Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Siko's I am Dan Valley coming
at you as always with my certified Dan Tabia's co host,
mister Grant Hughes, who I have an incredibly difficult question for.
But before I ask the incredibly difficult question, you need
to ask the question everyone wants to be able to do.
Mister Hughes, how the heck are you?
Speaker 2: I'm hanging in, Dan, That's usually the harder question for me.
I'm curious what you think is a more difficult question
than how are you doing? You know how I love
that question.
Speaker 1: One. I'm doing fine. Thank you for not asking?
Speaker 2: What's my hit rate on asking you how you're doing?
After you asking me? Is it like five percent?
Speaker 1: What's the didn't we we threw a cur you didn't know,
you're a great friend. We did the we had you
do the intro once randomly, I don't know why, and
you asked that time. So I would say at least
zero point five percent of asking.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to try to bring that number up,
just not today.
Speaker 1: I am doing I'm doing okay. You know, I took
a two week break from the gym and I have
like two or three days left. Uh, and I'm starting
to get I mean, you know, I've had we talked
about this last week, but I'm starting to get a
little okay, Like how do people not go to the
gym like all the time? Like I my body does
feel better, like it's obviously healed a lot of kind
of just like these not chronic but just like soreness
that I've had for years because I've never taken an
extended break. But my god, I'm about I think my
wife is ready to like, is all right? You need
to get this mf R out of the house, Like, yeah,
my difficult question for you, though, Grant, And maybe it's
not difficult, but I do think it's worth a discussion.
Who is the second best team in the NBA? Assuming
and maybe we start here. I'm just gonna default to
the Boston Celtics. Until forever, I was kind of concerned
about their defense for a minute, It's like, oh, now
they're sixth. I know Jalen Brown is injured, but what
the fuck does it matter? Like they're just killing every
Their offense is just a five alarm fire, a five
alarm inferno. So I defer to them as the best
team in the league because they don't have KP yet
and they're still arguably the best team in the league.
Speaker 2: I think that's right, although I was having I was
thinking about this the other day, where you know, and
we'll get to them. There are some teams that you know,
the Boston's numbers so far, just like well, that's the
best team. But but like there are some teams that
haven't proved what Boston has that are there's there are arguments.
We will make them and discuss them, but I find
myself defaulting to like the cliche of well, I know,
I just know that Boston can do it. And we're
talking about the best team in the league. It's like,
well who can win the championship? And just having seen
Boston do it, okay, I just that's that gets benefit
of the doubt. I wonder if that's right now because
we've had six years that you haven't had a repeat champion,
so like apparently now having done it doesn't count for
what it used to. And that's even you know, the
six year sample is small, so like, oh am I overweghing.
I just wonder what you think about that, Like do
you do the same thing where you default to like
I have seen that happen. So I believe that it
can happen again more readily than I can believe some
of these other teams that haven't proved anything can get
the first one. You know what I mean? Do you
like that's a weird fall in.
Speaker 1: Recent years, ever since the Kevin Durant Earraw Warriors, And
maybe this is more to do with the landscape, I've
kept more of an open mind when it comes to
I picked the Nuggets to win the championship the year
they won the championship, right, And I was scared to
do it because this is the most popular podcast in
the industry, and I knew people were gonna get mad
when they heard that. Take Yeah, and I got the
point was, well, if you actually believe this, So I'm
more open minded to it. However, do you ever also
does this feeling of well, I doubted. I'm gonna use
Boston as an example. I was skeptical of the offseason
they had in twenty twenty three. I thought there'd be
a playmaking deficit. I didn't trust KP's performance with Washington
or his ability to stay healthy, so I came in
inherently skeptical. I did not give them the due credit
that they deserved at the time. And so I'm maybe
my overcorrecting. Do you ever find yourself doing that for
lie doubt a dem and they just ran rough shot?
Speaker 2: Yeah, they can't. Don't do it again. Can't do it again.
Speaker 1: So I mean that would dovetail nicely with this discussion anyway,
because by asking who's the second best team in the NBA,
even if you think that BOSS is not the best team,
well then just apply this same discussion we're about to
have then to this. And I do believe and maybe
I think coming in the candidates for this would have
been Minnesota, Dallas, and OKAC as the primary candidst Maybe
some people would have said, could the Knick sneak in there?
Could the Sixers sneak in there? Spoiler alert? The Sixers
cannot sneak in there? Can the Bucks sneak in there?
Spoiler alert? They cannot? And so it feels like it
was Dallas, Minnesota, and OKAC and maybe some people were
holding out hope for Denver. I still think that the Dallas, Minnesota,
OKAC teams are the ones with some of the best
cases and that I do think OKAYC probably has the strongest.
This is more so my way of directing us towards
the Cleveland Cavaliers. As grant, they are the second best
team in the East, right you just you can't undefeated
teams that we record this number one, But too, they're
the only team in the league that's top five in
offense and defense. And by the way, as a side note,
Boston is coming to that, they're sixth in defense now
to go along, I think they have the leagu's best
offense at this moment. But before we sort of like
dig into just the individual performances we've seen, particularly from
their big four, do they have a case too? Honestly,
it seems like it's we're pitting them against OKAC because
Minnesota and Dallas. I still I don't Dallas has had
somewhat weird start, and I've somehow never been more confident
in them, But it does feel like I would default OKAC.
We just recorded an extensive segment on their defense. They're
not at full strength yet, they don't have a backup
big at the moment, and yet they're just have the
best defense of all time. So I'm curious as to
before digging into the Cavaliers a little bit more, do
you think that they have an actual case or worth
a discussion and relative to what we know OKAC or again,
even Dallas Minnesota.
Speaker 2: Can be I think they definitely do. I mean and
and like kudos to I know we both I think
I think we both viewed them as like why can't
they just be number two in the East before the
season started? So like, I think they are in the discussion.
I but sort of like the reason this is an
interesting topic is that they feel like a weird team
to nominate for the quote unquote second best slot, right,
And I wonder why that. Maybe that's before we get
into the all all the validating information to behind this point,
like what are the reasons that it seems weird to say, oh, Cleveland,
despite being eight zero is actually the second best team?
Like what are what if any reservations do you have
before we get into like, well, actually, here's why this
might be the case.
Speaker 1: Is it just I don't know that I have any
reservations other than I would make the case that Oka
see when they have Hartenstein is just going to be
better and more dynamic. But our concerns about their offense
in terms of do they have enough shot creation outside
of Shay, they've a little bit, it's so early that
it might not matter, and their half court offense is
ticked up since we last were talking about them. I
honestly think that that should be the only reason that
no Okac is just as the example is just better.
But do you think that the reservations at large are
about what happened in Cleveland last season by the way
they were injured in still almost won fifty games, or
is it do people remember what they looked like in
the playoffs that first season against the Knicks after having
a great regular season, or is it this idea that well,
there's still just a little lopsided because they have two
bigs and they have two small guards, and so I'm
not going to not that I'm not going to acknowledge,
but we're not going to invest as much in how
they're performing right now. We're inherently skeptical because of what
we've seen. I honestly it feels like the reason would
be people are just remembering the twenty twenty three playoffs, like, well,
this is how that ended, even after they looked great together,
So why should we believe that they're at this level
just below the Boston Celtics or let alone at the
level of the boss out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you played the hits there. I think
the all of those reasons are like they factor in
in some and in some to some degree, I also
think there's and and we can shoot them down, but
there's the other things that give I think me and
some other people pause as we discussed this, is like,
well they just this cap seem just doesn't seem to
have Oh there's no there's no big wing, right, Like
that's that's what everybody wants. There's no one in that
in between the too small and the two big setup
they have, so like therefore you're just going to be
at a disadvantage. And it's like, well you have evan
mobile that can guard anybody, and it's not like okay,
so the Jokic led nuggets like who was there? You know,
elite two way wing like that, you know they they
had role players there like MPJ and I guess Aaron
Gordon not really a wing. And then I don't know,
Murray's like, there's just no, they didn't have a Superstar wing, right,
So like, yeah, Superstar Wars maybe two ways is they
They definitely did have a two way wing and they
don't anymore. But I think I think there's a lot
of those those lingering questions or like I don't know,
potential perceived frailties that like don't really apply anymore. And
so having said that, now I think we can get
into like some of the numbers or however you'd like
to start discussing, you know, why there is a case
for the Cavs as number two.
Speaker 1: My goal then would be to convince you that they
either have a better case than you thought, or that
you're ready to pick them as the second best team.
In me, I want to convince myself yeah, yeah, because
I get accused of being a thunder homer all the
time by commenters, which is I love it. I'm not
gonna I love it like that. To me, that's great.
But so the biggest thing that has stood out to
me in terms of like the overall team performance, already
mentioned their top five in offensive defense, and Boston is
the only team that's really right now coming remotely close
to joining that fray. But one of the things that
stands out to me is that there are only four
teams that are playing a fast their pace after opponent
makes right now That is up from twenty seventh for
Cleveland last season, and they did a good job varying
the pace, especially during some of their staggered lineups or
injury periods. So this is a team that is just no,
they're not the fastest team in the NBA, but they
can play at all these different cadences, and so that
stands out. I think I've struggled, and I'll be curious
to see where you land on this. Individually. I think
Darius Garland might be standing out to me more than
Evan Mobley right now. And let's not say Evan Mobley.
There's been real growth there. But when you look at
Darius Garland, he's shooting the three ball well, seems very
comfortable working at the ball, but he is. He's been
super efficient. He's scoring one point one to five points
out of the pick and roll right now. He's cut
down on his turnovers a little bit. Even though it
feels like he has the ball less, that's still a
good thing. You watch this guy on drives this year.
He is just zipping past people and that has been
huge for his efficiency around the rim. He's up to
sixty five percent this year. He was at fifty nine
percent last year, which was actually, I believe above his
career average. I would have to double check that though.
