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Speaker 1: Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is

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not intended for all audiences.

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Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 3: He was pulling my wrists, and he pulled me in

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the vehicle, and he's reaching and he's pulling.

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Speaker 4: When you are being held against your.

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Speaker 3: Will and you have no idea what's ahead of you,

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it felt like it lasted forever.

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Speaker 1: Oh boy, you guys not gonna like this one. The

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misogyny does run thick here at Sword Scale Enjoy. There

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is a line between a man and a monster. And

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when I say man, I'm also obviously talking about you. Ladies.

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You're not immune from this, But that line is thinner

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than we'd like to believe. Most people will never cross it,

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living their lives without ever feeling the sharp edge of

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true darkness. But under the right or perhaps the wrong circumstances,

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even the most ordinary person can unravel. Just look at

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my Facebook feed. A moment of rage, desperation, or even

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fear can crack something deep inside, something buried, unleashing a

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version of themselves they never thought possible. Not every killer

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is born a monster. Some are made shaped by pressure,

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by pain, by a perfect storm of events that turn

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any human into something unrecognizable. That's the whole point we've

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been trying to make here for eleven years. It's not

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about true crime, it's about human nature, what makes you tick,

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and once that line is crossed, there is no going back.

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Speaker 5: Well, I would like to say on May seven, twenty nineteen,

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I had no idea that when I called my brother

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that I would be inundated with phone calls from law

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enforcement from Clayton County, Georgia. I immediately panicked and feared

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the worst. I had no intention on answering those calls.

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Due to fear, I answered the phone by mistake, and

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within five minutes my wife called me and told me

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there was a deputy at the house to see me.

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My life from that point has never been the same.

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The following day, I found myself repeating to my wife,

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I do not know how I'm going to tell my

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parents or explain to them how this happened.

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Speaker 1: The voice you just heard belonged to a man named

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Keith Herring. He was speaking about an incident involving his

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older brother, Kenneth. On the evening of May seventh, twenty nineteen,

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sixty two year old Kenneth Herring was driving on a

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busy Highway in Clayton County near Hartsfield Jackson International Airport

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in Atlanta, an airport I know very very well at

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some point he drove into an intersection that he shouldn't have.

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Speaker 6: The story begins with Kenneth Harry and his car driving

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them all and there's pretty much no doubt that he

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runs a red black near Forest Parkway through Riverdale Road

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when he runs that red light, and another tractor trailer

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were coming toward that intercession, and mister Herring hits the

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trailer and everybody pulls off.

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Speaker 7: To the side to deal with the fact that there's

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just been a traffic accident.

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Speaker 1: Several other motorists saw the crash unfold and some pulled

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over to help, including Georgia Correctional officer named Terry Robinson.

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Speaker 8: Did you witness a vehicle collision on May nineteen, Yes, ma'am?

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And where did that collision occur?

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Speaker 9: Clark Howell and Forest Parkway. As we were approaching the light,

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the light was green. The vehicles were turning to the

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left and the truck I know, was turning right. All

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of a sudden, I've seen this room vehicle come famn.

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He decided the truck.

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Speaker 1: Jerry Robinson wasn't on duty at the time. He wasn't

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a traffic copper Highway patrolman neither, but as a correctional officer,

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he took it upon himself to control the scene until

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the proper authorities could get there.

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Speaker 8: Now, what damages did you observe to the red maroon

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truck after the accident?

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Speaker 9: The front end of the heavily damage radiator forward, all

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water for leaking out, and everything was heavily damage to

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the front. Because I was thinking that this can not

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go anywhere, I assumed that, hey, the vehicle was disabled.

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Speaker 1: The pickup truck was wrecked, practically totaled. As for Kenneth Herring,

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he didn't appear to be injured, but he was somewhat dazed,

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and that's all.

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Speaker 9: The gentleman's kind of slumped over a little bit. That's

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what made me pull over to see if heels okay,

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and I when I got a car, that's when I

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asked the gentleman's okay, and then just basically making sure

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that the gentleman's okay, that's when I called nine one one.

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Speaker 1: Kenneth was responsive, but there clearly was something wrong with

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him and he was possibly drunk. After checking on Kenneth's

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well being, Terry Robinson called for help.

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Speaker 10: As it so happens that just happened to be one

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of the worst traffic days in that area.

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Speaker 11: Too.

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Speaker 7: Any file was shut.

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Speaker 4: Down because a battery.

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Speaker 10: Trump had called on fire, So law enforcement is kind

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of blocking the entrance.

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Speaker 6: And exits for two eighty five. And then there's another

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accident somewhere else in that area.

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Speaker 10: So traffic is piled up, cars everywhere, no one can

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really get anywhere, and it's taking law enforcement a few

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moments to get to the sea.

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Speaker 1: More than twenty minutes had passed since Terry called nine

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to one one, No cops or emergency services had arrived,

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So Terry called again.

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Speaker 12: Clay in County nine one one, what is the location

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of your emergency carcle and Forest Corporate is being a

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rare call earlier though we had been over right twenty

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minutes round and.

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Speaker 13: Or no Hamlett that's thrown up. It's this location. And

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I can say the ball, a Rady coder and a

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semi tractor truck and none has told up at this

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moment of time.

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Speaker 14: Okay, I just get a call.

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Speaker 3: We already had someone on the way.

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Speaker 1: The dispatcher assured Terry that help was on the way. Meanwhile,

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another witness to the crash also called.

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Speaker 7: Nine one one Clayton County.

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Speaker 12: Now one one one is the location of your emergency? Yes, Pam,

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I'm w on Forest Parkway and Clark Howell Highway and.

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Speaker 15: There was just an accident.

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Speaker 14: I'm sure they've already called, but I was just I

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just witnessed it, and I just wanted to make sure that.

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Speaker 13: I, I guess called the police as well.

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Speaker 16: In case they didn't.

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Speaker 4: What were the kind of vehicles?

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Speaker 13: And Vogue, It's a red Dodge pickup truck.

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Speaker 14: I think it's a Dakota ver and a semi was

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involved and the red Dakota of brandy red light and

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plammed into the side of the semi.

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Speaker 12: Okay, and what's your name?

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Speaker 8: Funny ms Hannah Anna last name, It's Payne p A.

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Speaker 16: Y n E.

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Speaker 1: Terry and the other witness continued to wait. As they did,

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they noticed something strange. Kenneth Herring had climbed out of

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his truck and began aimlessly wandering around.

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Speaker 10: Mister Harry appeared somewhat confused after the accident, kept saying.

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Speaker 4: Who hit me?

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Speaker 10: What's happening things along those lines, and then started saying

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things like I didn't do anything wrong.

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Speaker 1: Kenneth wandered in circles a few times. Then he got

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back behind the wheel of his truck and tried to

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restart the engine.

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Speaker 9: He got back into the truck when I'm calling. He

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got through the truck and I said, well, sir, you

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okay like that, and he's I'm ready to go, like

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I said, so you can't go anywhere. You know, I

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can't go anywhere, And all of a sudden he turned

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on the vehicle and I'm like, well, sir, you can't

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do anything. You can't move, you can't move, and that's

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when he put it in, put it in a dry

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and floored it.

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Speaker 1: Kenneth sped off Terry, while still on the phone with

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the nine to one one dispatcher, watched as the damaged

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pickup disappeared down the highway.

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Speaker 13: The reason why I'm answering man, because this is the

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drama who called the accident. I think he's uncared. Uh,

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something's going on with him, and so the thing, if

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I were trying to tell him, was a turn of

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the gas off from the most He's not following the

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name so that's why I'm master. If he's moving it here,

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he's going to drive off. Man, he's driving off. He's

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driving off. Take a picture of driving like.

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Speaker 17: Take a picture.

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Speaker 13: Quack quick, wait wait quick, he's driving off. He's driving off. Yeah,

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he's heading for a s he's heading for Riverdale Road.

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He has the all the black gentleman, gray hair, blue

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shirt on and front end damage, heaving the front end

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damage in front. Tame lead. I knew he was coming

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wrong with it, gay, I knew it.

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Speaker 1: As Kenneth had fled the scene, the other witness, Hannah Pain,

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didn't hesitate. She jumped into her jeep Wrangler and took

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off after him.

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Speaker 13: Okay, good, cool, God, Now I love the driver who

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was and she's going to take a picture of hoping

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that the lady. The lady in the street was almost

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in the recident. So she turned around and she went

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after him. So she's going to take a picture of

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the three ears and stuff.

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Speaker 1: As Hannah pursued Kenneth, she stayed on the phone with

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the nine to one one dispatcher and relayed his movements.

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Speaker 16: Now one one with the location of.

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Speaker 18: Yes, ma'am, I'm on cars Powell.

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Speaker 16: It's Worth Parkway, the section I actually.

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Speaker 14: Called twenty minutes ago for an accident, and no one

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has done up yet.

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Speaker 18: But I am running the intension that the guy that

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caused the accident, he ran the red bike, is drunk and.

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Speaker 13: He got me back in his car and he's looking

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like he's trying to drive away.

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Speaker 16: Hey, can you get a sad humper.

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Speaker 15: Hold on driving away? Her shots Dakota Hold, Okay, so

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he is going we down park No.

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Speaker 19: Sorry, now Court Parkway.

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Speaker 16: So you couldn't get the same number.

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Speaker 18: No, but I'm patting helping him right now.

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Speaker 1: Hannah followed Kenneth and eventually caught up to him. What

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happened next left several other drivers stunned and horrified.

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Speaker 7: Now did you see any sort of struggle between the

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driver of the car that she's standing at in this pain? Yes, okay,

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describe what you.

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Speaker 16: Saw, just like a little pushing back and forth.

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Speaker 4: What else happens next?

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Speaker 20: I ended up pulling on my phone and record. Honestly,

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I ain't to say it like this, but that was

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like another dig in Clayton County. And as I was recording,

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I heard a gunshot.

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Speaker 1: On May seventh, twenty nineteen, a gunshot echoed through the

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traffic on Riverdale Road in Clayton County, Georgia. Drivers hit

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their brakes, their heads whipping towards a sound. At first,

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it seemed like just another case of road rage until

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they saw the blood. Someone was shot, someone was dying.

