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See website for d. 27 00:01:03.039 --> 00:01:03.520 Luck to. 28 00:01:13.439 --> 00:01:16.879 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 29 00:01:16.959 --> 00:01:20.000 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 30 00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:26.159 written about them. Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker BTK. 31 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:30.879 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 32 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:35.079 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 33 00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:38.560 your host, journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 34 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:52.439 Good Evening. This episode is brought to you by Audible, 35 00:01:52.840 --> 00:01:59.400 the world's leading name in digital audiobooks. Nanette Johnston Packard 36 00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:03.719 Sex divorce like to met meet men at the gym 37 00:02:04.040 --> 00:02:08.080 and through personal ads. Soon after she began dating millionaire 38 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:11.159 Bill McLaughlin. He moved her and her kids into his 39 00:02:11.199 --> 00:02:14.719 bayfront home in Newport Beach. But one man was never 40 00:02:14.840 --> 00:02:19.400 enough for Nennette. Eric Napowski, who her NFL linebacker lover, 41 00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:24.240 fulfilled Thennette's wilder cravings. Together they schemed to make her 42 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:29.039 fiance's fortune their own. When McLaughlin was gunned down, authorities 43 00:02:29.080 --> 00:02:34.240 had suspicions, but no proof. Pulitzer nominated writer Caitlin Rother 44 00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:36.840 explores this chilling story of a woman who seemed to 45 00:02:36.879 --> 00:02:41.240 have it all until justice finally had its day. The 46 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:43.919 book we're profiling this evening is I'll take care of 47 00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:47.919 You with my special guest journalist and author, Caitlin Rother. 48 00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:49.879 Welcome back to the program and thank you for a 49 00:02:49.919 --> 00:02:51.840 Greenness interview. Kaitlyn Rother. 50 00:02:52.800 --> 00:02:55.120 Oh, thanks for having me on again. It's always fun. 51 00:02:56.120 --> 00:02:58.360 Now, it's always my pleasure in our audience as well. 52 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:06.000 Now let's get to this my typical question without giving 53 00:03:06.039 --> 00:03:10.039 too much away, why did you why were you interested 54 00:03:10.039 --> 00:03:12.520 in this story, and how did you come to write 55 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:15.439 this book I'll take care of you. 56 00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:20.159 Well, this book actually came out of another book that 57 00:03:20.360 --> 00:03:25.039 I wrote a few books ago, called Dead Reckoning. The 58 00:03:25.039 --> 00:03:28.520 same police department, the same prosecutor, and actually one of 59 00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:32.080 the same defense attorneys were all involved in this previous case. 60 00:03:32.919 --> 00:03:36.039 Same DA investigator as well, who took it up as 61 00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:38.680 a cold case. But I was working on the other book, 62 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:43.639 which came out some years ago, and the detective sergeant 63 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:47.240 that I had been working with getting information from and 64 00:03:47.319 --> 00:03:50.400 following along and calling and nagging him for various things, 65 00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:53.560 he said, yeah, I'm actually working on this arrest warrant. 66 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:56.000 We're going to go after this woman. She was a 67 00:03:56.080 --> 00:03:58.840 piece of work. And I said, oh, tell me about 68 00:03:58.840 --> 00:04:02.280 this case. So that being this case, which was a 69 00:04:02.319 --> 00:04:05.759 cold case by then. It took fifteen years for Annette 70 00:04:05.759 --> 00:04:09.560 and her lanebacker lover, Eric Naposki to be arrested for 71 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:12.919 the murder of Bill McLoughlin. But it was just interesting 72 00:04:13.039 --> 00:04:16.040 that I was able to follow it from the beginning 73 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:18.519 of this second phase and all the way through two 74 00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:21.879 trials and sentencings and what have you, and was able 75 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:23.319 to work with some of the same people on this 76 00:04:23.399 --> 00:04:26.639 other book. So very different though in terms of the 77 00:04:26.680 --> 00:04:30.560 way that they handled the investigation. So the Dead Reckoning 78 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:34.079 was the Skylar DeLeon's case, and they handled that one beautifully. 79 00:04:34.439 --> 00:04:37.480 This one did not go so well in the first 80 00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:41.519 stage of the investigation, in the initial initial stage of it. 81 00:04:43.079 --> 00:04:46.240 Yes, I interviewed you about Dead Reckoning a few years ago, 82 00:04:46.279 --> 00:04:49.680 so even not about three or four times now with 83 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:53.279 your projects. Yeah, so yeah, yeah. 84 00:04:53.560 --> 00:04:57.480 If I could just add a little bit. But the 85 00:04:57.560 --> 00:05:01.360 thing that actually grabbed me more currently in a more 86 00:05:01.399 --> 00:05:05.720 timely way was I was drawn to this case not 87 00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:09.279 just because I knew some of the characters, but because 88 00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:15.519 I really feel like money corrupts, and this case drew 89 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:17.360 me