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Chump Chumbucasino dot com 19 00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:00.840 plusters editions see whatsy retails. 20 00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:11.560 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 21 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:14.680 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 22 00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:18.920 written about them Gaesy, Bundy, Dahmer. 23 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:20.840 The Nightstalker DTK. 24 00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:25.560 Every week, another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 25 00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:29.760 and infamous killers in true crime history True Murder with 26 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:33.799 your host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 27 00:01:41.799 --> 00:01:44.840 Good Evening. As Adolf Hitler rose to power in nineteen 28 00:01:44.920 --> 00:01:48.439 thirties Germany, a growing wave of fascism began to take 29 00:01:48.519 --> 00:01:52.959 root on American soil. Nazi activists started to gather in 30 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:56.519 major American cities, and by nineteen thirty three, there were 31 00:01:56.560 --> 00:02:00.640 more than one hundred anti Semitic groups operating openly. In 32 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:04.519 the United States. Few Americans dare to speak out or 33 00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:09.360 fight back until an organized resistance of notorious mobsters waged 34 00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:13.280 their own personal war against the Nazis in their midst 35 00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:17.960 gangland style. In this thrilling blow by blow account, acclaimed 36 00:02:18.000 --> 00:02:21.680 crime writer Michael Benson uncovers the shocking truth about the 37 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:25.719 insidious rise of Nazism in America and the Jewish mobsters 38 00:02:25.960 --> 00:02:30.560 who stomped it out. Learn about Nazi Town, USA, Mayer, 39 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:35.520 Lansky and Murder, Inc. Fritz Kuhn, the vest pocket, Hitler, Newark, 40 00:02:35.879 --> 00:02:40.680 Nazis versus the Minutemen, and Hitler in Hollywoodland Back with 41 00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:47.080 surprising little known facts, graphic details, and unforgettable personalities. Gangsters 42 00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:51.840 Versus Nazis chronicles the mob's most ruthless tactics in taking 43 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:56.240 down fascism, inspiring ordinary Americans to join them in their fight. 44 00:02:56.520 --> 00:02:59.319 The book culminates in one of the most infamous events 45 00:02:59.639 --> 00:03:03.960 of the Rewar era, the nineteen thirty nine Nazi rally 46 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:08.039 in Madison Square Garden, in which law abiding citizens stood 47 00:03:08.039 --> 00:03:11.520 alongside hardened criminals to fight for the soul of a nation. 48 00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:15.280 This is the story of the mob that's rarely told, 49 00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:19.240 one of the most fascinating chapters in American history and 50 00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:22.919 American organized crime. The book that we're featuring this evening 51 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:28.199 is Gangsters Versus Nazis. How Jewish mobsters battled Nazis in 52 00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:31.800 World War II era America, with my special guest journalist 53 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:35.120 and author Michael Benson. Welcome back to the program, and 54 00:03:35.159 --> 00:03:38.360 thank you for this interview. Michael Benson, Thanks for having me, 55 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:41.719 Dan appreciate it. Thank you so much, and congratulations on 56 00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:45.800 this Versus Nazis. Let's talk about as you do in 57 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:49.479 the very first chapter about Jewish the jew titled Jewish 58 00:03:49.479 --> 00:03:53.759 Gangsters and the Jewish migration to the United States. You 59 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:57.560 say began in the nineteenth century, largely from Central Europe 60 00:03:58.199 --> 00:03:59.960 and many from Russia. 61 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:04.800 Just tell us a little bit about how many Jewish people. 62 00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:07.240 Were in America at that time near the turn of 63 00:04:07.240 --> 00:04:09.599 the century, and tell us a little bit more about 64 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:14.120 the background of Jewish gangsters in America and why. 65 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:19.240 Well, the Jewish immigration rates escalated greatly in the first 66 00:04:19.240 --> 00:04:22.480 part of the twentieth century, largely because Jews did not 67 00:04:22.600 --> 00:04:25.240 feel welcome in Europe anymore and they're hoping to find 68 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:27.959 a better life in America. I love of the players 69 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:31.399 in the book were children in Europe and remembered the 70 00:04:31.399 --> 00:04:34.079 way that Jews were treated in Russia, in particular. I 71 00:04:34.120 --> 00:04:37.800 think people sometimes think that Adolf Hitler invented anti Semitism, 72 00:04:37.879 --> 00:04:40.160 but in reality had been going on for thousands of 73 00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:43.000 