920
in for his navigation. Then they'd say, well, what about

713
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:17,760
the cement anchors, And I'd say, well, actually they recovered

714
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,199
the cement anchors that there were not four of them,

715
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,400
he just made two. And they'd say, well, what about

716
00:35:23,519 --> 00:35:25,599
the fact that he bought the insurance policy, And I'll say,

717
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,760
actually it was Lacey who bought the insurance policy, not him.

718
00:35:29,039 --> 00:35:31,199
And then they say, well, I don't care about the facts.

719
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,480
I just I had an ex boyfriend like him, and

720
00:35:33,599 --> 00:35:34,119
I knew that.

721
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,519
Speaker 2: I did to care about the facts, I would I am.

722
00:35:37,679 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 6: I am a person who guys care about the facts.

723
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 4: Well, I brought up on you, I would guess myself.

724
00:35:45,519 --> 00:35:48,960
I never should have argued against cameras in the courtroom.

725
00:35:49,199 --> 00:35:49,679
Speaker 2: Oh really.

726
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,519
Speaker 4: But when I got it transferred, I had a change

727
00:35:52,559 --> 00:35:55,440
of venue, and I got the change of venue from Modesto.

728
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,599
I wanted to go to Orange County, and that I

729
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,400
thought that because I wanted a constituency for this guy.

730
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,559
Because you are adult, roous golfers. Where are they going

731
00:36:04,599 --> 00:36:07,400
to find more of them than Orange County instead?

732
00:36:07,599 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 2: True? Right, right to watch all the housewive ex There

733
00:36:11,039 --> 00:36:12,960
was one in the Midwest that I've talked about on

734
00:36:13,159 --> 00:36:14,280
Paint Patron go ahead.

735
00:36:14,639 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 4: So instead they sent me to sam Matteo County, which

736
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,199
is the worst. It's a very conservative, it's next to

737
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,559
the Bay Area, so it was easy for the press

738
00:36:23,599 --> 00:36:24,039
to get there.

739
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:25,679
Speaker 2: What's wrong with them?

740
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 4: Oh my god? How about presumption of innocence? So they

741
00:36:29,639 --> 00:36:35,239
then this is my favorite that and all it did

742
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,320
is it creates It ramped up the nature of the case.

743
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,440
I mean, it got to the point where people would

744
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,960
be commenting on the case. They hadn't been in the courtroom.

745
00:36:45,159 --> 00:36:47,280
They didn't know what happened. I would see New York

746
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,199
commentators talking about the case who had absolutely no idea

747
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,480
what actually happened in the courtroom. Then there you get

748
00:36:52,519 --> 00:36:56,039
stuff like there was at one point the judge said, well,

749
00:36:56,119 --> 00:36:58,400
I'm going to take I'm going to allow the pool

750
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,480
camera to take forty five seconds of Scott Peterson and

751
00:37:01,559 --> 00:37:05,039
the lawyers in the courtroom. So I tell Scott, okay,

752
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,119
just you know, look at whatever we're here. We're going

753
00:37:08,159 --> 00:37:09,119
to do forty five seconds week.

754
00:37:09,159 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 2: Don't for you. I did it out of nowhere.

755
00:37:11,079 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 4: That would be a bad was this one?

756
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:13,280
Speaker 2: His hair was blonde?

757
00:37:13,519 --> 00:37:17,599
Speaker 4: No, okay, but that was because the press was haunting him.

758
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,599
He couldn't go anywhere. I got it. So they keep

759
00:37:20,679 --> 00:37:24,199
playing that same b roll, so everybody would act like

760
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,199
that was from the courtroom that day for the eight months,

761
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,280
and they go he never showed any emotion. I see

762
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,360
you more on. That was the same b roll of

763
00:37:31,599 --> 00:37:33,679
forty five seconds every day.

764
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 2: Right, God, I'm having flashbacks from the LA Courthouse when

765
00:37:36,559 --> 00:37:39,000
we were working. I mean, no, I mean you have.

766
00:37:40,199 --> 00:37:43,239
It's very interesting because you have a different you have

767
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,199
to show it, must drive you insane, which you have

768
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,199
to hear reporters report erroneous information.