for some of the same reasons that the other 90 00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:21.680 case did. For the greed and the materialism that you see, 91 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:24.639 you know, portrayed in shows like The Real Housewives of 92 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:28.800 Orange County and The OC which was a show that 93 00:05:28.879 --> 00:05:31.439 was on TV some years ago. But just the way 94 00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:35.279 that people seem to think that, you know, money and 95 00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:38.959 appearances are so important that that's one of the more 96 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:42.240 thematic reasons that this case really really drew me in, 97 00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:46.319 because I feel like that's one of our major problems 98 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:48.759 in our society today and in our culture, of how 99 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:52.680 much importance people put on money and appearances, and you know, 100 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:56.000 that leads to some people stealing from other people and 101 00:05:56.040 --> 00:05:59.480 committing fraud and having so much cosmetic surgery that you 102 00:05:59.480 --> 00:06:03.120 can't even recognize them anymore. So those were a couple 103 00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:05.560 of the things that Nnnette ended up doing. 104 00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:10.560 Right, Well, let's get to that right now. Let's because 105 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:13.519 you do, I got to congratulate you on a very, 106 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:16.480 very vivid betrayal of these characters. So let's start with 107 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:21.000 the most colorful character I think is Nenette Johnston Packard 108 00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:24.000 and his various names be along the way, because she's 109 00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:28.160 ends up married four times. So tell us about Nannette. 110 00:06:28.360 --> 00:06:31.959 But yeah, she didn't take her third husband's name. 111 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:37.480 Okay, But to tell us about Nanette and a little 112 00:06:37.519 --> 00:06:40.240 as much as you explain in the book. Tell us 113 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:43.480 about Nnette, Well. 114 00:06:43.319 --> 00:06:45.720 That's a very complicated question. I could probably take half 115 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:47.360 an hour to answer. I'll try to keep it short. 116 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:51.879 But she was a very different kind of person from 117 00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:55.560 whom I've written about before. So I was also drawn 118 00:06:55.639 --> 00:06:57.959 to this case for that reason. I like to have 119 00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:00.839 a different even though there's so many out there, there 120 00:07:00.839 --> 00:07:03.360 are only so many murders that are interesting to me 121 00:07:03.560 --> 00:07:07.120 and that are worth a book, and this woman. The 122 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:09.480 more that I got into this case, the more I 123 00:07:09.560 --> 00:07:14.000 just could not believe just how extreme she was. She 124 00:07:14.199 --> 00:07:17.759 was an extreme liar and an extreme cheat and a fraud, 125 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:23.720 and she was incredibly sexual and manipulative and seductive. And 126 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:26.560 I just kept thinking to myself, what is it about 127 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:30.480 her that drew in so many of these men? And 128 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:33.079 what can people learn from this book? Because I don't 129 00:07:33.079 --> 00:07:36.240 want to just you know, I'm not writing books about 130 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:41.480 murders to sensationalized violence. I am writing about murder to 131 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:44.800 try to figure out what makes people do these things 132 00:07:44.839 --> 00:07:47.560 to other people? What is it about them? What happened 133 00:07:47.560 --> 00:07:50.480 to them, was there anything in their background as a child, 134 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:53.439 And I was not really able to pin that down 135 00:07:53.480 --> 00:07:57.120 with her because she was so good at creating these different, 136 00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:01.319 you know, faces for herself that it was difficult. So 137 00:08:01.399 --> 00:08:04.639 I did end up getting some answers from her third husband, 138 00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:08.279 who you know, got close to her, and I think 139 00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:12.600 actually maybe the only husband, if you know, other than 140 00:08:12.680 --> 00:08:15.120 maybe her first husband when she was still seventeen when 141 00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:17.800 she first got married her third husband, it sounds to 142 00:08:17.800 --> 00:08:20.399 me like she really fell in love with him. But 143 00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:22.839 he ended up finding out a few things about her, 144 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:24.800 but he still didn't know who she really was. And 145 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:28.160 that was who Nanette was, somebody who was different to 146 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:31.480 everybody she met. She lied about who she was. She 147 00:08:31.560 --> 00:08:35.360 adopted other people's successes as her own. She told people 148 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:38.399 that she was someone she wasn't, and she had cosmetic 149 00:08:38.440 --> 00:08:41.159 surgery to make herself into something she wanted to be. 150 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:44.399 And frankly, I don't know even what that was, other 151 00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:47.559 than she wanted to paint herself as you know, as 152 00:08:47.639 --> 00:08:48.919 some of these reality stars. 