Speaker 1: Made a decision.
Speaker 2: Pace sunny sun on Ihturdasion night.
Speaker 3: What's up everybody? Welcome to for Crying out Loud Friday
edition with we have a special guest on our zoom
not in studio because he lives way too far away
Valley of the Dirt people on Riverside, our very own
doctor Bruce. Hey, see there a spruce.
Speaker 4: I'm in Redlands, not Riverside. How dare you?
Speaker 3: Oh sorry, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 5: Wow, Redlands. Yeah, it's pretty far. That is far.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's used to be a pit stop for
people driving from Hollywood to Palm Springs.
Speaker 6: Well, are you working still at a hospital full time?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I can't. I don't think I should say because
but yeah, it's a major hospital chain covering most of California,
So you can figure that one out.
Speaker 5: So you're still er doc?
Speaker 4: Nope, I quit do it.
Speaker 1: I'm in such demand and addiction medicine and pain medicine
that I gave up my hero status just before COVID struck.
So huh, I only used my hero status when it
was it was Nausians.
Speaker 4: I shouldn't make any jokes like that.
Speaker 1: So seriously, I'm doing addiction medicine like halftime, and I
work in the pain department with the pain specialists part
time at halftime. So I'm sure we can discuss discuss that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so would be just a little background. I've known
Bruce for over twenty years at least, right, Well, you
were at my wedding.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I got to know you with twenty
five years ago.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, And Bruce would fill in on the love
Line radio show from time to time for doctor Drew.
Speaker 1: And for thirty years, thirty painful years.
Speaker 5: On k Rock. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And uh, and so Bruce became a very good family
friend of ours.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 3: And he was I was really close to him when
my kids were little growing up because, uh, anytime they
had a rash or an illness, it was. We were
lucky enough that we had a friend that was a
doctor that we would call. And Bruce was always there
for me and the kids when we were sick.
Speaker 1: And yeah, my joke was when the let's see what
did not what I used to say when the kids
when they.
Speaker 3: When when the corollas are on the red carpet.
Speaker 4: Called doctor Drew.
Speaker 3: And when the corollas when.
Speaker 4: The kids are vomiting, called doctor Bruce.
Speaker 5: Bruce. You screwed that up.
Speaker 3: When the when the Corollas are on the red carpet,
you called doctor Drew, and when the Corollas are puking
on the carpet, we called doctor Bruce. That was you.
That was your joke.
Speaker 1: By the way, tears, Well, that's why I'm not a comedian.
That's exactly why I'm not a comedian. But anyway, it
was sort of true.
Speaker 3: Yes, no, but yes, So anyway, Bruce is a really
good doctor, and uh, we've been he's been a good friend.
But I haven't talked to you or see I haven't.
We haven't seen each other or talk to each other
in a long time.
Speaker 1: A few years since before COVID.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think around COVID was the last time we spoke,
just because you got busy and where I got busy.
But then we uh text each other recently, and then
I got caught up with you yesterday for a little
bit and I forgot what such a sweetheart you are
and I wanted to have you come on the show
and and you're so brilliant and so smart and uh,
it's always nice to talk to a doctor.
Speaker 6: I want to hear about this, like what, Yeah, what's
happening in addiction medicine, Like, what does that mean exactly?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, addiction medicine these days, a lot of
medicated medication assitts a treatment for physicians. I mean you
have the of course we're very twelve step base or
you know, somebody wants to do secular sobriety, but you know,
trying to get patients first of all to stop their
use and then get into a structured program and then
the physician rule. You know, it depends. I'm not a psychiatry,
So there's addiction psychiatry. There are different sort of approaches
to it, but you know, there's a lot of focus.
I like to look at it like there's more of
a science approach to what's going on in the brain
when somebody you know, regularly uses a substance. So you know,
for craving, there's for alcohol, there's like now trek zone,
a camp or se topamax, and some people use some
other medications. But the point is what's going on in
the brain. I mean, when I started doing this, when
the earth was cool, as my friend says, years ago,
we didn't know how alcohol got somebody drunk?
Speaker 4: Right, what's it doing? In the brain.
Speaker 1: How do they get a dissolving violin sheets or is
it you know, what is it doing? And now we
you know, we have a much better idea how alcohol intoxicates,
how the brain changes, you know, this whole idea of
brain plasticity. So again, years ago we said, well the
brain once you're eighteen or twenty, all the wirings laid
down and nothing changes. And now we know your brain
has a lot of changes it makes in response to
the environment. And you know, it turns out people that
are alcoholic, for instance, when they get alcohol like they
did some study that just.
Speaker 4: The rough description of it.
Speaker 1: They got a bunch of guys that were twenty ish
whose fathers were first degree relative alcoholic or dad's alcoholic,
and a control group got them all drunk, stuck them
in a functional MRI and looked at activity in the brain.
And they saw on the mid brain, the lizard's brain,
the you know, the limbic system, the reward area lit
up like a Christmas tree in the in the guys
whose fathers were alcoholic, not so much in the other.
So for you know, why do people lose control and
other people don't, And you know, it's I'm just being
it's sort of a very rough description of what's going on.
But you know, when you talk to somebody that's alcoholic,
all of these patents I talk to, they go, man,
the first time I got drunk, it was like I
was normal for the first time, and it was just
this and that. So they get this huge rush of endorphins,
and uh, you know, it's it's very interesting that we
understand that, we understand the brain. The brain gets used
to that, and it's like there's a difference. Now it
doesn't take away responsibility, but there's a big difference in
how the brain and how somebody feels on alcohol. And
and it goes to what do you do for craving
for alcohol? If somebody has daily craving, ongoing craving now
treks on. So patients go, what's that, Well, it's an
opiate blocker. Well I'm not an opiate addict. Where are
you giving me an al trex one? Because people that
are alcoholic get this boost of endorphins, and when you
take the alcohol away, their brain craves. You know, essentially
those receptors are not filled.
Speaker 5: So anyway, so can I ask a question?
Speaker 1: You better ask a question because I'll just keep talking
and getting This.
Speaker 6: Is absolutely fascinating to me for obvious reasons. You know,
I've been sober fifteen years, going on sixteen in May,
but sugar. Sugar is a fucking asshole that I have
similar cravings for sugar.
Speaker 5: That I used to do for alcohol.
Speaker 6: And does it Are there medications that can block your
sugar craving?
Speaker 5: Well, you know, probably not life and death, right.
Speaker 1: But you know there's that combination of now tracks on
a well view trend for you know, some of the
eating things, you know, some of the hunger things, but
not specifically, I mean, but it's it's the same idea.
