WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:04.719 Oh yeah, it's that time again, always time to make 2 00:00:04.759 --> 00:00:07.719 that change. I am Nina Turner here with the wonderful, 3 00:00:07.759 --> 00:00:11.960 incredible doctor Cornell West. You are listening to Truth Time, Doc. 4 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:14.160 We're gonna explore some things today. So we know that 5 00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:17.519 the Trump administration is pushing to try to really erase 6 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:20.559 the history of black people in this country and by extension, 7 00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:25.039 other marginalized folks. But this may be proven difficult for 8 00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:27.920 him to do. For every action, there's an equal and 9 00:00:27.920 --> 00:00:30.000 opposite reaction, and there are a lot of folks on 10 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:32.840 the community side and also on the academic side or 11 00:00:32.920 --> 00:00:36.280 doing things differently, maybe not directly through their institutions, but 12 00:00:36.399 --> 00:00:40.119 in communities. And that is really how black folks actually 13 00:00:40.719 --> 00:00:47.320 learned from one another and lifted our respective history. Black artists, 14 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:52.399 black educators, black leaders, black activists, black people are finding 15 00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:55.039 ways to learn more about our history and in some 16 00:00:55.079 --> 00:00:58.439 ways what they meant for evil may actually turn out 17 00:00:58.479 --> 00:01:02.479 for good. And then why the gala celebration for black 18 00:01:02.840 --> 00:01:07.879 dandyism matters? For this moment, our style, our swag always matters. 19 00:01:08.120 --> 00:01:11.680 We are the most emulated people on the face of 20 00:01:11.719 --> 00:01:14.599 the planet. Before we get to those topics and many more, 21 00:01:15.079 --> 00:01:17.879 the doctor is in the house, doctor Wes. What is 22 00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:20.760 on your heart, your soul and your mind. 23 00:01:21.239 --> 00:01:23.359 My dear sister, I'm full of joy. Anytime I'm in 24 00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:27.920 conversation with you, you're gonna talk about black style and dandyism, 25 00:01:28.040 --> 00:01:31.480 and yes, we're gonna talk about how it is I 26 00:01:32.840 --> 00:01:38.400 erase Black history. There have been efforts for four hundred 27 00:01:38.480 --> 00:01:43.319 years to do that, and every effort has failed. And 28 00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:46.319 one of the reasons why it has failed is because 29 00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:52.280 we are living history. You can't wipe out living history. 30 00:01:52.359 --> 00:01:54.719 History is not in a book. History is not in 31 00:01:54.799 --> 00:01:59.959 a library or museum. History is when you see jamar 32 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:03.879 All walking with style, and Letitia's smiling and you see 33 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:07.959 a sparkle in her face, singing a song, writing a poem, 34 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:15.719 or herself loving her children. That's what history is. And 35 00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:18.800 so let us first call in the question this claim 36 00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:25.080 about omnipotencey somehow people have the power to erase history. No, 37 00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:29.479 not at all. But at the same time, it means 38 00:02:29.479 --> 00:02:32.319 that we need a spiritual awakening and a more renaissance 39 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:34.639 so that we live our history in such a way 40 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:38.719 that people will know it can never be erased. And 41 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:44.000 what is spiritual reckoning awakening? What is moral renaissance. It 42 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:49.759 is an explosion of self love, self respect, self regard. 43 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:55.800 It is an explosion of self determination and self defense. 44 00:02:55.919 --> 00:03:01.919 It is an explosion of grace and ignity being enacted 45 00:03:02.039 --> 00:03:11.240 and in body in the black world every day, every moment. 46 00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:14.800 And so anytime I hear this talk about, well, they 47 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:17.879 banned another book, God ain't banned the book. But they 48 00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:23.039 ain't banned our energy. They haven't banned our fire. They 49 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:28.400 haven't banned our determination. They haven't banned our vision, they 50 00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:32.199 haven't banned our love of our now. If we our 51 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:38.639 sells no longer a living history grounded in the best 52 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:41.479 of our visions, the best of our efforts and self determination, 53 00:03:41.960 --> 00:03:45.639 then we can end up consenting to the waning of 54 00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:47.960 a black history. You can have a lot of Black 55 00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:51.039 folk around but have no connection to the best of 56 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:53.800 their history, and they end up being spiritual zombies, just 57 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:58.000 fitting in and assimilated and amalgamated into a white mainstream, such 58 00:03:58.039 --> 00:04:01.479 that Martin Luther King Jr. And Fentny Neuhama and Nina 59 00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:06.800 Simone and others are far God can completely overlooked. That's 60 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:09.719 the kind of focus we need to have in terms 61 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:17.040 of a spiritual awakening, moral renaissance with political courage to 62 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:22.319 tell the truth not of white supremacy, but about predator 63 00:04:22.519 --> 00:04:24.600 capitalist processes. 