Speaker 1: Oh hey, it's your invisible aligners. You don't wear anywhere
Speaker 1: near twenty two hours a day and they know it
Speaker 1: and you know it. Alli Ward back with another episode
Speaker 1: of Ologies. I'm alive, y'all. I slept so many hours
Speaker 1: over the last couple of weeks dealing with this slu
Speaker 1: Who When are you listening to this? Are you turning
Speaker 1: the coffee pot on and feeding the dog? Are you
Speaker 1: on the seven a m. Train to work? Is it
Speaker 1: your lunch break and you have half a burrito spinding
Speaker 1: slowly into microwave? Maybe the sun is setting while you
Speaker 1: walk to your car. Are you nursing a human who
Speaker 1: has decided to snack on your boobadge at four am?
Speaker 1: At least once a day. It seems we look at
Speaker 1: a clock and we're cranky about it, myself very much
Speaker 1: so all the time. So we are here to talk
Speaker 1: about why. But first we're gonna talk about you saying
Speaker 1: thank you so much for supporting via Patreon dot com
Speaker 1: slash Ologies, for sending in your questions that way, for
Speaker 1: wearing Ologies shirts and hats from ologiesmerch dot com. We
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Speaker 1: leaving a review. You know I'm gonna a lurk them
Speaker 1: just like a gentle happy creep so I can read
Speaker 1: one back to you, such as this week's Megan Wint
Speaker 1: left for review and said I'm in bed with my
Speaker 1: What Is Real book and my binoculars to look out
Speaker 1: at the moon all because of this podcast. Just when
Speaker 1: I thought I couldn't develop hobbies outside of my career,
Speaker 1: this podcast came along and made me love science again.
Speaker 1: I attend star parties, bake bread, got my flu shot
Speaker 1: for the first time because of this podcast. Everyone should
Speaker 1: give it a try, even if you hate podcasts like
Speaker 1: I did, because everyone should question, examine, and value our
Speaker 1: little blips of existence in the world more often. Thanks
Speaker 1: for helping my serotonin receptors, dad word, Megan Win, thanks
Speaker 1: for getting a flu shot as someone who was just
Speaker 1: in bed for a week with it. I should have
Speaker 1: gotten one also well. Also shout out to rvecat Daddy
Speaker 1: who's going through a rough time in a tiny house
Speaker 1: with a few felines. May your next birthday not involve
Speaker 1: a divorce. I tell you, I read all of them, folks. Anyway,
Speaker 1: Crona biology comes from you guessed it, Greek friends always
Speaker 1: putting things in our word holes. So kronos means time.
Speaker 1: Biology means the study of life. So it's a very
Speaker 1: real branch of science dedicated to understanding how temporal rhythms
Speaker 1: affect life. And that can be such as daily or
Speaker 1: weekly or seasonal or annual rhythms and circadian rhythms. I'll
Speaker 1: break that down. Circa means around da a day. So
Speaker 1: those are the kind that a lot of us might
Speaker 1: be most bent about because those are the daily rhythms.
Speaker 1: So we're going to get into it. So this ologist
Speaker 1: I know from Twitter. She hosts the podcast Endocrine Disruptors,
Speaker 1: which dives into things like your adrenal glands and your
Speaker 1: ovaries and your nerds and how your hormones get jacked.
Speaker 1: So she got her bachelor's degree in biology at the
Speaker 1: University of Tennessee focusing on biokem, and her masters at
Speaker 1: Northwestern's neurobiology program with the focus You're ready for this
Speaker 1: sex Differences in circadian influence on alcoholic induced cut lakiness
Speaker 1: and implications for alcoholic liver disease. She loves this stuff
Speaker 1: so right now, she's in the middle of her PhD
Speaker 1: at the University of Illinois at Urbana Champagne, and she
Speaker 1: says her first research love is circadian biology, but she's
Speaker 1: also fascinated by how hormones affect and are affected by
Speaker 1: daily patterns. So we get into it now. I wasn't
Speaker 1: able to make it to Illinois to record this, but
Speaker 1: I was thirsty as hell for this topic. Quite frankly,
Speaker 1: I needed to be scared straight when it came to
Speaker 1: my shitty sleep patterns. They're so shitty, they're so bad.
Speaker 1: So she graciously crammed herself into the world's tiniest sound
Speaker 1: booth in Illinois on a hot July day, and we
Speaker 1: chatted over video screen about what happens in our brain
Speaker 1: when we sleep and when we don't sleep. We talk
Speaker 1: about jet lag and alarm clocks and how rest affects
Speaker 1: your gonets and chronotypes and giraffes and eyemasks and early
Speaker 1: birds and night owls and botox and light pollution. So
Speaker 1: go tuck yourself in and let's wade together into the
Speaker 1: comfortable darkness with chronobiologist Catherine Hatcher.
Speaker 2: Hi, you're here.
Speaker 3: Hi, We've put you in a tiny booth across the country. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and it's Midwest summer, which means it's hot as balls outside.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. It's all right. Bolt's character.
Speaker 3: Yeah, brain brains, brains brains. And so now you are
Speaker 3: a neuroscience student. Correct?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: Are you? You're getting your PhD in neuroscience?
Speaker 2: Yes, I am.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, how did that happen?
Speaker 2: Oh jeez. So I was one of those kids in
Speaker 2: college who thought I wanted to go to medical school.
Speaker 2: And I joined this lab that they were studying the
Speaker 2: impacts of different compounds on circadian rhythms and looking at
Speaker 2: very basic science questions. And so I joined this lab
Speaker 2: and I just wanted to do it to boost my resume.
Speaker 2: And I got about halfway through that semester and I
Speaker 2: was like, screw medical school. I don't like people. And
Speaker 2: I realized how much I really enjoyed scientific research. Well,
Speaker 2: the world did not agree with me, and I didn't
Speaker 2: get into graduate school. When I first applied. I lied
Speaker 2: to like six schools and nobody accepted me. And that happens.
Speaker 2: And so I went and taught high school actually for
Speaker 2: a couple of years and then decided to go back
Speaker 2: to school to get my masters. So I did a
Speaker 2: master's in neurobiology, and during that time I applied to
Speaker 2: PhD programs again and got in to two out of
Speaker 2: the flour I applied nice and one of them was
Speaker 2: one that I had applied to originally, and I was like,
Speaker 2: you guys didn't accept me the first time. I'm the
Speaker 2: same person, but I knew that I wanted to. This
Speaker 2: was actually my top program. So I'm at the University
Speaker 2: of Illinois down in Urbana, Champagne, which is basically just
Speaker 2: a bunch of corn fields and soybean fields.
Speaker 1: So Catherine's worked on various neurobiology projects while there, but
Speaker 1: her PhD dissertation, by the bye is studying this class
Speaker 1: of compounds found in plastics and polyvinyl chlorides and makeup
Speaker 1: and fragrances to see how exposure to them affects sleep
Speaker 1: quality and depression in women who are starting to go
Speaker 1: through the menopause or like myself, whose ovaries quit early randomly.
Speaker 1: So these compounds are called tholates, and that word starts
Speaker 1: with a phdh and thalates appear to be just potentially
Speaker 1: terrible for your body. And your endocrine system. But they
Speaker 1: are awesome for a game of scrabble. When you just
Speaker 1: have so many h's going back, you couldn't have always
Speaker 1: been interested in neuroscience has a toddy because you can't
Speaker 1: really poke brains as a we one, And did you
Speaker 1: get interested in science?
Speaker 2: So I'll be one hundred percent honest. I was like
Speaker 2: the worst, one of the worst people for this story
Speaker 2: because I hated science for a very long time.
Speaker 3: So this is good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess it's interesting. But I've always been fascinated
Speaker 2: by animals and I've always loved animals, and I should
Speaker 2: have realized. I think my sophomore year of high school
Speaker 2: at my school district, we took biology, and so I
Speaker 2: remember taking biology and doing dissections and stuff and we
Speaker 2: got to dissect fetal pigs and this is gross but whatever.
Speaker 2: So it was myself and two other people in a
Speaker 2: group dissecting this fetal pig, and then the teacher was like,
Speaker 2: if you get the brain out and like good quality,
Speaker 2: then you get bonus points. So there I have, like
Speaker 2: challenge accepted. And then I just the two guys that
Speaker 2: were in my group, they were like, Nope, not touching that.
Speaker 2: I was like, fine, it's gonna be me. So then
Speaker 2: it was me doing it. But then I thought at
Speaker 2: the time or by the way, I did get the
Speaker 2: brain out and it was beautiful and my teacher was impressed.
Speaker 3: How did you do it? Did you have to crack
Speaker 3: it like a coconut?
Speaker 2: Yes, there's like an art to cracking skulls.
Speaker 1: Are you ready for Katherine Hatcher? Get ready for Katherine Hatcher?
Speaker 1: So you got this pig brain out?
Speaker 2: Yes? So I got this pig brain out. That's like
Speaker 2: my first remembrance of like anything related to brain that
Speaker 2: fascinated me. But it was more from a curiosity mechanical standpoint.
Speaker 2: But I was also one of those hits that was
Speaker 2: super fascinated by like weird medical mysteries and stuff. So
Speaker 2: I had this interest in medicine and physiology and this
Speaker 2: curiosity about it. But I thought that I didn't think
Speaker 2: that science was anything beyond medicine, Like I didn't understand
Speaker 2: what science was. My parents and like my dad's a lawyer,
Speaker 2: my mom's an art teacher. They have no idea like
Speaker 2: anything about science.
