WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.080 --> 00:00:02.319 Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership. 2 00:00:02.399 --> 00:00:03.720 I'm Chris and I'm Lorenzo. 3 00:00:03.759 --> 00:00:06.719 And Lorenzo. On this episode, we're continuing the discussion that 4 00:00:06.719 --> 00:00:08.560 we've been having for the last couple of weeks on 5 00:00:08.720 --> 00:00:11.359 kind of going through the list of kind of a 6 00:00:11.480 --> 00:00:14.919 backlog of listener questions that have been submitted to us 7 00:00:14.960 --> 00:00:17.920 over the last maybe nine or ten months that we 8 00:00:17.960 --> 00:00:20.600 haven't gotten through yet. You know, we tend to want 9 00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:23.160 to answer questions from listeners that are very specific to 10 00:00:23.239 --> 00:00:25.960 something that one of our listeners is going through, a 11 00:00:26.039 --> 00:00:27.879 kind of a real world example of something that we 12 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:32.719 can help out with, and you know, sometimes we gravitate 13 00:00:32.799 --> 00:00:36.200 less towards the questions that are kind of generalized or 14 00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:38.119 in theory. But I think a lot of these are 15 00:00:38.159 --> 00:00:40.960 important questions to answer. They may not just be able 16 00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:43.000 to fill up an entire episode. So we want to 17 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:45.119 go through this list of questions that we've kind of 18 00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:48.119 kept in the hopper from our listeners who have you know, 19 00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:51.560 reached out to us via LinkedIn, Instagram, text message, email, 20 00:00:51.960 --> 00:00:55.560 and kind of go through that list because they are 21 00:00:55.600 --> 00:00:59.240 important questions and if one person's reaching out to ask them, 22 00:00:59.479 --> 00:01:01.759 then clearly others have the same questions in their mind too, 23 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:04.359 or you know, maybe something they're they're worried about. If 24 00:01:04.359 --> 00:01:06.400 you haven't listened to these episodes for the last two Mondays, 25 00:01:06.439 --> 00:01:08.319 please go back and do so. We've we've covered some 26 00:01:08.359 --> 00:01:11.560 great topics on The first question I want to tackle 27 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:14.840 in this episode was sent by a listener six months 28 00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:19.799 ago now, and they were wondering about generational differences in 29 00:01:19.959 --> 00:01:23.079 the workplace, because there's there are a lot of not 30 00:01:23.120 --> 00:01:27.359 just organizations, but actual teams where there could be two, three, 31 00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:30.840 or even four different generations of people on the same 32 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:35.079 team being led by the same leader. And clearly the 33 00:01:35.560 --> 00:01:39.760 leadership style needed in order to lead a team of 34 00:01:39.879 --> 00:01:44.680 people that are of multiple generations is different. You have 35 00:01:44.760 --> 00:01:46.560 to be able to lead people and meet them where 36 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:51.760 they are, and different generations, they are potentially or almost 37 00:01:51.799 --> 00:01:56.120 definitely looking for a different type of leader, you know, 38 00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:58.680 than someone of a different generation, someone who's twenty or 39 00:01:58.719 --> 00:02:01.000 thirty years older or younger than that. They might be looking 40 00:02:01.000 --> 00:02:04.120 for a different type of leader. And it's important if 41 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:07.640 if a leader wants the entire team performing at a 42 00:02:07.640 --> 00:02:10.000 at a high level, then they need to be able 43 00:02:10.039 --> 00:02:14.680 to lead everybody. And so so the idea of generational 44 00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:17.879 differences impacting the leadership style. I think it's a really 45 00:02:17.919 --> 00:02:19.879 important one. I think I think a lot of leaders 46 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:25.120 they might, you know, they might find it easier to 47 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:28.319 lead people who are of the same generation as them, 48 00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:31.840 or maybe one generation removed from from who they are, 49 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:33.960 but they might find a harder time doing it from 50 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:37.360 somebody who is two or more generations removed from their own. 51 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:41.400 Yeah, I would tell you in my experience absolutely, I 52 00:02:41.599 --> 00:02:46.960 would think that the places that you work, the industries 53 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:49.919 that you work in, the expectations of the job, how 54 00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:55.759 how the jobs that people are doing in different generations, 55 00:02:55.759 --> 00:02:59.000 like are they the same job? Are they different jobs? Like? 56 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:01.479 That has a lot to do I think with the 57 00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:07.599 leader and the ability to have maybe easier relationships or 58 00:03:07.639 --> 00:03:11.960 easier ways of leading through generations. I think in my experience, 59 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:15.400 and you know, coming up in retail, you know, even 60 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:19.400 the generations, the generational differences, everybody's kind of doing the 61 00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:22.840 same thing, which