153 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:49.039 Do. 154 00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:51.360 You know, I have money, I'm pretty, I have a 155 00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:56.679 lot of men, very narcissistic, wanted so many clothes that 156 00:08:57.159 --> 00:08:59.639 you know, her entire closet was full of clothes. In fact, 157 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:01.759 many them still had price tags on them, so it 158 00:09:01.799 --> 00:09:05.320 was like she needed to surround herself with expensive things 159 00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:08.840 to make herself feel worthy, and yet at the same time, 160 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:14.200 she also was I don't know if this is you know, 161 00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:17.440 she was pretending to be a supermom or really felt 162 00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:20.039 like she was a supermom. But she attended every sports 163 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:24.000 game of her sons and every dance recital for her daughter. 164 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:27.240 She brought her kids cupcakes on their birthday, even when 165 00:09:27.240 --> 00:09:30.559 they were in college, and she was, you know, doing 166 00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:33.440 some of these things, dating all these men and getting 167 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:36.919 money and spending money other people's money on her kids. 168 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:39.679 So maybe they thought she was a great mom too. 169 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:42.919 I don't really know. But she used this mom thing 170 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:46.279 to draw in these men, to make them feel like 171 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:48.960 they were part of a family, and that was one 172 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:53.480 of her manipulative mechanisms. So in the end, though, what 173 00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:56.200 my theory was that Nanette really just wanted to be 174 00:09:56.279 --> 00:10:00.799 somebody other than herself. I told you it was a 175 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:01.320 long answer. 176 00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:03.639 Yeah, that's not so long. 177 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:04.320 Now. 178 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:07.840 We'll get to the beginning of this story then, and 179 00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:12.120 we'll talk about how she puts an ad in a magazine. 180 00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:14.759 A lot of people would be online, but she puts 181 00:10:14.960 --> 00:10:17.840 an ad in a magazine for wealthy men and tell 182 00:10:17.919 --> 00:10:19.639 us what that ad was. 183 00:10:21.159 --> 00:10:23.240 Well, you have to remember this was nineteen ninety four, 184 00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:26.080 so this was before the days of online dating. So 185 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:29.080 today she probably will that's true, you know, match dot 186 00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:32.279 com or something, but all, let's be honest. Match dot 187 00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:35.440 com doesn't allow you to look for wealthy men only, 188 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:37.360 although I guess you could put that in your profile. 189 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:42.679 But anyway, she advertised in a singles magazine called Singles Connection, 190 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:46.120 and she said for wealthy men only. That was the 191 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:49.759 title of the ad. She dressed up in this white 192 00:10:49.799 --> 00:10:53.320 feather boa and had on this little come hither outfit, 193 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:58.039 you know, frufreugh hair. It was a boudoir shot essentially, 194 00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:02.559 but head and shoulders, and she basically said, I'll take 195 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:05.240 care of you if you take care of me, and 196 00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:07.559 so she pretty much came out and said it. So 197 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:13.120 Bill McLaughlin answered this ad. And the police know this 198 00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:18.840 because they found a stack of notes back back and forth, 199 00:11:19.519 --> 00:11:24.279 presumably because they were cards in a stack and Bill 200 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:26.159 was very meticulous, and so he had a stack of 201 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:28.480 them in the earliest one was at the bottom, which 202 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:31.039 was the first one, and it was addressed to him 203 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:34.600 in the mail. So it's clear that, you know, he 204 00:11:34.759 --> 00:11:38.440 was answering her ad because her his kids did not 205 00:11:38.600 --> 00:11:41.000 want to believe that their dad would have answered a 206 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:43.600 personal ad, but there there was proof that he did. 207 00:11:44.080 --> 00:11:47.039 He did mail this thing to her anyway, So she, 208 00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:50.360 you know, pretty much gave her measurements and height and 209 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:52.960 and said a bunch of stuff that really ends up 210 00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:56.200 not being true. I don't know when she met him, 211 00:11:56.279 --> 00:12:00.639 she told him she had an advanced college degree, when 212 00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:03.360 in fact, you know, and she graduated high school early. 