And the other thing is just like the scoring in
those situations, Grant out of everyone who's put in fifty
points off drives this year, no one has as many
assists as Darius Garland. And here is just to the
company he's keeping. Where this is everyone who has right
now has scored at least fifty points and dished fifteen
assists off drives. There's Darius, Sga, Trey and Jaw. That's
absurd company to keep. When you're yes, I do think
Darius Garland is playing like how people would envision a
floor general would play. But you have these other two
options on the court in Donovan Mitchell, who's just your
best frum scratch creator, although that might be tied Jerome
because he's just getting buckets right now as well, when
you also have Evan Mobley, and so the growth or improvement,
however you want to frame it. For Darius Garland, I
think he's been absolutely massive for this team because he's
an outlet when he doesn't have the ball, and this
stuff he's doing with the ball that year, it's smarter
it's more efficient, it's crisper, and to me, the biggest
difference when I see him is never mind like where
the volume's at, the way he looks when he's attacking
going downhill is just monstrous. And it doesn't it doesn't
matter what lineup it's in. It feels like, yeah, there's
some lineups where there's more space, but he's just getting
through traffic and getting by guys anyway right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny like the path forward or the path
to Cleveland getting to where it sort of is now
had always been at least among us, And I said
it a million times, like, oh mobiley just has to
become their best player, Like that's how this happens, right,
and like he's made strides. We you know, that's been
a real topic of discussion throughout the season. But the
other way that like we don't really like, I don't know,
consider as much because it's not as it's not as
sexy to say, is like, what if like a couple
of their you know, top four guys just get better
and it doesn't have to be like, oh Mobile has
to be transcendent. It can be. Garland improves to this degree,
which by the way, like it's clearer than ever that
he just wasn't right last year because it interrupted an
upward trajectory that his career was like very clearly on.
And now he's in his age twenty five season and
is doing exactly what you would hope a player that age,
with his early career track record would do. So him
leveling up a little bit, Jared Allen super consistent, maybe
even a little better this year, Mobiley taking a small
to moderate step forward, and Mitchell being fairly consistent, making
forty percent of his threes. All that stuff like it's
kind of Garland has been to me the most. I
don't know, Mobil's been impressive, but like the Garland piece
of it matters a ton because he's just giving them
that second like plus plus creator. Hopefully that holds up
because some of the drive stuff you mentioned is really
interesting to me because if you had a knock on Garland,
I think in the past, when healthy, it was that
like he's just kind of too small and he can't
get to all the passing angles he needs to on drives.
Like I guess that's not an issue anymore. I guess
he's gotten that much quicker and seeing the floor that
much better to where he's just like he's a massive
asset like that in an area that I had concerns
about him, like nitpicky ones because he's obviously really good,
but like the passing in a crowd and like being
able to make you know, Luca and Lebron can make
insane passes in jokics because they can just see angles
and access angles smaller guys can't. For him to be
doing what he's doing driving the ball is like hard
to overstate how it's like profound of an impact that
can have on an offense, and.
Speaker 1: It's made I think, in combination what Mobley is doing,
it's made life easier on Donovan Mitchell, who he's still
had his moments where it's okay, he's trying to do
too much, but we saw this last year. Part of
that was injuries and we saw his role shift. He
is better able to read what version of himself the
Cavs need, I think than ever before. And so when
he's not responsible, just in a vacuum for as much
as the playmaking, yeah, he still has to generate a
ton of his own shots, but like that's probably contributed
to he's been I guess he's played like in terms
of a year's long span, this is the best defensive
version of the image we've ever seen, And so I
wonder how much of that you know, we talk about
staminas is it's just like ethereal, but stamina matters. And
so if he doesn't have to do theoretically as much
as a passer in addition to scoring on offense, what
is that going to do for him defensively? I would
have to think it does quite a bit. And I
think my only note on him, because he's largely the
same player is what I said before, Whereas he's very
good at toggling between existences by possession in a way
that he wasn't in Utah because he was never really
afforded that luxury. And it's kind of tough to overstate
that where it's, oh, we have you mentioned this? With
Garland and the creation we have not one but two again,
Ty Jerome has just been absolutely bonkers. Three alternative even
Caris LeVert has been absolutely great. He feels I don't
know how much of that is playing with Kenny Atkinson.
Do I expect him to shoot a trillion percent on
pull up jumpers forever? No, absolutely not. But he is
someone else who it's just like he feels more plug
and play than ever. And then if you look and it's, oh,
this team has real depth to it, to where Ty Jerome,
this is the most outlandish stat I've seen this season.
He just leads the league in points per possession out
of the pick and roll one point five two. I
don't care how early it is. That's just absolutely nuts.
And so this team has real depth to it, and
I think Donovan Mitchell being able to fit very well,
very comfortably into that larger context is a big deal.
I don't think you and I ever had too many
questions about that. But this is someone who is kind
of each season, year over years, maybe had to shift
the way that he's played, and now he's just to
me better. It's more of just an aesthetics or a
feel thing where it's, oh, he's just better at reading
not the game, but the game within the game of
what the Cavs need from him in that moment, that night, whatever.
Speaker 2: And I think for him that's an especially valuable skill
slash development, whatever you want to call it. Because I
never got comfortable with the idea of Donovan Mitchell Colan
best player on a championship team, like, you know, conventionally
because just you know, his defensive impact wasn't there, Like
he's undersized for that role. Great scorer, has like plenty
of amazing playoff stretches, but I never quite got there
where like all things being equal, Ken Donovan Mitchell be
the best player on a title winner, I don't think
he can unless you have a team like this where
there's like three other guys. It's kind of a Boston
theory and some of the same questions that always applied
to Jason Tatum, where Okay, no, if you just have
a conventional contender, Mitchell's probably not quite good enough. But
if you have these other guys that make it so
he doesn't have to be the be all end all
every night and he can sort of diagnose what's necessary
from him, then like, yeah, that picture does clarify a
little bit, and it's sort of that's the theory of
this Cabs team, I think maybe, which is a good
thing to sort of focus on as we talk about him.
It can be any one of those four guys that
can be the best player on the team that night,
and it doesn't have to be it's they're not like,
they're not going to live and die with Mitchell because
Garland might have a huge game and they're not gonna
live and die with their offense if either of those
guards are off because Evan Mobley and Jared Allen are
great to like they have all these you.
Speaker 1: Know ways that you get by mobilium and Jared Allen
just yeah, it's or vice versa. How does that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not like a true hierarchical here's the alpha
and here's you know, everybody on down the line. It's
there's there's you know, two to three guys every night
that might just be making the biggest difference. And I
think we view that a lot of times when talking
about like championship equity as a negative because you've got
to have the guy. But I don't view it as
a negative in this instant if you have.
Speaker 1: Four, what's better having one top ten player or and
then another top fifty player or just having four top forty,
top three. I don't know. I don't know where Jared
Allen ranks in the hierarchy, even Mobley gets, but right
now the Cavs very clearly have at least two top
twenty five guys in the NBA at least.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and so far in the early going, just
this season, it's like probably three.
Speaker 1: That leads me to the Evan Mobley discussion, where I've
always been a little bit higher on his offense. I
think you have a lot of Cavs fans. I still
would like to see him take more threes. He's at
about two game he's been hitting him. But I never
I don't want to say I didn't subscribe to the
idea that featuring him more on offense meant you had
to throw it down low. But I always thought that
was is that what it meant? That was what I
was most curious is what does it look like if
you're giving Evan Mobley more agency over the offense and
this version of the Cavs it has looked like, yeah,
there's more of the grab and go, like the full
length of the floor stuff, but it's just the face
up stuff he's gone from. So last year, Grant he
was at I want to get this right, five point
six drives per thirty six minutes. He's up to ten
point seven this year. And the big takeaway for me
from that is he's not super he'shooting like forty seven
percent in those situations, which is it's fine, he's not
passing a ton out of those situations, but it inherently
puts extra pressure on set defenses. And I think it's
also showcased and we've seen this even after he's setting screens.
He is so much I'd like to know if there
was a measure of how much stronger he actually is.
But he is so much because he doesn't necessarily look
like a lot stronger, but he is so much more comfortable,
so much better at facing contact, going through contact, getting
still being aggressive in spite of that contact. He's averaging
one point one to three points per possession as the
role man. And again we're seeing like this isn't a
Cavs team when you have him and Jared Allen on
the court and he's your screener, like Jared Allen's kind
of off to the side, and in theory should make
you easier to defend. He's had some tough finishes in
those situations, so to have a career high mark in
points per possession as the roleman, that to me has
shown and along with the drives, like this is someone
who is more comfortable working within the confines of Cleveland's
half court offense, if defense are gonna collapse on him,
if he's gonna face traffic never before now, I still
think there are levels he needs to explore. The playmaking,
like from the face up spots, getting going downhill, making
quicker decisions that way. I think he's capable of it.
Will we ever see more of it, We'll have to see.
But the minutes that he's like to him, the staggering
minutes where you're gonna pair him with uh, like, they're
just absolutely slaughtering people right now. And that's the This
is just a fun aside. Funniest side is Dan Wade
didn't play the other night, so they started as Aga Korro.
They're starting five on the season grant, so it's those
four plus team way they have a negative net rating.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna bring that up as like in.
Speaker 1: Theory they Max Strews hasn't played yet. They haven't even peaked,
is my point. And it's not Oh, Evan Mobley can
continue to get better. Another fun aside too, Jared Allen
leads this team in minutes per game. He's the only
one averaging thirty. So that's just I don't expect that
the whole all year. But so you're gonna make it
through the first what ten games or so of the
season where only one of your players is to average
thirty minutes per game. Kevin Durant would kill to have
teammates like that. I feel like at this point in
the front court, so I look at this team just
the macro of it all. It's it's deep, it's functional depth.
And yes there will be tough. They're not gonna if
they go eighty two and oh, I mean congratulations, it's
not happening. I the reason I'm asking you now this question,
this is where we if you have to we mentioned
the other teams. I don't have an answer. Which team
is supposed to be the second best team in the
East other than them? Like that discussion is no longer
mentally stimulating for me, and I know Nick Sahans will
probably be. We need time to come together. The offense
is still third even though no it's there's no depth
there I have. This is why you should join our discord.
