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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, It's Stephanie Wilder Taylor and this is Drunkish.

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I am really excited about my guest today. She's been

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on the show before, she was one of my original guests,

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but this conversation took us in so many new directions.

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Her name is Suzanne ware and you might remember her

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from before, but she is the founder of the Sober

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Momlife dot com and she has a podcast called The

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Sober Momlife. I did her podcast, and basically she is

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a sober influencer. But I'm very excited to announce that

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she has a book coming out called The Sober Shift.

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And let me just give you something from the description

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of it. Waking up with another hangover as the thirty

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nine year old mother of a newborn, Suzanne Warey decided

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enough was enough. It was time to quit alcohol for good.

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In the years since, Suzanne has uncovered the myth of

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model and the limitations of the hitting rock bottom narrative. Today,

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she is a model for hundreds of thousands of people

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around the world who are embracing her brand of joyful sobriety.

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So let us welcome her back to the show. And

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here we are with Suzanne. Whare I back on Drunkish Yay,

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oh last name right, Well, don't forget. I did have

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to ask you before before the first time.

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Speaker 2: You came on, I was like, please, okay, but I

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feel like even I say it wrong sometimes, how do

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you say it? Well, I don't know, but I mean

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it's not an easy one to remember. I'd feel like

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so that you just like nailed it like it was nothing.

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Speaker 1: Well, I had to. I had to make sure that

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I learned it when you told me the first time,

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and that I practiced it a few times before having

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you on.

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Speaker 2: Well, though, you nailed it. That's so good.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so I'm so happy to be back. I

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feel like I feel at home here with you early

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you too, right.

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Speaker 1: I don't get any of the like, oh god, I

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have to remember everything. I feel like you and I

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can just chat.

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Speaker 2: We've literally been talking for like fifteen minutes before we recorded.

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We can chat about anything.

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Speaker 1: Oh we can, we can and we will what okay,

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because we talked a lot on your first appearance. So

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if anybody wants to hear the whole Susanne story, the

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whole thing, you can listen to the first episode, which

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was a couple of months ago. But there's always more.

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There's always more to the story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's more. And now I get to talk. I

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feel like I I didn't know what I was doing

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as far as the book goes. The last time I

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was on Remember and You're like, yeah, no, say it,

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And I was like can I and You're like, yes,

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of course you can. At your book. I wasn't like

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really in the promotional phase of the book, And now, man,

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am I in it. I am like holding up a

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sign outside my house being like the Sober Shift September

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thirtieth pre order. It not like I will push it

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to anyone who will listen.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to get those pre sales.

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Speaker 2: My god, I know it is. It's all about the

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pre sales, right.

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Speaker 1: It's all about well it's it's okay, it's all about

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the pre sales. They like you to have some pre sales.

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But here's the thing. Yeah, you are going to sell

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a lot of books because you have a lot of fans,

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you have a lot of people that follow you. You're

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an influencer. So I don't think you have to worry

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too much, okay, but you do have to sort of

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make yourself available to people who might not know who

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you are, right.

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Speaker 2: It's all it's just a very it's a very weird thing.

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Even to hear you say like you have fans, I'm like,

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that's insane, Like it's all very it's just weird. This

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whole thing is very surreal. Like even having a book.

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I don't I don't like have the actual book in

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my hands yet, But when that's going to happen, I like,

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it's just going to be weird, all of it. And

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then to have people reading the words that I wrote

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for so long, and a lot of it is my

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story and stories that I haven't told on the podcast,

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which I know is like shocking to some people because

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I talk so much. They're like, wait, you have more

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things left to say, And yeah, I do. I'm so

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much to say and it's in there.

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Speaker 1: And did you feel like did you feel like some

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of those things? Okay, let me speak author to author

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for a moment. Okay, when you were writing yeah, because

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I know that, I was like, well, I've told my

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story a lot of times to people, and then when

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I went to actually write my story, I was like, oh,

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I forgot about that. Yes, oh totally see, do I

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want to tell that story because at this point I

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could just not tell that story.

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Speaker 2: Yes, oh it's so, yeah, it's can you hear my dog? Yeah?

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Oh okay, good, it's so. It was. It was healing,

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and it was also terrifying to like sit down and

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I'm looking back at my life because most of it

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is my story. It's other women's stories too, which I

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really wanted to include. But in my story, yeah, I

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had to look back and say, like, okay, like where

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did alcohol come in? Like what did inform my opinion

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and relationship with alcohol? Like what started that? A lot

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of it is me going back and telling like part

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of my dad's story, right, because that was my story too,

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and that's really uncomfortable. He's no longer here, and so

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that feels, you know a little like do I want

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to keep this for me or I just want to

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make sure that I'm i don't know, honoring him in

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the best way I can while also really telling how

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it was for me to grow up with a dad

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who drank a lot for a period of time. And

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then yeah, some skeletons that are out there and like

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my not great moments, you know, these aren't I'm not like, hey, guys,

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these are all the really great decisions I made. No,

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this is like, yeah, here's a lot of shit that

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I fucked up, you know, in my in my twenties,

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and how it titled me the.

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Speaker 1: Book that I Fucked Up.

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Speaker 2: All the shit that I fucked up, that's a subtitle,

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but it's true. And then, you know, I think, because

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most of my drinking was before I was a mom,

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I guess I kind of thought like, well, we'll just

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leave that there, like that party girl, blackout drinker, leave

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her there, and then it's not going to affect me

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here like in my thirties and forties and as a mom.

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And that's just not true, even if I no longer drank.

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But and I didn't drink in motherhood the way I

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drank in my twenties, but like the way that I

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drank in my twenties affected me, affected me even when

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I wasn't drinking, and that shame and those stories and

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how I would do things that I never would have

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done had alcohol not been in the picture. Right, And

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so there's a specific story that I write about that

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I am confronted very clearly, like as I'm in my

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daughter's nursery and rocking her and something from my past

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comes back kind of into my current day motherhood, and

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it like jolted me and I you know when it

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feels like you just get like punched in the gut

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and like oh, holy shit, like I had forgotten about that.

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And yeah, so there's there's all of that, like kind

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of the reckoning of the wreckage that drinking caused in

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my twenties.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel like because you're making me think of

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this for myself? Yeah, I also drank that way in

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my twenties, blackout drinker, driving drunk, not really suffering too

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many consequences, but not feeling great about myself, wondering like

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do I drink too much? Humiliating myself sometimes. But when

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I became a mom, I definitely thought, oh, now I'm

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going to be this other kind of drinker, this wine drinker.

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That's like it's going to be much classier as a model,

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it's super classy. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: First of all, it's wine, you know what I mean,

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which just right there, So I'm just like, yeah, that's

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like way different, you guys, way classier the bottles pink.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is now instead of partying, I'm going

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to be unwinding.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm a and like literally a lady who lunches like,

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oh yeah during the day, Oh my god, day drinking

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is like the most triggering thing to me. Oh my god.

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I just don't think there's hell on earth more than

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day drinking.

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Speaker 1: I have a story in my book about going to

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lunch when my older daughter, well, i'd met a mom

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at Mommy and me and my daughter Elbie was, you know,

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literally like six months old, and I had this other mom.

