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Speaker 6: You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking
Speaker 6: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 6: written about them. Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker BTK.
Speaker 6: Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking
Speaker 6: and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with
Speaker 6: your host, journalist and author Dan Zufanski.
Speaker 7: Good Evening. This episode is brought to you by Audible,
Speaker 7: the world's leading name in digital audiobooks. Nanette Johnston Packard
Speaker 7: Sex divorce like to met meet men at the gym
Speaker 7: and through personal ads. Soon after she began dating millionaire
Speaker 7: Bill McLaughlin. He moved her and her kids into his
Speaker 7: bayfront home in Newport Beach. But one man was never
Speaker 7: enough for Nennette. Eric Napowski, who her NFL linebacker lover,
Speaker 7: fulfilled Thennette's wilder cravings. Together they schemed to make her
Speaker 7: fiance's fortune their own. When McLaughlin was gunned down, authorities
Speaker 7: had suspicions, but no proof. Pulitzer nominated writer Caitlin Rother
Speaker 7: explores this chilling story of a woman who seemed to
Speaker 7: have it all until justice finally had its day. The
Speaker 7: book we're profiling this evening is I'll take care of
Speaker 7: You with my special guest journalist and author, Caitlin Rother.
Speaker 7: Welcome back to the program and thank you for a
Speaker 7: Greenness interview. Kaitlyn Rother.
Speaker 5: Oh, thanks for having me on again. It's always fun.
Speaker 7: Now, it's always my pleasure in our audience as well.
Speaker 7: Now let's get to this my typical question without giving
Speaker 7: too much away, why did you why were you interested
Speaker 7: in this story, and how did you come to write
Speaker 7: this book I'll take care of you.
Speaker 5: Well, this book actually came out of another book that
Speaker 5: I wrote a few books ago, called Dead Reckoning. The
Speaker 5: same police department, the same prosecutor, and actually one of
Speaker 5: the same defense attorneys were all involved in this previous case.
Speaker 5: Same DA investigator as well, who took it up as
Speaker 5: a cold case. But I was working on the other book,
Speaker 5: which came out some years ago, and the detective sergeant
Speaker 5: that I had been working with getting information from and
Speaker 5: following along and calling and nagging him for various things,
Speaker 5: he said, yeah, I'm actually working on this arrest warrant.
Speaker 5: We're going to go after this woman. She was a
Speaker 5: piece of work. And I said, oh, tell me about
Speaker 5: this case. So that being this case, which was a
Speaker 5: cold case by then. It took fifteen years for Annette
Speaker 5: and her lanebacker lover, Eric Naposki to be arrested for
Speaker 5: the murder of Bill McLoughlin. But it was just interesting
Speaker 5: that I was able to follow it from the beginning
Speaker 5: of this second phase and all the way through two
Speaker 5: trials and sentencings and what have you, and was able
Speaker 5: to work with some of the same people on this
Speaker 5: other book. So very different though in terms of the
Speaker 5: way that they handled the investigation. So the Dead Reckoning
Speaker 5: was the Skylar DeLeon's case, and they handled that one beautifully.
Speaker 5: This one did not go so well in the first
Speaker 5: stage of the investigation, in the initial initial stage of it.
Speaker 7: Yes, I interviewed you about Dead Reckoning a few years ago,
Speaker 7: so even not about three or four times now with
Speaker 7: your projects. Yeah, so yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5: If I could just add a little bit. But the
Speaker 5: thing that actually grabbed me more currently in a more
Speaker 5: timely way was I was drawn to this case not
Speaker 5: just because I knew some of the characters, but because
Speaker 5: I really feel like money corrupts, and this case drew
Speaker 5: me for some of the same reasons that the other
Speaker 5: case did. For the greed and the materialism that you see,
Speaker 5: you know, portrayed in shows like The Real Housewives of
Speaker 5: Orange County and The OC which was a show that
Speaker 5: was on TV some years ago. But just the way
Speaker 5: that people seem to think that, you know, money and
Speaker 5: appearances are so important that that's one of the more
Speaker 5: thematic reasons that this case really really drew me in,
Speaker 5: because I feel like that's one of our major problems
Speaker 5: in our society today and in our culture, of how
Speaker 5: much importance people put on money and appearances, and you know,
Speaker 5: that leads to some people stealing from other people and
Speaker 5: committing fraud and having so much cosmetic surgery that you
Speaker 5: can't even recognize them anymore. So those were a couple
Speaker 5: of the things that Nnnette ended up doing.
Speaker 7: Right, Well, let's get to that right now. Let's because
Speaker 7: you do, I got to congratulate you on a very,
Speaker 7: very vivid betrayal of these characters. So let's start with
Speaker 7: the most colorful character I think is Nenette Johnston Packard
Speaker 7: and his various names be along the way, because she's
Speaker 7: ends up married four times. So tell us about Nannette.
Speaker 5: But yeah, she didn't take her third husband's name.
Speaker 7: Okay, But to tell us about Nanette and a little
Speaker 7: as much as you explain in the book. Tell us
Speaker 7: about Nnette, Well.
Speaker 5: That's a very complicated question. I could probably take half
Speaker 5: an hour to answer. I'll try to keep it short.
Speaker 5: But she was a very different kind of person from
Speaker 5: whom I've written about before. So I was also drawn
Speaker 5: to this case for that reason. I like to have
Speaker 5: a different even though there's so many out there, there
Speaker 5: are only so many murders that are interesting to me
Speaker 5: and that are worth a book, and this woman. The
Speaker 5: more that I got into this case, the more I
Speaker 5: just could not believe just how extreme she was. She
Speaker 5: was an extreme liar and an extreme cheat and a fraud,
Speaker 5: and she was incredibly sexual and manipulative and seductive. And
Speaker 5: I just kept thinking to myself, what is it about
Speaker 5: her that drew in so many of these men? And
Speaker 5: what can people learn from this book? Because I don't
Speaker 5: want to just you know, I'm not writing books about
Speaker 5: murders to sensationalized violence. I am writing about murder to
Speaker 5: try to figure out what makes people do these things
Speaker 5: to other people? What is it about them? What happened
Speaker 5: to them, was there anything in their background as a child,
Speaker 5: And I was not really able to pin that down
Speaker 5: with her because she was so good at creating these different,
Speaker 5: you know, faces for herself that it was difficult. So
Speaker 5: I did end up getting some answers from her third husband,
Speaker 5: who you know, got close to her, and I think
Speaker 5: actually maybe the only husband, if you know, other than
Speaker 5: maybe her first husband when she was still seventeen when
Speaker 5: she first got married her third husband, it sounds to
Speaker 5: me like she really fell in love with him. But
Speaker 5: he ended up finding out a few things about her,
Speaker 5: but he still didn't know who she really was. And
Speaker 5: that was who Nanette was, somebody who was different to
Speaker 5: everybody she met. She lied about who she was. She
Speaker 5: adopted other people's successes as her own. She told people
Speaker 5: that she was someone she wasn't, and she had cosmetic
Speaker 5: surgery to make herself into something she wanted to be.
Speaker 5: And frankly, I don't know even what that was, other
Speaker 5: than she wanted to paint herself as you know, as
Speaker 5: some of these reality stars.
Speaker 3: Do.
Speaker 5: You know, I have money, I'm pretty, I have a
Speaker 5: lot of men, very narcissistic, wanted so many clothes that
Speaker 5: you know, her entire closet was full of clothes. In fact,
Speaker 5: many them still had price tags on them, so it
Speaker 5: was like she needed to surround herself with expensive things
Speaker 5: to make herself feel worthy, and yet at the same time,
Speaker 5: she also was I don't know if this is you know,
Speaker 5: she was pretending to be a supermom or really felt
Speaker 5: like she was a supermom. But she attended every sports
Speaker 5: game of her sons and every dance recital for her daughter.
Speaker 5: She brought her kids cupcakes on their birthday, even when
Speaker 5: they were in college, and she was, you know, doing
Speaker 5: some of these things, dating all these men and getting
Speaker 5: money and spending money other people's money on her kids.
Speaker 5: So maybe they thought she was a great mom too.
Speaker 5: I don't really know. But she used this mom thing
Speaker 5: to draw in these men, to make them feel like
Speaker 5: they were part of a family, and that was one
Speaker 5: of her manipulative mechanisms. So in the end, though, what
Speaker 5: my theory was that Nanette really just wanted to be
Speaker 5: somebody other than herself. I told you it was a
Speaker 5: long answer.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's not so long.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 7: We'll get to the beginning of this story then, and
Speaker 7: we'll talk about how she puts an ad in a magazine.
Speaker 7: A lot of people would be online, but she puts
Speaker 7: an ad in a magazine for wealthy men and tell
Speaker 7: us what that ad was.
Speaker 5: Well, you have to remember this was nineteen ninety four,
Speaker 5: so this was before the days of online dating. So
Speaker 5: today she probably will that's true, you know, match dot
Speaker 5: com or something, but all, let's be honest. Match dot
Speaker 5: com doesn't allow you to look for wealthy men only,
Speaker 5: although I guess you could put that in your profile.