I don't know if you saw the message where I've
just been sitting on a thought that I'm still not
even ready to share, like super publicly there's gonna come
a time where I might be prepare to say some
preposterously spicy things about where the Knicks are at, despite
with some of them, because I don't think they've shown
enough and I feel confidence saying this. You don't get
to default. The Knicks is the biggest threat to the
Boston Celtics in the Eastern Conference, and you certainly can't
say that it's still even gonna be healthy enough. What
have you seen from Milwaukee that would make you want
to pick Milwaukee? Orlando loses, Palo Bankaro, the Miami Heat.
Just have I feel confidence anything? They have zero identity.
They have zero identity right now. The only answer is
the CAFs. You don't get to talk me into any
other team as of right now, which is why I'm
asking you, like, would you be prepared? But how how
sweet are you now to say, you know what, they
might be the second best team in me? Or is
it just man? The thunder exists? I can't get there.
Speaker 2: No, I definitely there is no counter argument. If you're
talking about today, I'd like, that's just the stats are
what they are, that they're health, the calves are healthy,
they're the depth is like shockingly goods over all, like
everybody up and down, like carrosel Vert's making half his threes. Uh,
sam Merrill's making thirty nine percent of Chorros make They're
all just like.
Speaker 1: Every Georgia row is invading Doc Rivers's sleep. Doc Rivers
is thinking about it, Like Doc Rivers mentioning Sam Merrill
a conference.
Speaker 2: I will I and I think, like, cause I guess
you would, you would say, well, what part of Cleveland,
like do you not believe in? Like, we definitely believe
in the defense. We just know that the defense is
going to be great and the offense you have more
questions about. But if Garland's going to play like this
and Mobiley is going to sustain this like moderate step forward,
let alone like continue to expand his game, then I get, yeah,
you have Donovan Mitchell, Like how bad is the offense
going to be? There's not really like an obvious weakness.
I still get hung up on, like, well, what if
the Knicks like figure it out, you know, and in
a playoff series just having Brunson and you know, I'm
hesitant to say that, like the Cavs have the best
chance to meet Boston in the Conference finals, for example,
but they're definitely going to have the number two seed,
if not number one, So like that helps, you know,
I'm one hundred percent on board with at the moment
and through these you know, first couple of weeks in change,
they've definitely been the second best team in the East
and second best team in the league potentially Okay See
is still just I don't know what to think about them.
Speaker 1: The fair thing might be to say then that they
to me, because I'm still picking okay See over them.
Spoiler alert. I think the Caaves have been impressive, but
it's going to be that I've seen more Okac's body
of work, and it feels like they're leaving there's more
on the table from the then this might be close
to the peak version of the Calves even with maybe
I'm wrong, even without Max Strews, but you would have
to really sell me hard on them not being the
third best team league right now, and that's with Minnesota
and Dallas. I'm super optimistic on still at the moment,
I don't know. I don't even remember where we put
Cleveland our standings. I know we acknowledge they could be
the second best team East. I don't think either of
us predicted it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, though you know the thing maybe this is this
is what's making sense in my brain now that we've
talked it through. It's like the calves. The best thing
you can say if you're trying to be critical is
I don't know if what they're doing will sustain in
the playoffs. Like, okay, sure, with teams like the Knicks
and some and the other ones you mentioned, it's like
they're not even doing anything well enough now for us
to ask the question of like can that hold up
in the playoffs? Like they haven't even reached the threshold
where of the calves where it's like this is going great,
So okay, let's just if they could keep it up.
Nobody else has even gotten to the point where we
ask can they keep it up? Other than Boston in
the East. It's like so the Knicks in the you
know whatever, Pacers, Magic Sixers, Bucks, like on down the line.
It's like, at least show us the first thing. At
least show us that you are a theory of how
this is gonna work successfully, so we can then question
it like over a long stretch of games and post
seasons stuff like that. That's the differentiator. So far. To
me more than anything is that we get it. Calves
are great. Just the only question is can they continue
to be Nobody else is great.
Speaker 1: I'm even wondering, and this is in the best spot
of being and I we'll have to move on from here.
We spend way too much time with the Cavs slash.
But who's the second best team in the NBA? Let
us know in the comments if you're still listening or
in our discord, and if you're not in there linked
to that's in the podcast and YouTube description. I would
have a questions about their offense, but they can also
they can stagger more. I think when I was looking,
I think, well, we've played like half of his possessions
alongside Jared now at this point, and so if you
get into a point where the offense is in persisting,
like you can play the heavily stack or a card
and that might be the I think they've done a
good job playing those two together. But like Evan Mobley
shooting forty seven percent on two is right now when
Jared Allen's on the floor, that's way lower than it
was last year. But it's just like, oh, they still
have this up like they have more room to explore,
but that would be the fair I think doubt is
does the offense because, by the way, Evan Mobley might
just be the defensive player of the year right now.
I know Wemby exists, and it's weird to say that
with OKAC kind of floating around, but it's that feels
like more if you had to pick the best, like
the most valuable defender on OKAC is chet Holmgren, I
guess the award would go to Probably it's more of
like a feels like a by committee thing because they're
just like so small and scrappy and chaotic and for
neetic as hell. So the causes of right now were
one of the like two or three just eleven or
maybe just one of the two eleven of they are
they the only because we have qualms about Okayc's offense.
There's been some weird stuff with Boston at points, but
they are one of the two or three teams that's
just like no notes, right yeah, supposed to pick at
and be like, oh this because what is not Okay
caris LeVert Ty Jerome, who, by the way, eighty one
percent of Tijerome's buckets are going on assisted right now,
just and he's still shooting the hell out of it.
Maybe those guys they're shop making pulls back, but like
there's calves have margin for error right for that to
happen and still just be fine.
Speaker 2: Yep. No, there just aren't that many teams that are
in a position like Cleveland where it's where you just
have to start looking for like, well, this will change
for the worst, and that's why they're not good. You know,
they just have done everything you could ask to this point.
Speaker 1: Which team did you want to talk about next? On
this edition of the Bounce Around, Mister.
Speaker 2: Hugheston, We're gonna really go the other way a little
bit here. I want to talk some Wizards. And this
was you know, we were joking trying to decide what
to talk about today when we were texting. I guess, yes,
yesterday the day before, and we're both thinking Wizards. So
that's one a problem because group think is a terrible disease.
But it feels necessary and I want to couch this
first in like Washington's Tune four. They got the worst
defense in the league. They're twenty ninth in net rating,
Like this is just this team is bad, but that's
one kind of the point and to the expectation given
like where they are post Bradley Beal and finally turning
into like a functional rebuild. So I want to start
with the biggest difference maker on the team, which is
Jordan Poole, Defensive Player of the Year candidate, who is
hilariously averaging four stocks per game, which is like third
in the league. That's insane. No, we're not going to
talk about Jordan Poole. That's the last I'm gonna mention him.
Speaker 1: Probably, Well, Jordan Poole has been better a little bit
of a corner at the end of last year, and
it feels like most of that is.
Speaker 2: Just persisting, right, Yeah, No, he's been better hard it
would hard to be. It would be difficult to be
worse than he was for most of last year. But
this is about the three rookies that are playing a
ton and uh, the second year player that like this
Core I don't know. I've heard Core four on the
broadcast the other day, so I'm going to just go
with it. But it's bilall cool. But I'm gonna say
I'm I have been saying, Kola Bali, have you been
saying Kouli Bali I have it's kulibali and that's just
way harder to say, and I don't love it, but
I'm going to really try to get it to just
make that Bali kulabalie like emphasis on the last syllable.
So he's kinda he's the most known of these four commodities,
obviously because he's got a year of experience. But and
he's the guy that we've kind of been in the
bag for, you know, really since he was barely into
his rookie year, just because of the potential of the size,
the sort of black box, like I don't know what's
what's in there, what are we going to get? He's
just you know, he's coming off now as we're recording
this his worst game of the year. He was three
eleven against the Warriors, still averaging almost eighteen points a game,
almost six boards, two and a half assists, making fifty
five percent of his shots, forty four percent from deep,
eighty percent of his free throws. That's a sixty seven
percent true shooting percentage, which for him, for anybody, that's
phenomenal for a guy that you're like, I don't know
about the offense, Like that's ridiculous at that level, at
that volume. Despite that, he's still to me, I'm telling
me what you think about this a guy that like
has so much room to expand what he's doing offensively
because his usage rate is like just under eighteen percent,
so he's just like not taking up a lot of possessions.
It just the athleticism, the size, the flashes of like,
oh my god, he can handle the ball in the
pick and roll. He's become a better cutter, his spot
up has improved dramatically. Like there's just so much unexplored
territory with him. And that's really I think that's where
you start when you talk about the Wizards. There's these
other guys we'll get into, but like, isn't would you
still view him as like, this is like the guy
if there is one at this early juncture for the Wizards.
Speaker 1: I think I would. And part of that too is
and I don't think you mentioned this is so you
mentioned all just the offense that they've tapped into and
maybe not tapped into just yet. And it's also okay,
now you go guard the best player on the other team, and.
Speaker 2: Right the defense is the given we like, I think
that's well understood about him already.
Speaker 1: It just is the floridnavigation on defense and the ability
to just I don't again, he's someone who looks a
little bit stronger and he's to continue to get stronger.
But oh no, you go defend like smaller point of
attack guards or just go guard these bigger power power
wings and he's going to do it. And it's just
I know, the Wizard's defense isn't good. I think, what
is it thirtieth? I don't care because when you watch him,
it's okay, am I going to predict defensive player of
the year. No, But is this someone who can kind
of be the infrastructure of your perimeter defense? I would say.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and these can be noisy. But to that point,
if you just break it down by time spent defending,
his most common matchups this year, in order are Trey Young,
Jason Tatum, Jimmy Butler, Donovan Mitchell, and Steph Curry. Those
are the top five. So these are tiny samples, right,
But when you said, like him against smaller guards so far,
to me, that is where he is like an A
plus difference maker. So Trey Young is two for fifteen
on the season, when Kolbally is asgnated as his primary defender,
Steph is one of seven. Like his length and mobility
against smaller guards is just death. So like, if you're
thinking of the theory of the Wizard's longer term, you've
got the guy that you can just throw at the
primary creator. I'd like if it's a wing, sure, but
if it's a smaller guard, I think he can just
a limit. He can just erase. That guy is what
it's starting to look like on now. He's he's a
second year player, he's young, he's inconsistent, but the outlines
of like, okay, this is how our defense will potentially
be built. Alex Sarr behind him, we'll talk about him.