769
00:37:50,679 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 4: And I will tell you what's the most and I

770
00:37:53,119 --> 00:37:55,519
and I hate to say it because some I know

771
00:37:55,639 --> 00:37:58,039
and I'm very good friends with, but there's nothing worse

772
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,360
than the entertainment reporters who don't get it right. I mean,

773
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,360
in the celebrity cases, they really kind of draw it down.

774
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,920
I mean, I believe it or not. Somebody like Harvey

775
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,880
at tmscry Harvey actually is a lawyer. Harvey has been

776
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,400
around the criminal courts. He gets it right most of

777
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,119
the time. Some of the entertainment reporters just drive me,

778
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:18,800
like you say, I'm out of my mind.

779
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,280
Speaker 2: Nancy Grace, Nancy Grace, well, let me ask you a question.

780
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 4: Do you know that Wendy I tell Wendy the worst

781
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,599
thing she ever did is she's the one who created Nancy.

782
00:38:29,639 --> 00:38:35,280
Wendy started that show. And it happened because September eleventh,

783
00:38:36,119 --> 00:38:39,599
Barbara Olson, who was on used to be my sparring

784
00:38:39,679 --> 00:38:42,119
partner on Larry King back in the nineties and early

785
00:38:42,199 --> 00:38:46,360
two thousand, so Barbara was coming to LA They were

786
00:38:46,519 --> 00:38:48,280
Wendy want to do a show with Barbara and me?

787
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,559
And she ended up on one of the planes that

788
00:38:51,639 --> 00:38:54,679
went down and died. And she was married to Ted

789
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,639
Olson at the time, who was the Solicitor General in

790
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,840
the Bush administration. So next up, the kind of second

791
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:07,119
tier blonde was a Nancy and a Star was born.

792
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 2: Star was born because she just is so sensationalizing every

793
00:39:11,599 --> 00:39:14,039
I mean I found her when was the top Mom,

794
00:39:14,199 --> 00:39:16,760
the whole top mom and everything that is breaking news tonight.

795
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,519
I mean that's how she starts the show Casey Anthony, Yeah,

796
00:39:20,559 --> 00:39:21,679
the Casey Anthony thing.

797
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:23,559
Speaker 4: Did you think her head was going to explode when

798
00:39:23,639 --> 00:39:24,519
Casey was acquitted?

799
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,159
Speaker 2: God, I couldn't believe she got acquitted though they had.

800
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,039
Speaker 4: They really they really mistried that case. That's all I

801
00:39:33,079 --> 00:39:33,400
can say.

802
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,199
Speaker 2: But who killed? Who killed? John Benet?

803
00:39:38,159 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 4: I really, I really know, am perplexed by that case.

804
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,239
Have you seen the interview of the brother, not the.

805
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 2: Interview of the brother. I know he's starting he's suing CBS.

806
00:39:49,599 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, you've got to see the one with doctor Phil

807
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:53,360
because it's there's.

808
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 2: Something, there's something wrong, there's something Okay, then did you

809
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:56,440
see that either?

810
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 4: I'd love to have some expert tell me what drug

811
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,559
he's on. But he's definitely medicated. This kid is on

812
00:40:04,679 --> 00:40:06,639
happy pills to Base eleven.

813
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,920
Speaker 2: Well that I saw the footage. I watched the CBS,

814
00:40:10,079 --> 00:40:13,360
the two part John Bennet whole thing. They showed the

815
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:17,920
footage of the that they're talking you know, the child

816
00:40:18,039 --> 00:40:20,400
psychiatrist that's talking to him at the time, and it's

817
00:40:20,599 --> 00:40:23,400
right after the kid got murdered her sister. His sister

818
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,679
got murdered, and it's like, how you doing. It's like,

819
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:30,079
I ain't doing fine. I'm good, I'm good. I just

820
00:40:30,159 --> 00:40:32,880
go to school. Well does it bother you everything that's

821
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:34,960
going on and all the reports. Now, I just go

822
00:40:35,159 --> 00:40:38,840
about my day. Like why you're just going about your day?

823
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,639
It's very strange. And you're right, he did kill her.

824
00:40:44,159 --> 00:40:45,440
Well that that's what they said.

825
00:40:45,559 --> 00:40:47,320
Speaker 6: Theory that makes any sense?

826
00:40:48,039 --> 00:40:49,639
Speaker 4: How did he write that ransom note?

827
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 2: He did? He did parents did so the.

