Speaker 1: Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is
Speaker 1: not intended for all audiences.
Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 3: He was pulling my wrists, and he pulled me in
Speaker 3: the vehicle, and he's reaching and he's pulling.
Speaker 4: When you are being held against your.
Speaker 3: Will and you have no idea what's ahead of you,
Speaker 3: it felt like it lasted forever.
Speaker 1: Oh boy, you guys not gonna like this one. The
Speaker 1: misogyny does run thick here at Sword Scale Enjoy. There
Speaker 1: is a line between a man and a monster. And
Speaker 1: when I say man, I'm also obviously talking about you. Ladies.
Speaker 1: You're not immune from this, But that line is thinner
Speaker 1: than we'd like to believe. Most people will never cross it,
Speaker 1: living their lives without ever feeling the sharp edge of
Speaker 1: true darkness. But under the right or perhaps the wrong circumstances,
Speaker 1: even the most ordinary person can unravel. Just look at
Speaker 1: my Facebook feed. A moment of rage, desperation, or even
Speaker 1: fear can crack something deep inside, something buried, unleashing a
Speaker 1: version of themselves they never thought possible. Not every killer
Speaker 1: is born a monster. Some are made shaped by pressure,
Speaker 1: by pain, by a perfect storm of events that turn
Speaker 1: any human into something unrecognizable. That's the whole point we've
Speaker 1: been trying to make here for eleven years. It's not
Speaker 1: about true crime, it's about human nature, what makes you tick,
Speaker 1: and once that line is crossed, there is no going back.
Speaker 5: Well, I would like to say on May seven, twenty nineteen,
Speaker 5: I had no idea that when I called my brother
Speaker 5: that I would be inundated with phone calls from law
Speaker 5: enforcement from Clayton County, Georgia. I immediately panicked and feared
Speaker 5: the worst. I had no intention on answering those calls.
Speaker 5: Due to fear, I answered the phone by mistake, and
Speaker 5: within five minutes my wife called me and told me
Speaker 5: there was a deputy at the house to see me.
Speaker 5: My life from that point has never been the same.
Speaker 5: The following day, I found myself repeating to my wife,
Speaker 5: I do not know how I'm going to tell my
Speaker 5: parents or explain to them how this happened.
Speaker 1: The voice you just heard belonged to a man named
Speaker 1: Keith Herring. He was speaking about an incident involving his
Speaker 1: older brother, Kenneth. On the evening of May seventh, twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: sixty two year old Kenneth Herring was driving on a
Speaker 1: busy Highway in Clayton County near Hartsfield Jackson International Airport
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, an airport I know very very well at
Speaker 1: some point he drove into an intersection that he shouldn't have.
Speaker 6: The story begins with Kenneth Harry and his car driving
Speaker 6: them all and there's pretty much no doubt that he
Speaker 6: runs a red black near Forest Parkway through Riverdale Road
Speaker 6: when he runs that red light, and another tractor trailer
Speaker 6: were coming toward that intercession, and mister Herring hits the
Speaker 6: trailer and everybody pulls off.
Speaker 7: To the side to deal with the fact that there's
Speaker 7: just been a traffic accident.
Speaker 1: Several other motorists saw the crash unfold and some pulled
Speaker 1: over to help, including Georgia Correctional officer named Terry Robinson.
Speaker 8: Did you witness a vehicle collision on May nineteen, Yes, ma'am?
Speaker 8: And where did that collision occur?
Speaker 9: Clark Howell and Forest Parkway. As we were approaching the light,
Speaker 9: the light was green. The vehicles were turning to the
Speaker 9: left and the truck I know, was turning right. All
Speaker 9: of a sudden, I've seen this room vehicle come famn.
Speaker 9: He decided the truck.
Speaker 1: Jerry Robinson wasn't on duty at the time. He wasn't
Speaker 1: a traffic copper Highway patrolman neither, but as a correctional officer,
Speaker 1: he took it upon himself to control the scene until
Speaker 1: the proper authorities could get there.
Speaker 8: Now, what damages did you observe to the red maroon
Speaker 8: truck after the accident?
Speaker 9: The front end of the heavily damage radiator forward, all
Speaker 9: water for leaking out, and everything was heavily damage to
Speaker 9: the front. Because I was thinking that this can not
Speaker 9: go anywhere, I assumed that, hey, the vehicle was disabled.
Speaker 1: The pickup truck was wrecked, practically totaled. As for Kenneth Herring,
Speaker 1: he didn't appear to be injured, but he was somewhat dazed,
Speaker 1: and that's all.
Speaker 9: The gentleman's kind of slumped over a little bit. That's
Speaker 9: what made me pull over to see if heels okay,
Speaker 9: and I when I got a car, that's when I
Speaker 9: asked the gentleman's okay, and then just basically making sure
Speaker 9: that the gentleman's okay, that's when I called nine one one.
Speaker 1: Kenneth was responsive, but there clearly was something wrong with
Speaker 1: him and he was possibly drunk. After checking on Kenneth's
Speaker 1: well being, Terry Robinson called for help.
Speaker 10: As it so happens that just happened to be one
Speaker 10: of the worst traffic days in that area.
Speaker 11: Too.
Speaker 7: Any file was shut.
Speaker 4: Down because a battery.
Speaker 10: Trump had called on fire, So law enforcement is kind
Speaker 10: of blocking the entrance.
Speaker 6: And exits for two eighty five. And then there's another
Speaker 6: accident somewhere else in that area.
Speaker 10: So traffic is piled up, cars everywhere, no one can
Speaker 10: really get anywhere, and it's taking law enforcement a few
Speaker 10: moments to get to the sea.
Speaker 1: More than twenty minutes had passed since Terry called nine
Speaker 1: to one one, No cops or emergency services had arrived,
Speaker 1: So Terry called again.
Speaker 12: Clay in County nine one one, what is the location
Speaker 12: of your emergency carcle and Forest Corporate is being a
Speaker 12: rare call earlier though we had been over right twenty
Speaker 12: minutes round and.
Speaker 13: Or no Hamlett that's thrown up. It's this location. And
Speaker 13: I can say the ball, a Rady coder and a
Speaker 13: semi tractor truck and none has told up at this
Speaker 13: moment of time.
Speaker 14: Okay, I just get a call.
Speaker 3: We already had someone on the way.
Speaker 1: The dispatcher assured Terry that help was on the way. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: another witness to the crash also called.
Speaker 7: Nine one one Clayton County.
Speaker 12: Now one one one is the location of your emergency? Yes, Pam,
Speaker 12: I'm w on Forest Parkway and Clark Howell Highway and.
Speaker 15: There was just an accident.
Speaker 14: I'm sure they've already called, but I was just I
Speaker 14: just witnessed it, and I just wanted to make sure that.
Speaker 13: I, I guess called the police as well.
Speaker 16: In case they didn't.
Speaker 4: What were the kind of vehicles?
Speaker 13: And Vogue, It's a red Dodge pickup truck.
Speaker 14: I think it's a Dakota ver and a semi was
Speaker 14: involved and the red Dakota of brandy red light and
Speaker 14: plammed into the side of the semi.
Speaker 12: Okay, and what's your name?
Speaker 8: Funny ms Hannah Anna last name, It's Payne p A.
Speaker 16: Y n E.
Speaker 1: Terry and the other witness continued to wait. As they did,
Speaker 1: they noticed something strange. Kenneth Herring had climbed out of
Speaker 1: his truck and began aimlessly wandering around.
Speaker 10: Mister Harry appeared somewhat confused after the accident, kept saying.
Speaker 4: Who hit me?
Speaker 10: What's happening things along those lines, and then started saying
Speaker 10: things like I didn't do anything wrong.
Speaker 1: Kenneth wandered in circles a few times. Then he got
Speaker 1: back behind the wheel of his truck and tried to
Speaker 1: restart the engine.
Speaker 9: He got back into the truck when I'm calling. He
Speaker 9: got through the truck and I said, well, sir, you
Speaker 9: okay like that, and he's I'm ready to go, like
Speaker 9: I said, so you can't go anywhere. You know, I
Speaker 9: can't go anywhere, And all of a sudden he turned
Speaker 9: on the vehicle and I'm like, well, sir, you can't
Speaker 9: do anything. You can't move, you can't move, and that's
Speaker 9: when he put it in, put it in a dry
Speaker 9: and floored it.
