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You could get 22 00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:54.719 lucky anywhere playing at lucky landslots dot com play for 23 00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:56.799 free right now? Are you feeling lucky? 24 00:00:56.880 --> 00:00:58.200 No, we're just necessary boy, Where we're gona be? 25 00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:07.840 My long eighteen plus terms and conditions of plusy websay him. 26 00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:11.319 You are now listening to True Murder The most Shocking 27 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:14.439 Killers in true crime history and the authors that have 28 00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:21.799 written about him. Gasey Bundy Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK. Every 29 00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:25.519 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 30 00:01:25.599 --> 00:01:29.799 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 31 00:01:29.799 --> 00:01:34.480 host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 32 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:47.000 Good Evening. Cold Country Killing, a culture, a union, and 33 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:50.159 the murders that changed at all revolves around the cold 34 00:01:50.200 --> 00:01:54.519 blooded nineteen sixty nine assassination of United mind Workers of 35 00:01:54.560 --> 00:01:58.840 America reform candidate Jock Lablonski and the murder of his 36 00:01:58.920 --> 00:02:03.319 wife and daughter and their Pennsylvania farmhouse. But driving the 37 00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:07.040 story are the extraordinary efforts of a tenacious special prosecutor 38 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:10.960 and his army and investigators to bring the gunmen, the 39 00:02:11.080 --> 00:02:14.520 union boss who ordered the murders, and his henchmen who 40 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:18.439 saw them carried out to justice. Initially, three bumbling small 41 00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:22.280 time criminals dubbed the Hillbilly Hitman, were arrested and charged, 42 00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:25.280 but what they were the tip of the iceberg, as 43 00:02:25.319 --> 00:02:29.240 the murders were directed by then United Mine Workers' Association 44 00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:33.960 president tough Tony Boyle as revenge for Yablonski running against 45 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:37.800 him in the bitterly contested nineteen sixty eight Union election 46 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:42.080 and to prevent his corruption from being exposed. Up against 47 00:02:42.120 --> 00:02:46.400 the tight lip culture of Appalachia coal Country, Legendary Philadelphia 48 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:51.639 homicide prosecutor Richard A. Sprague and his investigators spent nearly 49 00:02:51.759 --> 00:02:54.520 nine years doggedly working their way up the ladder of 50 00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:58.680 those responsible to the final showdown with Boyle. Written by 51 00:02:58.759 --> 00:03:02.560 New York Times bestselling author's former New York County Assistant 52 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:06.919 District Attorney, Robert K. Tannenbaum, a lifelong friend of Spragg's, 53 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:10.680 and Steve Jackson, Cole Country Killing is a tour de 54 00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:13.840 force for those who love justice. The book that we're 55 00:03:13.879 --> 00:03:18.759 featuring this evening is Cole Country Killing, a culture, a union, 56 00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:21.400 and the murders that changed it. It all with my 57 00:03:21.520 --> 00:03:26.000 special guest journalist, author, and publisher Steve Jackson. Welcome back 58 00:03:26.039 --> 00:03:28.439 to the program. Thank you very much for this interview. 59 00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:29.199 Steve Jackson. 60 00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:32.159 Well, thank you, Dan. It's always a good, a great 61 00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:33.479 pleasure to be on your show. 62 00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:36.759 It's always a pleasure to have you, Steve. Let's get 63 00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:41.280 right to what Robert Tannenbaum, your co author, had to 64 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:44.680 say about really what this book is about. Can you 65 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:46.879 tell us a little bit about what this book is 66 00:03:46.919 --> 00:03:47.960 really all about. 67 00:03:48.159 --> 00:03:53.000 Well, this book in many ways is tribute to Bob Tannenbaum. 68 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:56.800 New dis Bray worked with him, considered him a mentor. 