64 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:33.279 With oh, I'm with it. Spiritual awakening, moral renaissance coupled 65 00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:35.439 with political courage, and you're right. 66 00:04:35.480 --> 00:04:35.560 You know. 67 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:38.480 Fred Hampton said something to the effect you could try 68 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:41.920 to kill the revolutionary, but you can never kill the revolution. 69 00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:45.279 And that's pretty much what you're saying. Unless we give 70 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:48.800 up and give in and give out, that's when it's over. 71 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:51.839 But just having some leader that wants to be an 72 00:04:51.879 --> 00:04:56.560 authoritarian to try to dictate what's taught formally, that ain't 73 00:04:56.560 --> 00:04:57.199 gonna change it. 74 00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:03.079 That's exactly right, that's exactly right. And let us be honest. 75 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:05.519 I mean, they talk about banning these books, and they wrong, 76 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:07.600 and we got to fight it. But then we got 77 00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:09.680 to raise the question, you know, when's the last time 78 00:05:09.759 --> 00:05:12.680 we took our children to the library and read them 79 00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:19.199 a book. When's the last time we've immersed ourselves in books. 80 00:05:20.279 --> 00:05:24.279 We ourselves have to be enactments of the history. We're 81 00:05:24.319 --> 00:05:27.920 not spectators of something in the past. That's not what 82 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:33.680 history is. History is lived in the present, and the 83 00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:38.040 pastness of the present makes the present what it is, 84 00:05:38.480 --> 00:05:41.319 and there is no future unless the best of our 85 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:45.560 history is inside of us in the present to authorize 86 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:53.240 a better future. That's yeah, time, all past, present and future. 87 00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:57.319 We always live, especially us as a people based on 88 00:05:57.360 --> 00:05:59.920 the past, the president in the future. You cannot uncop 89 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:02.480 for any of those. They're all connected like that. That 90 00:06:02.560 --> 00:06:06.160 quilt is there, all them pieces coming together and the 91 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:09.439 enactment of history that in some ways when I said, 92 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:11.680 what they meant for evil is gonna turn off for good. 93 00:06:12.199 --> 00:06:15.040 Black people are more in tuned now, and maybe we 94 00:06:15.120 --> 00:06:18.399 will start to do collectively and communally the things that 95 00:06:18.439 --> 00:06:21.639 we should have always done, which is to never lose 96 00:06:21.959 --> 00:06:25.920 our connection to the past, the present, and the future, 97 00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:28.279 to begin to be the teachers and the you know, 98 00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:30.920 the griots in our own community and not waiting for 99 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:35.920 somebody to do it formally in a classroom. That part 100 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:38.959 right there. Listen when we come forward, doctor West, and 101 00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:41.600 I are going to continue. You're listening to truth time 102 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:44.600 you because you can't be true to anybody else unless 103 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:48.439 you're true to you first. That spiritual awakening, that moral 104 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:53.240 renaissance wrapped in political courage. Do you think the fact 105 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:59.319 that the Trump administration is going so hard centering an 106 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:01.800 anti black sament. I mean, there's no doubt about that 107 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:05.040 as they try to roll the teaching of black history, 108 00:07:05.079 --> 00:07:09.600 the true teaching of America's history, that other marginalized communities 109 00:07:09.639 --> 00:07:12.240 are getting swept up in that there's a loss of 110 00:07:12.279 --> 00:07:15.160 a sense of the good, the bad, and the ugly. 111 00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:20.439 But on the other side of that, the positive nature 112 00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:23.519 in this pain point that there's in other words, there's 113 00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:27.439 promise in this problem. And it is a problem to 114 00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:29.839 try to rewrite history. 115 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:33.560 Oh, and you're making a powerful point. It may be 116 00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:36.639 that the vicious attack on us and our history will 117 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:40.639 lead us to wake up more quickly and therefore to 118 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:46.680 intensify our own And it's interesting you think about woke 119 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:49.079 and all these attacks on woke. You know, you want 120 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:53.639 to say the folk, so are you in defense of sleepwalking? 