It's looking like a at least at least a very
good shot blocker. But he can coolibal. He can just
be the guy that takes your best offensive player out
of the game. And and like, I don't know that
that's that's a pretty powerful asset to have if you're
trying to like put together a team and just imagine
what all these you know, sub twenty one year olds
are going to look like down the line.
Speaker 1: I think most people would still default to that the
guy has yet to be drafted, and that might be
true given where what this draft class is projected to
look like. But to be here and kind of like
the overarching question will get to is whether the Washington
Wizards are ahead of schedule. But to be here and
like cool bai is that's a real answer right now.
And I actually don't think maybe you and I haven't
fully appreciated it, but I think writ large, this isn't
fully appreciated in general when you're talking just anyone who
follows the entire league gets the Wizards are kind of
still waiting on finding that person, and you had to
really read into I don't know that either of us
we would have said, Okay, sure he's their best chance
at having that guy last year. I think now he
might have reached the point you can actively just predict
that there's a not inignificant chance that their best player
of the future isn't someone they've yet to draft or
that they've yet to acquire, like, it might just be him.
Speaker 2: And I think at the very very least you have,
if you have watched him at all, you've got to
say that guy's going to be a phenomenal role player
on a really good team. Like that feels like and
you know that's that's immensely valuable too, right, Like that's
that having that kind of floor to forget the ceiling,
which we both think is super high. That's so when
you do get the guy, if you're of the mind
that he's not there yet, GLOBALI just fits perfectly next
next to like whatever superstar guy you have not yet
drafted or traded for or Whatever's so there's still three
other guys, these three rookies they've got this year, Kishan, George,
Alex Aar and Bob Carrington. Just first of all, you
love like how spread across the positional spectrum all those
guys are. It just fits, you know, like none of
these guys overlap with each other really at all. And
they have such differing skill sets. I mean, we can
go in any order. I think George is probably the
least known and has so far been the least productive probably.
Speaker 1: And he really had a lot in and I'm like,
he's got it.
Speaker 2: I've got it.
Speaker 1: There's more ball skills to him, more physicality to him
than I thought. I think the shots will eventually start
to fall. And he's another guy that's been competing on
defense where he clearly doesn't have the ceiling for them,
uh feeling that Blah Kolabai does on the defensive end.
But he's just someone who feels when you talk about
who's going to be a superstar role player, this is
someone who feels and we're getting ahead of our skis
here because he's fewer than ten games into his career.
But I just he feels so plug and play and
it's gonna be able to do like jack of all trades,
master of none type shit, and that as you're what
fourth or fifth starter at some point and I'm not.
I don't like saying injuries were blessing in disguise, but
they had that they don't have to. But they've been
starting him ever since the Kyle Kuzma groin injury, and
I don't know if he's gonna give that spot back.
Speaker 2: I mean that I have the same thought of like, well, man,
I guess you better just trade Kuzman now because I
don't know that you're gonna I mean, like Georgia's had
one and a half good games, I would say so far,
like just statistically, like he had his twenty pointer against
the Warriors, that was Washington his last game. As we're
recording this, uh Draymond Green talked about him and all
the other young guys after the fact and was like
they got our respect because George was just going at
him and like both competitively and like verbally, not always
the best idea, but I mean for a.
Speaker 1: Rookie, I favorite.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I'm on board. Like you're you're the Washington Wizards.
You have been a laughing stock for like quite some time.
Talk you talk like I think I think that's a
that's a positive, But you said it like the numbers
aren't really there. He's he's averaging like eight points four boards,
a couple of assists. The shooting has been terrible all
in all, but he did you know he got up
seventeen threes against the Warriors, made six of them. There
were five in a row that went down. Uh. Just
the feel is there, the versatility, the positional size you want,
just all that stuff is really there for him.
Speaker 1: It is I forget about that.
Speaker 2: It's it's a deeper cut.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: We started with a deeper cut, So we should move
to do you want to talk about sar or Carrington?
Which pick your points.
Speaker 1: I have stronger thoughts about Carrington to this point, Oh,
let's let's go with Sar.
Speaker 2: So Sar to me, having watched a lot of tape
in the last few days and just kind of marrying
that with the pre draft scouting reports and what we
saw the real lows of the preseason and summer league
and stuff. Statistically, I do feel confident that he's just
gonna block shots. Five point three percent block rate. That's
ninety seven percent of among biggs. He's blocked at least
two shots in every game in his career. That's like,
you know, short career, but get a couple of blocks
a game is never an accident. I think the most
interesting thing to me in terms of like what is
this guy gonna be is that Washington is clearly viewing
him as a center so far eighty six percent.
Speaker 1: By the way, it didn't seem like they were gonna
do no.
Speaker 2: Why is Valentounis on like that? That was that was
the takeaway was like, Oh, I guess they think Star
is a four or they don't. He's not ready yet.
So he may not be ready, but Washington's defense has
been a fraction above league average with Sar at center,
So that's like you're looking for encouraging signs. That's that's
a big one. Small sample caveats apply. Obviously, it seems
as if he's going to be a stretch five. Part
of that's because half his shots have been from deep year,
but he's making twenty, like twenty percent of them, so
not great. But I do think to just paint a
full picture, he's pretty limited as a finisher, and like
I don't love the hands, I don't love, doesn't elevate
a ton inside, he's very easy to move. Still, like
some of that will change as he fills out, but
like it does feel if I had to guess, he
seems like a floor stretching five that can block shots
and maybe be like a grab and go guy off
of rebounds, like that kind of thing. I don't know
that he's gonna be a pick and roll finisher with
any real volume. It's so early, but just like that's
kind of my read on it. And that's all to say.
If you're gonna make you're definitely gonna shoot him. But
if you're gonna make threes in block shots and be
like pretty mobile, that's that's gonna work. I think I
don't know that there's anything close to start him in there.
But just looking at how he's moved around the floor
some of the strengths and weaknesses, I think I think
he's a starter down the line, and I think like
he could have some real pluses. I don't know how
you feel about him, but I think I'm frankly like
a little bit more optimistic than I was on draft night.
Speaker 1: I think I'm probably still skeptical about what he's going
to be Offensively. He's got to make yeah, and if
he's not gonna do that, then you're gonna have to
streamline what he's doing even more. And then that becomes
of all right, we have to surround him with as
much basing as possible so we can open up his volume.
At the rim. He is shooting like sixty nine percent
inside three feet, which I think is fine as a rookie.
But I am I don't I still don't. I guess
I get the concept of him on offense. I just
don't know what's going to turn it into. I have
been very impressed aside from Vockray, and just like overall defense,
he's a lot more physical that I thought he was
gonna be able to be. Like, he's not gonna be
the best rebounding big but I thought he's fought there,
fought on the glass a lot better, and fared a
lot better against some guys that are just stronger and
bigger than him in general right now. And again that
in tandem with my preconception coming in was they're not
going to treat him as a center, and they've given
him the latitude to be that, and I think that
that's ultimately going to be really good for his development.
I'm higher on him than I was coming into the
regular season, but he's still such and not necessarily in
a good way, Like he's an uncomfortable mystery box to
me on the offensive end.
Speaker 2: I think that's right. And I would say too, like
we got to just this is more for I'm not
saying you do this, but you're gotta just get off
the idea that he was the number two pick, Like
we just have to like that just can't be part
of the calculus because that's always going to set him
up to be viewed kind of unfairly. Like he he
just that's where he was in this class, and and
it's defensible, Like taking him there remains defensible, I think,
not far from a no brainer, But yeah, I think
I I just leave it at I'm I'm with you
like I'm slight, I'm encouraged. I'm not like I'm I'm
sold on Coolibali, I'm not. I'm encouraged by sar I would,
I would say, and George for sure. So the last guy,
Bub Carrington, I don't know the primary return in the
in the legendary Danny Avdia trade. Can we refer to
him as that? Now?
Speaker 1: I guess? I mean, yeah, what is that twenty I
picked in a become It's not gonna be a future
Hall of Famer, probably like Bubb Right.
Speaker 2: So ten points, just under five assists, four boards, nothing
spectacular shooting split wise, all just undred forty four percent
from deep, making all his free throws ninety three percent
there with him, it's just the craft, I feel like,
which just jumps out if you're watching him, you know,
getting to spots, just having great feel like in traffic.
Now the Knox might be like he's a little too
reliant on like basically bad shots or like tough shot
like mid rangers, these pull ups, these floaters and stuff.
But just like he's a little bit like George uh
in the like passing the eye test thing where just
as a pick and roll ball handler, you can just
see like his ability to manipulate space and opponents and
just like it just feels like, Okay, that guy has
an idea and a lot of that's real, like it's natural,
I think, And then you don't teach a lot of
that stuff. Like I remember thinking this about Angela Russell
many many years ago, Like someone asked me, this is
this is a deep cut when when the Lakers had
him and Clarkson the first time, It's like who do
you like better? And I was like, I just think
Russell understands what to do, like in a pick and roll,
and so I like him better. I Now, I don't
want to just compare Bob Carrington to Russell, but the
same kind of like he's not rushed, he can get
the guy on his back, he can just make the
pocket pass, he can pull up when you're supposed to,
like it's just kind of there. And I think that's
my main takeaway is that he just looks like a
player that has an idea of what he wants to
do and can do it. Like already, who was.
Speaker 1: The name you invoked at the top of the that
you compared him to before you went to D'Angelo Russell Carrington, Yeah,
didn't you mention another name?
Speaker 2: Well, it was when people people were comparing, like is
Jordan Clarkson or D'Angelo Russell the better long term prospect?
Speaker 1: Well, so mine's probably been a little bit spicy. And
when I watch him, I kind of think, like, what
if you just added or like stretched out three or
four inches of Chris Paul? Oh wow? And the ability.
I mean you mentioned the stuff about getting defenders on
your back hip. The I think he's his vision is.
I know he's bigger, so it's not you know, he's
not the expert manipulator that Chris Paul is, but he
kind of knows that. He's listed at six to four,
by the way, and I call bullshit, like this.