69 00:03:57.240 --> 00:04:02.800 Dick Sprague was, as you noted, gendary prosecuting in Pennsylvania, 70 00:04:02.919 --> 00:04:07.360 Philadelphia in particular, went on to work federal cases and 71 00:04:07.400 --> 00:04:09.439 that sort of thing. But so in a way, it's 72 00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:13.240 a tribute to that, and it's a tribute to tenacity 73 00:04:13.479 --> 00:04:17.399 and the fight for justice no matter what, no matter 74 00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:22.000 how long it took. This case basically took good eight years, 75 00:04:22.040 --> 00:04:25.839 I believe, maybe longer to resolve itself in the end, 76 00:04:25.959 --> 00:04:30.240 as mister Sprague worked his way up from the actual 77 00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:33.079 killers all the way up to the top of the 78 00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:38.360 United Mindworkers Association President tough Tony Boyle, which at the 79 00:04:38.439 --> 00:04:41.879 time was the most powerful union in the nation and 80 00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:45.279 the world. And so that was no mean feat with 81 00:04:45.879 --> 00:04:48.519 kind of a forgotten story these days and the United 82 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:52.040 Mine Workers does not have the power they used to have. 83 00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:55.839 But at that time, I was taken on the presidency 84 00:04:55.959 --> 00:05:01.120 in some ways, and certainly an autocrat who had absolutely 85 00:05:01.639 --> 00:05:05.959 absolute power over mind Workers and is the people who 86 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:09.680 work for him and millions and millions of dollars at 87 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:12.000 his call to to fight this. 88 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:15.839 Now, let's talk about December eighteenth, nineteen sixty nine. In 89 00:05:15.879 --> 00:05:20.040 a chapter you called the Visitors, and you introduced Joseph Yoblonski, 90 00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:22.399 fifty nine year old. Would you write about two men 91 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:25.639 pull up the Yoblonski's two hundred year old farmhouse in 92 00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:30.319 a maroon sixty five Chevy Caprice tell us about this altercation? 93 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:33.680 Well, this was the intro to the book, and this 94 00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:36.959 is one of the tough Tony boyle. Eventually, as we 95 00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:39.800 find out in the book, we ordered the hit on 96 00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:45.519 his rival, JOCKI Leblonski, and that went from his immediate 97 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:49.439 underlings to some other immediate underlings, to some others, and 98 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:53.680 eventually got down to these sort of small time criminals 99 00:05:53.759 --> 00:05:57.879 who were related to one of these union officials who 100 00:05:57.959 --> 00:06:01.399 agreed to commit these murders on behalf of some guy 101 00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:04.639 named Tony. They didn't really know who. If it wasn't 102 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:08.959 such a tragedy, if what had not occurred occurred, the 103 00:06:09.079 --> 00:06:12.839 murder of three innocent people, it's almost a comedy. It's 104 00:06:13.319 --> 00:06:16.920 very Fargo like. As far as these these men who 105 00:06:16.920 --> 00:06:20.560 were later dubbed the Hillbilly hitman. And this is two 106 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:23.360 of them showed up at the front door and were 107 00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:28.439 landing on shooting Yablonsky at his home farm home in Pennsylvania, 108 00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:31.000 and they sort of got around to, well, you do it, 109 00:06:31.079 --> 00:06:33.680 you do it, you do it, and sort of made 110 00:06:33.759 --> 00:06:36.720 up an excuse that they are mine workers looking for 111 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:41.000 some work and this sort of thing, and eventually just 112 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:44.519 lost their nerve and walked away, which in some ways 113 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:47.480 is sort of okay. So what happens from this, and 114 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:52.920 what happens is that Yablonski and one of his friends 115 00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:56.120 and one of his sons, I'm actually going to town 116 00:06:56.560 --> 00:06:59.879 to look for this part of these guys, because you 117 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:04.079 Blonsky had a feeling that these men were there to 118 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:07.759 kill him. And they got a license plate number and 119 00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:09.920 wrote it down with a pad and left it on 120 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:14.240 a desk, which becomes very important to this investigation later. 121 00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:18.920 So the idea that Ybonski recognized that these people were 122 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:21.800 there for nefarious reasons. In fact, he said to his son, 123 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:23.439 he thought, and he said to a friend, and he 124 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:25.720 thought that these two people were there to kill him. 125 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:30.240 So what happens afterwards in terms of the Sun warning 126 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:33.759 him and other people warning him that his life would 127 00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:34.399 be in danger. 