years already, and this was the latest wave of it. 74 00:04:43.079 --> 00:04:44.680 And they came over to America. A lot of them 75 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:48.360 got as far as New York and stopped. Others moved 76 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:53.720 further into the country, and there were Jewish communities in Minneapolis, 77 00:04:53.800 --> 00:04:56.399 in the midwestern Chicago, a lot of the major cities 78 00:04:56.399 --> 00:04:58.120 in the country, all the way out to the West coast, 79 00:04:58.279 --> 00:05:01.879 where Los Angeles had a Jewish community and probably the 80 00:05:01.879 --> 00:05:05.879 only industry in the country that was dominated by Jewish 81 00:05:05.959 --> 00:05:09.519 men was Hollywood. But for most Jews, I mean ninety 82 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:11.759 nine point nine percent of them, they had a very 83 00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:16.360 limited potential for success in America, or I guess it 84 00:05:16.439 --> 00:05:18.920 was better than it was in Russia because people weren't 85 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:22.879 burning down their villages and raping their women. But they 86 00:05:22.920 --> 00:05:25.639 also weren't allowed to go into a lot of professions 87 00:05:25.759 --> 00:05:29.720 that Christians were allowed to do. They were regulated to 88 00:05:29.759 --> 00:05:34.600 being butchers and tailors and things like that. And eventually 89 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:38.600 you had ambitious Jewish men who weren't content with playing 90 00:05:38.680 --> 00:05:44.120 by gentile rules and played outside the roles. They became criminals, gangsters, 91 00:05:44.279 --> 00:05:48.439 and particularly during Prohibition, Jewish gangsters were among the top 92 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:51.879 bootleggers in America. And because they made so much money, 93 00:05:52.040 --> 00:05:55.720 they were, i mean, next to the moguls of Hollywood, 94 00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:58.399 the most powerful Jewish people in the country. 95 00:05:58.600 --> 00:06:04.240 You talk about urging idolization by some Jewish kids and 96 00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:07.959 Jewish people by and you said, you called them this 97 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:13.560 person a Jewish superstar gangster, This Arnold Rostein and the 98 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:19.560 veritable who's who crew of future gangsters. Tell us who 99 00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:22.480 this veritable crew that he basically recruits. 100 00:06:22.759 --> 00:06:26.639 Well in Brooklyn at that time, there was a little 101 00:06:26.680 --> 00:06:30.040 pack of juvenile delinquents, you know, shaking down the corner 102 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:33.959 stores and things like that, called the Meyer Meyer Bugs Crew, 103 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:37.800 and that was Bugsy Siegel and Meyer Lansky, both of 104 00:06:37.879 --> 00:06:40.439 whom went on to become famous gangsters in their own right. 105 00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:44.279 And let Key was there, and a lot of the 106 00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:48.360 boys who would later be members of Murder Ink, who 107 00:06:48.439 --> 00:06:51.600 play a big part in my book. Rostein's probably most famous. 108 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:54.720 Well one thing he's he's fictionalized. I forget the name 109 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:56.639 of his fictional character, but he's in the Great Gatsby 110 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:00.639 and he's best known, I think for fixed the world 111 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:03.839 series the Black Sox scandal of nineteen nineteen, when the 112 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:07.319 Chicago White Sox through the world series. That was Arnie 113 00:07:07.399 --> 00:07:12.079 Rostein buying players. And Rostein also was shot and killed 114 00:07:12.319 --> 00:07:14.759 in the Sharton Hotel in New York, which happens to 115 00:07:14.839 --> 00:07:19.240 be the same hotel where generations later Albert Anastasia was 116 00:07:19.319 --> 00:07:24.279 killed in the barbershop right off the lobby. So if 117 00:07:24.279 --> 00:07:26.360 you're a gangster, I would suggest to steer clear of 118 00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:31.680 that particular hotel. Yeah, Lansky and Siegel the leaders of 119 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:36.040 their own little crew in Brooklyn. They went to work 120 00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:42.399 for Rostein and as adults became major players in global economics. 121 00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:47.160 Lansky in particular was the right hand man of Lucky Luciano, 122 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:50.720 another fellow from the neighborhood. Now, I've always been amazed 123 00:07:50.759 --> 00:07:53.879 how you can have blocks for so many people become famous, 124 00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:58.639 all being neighbors. Yes, I remember Joe Garagiola and Yogi 125 00:07:58.720 --> 00:08:02.360 Bearra were both made league catchers in the nineteen forties, 126 00:08:02.360 --> 00:08:04.360 and they grew up across the street from one another. Wow, 127 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:06.959 And garagiolays to joke that, you know, I don't have 128 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:09.199 much of an ego for a big league ballplayer because 129 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:10.759 when I was growing up, I wasn't even the best 130 00:08:10.759 --> 00:08:15.360 ballplayer at my block. And that's the way it was. Eventually, 131 00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:18.839 Myer Lansky is the alpha, but I mean Bugsy Siegel 132 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:22.240 and Mickey Cohen and other Jewish ansters are also very 133 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:26.720 very powerful men. And after Prohibition ends, the boles That 134 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:30.439 Act is repealed, they almost seamlessly shift gears and go 135 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:35.000 into gambling and become even richer and more powerful. 