828
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:52,559
Speaker 4: Parents covered up for him.

829
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 2: I think Paris off.

830
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,639
Speaker 4: What I'm going to do that I think would be great.

831
00:40:57,039 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 6: Is hire me Livewood.

832
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:04,599
Speaker 4: Lynwood, who is the Ramses libel lawyer, as a friend

833
00:41:04,639 --> 00:41:07,239
of mine, was supposed to be in la I A

834
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,440
should have him come on this show for you to

835
00:41:09,599 --> 00:41:12,440
ask those questions, because I think Lynn would debunk almost

836
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:14,679
all of them. Okay, okay, I think you need that.

837
00:41:15,119 --> 00:41:18,599
Speaker 5: I think the parents my theory, which I already said

838
00:41:18,679 --> 00:41:20,519
last week, and people got mad at me because I

839
00:41:20,559 --> 00:41:21,480
didn't know enough about it.

840
00:41:21,679 --> 00:41:24,679
Speaker 2: It's true. No, yeah, I'm not the lawyer, but I

841
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:25,480
think that the.

842
00:41:25,599 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 5: Parents that the kid, the son did it, and the

843
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:32,159
parents were like felt I mean, they were horrified obviously,

844
00:41:32,599 --> 00:41:36,719
and we're like, fuck, we lost our daughter. Now we're

845
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,360
going to lose our son, like he'll go to jail

846
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,320
for those of his life. We're not losing two kids

847
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,239
in one. And they probably felt almost a sense of

848
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,960
responsibility because this girl probably was like coddled from birth,

849
00:41:47,199 --> 00:41:49,840
like the mommy's little darling, and they probably felt she

850
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,599
probably immediately felt some sense of like, oh my god,

851
00:41:52,639 --> 00:41:55,599
what have I done? Like what happened was the now

852
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,639
hated the sister and killed her. He was having a

853
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:03,400
lady act was having pineapple. No, I don't think no,

854
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,719
I don't think he didn't molest her. She was eating pineapple.

855
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:07,960
He came downstairs.

856
00:42:08,039 --> 00:42:11,280
Speaker 2: There was one of those heavy flashlights on the table,

857
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,239
and she came downstairs. She went to grab out of

858
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,599
his bowl the pineapple. He got pissed off. He took

859
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,280
the flashlight and hit her because they showed on the

860
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:25,639
show the exact you know, the break into the skull,

861
00:42:26,199 --> 00:42:28,960
and they did a reenactment and it made the same

862
00:42:29,119 --> 00:42:30,239
break on the fake.

863
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 4: But now Lynn is suing on behalf of the Ramsey family.

864
00:42:34,119 --> 00:42:35,679
Speaker 2: Correct, Yeah, who's so.

865
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,760
Speaker 4: Would because I don't know. I don't know enough about

866
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,360
the facts of that case, but I'm going to speculate

867
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,800
that if there was any proof whatsoever, Lynn would not

868
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:54,400
be affirmatively suing. Ah, truth is a defense. I don't know.

869
00:42:54,519 --> 00:42:55,480
I don't know. I don't know.

870
00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,559
Speaker 2: Because and then I mean there are and in the

871
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:04,920
underwear was could be DNA from the factory of the

872
00:43:05,039 --> 00:43:08,320
DNA of the person making the underwear. Correct that there

873
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,519
was no DNA didn't match anybody in the house of

874
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,639
in the underwear. So that whole weird underwear DNA crap

875
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,360
was strange. And I think they staged it to make it.

876
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,159
Speaker 5: Look like a murder and they why would they stage

877
00:43:22,199 --> 00:43:24,679
it because yeah, because they were protect like you said,

878
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:25,719
they're protecting the kid.

879
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:27,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate that.

880
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 4: I think you I think I need to get linen here.

881
00:43:31,039 --> 00:43:33,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got this out, I know and I don't.

882
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,119
Speaker 4: Want to it. If we deconstructed, are you going to

883
00:43:35,159 --> 00:43:35,719
fall aparty?

884
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 2: Gotta watch that?

885
00:43:36,559 --> 00:43:37,199
Speaker 4: No, I want it.

886
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 6: I would love to do I would love to hear.

