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Speaker 1: This is a podcast from Minute Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Shirley You Can't

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Be Serious Podcast. Shirley fans, we are so happy to

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have you here with our first music episodes of the

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season number three.

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Speaker 3: I know we are diving into two albums that turn

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forty years old this year.

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Speaker 2: And what is fantastic about this is that this first

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album throws back to two of our first albums that

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we ever covered, Michael Jackson's Thriller and Van Halen Versus

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Van Hagar.

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Speaker 3: The people out there who are listening right now who

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are like, I don't really listen to Toto or I don't

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not really familiar with Toto, Listen, if you've ever heard

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this song you've listened to right, that's Steve Luke. They're

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on the guitar, not the Eddie van Halen part, the

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other part right, and then David Page is on the keyboards,

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Jeff Pickars on the drums. Steve Piccaro wrote Human Nature

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by Michael Jackson.

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Speaker 2: So we even talked about these guys when we did

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our first Thriller episode and talked about how they were

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heavily involved with all of the music. And I mentioned

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at that time. I don't know that I could pick

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these guys out at Walmart. And there's a great picture

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out there that our friend James Buckley sent us with

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the lineup of Toto, and it says, the lineup of

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Toto looks like all the guys your mom dated after

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divorcing it down.

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Speaker 3: It's so true.

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Speaker 2: Man. They are not pretty guys, but they are basically

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like the princes of music. And I don't mean prince

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the I mean like they are royalty of music. They've

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had music passed down to them through families. So it's

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neat to see these kind of ugly guys with these

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magical musical abilities. And we're going to compare them to

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a bunch of pretty guys who really didn't even play

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music until somebody said, you know what, you guys should

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get together and make a baby.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. It's interesting because these are two sort of opposite approaches. Right,

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You've got guys who play instruments really well and are

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not good looking and hate videos, right, and then you've

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got pretty boys who love that. I mean, that's how

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they made their mark on MTV was music videos.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. But as ugly as these guys were, one of

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them was still Danty Roseanna arcat It's impressive.

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Speaker 3: I have a feeling we're going to talk about Roseanna

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Arquette yeah before we get started. Yeah, okay, So, just

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right off the bat, the guys in Toto have been

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on over five thousand albums.

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Speaker 2: That's not an exaggeration, that's not a hyperbole. Literally, over

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five thousand albums.

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Speaker 3: I heard a stat and I don't know how you

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confirm this. It said ninety five percent of the world's

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population has heard at least one performance by a member

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of Toto. Of the world, ninety five percent of the world.

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Speaker 2: That is crazy. Well, as we get into it, I

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mean Jeff Pacaro, one of the founding members of the band.

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They're very young when they start this band, and he

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still had been involved in over three dozen albums before

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they get going.

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Speaker 3: Basically, if you listen to music between nineteen seventy five

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and nineteen ninety five, you listened to Toto.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, at least one of the members of Toto was

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on the album that you were listening to. In all probabila.

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Speaker 3: These guys are a list session musicians. Yeah, let's dive

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into Luca the real quick. Okay, Yeah, when he looks

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back on his career. I thought this was very interesting.

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He pulled up the top one hundred albums of all

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time and he said he was amazed at how many

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he had played on. He didn't give a number. Yeah,

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but when he amazes himself, pretty incredible.

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Speaker 2: Okay. So our story begins with one of the greatest

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guitarists of all time, mister Ryanstone Cowboy Glenn Campbell back. So,

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did you ever watch the Smothers Brothers Show. I have

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seen it, Okay, like in a bit, it's been a bit.

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I listened to some of their comedy tapes when I

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was a kid. I remember seeing them on laugh In

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and they had their own comedy hour and at some

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point they had to be off that show for a

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little while, and Glenn Campbell was the guest host for him. Okay, Now,

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and I say greatest guitarist of all time, I mean

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he literally is. He is an incredible like he can

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play the guitar, could play the guitar behind his head,

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can do all the licks that whether you were rock, blues, jazz,

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he was phenomenal.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: But he did such a good job guest hosting The

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Smothers Brothers Show that they said, hey, how about we

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just give you your own show, And his own show

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was called the Glenn Campbell Good Time Hour. That sounds

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like a Branson show right right right, Yeah, I mean

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it's it's there for all the pre he Haw folks

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for sure. So he has his own show, and he

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picks the same guy who did the musical direction for

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the Smothers brother Show to do the musical direction for

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his show. Okay, guy who's a big band icon, guy

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named Marty Pach Marty Pache, Yes, Now, I sent you

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some music and I sent it to our friend Pat

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from thirty something movie podcastalat Canangallo is a huge jazz fan,

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and so I thought, this is big band stuff. He's

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gonna know this guy. He didn't really make it clear

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whether he knew him, but he listened. He said, I've

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been listening to this all day. It's fantastic. If you

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like big band jazz music, you pull up Marty Page

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and you're going to be happy for the rest of

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the day. He's got some fantastic music, and he's got

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some pretty cool album covers as well.

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Speaker 3: The album covers were ahead of their time.

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Speaker 2: My Gosh Naked Women on Big Band jazz I go Marty,

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That's what I got to say.

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Speaker 3: My personal favorite was the woman behind the shower door

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that was clearly naked, but it was you know, sort

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of opaqu where you couldn't see it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it is good stuff. So Marty Page

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is the band director and music composer for the Glenn

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Campbell Good Time Hour. Okay, And one day they don't

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have a percussionist. Their drummer is out for some reason

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or another, right, and so they say, okay, well who

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do we know? And there's a guy who's been in

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town for a few years. He's moved in from Connecticut,

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and his name is Joe Pkara.

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Speaker 3: Okay, this sounds like the birth of a great band. Right.

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Speaker 2: So Joe is a drummer. Right. He's an Italian guy

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who's his grandparents immigrated over they lived in the East

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part of the country, moved over to LA so that

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he could get involved with some of these big band shows,

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and has always been a drummer. Right, has three boys,

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and a girl raises those boys to be musicians. And

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he gets a call and says, hey, we need a

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drummer for the Glenn Campbell Good Time Hour. He says,

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I'm coming over. Yeah, And so he becomes the drummer

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for that band, for Glenn Campbell's band YEP. And as

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it turns out, Marty Page has a son named David

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David Page, and David is a musical prodigy, and he

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has David come and sit in and play piano whenever

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the piano player is out. And so David, although he

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does play the piano, is very interested in the drums,

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and so he starts hitting up Joe and says, hey,

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can you teach me some stuff on the drums? And

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Joe's like, yeah, sure of course. And he's like, so,

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you know, where do you go to high school? He's like, oh,

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I'm going to Grant High School. He's like, oh, my son,

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he's going he's your same age. You should meet up

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with him. He's forming a band. His name is Jeff.

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And so David says, I'd love to meet him, and

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the next thing, you know, history has changed forever.

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Speaker 3: We talked about how interesting this is, right, So, the

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idea that a famous dad and another famous dad get

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their sons together, it's kind of a unique situation. Yeah,

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but if there's ever a place in the entire world

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this is going to happen. It's Los Angeles, California.

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Speaker 2: Right, So these guys all went to Grant High School.