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We were going to go do something and we went

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to a Mexican restaurant. I don't know if you've remembered

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this from my book, but I was like, well, we're

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at a Mexican restaurant and we don't have jobs, and

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we're with our babies, so like, obviously we're going to

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get a margarita, right, That seems real obvious. And then

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my friend was like, oh, not for me because.

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Speaker 2: Like I have to drive or some bullshit excuse right,

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loser nerd.

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Speaker 1: And that was my thinking was just like what is wow?

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Like how fun are these people?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: Oh, moms, they suck? Like I can't be friends with

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other you know, And this is I think I believe

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that she really just wouldn't let me bully her into

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getting a margarita, and I did have to just get

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one for myself because I was like, well.

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Speaker 2: You're like, I'm not going to let you stop me.

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Speaker 1: It's fun killer. Yeah, there's a but it seems so

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embarrassing looking back, Like looking back, I cringed writing that

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story because and I've talked to this is still a

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friend of mine, really good, one of my best friends

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to this day, and I've many times just been like,

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what did you think when I was because I'm not exaggerating,

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I really was trying to talk her into it, and

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she says, oh, yeah, she just felt bad because she

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was like no, But I really am kind of a

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lightweight like I because I just feel like, you really

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wanted to drink.

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Speaker 2: I mean, okay, I'm laughing because I remember that story

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in your book and I have a very very similar story.

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But my friend did not say no, and we were

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then like, well, yeah, obviously this is what we're gonna do.

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We don't have to drive anywhere, Like we can walk

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from the country club to my house. Keep it going,

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you know, bottle of champagne. And that was the only time,

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and this was my oldest was like nine months old.

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Or ten months old, and so this was the only

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time I was blacked out in front of any of

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my children. And you know, she was obviously a baby

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and didn't know what the hell was going on, and

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thank god, nothing happened. Like it was fine, like she

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was safe, like my best friend's daughter was safe. But

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that moment, oh my god, stuck with me until I

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quit drinking. Like from then on, I was like the

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master of moderation and I had like the the strictest

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boundaries and I controlled alcohol like so well, and I

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hated it. It was horrible because the shame was the same,

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like with moderation. Even if I was like, yeah, I'll

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have two glasses of wine, I still would like just

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it was just so wrapped up in shame for me

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and the and just the energy it took to do

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that and to figure out how to drink in this better,

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more classy way, you know. Oh yeah, but that was

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the that your story where it stopped. Mine kept going

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right there on that night, and then my husband came

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home at like, you know, from work, at like six,

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and I was like blacked out because that's what happens

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in day drinking. Did he know, Oh yeah, he Okay,

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this is funny. I don't even know if I wrote this,

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but he he was like, oh no, you know, like

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what is my wife as like? And and my best

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friend was also drunk, like he called her husband like,

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we gotta do something about our wives because they're here.

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The babies were asleep on the couch, and you know,

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our wives are are wasted. And so her husband came together.

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Speaker 1: Not funny, but it's kind of funny.

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Speaker 2: It's funny now.

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Speaker 1: It's funny to me because I relate because we're sober.

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It's funny because we're.

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Speaker 2: So funny because we are safe and sober and like

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have lived to tell the table. You can you can

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understand when I come down the next morning, do you

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know what my husband did? But I don't know if

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this is an asshole move or it's funny. But at

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the time, of course, because I was like stee in

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shame and like, oh my god, how could I have

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let this happen? Right, I'm a mom. Now I'm not

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supposed to like I thought I would just be able

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to not do that. He had caution tape taped or

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round the living room where the.

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Speaker 1: Oh god, that's amazing.

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Speaker 2: Even worse, I come down to like caution tape, like

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like my my living room was like yeah, and it

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was a wrack. Oh god it was. That was like

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the last time and I had gotten like drunk in mother,

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but never around my kids. I then made it like

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I don't know, I was it was just like that

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was just never going to happen again.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, so when you say that it was that

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made it it was worse when you're moderating. Why do

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you say that because it was just hard to moderate

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because you.

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Speaker 2: Think, yeah, I think that I always come back to

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this like anti grace quote that's ninety nine percent is

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a bitch, one hundred percent is a breeze, And that

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is so what it is for me, you know. I

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just I was convinced that because I wasn't drinking every day,

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I wasn't getting black out drunk every time I drank.

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I wasn't you know, drinking them all of these things

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that we think make us qualified for sobriety. I wasn't that.

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And I could. I had so much evidence collected of

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why I didn't need to stop drinking, and I just

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I thought I had to figure out a better way.

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I thought, like I'm an adult and I'm a mom

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and I deserve to be able to drink wine, and

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so I'm going to figure out how to make this work.

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And yeah, it was hard because it's a highly addictive substance.

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And like if you have a highly addictive substance in

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your life, it's going to take willpower, it's going to

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take energy, you know. And some people like the threshold

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for that is higher. Mine was very high. Like my

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willpower top notch. You know, like when I decide I'm

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going to do something, I can kind of just like, yeah,

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I'm going to quit sugar, and then I do it.

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I Mean we'll talk about that. That's a different story,

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but you know, like I can just decide, but it

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takes so much. And then I wasn't ever looking at

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the shame. And it was the shame around my relationship

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with alcohol. And I always consider that like the mold

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in the basement and the shame of the stories that

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you know, decades of stories I had collected on like

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what how I was when I invited alcohol in and

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like what it actually took from me because it took

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so much. And yeah, and then actually I don't I

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didn't black out like around my kids until the last

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time I was drinking when I nursed my baby in

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a blackout, and that was ten years No, no, not

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ten years later, that was five years later then.

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Speaker 1: From when you had that caution tape, right, yeah, no,

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I mean, and I think that's what this book is about.

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And that's why your story speaks to me so much,

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and maybe my story speaks to you is because you know,

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maybe from the outside looking in, I think it's this

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is really interesting and you may find this when you're

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When the reviews start coming in, I'm very terrified.

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Speaker 2: I know. You gotta help. You got to talk me

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through that, because I will talk you through it.

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Speaker 1: Don't read them.

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Speaker 2: It's it's going to be a dopamine seeking thing though, right.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, you're gonna to get reviews from people just

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the same way you have on your podcast, where they

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love you and they thank you and they see themselves

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in your story and that's enough, you know, and some

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people are not going to resonate. And for some reason,

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those people are going to want to let you know that.

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I don't understand what the thinking is. They like yourself,

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don't care for something. But you need to really make

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sure that the person who did this art created, this

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knows that we can't.

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Speaker 2: Do anything about that. Like it's it's done, like the

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ink is dry, like I can't change it for you, sorry,

318
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like it's done.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I for some reason, And I think it's because

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I've written a lot of books. Now, yeah, I it

321
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sometimes it doesn't bother me the same way it used to,

322
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so I can read them and just go like, ah, yeah,

323
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when I wrote Sippy Cups Are Not for Chardonnay, which

324
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was like twenty years ago, now, oh god, those reviews

325
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because people were real mad and that was not a

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sobriety book. So but that was people calling me an alcoholic.