136 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:39.720 Talk about the rise in Europe with fascism and what 137 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:42.200 was going on in Germany at this time. 138 00:08:42.039 --> 00:08:44.840 Well, yeah, and by the mid thirties, you know, Adolf 139 00:08:44.919 --> 00:08:48.639 Hitler was in control of Germany and his armies were 140 00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:52.600 pushing outward. The attempt was to conquer the world. I 141 00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:56.000 suspect he was already fighting with Russia. He was knocking 142 00:08:56.039 --> 00:08:59.399 off the smaller countries of Western Europe as I set 143 00:08:59.559 --> 00:09:04.320 already on Great Britain, and the Jewish communities of those 144 00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:08.039 countries were having terrible things happened to them. Really wasn't 145 00:09:08.120 --> 00:09:11.279 known among Gentiles. It wasn't really known in America that 146 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:14.600 there was an attempted genocide going on already in Europe, 147 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:18.399 the Germans trying to wipe out the Jews. But Jewish 148 00:09:18.399 --> 00:09:21.919 communities in America had an inkling that this was going on. 149 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:23.879 I'm not sure they visited in the scale that it 150 00:09:23.960 --> 00:09:27.240 inevitably ended up being, but they knew that Grandpa got 151 00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:29.720 picked up by the Germans and he hasn't come back. 152 00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:35.720 So when the German Americans who liked Hitler's attitude in 153 00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:39.039 the United States, when they started with the rhetoric of 154 00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:42.519 the Jewish problem and the ultimate solution to it, there 155 00:09:42.519 --> 00:09:45.960 were Jewish Men who understood where that rhetoric was headed. 156 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:49.919 So committing acts of violence against the American Nazis was 157 00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:51.840 not going to bother their conscience as much. 158 00:09:52.279 --> 00:09:54.360 Now you talk about that, there wasn't going to be 159 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:57.759 bothering some people, and we were alluding to these mobsters 160 00:09:57.799 --> 00:10:01.720 that get chosen through this very interesting route. But let's 161 00:10:01.720 --> 00:10:07.799 first talk about how Nazism manifests itself in the United States. 162 00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:12.159 What's Hitler's plan, what's his depiction of the situation in 163 00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:15.480 Germany and Europe for America? What's his plan? What do 164 00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:17.879 you want to convince Americans about. 165 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:22.799 Well, America is particularly vulnerable to disinformation in nineteen thirty 166 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:26.159 eight because we're almost a full decade into the Great Depression. 167 00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:28.759 No one has any money. It seems like nobody's had 168 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:31.279 any money in a very very long time. So if 169 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:33.840 a German Americans stood up on a podium and said, 170 00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:37.039 the problem is it's the Jews. They have all the money. 171 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:40.879 They're all Communists and that's the reason why we're all poor. 172 00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:43.840 If we get rid of them, we will be richer. 173 00:10:44.080 --> 00:10:48.360 And although you know, ninety nine percent of German Americans 174 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:51.480 saw this as hate speech and didn't listen to it, 175 00:10:51.679 --> 00:10:54.360 there was a small number and that counts up to 176 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:57.080 about one hundred thousand. But compared to the number of 177 00:10:57.080 --> 00:11:00.840 German Americans, that's a small percentage, and who bought into 178 00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:04.759 this and attended rallies and listen to the speeches. And 179 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:08.320 the idea I think in the short term was to 180 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:10.559 get German Americans to vote as a block so that 181 00:11:10.759 --> 00:11:14.240 like minded politicians would be in power. And in the 182 00:11:14.279 --> 00:11:17.559 long term, of course, it was the goal to turn 183 00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:21.279 the United States into a carbon copy of Nazi Germany. 