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On the evening of May seventh, twenty nineteen, sixty two

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year old Kenneth Herring caused a traffic accident on a

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busy highway in Clayton County, Georgia. He ran a red light,

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driving his pickup truck headfirst into the side of a

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tractor trailer. The semi driver was unharmed, but witnesses noticed

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something about Kenneth, something off. He seemed confused, maybe even drunk.

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Among those who stopped to help was an off duty

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correctional officer named Terry Robinson. Was the vehicle operable at

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the time.

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Speaker 9: It wasn't good law, but we see it happened that

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he was leaving to turn it on and leave the scene.

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Speaker 10: He realized at some point mister Robson did that, mister

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Harry kind of circling his vehicle.

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Speaker 7: He didn't know what's going on. He might end in

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his car and drive somewhere.

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Speaker 10: I think he's going to leave the state, And sure enough,

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mister Harry does get in his vehicle and he did

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try it.

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Speaker 1: About twenty minutes after the accident, Kenneth did something unexpected.

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He climbed back into his truck and sped away. A

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short time later, and just a couple of miles down

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the road, a frantic driver flagged down a police sergeant.

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Speaker 21: Yes, I was flagged down by a citizen that informed

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me there had in a vehicle accident and someone.

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Speaker 4: Had been shot.

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Speaker 7: When you first arrived, kind of describe what you initially see.

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Speaker 21: There's a large crowd of people, obviously the two vehicles

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that appeared to have collided, and there were other vehicles

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pulled over to the side to I guess assist with

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the situation, and multiple witnesses pointing to a red pickup

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truck and that the man inside had been shot.

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Speaker 1: The officer was directed to Kenneth's truck. Inside, Kenneth was unresponsive,

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slumped in the driver's seat, bleeding from a gunshot wound

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to his abdomen.

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Speaker 3: And what did you do?

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Speaker 21: We're trying to identify where his gunshot wound was and

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basically what was going on with him as long as

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trying to get the driver's side door open.

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Speaker 7: And was a paramedics or empty or an ambulance?

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Speaker 4: Requested, Yes, they were?

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Speaker 7: And were there also civilians assisting you with mister Herring? Yes,

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before the paramedics arrived. Did mister Herring ever say anything

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while you were there?

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Speaker 1: When paramedics arrived at the scene, they rushed Kenneth to

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the hospital, but it was too late. Kenneth Herring, a father,

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a husband, a brother, and a son, was gone. His

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death was sudden, violent, and completely unexpected. His family was devastated.

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Speaker 4: I no longer have a big brother.

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Speaker 22: He called me biscuit head all my life because from

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a little kid, every time my mom would get up

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every morning to make fresh biscuits, I would be there

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as the baby. I got the first one, and so

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as I got older, he would then just call me biscuit.

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I won't get to hear that anymore.

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Speaker 4: We won't get to.

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Speaker 22: Laugh at him because he couldn't dance, but he tried.

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No more Christmas, no more birthdays, no more family gather

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his grandchildren.

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Speaker 8: Well, no, yes, no children, fair, they don't have a

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bother anymore.

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Speaker 1: After Kenneth had died, an autopsy was performed to determine

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the cause and manner of his death.

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Speaker 8: And did you recover any projectiles from mister Harry's body.

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Speaker 23: Yes, So the bullet traveled through the abdomen. It struck

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the small intestine, the large intestine, the colon, and the

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left hiding. Then it came to rest just beneath the

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skin of the left side of the back. It resulted

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in a massive loss of blood.

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Speaker 8: And what was the called the death in mister Harry's

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case guns one of the abdomen And what was the

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matter of death in mister Herring's homicide?

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Speaker 1: Kenneth Herring had been shot to death in his own

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truck on the side of a Clayton County highway. When

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police arrived, there was no mystery about who pulled the trigger.

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The shooter confessed right then and there.

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Speaker 7: Did you do anything to see if you could determine

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who had fired a shot?

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00:18:25,079 --> 00:18:27,400
Speaker 21: Yes, I asked who shot him? And that's when Miss

284
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,160
Payne stated I did, and handed me her firearm, her

285
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license and her Georgia concealed carry permit.

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Speaker 1: The shooter was twenty one year old Hannah Payne. She

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had witnessed the initial traffic accident and when Kenneth fled,

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she made the fateful decision to follow him. When she

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first witnessed the crash, Hannah was on her way home

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from her job as a property manager.

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Speaker 4: Typically I'm in the field.

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Speaker 3: I go from property to property, either collecting rent, sometimes

293
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,880
walking vacant and or abandoned apartments that could potentially be

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under construction. And I would show vacant apartments to potential renters.

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Speaker 24: And because you were going to all these different places

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to meet people you don't know, did you do anything

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for your safety?

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Speaker 3: I did?

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Speaker 16: And what was that.

300
00:19:20,759 --> 00:19:26,000
Speaker 3: I registered for a concealed carry permit, and when I

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received it, I purchased a firearm.

302
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Speaker 1: Several hours after she admitted to shooting, Kenneth Andna sat

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down with Clayton County detectives. They wanted to hear her

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side of the story. According to Hannah, when she caught

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up to Kenneth, she got out of her jeep and

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approached the truck. She told him he needed to return

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to the scene of the crash. That's when she claimed

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Kenneth grabbed her wrist and tried pulling her into the

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truck through the driver's side window.

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Speaker 19: We started along action f and when he pushed again

311
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:07,799
that he ran into my tired I wasn't washing him,

312
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I was trying to avoid him, and he had.

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Speaker 3: Driving along behind my shirt.

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Speaker 1: Hannah told detectives that Kenneth grabbed and ripped at her

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shirt as she struggled to break free. As she fought back,

316
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Kenneth's truck lurched forward, crashing into her parked jeep.

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Speaker 18: Black my shirt, someone grabbed. I don't, honestly, I don't.

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Speaker 19: I know, I don't remember how myself culture.

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Speaker 1: Hannah claimed she had no memory of actually pulling the trigger.

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As for the evidence, Hannah did have some minor bruising

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and scratches on her body, and her shirt was nearly

322
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torn in half, so there were signs of a struggle.

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But why would Kenneth attack her? Why would he try

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to drag her into his truck? Was he just a

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drunk and angry man that day or was there something

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else to this story?

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Speaker 8: Now, when you made contact with the driver in the

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maroon truck, what were your observations of him physically.

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Speaker 9: Physically the scene that he was again out of it,

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I like send loads of his eyes for a glassy effect,

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00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,680
and again not being a professional adopt or anything just

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saying that was he going through a diabetic situation or whatever.

333
00:21:33,799 --> 00:21:37,799
I didn't smell any alcohol on a sort, but I

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just noticed that the gentleman.

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Speaker 16: Was out of it.

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Speaker 8: So you didn't smell an alcohol, No.

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Speaker 3: I did not.

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00:21:44,759 --> 00:21:47,799
Speaker 1: A key witness to the initial traffic accident was an

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00:21:47,839 --> 00:21:50,440
off duty correctional officer who happened to work at the

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00:21:50,519 --> 00:21:54,839
jail house infirmary. When the officer observed Kenneth after the crash,

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he concluded fairly quickly that Kenneth wasn't drunk at all,

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but was suffering from some kind of medical emergency like

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diabetic shock.

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Speaker 8: You notified Detective More that he was walking pretty normal,

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but he reminded you of a person like you would

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like from when I was working in the infirmary and stuff.

347
00:22:13,799 --> 00:22:15,920
These guys, you know when you're a diabetic and you

348
00:22:16,039 --> 00:22:18,920
go into shock and your mindset, you know, That's what

349
00:22:19,039 --> 00:22:21,599
it reminded me of. He kept asking me what day

350
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it was and stuff like that, and I said, okay, sir, yes,

351
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So based on your observation of mister Herring on that

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day and your experience in working in the infirmary at

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00:22:31,839 --> 00:22:36,359
the drem Defirment of Corrections, did you believe mister Herring

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00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,720
was having a suffering from a medical condition.

355
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Speaker 16: Yes.

356
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Speaker 1: Later on investigators did confirm that Kenneth was a diabetic

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and that he relied on insulin.

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Speaker 7: And are you related to Kenneth Herring?

359
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:50,559
Speaker 25: Yes?

360
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Speaker 7: And how were you related to Kenneth Harring? I'm his

361
00:22:53,519 --> 00:22:58,640
baby's sister. In the time that you spent around Kenneth,

362
00:22:59,279 --> 00:23:03,759
were you ever aware of any medical conditions that Kenneth had?

363
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:09,640
I knew, I know that he was a diabetic severely.

364
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,440
Were you aware of any type of medications or anything

365
00:23:13,519 --> 00:23:15,799
that he had to do in order to manage his

366
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severe diabetes?

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Speaker 16: He was insulindependent.

368
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Speaker 1: Although Kenneth's medical condition was clear, the autopsy couldn't confirm

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if he was suffering from diabetic shock at the time

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of his death.

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Speaker 23: When a person dies, the blood sugar continues to be

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00:23:31,759 --> 00:23:33,960
metabolized very very quickly.

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Speaker 4: So even in a person whose blood sugar.

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Speaker 23: Was normal at their time of death, that test would

375
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show low blood sugar.

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Speaker 4: That's just the normal course of what we call post

377
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:48,039
warning change.

378
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,519
Speaker 23: So if his blood sugar was already low, there's no

379
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,000
way for me to differentiate if he had a low

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00:23:55,079 --> 00:23:59,279
blood sugar at the time of death versus the normal

381
00:23:59,519 --> 00:24:02,000
postmar a lowering of the blood sugar.

382
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:07,400
Speaker 1: While the autopsy couldn't verify diabetic shock, it could reveal

383
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,640
if Kenneth was intoxicated on the day he died.

384
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:16,319
Speaker 23: So the comprehensive blood screen at the Georgia Bureau Investigation

385
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:21,119
tests for all the major and common drugs of abuse,

386
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,440
and there are hundreds of different additional drugs that the

387
00:24:26,799 --> 00:24:27,680
panel covers.