that that does make it much easier 62 00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:26.439 because those connection points, the dialogue, the conversations can really 63 00:03:26.960 --> 00:03:31.599 revolve around, you know, the work that's being done and 64 00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:33.800 kind of getting to know people through that work. I 65 00:03:33.800 --> 00:03:38.680 think there are many industries where typically the different generations 66 00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:41.039 may play different roles because those have been people have 67 00:03:41.080 --> 00:03:43.360 been around longer, they've had a chance to have more experience, 68 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:46.919 they're they're doing things that maybe on the surface might 69 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:50.319 look similar, but there's definitely some differences in the work 70 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:53.639 as a result of people that have more experience and 71 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:55.479 more tenure in the jobs. And I think that can 72 00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:57.800 make it a little bit more difficult if you're you know, 73 00:03:57.800 --> 00:04:00.639 if you're leading a team like of an lists and 74 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:02.800 you've kind of got you know, brand new analysts and 75 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:04.960 then you've got like senior analysts and then you've got 76 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:08.520 you know, like like that that change not only in 77 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:13.479 maybe you know, capability and uh and the job can 78 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:17.600 many times be because of tenure. And then that of course, 79 00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:19.800 then tenure means somebody's been doing it longer, So there's 80 00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:22.920 a chance that there is a generational gap there that 81 00:04:22.959 --> 00:04:27.680 can be much more difficult if there are different expectations 82 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:31.800 for the jobs and different levels of you know, of 83 00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:34.519 work that needs to be done, because even though you 84 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:36.439 may be talking about the same things, you're gonna have 85 00:04:36.439 --> 00:04:39.079 to talk about them in different ways. And then you're 86 00:04:39.160 --> 00:04:42.560 you're you're spending time as a leader talking to someone 87 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:45.959 who's probably maybe done the job they're doing longer than 88 00:04:45.959 --> 00:04:48.959 you've been a leader, right, And and that again that 89 00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:51.399 that that can make it difficult, and that can happen 90 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:54.519 in other industries too, where people are doing the same job, 91 00:04:55.120 --> 00:04:59.560 but typically over time there's an evolution there around, you know, 92 00:05:00.199 --> 00:05:04.399 kind of growth and commonality of goals and adjustments and things. 93 00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:07.360 So I don't know, I think that it is definitely 94 00:05:07.519 --> 00:05:14.120 my experience, it probably is impacted more for leaders in 95 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:17.759 different industries across the way. And which is why I 96 00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:20.720 love these kind of questions because even though we might 97 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:23.879 we might not have this happen to us or or 98 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:26.879 experienced it very often, there are definitely other places in 99 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:30.360 other industries where this is much more prevalent and requires, 100 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:34.120 you know, there to be an openness and a curiosity 101 00:05:34.519 --> 00:05:38.480 about getting to know people and individually the people on 102 00:05:38.519 --> 00:05:40.360 your team, and I think that could be really helpful 103 00:05:40.360 --> 00:05:41.879 in closing some of those generational gaps. 104 00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:43.199 Yeah, I think you're spot on with that, and I 105 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:45.319 like the example that you gave with that, or the 106 00:05:45.319 --> 00:05:48.600 context you put it in, because you know, it used 107 00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:51.920 to be that if people were doing the same job 108 00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:54.959 that they were, they were more likely to be of 109 00:05:55.040 --> 00:05:59.079 the same generation or very similar because of the way 110 00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:02.600 that people progress through a career and get promoted, and 111 00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:04.959 and and if you were leading a team of people 112 00:06:05.319 --> 00:06:10.879 who were of significantly different generations, that typically that implies 113 00:06:11.439 --> 00:06:15.839 that the people in those roles, some of them are 114 00:06:15.879 --> 00:06:18.279 looking at it as a stepping stone to something bigger 115 00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:20.240 and they want to move up or go on, whereas 116 00:06:20.279 --> 00:06:21.959 other people might just be looking at it as they're 117 00:06:21.959 --> 00:06:23.360 happy where they are, they don't want to move up, 118 00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:26.279 and this is their career. And then so they end 119 00:06:26.360 --> 00:06:28.839 up having a lot of tenure in those roles, and 120 