184 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:25.639 I think that Hitler's original plan was to take over 185 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:29.000 the United States without firing a shot. He thought that 186 00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:33.279 if he could take over Hollywood, which was run by Jews, 187 00:11:33.320 --> 00:11:35.720 after all, he didn't have to lie about that they 188 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:38.000 really were in charge in Hollywood. If he could take 189 00:11:38.000 --> 00:11:40.720 over Hollywood and have them crank out pro Nazi movies 190 00:11:40.759 --> 00:11:42.879 instead of anti Nazi movies, he might be able to 191 00:11:42.919 --> 00:11:46.600 win the hearts and minds of Americans without having to 192 00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:49.240 go to war with them. What problem was, he didn't 193 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:51.759 really put a strong leader in charge of that plan. 194 00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:54.320 He put four or five guys in there who all, 195 00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:58.120 instead of cooperating with one another, were competitive. And there 196 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:01.639 was a Jewish lawyer in Los Angeles who caught wind 197 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:03.440 of this, and the plan was just horrible. They were 198 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:06.360 going to kidnap Jewish movie stars Charlie Chaplin. They were 199 00:12:06.360 --> 00:12:09.039 going to kidnap the Moguls, the Louis Vu Mayors, the 200 00:12:09.559 --> 00:12:12.559 Joseph Skaggs, and they were going to hang them in 201 00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:15.159 public areas and then take over the movies. Now, I 202 00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:16.799 don't know how you're going to win the hearts and 203 00:12:16.840 --> 00:12:20.399 minds of Americans by performing public executions. I think that's 204 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:24.559 a miscalculation. But that was the plan. And what the 205 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:28.120 Jewish lawyer did, his name was al Lewis. He put 206 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:30.919 together a team of Jewish people who could pass his 207 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:34.120 gentiles and had them infiltrate the movement. Many of them 208 00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:38.360 were women, and they spread rumors about the four guys 209 00:12:38.360 --> 00:12:40.480 who were all trying to be in charge. This guy's 210 00:12:40.519 --> 00:12:42.200 stabbing this guy in the back, this guy said this 211 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:45.519 about this guy. And pretty soon the effort to take 212 00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:50.559 over Hollywood falls apart, and the Nazis that come in later, 213 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:53.600 the German American Bund, they're reduced to trying to recruit 214 00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:57.000 through homeless men. They set up soup kitchens and then 215 00:12:57.120 --> 00:13:00.080 is now Los Angeles had a conspicuous homeless problem, and 216 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:02.799 they would gather these guys up, feed them and then 217 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:05.840 inundate them with the disinformation about Jews, and if they 218 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:08.039 started saying, hey, yeah, we should kill the Jews, they 219 00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:09.759 got a uniform and they got to go out and 220 00:13:10.360 --> 00:13:15.159 march and have parades. So by the time my book starts, 221 00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:20.600 there's rising fascism with a German Nazi bent in many 222 00:13:20.679 --> 00:13:23.960 of the major cities in America, and Jewish leaders are 223 00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:24.960 starting to get sick of it. 224 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:27.919 You talk about some other groups as well, the Silver 225 00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:32.399 Shirts in this relation to the Christian Front and also 226 00:13:32.799 --> 00:13:36.000 any kind of any connection to the KKK. 227 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:41.559 Well, yeah, the German American Bund was strictly we're Hitler's 228 00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:45.840 army here in the United States. The Silver Shirts, they 229 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:48.519 were run by a guy named William Dudley Pelley, who 230 00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:52.519 is an interesting character. He started out as a scenario 231 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:57.360 writer in Hollywood during Silent movies, and he claimed that 232 00:13:57.440 --> 00:14:00.919 he had a near death experience and had gone to Heaven, 233 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:04.759 had to talk with God, talked with Jesus himself, and 234 00:14:04.879 --> 00:14:07.519 Jesus said, you your work here is not done. You 235 00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:09.639 have to go back to You have to go back 236 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:12.120 to Earth and make sure that you wipe out the Jews, 237 00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:16.120 because that's what I want, and I think everybody knows 238 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:18.960 why Win Wink wink, and this is his Pelly's story. 