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They were born in fifty four, fifty fivefty six, that

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area that all the members of Toto. Well, if you'll remember,

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there were some guys who were born in fifty three

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and fifty five that we talked about a few years

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ago who were in high school at the same time

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in Pasadena. These high schools are less than thirty minutes apart, right,

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So Eddie van Halen and Alex van Halen are playing

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in Mammoth in high school in somebody's backyard at the

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same time that Jeff Bacuro and David Page are playing

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together in their band called Rural Still Life. There are

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people who probably went to high school in the seventies

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in California who saw both of these bands play before

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they were anything famous. Isn't that crazy?

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Speaker 3: That's amazing? But you know, just to kind of double

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down on that. In nineteen eighty two, when Toto was

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recording Tote four right next door in the studio, literally

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right next door van Halen's recording.

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Speaker 2: Diver down, so Studio one, van Halen's recording diver down.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Studio two, Toto four.

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Speaker 2: So these guys are literally probably crossing paths and saying, hey,

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how are you doing? What's going on? Man?

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Speaker 3: They're standing next to each other at the Arnold going hey, man,

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how you doing.

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Speaker 2: You got a bump? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Exactly, exactly, Hey, just another story about Eddie Van Halen.

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I thought this was really cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So Steve Lucather is another member of Toto, which we'll

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talk about here in a minute. As he is growing

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and becoming more well known as a guitar player, there's

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this particular guitar store in La that he likes to go,

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and when he gets there, he always gets down the guitar,

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plays a little bit, puts on a show, and the

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manager of the guitar center is like, well, this kid

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can really play. When he goes up to him, he says, hey,

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what's your name, kid, And he's like, my name is

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Steve Lucather. He's like, okay, Steve. There's another kid that

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comes in here and plays and he's really good too.

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You guys ought to get to know each other. That

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kid's name Eddie van Halen. Wow, those two guys come

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together and make perhaps Michael Jackson's greatest.

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Speaker 2: Song arguably arguably, and then the other brothers are involved

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as well. So Jeff Percaro is the oldest brother. Yes,

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he's met up with David Page. They're playing together because

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their parents are both involved in music, they start doing

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studio sessions together. Jeff Pacaro is one of the greatest

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drummers of all time. So this isn't just me saying this.

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I'm not a drummer, but all music this is a quote.

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Jeff Pacaro is arguably the most highly regarded studio drummer

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in rock from the mid seventies to the early nineties.

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And it is no exaggeration to say that the sound

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of mainstream pop rock drumming in the nineteen eighties was,

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to a large extent, the sound of Jeff Piccaro.

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Speaker 3: That's fantastic.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's great. And like I said, he's like

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air to the throne of his dad. Not that his

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dad was some huge musician. Now, Marty Page was a

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huge musician. I mean he was gigantic. He was an

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icon as far as big Man and stuff goes. And

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Joe was really just a session drummer, right, but he

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encouraged the boys and music and the beautiful part is

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because he was involved with all of these musicians. They

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would say, hey, you know, can you teach my kid

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some drums? Yeah, and he would say sure, and they're like,

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what did what do you charge me? Head goes, how

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about we just trade out. You teach my kid how

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to play piano, I'll teach a kid how to play drums.

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And so everyone of Joe Pacaro's kids got exposed to

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multiple musicians who were masters at their craft for free,

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like for drum lessons.

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Speaker 3: That's insane, that's insane. Hey, you know who else lived

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in kind of their same neighborhood area, John Williams. Oh

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that's right, John freaking Williams.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, who also had a son their same age named Joe,

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and Joe later becomes the vocalist for Toto. Yeah, but

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before that, they knew him.

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Speaker 3: As like crazy Joe, Like he's just like another kid

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in the neighborhood, you know, and they all just running

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around each other's houses.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's insane if you think about it now. Like

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I said, John Williams is a big band guy too,

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before he started hitting it big in music, composing for movies, right,

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But the youngest of these guys graduated in seventy five. Okay,

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seventy five was of the year the Jaws came out, Like,

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John Williams is not a household name until about the

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same time that these guys are forming their band together.

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Speaker 3: So it's literally possible that some of the guys from

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Toto were in the living room going, can I have

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some juice while he's composing the Jaws theme.

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Speaker 2: I guess, So, I guess that's a possibility. Okay, So

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we got Jeff, we got Dave, So let's talk about

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a couple of the other guys. Okay, we got Steve

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Lucather and we've got Steve Piccaro's Jeff's younger brother.

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Speaker 3: These guys were in the same class together as well,

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and they were friends. Yeah, but they were like younger brothers. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So what happens when David and Jeff graduate as they go,

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when they start being studio musicians, they start touring with

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some bands, and the younger brother and his buddy Luke

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is what they call Lucather, they take over the band

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and it changes the name from Rural Still Life to

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just Still Life, right, And so these guys are the

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new high school band. Steve Pacaro, who plays the keyboards

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and Lucather who plays the guitar, right right, And so

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they're carrying on the tradition. There are another prints along

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the way, and so the older brothers come back, you know,

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and listen to them play, and they're like, hey, they're

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actually doing a pretty good job.

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Speaker 3: These guys are pretty good. And in fact, they would

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come back and play the occasional prom with them, right right.

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Imagine a prom where you've got David Page, Steve Lucather

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and the two Pacaro brothers. Yeah, and they're playing, you

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know whatever, the sophomore problem. So let's dive into Lucather

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real quick. I love this story. He auditioned when he

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was in high school, so like seventeen, Frank Zappa was

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looking for a guitarist, and like anybody worth anything in

268
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the guitar world at that time in that area was like, heck, yeah,

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I want to be in the Frank Zappa band.

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Speaker 2: Sure.

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Speaker 3: So he shows up and he's just a kid, just

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a young kid. He's pretty good guitarist. But they get there.

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Frank walks in the room. He's got this real sort

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of big personality, imposing character, and he looks around and

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he finds the mousiest kid in the room. Lucather's in

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the back, just trying to hide, just trying to take

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it all in. He's like you up here, you first.

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So lucas like, uh okay. So he goes up. Frank

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zappas like, see the sheet music, you know how to

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play sheet music? Play this, and Lucather said it looked

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like somebody had wiped their butt. It was so black

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with notes that he was like, what is this? You know?

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So he fumbles around and it's it's bad, right, It's bad. Yeah,

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And Zaba was like, all right, forget, I forget it.

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Just follow me on this, and Zappa would play a

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whole bunch and He's just trying to keep up, and

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Zappa is like, that's it, you suck, get the hell

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out of here. And so Steve Vai is, I guess

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in the same room. And Steve Iai was in Frank

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Zappa's band later and he said that that was a

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practice by Zappa. He didn't want to listen to one

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hundred and fifty guitarist audition, so he wanted to humiliate

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one scare off eight and then get down to business.

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Speaker 2: And Luk at the.

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Speaker 3: Luc At there was the guy like that. He said

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he went home and just cried, Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's devastating. Well at least he didn't quit I could.

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I mean, if that happened to me, I'd be like,

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forget it. I'm just gonna quit. I'll go be in

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a turn.

