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Speaker 3: This is Where Did the Road Go? Our aim is
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Speaker 3: week's edition of Where Did the Road Go? Welcome to
Speaker 3: the show, and Yes, this week we're going to be
Speaker 3: talking with Laird's Scranton and his brand new book is
Speaker 3: called Point of Origin Go Beckley Tepe and the Spiritual
Speaker 3: Matrix for the World's cosmologies. And are you there with us, Laird?
Speaker 5: Yes, I am sorry, I'm very glad to be with
Speaker 5: you too.
Speaker 3: The opinions expressed by the hope and I should I
Speaker 3: should stop the other thing from playing? All right?
Speaker 5: So this is this came out last month. Right, Actually
Speaker 5: this has just been out this month. Actually, I guess
Speaker 5: you're right. It was February, not March, so it's within
Speaker 5: the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's on Inner Traditions, right, and you already
Speaker 3: have another book written.
Speaker 5: There's a yeah, there's a follow on to this book
Speaker 5: that that was just submitted last week to the pup share,
Speaker 5: and one in progress that's beyond that.
Speaker 3: So and as I joked with you off the air,
Speaker 3: you're becoming on Nick Redford.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm starting to understand. You know that these actors
Speaker 5: who go on the talk shows at night, you know,
Speaker 5: promoting their film that just came out, but they filmed
Speaker 5: the film like five years ago, and now they have
Speaker 5: to get repped back up into the mindset I put
Speaker 5: over it.
Speaker 3: Right, right, You got to kind of go backwards and
Speaker 3: not give away too much of the new stuff before
Speaker 3: you haven't complete.
Speaker 5: That's right now, go on. Okay, I've sort of broken
Speaker 5: with tradition on a couple occasions and actually talked about
Speaker 5: the next book on one shows. I think the publisher's
Speaker 5: probably not too happy with me when I do that
Speaker 5: sort of thing.
Speaker 3: Well, this, uh, you got one of the pillars from
Speaker 3: Go Beckley Tepe and stuff on the cover here, and
Speaker 3: obviously Go Beckay Tepe is in the subtitle, but it's
Speaker 3: not a book about Go Beckley Tepe. That just played
Speaker 3: a part of it, right.
Speaker 5: And actually there was quite a bit of back and
Speaker 5: forth between me and the publisher about title, because from
Speaker 5: a marketing standpoint, they really wanted to emphasize Gobackley Tepe
Speaker 5: because it's an interesting topic to people these days. But
Speaker 5: I try to argue that the book really isn't about that.
Speaker 5: I don't really want to mislead the readers into thinking
Speaker 5: that that's what this is about. Graham Hancock really says
Speaker 5: it best in his endorsement of the book. He says,
Speaker 5: the book's not about go Beckley Tepe. Instead, it puts
Speaker 5: Go Beckley Tepe into a larger context that tries to
Speaker 5: understand where things go from Go Beckley Tepe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes sense. That definitely describes it really well.
Speaker 3: And your son actually wrote the introduction to this.
Speaker 5: Yes, he has been a very close follower and contributor,
Speaker 5: and my daughter also has contributed to information that has
Speaker 5: helped me along the way. And I thought that this
Speaker 5: was the book he's I know he's a very good writer,
Speaker 5: and I didn't put any limitations on on him on
Speaker 5: what he should or shouldn't say, and just he expresses
Speaker 5: himself really well and he has good insights about the material.
Speaker 5: I thought he was a good choice for a person
Speaker 5: to write the introduction.
Speaker 3: All right, So there's so much information in this book
Speaker 3: it's ridiculous. Now the beginning of the book, you kind
Speaker 3: of have to go over a little bit of the
Speaker 3: stuff in your previous books, and which is really necessary
Speaker 3: for your work, because if people haven't read the four
Speaker 3: books prior to this, they're going to be a little
Speaker 3: lost if they just if you just start up. So
Speaker 3: the first few chapters are are kind of, you know,
Speaker 3: you talking about the previous books, ending in a little
Speaker 3: bit new here and there and some new connections, it
Speaker 3: seems like. But that must be frustrating for you to
Speaker 3: have to keep redoing.
Speaker 5: That a little bit in the upcoming books. I'm trying
Speaker 5: to do less of it because I know that it
Speaker 5: could be a problem for people who are familiar with
Speaker 5: the first books to have to reread that material. So
Speaker 5: what I'm trying to do in future books here is
Speaker 5: provide the information that's needed as a foundation for what
Speaker 5: I'm going to talk about, and just refer back to
Speaker 5: the other books. You'll see this other book if you
Speaker 5: want more detail us about.
Speaker 3: It, right right. But it is hard because you have
Speaker 3: such a thick, thick amount of data, so dense amount
Speaker 3: of data there that people really need to understand to
Speaker 3: understand how important what you're talking about now is.
Speaker 5: Well, So it's a balance to try to strack between
Speaker 5: the two. I think we go four chapters before I
Speaker 5: even mentioned go backly Tepe.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, And now what you're doing here is you're
Speaker 3: kind of tracing back, using cosmology, language and symbol and such,
Speaker 3: the origins of our civilization. Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 5: My wife Reset calls it layered's unified theory. She's afraid
Speaker 5: that if I continue on this path too far, one
Speaker 5: day I'm going to find just the right piece of
Speaker 5: information and the reality is going to go poof. No,
Speaker 5: what I'm trying to do here is I became acquainted
Speaker 5: with go Beckley Tepe a couple of years ago. I
Speaker 5: have I'm friendly with John Anthony West, and he and
Speaker 5: Robert Shock were going to pay a visit to go
Speaker 5: back to Tepe and held a party at John's house
Speaker 5: one evening, a sort of seeing them off kind of party.
Speaker 5: And I had did a little bit of research about
Speaker 5: go back to Tepe for the first time, just to
Speaker 5: be able to talk intelligently about it with them. But
Speaker 5: I could see that there is lots of familiar stuff
Speaker 5: there symbolically, things that that you know just intuitively seem
Speaker 5: to connect to later, later cultures. Even though there's a
Speaker 5: seven thousand year gap between Gobeckley Tepe at ten thousand
Speaker 5: BC in Turkey and ancient Egypt. You had dynastic Egypt
Speaker 5: around three thousand BC in Egypt, plus there's a gap
Speaker 5: of distance also. But so part of the challenge for
Speaker 5: myself was how do you how do you connect this
Speaker 5: stuff forward? If if we're if there's an inkling that
Speaker 5: it does connect forward, what could we possibly do in
Speaker 5: the absence of written texts and that kind of evidence,
Speaker 5: what could possibly be done to try to link this
Speaker 5: stuff positively in a positive way to Egypt and Africa
Speaker 5: and India and Tibetan, China and places like that, right,
Speaker 5: And this is just that was sort of the mission
Speaker 5: statement for myself in writing the book.
Speaker 3: And when when we're trying to get at when you
Speaker 3: make these connections, you kind of hold yourself to pre
Speaker 3: high standard.
Speaker 5: There, I seem to have lost you here, so right,
Speaker 5: I can't hear you.
Speaker 3: Can you hear me? Now?
Speaker 5: Yes? I can.
Speaker 3: That was weird. It seems like I have a bad
Speaker 3: mic here on my computer. So you make I forgot
Speaker 3: what I just said. Okay, Oh, you hold yourself to
Speaker 3: a high standard in how you accept data.
Speaker 5: That that comes out of sort of a self defense
Speaker 5: that I had to had to had to create for myself.
Speaker 5: The problem is that the human psyche is wired to
Speaker 5: find patterns and to seek them out, even when in
Speaker 5: situations where they might not really exist. And so what
Speaker 5: it looks like again, looks like I might have lost
Speaker 5: you here.
Speaker 3: Do you hear me? Yes?
Speaker 5: I can hear you again? Yes? Okay. So the problem is,
Speaker 5: you know, a child looking up at the sky at
Speaker 5: the clouds. You know, it's very easy to imagine images
Speaker 5: that aren't really there, or look there's a rabbit, or
Speaker 5: look there's a horse. Well, the tendency for somebody like
Speaker 5: me who does research on ancient cultures is to perceive
Speaker 5: a pattern or perceive an interpretation and then go pursue
Speaker 5: it and sort of make it a self fulfilling prophecy,
Speaker 5: to look for the factual information that's going to support
Speaker 5: this idea that you came up with out of thin air,
Speaker 5: and so to protect against that, the rule I made
Speaker 5: for myself is that every interpretation has to start with
Speaker 5: a statement on the part of the cultures that I'm studying.