Speaker 5: But anyway, she advertised in a singles magazine called Singles Connection,
Speaker 5: and she said for wealthy men only. That was the
Speaker 5: title of the ad. She dressed up in this white
Speaker 5: feather boa and had on this little come hither outfit,
Speaker 5: you know, frufreugh hair. It was a boudoir shot essentially,
Speaker 5: but head and shoulders, and she basically said, I'll take
Speaker 5: care of you if you take care of me, and
Speaker 5: so she pretty much came out and said it. So
Speaker 5: Bill McLaughlin answered this ad. And the police know this
Speaker 5: because they found a stack of notes back back and forth,
Speaker 5: presumably because they were cards in a stack and Bill
Speaker 5: was very meticulous, and so he had a stack of
Speaker 5: them in the earliest one was at the bottom, which
Speaker 5: was the first one, and it was addressed to him
Speaker 5: in the mail. So it's clear that, you know, he
Speaker 5: was answering her ad because her his kids did not
Speaker 5: want to believe that their dad would have answered a
Speaker 5: personal ad, but there there was proof that he did.
Speaker 5: He did mail this thing to her anyway, So she,
Speaker 5: you know, pretty much gave her measurements and height and
Speaker 5: and said a bunch of stuff that really ends up
Speaker 5: not being true. I don't know when she met him,
Speaker 5: she told him she had an advanced college degree, when
Speaker 5: in fact, you know, and she graduated high school early.
Speaker 5: She was a valedictorian, she had finished college earlier than
Speaker 5: you know, the four years, and she had an advanced
Speaker 5: business degree. Well, in fact, she dropped out of high
Speaker 5: school and she was not valedictorian. She went to work
Speaker 5: at a gym, and she was really good at sales,
Speaker 5: and so she got promoted quickly. But all of this
Speaker 5: stuff about her education was completely made up. So he
Speaker 5: moved her into his his house pretty quickly, and they
Speaker 5: got along great. And you know, he told his cousin Barbara,
Speaker 5: who I quote in the book, you know, I really
Speaker 5: met this, you know, pretty lady, and I really like
Speaker 5: her law, and we get along really well. And da
Speaker 5: da da da dah. Anyway, she she she weaseled her
Speaker 5: way into the house and into his eventually into his checkbook.
Speaker 7: So now let's go backwards a little bit. So let's
Speaker 7: introduce mister McLaughlin William Francis Blacklin and and the age difference.
Speaker 7: In nineteen ninety four, she was twenty nine, he was
Speaker 7: fifty five. So a few years earlier, three years earlier,
Speaker 7: she's twenty six, he's fifty two. The eight sounds right,
Speaker 7: So he, you know, because.
Speaker 5: Newly divorced, he had three grown kids. His youngest son
Speaker 5: was I think nineteen at the time when they met,
Speaker 5: and his older he had two daughters, and one was
Speaker 5: in Japan teaching and the other one was teaching at
Speaker 5: a high school nearby. And he had, you know, thought
Speaker 5: he was done with being a you know, a dad essentially,
Speaker 5: but his son ended up getting into a skateboarding accident,
Speaker 5: meaning that a drunk driver you know, ran him over.
Speaker 5: He hit his horrible brain injury. He was in a coma.
Speaker 5: They weren't sure he was going to come back. So
Speaker 5: when he came out of it, he had some deficiencies
Speaker 5: and one of them was that he you know, when
Speaker 5: he got upset or when he got very anxious, he
Speaker 5: when he tried to talk, he sounded like he was drunk,
Speaker 5: so it was hard to understand him. He was kind
Speaker 5: of slurry, and he wasn't able to walk as well.
Speaker 5: He was wasn't as athletic obviously as he used to be.
Speaker 5: And he still had a hard time writing as well.
Speaker 5: So he was working on that with the therapy, and
Speaker 5: he was living in the house and one of you know,
Speaker 5: he's very frustrated, so he was actually using drugs and
Speaker 5: drinking more than his dad appreciated. So you know, he's like,
Speaker 5: you need to get into AA and and I'm going
Speaker 5: and he made him sign a contract and he had
Speaker 5: some drug testing kiss in the refrigerator. And meanwhile, Nannette
Speaker 5: was living with both of them in the house, and
Speaker 5: she had her two kids would come and stay because
Speaker 5: she shared custody, and they moved into Bill's daughter's rooms
Speaker 5: pretty quickly. And so the older Bill's daughters were a
Speaker 5: little taken aback by that Wow left and she's just
Speaker 5: moved in and moved her kids in and Wow, so
Speaker 5: they were not thrilled with her. He thought she was,
Speaker 5: you know, the greatest thing. You know, he was having
Speaker 5: a good time with her. Clearly, he was also a
Speaker 5: very bright man, a very educated man, and he was
Speaker 5: a wealthy man because he had invented a medical device
Speaker 5: that separated plasma from blood. He invented this with a
Speaker 5: partner and then subsequently got into this major legal battle
Speaker 5: with this partner, and so there were royalties that had
Speaker 5: been coming into the tune of a couple million a year,
Speaker 5: and then once this lawsuit kept going and going and going,
Speaker 5: it was very expensive, very prustrating for him. They put
Speaker 5: some of those royalties into a fund that he did
Speaker 5: not have access to while they were in the middle
Speaker 5: of this lawsuit. So he was wealthy, but there was
Speaker 5: a bunch of money that he didn't have access to.
Speaker 5: So meanwhile, he and the neette were working on a
Speaker 5: number of different projects, real estate projects, various other things
Speaker 5: he was trying to do with some related technology to
Speaker 5: the blood device, So he was he was busy working away,
Speaker 5: but he was struggling financially in the last year of
Speaker 5: his life, so things were things were kind of iffy
Speaker 5: with his finances, but she had some plans to change that.
Speaker 7: Now you paint this portrayal of these people. But what
Speaker 7: did what did really Ninette look like? In comparison? Will
Speaker 7: say to this educated Bill McLaughlin, rich guy, he got
Speaker 7: out of a nasty divorce, so it he was very
Speaker 7: interested in this woman was what he thought was injecting
Speaker 7: some real, uh you know, some happiness in his life
Speaker 7: for a change. Souse, What what did she look like?
Speaker 7: What did he look like? And what was the what
Speaker 7: did the relationship just look like? From outsiders? Friends of
Speaker 7: Bill will say, what did it look like?
Speaker 5: How did she look physically?
Speaker 7: Yeah, physically and sort of just in terms of they
Speaker 7: went out with people? What did what did it seem
Speaker 7: like the couple was like? The dynamic of the couple?
Speaker 5: Right? Okay? She she had she was of Indian as
Speaker 5: in from India descent, not Native American, and so her
Speaker 5: father was Indian. Her mother was from the Chicago area,
Speaker 5: so she was half white and half Indian. So she
Speaker 5: has a different kind of look about her. But you know,
Speaker 5: you wouldn't you wouldn't know from looking at her that
Speaker 5: she was of Indian descent. So she had dark eyes,
Speaker 5: she had dark really kinky, curly kind of frizzy hair,
Speaker 5: and she started coloring it, and it also looked like
Speaker 5: it was some bleached, so it's kind of hard to tell,
Speaker 5: you know, which was what was the sun and what
Speaker 5: was the hair color. But she was almost blonde, which
Speaker 5: you know, for somebody with Indian descent, you can imagine
Speaker 5: they're dark, dark haired, dark eyes, and a you know,
Speaker 5: different tint to the skin. So I saw her in court.
Speaker 5: She didn't really look olive skinned, but she was. She
Speaker 5: definitely didn't look, you know, completely white. So anyway, she
Speaker 5: was attractive at the time. She was very athletic, very
Speaker 5: much in shape, went to the gym all the time,
Speaker 5: and apparently dressed to the nine. So she was very
Speaker 5: well dressed. And that's partly because Bill was buying her stuff.
Speaker 5: Bill was you know, bought her of some breast implants.
Speaker 5: Bill took her on vacations. Bill said she didn't have
Speaker 5: to work as long as she was living in the
Speaker 5: house because he was going to take care of her.
Speaker 5: I mean, that was the deal, right, So she had
Speaker 5: plenty of time to work on her appearance. Bill, on
Speaker 5: the other hand, he was also athletic. He did manage
Speaker 5: to keep himself in good shape. He was a decent
Speaker 5: looking guy. You know, I wouldn't say he was a
Speaker 5: gorgeous man, but you know, he was not bad looking.