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Speaker 3: It's like Walmart.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So we've talked Jeff talk, Dave talk, Luke, let's

303
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talk Steve Picaro. Okay, yep. So Page already plays keyboards

304
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and he's good. I mean, he's freaking phenomenal good, arranges everything.

305
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I mean, he's a genius. He comes from Musical Genius

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three and he is a genius himself.

307
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Speaker 3: Genius.

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Speaker 2: Read that's a word that I'm picking up.

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Speaker 4: Right with you.

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Speaker 2: Keep going, Okay, But Steve is not as proficient at playing,

311
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but he is an expert technician. So when he was

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a little kid, his dad, Joe, buys him a Realm organ.

313
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Now have you heard of the brand Realm air conditioners?

314
00:16:21,039 --> 00:16:24,000
Air conditioners? Yes, not musical instruments.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: So he's like thanks dad. Just a little while later,

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00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:32,799
he convinces his dad to go with him to the

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music center and he's like, I'd really like to trade

320
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,519
out this realm organ as much as I appreciate your

321
00:16:38,559 --> 00:16:42,240
gift for for FISA organ, and this is an organ

322
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,320
that like Pink Floyd is used and Blondie and he's

323
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,519
like that and maybe this Leslie Preamp over here and

324
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:53,759
that's like okay. Sure that was his first rig were

325
00:16:53,799 --> 00:16:57,639
those instruments. But he was fascinated by how to manipulate

326
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the sound on these new synthesizers style organs, and so

327
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he became basically a music tech nerd, and so he

328
00:17:06,279 --> 00:17:09,240
didn't have to be phenomenal as a piano player. He

329
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:11,880
was just the guy who could find that perfect sound

330
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and create it on the synthesizer.

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Speaker 3: Well that's great.

332
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Speaker 2: Yeah, And once you listen to Africa and you hear

333
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those marimbas that are coming out of a synthesizer, you're like,

334
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,920
holy crap, this guy is phenomenal. And that's the way

335
00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,640
he made his name really other than the band obviously,

336
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is he's the guy who knew how to progre like

337
00:17:29,279 --> 00:17:31,079
the way he said it was. You know those things

338
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on the back of the keyboard, the ports that everybody's like,

339
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I wonder what those are for. I knew what those

340
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were for.

341
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Speaker 3: Oh, that's great.

342
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I learned it. I learned what those things were for.

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So he became the guy who could make the sound.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I did hear that he would do certain keyboard solos. Yeah,

345
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that would take three weeks to perfect. And the guys

346
00:17:49,519 --> 00:17:52,759
were like, God, dang, this is taken forever. And they

347
00:17:52,799 --> 00:17:55,039
started to say, maybe we don't give him as many

348
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solos because so I thought that was funny. A little

349
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bit of a perfectionist, I could tell you.

350
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Speaker 2: I mean, looking at him now, he's this older man,

351
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,240
gray hair, very reserved looking guy. He's always in his

352
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studio where he now is writing, composing music for TV

353
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shows and other stuff like that. But you watch in

354
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the old like live performances from the early eighties, and

355
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,160
he's got on like the Michael Jackson V cut, but

356
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,880
even gaudier and it doesn't quite fit right, and you

357
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,319
can see his belly button and he's throwing himself around,

358
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and he's got long hair and still the big thick

359
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:34,720
coke bottle glasses. It's very eighties style. Yeah, neat to

360
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,119
see him now. I can't say anything because if you

361
00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:39,240
go back to my eighties pictures, you're gonna see a mullet.

362
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Speaker 3: Well, you know, Steve Bacaro wrote all the music for Justifying.

363
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Speaker 2: Yeah, won the Grammy for it, or an Oscar I think,

364
00:18:46,279 --> 00:18:49,119
I mean he won for Best Musical Composition in a

365
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:50,200
TV Series.

366
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Speaker 3: That's a fantastic show, Tony.

367
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Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know whatever you get for TV shows.

368
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By the way, he got that show because they had

369
00:18:57,519 --> 00:18:59,880
a great relationship with another guy that we've talked about

370
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,880
named James Newton Howard. Remember James Newton Howard. He was

371
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,480
the one who composed with Hans Zimmer on the Batman

372
00:19:07,519 --> 00:19:10,960
Begins and the Dark Knight soundtracks. He was a big producer.

373
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He was involved with all these sessions shows. He's involved

374
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,319
in the album we're talking about today. He's a big

375
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producer at the time. But they stayed friends, and you

376
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,319
know we're talking about Justified, which came out what twenty ten, Yeah,

377
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,839
so yeah, twelve years ago he's been working with James

378
00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,400
Newton Howard on doing these scores and James is like, hey,

379
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,440
do you want to just do this? You know, and

380
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:32,920
he's like, I don't really know that I could do.

381
00:19:33,039 --> 00:19:35,000
I mean, I don't like deadlines. I don't you know,

382
00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:36,640
you have to have this done by Thursday. I don't

383
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,200
like that, right, He goes, well, let's try it anyway.

384
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,720
And so he go, like, the guys from Justified are

385
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:43,279
coming to James Newton Howard and they're like, hey, we

386
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,599
want you to compose for the show. And he says, okay,

387
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,000
I'll tell you what. I will compose the opening theme

388
00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,200
if you let Steve compose all of the other music

389
00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:51,839
for the rest.

390
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:52,079
Speaker 4: Of the show.

391
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,000
Speaker 2: And they're like okay, done, And so then it becomes

392
00:19:55,039 --> 00:19:56,279
now he's got to do it. He's got to have

393
00:19:56,319 --> 00:19:58,759
the music in by Thursday. And he goes, I learned

394
00:19:58,799 --> 00:20:00,000
that I work better with a deadline.

395
00:20:00,319 --> 00:20:01,039
Speaker 3: Oh that's good.

396
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:01,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's good.

397
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 3: Here's my James Newton Howard story. Okay. So James Newton

398
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,759
Howard worked with Lucather later when Lucather got involved in

399
00:20:08,799 --> 00:20:13,119
these sessions, okay, and so he had this seventeen year

400
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,160
old prodigy in the studio. So he brings Lucather in.

401
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,279
He's like, Okay, we're going to record some of your guitar.

402
00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:21,240
This is my production assistant. He's going to take care

403
00:20:21,279 --> 00:20:21,480
of you.

404
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,880
Speaker 2: Some sort of musical genius, right, Yeah.

405
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,880
Speaker 3: He's a musical genius. He's a prodigy. The kid doesn't speak.

406
00:20:27,559 --> 00:20:32,079
Dead shy won't speak. Lucather said he never even addressed me. Okay,

407
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:33,519
so he knew what he was supposed to play. He

408
00:20:33,559 --> 00:20:35,519
goes in there, he gets the nod from the kid,

409
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,240
the seventeen year old, and when the kid gives him

410
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,119
the nod, he sort of shrinks back behind the counter

411
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,200
where you can't see him, and Lucather starts to play.

412
00:20:45,279 --> 00:20:48,079
And when he gets after it, he really gets after it.

413
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,680
Oh yeah. And he said that I was wailing away

414
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,480
on this guitar and all of a sudden, this little

415
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,559
head pops up from behind the counter, like what is

416
00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:01,119
going on in there? And then slow lower back down.

