WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:00.800 Welcome to the show. 2 00:00:00.800 --> 00:00:03.120 We had a little bit of technical difficulties, but here 3 00:00:03.120 --> 00:00:03.439 we are. 4 00:00:03.480 --> 00:00:06.200 We made it and all's well that ends well. 5 00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:09.439 I'm currently in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, and this is the 6 00:00:09.439 --> 00:00:12.199 home of the Betty and Barney Hill Fame where they lived. 7 00:00:12.560 --> 00:00:16.440 The historical societies running and exhibit has been all summer 8 00:00:16.440 --> 00:00:19.280 long of the Betty and Barney Hill case right in 9 00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:23.000 downtown Portsmouth. So tonight we are joined by former senior 10 00:00:23.079 --> 00:00:28.239 NASA official and space policy expert Mike Gold, along with 11 00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:31.960 my special co host astronomer markt' antonio. We'll be talking 12 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:36.320 about how NASA has handled unidentified anomalous phenomena and the 13 00:00:36.439 --> 00:00:40.039 powerful stigma that has kept the subject from being seriously 14 00:00:40.119 --> 00:00:44.640 investigated by the scientific community for decades. I've talked about 15 00:00:44.640 --> 00:00:49.200 this many times in past shows, and before twenty seventeen, 16 00:00:49.320 --> 00:00:52.640 it was hard to get any scientists to basically talk 17 00:00:52.679 --> 00:00:54.159 about the subject for. 18 00:00:53.960 --> 00:00:56.439 So many reasons, but mostly the stigma. 19 00:00:56.880 --> 00:01:01.240 Mike served on NASA's UAP Independent Study Team, but as 20 00:01:01.240 --> 00:01:04.920 he'll explain, the panel was never actually tasked with examining 21 00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:10.760 NASA's historic UAP evidence. Please visit our website podcast UFO 22 00:01:10.879 --> 00:01:13.640 to support the show. For only two dollars or more 23 00:01:13.719 --> 00:01:16.640 a month, you can enjoy an ad free audio podcast 24 00:01:16.719 --> 00:01:19.840 listening experience, and while you're there, be sure to explore 25 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:24.239 hundreds of fascinating historical UFO blogs written by Charles Lear 26 00:01:24.359 --> 00:01:28.920 covering remarkable cases a lot of forgotten historic ones as well. 27 00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:32.719 Our blog this week by Charles is a policeman hit 28 00:01:32.840 --> 00:01:36.000 by one of those UFOs and that was a nineteen 29 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:39.239 seventy five case in Wisconsin. And I've read a few 30 00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:42.599 of these blogs on this YouTube channel here people seem 31 00:01:42.719 --> 00:01:46.760 to like them. So next Tuesday, I have Luigi Venatelli 32 00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:50.239 and we're going to have a SOFF debate. I'm chuckling 33 00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:53.359 at that on Bob Bzar. A lot of my longtime 34 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:56.879 listeners know how I feel about that, so don't forget. 35 00:01:56.879 --> 00:01:59.519 At nine pm right here on this channel, we'll be 36 00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:02.680 in our second live show for the evening, and that 37 00:02:02.840 --> 00:02:05.879 is with former NASA engineer Greg Martins. 38 00:02:06.359 --> 00:02:12.840 So let's get started and bring you both in. Hi, Mike, 39 00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:13.680 welcome to the show. 40 00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:16.719 Thank you for having me. And I've been in the 41 00:02:16.719 --> 00:02:19.360 space world my entire life. The hardest part of it 42 00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:23.319 is getting these streaming virtual meetings towards glad. 43 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:25.120 We did. 44 00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:27.039 We made it happen, and I'm so glad to get 45 00:02:27.039 --> 00:02:29.599 that we figured things out, and it seems to happen 46 00:02:29.759 --> 00:02:32.439 a lot when it's live and it's pre recorded, always 47 00:02:32.479 --> 00:02:35.120 goes fine. But thank you so much for being here, 48 00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:38.280 and Mark and I will be asking questions tonight. But 49 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:41.199 the first thing that I really wanted to ask you 50 00:02:41.319 --> 00:02:45.360 is you served on NASA's UAP Independent Study Team and 51 00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:48.439 what did you personally hope the team would investigate when 52 00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:49.800 you first joined it. 53 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:53.840 So I think what I hope first of all with 54 00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:58.199 the UAP Independent Study Team was that just this existence 55 00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:03.240 would push back against the stigma. As you mentioned, there's 56 00:03:03.759 --> 00:03:07.560 really no arena, I think where the UAP stigma is 57 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:13.360 stronger than in academia and NASA the meatball the agency. 