239 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:24.080 And he starts recruiting right right wing type men once again, 240 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:26.919 giving them uniforms, although in this case they looked more 241 00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:29.759 like boy scouts than army guys. I'm not sure who 242 00:14:29.799 --> 00:14:33.399 designed the uniforms. And because the German American Buddhists were 243 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:36.039 called brown shirts because of their uniforms, he called his 244 00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:38.759 men's silver shirts, although the shirts are actually like blue 245 00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:41.639 in color. And he said that you know, if you're 246 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:44.960 a Christian, you have to be anti Jew, and you 247 00:14:45.039 --> 00:14:48.879 have to be anti Communist. And one of his strongest 248 00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:53.960 mouthpieces was was a Catholic priest who named Father Claughlin, 249 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:56.320 who went on the air in a syndicated show every 250 00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:59.120 Sunday afternoon and would say name the father's son, and 251 00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:03.000 holy ghost, love Hitler and h Jews and not in 252 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:05.559 so many words. He was cleverer than that. He had 253 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:09.279 a very very soft, caressing voice, so it made the 254 00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:12.240 hate speech seem more tolerable. But yeah, by the time 255 00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:15.720 the gangsters started fighting the Nazis in my book, anti 256 00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:18.639 Semitism was in the very air. Oh you mentioned kkk 257 00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:22.919 KKK was of course down with fighting against the Jews. 258 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:25.480 Father Kaughlin got no help from the KKK at all 259 00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:27.679 because he was a Catholic priest and he was on 260 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:30.360 the list of people they hated as well, So that 261 00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:33.120 was that was a problem. But KKK got along with 262 00:15:33.159 --> 00:15:36.759 the Silver Shirts just fine. You know, I think after 263 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:39.200 they had finished wiping out the Jews, they would have 264 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:41.840 gone on to other groups as well, certainly any kind 265 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:45.519 of minority, any kind of infirm person, and eventually even 266 00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:46.200 new Catholics. 267 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:52.000 Let's introduce us congressman, former US Congressman and Special Sessions 268 00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:53.559 Judge Nathan Peerlman. 269 00:15:53.960 --> 00:15:56.240 You say he was born in poland tell us who 270 00:15:56.360 --> 00:15:56.799 he is. 271 00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:00.120 Well, Judge Perlman is the hero of the book. He 272 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:04.159 was a former congressman. He was among the among the 273 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:08.000 congressmen to repeal the voles That Act and bring legal 274 00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:11.720 alcohol back to the United States, for which he was 275 00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:16.000 a hero, considered a hero by drinkers everywhere. He used 276 00:16:16.039 --> 00:16:18.279 to walk into a bar and say, you know, I 277 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:20.320 was one of the guys that voted to end prohibition, 278 00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:23.879 and everybody wanted to buy him a drink. And he 279 00:16:24.519 --> 00:16:26.919 was a judge sitting on the bench in New York 280 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:31.080 City and hated the German American Bund. But the last 281 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:33.840 straw came in nineteenth early nineteen thirty eight when he 282 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:37.559 went to a ceremony in Bowling Green, which is a 283 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:41.279 little section of downtown Manhattan right by the southern not 284 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:43.720 far from the World Trade Center now, and it faces 285 00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:46.240 the US Customs Building, which is a great, big building 286 00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:49.120 with pillars and gorgeous building. And there was a ceremony 287 00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:52.039 by the US Maritimes people on the front steps of 288 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:55.600 the Customs Building, and there were American flags and the 289 00:16:55.879 --> 00:16:58.679 pledge of a legions singing the Star Spangled banner. And 290 00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:02.480 during the ceremony up marches a parade of the German 291 00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:06.160 American Bund with their hate signs and their chanting, you know, 292 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:10.359 kill the Jews and love Hitler. And there was a standoff. 