Speaker 5: But he wasn't young. You know, he had money and
Speaker 5: but he was he was in good shape, and he
Speaker 5: did work at it, and apparently he would. I don't
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Speaker 5: Had a nice place on the beach, and you know,
Speaker 5: they would go out. He would bring her on business dinners,
Speaker 5: which was something I guess his wife, his ex wife,
Speaker 5: didn't really like to do and she didn't enjoy the
Speaker 5: business aspect of it, and Nnette really did. Nnette was
Speaker 5: trying to get every soak up every little piece of
Speaker 5: information that she could from Bill and learn from him,
Speaker 5: and I think he enjoyed that. I think he enjoyed
Speaker 5: that she was engaged in his life in a way
Speaker 5: that his ex wife had not been. And so, by
Speaker 5: all appearances, Bill's friends all thought they were this you know,
Speaker 5: I wouldn't say loving couple, but exclusive couple. They got
Speaker 5: along well. He was affectionate with her, He was very
Speaker 5: affectionate with his kids. Kind of all kinds of snapshots
Speaker 5: of him, you know, cuddling with her kids on the couch,
Speaker 5: taking them on his private plane, and taking them on
Speaker 5: his private boat. You know. So she's living the high
Speaker 5: life and seems like everything's great. But he also is
Speaker 5: spending a couple of days a week in Las Vegas.
Speaker 5: He flies there in his private plane because he is
Speaker 5: establishing residency for tax purposes. He's saving half a million
Speaker 5: dollars a year doing this. Now, while he is away
Speaker 5: in Las Vegas, she's at the gym, you know, supposedly
Speaker 5: staying in shape. She is not taking her big diamond
Speaker 5: engagement ring with her to the gym. She is going
Speaker 5: to the gym posing as a young, hot, single athletic
Speaker 5: woman on the prowl. And she is meeting and dating
Speaker 5: men left and right and sleeping with them, in fact,
Speaker 5: sleeping with them in Bill McLoughlin's house while he is
Speaker 5: in Las Vegas, which takes so much hutsbah, I can't
Speaker 5: even tell you.
Speaker 7: Now, why would she do that? If did she?
Speaker 1: Did?
Speaker 7: She? Did you? What is the motivation you believe at
Speaker 7: that time? Did she not? Did she not understand what
Speaker 7: the ramifications could be if she were caught? Or was
Speaker 7: it more of a sexual drive? What would you attribute
Speaker 7: it to?
Speaker 5: I'm not really sure. To be honest, I'm not sure.
Speaker 5: I want to assume anything. I can speculate. I think
Speaker 5: she was very sexually driven. I do know that I
Speaker 5: can say that for sure. I think she just thought
Speaker 5: she was so damn clever. She was gonna fool everybody,
Speaker 5: you know, and she was going to get what she
Speaker 5: wanted and what she needed and nobody was going to
Speaker 5: figure it out, because I mean, that seems to be
Speaker 5: a pattern with these narcissistic killers that you know, I'm
Speaker 5: smarter than everybody else, and I'm going to get away
Speaker 5: with this because I'm so good at this. I'm so
Speaker 5: good at lying. I fool everyone and everyone believes me,
Speaker 5: and they'll just do what I want and I just
Speaker 5: manipulate them. And I want these men to give me sex,
Speaker 5: and I want these men to think that I'm a
Speaker 5: successful business woman and that this car that Bill gave me,
Speaker 5: and these clothes that Bill bought me, and these other
Speaker 5: things that Bill gave me, including his own accomplishments, which
Speaker 5: she took as her own, and told stories that she
Speaker 5: had invented this blood device, which is just ridiculous considering
Speaker 5: how old she was and what her education truly was.
Speaker 5: These people believed her, and they wanted to meet Bill.
Speaker 5: They wanted to meet Bill because she told them that
Speaker 5: Bill was her you know, father figure, business mentor, and
Speaker 5: they were thinking, hey, some of them, you know, hey,
Speaker 5: I can get some of his money and invested in
Speaker 5: my business. So they were believing her stories. And so
Speaker 5: she was basically getting the admiration and the respect and
Speaker 5: the sex and the nice things from every direction. So
Speaker 5: she was getting what she wanted, and she was pretending
Speaker 5: to be who she wanted to be, and she was
Speaker 5: getting away with it. So motivation. I think she had
Speaker 5: a big, deep black hole in her soul now that
Speaker 5: she was trying to fill with this cash and with
Speaker 5: this sex. And I don't know why she had it
Speaker 5: or where it came from, but it seems like she
Speaker 5: she definitely had a big black hole in her soul.
Speaker 7: They were together three years approximately. Now, at what point
Speaker 7: does she she's always going to gym, she's always working out.
Speaker 7: When does she meet Eric Nepowski? And please tell us
Speaker 7: about Eric Nepowsky.
Speaker 5: Eric Neposki and the Net meet actually a couple years
Speaker 5: before Bill is murdered, So they meet as friends at
Speaker 5: the gym. He's he's a guy who's an NFL you know,
Speaker 5: want to be Essentially, he has played five games in
Speaker 5: the NFL and he keeps getting injured. So he's gets
Speaker 5: a walk on with the with the New England Patriots
Speaker 5: the auditions and he makes it by crawling through a
Speaker 5: hole in the fence and you know, running really fast
Speaker 5: and getting some notice. And he was a great athlete,
Speaker 5: really great athlete, just kept getting injured, so he could
Speaker 5: never make it in the NFL. He did actually do
Speaker 5: well in the World Football League, so he was on
Speaker 5: a team in Barcelona called the Barcelona Dragons. He actually
Speaker 5: had his own fan club with five thousand fans. But
Speaker 5: he just could not make it here in the US.
Speaker 5: And so in between, you know, healing and you know,
Speaker 5: getting injured and healing and training and running off and
Speaker 5: trying to audition again and getting signed and then injured,
Speaker 5: you know, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.
Speaker 5: He was a bouncer and a physical trainer. And so
Speaker 5: while he was you know, in in the Newport Beach area,
Speaker 5: he met Nanette at the gym. They started hanging out
Speaker 5: and I guess they were friends. So she would tell
Speaker 5: him that she was dating all these different guys and
Speaker 5: he didn't really know much about Bill McLoughlin. But she
Speaker 5: never told anybody at the gym that she was engaged
Speaker 5: to Bill McLoughlin. She made everybody think that he was
Speaker 5: just a business partner. So Eric Naposki, he had been
Speaker 5: married and divorced, had two kids, and he never sent
Speaker 5: them any money. He was always behind in his child support.
Speaker 5: As it turns out, by the time he was ultimately
Speaker 5: arrested in two thousand and nine, he was about one
Speaker 5: hundred thousand dollars behind because he had been married again
Speaker 5: with two more kids. Of four kids, never paying his
Speaker 5: child support. He was one hundred thousand dollars in debt.
Speaker 5: But at this time, this is only after two kids.
Speaker 5: So he's he's a dad. You know, he's telling Nnette
Speaker 5: he's a dad, and he gets I think sucked in
Speaker 5: a little bit too, because he apparently likes kids, and
Speaker 5: he's hanging out with Nanette kids. And you know, by
Speaker 5: the year of nineteen ninety four, they were dating. So
Speaker 5: they decided to start trying to try to date. So
Speaker 5: they've been friends already for a year or two and
Speaker 5: started dating. And initially, you know, it wasn't an exclusive thing,
Speaker 5: but they were getting more serious and at least Eric Sasso,
Speaker 5: and he took her home to meet his parents in
Speaker 5: Thanksgiving of nineteen ninety four, and Nannette took him to
Speaker 5: her sister's wedding that same trip back He's down in
Speaker 5: the Maryland area and introduced him as her boyfriend. Meanwhile,
Speaker 5: Bill McLoughlin is thinking they're engaged right now. Bill was
Speaker 5: telling some people that he wasn't sure he wanted to
Speaker 5: marry her. He was just trying to keep her happy
Speaker 5: with this ring, and things were starting to go a
Speaker 5: little funny, and it's unclear whether he was figuring anything
Speaker 5: out or not. But he did tell his brother right
Speaker 5: before he was killed that he thought someone was after him,
Speaker 5: and he didn't say who. Well, I don't remember what
Speaker 5: your ust There you go.
Speaker 7: No, it was great, No, it was great. I mean
Speaker 7: that covers a lot of things. I would have asked
Speaker 7: the now you say that they were Nannette and Bill were.
Speaker 7: Bill had her involved in some things, trying to generate
Speaker 7: some income and utilize whatever talents he thought that she
Speaker 7: might have or shed to him.
Speaker 5: That she did. But I wouldn't say it was for
Speaker 5: that reason. I would say that she was trying to
Speaker 5: soak up whatever he was doing, and so she was
Speaker 5: more in a support capacity I think at that point.
Speaker 7: No, but I want to establish how she came to
Speaker 7: have I mean, he must have had someone like a
Speaker 7: brother or someone to advise him that you know, you
Speaker 7: don't really or at least he would know himself, being
Speaker 7: a businessman himself, that that not to give her access
Speaker 7: to his money. How does she come to have access
Speaker 7: to be able to do some things?
Speaker 5: Here's the problem. You're applying rationality.
Speaker 7: To affect clure suation.