58 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:17.800 It carries so much credibility with it, and just the 59 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:21.599 fact that there even was a nasty UAP Independence thirteen 60 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:24.879 I think was so important. I give the agency and 61 00:03:24.919 --> 00:03:28.520 then Senator Nelson, who was the NASA administrator at the time, 62 00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:31.479 a great deal of credit for moving forward because I 63 00:03:31.479 --> 00:03:34.120 can assure you that due to the stigma, there were 64 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:37.759 many I'm sure in the agency and outside advising Senator 65 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:41.599 Nelson not to do this, not to get involved. So 66 00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:46.599 I hope that NASA justify getting into the topic, that 67 00:03:46.919 --> 00:03:51.560 it would help legitimize and ensure that we took the 68 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:56.319 issue and data seriously. And I think there are some 69 00:03:56.439 --> 00:03:59.560 misperceptions relative to what the group was going to do 70 00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:03.759 and what it remit was and specifically we were never 71 00:04:04.120 --> 00:04:09.439 asked to look at data or review data. Instead, there 72 00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:14.639 was essentially two purposes, one for the UAP and Penn 73 00:04:14.719 --> 00:04:18.720 study teams men whether or not it was worthwhile for 74 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:26.079 NASA to study UAP, and if so, what capabilities systems 75 00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:30.000 does NASA have that could be applied to the topic. 76 00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:35.279 So it wasn't so much about reviewing data, It was 77 00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:39.879 about should the topic be investigated by NASA and how 78 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:41.519 should they investigate the topic. 79 00:04:42.519 --> 00:04:44.759 Now, one thing I was a little surprised of at 80 00:04:44.759 --> 00:04:50.399 first is that was I think I heard a number 81 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:54.240 kicked out about one hundred thousand dollars start with this. 82 00:04:54.680 --> 00:04:58.120 To me, that just sounded so little money compared to 83 00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:01.480 all the money spent on so many other things. I 84 00:05:01.519 --> 00:05:04.160 was glad that was happening, but it just seemed like 85 00:05:04.279 --> 00:05:07.199 with such a slow amount of money, you couldn't do 86 00:05:07.279 --> 00:05:09.399 a whole lot, So what's your thoughts on that. 87 00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:13.000 I don't think there was ever any funding levels dedicated 88 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:17.879 to UAP within the agency. There may have been some 89 00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:22.480 minor funds provided for the UAP Independent Study team, but 90 00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:25.600 that only would have been to cover travel, and I 91 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:29.160 think we got some sort of nominal per diem as 92 00:05:29.399 --> 00:05:33.399 members of the team. Again, the idea was for the 93 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:36.720 independent study team to recommend what should be done and 94 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:40.360 as part of that what the costs may be. Unfortunately, 95 00:05:40.439 --> 00:05:44.279 coming out of it, there never was really any funding 96 00:05:44.439 --> 00:05:49.879 dedicated to UAP study without any people or offices or budget, 97 00:05:49.920 --> 00:05:54.639 there wasn't much coming out of that. There was a 98 00:05:54.759 --> 00:06:00.240 research director for UAP that was appointed after or the 99 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:04.120 independent study team, but I believe even that individual was 100 00:06:04.160 --> 00:06:08.040 reassigned after time. I can say what the UAP and 101 00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:10.439 Penn study team did that I thought was very helpful 102 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:14.639 was again a its existence, pushed back against the stigma, 103 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:18.680 and b it was a positive recommendation from the team 104 00:06:18.680 --> 00:06:22.600 that NASA should look into the topic, and in particular 105 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:27.040 that the agency should leverage artificial intelligence and machine learning 106 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:30.000 to review the NASA archives to be able to find 107 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:32.720 out what we can. As we've seen from some of 108 00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:37.120 the Department of War releases. There's some fascinating imagery coming 109 00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:39.399 out of the agency, and if we did a more 110 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:43.319 comprehensive church, I think we could find quite a bit, 111 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:45.920 or at very least it would be worth the effort. 112 00:06:46.759 --> 00:06:49.920 The second recommendation that was made by the UAP Independent 113 00:06:49.959 --> 00:06:54.759 Study Team was to add UAP to the ASRS system, 114 00:06:54.839 --> 00:06:59.279 the Aviation Safety Reporting System, and this is a system 115 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:04.639 that NASA's and operating for decades to collect information confidentially 116 00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:08.920 on safety anomallies and then report those to the FAA. 117 00:07:08.959 --> 00:07:12.959 It's a great arms length way for pilots to report 118 00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:16.920 the safety anomilies, which of course can be challenging if 119 00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:20.240 you didn't have this degree of confidentiality, and hundreds of 120 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:23.879 thousands of cases have been reported by this system. If 121 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:29.720 we were to include UAP in ASRS, every pilot, crew members, 122 00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:35.560 even passengers could become sensors could become part of reporting UAP, 123 00:07:36.439 --> 00:07:40.199 leading to a treasure trove of additional data that could 124 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:44.519 be gathered at very little additional costs. So going through 125 00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:47.839 the NASA archives with AI and mL I think would 126 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:53.120 be invaluable and adding UAP to the ASRS system would 127 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:56.120 allow us to get a lot more data with very 128 00:07:56.160 --> 00:07:58.160 little cost to the American taxpayer. 