417
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:05,960
He's like it was the weirdest thing that kid. Yeah, Prince,

418
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,400
Oh my god, how about that?

419
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:18,079
Speaker 2: Holy cow, that's amazing, fantastic story. Okay, So now we've

420
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,680
got Lucather, we've got Steve Pacaro, We've got Jeff Pacaro,

421
00:21:21,799 --> 00:21:23,559
We've got David Page.

422
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,759
Speaker 3: Jeff Piccaro and David Page had played on a Steely

423
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,720
Dan record, You get your name attached to Steely Dan.

424
00:21:29,839 --> 00:21:32,640
That was sort of like these guys are really good,

425
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:34,920
and so it sort of made a name for them, right,

426
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,680
And they played with Sonny and cher Yeah, right, yeah.

427
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,480
And the funny thing is is that Lucather's dad was

428
00:21:41,519 --> 00:21:44,759
involved in like television production, and so they had shot

429
00:21:44,759 --> 00:21:47,559
a movie with Sonny and Cher and Share kind of

430
00:21:47,599 --> 00:21:51,599
doated on this little boy Steve Lucather, who then later

431
00:21:51,839 --> 00:21:54,480
when he grows up, plays on if I Could Turn

432
00:21:54,559 --> 00:22:00,640
Back Time and all these other share hits.

433
00:21:56,759 --> 00:22:06,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jeff, when he was seventeen, that was his first

434
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,720
professional gig, was playing with Sonny and Cher as on

435
00:22:09,759 --> 00:22:11,880
their touring band. And by the way, this is just

436
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,920
a total sidebar here. He at that time called Jim

437
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,519
Keltner and Jim Gordon his idols as far as drumming

438
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,079
was concerned, right, Okay, So Jim Gordon not the commissioner

439
00:22:23,079 --> 00:22:28,400
from Batman Commissioner Gordon, but a very proficient drummer. At

440
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,440
the time that Toto four is hitting big June nineteen

441
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,160
eighty three, Gordon attacks his seventy two year old mother

442
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,079
with a hammer and then stabs her to death with

443
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,519
a butcher knife. What He claims that a voice told

444
00:22:42,599 --> 00:22:44,960
him to kill her. It's only after he has arrested

445
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,880
that they realize he has got severe schizophrenia. He has

446
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,880
been in prison since that time, refuses to go to

447
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,079
his parole hearings. He's right now and basically a mental

448
00:22:54,079 --> 00:22:58,319
facility for prisoners. WHOA, This was one of Jeff Pucara's

449
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,000
idols as far as the drums are concerned.

450
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,319
Speaker 3: Wow, crazy, that is crazy.

451
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,519
Speaker 2: So during his twenties, Pacaro plays on hundreds of albums,

452
00:23:06,599 --> 00:23:09,720
including like you said, Steely Dan and I looked at

453
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,880
the list and I counted over three dozen albums that

454
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,480
he was involved with before toto debut album comes out.

455
00:23:16,599 --> 00:23:20,960
Over three dozen he's what nineteen twenty. Yeah, it's nuts.

456
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, here's the interesting thing about that. So Toto

457
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,559
is got we got two keyboardists. Yeah, but we pick

458
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,559
up David Hungate through the Boss Gags tour that we did,

459
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:31,920
So we've got him. We've got the best drummer in

460
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,799
the entire world. We've got Steve Lucatur, who's guitar legend.

461
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,680
Now we need a singer. So who do they go to?

462
00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:44,960
Michael McDonald right right, think about this, Michael McDonald says, oh, man, guys,

463
00:23:45,039 --> 00:23:47,599
I just joined the Doobie Brothers. Yeah, like you just

464
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:48,039
missed me.

465
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:48,759
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

466
00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:50,559
Speaker 3: If you'd asked me last week, I probably could have

467
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:50,880
done it.

468
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 2: That's that's amazing. A week's time and we might have

469
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,279
had Mike McDonald's singing Africa and.

470
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,920
Speaker 3: Sweet Freedom, I mean Toto's version of Sweet Freedom. But

471
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:01,839
the interesting thing so he goes on to do the

472
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,160
Doobie Brothers, but think about what could have been? Well

473
00:24:04,319 --> 00:24:05,039
what ifs there?

474
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:09,039
Speaker 2: And Michael McDonald has this fantastic story about he when

475
00:24:09,039 --> 00:24:11,480
he was he's walking out of the studio and he

476
00:24:11,599 --> 00:24:13,920
sees this guy come up to him and he's like

477
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,599
thinking he's a homeless man, Like he's rough looking, and he's,

478
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,359
you know, trying to make his way to his car

479
00:24:19,799 --> 00:24:23,160
back into the studio. And this guy's like, hey, hey, hey, Michael, Michael,

480
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,839
I got this. I got this idea for Somewhere over

481
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,000
the Rainbow with you singing the lead on it. And

482
00:24:28,319 --> 00:24:30,200
he's like, okay, all right, yeah, yeah, it sounds good,

483
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,680
sounds good, and brushes into the studio and when he

484
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,119
gets in, somebody's like, hey, did Marty Page see you?

485
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,319
He was out there trying to find you. So he's like,

486
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,240
I literally ran away from the best stream and brass

487
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,839
arranger in the world because I thought he was a

488
00:24:44,839 --> 00:24:51,000
homeless man. So if you look at Mike McDonald's debut album.

489
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,759
These Guys are on it, and Marty Page is on.

490
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,039
Speaker 3: It well, and one of their best known songs in

491
00:24:56,039 --> 00:24:58,240
the eighties, I'll Be Over You, a huge hit.

492
00:24:58,400 --> 00:24:58,759
Speaker 2: Yeah.

493
00:24:58,759 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 3: Michael McDonald's singing back up vocals on that. He's in

494
00:25:01,039 --> 00:25:02,599
the video too, which is pretty cool.

495
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we got basically now one more guy to

496
00:25:05,839 --> 00:25:08,759
talk about in the band, mister Bobby Kimball. Mister Bobby

497
00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:11,559
Kimball lived in Louisiana but was born in Texas because

498
00:25:11,559 --> 00:25:14,000
they didn't have a hospital in Louisiana where he's lived.

499
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 3: I know, our buddy James Buckley is very proud of

500
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,119
this guy's from Cajun country.

501
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:19,039
Speaker 2: So Bobby Kimball.

502
00:25:19,279 --> 00:25:19,519
Speaker 3: Yep.

503
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,319
Speaker 2: So when Bobby is four and a half years old,

504
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,559
he watches his mom and realizes, I mean, he doesn't

505
00:25:25,559 --> 00:25:26,759
know what it is at the time, but she's got

506
00:25:26,759 --> 00:25:29,359
perfect pitch. She can listen to a song on the radio,

507
00:25:29,799 --> 00:25:31,960
walk over the piano and play it all note for

508
00:25:32,039 --> 00:25:35,559
note whoa, And so he just watches her and watches

509
00:25:35,559 --> 00:25:37,000
her four and a half Her old little kid is

510
00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:39,799
just fascinated by her ability to do this, and finally

511
00:25:39,839 --> 00:25:41,680
she's like Hey, come over here, I'll teach you how

512
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:43,559
to do some stuff. So from four and a half

513
00:25:43,599 --> 00:25:47,799
to five years old, she teaches him three hundred chords.