Speaker 5: Yeah, of course, so no, I totally agree with you,
Speaker 5: you would think, and everybody wondered afterwards. You know, Bill
Speaker 5: was a smart man. What happened here? Right, Well, he
Speaker 5: gave her access to his check book for the household bills,
Speaker 5: So he gave her access to one account, okay, And
Speaker 5: I guess he just didn't think that she was a
Speaker 5: bad person that was going to take that, you know,
Speaker 5: liberty to start moving money around between other accounts. So
Speaker 5: one thing he did do is he talked to his accountant,
Speaker 5: who you know, basically he said, you know, Ninette wants
Speaker 5: to get married. You know, what should I do? And
Speaker 5: the accountant basically said, well, you know you should whyt't
Speaker 5: you just wait? You know, it's not going anywhere. If
Speaker 5: she really wants to marry you, she'll still want to
Speaker 5: marry you. And because you know, he was having some
Speaker 5: difficulties and at one point, actually in nineteen ninety four,
Speaker 5: as things were getting very tight and he was having
Speaker 5: some liquid liquidity problems, he even said to his daughters,
Speaker 5: you know, do you think she's with me for my money?
Speaker 5: And they said yes. And so, you know, it's hard
Speaker 5: to say exactly, but I think she must have just
Speaker 5: told him what he wanted to hear, and he trust
Speaker 5: I think he trusted her, so all she had access
Speaker 5: to was one account. And what she ended up doing, though,
Speaker 5: was was, like I said, soaking up all this knowledge.
Speaker 5: And what you know he did. He did make her
Speaker 5: a trustee to his estate. You know, that's if he
Speaker 5: were dead. Of course, when he did that, she was,
Speaker 5: she was. They were engaged, and she kept saying she
Speaker 5: wanted to have his child, and you know, he thought
Speaker 5: they were, you know, going to build a life together.
Speaker 5: At least that's what she wanted. I don't know that
Speaker 5: he wanted that necessarily, but I think he was just
Speaker 5: trying to get back on a float, because this this
Speaker 5: legal this this lawsuit had been dragging on and dragging on,
Speaker 5: and then finally in October of nineteen ninety four and
Speaker 5: he was murdered in December, he finally got word that
Speaker 5: he had won or at least, you know, had won
Speaker 5: that round and was thinking and so he and the
Speaker 5: Neett were thinking that about nine million dollars was about
Speaker 5: to come floating in. The thing suddenly changed in October
Speaker 5: of nineteen ninety four.
Speaker 7: Right right now? Was there any she's living with her
Speaker 7: two kids, he has kids, Bill has friends. I mean,
Speaker 7: she's in a gym. I mean, is there anybody trying
Speaker 7: to intervene on Bill's behalf warning him, or any rumors
Speaker 7: floating around? Is there any doubt? Is there anybody that's
Speaker 7: speaking out against her? Well?
Speaker 5: There, I guess they could. I think Bill was pretty headstrong.
Speaker 5: From what I understand, Bill was pretty headstrong. And you
Speaker 5: did not tell Bill what to do, and you did
Speaker 5: not tell Bill how things were going to be. Bill
Speaker 5: told you how things were going to be. And so
Speaker 5: pan his other daughter was you know, living on her
Speaker 5: own elsewhere. So the only person who was living with
Speaker 5: him was his son, who he was having some issues
Speaker 5: with because of his drug and alcohol youth, so he
Speaker 5: was still in a father son situation with him. I
Speaker 5: don't think Kevin was saying anything to his dad like
Speaker 5: watch out for Ninette, and in fact, I don't think
Speaker 5: they were they had any idea of what she was
Speaker 5: capable of. That's the thing. So when she's running around
Speaker 5: with Eric Knapowski and all these other men, they didn't
Speaker 5: know that. They thought they were in an exclusive relationship
Speaker 5: because Nannette was Nannette was savvy enough to figure out that,
Speaker 5: you know, Bill did not want to come to these
Speaker 5: sporting events with her because he told her that he goes,
Speaker 5: you know what, I already raised my kids, I'm any
Speaker 5: interested in coming to these, you know, baseball games with you.
Speaker 5: So she would bring her lovers and Eric Knapowski in particular,
Speaker 5: to these games so the other people on the team
Speaker 5: could see them. In fact, she's sitting on Eric Nappowski's
Speaker 5: lap right up until the day of the murder in
Speaker 5: front of her first ex husband. But again she's telling
Speaker 5: everybody else that, hey, Bill McLoughlin is my you know,
Speaker 5: business mentor father figure, including her first sex husband. The
Speaker 5: only person that testified during the trial that said anything
Speaker 5: that he knew was some guy who was a father
Speaker 5: of one of the kids on Nannette's son's baseball team,
Speaker 5: who actually knew that she was living with Bill. He
Speaker 5: was the only person and he didn't say anything because
Speaker 5: he didn't like Bill personally. In fact, he liked Eric
Speaker 5: Napowski better because Eric. So there was nobody to warn
Speaker 5: Bill because they didn't. She kept everybody separate and compartmentalized
Speaker 5: that she was very good at that.
Speaker 7: Now, let's get to pardon me some particulars of this
Speaker 7: and without giving anything away, let's there's she has finance,
Speaker 7: she has this checkbook, she has the ability to write
Speaker 7: a check one thousand, ten thousand. You can tell our
Speaker 7: audience how much do you write that check for? But
Speaker 7: hang on, then we want to know. We want to
Speaker 7: you have to. You should tell us outline where Eric
Speaker 7: Neposki works and it's proximity to their home and the
Speaker 7: soccer game. We're going to talk about the soccer game,
Speaker 7: which is an hour before or earlier in the evening,
Speaker 7: and Eric and Nanette and the boy is going to
Speaker 7: receive an award. So this is an amazing part of
Speaker 7: this book. Where this is incredible scene. So tell us
Speaker 7: first about this check and how much and when is
Speaker 7: it written out for? And tell us about that first.
Speaker 5: Okay, So, all through nineteen ninety four, Nannette is getting
Speaker 5: more and more brazen with this. Basically, what she's doing
Speaker 5: is embezzling money. So first she's starting out with just
Speaker 5: taking one thousand dollars and making it five thousand dollars.
Speaker 5: So she's moving money basically from account to account, so
Speaker 5: she only has access authorized access to one account, but
Speaker 5: she's moving stuff around, and she keeps the ledger, and
Speaker 5: so she entering in, she'll take a certain amount of
Speaker 5: money and she'll enter in a different amount of money.
Speaker 5: So she's taking money and since she's doing the accounting,
Speaker 5: she's not doing the proper accounting either, so she can
Speaker 5: take it. No one will notice, at least she thinks so,
Speaker 5: and that's true for all of nineteen ninety four. Then
Speaker 5: she starts getting a little more brazen. So as nineteen
Speaker 5: ninety four progresses and her relationship with Eric progresses, she
Speaker 5: starts taking bigger amounts of money and again entering in
Speaker 5: a different amount in the ledger and moving money around
Speaker 5: different accounts, so that you can't find it if it's missing, right,
Speaker 5: So all the way up to it starts getting to
Speaker 5: thirty thousand and seventy five thousand, and then on December fourteenth,
Speaker 5: which is the day before he's murdered, she writes a
Speaker 5: check for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. She signs
Speaker 5: it Bill McLoughlin, so she's forging his signature, and it
Speaker 5: is made out to a trust that she has just
Speaker 5: established in the last couple of weeks. As soon as
Speaker 5: she found out this nine million dollars was going to
Speaker 5: be coming in, she immediately establishes this new business and
Speaker 5: a new account, incorporates this new thing, and she's basically
Speaker 5: setting up a mechanism to take the rest of his
Speaker 5: money and obviously to kill him, because all of this
Speaker 5: is done in such a way that the timing is
Speaker 5: such that he would have found out that she was
Speaker 5: doing this, and so the detectives and the prosecution think
Speaker 5: that she either he was about to find out, or
Speaker 5: the clock was ticking, or something was about to happen.
Speaker 5: Maybe he really was having suspicions. We don't really know.
Speaker 5: His brother said that there was a very strange phone
Speaker 5: call right before he was killed where he said that
Speaker 5: he was stockpiling guns and someone was after him, and
Speaker 5: he was you know, he was sounding really paranoid and strange.
Speaker 5: So but he didn't mention it. Now, it's just it's
Speaker 5: something he knew something was going on. Meanwhile, Nanetta is
Speaker 5: has just gotten back from this you know, whirlwind trip
Speaker 5: back to meet Eric's parents and from her sister's wedding
Speaker 5: where he caught the garter belt and she caught the bouquet.
Speaker 5: And you know, they're sitting each other's lap. The pictures
Speaker 5: of them, you know, clearly this happy couple. This is
Speaker 5: a couple couple of weeks before Bill is killed. Right. So,
Speaker 5: and I don't know what she's thinking that nobody's ever
Speaker 5: gonna notice, nobody's ever gonna find these pictures, nobody's ever
Speaker 5: gonna find out. I don't know what she was thinking.
Speaker 5: But anyway, so she and Eric go off to this
Speaker 5: championship soccer game for her son Christopher. And you know,
Speaker 5: as I said, she has gone to every single game.
Speaker 5: She is the super soccer mom. She drives all the kids.