121 00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:55.279 How when you say that? 122 00:07:55.800 --> 00:08:00.199 Nil? Are you this in defense of the Austrich keeping 123 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:03.000 his or her head in the sand? Is that? Is? That? 124 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:05.560 Is that what people mean when they attack woke. Now 125 00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:08.959 we can understand that they may be critical of certain 126 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:14.519 practices associated with WOKE because if if you know, you 127 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:20.040 don't want to be you know, mistreating folk and so forth. No, 128 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:23.199 that's wrong, there's no doubt about that. But if it's 129 00:08:23.240 --> 00:08:25.639 a matter of the question for truth and people have 130 00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:29.000 no interest in the truth, therefore their anti woke and 131 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:32.559 their anti truth. Oh wait a minute. When Martin King 132 00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:34.480 and the others talk about it's time to wake up, 133 00:08:34.559 --> 00:08:37.360 they were saying, it's time to acknowledge your living in 134 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:41.399 a racist society that's been lynching and degrading and enslaving 135 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:44.200 black people for two hundred and some years. And if 136 00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:46.799 you don't wake up, you're gonna lose your society. That's 137 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:50.279 what Martin was saying. So, folks know, I can't stand 138 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:52.360 being woke. I want to go back to sleep. So 139 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:54.919 you want to go back to the denial. Oh so 140 00:08:55.279 --> 00:08:58.480 what are we talking about. Let's be very clear in 141 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:02.159 this regard, and I think that we have to continually 142 00:09:02.200 --> 00:09:05.480 say that over and over and over again. 143 00:09:06.279 --> 00:09:09.840 And that you're making many critical points. The main one 144 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:12.879 are you in defense of sleepwalking? So because you're right, 145 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:17.559 just very simply, what is the opposite not being woke 146 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:22.919 is being sleep absolutely On the other hand, you know, 147 00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:27.399 just reminding our audience how the terminology of being woke 148 00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:33.360 was co opted by neo liberals, bastardized by them, because 149 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:36.639 that is not originally for the Black vernacular, for the 150 00:09:36.759 --> 00:09:41.679 Black experience. Woke mint, keep your head on a swivel, 151 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:45.720 woke miant, don't get caught asleep as you're laying out, 152 00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:48.559 because your very life might be in danger. But let 153 00:09:48.600 --> 00:09:50.320 me go in there and read it, you know, just 154 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:52.840 kind of how it's laid out here. Woke is an 155 00:09:52.840 --> 00:09:56.799 adjective derived from African American English you since the nineteen 156 00:09:56.840 --> 00:10:04.600 thirties or earlier, to to refer to awareness or racial 157 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:10.639 prejudice and discrimination, often in the construction stay woke. The 158 00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:14.840 term acquired political connotations by the nineteen seventies and gain 159 00:10:14.919 --> 00:10:19.360 further popularities in the two thousands. So for Black people, 160 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:23.480 woke has always meant you got to have a consciousness 161 00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:28.480 about your surroundings, to stay physically safe first and foremost, 162 00:10:29.240 --> 00:10:31.639 in a more broad sense, to be woke, to be 163 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:35.559 aware of where you are physically, mentally, and spiritually in 164 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:39.200 these United States of America. And it is unfortunate that 165 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:43.519 Neil liberals then used it to expand in other territories 166 00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:47.399 that it was never meant from the black vernacular standpoint, 167 00:10:47.679 --> 00:10:53.240 and thereby given an opening for these conservatives and these 168 00:10:53.279 --> 00:10:57.480 anti woke people by any any measure to co opt 169 00:10:57.519 --> 00:11:00.240 it and to use it in a negative way. Again, 170 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:04.759 Black folks being sacrificed on the altar once again at 171 00:11:04.759 --> 00:11:10.399 the hands of neoliberals and used by these conservative maga people. 172 00:11:10.919 --> 00:11:15.720 M No, no, you broke it down. You broke it down. 173 00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:20.200 That the woke emerged in the black context. That had 174 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:26.960 to do with shattering callousness, shattering indifference, and chattering cowardliness. 175 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:30.080 It had to do with unleashing us for truth. 