Speaker 1: Kenneth sped off Terry, while still on the phone with
Speaker 1: the nine to one one dispatcher, watched as the damaged
Speaker 1: pickup disappeared down the highway.
Speaker 13: The reason why I'm answering man, because this is the
Speaker 13: drama who called the accident. I think he's uncared. Uh,
Speaker 13: something's going on with him, and so the thing, if
Speaker 13: I were trying to tell him, was a turn of
Speaker 13: the gas off from the most He's not following the
Speaker 13: name so that's why I'm master. If he's moving it here,
Speaker 13: he's going to drive off. Man, he's driving off. He's
Speaker 13: driving off. Take a picture of driving like.
Speaker 17: Take a picture.
Speaker 13: Quack quick, wait wait quick, he's driving off. He's driving off. Yeah,
Speaker 13: he's heading for a s he's heading for Riverdale Road.
Speaker 13: He has the all the black gentleman, gray hair, blue
Speaker 13: shirt on and front end damage, heaving the front end
Speaker 13: damage in front. Tame lead. I knew he was coming
Speaker 13: wrong with it, gay, I knew it.
Speaker 1: As Kenneth had fled the scene, the other witness, Hannah Pain,
Speaker 1: didn't hesitate. She jumped into her jeep Wrangler and took
Speaker 1: off after him.
Speaker 13: Okay, good, cool, God, Now I love the driver who
Speaker 13: was and she's going to take a picture of hoping
Speaker 13: that the lady. The lady in the street was almost
Speaker 13: in the recident. So she turned around and she went
Speaker 13: after him. So she's going to take a picture of
Speaker 13: the three ears and stuff.
Speaker 1: As Hannah pursued Kenneth, she stayed on the phone with
Speaker 1: the nine to one one dispatcher and relayed his movements.
Speaker 16: Now one one with the location of.
Speaker 18: Yes, ma'am, I'm on cars Powell.
Speaker 16: It's Worth Parkway, the section I actually.
Speaker 14: Called twenty minutes ago for an accident, and no one
Speaker 14: has done up yet.
Speaker 18: But I am running the intension that the guy that
Speaker 18: caused the accident, he ran the red bike, is drunk and.
Speaker 13: He got me back in his car and he's looking
Speaker 13: like he's trying to drive away.
Speaker 16: Hey, can you get a sad humper.
Speaker 15: Hold on driving away? Her shots Dakota Hold, Okay, so
Speaker 15: he is going we down park No.
Speaker 19: Sorry, now Court Parkway.
Speaker 16: So you couldn't get the same number.
Speaker 18: No, but I'm patting helping him right now.
Speaker 1: Hannah followed Kenneth and eventually caught up to him. What
Speaker 1: happened next left several other drivers stunned and horrified.
Speaker 7: Now did you see any sort of struggle between the
Speaker 7: driver of the car that she's standing at in this pain? Yes, okay,
Speaker 7: describe what you.
Speaker 16: Saw, just like a little pushing back and forth.
Speaker 4: What else happens next?
Speaker 20: I ended up pulling on my phone and record. Honestly,
Speaker 20: I ain't to say it like this, but that was
Speaker 20: like another dig in Clayton County. And as I was recording,
Speaker 20: I heard a gunshot.
Speaker 1: On May seventh, twenty nineteen, a gunshot echoed through the
Speaker 1: traffic on Riverdale Road in Clayton County, Georgia. Drivers hit
Speaker 1: their brakes, their heads whipping towards a sound. At first,
Speaker 1: it seemed like just another case of road rage until
Speaker 1: they saw the blood. Someone was shot, someone was dying.
Speaker 1: On the evening of May seventh, twenty nineteen, sixty two
Speaker 1: year old Kenneth Herring caused a traffic accident on a
Speaker 1: busy highway in Clayton County, Georgia. He ran a red light,
Speaker 1: driving his pickup truck headfirst into the side of a
Speaker 1: tractor trailer. The semi driver was unharmed, but witnesses noticed
Speaker 1: something about Kenneth, something off. He seemed confused, maybe even drunk.
Speaker 1: Among those who stopped to help was an off duty
Speaker 1: correctional officer named Terry Robinson. Was the vehicle operable at
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 9: It wasn't good law, but we see it happened that
Speaker 9: he was leaving to turn it on and leave the scene.
Speaker 10: He realized at some point mister Robson did that, mister
Speaker 10: Harry kind of circling his vehicle.
Speaker 7: He didn't know what's going on. He might end in
Speaker 7: his car and drive somewhere.
Speaker 10: I think he's going to leave the state, And sure enough,
Speaker 10: mister Harry does get in his vehicle and he did
Speaker 10: try it.
Speaker 1: About twenty minutes after the accident, Kenneth did something unexpected.
Speaker 1: He climbed back into his truck and sped away. A
Speaker 1: short time later, and just a couple of miles down
Speaker 1: the road, a frantic driver flagged down a police sergeant.
Speaker 21: Yes, I was flagged down by a citizen that informed
Speaker 21: me there had in a vehicle accident and someone.
Speaker 4: Had been shot.
Speaker 7: When you first arrived, kind of describe what you initially see.
Speaker 21: There's a large crowd of people, obviously the two vehicles
Speaker 21: that appeared to have collided, and there were other vehicles
Speaker 21: pulled over to the side to I guess assist with
Speaker 21: the situation, and multiple witnesses pointing to a red pickup
Speaker 21: truck and that the man inside had been shot.
Speaker 1: The officer was directed to Kenneth's truck. Inside, Kenneth was unresponsive,
Speaker 1: slumped in the driver's seat, bleeding from a gunshot wound
Speaker 1: to his abdomen.
Speaker 3: And what did you do?
Speaker 21: We're trying to identify where his gunshot wound was and
Speaker 21: basically what was going on with him as long as
Speaker 21: trying to get the driver's side door open.
Speaker 7: And was a paramedics or empty or an ambulance?
Speaker 4: Requested, Yes, they were?
Speaker 7: And were there also civilians assisting you with mister Herring? Yes,
Speaker 7: before the paramedics arrived. Did mister Herring ever say anything
Speaker 7: while you were there?
Speaker 1: When paramedics arrived at the scene, they rushed Kenneth to
Speaker 1: the hospital, but it was too late. Kenneth Herring, a father,
Speaker 1: a husband, a brother, and a son, was gone. His
Speaker 1: death was sudden, violent, and completely unexpected. His family was devastated.
Speaker 4: I no longer have a big brother.
Speaker 22: He called me biscuit head all my life because from
Speaker 22: a little kid, every time my mom would get up
Speaker 22: every morning to make fresh biscuits, I would be there
Speaker 22: as the baby. I got the first one, and so
Speaker 22: as I got older, he would then just call me biscuit.
Speaker 22: I won't get to hear that anymore.
Speaker 4: We won't get to.
Speaker 22: Laugh at him because he couldn't dance, but he tried.
Speaker 22: No more Christmas, no more birthdays, no more family gather
Speaker 22: his grandchildren.
Speaker 8: Well, no, yes, no children, fair, they don't have a
Speaker 8: bother anymore.
Speaker 1: After Kenneth had died, an autopsy was performed to determine
Speaker 1: the cause and manner of his death.
Speaker 8: And did you recover any projectiles from mister Harry's body.
Speaker 23: Yes, So the bullet traveled through the abdomen. It struck
Speaker 23: the small intestine, the large intestine, the colon, and the
Speaker 23: left hiding. Then it came to rest just beneath the
Speaker 23: skin of the left side of the back. It resulted
Speaker 23: in a massive loss of blood.
Speaker 8: And what was the called the death in mister Harry's
Speaker 8: case guns one of the abdomen And what was the
Speaker 8: matter of death in mister Herring's homicide?
Speaker 1: Kenneth Herring had been shot to death in his own
Speaker 1: truck on the side of a Clayton County highway. When
Speaker 1: police arrived, there was no mystery about who pulled the trigger.
Speaker 1: The shooter confessed right then and there.
Speaker 7: Did you do anything to see if you could determine
Speaker 7: who had fired a shot?
Speaker 21: Yes, I asked who shot him? And that's when Miss
Speaker 21: Payne stated I did, and handed me her firearm, her
Speaker 21: license and her Georgia concealed carry permit.
Speaker 1: The shooter was twenty one year old Hannah Payne. She
Speaker 1: had witnessed the initial traffic accident and when Kenneth fled,
Speaker 1: she made the fateful decision to follow him. When she
Speaker 1: first witnessed the crash, Hannah was on her way home
Speaker 1: from her job as a property manager.