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Speaker 2: And I really like, wait a second.

328
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Speaker 1: Yeah, But what I was going to say is that

329
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what's really interesting is that some people were like, wow,

330
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I can't believe this girl who wrote this book, this

331
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woman thinks she had like was high functioning. Yes, like

332
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she was so clearly a really bad alcoholic. But then

333
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there's other people that are like, well, she wasn't even

334
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that bad, Like I don't even see why she quit drinking. Yes,

335
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and yes, I think what you're seeing is like it's

336
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it's such a personal thing because I think other women

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might have some of the same experiences we had and

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not feel a level of shame.

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Speaker 2: Yes or just yeah, I think you're totally right, Like

340
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I think I think I can say, like, yeah, I

341
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nursed my baby in a blackout, that's what caused me

342
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to stop drinking. But I didn't hit rock bottom. And

343
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I can completely hear a hundred people saying, hello, that's

344
00:20:07,759 --> 00:20:12,759
rock bottom, right exactly. I think it's all about the

345
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evidence collection, right, and it's all about the like seeing

346
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if you're still in the mind. And this is where

347
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I I'm so careful not to put anyone in the

348
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position to defend alcohol, like I don't want to do that,

349
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and so like, if you are not ready to quit drinking,

350
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well you're probably not going to listen to this podcast

351
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if you're not ready to quit drinking, right, But anyone

352
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:42,279
in my life, like if they're if anyone's saying like, oh,

353
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you you weren't quote unquote that bad, or you weren't

354
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that bad or some sort of whatever, this amorphous like

355
00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:54,200
finish line we have set for ourselves that says like, yes,

356
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you can now enter into a life without alcohol. Yeah,

357
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:04,480
Like I think that there will be many people who say, well, no,

358
00:21:04,759 --> 00:21:10,440
you hit rock bottom. But then then on the flip side, Yeah,

359
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,440
like I think that many women, I mean especially now

360
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,079
post COVID and during COVID, moms are drinking more than ever.

361
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:23,880
I don't think stories like mine and like yours are rare.

362
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I think that we have like set up this like

363
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idea of a normal drinker, maybe as like a I

364
00:21:33,519 --> 00:21:36,359
don't know, take it or leave it or like stop

365
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,920
at one. And that's not how people women, moms especially

366
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:45,920
are drinking. It's just not like moms are drinking now

367
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more than ever because we've been targeted and because we've

368
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been sold that alcohol will help all of the things

369
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that motherhood brings and that's the biggest lie ever. But yeah,

370
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I think you're right. I gotta get ready.

371
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Speaker 1: I gotta get ready for that people that drink, you know,

372
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,880
a glass of wine. Yeah, not like who we're speaking to, right, Yeah,

373
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:11,799
So like, let me tell you when my rock bottom,

374
00:22:11,839 --> 00:22:14,720
which was driving drunk. Yeah, let me tell you how

375
00:22:14,759 --> 00:22:19,000
that happened. I go to I'm having a fun time.

376
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:23,160
You know. The kids are really little. One of my twins,

377
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I still don't remember which one I was with, but

378
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,960
one of them was. They were eighteen months. The twins

379
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and my oldest daughter was four and a half. I'm

380
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,519
going to I'm invited to a friend's house who's having

381
00:22:34,599 --> 00:22:37,720
like a bunch of fun people over. There is a

382
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,759
nanny there who's watching like the younger kids, and there's

383
00:22:41,839 --> 00:22:44,880
like a little trampoline area and there's like it's like

384
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,759
a nice house and she's pouring Martini's. It's it's not

385
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,799
like like when you hear me say that I drove drunk.

386
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,799
I think what people picture is like I just went

387
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,599
to a bar, got wasted and was like driving around

388
00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:58,799
town with my kids.

389
00:22:58,759 --> 00:23:00,839
Speaker 2: Or like you have jack in a paper bag and

390
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,680
you're like swinging it while you're behind the wheel, right,

391
00:23:03,799 --> 00:23:05,240
Like yes, No, it's like.

392
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,400
Speaker 1: No, I didn't not to get drunk. I set out

393
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,200
to like unwind like I always did, and I set

394
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,119
out in my mind to like have a drink, and

395
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,880
this is what I always did. And this is why

396
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,200
it turns out to be my rock bottom is because

397
00:23:20,279 --> 00:23:24,000
it was the clarifying moment of like, oh, I don't

398
00:23:24,039 --> 00:23:26,160
think there'll ever be a time where I really am

399
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,680
able to just have a drink and unwind. I don't

400
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,480
ever want one drink because yeah.

401
00:23:33,079 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 2: That's not how it's designed like, it's not designed for

402
00:23:36,559 --> 00:23:41,240
us to want one. And I think that we're not

403
00:23:41,519 --> 00:23:46,640
in the minority of people who like I can think

404
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,680
of like just a few people in my life whoever,

405
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:55,039
just are like one. I'm good, right, I'll stop. The

406
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,640
majority aren't. Even if it's two, even if it's three,

407
00:23:58,839 --> 00:24:03,400
it's still over the course of time, because of tolerance,

408
00:24:03,519 --> 00:24:07,200
because of how highly addictive it is, it will ramp up.

409
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,759
And so even if you're not starting with five glasses

410
00:24:10,799 --> 00:24:14,599
of wine, right, you're starting with two every night, and

411
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,319
then slowly and slowly it ramps up. And even the

412
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,119
two every night, I mean, you're still gonna especially like

413
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,519
I'm in perimenopause, and like you're gonna wake up at

414
00:24:25,599 --> 00:24:31,279
three am with that spiral of like anxiety and all

415
00:24:31,319 --> 00:24:35,160
of the stuff, like even just feeling dusty and foggy

416
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,079
in the morning when you have to get up and

417
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:42,160
mother and you need you need to be firing on

418
00:24:42,599 --> 00:24:45,160
if not all cylinders, like three of them.

419
00:24:45,519 --> 00:24:48,039
Speaker 1: Right, and then and then if you feel like you

420
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,119
really need that glass of wine at the end of

421
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,240
the day, then when you wake up with that like anxiety,

422
00:24:53,559 --> 00:24:58,680
you're gonna convince yourself that, like Okay, I'm just gonna

423
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,920
cut I'm not gonna have I think I had too

424
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,200
many last night, but I'm gonna I'm gonna cut it

425
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:04,839
back to two. Yeah, for sure.

426
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,759
Speaker 2: And they didn't eat enough, like that was it. I

427
00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:10,200
just didn't eat enough. Or maybe it's the sugar in

428
00:25:10,279 --> 00:25:13,000
the wine. Maybe I'll just do vodka right because like

429
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,640
or oh my god, I forgot to drink water in between.

430
00:25:17,039 --> 00:25:21,799
Oh my god. Yeah, it's not user aerror. It's it's

431
00:25:21,839 --> 00:25:25,359
just not user airor you knows you're not the problem.