176 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:35.159 That's right, that's right. And I gotta tell you, I 177 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:42.519 am I'm disturbed, you know, I'm really upset that it's 178 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:46.679 being used in this way and because people who did 179 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:50.320 not respect us on either side of this have found 180 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:52.840 a way to make this a negative term. It was 181 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:58.039 meant for black people to stay alive literally literally, mentally, physically, 182 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:01.240 and spiritually and all of a sudd and being woke, 183 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:04.879 even if you understand it in a more expansive way, 184 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:06.960 it is all of a sudden, all of a sudden, 185 00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:09.879 something bad. There's something disturbing about that. 186 00:12:10.960 --> 00:12:14.559 And of course even the right wing, though they find 187 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:19.720 themselves in a double buying because they say, okay that 188 00:12:19.879 --> 00:12:25.399 we're going to fight this wokeness, we're anti woke, which 189 00:12:25.399 --> 00:12:30.000 means the way they are saying, we need to be 190 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:34.519 woke about anti wokeness. So it's just another form of 191 00:12:34.600 --> 00:12:39.159 wokeness anyway. And the question then becomes, well if if, 192 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:42.480 if you're woke or anti woke, what are you woke about? 193 00:12:42.519 --> 00:12:44.960 And what are your anti woke about? 194 00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:46.080 That's it. 195 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:49.360 That becomes a question that sounds like a logical paradox, 196 00:12:49.480 --> 00:12:53.440 but it's just a matter of concrete reality. Either you 197 00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:59.120 acknowledge people suffering, you acknowledge their humanity, and you think 198 00:12:59.240 --> 00:13:02.320 something ought to be done about it, or you're in 199 00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:06.559 denial about it and you don't think anything should be done. 200 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:10.600 Whatever should be done, should be done fairly, should be 201 00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:15.200 done justly across the board, but something must. 202 00:13:15.080 --> 00:13:21.000 Be done, Something must be done, and something so beautiful 203 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:24.840 as being woke. You know, even if I put the 204 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:28.519 attachment to black culture and black consciousness in the parking 205 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:30.720 lot for just a minute, they ain't gonna stay there long. 206 00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:35.240 To your point, do you want to sleep walk? Another 207 00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:38.759 point to be made is what though inherently is wrong 208 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:40.759 with being woke? 209 00:13:40.840 --> 00:13:44.159 Though seriously, now I must admit, you know, when the 210 00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:48.360 younger generation talked about me being woke about fifteen years ago, 211 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:51.600 and I said, well, as an older brother, I'm not 212 00:13:51.639 --> 00:13:56.919 gonna suffer from insomnia, which means I ain't gonna take 213 00:13:56.960 --> 00:14:00.399 a nap. I'm gonna get me some sleep. I got 214 00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:06.600 to stay fortified. That's always been my slogan. Stay forty five, 215 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:10.360 I stay. Everybody need taking that and go sleep. Sometimes 216 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:14.799 folks stay woke for twenty five years. They not highly 217 00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:19.200 reliable comrades. They may sleep on you right in the 218 00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:21.679 middle of battle because you ain't got no they've been 219 00:14:21.759 --> 00:14:26.320 woke for too long. Get some sleep, mother, mother, shut 220 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:26.759 your mouth. 221 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:42.279 So so we need some highly fortified comrade in some senses. 222 00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:44.200 You know, even in the art world, which you always 223 00:14:44.200 --> 00:14:47.639 bring up music so beautifully. You know sister Rika Baidu, 224 00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:50.679 you know her track Master Teacher. You know feature the 225 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:55.440 words by Georgia and the Modre is wildly credited with 226 00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:59.519 reintroducing the whole notion of stay woke to the modern lexicon. 227 00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:03.600 We're making some major points here. Dot woke has always 228 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:07.240 or wokeness has always been a part of the consciousness 229 00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:10.679 of black people because we had to so whatever our 230 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:14.960 ancestors was calling it in the eighteenth century, the seventeenth century, 231 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:19.039 the sixteenth century. It was always some version of the 232 00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:23.159 notion of wokeness. But in terms of modern day they're saying, 233 00:15:23.200 --> 00:15:25.720 you know, the Legal Defense Fund put out that. Rikabaydu's 234 00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:30.799 her track from two thousand and eight Master Teacher is 235 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:36.679 widely credited with reintroducing stay woke to the modern lexicon. However, 236 00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:39.600 Watson believed it was by DU's use of the phrase 237 00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:44.120 on Twitter while advocating for the freedom of Russian feminist 238 00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:49.879 protesters that ultimately helped propel woke in a twenty first 239 00:15:49.879 --> 00:15:53.000 century way around the globe. 