129 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:03.399 I want to say I was there during this testimony. 130 00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:06.839 You're the one that actually started. I believe you were 131 00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:09.240 first in line, and you can see a little arrow. 132 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:12.600 There's me standing behind you, well with my phone trying. 133 00:08:12.439 --> 00:08:14.199 To you without the arrow. 134 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:16.800 Yeah. 135 00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:20.920 Yeah, So but anyway, that was my second set, the 136 00:08:20.920 --> 00:08:23.279 one with David Rush was there and that was that 137 00:08:23.439 --> 00:08:26.879 felt really historical that day. That was really such an 138 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:28.879 incredible experience, I thought. 139 00:08:29.480 --> 00:08:31.720 But anyway, I was glad that you were there. 140 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:34.519 I remember listening to but when I saw that you 141 00:08:34.559 --> 00:08:36.799 were part of this, I thought it was really a 142 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:39.399 great thing that there was some representation. 143 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:41.960 Mark. Do you have anything you want to lead off 144 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:43.080 with any questions or anything. 145 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:46.480 I was just gonna mention, by the way, I Mike, 146 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:50.320 nice to finally meet you. I was thinking about all 147 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:53.519 of this and my mind is going one thousand miles 148 00:08:53.559 --> 00:08:56.120 an hour, unfortunately, so I have to pair it back. 149 00:08:56.240 --> 00:08:58.840 Because Mike got this wealth of information that we can 150 00:08:58.879 --> 00:09:01.919 all benefit from. I was trying to I don't want 151 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:03.679 to jump ahead on anymoreton, but I was trying to 152 00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:07.320 figure out there's a few things. Okay. First of all, 153 00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:10.279 I've been involved in projects that I've worked for the 154 00:09:10.360 --> 00:09:13.759 Navy for decades and privately with my business, and I 155 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:16.879 worked on projects that could be mistaken for UFOs, for 156 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:22.519 instance UAP, and they were I received as MUFON's mutual 157 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:25.720 Uphone Networks chief photo video analysts to run photo analysis teams, 158 00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:31.360 two photo analysis teams, one overseas one here. And I 159 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:35.159 got photos of this thing flying around in the skies 160 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:38.360 that they said, look, it's a UFO. I knew it 161 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:41.519 wasn't because I was working on it. So now I'm like, oh, no, 162 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:43.759 I know what this is like because I'm building these 163 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:47.200 engineering models for the Navy guys, but I'm also this 164 00:09:47.320 --> 00:09:50.360 photo video guy. Which side the way I pick? I 165 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:53.559 picked the photo video guy, and I decided to press 166 00:09:53.759 --> 00:09:58.159 the program office for an explanation, and they said, if 167 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:01.000 they think it's the UFO, that's great, and I was like, no, 168 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:04.080 it's not. You're going to muddy the waters. And unfortunately, 169 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:06.840 as we've said and seen, a lot of the trans 170 00:10:07.080 --> 00:10:13.039 materials that were released were not EUAP. They were ordinary 171 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:16.720 objects captured in an extraordinary way. But they were also 172 00:10:17.679 --> 00:10:20.919 captured and that's what made them classified. They were captured 173 00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:24.159 with technology they didn't want you to know about, and 174 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:26.120 that's why they were classified. They ended up in that 175 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:29.039 bucket because of the technology used to capture the images, 176 00:10:29.159 --> 00:10:32.240 not the image of the object itself. When I pressed 177 00:10:32.279 --> 00:10:35.600 the Home Office on this down in DC, I managed 178 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:37.120 to get an email out of them and said, yeah, 179 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:39.720 this is one of our special projects, and that's as 180 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:42.200 far as they would go. But they liked the idea 181 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:44.120 of it being mistaken for UFO. And then I said, 182 00:10:44.200 --> 00:10:46.080 you know what's going