Speaker 5: She's always there, except on this night, her first ex
Speaker 5: husband is there. He's the father of these of her
Speaker 5: two kids. He's there, Eric is there. He thinks that
Speaker 5: Eric and and Nette are a couple, but he knows
Speaker 5: Nanette's ways because she cheated on him too, and he's thinking,
Speaker 5: you know what, she's involved with Bill and Eric. So
Speaker 5: he's but he doesn't say anything. So he sees them
Speaker 5: at about eight twenty eight twenty pm. They start like saying,
Speaker 5: we gotta go. Eric's got an eight o'clock appointment. He's like, well,
Speaker 5: but it's eight twenty and they're in overtime, you know,
Speaker 5: and it's a tide game. Where are you going?
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Speaker 5: The kid loses, and there's a championship medal ceremony, So
Speaker 5: even though he lost, there's still a metal ceremony. It's like,
Speaker 5: you know, it's not a trophy, but it's a medal,
Speaker 5: so it's still something. And if you're a great mom,
Speaker 5: aren't you going to stay and watch your kid get
Speaker 5: the medal because he did make it into the championships.
Speaker 5: Oh no, she's got to leave with Eric, so they're
Speaker 5: like running off to the car, and her first husband
Speaker 5: thinks that's pretty weird. Anyway, they disappear, and Eric, about
Speaker 5: two weeks earlier, coincidentally, has gotten this new job as
Speaker 5: a security guy at this new nightclub which is only
Speaker 5: about a two and a half minute walk from Bill's house.
Speaker 5: So it's called the Lado. I think it's the lead
Speaker 5: village area, and it's over bridge over some water from
Speaker 5: Bill's house, which is right on the water. And coincidentally,
Speaker 5: two weeks earlier, he gets this job. So Nanette and
Speaker 5: Eric tell police later that when they're questioned that you know, hey,
Speaker 5: she dropped him off at his apartment and he took
Speaker 5: a shower, and then he went to work and she
Speaker 5: went shopping. She went to the mall because it was
Speaker 5: right before Christmas. She had some shopping to do, so
Speaker 5: she comes back to Bill's house with these shopping bags
Speaker 5: and a receipt to show where she's been. And Eric,
Speaker 5: when they finally catch up to him, you know, he says, oh,
Speaker 5: he that was his story, So I'll.
Speaker 7: Stop there now tell us about the murder in itself.
Speaker 7: Bill's home in his robe and he's just got back
Speaker 7: from Vegas in his private flane. His son, the somewhat
Speaker 7: mentally disabled son, is upstairs listening to some music. And
Speaker 7: what happens.
Speaker 5: So Bill comes back. And normally on a Thursday night,
Speaker 5: Kevin is at an AA meeting and so on this
Speaker 5: particular night though, he did not go, and it's not
Speaker 5: really clear why, but he stayed home and he and
Speaker 5: his dad had some dinner, and then he went upstairs
Speaker 5: to listen to music. And around nine to ten pm
Speaker 5: he starts tearing these shots downstairs, pop pop, and then
Speaker 5: there's a pause, pop pop, and then there's a pause,
Speaker 5: pop pop, and then there's a pause. So he comes
Speaker 5: downstairs as fast as he can. As I mentioned before,
Speaker 5: he has some ambulatory problems from his brain damage, so
Speaker 5: it takes him a full minute to get downstairs and
Speaker 5: this dog is barking like crazy, and he finds his
Speaker 5: father lying on the kitchen floor and there's blood on
Speaker 5: the floor, there's some bullet case things lying around. The
Speaker 5: dog is barking like crazy. His father's glasses are askew. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and he's in his bathrobe. And so he immediately starts
Speaker 5: calling nine one one and the tragic, tragic, horrible part
Speaker 5: of this case. And they played the nine woman on
Speaker 5: tape in the courtroom and it just made you wrench inside.
Speaker 5: It was so sad. He was trying so hard to
Speaker 5: communicate with the nine one one dispatcher and she could
Speaker 5: not understand what he was saying, and it was just
Speaker 5: it must have just been horrible for him, so trying
Speaker 5: to communicate, having such problems communicating. She's like, wait, what
Speaker 5: your dog's been shot? You know, wait, did your father
Speaker 5: shoot himself? Your mom? Your dad? I mean, she just
Speaker 5: couldn't get it, but she did get that there was
Speaker 5: a gun involved. So they did end up sending an ambulance,
Speaker 5: did send the police over, but by the time they
Speaker 5: got over there, it was way too late. And in fact,
Speaker 5: by the time he was calling nine one one, his
Speaker 5: father was probably already dead because there were six shots
Speaker 5: with the nine millimeter and there were several at least
Speaker 5: several of them that would have been fatal as soon
Speaker 5: as they were shot. So he probably felt like, you know,
Speaker 5: time was running out, but in fact his dad was
Speaker 5: already dead.
Speaker 7: Now when police come, as I spoke about at the beginning,
Speaker 7: what do they find in the door and what do
Speaker 7: they find in the ground near the door, Well, they
Speaker 7: don't find it immediately, but tell us what they find
Speaker 7: and tell.
Speaker 5: Us about that, right, okay, So Kevin comes downstairs and
Speaker 5: he finds his dad. He calls nine one one. When
Speaker 5: the police arrive. They show up, and the first police
Speaker 5: who show up were actually on bikes because this is
Speaker 5: Newport Beach. This is there's a lot of water in
Speaker 5: Newport Beach and a lot of there's a pedestrian's kind
Speaker 5: of like a jogging path or you can walk on it,
Speaker 5: you can bike on it, you can roller blade on it,
Speaker 5: and that goes all the way around the peninsular area
Speaker 5: and the right where Bill lived, which was called Bay.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, I don't get this wrong. Bishar Coves
Speaker 5: and Ninette was a rollerblader and very athletic. As I said,
Speaker 5: And so the people in the house who lived there
Speaker 5: had a key to a gate that went from inside
Speaker 5: the community out to that path. So there was a
Speaker 5: gate right across the street. They lived on a cul
Speaker 5: de sac, and then there was they also had front
Speaker 5: door keys, so the pedestrian access gate keys that for
Speaker 5: that lock were given out to by the homeowners association.
Speaker 5: There were only a limited number. You had to sign
Speaker 5: out for them. You are not allowed to copy the key,
Speaker 5: it said, do not copy on you know, on keys.
Speaker 5: So they were distributed by the homeowners association on purpose
Speaker 5: to keep these to keep it secure. So anyway, when
Speaker 5: the police got there, they found two newly copied keys.
Speaker 5: One was actually literally in the door lock of the
Speaker 5: front door, just a single key with one of those
Speaker 5: little tiny metal circles that you get when you just
Speaker 5: come back from the hardware store because they give you
Speaker 5: those little tiny keyring things. And then there was another
Speaker 5: one on the doormat, and they were different colors and
Speaker 5: they were clearly, you know, shiny, brand new copies keys. Now,
Speaker 5: as they started doing some investigation, what they found was
Speaker 5: that well, because they were right near the ocean, the
Speaker 5: front door lock could get corroded with salt, so that
Speaker 5: sometimes when they had a new key they'd have to
Speaker 5: go get it reground because it wouldn't fit in properly.
Speaker 5: And then the one that was on the doormat was
Speaker 5: the one that went to the gate, the pedestrian access
Speaker 5: gate out to that path, and by the way, that
Speaker 5: path led right up to the bridge which led across
Speaker 5: the bridge over to the Thunderbird Lounge where Eric Napowski
Speaker 5: had just gotten this job. So again there was a
Speaker 5: key to the pedestrian access gate on the mat, and
Speaker 5: the front door lock had a key that was literally
Speaker 5: stuck in it, as if somebody had stuck the key
Speaker 5: in the front door lock tried to turn and get
Speaker 5: it out and it got stuck, and in his haste
Speaker 5: dropped the other key. So that's basically what the police
Speaker 5: decided that, Okay, there's two keys. They're freshly made copies.
Speaker 5: And what that means is there's a finite number of
Speaker 5: people who had access to these keys, because, like I said,
Speaker 5: they were not supposed to be copied.
Speaker 7: Now, in any investigation, homicide detectives, some experience, some more experienced,
Speaker 7: and some less experienced, will all have some kind of
Speaker 7: strategy to ascertain what really went on, and who are
Speaker 7: the likely suspects and who can be arrested if there's
Speaker 7: enough evidence. What is their strategy in what's the police strategy,
Speaker 7: what's their initial idea, and how do they go about
Speaker 7: with a strategy to try to get a confession or
Speaker 7: a conviction.
Speaker 5: Well, when you have a small department, and I'm you know,
Speaker 5: I'm saying this in other departments as well, in other small,
Speaker 5: smaller communities. You know, I live here in San Diego
Speaker 5: and that's a big communit it's the eighth largest city
Speaker 5: in the nation. Newport Beach is a much smaller place.
Speaker 5: So what's different about a small police department versus a
Speaker 5: big city police department is they have people on their force.