240 00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:56.799 No, that's real, and Eric Abadu, she's got the spirited 241 00:15:56.840 --> 00:16:00.720 Nina Simone in her and she recognizes that to stay 242 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:07.879 woke is to always be forty five, be for truth telling, 243 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:15.919 be ready for courageous witness, be ready for fighting and resisting. 244 00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:19.159 And when you are fighting, you got to not just 245 00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:25.879 be woke. You need powers of discernment that part ABSOLUTELYSS 246 00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:28.120 or not just matter woke. You need to get your 247 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:31.320 eyes together and you got to feel deeply. You got 248 00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:35.000 to get your heart together, and you got to fight sincerely. 249 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:38.159 You got to get your soul together so that you 250 00:16:38.200 --> 00:16:41.679 know woke is just that first step toward Efesian six 251 00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:45.759 and Ephesian six. Ain't just stay woke, it's put on 252 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:49.799 the whole arm. I see, Grandmama got it more right 253 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:54.759 than almost everybody I know. She go back to her Bible. 254 00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:57.559 I go back to my Bible to say, put on 255 00:16:57.720 --> 00:17:01.320 the whole arm. And I think Erica do would agreed, 256 00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:03.960 and of course I think Nina Simone would agreed too. 257 00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:08.960 Yeah, so that you are able to withstand the wives 258 00:17:09.039 --> 00:17:10.519 of the of the devil, of the enemy, of the 259 00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:13.880 of the of the spirits of opposite that want to 260 00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:16.079 take people down, I mean, that's it, Doc. And so now, 261 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:18.960 to some extent, not to some extent, we know that 262 00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:22.480 woke now is being used in a very negative accoonnotation. 263 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:26.480 They use it to stand in for diversity, equity inclusion, 264 00:17:26.599 --> 00:17:29.519 is used to stand in for Black Lives Matter, is 265 00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:32.559 used to stand in for critical race theory. You know, 266 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:35.359 you name it, and all of those things add up 267 00:17:35.640 --> 00:17:40.200 to one thing, anti black. 268 00:17:42.039 --> 00:17:44.720 Well in a way that that kind of focus on 269 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:50.839 us means that we still constitute the threat that we're 270 00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:56.519 not inconsequential. You see, if you're inconsequential, people ain't nobody 271 00:17:56.559 --> 00:18:00.480 praying attention to you. Ain't nobody even can, and whether 272 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:04.079 you there are not. But if they targeting you at 273 00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:07.519 the highest levels of government, trying to erase your history, 274 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:11.119 trying to break your spirit, trying to undermine your fire, 275 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:15.519 all that means is that they still fear you, even 276 00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:18.240 if it's a form of hatred. It's still a matter 277 00:18:18.279 --> 00:18:21.920 of we're trying to control you, trying to subjugate you. 278 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:27.400 They understand that black people at our best, with love 279 00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:31.359 in our heart and commitment to freedom and our soul, yes, 280 00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:36.240 we do constitute a threat to lies. We constitute a 281 00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:41.240 threat to crimes, We constitute a threat to oppression. So 282 00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:43.839 in a funny kind of way, it's a compliment. 