128 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:38.199 Well, we don't recognize it at this time, but United 129 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:42.560 Mineworkers Association and the mine Workers, these guys come out 130 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:46.759 of the nineteen twenties and thirties and a very bloody 131 00:07:46.879 --> 00:07:49.079 time as far as the union. They were fighting the 132 00:07:49.160 --> 00:07:52.680 Feds and fighting mine workers and the gun thugs, and 133 00:07:53.079 --> 00:07:57.199 they were used to violence. And including Jock Leblonsky, he'd 134 00:07:57.240 --> 00:08:00.160 been on the front lines and busts and heads as 135 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:04.199 much as Tony Boyle was, so the idea of violence 136 00:08:04.360 --> 00:08:08.319 was not known. And in fact, Jock, during his failed 137 00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:12.399 attempt at resting the presidency from Tony Boyle, had been 138 00:08:12.439 --> 00:08:15.720 assaulted and nearly killed. But he, you know, he's a 139 00:08:15.759 --> 00:08:18.399 tough guy, and he sort of blew a lot of 140 00:08:18.439 --> 00:08:21.680 it off for longest time, and then finally with this 141 00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:25.360 sort of visit, he started to take it seriously. We 142 00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:28.800 put some lights outside of his home, slept with a 143 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:32.519 shot done next to him in his room, and he 144 00:08:32.600 --> 00:08:35.600 was starting to take it seriously that this could really happen. 145 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:38.879 But who expects to be assassinated in their home? 146 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:41.480 Going back just a bit, you say the election was 147 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:44.759 held December ninth, nineteen sixty nine, and Boyle emerged as 148 00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:47.720 as a victor by a two to one margin. But 149 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:52.120 with the victory came a deluge of allegations of fraud, tampering, intimidation, 150 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:57.399 and ballock box stuffing, and Blonsky demanded that the US 151 00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:01.960 Department of Labor Secretary George Saltz look into the allegations. 152 00:09:02.120 --> 00:09:06.080 But you write that the Labor Department, which politically didn't 153 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:08.519 want to get involved in union business, said that they 154 00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:12.960 Yvlansky first had to exhaust his administrative remedies by taking 155 00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:16.159 his grievances to the union hierarchy. You say, a classic 156 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:19.159 case of the fox guarding the henhouse. So you say 157 00:09:19.159 --> 00:09:22.679 that Yoblonski doesn't give up though, even though no one 158 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:25.600 seems to be wanting to help him investigate Boyle and 159 00:09:25.679 --> 00:09:26.120 the union. 160 00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:29.440 Right, and Yublonsky has some allies at this time, a 161 00:09:29.559 --> 00:09:35.600 very tough Washington, DC based lawyer Joe Rausch, also Ralph Nader, 162 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:38.600 who we all probably remember at least people in courage 163 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:44.679 as an advocate for the underdog of these sorts of things. 164 00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:49.679 And yeah he was. There's no denying that the election 165 00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:55.440 was fraudulent and corrupt, and all these things happened and 166 00:09:55.759 --> 00:09:58.720 Boyle did everything he could to make sure he won, 167 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:02.039 and actually, you know, going to all that stuff, he 168 00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:05.000 did win, but Yablonski wasn't giving it up, and he 169 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:08.879 was suing and they brought a number of different lawsuits 170 00:10:08.879 --> 00:10:11.440 and we're trying to force the Department of Labor, which 171 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:16.759 up until this point had looked away politically. The United 172 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:20.960 Mineworkers Association at this time they're a real power broker. 173 00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:25.279 The presidents would go to them for advice, and they 174 00:10:25.320 --> 00:10:28.960 had all sorts of politicians and judges on their payroll, 175 00:10:29.279 --> 00:10:32.279 and so it was tough to get anything going. But 176 00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:35.080 he wouldn't give up. He's a tough guy and he 177 00:10:35.159 --> 00:10:38.720 had some tough allies with him. And at this time 178 00:10:38.840 --> 00:10:43.320 mineworkers were finally getting tired of the autocratic nature United 179 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:47.840 Mineworkers' Association, which had started back with legendary John Lewis 180 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:51.639 and had gotten even more corrupt with Tony Boyle. And 181 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:56.639 the danger for Boyle was he'd won the election, and 182 00:10:56.759 --> 00:10:59.480 you know, there could have been something with having to 183 00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:01.840 redo the election, and who knows from there. But what 184 