to happen, and people are going 183 00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:47.720 to come out of woodwork now I want to take 184 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:50.480 pictures of this thing and someone's going to get pictures 185 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:52.679 of it doing something you probably don't want them to see. 186 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:55.519 If you give me an explanation that something can distribute, 187 00:10:55.720 --> 00:10:58.120 they'll probably all go home. And they did. They all 188 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:00.000 went home. They were they said, oh, it's one of ours, 189 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:04.360 is never mind? Okay. So muddying the waters is one 190 00:11:04.360 --> 00:11:08.799 of my big problems with the whole UAP process. People 191 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:11.559 will send in things that they and a lot of 192 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:17.759 military stuff comes in that is ordinary, but they try 193 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:20.320 to make more on of it. So I want to 194 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:22.759 know where you fall on that that's a sort of 195 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:25.559 a convoluted question, isn't it there, Mike, I'm sorry about that. 196 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:29.440 Sorry, I'm a recovering attorney. I'm used to I. 197 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:31.279 Love that, attorney. 198 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:33.519 I've heard you say that with Ross. Yeah, that was great. 199 00:11:33.639 --> 00:11:37.720 Yea, yeah yeah. 200 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:40.080 Let me talk a little bit about national security, because 201 00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:43.000 that's an important point phrase and I think is critical 202 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:47.840 aspect of the entire UAP phenomena. And forgive me if 203 00:11:47.879 --> 00:11:51.480 I repeat some of what I said after testimony or previously, 204 00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:55.600 but I think it bears revisiting. So if you look 205 00:11:55.639 --> 00:11:58.639 at what's happening in Ukraine right now and the war 206 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:05.320 against Russia, Ukraine had thousands of drones that were hidden 207 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:11.600 in sea containers, in trucks, in homes, in huts, and 208 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:16.799 they then released those drones to cause literally billions of 209 00:12:16.840 --> 00:12:20.440 dollars of damage to the Russian Air Force and other 210 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:26.720 Russian military facilities. And while I don't know for certain, 211 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:32.399 I would be shocked if China didn't have similar drones 212 00:12:32.679 --> 00:12:38.000 hidden away near national security, critical infrastructure facilities here in 213 00:12:38.039 --> 00:12:45.679 the United States. And I suspect that many of the 214 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:52.360 UAP sightings that we have are potentially adversary craft that 215 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:58.759 are scoping out military facilities, military installations, critical infrastructure to 216 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:02.320 support just such an attack when and if we get 217 00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:06.840 in a shooting war with China. And that's why, in 218 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:11.720 part I'm so concerned with the stigma. That stigma not 219 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:15.960 only prevents us from scientific study of maybe the more 220 00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:20.559 extraordinary aspects of UAP, but it also provides a cover 221 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:25.399 in many ways for what you're saying, for adversarial aircraft 222 00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:29.440 and drones that are monitoring our facilities preparing for a 223 00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:33.799 drone strike. So I think it's very important that we 224 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:38.799 take UAP seriously, not only for the potential that something 225 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:42.639 extraordinary could be occurring, but so we don't provide a 226 00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:47.480 loophole or a cover for many and much of which 227 00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:53.000 I believe are likely adversarial drone technology on our chores. 228 00:13:53.440 --> 00:13:59.240 So that's one important aspect of this, and I would 229 00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:04.559 hate to see our adversaries exploiting the stigma of UAP 230 00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:09.639 to be able to get close to and eventually attack facilities. 231 00:14:09.639 --> 00:14:12.559 To best the claim, I agree. Okay, I add one 232 00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:16.080 more thing. Here in Connecticut where I live, the state 233 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:21.000 legislature was setting aside money's under a million dollars to 234 00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:25.279 study UAP, and I was tapped to be on that team. Unfortunately, 235 00:14:25.879 --> 00:14:28.320 the state decided that money can be better spent elsewhere. 