388
00:24:28,839 --> 00:24:34,319
Speaker 8: And you say everything was negative, yes, And what about

389
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:35,880
the blood alcohol kind thing?

390
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 4: It was negative as well.

391
00:24:38,519 --> 00:24:42,599
Speaker 1: The results were clear kenneth hering was not high, he

392
00:24:42,759 --> 00:24:45,759
was not drunk, and it was likely that he'd been

393
00:24:45,839 --> 00:24:50,000
in a state of diabetic shock when he crashed. When

394
00:24:50,079 --> 00:24:53,720
Kenneth's wife was questioned, she gave a plausible explanation for

395
00:24:53,839 --> 00:24:57,799
why Kenneth fled the scene of the accident. You probably

396
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,400
knew he needed medical attention, didn't have time to wait

397
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,519
for an ambulance that never came.

398
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 8: And I know he was having a diabetic episode because

399
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:08,279
he don't just run off the scene.

400
00:25:08,279 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 14: I knew he was trying to get to the hospital.

401
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,599
Speaker 1: With this new information and a pained self defense story

402
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:19,720
started to crumble. Diabetic shock doesn't cause aggression. It usually

403
00:25:19,839 --> 00:25:24,559
causes dizziness, confusion, and also weakness. Also, Hannah's version of

404
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:27,519
events didn't match what multiple witnesses saw that day.

405
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,599
Speaker 26: Was getting off work. As I was approaching Forest Parkway.

406
00:25:31,599 --> 00:25:33,960
I was making a lift off of Lott of Self Parkway.

407
00:25:34,759 --> 00:25:37,039
As I was making my left and getting into the

408
00:25:37,079 --> 00:25:41,799
far right lane, Miss Hannah was coming up Forest Parkway.

409
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,519
She was coming from the end off of Highway to five,

410
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,319
and she almost ran me off the row.

411
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Speaker 4: She was speeding. She's going very fast.

412
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: When Hannah chased after Kenneth, she didn't just follow him.

413
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She sped after him at a reckless pace, weaving in

414
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,880
and out of traffic, nearly running other drivers off the road.

415
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,880
When she caught up, she used a merging lane to

416
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:11,559
block him. Kenneth was trapped. He had nowhere to go.

417
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 4: And she blocked him from driving. So he about to

418
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:16,599
be raped.

419
00:26:17,319 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 7: And it caught my intention because it was like really

420
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,960
at years, so it was just road rage at the time.

421
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,839
Speaker 4: And then had a woman.

422
00:26:26,799 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 3: Popped out of the car and she said about the truck, do.

423
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:33,279
Speaker 4: You have a bunch of times.

424
00:26:34,599 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 1: Several witnesses saw what happened next. They watched as Hannah

425
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,480
got out of her jeep and aggressively approached Kenneth's window.

426
00:26:43,279 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 26: I saw her at the driver's side door of the

427
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,319
vehicle of yelling obscenities for the man, so get out

428
00:26:49,319 --> 00:26:49,599
of the car.

429
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,079
Speaker 4: And it was like she was trying to fight with

430
00:26:52,279 --> 00:26:52,680
the window.

431
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,519
Speaker 8: And when you say she was trying to fight him

432
00:26:55,559 --> 00:26:57,319
through the window, what did you actually see.

433
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 4: I just saw her hand moving, you know, get out

434
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,119
of the car, motherfucker doing all this.

435
00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:06,759
Speaker 26: I never saw anyone's hands come out of the window, perfect,

436
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,079
But I didn't see her at the window.

437
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 17: She got out of her jeep and she immediately went

438
00:27:14,039 --> 00:27:19,759
to the truck driver's side yelling and beginning swinging and

439
00:27:20,319 --> 00:27:22,960
hitting the man that was in the driver's side.

440
00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 8: Of the truck.

441
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,559
Speaker 16: What anything did you hear her say?

442
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:27,799
Speaker 4: I heard her, so you can get the f out

443
00:27:27,839 --> 00:27:28,160
of the car.

444
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:29,279
Speaker 16: She just kept cussing.

445
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,079
Speaker 8: I don't get the f out of the car now.

446
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,720
Were you able to see mister Harry inside of his

447
00:27:34,839 --> 00:27:36,000
vehicle during this incident?

448
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:36,599
Speaker 3: Yes?

449
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 16: And what did you observe of mister Harry?

450
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:45,279
Speaker 4: He looked confused. Were you able to see what the driver,

451
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,839
what the man in the truck was doing. Yeah, What

452
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,599
could you see about him? He was sitting there.

453
00:27:51,559 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 16: He getting raising the hands or anything. He was just

454
00:27:53,519 --> 00:27:54,000
sitting there.

455
00:27:54,279 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 17: That's what made it got my attention because he wasn't reacting,

456
00:27:58,039 --> 00:27:59,799
So I thought that was kind of odd, just sitting

457
00:27:59,839 --> 00:28:01,480
there and allow somebody to punch.

458
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 27: Him like that.

459
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,319
Speaker 7: Could you see any anything about the facial expressions or anything.

460
00:28:07,079 --> 00:28:08,599
Speaker 9: Like that on the driver of the truck.

461
00:28:08,799 --> 00:28:10,559
Speaker 16: He looked confused and shocked.

462
00:28:11,759 --> 00:28:16,319
Speaker 1: According to multiple witnesses, Hannah Pane had recklessly chased down

463
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,480
an older man. When she caught up to him, she

464
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,160
blocked his truck and assaulted him.

465
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,759
Speaker 17: She was punching the man in the truck repeatedly because

466
00:28:25,799 --> 00:28:28,680
his window was down, and she just kept punching him

467
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,880
over and over and over, and the truck tried to

468
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,319
go forward and there was impact.

469
00:28:36,559 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: Witnesses saw Hannah yelling and striking Kenneth when his truck

470
00:28:40,759 --> 00:28:45,279
suddenly lurched forward, slamming into her jeep. She must have

471
00:28:45,359 --> 00:28:50,119
been irate about that. The logical assumption is that Kenneth

472
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,680
had put the truck in drive and hit the gas.

473
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,440
Desperate to escape the enraged stranger shouting at him through

474
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,359
his window, she backed away.

475
00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:04,359
Speaker 17: I could see the gun on her heel, and she

476
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,480
pulled the gun out after punching him repeatedly and asked

477
00:29:08,599 --> 00:29:10,599
him to get out of the car. She was pointing

478
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,440
the gun at him, towing him to get out the car.

479
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:13,039
Speaker 4: Get out the car.

480
00:29:14,319 --> 00:29:17,079
Speaker 19: She pulled out a gun and a lot of try

481
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,440
so people we moved heavy honking to the head out

482
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:22,839
of the way.

483
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 4: Or what if anything else? Did you see her pull

484
00:29:26,519 --> 00:29:29,759
a gun? After she brought the gun, she shot him

485
00:29:29,759 --> 00:29:30,400
and she said, now you.

486
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 16: Need an ambulance.

487
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,359
Speaker 1: After Kenneth's truck crashed into Hannah's cheap Hannah pulled out

488
00:29:36,359 --> 00:29:40,599
her gun and a single shot was fired. Soon after,

489
00:29:41,079 --> 00:29:43,000
one of the witnesses called nine one one.

490
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 16: It was a morning light.

491
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:45,839
Speaker 12: And then she stopped im.

492
00:29:45,759 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 28: Painting and went around him for no reason because it

493
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,839
was coming. And then he almost hit her because he

494
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,240
did that. So he breaks suddenly, but she got not

495
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,559
hopped out her car, and then she poured out her

496
00:29:57,599 --> 00:29:59,240
gun and started screaming at him, and you know, like

497
00:29:59,279 --> 00:30:02,720
what the heck and student and she started hitting him.

498
00:30:03,559 --> 00:30:09,119
Speaker 8: Okay, you said she pulled out a guy, Yes, she too.

499
00:30:09,279 --> 00:30:09,839
Speaker 14: For time.

500
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 5: She saw him.

501
00:30:15,799 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 1: Unfortunately for Hannah, a key piece of evidence backed up

502
00:30:20,119 --> 00:30:24,640
the witnesses accounts. The entire time she was chasing Kenneth,

503
00:30:24,799 --> 00:30:27,000
Hannah was on the phone with a nine to one

504
00:30:27,039 --> 00:30:31,799
one dispatcher. There was recorded proof of her actions.

505
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,119
Speaker 16: Okay, so you couldn't get the same number.

506
00:30:35,279 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 18: No, but I'm tating helping him right now.

507
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,079
Speaker 16: Okay, well, we actually do not want you to chase him.

508
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,599
We just want need to be safe.

509
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 18: Understand him, I understand.

510
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 19: I'm just to get the pack number, nothing else, but

511
00:30:52,039 --> 00:30:56,319
I am going west down for Its Parkway and.

512
00:30:58,599 --> 00:30:59,839
Speaker 4: Almost up to him.

513
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: Hannah had gotten close enough to read Kenneth's license plate

514
00:31:04,519 --> 00:31:07,759
number to the dispatcher, but when the dispatcher told her

515
00:31:07,799 --> 00:31:09,519
to turn around and go back to the scene of

516
00:31:09,559 --> 00:31:12,400
the accident, she refused.

517
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 8: If you can go back to that location where the

518
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,200
incident happened, and because someone is baking on the way

519
00:31:19,279 --> 00:31:20,400
to you guys, now.

520
00:31:21,119 --> 00:31:24,839
Speaker 18: Okay, well there's a police officer there, but he is drunk.

521
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:25,279
Speaker 3: I'm not.

522
00:31:25,599 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 4: I'm not.

523
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 15: I'm sorry that I'm here to tell you I'm not

524
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,279
not gonna follow him because he is going to cause

525
00:31:31,319 --> 00:31:31,920
another accident.

526
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:33,759
Speaker 18: So I won't say behind him and tell an officer

527
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:34,559
to get to us.

528
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 4: You know, that's what I want.