432
00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 1: It's so true. And I think that, you know, we

433
00:25:29,799 --> 00:25:33,039
all convince ourselves. And you know, I had already had

434
00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:37,960
a try at quitting drinking before this incident happened. And

435
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,480
it was like when I decided to drive after having

436
00:25:42,519 --> 00:25:45,839
those drinks, I wasn't thinking like, oh god, I've had

437
00:25:45,839 --> 00:25:49,079
too many drinks. I was feeling good and fine because

438
00:25:49,079 --> 00:25:49,960
you were pretty fine.

439
00:25:50,079 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, you weren't in your the alcohol had taken over

440
00:25:53,039 --> 00:25:57,680
your brain. If you weren't the decision making Stephanie that

441
00:25:57,759 --> 00:26:00,720
you were when you got to that party. The second

442
00:26:00,799 --> 00:26:04,799
though alcohol hits your brain, your decision making is impaired.

443
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:10,599
I mean you are impaired. Right, and so it's not this. Yeah,

444
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,799
it's not a way that like, well, we just got

445
00:26:12,799 --> 00:26:15,240
to do this better. I just have to continue to

446
00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:18,799
make good decisions even after I'm drinking. It's a different brain,

447
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:25,720
Like the thing has taken over. I think, yeah, it's

448
00:26:25,799 --> 00:26:30,680
it's any anytime I talk about like moms quitting drinking

449
00:26:31,039 --> 00:26:36,880
and like motherhood and sobriety, I think it can start

450
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,680
to And I always want to make sure it doesn't

451
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,680
sound like I'm saying, like moms, we need to be

452
00:26:43,079 --> 00:26:47,119
our best selves and so we need to stop drinking, right,

453
00:26:47,279 --> 00:26:53,240
Like that's not it, Like there's no like best anything here.

454
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:59,279
What we have been sold will help us in motherhood

455
00:26:59,799 --> 00:27:04,960
and like get us through and you know, help us

456
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:09,519
with the relentlessness of it. And just the constant needing

457
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,319
is hurting us, is hurting our mental health and is

458
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,559
getting us away from knowing what we need, and it's

459
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:22,519
keeping us stuck and quiet, and like there are many

460
00:27:22,559 --> 00:27:25,720
people who are benefiting from us being addicted and quiet,

461
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,960
because when we're in a society who doesn't take care

462
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,240
of moms and who doesn't take the time to say

463
00:27:32,279 --> 00:27:35,480
systematically what do moms need? From the time we have babies,

464
00:27:35,519 --> 00:27:39,119
and then all the way through there's a lot of

465
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,720
people who benefit from us being quiet, and like, I

466
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:44,440
just got to the point where I was like, that's

467
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,960
the cost is too high now, and so whether that

468
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,279
is maybe it is one one glass of wine, right,

469
00:27:52,839 --> 00:27:56,480
maybe it's two, maybe it's three, it'll it'll ramp up,

470
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,200
but whatever it is, now, if I think what you're

471
00:28:00,319 --> 00:28:03,599
looking forward to at the end of the night is

472
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,119
your glass of wine, I think what we do is

473
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,839
we just stop a second and say, like, what why?

474
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,920
Like what am I? Is it to escape? Which is

475
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,559
totally fine because I want to escape too. Is it

476
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:23,079
to numb? Is it to cope or conform or like belong? Like,

477
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,200
let's get to the root of the why, and then

478
00:28:26,279 --> 00:28:30,000
let's deal with that, because there are real problems under that, right,

479
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,680
Like you have actual needs that need to be met,

480
00:28:34,039 --> 00:28:38,400
and the highly addictive substance is just masking that while

481
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,519
also causing so much other shit on top of it.

482
00:28:43,519 --> 00:28:46,799
Speaker 1: I think you've just made some really important points and

483
00:28:46,839 --> 00:28:50,160
I want to take that and tell talk to the

484
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,359
people out there who are like, okay, But so, so

485
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,640
let's say I'm a person with some ism to me,

486
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,279
and I'm not doing well moderating, and it is taking

487
00:29:00,359 --> 00:29:02,799
up a lot of it's exhausting to moderate and I

488
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:04,519
really do want to check out at the end of

489
00:29:04,559 --> 00:29:08,880
the day. Yeah, So how do how do you quit?

490
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,400
Leave the alcohol behind and just not do it? You know?

491
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:17,200
And what do I replace it with? And I'll start

492
00:29:17,359 --> 00:29:19,240
because I'll say that, you know, I think that's a

493
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,559
really good question. I've imposed that question a lot. Okay,

494
00:29:21,559 --> 00:29:22,319
well how do you do it?

495
00:29:22,519 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: Yeah?

496
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 1: And like for me, I needed a bunch of support

497
00:29:26,599 --> 00:29:28,880
and I did, you know, go to twelve step meetings

498
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,279
and surround myself with other people who are doing the

499
00:29:31,319 --> 00:29:34,240
same thing. One of the tools that I used was

500
00:29:34,279 --> 00:29:38,160
like calling somebody and just going like, hey, I'm like

501
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,079
kind of hurting right now. I just I'm feeling so anxious,

502
00:29:41,359 --> 00:29:43,119
like I don't know what to do with myself. This

503
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,359
is when I would really have a glass of wine.

504
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,880
And then sometimes I would need to just be talked

505
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,839
through that moment, like yes by another sober person. Yes,

506
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:53,880
And I have I called a girl that wrote a

507
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,519
book called Mommy Doesn't Drink Here Anymore Rachel Browno. Yes,

508
00:29:58,759 --> 00:30:01,839
And I called her once. Actually I was I ming

509
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:06,519
her over aol instant messenger, and I was like, I'm dying.

510
00:30:07,319 --> 00:30:09,839
Help me, and she was like, okay, can you get

511
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,640
through like a few minutes? And I, you know, actually

512
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,319
this was like more about Xanax. But the point is

513
00:30:16,559 --> 00:30:19,839
I was sometimes it's minute to minute. Okay, Now what

514
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,559
do I do? Sixteen years later, I'll tell you what's

515
00:30:22,559 --> 00:30:24,240
like different for me, and then I want to hear

516
00:30:24,279 --> 00:30:27,960
what's different for you. What's different for me is not

517
00:30:28,039 --> 00:30:31,240
that I don't need to escape or check out sometimes

518
00:30:31,279 --> 00:30:37,799
because my brain is very busy and I overthink and

519
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,359
I have anxiety and all the things. Right, So it's

520
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,519
not magic. It's not like, oh well, I just don't

521
00:30:43,559 --> 00:30:46,920
drink anymore. It's like, no, I still overdo my phone.

522
00:30:47,519 --> 00:30:49,960
I scroll and scroll, I play games on my phone.

523
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:55,799
I sometimes use the sugar. But what's changed is it,

524
00:30:55,839 --> 00:30:59,759
instead of using the alcohol to mask the things or

525
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:05,599
whatever my little escapes are, I actually speak up for myself,

526
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:10,279
like I don't just try to eat it down, you know,

527
00:31:10,319 --> 00:31:12,160
stuff it down and go No. I don't want to

528
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,839
say this. I don't want to tell my husband this

529
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:15,720
is bothering me, because then it's going to be it's

530
00:31:15,759 --> 00:31:18,400
too much. Yes, I'm too needy.