It's set and then you get into process addiction, sexual
addictions and porn and stuff like that, right, right, But
the idea is what certain behaviors are, certain substances have
much more of a propensity to increase these neurotransmits theoretically.
And again I'm sure you know reason I only like
the internet or podcasting, you're gonna get pated patrols. Oh
the guy's nuts. And so I always have that in
the back of my mind. What is what I'm saying
one hundred percent? Well, we don't do brain scan we
don't do these kind of brain scans on people. We don't,
you know, put Like I was talking to Linnette last night,
a lot of this stuff fascinates me. It's like bupen
arp and your suboxone for opiate use disorder chronic pain.
So you know, again theoretically exposure to some of these substances,
again it changes the way the nervous system functions. And
providing a medication that takes away that, you know, that imbalance,
and again the way we do it our program, and
I think you know, you'd endorse this that it's not.
Speaker 4: Just a pill.
Speaker 1: There has to be there is a spiritual component. There
is you know, the wreckage of your past with addiction
and having you know, requiring again the study show you
don't have to require it, but we you know, I
tell patients, I say, you know, if you just take
this pill, you're not going to really have addressed what's
going on in your life because of the damage done
by the substance. And so we're very pro whether it's
you know, the refuge recovery or secular sobriety, whatever, it
is some sort of structure to it to address the
damage that's occurred from substance. So there's two things. It's
looking at what's going on in the brain. I think
we're a lot more neurobiologically based in treating addictions but
also addressing you know, and you guys can.
Speaker 3: B Yeah, I have a question. I'm hearing a lot
about like o zempic and stuff like that as being
as helpful for well, it's obviously helpful to curb the
appetite or whatever, but it's also they're saying that it
can help with other addictions. Is that correct?
Speaker 1: Well, that's there's evidence because what they found is that
people getting it for the initial I think indication was
for you know, diabetics, if you don't have a diabetes diagnosis.
Even now, some of the insurance plans are saying, you know,
it's great, it's great to help you, you know, you're
being overweight, but unless you have a diabetes diagnosis, we're
not gonna we're not gonna pay for it. But what
they found is that people would come back and say,
you know what, I'm since I started the ezempic, I
don't I don't crave this or that. So there's there's
just the g lp the medications. There's just a tremendous
amount of cognitive dissonance around what they do and how.
Speaker 3: KLP is the like will go and all that.
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, so are you pro or con.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm pro, but I'm saying it's just how long
do you have to take it and making substantial changes
and behavior. It's the same thing. It's like if somebody's
alcoholic and they're taking out tracks on, if somebody's got
an open use the sort of they're taking to box on.
If that's all they're doing, then it's it's what you know.
And again people, all of us in the day and age,
it's like the problem with kids with their with their
cell phones, it's that it's that quick fix. It's that
instant gratification or instant reward without putting in the time
and work and that that doesn't work.
Speaker 4: So the problem with the zepic.
Speaker 1: If it's going to take away some craving, how long
do you take it? Do you take it forever? You know,
it's like ketamine infusions for depression, right, well, how long
do you have to do that? And if you stop,
do you go back to the to the state of depression.
So a lot of these questions in medicine these treatments
come out and they're effective at that point in time,
but you know, are you is something else changing either
in the brain or in your life that supports it
supports I.
Speaker 6: Have found with twelve Step that which I am a
part of for many for the whole time, the whole
time I've been sober, I one hundred percent agree with
you to to me, A big component of it is
that there's a lot of shame involved in addiction, and
we still our society looks at it like, oh, you're
just you know, you just don't have any discipline, like
you don't have any control over yourself. And when people
get addicted to things like vict it, you know, pain
pills and stuff, I guess we understand it more because
we understand that's addictive. So when there comes to other
things like let's say food addiction, but also alcohol, I
would say, you know, a lot of people don't understand
that it is addictive. And when you're drinking and when
especially when you start really young, right, and then you
know that, oh if I go to alcohol, that.
Speaker 5: Makes me feel better.
Speaker 6: If you start self medicating with alcohol, the problem is
that there's so much shame that when you quit a
lot of people don't want to go to like aar
twelve step program because they feel embarrassed or what if
I see somebody I know there and they're missing out
the fact that it's exactly the point is you're surrounded
by other people who get exactly what you're going through.
But people, most people in my experience, wait until they've
got it's gotten so bad, right, you have to be
completely desperate to because it seems like, you know, as
they say, the last house on the block, like I
will do anything before I will admit, oh my god,
I have no control over my alcohol, and I wish
that I wish that we were going in a direction.
Speaker 5: And I hope we are.
Speaker 6: That It just became a more like if you feel
like you're drinking too much, there is help, Like it's
okay to say like, wow, I'm really like possibly misusing.
Speaker 3: And not so much shame around it.
Speaker 6: And could go earlier right in your disease in the
progression to be around other people and know that there's
a there are a lot of like high bottom alcoholics
in twelve step programs. There's a lot of really normal people.
It didn't lose everything, do you know what I'm saying yeah.
Speaker 1: No, absolutely, and you know it's almost like, oh.
Speaker 4: They have a high they had a high bottom.
Speaker 1: You know, you go to a meeting and it's like, well,
yeah that I mean, I'm not I'm sort of a
non recovery codependent, as Lynette knows. But I'll go to
you know, after all these years, I'll go to open
meetings and listen to speakers, and sometimes at the end
of the speaker meeting, somebody go, oh, yeah, they had
a high bottom compared to mine, and it's almost like
you know, there it's it's a merit badge. The lower
your bottom is. I think today it's better than it was.
I think you just like discussions we're having. There's more
awareness that it is a shame based disease and and
to to acknowledge that, you know, sunlight's the best disinfectant.
Once you get that, you're able to be honest about
what's happened. Everything, it's like that turnaround and it's the
pink cloud, right. Sometimes the first the first time somebody
gets sober and it's like ah, every everything's there's this
huge relief. Well, there's a lot of work to do,
but you know, I think it's it's definitely what you're
saying is true. It's like getting that being able to
just acknowledge and not be ashamed.
Speaker 4: I think gives you just a huge, you.
Speaker 1: Know a huge advantage in getting sober and maintaining sobriety.
And that's you know, that's ideally what AA twelve step
programs do. I think it's.
Speaker 6: It's really ridiculous that in this day and age, you
can't say like, oh I got addicted to vicoin without
people like holding that over your head for you know,
the next twenty years and going like, oh, well that
person was addicted to the pill popper. Oh they weren't,
you know, or like I still hear comments about like, oh,
she's just an alcoholic. What kind of horrible mom is
like an alcoholic? Well, when we have these ridiculous notions
of people not being able to not parenting, not doing
there are so many functional alcoholics or drugs that are
doing everything they need to do but feeling pain because
they can't admit because it feels like, oh, then.