Speaker 5: In other words, they're the ones who said the Dogan,
Speaker 5: are the ones who say that their creation tradition describes
Speaker 5: how matter was formed. I don't they say it, and
Speaker 5: then I just follow what they say. And so that's
Speaker 5: one way of keeping things.
Speaker 3: Rooted right right. Uh. And when you talk about creation traditions,
Speaker 3: it almost seems like there's a duel there there, Like
Speaker 3: there's the creation tradition of how matter is formed, but
Speaker 3: there's also kind of the relaunching of society, as if
Speaker 3: like the end of the ice age wiped everything out.
Speaker 3: And this is also how they they put a plan
Speaker 3: together to civilize us and give us agriculture and things
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 5: Well, that's that's what it looks like to me. But
Speaker 5: it looks like that to me based on statements. The
Speaker 5: clear statements are made by some of the cultures. The
Speaker 5: Buddhists are one the Dogan or one the Egyptians are one.
Speaker 5: For that matter, the Egyptians make several different statements culturally
Speaker 5: about having received instruction or having received civilizing skills from
Speaker 5: an outside source in each of the written language. The
Speaker 5: hieroglyphic language was deemed to have been given to them
Speaker 5: by their gods, and the plan for Gizus supposedly fell
Speaker 5: from the sky, you know, a llah a crop circle. Really, yeah,
Speaker 5: So there are connections here in lot of these cultures.
Speaker 5: But the Dogan are very clear about it, and the
Speaker 5: Buddhists are very clear about it. They flatly say, Look,
Speaker 5: the most essential of the of these symbolic ideas that
Speaker 5: our system is based on, we received from somebody as
Speaker 5: instruction and it was part of it was tagged to
Speaker 5: a civilizing plan that was meant to teach us how
Speaker 5: to be farmers. And so that's sort of the perspective.
Speaker 5: I'm working from a Gobeclea Tepe. And that's lucky because
Speaker 5: in the same region that Gobeckley Tepe is located in
Speaker 5: southeastern near the Fertile Crescent, also near where Mount Ara
Speaker 5: Rat was places like that in that region, that locality
Speaker 5: you find the first evidence of cultivated grains, of domesticated animals,
Speaker 5: of metallurgy working with metal of the stone mason ray
Speaker 5: that quebecle Tappe, excavating and carving stone, and there are
Speaker 5: a number of other things going on in that region
Speaker 5: that make it look like you've got had a major
Speaker 5: revolution in in in civilization in that region. That is
Speaker 5: hard to explain why it happened at Goebekley Tappe. Uh.
Speaker 5: The the carved stones we see there actually precede the
Speaker 5: earliest evidence we have of tools capable of building them.
Speaker 5: That's how early it is.
Speaker 3: And that's that's so fascinating. I mean, and there's h
Speaker 3: there's bound to be other sites like this, I would
Speaker 3: think buried somewhere else in the world.
Speaker 5: Yes, And also it looks to me as if okay,
Speaker 5: go back to tape after about a thousand years. One
Speaker 5: of the interesting things about it is that it was
Speaker 5: deliberately and carefully buried by somebody in a way that
Speaker 5: was meant not to not to damage the carvings on
Speaker 5: the stones, and in a very respectful way. They can
Speaker 5: tell from the materials that were used to fill it
Speaker 5: that this was not natural. You know, like wind blown
Speaker 5: or water carried or anything like that. It's not natural version.
Speaker 5: Somebody deliberately buried the site. As we get on into
Speaker 5: the next books, I talk about a couple of other
Speaker 5: later sites that were also deliberately buried, but where the
Speaker 5: people who buried the sites left symbolic messages as to
Speaker 5: why they did it. And it looks to me as
Speaker 5: if there's deliberate symbolism here. Part of it is to say, look,
Speaker 5: this site completed its purpose, and our burying it shows
Speaker 5: you that that if if the purpose had been interrupted,
Speaker 5: it wouldn't have been buried. But because it was, it
Speaker 5: came to full completion, bearing at a sort of a
Speaker 5: ritual that says that now.
Speaker 3: Now, if I remember right, Andrew Collins had suggested that
Speaker 3: parts of quebecley Tepe were buried and then new parts built.
Speaker 5: It was built over time at different archaeological levels, sort
Speaker 5: of stratgific levels. There are multiple stone circles that are
Speaker 5: all very much like one another at quebeckle Tepe. It's
Speaker 5: hard to explain why was that done, because clearly, you know,
Speaker 5: in some cultures a structure had to be rebuilt, or
Speaker 5: an older temple was superseded by a newer temple. But
Speaker 5: these structures, there was nothing wrong with them. There was
Speaker 5: no reason to decommission them, especially to build another structure
Speaker 5: that was just exactly like it, or almost exactly like it.
Speaker 5: And so from my point of view, it makes a
Speaker 5: lot more sense to look at these as sort of
Speaker 5: the final projects of students who were taught stone skills,
Speaker 5: stone working skills. If you imagine that that that might
Speaker 5: be possible, that might go a long way to explaining
Speaker 5: why in various regions of the planet we see such
Speaker 5: similarity in stone work. One one possible solution is they
Speaker 5: were all taught by the same.
Speaker 3: People, right, right, and uh, that goes back to who
Speaker 3: were those people who taught that? I mean the the
Speaker 3: the most popular view is that either it's ancient aliens
Speaker 3: or the Anaki, who may or may not have been aliens.
Speaker 3: But you don't if I remember it, you don't think
Speaker 3: the Onanaki were a people.
Speaker 5: These these questions are difficult ones because of the way
Speaker 5: this system, this creation system and civilizing plan work. I'll
Speaker 5: try to explain that a little bit from the perspective
Speaker 5: of the Dogan and the Buddhists. When we talk about create.
Speaker 5: In the ancient mindset, we're talking about three themes of creations,
Speaker 5: at least three themes of creation simultaneously, we're talking about
Speaker 5: how the universe form, how matterforms, and how function happens
Speaker 5: and in the outlook of the doga and those processes
Speaker 5: are so fundamentally similar to one another that a single
Speaker 5: set of symbols is used to simultaneously describe all three themes.
Speaker 5: And so anytime you are talking about the meaning of
Speaker 5: a symbol, you can only talk about it intelligently if
Speaker 5: if you couch that in relation to one of those themes.
Speaker 5: What does a hemisphere mean? In relation to biological reproduction,
Speaker 5: it symbolizes a womb, a woman's expanded womb. If we're
Speaker 5: talking about matter or the formation of matter, a hemisphere
Speaker 5: represents the concept of expanding mass. In biology reproduction, the
Speaker 5: process begins with a fertilized egg. If we're talking about
Speaker 5: the formation of the universe, it begins with a cosmogonic egg.
Speaker 5: And so each of these symbols carries nuances of symbolism
Speaker 5: that are different if we're talking about creation of the
Speaker 5: universe as opposed to creation of matter, and so it
Speaker 5: gets a little bit complex. To distinguish what is symbolic
Speaker 5: and what is cosmological as opposed to what is factually historic.
Speaker 5: And in terms of the Anonak, there's a level at
Speaker 5: which everything about the concept of the Ananoke looks like
Speaker 5: it's symbolical biological reproduction to me. And so I don't
Speaker 5: have I don't have firm reasons yet to think that
Speaker 5: it goes beyond that to a historic level. That doesn't
Speaker 5: mean that it doesn't. It just means that I don't
Speaker 5: have that information. You have to be able to bind
Speaker 5: that down. But it's entirely possible that it's completely cosmological
Speaker 5: and it's about creation.
Speaker 3: Okay, Now, just a few minutes ago, you mentioned the
Speaker 3: Giza plateau being laid out and coming down. Is that
Speaker 3: part of your work with Ed Nightingale.
Speaker 5: Yes, sort of. In the tradition in Egypt is that
Speaker 5: the plan quote unquote fell from the sky. They don't
Speaker 5: explain what that means, and I'm imagining that it implies something.
Speaker 5: I can to two crop circles, because we certainly have
Speaker 5: seen geometry fall from the sky before. Ed Ed Nightingale
Speaker 5: is a very good friend of mine. He's a master
Speaker 5: wood carver from Pennsylvania. He's restored artifacts for the the
Speaker 5: the popes in Rome in the battle. He's this is
Speaker 5: a really talented guy, and he spent the last twenty
Speaker 5: years sort of reverse engineering what the layout of the
Speaker 5: structures on the Giza plateau is about. He tried, he's
Speaker 5: he's come up with a very compelling rationale opinion for
Speaker 5: why things were placed the way they were. He can
Speaker 5: derive it all from a grid, basically, a grid that
Speaker 5: makes sense historically and cosmologically in about fourteen other ways.