00:06:28.920 --> 00:06:31.319 you end up with you know, older people and younger 121 00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:33.560 people doing the same role because people you know don't 122 00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:36.800 want to move up. I think I think a lot 123 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:44.360 of this is is misclassified as generational differences, when in 124 00:06:44.439 --> 00:06:49.759 actuality it is you know, the leadership style is just that. 125 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:54.000 I think some leaders have a difficult time leading people 126 00:06:54.560 --> 00:06:59.920 who are one or two generations older than who they 127 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:03.439 they are versus one or two generations younger than who 128 00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:07.839 they are, because there is a kind of like an 129 00:07:07.959 --> 00:07:11.519 an inherent belief that oh, I have to I have 130 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:15.720 to show these people that I am qualified to be here. 131 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:19.199 To be to the leader of this team, that that 132 00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:24.439 there's almost like this assumption going into the relationship that 133 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:27.439 you're working from a deficit, that the person who's looking 134 00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:29.519 at you as the leader is thinking, oh, I've been 135 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:31.839 doing this job longer than you've been with the company, 136 00:07:31.959 --> 00:07:33.839 or you know, since you were in high school or 137 00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:36.879 whatever it is, and and that that person goes into 138 00:07:36.879 --> 00:07:39.360 the into it thinking that they have to overcome that. 139 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:43.639 And while I'm not saying that doesn't happen, I think 140 00:07:43.879 --> 00:07:49.920 acknowledging that sometimes can exacerbate the problem, and talking about 141 00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:53.879 it from a standpoint of what what is? What are 142 00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:56.879 the people on your team looking for from you as 143 00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:02.000 the leader and starting there and commonality in the job 144 00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:05.399 that they are doing can can break the ice from 145 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:09.160 that standpoint. But I also think that you know, regardless 146 00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:13.079 of who a person is and what generation they are 147 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:18.000 a part of, there are some commonalities between all people 148 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:21.639 in terms of what they're looking for, just because the 149 00:08:21.800 --> 00:08:25.519 expectations of leaders have changed over time and the transparency 150 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:29.759 and availability of information out there for what makes a 151 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:32.480 good leader, and you know, people who've worked for different 152 00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:35.080 jobs and different leaders and their opinions of what makes 153 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:38.240 a good leader versus a bad leader. You know those things. 154 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:44.480 The availability of that information can help leaders find that 155 00:08:44.600 --> 00:08:47.799 commonality and focus on those things rather than focusing on 156 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:51.000 the differences. And so, you know what, whether someone is, 157 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:53.159 you know, twenty four years old and in their first 158 00:08:53.240 --> 00:08:56.120 job after college, or doing the exact same role and 159 00:08:56.159 --> 00:09:00.360 they are fifty two and they they been in the 160 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:03.600 workforce for you know, thirty years, the things that people 161 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:07.840 want are they want a leader who is supportive of 162 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:10.320 their goals, which at whatever they are. So if my 163 00:09:10.399 --> 00:09:12.039 goal is to move up, I want a leader who 164 00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:15.360 supports my wanting to move up, whatever that looks like. 165 00:09:15.639 --> 00:09:17.960 If I'm wanting to stay exactly where I am and 166 00:09:18.039 --> 00:09:21.600 not move up, I want a leader who supports my 167 00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:26.399 belief in terms of what micromanaging versus leaving me alone. 168 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:29.320 The proper level of support is for the job I'm 169 00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:32.720 getting done. If I am in the middle of my 170 00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:36.639 career and I feel like I can bring a lot 171 00:09:36.639 --> 00:09:39.639 to the table from a knowledge standpoint, I don't want 172 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:43.480 a leader coming in and trying to prove to me 173 00:09:44.039 --> 00:09:46.600 that they are able to do it by their words. 