Speaker 1: So Catherine loved writing and being creative, but took an
Speaker 1: undergrad class in how muscles work and thought, well, this
Speaker 1: shit's cool. I'll just go to medical school, which turned
Speaker 1: into I'll study biochemistry, which turned into wait, I love
Speaker 1: psychology and human behavior too, so maybe neuroscience is like
Speaker 1: all of that. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I thought the questions were fascinating. I have some people
Speaker 2: in my family who have alcohol addiction, and so this
Speaker 2: concept of like how does alcohol affect the brain has
Speaker 2: been something that's been really interesting to me, just as
Speaker 2: from a more personal standpoint, and so I was kind
Speaker 2: of trying to slowly pursue those questions and then realize,
Speaker 2: Like it was this realization that oh, science can be
Speaker 2: a career. You don't just have to be a medical
Speaker 2: doctor or a veterinarian or you know, a pharmacist or
Speaker 2: something to be in science. You can do so many
Speaker 2: other things.
Speaker 1: So time as a whole is ticket. So let's get
Speaker 1: to the nitty gritty of chronobiology. What is a circadian rhythm?
Speaker 1: How do you describe that to someone?
Speaker 2: So my favorite way to describe circadian rhythms is that
Speaker 2: they are their behaviors or biological processes that exhibit some
Speaker 2: sort of twenty four hour pattern, which means we see
Speaker 2: the same approximate peak and prof in that pattern every
Speaker 2: single day. So some examples of what these would be.
Speaker 2: I think the most common people think of as sleep
Speaker 2: and wake activity, because that's obviously the most interesting to us.
Speaker 2: Just immediately, we quote unquote sleep at the same time
Speaker 2: every day and quote unquote get up at the same
Speaker 2: time every day. Humans are weird because we can be
Speaker 2: conscious and make choices about when we get up or
Speaker 2: go to sleep. But generally most species they get up
Speaker 2: and go to bed at around the same time every day.
Speaker 1: Is that just because that's when night falls and they're
Speaker 1: kind of more vulnerable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So there's some thought that you know, your circadian rhythm,
Speaker 2: at least with a lot of wild species or wild animals,
Speaker 2: is going to depend on whether or not you're a
Speaker 2: predator or prey and what you are hunting, what food
Speaker 2: is of interest to you. So an owl is going
Speaker 2: to be awake at night because it hunts mice, which
Speaker 2: are also up at night for the most part, most
Speaker 2: of them, and so the owl is going to of
Speaker 2: course be nocturnal because that's when it's food is available.
Speaker 2: Goad soups on humans, you know, I think we have
Speaker 2: not adapted to be functional at night. Most of we're
Speaker 2: kind of weird. We've evolved to be able to make
Speaker 2: the choice of when we want to get up or
Speaker 2: go to bed. But for the most part, our food
Speaker 2: we were able to hunt during the day or you know,
Speaker 2: at the late parts of the day.
Speaker 1: Or now you just take the yell aap and you
Speaker 1: just toggle open. Now you're like, what are my options here?
Speaker 3: Seven eleven? Fine?
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's on Uber eats today? What's whose delivery fee
Speaker 2: is the cheapest right now?
Speaker 1: I know. I wonder if that means that people, say
Speaker 1: in New York, where they have more open late options,
Speaker 1: tend to have a different sleep cycle than people in
Speaker 1: say Sedona, which I visited, and their late night eating
Speaker 1: options are shit. I ate fruit salad from Circle K
Speaker 1: after a wedding sucked Sedona on blast.
Speaker 3: But like, dif you get.
Speaker 2: Married in Sedona, have a late night food option at
Speaker 2: your wedding.
Speaker 3: Oh god, yes, oh my god. Starving, y'all.
Speaker 1: I drove around Sedona, Arizona at ten pm. Nothing was open.
Speaker 1: I went back to my hotel. I had to eat
Speaker 1: the inside of a soggy tuna wrap with a spork
Speaker 1: in a cocktail gown. It was a beautiful wedding though
Speaker 1: they're still married, I still like them. Also, a circadian
Speaker 1: rhythm is something internal driven, but diurnal rhythms are just
Speaker 1: regarding the day or night cycle. So an outside factor
Speaker 1: like light or temperature that affects your internal circadian rhythms,
Speaker 1: that's called a zightkeeper, which sounds like an Austrian word
Speaker 1: for like a wool bonnet or an antelope saddle. But yes, okay, light,
Speaker 1: But do you think that our environment, even in a
Speaker 1: city versus a rural area, changes the way that we sleep?
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
Speaker 3: Really, I think, and I don't.
Speaker 2: I there's probably some evidence in some research done looking
Speaker 2: at the differences between rural and urban populations, but I
Speaker 2: think there's kind of two major drivers, one of them
Speaker 2: being light and then one of them being food availability.
Speaker 2: But I think probably the biggest difference, especially with humans,
Speaker 2: is going to be the difference between light exposure. While
Speaker 2: there might be some light out in the country, it's
Speaker 2: not going to be as intense and bright as you
Speaker 2: know in the city, where it's everywhere you can't get
Speaker 2: away from it.
Speaker 1: Okay. So I ventured into the wilderness of research, and
Speaker 1: I stumbled onto one twenty fourteen Portuguese study titled Differences
Speaker 1: in Circadian Patterns between Rural and Urban populations an epidemiological
Speaker 1: study in the countryside. So after analyzing sleep questionnaires of
Speaker 1: a few thousand people, these Portuguese scientists found that compared
Speaker 1: with the urban population, the rural population had earlier sleep
Speaker 1: patterns Nadai. Rural folks also tended to have less what
Speaker 1: scientists call social jet lag, which is when you sleep
Speaker 1: in later on your days off and then you feel
Speaker 1: wrecked on a Monday morning. But they did find higher
Speaker 1: light exposure in the rural population, a higher prevalence of
Speaker 1: psychiatric disorders in the rural population, but fewer metabolic diseases.
Speaker 1: There was also a Bengali study and their sleep questionnaires
Speaker 1: revealed that urban adult populations had crappier sleep than the
Speaker 1: rural ladies slipt the worst. So here we are thinking
Speaker 1: that the youth, with their gaming devices and meme screens
Speaker 1: and late night shenanigans have the crappiest sleep, But really
Speaker 1: we got a world of zombie moms and woozy women
Speaker 1: hormones to blame. Who knows now. Worst city in the
Speaker 1: US for light pollution. I looked into it and according
Speaker 1: to a study done this year by the website sleep Chunkie, Washington,
Speaker 1: DC is the most light polluted sound pollution. You're wondering,
Speaker 1: look no further than my home, Los Angeles, which was
Speaker 1: rated the least peaceful place to live in America. I'm
Speaker 1: no data scientist, but is it any wonder that LA
Speaker 1: also ranks and I look this up the highest in
Speaker 1: the number of groupons sold for botox. Let's just stay
Speaker 1: up all night tossing and turning, and then easy peasy,
Speaker 1: inject botulism in our faces to look rested. What could
Speaker 1: go wrong?
Speaker 2: There might be more of an inclination, or maybe people
Speaker 2: who are night owls are more attracted to city life
Speaker 2: because there's.
Speaker 1: Nowhere to do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's good point. Correlation, non causation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so why do we need circadian rhythms? So?
Speaker 3: Do they? Does regularity make us healthier?
Speaker 2: So I'll answer first question. So why do we need
Speaker 2: circadian rhythms? We know that our bodies have evolved, All
Speaker 2: species have evolved with this twenty four hour pattern of
Speaker 2: light and dark, and circadian rhythms are more so related
Speaker 2: to the twenty four hour day. We think of this
Speaker 2: twenty four hour pattern of sunrise and sunset, and so
Speaker 2: we've evolved to these conditions. So really we think that
Speaker 2: it's a way to optimize our biology and our behavior
Speaker 2: so that we can be the most successful in fitness
Speaker 2: and the most successful in terms of our reproductive ability,
Speaker 2: in terms of our survival. But the biggest thing is
Speaker 2: that we know that there's some sort of indirect or
Speaker 2: direct connection between circadian disruption and health.
Speaker 3: What kinds of.
Speaker 1: Say, negative effects happen when your circadian rhythm is screwed up?
Speaker 3: How am I going to die?
Speaker 2: So there's thought that there's increased risk of cancers, and yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm mainly interested in like reproduction and reproductive capacity. So
Speaker 2: I know that there's some changes in fertility. There's changes
Speaker 2: in increased risk of reproductive cancers. There's increased risk of
Speaker 2: metabolic disorders like type two diabetes. There's increased risk of obesity,
Speaker 2: but whether or not that's a bad thing, we're not
Speaker 2: one hundred percent sure. There's increased risk of stroke and
Speaker 2: heart attack. So I've even seen things as crazy as
Speaker 2: if we disrupt and these are an animals, of these
Speaker 2: are in animal models, But when we disrupt circadian rhythms
Speaker 2: before an animal gets pregnant, the offspring has immunological deficiencies.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh my god. Yes, why is this happening?
Speaker 3: What types of protein messengers?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: What is Do you have any idea from a structural
Speaker 1: chemical standpoint why this is?
Speaker 2: So there's this this idea of internal synchrony among our
Speaker 2: different clocks. So we like to say clocks in the field,
Speaker 2: of course, because we're talking about time.
Speaker 3: It's about time.
Speaker 2: So it's thought that each like, there's one part of
Speaker 2: your brain that's considered the quote unquote master clock that
Speaker 2: is called the super chiismatic nucleus. So if you saw
Speaker 2: me on Twitter, my name is super chiismatic. There's a
Speaker 2: reason for them. I am a little bit of a nerd.