Speaker 5: And it makes sense mathematically and geometrically, and it ties
Speaker 5: to the way all the concepts of constellations were laid out,
Speaker 5: you know, in the universe above us. There's all sorts
Speaker 5: of different things that ties into and it seems really
Speaker 5: sensible to me. And I cooperated with him on trying
Speaker 5: to get his book written this last year.
Speaker 3: Okay, is that out?
Speaker 5: Yes, it's out. It's called The Giza Template, and that's
Speaker 5: available you know, through through Amazon and places like that.
Speaker 5: I'm listed as co author on the book, but the
Speaker 5: bulk of the writing and the work is his, Okay,
Speaker 5: sort of, My wife Reesa and I acted at his
Speaker 5: as his editors and people to bounce you know, sounding
Speaker 5: boards to bounce ideas back and forth. With a lot
Speaker 5: of his work and a lot of the meetings he
Speaker 5: comes up with overlap with things I've researched, and so
Speaker 5: we were able to sort of narrow in on some
Speaker 5: of the perspectives he was he was gaining through discussion,
Speaker 5: and I think we generally encouraged him to just find
Speaker 5: a way to get the book finished.
Speaker 3: Nice Okay, A Cast recommends, how are you doing there?
Speaker 4: This is David from the David McWilliams podcast, the podcast
Speaker 4: that makes economics as comprehensible as possible. We are going
Speaker 4: to look at economics through the lens of the World
Speaker 4: Cup and the special World Cup Economics series. We're going
Speaker 4: to look at countries, We're going to look at players,
Speaker 4: we're going to look at culture, but we're also going
Speaker 4: to look at the economies of the countries involved in
Speaker 4: this World Cup as it onfold. So this is one
Speaker 4: for economics fans who happened to be into football, football
Speaker 4: fans who happened to be into economics. That's all on
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Speaker 3: So one of the cosmological themes you keep coming back
Speaker 3: to in this book for all these different cultures, you
Speaker 3: see in importance of Sirius, of Orion and of Bernard's loop,
Speaker 3: and why why do you think these three points are
Speaker 3: so important?
Speaker 5: That's a hard concept to explain. The Dogans say that
Speaker 5: the Dogan have a similar practice to the Egyptians. In Egypt,
Speaker 5: what we see on the Giza plateau are stones set
Speaker 5: out that seem to symbolize stars. Robert Bobal thinks that
Speaker 5: the three pyramids at Geza represent the belt stars of Orion. Now,
Speaker 5: the Dogan have a similar practice where they place large
Speaker 5: stones on a plateau to represent stars that are important
Speaker 5: in their cosmology, including the three belt stars of Orion.
Speaker 5: And with those three they say that the reason that
Speaker 5: they're placing those stones is to draw our attention to
Speaker 5: something that they call the Chariot of Orion. The French
Speaker 5: anthropologists who studied the Dogan imagine that the Chariot of
Speaker 5: Orion was somehow represented by the entire constellation of Orion,
Speaker 5: and that's sort of the way he pictures it in
Speaker 5: his book. But when we get down to it, we
Speaker 5: realize there's something else going on. It comes down to
Speaker 5: associations between the concept of a cubit and the concept
Speaker 5: of a light. Here to get to this, in Dogan cosmology,
Speaker 5: there's a character who represents light, who measures out the
Speaker 5: universe in eight billion steps. Well, I know the universe
Speaker 5: doesn't measure eight billion steps. I also know that the
Speaker 5: word step is code. It's cosmological code, a symbolic word
Speaker 5: that means cuban. But the visible universe does measure eight
Speaker 5: billion light years approximately. So it looked to me as
Speaker 5: if someone were setting up a correlation between cubans and
Speaker 5: light years. So I asked myself, how did we know
Speaker 5: how big a cubit was? Well, that takes us back
Speaker 5: to the dimensions of the Great Pyramid, which measures four
Speaker 5: hundred and forty cubits per side and two hundred and
Speaker 5: eighty cubits high. I also knew that Robert Boball thought
Speaker 5: that the pyramids pointed to Orion. So I went to
Speaker 5: a search engine on my computer. I went to Google,
Speaker 5: and I keyed in four forty two eighty and Orion
Speaker 5: impressed enter and what it turned up were references to
Speaker 5: an almost invisible spiraling birthplace of stars that circles around
Speaker 5: the belt stars of Orion. It centers on the belt
Speaker 5: stars of Iran. It's called Barnard's Loop. It can only
Speaker 5: be imaged through time lapse photograh graphy, and when you
Speaker 5: image it, it looks like the wheel of a chariot
Speaker 5: that Orian the hundred is standing in. And to my
Speaker 5: way of thinking, this is what the Dogun're referring to
Speaker 5: when they talk about the chariot of Orian. So there
Speaker 5: are symbolic associations between serious the stars of Orian and
Speaker 5: Barnard's Loop. They are sort of associated in a triad
Speaker 5: with one another. One of the chapters in the new book,
Speaker 5: Point of Origin, talks about concepts of ascension, and this
Speaker 5: is again a difficult one to get at, but the
Speaker 5: notion is that there's more going on here than just
Speaker 5: the material universe that we live in. There actually is
Speaker 5: a second paired universe that behaves a lot like dark
Speaker 5: matter does in science, but it represents a realm that's
Speaker 5: associated with our universe, intimately associated with our universe, but
Speaker 5: that we can't actually see. According to the Buddha, there
Speaker 5: is a gate that exists between our material universe and
Speaker 5: this second universe that they call a non material universe,
Speaker 5: and the instructions that they give for how you find
Speaker 5: this gate involve directional information that connects Orion's Belt and
Speaker 5: Barnard's Loop with the stars of Sirius. So Barnard soop
Speaker 5: ends up becoming important from the concepts of ascension, the
Speaker 5: concept of accessions, ascension meaning finding a way to reach
Speaker 5: that gateway between the two dimensions. Barnard Loop is wrapped
Speaker 5: up in that. There's a lot more to it than that.
Speaker 5: And anytime we talk about triads or trinities in the
Speaker 5: archaic tradition, from my perspective, that's what we're implying. We're
Speaker 5: implying that we're talking about serious and Barnard's Loop and
Speaker 5: Orion's belt.
Speaker 3: All right, And this is where it gets really deep,
Speaker 3: when you get into the whole dual universe thing. And
Speaker 3: I mean, if you're right, how would they how would
Speaker 3: these ancient peoples have known about this stuff? I mean,
Speaker 3: this is beyond what we know technically.
Speaker 5: Right, well, pretty much pretty much everything that the dog
Speaker 5: can tell us that is scientifically based goes beyond what
Speaker 5: we know. When they talk about matter, they talk about
Speaker 5: all of the same structures that Stephen Hawking or Brian
Speaker 5: Green talks about. But they also go further down the
Speaker 5: scale than Brian Green or Stephen Hawking to. They go
Speaker 5: so far as to talk about, how is it exactly
Speaker 5: that an act of perception causes matter to change his
Speaker 5: behavior from being like waves to being like particles. There's
Speaker 5: a reason that happens, and the dog can talk about
Speaker 5: it that the master physicists don't.
Speaker 3: What do they say about it?
Speaker 5: Okay? Again, these are not easy topics. According to Einstein,
Speaker 5: the reason the speed of light is constant no matter
Speaker 5: how fast you travel is because the faster we go,
Speaker 5: the more time frame slows down, and so the speed
Speaker 5: of light looks to us as if it's traveling as
Speaker 5: fast as it always was because our frame of reference
Speaker 5: has slowed down. That's what basically equals MC squared says.
Speaker 5: It says, no matter how fast we go, the speed
Speaker 5: of light is always going to look like it's going
Speaker 5: the same speed in front of us, right you would? Okay,
Speaker 5: So acceleration or speeding up is an equivalent to an
Speaker 5: increase in mass. Scientifically, that a body that becomes more
Speaker 5: massive is effectively the same as if you've accelerated the body.