236 00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:32.080 So the point is they're not taking it seriously. I 237 00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:34.440 don't know what that was about. I don't know why 238 00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:37.600 they didn't pursue it. If they eventually get the money, 239 00:14:37.639 --> 00:14:40.159 I'll probably be on the team. But the fact of 240 00:14:40.159 --> 00:14:42.679 the matter is, just like with you, you never got to 241 00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:47.279 actually study any UAP right or analyze any UAP. I 242 00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:48.360 don't know what we would get. 243 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:51.919 Never say never, that's true. Actually, I'm just goingting to 244 00:14:51.960 --> 00:14:56.200 hear that news about Connecticut. I provided some written testimony 245 00:14:56.799 --> 00:15:01.679 in my role as an advisor to Disclosure Found, supporting 246 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:06.559 that work and hoping that they would move forward. And 247 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:11.000 while the EUAP Independent side Team and n ACID did 248 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:15.039 not necessarily get chance to review information again, still some 249 00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:18.879 very worthwhile outcomes of the independent study team relative to 250 00:15:18.919 --> 00:15:23.840 recommendations and pushing back against the stigma, generally under the 251 00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:29.519 auspices of the Disclosure Foundation, myself and another member of 252 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:31.720 the team, doctor Reggie Brothers, who was on the UAP 253 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:35.399 in Events study team with me, as well as not 254 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:39.039 only Derek Shawnee who you may be familiar with his 255 00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:44.000 work and Beatrice Burial. And let me apologize profusely to 256 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:46.960 my friends if I'm mispronouncing anyone's names, as I sure 257 00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:48.919 I am, and you can call me Nick Gould or 258 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:54.639 something in return. But we've got a terrific team put 259 00:15:54.679 --> 00:15:59.480 together that is going to attempt, with our limited resources 260 00:15:59.799 --> 00:16:04.200 to implement the recommendations of the UAP Independent Study Team 261 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:09.039 and conduct a review of various aspects of NASA archives 262 00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:14.039 using AI, using mL and following up on much of 263 00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:18.320 the incredible work that Beatrice and Money have been doing, 264 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:23.039 as well as other aspects of the phenomena. And I 265 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:26.159 know that everyone's looking for a smoking gun, and we'd 266 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:30.200 all like to see some extraordinary proof. But I really 267 00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:33.960 do appreciate the release of information from NASA from the 268 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:39.440 Department of War highlighting some of the more interesting imagery 269 00:16:39.679 --> 00:16:43.080 that NASA and other agencies of the federal government have captured. 270 00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:48.679 There's a terrific image of what looks like a triangle 271 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.320 triangular craft, or at least lights in a triangular formation, 272 00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:57.279 taken from the surface of the Moon during Apollo seventeen. 273 00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:02.799 And as I mentioned, scientists, I'm a recovering attorney, I'm 274 00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:04.440 not qualified to say what it is or isn't, but 275 00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:07.720 I know that's something worth asking questions about. It's an 276 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:11.680 image worth delving into. And I've been talking about that 277 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:15.119 image as an example of why going through the NASA 278 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:19.000 archives is worthwhile for over a year and felt very 279 00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:23.279 validated when that image was highlighted by the Department of War. 280 00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:26.920 And I think the releases from the Department of War 281 00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:32.240 really help internally at agencies validate the topic, legitimize the topic, 282 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:34.559 and make it easier for those who want to do 283 00:17:34.680 --> 00:17:37.799 reviews and put information forward because they see they have 284 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:40.960 the support and backing of the White House. So I 285 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:47.559 really appreciate what Jared Isaacman and Pete Hegseth and are 286 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:50.559 brave and courageous members of Congress, and the UAP Caucus 287 00:17:50.559 --> 00:17:56.799 of Congressman Burlison Burshett Luna are doing to get information released. 