Speaker 5: There's no going back.
Speaker 6: If I say like, oh, this is a problem I have,
then then I'm never gonna No one's ever gonna let
it go. You know, we need to get out of
that way thinking so that people find it.
Speaker 5: Easier to ask for help.
Speaker 3: Well also too, when you share your own personal stories
like we've had, you know, in our past, Like then
you know people you think like when you by doing that,
you're helping other people that are going through the same thing.
That's that's the reason why you want to share your stories.
But then you also get the other Yeah that nega,
But but then it's a it's a twofold because you're
you're helping some people, but then you're also bringing you know,
that that that that the people like you know, uh,
like we were saying, you're.
Speaker 6: Inviting invite people to touch you and hold it over you,
and then it makes it harder for other people to
go like I think I have a problem problem, you know,
because they don't want to be in the fire, right.
Speaker 5: Yeah, what do you say to people like that? Doctor Bruce.
Speaker 1: Hold on a sa I'm just I'm sorry, I've cleared
my schedule for a bit, but I've got to be
logged in here.
Speaker 6: This is doctor Bruce's way of like wrestling. Where was
that paper rephrase question? Okay, yeah, let's take it and
take a quick break ahead.
Speaker 3: Answer your email. We know you're a doctor.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna met you, Bruce, so we'll be back in
like two minutes and you can do your thing.
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Speaker 5: Okay, I will rephrase the question for you.
Speaker 6: How are you being in this business of addiction medicine?
How are you helping tell people like not to be ashamed?
Speaker 5: You know what I mean?
Speaker 6: Are you helping break down the stigma?
Speaker 1: Well, it's on an individual level, you know. I love
talking to new new patients and again they have been
referred by their primary care physician or pain medicine. There's
a variety of things, but I start out with them
and yeah, frequently there's something horrendous that's happened. You know,
it's like, uh, work related, van relationship related. But you know,
my what I tell the patient and I you know,
go off on my spiel about the neurobiology of it,
and I say, let's let's just look at how you
how you got to this place, because there is a
lot of shame. It's like it's it's because you're you
have a biology that predisposed me to this, and really
explaining that in detail, because I think that gets somebody
a foothold. So for me, that's that's the first place.
And then because they're so focused on you know, I
mean horrendous things that may have got duy, somebody got hurt,
or their wife, husband, partner's going to leave them, you
know what I'm saying. So then I start out and
again I'm not a therapist or a psychiatrist, but starting
out with you know, because it's like I say to him,
you know, if somebody told you you have lung cancer,
you want to know what type, what the treatments are
that work, you know, And in addictions, it's also important
to understand, you know, how you got to where you are.
And I think it takes some of the guilt away
and the shame way and then I then you end
up by saying, but it doesn't take away the responsibility
now to do the right thing and start asking what's
the best way for me?
Speaker 4: To change my change.
Speaker 1: My life, stay sober, stay off the substance, you know.
So that's that's one thing. The other thing, get a
lot of referrals people that are you know, they want
harm reduction again that I see that more and more
now than before. Oh well, I'm not sure I want
to quit drinking. They'll they'll hear about the you know,
the the Sinclair method where you take now track phone
only before you drink so you don't want to drink
as much. And there, you know again people want quick fixes.
But anyway, so I don't know if that answers.
Speaker 5: Your question, but yeah, I think.
Speaker 6: With harm reduction, I totally get it. I'm not a
person who's like anti harm reduction, especially if you're talking
about heroin.
Speaker 5: Or you know, because we know there's.
Speaker 3: A terrible heroine problem in America right.
Speaker 4: Now, don't get me started.
Speaker 6: So but I feel like a lot of people really
want to moderate. I mean, I can't tell you how
many people have emailed me or like hit me up
on Facebook and they're like, I'm not really ready to quit,
but like how do I moderate? And it's like, well,
you don't because you're not, because you can't, like if
you're coming to somebody. If you're saying, like I have
this problem where I just keep drinking out of control,
then I guarantee you you've already tried moderating. You've already
tried it and failed a lot of times. So it's
to me, it's like, do you want to get off
that train where it's leading nowhere good and just give
you know what I mean? It's like, that's the thing
that really helped me a lot, was just giving up
the idea that at some point I'm really going to
get this thing, Like, at some point, I'm just going
to keep it to two drinks a couple times a week.
Someday I will do that successfully and not do it
twice and then drink seven drinks.
Speaker 5: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, like a bad relation It's like you know Kobler
Ross's stages of grief and breaking up with a bad relationship.
Speaker 4: I mean, people, there's there's.
Speaker 1: The behavior of you know, you just don't want to
let it go, you know, they and and so I'll
see a lot of people back and I'll do the noltres.
I'll say, look, you know it's not really approved, but
if you're and I'll tell them, I'll say, you know,
I'm not trying to depress you, but you know I'm
a doctor. There's again, I go back to the neurobiology
and I say, what we know from what's happened with
you is you've crossed a certain line. And then I'll
tell them, you know, you could stop drinking for one
year or ten years. I'll you know, and I'll say
certain things get rewired twelve to eighteen months, and the
urges and the craving and the connection between your mid
brain and your executive function cortex, those things sort of
get get buffered and decreased. But I said, the one
thing that doesn't change is like tolerance for alcohol. And example,
I had this woman at thirty five. I she quit drinking.
It did AA stayed sober. Husband passed away when she
was seventy, and she figured, well, what the hell I
can start? You know, if I start drinking now, I've
been sober thirty five years, you know, by the time
it'll take me till I'm eighty to get back where
I was. She was drinking like a leader and a
half in vodka a day until she got sober. Within
about a month, she was back to a leader and
a half a day. So some things changed that I'll
tell patients. The good news is your the intensity of
craving and your ability to return to you know, pretty functional,
happy life. It'll take twelve eighteen months. And that's my
other reason I really firmly support AA. I say this
is there's what we know now is AA or it
could be another structured program really supports this rewiring process. So,
but certain things change, Certain things, don't Your tolerance for
a substance and the returning to those behaviors that got
you in trouble. Uh, you know, there's there's no you know,
there's no cure for that. So so anyway, how.
Speaker 6: Do you deal with the preconceptions people have about twelve Step?
You know, I I think a lot of people that
talk to me say, uh, I don't want to do
that all that like, I don't want to do all.
Speaker 5: That God talk.
Speaker 6: And if you if you've met me, you know I'm
pretty agnostic. I don't I'm not all about the Jesus talk.
And I have found from my experience with twelve step
that it's really what you make of it and which
meetings you go to, and you know, the types of
there's there's going to be different types of meetings, and
I don't go to meetings where, well.