Speaker 5: It's just like if you accelerate your car, it's harder
Speaker 5: to stop it, just as if it were heavier, when
Speaker 5: it's not really heavier. Okay, So as you go down
Speaker 5: this scale down to where matter behaves like waves. At
Speaker 5: the point where it behaves like waves, it virtually has
Speaker 5: no mass. But if it has no mass, then this
Speaker 5: whole structure of time frame that slows down as you
Speaker 5: get more massive must be speeding up as you get
Speaker 5: less massive. The idea is, when you get down to
Speaker 5: the bottom of the structure, events must be happening at
Speaker 5: at an ultra fast time frame compared to ours. In
Speaker 5: other words, effectively everything happens at once when you get
Speaker 5: down to the waves. Now, it also means that those
Speaker 5: waves have no acceleration. So Heisenberg says that if we
Speaker 5: are dealing with a small enough particle, the simple act
Speaker 5: of observing it has to disturb it. There's no other choice.
Speaker 5: That it reaches a point where we can't know simultaneously
Speaker 5: know the location and the momentum of a particle because
Speaker 5: our act of observing it disturbs it. So when you
Speaker 5: get down to these massless waves, if you have to
Speaker 5: disturb them, and they don't have any mass to begin with.
Speaker 5: The only thing an active perception can do is part
Speaker 5: a little bit of mass to it. And when you
Speaker 5: do that, you cause a wave. According to the Dogan,
Speaker 5: you cause the wave to sort of draw up. Like
Speaker 5: imagine if you had a very thin sheet of plastic
Speaker 5: and you grabbed it in the middle and pulled it
Speaker 5: up from the middle. That's conceptually what happens to these
Speaker 5: waves when they're perceived and they and like a car
Speaker 5: that's traveling very quickly and you slam on the brakes.
Speaker 5: You know you call when you slam on the brakes,
Speaker 5: you cause the car to start vibrating and shimming a
Speaker 5: little bit. Well, that same kind of vibration happens to
Speaker 5: this wave when you when you impart that little bit
Speaker 5: of mass to the mass to it. It's like you're
Speaker 5: slim slamming on the brakes in terms of time frame.
Speaker 5: And so you create vibration and you create a twisting motion,
Speaker 5: a complicated twisting motion. It's the best way to describe
Speaker 5: the motion is it's a pivot. Imagine that you had
Speaker 5: a bar with two weights and a weight on either
Speaker 5: end of the bar and that that bar could be
Speaker 5: balanced on a second bar with a point like like
Speaker 5: you would have on us scales. This the bar with
Speaker 5: weights on it could then pivot in any any different direction.
Speaker 5: It could pivot down and around and up and around
Speaker 5: in circles and so forth. That's what matter is described
Speaker 5: as being able to do. And at the same time,
Speaker 5: it also goes through phase transitions, which is the idea
Speaker 5: of water freezing to become ice more water boiling and
Speaker 5: becoming vapor. Phase transitions like that happen, and through that
Speaker 5: process this wave ends up sort of curling around. It
Speaker 5: creates bubbles. Exceptually, and just like when you're blowing bubbles
Speaker 5: with a bubble wand the first couple of bubbles you
Speaker 5: blow don't hold together, right, they pop until you get
Speaker 5: enough soap on the On the soap, you can't form
Speaker 5: a bubble that has enough tensil strength to hold together.
Speaker 5: And that's what happens with matter too, that as these
Speaker 5: bubbles start to form, the first six of them pop,
Speaker 5: and the seventh one finally has enough tensil strength to
Speaker 5: be able to support its own weight for a period
Speaker 5: of time, and so that becomes this cluster of little
Speaker 5: popped bubbles becomes the fundamental structure of matter, and it
Speaker 5: can be looked at as a cluster of bubbles, or
Speaker 5: it can be looked at it in another way as
Speaker 5: a sort of little spiraling vortex like a water a
Speaker 5: water whirlpool that spins around. The dynamics actually of a
Speaker 5: whirlpool are scientifically the same as the dynamics of a
Speaker 5: black hole. And from the perspective of the Dogan and
Speaker 5: also the perspective of the perspective of an astronomic theory
Speaker 5: called torsion theory, it's the spinning of these tiny vortices
Speaker 5: at every point in space and time that cause gravity. Essentially,
Speaker 5: you have teeny tiny black holes in every point in
Speaker 5: space and time.
Speaker 3: Huh, all right, And you find some semblance of this
Speaker 3: in every culture that you're looking at.
Speaker 5: Yes, there are not just semblances of it. But in
Speaker 5: one of the books I wrote called the Cosmological Origins
Speaker 5: of Myth and Symbol, that's a mouthful that I try
Speaker 5: to lay out what I consider to be signatures of
Speaker 5: the tradition. For example, any culture that talks about a
Speaker 5: wheel or a chariot associated with oryan clearly knows about
Speaker 5: this tradition. Any culture that uses cubits as their first
Speaker 5: unit of measure clearly was connected with this tradition. And
Speaker 5: so I lay out a whole series of things that
Speaker 5: if you find this concept in the culture, that's a signature.
Speaker 5: It means that they were connected at one point or
Speaker 5: another to the tradition. All right, and go on, no,
Speaker 5: go ahead, that's right.
Speaker 3: When when you're talking about this this dual reality concept too,
Speaker 3: this is where some of these teachers are supposed to
Speaker 3: have come.
Speaker 5: From, right, Okay, the Buddhists. When when you in the
Speaker 5: first couple of pages of the study that I have
Speaker 5: that describes the Buddhist cosmology that aligns with this Dogan
Speaker 5: system I'm talking about, the authority on the Buddhist system says,
Speaker 5: the most sacred symbols in Buddhism are deemed to have
Speaker 5: been given to humanity by a non human source. He
Speaker 5: flatly says it. Now, the Dogans say, not only was
Speaker 5: it a non human source, but it was also a
Speaker 5: non material source. But in a very complicated way. One
Speaker 5: of the key issues that the teachers of the Dogan had,
Speaker 5: according to the Dogan priests, was they were learned about
Speaker 5: what the long term effects of our contact with them
Speaker 5: were going to be on us. It wasn't safe for
Speaker 5: us to be around them for a long period of time.
Speaker 5: And so their solution to that problem was to sequester
Speaker 5: eight Dogan tribes people at a remote location and go
Speaker 5: backly tappy looks like that one of those remote locations,
Speaker 5: and then instruct those eight tribes people in the civilizing
Speaker 5: skills and the cosmology at that remote site, and then
Speaker 5: deliver them back to their original homeland and let them
Speaker 5: teach their tribe mates about the information. And so all
Speaker 5: around the world and South America and China and Asia
Speaker 5: and the Africa and every place you look, pretty much
Speaker 5: you have this tradition of eight mythical ancestors who brought
Speaker 5: civilizing skills with them in ancient times. So that's that's
Speaker 5: where that where that comes from. But the idea is
Speaker 5: that the teachers who imparted this stuff, first of all,
Speaker 5: they were not providing us with theory. They knew how
Speaker 5: things work and it worked, and they were giving us
Speaker 5: the straight truth about how things like matterform. This is
Speaker 5: not I think string theory might be right. It's listen, guys,
Speaker 5: this is how it works.
Speaker 3: And this I mean it sort of connects them to
Speaker 3: the ancient alien thing. But at no point do they
Speaker 3: necessarily say these are like nuts and bolts aliens. In fact,
Speaker 3: quite the opposite.
Speaker 5: No, And really the whole question of aliens ends up
Speaker 5: shrinking to nothing. And I'll try to explain why that is.
Speaker 5: There's some people who think that this ancient tradition came
Speaker 5: it was a remnant of a prior culture that got
Speaker 5: decimated by the Ice Age. The idea is that humanity
Speaker 5: became civilized a long time ago, and there's science of
Speaker 5: that might be true, but the nature of the information,
Speaker 5: the scientific information that's in this tradition is so advanced.
Speaker 5: We're talking about what's outside of our universe, and we're
Speaker 5: talking about what existed before our universe. These are questions
Speaker 5: that your average academic is not going to be able
Speaker 5: to figure out without also being space capable. And so
Speaker 5: even if you were to assign this knowledge to an
Speaker 5: ancient culture, the implication is that they had the ability
Speaker 5: to go out in space and research these things. In
Speaker 5: other words, they were the space aliens, right, Okay, So
Speaker 5: it's a mood question. It's either we were smart enough
Speaker 5: to be able to go out and do that or
Speaker 5: somebody else was smart enough to come here.
Speaker 3: Well, isn't it also possible if they come from a
Speaker 3: dual universe, like another universe that says connected to ours,
Speaker 3: that they may have a view of it that is
Speaker 3: different from ours, that is not as limited.