Speaker 4: Typically I'm in the field.
Speaker 3: I go from property to property, either collecting rent, sometimes
Speaker 3: walking vacant and or abandoned apartments that could potentially be
Speaker 3: under construction. And I would show vacant apartments to potential renters.
Speaker 24: And because you were going to all these different places
Speaker 24: to meet people you don't know, did you do anything
Speaker 24: for your safety?
Speaker 3: I did?
Speaker 16: And what was that.
Speaker 3: I registered for a concealed carry permit, and when I
Speaker 3: received it, I purchased a firearm.
Speaker 1: Several hours after she admitted to shooting, Kenneth Andna sat
Speaker 1: down with Clayton County detectives. They wanted to hear her
Speaker 1: side of the story. According to Hannah, when she caught
Speaker 1: up to Kenneth, she got out of her jeep and
Speaker 1: approached the truck. She told him he needed to return
Speaker 1: to the scene of the crash. That's when she claimed
Speaker 1: Kenneth grabbed her wrist and tried pulling her into the
Speaker 1: truck through the driver's side window.
Speaker 19: We started along action f and when he pushed again
Speaker 19: that he ran into my tired I wasn't washing him,
Speaker 19: I was trying to avoid him, and he had.
Speaker 3: Driving along behind my shirt.
Speaker 1: Hannah told detectives that Kenneth grabbed and ripped at her
Speaker 1: shirt as she struggled to break free. As she fought back,
Speaker 1: Kenneth's truck lurched forward, crashing into her parked jeep.
Speaker 18: Black my shirt, someone grabbed. I don't, honestly, I don't.
Speaker 19: I know, I don't remember how myself culture.
Speaker 1: Hannah claimed she had no memory of actually pulling the trigger.
Speaker 1: As for the evidence, Hannah did have some minor bruising
Speaker 1: and scratches on her body, and her shirt was nearly
Speaker 1: torn in half, so there were signs of a struggle.
Speaker 1: But why would Kenneth attack her? Why would he try
Speaker 1: to drag her into his truck? Was he just a
Speaker 1: drunk and angry man that day or was there something
Speaker 1: else to this story?
Speaker 8: Now, when you made contact with the driver in the
Speaker 8: maroon truck, what were your observations of him physically.
Speaker 9: Physically the scene that he was again out of it,
Speaker 9: I like send loads of his eyes for a glassy effect,
Speaker 9: and again not being a professional adopt or anything just
Speaker 9: saying that was he going through a diabetic situation or whatever.
Speaker 9: I didn't smell any alcohol on a sort, but I
Speaker 9: just noticed that the gentleman.
Speaker 16: Was out of it.
Speaker 8: So you didn't smell an alcohol, No.
Speaker 3: I did not.
Speaker 1: A key witness to the initial traffic accident was an
Speaker 1: off duty correctional officer who happened to work at the
Speaker 1: jail house infirmary. When the officer observed Kenneth after the crash,
Speaker 1: he concluded fairly quickly that Kenneth wasn't drunk at all,
Speaker 1: but was suffering from some kind of medical emergency like
Speaker 1: diabetic shock.
Speaker 8: You notified Detective More that he was walking pretty normal,
Speaker 8: but he reminded you of a person like you would
Speaker 8: like from when I was working in the infirmary and stuff.
Speaker 8: These guys, you know when you're a diabetic and you
Speaker 8: go into shock and your mindset, you know, That's what
Speaker 8: it reminded me of. He kept asking me what day
Speaker 8: it was and stuff like that, and I said, okay, sir, yes,
Speaker 8: So based on your observation of mister Herring on that
Speaker 8: day and your experience in working in the infirmary at
Speaker 8: the drem Defirment of Corrections, did you believe mister Herring
Speaker 8: was having a suffering from a medical condition.
Speaker 16: Yes.
Speaker 1: Later on investigators did confirm that Kenneth was a diabetic
Speaker 1: and that he relied on insulin.
Speaker 7: And are you related to Kenneth Herring?
Speaker 25: Yes?
Speaker 7: And how were you related to Kenneth Harring? I'm his
Speaker 7: baby's sister. In the time that you spent around Kenneth,
Speaker 7: were you ever aware of any medical conditions that Kenneth had?
Speaker 7: I knew, I know that he was a diabetic severely.
Speaker 7: Were you aware of any type of medications or anything
Speaker 7: that he had to do in order to manage his
Speaker 7: severe diabetes?
Speaker 16: He was insulindependent.
Speaker 1: Although Kenneth's medical condition was clear, the autopsy couldn't confirm
Speaker 1: if he was suffering from diabetic shock at the time
Speaker 1: of his death.
Speaker 23: When a person dies, the blood sugar continues to be
Speaker 23: metabolized very very quickly.
Speaker 4: So even in a person whose blood sugar.
Speaker 23: Was normal at their time of death, that test would
Speaker 23: show low blood sugar.
Speaker 4: That's just the normal course of what we call post
Speaker 4: warning change.
Speaker 23: So if his blood sugar was already low, there's no
Speaker 23: way for me to differentiate if he had a low
Speaker 23: blood sugar at the time of death versus the normal
Speaker 23: postmar a lowering of the blood sugar.
Speaker 1: While the autopsy couldn't verify diabetic shock, it could reveal
Speaker 1: if Kenneth was intoxicated on the day he died.
Speaker 23: So the comprehensive blood screen at the Georgia Bureau Investigation
Speaker 23: tests for all the major and common drugs of abuse,
Speaker 23: and there are hundreds of different additional drugs that the
Speaker 23: panel covers.
Speaker 8: And you say everything was negative, yes, And what about
Speaker 8: the blood alcohol kind thing?
Speaker 4: It was negative as well.
Speaker 1: The results were clear kenneth hering was not high, he
Speaker 1: was not drunk, and it was likely that he'd been
Speaker 1: in a state of diabetic shock when he crashed. When
Speaker 1: Kenneth's wife was questioned, she gave a plausible explanation for
Speaker 1: why Kenneth fled the scene of the accident. You probably
Speaker 1: knew he needed medical attention, didn't have time to wait
Speaker 1: for an ambulance that never came.
Speaker 8: And I know he was having a diabetic episode because
Speaker 8: he don't just run off the scene.
Speaker 14: I knew he was trying to get to the hospital.
Speaker 1: With this new information and a pained self defense story
Speaker 1: started to crumble. Diabetic shock doesn't cause aggression. It usually
Speaker 1: causes dizziness, confusion, and also weakness. Also, Hannah's version of
Speaker 1: events didn't match what multiple witnesses saw that day.
Speaker 26: Was getting off work. As I was approaching Forest Parkway.
Speaker 26: I was making a lift off of Lott of Self Parkway.
Speaker 26: As I was making my left and getting into the
Speaker 26: far right lane, Miss Hannah was coming up Forest Parkway.
Speaker 26: She was coming from the end off of Highway to five,
Speaker 26: and she almost ran me off the row.
Speaker 4: She was speeding. She's going very fast.
Speaker 1: When Hannah chased after Kenneth, she didn't just follow him.
Speaker 1: She sped after him at a reckless pace, weaving in
Speaker 1: and out of traffic, nearly running other drivers off the road.
Speaker 1: When she caught up, she used a merging lane to
Speaker 1: block him. Kenneth was trapped. He had nowhere to go.
Speaker 4: And she blocked him from driving. So he about to
Speaker 4: be raped.
Speaker 7: And it caught my intention because it was like really
Speaker 7: at years, so it was just road rage at the time.
Speaker 4: And then had a woman.
Speaker 3: Popped out of the car and she said about the truck, do.
Speaker 4: You have a bunch of times.
Speaker 1: Several witnesses saw what happened next. They watched as Hannah
Speaker 1: got out of her jeep and aggressively approached Kenneth's window.
Speaker 26: I saw her at the driver's side door of the
Speaker 26: vehicle of yelling obscenities for the man, so get out
Speaker 26: of the car.
Speaker 4: And it was like she was trying to fight with
Speaker 4: the window.
Speaker 8: And when you say she was trying to fight him
Speaker 8: through the window, what did you actually see.
Speaker 4: I just saw her hand moving, you know, get out
Speaker 4: of the car, motherfucker doing all this.
Speaker 26: I never saw anyone's hands come out of the window, perfect,
Speaker 26: But I didn't see her at the window.