174 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:53.240 I want them to acknowledge the knowledge, skills and abilities 175 00:09:53.240 --> 00:09:55.039 that I've brought to the table for the time that 176 00:09:55.080 --> 00:09:59.639 I've been doing it, and leverage those things in the 177 00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:03.360 secution of whatever the goals are. To show me that 178 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:05.879 that what I bring to the table is valued, not 179 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:08.399 try to just show me that, oh you can trust me. 180 00:10:08.759 --> 00:10:10.519 I've been doing this a long time too. It's like, 181 00:10:10.799 --> 00:10:14.519 if you have to say it, then you and then 182 00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:16.919 at some point you'll you'll give the impression to your 183 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:19.799 people that you don't have the actions or the skills 184 00:10:19.799 --> 00:10:21.080 to back it up. So you have to say it 185 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:24.679 instead sometimes just doing it and moving through it and 186 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:28.639 showing that whatever you don't have to bring with you, 187 00:10:29.559 --> 00:10:31.600 that you can leverage that from your team and that 188 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:33.639 you know who the right people are. I think a 189 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:35.600 lot of that is where leaders can can do this 190 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:37.360 the right way as opposed to the wrong way. 191 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:39.360 Yeah, it's so funny you were talking through that, and 192 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:42.200 I know this is to your point. It's it's the 193 00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:48.720 questions are around leading different generations, but the the ability 194 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:55.080 to build connection and to to help, you know, to 195 00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:58.440 help support people wherever they are with whatever background or 196 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:02.279 experience they have. That's really kind of the underlying element 197 00:11:02.440 --> 00:11:06.799 of this. It's rare, if ever that I ever hear 198 00:11:06.879 --> 00:11:09.720 somebody saying like, well, you you just can't lead me, Chris, 199 00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:14.799 because you don't understand what I went through thirty years ago. No, like, no, like, 200 00:11:14.840 --> 00:11:17.120 it's not that's not where I don't I don't ever 201 00:11:17.159 --> 00:11:20.919 hear that. I think you may you don't understand me 202 00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:23.960 because you don't maybe understand my perspective, or you're not 203 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:28.919 seeing it from my viewpoint, or or you're not hearing 204 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:32.679 what I'm saying as I'm explaining you know, why this 205 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:34.600 would be an issue or why this could be an issue, 206 00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:37.519 you know, and I'm pulling this form maybe something that 207 00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:40.600 happened many, many, many years ago. So it can feel 208 00:11:40.679 --> 00:11:43.720 like it's because we're from different generations, but the reality 209 00:11:43.720 --> 00:11:45.799 is you're just not listening to me, right, You're not 210 00:11:45.799 --> 00:11:50.360 You're not giving me a response or or attention to 211 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:54.000 what I'm saying, and you're not taking into account my 212 00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:56.720 many years of experience that can help us in the situation. 213 00:11:56.799 --> 00:11:58.639 So I love that you said that because I was 214 00:11:58.679 --> 00:12:01.360 just having a conversation with someone the the day around, 215 00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:05.960 like you know, do more and direct less, you know 216 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:07.840 what I mean? Like, like, there's a lot of times 217 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:12.159 in leadership where we want to give advice or perspective, 218 00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:17.360 or we feel that like giving direction on how to 219 00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:20.240 go do something is the best way to handle it. 220 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:23.519 They don't know what they don't know sometimes, or they're 221 00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:26.080 showing you in their actions they actually don't know how 222 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:27.960 to do it, even if they are telling you they do, 223 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:31.440 like the actions show otherwise. So instead of spending so 224 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:35.120 much more time continuing to direct or being more clear 225 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:38.639 or whatever the case is, just say, let's go do this, like, 226 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:40.679 go do it, Go show them, go be a part 227 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:44.879 of it, but also be transparent enough to tell them that, say, hey, hey, Chris, 228 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:47.799 you know what, Like, I've realized that I've been doing 229 00:12:47.799 --> 00:12:49.360 a lot of directingly. I've been telling you a lot 230 00:12:49.399 --> 00:12:50.679 of things that I like for you to go do, 231 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:53.600 and and I know that I see you doing these things, 232 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:55.720 but I also see that that you're not getting the 233 00:12:55.759 --> 00:12:57.879 outcome that you're looking for, like like it's not having 234 00:12:57.879 --> 00:13:00.000 the impact that you want. So I'm going to change 235 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:01.879 into what I'm doing here. We're gonna do this together. 