Speaker 5: Yes, And that's one of the things that are going on.
Speaker 5: The idea with these this non material and the material
Speaker 5: universe is that the non material side can see us,
Speaker 5: but we can't see them. The non material side has
Speaker 5: perfect knowledge, but because they live in a massless universe,
Speaker 5: there is no duration of time. Basically the dimension of
Speaker 5: time doesn't exist. All events happen at once, and because
Speaker 5: there's no duration of time, there's no ability to act
Speaker 5: compared to us. Now on our side, on the material side,
Speaker 5: we have imperfect knowledge, but we have perfect ability to act.
Speaker 5: And so there's sort of a yin yang going on
Speaker 5: between the two universes where the idea in some of
Speaker 5: the philosophies that underlie this stuff is that there are
Speaker 5: active attempts being made from the non material side to
Speaker 5: induce us to act in certain ways. Playing a game
Speaker 5: of password or a game of charades where you're not
Speaker 5: allowed to come out and actually directly say the thing
Speaker 5: that you want or the thing that is the answer,
Speaker 5: you can only hint at it, and through those hints
Speaker 5: try to induce somebody to give you the answer. And
Speaker 5: that's the sort of thing that these ancient philosophies are
Speaker 5: describing as going on, you know, vivid dreams that some
Speaker 5: you know, a spiritual person has a vivid dream and
Speaker 5: claims to receive knowledge from some higher source that turns
Speaker 5: out to be correct or coincidental references turn up in
Speaker 5: the daily life of a person over and over and
Speaker 5: over again until they decide to pay attention to them
Speaker 5: and that leads them to something or even people like
Speaker 5: Tesla and Einstein claimed that there were some non traditional
Speaker 5: things going on with the information that they were presenting.
Speaker 3: And it also I may have mentioned this last time
Speaker 3: you were on, but it makes me think of John
Speaker 3: Keell's work when he talks about whatever these UFO things are,
Speaker 3: whatever these occupants and such are, they seem to know
Speaker 3: stuff that they shouldn't be able to know unless they
Speaker 3: were outside of our universe, which is part of why
Speaker 3: he leans toward the whole ultra terrestrial idea that they're
Speaker 3: coming here from another dimension or someplace above us. Where
Speaker 3: they can see the future past and it's all one
Speaker 3: thing to them.
Speaker 5: I think there's that aspect to it, but I don't
Speaker 5: rule out the possibility that there is what I call
Speaker 5: the traditional sci fi alien aspect to it. Also, there
Speaker 5: are signs that there might have been Okay, if you
Speaker 5: imagine the Ice Age is having been a great calamity
Speaker 5: akin to a cyclone coming through New Orleans, I mean
Speaker 5: hurricane coming through New Orleans, or let's say, an epidemic
Speaker 5: hitting Haiti, that sort of thing. Now, a group like
Speaker 5: the Peace Corps in from the outside and makes a
Speaker 5: sincere effort to try to help that group get back
Speaker 5: on their feet. Well, it looks to me as if
Speaker 5: after the Ice Age somebody came here and did that
Speaker 5: for us. But it also looks like they might have
Speaker 5: been delegated by somebody else to do it, and that
Speaker 5: it might not have been one group, but a consortium
Speaker 5: of several groups that did it, And some of them
Speaker 5: may have been non material and some of them might
Speaker 5: not have been huh, And so there may be an
Speaker 5: intermix of things going on. Based on some of the
Speaker 5: ancient images that you see some of these cultures having
Speaker 5: created that are really, really hard to explain. How did
Speaker 5: the hunter gatherer think to imagine somebody that looked like.
Speaker 3: This, right right? Well, I think also you have some
Speaker 3: evidence that altered states of consciousness might have played into that.
Speaker 3: And again, I mean maybe that's also touching on this
Speaker 3: other universe.
Speaker 5: It might be, and some people trying to emphasize that
Speaker 5: the idea that through the use of particular drugs like
Speaker 5: ayahuasca or things like that, that a person can improve
Speaker 5: their ability to connect to this non material side. And
Speaker 5: it might be possible that they can. But in the
Speaker 5: traditions that I study that have done the best job
Speaker 5: of preserving this stuff, there is no hint, there is
Speaker 5: no recommendation that that is the way that it ought
Speaker 5: to be done. The perspective is that it's a matter
Speaker 5: of paying attention to the things that are going on
Speaker 5: in our real domain, the domain of our real world,
Speaker 5: that there are clues that this is happening. I'll give
Speaker 5: you an example, another example. When my wife, RecA and
Speaker 5: I had our first baby, our sun Isaac. He was
Speaker 5: bottle fed. And when you feed a baby a bottle,
Speaker 5: after a period of time, they're getting some air along
Speaker 5: with the milk. You have to stop and put them
Speaker 5: on your shoulder for a minute to burp them and
Speaker 5: let the air come out before you feed them, try
Speaker 5: to feed them more milk. Well, we noticed by paying
Speaker 5: attention to him, close attention to him, that after a
Speaker 5: period of time, he started raising his arms up when
Speaker 5: he wanted to burn. And when we figured that out
Speaker 5: and noticed him raising his arms, he communicated to us
Speaker 5: when he was ready to burn. We put him on
Speaker 5: his shoulder, he'd burped, and that was it. We didn't
Speaker 5: have to guess anymore. Right, Well, in my experience and
Speaker 5: in the experience of some of the other researchers I
Speaker 5: know who were involved in this field, there may be
Speaker 5: similar things going on in the real world that we're
Speaker 5: not used to paying attention to, and that by simply
Speaker 5: paying attention to them and taking them seriously and considering
Speaker 5: what would it mean if this If these this coincidence
Speaker 5: wasn't really a coincidence. What if the fact that the
Speaker 5: same concept has come up five times in the last
Speaker 5: week in different situations, maybe that means I need to
Speaker 5: explore that concept. Or if this vivid image has turned
Speaker 5: up in my dream three nights in a row, maybe
Speaker 5: I need to consider why.
Speaker 3: Right a right, following synchronicity.
Speaker 5: Right, and just being willing to ask the question what if,
Speaker 5: realizing that some of it is wishful and some of
Speaker 5: it isn't, and that you have to develop skills for
Speaker 5: distinguishing the wishful from the non mishial.
Speaker 3: All right, well, we got to take a quick break
Speaker 3: and we'll be right back with Large scranton. The opinions
Speaker 3: expressed by the host and guests on Where Did the
Speaker 3: Road Go are their own and not necessarily those of
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Speaker 3: tonight we are talking with Laird Scranton. Laird's latest book
Speaker 3: is Point of Origin, Go Beckley Tepe and the Spiritual
Speaker 3: Matrix for the World's Cosmologies. It's out on intertraditions. And
Speaker 3: all your books have been on inter traditions, haven't they all?
Speaker 5: But the first one, the very first one, I self
Speaker 5: published through Ex Libris. It was called Hidden Meanings, and
Speaker 5: that book eventually found John Anthony West and he was
Speaker 5: instrumental in finding in their traditions to republish it as
Speaker 5: the Science of the Dogan. And then since that I
Speaker 5: published with them. But I would encourage anybody who has
Speaker 5: an inkling to write a book not to be afraid
Speaker 5: to self publish it. It's so inexpensive to do it
Speaker 5: these days that it's worthwhile doing.
Speaker 3: Okay, now, one of the things you talk about briefly
Speaker 3: was hints of another group of non material beings that
Speaker 3: maybe don't want to help mankind.
Speaker 5: The way that the esoteric tradition works in these ancient cultures. Again,
Speaker 5: the best example is the Dogan in Dogan culture. If
Speaker 5: you're a priest, and I'm an initiate. As long as
Speaker 5: the question that I ask you is appropriate to my
Speaker 5: initiated status, you're required to give me a truthful answer.
Speaker 5: But if I or anybody else comes to you and
Speaker 5: asks you a question that is inappropriate to our initiated status,
Speaker 5: you're required either to remain silent or to lie if
Speaker 5: you have to to protect the secrets of the tradition. Now,
Speaker 5: that structure means that any Dogan tribes person, male or female,
Speaker 5: can potentially learn the innermost secrets of the tradition if
Speaker 5: they continue to pursue it and continue to ask the
Speaker 5: next question that is pertinent, you know, that comes up
Speaker 5: that presents itself. However, an outsider can't learn it. An
Speaker 5: outsider who comes in and tries to find out about
Speaker 5: it will be met with either silence or people saying
Speaker 5: I'd never heard of that, I don't know what you're
Speaker 5: talking about, which actually there was a Belgian anthropologist who
Speaker 5: went in and tried to restudy the Dogan on a
Speaker 5: short timeframe, didn't have a working relationship with the long
Speaker 5: term working relationship with the priests who knew the stuff,
Speaker 5: and he came away feeling like I compare it to
Speaker 5: a parent who goes to freshman weekend at a college
Speaker 5: and comes away having not seen any evidence of alcohol
Speaker 5: or drug use. Fair enough, now, that tradition makes it
Speaker 5: look like someone was trying to hide information from somebody. There.