Speaker 17: She got out of her jeep and she immediately went
Speaker 17: to the truck driver's side yelling and beginning swinging and
Speaker 17: hitting the man that was in the driver's side.
Speaker 8: Of the truck.
Speaker 16: What anything did you hear her say?
Speaker 4: I heard her, so you can get the f out
Speaker 4: of the car.
Speaker 16: She just kept cussing.
Speaker 8: I don't get the f out of the car now.
Speaker 8: Were you able to see mister Harry inside of his
Speaker 8: vehicle during this incident?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 16: And what did you observe of mister Harry?
Speaker 4: He looked confused. Were you able to see what the driver,
Speaker 4: what the man in the truck was doing. Yeah, What
Speaker 4: could you see about him? He was sitting there.
Speaker 16: He getting raising the hands or anything. He was just
Speaker 16: sitting there.
Speaker 17: That's what made it got my attention because he wasn't reacting,
Speaker 17: So I thought that was kind of odd, just sitting
Speaker 17: there and allow somebody to punch.
Speaker 27: Him like that.
Speaker 7: Could you see any anything about the facial expressions or anything.
Speaker 9: Like that on the driver of the truck.
Speaker 16: He looked confused and shocked.
Speaker 1: According to multiple witnesses, Hannah Pane had recklessly chased down
Speaker 1: an older man. When she caught up to him, she
Speaker 1: blocked his truck and assaulted him.
Speaker 17: She was punching the man in the truck repeatedly because
Speaker 17: his window was down, and she just kept punching him
Speaker 17: over and over and over, and the truck tried to
Speaker 17: go forward and there was impact.
Speaker 1: Witnesses saw Hannah yelling and striking Kenneth when his truck
Speaker 1: suddenly lurched forward, slamming into her jeep. She must have
Speaker 1: been irate about that. The logical assumption is that Kenneth
Speaker 1: had put the truck in drive and hit the gas.
Speaker 1: Desperate to escape the enraged stranger shouting at him through
Speaker 1: his window, she backed away.
Speaker 17: I could see the gun on her heel, and she
Speaker 17: pulled the gun out after punching him repeatedly and asked
Speaker 17: him to get out of the car. She was pointing
Speaker 17: the gun at him, towing him to get out the car.
Speaker 4: Get out the car.
Speaker 19: She pulled out a gun and a lot of try
Speaker 19: so people we moved heavy honking to the head out
Speaker 19: of the way.
Speaker 4: Or what if anything else? Did you see her pull
Speaker 4: a gun? After she brought the gun, she shot him
Speaker 4: and she said, now you.
Speaker 16: Need an ambulance.
Speaker 1: After Kenneth's truck crashed into Hannah's cheap Hannah pulled out
Speaker 1: her gun and a single shot was fired. Soon after,
Speaker 1: one of the witnesses called nine one one.
Speaker 16: It was a morning light.
Speaker 12: And then she stopped im.
Speaker 28: Painting and went around him for no reason because it
Speaker 28: was coming. And then he almost hit her because he
Speaker 28: did that. So he breaks suddenly, but she got not
Speaker 28: hopped out her car, and then she poured out her
Speaker 28: gun and started screaming at him, and you know, like
Speaker 28: what the heck and student and she started hitting him.
Speaker 8: Okay, you said she pulled out a guy, Yes, she too.
Speaker 14: For time.
Speaker 5: She saw him.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately for Hannah, a key piece of evidence backed up
Speaker 1: the witnesses accounts. The entire time she was chasing Kenneth,
Speaker 1: Hannah was on the phone with a nine to one
Speaker 1: one dispatcher. There was recorded proof of her actions.
Speaker 16: Okay, so you couldn't get the same number.
Speaker 18: No, but I'm tating helping him right now.
Speaker 16: Okay, well, we actually do not want you to chase him.
Speaker 16: We just want need to be safe.
Speaker 18: Understand him, I understand.
Speaker 19: I'm just to get the pack number, nothing else, but
Speaker 19: I am going west down for Its Parkway and.
Speaker 4: Almost up to him.
Speaker 1: Hannah had gotten close enough to read Kenneth's license plate
Speaker 1: number to the dispatcher, but when the dispatcher told her
Speaker 1: to turn around and go back to the scene of
Speaker 1: the accident, she refused.
Speaker 8: If you can go back to that location where the
Speaker 8: incident happened, and because someone is baking on the way
Speaker 8: to you guys, now.
Speaker 18: Okay, well there's a police officer there, but he is drunk.
Speaker 3: I'm not.
Speaker 4: I'm not.
Speaker 15: I'm sorry that I'm here to tell you I'm not
Speaker 15: not gonna follow him because he is going to cause
Speaker 15: another accident.
Speaker 18: So I won't say behind him and tell an officer
Speaker 18: to get to us.
Speaker 4: You know, that's what I want.
Speaker 14: I want you guys to go back to his location
Speaker 14: where it happened, and an officer will be at them momentarily.
Speaker 16: Okay, I'm not.
Speaker 24: Ma'am.
Speaker 16: Ma'am, ma'am, Yeah, ma'am.
Speaker 18: He pulled the trigger of my gun in my hand.
Speaker 29: Why why ma'am.
Speaker 30: To follow him?
Speaker 16: Okay, you got the bag?
Speaker 15: Nowhere, there's a police officers down the street held her.
Speaker 6: Come up here now.
Speaker 16: He pulled the trigger off.
Speaker 1: My god, after he attacked me, he pulled the trigger
Speaker 1: of the gun in my hand. Okay, Karen. After Kenneth
Speaker 1: was shot, Hannah had the nerve to tell the dispatcher
Speaker 1: that Kenneth had shot himself with her gun. Imagine that.
Speaker 1: Moments later, she coldly told a bystander that she was fine,
Speaker 1: but that Kenneth wasn't.
Speaker 18: I didn't know he.
Speaker 1: Witnesses later described Hannah's demeanor after the shooting. They claimed
Speaker 1: that she was cold and actually seemed kind of proud
Speaker 1: of herself.
Speaker 30: And what was her doing here at that time?
Speaker 31: Calm like, oh.
Speaker 3: Like she don't know.
Speaker 4: There wasn't a lot of emotion.
Speaker 8: Now, what was the defendis demeanor? Immediately after the victim
Speaker 8: was shot.
Speaker 4: She had no real more. She was just like she
Speaker 4: was stunned out. She had no remorse at all.
Speaker 26: She was so right in that moment, she felt like
Speaker 26: she had done something.
Speaker 4: Now, after the victim was shot, what happened, Well, he just.
Speaker 26: Laid back and and see, uh, his eyes went white.
Speaker 4: He just laid back. She stood back.
Speaker 26: Somebody else's way down a police officer who was already exit.
Speaker 4: The officer came running up.
Speaker 8: He said, what happened?
Speaker 4: Who shot Akler?
Speaker 1: Hankles Hannah insisted that Kenneth grabs her gun and shot himself,
Speaker 1: but no one at the scene could confirm or deny
Speaker 1: that because nobody had a clear view of the weapon
Speaker 1: when it fired.
Speaker 4: And you know where the gun was based on your
Speaker 4: observation at that time.
Speaker 17: The gun was in her if I'm not mistaken, right in,
Speaker 17: but it was inside the truck, so of course of
Speaker 17: the door panel, I couldn't see what was going on.
Speaker 16: After she stuck it in.
Speaker 7: But when the gun, when you hear the gun shot.
Speaker 7: If I'm not, I just want to make sure I
Speaker 7: understand the hand or the arm with the gun was
Speaker 7: inside the truck.
Speaker 4: And here's ma'am.
Speaker 1: Despite her claims of self defense, and it's a woman,
Speaker 1: so they're always going to be claiming self defense. Hannah
Speaker 1: was ultimately arrested and charged with multiple crimes, including malice
Speaker 1: and fellow nee murder.
Speaker 32: Formally charged a grand jury indicting the woman accused of
Speaker 32: following a man involved in a hidden run, then killing
Speaker 32: him during a confrontation. Clayton County's district attorney says Hannah
Speaker 32: Payne was trying to act like the police when she
Speaker 32: fatally shot sixty two year old Kenneth Herring last month,
Speaker 32: a witness telling police he appeared to be suffering a
Speaker 32: medical emergency like diabetic shot pain. Indicted on malice and
Speaker 32: felony murder, she's claiming self defense.