529
00:31:36,039 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 14: I want you guys to go back to his location

530
00:31:37,759 --> 00:31:41,119
where it happened, and an officer will be at them momentarily.

531
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:46,279
Speaker 16: Okay, I'm not.

532
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 24: Ma'am.

533
00:32:03,079 --> 00:32:15,839
Speaker 16: Ma'am, ma'am, Yeah, ma'am.

534
00:32:16,559 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 18: He pulled the trigger of my gun in my hand.

535
00:32:19,279 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 29: Why why ma'am.

536
00:32:23,319 --> 00:32:24,039
Speaker 30: To follow him?

537
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:27,319
Speaker 16: Okay, you got the bag?

538
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:32,359
Speaker 15: Nowhere, there's a police officers down the street held her.

539
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 6: Come up here now.

540
00:32:34,119 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 16: He pulled the trigger off.

541
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,279
Speaker 1: My god, after he attacked me, he pulled the trigger

542
00:32:39,519 --> 00:32:44,599
of the gun in my hand. Okay, Karen. After Kenneth

543
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,440
was shot, Hannah had the nerve to tell the dispatcher

544
00:32:48,559 --> 00:32:53,599
that Kenneth had shot himself with her gun. Imagine that.

545
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,359
Moments later, she coldly told a bystander that she was fine,

546
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,640
but that Kenneth wasn't.

547
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 18: I didn't know he.

548
00:33:08,559 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: Witnesses later described Hannah's demeanor after the shooting. They claimed

549
00:33:12,759 --> 00:33:16,359
that she was cold and actually seemed kind of proud

550
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:17,400
of herself.

551
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,039
Speaker 30: And what was her doing here at that time?

552
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 31: Calm like, oh.

553
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:26,079
Speaker 3: Like she don't know.

554
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:29,039
Speaker 4: There wasn't a lot of emotion.

555
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 8: Now, what was the defendis demeanor? Immediately after the victim

556
00:33:33,759 --> 00:33:34,039
was shot.

557
00:33:34,119 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 4: She had no real more. She was just like she

558
00:33:36,599 --> 00:33:40,119
was stunned out. She had no remorse at all.

559
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 26: She was so right in that moment, she felt like

560
00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:44,400
she had done something.

561
00:33:45,599 --> 00:33:50,079
Speaker 4: Now, after the victim was shot, what happened, Well, he just.

562
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 26: Laid back and and see, uh, his eyes went white.

563
00:33:54,839 --> 00:33:58,519
Speaker 4: He just laid back. She stood back.

564
00:33:59,079 --> 00:34:02,319
Speaker 26: Somebody else's way down a police officer who was already exit.

565
00:34:02,839 --> 00:34:04,079
Speaker 4: The officer came running up.

566
00:34:04,119 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 8: He said, what happened?

567
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 4: Who shot Akler?

568
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 1: Hankles Hannah insisted that Kenneth grabs her gun and shot himself,

569
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,039
but no one at the scene could confirm or deny

570
00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:18,079
that because nobody had a clear view of the weapon

571
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:19,079
when it fired.

572
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 4: And you know where the gun was based on your

573
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:22,760
observation at that time.

574
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,639
Speaker 17: The gun was in her if I'm not mistaken, right in,

575
00:34:26,679 --> 00:34:28,400
but it was inside the truck, so of course of

576
00:34:28,519 --> 00:34:30,360
the door panel, I couldn't see what was going on.

577
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:31,320
Speaker 16: After she stuck it in.

578
00:34:31,599 --> 00:34:34,199
Speaker 7: But when the gun, when you hear the gun shot.

579
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:35,800
If I'm not, I just want to make sure I

580
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,039
understand the hand or the arm with the gun was

581
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:40,079
inside the truck.

582
00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:40,760
Speaker 4: And here's ma'am.

583
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,079
Speaker 1: Despite her claims of self defense, and it's a woman,

584
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:49,039
so they're always going to be claiming self defense. Hannah

585
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:54,079
was ultimately arrested and charged with multiple crimes, including malice

586
00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:55,320
and fellow nee murder.

587
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,280
Speaker 32: Formally charged a grand jury indicting the woman accused of

588
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,239
following a man involved in a hidden run, then killing

589
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,079
him during a confrontation. Clayton County's district attorney says Hannah

590
00:35:06,119 --> 00:35:08,559
Payne was trying to act like the police when she

591
00:35:08,679 --> 00:35:11,679
fatally shot sixty two year old Kenneth Herring last month,

592
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,480
a witness telling police he appeared to be suffering a

593
00:35:14,559 --> 00:35:18,760
medical emergency like diabetic shot pain. Indicted on malice and

594
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,280
felony murder, she's claiming self defense.

595
00:35:22,639 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: The COVID nineteen pandemic I know, I'm sick of talking

596
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:30,239
about it too, I am, but it caused a massive

597
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,360
court backlog across the entire country, and Clayton County was

598
00:35:34,519 --> 00:35:38,480
no exception. It took prosecution four years to bring Hannah

599
00:35:38,519 --> 00:35:42,599
Paine to trial. In the meantime, she remained out of

600
00:35:42,679 --> 00:35:46,559
jail on a one hundred thousand dollars bond, surrounded by

601
00:35:46,679 --> 00:35:48,719
family and friends who supported her.

602
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,039
Speaker 3: You know, you obviously got an outcome that you were

603
00:35:51,079 --> 00:35:53,639
looking for one hundred thousand dollars bond your reaction.

604
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:57,280
Speaker 4: I'm speechless.

605
00:35:57,519 --> 00:36:01,159
Speaker 27: I'm just so glad you know that it and that way.

606
00:36:01,519 --> 00:36:05,559
I mean, we're sorry for what happened and everything regards

607
00:36:05,599 --> 00:36:09,519
to mister Herron's family and everything that Hannah is not

608
00:36:09,679 --> 00:36:11,119
the person that they are saying.

609
00:36:11,199 --> 00:36:12,519
Speaker 16: She is not at all.

610
00:36:12,679 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 27: She's the sweetest, most caring.

611
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,639
Speaker 13: What do you say you just mentioned about the family,

612
00:36:17,679 --> 00:36:19,000
mister Harring's family, what do you want.

613
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 27: To say to them? I just wanted to say that

614
00:36:21,079 --> 00:36:25,280
this was an unfortunate, unfortunate situation that you know, turned

615
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,679
out the way it did, but not at the hands

616
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:28,280
of my daughter.

617
00:36:29,159 --> 00:36:30,519
Speaker 1: What do you mean, though, at the answer of your daughter?

618
00:36:31,199 --> 00:36:35,599
Just it was not her fault, of course not. How

619
00:36:35,639 --> 00:36:40,440
could it possibly be? Your precious baby angels fall naturally?

620
00:36:40,519 --> 00:36:44,800
Kenneth Herring's family saw things a bit differently. After waiting

621
00:36:45,039 --> 00:36:50,079
years for justice, the frustration boiled over, and Kenneth's brother

622
00:36:50,159 --> 00:36:54,519
wrote a letter to the NAACP. Within that letter, he wrote,

623
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,559
my brother Kenneth Herring was murdered in cold blood by

624
00:36:58,599 --> 00:37:03,199
Hannah Pain. This murderer is out on bond and has

625
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,519
not been brought to justice. Eventually, the trial did begin.

626
00:37:08,599 --> 00:37:13,719
Hannah Payne faced eight felony charges, including malice murder, which

627
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,000
could have put her in prison for life. A trial,

628
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:21,119
and in a surprising move, Hannah took the witness stand.

629
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:26,239
Staring directly at the jury. She told them her reasoning

630
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:31,679
for why Kenneth Herring had to die. She said there

631
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:36,719
was no choice, she had to save her own life.

632
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,239
In December of twenty twenty three, after four years of delays,

633
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:11,400
Hannah Payne's murder trial finally began. She faced eight felony charges,

634
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:16,360
including malice murder, felony murder, false imprisonment, aggravated assault, and

635
00:38:16,519 --> 00:38:19,719
possession of a firearm during the commission of a felony.

636
00:38:20,679 --> 00:38:24,760
That last one seems a bit redundant, doesn't it. If convicted,

637
00:38:25,159 --> 00:38:27,239
the now twenty five year old woman could spend the

638
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,159
rest of her life in prison without the possibility of parole.

639
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,639
Speaker 2: In twenty nineteen, Clayton County police a Payn shot and

640
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,239
killed sixty two year old Kenneth Herring. Payne is accused

641
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,400
of following hering after he left the scene of a

642
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,280
crash where he reportedly hit a semi truck. Hearing was

643
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:48,079
experiencing a medical emergency, which appeared to be diabetic shock.

644
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,840
She allegedly confronted him and attempted to make a citizen's arrest.

645
00:38:52,639 --> 00:38:56,280
She's facing a number of charges, including malice and felony murder.

646
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 1: Like any murder trial, the proceedings began with jury instructions,

647
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,400
followed by the prosecution's opening statement.

648
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,639
Speaker 7: On May seven, a, two thousand nineteen.

649
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 25: Pain had the audacity to chase, corner, detain, assault, shoot,

650
00:39:19,599 --> 00:39:20,360
and kill.

651
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 7: An unarmed sixty two year old kid Herring who was

652
00:39:26,519 --> 00:39:30,639
sitting in his own car, all because.

653
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 16: She didn't like his driving.

654
00:39:34,199 --> 00:39:38,679
Speaker 1: From the start, prosecutors hammered home a key point, Hannah

655
00:39:38,679 --> 00:39:41,679
Paine had no business involving herself in the crash between

656
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:46,280
Kenneth Herring and the semi truck driver. In fact, Hannah

657
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,639
Paine had no business involving herself in many things, and

658
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,159
neither do you. Ladies. Well you're an expert in geopolitics

659
00:39:53,199 --> 00:39:56,559
now just because you have a Facebook profile, go fuck

660
00:39:56,599 --> 00:40:00,519
yourself anyway. The accident had nothing to do with her,

661
00:40:01,599 --> 00:40:04,079
She had no right to intervene.