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:04.559 he was really afraid of was that there was a 185 00:11:04.639 --> 00:11:07.679 very large slush fund. A lot of money was being 186 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:12.320 siphoned from the retirement funds and pension funds and medical 187 00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:15.519 funds for the mine workers. And he is afraid that 188 00:11:15.559 --> 00:11:18.480 if the FEDS really did start looking into this, this 189 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:19.559 would all come out. 190 00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:22.000 You're right, it's quite a bit of the book, but 191 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:24.639 we can talk about it just a bit. Is the 192 00:11:24.679 --> 00:11:28.519 background of these people, where these workers came from, and 193 00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:31.960 their history, to try to explain the nature and the 194 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:35.120 culture of this coal mining industry. 195 00:11:34.840 --> 00:11:38.159 Right, and it went back several hundred years from here. 196 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:43.320 It's the Appalachians early on anyway, were mostly settled by 197 00:11:44.200 --> 00:11:48.120 other than the Native Americans who were there first. Obviously, 198 00:11:48.639 --> 00:11:51.799 was settled by Scott's Irish who came over from the 199 00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:55.799 Ulster plantation. And the Scott's Irish we're used to fighting, 200 00:11:56.080 --> 00:11:58.519 you know, they've been fighting the English. They've been fighting 201 00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:02.799 the Irish. They had been They had a very low 202 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:07.120 opinion of governments, in a very low opinion of law 203 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:10.679 enforcement because the government and the law enforcement had never 204 00:12:10.720 --> 00:12:14.279 been on their side. So they came to America or 205 00:12:14.360 --> 00:12:18.960 the colonies at that time, for freedom and freedom from 206 00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:22.399 government and freedom from a law enforcement that did not 207 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:25.480 enforce the law when it came to them. And they 208 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:29.639 made their way west where there weren't so many restrictions 209 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:33.440 and they could get away from society that looked down 210 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:35.759 on them, and made their way up into the hills 211 00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:39.759 and the vales and mountains of Appalachia from New York 212 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:44.080 down to the Carolinas and west to Ohio. And a 213 00:12:44.200 --> 00:12:50.519 very independent, very insular, very church like religious group of 214 00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:53.840 people who believed in the loyalty to each other and 215 00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:56.480 first of all and to the people. They gave a 216 00:12:56.600 --> 00:13:02.440 loyalty to their leaders, very honest, believed in right and 217 00:13:02.519 --> 00:13:05.840 wrong and what happens to you between heaven and hell, 218 00:13:06.279 --> 00:13:09.759 and to tell the truth, the Americans probably the Americans 219 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:13.320 would have probably lost the Revolutionary War without them, because 220 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:18.840 the English made the mistake of challenging them and learned 221 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:21.120 a hard lesson in New Yorktown. All that sort of 222 00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:25.480 stuff doesn't happen without the Scots Irish in Atalacia coming 223 00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:28.919 out of the mountains. And then later on Cole gets 224 00:13:28.919 --> 00:13:33.759 discovered in Appellation. Suddenly these lands that had been mostly 225 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:37.799 farms and some timber and livestock and that sort of 226 00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:41.559 thing become valuable to other people, and they use the 227 00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:45.039 Scots Irish who are living there as their labor force 228 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:48.000 and bring in other people. But the Scots Irish are 229 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:52.879 so insular and so together as a people that even 230 00:13:52.919 --> 00:13:56.720 these people that were brought in soon adapted and adopted 231 00:13:56.759 --> 00:14:01.559 their way of looking at life. And so we get 232 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:04.440 to the cold Wars of the nineteen thirties and the 233 00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:08.519 forties when the Union was trying to establish rights for 234 00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:13.000 workers and some health things and pensions and that sort 235 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:16.480 of effort. And as I said before, these were bloody. 