Speaker 2: Is someone who's like he seems bigger, right, Like he
plays bigger than that.
Speaker 1: So that patience, maintaining your dribble in traffic and just
even the shot profile a little bit where I'm not
getting to the rimiton. He'll take some threes but not
a ton, but he's he's trying to get to that
pull up MIDI We'll see if the floater I think
he's like one of four, one or five on floaters
will start to fall. But he looks comfortable, and he
doesn't also also seem like he's seeking it out. It's well,
there's space, I'm gonna dribble into it and take it.
But I look at the composure, the poise of maintaining
his dribble, and I can't help but think this is
someone who's gonna drive like hyper efficient offenses someday. Now.
I'm not going to predict that he's following me Chris
Paul Ark, but I'm I'm just thinking about, so, is
there a chance that so we've just named four players
who are in their second season or or less, three
rookies and one sophomore Black Kulibali, if you asked me
to give the over under a two point five of
those guys being long term starters on a good team.
Who's just smashed the over right now? Is this early season?
Kool aid? Is it? What? And maybe this? And I
don't know if you viewed Carrington in that vein of
the sense, do you view him as someone who can
kind of drive an entire offense in that regard, I think.
Speaker 2: Three point shooting will just be the swing skill. I
think if he can get turn some of those pull
ups turned, some of the just trade some of the
twos for threes, some of the two point jumpers for threes,
I think, then it's then it's like, well, I don't
have any notes about him like offensively if he can
do that, so less than ten games into his career
and he's this effective already and you can just see
you just see the like outlines of what this might
progress into. I think he could be that guy. I think,
like Kulibally, I have like I'm more convinced than ever
he's going to be a star. I think Carrington is
probably the guy you'd pick second in terms of like
what could be, Like how big of an impact could
he be? Could he have if he hits like the
top range of his possible outcomes.
Speaker 1: And he's look, he's at fifty five percent or fifty
four percent of his pull up twos. And so I've
actually kind of had the same thought where it's he
shooting fine off the catch from three, but he's not
taking a ton of them. We've seen it from Chris Paul.
We're like, Okay, Chris Paul had more of that like
darring Do off the like he really wanted to amliate you.
And I don't think Carrington has that type of handle
or will ever be in that position. But remember how
Chris Paul, like Chris Paul just kind of methodically dribbling
into those pull up threes that he would hit, maybe
like Rockets era Chris Paul or Clippers era Chris Paul.
That seems like something Carrington could do. I feel like
I'm running too far afield with the Chris Paul Chris Paul.
Speaker 2: Well, no, I mean it's it's early. You could do
whatever you want. I would say too, We've focused mainly
on offense here. I guess with the exception of Sar
and some cool ball, I talk like I think another positive. Now.
The numbers just are what they are. This is the
worst defense in the league. We've said it several times.
All four of these guys compete, they're all like interested
in defense. It's not you know, and that's hard to
do on a team that's gonna be bad is to
you know, And it's early. Maybe that changes, but like
the bad defense is more geared, is more stemming from
like mistakes as opposed to just like malaise or lack
of commitment or whatever like that. I do think eventually
all four of these guys can be plus defenders. They
all have good positional size, they.
Speaker 1: All have some bubble. He's been there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all these guys I think have like there's there's
a you can envision Washington being a good defense and
these guys all having a certainly star that's like what
he's hanging his hat on at this point, but like
they can be a part of a good defense. I
feel pretty confident down the line.
Speaker 1: So do we think the Wizards are ahead of schedule? Relive?
Like their rebuild started last summer. You know, so we've
got one season plus fewer than ten games into their rebuild.
They are still one of the worst teams in the league.
They want to be one of the worst teams in
the league. And I think they're gonna be rougher patches.
Rookie might hit a wall when they're not used to
playing this much. Black kooler Bali is going to go
through some tough stretches. We have questions even Blogkool Bali,
who I'm highest on. It's like, what is the level
of self creation that he can actually shoulder downline.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but where do.
Speaker 1: You view their rebuild relative to where you thought it
would be or should be based on when and even
how they started, Because look, that Bradley Beal trade, it
was more about just ripping off the band aid. That
like they didn't put anything or any asset in place.
Unless you're really that high on Jordan Poole to say, okay,
like this is something that's gonna know. That was more
about ripping off the band aid. None of these none
of these guys are like the product of that trade.
So where do you just kind of like, how do
you feel about their rebuild relative to how and when
they started?
Speaker 2: I think you've got to say it's further along than expected,
just just because all four of those guys we talked about,
you know, yeah, sure it's fair if you want to
say to circle back, well, they don't have the they
don't have the guy yet that's going to be the
best player on the next good version of this team.
I mean maybe that's true, maybe it's not. But like
they've got these four guys who all sort of fit together,
and you know the pick situation, they owe that twenty
five to the Knicks with top ten protections and it's
top eight and then I mean, like maybe that can
be probably not going to convey. And then they've got
the latter half of the decade, They've got all the
Phoenix swaps coming in and all that other stuff.
Speaker 1: Like so what I do.
Speaker 2: I think it's possible that because of what they have now,
which like you know, again, this may change in two
months when they they still have two wins or something,
and like it's just look, it looks rough, but like
what they have now, plus their flexibility going forward, their
ability to trade veterans for more draft assets, it's like,
you know, for this being the first full full year
of the rebuild, because you can't really call last year
that because they were just starting. Yeah, I mean like
or maybe I don't know, maybe you can. But like
they're further along, I think than you would expect. And
that's because they seem to have kind of hit on
all four of these guys more than any else.
Speaker 1: Is it weird that, I guess because it's more about
draft position THO when you told us to throw that
out the window, it feels like saur is still sort
of the biggest mid of like, oh, was that the
right pick?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, yeah. I mean the other thing I'd say too,
is they're different from like, take Portland, right, Portland has
you know, half the roster is older and they need
to trade them and we're not sure about scooting off defense.
Speaker 1: You're just barrassing, right.
Speaker 2: Utah doesn't have the guy. Uh, I'm I don't know
where else do you want? Detroit like, yeah, kid cunning
M's better than anybody Washington has. But I think maybe
the thing about the Wizard rebuild that's so appealing is
it's so clean. It's just like they got their picks.
They you know, they've got these four guys and you
kind of have a shotgun approach, like maybe two of
them become great. It's just there's no complicating factors, right, And.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no one's rushing them either where I think Utah
and Portland. Utah's pacifically because they have all those picks
and Lowry it's oh that they if they're not gonna
they don't have the guy, they need to go out
and trade for the guy. Anyway. In Portland, it's well,
you have all these they we called them stacked. We
knew they were gonna be bad, but they are not
as stacked. Or you look at the roster, it's they
need to hold this fire sale, or they should couldn't
make a consolidation trade. Washington's not up against that, and
it's not I mean Portland, they've Portland to have been
their rebuilds longer. Portland's feels longer because those like Latter
Dame years were just aimless. But Utah is like, Okay,
they're in the third season of the rebuild, and it's like,
so Washington is in a second. They're not light years behind.
So yeah, I think they're ahead there. For me there,
I don't think I would have sat predicted. We're sitting
here in the onset stages of year two and like, man,
they might have like three or four guys who are
just gonna be part of the next really good team.
Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, yeah, no, they're they I mean really again,
two and four worst defense in the league. That's like
they're gonna they're bad. They've been bad, They're gonna be bad,
and like that's fine. It's just it's totally okay because
they've got what looked like some pretty promising guys in there.
Speaker 1: East Coast bias continues. I don't necessarily want to spend
a ton of time on this team because they have
two plays who are injured that are pretty important of
what they do. So I'm gonna ask you before we
go into the performance of the squad and two individuals
who are standing the f out grant? Are the Toronto
Raptors the fun kind of bad?
Speaker 2: Are they the fun kind of bad? Well, they're way
more interesting than I thought they would be for like, so,
I guess that's fun and at least like, yeah, at
least I don't know. Did they pick this direction to
trot out an old Toronto criticism or is this like
what's just happened because of injuries but a lot of
positive signs like big to small. I presume you want
to start with RJ. Barrett being the best passer on
the planet Earth.
Speaker 1: Yeah, seven point eight is is per game. He hasn't
played a ton of games because he began this injured,
this season injured, but you look at what he's been
able to do, and it's okay. The pocket passes seem smoother,
they're smarter. His floor awareness is just better in transition,
Like this feels like a real, like actual legitimate playmaking
jump from him. And we'll see how it's sustains when
both Scotty and Emmanuel quickly we're both been absent, are
inside the lineup. But it doesn't sound we know Scotty's
out for a while, doesn't necessarily sound like IQ's about
to make his debut. But I think RJ, I mean,
he's facing more defensive pressure, more double teams, and his
decision making out of those has gotten better. Now some
of the trade off has been all right, his efficiency
at the rim has slipped, but like he is still
creating chaos going down hill on drives, getting out and
transition in general. The other thing that I think makes
them fun. RJ's a part of this, Grady Dick's a
part of this. They're just I mean, they're running in general.
I think they have the fifth fastest average possession time
in the league. No one's going faster after defensive rebounds.
They just grab a defensive rebound and they're there's not
pass They're just going and so that to me makes
them that's the fun kind of bad. But they've had
some close games where it's, oh, well they beat the
Nuggets that we can record the blow It Up Denver podcast,
that everyone seems like they've been waiting on RJ has
been a huge part of that. Since coming back. I
think he's in under Darko Ryakovic. The way that Darko
is using him, I honestly think that he might get
even better. The playmaking will slip, to be clear when
IQ and Scottie Barnes are there, but just having to
imagine him, like being able to spend even more time
off the ball, getting him moving there, I would expect
the efficiency at the rim to climb back up. He
still is shooting thirty nine percent from three, and so it's, well,
do we have to wait a while before we call
this a new normal? But he did okay, or he
did better than okay from three in Toronto last year.
I think he's gonna kind of settle into maybe his
ideal role with Toronto, where it's we're gonna get you
the ball when you're leading these bench lineups that we
now believe that you can lead because of our play
style combined with your growth as a playmaker and your
off ball movement. He is just he continues to turn
my head again, even if some of the inside the
arc efficiency is waiting, the mindset, the aesthetics, just the
functionality of his game right now to me just looks
and makes way more sense than it ever did in
New York.