662
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 10: And the defendant, even though it has the first accident,

663
00:40:07,559 --> 00:40:09,400
really didn't have very little to do with her.

664
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:16,199
Speaker 7: As the augacidy to get in her vehicle and chase him.

665
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,519
The defendant is narrating what she's doing to the nine

666
00:40:20,519 --> 00:40:26,599
one one operator, who, of course, of course tell us

667
00:40:26,599 --> 00:40:29,519
the defendant, ma'am, don't chase him.

668
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:31,519
Speaker 16: That's not safe.

669
00:40:32,679 --> 00:40:33,519
Speaker 3: Don't follow him.

670
00:40:33,519 --> 00:40:34,760
Speaker 4: We don't need you to do that.

671
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 7: But just defendant, as far as she was concerned, was

672
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:39,639
the rightest.

673
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 6: Person she knew, because she tells that NM one one operator, well,

674
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,119
I'm not I'm not gonna follow him.

675
00:40:47,639 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 16: So she's kind of backed off and just let it be.

676
00:40:52,079 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 10: Nope, not good enough.

677
00:40:55,159 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 4: And you will hear the.

678
00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: Defendant screaming, get out of the car, get out of

679
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:02,599
the car, and.

680
00:41:02,679 --> 00:41:05,280
Speaker 33: Witnesses will tell you that she jumps out and is

681
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:06,840
going straight to his driver's side.

682
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 25: But it turns out mister Harry's window is part of

683
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,639
the way down and that this defendant is reaching in

684
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:15,480
to where.

685
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 16: Mister Kieran is sitting in the car.

686
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 7: In the truck, the defendant reaching in and assaulting mister Karen,

687
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:26,880
And while he's trying to deal with the defendant at

688
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:32,280
his door, his car moves forward. And what happens.

689
00:41:33,519 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 16: He said, hey, boss, and her gee.

690
00:41:36,599 --> 00:41:39,599
Speaker 7: And once that happens, you'll hear an escalation.

691
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:40,079
Speaker 3: Of what she's saying.

692
00:41:40,639 --> 00:41:41,679
Speaker 16: Get the fuck out of the.

693
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,280
Speaker 4: Car, Get the fuck out of the car. I will

694
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,079
show you, I will show you.

695
00:41:49,519 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 1: The prosecutors also wasted no time dismantling Hannah's version of events,

696
00:41:54,599 --> 00:41:58,280
implying that her explanation of what happened was absurd.

697
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:03,039
Speaker 10: And after she shoots him, she picks up the phone

698
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,320
with another one opera one, no one, one Operator one.

699
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 7: Ma'am, you're not supposed to follow him.

700
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:12,760
Speaker 10: She's gonna tell you the very first thing she said,

701
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:14,239
he get my car.

702
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:16,559
Speaker 12: That's what she says.

703
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 33: You will hear her tell you, in her own words,

704
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,000
why she killed this man. Then she tells the number

705
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,320
one operator, he pulled the trigger on my gun.

706
00:42:28,639 --> 00:42:29,599
Speaker 16: And shot himself.

707
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,039
Speaker 7: That's the little you're gonna hear, trying to claim.

708
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:34,280
Speaker 11: This man.

709
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 16: Would shoot him Siff.

710
00:42:38,199 --> 00:42:41,199
Speaker 1: The defense, on the other hand, stood by Hannah's story.

711
00:42:42,159 --> 00:42:46,239
They insisted that Kenneth Herring had been the aggressor and

712
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,320
that Hannah had no choice but to protect herself.

713
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:55,639
Speaker 34: And you will see teachers, and you will hook testimony,

714
00:42:55,679 --> 00:42:59,599
and you will see scratches all over her name, scratches

715
00:42:59,639 --> 00:43:03,320
on the her head, all these bruises on her face,

716
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,400
These are evidentsts that are going to come in. These

717
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,440
pictures weren't taking right after this, and you see her

718
00:43:10,559 --> 00:43:13,519
sure just completely wide open.

719
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: To bolster their argument, the defense pointed out that Kenneth

720
00:43:18,559 --> 00:43:23,039
a handyman, at various tools in his truck, items that

721
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,760
in theory, could have been used as weapons against Hannah.

722
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:29,559
Yet that never happened.

723
00:43:30,159 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 34: They're going to show you pictures of a knife, work

724
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:40,079
tools that could be used aggressively to cause substantial, serious

725
00:43:40,119 --> 00:43:40,880
immediate home.

726
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:47,159
Speaker 1: The trial lasted five days. Witnesses, police officers, and forensic

727
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,519
experts took the stand, laying out what they saw, heard,

728
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:55,199
and uncovered. Much of the testimony supported the prosecution's case,

729
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,719
painting Hannah as the aggressor. There was evidence of a struggle,

730
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,599
but nothing to suggest that Kenneth Herring had attacked Hannah

731
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:09,400
when she confronted him at his truck. Then Hannah took

732
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:09,960
the stand.

733
00:44:10,679 --> 00:44:14,280
Speaker 3: I was on my way home from work and I

734
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:17,920
was coming up to an intersection where the light had

735
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:18,599
just turned green.

736
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 4: As I was getting ready to turn left, there was

737
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:24,519
a semi that was turning right.

738
00:44:26,199 --> 00:44:29,280
Speaker 3: Someone ran the red light and I watched him run

739
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:30,920
right into the tractor trailer.

740
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 4: I pulled off to the side and I got on

741
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:37,000
the phone with nine to one one.

742
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 1: Hannah began telling her side of the story, describing the

743
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:46,159
traffic accident she witnessed and everything that unfolded after that.

744
00:44:47,079 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 3: After that, we were kind of just standing there waiting

745
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:54,840
for the police to arrive. And the other gentleman who

746
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:59,079
had witnessed it walked over to us, and he introduced

747
00:44:59,159 --> 00:45:01,800
himself and said that he was a state officer, and

748
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,800
he flashed his badge and said that he had checked

749
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,320
on the other gentleman, and that was asking us, are

750
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:09,760
we okay?

751
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 4: Is everybody all right?

752
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,559
Speaker 1: One of the key witnesses to the accident was an

753
00:45:14,599 --> 00:45:19,239
off duty correctional officer named Terry Robinson. During her testimony,

754
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:23,079
Hannah claimed that she'd been following the instructions of a

755
00:45:23,199 --> 00:45:27,159
man she assumed was a quote state officer.

756
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:29,599
Speaker 4: What I thought that we had.

757
00:45:30,039 --> 00:45:34,719
Speaker 3: Learned was that the driver who had caused the original

758
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:40,679
accident was potentially drunk. I noticed that's when he completely

759
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,760
gets in his truck. He starts trying to turn it on,

760
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,239
and you can hear him like revving it to get

761
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:51,360
it to turn on and that's when he started to

762
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:55,880
drive away. So I'm explaining to the dispatch what happened,

763
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:58,960
and as he's pulling off, she's asking me, you know,

764
00:45:59,119 --> 00:46:01,599
was I able to get the time number? Realizing I

765
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:05,119
wasn't able to. I was already at my vehicle and

766
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,599
my completely got in my vehicle and went to go

767
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:15,480
pull off, and at that time, the truck driver and

768
00:46:15,679 --> 00:46:19,239
the state officer was still standing over in the street,

769
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,679
and he started waving me over, like calling me towards him.

770
00:46:23,159 --> 00:46:25,039
Speaker 24: And when you got it close to him, what happened?

771
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 4: I asked him? Did he go straight? And he said yes,

772
00:46:31,519 --> 00:46:32,679
and he's telling me he said.

773
00:46:32,519 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 24: Go So at that time, you were under depression that

774
00:46:37,079 --> 00:46:39,679
he's a state officer sending you to get the tag

775
00:46:40,639 --> 00:46:42,880
and nil one knows that you're on the way to

776
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:43,440
get the tag.

777
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 4: Correct.

778
00:46:45,679 --> 00:46:49,639
Speaker 1: After Kenneth had fled the scene, Terry Robinson instructed Hannah

779
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:54,079
to follow Kenneth. And this fact was not disputed, and.

780
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:59,719
Speaker 35: That was you in there saying go good, go corright, yes, okay,

781
00:47:00,039 --> 00:47:02,519
I was directed clearly to misstaining right.

782
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 4: Yes, And you didn't see.

783
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,519
Speaker 35: Her after that because she's going to get a picture

784
00:47:07,519 --> 00:47:11,199
of the attack, right, yes, said do you never said

785
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:15,159
anything about please don't pursue, or you never said anything like, hey,

786
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:15,920
d say.

787
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 3: Don't do this.

788
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:18,679
Speaker 9: I said, you get the picture of the attack, and

789
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,400
you said go go good gum, she's going to get

790
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:22,320
a picture of attack.

791
00:47:23,679 --> 00:47:26,159
Speaker 1: Well, Terry may have been in the wrong to encourage

792
00:47:26,159 --> 00:47:30,519
Hannah to pursue Kenneth. One thing was certain. You never

793
00:47:30,599 --> 00:47:32,760
told her to run him off the road and shoot him.

794
00:47:33,559 --> 00:47:33,760
Speaker 4: Not to.

795
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,519
Speaker 1: I mentionine the fact that just because you're female doesn't

796
00:47:36,519 --> 00:47:39,920
mean you don't have autonomy and can't make your own decisions.

797
00:47:40,599 --> 00:47:45,000
You know, why are you always acting like victims. Hannah's

798
00:47:45,159 --> 00:47:49,360
decision to chase him was her own, despite what anybody

799
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:54,400
else told her. Nonetheless, Hannah's testimony continued, all.

800
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 24: Right, so then now you're you're going in the direction

801
00:47:57,039 --> 00:47:58,719
they pointed you, and you're on the phone in nine

802
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,840
to one. One was nine to one saying anything.

803
00:48:02,639 --> 00:48:04,599
Speaker 4: I was just there was kind of silence from the

804
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:07,079
time that she had.