288 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:01.319 I know we all want more, but I think it's 289 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:06.240 phenomenal the progress that we have made. And while I 290 00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:10.480 can't do much relative to information that's classified, that process 291 00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:13.480 is currently ongoing within the Department of War in the 292 00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:16.119 White House try and get out as much as they can. 293 00:18:16.880 --> 00:18:20.599 What I can do in my personal capacity through Disclosure Foundation, 294 00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:25.759 with my colleagues is go through what's publicly available, and 295 00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:28.720 as you've seen from what's been released by the Department 296 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:31.119 of War and the work that Monoly has done, and 297 00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:35.319 some of your listeners and viewers aren't familiar, he's produced 298 00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:39.240 some really interesting imagery from the surface of the Moon, 299 00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:44.559 from the surface of Mars, from Phobos of i'd say 300 00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:51.279 anomalous surface artifacts. And again not qualified to say someone 301 00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:55.880 that's extraordinary or not, or if there's prosaic explanations, but 302 00:18:56.119 --> 00:19:00.559 definitely some interesting imagery that bears further studies. So our 303 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:05.240 group is hoping to apply AI and mL review those archives, 304 00:19:05.319 --> 00:19:09.920 and I guarantee they will be a treasure trove of information. 305 00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:13.039 And even if we don't discover anything extraordinary, what's the 306 00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:17.240 worst that happens that we discover some fascinating new natural 307 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:20.880 phenomena relative to the Moon of Mar. Anomalies is how 308 00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:24.880 we make progress. Anomalies is how we learn. It's the inexplicable, 309 00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:28.240 it's the strange that creates progress, and that's why I 310 00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:30.480 think it's such a worthy endeavor to investigate. 311 00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:32.559 Yeah, very good points there. 312 00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:36.079 I will be asking Christopher as in chat has a question. 313 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:38.880 Thank you all for being here in chat prior to that, 314 00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:42.039 I just want to ask this question because I've heard, 315 00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:45.920 I've watched things and heard things many things over the 316 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:50.960 years about how imagery has been either altered. This is 317 00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:52.880 a NASSA for many years, it was a woman that 318 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:55.119 said she worked there and walked in and saw people 319 00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:58.680 working on these images to get these anomalies off of 320 00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:01.160 them before they were really And I want to know 321 00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:04.319 what your answer is to those questions I've heard all 322 00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:05.440 for years and years. 323 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:09.880 Sure, it's the interest the full disclosure. My grandfather worked 324 00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:13.240 on the Apollo program. My brother is still a STEM 325 00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:18.880 contractor for NASA helping support education. So I have NASA 326 00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:20.440 in my Genes show. 327 00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:22.559 And we can say we went to the moon, because 328 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:24.880 I hate when people say we never went to the moon. 329 00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:30.039 That is such an insult is all of the great Americans, 330 00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:34.759 and then globally everyone who supported the Artemis program. To 331 00:20:34.839 --> 00:20:37.359 not believe that is to not believe in our nation, 332 00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:40.200 to not believe in its people. And I find that 333 00:20:40.279 --> 00:20:44.000 insulting to myself and the generations of people who risked it, 334 00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:45.960 in some cases lost their lives. 335 00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:49.559 That's right, accomplish there's some white and chaffee and it's just. 336 00:20:49.880 --> 00:20:52.920 Absolutely at Redwires. Matter of fact, we just opened up 337 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:57.000 a new microgravity facility in Georgetown, Indiana, and we were 338 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:01.240 honored to have Steve Grissom join us to Gus GRISSM 339 00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:03.519 and it was wonderful to carry forward that legacy of 340 00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:06.440 Chris Kersson, who paid the ultimate price to get us 341 00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:11.119 to the move. Why find those conspiracy theories so vaulting 342 00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:17.079 in relative to NASA in these accusations of airbrut Obviously 343 00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:19.519 I would be very disappointed if that's the case. We've 344 00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:23.920 also heard rumors of shutting off live feeds, whether that's 345 00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:28.119 from the Subtle or the International to cover things up. 346 00:21:28.279 --> 00:21:32.119 