531
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 2: Like I don't want to take up space.

532
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: Yes, now I just go like, you know what, this

533
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,839
is how I'm feeling. This stuff leads to me wanting

534
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:28,559
to do more of the checking out. So I'm just

535
00:31:28,599 --> 00:31:31,039
going to speak up and say like, hey, I need

536
00:31:31,079 --> 00:31:34,119
more help with this or you know, I used to

537
00:31:34,119 --> 00:31:37,359
not be able to This is like a sobriety. I

538
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,720
used to not be able to tell my husband like, hey,

539
00:31:39,799 --> 00:31:41,359
I need you to walk the dog because I'm busy.

540
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,119
Right now, I'd be like, oh, I'll just do it.

541
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,079
I don't want to put anybody out ever, so I

542
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,279
do I overfunction for everybody. Oh yes, I was drinking.

543
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,759
Speaker 2: That's you right, that's the only way you could do that, right, right.

544
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,640
And when you think about, yeah, that's the cost, the

545
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,000
cost of us, And that's such a relatable story for mine.

546
00:32:00,319 --> 00:32:02,799
It's like, no, I got it, I'll do it. I'll

547
00:32:02,839 --> 00:32:05,119
make that appointment. Oh right, I gotta get this, I

548
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,279
gotta do this. We're shouldering all of that, and the

549
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,440
cost is our mental health. We are last on the list, right,

550
00:32:13,519 --> 00:32:18,839
and we really have to like elbow our way into

551
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,680
the shit and make space for us. And I think

552
00:32:21,839 --> 00:32:24,799
that's part of the and this is kind of what

553
00:32:24,839 --> 00:32:26,559
I do in the book, Like the first half of

554
00:32:26,599 --> 00:32:29,119
the book, and each chapter is a shift from like

555
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,200
a shift from anonymous to a shift from to proudly sober,

556
00:32:33,279 --> 00:32:37,799
or a shift from counting days to sober first or

557
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:42,920
whatever it is, right, So really like, yeah, it's shifting. First,

558
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:44,519
the first part of the book is going to shift

559
00:32:44,559 --> 00:32:48,359
how you your entire perspective on alcohol. And so that's

560
00:32:48,359 --> 00:32:51,119
like burn the shit down. So the first half of

561
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,559
the book is burning the shit down, burning the shit

562
00:32:54,039 --> 00:32:57,559
about how we have learned about alcohol. Where did we

563
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,400
get the messaging, what alcohol was going to do for us?

564
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,000
What did it really do for us? Right, we're not lunatics.

565
00:33:04,039 --> 00:33:07,599
What are we getting from alcohol? Like, we're getting something right.

566
00:33:08,119 --> 00:33:10,880
And then the second half is the building. And I

567
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,039
think what you're talking about is the building, and that

568
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:18,160
takes time and it can be scary to live in

569
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,359
this kind of like barren wasteland of like, well, I

570
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,559
took away what was really useful for me for a

571
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,720
long time, right I and has been a constant in

572
00:33:30,799 --> 00:33:34,240
my life. So you're I'm gonna take alcohol away. You're

573
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,880
not going to get to the building yet. And that's scary.

574
00:33:38,039 --> 00:33:41,640
So there is a lot of that like discomfort period

575
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:46,279
of even just practicing being uncomfortable. And I talk a

576
00:33:46,319 --> 00:33:48,559
lot about ways in the book how we can practice

577
00:33:48,559 --> 00:33:52,000
being uncomfortable, because I think that's really the key to

578
00:33:52,119 --> 00:33:54,920
all of it. And just like feeling our feelings, because

579
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:56,920
you guys have promised you I have felt all of

580
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,720
the feelings in sobriety, and like they don't they kind

581
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,359
of just go like you just feel them and then

582
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,359
you fall to your knees and you cry or you

583
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,880
like scream or whatever and feel anxiety and then they

584
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,519
just like leave, they don't stay, and you don't stay

585
00:34:12,559 --> 00:34:16,280
stuck in them. I think that if someone's listening and

586
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,239
she's like, I'm so sick of moderating, like I have.

587
00:34:20,679 --> 00:34:23,559
You know, I've done a dry January, but I've lasted

588
00:34:23,599 --> 00:34:26,280
twenty days and I always just kind of fall back

589
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:31,079
into this like habitual cycle or maybe it's compulsive or whatever,

590
00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:34,599
it is, just this cycle alcohol keeps coming back. I

591
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:39,719
think telling someone, like really like telling someone the truth

592
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:44,199
about alcohol and your feelings about it is step number one.

593
00:34:44,599 --> 00:34:48,960
And that's really scary because we've been like we don't

594
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,239
talk about alcohol, we don't talk about the truth about it,

595
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,320
like because we're afraid that they'll say, like, obviously you

596
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,320
have to report to AA or whatever, you have to

597
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,920
go to rehab or whatever it is, right, Like I right, right,

598
00:35:03,639 --> 00:35:04,360
and like.

599
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,559
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call your husband and let it know.

600
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:08,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, you will be on the front page of the

601
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,239
paper with the with the with the right and like

602
00:35:13,119 --> 00:35:17,840
you have to find or reach out or connect if

603
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,760
it's your husband, if it's your best friend, if it's

604
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,559
an online Like that's why I created the Sober Mom

605
00:35:22,599 --> 00:35:27,199
Life Cafe Go where women are telling the truth about

606
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,639
alcohol and begin to tell the truth. And for to

607
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,079
be in the cafe, you can still be drinking. It's

608
00:35:34,119 --> 00:35:36,519
not like you can't. You have to be sober. And

609
00:35:37,079 --> 00:35:41,679
it's very important to start to tell the truth. And

610
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:46,000
then yeah, I mean it's way leads on to way

611
00:35:46,199 --> 00:35:49,199
in this thing, right, and then you do find ways

612
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:54,000
to escape, like I escape these days in like I

613
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,320
think music is a huge escape. I can put on

614
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,159
like I can go for a run. I'm a huge runner,

615
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,480
and so I could put on some like you know,

616
00:36:04,679 --> 00:36:08,360
two thousand and seven rap and like go for a run.

617
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,400
And I'm in Atlanta, man, and I'm twenty seven years old,

618
00:36:11,559 --> 00:36:14,239
and I'm or I'm in the clip club like I am,

619
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:19,000
like I'm right there, like it just reminds me of

620
00:36:19,159 --> 00:36:21,880
a part of me that is still in there. Or

621
00:36:23,079 --> 00:36:25,679
water like water is big for me, like crying in

622
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,360
the shower, cry like you guys, cry if you haven't

623
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,320
cried this week, what are you doing?

624
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,199
Speaker 1: Like some people can't just cry on demand, but I'd

625
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:40,920
rather like go look up Bonzi. Okay, yeah, watch like some.