887
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 2: I mean, yes, it was on CBS, you can watch

888
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:43,960
it on iTunes. But and then the window that they

889
00:43:44,039 --> 00:43:47,639
claimed the guy came out of and into had cobwebs

890
00:43:47,679 --> 00:43:50,519
on the side. If you were going into that window

891
00:43:50,639 --> 00:43:54,119
and creeping into the house, you'd clear out the cobwebs there.

892
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,320
You wouldn't have cobwebs on the side of the Windowsill.

893
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 6: Let me ask you this.

894
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:00,679
Speaker 5: Okay that you get asked all the time, I'm sure,

895
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,360
but I have a real curiosity about this. If you

896
00:44:03,519 --> 00:44:06,800
take on a case, and we will say, of course,

897
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,800
no cases in particular, but if your case is brought

898
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:11,679
to you and you feel the person's guilty, but of

899
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,920
course they deserve a trial, and they deserve a fair

900
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,880
trial and somebody to represent them. But what do you

901
00:44:18,159 --> 00:44:19,920
I mean, what do you do if you're like, this

902
00:44:20,079 --> 00:44:24,679
person is foresure guilty because evidence in your life.

903
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 4: I never have that problem.

904
00:44:26,119 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 2: You don't.

905
00:44:26,559 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 4: My problem is what if they're foresure innocent? That's what

906
00:44:30,599 --> 00:44:34,719
really gives me sleepless nights. That's really and what if

907
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,480
I haven't done everything to show that or to get

908
00:44:37,519 --> 00:44:41,360
them out, That's really what because everybody, contrary to what

909
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:43,920
you say, in the system, nobody comes into a courtroom

910
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,599
and presumes anybody's innocent. I mean, the one the jurors

911
00:44:46,599 --> 00:44:51,679
who actually tell the truth will say, well, if he's here, obviously,

912
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,440
whether there's smoke, there's fire. I mean, that's what everybody believes. Nobody.

913
00:44:55,039 --> 00:44:58,880
The only person, if only person he gets presumption of

914
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:02,400
innocence is our that's it. Cops, right charge get a

915
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,800
presumption of innocence. No civilian gets a presumption of innocence.

916
00:45:06,159 --> 00:45:09,559
Maybe a celebrity gets a presumption of innocence sometimes.

917
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 5: Okay, but what if there is what if there's proof

918
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,719
of guilt? And now you've got to figure out Okay,

919
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:17,559
but I've got to come up with like circumstances.

920
00:45:17,199 --> 00:45:20,599
Speaker 4: Archeology, say, take the worst crime, which is murder. Murder

921
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:24,639
is just one demarcation of a homicide. Homicide is the

922
00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:26,880
killing of another. So I can know that the client

923
00:45:27,079 --> 00:45:30,320
is good for the crime. And I've got I can

924
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,119
think of one case in particular that was tried three times.

925
00:45:34,519 --> 00:45:40,039
There's clearly the guy's daughter died prosecutions. Theory was that

926
00:45:40,159 --> 00:45:41,480
he threw her off the cliff.

927
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,639
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I wanted to ask you about that one.

928
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And my theory always was, no, he didn't

929
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,599
throw off the cliff, but yes, they could convict him

930
00:45:50,639 --> 00:45:54,760
of involuntary manslaughter for being you know, for letting the

931
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,159
kid get close enough to the edge of the cliff

932
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,199
at age four, whatever she wants. So that is not

933
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,760
that presents no problem to me. I don't think that

934
00:46:05,079 --> 00:46:08,360
somebody should be convicted of an intentional murder with special

935
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,480
circumstances and get life on a case that's basically an

936
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:12,320
accident because.

937
00:46:12,159 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 2: You were neglive that that could go either way.

938
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 5: That's like the hot car, right, But what if you

939
00:46:16,159 --> 00:46:18,599
have a case that you have to try, Like, what

940
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:23,000
if there's a person like raped and murdered somebody and

941
00:46:23,119 --> 00:46:23,719
there's DNA.

942
00:46:24,079 --> 00:46:28,519
Speaker 4: Well, generally, I'll tell you this, Generally the client and

943
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:30,679
I've been doing this for almost thirty five years, is

944
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,519
never going to admit they did it. I mean, so

945
00:46:34,159 --> 00:46:37,400
that's point number one. Nobody ever people, as you say,

946
00:46:37,559 --> 00:46:40,840
either a compartmentalize or do whatever. Second of if there's DNA,

947
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,679
all that tells you is that the person was there,

948
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,480
if the DNA was done right, And I don't know

949
00:46:46,519 --> 00:46:49,039
if it's consensual, I don't know, and I guarantee you

950
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,519
in most sex cases the people claim that it's consensual.