Speaker 1: The COVID nineteen pandemic I know, I'm sick of talking
Speaker 1: about it too, I am, but it caused a massive
Speaker 1: court backlog across the entire country, and Clayton County was
Speaker 1: no exception. It took prosecution four years to bring Hannah
Speaker 1: Paine to trial. In the meantime, she remained out of
Speaker 1: jail on a one hundred thousand dollars bond, surrounded by
Speaker 1: family and friends who supported her.
Speaker 3: You know, you obviously got an outcome that you were
Speaker 3: looking for one hundred thousand dollars bond your reaction.
Speaker 4: I'm speechless.
Speaker 27: I'm just so glad you know that it and that way.
Speaker 27: I mean, we're sorry for what happened and everything regards
Speaker 27: to mister Herron's family and everything that Hannah is not
Speaker 27: the person that they are saying.
Speaker 16: She is not at all.
Speaker 27: She's the sweetest, most caring.
Speaker 13: What do you say you just mentioned about the family,
Speaker 13: mister Harring's family, what do you want.
Speaker 27: To say to them? I just wanted to say that
Speaker 27: this was an unfortunate, unfortunate situation that you know, turned
Speaker 27: out the way it did, but not at the hands
Speaker 27: of my daughter.
Speaker 1: What do you mean, though, at the answer of your daughter?
Speaker 1: Just it was not her fault, of course not. How
Speaker 1: could it possibly be? Your precious baby angels fall naturally?
Speaker 1: Kenneth Herring's family saw things a bit differently. After waiting
Speaker 1: years for justice, the frustration boiled over, and Kenneth's brother
Speaker 1: wrote a letter to the NAACP. Within that letter, he wrote,
Speaker 1: my brother Kenneth Herring was murdered in cold blood by
Speaker 1: Hannah Pain. This murderer is out on bond and has
Speaker 1: not been brought to justice. Eventually, the trial did begin.
Speaker 1: Hannah Payne faced eight felony charges, including malice murder, which
Speaker 1: could have put her in prison for life. A trial,
Speaker 1: and in a surprising move, Hannah took the witness stand.
Speaker 1: Staring directly at the jury. She told them her reasoning
Speaker 1: for why Kenneth Herring had to die. She said there
Speaker 1: was no choice, she had to save her own life.
Speaker 1: In December of twenty twenty three, after four years of delays,
Speaker 1: Hannah Payne's murder trial finally began. She faced eight felony charges,
Speaker 1: including malice murder, felony murder, false imprisonment, aggravated assault, and
Speaker 1: possession of a firearm during the commission of a felony.
Speaker 1: That last one seems a bit redundant, doesn't it. If convicted,
Speaker 1: the now twenty five year old woman could spend the
Speaker 1: rest of her life in prison without the possibility of parole.
Speaker 2: In twenty nineteen, Clayton County police a Payn shot and
Speaker 2: killed sixty two year old Kenneth Herring. Payne is accused
Speaker 2: of following hering after he left the scene of a
Speaker 2: crash where he reportedly hit a semi truck. Hearing was
Speaker 2: experiencing a medical emergency, which appeared to be diabetic shock.
Speaker 2: She allegedly confronted him and attempted to make a citizen's arrest.
Speaker 2: She's facing a number of charges, including malice and felony murder.
Speaker 1: Like any murder trial, the proceedings began with jury instructions,
Speaker 1: followed by the prosecution's opening statement.
Speaker 7: On May seven, a, two thousand nineteen.
Speaker 25: Pain had the audacity to chase, corner, detain, assault, shoot,
Speaker 25: and kill.
Speaker 7: An unarmed sixty two year old kid Herring who was
Speaker 7: sitting in his own car, all because.
Speaker 16: She didn't like his driving.
Speaker 1: From the start, prosecutors hammered home a key point, Hannah
Speaker 1: Paine had no business involving herself in the crash between
Speaker 1: Kenneth Herring and the semi truck driver. In fact, Hannah
Speaker 1: Paine had no business involving herself in many things, and
Speaker 1: neither do you. Ladies. Well you're an expert in geopolitics
Speaker 1: now just because you have a Facebook profile, go fuck
Speaker 1: yourself anyway. The accident had nothing to do with her,
Speaker 1: She had no right to intervene.
Speaker 10: And the defendant, even though it has the first accident,
Speaker 10: really didn't have very little to do with her.
Speaker 7: As the augacidy to get in her vehicle and chase him.
Speaker 7: The defendant is narrating what she's doing to the nine
Speaker 7: one one operator, who, of course, of course tell us
Speaker 7: the defendant, ma'am, don't chase him.
Speaker 16: That's not safe.
Speaker 3: Don't follow him.
Speaker 4: We don't need you to do that.
Speaker 7: But just defendant, as far as she was concerned, was
Speaker 7: the rightest.
Speaker 6: Person she knew, because she tells that NM one one operator, well,
Speaker 6: I'm not I'm not gonna follow him.
Speaker 16: So she's kind of backed off and just let it be.
Speaker 10: Nope, not good enough.
Speaker 4: And you will hear the.
Speaker 1: Defendant screaming, get out of the car, get out of
Speaker 1: the car, and.
Speaker 33: Witnesses will tell you that she jumps out and is
Speaker 33: going straight to his driver's side.
Speaker 25: But it turns out mister Harry's window is part of
Speaker 25: the way down and that this defendant is reaching in
Speaker 25: to where.
Speaker 16: Mister Kieran is sitting in the car.
Speaker 7: In the truck, the defendant reaching in and assaulting mister Karen,
Speaker 7: And while he's trying to deal with the defendant at
Speaker 7: his door, his car moves forward. And what happens.
Speaker 16: He said, hey, boss, and her gee.
Speaker 7: And once that happens, you'll hear an escalation.
Speaker 3: Of what she's saying.
Speaker 16: Get the fuck out of the.
Speaker 4: Car, Get the fuck out of the car. I will
Speaker 4: show you, I will show you.
Speaker 1: The prosecutors also wasted no time dismantling Hannah's version of events,
Speaker 1: implying that her explanation of what happened was absurd.
Speaker 10: And after she shoots him, she picks up the phone
Speaker 10: with another one opera one, no one, one Operator one.
Speaker 7: Ma'am, you're not supposed to follow him.
Speaker 10: She's gonna tell you the very first thing she said,
Speaker 10: he get my car.
Speaker 12: That's what she says.
Speaker 33: You will hear her tell you, in her own words,
Speaker 33: why she killed this man. Then she tells the number
Speaker 33: one operator, he pulled the trigger on my gun.
Speaker 16: And shot himself.
Speaker 7: That's the little you're gonna hear, trying to claim.
Speaker 11: This man.
Speaker 16: Would shoot him Siff.
Speaker 1: The defense, on the other hand, stood by Hannah's story.
Speaker 1: They insisted that Kenneth Herring had been the aggressor and
Speaker 1: that Hannah had no choice but to protect herself.
Speaker 34: And you will see teachers, and you will hook testimony,
Speaker 34: and you will see scratches all over her name, scratches
Speaker 34: on the her head, all these bruises on her face,
Speaker 34: These are evidentsts that are going to come in. These
Speaker 34: pictures weren't taking right after this, and you see her
Speaker 34: sure just completely wide open.
Speaker 1: To bolster their argument, the defense pointed out that Kenneth
Speaker 1: a handyman, at various tools in his truck, items that
Speaker 1: in theory, could have been used as weapons against Hannah.
Speaker 1: Yet that never happened.
Speaker 34: They're going to show you pictures of a knife, work
Speaker 34: tools that could be used aggressively to cause substantial, serious
Speaker 34: immediate home.
Speaker 1: The trial lasted five days. Witnesses, police officers, and forensic
Speaker 1: experts took the stand, laying out what they saw, heard,
Speaker 1: and uncovered. Much of the testimony supported the prosecution's case,
Speaker 1: painting Hannah as the aggressor. There was evidence of a struggle,
Speaker 1: but nothing to suggest that Kenneth Herring had attacked Hannah
Speaker 1: when she confronted him at his truck. Then Hannah took
Speaker 1: the stand.
Speaker 3: I was on my way home from work and I
Speaker 3: was coming up to an intersection where the light had
Speaker 3: just turned green.
Speaker 4: As I was getting ready to turn left, there was
Speaker 4: a semi that was turning right.
Speaker 3: Someone ran the red light and I watched him run
Speaker 3: right into the tractor trailer.
Speaker 4: I pulled off to the side and I got on
Speaker 4: the phone with nine to one one.