626
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:46,159
Speaker 2: Watch watch Marley and Me or Beaches or yeah, yes,

627
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,840
just like cry put on like I will. I lost

628
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,000
my dad just a year into sobriety, which I talk

629
00:36:52,039 --> 00:36:54,880
a lot about I write about in the book, and uh,

630
00:36:55,599 --> 00:36:59,920
I loved I just a lot. It was almost you guys,

631
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,800
it's gonna sound weird, just like with me. It was

632
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:07,159
almost like an orgasm, like a good cry. It's like

633
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:11,079
a wave and I feel it like I am in

634
00:37:11,159 --> 00:37:13,960
my closet. I shut the door, my kids, No, this

635
00:37:14,039 --> 00:37:16,320
is one of my boundaries. If the door is shut

636
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,480
in my closet, don't come in like that is a

637
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,400
that is a she is in there crying.

638
00:37:22,599 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: You don't want to see this.

639
00:37:24,199 --> 00:37:27,559
Speaker 2: No, you don't know. This is not for anyone's eyes

640
00:37:27,599 --> 00:37:31,239
but mine, okay, and the good Lord like, no, this

641
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,199
is not a safe zone for you. So and I

642
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:38,440
would feel like this like kind of wash over me.

643
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:40,599
I would put on a Pirate looks at forty by

644
00:37:40,639 --> 00:37:43,960
Jimmy Buffett, his favorite song, and then I would just cry.

645
00:37:44,039 --> 00:37:47,000
And I still do it, like anytime I feel myself

646
00:37:47,079 --> 00:37:51,480
just like pissy and just like I have a hysterectomy,

647
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,320
so I don't know if it's PMS, but maybe like whatever,

648
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,199
I'm like, oh, I need a closet session, Like I

649
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,599
need to go in there and make myself the status

650
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:07,159
that I can possibly be to like release, and I

651
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,719
need like we all need that, and I think especially

652
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,440
in early sobriety and as moms, we're afraid of these feelings.

653
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:23,800
We're afraid of like our big feelings, right of getting angry, resemple, uh, anxious, sad,

654
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:25,639
all of these things. And it's like no, no, no,

655
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,519
lean in, like that's where the message is. Lean into that.

656
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: Let me ask you. I wanted to bring up something

657
00:38:33,559 --> 00:38:36,360
that that I think is a perfect that this is

658
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,440
a perfect lead into yeah, and that is for okay,

659
00:38:40,519 --> 00:38:43,519
So this is something that I read on your Facebook

660
00:38:43,639 --> 00:38:48,800
group oh, were in there, I mean in your Facebook group? Yeah,

661
00:38:49,159 --> 00:38:50,039
and that's all.

662
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 2: Is it like the wild Wild West in there, isn't

663
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:52,920
it wild?

664
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,039
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah? Yeah, yeah yeah. It's a big group of

665
00:38:56,039 --> 00:38:58,280
people and a lot of them are anonymous, so I

666
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,800
am not breaking anyone's in an But somebody said that

667
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:07,000
they were newly sober and they absolutely hate their husband

668
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:12,199
and and they just they just everything annoys them and

669
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,280
they think and it's very overwhelming feeling. They feel like

670
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,360
maybe they want to get a divorce, you know, because

671
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,159
it's just like so bad. And I think that it's

672
00:39:21,199 --> 00:39:23,719
a really common thing. And what I told this person, so,

673
00:39:24,199 --> 00:39:26,039
I said, you should go watch the movie When a

674
00:39:26,079 --> 00:39:29,280
Man Loves a Woman, the Meg Ryan movie, Meg Ryan,

675
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,800
Andy Garcia classic. I'll tell you why this movie is

676
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,480
great because a lot of movies about people getting sober

677
00:39:36,679 --> 00:39:39,119
are like and then they get sober, and then they

678
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:40,400
it lasts and then.

679
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:42,679
Speaker 2: And then everything's all good. Yeah.

680
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:46,320
Speaker 1: But in a Man Loves a Woman, Meg Ryan goes

681
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,760
to rehab and that's just where the movie like really

682
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:54,280
gets going because she comes home and she and Andy Garcia,

683
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,480
who we loved at the beginning because he loves her.

684
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:02,039
He's so cute. He's so like, we so, yeah, it's

685
00:40:02,199 --> 00:40:04,800
really hot. He's really like, how do I make you happy?

686
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,440
I just love being with my wife, you know, And

687
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,400
then she just wants to kill him. When she gets home,

688
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:16,599
she's like seeing her rehab friends and like she's got

689
00:40:16,599 --> 00:40:18,639
this whole other thing going on, and he just wants

690
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,599
to be like included, and he's not understanding why she's

691
00:40:22,639 --> 00:40:25,000
having a little bit of a temper. Yeah, and her

692
00:40:25,039 --> 00:40:27,960
whole thing is she's so And then there's this line

693
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,960
in there where she says like she's like I don't

694
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,480
want you to touch me or something, and he's like, uh,

695
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,440
forgive me if I want a wife who doesn't like

696
00:40:35,519 --> 00:40:38,199
get grossed out when I try to touch her something

697
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:43,000
like that. Yeah, they are going to be separated. Mm hmm.

698
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:44,960
I don't want to, like I don't want to smell

699
00:40:45,039 --> 00:40:50,880
the movie. But I think this is a common issue. Yeah,

700
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:52,880
and I think a lot of people feel this way.

701
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,679
And I wanted you to like speak to that. That's

702
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:57,239
sober shift totally.

703
00:40:57,559 --> 00:41:00,679
Speaker 2: I think a lot of women, maybe not a but

704
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:05,440
I think some women are even afraid to quit drinking

705
00:41:05,599 --> 00:41:10,719
because this might happen. Right if I quit drinking I'm

706
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,320
really going to be confronted by these feelings that I've

707
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,400
I know I'm numbing. I want to numb these feelings

708
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,840
because these are very uncomfortable feelings. I'm annoyed by him.

709
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,760
Maybe then his drinking is going to bother me, right,

710
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,760
And I can't tell you, like if you quit drinking,

711
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,440
your partner will then follow suit. I can tell you

712
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:36,559
that you just never know what's going to happen. But yeah,

713
00:41:36,599 --> 00:41:39,280
I think it is common. You know, it's kind of

714
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,159
like after having a baby, and you know, around that

715
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,760
like I don't know three four or five week mark,

716
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,800
that you're just going to hate your husband and you're

717
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,199
gonna want to leave him, and like you're gonna be

718
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,599
like you are useless, like you're not like even if

719
00:41:55,599 --> 00:41:59,239
you have a great husband, right, Yeah, And I think

720
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:03,719
that these are really important feelings and these are messages

721
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,559
that we can I mean, therapy helps. Therapy helps a

722
00:42:07,559 --> 00:42:11,000
whole lot to help you kind of decipher. Okay, I

723
00:42:11,039 --> 00:42:13,639
hate my husband, Well, let me let me like dig

724
00:42:13,679 --> 00:42:16,519
into that. What do what do I hate? What does

725
00:42:16,559 --> 00:42:19,719
this hate mean? Like? Am I feeling like I need

726
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,719
a boundary? Like my boundary is no one touches me

727
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:27,079
after five pm. Okay, it's a hands like my kids,

728
00:42:27,119 --> 00:42:29,840
you know. But yeah, I'll like hug my husband when

729
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,119
he gets home, give them a smooch. But then I'm

730
00:42:32,159 --> 00:42:35,599
not I don't want to cuddle. I don't want to

731
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,800
like I have been like poked and prodded, especially you

732
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:42,559
know during break when they're off I have they hang

733
00:42:42,639 --> 00:42:46,840
on me like it starts to make my skin crawl.