236 00:13:01.879 --> 00:13:03.879 I'm gonna do it with you right, And I want 237 00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:06.720 to make sure that I can see your vantage point. 238 00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:08.519 I want to make sure that I can role model 239 00:13:08.519 --> 00:13:10.720 for you what this would look like. I want us 240 00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:13.399 to do these actions together and then we're going to 241 00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:15.519 talk about them after each one to kind of see 242 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:17.039 what did I see? What did you see? What could 243 00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:19.240 we have done differently? How could we adjust this? But 244 00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:21.320 I want us to spend more time doing this together 245 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:23.600 than just talking about what we're going to go do, 246 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:26.759 and let's see if that's going to have a more 247 00:13:26.799 --> 00:13:31.120 impactful outcome to what you're looking for in your business, 248 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:34.720 Like go have that conversation, you know, I think that's 249 00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:38.559 that's critical and that will then you know, that will 250 00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:42.240 go beyond any type of a generational potential gap that 251 00:13:42.360 --> 00:13:46.519 might be be had in communication or perspective or experience. 252 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:48.279 Right. Well, so let's let's be real here. When a 253 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:51.519 person says you're not hearing me, or or you're not 254 00:13:51.559 --> 00:13:55.240 taking into account my experience or the years that I 255 00:13:55.279 --> 00:13:58.600 put into this, what what they're really saying is you're 256 00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:02.360 not valuing that I have put a value on that experience. 257 00:14:02.440 --> 00:14:05.759 I have put a value on the things that I've done, 258 00:14:06.279 --> 00:14:10.840 and you are interacting with me like that doesn't matter 259 00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:15.080 to you, which devalues my experience and now makes me 260 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:19.519 feel like you don't you are grouping me in with 261 00:14:19.639 --> 00:14:22.879 other people who don't have that experience. And let's be honest, 262 00:14:23.080 --> 00:14:25.000 there could be a lot of experience that somebody has 263 00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:28.399 that is not relevant to the current job because the 264 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:31.200 expectations of the role have changed, the expectations of your clients, 265 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:35.480 your customers have changed. But that doesn't mean that you 266 00:14:35.960 --> 00:14:41.159 can cast that experience aside and say there's no value there. 267 00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:46.159 It has value from a standpoint of learnings, because you 268 00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:48.159 learn over time, and you get better over time, and 269 00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:50.000 you and if a person is able to do a 270 00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:52.480 job for a lot of years, then hopefully that means 271 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:55.200 that they've had to change over years too, they've had 272 00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:58.480 to acquire new skills. And I love the context that 273 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:01.360 you put that in from when you said, you know, 274 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:03.519 you're doing these things that I'm asking you to do, 275 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:07.159 but you're not getting the outcomes that you want. And 276 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:10.240 I think that's such a crucial way to put it, 277 00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:12.679 because the wrong way to put it would be to 278 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:15.440 say you're doing these things, but you're doing them incorrectly, 279 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:18.159 because now it becomes subjective. It's like oh no, oh, 280 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:21.240 your ways better than my way. It's like, well, yes, 281 00:15:21.320 --> 00:15:23.879 technically it is, yes, my way of telling you, do 282 00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:25.799 this is better than your way, but I'm not going 283 00:15:25.879 --> 00:15:29.080 to tell you that, because the objective way to look 284 00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:31.799 at it is the outcomes that we're looking for. And 285 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:33.320 a person might be able to come back at you 286 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:36.320 and say, well, why is your way better than my way, 287 00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:38.960 and then you get into an argument about the subjectivity 288 00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:41.320 of the ways that are better, But you can't argue 289 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:43.440 the outcomes. The outcomes are what they are. And so 290 00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:47.759 in the context of hey, you know you're doing these 291 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:50.720 things exactly like I'm asking you to do, it looks 292 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:53.759 like you're not