Speaker 1: Hannah began telling her side of the story, describing the
Speaker 1: traffic accident she witnessed and everything that unfolded after that.
Speaker 3: After that, we were kind of just standing there waiting
Speaker 3: for the police to arrive. And the other gentleman who
Speaker 3: had witnessed it walked over to us, and he introduced
Speaker 3: himself and said that he was a state officer, and
Speaker 3: he flashed his badge and said that he had checked
Speaker 3: on the other gentleman, and that was asking us, are
Speaker 3: we okay?
Speaker 4: Is everybody all right?
Speaker 1: One of the key witnesses to the accident was an
Speaker 1: off duty correctional officer named Terry Robinson. During her testimony,
Speaker 1: Hannah claimed that she'd been following the instructions of a
Speaker 1: man she assumed was a quote state officer.
Speaker 4: What I thought that we had.
Speaker 3: Learned was that the driver who had caused the original
Speaker 3: accident was potentially drunk. I noticed that's when he completely
Speaker 3: gets in his truck. He starts trying to turn it on,
Speaker 3: and you can hear him like revving it to get
Speaker 3: it to turn on and that's when he started to
Speaker 3: drive away. So I'm explaining to the dispatch what happened,
Speaker 3: and as he's pulling off, she's asking me, you know,
Speaker 3: was I able to get the time number? Realizing I
Speaker 3: wasn't able to. I was already at my vehicle and
Speaker 3: my completely got in my vehicle and went to go
Speaker 3: pull off, and at that time, the truck driver and
Speaker 3: the state officer was still standing over in the street,
Speaker 3: and he started waving me over, like calling me towards him.
Speaker 24: And when you got it close to him, what happened?
Speaker 4: I asked him? Did he go straight? And he said yes,
Speaker 4: and he's telling me he said.
Speaker 24: Go So at that time, you were under depression that
Speaker 24: he's a state officer sending you to get the tag
Speaker 24: and nil one knows that you're on the way to
Speaker 24: get the tag.
Speaker 4: Correct.
Speaker 1: After Kenneth had fled the scene, Terry Robinson instructed Hannah
Speaker 1: to follow Kenneth. And this fact was not disputed, and.
Speaker 35: That was you in there saying go good, go corright, yes, okay,
Speaker 35: I was directed clearly to misstaining right.
Speaker 4: Yes, And you didn't see.
Speaker 35: Her after that because she's going to get a picture
Speaker 35: of the attack, right, yes, said do you never said
Speaker 35: anything about please don't pursue, or you never said anything like, hey,
Speaker 35: d say.
Speaker 3: Don't do this.
Speaker 9: I said, you get the picture of the attack, and
Speaker 9: you said go go good gum, she's going to get
Speaker 9: a picture of attack.
Speaker 1: Well, Terry may have been in the wrong to encourage
Speaker 1: Hannah to pursue Kenneth. One thing was certain. You never
Speaker 1: told her to run him off the road and shoot him.
Speaker 4: Not to.
Speaker 1: I mentionine the fact that just because you're female doesn't
Speaker 1: mean you don't have autonomy and can't make your own decisions.
Speaker 1: You know, why are you always acting like victims. Hannah's
Speaker 1: decision to chase him was her own, despite what anybody
Speaker 1: else told her. Nonetheless, Hannah's testimony continued, all.
Speaker 24: Right, so then now you're you're going in the direction
Speaker 24: they pointed you, and you're on the phone in nine
Speaker 24: to one. One was nine to one saying anything.
Speaker 4: I was just there was kind of silence from the
Speaker 4: time that she had.
Speaker 3: Initially asked me if I had got the tag. I
Speaker 3: was still kind of getting my bearings, and I just
Speaker 3: started repeating to her, telling her, Okay, you know he's
Speaker 3: going down.
Speaker 4: Clark Howell or Forest Parkway.
Speaker 24: So you never heard them give a warning of not
Speaker 24: to chase.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 1: This was a damning moment at trial and frankly a
Speaker 1: boneheaded move by the defense when prompted by her own attorney,
Speaker 1: and it claims she hadn't heard the nine one one
Speaker 1: dispatcher tell her not to chase Kenneth, but the recorded
Speaker 1: call told a different story.
Speaker 16: Okay, so you couldn't get a tang number.
Speaker 18: No, but I'm puting helping him right now.
Speaker 16: Okay, man, we actually do not want you to chase him.
Speaker 13: Would need to.
Speaker 16: I understand, I'm your and we hear the tack number.
Speaker 1: If nothing else, the dispatcher's words were crystal clear, do
Speaker 1: not chase. Hannah had even responded saying that she one
Speaker 1: hundred percent understood before outright refusing to obey. Y'all ever
Speaker 1: heard that word obey might be a new one for you.
Speaker 23: I'm not.
Speaker 18: I'm sorry that I'm here to tell you. I'm not
Speaker 18: not going to follow him.
Speaker 15: Because he is going to call another actor, so I
Speaker 15: won't stay behind him and coming officers we.
Speaker 16: Get to us.
Speaker 1: Hannah's testimony continued. She went on to explain her actions
Speaker 1: when she confronted Kenneth.
Speaker 7: At that point is.
Speaker 3: When we had both come up to the intersection and
Speaker 3: I saw him stopped in the toning lane, so I
Speaker 3: turned as well. And when I stopped, I was under
Speaker 3: the impression, with me having nine one one on the phone,
Speaker 3: that I could just be kind of like a messenger.
Speaker 3: So I took my phone on speaker and I took
Speaker 3: it to him to show him that I had the
Speaker 3: police on the phone, and I'm telling him they want
Speaker 3: us to go back to the original accident site.
Speaker 1: Hannah tried to present herself as a good Samaritan, but
Speaker 1: the nine one one recording contradicted this. She had been aggressive,
Speaker 1: barking orders at an older man who was likely in
Speaker 1: the midst of a medical emergency. Granted, she didn't know
Speaker 1: Kenneth's condition and assumed he was drunk, but even so
Speaker 1: there was no justification for her to chase him down
Speaker 1: and confront him.
Speaker 3: But as I got closer, I heard him asking me
Speaker 3: who the f are you? And I told him that
Speaker 3: I was nobody, but that I had the police on
Speaker 3: the phone and that they wanted us to go back
Speaker 3: to the original absent say. Apparently I was close enough
Speaker 3: for him to reach out the car and he knocked
Speaker 3: my phone out of my hand and he grabbed me.
Speaker 4: By my wrist and he pulled me into the vehicle.
Speaker 1: Hannah claimed Kenneth attacked her and tried to pull her
Speaker 1: into his truck. If that was true, a point the
Speaker 1: prosecution strongly doubted, Hannah was clearly the one who escalated
Speaker 1: the situation. Legally, whatever action Kenneth took at that point
Speaker 1: didn't matter.
Speaker 7: The indication is as from all of the witnesses were
Speaker 7: asked her demeanor aggressive aggressive, very aggressive. Once she is
Speaker 7: noted as the initial aggressor, as the aggressor on seeing
Speaker 7: nothing that mister Harring done did is relevant.
Speaker 1: Despite the prosecution's argument, Hannah stuck to her story. She
Speaker 1: insisted that she'd been trying to protect herself.
Speaker 3: He was pulling my wrists and he pulled me in
Speaker 3: the vehicle, and he kept yelling at me, telling me
Speaker 3: I have something for you, bitch.
Speaker 4: And he's leaning and he's reaching and he's pulling, and
Speaker 4: at this point I remember that time.
Speaker 3: I remember that he had let go of my wrist
Speaker 3: and he grabbed me by the back of my neck,
Speaker 3: and it was as if he was trying to kind
Speaker 3: of keep a hold of me, I'm telling him to
Speaker 3: let me go, and.
Speaker 4: That's when he hits the gas and we go forward.
Speaker 4: I'm stealing the car.
Speaker 3: At this point, while it may have been a few
Speaker 3: steps or a few feet, when you are being held
Speaker 3: against your will and you have no idea what's ahead
Speaker 3: of you and you're looking down, it felt like it
Speaker 3: lasted forever.
Speaker 1: Here we go with the tears. Of course, kind of
Speaker 1: goes on to tell the jury that after Kenneth's truck
Speaker 1: lurched forward and crashed into her precious jeep, Kenneth attempted
Speaker 1: to take Hannah's gun and now suddenly she's being held
Speaker 1: against her will. The irony, What the fuck was she
Speaker 1: doing there? Anyway? This eternal victimhood, it's fucking exhausting.