734
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,199
And I don't want my people to make my skin crawl.

735
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,239
And so then I will say, you, guys, I am

736
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,960
touched out, like I just I need my space. This

737
00:42:57,119 --> 00:42:59,880
is my safe space around me, and no one's well

738
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,920
in it, right, And that sounds maybe bitchy, but that

739
00:43:05,079 --> 00:43:07,800
makes me a better Like that makes it so that

740
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,840
I'm not resentful of him. I think, you know, when

741
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,679
we are so used to kind of swallowing down our

742
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:21,639
needs and our feelings of the unpleasant ones that we're feeling,

743
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:27,159
that causes resentment, and like resentment is a huge sign

744
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:31,079
that you need a boundary. And so what's what I

745
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:33,920
would just try to with the help of the therapist

746
00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:36,000
or with your husband, if if you know you have

747
00:43:36,079 --> 00:43:40,480
that kind of relationship, like hey, like my husband I

748
00:43:40,519 --> 00:43:43,280
have these not so much anymore like we've got it,

749
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,880
you know, we're clicking along, but early on it's like, yeah,

750
00:43:47,079 --> 00:43:50,760
this is really really bothering me. Like I hate when

751
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:55,039
you have three beers at golf. I hate it. I'm

752
00:43:55,079 --> 00:43:58,119
fine with two. That was my boundary. I'm not okay

753
00:43:58,159 --> 00:43:59,320
with three beers.

754
00:44:00,079 --> 00:44:03,800
Speaker 1: And so and well tell me more. Yeah, because of

755
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,079
the way, because of how the change.

756
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,320
Speaker 2: I think, because of how I grew up with my

757
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:12,840
dad who drank. I think that then I'm you know,

758
00:44:13,039 --> 00:44:14,960
if you grew up with a parent who drinks, you're

759
00:44:15,039 --> 00:44:18,519
you're like super vigilant and like you're very You're just

760
00:44:18,679 --> 00:44:24,880
you're just I'm just like always very observing how people

761
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,960
are acting, especially when there's alcohol involved. And so then yes,

762
00:44:28,119 --> 00:44:32,079
I could really see a difference and no hard liquor

763
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,920
like because that I could feel like there was an

764
00:44:36,079 --> 00:44:39,239
edge that I didn't like. And I don't want an edge,

765
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,800
like especially if I'm sober. Like no, I just that

766
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:47,880
was a hard line for me. And so yeah, what

767
00:44:50,199 --> 00:44:54,760
so two beers and it was amstelt lights and he's

768
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,760
a huge guy, like he's like six one pounds, so

769
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:01,599
it's not like two. I was like okay, three I

770
00:45:01,599 --> 00:45:04,119
didn't like and it took a while. It was like

771
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:07,000
more than one conversation, these boundaries that we start to

772
00:45:07,039 --> 00:45:10,239
have with our partners. You know, I knew that I

773
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,760
kind of flipped the script on him, like I was like,

774
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:15,920
just one day, I was like, I'm done drinking. I

775
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,360
didn't ask him. I wasn't like, hey, what do you

776
00:45:19,519 --> 00:45:21,559
think if I was like, no, no, no, your input

777
00:45:21,639 --> 00:45:25,119
is not needed because this is for me and this

778
00:45:25,159 --> 00:45:29,079
is something I want to do. But it affected him, right,

779
00:45:29,159 --> 00:45:31,960
and so then I had to kind of work with that.

780
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,800
He now is sober like a year and four months

781
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:41,480
or something, which just right, you guys wild, like I

782
00:45:41,519 --> 00:45:47,960
would never have never have thought that's would have happened. Yeah,

783
00:45:48,119 --> 00:45:50,960
so he started hating you after he got sober. Oh

784
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:55,840
my god, I wonder, oh I should ask him. I'm

785
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:57,199
gonna ask him. I'm gonna have him back on the

786
00:45:57,199 --> 00:45:57,880
podcast not long.

787
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:02,079
Speaker 1: We all drink to tamp down some feelings, so and

788
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,159
having those feelings is uncomfortable and the person that you

789
00:46:05,199 --> 00:46:10,119
live with, maybe yeah, the cause of you know of

790
00:46:10,159 --> 00:46:13,079
some feelings that we're tamping down. I mean, and I

791
00:46:13,119 --> 00:46:15,679
can't tell you right, So then you just feel raw

792
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:20,320
irritation and me, I think the only way through that

793
00:46:20,599 --> 00:46:23,880
is to just have some conversations and you can just say,

794
00:46:24,599 --> 00:46:27,400
I don't know, I'm feeling like super irritable right now,

795
00:46:27,639 --> 00:46:31,880
and you know, like you said, make some boundaries or

796
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:33,840
just say like, hey, I need to be able to

797
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,079
tell you that I don't love it when you do

798
00:46:36,199 --> 00:46:39,360
this or when I or or just start asking for

799
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:43,880
what you need or yeah, listen, maybe you're going to

800
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:48,199
see some things that you don't like, or maybe you're

801
00:46:48,199 --> 00:46:52,119
going to give your spouse an opportunity to meet you

802
00:46:52,159 --> 00:46:54,840
where you're at and you're going to be pleasantly surprised.

803
00:46:55,679 --> 00:46:59,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the you know, that's the terrifying amazing

804
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,079
thing about this whole all of it, Like we get

805
00:47:02,119 --> 00:47:05,639
to we get to experience new things like I quit

806
00:47:05,679 --> 00:47:10,239
drinking when I was thirty nine, and like to just imagine,

807
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:15,000
like I didn't really know how to feel. If you

808
00:47:15,159 --> 00:47:19,199
have alcohol in your life on a consistent basis, feelings

809
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:23,400
are gonna feel scary and new and just that idea

810
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:27,239
of like, oh my god, at thirty nine, I'm learning

811
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,320
how to feel and I'm learning what that means and

812
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,760
all of that like learning how to be bored and like,

813
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,880
what do I want to do with my time now

814
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,360
and my brain power and my mental energy now that

815
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:46,840
I'm not thinking about alcohol instead? Yeah, and talk about alcohol. Oh,

816
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:49,639
I know, I have ideas create a podcast and then

817
00:47:49,639 --> 00:47:51,199
we'll just talk about alcohols.

818
00:47:52,519 --> 00:47:54,599
Speaker 1: Well, I do love talking you know.

819
00:47:54,639 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 2: Me too, It's so good. But yeah, it's it's terrifying,

820
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,599
but it's like the best kind of terrifying.

821
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 1: It really is the best kind of terrifying. Yeah, and

822
00:48:06,199 --> 00:48:08,480
you know, now is a great time. I'm not trying

823
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,840
to tell anybody what to do, obviously, but now's a

824
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,119
really good time to experiment with quitting drinking because there

825
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:20,920
is a lot of acceptance help Facebook groups, podcasts to

826
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:21,519
listen to.