213 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:07.679 She was a valedictorian, she had finished college earlier than 214 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:11.120 you know, the four years, and she had an advanced 215 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:13.960 business degree. Well, in fact, she dropped out of high 216 00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:18.360 school and she was not valedictorian. She went to work 217 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:21.200 at a gym, and she was really good at sales, 218 00:12:21.399 --> 00:12:23.759 and so she got promoted quickly. But all of this 219 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:28.039 stuff about her education was completely made up. So he 220 00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:32.279 moved her into his his house pretty quickly, and they 221 00:12:32.279 --> 00:12:36.440 got along great. And you know, he told his cousin Barbara, 222 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:39.960 who I quote in the book, you know, I really 223 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:42.559 met this, you know, pretty lady, and I really like 224 00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:44.720 her law, and we get along really well. And da 225 00:12:44.759 --> 00:12:47.840 da da da dah. Anyway, she she she weaseled her 226 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:52.039 way into the house and into his eventually into his checkbook. 227 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:55.559 So now let's go backwards a little bit. So let's 228 00:12:55.600 --> 00:13:03.519 introduce mister McLaughlin William Francis Blacklin and and the age difference. 229 00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:06.840 In nineteen ninety four, she was twenty nine, he was 230 00:13:06.879 --> 00:13:09.480 fifty five. So a few years earlier, three years earlier, 231 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:15.840 she's twenty six, he's fifty two. The eight sounds right, 232 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:18.320 So he, you know, because. 233 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:23.600 Newly divorced, he had three grown kids. His youngest son 234 00:13:23.879 --> 00:13:26.600 was I think nineteen at the time when they met, 235 00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:31.039 and his older he had two daughters, and one was 236 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:35.159 in Japan teaching and the other one was teaching at 237 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:42.879 a high school nearby. And he had, you know, thought 238 00:13:42.919 --> 00:13:46.159 he was done with being a you know, a dad essentially, 239 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:50.840 but his son ended up getting into a skateboarding accident, 240 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:53.440 meaning that a drunk driver you know, ran him over. 241 00:13:53.480 --> 00:13:55.919 He hit his horrible brain injury. He was in a coma. 242 00:13:57.120 --> 00:13:58.639 They weren't sure he was going to come back. So 243 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:01.639 when he came out of it, he had some deficiencies 244 00:14:01.799 --> 00:14:04.799 and one of them was that he you know, when 245 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:07.480 he got upset or when he got very anxious, he 246 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:10.320 when he tried to talk, he sounded like he was drunk, 247 00:14:10.759 --> 00:14:13.159 so it was hard to understand him. He was kind 248 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:16.360 of slurry, and he wasn't able to walk as well. 249 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:19.639 He was wasn't as athletic obviously as he used to be. 250 00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:22.240 And he still had a hard time writing as well. 251 00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:25.799 So he was working on that with the therapy, and 252 00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:27.639 he was living in the house and one of you know, 253 00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:32.360 he's very frustrated, so he was actually using drugs and 254 00:14:32.440 --> 00:14:35.399 drinking more than his dad appreciated. So you know, he's like, 255 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:39.000 you need to get into AA and and I'm going 256 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:40.759 and he made him sign a contract and he had 257 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:45.039 some drug testing kiss in the refrigerator. And meanwhile, Nannette 258 00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:47.399 was living with both of them in the house, and 259 00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:50.080 she had her two kids would come and stay because 260 00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:54.799 she shared custody, and they moved into Bill's daughter's rooms 261 00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:57.840 pretty quickly. And so the older Bill's daughters were a 262 00:14:57.879 --> 00:15:01.720 little taken aback by that Wow left and she's just 263 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:04.919 moved in and moved her kids in and Wow, so 264 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:08.320 they were not thrilled with her. He thought she was, 265 00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:11.759 you know, the greatest thing. You know, he was having 266 00:15:11.799 --> 00:15:15.039 a good time with her. Clearly, he was also a 267 00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:17.679 very bright man, a very educated man, and he was 268 00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:20.840 a wealthy man because he had invented a medical device 269 00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:25.559 that separated plasma from blood. He invented this with a 270 00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:29.440 partner and then subsequently got