Speaker 5: If you're hiding information from outsiders, you must expect that
Speaker 5: there are outsiders who are trying to learn about it.
Speaker 5: And the likeliest motives I can think of for doing
Speaker 5: that are either you're providing instruction that somebody else doesn't
Speaker 5: want you to provide. That's the likeliest region, right, because
Speaker 5: surely you're not. The information itself is not top secret
Speaker 5: because any tribes person can learn it if they sue it.
Speaker 5: So that makes me think that there's a second group. Okay,
Speaker 5: Now you get down to around fifteen hundred BC to
Speaker 5: the jealous God, and the very first statement of jealous
Speaker 5: God makes is you will have no other gods before me?
Speaker 5: Right that the Hebrew scholars looked to that statement and
Speaker 5: they said, this statement implies that there were other gods.
Speaker 3: Right, that makes sense.
Speaker 5: Okay, So it looks to me as if there were
Speaker 5: two groups in competition with one another. And you look
Speaker 5: at a myth like the story of Adam and Eve
Speaker 5: in the Garden of Eden. The transgression that the serpent made,
Speaker 5: and the serpent is a symbol that's associated with the
Speaker 5: archaic traditions that I'm pursuing. The transgression the serpent made
Speaker 5: was providing knowledge, and I think specifically providing scientific knowledge.
Speaker 5: It looks to me as if the group that came
Speaker 5: here to help us was delegated with the understanding that
Speaker 5: they wouldn't give us science, and during the period of
Speaker 5: time between when they were delegated and when they actually
Speaker 5: got here to teach us, they realized the same thing
Speaker 5: that any parent, any good parent, realizes, if you're going
Speaker 5: to tell your child a fable about where babies come from,
Speaker 5: it needs to be based on some facts so that
Speaker 5: later on, when they get the hard truth about how
Speaker 5: children are created, that the myth you told them will
Speaker 5: have provided a foundation for them to learn that. And
Speaker 5: so whoever provided us with instruction in ancient times tried
Speaker 5: to do it in a way that laid a coherent
Speaker 5: foundation for us Scientifically, there's no other way to do it,
Speaker 5: no other ethical way to do it, and so I
Speaker 5: think the transgression was that the group that was trying
Speaker 5: to teach us made the mistake of actually giving us
Speaker 5: the real science, and the second group was trying to
Speaker 5: circummit that.
Speaker 3: Now, one of the things you mentioned a number of
Speaker 3: times in these cultures is the the idea that our
Speaker 3: universe has a flaw. Can you talk a little bit
Speaker 3: about that.
Speaker 5: Yes, this flaw is really the characteristic that distinguishes a
Speaker 5: non material universe from a material one, and it has
Speaker 5: to do with the sequence in which certain these events
Speaker 5: of creation happens. There are its conceptualized as eight stages
Speaker 5: of creation, and as the Dogan describe it, when our universe,
Speaker 5: our material universe formed, the eighth stage happened before the
Speaker 5: seventh one. It wasn't supposed to. Now, if you think
Speaker 5: of the fundamental unit of matter as forming as a spiral,
Speaker 5: what this cause to mind is I give it. Some
Speaker 5: other descriptions that I can give is sushi. There are
Speaker 5: two different kinds of sushi. There's the kind of sushi
Speaker 5: where the seaweed wraps around the outside of the rice,
Speaker 5: and there's the kind of sushi or the seaweed wraps
Speaker 5: around the inside of the rice. My feeling, based on
Speaker 5: the cultures I've studied, is that that represents the fundamental
Speaker 5: difference between what creates a non material universe and a
Speaker 5: material one. That the idea is in this spiral matter
Speaker 5: or mass wraps around light, and light is the essence
Speaker 5: of the non matural universe, and mass or matter is
Speaker 5: the essence of the material one.
Speaker 3: Hmm. Okay, all right, Let people wrap their heads around
Speaker 3: that one for a moment. Now, one of the things
Speaker 3: you also mentioned about the two universes is that there's
Speaker 3: talk of their reversals. Now, what is meant by that?
Speaker 5: An idea that's presented in several of these cultures is
Speaker 5: that the two universes formed, but in a way that
Speaker 5: is destined ultimately to reverse places with one another. As
Speaker 5: they say that eventually everything that's material will become non
Speaker 5: material and everything that's non material would become material. That
Speaker 5: reversal will happen. That falls in the category of things
Speaker 5: that somebody I know and trust says it's going to happen,
Speaker 5: but I don't have actual proof it is.
Speaker 3: Right right, Okay. Now, you've written a book on Velakowski
Speaker 3: as well that we've talked to you about. I think
Speaker 3: the first interview we did was on Velakowski. Now, in
Speaker 3: researching all this have you found anything new about calendar
Speaker 3: length and of the stuff, Velakowski says, I haven't.
Speaker 5: Found anything that contradicts of Velakovski. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 5: a lot of the techniques that I use to explore
Speaker 5: this stuff are very similar to what Belakovski used in
Speaker 5: writing his books. And that's part of the reason I
Speaker 5: feel like a kinship with him and felt like I
Speaker 5: needed to write a book that followed up on some
Speaker 5: of his work. Is because we're approaching things in the
Speaker 5: same basic way. To characterize that, we're making qualitative arguments,
Speaker 5: not quantitative ones. And now that's also how Einstein worked.
Speaker 5: Einstein didn't sit down with a calculator and a pen
Speaker 5: and paper and do math. He basically created a bunch
Speaker 5: of conceptual mind games or mind puzzles for himself. He imagined,
Speaker 5: for example, what would happen if you were sitting on
Speaker 5: a train and you threw the ball up in the
Speaker 5: air and caught it. And by thinking about that and
Speaker 5: extrapolating what the effects of doing that would be compared
Speaker 5: to the effects of things that happened out in the universe,
Speaker 5: he was able to make some qualitative assumptions about what
Speaker 5: must be true, and then find mathematicians who could help
Speaker 5: improve it mathematically.
Speaker 3: Right. Okay, you also mentioned the Egyptian belief that the
Speaker 3: sun once rose were formally set.
Speaker 5: Yes. Actually, the next book that I'm writing, the one
Speaker 5: that's at the publisher at the moment that just has
Speaker 5: just been submitted, I'm calling the overthrown Boat. And what
Speaker 5: that term implies is the idea of a boat capsizing. Now,
Speaker 5: during the stages of the formation of manner, there's a
Speaker 5: point at which gravity has been created and mass has
Speaker 5: been created, and the spinning of this this little tiny vortex,
Speaker 5: it seems to indicate that it reverses itself. Now, it
Speaker 5: looks to me as if periodically the effects of this
Speaker 5: rotating spiral out in space about near Orion's belt, the
Speaker 5: spiral I called Barnard, that's called Barnard's lube. It looks
Speaker 5: like the effects of that rotation could theoretically cause a
Speaker 5: couple of different kinds of reversals For us. One is
Speaker 5: it might periodically cause a change in the tilt of
Speaker 5: the axis of our planet. And if that were to happen,
Speaker 5: if the if our planet were if magnetic or electromagnet
Speaker 5: electromagnetic effects were to cause our planet to essentially tip
Speaker 5: over like capsized boat. The ice cap would melt, there'd
Speaker 5: be a gigantic flood, Terrible things would happen to civilizations
Speaker 5: that had arisen and would basically be pushing the reset
Speaker 5: button or the reboot button on the on the world.
Speaker 5: It looks to me like that might happen periodically, right,
Speaker 5: So so that's one thing that this idea of of
Speaker 5: a reversal might might involve, or it might actually imply
Speaker 5: literally that there's going to be a reversal between universes
Speaker 5: at some point.