Speaker 5: You can you can.
Speaker 6: Take nobody is there, there's no bosses there, there's nobody's
in charge of it. Nobody's really telling you what to do.
It's really just like a group of people. In fact,
they say, you can think God can just stand for
a group of drunks, you know it's a group of people.
Well it's to me the spirituality is just in everybody's
higher purpose that we're all just trying to feel better.
Speaker 3: That's interesting.
Speaker 6: So how do you because I just feel like there's
a lot of stigma about the idea of going, you
know what I mean, and misconceptions about what it's like.
So do you tell people like, no, it's kind of fun,
get to hear some crazy stories.
Speaker 1: Well then oh yeah, it's a drunk a lot I
don't want to hear about other people. Yeah, I just
go back to there's so many different rationalizations for why
not to go, and I and I you know again,
I'm just I'm not the therapist, and there's there's other
ways of approaching it. But I say to them, you know,
I say to them, and I have more you know,
I have an hour, hour and a half or patients
have to tolerate my going on about this. But I
go back and I say, years ago when I started
doing this, they sent me to a program. They said
you got to be like a patient for a month.
And it's like okay, catch yeah. Yeah. Back in I
was doing you know, I was at a trauma center
doing emergency medicine, and I chose toxicology and drug overdose
is my area to teach. Who were starting a training
program at Loe Melinda. And this is decades ago. So
I found this this course work at u c l A,
which I thought was on drug overdose. And the first
the first lecture was this guy doing a lecture on addiction,
medicine and youth culture or something like that. He was
talking about music and moves in and I remember I
went up there for him and said, Wow, what's this
addiction medicine thing? Because you know when you're if you're
emergency medicine, surgery, real medicine, you know, it's like a psychiapy. Addiction,
you know, addiction, what's that? That's what causes you know.
So anyway, so long story short, this guy talked to me,
goes Hey, there's it's a whole new field of medicine.
There's a training program available. So I did this training
and residence thing where you didn't have to quit your
faculty job, your medical job, but you could do training.
And they sent me to our members Long Beach Memorial
for some initial training, and I got exposed to AA
and it was like, I said, what the heck? I
can't send patients to this. You know, you go in
there and they say keep it simple, stupid and white knuckling,
and you know, oh, it's.
Speaker 5: A lot of ridiculous slogans.
Speaker 1: Yeah, ridiculous slogan. So what I tell patients now? And
again we don't have enough to hear my whole spiel,
but I'll say, you know what, now, when I look back,
every one of those slogans, every one of those stupid
little things has a correlation in neurobiology. That's what I
tell what's white knuckling it? Well, white knuckling it is
your your olympics. Your mid brain sending messages to your
cortex to change what you're doing to get that substance back.
Your brain doesn't know alcohol from heroin, but it knows
you're not getting that substance, and it's sending those messages up. Well,
what is that first year of sobriety, buffering those messages,
getting rid of them, whether you take now techson for
craving or subox one for opious. But another part of it,
it's not just that that substance. It's not just that medication.
So I'll tell the patients. By going to meetings, you're
buffering those messages. And they talk about white knuckling it.
If you just sit and fight your mid brain, it's
you're just wasting time and you're creating more cortisole and
stress of your system. When you talk to your sponsor,
when you go to a meeting, you buffer those messages
and it starts to accelerate the rewiring process. So I say,
I don't care what you do in two years or
four years. You won't remember me, you won't remember the program.
But I'll say you, in calling your sponsor, going to
a meeting, you're sort of buffering and you're sort of
decreasing the intensity and the consequences of that part of
your brain. And you know, and each of these you know,
keep it simple. People tend to actual intellectualize, especially you know,
a few months into sobriety, they'll start to, oh, no,
now I.
Speaker 4: Know what to do.
Speaker 1: I'm okay, you know, every one of those things to
me has a neurobiologic quarrel it. And that's what I'll
tell patients as long as you're willing to listen. And
I'll say for that first twelve to eighteen months, when
your brain's rewiring, you better do something structured outside talking
to me once a month and talking with therapist. You're
your psychiatrist, calling a sponsor. And I'll say, God, God's
the group, God's your sponsor.
Speaker 4: Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: So that's that's my spiel. And I'm pretty you know,
I just had I had somebody in the last week
as Hindu, somebody else that was Buddhist. Fine, don't go
to you know, but I say, aa, God, God's group.
Speaker 4: It's not you know.
Speaker 1: Sometimes they'll do the Lord's prayer that pisses people off,
but I'll say, just look at the big picture, look
at the process. Quit looking at you know, there's always going.
Speaker 4: To be something to pickap.
Speaker 1: So I kind of like, I.
Speaker 6: Kind of like the Lord's prayer. I've grown to uh
not mind it. It's sort of like nice to do
a little thing together. You're all holding hands and you
were saying a prayer and it sort of like tunes
you into.
Speaker 5: A higher purpose.
Speaker 6: I don't think of it as like I don't think Jesus.
Speaker 3: Right in my mind, I could see that I'm.
Speaker 5: Not a Jesus girl. I'm a Jew. So I'm not
a Jew for Jesus. Tell me the.
Speaker 1: Detended who I was sitting and standing next.
Speaker 6: Yeah, media, can you talk to us about the correlation
between you're also treating chronic pain? So what's that like,
Like you're dealing with addiction, but you're also having to
address people who have like legitimate pain.
Speaker 1: Well, that's that's very interesting. So a lot of referrals,
especially now, it started out with Purdue Farm and you
know Hillbilly Harrow and the oxycon and that's you know,
going back twenty years to early two thousands, it was
like people were getting over medicated. They were saying, well,
oxyconton doesn't get you addicted if you have true pain,
stable blood levels. And then obviously the doctors, doctors I know,
like myself, I was in emergency medicine. I never prescribed
any thing, you know, like oxycon or oxycotone. But I
know that on the charts you'd see patients coming into
pain medicine visits and if they had the unhappy face,
you know, you.
Speaker 3: Had the the uh, how you feeling.
Speaker 1: The visual scale thing, yeah, and if it was an
unhappy face, and the people that did you know, accreditation
for hospitals, they'd look and if you weren't. I just
noticed that these doctors weren't increase in the opiates when
the pain was worse. They were getting ding. So there
was also, hey, you know there's a pain medicine available,
and your patient's still having pain, given more. And then
people were going out and switching the street heroin blah
blah blah, And so the pendulum has swung the other way.
So in organized medicine now they look at morphine milligram equivalents.