951
00:46:52,679 --> 00:46:56,679
So I certainly can't play god on that. And if

952
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,559
there is a situation where I think the evidence is overwhelming,

953
00:46:59,599 --> 00:47:01,840
then it's my duty to convince them to try and

954
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:03,079
get a plea, try to get a.

955
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,760
Speaker 2: Ohkay, that's that's kind of what I wanted to know.

956
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I'm not I tell clients all the time,

957
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,239
I'm not here to let you go down on a

958
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:14,519
suicide mission. If I think that there's no way we

959
00:47:14,639 --> 00:47:16,480
can prevail, I'm going to tell you that I'm going

960
00:47:16,559 --> 00:47:18,599
to try and work something out. And that's what I do.

961
00:47:19,079 --> 00:47:21,800
I mean, if you get a diagnosis, God forbid that

962
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,679
you've got a serious disease, the doctors and say, well,

963
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,079
you're an asshole. You should die anyway, No, he tries

964
00:47:27,159 --> 00:47:27,599
to save you.

965
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:33,199
Speaker 2: Mark. Yes, Yeah, so interesting. I know how you've been

966
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:34,280
doing this how many years?

967
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,519
Speaker 4: Almost? Wow? Since nineteen eighty three?

968
00:47:38,079 --> 00:47:38,320
Speaker 2: Wow?

969
00:47:38,559 --> 00:47:40,599
Speaker 4: And I did it. My father did a performance, So

970
00:47:40,639 --> 00:47:42,840
I grew up following my dad around my dad. When

971
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,079
I started knowing or having a memory, he was a

972
00:47:46,159 --> 00:47:48,840
prosecutor and I would follow him the court. In fact,

973
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:50,400
right down the street in Glendale. He was head of

974
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,880
Glendale when I was a youngster, and I remember watching

975
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:55,559
him in court. He was kind of my idol. Plus,

976
00:47:55,639 --> 00:47:57,039
I thought, this is the greatest job in the world.

977
00:47:57,079 --> 00:47:59,239
He's a prosecutor. He goes in, you spend like two

978
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,559
and a half hours, then you take a two hour lunch,

979
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:03,880
then they've got donuts in the morning, and then you know,

980
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,440
they do something else and he's we're home by five o'clock.

981
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,480
I thought they raised is not exactly everyone.

982
00:48:09,599 --> 00:48:12,079
Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about you personally for a second, because

983
00:48:12,119 --> 00:48:14,519
people hear all your opinions on everything, and I know

984
00:48:14,639 --> 00:48:17,679
we could go years talking to you here. But because

985
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:19,960
I don't think the public knows a lot about the

986
00:48:20,079 --> 00:48:22,599
person that you are, you know, I want to say

987
00:48:22,639 --> 00:48:26,400
something because it's interesting you said that you followed your dad,

988
00:48:26,519 --> 00:48:28,920
Because when I was in the court house and you're

989
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,440
defending us, your daughter was in there every like almost

990
00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,840
as much as she could be every day with smiles,

991
00:48:36,039 --> 00:48:40,920
all smiles, super friendly, like asking questions, interested, wanted.

992
00:48:40,679 --> 00:48:43,039
Speaker 4: To know what were just waiting for bar results right

993
00:48:43,119 --> 00:48:45,119
now and working for one of my closest friends in

994
00:48:45,159 --> 00:48:48,599
the world in New York. She just graduated, graduated from Loyola,

995
00:48:48,679 --> 00:48:50,840
my alma mater, and she's working for Ben Brosley.

996
00:48:51,280 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 2: She's working for who is she working for?

997
00:48:53,199 --> 00:48:56,360
Speaker 4: Ben bro Ben? Ben was the one actually, Ben and

998
00:48:56,519 --> 00:49:00,480
Johnny Cochran tried Johnny's last case, which was Puff, which

999
00:49:00,639 --> 00:49:04,880
was Puffy in New York, and Ben and I had

1000
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,880
Michael together, and Ben most recently, I mean he's got

1001
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,639
Ben's always got a great client list. He did Dominic

1002
00:49:11,679 --> 00:49:14,119
strass Khan, which is the guy who was accused of

1003
00:49:14,599 --> 00:49:17,519
raping the maid and he was the former head of

1004
00:49:17,599 --> 00:49:20,400
the International Monetary find I'm surprised you don't know this one.