Speaker 3: Hmm. Okay, I was just gonna what was I just
Speaker 3: going to ask you? Uh? Oh, yes, this is You're
Speaker 3: the first one to really tackle this and make some
Speaker 3: sense of it. One of the things we see a
Speaker 3: quebecley Tepe is kind of the outstretched arms as if
Speaker 3: they're embracing, and I've always found that to be such
Speaker 3: a weird thing, like why would that be something that
Speaker 3: is so common in some of these uh these these images.
Speaker 5: Right I when I first saw those arms. Okay, there's
Speaker 5: a pillar at goebecley Tepe, and it's a rectang basically
Speaker 5: a rectangular pillar with a second rectangular piece that that
Speaker 5: sort of sits on top of it sticks out a
Speaker 5: little bit, but along the sides of the pillar, down
Speaker 5: the sides are these carved shapes that look like arms
Speaker 5: that come down along the sides of the pillar and
Speaker 5: then wrap hands that wrap around the end of the pillar,
Speaker 5: like the fingers grasping the sides of the ends of
Speaker 5: the pillars. So when I first saw that, what it
Speaker 5: made me think of was an Egyptian glyph that has
Speaker 5: two arms and two hands that I always thought represented
Speaker 5: the concept of duality, and so my first impression was
Speaker 5: that was what this represented. But paying attention to those
Speaker 5: little cues that happened, I kept coming across references that
Speaker 5: represented concepts of hugs and embraces, and I kept exploring
Speaker 5: issues for other people that involved Egyptian words that would
Speaker 5: lead me back to a page in the Egyptian Hieroglyphic
Speaker 5: Dictionary that where the words were talking about hugging and embracing.
Speaker 5: So then I got the bright idea to look up
Speaker 5: Egyptian words for pillar and discover that one of them
Speaker 5: was pronounced exactly like a word that means to embrace,
Speaker 5: And from there I had enough of a clue to
Speaker 5: realize that what I was looking at with those arms
Speaker 5: was an attempt to depict an embrace. But this is
Speaker 5: an attempt made by somebody who was not very good
Speaker 5: yet It looks to me as if they were not
Speaker 5: very good yet not doing it. What they were trying
Speaker 5: to convey was the image of a hug. What you've
Speaker 5: got at ten thousand BC is a tradition that is
Speaker 5: a matriarchal tradition. It's based on mother goddesses, and it
Speaker 5: rests primarily on feminine sensibilities. And all the indications are
Speaker 5: that what was trying to be represented there was the
Speaker 5: concept of an embrace or a hug. It's important because
Speaker 5: that spiral where light is inside and mass is outside,
Speaker 5: is conceptualized as an embrace between the non material and
Speaker 5: the material universe. And go backley Tepe is conceptualized symbolically
Speaker 5: as a place where the non material world interfaces with
Speaker 5: the material world us. You've also got linguistics involved that
Speaker 5: the word go Beckley go backley Tepe ties to an
Speaker 5: ancient Egyptian word that, when you net out all of
Speaker 5: the interpreted interpretive elements that have to go into sorting
Speaker 5: it out, has four pieces to it. The first one
Speaker 5: is het, which means temple. The second one is pet,
Speaker 5: which implies the concept of space, The third one is ka,
Speaker 5: which represents the concept of an embrace or duality, and
Speaker 5: the last one is yah, which represents the concept of light.
Speaker 5: So you put those four together and what it says
Speaker 5: is temple of space embracing light.
Speaker 3: Huh.
Speaker 5: So my feeling is that those arms represent the concept
Speaker 5: of an embrace, and that concept of an embrace passes
Speaker 5: down as an important symbolic reference throughout history. It's so
Speaker 5: important and so much at the center, at the core
Speaker 5: of the secret ideas of this tradition. That reference to
Speaker 5: it was actually banned in China at eleven by an
Speaker 5: emperor Wow, and pretty much all traces of it you
Speaker 5: can you can no longer find any traits of it
Speaker 5: in China. I had to finally go to Japan to
Speaker 5: track it down. Linguistics is very important to the process
Speaker 5: of interpreting this stuff. One of the things that linguistics
Speaker 5: led me to was an archaic cult, a matriarchal cult
Speaker 5: that carried the symbolism we see it go becle Tepe
Speaker 5: down historically through India, and they were ancestral to the
Speaker 5: Vedic tradition and the Buddhist Hindu traditions, and it looks
Speaker 5: to me like the same influences came into Egypt rom.
Speaker 5: Four thousand BC. In Ethiopia, it's all mother goddess matriarchal cult.
Speaker 5: It rests on two goddesses who are considered to be
Speaker 5: the mothers of Ganesha, the elephant god in India, and
Speaker 5: Ganesha also ends up being central to a lot of
Speaker 5: the symbolism. Gansha is sort of a key that that
Speaker 5: ties the African tradition and the Egyptian tradition and the
Speaker 5: traditions in India and China all together.
Speaker 3: Where where do we find the name gobecley Tepe? I mean,
Speaker 3: how do we know that's what that place was called?
Speaker 5: Well, gobecley Tape is what it's called in Turkey in
Speaker 5: modern times. In the ancient Greek name for the region
Speaker 5: was Cappadocia. The ancient Egypt, the ancient Egyptian name for
Speaker 5: the region was get pet Kai, which, given a thousand,
Speaker 5: seven thousand year times difference, is a reasonable phonetic equivalent
Speaker 5: to go Beckley. And so part of what I do
Speaker 5: in the book is I try to sort out what
Speaker 5: possible meanings Quebecley Tepe. The words Quebecley tape could have
Speaker 5: and tie those two Egyptian words and and make a
Speaker 5: link that way. But ultimately where the connection comes is
Speaker 5: through the archaic names for the god the goddesses of
Speaker 5: this cult in India, the Shakti gull.
Speaker 3: Now there's also these naval areas, and that's seen in
Speaker 3: Quebecy Tape seems to be one, but there are certain
Speaker 3: areas on the earth that are considered to be like navels.
Speaker 3: Does this figure into your work at all?
Speaker 5: Yes, it does. One of the potential translations of the Okay,
Speaker 5: the words go Beckley tape have multiple meanings in the
Speaker 5: Turkish language, and so depending on which ones you pick
Speaker 5: you can pay. You have different options as to how
Speaker 5: you might translate this term. One of the possibilities is
Speaker 5: hell with a nabel and hill with a navel. It's
Speaker 5: a symbolic definition of a Buddhist stupa. Okay, with the stupa.
Speaker 5: If the stupa represents a hemisphere, and if we're talking
Speaker 5: about biology biological reproduction, that implies a womb, and what's
Speaker 5: at the top center of the womb is the nabel
Speaker 5: and so the navel is important cosmologically that way, it's
Speaker 5: a correlate to the axis that defiance matter and the
Speaker 5: center of that access is the tree of life, which
Speaker 5: is same concept a different theme.
Speaker 3: So if quebecley Tepe was an area they went to
Speaker 3: be taught something, could it be that these other naval
Speaker 3: areas were also teaching spots.
Speaker 5: Yes, there could be. I mean I personally think we're
Speaker 5: going to find because I personally think we're going to
Speaker 5: find other mountaintop sanctuaries that are buried the way gobecley
Speaker 5: Tepe was. And I think one of the motors for
Speaker 5: bearing it was they were trying this message that was
Speaker 5: being left scientifically in our creation tradition wasn't for the
Speaker 5: hundred gatherers at ten thousand BC. It was aimed at
Speaker 5: It was targeted at somebody who had a clue about
Speaker 5: the science, and that means us. So, because you can't
Speaker 5: understand what the tradition's about if you don't know what
Speaker 5: an atom is, and you can't understand what the traditions
Speaker 5: about if you don't know what an electron orbit looks like.
Speaker 5: So the idea is the message is being sent to
Speaker 5: the email address of the person who knows the science effectively. Okay,
Speaker 5: So knowing that burying the site liberally bearing the site
Speaker 5: preserves it for posterity for that same audience.
Speaker 3: Now have you seen connections between your work and Native
Speaker 3: American symbology as well?
Speaker 5: Yes, so there are some some things you can use
Speaker 5: do to positively tie it. The Hopie in particular, the
Speaker 5: Hope Indians have traditions that are a lot like the dogan,
Speaker 5: the stupa. There is a portable form of a stupa
Speaker 5: called a yurt in Siberia and Mongolia, and there are
Speaker 5: a number of different forms of urt, and one of
Speaker 5: the forms is an architectural and symbolic match for a
Speaker 5: Navajo roundhouse. And one of the forms of portable yurt
Speaker 5: is called a tepee, and it's a match for a
Speaker 5: Native American tp So we can tell because they have
Speaker 5: these structures that are essentially stupas, that they also had
Speaker 5: the tradition that stupid is one of those signatures of
Speaker 5: the tradition.
