1
00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:09,640
Speaker 1: What is up Pelasiko's I Am Dana Valley coming at

2
00:00:09,679 --> 00:00:13,320
you with the one, the only, the best co host

3
00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:18,440
in the podcasting business, mister Grant Hughes. We are a

4
00:00:18,559 --> 00:00:21,480
month into the NBA season officially when this is dropping.

5
00:00:21,519 --> 00:00:23,960
This is one month since the NBAC were one month

6
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:25,879
in a day since it opened the twenty second when

7
00:00:25,879 --> 00:00:27,839
you'll be listening to this, it's talk for some burning

8
00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,280
questions that would Grant, I just have to get off

9
00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,960
our chest, not our bear chess, because we don't want

10
00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,359
to embarrass anyone else out there. So we are both

11
00:00:36,359 --> 00:00:39,640
wearing shirts. But we've got a handful of questions and

12
00:00:39,679 --> 00:00:42,000
we will take turns deciding which which direction we're going

13
00:00:42,039 --> 00:00:43,560
to take them that we just think are going to

14
00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,920
be important to clock for the rest of the year.

15
00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,200
Some of them are micro dealing with a specific team.

16
00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:50,039
A lot of them are more macro though, about things

17
00:00:50,079 --> 00:00:52,520
that are happening around the league, situations that we're really

18
00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:57,119
going to be tracking moving forward. Our first burning question, though, Grant,

19
00:00:57,479 --> 00:00:58,359
how the heck are you doing?

20
00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,359
Speaker 2: I'm doing well. Thank you for asking. I should have

21
00:01:02,479 --> 00:01:04,359
used all that time to come up with something more

22
00:01:04,359 --> 00:01:06,560
pithy to say, but I'll turn it back on you

23
00:01:06,599 --> 00:01:08,799
because today's going to be a dialogue, Dan, how are

24
00:01:08,799 --> 00:01:09,200
you doing?

25
00:01:10,159 --> 00:01:12,840
Speaker 1: I am, I'm fantastic. This is one of my favorite

26
00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:14,840
type of exercises to do, where it's we get to

27
00:01:14,879 --> 00:01:17,680
bounce around to a bunch of different subjects where there's

28
00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,760
some there's some micro implications, but there's macro implications as well.

29
00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,680
I'm just curious because we did build like our pool

30
00:01:24,719 --> 00:01:27,959
of questions that we will call from together. What makes

31
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,359
a burning question for you? What is it? Is it

32
00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:34,560
more so, oh, this team is shocking or disappointing me

33
00:01:34,719 --> 00:01:37,319
in some huge way, or is it this thing is

34
00:01:37,359 --> 00:01:40,480
happening or this combination of things is happening, And how

35
00:01:40,519 --> 00:01:44,680
does that change the competitive landscape in the sense of, oh,

36
00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:46,400
is this team going to make a big move or

37
00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,959
is this team suddenly a championship content? What makes a

38
00:01:48,959 --> 00:01:50,359
burning question for mister Grant?

39
00:01:50,719 --> 00:01:53,319
Speaker 2: I think I think it's one that has a little

40
00:01:53,359 --> 00:01:54,959
bit of a tail to it. That's probably not the

41
00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,879
right word, but something where Okay, so we get an

42
00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,159
answer to this question, and then there's a very consequential

43
00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,319
like so what that kind of comes after it? And

44
00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,639
that's so what can touch on like you said, maybe

45
00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,400
there's a trade to be to be made related to

46
00:02:11,439 --> 00:02:13,680
this the answer we arrive at. If we arrive at

47
00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:17,479
an answer, which, knowing me, usually I just end up

48
00:02:17,479 --> 00:02:20,960
with more questions. Or it's gonna impact who's gonna make

49
00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,240
the top four in either conference, or it's gonna impact

50
00:02:23,599 --> 00:02:26,680
you know, probably not a player's legacy necessarily, but there's

51
00:02:26,719 --> 00:02:31,000
got to be like some kind of okay. So we

52
00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,560
got we've got to handle on the basic question, and

53
00:02:33,599 --> 00:02:36,439
then it gives rise to several others that are going

54
00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:39,159
to have some kind of say in what happens the

55
00:02:39,199 --> 00:02:41,000
rest of the way this season. It's not just like

56
00:02:41,039 --> 00:02:44,199
a who's the best at this or like rank this

57
00:02:44,319 --> 00:02:45,919
team or do you know what I mean? There's got

58
00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,960
to be some kind of okay. So we got that handled.

59
00:02:49,319 --> 00:02:51,759
So now we have like, so what is the impact

60
00:02:51,759 --> 00:02:53,840
of that demo line? I don't know, like a longer

61
00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,240
it's got a longer reach than other questions. Like it's

62
00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:57,840
kind of what makes it a burning question? To me?

63
00:02:58,439 --> 00:02:59,520
Speaker 1: I'm pretty bummed.

64
00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,360
Speaker 2: Because I thought this was just going to be legacy

65
00:03:01,479 --> 00:03:04,319
rankings based on this season. But I get to do that,

66
00:03:04,599 --> 00:03:05,159
we get Pitot.