1005
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:21,519
You would have convicted him.

1006
00:49:22,599 --> 00:49:27,280
Speaker 2: In fact, the DA we're not, We're a superwoman. She's

1007
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:31,119
got to take a break sleep. But so yeah, his

1008
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:35,320
daughter just graduated at NYU law school and she's she

1009
00:49:35,639 --> 00:49:38,679
idolizes him like it was so why wouldn't she Look,

1010
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,639
I know, I know my daughter's gonna hate her. She

1011
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:42,880
already hates her dad. Now.

1012
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 4: No, Natalia actually likes Tenny a lot.

1013
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 2: She she stayed with Denny's his daughter. Yeah, Tenny Tenny.

1014
00:49:53,599 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 4: In fact, I named a restaurant after her.

1015
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:58,679
Speaker 6: Yes, you have lost my name? What you need lost

1016
00:49:58,800 --> 00:49:59,159
my name?

1017
00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 4: Unique name?

1018
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 6: Is she going to find a book that has the

1019
00:50:03,039 --> 00:50:03,760
name Tenny in it?

1020
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,599
Speaker 4: I named a restaurant after which is better than a book.

1021
00:50:06,639 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 2: Downtown l A. And we're going to have a I'm

1022
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,320
working with your wife. We're going to have a charity event.

1023
00:50:11,679 --> 00:50:15,079
Speaker 4: Good. Yeah, I wondered why we haven't done a endless ran.

1024
00:50:15,559 --> 00:50:18,599
We're going to steal my tap? What is that?

1025
00:50:19,599 --> 00:50:22,760
Speaker 6: My ta take over? I steal my sure up now

1026
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:24,159
like steal my tap?

1027
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:28,039
Speaker 4: Okay, well, that's one of my favorite pictures.

1028
00:50:28,159 --> 00:50:29,800
Speaker 2: That's one of my favorite pictures of all time.

1029
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,000
Speaker 4: If you fast forward three hours after that, we were

1030
00:50:34,079 --> 00:50:38,239
both at a point two five finishing off. I won't

1031
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:40,320
even give a plug, We'll just say a lot of out.

1032
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:45,199
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, it was the taq you. Adam was like,

1033
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,559
as soon as the judge hits the gable, I'm out here.

1034
00:50:48,599 --> 00:50:50,480
I'm going to work and I'm like, I'm staying. I

1035
00:50:50,559 --> 00:50:52,440
want to hang out with garretgos and his team, And

1036
00:50:52,639 --> 00:50:54,480
so I walked back to the office. It was the

1037
00:50:54,519 --> 00:50:57,119
happiest day of my life. We were done with the case.

1038
00:50:57,159 --> 00:50:59,679
It was over, and he was like, let his whole

1039
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:02,360
team there. He's like, let's go downstairs to Tenny. Let's

1040
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:05,119
all celebrate. We ate, and and then I couldn't drive

1041
00:51:05,159 --> 00:51:07,400
and he's like, of course you're not driving. I said,

1042
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:08,880
I'll call an uber. He's like, no, no, no, no,

1043
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:11,440
there's a car, right, I mean, he's can I also

1044
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,079
tell you this. Did you see your magazine? Did you

1045
00:51:14,119 --> 00:51:16,920
see the LA Weekly or whatever that's out there. There's

1046
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:21,639
the picture of the article that's out right now. Okay, okay,

1047
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,320
So I told your wife, this is incredible. When you

1048
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:28,440
google my name, this was happening. When you google my name,

1049
00:51:28,599 --> 00:51:31,519
there's my picture comes up. But then because of this

1050
00:51:31,639 --> 00:51:36,119
whole Southwest fiasco bullshit, somebody like did a blog like

1051
00:51:36,199 --> 00:51:38,960
didn't believe my story and put up a picture of

1052
00:51:39,159 --> 00:51:42,760
like a chick like from Southwest Airlines uh stewardess and

1053
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,119
behind her was a chick like passed out on the

1054
00:51:45,159 --> 00:51:48,679
floor and it was blurred out, so like insinuating that's me.