Speaker 2: What do you think is the what are the most
and least surprising parts of his development viewed through? Like
here's what he was as a Nick like having watched
him with the Knicks, like maybe just speak for Knicks
fans or from in your own personal opinion, like what
what is he doing now that? Like, what is he
doing really well now that you could have said, Oh, yeah,
I could, I could, I could have seen that coming,
and then what could you have just Oh my god,
where did this come from?
Speaker 1: So the thing that I'm wondering where it kind of
came from is and I don't know how much of
this the playmaking. I want to know where it came from,
because this is just someone who's dishing out of sists
in all sorts like this spacing in Toronto isn't pristine,
And so I could talk about the floor balance that
the Knicks gave him, and that's where I kind of
look like some of the stuff he is doing in transition,
his ability to get moving off the ball. The Knicks
never tapped into that adequately, but the passing where like
this is shit that's happening in traffic or in slowed
down sets. That's even during some of the bench units
he was a part of that. We're just ripping opponents,
never something I necessarily envisioned for him. So that's the
thing I'm looking at, and I'm almost waiting for it
to come down because it's there's no way it's going
to sustain. But it's not I mean, not turn the
ball over a ton, even like the Raptors do turn
the ball over. But he's not necessarily the like the
the meat and potatoes of those struggles. I don't think
he's an eight assist per game guy, but when he is,
like the central focus and he's still able to dish
those kinds of assists on a Raptors team, Yeah, they've
been about league average offensively, but grant you look at
the talent remaining without Scotty Emmanuel, like Jamal shed Donovan Mitchell,
it's just like, like, who are you, Jonathan Mobile? Like
I just like who is the Yes, Yaka Pertle is
definitely above average offensive center. I want to make that clear.
I think he ties in a lot of you know,
possessions together nicely. But you're talking about like like a
Boji's playing over thirty minutes per game. Like, this isn't
a team that you would look at and say, oh,
they're supposed to be average or better offensively right now,
and they are. So that stood out to me, unless
you have any thoughts on him. I have another player
that I think we need to get to.
Speaker 2: Well, I know who you're gonna go to. I want
to you mention both of them. I think Mobo and
Shed have both been like you know, they're bit players,
but like mobile disruption defensively and his mobility and his
grab and go stuff. Like I think he's I was
looking this up the other day. So he's only played
like one hundred and twenty minutes I think, and he
has more deflections than anyone who has played that many
minutes or fewer. So he's just like messing stuff up
in the in the best way. And Shed, I think,
just looks like a kind of a pro ready. I
don't know where he'll fit on a depth chart ultimately,
but like both of those guys have had like actual impacts,
which is not something you would expect it from a
couple of rookies this early. But please let us move
to the I mean the second year guy that I will.
Speaker 1: Say, mobo, I've disruptive is the word just to absolutely
use him with shed. I still think that the jumper,
the three point shooting and like in particular is gonna
wind up being the like the swing skill for him.
That dude just defends his ass off. And so if
you could just get to a point where you have
this spasing necessary and you want him to kind of
get going downhill, I'm like, all right, that's fine with me.
Like I don't have an issue with that. So he
is someone I knew a ton about other than the
defensive reputation coming out of college, but just the energy
that he is going to play with. And I still
think like, there's okay, he's made some nice passes out
of drives, and is he ever gonna shoot a little
better on those drives? We'll have to see. We got
to talk about Grady Dick though, who is already averaging
over twenty points per game. He's entered the most improved
player discussions. Whether you want to throw sophomores in there, well,
I guess very quickly, do you think RJ has a
case for that? As a Right now, we're fewer than
ten games into the season. But or was that just
if all right, like this is more a matter of
opportunity than growth that I well, I.
Speaker 2: Mean, if he's up over seven assists for like any
length of this season, that is officially like a new
skill and we very much enjoyed the new skill and
the most improved player discussion. So yeah, I mean, I
think Grady Dick has like the more complete case just
because all the numbers are up and his role is
like I don't know ten x in terms of importance
what it used to be as a rookie. But yeah,
I mean that's if far j Bar as a primary facilitator.
I don't know what to do about this. I don't
know what has happened, but let's talk about Grady Dick.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I want everyone who is watching or listening
to raise their hand if they saw Grady Dick opening
the year putting up twenty plus points per game. Now,
for all of you who put your hand up, thank
you for admitting that you're big fat liars. This is
just like he's not even doing it in the way
you would have predicted. The three point percentage is like
it's now it's ticked up. I think he's over thirty
seven percent now. He wasn't making them at this absurd clip.
He's done so much damage inside the arc and the
way he's doing it, like the level of difficulty that
are on his shots is bonkers. Steph Curry. Grant is
the only player coming off screens finishing possessions off screens
more often per game than Grady Dick. That's just I mean,
by the way, kudos to Darko for putting him in
that situation, but that's just absolutely ubsurd, the stuff he's
doing inside the arc. Caitlin Cooper had this nutso stat Grant.
Seventy one percent of Grady shots have been heavily contested,
which ranks fifteenth among the twenty six players who have
attempted at least one hundred shots. He leads the entire
league in screens as the off ball cutter, with one
hundred and thirty three among the twenty three players who
have seen at least fifty closeouts. Grady ranks third in
points per chance at one point basically one point one
to nine. That's actually the part of his game. I
know people have talked about the contested jumpers, what he's
doing against closeouts. Oh yeah, my god, the drop grant.
He's shooting over sixty percent on drives. But the thing
that is melting my brain and I didn't see this
last year. I saw some of the escapism stuff. We
talked about it with Samson Folk I think you and
I talked about it in a podcast. Dude is like physical,
like he can finish through contract, he can be at
these weird angles. He's getting fouled more than seventy percent
of the time on his drives right now. Do you
know how insane to be shooting sixty percent on drives
and getting fouls seventeen percent of the time. I don't
fucking care how early in the sea than it is
right now. This is someone who we've kind of seen
moments of, like okay, can he do a little bit
more passing here? This is someone who is far more
complex offensively than we ever could have predicted. And the
final thing before I throw it to you, I did
talk about this with Samson and someone told me to
watch this. This was coming out of the draft that
Grady Dick could be a good team defender. I'm not
saying he's there, but I am there to where it's
all right, Like I see it, like he's made a
lot of good off ball plays and he's going to
be targeted on ball and we've seen it. Yeah, But
like he's also had these moments where did you see
the possession it was overtime against the Kings where he
just locks down dearon Fox, It doesn't lock him down
like pokes the ball away while staying in front of him.
Now does that say more about are you concerned about
what Daron Fox is like Roby Speed is right now?
I don't fucking know, but this is someone I can't
put him in the MIP discussion right now because me
and sophomore as you know, how my brain back and
forth with that stuff. Jay Dubb broke it last year,
like he just he completely fried my brain him and
then Daron Fox a few years ago. The Granny Dick
bandwagon is run officially running out of room because people,
I promise this is the final thing. This isn't just
like raptors or someone trying to do their like. People
just understand right now, if you're a cattual basketball fan,
Granny Dick is lighting it up and he's not doing
it as a three point shooter necessarily.
Speaker 2: That really is my ultimate takeaway is that like he
just and I do think you heard throughout the draft
process and even last year that like he's a oh
no from people that knew. This wasn't the majority take
I don't think people would say, like he's more than
he's not, Like he's not early Duncan Robinson. He's actually
kind of more like late Duncan Robinson, who can suddenly
put the ball on the floor and like do stuff
with it, you know what I mean, Like that he
really is just more than he's not just a spot
up guy that you maybe run off screens and he
shoots threes and you hide him on defense like he's
he's I mean him coming off screen the heat, I mean,
the rappers actually do like create a lot of chaos
by just running him around and using him as a
screener too. By the way, that's like if you're you
should use really good shooters as screeners that because of
all the like all the I don't know problems that causes. So, yeah,
he's just more than a guy that's gonna oh, you know,
he might average eight nine points a game, get up
a couple threes and just hopefully you play the matchups
right and he doesn't get cooked on you. No, no,
like he he's doing stuff with the ball. He's had
these like that reverse layup the other night and he
had that weird I love his little we strained hanging
scoops that he should like there's real like. I wouldn't
go so far as to say Grady Dick has like
is in his bag, like he you know, cook everybody
off the dribble or whatever. But you can't. You have
to close out hard, you have to stay attached. And
then he's really good or way better than anyone gave
him credit for, at exploiting the way you have to
guard him because he is a good shooter, and that's
allowed him to just show that like he's so much
more than just the guy who's gonna catch and shoot.
Speaker 1: I've tried well, actually, I wanted to circle back to this.
So here's he's attempted sixteen to three through free throws
coming off of his draw like as the result of
his drives. Here's everyone in the league currently who is
attempted as many or more free throws while shooting sixty
percent on drives. Darren Fox, Giannis and Jason Tatum, but
I was trying to think, do you have a comp
for him? Because Darko, by the way, he compared R. J.
Barrett to manage Ginobili the other night. I didn't hate it.
He made it very clear he wasn't talking about necessarily
as a usage, but it's someone like the idiosyncrasies in
his game, and I was like, I don't hate this.
I was trying to think of Grady Dick and I
just see all these people there, they've they did it
before and they're thrown it out like all the Caucasian
like dudes, right, So I think it was I was
listening to Raptors Republic podcast. They made a joke that
some people have been comparing him to Mike Miller. I
can't think of it. None of the comps do it
for me. Like I'm just trying to think. I'm not
saying he's gonna be better than all of these guys,
but just the stuff that he is able to do
physically off closeouts and some of the finishes he's had,
I just I can't Only what he then does is
like this sort of super threat away from the ball.
I don't have a good comp for him. Anymore. I
just don't not that I had one to begin with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm really struggling. I feel like it shouldn't be
that hard to comp with somebody. Well, put put get
your Grady Dick comp comps in the comments. Please let
us give it.
Speaker 1: The one guy that's sprang to mind. And I just
I don't No, Cam Johnson, I just don't know.
Speaker 2: I think he's got more. I think he's got more
off the dribble thing.