Speaker 5: And in Newport they rotate their detectives, so you don't
Speaker 5: have somebody who's, you know, a veteran homicide detective work
Speaker 5: in every case. They rotate them, so that the detective
Speaker 5: in this case was Tom both Or Boss and this
Speaker 5: was his first homicide case. And actually, as it turns out,
Speaker 5: it was his first and only homicide case. He had
Speaker 5: worked undercover narcotics, he had done all kinds of other things,
Speaker 5: but this was his first homicide case. Now, by the
Speaker 5: same token, as he's explained to me, that doesn't mean
Speaker 5: he was making decisions on this case. It meant that
Speaker 5: he was the lead detective, but he said he mostly
Speaker 5: was in charge of keeping the paperwork together and that
Speaker 5: the people above him were the ones who were making
Speaker 5: the decisions on what to do next, which I think
Speaker 5: is also true of smaller departments where you have the
Speaker 5: supervisory people who are more experienced, who are calling the
Speaker 5: shops and telling everybody what to do. So I think
Speaker 5: when they say lead detective in this particular case, you know,
Speaker 5: I don't want to blame him for overlooking on anything.
Speaker 5: But at the same time, he wasn't experienced, So by
Speaker 5: the same token, he was also an enterprising guy. He
Speaker 5: he was the one who said, Hey, why don't I
Speaker 5: go approach some of these hardware stores and see if
Speaker 5: I can find out if anybody's made keys there recently.
Speaker 5: As it turned out, guess what, Eric Nepowski had recently
Speaker 5: copied keys at the hardware store, you know, near near
Speaker 5: his house. So, like I said, so there are pros
Speaker 5: and cons to this small kind of smaller community approach
Speaker 5: and the experience, but that's the way it is. What
Speaker 5: it is, and it was it was.
Speaker 7: So how do they first what do they first do?
Speaker 7: What is their first idea as a likely suspect or
Speaker 7: a possible suspect, what's their first idea and how do
Speaker 7: they go about it?
Speaker 5: Well, there's you know, there's this is over some period
Speaker 5: of time, but initially I think they kind of knew, well,
Speaker 5: this probably was an inside job because of the keys, right,
Speaker 5: because of the finite number of keys. So they were searching.
Speaker 5: They were also searching for the murder weapon. And they
Speaker 5: they went looking right in the channel of water right
Speaker 5: outside his house. Didn't find any gun or anything because
Speaker 5: there's no murder weapon. There were just the bullet casings.
Speaker 5: And they didn't really know what was going on or
Speaker 5: who to look at, in particular, until Bill's memorial service,
Speaker 5: at which Nanette's son said, my boyfriend plays football. My
Speaker 5: mom's boyfriend plays football. Now, people at the funeral were like,
Speaker 5: wait a minute, Nannette was Bill's girlfriend. Who's she talking about?
Speaker 5: So right away casts out of the bag. They focus
Speaker 5: in on somebody who plays football who is hanging out
Speaker 5: with Ninnette. N Nannette has gone to stay at another
Speaker 5: house that Bill owns, which is about four minutes away
Speaker 5: on Seashore Drive. She says, Oh, I can't stay in
Speaker 5: this house where he was killed, So she's staying in
Speaker 5: this other house, which they call the Beach House, and
Speaker 5: the police starts surveilling her and that house, and within
Speaker 5: short order they see Eric Naposki come in into the house,
Speaker 5: so they start following him and they find probable cause
Speaker 5: to pull him over and bring him in for questioning
Speaker 5: in the middle of the night, after he's gotten off
Speaker 5: work at the Underbird Lounge, some kind of outstanding traffic warrants,
Speaker 5: so they bring him in for questioning about this murder.
Speaker 5: And he's like, well, you know, I've been Yeah, I've
Speaker 5: been kind of dating the net but it's like, no
Speaker 5: big deal. So he's minimizing their relationship and she's minimizing
Speaker 5: their relationship, and so the police are kind of focusing
Speaker 5: in on the two of them as suspects, but they
Speaker 5: still don't have what they need to break this case open.
Speaker 5: So what they end up doing and I ended up
Speaker 5: interviewing the prosecutor at that time, which was not the
Speaker 5: prosecutor who ultimately prosecuted this case to conviction. She was
Speaker 5: a tough cookie and the way she described it, this
Speaker 5: was an all man's kind of world. She was the
Speaker 5: only woman, and she just had a disagreement with these
Speaker 5: guys at the Newport Beach Police Department. There was a
Speaker 5: breakdown in communication. They didn't want her involved in the case.
Speaker 5: They wanted to do it their way. She wanted to
Speaker 5: do something different. They split the case into two, into
Speaker 5: the fraud with the checks, the embezzlement, and the murder,
Speaker 5: and she's like, you know, she didn't think that was
Speaker 5: a good idea, but that's what they did. So they
Speaker 5: finally arrested in a net for these fraudulent checks that
Speaker 5: they basically counted up like fifteen checks that they could
Speaker 5: figure out that she forged the bill's name on. And
Speaker 5: they thought that they were going to force her to
Speaker 5: talk about the murder, but in fact, she she just
Speaker 5: clammed up. And so she the way she tells it now,
Speaker 5: looking back, that was a big mistake and that that
Speaker 5: is what, you know, really screwed up this whole, this
Speaker 5: whole case and why it ended up turning into a
Speaker 5: cold case all these years later. She wouldn't talk, and they,
Speaker 5: I guess thought she was just going to roll over,
Speaker 5: and she didn't, so they they thought that Eric was
Speaker 5: the shooter, I think, way back then, but they just
Speaker 5: couldn't prove it.
Speaker 7: Was there any explanation what they thought they were doing
Speaker 7: by separating those charges because it's I mean, it's a
Speaker 7: minor charge. They thought because she was the pressure of
Speaker 7: being in prison would then get her to I don't
Speaker 7: I still don't understand what they thought they would do
Speaker 7: by doing that. Well, I think unusual.
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, one thing you need to understand is I
Speaker 5: can't say this with any certainty. I am only being
Speaker 5: told what I'm being told. It's all these years later.
Speaker 5: People's memories are faulty. There's a lot of politics involved
Speaker 5: in this, and people don't want to point fingers the prosecution,
Speaker 5: the prosecutor and his investigator. You know, they don't want
Speaker 5: to say anything bad about the police department. The police
Speaker 5: department's probably embarrassed after all these years. Ultimately, you know,
Speaker 5: there was a conviction and it all turned out fine.
Speaker 5: But I mean, I can't say for sure what happened
Speaker 5: back then, But I think what happened is that they
Speaker 5: thought that they had a sure thing with the fraud.
Speaker 5: That's what they could prove, and that's what they could
Speaker 5: prove in court, and so that's what they went after,
Speaker 5: and they were hoping that the murder would follow. That's
Speaker 5: that's all I can suggest at this point. It may
Speaker 5: make but I think that's what happened.
Speaker 7: Yeah, but regardless, it goes cold. And I think one
Speaker 7: thing that you convey in the book though, that and
Speaker 7: that's a pretty strong character when her demeanor when she's
Speaker 7: being interviewed is very helpful instead of being defiant, and
Speaker 7: she doesn't really dig herselves into too many holes, doesn't
Speaker 7: contradict herself. She has her story down.
Speaker 5: Yeah, as a post Aposki who's a big argumentative, you know,
Speaker 5: aggressive guy who just pisses them off. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 5: she says, oh, well, you know, I'll be helpful. I mean,
Speaker 5: you can be you can be passive, aggressively, not helpful
Speaker 5: and sort of appear like you're trying to do, you know,
Speaker 5: to go along. But she wasn't. She wasn't volunteering anything, clearly,
Speaker 5: and she she's a calm woman. She had an answer
Speaker 5: for most things that they asked her, and she, you know,
Speaker 5: she got away with it for fifteen years.
Speaker 7: Yeah, now what was it? We're run out of time.
Speaker 7: But to what was it that was the turning point?
Speaker 7: Did they have any new evidence? What was the reason
Speaker 7: for after that many years of being colled, it became
Speaker 7: suddenly prosecutable.
Speaker 5: There's an investigator named Larry Montgomery who was a former
Speaker 5: homicide detective at another police department. He went to work
Speaker 5: for the DA's office and he also worked on the
Speaker 5: Scowlar Delei own case, and he did a good job
Speaker 5: with that, helped them bring that to conviction. And this
Speaker 5: was a this was a similar case to that other one,
Speaker 5: which meaning that it was a death penalty case originally,
Speaker 5: or it looked like it could be at least, meaning
Speaker 5: that the special circumstances of financial you know, murder for
Speaker 5: financial gain were there. They did not prosecute this one
Speaker 5: as a death penalty case, but it was a very
Speaker 5: similar case in that it was a you know, largely
Speaker 5: circumstantial evidence case because they did not have the murder
Speaker 5: weapon and they did not have direct evidence, but they
Speaker 5: had all kinds of other financial evidence and all kinds
Speaker 5: of other evidence. And so they were very similar in
Speaker 5: the way that the suspects and defendants used children, use
Speaker 5: their children as pawns and manipulated and it was all
Speaker 5: about money and greed. So he came into this one.