283 00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:49.880 Yeah, that part die. We are relevant. We are more 284 00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:53.759 relevant than what we understand. And it is true that 285 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:59.319 we are, especially from a popular culture standpoint, the most 286 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:04.160 emulated people on the planet. Nobody even close. Now, I 287 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:07.880 said from a popular culture standpoint, and I can also 288 00:19:07.960 --> 00:19:14.960 add in from a social political liberation context, we are 289 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:18.559 the most emulated people on the face of the planet 290 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:23.920 because as marginalized people fight for their dignity and justice, 291 00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:29.720 they almost always look to the fight of black people 292 00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:34.960 for liberation at various times in our sojourn on this soil. 293 00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:39.680 That's true, that's true. I mean the challenge has always 294 00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:42.480 been that the genius in our music and our styles, 295 00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:46.920 the genius in our art is so difficult to translate 296 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:51.279 into institutional capacity for freedom, and it's so difficult to 297 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:56.359 translate into the same level of courageous political leadership. If 298 00:19:56.359 --> 00:19:59.880 we had political leaders who were as free as Erika Badu, 299 00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:03.440 we'd have been free long time ago. 300 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:06.839 Yes, sir, four. 301 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:09.680 Political leaders who are half as free as Nina Samon 302 00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:12.640 on a Curtis Mayfield. We would have been more free 303 00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:16.200 a long time ago. Now, that's not to say that 304 00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:18.799 we don't have any political leaders who are free. We 305 00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:22.839 do have a few. But we got whole lot of musicians, 306 00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:26.920 We got a whole lot of folk with style and 307 00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:31.960 smile who are free in terms of their art and 308 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:36.039 in terms of their style. But we don't have it 309 00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:42.279 in political leadership or an institutional form and capacity. That's 310 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:44.119 the challenge that we have. 311 00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:49.079 It's a very big challenge. Shot. And to add to that, 312 00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:52.839 what we must be concerned about is the manipulation of 313 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:55.240 the term woke and to use it in such a 314 00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:58.920 detrimental way impacts policy. I mean, you have people like 315 00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:02.720 Governor DeSantis, as you probably remember, and all these other 316 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:08.799 Republicans that have lots of power, criminalizing in many ways 317 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:11.759 woke and they're proud to be anti woke and that 318 00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:16.279 how then does that translate into public policy that impacts 319 00:21:16.599 --> 00:21:20.279 not only the African American community but the entire nation 320 00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:24.119 writ large. We don't want no wark policies. Well, it's 321 00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:27.720 wanting people to have health care or woke policy. Not 322 00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:30.720 wanting people to put insulin on credit cards or ration 323 00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:34.160 their insulin. Is that a wok policy? Wanting people to 324 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:37.960 have a living wage? Oh, I guess that's walk policy too. 325 00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:42.200 So what started off to be meant for evil for 326 00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:46.880 just solely black people, whenever the system comes after black people, 327 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:51.000 it ain't for too long before they're coming after everybody. 328 00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:54.759 Else, or at least poor and working poor. 329 00:21:54.680 --> 00:21:58.319 In working class absolutely always and sometimes poor and working 330 00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:01.160 class people from other ethnic or racial groups, even though 331 00:22:01.240 --> 00:22:03.559 race is a social construct. But that in the parking lot, 332 00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:06.640 they don't always realize that black people continue to be 333 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:10.079 the canary in the coal mine. When we come forward, 334 00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:13.920 we will continue this conversation. You're listening to Truth Time 335 00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:17.799 with Doctor Cornell West and Nina Turner. I guess we're 336 00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:24.359 staying for Yeah, well we'll stay right here. But yeah, 337 00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:28.960 the fact that some people don't recognize that attacks on 338 00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:30.920 black people in this way, they think it's just about 339 00:22:30.960 --> 00:22:32.920 us until it comes knocking at their door. 340 00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:38.880 Exactly right, Yeah, right, And that's part of the end 341 00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:42.920 callousness that we were talking about to see. 342 00:22:43.400 --> 00:22:49.400 Yeah, very much, very much, very callous. Absolutely, just the 343 00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:53.640 lack of humanity. You know, it's quite disturbing, and you 344 00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:57.920 and I will be wrestling with this for a long time. 345 00:22:57.960 --> 00:23:01.480 We've been wrestling with it before our Magnificent show and 346 00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:05.160 we continue to wrestle with it because the level of 347 00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:09.000 hatred that it takes to have a whole system bend 348 00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:12.799 to ensure that one group of people does not rise. 349 00:23:13.960 --> 00:23:18.640 That is quite quite chilling, Doc, very very chilling. Listen, 350 00:23:18.680 --> 00:23:21.400 you're listening the Truth Time with Doctor Cornell West and 351 00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:24.640 yours truly. When we come forward, we'll try this again. 