1055
00:51:49,519 --> 00:51:51,960
And I wouldn't care if I had two things, if

1056
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:53,480
I didn't have kids, I don't want my kids to

1057
00:51:53,559 --> 00:51:56,679
see that and be and number two. I'm running an

1058
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,280
alcohol company. Now I don't need to have that's the

1059
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,039
second pickture sure that comes up, like fuck you dude.

1060
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:06,000
So we try boobs no, and so we tried to

1061
00:52:06,079 --> 00:52:08,280
get that picture down and I was like, Dylan, what

1062
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,840
are we doing? How? Why can't we get And then

1063
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:12,840
I said, you know what, ask Mark? Just ask Mark,

1064
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,119
just just have it ready to go when he walks in,

1065
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:17,480
so don't waste his time. Say what do I do

1066
00:52:17,559 --> 00:52:21,119
about this? He calls me an hour later, Dylan the

1067
00:52:21,159 --> 00:52:23,679
guy over there at the one of the lackeys, and

1068
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:25,400
he said, Mark said, I'll take care of it. I

1069
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:29,320
was like, really, Two days later, I google it gone gone?

1070
00:52:29,559 --> 00:52:31,440
How did you do that? I was trying to look

1071
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,760
for just now you can't find it. It's gone. God

1072
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:37,639
bless you. I'm framing that that article out there that

1073
00:52:37,679 --> 00:52:39,199
passed you. I'm going to frame it for you as

1074
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:39,480
a gift.

1075
00:52:39,559 --> 00:52:40,079
Speaker 6: How do you do that?

1076
00:52:40,159 --> 00:52:42,360
Speaker 2: It's just one phone? How do you do that? Mark?

1077
00:52:42,679 --> 00:52:50,679
Mark down? That's fucking awesome. I give oh, I have Oh,

1078
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:51,119
you have to go.

1079
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:51,639
Speaker 4: I have to go.

1080
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 2: Chris Brown's calling.

1081
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 4: That's why.

1082
00:52:54,599 --> 00:53:01,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, something happened. Thank you much.

1083
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 4: Youre awesome you.

1084
00:53:03,039 --> 00:53:06,519
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Oh my god, I love him

1085
00:53:06,599 --> 00:53:10,920
so much. That was I get the chills. Like he's

1086
00:53:11,039 --> 00:53:13,840
isn't he the greatest? Adam loves him heart. You know

1087
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:14,599
what I always think.

1088
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:19,519
Speaker 5: I always feel like if something happened and I got

1089
00:53:19,559 --> 00:53:22,360
accused of murder, like you just think I'd be You'd

1090
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:23,320
be so screwed if.

1091
00:53:23,199 --> 00:53:25,079
Speaker 2: You have to have a stupid public defender. Sad.

1092
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,320
Speaker 5: But you need people like him because you need somebody

1093
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:30,119
to like hairs yeah and takes.

1094
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:30,599
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1095
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,159
Speaker 5: I love that, he said, Like I what keeps me

1096
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,159
up at night is not that they're guilty, but that

1097
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:36,159
if they're innocent.

1098
00:53:37,559 --> 00:53:39,559
Speaker 6: I mean, you need that, you need more people.

1099
00:53:39,599 --> 00:53:43,559
Speaker 2: He's super bright. I know. I it's it makes me sad,

1100
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:46,440
It really does to think about all the people out

1101
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,199
there that can't, that don't have the garagoss of the world,

1102
00:53:49,519 --> 00:53:52,280
no defending them, and they're just going through their job

1103
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:54,800
and getting done and clocking out at five o'clock and

1104
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:57,360
don't give a shit. And then they're innocent people behind

1105
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,719
bars or whatever. Yeah. And then the problem too is.

1106
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,320
Speaker 6: That there's the public defenders, people who can't afford the mark.

1107
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 2: They It might not be that they don't care.

1108
00:54:08,159 --> 00:54:10,199
Speaker 5: But a lot of times it's the same thing with

1109
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:13,559
like children, the foster care system, like child protecting.

1110
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:15,920
Speaker 2: They're overloaded because it's.