Speaker 1: That's what it is, is that because Cam Johnson, I
feel like we've seen the moments of it, like these
are now extended flashes of this. So I don't know
if you have a good comp for Grady Dick. Let
us know. We love we love Dick comps round.
Speaker 2: All right, I got one more guy I want to
talk about. If we're if we're through with the Raptors, Yeah,
we're done.
Speaker 1: Though they are well to close it. They are the
fun kind of bad, right, They're just you're kind of
there are guys who are performing and expect to there's real,
I mean stuff to take away from it. And well, look,
Kelly A. Linnik hasn't even played this season yet and
Bruce Brown still wearing cowboy hats on the sideline, So
let's see what this team turns into.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and also the you know, root for injuries, but
having a couple of key guys out, you're going to
bank some of those losses and let these other fun players,
you know, explore the space a little bit. That's kind
of a win win.
Speaker 1: What do you trade them and rebuild around Grady Dick
and r J.
Speaker 2: Barrett's That's that's that's a you're saying the quiet part loud. Now,
that's really clearly the way to go. We're gonna stay
in the Eastern Conference. I just want to talk about
Jade and Ivy. I think coming into this season, for
me at least, he was one of the most interesting
like maybe just say X factor or sort of unknowns,
guys that, depending on how they did or did not develop,
could really have an outsized impact on like what their
franchise does in the big in the biggest sense going forward,
you know, and to synthesize it, it's like, is he
the guy that we can have next to Cade Cunningham?
And I think so far the indications are like, actually, yeah,
it's starting to look quite a bit like that. So, uh,
just the basics, averaging nineteen point six points four and
a half boards, three point six assists, forty six point
seven percent from the field, thirty nine percent from three,
making about three quarters of his free throws. Nothing crazy there.
His three point ten volume is basically unchanged and has
stuck around like between seven point four and eight per
one hundred for his career. So it's not like these
gains are in three point volume. It's three point accuracy.
It's specifically catch and shoot accuracy, which I would argue
if you're looking for the skill that you need him
to have next Decaid Cunningham and with this roster, that
skews away from shooting at least with Asar Thompson once
he's back and Ron Holland like, that's the one. You've
got to make enough catch and shoot threes to keep
defenses honest. And this is the other key. It's related
to just unlock what he can do as a second
side attacker, which is where he's just that's where that's
where Jade and Ivy looks special, Like that's where you
can see, Oh, here's how he was drafted this high
because when he's downhill and and just is able to
take off or slither around guys. It's it's there's not
a lot of players that can do what he does
athletically going to the basket. And as a result of
him making a ton of his catch and shoot threes,
he's hitting half his shot getting half of his shots
at the rim because he's got to be honored as
a shooter and he's just gotten better at picking his
spots and went to attack. His previous career, I was
thirty five percent of his shots came at the rim,
So like pretty substantial change for him, and in the
best way. His drives per game aren't actually any higher.
He's just finishing better at the rim and he's finding
other ways to get there. So it's just like the
steps we've seen from him. I think if you're a
Pistons fan, it's almost like it's like a relieved exhale.
I think is like the correct reaction because you have
now some pretty good early season evidence that Okay, this
isn't going to be a wasted We're not going to
have to start thinking about trading Jade and Ivy or
like asking, you know, figuring out like who can be
that guy, because he like I'm not saying he's going
to be a superstar, But all the things he's doing
this year makes sense as a as a one, B
or two next to Kaid Cunningham in ways they didn't before.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he's not really good this year, just
even you mentioned the off ball shooting, but the way
that he's kind of moved off the ball at points
as well. I guess not to focus on the negative.
My biggest question for him moving forward would be you
kind of mentioned what does he look like in some
of the tougher s basing lineups? If a sar Thompson
comes back and you ever want to play all their
young guys together. I am curious. And this isn't as
huge of a problem because Kate is there, and even
like sar Thompson and Ron Holland are are notable because
of their passing abilities. I don't know what to make
of him as a playmaker just yet. I would at
least like to see him be able to find guys
in more of those second side situations are just coming
out of drives. Even as we're recording right now, he
has more turnovers on drives than assists. That might be
more of a mindset thing. A lot of the pisses
team mates are new defenses still don't necessarily like they
have better spacing. But are these all shooters That defense
in respect depends on the defense that you're going up.
I honestly, I'm saying this with genuine curiosity. I'm curious
to see what he turns into as a playmaker.
Speaker 2: And you don't need him.
Speaker 1: To be the floor general of Kate cutting him there,
But if you want him to lead second units or
just be even more of a dynamic threat and your
full strength lineups is can he get off the ball
a little bit more quickly?
Speaker 2: I think it's in there. I would concede though that
like the the name that comes to mind for both
good and Ill when he's attacking is Russell Westbrook and
likes nobody is athletic, like what like Peak Westbrook was,
But Ivy does have those bursts where it's like, is
he at a different speed than everybody else? Like it
really does it? Like it's a glitchy almost. But he
also has the thing where like the ball just squirts
out or like he's you know, gets contact and the
ball just pings around, and so it's like those are
you know, maybe it's a. Maybe it's an issue of
throttle back to like ninety five percent instead of one hundred,
and then maybe we cut some of those turnovers because
he does just like get downhill and he turns into
a blur and the ball just doesn't get where it
needs to go. I still think I don't know that
he's going to be ever, You're like, he's gonna run
thirty pick and rolls a game and just you know,
dissected defense that way that I don't think is really
in the car.
Speaker 1: Just based off what you've seen this year, feel more
inclined to settle in those situa where it's like even
Westbrook would be a good comp here, where it's well,
why is he taking that pull up jumper right?
Speaker 2: Why the thirteen footer? Yeah, no, there's some of that.
I do think he can get to the point where
the ball's Cunningham is getting all the attention, it swings
to Ivy and he has like a single guy that's
in rotation to attack. I think he can make the
like two to three dribble decision. Like, I think he
can get to a point where and you know, we
don't need to make the incredible skip passes or whatever
but just like either go all the way and finish,
which he can do really well, or just make the
simple pass to the open shooter. And now, do the
Pistons have guys in their long term core that are
going to make those shots? I don't know that that's
another complicating factor.
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: It's just a positive that, like, now we've moved on
to that question, because I do think Ivy's shown enough
to suggest he can just be that second guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think also the game has clearly slowed
down for him or he slowed down himself, which I
think helps as well. So I would say I don't
I would call myself TBD on whether he's the right
running mate for K moving forward. But I think that
he has the strongest case that he's had in two
plus years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is in saying a lot. And you know,
he was not exactly set up to succeed, so that
that's another part of it. He's just like being put
in better positions now.
Speaker 1: He's also look, I don't know how many people want
to have this discussion, but advocating for it, he's not
this front office's guy. He has made himself a more
valuable trade asset. This season.
Speaker 2: It's true.
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of Pistons fans who want brandon
Ingram now, and maybe they just think the cost is
so low. But like, you don't actively want brandon Ingram, Cunningham, Ivy,
Asar and Holland on your butt, right, that doesn't make
all of those you're not first of all, you're not
playing them all together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a little crowded for to me. And like, frankly,
I just you're not you You need to still learn
more about Thompson and Holland and like Ivy and Cunningham
for that and for that matter, I don't know that
Ingram helps you get a lot of good information from
those guys.
Speaker 1: Well, I depending on what the cost is, he's shooting
enough threes or I would be at least somewhat tempted.
Speaker 2: Maybe, Yeah, I just wonder, Yeah, maybe I just wonder
if you run into the same problem the Pelicans have
where it's like, yeah, he's you know, he's a good player.
He's gonna take up a bunch of shots and some
of them will be threes, maybe not enough, and like
how you know, you're just not learning anything about your
guys that you want to with him. In the lineup.
It's a weird, weird phenomenon.
Speaker 1: You ready for rapid fire news?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Uh? Do you have our news doc open? Or do
you just want me to run through it all?
Speaker 2: I got it.
Speaker 1: You'll start with the Hawks. Vit Cragie will be reevaluating
the second week of Novem after suffering a thigh injury.
Speaker 2: A lot of injuries in Atlanta for the Celtics, Jalen
Brown's dealing with a hip flexer Wednesday's game against Golden State.
That's gonna happen tonight as we're recording. It will be
the third game he's missed.
Speaker 1: For the Brooklyn Nets. Trenton Watford, who's yet to play
with a hamstring injuries, expected to make his season debut soon.
Per head coach Jordy Fernandez, I'm excited to see grabbing
ghos stuff from Trenton Watford. Ben Simmons remains day to
day with back issues. Noma Clowney remains day to day
with a hip injury.
Speaker 2: For the Bulls. Zach Levine is expected to miss a
second straight game. He's got a thigh issue.
Speaker 1: Nick Richards, by the way, I forgot to include this
on the dog.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: He is going to miss some time for the Hornets
with a rib cartilage fracture. They did not give a
concrete timetable. He's out indefinitely.
Speaker 2: I think they said they were going to reevaluate him
every other week, which is okay, that's that's maybe a little.
Speaker 1: Bit for Chicago. I'll take them since I I don't
know why I did Chicago.
Speaker 2: You take Dallas? You did Chicago, Yeah, Zach Lavigne that issue, Oh.
Speaker 1: Sorry, excuse me, Dallas. Derek Clivey, the second, remains day
to day with a shoulder issue. Max and Kleeba is
still dealing with a hamstring injury Wednesday. He's not expected
to play, so that'll mark his sixth straight absence. And PJ.
Washington is missing Wednesday's game against the Bulls with a
right knee sprain, which is that doesn't feel necessarily like
a one game injury, but we'll have to say.
Speaker 2: Yeah, big one here. Aaron Gordon is gonna miss multiple
weeks with a calf strain right calf aggravated it against
the Raptors this past Monday, and I mean, the hits
keep coming. Jamal Murray is in concussion protocols. He's gonna
miss his third straight game on Wednesday.
Speaker 1: Do you think Calvin Booth is like watching the tape
from that win over the Raptors in just like a
dimly lit room that's locked by himself with sort of
like maybe Barry Manilo playing in the background. He saw
the kid's division coming together.