514
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,799
So at five years old, this Bobby Kimball knows three

515
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:55,240
hundred chords. And then he's like at a barber shop

516
00:25:55,279 --> 00:25:57,640
and he sees this guy. He's in Louisiana. You know,

517
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,880
he's an old black guy out there shining shoes and

518
00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:02,279
he's listening to the guy shining shoes and he's listening

519
00:26:02,319 --> 00:26:05,759
to the pop of the rag. He's like spoppopsh and

520
00:26:05,799 --> 00:26:08,720
the guy's like humming a tune as he's doing this.

521
00:26:08,839 --> 00:26:11,960
And again, five years old, fascinated, walks out and he says,

522
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,279
what do you doing with that pop? He goes, well,

523
00:26:14,279 --> 00:26:16,759
that's rhythm, and he says, at that moment, I learned

524
00:26:16,759 --> 00:26:19,720
what rhythm was. So I had the chords, I had

525
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,359
the rhythm, and it was at that point that I

526
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,200
started writing my own music. Five years old.

527
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 3: Wow, yeah, that's incredible. I saw an interview with Bobby Campbell. Yeah,

528
00:26:28,279 --> 00:26:31,240
he's got this big personality, right, and he's kind of

529
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,799
a loud guy, you know, and he was very center

530
00:26:33,799 --> 00:26:36,519
of attention, right, And when I listened to him with

531
00:26:36,599 --> 00:26:39,599
that sort of I don't know if it's a creole accent, but.

532
00:26:39,759 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 2: He's got a weird accent because his family is from German,

533
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,200
Like he's a quarter German and he went out there

534
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,359
and lived for a while. So like when I hear him,

535
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,200
I can't place the accent. I mean it sounds a

536
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,880
little German, a little creole. I mean, it's weird.

537
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 3: Here's what he sounds like to me. He sounds like

538
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,880
a televangelist. He's got that bombastic personality and he's got

539
00:26:58,960 --> 00:26:59,920
this funky accent.

540
00:27:00,039 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, that is fantastic. So when he graduates from college,

541
00:27:04,759 --> 00:27:07,680
he moves from LA to LA. He goes from Louisiana

542
00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:10,759
to Los Angeles, yep, and he meets up with the

543
00:27:10,799 --> 00:27:14,319
guys from Three Dog Night and they decide to form

544
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,480
a new band called SS Fools. They record an album

545
00:27:17,519 --> 00:27:21,880
with CBS Records, which promptly does nothing fails. A year

546
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,680
and a half later, band is done. It's washed up.

547
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,079
So what's Bobby Kimball going to do? Well, As it happens,

548
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:28,880
there's a couple of guys looking for a singer in

549
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,799
a band. So you mentioned a couple of keyboards fantastic drum,

550
00:27:32,799 --> 00:27:35,839
you got bass, you got all kinds of lead singing possibilities,

551
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,880
because not only can Bobby sing, but David sings and

552
00:27:40,039 --> 00:27:42,960
Steve lukather sings. The other guys don't really sing so much.

553
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,000
A little bit and they'll do some backing vocals, but

554
00:27:46,039 --> 00:27:48,519
it's mostly those three guys. And then they also because

555
00:27:48,519 --> 00:27:51,359
they're so familiar with all these other studio musicians, they're

556
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,880
also bringing in all kinds of other instruments, one of

557
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,480
which is Lenny Castro, which is he's been on every

558
00:27:56,519 --> 00:27:59,119
single album that they've ever done, I think, except for one,

559
00:27:59,759 --> 00:28:03,200
and he's a world renowned congo player. You can't miss

560
00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:04,400
him on Africa.

561
00:28:04,559 --> 00:28:06,519
Speaker 3: He's in the Africa video. Yeah, by the way, So

562
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,359
just to touch on that. So David Page is kind

563
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,119
of the architect of the band. Jeff Bacaro is the leader.

564
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,400
So you and I were talking and we were like, wow,

565
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,480
this is interesting because they kind of have like three

566
00:28:15,559 --> 00:28:19,319
lead vocalists. Right, David Page sings Africa, Ye, Bobby Kimball

567
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,000
sing's the high chorus that we all know, right, look

568
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:23,759
at their sings on several songs.

569
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 2: Rosanna, He's singing the first part of Rosanna and Bobby

570
00:28:26,799 --> 00:28:27,960
Kimble singing the Higher.

571
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 3: Party, and it sounds like two people are singing. It

572
00:28:29,519 --> 00:28:32,640
is two people are singing. Ye, but we found that interesting. Well,

573
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,599
it turns out they modeled themselves after the Eagles and Fleetwood.

574
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: Mac right who both both bands have multiple multiple singers

575
00:28:40,039 --> 00:28:44,480
and multiple songwriters right, and their recording is based upon

576
00:28:44,599 --> 00:28:47,200
what they learned by the Beatles recording. I mean, you

577
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,160
want to talk about a produced album. This is a

578
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,160
polished produced album, as are almost all of their albums,

579
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,000
and they got that. I mean, say what you will

580
00:28:55,039 --> 00:28:56,480
about production. I feel like it's.

581
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 3: Kind of I love it. I don't care what anybody says.

582
00:28:58,480 --> 00:28:58,599
Speaker 1: Nut.

583
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,559
Speaker 2: I know, I know. I think I can identify with

584
00:29:01,599 --> 00:29:04,119
those folks who go well too produced, and I can

585
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:05,960
also identify with those folks who are like, did you

586
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,240
guys do any production at all? It sounds like you're

587
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,000
in somebody's garage. Right, So it's like a speedometer, Right,

588
00:29:11,039 --> 00:29:13,000
you go too far one way and it's not really

589
00:29:13,039 --> 00:29:14,559
so good. You go too far the other way, it's

590
00:29:14,559 --> 00:29:16,240
really not so good. You need it kind of somewhere

591
00:29:16,279 --> 00:29:17,960
in the middle. Right, You need a little bit of

592
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:19,799
a rough sound for certain music. And you need a

593
00:29:19,839 --> 00:29:22,200
polished sound for others if you say so, Yeah, that's

594
00:29:22,559 --> 00:29:24,319
that's where I am on that. But anyway, so they

595
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,039
modeled their production style after the Beatles, which again also

596
00:29:28,119 --> 00:29:30,799
had multiple lead singers. Yeah, every single one of those guys.

597
00:29:30,799 --> 00:29:35,559
Actually we're staying yep, Ringo. He's saying, yeah, he's a submarine, right,

598
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,799
he saying The Beatles did so many drugs. They even

599
00:29:37,839 --> 00:29:38,559
let ringosun.

600
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,519
Speaker 3: I've heard with a little help from my friends.

601
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,519
Speaker 2: So is this the point that we talk about how

602
00:29:45,559 --> 00:29:46,920
they came up with the name Toto?

603
00:29:47,039 --> 00:29:48,319
Speaker 3: I think, so let's do that.

604
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 2: Okay, do you know? Because I don't. I've heard like

605
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:51,799
four different stories.