236 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:20.720 These were not sitting down and talking about what we 237 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:25.360 should and shouldn't do. These were full fledged shooting wars 238 00:14:25.399 --> 00:14:29.919 between the FEDS and the law enforcement and mind owners 239 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:33.240 and their hired thugs on one side and the Union 240 00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:38.240 on the other. So the Union members developed a very 241 00:14:38.559 --> 00:14:42.120 very strong loyalty towards the Union. It was the only 242 00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:45.000 thing that spoke up for him, is the only entity 243 00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:49.440 that they could rely on to reliably stand between them 244 00:14:49.559 --> 00:14:54.759 and these other forces. So that makes its way into 245 00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:58.919 this case, both at the beginning with not talking and 246 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:01.559 not in parts painting in the cover up to in 247 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:05.039 the end basically what breaks the case for Sprague. 248 00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:09.240 You talk about the Union's main emphasis was on combating 249 00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:14.639 the exploitation of mind workers and changing working conditions for 250 00:15:14.679 --> 00:15:17.480 the better. And the main tactic was to call a strike, 251 00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:22.360 shut down production and until demands were met, and this 252 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:26.600 cost operators money and control. How did the mine operators 253 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:30.440 respond and tell us a little bit about exploitation in 254 00:15:30.519 --> 00:15:32.720 terms of company towns. 255 00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:35.559 The mine owners are responded by hiring what were known 256 00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:39.679 as gun thugs at the time, which included the Pinkerton Agency, 257 00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:45.200 detective Agency, and some others who were basically hired, you know, 258 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:50.840 in some cases actually murder and intimidate and the mineworkers. 259 00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:55.679 And these company towns they are basically set up by 260 00:15:55.879 --> 00:15:58.600 the owners where the owners owned the property, they owned 261 00:15:58.600 --> 00:16:01.720 the homes, they owned the growthrough stores, they owned the schools. 262 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:07.039 And in fact, sometimes mineworkers didn't actually receive pay. They 263 00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:11.000 received shits which they could use to buy groceries at 264 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:14.919 the grocery store, but were worthless anywhere else. But she 265 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:19.000 kept them in that type of indentured servitude. And so, 266 00:16:19.639 --> 00:16:22.399 you know, the mine owners, it took a lot for 267 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:25.480 mineworkers and the union to get in here and say 268 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:28.120 there could be a better way now. At some point 269 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:31.720 there the union sort of lost its way as far 270 00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:36.879 as the black lung remained a problem right into Tony 271 00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:40.159 Boyle's era, and they weren't dealing with it, which is 272 00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:44.519 one of the reforms that joh Leblonski was trying to correct. 273 00:16:44.879 --> 00:16:50.120 Mine workers pay was remained down in part because of 274 00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:53.360 the threat of oil and gas starting to become a 275 00:16:53.559 --> 00:16:56.960 new thing as far as energy in the United States, 276 00:16:57.000 --> 00:17:02.200 which the mine workers hierarchy used to keep people online 277 00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:05.200 is that if you don't pay attention to US oil 278 00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:07.440 and gas and people like that are going to come 279 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:10.880 in and you'll be out of jobs. And because mine 280 00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:15.839 workers basically had very little education and had very little 281 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:19.400 choice or opportunity to do anything except for mine, Cole 282 00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:22.039 had to pay attention or what were they going to 283 00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:23.119 have nothing? 284 00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:28.839 Basically, he talked about legendary Lewis and he is retiring 285 00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:32.559 after forty years and names a successor. Why was Leblonski 286 00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:35.200 not picked and why was Boyle picked? 