805
00:48:07,039 --> 00:48:10,519
Speaker 3: Initially asked me if I had got the tag. I

806
00:48:10,679 --> 00:48:13,280
was still kind of getting my bearings, and I just

807
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:17,480
started repeating to her, telling her, Okay, you know he's

808
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:18,239
going down.

809
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,280
Speaker 4: Clark Howell or Forest Parkway.

810
00:48:21,519 --> 00:48:23,599
Speaker 24: So you never heard them give a warning of not

811
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:24,239
to chase.

812
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:25,039
Speaker 4: No.

813
00:48:26,519 --> 00:48:30,599
Speaker 1: This was a damning moment at trial and frankly a

814
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:35,360
boneheaded move by the defense when prompted by her own attorney,

815
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:37,840
and it claims she hadn't heard the nine one one

816
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,960
dispatcher tell her not to chase Kenneth, but the recorded

817
00:48:42,039 --> 00:48:44,000
call told a different story.

818
00:48:44,679 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 16: Okay, so you couldn't get a tang number.

819
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:49,159
Speaker 18: No, but I'm puting helping him right now.

820
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,280
Speaker 16: Okay, man, we actually do not want you to chase him.

821
00:48:52,679 --> 00:48:54,280
Speaker 13: Would need to.

822
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 16: I understand, I'm your and we hear the tack number.

823
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:06,280
Speaker 1: If nothing else, the dispatcher's words were crystal clear, do

824
00:49:07,079 --> 00:49:13,000
not chase. Hannah had even responded saying that she one

825
00:49:13,119 --> 00:49:19,079
hundred percent understood before outright refusing to obey. Y'all ever

826
00:49:19,159 --> 00:49:22,280
heard that word obey might be a new one for you.

827
00:49:23,039 --> 00:49:23,280
Speaker 23: I'm not.

828
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 18: I'm sorry that I'm here to tell you. I'm not

829
00:49:25,639 --> 00:49:26,719
not going to follow him.

830
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,519
Speaker 15: Because he is going to call another actor, so I

831
00:49:29,599 --> 00:49:31,440
won't stay behind him and coming officers we.

832
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 16: Get to us.

833
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 1: Hannah's testimony continued. She went on to explain her actions

834
00:49:37,639 --> 00:49:38,960
when she confronted Kenneth.

835
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 7: At that point is.

836
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:45,079
Speaker 3: When we had both come up to the intersection and

837
00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:51,519
I saw him stopped in the toning lane, so I

838
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:59,920
turned as well. And when I stopped, I was under

839
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,559
the impression, with me having nine one one on the phone,

840
00:50:02,639 --> 00:50:05,519
that I could just be kind of like a messenger.

841
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:11,840
So I took my phone on speaker and I took

842
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:15,280
it to him to show him that I had the

843
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,199
police on the phone, and I'm telling him they want

844
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,800
us to go back to the original accident site.

845
00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:25,079
Speaker 1: Hannah tried to present herself as a good Samaritan, but

846
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:30,320
the nine one one recording contradicted this. She had been aggressive,

847
00:50:30,519 --> 00:50:33,000
barking orders at an older man who was likely in

848
00:50:33,079 --> 00:50:36,920
the midst of a medical emergency. Granted, she didn't know

849
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,119
Kenneth's condition and assumed he was drunk, but even so

850
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,679
there was no justification for her to chase him down

851
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:44,599
and confront him.

852
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 3: But as I got closer, I heard him asking me

853
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:02,840
who the f are you? And I told him that

854
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,519
I was nobody, but that I had the police on

855
00:51:05,599 --> 00:51:08,880
the phone and that they wanted us to go back

856
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:13,239
to the original absent say. Apparently I was close enough

857
00:51:14,559 --> 00:51:18,599
for him to reach out the car and he knocked

858
00:51:18,599 --> 00:51:21,159
my phone out of my hand and he grabbed me.

859
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:26,440
Speaker 4: By my wrist and he pulled me into the vehicle.

860
00:51:27,679 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 1: Hannah claimed Kenneth attacked her and tried to pull her

861
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:34,039
into his truck. If that was true, a point the

862
00:51:34,079 --> 00:51:38,400
prosecution strongly doubted, Hannah was clearly the one who escalated

863
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:43,199
the situation. Legally, whatever action Kenneth took at that point

864
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:43,880
didn't matter.

865
00:51:44,519 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 7: The indication is as from all of the witnesses were

866
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:53,239
asked her demeanor aggressive aggressive, very aggressive. Once she is

867
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,519
noted as the initial aggressor, as the aggressor on seeing

868
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:01,000
nothing that mister Harring done did is relevant.

869
00:52:02,159 --> 00:52:06,039
Speaker 1: Despite the prosecution's argument, Hannah stuck to her story. She

870
00:52:06,199 --> 00:52:08,679
insisted that she'd been trying to protect herself.

871
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,000
Speaker 3: He was pulling my wrists and he pulled me in

872
00:52:11,079 --> 00:52:14,159
the vehicle, and he kept yelling at me, telling me

873
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:16,239
I have something for you, bitch.

874
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:24,039
Speaker 4: And he's leaning and he's reaching and he's pulling, and

875
00:52:24,159 --> 00:52:31,400
at this point I remember that time.

876
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:35,280
Speaker 3: I remember that he had let go of my wrist

877
00:52:35,679 --> 00:52:37,519
and he grabbed me by the back of my neck,

878
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:42,000
and it was as if he was trying to kind

879
00:52:42,039 --> 00:52:45,960
of keep a hold of me, I'm telling him to

880
00:52:46,199 --> 00:52:48,239
let me go, and.

881
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 4: That's when he hits the gas and we go forward.

882
00:52:56,159 --> 00:52:57,079
I'm stealing the car.

883
00:52:57,519 --> 00:53:02,119
Speaker 3: At this point, while it may have been a few

884
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:08,280
steps or a few feet, when you are being held

885
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:14,840
against your will and you have no idea what's ahead

886
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:19,079
of you and you're looking down, it felt like it

887
00:53:19,199 --> 00:53:19,880
lasted forever.

888
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 1: Here we go with the tears. Of course, kind of

889
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,039
goes on to tell the jury that after Kenneth's truck

890
00:53:28,159 --> 00:53:32,719
lurched forward and crashed into her precious jeep, Kenneth attempted

891
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:36,440
to take Hannah's gun and now suddenly she's being held

892
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:40,480
against her will. The irony, What the fuck was she

893
00:53:40,599 --> 00:53:44,960
doing there? Anyway? This eternal victimhood, it's fucking exhausting.

894
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 3: He grabbed my hand with the gun in it. He's

895
00:53:51,559 --> 00:53:54,119
pulling at it. He's pulling at it, and I'm just

896
00:53:54,639 --> 00:53:58,519
yelling at him to stop. As he's turning it towards

897
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:03,840
like that way. I'm being pulled and pulled, and I

898
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:07,400
can feel myself like pressing up against the car, like

899
00:54:08,079 --> 00:54:12,159
my face is up against the door, and as.

900
00:54:12,119 --> 00:54:16,760
Speaker 4: He's pulling it is when it they should kind of

901
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:19,440
went on Okay, having.

902
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:23,199
Speaker 24: Gone to that situation and Q are in court, is

903
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:27,440
there anything you've learned from this situation that sticks in

904
00:54:27,559 --> 00:54:28,320
your mind.

905
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 11: That not everybody is going to have a reaction that

906
00:54:34,039 --> 00:54:40,239
you think they're going to have, and it clearly trying

907
00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:42,199
to do the right thing, it's not the right answer.

908
00:54:43,559 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 1: Jeezus freaking did the concept of minding your own business

909
00:54:48,679 --> 00:54:51,960
ever crossed your mind, Hannah? I mean, why would it?

910
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,719
Hannah claimed that she had been simply trying to do

911
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:58,920
the right thing, but in the end, it was Kenneth

912
00:54:59,079 --> 00:55:02,559
who was to blame for what happened. For Kenneth's family,

913
00:55:02,679 --> 00:55:06,239
who were sitting in the courtroom listening to Hannah's words

914
00:55:06,599 --> 00:55:08,400
was unbearable.

915
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:09,400
Speaker 7: How was that?

916
00:55:09,519 --> 00:55:12,159
Speaker 9: I mean, for them to bring forth that type of defense.

917
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:13,159
Speaker 16: What did you think about that?

918
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 36: I think it's selfish to blame the victim, and I

919
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:26,960
thought it was heartless when all accounts said the aggressive

920
00:55:27,639 --> 00:55:31,559
and then to blame a victim of the person.

921
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:35,320
Speaker 29: That you calls it must have been tough to sit

922
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:35,760
through that.

923
00:55:36,159 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 9: It was very tough.

924
00:55:38,679 --> 00:55:42,920
Speaker 1: Next up, the prosecution cross examined Hannah, which was a

925
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:44,840
bit of a disaster for the.

926
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:50,320
Speaker 8: Defense, and you also testified today that you never heard that. Now,

927
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,880
will one dispatch give you a warning that chase you?

928
00:55:54,039 --> 00:55:54,679
Speaker 4: I never said that.

929
00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:58,599
Speaker 3: I said that she told me that she wanted me

930
00:55:58,679 --> 00:56:02,079
to be safe, and I said that from what I

931
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:05,920
took it as was that she didn't want me to chase.

932
00:56:06,119 --> 00:56:08,800
And when I explained to her, I wasn't chasing. I

933
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,400
was just simply saying with him until a police.

934
00:56:11,159 --> 00:56:12,119
Speaker 21: Officer could get to us.

935
00:56:13,159 --> 00:56:16,599
Speaker 8: And then now on one dispatch indicated to you approximately

936
00:56:16,679 --> 00:56:21,239
four times to either not chase mister heron and go

937
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:22,079
back to the scene.

938
00:56:22,159 --> 00:56:25,119
Speaker 3: Correct, incorrect. I only heard it one time, and she

939
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:29,079
told me not to chase to be safe. She never

940
00:56:29,199 --> 00:56:33,760
told me to go back to the scene until after

941
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,679
I had told her that I was behind him and

942
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:40,119
that she wanted me to be safe, and in doing so,

943
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:42,679
she said that she wanted both of us.