So in other words, like one milligram of hydro codonner
noric or vikings like one a morphine. A milligram of
purposet or oxycodone is like one and a half milligrams
of morphine. And they're saying it was like, okay, everybody
needs to be under two hundred milligram morphine equivalents than
one twenty than ninety. Now it's like in a lot
of systems forty or fifty, so people are they're not
paying attention to why they're having pain. It's just unless
you have cancer or you're on hospice or paylliad if
you you have to have your your opiate level drop.
So we're so we get a lot of referrals and
addiction medicine where it's like, uh, I don't I don't
know why this person is on so much opius they
need more and more, just get them off it. And
so uh, it's it's really amazing how many people are
not they're not having their real diagnosis addressed. And they
have other reasons for you know, like early refills what
we call aber and see so but anyway, so in
pain medicine today, there is a much greater need for
having addiction medicin and in psychiatry involved. And so where
it's going now is having like complex pain clinic where
you know you're you're really looking at why is somebody
on the opiates every day?
Speaker 4: Do they really need it? And we're learning more.
Speaker 1: About, for instance, opiate induced type algesius. So some people
when you give them opiates for pain it sends me,
it does something in the nervous system where they're more
sensitive to the pain and they need more and and
so there will again a lot of complexities to these patients.
So the so the answer is what we're doing at
our place, we're developing complex Pain clinic where we're we're saying,
you know, okay, you're on a lot of opiates. Is
this because the opiate is causing you to need more
opiates because your pain is getting worse. It's just it's
just really scrutinizing it and not for everybody that's on
over a certain amount of opiate. Oh, you have a
problem your physically physical dependence and addiction two different things.
So addiction is taking it on your own, taking it
for a mood change, and it affecting your ability to function.
Speaker 4: So it's really trying to be more.
Speaker 1: Trying to trying to be more delving into the into
the intricacies and details as it affects the patient. Because
patients there there what happened there are a lot of suicide,
A lot of people are having the europia. It's just
cut off or dropped too quickly. And these people weren't addicts,
they had real pain and the you know, the whole
person wasn't being addressed.
Speaker 6: So do you ever say to people like, god, stop
being such a fucking baby.
Speaker 1: Well, where you're.
Speaker 3: Fine, Bruce, You're you're the you're the the specialist. But
and you're saying that you're not a therapist. But speaking
of speaking, a therapist, if you're looking for a therapist, yeah,
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Speaker 5: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, so look at parking. Yeah, don't have to sit
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Speaker 5: Tell us how to get it.
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Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so, so can you talk to us? Are you
still up on like just regular medical shit?
Speaker 5: Noh, Like what's up with this bird flu?
Speaker 6: But also how are we dealing with all the anti
vax bs out there?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Do you have any opinions on that? Start with the
bird flu? First?
Speaker 3: What is going on with this bird flu?
Speaker 1: You know, it's a matter of there's a reservoir. You
got a virus, right, and it's it's it's like the influenza.
You know, every year you got to get a new
flu shot. Because the virus is in all the u
in all the pigs and asia. Suppose that's the first
place where it pops up. And when the virus jumps
from the animal population, to people and then from one
person to the next. So right, now, what they're saying is, oh,
the there's this virus is circulating in the this is
an influenza. This is a different virus. Right, It's in
the birds. It's going from birds to bird, and people
that work with birds can get maybe they can get
the virus from the bird and get sick, but can
they can the virus mutate to where it can jump from.
Speaker 4: That person to another human?
Speaker 1: Right, So there's animal to animal, animal to human, and
then human to human. And you want to why they
kill all the birds that have the virus. You want
to stop it from going to a person because once
the virus gets in the person, then it can mutate
and figure out how to get to another person.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: So in other words, if I get rabies, I can't
give it to somebody else.
Speaker 4: Right, But yeah, you see what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So the problem, the problem with the bird flu thing
is these these kind of virus is spread by you know,
coughing or sneezing. So you can imagine if they're virulent enough,
what if a iv you could give to somebody by
coughing or sneezing.
Speaker 4: Right, So, so right, now it's just.
Speaker 1: And then if you can isolate the virus soon enough
and develop a vaccine.
Speaker 4: It's it's really a race against you know, how quickly
this thing mutake.
Speaker 6: Except for how how much are we going to be
coming up with new vaccines.
Speaker 5: With r f K.
Speaker 1: He's got nothing to do with vaccines his they're not
they're not going to let him get anywhere near a vaccine.
Uh yeah, so you know, they're what they want to
look at. It's just I looked into that thing, you
know with him. Oh, he opposed he wanted to get
rid of this vaccine. Well, the vaccine he wanted he was.
There were like eight vaccines for polio, and one of
them he felt there was an adequate safety data on.
That's that's where what he It's not like, oh, you know,
he wants to get rid of all the all the
polio vaccines.
Speaker 6: So he wants to get rid of he wants to
outlaw antidepressants.
Speaker 5: Have you heard and ADHD meds?
Speaker 1: Right? Well, there are a lot.
Speaker 3: Does he have the power to No?
Speaker 1: No, But okay, there there's a guy you see I
in psychiatry, and here's his theory and he he's you know,
on the I think he's still I better watch, would
I say? But anyway, so he may be another medical school.
But anyway, there are people in psychiatry that feel like
somebody comes in and they're depressed. You put them on
a serotonin reuptake inhibitor. They stopped making serotonin as much
as they would they would have responded, they would have normalized,
and now they're dependent on that medication. You know. I
think there's no doubt there's a concern about the amount
of adderall is floating around out there, and thee and
diagnosing ADHDEA, and certainly getting rid of TV ads for medications.
We're so medical, we're so medication oriented, and if you
look at your food labels, you know what's in what's
in our food.
Speaker 4: I have family in Norway. I go there, you know,
yearlier every other year.
Speaker 1: And it's true there's there's a difference in how how
other countries approaching. So I don't think there's gonna I
think there's gonna be a huge difference. I think the
guy's gonna fight advertising on TV for medications. And also
there there is a big backlashing amongst physicians that don't
feel like people are getting prescribed at antidepressants too quickly
and an adderall for ADHD. It's, you know, sell the
smartphones and kids behavior. If you take the smartphone away,
then give them some adderroll. I don't know, you know
what I mean. So I don't know the I don't
know the politics. I'm not Republican or Democrat, but I
think you gotta be careful if you label this guy's
he's just there to get rid of vaccines.
Speaker 5: You know he's crazy though, right, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know him. I mean I know people that
know him, and I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't know how.
Speaker 1: I'd have to ask Scheryl Hines how crazy he is.
He's pretty Listen, here's what I wanted to.
Speaker 6: Here's help you out and tell you that he's out
of his fucking mind.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, but here's what i'd like.
Speaker 5: He is anti vaccine.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, I don't know. I mean, I'm anti COVID vaccine.