287 00:17:35.319 --> 00:17:38.720 Rather hard to tell, you know, in some cases you 288 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:43.720 hear that John Lewis liked Yablonski and kind of talked 289 00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:48.240 to him about he would be this successor. He actually 290 00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:52.799 picked another man as Sullivan. I believe Kennedy Boyle was 291 00:17:53.359 --> 00:17:58.319 his vice president and some of that, I think is 292 00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:03.720 the loyalty. I think Lewis wanted that absolute loyalty. I 293 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:07.279 think Yablonsky at this point and time, is starting to 294 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:13.119 have question that whether the leadership of the Union was 295 00:18:13.160 --> 00:18:16.599 doing the right thing. And you know, Tony Boyle was 296 00:18:16.599 --> 00:18:19.880 able to talk himself into that position of power so 297 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:25.359 that when the appointed successor grew ill and then eventually died, 298 00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:29.920 Boyle had the reigns of power, could now fix the 299 00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:34.480 balloting for the presidency and essentially got himself elected. 300 00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:40.160 You talk about Joseph Leblonski working with Boyle despite having 301 00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:44.319 major differences with him, but also his background was that 302 00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:46.480 he had joined his father in the Minds and his 303 00:18:46.519 --> 00:18:51.039 father had died in a mining accident, so changing Leblonski's 304 00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:53.000 attitude somewhat in his career. 305 00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:57.240 Yeah, Yablonsky is an interesting character in that he is 306 00:18:57.400 --> 00:19:00.119 not in a sense of all this the corruption and 307 00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:05.599 this power being used for the sake of power within 308 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:08.359 the Union. He became an official and he went along 309 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:12.039 with a lot of Lewis first and then Boyle later. 310 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:14.799 He believed very much in the Union and some of 311 00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:17.200 that does go back to he started as a child 312 00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:20.480 in the Union in their minds. And then his dad 313 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:24.279 was killed in a mining accident, so and then he 314 00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:27.160 of course was on the front lines in these battles 315 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:30.599 in the nineteen thirties and into the forties, and so 316 00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:33.880 he had a lot of loyalty to the Union and 317 00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:36.559 went along with things. And he later admitted that he 318 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:39.480 went along with some of the things that were wrong 319 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.599 and the idea that they may be wrong, but the 320 00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:45.640 Union was better than what they had before, and it 321 00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:48.759 was better than anything else around now. I think once 322 00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:51.599 Boyle was in there and still nothing was being done 323 00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:57.400 about black lung and better pensions and this sort of thing, 324 00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:01.119 he had a change of heart. Maybe his conscience started 325 00:20:01.160 --> 00:20:04.400 taking over for him, and he was starting to listen 326 00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:08.319 to people like Ralph Nader and Joe Rausch and about, 327 00:20:08.599 --> 00:20:11.720 you know, do the right thing here. And eventually he 328 00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:14.359 decided that that's what he would do, is that he 329 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:18.759 would try to get the presidency, which had never been 330 00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:23.839 an open, truly democratic vote, and it made changes and 331 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:25.000 start to make changes. 332 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:28.400 You say that part of the what he was influenced by. 333 00:20:28.519 --> 00:20:33.640 Leblonsky was November twenty, nineteen sixty eight November twentieth in Farmington, 334 00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:37.279 West Virginia. You writed a dragon awoke beneath the mountain, 335 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:42.640 an immense explosion in Mountaineer Coole Company number nine, mind, 336 00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:47.440 very powerful explosion. And then in May twenty ninth, nineteen 337 00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:52.000 sixty nine, Jock Levlonsky announced he was challenging William tough 338 00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:57.119 Tony Boyle for the American Miners Workers Association presidency. 