into this major legal battle 271 00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:32.360 with this partner, and so there were royalties that had 272 00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:34.679 been coming into the tune of a couple million a year, 273 00:15:35.480 --> 00:15:38.759 and then once this lawsuit kept going and going and going, 274 00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:42.519 it was very expensive, very prustrating for him. They put 275 00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:45.639 some of those royalties into a fund that he did 276 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:48.720 not have access to while they were in the middle 277 00:15:48.759 --> 00:15:51.600 of this lawsuit. So he was wealthy, but there was 278 00:15:51.639 --> 00:15:53.559 a bunch of money that he didn't have access to. 279 00:15:53.679 --> 00:15:55.639 So meanwhile, he and the neette were working on a 280 00:15:55.720 --> 00:15:59.840 number of different projects, real estate projects, various other things 281 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:04.039 he was trying to do with some related technology to 282 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:08.200 the blood device, So he was he was busy working away, 283 00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:11.159 but he was struggling financially in the last year of 284 00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:15.039 his life, so things were things were kind of iffy 285 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:19.720 with his finances, but she had some plans to change that. 286 00:16:22.039 --> 00:16:26.480 Now you paint this portrayal of these people. But what 287 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:30.000 did what did really Ninette look like? In comparison? Will 288 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:34.600 say to this educated Bill McLaughlin, rich guy, he got 289 00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:39.200 out of a nasty divorce, so it he was very 290 00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:42.360 interested in this woman was what he thought was injecting 291 00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:46.440 some real, uh you know, some happiness in his life 292 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:50.000 for a change. Souse, What what did she look like? 293 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:52.200 What did he look like? And what was the what 294 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:55.840 did the relationship just look like? From outsiders? Friends of 295 00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:57.759 Bill will say, what did it look like? 296 00:16:57.840 --> 00:16:59.000 How did she look physically? 297 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:03.600 Yeah, physically and sort of just in terms of they 298 00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:05.880 went out with people? What did what did it seem 299 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:08.440 like the couple was like? The dynamic of the couple? 300 00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:14.920 Right? Okay? She she had she was of Indian as 301 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.680 in from India descent, not Native American, and so her 302 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:23.480 father was Indian. Her mother was from the Chicago area, 303 00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:28.519 so she was half white and half Indian. So she 304 00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:31.440 has a different kind of look about her. But you know, 305 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:33.440 you wouldn't you wouldn't know from looking at her that 306 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:37.480 she was of Indian descent. So she had dark eyes, 307 00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:44.000 she had dark really kinky, curly kind of frizzy hair, 308 00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:48.640 and she started coloring it, and it also looked like 309 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:50.519 it was some bleached, so it's kind of hard to tell, 310 00:17:50.920 --> 00:17:52.799 you know, which was what was the sun and what 311 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:59.480 was the hair color. But she was almost blonde, which 312 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:02.880 you know, for somebody with Indian descent, you can imagine 313 00:18:02.920 --> 00:18:06.359 they're dark, dark haired, dark eyes, and a you know, 314 00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:09.279 different tint to the skin. So I saw her in court. 315 00:18:09.799 --> 00:18:14.400 She didn't really look olive skinned, but she was. She 316 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:18.640 definitely didn't look, you know, completely white. So anyway, she 317 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:23.079 was attractive at the time. She was very athletic, very 318 00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:25.200 much in shape, went to the gym all the time, 319 00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:29.680 and apparently dressed to the nine. So she was very 320 00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:34.000 well dressed. And that's partly because Bill was buying her stuff. 321 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:38.160 Bill was you know, bought her of some breast implants. 322 00:18:38.279 --> 00:18:41.920 Bill took her on vacations. Bill said she didn't have 323 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:43.799 to work as long as she was living in the 324 00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:45.799 house because he was going to take care of her. 325 00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:47.839 I mean, that was the deal, right, So she had 326 00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:50.759 plenty of time to work on her appearance. Bill, on 327 00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:54.559 the other hand, he was also athletic. He did manage 328 00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:57.440 to keep himself in good shape. He was a decent 329 00:18:57.440 --> 00:18:59.519 looking guy. You know, I wouldn't say he was a 330 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:02.160 gorgeous man, but you know, he was not bad looking. 