827
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, yeah, you're not like a leopard now,

828
00:48:25,519 --> 00:48:28,119
No one's going to be like, wait, I'm sorry, what

829
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,480
Like it's a cool like you guys were making it cheic, Like,

830
00:48:31,559 --> 00:48:34,280
sobriety is chic and we're doing that. Yeah, Stephanie and

831
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,880
I have made it chic. Let me check, Yes, it

832
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,599
is chic. Okay, We've got it. So like yeah, now

833
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:43,519
is I mean I can't even imagine when you quit

834
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,000
and now even from when I quit, it's night and day.

835
00:48:47,159 --> 00:48:49,440
So like when you quit, there was there was none

836
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:49,760
of that.

837
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: I quit during blogging times. This was like this might

838
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,960
as well have been like the seventies because it was

839
00:48:56,039 --> 00:48:59,599
like the the world was just full of bloggers and

840
00:48:59,639 --> 00:49:03,760
they were all drinking and blog names like Mommy needs

841
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,920
her vodka or whatever, and I was just like, I

842
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,599
am going to be out of the girls club. But

843
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:15,440
it was honestly very surprising because a lot of people

844
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,760
were like, hell, yeah, I think I need to quit too,

845
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,880
and a bunch of people I don't want to take

846
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:22,559
all the credit.

847
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,639
Speaker 2: You should both, yeah, take take all of it.

848
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,559
Speaker 1: A lot of bloggers were like, oh shit, maybe I

849
00:49:28,559 --> 00:49:30,480
have a problem too, And then a bunch of us

850
00:49:30,519 --> 00:49:31,480
started to get sober.

851
00:49:32,119 --> 00:49:36,119
Speaker 2: See you guys, we have Stephan need to think for real. No,

852
00:49:36,199 --> 00:49:39,760
but it's true. Here's the thing, Like when I quit drinking,

853
00:49:40,199 --> 00:49:45,199
I wanted to see like badass women who were sober

854
00:49:45,679 --> 00:49:48,119
like I didn't. I wanted to see someone like me.

855
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:50,760
I wanted to see someone who I could look to

856
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:54,800
and be like, oh she's cool and she's not drinking

857
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:59,079
and that's you, and so like we do need yeah,

858
00:49:59,199 --> 00:49:59,559
thank you.

859
00:49:59,679 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 1: Well that it was I was the person who probably

860
00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:07,039
caused a lot of women to drink, so like hopefully,

861
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,199
but I'm the same way. I wanted to see women

862
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:13,880
who who are sober because they used to drink too

863
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,840
way too much or they fucked up, not because they

864
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:17,840
love Jesus, you know.

865
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:22,280
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, oh that's a whole other podcast I could talk.

866
00:50:24,119 --> 00:50:27,119
Speaker 1: But like not because they're pious and they believe that

867
00:50:27,159 --> 00:50:28,440
it's morally bad.

868
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,280
Speaker 2: I don't know, because we've seen some shit, you know,

869
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,960
We've always seen and done some shit and like we

870
00:50:35,079 --> 00:50:37,400
come out the other side. Yeah.

871
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,119
Speaker 1: So the book is The Sober Shift.

872
00:50:40,039 --> 00:50:41,039
Speaker 2: The Sober Shift.

873
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 1: The release date is September thirtieth, thirtieth. Yeah, tell you that, Yes,

874
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:50,280
September thirtieth. You can. It's on pre sale right now,

875
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:55,159
and Suzanne and her publisher and publicists will be so

876
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,239
happy if you just like hit that pre order.

877
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 2: Guys, I will. Oh and actually there's like incentives too.

878
00:51:02,679 --> 00:51:06,440
You will get uh, you'll get three mocktails, one that's

879
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,800
not in the book, because the book does include ten mocktails,

880
00:51:10,159 --> 00:51:11,559
and so you'll get one that's not in the book.

881
00:51:11,559 --> 00:51:13,840
And then also you'll be included in a zoom with

882
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,400
me at some time in October, and so I wanted

883
00:51:16,519 --> 00:51:18,800
to like hang out.

884
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:23,840
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, yeah right, So tell give us the You're

885
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:26,320
so the book available everywhere?

886
00:51:26,639 --> 00:51:29,639
Speaker 2: Yep, and you can. Yeah, it's available everywhere you find books.

887
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,280
The best place to go is go to Suzanne ware

888
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,480
dot com and then that's where you can see you'll

889
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,599
see where to get the book. You'll see like I'm

890
00:51:37,639 --> 00:51:39,760
going on a little tour, a.

891
00:51:39,679 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: Little na tour.

892
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:47,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll get I'll tell you, Okay, we're we're firming

893
00:51:47,199 --> 00:51:49,599
it up now. I'm going to so I have one

894
00:51:49,599 --> 00:51:52,239
here in Chicago and one net cut at the bookstall

895
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,719
that's on pub day, and then I'll be in Indie

896
00:51:55,760 --> 00:52:00,559
the next day. I'll get all all of the too.

897
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:09,400
I believe, Boston, d C, Santa Monica to Zibby. I know, kid,

898
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,800
you come, I'll tell you. Okay, hopefully it's.

899
00:52:12,639 --> 00:52:15,599
Speaker 1: Not on a Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday.

900
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 2: You know it is. I think it is, of course, Sure.

901
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:19,280
Speaker 1: It's not on a Sunday.

902
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:23,199
Speaker 2: Oh it's not. I think they're all either of Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.

903
00:52:24,559 --> 00:52:27,119
Speaker 1: We'll find out. Oho I teach. I teach my writing

904
00:52:27,159 --> 00:52:30,760
class on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. But from five to seven.

905
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:34,000
But we'll see, we'll see. Okay, maybe it's a week

906
00:52:34,039 --> 00:52:34,519
in between.

907
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe it's on a Monday. That one might be

908
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:38,559
on a Monday.

909
00:52:38,639 --> 00:52:39,559
Speaker 1: Well, then I'm in.

910
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,000
Speaker 2: I'll tell Okay, good, I'll tell you. And then one

911
00:52:42,039 --> 00:52:47,000
more seattle exciting Yeah, I know, Oh my gosh.

912
00:52:47,639 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 1: All right, we'll go pick up the book. You can.

913
00:52:50,559 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 2: They can follow you on the instagram, follow me on

914
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:55,719
the instagram at susay and where.

915
00:52:55,519 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 1: I okay, and I will put that in the episode description.

916
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,039
And you also have the Sober mom is.

917
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 2: A Sober mom life yep, the Sober Mom Life podcast.

918
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 1: And the podcast is the Sober Mom Life. I have

919
00:53:06,559 --> 00:53:10,760
been on it. It's an amazing podcast. Thank you so yeah,

920
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:13,159
you have all the things. Thank you so much. I

921
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:15,159
so helpful to some people.

922
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 2: I do too. I hope so too. And just know

923
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,400
you're not alone. That's and that it's so much better

924
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:24,800
on this side. It's just it just all right, thanks everybody.

925
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:29,320
Speaker 1: Bye, it's done. Good