getting the outcomes that you're looking for. 293 00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:56.159 There's no way to argue that either they are or 294 00:15:56.200 --> 00:16:00.240 they or not. The scorecards, the results, the profits, whatever 295 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:02.679 they are, whatever the measurement is you're looking at. If 296 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:06.039 that's not there, by definition, they're not getting the outcomes 297 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:08.840 that you're looking for, and so that kind of diffuses 298 00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:11.399 the situation, I think, from a standpoint of trying to 299 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:13.840 tell them that they're doing something wrong and saying, hey, 300 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:16.759 let's let's go work at this together, because at some 301 00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:19.960 point both of you, the leader and the employee, both 302 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:22.759 of you want the same outcomes. You want whatever those 303 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:26.840 positive outcomes are you want the expectations met, And if 304 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:30.399 you can get past the idea of somebody's doing something 305 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:32.879 right or wrong and move on to how can we 306 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:35.639 get the outcomes you're looking for, then then you've gone 307 00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:38.440 about it in a way that preserves their dignity and 308 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:43.720 preserves their belief that you value what they've brought to 309 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:48.639 the table without kind of casting that aside, but with 310 00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:52.799 also not shirking your responsibility as the leader that says, 311 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:55.320 you know, I have a responsibility to deliver an outcome 312 00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:57.919 here from each of the people on my team, and 313 00:16:58.039 --> 00:17:00.240 whatever it takes to get there is the right way way. 314 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:04.279 So the catharsis that some leaders get from, you know, 315 00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:08.559 taking somebody to school. Stop stop with that. You don't 316 00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:11.119 need the catharsis of taking somebody to school. You want 317 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:15.759 the good feeling of the win that says you got 318 00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:18.759 somewhere with people as a team and that they looked 319 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:20.960 at you as someone who was able to support them 320 00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:23.440 in getting there, even if they don't even realize that's 321 00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:25.920 what's happening in the moment. If you've gotten the win 322 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:29.920 because you've gotten them to deliver the result that is 323 00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:33.240 being looked for, then that's a win period. Even if 324 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:35.839 they believe they got there completely on their own, that 325 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:38.400 part doesn't matter. Your role as a leader is to 326 00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:42.480 get them there, even if you have to swallow your 327 00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:44.640 pride for a few minutes, honor what they brought to 328 00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:46.559 the table, and then figure out a way to work 329 00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:47.880 to get the proper result. 330 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:50.720 Absolutely, and with that it exists. This episode is one 331 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:53.839 minute hack. But first, if you were from our sponsors. 332 00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:55.559 All right, for this episode one minute hackers, I want 333 00:17:55.559 --> 00:17:57.279 you to do write down a list of the people 334 00:17:57.279 --> 00:17:59.839 on your team and write down what generation that they 335 00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:04.400 are from approximately, and start by kind of looking at 336 00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:08.559 contaking inventory of the spread that you have on your team, 337 00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:13.960 and go into these conversations realizing that different people are 338 00:18:13.960 --> 00:18:16.599 going to value different things. Talk with each of them 339 00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:19.440 individually about what their goals are or what they want 340 00:18:19.480 --> 00:18:22.119 to do, not from a standpoint of trying to prescribe 341 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:25.960 goals to them, but from a genuine curiosity standpoint of hey, 342 00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:28.839 how can I support you? Because asking somebody how you 343 00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:31.079 can support them is not the same thing as saying 344 00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:33.319 how can I help you get to your goals? Because 345 00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:35.559 what if their goals? What if they can't articulate what 346 00:18:35.799 --> 00:18:37.480 their goals are at the moment. What if they're not 347 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:39.400 trying to move up, what if they're not trying to promote. 