Speaker 6: So really tell us about that. I haven't had a
COVID vaccine since the since the early you know, what
are they still making them?
Speaker 1: It's granular? It's like WHOA, So my understanding. I think
if you're six months old or older, they're pushing the
vaccinate your kid, and it's like, uh, that COVID's changed.
I don't think every every human being should get COVID
vaccine now, did I think so?
Speaker 4: When it first came out?
Speaker 1: Yes? Has there been? Was there censorship about talking about
the possible problems with the VACK? You know, It's like,
does this it creates It's a different way of doing
a vaccine. It creates a spike protein. Can that protein
go and concentrate in a certain oregon? Can it create
you know, inflammation in the heart. I mean, I don't.
I think there was you know, doctors that we that
I know that spoke up. I were you know, death
threats and stuff. I know as a doctor, I was
afraid to tell my patients what I thought about masks
and about the vaccine because I'd either lose my job
or somebody would go on the internet and threaten me.
That's crazy. This is the United States.
Speaker 4: I'm a doctor.
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not telling people never wear a mask.
I'm just saying, here's the risk benefit. So if we're
doing a risk benefit on a vaccine, I could lose
my job or have people try and kill me. That's
that's insane.
Speaker 3: So I remember, Bruce, when when COVID first hit, it
was March. It was the end of March, and in
our household, uh, nobody really took it that seriously yet,
it was kind of like, what's going on? Whatever? The
school I think just shut down. And then you were like,
we had you on our on our speakerphone and we
had a family meeting. Do you remember that, and we
were like, Okay, let's talk to Bruce. Bruce's on the
front line. You were working at the hospitals, what's going on?
And then you were the one that's like, you, guys
got to really take this fucking thing seriously. You got
to start, you know, you got to start social distancing,
wearing masks, staying home like you were. You you're the
one that like told us to like start paying attention
to what's going on. Right, it was like days or
weeks after Now are you anti mask?
Speaker 6: Now?
Speaker 1: Well, I think that bad. That was when it first
came out, But I think within a couple of if
you talk to me a few months later, because I
think Drew and I were on the same pretty much
on the same page.
Speaker 3: Right, what do you mean as far as masks not working?
Speaker 1: Or well, you know, when it came out.
Speaker 3: Like you said, benefits and cons or whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it just depends when it first came out.
We didn't know how very liln it was. I think
I think people were misled and doctors were misled about
the morbidity and mortality and healthy age groups and being
able to talk about that. So, you know, and by
the end of the year, I was first in not
first in life, but I mean I got my vaccine
and I got my booster. But as time went on,
what I found there there was there was bias against
saying anything that might discourage use of that vaccine. And
I came to the point where it was like, well, wait,
wait a second, you know there may be yeah, there
are risks, and there was. Yeah. So when I talked
to you guys in March, I said, hey, I would
do everything they're suggesting, social distancing, wear masks until we
know more. And I was, but I think that three
months six months later, I was like, well, wait a second,
you know, the social distancing, the closing, it really doesn't
make sense. And then when I started saying that, I
mean I had people screaming at me. I was I
was telling you know, and people that were in position
of authority. I said, well, just wait a thing, and
they said, you have to understand when you like when
I got fitted for masks. We get fitted for masks,
like an emergency medicine. You go and there's different sizes,
have been ninety five masks and they do a test
where they test to see if anything's getting through, etc.
Speaker 4: So, anyway, but do.
Speaker 6: You think it seems to me that yes, there could
be overkill, Like maybe all the kids in school didn't
need to be wearing masks every day, especially the kind
of little fabric ones or whatever. But if you're let's
say you're a doctor and you work, let's say let's
just say you're a doctor, but let's say you're doing
COVID testing on people, right, are you saying, like people
who are dealing with people who potentially have COVID, like
every single day, you know, if I go into urgent
care and get a flu test and a COVID test,
are you saying the doctor shouldn't bother wearing a mask.
Speaker 4: I don't even know if they do anymore.
Speaker 5: They do, of course they do.
Speaker 1: But didn't you just.
Speaker 3: Say they have to have the right mask? So it
fits or whatever.
Speaker 1: And I don't think if you go to the er
everybody's wearing an A ninety five mask anymore, are they?
Speaker 6: But if you go in which I have many times
gone in to get a COVID test or a flu
test at my local urgent care, they're wearing They're not
coming up to you with the nasal swab not masked.
They're not like breathing in your face. They would have,
they would be getting sick all the time.
Speaker 1: But yeah, well I don't know. I mean I have
to check. So the point is those paper masks, which
what I see everybody wearing, Now, those are useless, right,
But here's the thing. If I have a cow or
somebody has a cough, everybody in the waiting room should
be wearing a mask because it's because they don't so
they don't cough and spew out.
Speaker 5: Right. Yeah, but you do agree people should wear a mask.
Speaker 4: If they're sif if you're in a good place.
Speaker 1: But if I go to you know, it's like I'm
still seeing people driving in their car by themselves, or
riding a bicycle wearing a mask.
Speaker 6: Oh no, I saw somebody outside literally outside at night
the other.
Speaker 5: Day wearing a mask. I was like, who who is
that for?
Speaker 1: Right? Or I went to the swat meet and Long
Beach yesterday. I go with my son every you know,
it's the only time I have seen my son saying.
But I mean, you know, nobody's wearing masks there you're outside.
Speaker 4: I mean it's insane.
Speaker 6: I'm just talking about wearing a mask in front of
somebody who might be coughing, who's potentially.
Speaker 1: It doesn't help you. No, no, no, no, because first
of all, that the virus wore a.
Speaker 6: Mask around my husband who had the flu all week,
and I did really didn't want to catch it, so
I wore a mask around him.
Speaker 4: It's not going to help you.
Speaker 1: So he doesn't have him wear the mask if he's
caught diad.
Speaker 5: I didn't.
Speaker 6: I refuse to drive in a car with him unless
we were both wearing a mask, just while he was
contagious from the flu.
Speaker 5: You don't think that's helpful.
Speaker 4: What kind of flu did he have?
Speaker 1: Real?
Speaker 4: Did he? A?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Oh, Influenza A is no joke. That scares me much.
COVID now does not worry me. Influenzae. I had influenza
A or B in nineteen ninety six, I almost die.
Speaker 6: We were literally just talking about this on our on
our first show this week. Yeah, so you agree that,
like I shouldn't be driving in a car with.
Speaker 1: Him with Well, the point is you're already exposed. And
it's it's not these things are they're by the time
that you think you can prevent it, you've already been exposed.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: That's the thing. So it's sort of like we're how
many angels in the head of a pin? Let me so,
I don't know, you know, it's like masks, those cotton
masks are the only thing they do is whoever sick
should wear it, so they're not ofting and spewing out
bacteria or viruses into the air. But you wearing it
in the car with him, I.