Speaker 5: The police detective and the prosecutor really got to be
Speaker 5: close over this during the scholar Giulion investigation, and they
Speaker 5: wanted to continue to work on something else, and they
Speaker 5: basically just said, hey, do you have any other cases
Speaker 5: that you think, you know, we could take another look at,
Speaker 5: And they said, yeah, the McLoughlin case. So so they
Speaker 5: set this investigator, Lara Montgomery, onto the case and he
Speaker 5: went through every piece of evidence again. He listened to
Speaker 5: all these tapes that they had in the case, files
Speaker 5: of phone calls that they'd made, you know, phone interviews,
Speaker 5: and a bunch of taped calls that had come into
Speaker 5: the police department. And what he found were a couple
Speaker 5: of witnesses who had basically been overlooked. And what also
Speaker 5: had changed is that, you know, with new technology, the
Speaker 5: ballistics were much better, so that they were able to
Speaker 5: narrow down the murder weapon from twenty seven or twenty
Speaker 5: eight guns down to just one, and that was the
Speaker 5: Bretta ninety two F which coincidentally, Eric Neapowski had owned
Speaker 5: and said had been stolen. He didn't know where it was,
Speaker 5: couldn't find it. Couldn't produce it, so they basically were
Speaker 5: able to arrest both of them, and they reinterviewed both
Speaker 5: of them, and Eric Naposki kept saying, I have an alibi.
Speaker 5: I have an alibi, and he said this earlier too,
Speaker 5: but he never produced any phone records to back this up.
Speaker 5: He said he got a page from the Thunderbird lounge
Speaker 5: where he worked, saying he needed to come in and
Speaker 5: warned him about some boat parade traffic and he should
Speaker 5: be aware, and that he returned a page all those
Speaker 5: years ago when we used to have pagers, he apparently
Speaker 5: returned a page from a payphone using his credit card,
Speaker 5: his phone credit cards, but he never produced those records,
Speaker 5: and so by the time he was arrested, those records
Speaker 5: had long been destroyed, and he and his attorneys and
Speaker 5: Nanessa attorneys kept trying to use that as well, it's
Speaker 5: been so long, you can't properly a judic case or
Speaker 5: prosecute this case because you know our evidence and you
Speaker 5: know Eric's albi have been destroyed. Well, according to the prosecution,
Speaker 5: they did these time trials driving from point A to
Speaker 5: point B, and they're like, you know what, regardless of
Speaker 5: whether he ever made this call, he still had enough
Speaker 5: time to commit the murder, so it doesn't even matter.
Speaker 5: So there was a whole lot of you know, back
Speaker 5: and forth over these over this phone call that Eric
Speaker 5: Naposki supposedly made. His defense said it was physically impossible
Speaker 5: for him to have committed the murder because he returned
Speaker 5: his call at eight point fifty two and there's no
Speaker 5: way he could have driven from there at Newport, And
Speaker 5: the prosecution proved that he was able to do that
Speaker 5: to everybody's satisfaction, including the jury, including the judge.
Speaker 7: So how was it that the trials were split up,
Speaker 7: that he went first? And was there any indication that
Speaker 7: anyone any of the defense attorneys wanted that, Umm, oh.
Speaker 5: Okay, you're asking me a question that I'm not exactly
Speaker 5: positive of. I think this was the prosecution's choice. But basically,
Speaker 5: what happens is if you try two people like this together,
Speaker 5: you can't use their statements about each other against them.
Speaker 5: So it actually is better for probably everybody to separate
Speaker 5: defendants and trials like this. So it's not that often
Speaker 5: that you see a whole bunch of defendants tried together.
Speaker 5: It does happen, but it actually works better because you know, theoretically,
Speaker 5: the prosecution can then use completely different theories from trial
Speaker 5: to trial because you have different juries. With using the
Speaker 5: same facts, you can have different interpretations.
Speaker 7: So well, yeah, well that's that's kind of the point.
Speaker 7: Was That's the kind of point I was bringing up,
Speaker 7: because the defense attorneys sort of, well not sort of
Speaker 7: pointed it kept insisting that it was Naboski alone, So
Speaker 7: that was sort of it could have been to her
Speaker 7: advantage from him playing on that this guy's already been
Speaker 7: convicted and acted alone. Well, a bit of an advantage.
Speaker 5: From one trial you have the defense saying one thing
Speaker 5: and the prosecution saying one thing. In the next trial,
Speaker 5: you have the prosecution saying what the defense said in
Speaker 5: the last trial, we're against the other defendant. And so
Speaker 5: everybody's plenty fingers at everybody else, and it's you know,
Speaker 5: you have different juries, so they don't know. But the
Speaker 5: judge did not keep out the information that Eric Kapowski
Speaker 5: had already been convicted when Nannette finally came around for trial.
Speaker 5: But when Ninette came around for trial, Eric had already
Speaker 5: been convicted, and and so what her defense was trying
Speaker 5: to say is well, Eric's the one who shot him,
Speaker 5: and Nanette didn't have anything to do with it. In
Speaker 5: the first one, you know, he was a jealous and
Speaker 5: in the first one they were trying to his defense
Speaker 5: was trying to say, well, it could have just as
Speaker 5: easily have been the Neette who shot him, you know,
Speaker 5: I mean, it was just kind of crazy. Yeah, But
Speaker 5: the defense for both of them were that it's been
Speaker 5: fifteen years, this just isn't fair to prosecute them because
Speaker 5: we don't have all the evidence. It's been destroyed, which
Speaker 5: wasn't true, but that was what both of them said,
Speaker 5: and that the police investigation was so shoddy and so
Speaker 5: poor that you know, you can't trust anything they say.
Speaker 7: Mm hm, Well, I mean they have to make a defense.
Speaker 7: But obviously sure he concurred with the prosecution.
Speaker 5: So right, Well, Matt Murphy the prosecutor, he's pretty he's
Speaker 5: a pretty amazing prosecutor. He's very convincing and very persuasive.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so I did. I did an admirable job, obviously, Right.
Speaker 7: What was the atmosphere like at the trial? There was
Speaker 7: there was a lot of spectators and basically how was
Speaker 7: the trial received basically by the media.
Speaker 5: Well, I think, you know, people were really more interested
Speaker 5: in Nnette because Nnette is a woman, and it's more
Speaker 5: interesting when you have an attractive murderer these days in
Speaker 5: our culture, you know. And this got to be a
Speaker 5: more high profile trial because Eric Nipopski was in the NFL,
Speaker 5: so that's the sort of a celebrity status. Excuse me,
Speaker 5: but Nannette really was the story as as far as
Speaker 5: I could tell, and as far as I think the
Speaker 5: media was concerned. They really felt like, you know, it's
Speaker 5: just she's just more interesting as a person. But they
Speaker 5: never really painted her during the trial either trials, as
Speaker 5: a three dimensional person. It was she was just like
Speaker 5: this horrible, terrible, sleazy, cheating, you know, seductress. And even
Speaker 5: her own attorney it was bizarre. He just kept bringing
Speaker 5: up all this horrible behavior. But he said, but no
Speaker 5: matter how much you hate her, you can't can you
Speaker 5: can't convict her just because you don't like who she is.
Speaker 5: It doesn't make her murderer. And I'm not sure that
Speaker 5: was the best tactic because by the time you were done,
Speaker 5: I mean, hitter lickworst than the prosecutor did. I mean,
Speaker 5: it was kind of bizarre.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I know what point he was trying to make.
Speaker 7: But yeah, you're right. He went on and on and
Speaker 7: on and was like, wow, that's uh yeah, you're You've
Speaker 7: convinced them, Yeah.
Speaker 5: You have right, right, And so the thing was, you know,
Speaker 5: the other thing that we didn't quite get to it, and
Speaker 5: I know we have like two seconds left. But the
Speaker 5: interesting thing at the very end was that Eric Kapowski,
Speaker 5: after he was convicted, then comes out with this story
Speaker 5: about oh, it wasn't me, it was a hit man
Speaker 5: that Ninnette hired, which delayed everything and sentence things, and
Speaker 5: had the prosecutor and Larry Montgomery the investigator, go back
Speaker 5: again and try to research this whole new theory but
Speaker 5: it never held any water, and they.
Speaker 7: Were both sent Yeah. Yeah, so they're both sentenced to
Speaker 7: life without any possibility to parole, no death penalty, but
Speaker 7: right secured away, secured away, both of them, and amazing.
Speaker 5: He's already been denied. So there you go.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, well, I mean there has to be something
Speaker 7: wrong with the trial anyway, but with you know, there's
Speaker 7: been some surprising appeals though, so I didn't I shouldn't
Speaker 7: say anything. Anything can happen.
Speaker 5: Was the deliberations in her case were pretty quick.
Speaker 7: So so it was an amazing experience attending the trial obviously,
Speaker 7: you know, it was interesting to me.
Speaker 5: To go and interview Eric Napowski the trials, you know,
Speaker 5: the trials or trials, and I couldn't I could not
Speaker 5: believe all the stuff that she had done to people.
Speaker 5: I was amazed at that and the fact that she
Speaker 5: had no emotion whatsoever. Ever, she just sat there.