Speaker 2: We man, it's just yeah, real excited. I just like
we've already had a couple of these. But man, are
we going to litigate the Denver Nuggets like last three
off seasons a lot this? I feel like that's just
that that is going to be a big topic all season.
Speaker 1: This isn't I didn't include this, but Dantony Melton's still
out with back stuff for the Warriors. They don't seem
to know when he's going to come back, but this
one is something to monitor. Steven Adams is still dealing
with a right knee issue. He's not expected to play Wednesday.
This is for Houston for anyone who might not know
Steven Adams plays for. He's made two appearances so far
this season.
Speaker 2: For the Pacers. Man torn achilles number two Isaiah Jackson
tore his expected to miss the rest of the season.
Falls James Wiseman's same injury brutal. I mean that, you know,
forget the oh the big man depth is compromise. That
just sucks. Like those are two massive injuries to ive got.
Speaker 1: It sucks for Jackson because he's in a contract year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that hurts. Aaron E. Smith is going to miss
his second straight game Wednesday sprain right ankle. Rick Carlisle
said he's wearing a walking boot, So I make of
that what you will. Andrew Nimhard played Monday against the MAVs,
but he's still day to day. Got a sore left
knee that has cost him one game so far.
Speaker 1: For the Lakers, Jared Vanderbilt was spotted practicing with them,
but he has yet to play this year as he
recovers from a right foot injury, and they have not
provided a timetable for his return. It doesn't even sound
like this was per Kobe Price, who covers the Lakers.
The way that it's framed is he was spotted practicing
as Lakers. Makes me think, were you supposed to see that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, spies in the rafters were able to discern that
it was ed disguise. Jared Vanderbilt practicing not on here,
but Anthony Davis had a foot injury that he played
through in his last game, and so anything with Anthony
Davis is going to be worth monitoring. Well, I don't
know if that's day to day or not. For the
Memphis Grizzlies, Marcus Smart has missed the last three games.
He's got a right ankle sprain. Can you just be
listened as questionable? The Grizzlies are just like just again,
up and down the rosters. Everybody's hurt.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's Scotty Pippen Junior's here to save the day
for the Miami Heat. How May Hawker's junior will miss
his second straight game on Wednesday with an illness.
Speaker 2: Milwaukee Bucks, stop me if you've heard this before. Chris
Middleton is out indefinitely still he's recovering from dual ankle surgeries.
Scham's Trani on NBA to Day said the Bucks have
recognized that this quote have recognized that this is taking
much longer than they anticipated. Middleton has yet to resume
five on five action on the court. Everything is super great,
and I.
Speaker 1: Don't even he doesn't fix what's ailing.
Speaker 2: Them the most, Just like, why not you know one more?
Speaker 1: Uh, We're onto the Pelicans. So Jordan Hawkins missed Monday's
game with lower back tightness and remains day to day.
We already covered the CJ McCollum, Trey Murphy, Jontay Mary absences.
Zion Williamson has missed the past two games with a
quad slash hamstrings that slash thigh issue. He remains questionable.
It also whatever's going on with him also seems just
a little bit more mysterious than you would like.
Speaker 2: Quad and hamstring at the same time.
Speaker 1: Not great, I've seen. I was trying to dig into
it more and maybe we'll have more information by the
time this comes out, So any wonder the comments who's
well actually congratulations on existing in the future.
Speaker 2: It's just like, uh, Zion Williamson's entire leg is fucked.
Speaker 1: Pelicans are cursed, is questionable, Jesus all right.
Speaker 2: For the Knicks campaigns questionable with a hamstring injury Wednesday,
He's missed a game so far. Matt Ryan signed a
non guaranteed deal with the Knicks, who just need human
bodies to play.
Speaker 1: Legally, they need fourteen bodies, You're right, which is a
tough threshold for the clear.
Speaker 2: Ariel Hookporti got converted from his two way to a
standard deal. It's a non guarantee, but he's got it
includes a team option. Good for him. He's looked. He
looked pretty good in a few stretches.
Speaker 1: I saw him play Oklahoma City. I don't have any
injury updates for them, Grant. I just wanted you to
know that they still have zero backup centers available but
continue to own the best adjusted defensive rating in the history.
Speaker 2: Just thank you for that. Appreciate it for the Magic.
This has been a few days now, but big deal.
Paul Bencaro out in definitely with a torn obleak. Wende
Carter Junior is gonna miss his second straight game with
planner fasci itis in his left foot. Also just missed
a game due to right knee tendon itis.
Speaker 1: And also I would just direct you back to the
conversation that Grant led on on the Magic after the
Palot injury that we reacted to. I don't know if
it was live. It might have been the day after.
Orlando's offense is dead last inefficiency since he went down.
Speaker 2: That's a problem.
Speaker 1: He's pretty important for the run of Philadelphia seventy six ers.
Paul George Grant made his season debut versus the Suns
on Monday, and it seems like he's gonna play against
the Clippers on Wednesday. How about it? This is a
bigger one. Joelle Embiid has received a three game suspension
for an altercation with the Philly in choirers Marcus Hayes.
Embiid reportably shoved, not assaulted or punched, or whatever vernacular
was going around in the moment. He reportedly shoved Hayes
during a heated argument that followed an article Hayes wrote
about Embiid's availability, in which Hayes used a since removed
reference to Embid's deceased brother and his son to prove
the article's point. Too many people have gotten way into this,
but my commentary would be the article itself was. It
was typical like national columnists like, this is what they do.
But it was unacceptable that he just invoked needlessly Embiid's
son and his brother to prove a point. I thought
that was gross. That does not give Joel Embiid the
right to push him. Everyone comes off here looking very poorly. However,
Embiid's suspension does feel like it's going to begin immediately,
and I questioned whether he was going to play immediately,
so will there be a follow up investigation there? But
the Philly inquired by the way they published something that
made it seem like they were gonna, like really follow
through with this. I don't know if a lawsuit will file,
so it's something to monitor. But I very much believe
that we all, for what we say, should have consequences
if we come across a player. But the people who
were kind of like raw ry, Yeah, Beid pushed him like,
shut the fuck up, like you now you're taking yourself
out of three games in which your teams need you,
and Beid needs to be smarter. But we also, I
don't like this idea that we get to say whatever
we want about these players. They are humans. And finally,
the idea that EMBIID is somehow responsible for, let alone
faking injuries or doesn't want to play is just ludicrous.
Like that is just dumb assery at its finest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the the section of that column was unnecessary and
over the line, and EMBIID is wrong because don't do
violence to words. You know, that's pretty pretty straightforward for
the Spurs here. Jeremy Sohon suffered a fracture in his
left thumb during Monday's game against Clippers. He's going to
have surgery. Team's going to provide updates as appropriate. That's
going to be I mean several weeks minimum. Right Devin
Vessel not expected to make his season debuts. He's recovering
from right foot surgery until the Spurs come back from
their current road trip, so his earliest debut is looking
like November seventh. We'll see also Greg Popovich away from
the team indefinitely, having suffered a I forget what the
exact phrasing was, like a health situation or something like that.
It's all been very vague. The Spurs aren't giving out
any details as as which is fine. Popovich is seventy five.
You got to take this stuff seriously. So he's going
to be away from the team, I would imagine for
quite a while.
Speaker 1: And I really hope ESPN has Shams ceased reporting on
this because he's just saying there's a serious concern and
with I don't think we need to know the details,
because that's the fact that we know all these player
medicals is awkward enough. But let's if we don't know
what's going on, we don't need to speculator just throw
around terms like serious, thank you, I did not have
that in the doc. Thanks for thanks for catching that.
The Raptors we just kind of talked about this. But
Kelly Linnock is still a few weeks away from returning
from a back injury. He has yet to play this season.
Bruce Brown is not expected back anytime soon following the
right knee surgery he underwent in September, and Emmanuel Quickly,
who has not played since Opening Night, remains out with
a pelvic injury. It does not seem like he has
a concrete timetable for his return.
Speaker 2: More time for Grady Dick and Jonathan Mobo to do
cool stuff.
Speaker 1: Great Jeff to do his Jason Tatum impressions.
Speaker 2: That's the comp for the Jazz. Jordan Clarkson been diagnosed
with left planner fasciitis. He'll be reevaluated at the end
of the week after missing what will be a total
of five games. Rookie has a Collier is still out
with the right hand am string. Man like too bad
because he might be getting some some minutes here given
Clarkson's absence. He hasn't played this season. Call here and
Lari Markin and missed his third straight back issues on Monday.
His status for moving forward is unclear. I would expect
Lori markten to miss the odd game here and there
throughout the season with back issues or something.
Speaker 1: In fact that they're not listing made up body parts though,
does have me a little bit concerned.
Speaker 2: Well, maybe they should trot out the like what was
the Porzingis injury? It was like a reticular letter to.
Speaker 1: They should make They should just make up. I mean
someone will catch it, but like just name the most complicated,
maybe inconsequential, like part of the body and just have
that sore bruised.
Speaker 2: Well, like with Steph Sorry, with Steph Curry's ankle thing,
suddenly this is a peroneal tendon strain or something. It's like,
all right, we saw his ankle flip over. We don't
need to be this precise.
Speaker 1: Do you have anything else? Are you ready to take
us out of here? After we won twenty five minutes,
we said we were just going to do an hour midweek.
We went out on twenty five.
Speaker 2: You're welcome, all right. We had we had a lot
of a lot of Eastern conference, We had a lot
of market this podcast. Thanks everybody for checking in with us.
We'll have another episode going up I don't know next week,
next Tuesday, Dan, is that the deal? I guess I
should have consulted with you before.
Speaker 1: We'll have one on Saturday going up Saturday that bailed
on me this Friday already granted learning you all live.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, thanks for watching. If you have an
already rate review, subscribe. Make sure you comment on YouTube.
We've made specific solicitations for comments on this one because
we need answers on the Grady Dick comps. That's that's
an important issue. Please please contribute. You can join our
discord uh and check out our merch links for that
in YouTube and podcast description. I think that's going to
cover it. Thanks again, Thank you, Dan, Dan, I hope
you're doing well. Just to book end.
Speaker 1: Then, you're such a good friend.
Speaker 2: Thanks, I appreciate it. Shouts Franklin, the apologies, Jared Allen