Speaker 5: Was wearing a K ninety five.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's not it's not you know, when we
do the fittings for those things, it's air that can
get in. You know what I'm saying, you're.
Speaker 6: Still reducing some right, I'm not trying. I'm literally not
trying to argue. I'm literally I'm interested if I if
that didn't help me at all, but I felt I
felt safe.
Speaker 3: It doesn't It really like reduce We've got to reduce
it a.
Speaker 6: Little because I didn't get it. I did not get
the flu.
Speaker 1: Well, you may have subclinically had it, and you've dwelt antibodies,
and that's some of those things. It's academic why you
didn't you didn't get it, or if we tested you,
now you have antibodies and you didn't clinically get sick.
Speaker 4: I don't know, but or you're whatever. I think it
makes it feel better.
Speaker 1: I think the misnomer is those those cotton masks, forget it,
the one the K ninety five then ninety five. The
virus is smaller, so it can still get through. Certainly
you're less likely. But when he was just getting sick
and you didn't realize the head influenza, hey, that's when
you're really susceptible. Also so, but I'm just saying the
social at some point, the social distancing and not and
and this thing about and not being able to talk
to patients about risk benefit, you know. I mean, I
have a cousin that dropped dead three months after I
mean totally healthy, not overweight, exercise all the time, and
he dropped dead of some weird hard thing. And it's
like I want, and he was, you know, all vaccinated,
so you just wonder if something you know related to
the vaccine. I don't know, but of course it was like,
well that was that seemed very unexpected And anyway, I.
Speaker 2: Have a question for but just to change topics, okay,
because I'm interested in it. So this is going back
to like addiction and depression and treating that. Do you
are you into it all? Treating depression? I know they
do it a lot with soldiers and PTSD, but with
psychedelics like psilocybin, ketamine, m D M A like, are
you what do you know about this world? And I
know a lot they do it a lot with soldiers
that have PTSD, But do you know about them doing
it with you know, lesser things like like depression or
anxiety or that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't do that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll start people and again I'm not I'm
not a therapeutic nihilist to the point where I don't
treat people. I start people on antidepressants. You know, as
indicated by my training in the medical literature and the
medical board, we use ketamine now routinely for depression.
Speaker 4: I don't do it I refer and I'm.
Speaker 2: Not asking you personally prescribing me like pilicidal people, but
do you think it works?
Speaker 1: Yeah? For PTSD. I mean they're doing stellic ganglion blocks
where your block.
Speaker 4: You know, there's a lot that's going on.
Speaker 1: It's just you know. And there's a great NYU on PBF.
I don't know if it's a nova or something on
PBS about the psilocybin program at n YU. I think
it's great. It's just if somebody wants to take psilocybin
the places that aren't doing it responsibly. If you have
a first degree relative with bipolar disorder schizophrenia, I would
shy away from you.
Speaker 4: You just have to be careful, you know.
Speaker 1: And and again the fringe elements in society, they always
want to say, uh, you know, it's the AMA doesn't
want to cancer cure released. I mean that kind of insanity.
It's you just got to be careful with these things.
So I think that that psychedelics.
Speaker 4: It's like what's Drew and I did a podcast.
Speaker 1: You have the woman that was microdosing LSD and she
had tried everything in medicine imaginable and she felt it
has saved her life. I think it probably did. I
don't think we really, you know, but psychedelics, what they're
doing in the brain is a very complicated thing, and
there are rit it's at risk benefiting. But MDMA, I
think they've done the study you know, in the VA
system right with veterans and made a huge difference. But
just to go out and get MDMA. And this is where,
you know, hopefully changes are made where these things become
more available so you know exactly what you're getting.
Speaker 3: Interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So let me just tell you this.
Speaker 1: The other thing that I tell my friends, I told
you this whole thing with fentanyl scares the hell out
of me in terms of what we're seeing now. And
I talk to people in emergency medicine and even you know,
I'm sure everybody knows somebody who's got a there's some
adolescent or young adult that's died of a ventyl overdose.
And the thing is, it's in Zana, it's in cocaine,
it's in Noorco Street and Oracle. I don't know how
many patients I've had that I referred to me that
are in their fifties, sixties, seventies and they popped for
fentanyl on a test and.
Speaker 4: It's like I didn't take Venteryl.
Speaker 1: Well, I went to Arizona and I left my purposet
at home and my you know, my cousin who's seventy,
gave me one of her percocets. It's it's it's in
every everything. Yeah, some of the pot. Now you know,
I talked to my son, goes, Dad, Man, what are
you listening to Fox News? It's not in pot. Well,
it's not uniformly pot. Some pot has if you talk
to people that some pot depends where you get it.
Speaker 4: I mean, not if you go to a reputable place.
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying it's it's the fentandel is being
just the danger is the kid goes. I tell my
kids if you go to a if you go to
your friend's house and you have a headache, don't take
a tile and all. I mean, I'm so paranoid about this.
And there's so many it's poisonings. There used to be
overdoses and addicts. These are poisonings.
Speaker 6: Why are people trying to are they are they trying
to poison people?
Speaker 5: Because what is what's.
Speaker 3: The benefit of having it?
Speaker 5: And everything? Yeah? Why are they put it?
Speaker 6: Why would it what's in it for somebody putting fentanyl
in somebody's annex.
Speaker 1: Uh So you're getting into questions of the yeah, of course,
well you know, and again I said this and a
I said, this is a community meeting where they asked
me to come and help out talking about treating opiate
addiction in the homeless population. I started out with I said, well,
there's fentanyl and everything. Oh doctor. They ended up saying, well,
maybe you don't know about your white privilege. It was like,
how do we get from me talking to you about
helping the homeless population with the fentanyl thing? When I said,
there's an epidemic of it, it's coming across the border
in tons the Fox News and I'm like Fox News,
you know news I listened to see.
Speaker 4: I listen to everything.
Speaker 1: Anyway. The point is, the concern is telling you for
anybody that has a kid that that's from thirteen to however,
you know, we've got adolescents that are thirty five le
in our home now, God knows it's they just don't.
They just can't be aware enough of this because it's
the fentanyl.
Speaker 4: It's so scary. It's like when I was in the er.
Speaker 1: You give microgram doses like you're setting somebody's broken arm.
You get you know, I mean they do it in
surgery in the operating room.
Speaker 4: But in the ear.
Speaker 1: If we're going to give somebody a little bit of
fentanyl set set of fracture or whatever, you've got them
on a cardiac monitor, you have them on an oxygen
sensing device.
Speaker 4: I mean, you got to nurse there with you.