Speaker 7: Like a stone.
Speaker 5: Wow. It's like, wow, do you have a heart? Like
Speaker 5: I said, she has a deep, dark hole in her soul,
Speaker 5: that woman.
Speaker 7: When you interviewed Naposki, was he still in denial or
Speaker 7: what And was there any talk of him being manipulated?
Speaker 4: Oh no, he.
Speaker 5: Admitted, you know, she she yeah, she she took me.
Speaker 5: She's a liar. You know, I believed her at the time.
Speaker 5: I loved her at the time, you know, I But
Speaker 5: he also was like, you know, I'm innocent. I didn't
Speaker 5: do this. You know, there was a hit man. You know.
Speaker 5: I talked him for almost seven hours and he I
Speaker 5: could barely get a word in edgewise. He really liked
Speaker 5: to talk, and that was how he was with the
Speaker 5: with the detectives as well. You know, they were trying
Speaker 5: to ask him questions, and he just kept taking over.
Speaker 5: So I let him do that, and I said, look,
Speaker 5: I'm going to let you talk, but I need to
Speaker 5: talk to I need to ask some questions. And so
Speaker 5: he did let me. But he's a character. You know.
Speaker 5: What's the thing that I always say is people who
Speaker 5: were convicted killers is they don't seem like killers. They're charming,
Speaker 5: they are friendly. Oftentimes they are you know, you would
Speaker 5: have no idea, and he was. He fit right into
Speaker 5: that mold.
Speaker 7: So yeah, well that's the scary part of the capacity.
Speaker 7: You say, geez, I almost could be friends with this person. Almost.
Speaker 5: Wow, that was a story. So I said, well, okay,
Speaker 5: I need to just go research this. So I did,
Speaker 5: you know, and and I was like, and I started
Speaker 5: looking at the evidence, and I started looking at the
Speaker 5: stuff that he said. It just didn't hold together.
Speaker 7: Yeah, well that's the thing. Yeah, that's that's amazing that
Speaker 7: you had that opportunity to listen to his story first.
Speaker 5: And right, oh, I always have, you know what, I
Speaker 5: go into these things with it. I try to go
Speaker 5: in with an open mind. I don't just immediately dismiss anybody,
Speaker 5: even if they've been convicted, because you know, there are convictions,
Speaker 5: and I'm willing to take a look. And you know,
Speaker 5: I'm I'm trained as an objective journalist, so I do
Speaker 5: approach these these cases that way, even though people have
Speaker 5: already been convicted. I do approach it that way. And
Speaker 5: then I write the story the way I write the story,
Speaker 5: and people, I mean, I don't. I don't write a
Speaker 5: book unless somebody's been convicted. So I wait till everything's over.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's that's a pretty safe bet these days, because
Speaker 7: there's been a few books where I was surprised where
Speaker 7: a publishing company actually said, Okay, we're going to publish
Speaker 7: this story before the outcome of a trial.
Speaker 5: And oh, that happens all the time.
Speaker 7: If we're getting it wrong, we're getting it wrong though,
Speaker 7: you know so well surprising surprising jury results, so it
Speaker 7: can happen yep, and appeals too, So I never do that.
Speaker 5: I always wait till there's a conviction.
Speaker 7: I'm pretty happy with the conviction. Like in Canada here
Speaker 7: and you're originally from Canada, I believe Montreal they try to,
Speaker 7: you know, I don't know. Some people or hesitant to
Speaker 7: write before the appeal is finished, which is another year,
Speaker 7: another year, and a half or so, Now you'd be
Speaker 7: waiting forever for that. Well you're already waiting forever, as
Speaker 7: you know, So the maybe a year and a half
Speaker 7: is not And you know, I mean, especially if you've
Speaker 7: looked at the trial and your experience that looking at trials,
Speaker 7: and no one can ever say for sure that something
Speaker 7: won't be overturned an appeal, but unless something was dramatically
Speaker 7: wrong with the trial, and so well, you know, my.
Speaker 5: First book, Poisoned Love with Kristin Rossam. She is still
Speaker 5: she's over, She's gone through the appeals process. Her appeal
Speaker 5: was rejected in the state courts, or appeal was rejected
Speaker 5: in the federal courts, or appeals rejected by the US
Speaker 5: Supreme Court. She's still found an attorney to take another
Speaker 5: whack and coming in in a side door and is
Speaker 5: still going at it. I mean, in her two thousand
Speaker 5: and two and we're in twenty fourteen, she's still trying
Speaker 5: to get free.
Speaker 7: So some people to keep trying, some people can keep
Speaker 7: using the system. Yeah, certainly, Yeah, and there's been some outcomes,
Speaker 7: so it's worth a shot. I guess if you got
Speaker 7: nothing better to do, and you're sitting there anyway, why not, right.
Speaker 5: It's not your buddy.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that makes a taxpayer feel good. It's listening right now,
Speaker 7: so exactly. Yeah, Well, I want to thank you very
Speaker 7: much for this. What's your you have something coming down
Speaker 7: the pike. What's the next project? If you could be
Speaker 7: so kind as.
Speaker 5: Working on a case. This is kind of interesting that
Speaker 5: also came out of Dead Reckoning, the Scalar de Leon case.
Speaker 5: Tom and Jackie Hawks, who were the victims in that
Speaker 5: case and tied to an anchor and thrown overboard right
Speaker 5: off New prote Why the Newport Beach Department was investigating
Speaker 5: that they originally met in a town called Prescott. Actually
Speaker 5: it's pronounced Prescott like biscuit, Prescott, Arizona. And I am
Speaker 5: now writing a book about a case, a murder case
Speaker 5: out of Prescott, Arizona. So somebody who had read that
Speaker 5: Dead Reckoning was sending me story ideas and book ideas.
Speaker 5: In the first one, I'm like, no, no, And then
Speaker 5: she tried again, and she was sending me these clippings
Speaker 5: from the newspaper from the trial of Stephen Democher, who
Speaker 5: was ultimately convicted and sentenced for killing his just recently
Speaker 5: divorced wife Carol Kennedy. And the interesting thing about this
Speaker 5: case is that they have two daughters, and the two
Speaker 5: daughters to this day believe that their father did not
Speaker 5: do it and that their father was wrongly convicted, and
Speaker 5: so does his entire family. So this is a really
Speaker 5: interesting case to me because there were a lot of
Speaker 5: twists and turns things that went wrong. There was a
Speaker 5: trial on the first trial, and he was ultimately convicted
Speaker 5: in a second trial, but there was he was The
Speaker 5: murder occurred about a month after their divorce was finalized,
Speaker 5: and there had been a long battle over money, So
Speaker 5: it's another one of these cases about money and financial gain,
Speaker 5: and the prosecution basically says that his motive was so
Speaker 5: that he didn't have to pay her alimony. So the
Speaker 5: day that he was supposed to pay his first alimony
Speaker 5: payment of six thousand dollars, he didn't make the payment
Speaker 5: and the next day she was murdered. And then there
Speaker 5: were two life insurance payments of seven hundred and fifty
Speaker 5: thousand dollars total that he was supposedly the beneficiary. But
Speaker 5: because they were divorced, they were then going to go
Speaker 5: to the daughters, and what ended up happening is that money.
Speaker 5: He convinced them that money needs to go to me
Speaker 5: and my defense. And so there were all these transfers.
Speaker 5: And so even after he was charged with the murder,
Speaker 5: he was later charged with a whole bunch of other
Speaker 5: things that happened while he was in jail, with the
Speaker 5: transfer of all that money, which ended up getting spent
Speaker 5: on his first trial, which was a mistrial. To so
Speaker 5: private attorney's got all that money, the daughter's got none
Speaker 5: of it, and that's gone. And there was a whole
Speaker 5: there's a whole bunch of other stuff that was just
Speaker 5: really crazy, and these attorneys were accusing each other of
Speaker 5: impropriety and the judge and it was just like, it's
Speaker 5: a crazy case. It's crazy fiction, right, it's crazy. It's
Speaker 5: like crazier than fiction. I always pick cases that are
Speaker 5: crazier than fiction.
Speaker 7: Yeah, well that's great, it's amazing. It makes for amazing storytelling,
Speaker 7: that's for sure.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 7: Yeah, we look forward to that one. So, yeah, we'll
Speaker 7: be talking to you in the new year, or in
Speaker 7: this year, I should say, knowing how it'll be out of.
Speaker 5: Yeah, because I have to write it first. Give me
Speaker 5: some time to write it.
Speaker 7: Well, I mean, I know you're prolific. So yeah, well
Speaker 7: not's that bad. Okay, good, thank god. Well, I want
Speaker 7: to thank you very much Kaitlin for coming on and
Speaker 7: talking about I'll take care of You, a very fascinating book,
Speaker 7: and thank you for coming on for a fascinating interview.
Speaker 5: Well, thank you once again for having me on, and
Speaker 5: I'm glad I was here.
Speaker 7: Well, thank you and have yourself a good night
Speaker 5: You too, all right, by bye bye