944
00:56:42,639 --> 00:56:43,159
Speaker 11: To go back.

945
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: Hanna's explanation of the nine one one call was a

946
00:56:46,679 --> 00:56:52,119
word salad, mess rambling, contradictory, and unluckly to convince the

947
00:56:52,199 --> 00:56:55,719
jury of anything other than she was an idiot. You

948
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:59,039
only heard her tell you to stop chasing once, but

949
00:56:59,159 --> 00:57:01,840
then she told you again to stop chasing and go

950
00:57:02,039 --> 00:57:04,119
back to the scene. After you told her that you

951
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:10,519
were behind him. What we what what are you even saying, lady, Oh,

952
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:15,159
that's right, it's never my fault. I see, makes sense.

953
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:18,760
Speaker 8: And the dispatcher tells you, okay, ma'am, we actually do

954
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:20,960
not want you to chase him. We just want you

955
00:57:21,079 --> 00:57:23,599
to be safe. The first time, they tell you not

956
00:57:23,679 --> 00:57:26,400
to chase him. Correct, she didn't tell.

957
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:26,719
Speaker 3: Me not to.

958
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 4: She just said that they didn't want me to because

959
00:57:29,519 --> 00:57:32,079
of my safety. At least it's the way that I interpreted.

960
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:34,199
Speaker 8: Okay, I'll give you that. So they told you that

961
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,320
they do not want you to chase him. Correct, Correct,

962
00:57:39,119 --> 00:57:42,320
And the dispatcher tells you after that it's not safe

963
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:43,039
to chase him.

964
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 4: Second time.

965
00:57:45,639 --> 00:57:50,199
Speaker 3: Correct, that's what the transcripts guns said. When we're listening

966
00:57:50,239 --> 00:57:51,320
to it, I don't remember hearing that.

967
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 8: And once she gets the tag number from you, she

968
00:57:55,559 --> 00:57:59,000
tells you, okay, so if you could go back to

969
00:57:59,079 --> 00:58:01,840
that location where the didn't happen, because someone is actually

970
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:04,440
on the way to you guys, now, is that correct?

971
00:58:05,119 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 4: Correct?

972
00:58:06,679 --> 00:58:11,039
Speaker 8: That's the third time she's telling you to not continue

973
00:58:11,079 --> 00:58:13,159
to follow mister Herring and go back to the location.

974
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:17,840
And the dispatcher tells you after that you know, that's

975
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:21,000
what I want. I want you guys to go back

976
00:58:21,039 --> 00:58:23,320
to the location where it happened, and an officer would

977
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:26,039
be out there momentarily. So that's the fourth time.

978
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 1: She's telling you again after going over the nine when

979
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:33,280
one call. Prosecutor then turned to what happened after Hannah

980
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:34,880
blocked Kenneth's truck.

981
00:58:35,559 --> 00:58:39,719
Speaker 8: Now you testified that you walked up to him. Does

982
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,840
it sound like you described it calmly telling him that

983
00:58:43,039 --> 00:58:45,119
the nine one one dispatch wanted him to go back

984
00:58:45,159 --> 00:58:48,960
to the scene, correct, and telling him calmly that you

985
00:58:49,039 --> 00:58:51,039
were on the phone of nine one one.

986
00:58:52,199 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 4: I mean you say calmly? Do you mean like was

987
00:58:56,039 --> 00:58:58,199
I irate or was I louder?

988
00:59:00,039 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 8: That she's your testimony today that you did not get

989
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,239
out of your vehicle run up to mister Herring's vehicle

990
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:07,920
telling him to get out of the car. Correct, And

991
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:09,800
you never once got out of your vehicle and go

992
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:11,239
up to him and tell him to get out of.

993
00:59:11,239 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 16: The fucking car.

994
00:59:13,639 --> 00:59:14,920
Speaker 4: Where everyone heard I did.

995
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:17,639
Speaker 8: And so at no point on the now one one

996
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:23,400
tape did you ever tell him to stop I go

997
00:59:23,519 --> 00:59:25,800
back to the scene. I did, And did you hear

998
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:26,840
that on the now one one.

999
00:59:28,639 --> 00:59:29,239
Speaker 4: Conveniently.

1000
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:29,400
Speaker 22: No.

1001
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:34,719
Speaker 1: The prosecutor's argument was simple. Hannah had no legal right

1002
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:38,000
to chase Kenneth. She had no reason to confront him

1003
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:41,239
at all, and the only reason a man was dead

1004
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:45,079
was because of the choices she made on that day.

1005
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 8: So, in the initial incident, your vehicle was not struck correct, correct,

1006
00:59:52,440 --> 00:59:57,239
and so there was no reason for you to interject

1007
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:01,679
yourself in the final inclusion of what happened with mister Herring.

1008
01:00:01,679 --> 01:00:03,719
As far as that incident was concerned.

1009
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 3: There's a lot that led up to that. So for

1010
01:00:07,039 --> 01:00:10,920
me to have introducted myself to begin with was me

1011
01:00:11,079 --> 01:00:13,679
doing something that I would have wanted someone else to

1012
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:16,159
do for me, which was to be a witness for

1013
01:00:17,119 --> 01:00:18,400
what I thought was an accident.

1014
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 8: I talked about the fact that it could have been

1015
01:00:21,039 --> 01:00:26,199
avoided had you not attempted to, I guess, assist or help.

1016
01:00:26,719 --> 01:00:29,960
But this actually could have been avoided if you not

1017
01:00:30,159 --> 01:00:33,800
had introduced a gun into this incident.

1018
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:39,119
Speaker 4: Correct. I introduced the gun to try and save my life.

1019
01:00:40,119 --> 01:00:40,840
Nothing further on.

1020
01:00:42,159 --> 01:00:46,400
Speaker 1: Hannah's decision to testify didn't do her any favors, but

1021
01:00:46,519 --> 01:00:49,079
given how much evidence was stacked against her, she really

1022
01:00:49,119 --> 01:00:52,239
didn't have much of a choice. Maybe a white girl

1023
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:58,000
crying on the stand would sway a dumb juror or two. Finally,

1024
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,519
after days of testimony, the trial drew to a close

1025
01:01:01,679 --> 01:01:04,639
and both sides delivered their closing arguments.

1026
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:11,079
Speaker 37: The defendant had multiple opportunities to do something else, to

1027
01:01:11,159 --> 01:01:14,119
go back to the incident location, to go back home,

1028
01:01:15,199 --> 01:01:15,840
not pursuit.

1029
01:01:16,559 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 4: This had nothing to do with her.

1030
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:22,800
Speaker 37: You can't poke a bear and then when the bear

1031
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:28,960
turns around and attack, you want to claim self defense.

1032
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:33,039
Speaker 4: It doesn't work that way. And you know how much

1033
01:01:33,239 --> 01:01:34,599
entitlement you have to have.

1034
01:01:36,519 --> 01:01:41,519
Speaker 8: To chase somebody down, detain them, jump out your car.

1035
01:01:43,239 --> 01:01:44,559
Speaker 7: And run toward a stranger.

1036
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:47,679
Speaker 8: He didn't know her, he didn't know why she was

1037
01:01:47,719 --> 01:01:48,840
approaching his car.

1038
01:01:49,679 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 29: And demand that they do anything.

1039
01:01:53,519 --> 01:01:56,559
Speaker 8: He didn't have to listen to her, He didn't have

1040
01:01:56,679 --> 01:01:57,360
to do anything.

1041
01:01:57,519 --> 01:01:58,239
Speaker 16: She said.

1042
01:02:00,079 --> 01:02:06,159
Speaker 8: Audacity to come here and take that stand and blame

1043
01:02:06,559 --> 01:02:08,920
everybody else.

1044
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:14,719
Speaker 1: The prosecution argued the obvious Hannah should have minded her

1045
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:18,800
own business. The world would be a much better place

1046
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:23,239
if more of y'all out there. Yeah, you, the one's

1047
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:28,639
listening right now, minded your own fucking business. The defense

1048
01:02:28,719 --> 01:02:33,079
counter claiming that Hannah was young, naive, and simply trying

1049
01:02:33,119 --> 01:02:36,320
to do the right thing. But how many times have

1050
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:39,599
we heard that before, not understanding.

1051
01:02:40,039 --> 01:02:42,119
Speaker 16: What could happen because she's never been in there.

1052
01:02:42,199 --> 01:02:43,760
Speaker 35: She's twenty one years old, never be.

1053
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 4: In a situation like that.

1054
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 24: Her mind.

1055
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:49,719
Speaker 34: She's a young individual.

1056
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:50,239
Speaker 16: Trying to help out.

1057
01:02:51,679 --> 01:02:52,920
Speaker 7: This is not a killer.

1058
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:54,960
Speaker 4: There is not some nerve.

1059
01:02:56,159 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 35: This is a young girl I got caught up the

1060
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:03,280
wrong situations of a good heart and good attention.

1061
01:03:04,599 --> 01:03:07,679
Speaker 1: The jury had two versions of Hannah pain to consider.

1062
01:03:08,559 --> 01:03:11,800
The defense portrayed her as a well intentioned, but naive

1063
01:03:12,239 --> 01:03:16,000
young woman. The prosecution painted her as an entitled and

1064
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:20,119
smug karen who took the law into her own hands

1065
01:03:20,159 --> 01:03:23,719
and ended up killing an innocent man. In the end,

1066
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:26,760
it was the jury's job to decide which version of

1067
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:30,760
Hannah was the truth, and it only took him about

1068
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:32,280
two hours to make that decision.

1069
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:35,199
Speaker 21: More breaking news, this time out of Clayton County, where

1070
01:03:35,239 --> 01:03:38,239
we just heard hours ago, a jury return a verdict

1071
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:40,599
in the murder trial of Hannah Payne.

1072
01:03:40,719 --> 01:03:43,599
Speaker 7: The panel deliberated for a little more than two hours,

1073
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:47,320
unanimously finding her guilty on all eight counts.