Speaker 1: You've got to take a you have to be certified
to give a little bit. And this stuff is out there.
It's crazy, it's so scary. And then kreatum yeh, there's
there's just stuff you could buy over the counter. Now
that's just Gary Cretim. You're familiar with that.
Speaker 5: I've heard of it. I've heard of it.
Speaker 3: But what is that?
Speaker 1: K R A t O M. If it's got an internet,
it's living free in the head of the internet.
Speaker 3: So it's a it's a street drug you buy on
the internet or something well.
Speaker 1: Creative, Okay, So it's a plant, it's it's a tee
of powder. It's related to the coffee plant. It comes
from Southeast Asia. But it's just like taking tramadol and
you can buy it in any headshop. Gas stations, So
it goes to the opiate receptor just like an opiate.
And it also prevents nourop aeffernin serotonin reuptakes, so like
Effects or or pristique or or deloxiteam, these antidepressants that
arepinefforti serotonin reuptake inhibitors, it does that. And it's an
opiate agon stimulator. So this stuff is totally legal.
Speaker 5: You're giving me ideas here, I'm like, no, no.
Speaker 1: But the point is, the reason it's still legal is
because there is a lobby and it's you know, it's
sort of the the herbal lobby so to speak, that
prevents the DEA from scheduling and it's like, well that
would be you know, that would be racist or whatever.
Speaker 4: I don't know, but it's.
Speaker 1: Illegal in the city of San Diego certain states, but
it's you can. They have a certain they call it
oh I perks, and they have certain a certain derivative
of this stuff they called seven hydroxy mitchro jinan, which
is the active opiate part of it that you can get.
I mean, I had two people last week, and then
there's he and neptine.
Speaker 4: They call it gas station heroin.
Speaker 1: UH.
Speaker 4: And this stuff.
Speaker 1: It's it's a weird chemical that's used in Europe as
an ani depressant, but at higher doses it's just like
an opiate. And you can buy that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I can't, not for nothing.
Speaker 6: But if you took a little bit of adderall, it
could help.
Speaker 3: You.
Speaker 5: See why he.
Speaker 3: Has got the nickname of doctor spass me.
Speaker 1: They prescribed me, yeah, thirty years ago. To prescribe me
at all. It was it was not a good thing
for me. So they give it in tiny doses, right, No,
just because I'm better off this way. I remember the
first time I was working, the first time I got adderall,
I sat in the ear and I was like, oh
my god, what's the this over here? This over here?
Speaker 4: It was. It was structuring.
Speaker 1: But we don't like I like.
Speaker 4: I like this the way I'm better.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm really because I work with a lot of
psychiatrists and addiction medicine and they were like, dude, something
you got to get on something.
Speaker 4: Stratira gave me headaches. I didn't like that and.
Speaker 1: I ended up. You know, obviously I don't take anything.
But sometimes people go, well, what do you want, what
are you taking? I go, yeah, I don't take anything,
and then they.
Speaker 3: Go out to your Well, Bruce, you're you're very fascinating
to talk to.
Speaker 5: Thank you so.
Speaker 3: Much, and you're you're very lovable and we've learned a lot.
Speaker 5: Does he have a Patreon? I know?
Speaker 3: Do you have?
Speaker 5: Do you have a Patreon?
Speaker 6: Told you yesterday that's a private you know, something that
you could talk about that would get a lot of
people to sign up to hear your.
Speaker 3: Extra fifteen to twenty minutes of uh.
Speaker 5: Content that you wouldn't say on the regular show.
Speaker 3: You got any stories from like rock bands back in
the day?
Speaker 1: No, no, all right, Oh, I spent I spent ten
days with Pink Floyd and.
Speaker 4: I got in a lot of trouble.
Speaker 6: That would be an interesting Oh you want to do
that for Patreon?
Speaker 4: What do you Oh?
Speaker 1: I would do it with you guys.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Just is it like a story you can fill fifteen
twenty minutes?
Speaker 1: Oh sure?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Okay, all right, stay put stay put okay, hold on,
put them on, put them on pause.
Speaker 4: I need to use the restroom.
Speaker 3: Oh ahead, gosh, but Bruce, do you want us to
plug anything or no?
Speaker 1: No, I don't have anything.
Speaker 3: Okay, go to the restroom.
Speaker 5: All right, Hey, before we leave you. Guys.
Speaker 6: We have a couple more a couple more shout outs.
We got Lorie Bishop's son's Better Test Prep. It's his
act guide. Okay, you're gonna want to go to bit
dot l y slash Better test Prep or on Instagram
better dot test dot Prep. Yeah, he's gonna help you
get like a huge high superscore and that shit is
coming up in the next few months, so this is
a good time to get on that. Also, if you
go to medium dot com, you can read my friend's
amazing pieces on there. If you go to at Unbecoming Stories,
and I promise you it is like good reading Unbecoming Stories, at.
Speaker 5: Least go follow her. I'll tell you it's her.
Speaker 6: Also, if you're looking for a new podcast, The Family Skeptical,
especially after all our talk about God and stuff. This
is for raising kids without religion. Any stripe of non
believer is welcome to listen to their show, and it's
only one episode every three weeks. Also, if you want
to grab some yemmy food and you're in the Palm
Springs or Palm Desert.
Speaker 5: Area, why not go to do yourself a favor, say we.
Speaker 6: Sent you even though I've been hearing that people are
getting weird looks, little dog tilted. What but insist? Oh no,
I'm freaking telling you.
Speaker 5: F C o L check it out. Ask Kelly, ask
for Kelly.
Speaker 1: Do that.
Speaker 6: And every week go to go google Queer Youth Resource.
Speaker 5: Okay, that's our that's our friend.
Speaker 6: And Laura Wingfield's friend Oscar's charity that he works for,
Queer Youth Resource.
Speaker 5: They need money, they can use help.
Speaker 6: They have been having some of their resources cut off
because there's a war against the LGBT right now.
Speaker 5: So go help them out.
Speaker 6: And as always, Adam Lerner, Adam's got a car dot com.
He's gonna help you, lease, buy by used car, whatever
you need, he's going to help you. And last but
not least, The Get Up Show. That's a podcast for kids.
They need, they need, that's right, don't ignore the kids.
Give them the Get Up Show. The show for kids
that gets them from snooze to shoes.
Speaker 5: It's a lot of fun.
Speaker 6: They there's jokes, learning music, all the things that kids
might enjoy. All right, Thanks everybody, Thanks Cal and thank
you doctor Bruce.
Speaker 3: Thank you doctor Bruce.
Speaker 5: You're a parent.
Speaker 4: Now nobody can get myself any trouble up.
Speaker 2: It's let