331 00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:06.519 But he wasn't young. You know, he had money and 332 00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:09.680 but he was he was in good shape, and he 333 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:14.400 did work at it, and apparently he would. I don't 334 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:15.920 think he dressed up a lot. 335 00:19:16.519 --> 00:19:19.319 But you know, hey, guys, it is Ryan. I'm not 336 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:20.920 sure if you know this about me, but I'm a 337 00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:22.599 bit of a fun fanatic when I can. 338 00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:24.519 I like to work, but I like fun too. 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Has anyone seen 350 00:19:55.880 --> 00:19:57.200 the bride and Broom? 351 00:19:57.200 --> 00:19:57.599 Sorry? 352 00:19:57.839 --> 00:19:58.799 Sorry we're here. 353 00:19:59.039 --> 00:19:59.920 We were getting lucky. 354 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.279 I'm the Limo and we lost track of time. No 355 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:05.319 Lucky Land casino with cash prizes that had up quicker 356 00:20:05.319 --> 00:20:09.519 than a guess registry. Well luckish, I pronounced you lucky. 357 00:20:10.119 --> 00:20:13.400 Lucky Land slots dot com. Daily bonuses are waiting, no 358 00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:16.079 purchase necessary void were prohibited by Lot eight team plus 359 00:20:16.119 --> 00:20:18.519 terms and conditions a flag. See website for details. 360 00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:21.640 Had a nice place on the beach, and you know, 361 00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:24.319 they would go out. He would bring her on business dinners, 362 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:27.839 which was something I guess his wife, his ex wife, 363 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:30.720 didn't really like to do and she didn't enjoy the 364 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:33.559 business aspect of it, and Nnette really did. Nnette was 365 00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:36.640 trying to get every soak up every little piece of 366 00:20:36.680 --> 00:20:39.599 information that she could from Bill and learn from him, 367 00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:41.799 and I think he enjoyed that. I think he enjoyed 368 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:43.759 that she was engaged in his life in a way 369 00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:46.960 that his ex wife had not been. And so, by 370 00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:51.000 all appearances, Bill's friends all thought they were this you know, 371 00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:54.880 I wouldn't say loving couple, but exclusive couple. They got 372 00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:58.319 along well. He was affectionate with her, He was very 373 00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:02.039 affectionate with his kids. Kind of all kinds of snapshots 374 00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:04.839 of him, you know, cuddling with her kids on the couch, 375 00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:08.759 taking them on his private plane, and taking them on 376 00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:12.079 his private boat. You know. So she's living the high 377 00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:15.839 life and seems like everything's great. But he also is 378 00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:18.200 spending a couple of days a week in Las Vegas. 379 00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:21.559 He flies there in his private plane because he is 380 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:25.000 establishing residency for tax purposes. He's saving half a million 381 00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:27.720 dollars a year doing this. Now, while he is away 382 00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:30.519 in Las Vegas, she's at the gym, you know, supposedly 383 00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:34.000 staying in shape. She is not taking her big diamond 384 00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:37.279 engagement ring with her to the gym. She is going 385 00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:41.240 to the gym posing as a young, hot, single athletic 386 00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:44.319 woman on the prowl. And she is meeting and dating 387 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:46.839 men left and right and sleeping with them, in fact, 388 00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:50.079 sleeping with them in Bill McLoughlin's house while he is 389 00:21:50.119 --> 00:21:54.640 in Las Vegas, which takes so much hutsbah, I can't 390 00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:57.480 even tell you. 391 00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:58.759 Now, why would she do that? If did she? 392 00:21:59.279 --> 00:21:59.480 Did? 393 00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:02.160 She? Did you? What is the motivation you believe at 394 00:22:02.200 --> 00:22:08.480 that time? Did she not? Did she not understand what 395 00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:11.119 the ramifications could be if she were caught? Or was 396 00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:15.200 it more of a sexual drive? What would you attribute 397 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:15.400 it to? 398 00:22:16.039 --> 00:22:18.559 I'm not really sure. To be honest, I'm not sure. 399 00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:21.559 I want to assume anything. I can speculate. I think 400 00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:25.200 she was very sexually driven. I do know that I 401 00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:28.759