606
00:29:52,039 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 3: So there are four different stories depending on who's telling

607
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:55,119
the story.

608
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 2: Right.

609
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:59,119
Speaker 3: So I've heard that Toto means like all encompassing, like

610
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,400
all types of music. I've heard that they got stoned

611
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,079
watching The Wizard of Oz. I tend to believe the

612
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:07,599
stoned Wizard of Oz story.

613
00:30:07,799 --> 00:30:10,279
Speaker 2: Well, if you listen to Bobby Kimball tell the story.

614
00:30:10,319 --> 00:30:13,759
Even now it is David and Jeff we're talking about

615
00:30:13,799 --> 00:30:15,440
all of how to put the band together, and the

616
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,839
TV's on. While they're talking about how to put the

617
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:19,920
band together. Now we know that these guys did a

618
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,160
lot of drugs. I mean, you're with musicians, that's what's

619
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:24,839
going to happen. I don't know whether they're on drugs

620
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,440
while Wizard of Oz was going on or not, but hey,

621
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,400
if you're going to watch The Wizard of Oz as

622
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,519
an adult, you probably should be on drugs. No. But

623
00:30:33,759 --> 00:30:36,359
and so then the once they get done with who

624
00:30:36,359 --> 00:30:38,119
do we want to be in the band, then they're like, hey,

625
00:30:38,119 --> 00:30:40,359
what should we call the band? And yeah, they see

626
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,160
somebody yelling Toto, Toto come back, and that's where they

627
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:44,079
come up with total.

628
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 3: From bands at the time, like kiss. I mean, it's

629
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,960
an easy word, it's easy to remember. It stands out

630
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:50,279
from the crowd. I get it.

631
00:30:50,319 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 2: And so the other potentially urban myth that's out there,

632
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,519
we've got Latin. You know, in Toto means all encompassing,

633
00:30:57,559 --> 00:30:59,400
which that's the type of band they come from, all

634
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,000
different genre was, all different styles. Then you've got the

635
00:31:02,039 --> 00:31:04,680
Toto from Wizard of Oz. And then there was this

636
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,119
idea that they wanted to be overprotective of their music,

637
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,039
and so Jeff would write Toto on every one of

638
00:31:11,039 --> 00:31:14,920
their cassettes just as a I mean too too, just

639
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,799
that just kind of random letters thrown together to go

640
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,079
this is ours, don't touch it. And once they got

641
00:31:20,119 --> 00:31:22,359
all of their cassettes together and had to put together

642
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,200
a band, they were like, well, let's just call it Toto.

643
00:31:24,279 --> 00:31:25,440
I mean, that's good works for us.

644
00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 3: Okay, makes sense.

645
00:31:26,519 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 2: So I don't know which of those stories is true,

646
00:31:28,319 --> 00:31:30,920
don't care. I like that there are multiple stories. As

647
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,680
we do this, we find out that time can change

648
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,000
a lot of what history is.

649
00:31:35,079 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 3: There's about four different versions on how Rosanna the song

650
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,319
got its title too.

651
00:31:39,319 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah so, and the writing of Africa, and I

652
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:47,640
mean our whole catalog of episodes, we've heard multiple stories

653
00:31:47,799 --> 00:31:48,680
on how things happen.

654
00:31:48,839 --> 00:31:51,559
Speaker 3: That's right, So don't kill a messenger exactly. I find

655
00:31:51,559 --> 00:31:54,200
it interesting that Columbia offered them a record deal without

656
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,359
hearing a single note. Well, their demo was three dozen

657
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,680
other songs that they had been involved in since right,

658
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,599
we know what you guys can do. You guys are

659
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,359
forming a band we want in sounds good for record deal. Interestingly,

660
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,200
when they form Toto, it's a six way split. I

661
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,599
found this fascinating. Okay, even though Jeff Piicaro is the leader,

662
00:32:11,759 --> 00:32:14,680
David Page is the architect six Way Splits real band.

663
00:32:14,799 --> 00:32:17,480
They were encouraged to bring guys in his hired hands.

664
00:32:17,519 --> 00:32:20,599
They're like, nope, we are a band, right, Okay. So

665
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:21,920
it's nineteen seventy seven.

666
00:32:22,039 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 4: Yep.

667
00:32:22,319 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 2: Steve Picaro is asked to join up with Gary Wright

668
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,680
because they're about to do their dream Weaver tour.

669
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,599
Speaker 3: Wait wait wait wait wait, dream Weaver that one, that's

670
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:35,039
the one.

671
00:32:35,519 --> 00:32:36,119
Speaker 1: Woo.

672
00:32:36,319 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 2: You can see how his keyboard skills would come in

673
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,200
great for that particular song.

674
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 3: Such a good one man.

675
00:32:41,599 --> 00:32:45,319
Speaker 2: All right, And then they all get together and they

676
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,240
form Toto, and that we have the release of the

677
00:32:49,440 --> 00:33:04,000
very first Toto album, Toto.

678
00:33:07,799 --> 00:33:09,759
Speaker 3: Let's talk about hold the line for a second. David

679
00:33:09,799 --> 00:33:11,480
Page came to the band. He's like, hey, I think

680
00:33:11,519 --> 00:33:13,599
I've got something cool. And it starts off with that

681
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,160
real heavy piano, but it's a rocker. Lukather adds that

682
00:33:17,279 --> 00:33:20,359
crunchy guitar and it's one of the great songs of

683
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,200
the seventy.

684
00:33:22,119 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 4: It's not in no way you look absolutely.

685
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,039
Speaker 3: I love So when they were putting it together, they

686
00:33:39,079 --> 00:33:41,440
started laying down the parts of it and it came

687
00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:43,920
time for Luca Third to play the guitar solo for

688
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,119
this one, and they knew they had a hit, right,

689
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,319
and so they're like, listen, this is a great song

690
00:33:48,359 --> 00:33:49,880
and they go to look through. They're like, dude, you

691
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:51,519
really got to come with it because this is the

692
00:33:51,519 --> 00:33:53,680
one that's going to put us on the map. And

693
00:33:53,759 --> 00:33:56,200
so look, there's like, oh, okay, no pressure, right, And

694
00:33:56,279 --> 00:33:58,880
so he goes in and here comes his guitar solo

695
00:33:59,079 --> 00:34:01,240
and by the end of it, they're in the control

696
00:34:01,319 --> 00:34:06,000
room jumping up and down.

697
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 2: Look at there is such a master of course, I mean,

698
00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:28,199
and to have them go it's all, it's all depending

699
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,039
upon you and then deliver to the point that those

700
00:34:31,039 --> 00:34:34,440
guys are jumping up and down. That's fantastic, isn't that awesome? Yeah,

701
00:34:34,519 --> 00:34:36,960
the way he does it, he says, if the solo

702
00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:39,360
doesn't come to me in like the first or second try,

703
00:34:39,519 --> 00:34:41,400
I'm gonna just quit for a little while and come

704
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,400
back to it later. If it doesn't come, then you're

705
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:44,880
just not feeling the music the way you should, and

706
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,440
you should just step away and come back later on Okay, okay.