Speaker 1: Again that Twitter handle at super chismatic. She's committed to
Speaker 1: this tidy, tidy piece of brain anatomy, and I respect that.
Speaker 2: So this part of the brain actually sits right above
Speaker 2: the optic chiasm, and so it's in the part of
Speaker 2: the brain called the hypothalamus, which is involved in regulating
Speaker 2: a lot of very basic systems in the body. So
Speaker 2: this little brain area receives direct information from light, it
Speaker 2: receives direct information from the retina, which gets stimulated when
Speaker 2: light hits it, so then that communicates chemically to that
Speaker 2: part of the brain. Then that part of the brain
Speaker 2: sends signals all over to other areas in the hypothalamus,
Speaker 2: to other areas outside of the hypothalmis and the brain
Speaker 2: to the brain stem, which then those brain areas communicate
Speaker 2: to the body.
Speaker 1: So the hypothalmis side note, is a small area in
Speaker 1: the center of the brain that's partly responsible for hormone release,
Speaker 1: and the super chismatic nucleus SCN is a teeny tiny
Speaker 1: part of that and it registers info about light and
Speaker 1: dark and it sends signals everywhere just to let your
Speaker 1: body know what's up out there.
Speaker 2: So there's this main clock in the super chismatic nucleus
Speaker 2: or SCN, and that is thought to orchestrate everything going
Speaker 2: on in the body when it comes to light exposure.
Speaker 2: But then yeah, yeah, so when light exposure goes wrong.
Speaker 2: But then outside of the body, there are outside of
Speaker 2: the brain, there are other clocks, Like there's a liver clock,
Speaker 2: there's a clock in your gut, there's a clock in
Speaker 2: your stomach, there's a clock in your muscles. And when
Speaker 2: we talk about clocks, we're generally referring to a set
Speaker 2: of proteins and genes that have been shown to be rhythmic,
Speaker 2: and almost every single cell in the body expresses these
Speaker 2: same genes, but we don't know their function in every
Speaker 2: area of the body. In the part of the brain
Speaker 2: I mentioned before, the SCN.
Speaker 1: Again, super chismatic nucleus SCN.
Speaker 2: We know that they respond to light, and then their
Speaker 2: rhythms change and respond to light, which is thought to
Speaker 2: lead to downstream changes in other proteins and hormones and
Speaker 2: other signals that would communicate to the brain the rest
Speaker 2: of the brain, but we don't know exactly their role
Speaker 2: in other body parts. So that's one thing that a
Speaker 2: lot of people are trying to figure out. So the
Speaker 2: concept of internal synchrony is that this SCN is at
Speaker 2: a specific pattern, and all of your other organs and
Speaker 2: tissues are at a specific pattern every day, but when
Speaker 2: something goes wrong, they get out of whack and they
Speaker 2: quote unquote desynchronize, And so it's thought that this desynchrony
Speaker 2: is somehow kind of tugging body certain body functions to
Speaker 2: be performing when they might not supposed to be performing,
Speaker 2: or the brain is trying to do something when the
Speaker 2: brain shouldn't.
Speaker 1: Be doing something, please not.
Speaker 2: Now it's probably much more complicated than that, but we don't.
Speaker 2: And I like, I know there's some hormones that are
Speaker 2: thought to be involved in regulating it. Some melatonin is
Speaker 2: a big one that a lot of people hear of.
Speaker 2: So when your circadian rhythms are when light, you're exposed
Speaker 2: to light at night, your melatonin rhythms get screwed up.
Speaker 2: When you're exposed to light at night, your cortisol or
Speaker 2: what's thought is your stress hormone that gets messed up.
Speaker 2: So it's thought that those signals can also attach to
Speaker 2: different body areas and signal, hey, something's going wrong. And
Speaker 2: it's likely that the chronic exposure to circadian disruption is
Speaker 2: what's pausing all of these issues. So pretty much anybody
Speaker 2: in a city or suburban area it's exposed to light
Speaker 2: at night.
Speaker 1: Oh god, Yeah, wait, what is your tell me about
Speaker 1: your sleep hygiene?
Speaker 3: Out with it?
Speaker 2: Oh god. So it's kind of ironic because I actually
Speaker 2: like run an Instagram account that's like dedicated to self
Speaker 2: care and like mental health for graduate students, and I'm
Speaker 2: like one of the worst people to ask about this.
Speaker 3: Oh that's the bad news.
Speaker 2: First of all, like, I have what I like to
Speaker 2: call sleep procrastination, and I don't I didn't make up
Speaker 2: that term. I think this is a problem with a
Speaker 2: lot of people where we're like, oh, my god, I
Speaker 2: have so much to do, and so you watch Gray's
Speaker 2: Anatomy for twelve hours instead of doing anything, and then
Speaker 2: all of a sudden you're like, oh, it's ten thirty
Speaker 2: eleven o'clock at night. I need to get stuff done.
Speaker 2: So then you work until two or three or four
Speaker 2: in the morning.
Speaker 3: Yes, I've read my diary. You're reciting my diary.
Speaker 2: So I'm definitely one of those. I try to sleep better,
Speaker 2: and honestly, like my sleep hygiene only needs to be
Speaker 2: adjusted when I start to get stressed out. That's when
Speaker 2: I tend to need to hone in. But most of
Speaker 2: the time I'm in my I'm on my phone in bed,
Speaker 2: I'm watching TV in bed. I'm so bad.
Speaker 3: But I'm so much like blue light.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's everywhere, it's everywhere.
Speaker 1: Okay, so big cities have more light pollution, but what
Speaker 1: about the light you curl up with and personally jam
Speaker 1: into your retinas before bed? The blue stuff? Should we
Speaker 1: all be wearing glasses like Bono. Catherine says that the
Speaker 1: SCN is most sensitive to blue light.
Speaker 2: Whereas red light. It's not picked up as well in
Speaker 2: the brain, so you you still sense it, but it's
Speaker 2: not going to stimulate those cells that contribute to this
Speaker 2: light signaling in the brain, so we see it. It
Speaker 2: probably has a minor effect, but it's not as dramatic
Speaker 2: and as intense as blue light.
Speaker 1: Now, what happens if, let's say, hypothetically, you're a person
Speaker 1: who falls asleep with the lights on five nights a week,
Speaker 1: it's great, What is how opening in your coconut?
Speaker 2: So I was thinking about this because I saw your question,
Speaker 2: and I think it would be because when we close
Speaker 2: our eyes, we still see the light. The light is
Speaker 2: still coming through our thin little strips of eyelids. So
Speaker 2: you're probably being exposed to dim light at night, which
Speaker 2: is maybe not as bad as bright light at night,
Speaker 2: but it's bad. So all the things that you would
Speaker 2: expect to come from light at night are going to
Speaker 2: be coming from having your light on while you sleep.
Speaker 2: So there, Yeah, and the fact that you're doing it,
Speaker 2: like the fact that you're doing it all almost all
Speaker 2: of the time. Yeah, yeah, maybe you could get around
Speaker 2: it and like put the orange lights or whatever they
Speaker 2: are in your bedroom instead and it wouldn't be us.
Speaker 2: But then it's hard to see things.
Speaker 1: That's very generous that you think this is occurring in
Speaker 1: a bed and not on the couch with a laptop
Speaker 1: under my face. So sleep procrastination, I'm gonna okay, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna research and aside on how to stop sleep procrastination. Okay,
Speaker 1: so side note. About five years ago a group of
Speaker 1: scientists from the Netherlands identified this phenomenon of sleep or
Speaker 1: bedtime procrastination, and they defined it as quote, failing to
Speaker 1: go to bed at the intended time while no external
Speaker 1: circumstances prevent a person from doing so. So that last
Speaker 1: half the sentence is like it's your own damn fault.
Speaker 3: So what causes this?
Speaker 1: They think deficits in self regulation or having ADHD, or
Speaker 1: anxiety or perfectionism or work compulsion. I did some digging
Speaker 1: and one twenty nineteen Turkish study entitled Life is Short,
Speaker 1: Stay awake, death, anxiety, and bedtime Procrastination found that a
Speaker 1: fear of being a corpse eventually is one cause for
Speaker 1: sleep procrastination. So less time awake means less time to
Speaker 1: be conscious to experience life's rich pleasures, such as watching
Speaker 1: dog videos and going down social media rabbit holes to
Speaker 1: see where your ex boyfriend went on vacation. So I
Speaker 1: read roughly seventeen thousand different blogs and websites about how
Speaker 1: to stop, and there was advice like take a nice
Speaker 1: bath at night and stop using your devices in the evening,
Speaker 1: give yourself an hour window to get ready for bed
Speaker 1: or on your to do list for the day, set
Speaker 1: a bedtime first, and then work backwards scheduling your entire day.
Speaker 1: In essence, the advice is like, suck it up, realize
Speaker 1: your brain hates you for doing it, and then knock
Speaker 1: it off. Tipshit. Or maybe you could just go banish
Speaker 1: yourself to the woods for a while. What about people
Speaker 1: who go on like circadian cleanses and they go camping
Speaker 1: or they don't use artificial lights for like a week.
Speaker 3: Does that reset anything? Does that help at all?
Speaker 2: It probably temporary resets things, But let's be honest, if
Speaker 2: you go straight back to what you were doing before,
Speaker 2: you're the purpose of circadian rhythms is to be able
Speaker 2: to adapt to changes. So we don't quite know if
Speaker 2: like one small disruption of circadian rhythms has lasting effects
Speaker 2: on the body. It probably doesn't. It's probably the chronic exposure.