Speaker 3: All right, So.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, yes, there are Native American groups that have the
Speaker 5: same stuff.
Speaker 3: And of course we were talking earlier, the Native Americans
Speaker 3: also have the legends of the sky people who came
Speaker 3: down and brought them civilization.
Speaker 5: Yes, and I am again that falls in the category
Speaker 5: of things that I imagine are probably true, but I
Speaker 5: can't prove it yet. Part of what I do is
Speaker 5: a lot like a game of clue. If you remember
Speaker 5: the board game Sure, where Colonel Mustard did it in
Speaker 5: the library with the candlestick. Now the player's job. You know,
Speaker 5: if you say that, if you make the proposition that
Speaker 5: Colonel Mustard did it in the library with a candlestick,
Speaker 5: I look at my hand to see if I have
Speaker 5: any of those cards in my hand, and if I do,
Speaker 5: I can disprove your theory. Well, part of what I
Speaker 5: do when somebody says, well to day of American people
Speaker 5: talk about sky people who are aliens, I look at
Speaker 5: my hand and say, is there anything in my hand
Speaker 5: that could disprove that? And if there isn't, then I
Speaker 5: allowed that it's probably you know, there's a possibility that
Speaker 5: could be true. I can't disprove it. It falls in
Speaker 5: the category of things that I'll wait to see. You know,
Speaker 5: someday I may have something that that definitively ties to that.
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, all right, so we're just about done. There
Speaker 3: was one thing I was made aware of this week
Speaker 3: that I found kind of interesting. I'm sure you know
Speaker 3: who Mother Shipton is, right, Yes, In one of her
Speaker 3: long prophecies where she talks about all the stuff that's
Speaker 3: you know, World War one and World War two, that
Speaker 3: seems pretty accurate, she talks about this current civilization being
Speaker 3: destroyed by what sounds like comets, and afterwards she says,
Speaker 3: and before the race is built, anew a silver serpent
Speaker 3: comes to view to spew out men of like unknown
Speaker 3: to mingle with the earth now chron cold from it
Speaker 3: its heat, and these men can enlighten the minds of
Speaker 3: future man, which makes it makes it almost sound like
Speaker 3: here are being from somewhere else coming into reestablished civilization. Right.
Speaker 5: I'm with the connection to light, which for me says non.
Speaker 3: Material right exactly. And I just like I said, I
Speaker 3: came across that this week and I just thought, I
Speaker 3: wonder if there's some connection there between what's happened in
Speaker 3: the past and what could happen in the future.
Speaker 5: Yes. Now, if you imagine that everything that we see
Speaker 5: in the universe ends up boiling down to circular, to
Speaker 5: being circular, basically are being round, you know, round planets
Speaker 5: around sun, the idea that the universe itself might be round,
Speaker 5: that things spin and they rotate, that things form spirals
Speaker 5: and they rotate. It's all all comes down to roundness
Speaker 5: and repetition. There's reason to think that time might also
Speaker 5: be circular. And if that's true, also when we think
Speaker 5: about conceptually about this non mature universe where all events
Speaker 5: happen at once. On the level of that non material universe,
Speaker 5: the concept of time doesn't really have any meaning. You
Speaker 5: can it'd be like picking up a book and being
Speaker 5: able to go to whatever page you wanted to. So
Speaker 5: it's quite possible this is cyclical, like some of the
Speaker 5: ancient traditions say, and that the same events are going
Speaker 5: to repeat again and again and again in substantially the
Speaker 5: same way, maybe not exactly the same way. Right, Like
Speaker 5: every time you play a video game, you're stepping through
Speaker 5: the same scenarios.
Speaker 3: Right right, but how they play out exactly varies.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it varies a little bit each time.
Speaker 3: All right. Now, you don't have an official web page.
Speaker 5: No, there is a layered scrant dot com that's actually
Speaker 5: a fan page. The contact tab on that page does
Speaker 5: reach me, I mean, I get the messages and I
Speaker 5: answer them. So if somebody wants to use that to
Speaker 5: contact me, that that's fine. My books can be found
Speaker 5: at all the usual sources. I think Point of Origin
Speaker 5: is actually in Barnes and Noble right now, which is
Speaker 5: very good.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 5: My publisher is Inner Traditions dot com and they're associated
Speaker 5: with Simon and Schuster dot com. I have pay author
Speaker 5: pages on both of those websites. I have an author
Speaker 5: page on Amazon. All my books are there, and pretty
Speaker 5: much you can google Lyric Scranton and you would come
Speaker 5: up with references to places where the books can be found.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, and the current one, which is your
Speaker 3: sixth book, am I right?
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is the sixth book. Good wow.
Speaker 3: I have a hard time Pepy Trainer Points of Origin
Speaker 3: go Beckley Tepe and the Spiritual Matrix of the World's Cosmologies,
Speaker 3: and we just basically scratched the surface of the information.
Speaker 3: And in this book Talking Tonight, Uh it is there's
Speaker 3: it's so dense with information and connections and you back
Speaker 3: up everything you say with with evidence behind it. So
Speaker 3: it's not a book full of speculation. I mean, there's
Speaker 3: there's some degree of speculation, but you're backing up what
Speaker 3: you're speculating.
Speaker 5: Well, thank you, I appreciate your you're looking at it
Speaker 5: that way. You know, I think this book is significant.
Speaker 5: I had it was a very interesting process writing it,
Speaker 5: and the way the material sort of fell out was
Speaker 5: a very interesting process for me. I learned as much
Speaker 5: by writing the book as as as hopefully the reader
Speaker 5: does when they read it.
Speaker 3: All right, and the next one is going to be called.
Speaker 5: What called well? I'm not The title has not been
Speaker 5: the I'm called for thrown, And there are symbolic about
Speaker 5: the well, just as there are symbolic reasons throughout this book,
Speaker 5: I should be called point of origin symbol. The next
Speaker 5: requie the overthrown book. It's about Scotland and about a
Speaker 5: little neolithic village in northern Scotland called Skara Bray. But
Speaker 5: that's how it outwardly appears. But at thirty two hundred BC,
Speaker 5: the significance of that site to me is as important
Speaker 5: as the significance of Go Back to Tepe at ten
Speaker 5: thousand BC.
Speaker 3: Wow, Okay, any idea when that might come out?
Speaker 5: It should be in the next year. It should be
Speaker 5: within the next twelve months, I imagine given the popularity
Speaker 5: a point of origin right now that the publisher will
Speaker 5: probably put some priority on it. So I'm hoping maybe
Speaker 5: fall of up next year, nice follow this year.
Speaker 3: I cannot wait to read it. All right, well, thank
Speaker 3: you so much, laird, and we're going to take you
Speaker 3: out with some psychic corporation. Here's worrying world conor.
Speaker 5: Do you need me?
Speaker 6: Do you understand the numbers plying over your connection to
Speaker 6: set the say so can into a tuns miss twenty
Speaker 6: to get you fifty five into one country?
Speaker 3: Forty five whens came?
Speaker 1: That was by mind.
Speaker 7: Be hide out cut.
Speaker 3: Outside time.
Speaker 7: When you hear the full time stirring out the boat,
Speaker 7: can you hear then, Lord let her stirring of the world.
Speaker 3: To the hill, the lad storing.
Speaker 5: Off the wood.
Speaker 6: Come in, Come in.
Speaker 5: We hear you loud and clear.
Speaker 3: They're getting our conversion of.
Speaker 5: The said No here hunt thirty two we undred thirty.
Speaker 6: See it's under ten s plas tet this.
Speaker 7: For an ants the leader I saw tot. Can you
Speaker 7: hear the ball land you thoring off the Can you
Speaker 7: hear about langage past walking out the latica?
Speaker 5: But can you hear the.
Speaker 6: Ball light place throwing off the woold first Great and
Speaker 6: Visible empires, Fashi Jesus time. Don't mistake it for statue.
Speaker 5: Or Fagian though it's timing to be where you are
Speaker 5: getting to the hearty thing of those.
Speaker 6: But your cousin at hit must not be fifteen hundred
Speaker 6: thirty seventh and kilting.
Speaker 5: Language. The wearing off.
Speaker 3: Lights, the wearing.
Speaker 7: Of the word. Can you hear the beg please?
Speaker 6: The wearing of the wood?
Speaker 3: Can you hear the doll lase? Playing off the.
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