707
00:34:47,519 --> 00:34:49,199
So one of the other albums that he's a part

708
00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:52,679
of right after they've done Toto for is Lionel Richie

709
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,280
can't slow down right Yeah, And one of the songs

710
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,079
is running with the Knife. They want him to play

711
00:34:57,079 --> 00:34:58,480
the solo. They're like, we want you to play the

712
00:34:58,519 --> 00:35:00,519
solo for the end. It's like the tro to the

713
00:35:00,519 --> 00:35:02,719
song last couple of minutes. Just you know, that's what

714
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,480
we want you to do. He's like, okay, he goes

715
00:35:04,559 --> 00:35:06,119
play it for me and I'll listen to it and

716
00:35:06,159 --> 00:35:20,760
see what I can do. Right, But he just keeps

717
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,079
on going like this for two solid minutes, the last

718
00:35:23,079 --> 00:35:25,880
two minutes of the song. He just keeps rocking. It

719
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,360
gets better and better as the song goes along, and

720
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,440
so he finishes and they're like, okay, great, thanks. He's like,

721
00:35:32,039 --> 00:35:34,280
wait a minute, what now? I was just noodling around.

722
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,599
What do we I'm ready to go and they're like no, no, no,

723
00:35:36,679 --> 00:35:38,320
what you did is fine. That's good. Thanks.

724
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:38,760
Speaker 3: Wow.

725
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 2: So what you hear on that album his very first attempt,

726
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:43,840
and it wasn't even attempt. It was like I'm playing

727
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,400
around to see what I can hear before I make

728
00:35:46,519 --> 00:35:48,920
my first attempt. And they're like, nope, what you did

729
00:35:49,039 --> 00:35:50,039
was fine. We're keeping it.

730
00:35:50,199 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 3: That's awesome, man, that's awesome. By the way, Just to

731
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,360
add on something about Hold the Line. Yeah, such a

732
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,519
great song. Yes, it peaked at number five January thirteenth,

733
00:35:58,599 --> 00:36:01,880
nineteen seventy nine, and I was like, man, what songs

734
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,119
are better than Hold the Line?

735
00:36:03,199 --> 00:36:03,320
Speaker 2: Right?

736
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 3: I mean there's four better songs?

737
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 2: Right? I love it when you do this. That's my

738
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,840
favorite part of our podcast. You say, what song beat

739
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:10,159
this song?

740
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,639
Speaker 3: What song is better than Hold the Line? Here you go? Ready?

741
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,920
Number four You Don't Bring Me Flowers Barber Streisan Neil Diamond,

742
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,039
not better but iconic song seventies okay, yees? Iconic Number

743
00:36:22,079 --> 00:36:26,119
three My Life Billy Joel, the theme from Bosom Buddies.

744
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,079
Speaker 2: I love that song, huge song, okay.

745
00:36:29,599 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 3: Number two Left Freak by chic.

746
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,559
Speaker 2: Oh Wow, okay, huge huge.

747
00:36:35,159 --> 00:36:38,199
Speaker 3: Song in the seventies, right yeah, now Rogers yeah, and

748
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:54,639
number one Too Much Heaven by the Begs. Wow, those

749
00:36:54,679 --> 00:36:56,880
are all hugely iconic songs from the seventies.

750
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you can't. I mean talk about defining

751
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,000
moments in nineteen seventy nine for sure?

752
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:01,519
Speaker 3: Right?

753
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's okay, okay, fair enough, fair enough.

754
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 3: I're not gonna cover too much Heaven here in a

755
00:37:07,559 --> 00:37:10,239
few weeks, right, yeah, right, we're gonna do Dive into

756
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:10,800
the Beg's.

757
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna do Saturday Night Fever versus Dirty Dancing.

758
00:37:14,519 --> 00:37:17,880
Whoo Hey, everybody be sure and right now tap your

759
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,679
screen the little three dots on your podcast player and

760
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:22,760
hit that follow button so that you're sure to catch

761
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,719
that one. And oh, here's a little contest that we're

762
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,840
gonna do. All right, yep. If you write a review

763
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,760
five star review for us and you use the word

764
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:34,400
kill him and Jarro or Sarngetti in your review, you

765
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,480
will be entered in a contest to win a custom

766
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:43,000
engraved surely you can't be serious aluminum awesome yetti cup that's.

767
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 3: Fanta, and you get a shout out from us on

768
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:48,119
the podcast absolutely fantastic, Sarah Getty or kill him in Jarl.

769
00:37:48,119 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 2: Right, find a way to fit it into your review,

770
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,480
and we're gonna you're gonna be interested entered into that contest,

771
00:37:54,519 --> 00:37:57,559
all right? Yeah, okay, So, also on that album, in

772
00:37:57,599 --> 00:38:00,320
addition to Hold the Line, they had all supply the

773
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,360
Love and Georgie Porgy, which had sheerl in on it,

774
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:05,840
and it was a big I mean, got nominated for

775
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,000
a Grammy for Best New Artist. And then After they

776
00:38:09,119 --> 00:38:11,679
closed that tour, they start work on their next album,

777
00:38:11,679 --> 00:38:15,320
which is titled Hydra Right it's released later that year,

778
00:38:15,599 --> 00:38:19,039
comes out with a single ninety nine you know this one, Yeah,

779
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,360
inspired by George Lucas's film THHX eleven.

780
00:38:23,079 --> 00:38:27,760
Speaker 3: Thirty fantastic Yeah, starring Robert Duvall, who we just covered

781
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:29,280
in The Godfather exactly.

782
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 2: So Steve Lucatherer, by the way, hates that song.

783
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,760
Speaker 3: I think it's great when people say that Hyder was.

784
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:39,199
Speaker 2: Not a big commercial success. Still went gold, but compared

785
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:43,000
to their original album, it kind of paled in comparison.

786
00:38:43,039 --> 00:38:45,400
And then in nineteen eighty one they come out with

787
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,320
their third album, turn Back.

788
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:48,559
Speaker 3: That's a big fizzle too.

789
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so what they tried to do on this

790
00:38:50,679 --> 00:38:54,000
one was some arena rock. They pulled back on the keyboards,

791
00:38:54,079 --> 00:38:57,280
they heavied up their guitars. But this is just not them,

792
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:58,679
This is not total Yeah.

793
00:38:58,679 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 3: It just didn't work for him.

794
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 2: So at this point, major successful album on their first

795
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,559
album and then two disappointments, and the record company comes

796
00:39:05,599 --> 00:39:07,639
to him and says, guys, if you don't give us

797
00:39:07,639 --> 00:39:09,760
some hits on this next album, we're going to drop

798
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,679
you off the label. Yeah, Pressure's on, right, pressure is

799
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,039
on now. I will say this, Okay, this is interesting.

800
00:39:16,079 --> 00:39:17,760
Turn Back is a hit in.

801
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,079
Speaker 3: Japan those Japanese people. Yeah, they up.

802
00:39:20,159 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 2: And we're going to talk a little bit later on

803
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,920
about Africa and how Africa became what it is again

804
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,760
in the twenty first century. I think Japan has to

805
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,440
have something to do with it. But Toto is one

806
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,079
of those bands, I mean Toade's probably in like Beatles

807
00:39:34,159 --> 00:39:36,199
League as far as Japan is concerned.