Speaker 2: Like I mentioned before, this is the chronic So if
Speaker 2: you only go away for a week and you're living
Speaker 2: in the wilderness with the moonlight, it's probably not gonna
Speaker 2: be as beneficial as just making more permanent changes at
Speaker 2: home on a regular basis.
Speaker 3: That makes sense. Yeah, Now what about animals.
Speaker 1: Are there any animals that have really weird circadian rhythms
Speaker 1: that are like up and down and up and down.
Speaker 2: Cats basically don't have They have circadian rhythms, but not
Speaker 2: in sleep wake activity.
Speaker 3: Really, how does that work?
Speaker 2: They just sleep all the time. They're carnivores. They don't
Speaker 2: have to worry about it. They eat whatever the heck
Speaker 2: they want. Well, house cats they're they're lazy and they'll
Speaker 2: eat whatever food you give them. But like, if you
Speaker 2: think about cats, they you know, they've evolved to be
Speaker 2: just eat whatever the heck they want whenever they can
Speaker 2: get it. They're kind of at the top of their
Speaker 2: food chain. They don't have to worry about what food
Speaker 2: is available and when, so they can kind of just
Speaker 2: be lazy and sleep like all the time. I think
Speaker 2: they sleep like sixteen hours a day or something.
Speaker 1: God, I know, right, but they're like koalas or something,
Speaker 1: don't Koalas and sloths sleep like sixteen eight twenty hours
Speaker 1: a day.
Speaker 2: They sleep a lot. I don't know the exact numbers,
Speaker 2: but they do sleep a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Side note, of course, I google the animals that
Speaker 1: sleep the most, and giraffes apparently all have cocaine problems
Speaker 1: because they sleep four to five hours at night. Get
Speaker 1: up and take a spin class or some shit. I
Speaker 1: don't know. But giant armadillos get this, apparently sleep eighteen
Speaker 1: hours a day, and koalas and little brown bats have
Speaker 1: been observed snoozing for almost twenty hours a day. But
Speaker 1: they were curious about sloths, so they fitted wild ones
Speaker 1: with little fitbits or something, and they showed they only
Speaker 1: sleep nine and a half hours a day. It's not
Speaker 1: too shabby sloths. Slaws are like, yeah, remember that time
Speaker 1: you needed a word for laziness, so you just called
Speaker 1: it usip.
Speaker 3: What about some circadian flim flam any pervasive lies?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Than soap?
Speaker 1: Get on so excited.
Speaker 2: About this question. So let everybody know circadian rhythm is
Speaker 2: not a thing. There is not a circadian.
Speaker 3: Rhythm, not singular.
Speaker 2: It's not singular circadian rhythms. Like the words circadian literally
Speaker 2: means about a day. It's referring to rhythms that occur
Speaker 2: about a day. It's any rhythm in the body. You
Speaker 2: don't have a circadian rhythm. You have circadian rhythms because
Speaker 2: there's so many different rhythms in the body that act
Speaker 2: on completely different patterns. So we can't just refer to
Speaker 2: one thing. Now. I get most people are referring to
Speaker 2: sleepwake activity. That's generally what people think of. But that's
Speaker 2: just one example.
Speaker 1: So if you say goo potty at the same time
Speaker 1: every morning, that's a circadian rhythm in and of itself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is. Actually, there's like circaian rhythms in a
Speaker 2: lot of things you think of it. There's probably one.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, can I ask you Patreon questions?
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god. Okay, I'm getting to them a
Speaker 1: little bit early because we have so many and I
Speaker 1: highlighted a lot and there are so many questions that
Speaker 1: I want to ask, but I want the patrons to
Speaker 1: be able to ask them, so I'm just like, let's
Speaker 1: get into it. Okay, okay, But Before we get into
Speaker 1: your questions, we'll take a quick break to hear about
Speaker 1: some sponsors of the show who make it possible for
Speaker 1: us to donate to a charity of theologists choosing this week,
Speaker 1: Catherine chose Stem Advocacy Institute or SIA. SIA is a
Speaker 1: global community of scientists, science communicators, and professionals who are
Speaker 1: passionate about strengthening the network of access to science, education
Speaker 1: and engagement. They give fellowships to scientists like Catherine, and
Speaker 1: they believe that EDU with a strong foundation in science
Speaker 1: is a critical component for global economic growth, social advancement,
Speaker 1: and ultimately global peace. So a donation went to STEM
Speaker 1: Advocacy Institute, and there will be a link to them
Speaker 1: in the show notes, as well as to the sponsors
Speaker 1: who you may hear about right now. Okay, your questions, Okay,
Speaker 1: Patreon questions, so many millions of them. Forest dots high
Speaker 1: forest says why is mine so fucked up?
Speaker 3: And what can I do to fix it? Just straight up?
Speaker 2: So I have to say hashtag same. So I would
Speaker 2: say our circadian rhythms, most likely referring to sleepwake activity,
Speaker 2: Like I was just saying, they can get really screwed up.
Speaker 2: For a lot of reasons, but I think the most
Speaker 2: common for most people is lack of structure. So this
Speaker 2: might be an answer to a lot of questions. But
Speaker 2: having a very consistent routine, especially with when you're getting
Speaker 2: up and when you're going to bed, and then when
Speaker 2: you eat food, those are going to be like the
Speaker 2: biggest two most important scheduled things to have to help
Speaker 2: improve your rhythmicity.
Speaker 1: This just in I looked it up in Rhythmicity is
Speaker 1: a real word.
Speaker 2: Our body loves consistency, our brain loves schedules, even a
Speaker 2: lot of us think that we don't, but like, yeah,
Speaker 2: our circadian rhythms. Do you know you have similar circadian
Speaker 2: rhythms to a moth. So you're not going to be
Speaker 2: like you're You're not as incomplex as you want to
Speaker 2: think you are. So having a consistent schedule, especially with
Speaker 2: light and food and sleep, those things are going to
Speaker 2: be the most beneficial for fixing your rhythms.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I feel very attacked.
Speaker 1: Very see uh, Ellie Robert wants to know what's the
Speaker 1: best way to get blue light in the mornings when
Speaker 1: you wake up before the sun comes up. Is blue
Speaker 1: light in the morning good for waking us up.
Speaker 2: It looks like there's some evidence for what they call
Speaker 2: a dawn simulation, So it's similar to those fancy alarm
Speaker 2: clocks that you can buy that like slowly bring light
Speaker 2: or using like a bright light simulator, so you can
Speaker 2: have those desktop ones that people use for a seasonal
Speaker 2: effective disorder. Using something like that in the morning can
Speaker 2: kind of trick your brain into thinking, Oh, the sun's up,
Speaker 2: it's morning, It's time to like do stuff. So there's
Speaker 2: been some evidence to show that that actually improves our
Speaker 2: attention and improves our cognitive performance in the morning, as
Speaker 2: opposed to not using them.
Speaker 1: Are alarm clocks kind of evil when it comes to
Speaker 1: circadian rhythms? Or are they just a tool we need
Speaker 1: to stay on track to circadian rhythms?
Speaker 2: I think they're a tool we need.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: I've noticed mine has a really bright light that I
Speaker 2: can't dim, so I should probably get rid of it
Speaker 2: and get a new one because I actually like can
Speaker 2: see it through my eyelids when I'm har sleep. But
Speaker 2: but yeah, I think they're more so a tool to
Speaker 2: kind of keep you consistently on schedule, especially when you
Speaker 2: have to get up and go to sleep at a
Speaker 2: specific time of day and you don't have as much flexibility.
Speaker 3: Man, we need what we really need, hear me out.
Speaker 1: We need alarm clocks that are sleep clocks that are like,
Speaker 1: and you're in bed.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, we need a ten thirty alarm that's like, okay,
Speaker 1: all right, fucker, time to brush your teeth.
Speaker 2: Have you tried doing that on your phone?
Speaker 3: No, but tonight's might be night number one.
Speaker 1: Okay. Side note when it comes to waking up, if
Speaker 1: you're in the market for a new morning alarm clock,
Speaker 1: I looked for the weirdest for you, and there's one
Speaker 1: called Clockie that's on wheels and it runs away from
Speaker 1: you until you catch it and turn it off or
Speaker 1: I guess set it on fire if you want to.
Speaker 1: There's another that requires you to shoot a laser pointer
Speaker 1: at a target before the alarm shuts off. There are
Speaker 1: bedside mats you have to stand on before they'll stop wailing.
Speaker 1: There's the terrifying sounding shot clock that seems to zap
Speaker 1: your wrist, maybe with an electric current, until you accept
Speaker 1: that it's a new day. There's another that's called the
Speaker 1: sleep Squad that utilizes a police siren every morning. I
Speaker 1: don't know why they called it sleep Squad when they
Speaker 1: could have named it the Wakey Brigade. Also, I found
Speaker 1: a four hundred and fifty dollars option that makes poured
Speaker 1: over coffee at your bedside, and I don't know why
Speaker 1: you couldn't just use like a thirty dollars Black and
Speaker 1: Decker coffee pot with a timer instead. It's done in
Speaker 1: my business. But in terms of the most potentially sculptural,
Speaker 1: there is a contraption called a dream Time water alarm,
Speaker 1: and it relies on you filling it at night and
Speaker 1: then a steady drip of water all night changes the
Speaker 1: balance on a scale until, like a soft bill thing
Speaker 1: gets hit in the morning. It does not, however, spray
Speaker 1: you in the face, which is what I was looking
Speaker 1: for when I stumbled upon it. Oh. When it comes
Speaker 1: to light based solutions, there are all manner of sunrise
Speaker 1: alarm clocks.