1074
01:03:48,719 --> 01:03:54,719
Speaker 1: Say it with me, guilty on all counts for Kenneth

1075
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:59,360
Herring's family, justice had finally been served.

1076
01:04:00,119 --> 01:04:03,199
Speaker 30: When I heard the first verdict, I know we wasn't

1077
01:04:03,239 --> 01:04:07,480
supposed to show sign, but tears start rolling down my

1078
01:04:07,599 --> 01:04:12,000
face because at that moment I failed on relief that

1079
01:04:12,199 --> 01:04:17,159
came over and from the first to the second to

1080
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:19,719
all the way to the eighth, all I could say

1081
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:21,920
was thank you, thank you.

1082
01:04:22,679 --> 01:04:23,039
Speaker 16: Thank you.

1083
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:24,559
Speaker 24: Well.

1084
01:04:24,599 --> 01:04:28,360
Speaker 1: This trout remained focused on the evidence. The court of

1085
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:32,960
public opinion, of course, was much messier. Because Hannah was

1086
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:35,880
a white woman who shot a black man. Many on

1087
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:39,599
social media, you know, the shit stain that it is,

1088
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:44,440
were quick to label her actions as racially motivated. The

1089
01:04:44,519 --> 01:04:48,719
prosecutors rejected this theory outright because the evidence just didn't

1090
01:04:48,719 --> 01:04:53,119
support it. Besides, Hannah had previously dated a black man,

1091
01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:57,599
her current boyfriend was Dominican, and her best friend since

1092
01:04:57,679 --> 01:05:01,519
childhood was a black woman. All accounts, Hannah had a

1093
01:05:01,679 --> 01:05:06,079
diverse circle of friends. In fact, she must have felt

1094
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:08,599
bulletproof anyway.

1095
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:09,960
Speaker 23: For the state.

1096
01:05:10,199 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 1: Racism and hatred were never a factor in this case.

1097
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:17,559
That's just social media horseshit by other Karens with nothing

1098
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:18,840
better to do.

1099
01:05:19,679 --> 01:05:22,519
Speaker 29: I think people are under the misconception that it was race.

1100
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:26,440
We never ever bought race into this matter. As I

1101
01:05:26,559 --> 01:05:29,039
told y'all when she was convicted the other night, that

1102
01:05:29,199 --> 01:05:32,000
was too simple to say that it was black and white.

1103
01:05:32,559 --> 01:05:34,719
You know, we sat in our office for four years,

1104
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:38,800
we were having these these discussions and trying to figure

1105
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:41,639
out why. Only Hannah Payne knows why she did it.

1106
01:05:42,119 --> 01:05:44,079
But the fact that the certain things that we knew,

1107
01:05:44,119 --> 01:05:47,199
that she knew, she had an African American boyfriend, you know,

1108
01:05:47,639 --> 01:05:51,719
so that automatically throws out, you know, hate out there.

1109
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 24: You know, race, We will never know.

1110
01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:57,559
Speaker 29: We will never know because she never really told us

1111
01:05:57,599 --> 01:06:00,000
the truth on the stand. That story kept change.

1112
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:05,519
Speaker 1: The district attorney put it bluntly, only Hannah Payne knew

1113
01:06:05,599 --> 01:06:09,400
why she did what she did, but one could argue

1114
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:14,639
that maybe even she didn't fully understand. The people closest

1115
01:06:14,679 --> 01:06:17,280
to her certainly struggled to make sense of what happened.

1116
01:06:18,159 --> 01:06:21,159
Her friends and family were stunned when they learned about it.

1117
01:06:22,239 --> 01:06:24,719
Those who knew Hannah swore she was one of the

1118
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:30,159
kindest people they'd ever met. At Hannah's sentencing hearing, several

1119
01:06:30,199 --> 01:06:32,280
of them spoke on her behalf.

1120
01:06:32,559 --> 01:06:35,239
Speaker 29: Pyne was in tears at times as her loved ones

1121
01:06:35,519 --> 01:06:37,480
talked about the person they knew her to be.

1122
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:41,519
Speaker 31: I have witnessed her servant's heart more times than I

1123
01:06:41,599 --> 01:06:45,960
could be permitted to talk about today. Over the course

1124
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:50,360
of time, I have consistently witnessed Hannah opening doors for others,

1125
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:57,760
always express thank yous without hesitation, to step in and

1126
01:06:58,079 --> 01:07:03,119
offer assistance whenever and wherever needed. If you've ever had

1127
01:07:03,159 --> 01:07:05,480
a moment where you need to lift a heavy item

1128
01:07:05,559 --> 01:07:08,480
into your car and a stranger walked up without being

1129
01:07:08,599 --> 01:07:10,079
asked and offered to help.

1130
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:11,920
Speaker 4: You, this could have been Hannah.

1131
01:07:13,239 --> 01:07:16,800
Speaker 31: If you've ever seen a person ask for money on

1132
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:20,480
the street and a person give it freely because they care.

1133
01:07:21,039 --> 01:07:22,679
Speaker 4: That may also have been Hannah.

1134
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 31: If you have ever seen a stray animal walking too

1135
01:07:27,039 --> 01:07:29,960
close along a roadway and a total stranger stopped to

1136
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:35,360
render help, that also was likely Hannah. And not once,

1137
01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:42,840
not ever, have I ever witnessed her be the slightest unkind.

1138
01:07:44,239 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 1: The murder of Kenneth Herring wasn't the work of a

1139
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:51,039
cold blooded killer, but rather several moments where someone's worst

1140
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:56,079
instincts took over. Hannah pain allowed her inner monster to

1141
01:07:56,239 --> 01:07:59,760
win and because of that a father, a husband, a brother,

1142
01:08:00,239 --> 01:08:05,000
and a son lost his life. But what made things

1143
01:08:05,119 --> 01:08:10,280
even worse was what came next. Rather than take responsibility,

1144
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,960
Hannah took her case to trial, trying to convince the

1145
01:08:14,079 --> 01:08:18,520
jury that her murder victim attacked her and that he

1146
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:25,439
had shot himself. Her lack of remorse spoke volumes. One

1147
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:28,720
of the nicest people you've ever met. You say, huh,

1148
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:34,239
that's interesting. She continued to allow the monster to win,

1149
01:08:35,159 --> 01:08:39,640
adding to the suffering she had already caused that sentencing.

1150
01:08:40,359 --> 01:08:44,600
Kenneth's family understandably pleaded for the maximum punishment.

1151
01:08:45,199 --> 01:08:49,720
Speaker 29: The prosecution and defense both presented witnesses, among them Herring's relatives.

1152
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:54,960
Speaker 30: I'll never see my brother again, only through pictures, the

1153
01:08:55,159 --> 01:08:58,319
same sentence that she gave him.

1154
01:09:00,199 --> 01:09:02,560
Speaker 4: Like to see the same sentence given to her.

1155
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:07,680
Speaker 1: Kenneth's family and the prosecution pushed for life without parole

1156
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:14,159
will the defense pleaded for life with the possibility of parole. Ultimately,

1157
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:18,720
the judge chose the latter, but also ordered that some

1158
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:23,760
of Hannah's additional charges would run consecutively to her life sentence.

1159
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:25,399
Speaker 4: Miss pain is.

1160
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:28,760
Speaker 29: Going away for life with the possibility of parole for

1161
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:30,920
those of you who do not understand what life, what

1162
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:33,760
the possibility of parole means. It means in thirty years

1163
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:35,199
that will be the first time and she will be

1164
01:09:35,279 --> 01:09:36,880
able to come up for parole.

1165
01:09:37,279 --> 01:09:40,760
Speaker 4: But she's got an additional thirteen years. She's a twenty

1166
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:41,680
five year old woman.

1167
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:45,199
Speaker 29: I'm not good with math, but thirty plus thirteen would

1168
01:09:45,239 --> 01:09:48,560
put her somewhere around seventy eight years old before she

1169
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:49,560
could possibly get.

1170
01:09:49,399 --> 01:09:49,960
Speaker 16: Out of jail.

1171
01:09:51,159 --> 01:09:55,439
Speaker 1: Hannah Payne was not a career criminal. She wasn't a

1172
01:09:55,840 --> 01:10:00,279
hardened killer by all accounts. She was a decent, an

1173
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:04,760
ordinary young woman living an ordinary life until the day

1174
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:09,199
she wasn't until the day she got so gassed up

1175
01:10:09,279 --> 01:10:13,319
that she thought she was batman. That day, a mix

1176
01:10:13,399 --> 01:10:17,880
of arrogance, self righteousness, and adrenaline pushed her past the

1177
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:21,239
point of no return. Women don't seem to do well

1178
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:27,880
with adrenaline. Men live with it. Born in darkness, molded

1179
01:10:28,079 --> 01:10:32,479
by it. In Hannah's immature mind, she was a hero,

1180
01:10:33,399 --> 01:10:38,640
an enforcer of justice, a caped crusader, and a jeep wrangler.

1181
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:43,079
Do you hear how dumb that sounds? But justice was

1182
01:10:43,199 --> 01:10:47,880
never hers to deliver? And then chasing a moment of control,

1183
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:52,920
which is all it was. She destroyed countless lives, including

1184
01:10:53,159 --> 01:10:58,359
her own. She lost everything. One pull of a trigger

1185
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:01,680
was all it took for an ordinary woman to become

1186
01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:06,520
a murderer. The line between man and monster isn't as

1187
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:10,800
thick as we'd like to think. It's fucking scary. It

1188
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:14,479
can happen in an instant to you, to me, or

1189
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:17,840
anyone else for that matter, when we're least expecting it.

1190
01:11:19,079 --> 01:11:23,239
Sometimes all it takes to cross over that line is

1191
01:11:23,319 --> 01:11:51,720
the wrong belief that you're on the right side. All right, ladies,

1192
01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:55,319
I think I've beaten you up enough today. He's so abusive,

1193
01:11:55,840 --> 01:11:57,319
So why don't you mind your own business and head

1194
01:11:57,359 --> 01:11:59,680
on over to swordscale dot com and until next week,

1195
01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:01,079
stay say