808
00:39:36,679 --> 00:39:39,079
Speaker 3: By the way, before we get too far down the road,

809
00:39:39,119 --> 00:39:42,639
December fifteenth, nineteen eighty one, Bobby Kimbell gets arrested for

810
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,039
selling cocaine to an undercover police officer. Right, but he

811
00:39:46,079 --> 00:39:48,320
didn't really sell it to the police officer. He sold

812
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:49,880
it to a couple of girls who sold it to

813
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:50,719
a police officer.

814
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, or they fingered him something.

815
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of and the details on this are weird.

816
00:39:55,519 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

817
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 3: The amount that he sold four ounces, four ounces, that's

818
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:00,920
ninety grams cocaine.

819
00:40:00,679 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 2: A lot as far as cocaine is concerned. It's not

820
00:40:03,039 --> 00:40:05,199
much for a cannon coke, but for a bag of coke,

821
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:06,159
it's a lot.

822
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:12,760
Speaker 3: That's like al Pacino's scarface levels of cocaine.

823
00:40:13,039 --> 00:40:18,199
Speaker 2: Right, So pressures on they have to have maximum success,

824
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,320
big hits on album number four, which they decide to

825
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:31,480
call Toto four. So what they decide to do is

826
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,559
go back to the formula that help them succeed on

827
00:40:34,639 --> 00:40:38,320
their first album. They are going to do a highly polished,

828
00:40:38,519 --> 00:40:43,280
highly produced album where they utilize all kinds of outside

829
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,039
musicians to give it a more full feel and as

830
00:40:47,119 --> 00:40:49,400
clean and awesome as it can be. It takes the

831
00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:52,880
months they record during nineteen eighty one and nineteen eighty two,

832
00:40:53,159 --> 00:40:55,239
and they get a bigger budget for this one so

833
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,360
that they can bring these musicians in. Okay, normally when

834
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,199
you're doing a recording, you the band will have a

835
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:05,480
twenty four track recorder. Toto used three twenty four track

836
00:41:05,519 --> 00:41:06,960
recorders at the same time.

837
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 3: It's cool that the record comany still believed in them

838
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:10,360
that much at that moment.

839
00:41:10,559 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 2: Well, it's like we said, like, not only did they

840
00:41:13,079 --> 00:41:15,440
do a lot of stuff before they became Toto, they

841
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,599
did a lot of stuff while they were Toto. It's

842
00:41:17,599 --> 00:41:20,320
not as though Toto was their only job. They continued

843
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,199
to be session musicians and appeared on all kinds of albums,

844
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:28,079
of other artists while they're releasing their own albums from

845
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:31,719
seventy eight through eighty two. By the way, yeah.

846
00:41:31,559 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 3: Luke at they're played on Olivian Newton John's physical and

847
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,119
listen to this. This blew me away. The guys in

848
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,480
Toto played on Quincy Jones album called The Dude, The Dude,

849
00:41:42,599 --> 00:41:43,320
The Dude.

850
00:41:43,079 --> 00:41:45,519
Speaker 2: El Duderino. If you're not under the whole brevity.

851
00:41:45,119 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 3: Thing, I didn't know Quincy Jones. Oh heck, yeah, dude,

852
00:41:49,039 --> 00:41:51,760
I didn't know. I mean, of course I'm okay, so

853
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,079
I will say this. I wanted to find out if

854
00:41:54,159 --> 00:41:56,079
Marty Pach I mean just because keep in mind, all

855
00:41:56,119 --> 00:41:58,760
these guys are been big band jazz guys. I wanted

856
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,480
to see if Marty Pach ever played with Jan van

857
00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:04,079
Halen because Jan van Halen, remember, was also a big

858
00:42:04,119 --> 00:42:04,519
band guy.

859
00:42:04,679 --> 00:42:07,039
Speaker 2: Right. I just Yan didn't appear to be the success,

860
00:42:07,159 --> 00:42:09,239
and I can't find anything that shows that they ever

861
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:09,920
played together.

862
00:42:10,079 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 3: What is to think about.

863
00:42:11,079 --> 00:42:14,519
Speaker 2: What is interesting is that Joe Pacaro, the guy who

864
00:42:14,639 --> 00:42:17,320
said hey, you should meet my son Jeff to David Page,

865
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,800
was involved in all four of these albums.

866
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, he arranges and does all kinds of stuff. Behind

867
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:22,679
the scenes.

868
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, Marty Page is involved in the first one. I

869
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,480
think some of the others as well, and so it's

870
00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:31,719
really interesting to see how the dads have helped out. Okay,

871
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,239
So they had a producer that they wanted to be

872
00:42:34,559 --> 00:42:37,559
the producer for Toe of four, but ultimately could not

873
00:42:37,679 --> 00:42:41,159
reach an agreement with him, okay, and so what happened

874
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,519
was they had been working with this engineer named Al

875
00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:46,239
Schmidt on some of the session albums that they had

876
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,119
done just before Tota four is about to start recording,

877
00:42:49,199 --> 00:42:51,800
and so whenever that deal with the other producer when

878
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,559
falls apart, they all say, well, what about out, let's

879
00:42:54,599 --> 00:42:57,159
let's have him engineer and we'll just we'll be the producers.

880
00:42:57,199 --> 00:42:59,239
But he can he can engineer the whole thing. So

881
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,440
he engineered primarily the entire album himself.

882
00:43:02,599 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 3: So let's just touch on a few things Toto four.

883
00:43:05,519 --> 00:43:08,840
The interesting thing to me is once they had recorded

884
00:43:09,199 --> 00:43:11,880
the majority of Toto four, they're sitting there in the

885
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:15,039
recording studio one day and these headphones go flying across

886
00:43:15,119 --> 00:43:17,760
the room, smashing into the wall, and they turn around

887
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:20,480
and it's David Hungate and they're like, dude, what's going on?

888
00:43:20,519 --> 00:43:22,519
He's like, I can't take any more of this crap.

889
00:43:22,679 --> 00:43:25,119
I quit. I'm out of here, see ya.

890
00:43:25,559 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 2: So bizarre.

891
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 3: They were totally taken back. Look at theirs, like, what

892
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,440
what are you talking about? We're about to have this

893
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,079
the best album we've ever put out, and you're quitting. Well,

894
00:43:34,119 --> 00:43:36,760
it turns out he wanted to produce and compose and

895
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,800
do some other stuff. He had already moved his family

896
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:40,760
to Nashville, so he wanted to make his mark on

897
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:42,519
this album, and then as soon as that had kind

898
00:43:42,519 --> 00:43:43,719
of come to a close, he quit.

899
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 2: Okay, So that brings us to Toto four.

900
00:43:46,679 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 3: That brings us to the Album of the Year in

901
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,159
nineteen eighty three, right the make or break album for

902
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,719
Toto where they had to have hits and hits they had.

903
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 2: So come back next week and join us as we

904
00:43:59,519 --> 00:44:02,519
hit Total four track by track.

905
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:03,599
Speaker 4: A mover.

906
00:44:05,679 --> 00:44:11,559
Speaker 3: I'm just rays down in Astrica. We gotta take some

907
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:17,280
time to do the things we never