Speaker 3: They have great reviews.
Speaker 1: There are higher end ones by Phillips that are a
Speaker 1: couple hundred bucks to like the twenty dollars home Labs options,
Speaker 1: because all of us know too well that the sound
Speaker 1: of an iPhone alarm brings deep terrible morning dread. Now,
Speaker 1: what about if you use it the night before you
Speaker 1: wanted to know. Logan Levo asks, is using my phone
Speaker 1: for a while before sleep actually fucking me up? Like
Speaker 1: my dad insists, mister, Honestly, because we also have light
Speaker 1: and TV on, just your phone is probably not as
Speaker 1: bad as we want to think it is.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of other light factors that are fucking
Speaker 2: us up. Let's be honest. But there is some thought
Speaker 2: that because of how bright it is and how close
Speaker 2: it is to our faces, that it might be more
Speaker 2: stimulating than a TV like across the room or a
Speaker 2: dim white light in your lamp with a lamp shade.
Speaker 2: So it is possible that it's more fucking upness, but
Speaker 2: we're not one hundred percent sure.
Speaker 1: New words rhythmicity and fucking upness, so put those in
Speaker 1: your pocket now. A few of you had sleep mask questions.
Speaker 1: I'm looking at you, Emily Read, Julie Bear and Amanda
Speaker 1: Jay while I'm looking your direction, but I don't see
Speaker 1: anything because of the mask thing.
Speaker 3: Do you have a sleep mask that you prefer? Do
Speaker 3: you sleep with a sleep mask?
Speaker 2: I do sleep with a sleep mask, and I bought
Speaker 2: whatever was relatively affordable on Amazon as long as it
Speaker 2: blocks out all the light and doesn't like fall on
Speaker 2: my face. I sleep with a blanket on top of
Speaker 2: my head, though, to be honest with my partner snores.
Speaker 2: So and a machine and two fans because I'm a mess.
Speaker 2: I have a travel fan that I actually fly with
Speaker 2: me when I go places.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I love how prepared you are.
Speaker 2: I'm very picky when it comes to sleep, so I
Speaker 2: try to do as much as I can to make
Speaker 2: it happen.
Speaker 3: There's this great invention.
Speaker 1: I covered it on Innovation Dation and it's called a
Speaker 1: bee fan, and it's a fan that sits at the
Speaker 1: foot of your bed and it goes up in the
Speaker 1: bottom of your covers and it targets just one person
Speaker 1: in bed, so if one person isn't hot and the
Speaker 1: other is, and it goes up and it just like
Speaker 1: goes under your covers. It's so magical. It feels like
Speaker 1: you're in a marshmallow. And yeah, it's called a beefan.
Speaker 1: The guy who invented it invented it for his mother
Speaker 1: in law who is going through menopause. That was like awesome, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know. And it's like I've been in a bed
Speaker 1: with it and I'm like, oh, that's running nice.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a side note, but it's relevant to
Speaker 2: what we're talking about. Temperature is very important for sleep,
Speaker 2: Like people who are like, oh, I like to be
Speaker 2: hot when I sleep, and like, no, your body actually
Speaker 2: decreases its temperature at night time so you sleep better. Like,
Speaker 2: it's actually better to have a slightly cooler space when
Speaker 2: you're trying to sleep.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's because evolutionarily we just got used
Speaker 1: to night being cold.
Speaker 2: Probably, like it's always relatively cooler at night than it
Speaker 2: is I shouldn't say always, but most of the time
Speaker 2: relatively cooler at night than it is during the day.
Speaker 1: Okay, some of you wanted to know if sleeping under
Speaker 1: a tree outside might help your screwed up circadian rhythms,
Speaker 1: like Anna Thompson Monster Cat and Anita Starzynski ass at Home,
Speaker 1: I'm a night out. When I go camping, I so
Speaker 1: easily fall into the rhythm of sleep when it's dark,
Speaker 1: awake when it's light. Why does this happen so readily?
Speaker 1: And is that what my body actually wants?
Speaker 2: Yes? Ah, And you're probably away from a lot of
Speaker 2: light pollution, and you know you're Our bodies developed with this.
Speaker 2: Our brains developed with this light dark cycle. So if
Speaker 2: we go back to again where we can easily adapt
Speaker 2: to the light cycles. But this is like naturally what
Speaker 2: we would normally be around now. Will it be the
Speaker 2: same in a thousand years if the planet still exists,
Speaker 2: when when you know we've adapted to light pollution? I
Speaker 2: have no idea, But at least for now you know
Speaker 2: we adapted and we evolved to normal light dark cycles
Speaker 2: being the sun and the moon and the sun and
Speaker 2: lack of sun. So of course we're gonna feel comfortable
Speaker 2: and happy and at least our sleep will when we're
Speaker 2: back with nature.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. That makes me want to go camping and
Speaker 1: cover myself. Indeed, just do me a favor.
Speaker 3: Check your crevisers.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Now all of us, I'm sure want to
Speaker 1: know about the blues and the blue light and anxiety
Speaker 1: and sleep, such as Evan Jude, Chris bur Or, Heath Allen,
Speaker 1: Becca Bee, Meghan Lucien, and Sarah Wingfield, Cranilation Hassan and
Speaker 1: Sarah Clock, Casey Rose and Becky Baker says why do
Speaker 1: I need to sleep fourteen to eighteen hours a day
Speaker 1: when my depression flares up? Also asking for a friend.
Speaker 1: Is that why some people have clean houses and obedient children?
Speaker 2: So, oh, this is a good question. I think that
Speaker 2: I'm not one hundred percent sure, but I think that
Speaker 2: with depression, one of the symptoms is fatigue. So it
Speaker 2: might be that we're trying to combat fatigue with more
Speaker 2: sleep instead of our normal whatever. If you're Alley, probably
Speaker 2: three hours of sleep, if you're me, like maybe six
Speaker 2: or seven hours of sleep. You know, normally that's what
Speaker 2: we get, but then we try to make up four
Speaker 2: feeling fatigued when we're depressed by sleeping more. Depression and
Speaker 2: sleep are very, very very tightly tied together, and so
Speaker 2: it's really hard to figure out which comes first. Are
Speaker 2: you depressed because you're lacking sleep, or are you lacking
Speaker 2: sleep and feeling fatigued because you're depressed. It's likely a
Speaker 2: some combination of the two.
Speaker 1: Okay, side note, I looked into this, and I'll give
Speaker 1: you just the gist. Mental health and sleep are very linked.
Speaker 1: Sometimes issues are a symptom of mental illness, and sometimes
Speaker 1: they can cause mental troubles. Often they just keep cyclically
Speaker 1: making the other worse. So what can you do? You'd
Speaker 1: see a doc, but before you go in. You might
Speaker 1: want to keep a sleep journal for two weeks to
Speaker 1: show them when you slept for how long, what troubles
Speaker 1: you had. Doctors also suggest a bedtime schedule and a routine,
Speaker 1: of course very helpful, as is limiting stimulants all together,
Speaker 1: or at least in the afternoon. They suggest getting plenty
Speaker 1: of sunlight or using a light box that mimics the
Speaker 1: sun if you have seasonal depression, especially up here in
Speaker 1: the US where we're in the darkest days. And I'm
Speaker 1: not talking politically, I just mean winter in the northern hemisphere,
Speaker 1: speaking of which, some patrons had seasonal and latitude questions,
Speaker 1: such as Misty Clardy, my Montana cousin, Nathan Bronick, Hi,
Speaker 1: Michelle Lee Deli Dames, and first time question asker Evan
Speaker 1: Jude asks how many humans, plants and animals who live
Speaker 1: closer to the poles and experience continuous daylight and nighttime
Speaker 1: around the winter and sss like white nights in Russia?
Speaker 1: How have they adapted or evolved differently?
Speaker 3: How do they deal? And have you seen Midsummer?
Speaker 2: I haven't seen Midsummer? Do I need to see it?
Speaker 3: I think it's about a white night.
Speaker 1: I think it's a horror movie that it takes place,
Speaker 1: you know, like a continuous daylight night wraw.
Speaker 2: So my friend is actually one of those people that's
Speaker 2: lucky and gets to go to Antarctica. So I've tried
Speaker 2: to ask her, like, yes, yes, she's boss. I tried
Speaker 2: to ask her, you know, what is it like there
Speaker 2: in terms of because they go during the Antarctic summer,
Speaker 2: which is our winter, but then it's light all the
Speaker 2: time down there, and you know, she said that, yes,
Speaker 2: it's harder to get sleep, but most of the time
Speaker 2: they you know, they have ways to control the light
Speaker 2: and dark in their facilities. But there's really not a
Speaker 2: lot of research done on the people that live in
Speaker 2: these polar areas. And I think I recently saw an
Speaker 2: article that they're finally starting to do studies on the
Speaker 2: resident scientists that live in Antarctica, which is like, that's
Speaker 2: the perfect population of people. It's very controlled environment, very
Speaker 2: controlled food, a lot of controlled factors. So I think
Speaker 2: they're finally going to start looking into it because my
Speaker 2: educated guess would be that there is probably higher rates
Speaker 2: of depression, there's probably higher rates of things that we
Speaker 2: associate with continuous light exposure. We haven't adapted to those
Speaker 2: areas yet as far as I know. I could be wrong,
Speaker 2: but there's probably increased risks of all these morbidities that
Speaker 2: we associate with light at night exposure in these people
Speaker 2: that are at the higher or lower ends of the earth.