293 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:11.759 It looked like there was going to be a big fight, 294 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:15.039 but eventually the Maritime people moved inside the building, held 295 00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:19.720 their ceremony inside, and it just stuck in Judge Peerlman's crawl, 296 00:17:20.119 --> 00:17:24.160 the fact that good Americans had been forced to retreat 297 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:27.240 because you know, the garbage people were out there saying 298 00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:30.359 the things they were saying. He didn't know what to do, 299 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:32.480 so he went to a bar as he usually did, 300 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:34.960 and he was sitting over a cocktail when he had 301 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:38.000 an idea. So, what these guys need is a good 302 00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:41.640 butt weapon. Yeah, he needed an army, but he didn't 303 00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:43.000 have one. So he's going to have to get when 304 00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:44.640 he was got to be a Jewish army because they 305 00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:46.279 were the only ones who are going to be emotional 306 00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:48.519 enough about this stuff to actually fight. Had to be 307 00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:52.200 an army of guys who didn't mind breaking the law 308 00:17:52.279 --> 00:17:54.359 because they were going to have to punch people and 309 00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:57.440 you'd be comfortable with that. So he The next day 310 00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:00.279 in his chambers, he picks up the phone and he 311 00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:04.839 calls Meyer Lansky, who he knows from some previous relationship. 312 00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:07.799 And I suspect it had more to do with one 313 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:09.799 being a drinker and the other being a bootlegger than 314 00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:11.839 it did with anything to do with one being a 315 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:13.960 judge and one being a criminal. I'll be anything to 316 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:16.640 do with the justice system, but he knows Meyer Lansky. 317 00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:19.480 He says, I need to have a meeting. Says sure, 318 00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:24.039 come on over, and Pearlman brings Rabbi Stephen Wise with him, 319 00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:26.880 just in case he needs to lay some guilt on Lansky. 320 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:29.440 Do what he wants, and it boils down. He says, 321 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:33.559 you know, Meyer, these anti Semites, they're organized, they've got 322 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:36.240 newspapers backing them up. Something needs to be done. And 323 00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:38.400 Lancey says, you know that bugs me too. I think 324 00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:40.440 we're on the same side there, Judge, he says, do 325 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:44.519 you have some boys who might want to punch a Nazi? 326 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:51.200 And Lancey says, well, sure, but to be honest with you, Judge, Rabbi, 327 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:54.319 we can do better than punch, at which point the 328 00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:56.079 Rabbi is no, no, no, no, no no. There must 329 00:18:56.119 --> 00:19:00.240 be no killing. They're the killers, We're not killers. And 330 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:03.319 Lansky sees the wisdom and it's always better not to shoot, 331 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:07.079 and Judge promises, yeah, just but teach them that it 332 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:10.039 can be dangerous to be a Nazi in America. Teach 333 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:12.559 them that we're not soft. We're not just going to 334 00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:14.759 take it. The Jews can be tough, and if they 335 00:19:14.839 --> 00:19:17.599 want to say this stuff about us, they better expect 336 00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:21.359 some blowback. So that's the deal, and they make an agreement. 337 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:24.039 The only thing Lanski asked for is please make sure 338 00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:26.319 you keep my name out of the newspapers and just 339 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:28.680 just find it. And the judge throws in. You know, 340 00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:31.039 if any of you get arrested, you know we'll be 341 00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:33.559 there for you. Don't worry about any of that, he said, ohlor, 342 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:36.680 we're pretty good at avoiding police anyway. So the next 343 00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:39.559 time that the German American Bun's going to get together 344 00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:44.200 is a big rally at the Yorkville Casino on East 345 00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:46.759 eighty sixth Street in Manhattan. And they've been having these 346 00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:49.160 rallies fairly regularly, and they used to parade up and 347 00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:51.880 down eighty sixth Street. See photos of it. It's just chilling. 