Speaker 3: He grabbed my hand with the gun in it. He's
Speaker 3: pulling at it. He's pulling at it, and I'm just
Speaker 3: yelling at him to stop. As he's turning it towards
Speaker 3: like that way. I'm being pulled and pulled, and I
Speaker 3: can feel myself like pressing up against the car, like
Speaker 3: my face is up against the door, and as.
Speaker 4: He's pulling it is when it they should kind of
Speaker 4: went on Okay, having.
Speaker 24: Gone to that situation and Q are in court, is
Speaker 24: there anything you've learned from this situation that sticks in
Speaker 24: your mind.
Speaker 11: That not everybody is going to have a reaction that
Speaker 11: you think they're going to have, and it clearly trying
Speaker 11: to do the right thing, it's not the right answer.
Speaker 1: Jeezus freaking did the concept of minding your own business
Speaker 1: ever crossed your mind, Hannah? I mean, why would it?
Speaker 1: Hannah claimed that she had been simply trying to do
Speaker 1: the right thing, but in the end, it was Kenneth
Speaker 1: who was to blame for what happened. For Kenneth's family,
Speaker 1: who were sitting in the courtroom listening to Hannah's words
Speaker 1: was unbearable.
Speaker 7: How was that?
Speaker 9: I mean, for them to bring forth that type of defense.
Speaker 16: What did you think about that?
Speaker 36: I think it's selfish to blame the victim, and I
Speaker 36: thought it was heartless when all accounts said the aggressive
Speaker 36: and then to blame a victim of the person.
Speaker 29: That you calls it must have been tough to sit
Speaker 29: through that.
Speaker 9: It was very tough.
Speaker 1: Next up, the prosecution cross examined Hannah, which was a
Speaker 1: bit of a disaster for the.
Speaker 8: Defense, and you also testified today that you never heard that. Now,
Speaker 8: will one dispatch give you a warning that chase you?
Speaker 4: I never said that.
Speaker 3: I said that she told me that she wanted me
Speaker 3: to be safe, and I said that from what I
Speaker 3: took it as was that she didn't want me to chase.
Speaker 3: And when I explained to her, I wasn't chasing. I
Speaker 3: was just simply saying with him until a police.
Speaker 21: Officer could get to us.
Speaker 8: And then now on one dispatch indicated to you approximately
Speaker 8: four times to either not chase mister heron and go
Speaker 8: back to the scene.
Speaker 3: Correct, incorrect. I only heard it one time, and she
Speaker 3: told me not to chase to be safe. She never
Speaker 3: told me to go back to the scene until after
Speaker 3: I had told her that I was behind him and
Speaker 3: that she wanted me to be safe, and in doing so,
Speaker 3: she said that she wanted both of us.
Speaker 11: To go back.
Speaker 1: Hanna's explanation of the nine one one call was a
Speaker 1: word salad, mess rambling, contradictory, and unluckly to convince the
Speaker 1: jury of anything other than she was an idiot. You
Speaker 1: only heard her tell you to stop chasing once, but
Speaker 1: then she told you again to stop chasing and go
Speaker 1: back to the scene. After you told her that you
Speaker 1: were behind him. What we what what are you even saying, lady, Oh,
Speaker 1: that's right, it's never my fault. I see, makes sense.
Speaker 8: And the dispatcher tells you, okay, ma'am, we actually do
Speaker 8: not want you to chase him. We just want you
Speaker 8: to be safe. The first time, they tell you not
Speaker 8: to chase him. Correct, she didn't tell.
Speaker 3: Me not to.
Speaker 4: She just said that they didn't want me to because
Speaker 4: of my safety. At least it's the way that I interpreted.
Speaker 8: Okay, I'll give you that. So they told you that
Speaker 8: they do not want you to chase him. Correct, Correct,
Speaker 8: And the dispatcher tells you after that it's not safe
Speaker 8: to chase him.
Speaker 4: Second time.
Speaker 3: Correct, that's what the transcripts guns said. When we're listening
Speaker 3: to it, I don't remember hearing that.
Speaker 8: And once she gets the tag number from you, she
Speaker 8: tells you, okay, so if you could go back to
Speaker 8: that location where the didn't happen, because someone is actually
Speaker 8: on the way to you guys, now, is that correct?
Speaker 4: Correct?
Speaker 8: That's the third time she's telling you to not continue
Speaker 8: to follow mister Herring and go back to the location.
Speaker 8: And the dispatcher tells you after that you know, that's
Speaker 8: what I want. I want you guys to go back
Speaker 8: to the location where it happened, and an officer would
Speaker 8: be out there momentarily. So that's the fourth time.
Speaker 1: She's telling you again after going over the nine when
Speaker 1: one call. Prosecutor then turned to what happened after Hannah
Speaker 1: blocked Kenneth's truck.
Speaker 8: Now you testified that you walked up to him. Does
Speaker 8: it sound like you described it calmly telling him that
Speaker 8: the nine one one dispatch wanted him to go back
Speaker 8: to the scene, correct, and telling him calmly that you
Speaker 8: were on the phone of nine one one.
Speaker 4: I mean you say calmly? Do you mean like was
Speaker 4: I irate or was I louder?
Speaker 8: That she's your testimony today that you did not get
Speaker 8: out of your vehicle run up to mister Herring's vehicle
Speaker 8: telling him to get out of the car. Correct, And
Speaker 8: you never once got out of your vehicle and go
Speaker 8: up to him and tell him to get out of.
Speaker 16: The fucking car.
Speaker 4: Where everyone heard I did.
Speaker 8: And so at no point on the now one one
Speaker 8: tape did you ever tell him to stop I go
Speaker 8: back to the scene. I did, And did you hear
Speaker 8: that on the now one one.
Speaker 4: Conveniently.
Speaker 22: No.
Speaker 1: The prosecutor's argument was simple. Hannah had no legal right
Speaker 1: to chase Kenneth. She had no reason to confront him
Speaker 1: at all, and the only reason a man was dead
Speaker 1: was because of the choices she made on that day.
Speaker 8: So, in the initial incident, your vehicle was not struck correct, correct,
Speaker 8: and so there was no reason for you to interject
Speaker 8: yourself in the final inclusion of what happened with mister Herring.
Speaker 8: As far as that incident was concerned.
Speaker 3: There's a lot that led up to that. So for
Speaker 3: me to have introducted myself to begin with was me
Speaker 3: doing something that I would have wanted someone else to
Speaker 3: do for me, which was to be a witness for
Speaker 3: what I thought was an accident.
Speaker 8: I talked about the fact that it could have been
Speaker 8: avoided had you not attempted to, I guess, assist or help.
Speaker 8: But this actually could have been avoided if you not
Speaker 8: had introduced a gun into this incident.
Speaker 4: Correct. I introduced the gun to try and save my life.
Speaker 4: Nothing further on.
Speaker 1: Hannah's decision to testify didn't do her any favors, but
Speaker 1: given how much evidence was stacked against her, she really
Speaker 1: didn't have much of a choice. Maybe a white girl
Speaker 1: crying on the stand would sway a dumb juror or two. Finally,
Speaker 1: after days of testimony, the trial drew to a close
Speaker 1: and both sides delivered their closing arguments.
Speaker 37: The defendant had multiple opportunities to do something else, to
Speaker 37: go back to the incident location, to go back home,
Speaker 37: not pursuit.
Speaker 4: This had nothing to do with her.
Speaker 37: You can't poke a bear and then when the bear
Speaker 37: turns around and attack, you want to claim self defense.
Speaker 4: It doesn't work that way. And you know how much
Speaker 4: entitlement you have to have.
Speaker 8: To chase somebody down, detain them, jump out your car.
Speaker 7: And run toward a stranger.
Speaker 8: He didn't know her, he didn't know why she was
Speaker 8: approaching his car.
Speaker 29: And demand that they do anything.
Speaker 8: He didn't have to listen to her, He didn't have
Speaker 8: to do anything.
Speaker 16: She said.
Speaker 8: Audacity to come here and take that stand and blame
Speaker 8: everybody else.
Speaker 1: The prosecution argued the obvious Hannah should have minded her
Speaker 1: own business. The world would be a much better place
Speaker 1: if more of y'all out there. Yeah, you, the one's
Speaker 1: listening right now, minded your own fucking business. The defense
Speaker 1: counter claiming that Hannah was young, naive, and simply trying
Speaker 1: to do the right thing. But how many times have
Speaker 1: we heard that before, not understanding.