Speaker 2: Also like during the long or during the winter their
Speaker 2: respective winters. I think that's probably where the increased depression
Speaker 2: might poke itself through, because they're not getting enough light.
Speaker 2: Like we need light even if it's not warm outside.
Speaker 2: We need light exposure.
Speaker 1: Crick aside. I poked through some reports about mental health
Speaker 1: and latitude and found one really fascinating study which looked
Speaker 1: at how rare suicide was in pre colonization Greenland versus
Speaker 1: modern lifestyle, and apparently birth month and birth season tended
Speaker 1: to affect those kind of mental health issues. And while
Speaker 1: those types of deaths increased a lot post colonization, the
Speaker 1: seasons had less of an impact because of the introduction
Speaker 1: of artificial light. So knowing the amount of light and
Speaker 1: darkness that our super chismatic nucleus receives can have major
Speaker 1: impacts on our hormones and mental health. What about what
Speaker 1: we futs with the clock itself and throw the whole
Speaker 1: system off twice a year. Julie Bear asks daylight Savings
Speaker 1: Time abolish or keep a ball as okay, she says,
Speaker 1: we can't be friends if you say keep Actually.
Speaker 2: The Society for Research on Biological Rhythms, they just released
Speaker 2: a statement about why we should abolish the daylight savings time.
Speaker 2: But they so the people who are in charge of
Speaker 2: studying circadian rhythms and other biological rhythms are like, get
Speaker 2: rid of it. So it's a waste, like we don't
Speaker 2: need it anymore.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. And don't they say that when they kind
Speaker 1: of shave off an hour of sleep, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of heart attacks and a lot of health problems occur
Speaker 1: that like the following week after I've read that somewhere.
Speaker 2: It's basically jet lag. We're forcing jet lag on people.
Speaker 3: That sucks.
Speaker 1: Oh and I know that there are questions about jet lag. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get to those in a sec But first,
Speaker 1: another very important question. Julie Bert also wants to know
Speaker 1: do you giggle and snort when you hear and say
Speaker 1: the word diurnal because it sounds like a pair of
Speaker 1: journals next to each other.
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, good.
Speaker 2: It's a fun word.
Speaker 3: It's a fun word that makes you feel better.
Speaker 1: Patron Alyssa also asked his next question at Simmons says,
Speaker 1: I have read that folks who are blind, even with
Speaker 1: no light perception, still have melatonin cycling and diurnal rhythms.
Speaker 1: So what alternate mechanisms other than visual perception do our
Speaker 1: bodies have to regulate our circadian rhythm?
Speaker 3: Like does our skin know that it's light out?
Speaker 2: Our skin doesn't know. But I'm actually really excited about
Speaker 2: this question because we didn't get to talk about these
Speaker 2: little guys. So it's not actually the visual cells in
Speaker 2: our retinas that recognize light. So they do obviously, but
Speaker 2: not for circadian rhythms. They are just doing it for
Speaker 2: visual perception. So there's actually these other little guys. They're
Speaker 2: called intrinsically photosensitive retinal ganglia cells what ip rgc's basically
Speaker 2: thank god, but there are these I think they make
Speaker 2: up less than five or ten percent of the cells
Speaker 2: in your retina, and they sense light, which most of
Speaker 2: the cells in your retina do, but they sense light
Speaker 2: and send it specifically to that super chismatic nucleus or SCN.
Speaker 2: So they're the ones that are like, hey, masterclock, light
Speaker 2: is happening right now. So they're the ones that are
Speaker 2: communicating directly to that brain area. Now, depending on why
Speaker 2: an individual is blind, there are different reasons why a
Speaker 2: person might be blind. If those cells are still intact,
Speaker 2: they're still going to have circadian rhythms, They're still going
Speaker 2: to be fine when it comes to perceiving light and
Speaker 2: dark in the sense of regulating biological rhythms in that way.
Speaker 2: So if there's some different reason and those cells are
Speaker 2: no longer intact, they will actually no longer exhibit circadian rhythms. Well,
Speaker 2: they will, but their bodies are basically constantly in what
Speaker 2: we call free running, which is as if you were
Speaker 2: to throw somebody in a cave in the back of
Speaker 2: a cave and have them be completely isolated from environmental cues.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, So it depends on why in individuals blind.
Speaker 2: But some individuals who are blind can still have sensing
Speaker 2: of light through those specific cells.
Speaker 3: Oh, whoa, that's that's crazy. That's cool.
Speaker 1: New question asker Lauren Marie asks, why do I feel
Speaker 1: like a sack of shit in the mornings when I've
Speaker 1: had eight.
Speaker 2: Hours if oh jeez, I mean, there could be lots
Speaker 2: of things, So things that make you feel like sacks
Speaker 2: of shit. Even if you get enough sleep, or what
Speaker 2: we think of is enough sleep, maybe you consumed something,
Speaker 2: some substance that made your sleep crazy. So alcohol puts
Speaker 2: you to sleep but does not help your circadian rhythms
Speaker 2: at all, so it makes your sleep cycles kind of wonky.
Speaker 2: I don't know the specifics, but I know it's not good.
Speaker 1: Hella fast. I looked this up, and alcohol can inhibit
Speaker 1: rem sleep, which is the most restorative type of rest.
Speaker 1: It can also wake you up in the middle of
Speaker 1: the night and make you go potty.
Speaker 2: I mean, it could be that this person needs more
Speaker 2: or less sleep. That could be a fun experiment to
Speaker 2: give a try. Some people do better with exercise. I
Speaker 2: get specific times of day, so depending on when this
Speaker 2: person's exercising. I've read some places that like heavy exercise
Speaker 2: in the evening is not good. But then I can
Speaker 2: I know anecdotally I can go to a boxing class
Speaker 2: and be fine. But I think it just depends on
Speaker 2: your needs. I don't think there's a straightforward answer for
Speaker 2: why eight specifically eight hours of sleep makes you feel
Speaker 2: screwed up. It probably depends on a lot of factors.
Speaker 3: That's a good call.
Speaker 1: And so many patrons asked, and I will put their
Speaker 1: names in an inside and I will read them quickly.
Speaker 1: These folks are Elise Knowles, Don Schwartz, John Yurick, Renee Jennings,
Speaker 1: Megan B. Pearson, Catherine Harshman, Mark James, Michelle, Lee Becadecker,
Speaker 1: Celia Ford, and Hallie who all asked about naps and
Speaker 1: about segmented sleep.
Speaker 2: Hmmm.
Speaker 1: And this notion of like sleeping and then waking up
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night for a couple hours
Speaker 1: and going back to sleep, is that really a thing.
Speaker 2: I have not found any definitive evidence indicating that that
Speaker 2: is actually beneficial. At the same time, I haven't found
Speaker 2: any definitive evidence saying that it is hurtful. Now, the
Speaker 2: only thing that I could think of that would make
Speaker 2: this bad would be as if you're exposing yourself to
Speaker 2: more light at night because you're waking up in the
Speaker 2: middle of the night. So if you're getting up in
Speaker 2: the middle of the night, it probably is not a
Speaker 2: good idea to then get on your phone or like
Speaker 2: go watch TV for three hours and then go back
Speaker 2: to sleep. I don't know what you could do well
Speaker 2: I do know a few things that you could do
Speaker 2: in the dark, but you know, you know, I think
Speaker 2: you know, you'd have to maybe try something that's not
Speaker 2: getting you exposed to more light. There is some evidence
Speaker 2: that things like napping during the day, as long as
Speaker 2: you don't take long naps, that that is like a
Speaker 2: normal aspect of like human sleep patterns, especially because we
Speaker 2: eat a lot during the day. It's hotter during the
Speaker 2: afternoon generally, and so those types of cues are like
Speaker 2: making us sleepy, and so we take a little quick
Speaker 2: nap and then we're fine, we can get up and
Speaker 2: move on. But I haven't seen a lot of evidence
Speaker 2: about segmented sleep, especially at night. Thing that I've heard
Speaker 2: a lot of people talking about lately. I think it
Speaker 2: was a historian or somebody who brought this concept up.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: And then that's kind of all we've gotten since.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, So alongside rhythmicity and fucking upitness, this is
Speaker 1: another good pocket word, and it means of the dawn
Speaker 1: or dusk of the gloaming. It's great crepuscular. I regree
Speaker 1: wants to know what is up with crepuscular animals. How
Speaker 1: does that work? And how is that cycle advantageous to them?
Speaker 2: I think it comes back down to what are these
Speaker 2: animals eating, what are they foraging for?
Speaker 3: I love this question from Vitiepong.
Speaker 1: Does going early to bed and early to rise actually
Speaker 1: make you healthy, wealthy, and wise?
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say it depends, so depending on what your
Speaker 2: chronotype is. My chronotype is whether or not your traditionally
Speaker 2: we say night owl or daylark, whether or not you
Speaker 2: are a person who functions better during the evening or
Speaker 2: functions better during the morning, or somewhere in between. That's
Speaker 2: probably gonna make you more wise sticking to that schedule
Speaker 2: healthy probably depends on your light exposure. Again, it's all
Speaker 2: coming back to light and then wealthy, good luck, That's
Speaker 2: all I say. But yeah, I would think the biggest
Speaker 2: thing is going to be related to chronotype. But then
Speaker 2: also depending on what job you choose, and maybe there's
Speaker 2: some correlation between our chronotype and what jobs we tend
Speaker 2: to gear toward. But yeah, I would say chronotype is
Speaker 2: probably going to be the biggest determining factor, which is
Speaker 2: a thought to be potentially genetic.