And again, I want to practice what I preach. That 347 00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:36.079 part of my criticism of academic early some academics in 348 00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:39.799 some cases UAP is they begin from a conclusion and 349 00:21:39.799 --> 00:21:43.200 then work backwards. I think it's so important to remain 350 00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:47.359 objective and begin from a place of modesty that we 351 00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:50.839 don't know the answer to a question, investigate, and then 352 00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:54.359 follow the data wherever it may lead. So when it 353 00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:56.920 comes to these accusations, of course, I hope that no 354 00:21:56.960 --> 00:21:59.119 one would ever do that at NASA, And during my 355 00:21:59.240 --> 00:22:02.799 tenure at NASA, I never saw anything that would indicate 356 00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:06.440 that or anyone who would do something like that. But 357 00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:08.880 then again, I don't know what was happening in the 358 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:12.559 nineteen sixties. I don't know what was happening in the seventies, 359 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:15.759 and even when I'm there, I'm not omniscient relative to 360 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:19.240 what's happening. So part of our effort will be to 361 00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:24.000 look at accusations like that. And for example, in Money's work, 362 00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:28.680 there are some examples where we'll see an artifact in 363 00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:30.839 one version of the data, but then not in another. 364 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:34.400 Now that can be differences in cameras, differences in recording, 365 00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:39.039 maybe not, and then looking at the imagery. If anyone's 366 00:22:39.079 --> 00:22:41.920 got examples where they think something's been airbrushed or to 367 00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:44.319 have been changes, let me just say that we're very 368 00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:48.759 open to looking at the information and if this is true, 369 00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:51.680 show us, show us the evidence. We're happy to take 370 00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:55.319 a look and try to get to the bottom of 371 00:22:55.880 --> 00:22:59.240 some of what I hope are misperceptions relative to what 372 00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:02.400 may have occurred in the past. But NASA's very mission 373 00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:06.279 is to go out and discover new life, to seek 374 00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:10.200 exactly so I'd be very disappointed if any of that 375 00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:13.079 was occurring. But again we want to take a look 376 00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:15.400 at the evidence and follow it wherever it may lead. 377 00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:18.720 That makes sense to me. I want to add to 378 00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:21.119 that if I could year for what I do. I've 379 00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:23.759 looked at hundreds and hundreds of Mars images one hundreds 380 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:27.200 and hundreds of Moon images, and as a chief photo analyst, 381 00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:30.519 I've seen a lot of things and artifacts on the 382 00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:33.920 Moon on Mars that people make these claims about, and 383 00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:36.359 I look at them from I'm gonna let the science 384 00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:38.839 speak first, and if the science can decipher it. I 385 00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:42.359 put that out there of very thick skin. And there's 386 00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:44.200 a lot of people that get mad at me when 387 00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:49.279 I won't admit there was a big nuclear war on Mars. Okay, okay, yeah, 388 00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:50.839 and but I think it's. 389 00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:54.000 Important to have in your nuclear denial exactly. 390 00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:56.759 That's right. There's a one particular guy out there that 391 00:23:56.839 --> 00:23:59.960 I just love arguing with him about it. You do it, 392 00:24:00.759 --> 00:24:02.960 might me know them too, but it's okay. The bottom 393 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:06.640 line is I understand how things work on other planets. 394 00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:10.440 I understand geology on other planets. That's been my Bailey 395 00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:13.200 Wickers and astronomer. I lived in the Earth science and 396 00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:16.960 the Moon science and the Marts science for a long time, decades. 397 00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:21.319 So I really think it's important to allow the science 398 00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:23.960 to speak and allow the people that know the science 399 00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:27.160 to at least register their opinions before you start to 400 00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:31.039 dismiss them. And people dismiss us all the time. But 401 00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:34.480