339 00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:02.079 Right, and you know, there's there's indications in the record 340 00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:06.640 that it was that explosion that final whole Mining has 341 00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:11.480 been the most dangerous occupation in the Americas practically since 342 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:17.640 it started. The number of explosions and asphyxiations and fires, 343 00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:21.839 and it's a very dangerous business. And for a long 344 00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:25.599 time with the federal inspectors who would come in and 345 00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:27.359 look at the mind and say you need to do this, 346 00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:30.000 or that he pulled us down, and do better with 347 00:21:30.119 --> 00:21:33.799 your fire suppression, things like that, but they had very 348 00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:37.240 little or did very little to enforce these things. Then 349 00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:41.319 the owners would basically say yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll do it, 350 00:21:41.400 --> 00:21:44.079 and we'll do better and that sort of thing. And 351 00:21:44.119 --> 00:21:47.880 then unfortunately, starting at the end of John Lewis and 352 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:53.440 then into Boyle's era, is that they didn't press the owners. 353 00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:56.680 They didn't demand that these things be done because they're 354 00:21:56.680 --> 00:22:00.119 worried that the owners would say, okay, well we'll do this, 355 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.240 but that means we got to cut a hundred jobs 356 00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:07.160 or that sort of thing. So and they sacrificed lives 357 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:14.200 for jobs. And finally, this one last tragedy that killed 358 00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:17.960 bet one hundred and seventy five men. Numbers escaped him 359 00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:21.000 me as well right now. But it was a horrible 360 00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:25.960 tragedy on a small town. And basically Tony Boyle came 361 00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:28.160 in there and said, well, we believe the owners did 362 00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:31.119 everything they could to make sure this didn't happen, and 363 00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:33.400 I'm so sorry, and then he left him. And I 364 00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:37.400 think that was what really finally pushed Yablonski over the edge, 365 00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:41.240 is that whatever he had gone with up to this point, 366 00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:45.480 and he says this when he announces his candidacy, is 367 00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:48.119 that he had looked the other way and that it 368 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:50.240 had been wrong and it was time to write this 369 00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:52.400 wrong and he was going to run for presidency. 370 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:54.599 Let's this this as an opportunity to stop for a 371 00:22:54.599 --> 00:22:55.720 second for these messages. 372 00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:57.680 Hey guysaid is a Ryan. 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Sign up now at chumbacasino dot com. 382 00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:25.279 No, we're just necessary da leapod where everybody lost in 383 00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:26.400 terms conditions eighteen plus. 384 00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:31.519 Now you talk about that to Boyle tried to punish Yablonski, 385 00:23:31.880 --> 00:23:38.759 accusing him of treason and also opposing union policies, and 386 00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:41.839 he proposed the resolution to fire him from his position 387 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:45.359 as director of the non Partisan League. But you right, 388 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:49.400 even with that victory, he wasn't done. And so we 389 00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:53.240 get to this historic date June twenty third, where Boyle 390 00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:57.640 meets up with William Turnblazer, president of District nineteen, and 391 00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:02.240 Albert Pass in the hallway outside a meeting room. These 392 00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:06.359 guys are ardent Boyle loyalists, discussing events when Boyle walks 393 00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:08.920 up to them, and what does he say to turn 394 00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:11.559 Blazer and Albert pass in that hallway? 395 00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:14.720 Now basically is that Yo Blonsky's got to go. You know, 396 00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:21.559 he's Tony Boyle. John Lewis had the loyalty of mine workers. 397 00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:26.799 He was a very charismatic man, great speaker, stood in 398 00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:32.519 the trenches himself, and so he attracted loyalty and didn't 399 00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:35.880 have to demand it. Now Oyle was different. He sort 400 00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:39.319 of was not John Lewis, but he expected the same 401 00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:44.039