Speaker 3: So yeah, and so many patrons asked that question.
Speaker 1: Many of you little birdies had chronotype questions i e.
Speaker 1: Night owls versus morning larks, such as Stephanie Berherdies, Sarah
Speaker 1: Jane James, Chelsea fruit Fly, Molly Henning, Jasmine McLean, Michelle Miner,
Speaker 1: Anna Thompson, Hannah Claire, Rachel Mount, Sophie Cosino, M mcglide's game,
Speaker 1: Teresa Pasanova, Justin M. Gifford, Charlotte Field, Keguard, Henny Bergstrum,
Speaker 1: Kelly Brockington, Aaron Pandora two first time question asker Lara Durkovich,
Speaker 1: Erica Butler, Madeline Winter, Bree Johnson, Charlie Wong, Heather Wood Bird,
Speaker 1: Beatrice Bilacuava Heath Allen, Cayla Perez, Sarah Sexton, and Erica.
Speaker 1: Is there such a thing as a night owl in
Speaker 1: an early riser? Is that a thing?
Speaker 2: It is a thing, and it's a thing too depending
Speaker 2: on age, So our chronotype actually does change as we age.
Speaker 2: So obviously, like children tend to be more daylarks, teenagers
Speaker 2: are night owls. That's not a lie. It is act
Speaker 2: like a thing. And then as we get older, we
Speaker 2: move more and more toward daylarks, and older individuals tend
Speaker 2: to wake up earlier in the day, but their sleep
Speaker 2: is all screwed.
Speaker 1: Up anyways, Why is their sleep screwed up?
Speaker 2: So one thing is changed in hormones, So lack of
Speaker 2: hormones or extreme levels of hormones compared to what would
Speaker 2: normally be occurring during quote unquote reproductive age. But then
Speaker 2: also it's thought that the areas that are most involved
Speaker 2: in regulating circadian rhythms age as well. We don't know
Speaker 2: what that aging looks like, but it's thought that those
Speaker 2: brain areas, just like other brain areas, could potentially be
Speaker 2: aging and not function as properly as they normally would.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Because one patron asked about older folks and why they
Speaker 1: get up so early, Greg Wallack asked, Ever since I
Speaker 1: got a weighted blanket, I fall asleep with the lights
Speaker 1: on constantly?
Speaker 3: Is that bad? But Greg Wallack wants to know.
Speaker 1: Also, do you like the song day Sleeper by Rim
Speaker 1: where Michael Stipe actually kruns about circadian rhythms?
Speaker 3: The kind of.
Speaker 2: Is it bad that I haven't heard it?
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to send it to you. How dare you?
Speaker 1: How dare you not getting a pH d until you
Speaker 1: can karayoke that entire song? I know?
Speaker 2: Like the really popular rim song, but.
Speaker 1: Well this is about to be perhaps your favorite. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna send it to you. Oh I do want to
Speaker 1: get to one more that? So many patrons asked patrons,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at you. Barb Wilkinson, Amanda Inkn, Sarah the CHESSI,
Speaker 1: Sam McCarthy, Jim Spicker, Danny Cue, James Capaldo, Riley mckinnis,
Speaker 1: Emily Tudorace Raymond j Deutsche, Rachel Fallon, Jana Vuznowski, Joey Todb,
Speaker 1: Heather Densmore. Y'all had some real jet laggy questions, mainly
Speaker 1: how not get this? What strategies for combating jet lag
Speaker 1: are there without using medication?
Speaker 3: Do we just have to suffer through it?
Speaker 1: Or are their behaviors we can to adjust faster and
Speaker 1: more easily, Like what is jet lag?
Speaker 3: What's happening?
Speaker 2: So jet lag? I think is generally thought to be
Speaker 2: again the desynchrony between our internal pattern and what we
Speaker 2: are used to versus whatever is happening outside of us.
Speaker 2: We are basically going from hey, I'm used to East
Speaker 2: Coast time or Central time or whatever you're used to
Speaker 2: that light pattern and then all of a sudden, literally
Speaker 2: within a few hours, You're in a completely new lighting
Speaker 2: pattern and completely new social cues, completely new food cues.
Speaker 2: So all of a sudden, your body is like, oh shit,
Speaker 2: what's happening? And so you know that's the actual scientific
Speaker 2: term that's true. And so it's thought that maybe there's
Speaker 2: this the brain is slowly but surely trying to catch up,
Speaker 2: and different parts of our bodies can catch up with
Speaker 2: this new timing at different rates. So I would say
Speaker 2: there's kind of two, maybe three things that seem to
Speaker 2: hold the most weight in terms of resynchronizing yourself to
Speaker 2: your new environment, depending on how long you're going to
Speaker 2: be there. Honestly, if you're only going to be somewhere
Speaker 2: for a couple of days, it's not worth your time.
Speaker 2: Just deal with it and go back home and go
Speaker 2: to normal. But if you're going to be somewhere for
Speaker 2: like a week or so, I would recommend trying to
Speaker 2: resynchronize your schedule to whatever your new schedule is, but
Speaker 2: doing so in smaller increments, like if you could change
Speaker 2: your schedule every fifteen minutes every couple of days, that's
Speaker 2: probably going to be more beneficial than you just trying
Speaker 2: to make it all happen at once. Yeah, there's some
Speaker 2: thought that we can adjust to fifteen minutes of some
Speaker 2: magic number, that it's easier to adjust to that change
Speaker 2: than like an hour or two hours or three hours. Now,
Speaker 2: that's hard to say. When you jump from like New
Speaker 2: York to Sydney, Like God, your brain is probably a mess.
Speaker 2: But and then eating on a regular schedule, trying to
Speaker 2: sleep on a more regular schedule, even socializing on a
Speaker 2: regular schedule, that will help cue your brain and your
Speaker 2: body to know what time it is or what the
Speaker 2: new time is.
Speaker 1: Oh, and I realized later that we didn't touch on
Speaker 1: circadian rhythms and shift work enough. And a bunch of you,
Speaker 1: many of you, too many of you to list, had
Speaker 1: questions Mcmanusaur, Michael, don Eweld, Nelson, Vietorro, just a few
Speaker 1: of you. So many others asked essentially what can shift
Speaker 1: workers do? Or how bad is shift work? And I
Speaker 1: wish we'd talked about it more. So email Catherine, and
Speaker 1: I asked, how fucked are shift workers? She wrote right back,
Speaker 1: and I shall read it verbatim. She says, generally speaking,
Speaker 1: shift workers are fucked. We don't quite understand why. But
Speaker 1: when looking at disease risk. Shift workers have increased risk
Speaker 1: of developing a multitude of diseases, including cancers, metabolic disease,
Speaker 1: cognitive decline, etc. We don't know why. It's likely a
Speaker 1: mix of our physiology going out of whack, like your
Speaker 1: hormones go crazy, your immune system goes nuts, so on.
Speaker 1: This is obviously mediated by sleep disruptions, but we don't
Speaker 1: know to what extent. Another interesting tidbit she says is
Speaker 1: it's not just the light exposure during shift work that's
Speaker 1: fucking us up. So our brain and our body are like, ah,
Speaker 1: what time is it? So your liver thinks it's noon
Speaker 1: because you're eating, but your brain thinks it's two am
Speaker 1: because it's a dark outside. And yeah, we don't know
Speaker 1: exactly what's going on here, but shift workers are a
Speaker 1: mess physiologically speaking, at least, so shift workers heart goes
Speaker 1: out to you and your heart, I know, it's so hard.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: We did a two part Zonology episode last year, and
Speaker 1: as we noted in that one, shift work is listed
Speaker 1: as a carcinogen. The yikes, And I don't know what
Speaker 1: the answer here is because shift workers are literally saving
Speaker 1: people's lives and oftentimes you don't have a choice as
Speaker 1: to what your schedule is for work. You have to
Speaker 1: go where they pay you, so be nice to a
Speaker 1: shift worker. I think there should be a national shift
Speaker 1: Worker's Day. We should all have to get up and
Speaker 1: give you presents in the middle of the night, just
Speaker 1: to see what it's like one time. So I don't know,
Speaker 1: but I want everyone to take care of themselves as
Speaker 1: best they can. So the main point, let's get control
Speaker 1: of our sleep. People, do what you can. A lot
Speaker 1: of folks asked about how much control, though is too much?
Speaker 1: Like what about sleep hacking? Rebecca Wendell, Joey Tabb, and
Speaker 1: ron LeBlanc wanted to know, what do you think of
Speaker 1: all the tech bros that are trying to hack their
Speaker 1: sleep and intermitten fasting?
Speaker 3: Are you like, come on, I'm.
Speaker 2: Sure there might be some small benefit to it, but
Speaker 2: it's I've heard recently of like people trying to hack
Speaker 2: for till using light, and I think I'm like, maybe
Speaker 2: maybe I would say if it doesn't hurt you, sure,
Speaker 2: why not, But there's not enough evidence to say that
Speaker 2: it actually works. So that would be my one caveat
Speaker 2: is go into it knowing that we don't know if
Speaker 2: it works. At all. I've heard of people like trying
Speaker 2: to hack circadian rhythms or force themselves to be one
Speaker 2: way or another. To some extent, we can, but we
Speaker 2: only have so much control over what our body naturally
Speaker 2: wants to do.