1111
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 5: The government is paying for it, and they have like

1112
00:54:19,079 --> 00:54:21,639
too many cases right and they can't take their time

1113
00:54:22,039 --> 00:54:24,840
and just worry about getting Chris Brown off or just

1114
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:30,360
worrying about getting guilty Scott Peterson. I know, Sorry, Mark,

1115
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:34,119
we were talking about Peterson is where he always my friend?

1116
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, we I talked to him. We had a whole

1117
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,920
conversation at that and he said, listen, somebody said something.

1118
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,079
It was out of his friends. Don't worry. He drank

1119
00:54:43,119 --> 00:54:45,000
the kool aid. You're not going to get anywhere with him.

1120
00:54:45,039 --> 00:54:47,239
Linnette like, well, because you can't.

1121
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:48,159
Speaker 6: I don't think you can.

1122
00:54:48,519 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 2: This is why I told him.

1123
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 6: I was like, I know, we're not going to talk

1124
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:52,480
about anything. You can't be like.

1125
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:55,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, that guy was guilty right right then. I think

1126
00:54:55,599 --> 00:54:57,559
they would have a case right now.

1127
00:54:57,679 --> 00:55:00,599
Speaker 5: But it's interesting to your back they'd be able to

1128
00:55:00,679 --> 00:55:02,880
say my lawyer went out and started saying like that

1129
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:03,559
I was guilty.

1130
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 2: Like so he believed that he's guilty the whole No,

1131
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:09,760
but it's interesting to hear what after the fact him continue.

1132
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 6: But what about this?

1133
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 2: But what about the boats? But what about that? And

1134
00:55:12,559 --> 00:55:15,440
you imagine how much he has an answer forever. Imagine

1135
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:17,760
I mean, you see, I mean, he's a good looking guy,

1136
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:19,960
but the bags, and I mean he looks so tired,

1137
00:55:20,039 --> 00:55:23,079
and he's on CNN like every five seconds talking about something.

1138
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:26,320
You know, God bless Mark Arras. He's really a great

1139
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,039
guy and his kids are wonderful, and thank.

1140
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,480
Speaker 5: God there's somebody to defend Chris Brown think, I know,

1141
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,480
I know, and he seems like a great guy.

1142
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 3: And the podcast Reasonable Doubt is honestly such an amazing podcast.

1143
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:40,320
Speaker 2: I've got to put I've got it. You should listen.

1144
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 3: Him and Adam have a great kind of back and forth.

1145
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,679
And you know, Mark tends to be a little more liberal,

1146
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:49,960
whereas Adam tends to be a little more conservative. But

1147
00:55:50,039 --> 00:55:53,039
they always, somehow always tend to meet in the middle,

1148
00:55:53,039 --> 00:55:55,280
and they always seem to agree with each other, even

1149
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:57,400
though you know, they're both kind of a little bit

1150
00:55:57,480 --> 00:55:59,760
off to each side of every issue. And it's it's

1151
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:02,679
really interesting to have like Adam's kind of intuition mixed

1152
00:56:02,679 --> 00:56:05,719
with Mars just pure straight knowledge of the law and

1153
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:06,559
law enforcement.

1154
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:07,519
Speaker 5: It's an awesome.

1155
00:56:07,519 --> 00:56:07,800
Speaker 4: Boss.

1156
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,639
Speaker 5: I love that he's funny, and I love that he

1157
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:15,239
was like, Okay, white, you know, privileged or whatever.

1158
00:56:15,519 --> 00:56:17,360
Speaker 2: This is how you think it's so interesting?

1159
00:56:18,039 --> 00:56:20,639
Speaker 5: I'm sure I do have many biases that I wouldn't

1160
00:56:20,639 --> 00:56:23,199
even know that I have, right, you know, I mean,

1161
00:56:23,199 --> 00:56:23,599
I'm right.

1162
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 2: I can't wait to watch the show Notorious.

1163
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:27,280
Speaker 4: It's awesome.

1164
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:31,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems good. Yeah to check that out. That's nice.

1165
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:31,639
Speaker 4: That's it.

1166
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:35,119
Speaker 2: Thank you, guys, Thanks everybody. We love you, guys. I

1167
00:56:35,199 --> 00:56:37,800
love you guys. You're a parent. Now, don't f it

1168
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:39,599
Speaker 6: Up, please, I'll cahol pleating sensibly