Speaker 16: What could happen because she's never been in there.
Speaker 35: She's twenty one years old, never be.
Speaker 4: In a situation like that.
Speaker 24: Her mind.
Speaker 34: She's a young individual.
Speaker 16: Trying to help out.
Speaker 7: This is not a killer.
Speaker 4: There is not some nerve.
Speaker 35: This is a young girl I got caught up the
Speaker 35: wrong situations of a good heart and good attention.
Speaker 1: The jury had two versions of Hannah pain to consider.
Speaker 1: The defense portrayed her as a well intentioned, but naive
Speaker 1: young woman. The prosecution painted her as an entitled and
Speaker 1: smug karen who took the law into her own hands
Speaker 1: and ended up killing an innocent man. In the end,
Speaker 1: it was the jury's job to decide which version of
Speaker 1: Hannah was the truth, and it only took him about
Speaker 1: two hours to make that decision.
Speaker 21: More breaking news, this time out of Clayton County, where
Speaker 21: we just heard hours ago, a jury return a verdict
Speaker 21: in the murder trial of Hannah Payne.
Speaker 7: The panel deliberated for a little more than two hours,
Speaker 7: unanimously finding her guilty on all eight counts.
Speaker 1: Say it with me, guilty on all counts for Kenneth
Speaker 1: Herring's family, justice had finally been served.
Speaker 30: When I heard the first verdict, I know we wasn't
Speaker 30: supposed to show sign, but tears start rolling down my
Speaker 30: face because at that moment I failed on relief that
Speaker 30: came over and from the first to the second to
Speaker 30: all the way to the eighth, all I could say
Speaker 30: was thank you, thank you.
Speaker 16: Thank you.
Speaker 24: Well.
Speaker 1: This trout remained focused on the evidence. The court of
Speaker 1: public opinion, of course, was much messier. Because Hannah was
Speaker 1: a white woman who shot a black man. Many on
Speaker 1: social media, you know, the shit stain that it is,
Speaker 1: were quick to label her actions as racially motivated. The
Speaker 1: prosecutors rejected this theory outright because the evidence just didn't
Speaker 1: support it. Besides, Hannah had previously dated a black man,
Speaker 1: her current boyfriend was Dominican, and her best friend since
Speaker 1: childhood was a black woman. All accounts, Hannah had a
Speaker 1: diverse circle of friends. In fact, she must have felt
Speaker 1: bulletproof anyway.
Speaker 23: For the state.
Speaker 1: Racism and hatred were never a factor in this case.
Speaker 1: That's just social media horseshit by other Karens with nothing
Speaker 1: better to do.
Speaker 29: I think people are under the misconception that it was race.
Speaker 29: We never ever bought race into this matter. As I
Speaker 29: told y'all when she was convicted the other night, that
Speaker 29: was too simple to say that it was black and white.
Speaker 29: You know, we sat in our office for four years,
Speaker 29: we were having these these discussions and trying to figure
Speaker 29: out why. Only Hannah Payne knows why she did it.
Speaker 29: But the fact that the certain things that we knew,
Speaker 29: that she knew, she had an African American boyfriend, you know,
Speaker 29: so that automatically throws out, you know, hate out there.
Speaker 24: You know, race, We will never know.
Speaker 29: We will never know because she never really told us
Speaker 29: the truth on the stand. That story kept change.
Speaker 1: The district attorney put it bluntly, only Hannah Payne knew
Speaker 1: why she did what she did, but one could argue
Speaker 1: that maybe even she didn't fully understand. The people closest
Speaker 1: to her certainly struggled to make sense of what happened.
Speaker 1: Her friends and family were stunned when they learned about it.
Speaker 1: Those who knew Hannah swore she was one of the
Speaker 1: kindest people they'd ever met. At Hannah's sentencing hearing, several
Speaker 1: of them spoke on her behalf.
Speaker 29: Pyne was in tears at times as her loved ones
Speaker 29: talked about the person they knew her to be.
Speaker 31: I have witnessed her servant's heart more times than I
Speaker 31: could be permitted to talk about today. Over the course
Speaker 31: of time, I have consistently witnessed Hannah opening doors for others,
Speaker 31: always express thank yous without hesitation, to step in and
Speaker 31: offer assistance whenever and wherever needed. If you've ever had
Speaker 31: a moment where you need to lift a heavy item
Speaker 31: into your car and a stranger walked up without being
Speaker 31: asked and offered to help.
Speaker 4: You, this could have been Hannah.
Speaker 31: If you've ever seen a person ask for money on
Speaker 31: the street and a person give it freely because they care.
Speaker 4: That may also have been Hannah.
Speaker 31: If you have ever seen a stray animal walking too
Speaker 31: close along a roadway and a total stranger stopped to
Speaker 31: render help, that also was likely Hannah. And not once,
Speaker 31: not ever, have I ever witnessed her be the slightest unkind.
Speaker 1: The murder of Kenneth Herring wasn't the work of a
Speaker 1: cold blooded killer, but rather several moments where someone's worst
Speaker 1: instincts took over. Hannah pain allowed her inner monster to
Speaker 1: win and because of that a father, a husband, a brother,
Speaker 1: and a son lost his life. But what made things
Speaker 1: even worse was what came next. Rather than take responsibility,
Speaker 1: Hannah took her case to trial, trying to convince the
Speaker 1: jury that her murder victim attacked her and that he
Speaker 1: had shot himself. Her lack of remorse spoke volumes. One
Speaker 1: of the nicest people you've ever met. You say, huh,
Speaker 1: that's interesting. She continued to allow the monster to win,
Speaker 1: adding to the suffering she had already caused that sentencing.
Speaker 1: Kenneth's family understandably pleaded for the maximum punishment.
Speaker 29: The prosecution and defense both presented witnesses, among them Herring's relatives.
Speaker 30: I'll never see my brother again, only through pictures, the
Speaker 30: same sentence that she gave him.
Speaker 4: Like to see the same sentence given to her.
Speaker 1: Kenneth's family and the prosecution pushed for life without parole
Speaker 1: will the defense pleaded for life with the possibility of parole. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: the judge chose the latter, but also ordered that some
Speaker 1: of Hannah's additional charges would run consecutively to her life sentence.
Speaker 4: Miss pain is.
Speaker 29: Going away for life with the possibility of parole for
Speaker 29: those of you who do not understand what life, what
Speaker 29: the possibility of parole means. It means in thirty years
Speaker 29: that will be the first time and she will be
Speaker 29: able to come up for parole.
Speaker 4: But she's got an additional thirteen years. She's a twenty
Speaker 4: five year old woman.
Speaker 29: I'm not good with math, but thirty plus thirteen would
Speaker 29: put her somewhere around seventy eight years old before she
Speaker 29: could possibly get.
Speaker 16: Out of jail.
Speaker 1: Hannah Payne was not a career criminal. She wasn't a
Speaker 1: hardened killer by all accounts. She was a decent, an
Speaker 1: ordinary young woman living an ordinary life until the day
Speaker 1: she wasn't until the day she got so gassed up
Speaker 1: that she thought she was batman. That day, a mix
Speaker 1: of arrogance, self righteousness, and adrenaline pushed her past the
Speaker 1: point of no return. Women don't seem to do well
Speaker 1: with adrenaline. Men live with it. Born in darkness, molded
Speaker 1: by it. In Hannah's immature mind, she was a hero,
Speaker 1: an enforcer of justice, a caped crusader, and a jeep wrangler.
Speaker 1: Do you hear how dumb that sounds? But justice was
Speaker 1: never hers to deliver? And then chasing a moment of control,
Speaker 1: which is all it was. She destroyed countless lives, including
Speaker 1: her own. She lost everything. One pull of a trigger
Speaker 1: was all it took for an ordinary woman to become
Speaker 1: a murderer. The line between man and monster isn't as
Speaker 1: thick as we'd like to think. It's fucking scary. It
Speaker 1: can happen in an instant to you, to me, or
Speaker 1: anyone else for that matter, when we're least expecting it.
Speaker 1: Sometimes all it takes to cross over that line is
Speaker 1: the wrong belief that you're on the right side. All right, ladies,
Speaker 1: I think I've beaten you up enough today. He's so abusive,
Speaker 1: So why don't you mind your own business and head
Speaker 1: on over to swordscale dot com and until next week,
Speaker 1: stay say