Speaker 1: PS. I just went down a rabbit hole reading about
Speaker 1: people who sleep on magnetic pads and they takee electrodes
Speaker 1: to their face and nap for a few hours at
Speaker 1: a time, all day and all night. Folks who strap
Speaker 1: ice packs to their body. Sounds like a giant pain
Speaker 1: in a biohacker's ass. PS. Do you need to fall
Speaker 1: asleep quickly? I shared this in the Somnology episode. But
Speaker 1: my mom taught me a brain trick where you think
Speaker 1: of a category like fruits or movie titles or things
Speaker 1: you'd find in a purse, and then think of something
Speaker 1: that starts with an A, and then something starts with
Speaker 1: a B in a C and on and on alphabetically
Speaker 1: until you drift off. We call this the fancy nancy,
Speaker 1: So I hope it helps. If you need a tactic
Speaker 1: to lull you into dreamland, I use it all the time.
Speaker 1: Thanks mom. Okay, moving on m HM and last patroon question,
Speaker 1: Ali Cooper wants to know blackout shades, friend or foe?
Speaker 2: I would say, friend, Okay, so.
Speaker 1: Even if the light doesn't come in in the morning,
Speaker 1: is it better if use blackout shades and then you
Speaker 1: just like wake up at six like all right, light
Speaker 1: here we come.
Speaker 2: I would say, if you could, maybe in an ideal world,
Speaker 2: if you could have blackout shades, red or amber light
Speaker 2: bulbs in your house at night, and then maybe one
Speaker 2: of those fancy sunrise alarm clocks uh huh and things
Speaker 2: like that that can slowly simulate an normal light dark cycle,
Speaker 2: that's probably gonna be the most beneficial to us than
Speaker 2: just like one thing. If you just put blackout shades,
Speaker 2: you're right, you're gonna be blocking out the daylight in
Speaker 2: the morning, so it might be harder to wake up.
Speaker 2: But then if you add a little sunrise simulator, that's
Speaker 2: gonna wake your little butt up easier in the morning.
Speaker 1: So you know where we can all just sleep on
Speaker 1: the porch with no light pollution.
Speaker 2: This big old, ugly street lamp that's like right outside
Speaker 2: my bedroom window that just makes me sad every time
Speaker 2: I see it. Kill me slowly?
Speaker 1: What else just kills her?
Speaker 3: Okay? Worst thing about your job.
Speaker 1: Shittiest thing about your job? What sucks? Okay, other than
Speaker 1: me cramming you into this like tiny hot recording booth
Speaker 1: in July.
Speaker 2: Honestly, the recording booth isn't that bad. It's the literal
Speaker 2: I don't know if you can see it, but like
Speaker 2: footstool that they put it there, my butt it is
Speaker 2: so sore. It's fine. It's basically like simulating a squat
Speaker 2: for an hour and a half, but my thighs will
Speaker 2: be glorious. So I wanted to say emails because they suck,
Speaker 2: but I'll be honest. I'm somebody who I check my
Speaker 2: email like thirty times a day because there's something satisfying
Speaker 2: about getting an email. I feel like I'm wanted. So really,
Speaker 2: the thing, and this is, you know, anybody who's potentially
Speaker 2: interested in doing circadian rhythms research. There's this running joke
Speaker 2: that in order to study circadian rhythms, we have to
Speaker 2: fuck up our own So my master's experiments, I would
Speaker 2: have to go in from like ten to eleven at
Speaker 2: night and then be back in lab at six am
Speaker 2: in order to run my experiments. I've done experiments here
Speaker 2: at Illinois where I had to be in lab from
Speaker 2: like seven pm to like five am, checking animals circadian
Speaker 2: rhythms research be prepared to not have any more circadian rhythms,
Speaker 2: like just oh my god.
Speaker 1: So that I mean this is like doctors. Doctors have
Speaker 1: like the worst health yep, what is the best thing
Speaker 1: about what you do? What do you love the most
Speaker 1: about it? Or about circadian rhythms?
Speaker 2: So I'll answer this with two things, so I'm gonna cheat.
Speaker 2: So my favorite thing about being a scientist in general
Speaker 2: is like that moment where like your data start to
Speaker 2: slowly make sense, and they never really fully make sense,
Speaker 2: because that's life. But when you start to create a
Speaker 2: story with your data, it's some of the most exciting
Speaker 2: exciting moments of your life as a researcher. And then
Speaker 2: you get to talk to people about it, either through
Speaker 2: podcasting or through social media, or through conferences or writing papers.
Speaker 2: It's some of the most exciting times of being a researcher.
Speaker 2: And then also you start to develop new ideas and
Speaker 2: new questions because science now or ends about circadian rhythms
Speaker 2: in general. We didn't get to talk about this, but
Speaker 2: circadian rhythms don't just regulate hormones, but they are also
Speaker 2: regulated by hormones themselves, So like things like estudial or
Speaker 2: estrogens in testosterone and cortisol and all those fun hormones
Speaker 2: we like to talk about, those actually feedback and regulate
Speaker 2: circadian rhythms too, So like circadian rhythms don't just do things,
Speaker 2: but they also then get feedback and get regulated by
Speaker 2: not just environmental cues but also internal cues too. And
Speaker 2: I think it's just so fascinating. It comes back to
Speaker 2: my love of homeostasis again. I don't know why, but
Speaker 2: it exists.
Speaker 1: So I'm realizing in summation, I can't treat my body
Speaker 1: like a robot. I'm a human organism, and I have
Speaker 1: to treat it at least as nicely as I would
Speaker 1: my dog.
Speaker 2: Yeah, love your dog, Love.
Speaker 3: You, right?
Speaker 1: I mean I would never expect poor dog to like,
Speaker 1: not eat for most of the day because it was
Speaker 1: like working, and then just give it a bunch of
Speaker 1: doughnuts and pepsi and then keep it up all night
Speaker 1: and be like, what, why do you feel like shit?
Speaker 3: You would never do that to an animal.
Speaker 2: Though, No, we're not machines.
Speaker 3: This is interesting.
Speaker 1: I feel like the takeaway from this is it we're
Speaker 1: fragile beings.
Speaker 3: We need tenderness and sleep and food schedule in schedules
Speaker 3: and routines, even though we hate them. Oh my god,
Speaker 3: so routines are our friends. Oh oh.
Speaker 2: Sleep and now insomnia is a completely different beast. Insomnia's
Speaker 2: needs tender love and care from a different perspective. But
Speaker 2: just like sleep procrastination, general sleep difficulties like trouble getting
Speaker 2: to sleep that's not related to insomnia, Get a damn schedule.
Speaker 1: Get a damn schedule.
Speaker 3: Thank you almost doctor, doctors orders.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So. For more on Katherine Hatcher and the podcast Endocrine Disruptors,
Speaker 1: co hosted by Shrea Patal, go to endocrinepod dot com.
Speaker 1: Katherine is on Twitter as super Chismatic. There's a link
Speaker 1: in the show notes. There are also links to all
Speaker 1: the sponsors and to the charity Stem Advocacy Institute. I'm
Speaker 1: Ali Ward with one L on Twitter and Instagram. Say
Speaker 1: hi over there. We are at ologies on both. More
Speaker 1: links are up at aliward dot com slash ologies slash chronobiology.
Speaker 1: You can check out the show notes for more links,
Speaker 1: including links to merch. Thank you Bonnie Dutch and Shannon
Speaker 1: Felts for managing the merch they have a podcast called
Speaker 1: You Are that They're so charming and funny. And to
Speaker 1: Aaron Talbert and Hannah Lippo for admitting the Ologies podcast
Speaker 1: Facebook group. Thank you to assistant editor Jarret Sleeper of
Speaker 1: mind Jam Media and the mental health podcast My Good
Speaker 1: Bad Brain. Thank you to Emily White and all the
Speaker 1: transcribers in the Ologies Transcribers Group. I See You, I
Speaker 1: Love You. Bleeped episodes for kiddos and transcripts of some
Speaker 1: of the episodes are available at aliward dot com, slash
Speaker 1: Ologies Dashed extras a link in the show notes, and
Speaker 1: of course thanks to the man who was guided not
Speaker 1: by light or by dark, but by the beacon of
Speaker 1: ambition from his mustache. Lead editor Stephen Ray Morris, who
Speaker 1: also hosts the per cast and see Jurassic Right. Please
Speaker 1: get some more sleep, Stephen. The theme song was written
Speaker 1: by Nick Thorbird of the band Islands, which is a
Speaker 1: great band. And at the end of the episode, you know,
Speaker 1: I tell you a secret. And this week I woke
Speaker 1: up and I was like, I love the smell of
Speaker 1: a Christmas tree in the house, and then I remembered
Speaker 1: we don't have one, and then I had left a
Speaker 1: pine scented candle burning all night in my office. I'm
Speaker 1: very lucky nobody died. It smelled so good. The salates
Speaker 1: literally likely killing me. So please get some sleep. Please
Speaker 1: do not do it with any candles burning. Let me
Speaker 1: be a lesson. I got very lucky. Get some shut eye.
Speaker 1: You super chismatic nucleus is begging for it, as am I.
Speaker 1: So if you good yourselves the little monkeys, I'm so
Speaker 1: glad to be back. I slept so much when I
Speaker 1: had the flu, and that this episode perhaps has changed
Speaker 1: me forever. I'm kind of like sleep. It's cool now,
Speaker 1: I get it, Okay. Bye, Packiderman College Bambiology for do zoology, lithology, Yeah, Zeronology, meteorology, feratology, ethology, seriology, seology.
Speaker 1: You went up all night, of course I've been up
Speaker 1: all night. Not because of caffeine. It was insomnia. I
Speaker 1: couldn't stop thinking about coffee. I needed that. Get value.
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