348 00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:42.559 What if they're just happy where they are and you 349 00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:46.079 want to make sure that they are delivering high performance results. 350 00:18:46.519 --> 00:18:48.799 Then it starts by saying how can I support you? 351 00:18:49.559 --> 00:18:51.839 And they will tell you whether it's they want to 352 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:54.079 move up, or they're happy where they are, or they 353 00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:56.839 want to get better, whatever is they can say to you, 354 00:18:57.200 --> 00:19:01.279 But don't focus on what their goal is. Focus on 355 00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:04.079 what you can do to support them, and the goals 356 00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:07.880 will naturally come out. If it's important that everybody on 357 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:10.680 your team has goals, but you can find what they are, 358 00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:13.079 whether it's getting better at this one skill that they 359 00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:15.839 may not be excelling in, or if their goal is 360 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:18.000 to promote to the next role in the next six 361 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:20.519 months or a year. Those are very different things, but 362 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:22.200 you as a leader have to be able to bring 363 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:24.759 to the table whatever you can do to support those 364 00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:29.319 people in accomplishing those things, while while honoring the fact 365 00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:35.200 that whatever they're telling you their goal is it is 366 00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:38.359 the right answer. Like whatever they're saying is the right answer. 367 00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:39.960 You just have to know that it can change at 368 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.799 a moment's notice. Maybe they don't want to promote because 369 00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:44.799 they've never worked for a leader that was able to 370 00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:46.839 support them, and now in the face of a leader 371 00:19:46.839 --> 00:19:49.319 who is supporting them and accomplishing these little things, maybe 372 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:51.039 they decide they want to promote or they want to 373 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:54.559 move up with an organization. You'll never know that unless 374 00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:57.279 you start with us from the standpoint of just, hey, 375 00:19:57.640 --> 00:20:00.400 I want my entire team to be high performing. How 376 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:03.119 can I support you in in accomplishing that goal together? 377 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:05.839 Yeah, I think it's it's great advice. And and again 378 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:09.920 it goes I like the intention of understanding that you're 379 00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:12.039 you know, if you've got lead people on your team 380 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:15.400 that are from different generations, like number one, recognize that, 381 00:20:16.039 --> 00:20:20.279 right number two, going into those conversations and making sure 382 00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:23.640 that you're attuned to what the individual needs and asking, 383 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:26.039 you know, thoughts and advice. And I mean, I've been 384 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:28.599 in situations where simply I've just said, like, look, I 385 00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:31.880 you know, I can tell you that you've got more 386 00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:35.839 life experience than I have. I know that you've you know, 387 00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:40.400 had an opportunity to see other organizations, other jobs, other careers, 388 00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:43.519 other industries, right, and so I want to have a 389 00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:45.480 different conversation with you than I would maybe some of 390 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:47.440 the newer employees that this is their first job or 391 00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:49.519 the something new to them, Like like, what do you 392 00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:53.079 see in our business that you know we could adjust 393 00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:54.599 that could help us to be better? Like what do 394 00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:57.440 you see in my leadership that could be adjusted to 395 00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:00.039 be more inclusive of the entire team, Like I I 396 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:04.720 want to leverage somebody who has seen, you know, and 397 00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:06.920 experience more life than I have to help to make 398 00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:08.839 sure that I'm aware of my blind spots and that 399 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:11.160 I can see things through a different lens from time 400 00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:15.039 to time. So I just love that intention of those conversations, 401 00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:16.759