348 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:57.039 It looks like Macy's Thanksgiving parade, except there's sig hiling 349 00:19:57.119 --> 00:19:59.720 and goosetepp being going on, and there are Nazi flags 350 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:04.640 being next to American flags. So Lansky does some exercises 351 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:09.079 in team building. He takes the Jewish members of Murder Ink, 352 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:12.880 whose people who don't know what murder Ink is. Those 353 00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:16.160 were there was a separate organization from the five Families 354 00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:20.160 of the New York Mafia, and if anyone needed somebody 355 00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:22.880 killed among those five families, it would be a vote 356 00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:25.680 from the bosses, the commission, it was called, and if 357 00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:28.599 they said okay, then the job to kill the guy 358 00:20:29.119 --> 00:20:31.440 was farmed. Out to murder ink and they would go 359 00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:33.599 out and do the job. And they represented none of 360 00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:35.640 the five families. There were a separate entity. And the 361 00:20:35.720 --> 00:20:38.480 idea was to prevent civil wars from breaking out, the 362 00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:41.680 wars between families from breaking out, which is what happened 363 00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:44.680 when anybody was allowed to kill anybody. So it was 364 00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:46.839 an orderly fashion and it was working. And he had 365 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:49.519 guys who knew how to use guns, but not necessarily 366 00:20:49.599 --> 00:20:51.119 guys who knew how to use their fists. Some of 367 00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:53.640 them did because they'd been juvenile delinquents and been a 368 00:20:53.720 --> 00:20:56.559 lot of fights, but some didn't. So what Lansky does 369 00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:58.319 He takes them to Glease in his gym, which at 370 00:20:58.359 --> 00:21:00.240 that times in the Bronx. It's in the dumble section 371 00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:02.799 of Brooklyn. Now it's moved a few times, and Gleason 372 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:06.160 himself teaches these guys how to throw a few combos, 373 00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:09.200 and so by the time the next rally takes place 374 00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:11.960 at the York Hild Casino, the boys are ready and 375 00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:15.920 they split up into three sections. One goes in the 376 00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:19.359 front door, one hangs out outside, and one climbs up 377 00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:21.960 a fire escape and goes into an upstairs window. And 378 00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:25.200 the murdering guys are just shocked by what they see. 379 00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:28.240 I mean, it's Hitler's birthdays. There's a celebration going on. 380 00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:31.160 They're singing Happy Birthday to Hitler. There are American flags 381 00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:34.119 again next to Swastika flags. Up on the stage. There 382 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:36.920 is a portrait of George Washington next to a portrait 383 00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:39.759 of Adolf Hitler. And all of this is because the 384 00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:43.680 first attempt to start a pro Hitler organization in America 385 00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:46.440 was called the Friends of New Germany, and they got 386 00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:50.079 shut down for being anti American. So the new edition 387 00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:53.079 is now called The German American, but says American even 388 00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:55.680 in the name. We're talking about on America. So that 389 00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:57.799 I think that the last thing that is said at 390 00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:00.720 the rally is and the Jews were possible for the 391 00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:04.200 kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby, at which point the fights 392 00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:08.599 start and the closest the gangsters ever came to breaking 393 00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:11.559 the no kill rule, and Lanski himself was part of 394 00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:16.720 this is they did. They dangled a particularly loudmouthed Nazi 395 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:19.839 out the second floor window, so should we should we? 396 00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:21.960 Eventually they dropped him and if he the landed on 397 00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:23.759 his head, he'd have been dead, but he lands on 398 00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:26.200 one leg and breaks his femur instead, and the fight 399 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:29.720 last two three minutes tops. And the reason we have 400 00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:32.119 the details we do is because I'm Jewish journalist by 401 00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:35.000