352 00:23:24.759 --> 00:23:28.240 We're gonna continue this conversation as we are. Love and 353 00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:30.680 truth is the place that doctor West and I hang 354 00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:34.519 out a lot. We are loving it Doc about this time. 355 00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:37.119 You know what we do? We go to our live 356 00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:40.119 chat on the tube, and we are so thankful to 357 00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:44.160 our viewers, our audience, for the folks who are on 358 00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:48.039 here on a regular basis building strong community, not just 359 00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:51.480 with us, Doc, but one to another. So I'm about 360 00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:55.400 to get this party started. Mister Morris Phillip's good afternoon, 361 00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:59.680 Senator Turner and doctor West. Thank you for your courage, 362 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:02.160 and we thank him for his courage as well. Doc. 363 00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:03.359 That's y. 364 00:24:05.240 --> 00:24:11.279 Yeah, we got h Dorvilius. Good afternoon, Doctor West. Morris 365 00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:14.400 Phillips again, Doctor West, you must be talking about Burkina 366 00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:21.319 Fasco Africa self determination. Did I pronounce his name properly? Okay, 367 00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:24.279 So there are two questions in there while we're on him, Doc, 368 00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:26.680 let me just go on and jump to that Blessed 369 00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:30.880 Peacemaker is in that same lane. Senator Turner, please ask 370 00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:34.480 doctor West and give us your insights too about Trey 371 00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:39.079 or Burkina Fasco. Please. The US is wanting to take 372 00:24:39.160 --> 00:24:42.920 out yet another African leader working for his people, and 373 00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:45.480 we got quite a few questions that in that vein 374 00:24:46.039 --> 00:24:48.799 that and that's Blessed Peacemaker, by the way. 375 00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:57.559 Maker really has a has a fine focus on what 376 00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:00.720 is going on not just in Africa, but that particular 377 00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:03.200 part of Africa, because you know, the going back to 378 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:05.920 the Berlin Compass of eighteen eighty three and to scramble 379 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:10.480 for Africa and in colonial and imperial attempt to subsume 380 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:15.559 not just African lands, but African leaders under their aeges, 381 00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:19.920 under their authority, and it goes on to this day. 382 00:25:20.680 --> 00:25:23.720 People think that the struggle against imperialism was over because 383 00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:27.200 we now have African leaders over African nations. Know that's 384 00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:31.200 not true. You can have African leaders who themselves are 385 00:25:31.240 --> 00:25:35.599 subordinate to imperial powers and the people are still yearning 386 00:25:35.680 --> 00:25:39.799 for self determination, especially poor and working people are yearning 387 00:25:39.799 --> 00:25:43.880 for self determination. And the use of Africaan as a 388 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:50.319 strategy of the American Empire to expand and extend US 389 00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:54.759 imperial power in Africa over its resources, land, and peoples 390 00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:57.799 is something that you and I have talked about on 391 00:25:57.880 --> 00:26:01.079 this show and it's something that is it's that we 392 00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:04.640 need to zero in on. And in the particular instance 393 00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:08.440 that they have, we have another African leader who was 394 00:26:08.519 --> 00:26:15.240 so easily subordinating himself to US imperial interests in order 395 00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:20.400 to suppress the authentic and genuine yearnings of the self 396 00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:22.400 determination of an African people. 397 00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:25.839 Yeah, and even some that we touched on a little 398 00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:30.440 bit and yesterday's show about in Rwanda wanting to get 399 00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:34.079 some of the contracts to lock up other people's people, 400 00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:37.640 you know, immigrants, and so you're gonna ship them not 401 00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:40.359