67
00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:09,319
Speaker 1: That's fine, I'm going to be super generous again, just

68
00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:13,560
the charitable nature of my existence is it's beyond compare.

69
00:03:13,599 --> 00:03:16,199
And I'm going to give you the first selection. Where

70
00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:17,039
do you want to take us?

71
00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm going to start at the beginning of the alphabet,

72
00:03:19,759 --> 00:03:22,240
just because that happens to be one of the things

73
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:22,479
we do.

74
00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,080
Speaker 1: You dodge, you ass, Let's do it.

75
00:03:27,159 --> 00:03:31,479
Speaker 2: Let's talk Atlanta Hawks. And the question is that some

76
00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,800
version of are the Hawks better without Trey Young? Now

77
00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:40,400
this is not a new question, but because Young's place

78
00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,280
with the Hawks and really is placed in the league

79
00:03:43,319 --> 00:03:44,719
and sort of what we make of him and his

80
00:03:44,759 --> 00:03:46,960
impact on a team have kind of been an issue

81
00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,400
for almost his whole career, just because of the extremes

82
00:03:50,439 --> 00:03:55,000
that teams led by him tend to embrace. The reason

83
00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:56,919
it's relevant now is because Treyong's out with a knee

84
00:03:56,919 --> 00:03:59,439
injury and has been since the end of October, and

85
00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:05,120
the Hawks have played differently, have in some respects been better,

86
00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,639
in some respects worse. And so we just have a

87
00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:10,479
little bit of a sample now to kind of look

88
00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,000
at and try to figure out what is this team

89
00:04:14,039 --> 00:04:16,120
without Trey Young? Because we have a pretty good idea

90
00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:18,920
of what it has been with him, So just to

91
00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,079
kind of throw some numbers out before we or you know,

92
00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,839
some numbers and some observations out before we kind of

93
00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,120
start to try to tackle this. Young went down with

94
00:04:28,319 --> 00:04:30,839
a knees spraying against the Nets on October twenty ninth.

95
00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,399
The Hawks win that game and then go seven and

96
00:04:33,519 --> 00:04:37,000
four over their next eleven. So that's essentially their record

97
00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,199
without him. Nothing spectacular. And you might say, like, well,

98
00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:42,839
that's roughly in line with where we thought the Hawks

99
00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,800
would be with a healthy Tray Young this season, Like

100
00:04:45,879 --> 00:04:48,160
that's you know, that's a fourth, fifth, sixth, this best

101
00:04:48,199 --> 00:04:50,639
record in the East kind of pace. That's what we

102
00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:55,000
thought this team might do. It's relevant because now these

103
00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,600
stats do not include the most recent Hawks games because

104
00:04:59,319 --> 00:05:02,240
Hawks game because cleaning the Glass went down this morning,

105
00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,480
and they're all updated as of last night, So deal

106
00:05:04,519 --> 00:05:08,519
with it. Young's on off is a minus fifteen this season.

107
00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,560
The Hawks net rating is better significantly without him. That's

108
00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,920
all defense. Their defensive rating is plus fifteen point five

109
00:05:15,959 --> 00:05:17,839
with Young on the floor, meaning it's fifteen and a

110
00:05:17,879 --> 00:05:21,000
half points worse per one hundred. These have all normalized

111
00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,920
a little bit because the Hawks lost their most recent game. Still,

112
00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,839
they'll give you a sense of sort of what we're

113
00:05:26,879 --> 00:05:31,879
dealing with sans Young, Atlanta's two best lineups without him,

114
00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,399
which just to get the principles kind of in order

115
00:05:34,399 --> 00:05:39,120
here Nikhil, Alexander Walker, Dyson, Daniel zacharysche Jalen Johnson, and

116
00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,920
then with Porzingis at the five plus thirteen point one,

117
00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,160
the offensive rating is one twenty four points one. Put

118
00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,360
a Kong Wo in there for Porzingis, who's actually like

119
00:05:48,519 --> 00:05:50,800
just as on the same footing now as a three

120
00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,240
point shooter, which seems relevant to Porzingis uh plus thirty

121
00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,279
two point eight one point fifty offensive rating. These are

122
00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,800
all going to be lower after the game against the Spurs,

123
00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:00,560
but still.

124
00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:02,000
Speaker 1: So.

125
00:06:02,079 --> 00:06:06,040
Speaker 2: Since Trey lefts or went out, the Hawks have really

126
00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,279
only had like two really bad offensive games, which is

127
00:06:09,319 --> 00:06:12,959
where you'd expect the kind of degradation of performance to come.

128
00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,199
You know, you remove this guy that is your offense,

129
00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,639
you're going to suffer there. They've had seven with an

130
00:06:18,639 --> 00:06:20,800
offensive rating of at least one hundred and twenty one

131
00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:25,560
points per hundred, so like that's more than get sufficient. However,

132
00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,000
and the defense has been better obviously that's just like

133
00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,439
they've had much more high turnovernights just because you take

134
00:06:31,519 --> 00:06:34,040
Young off the floor and put just it's basically been

135
00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,199
Alexander Walker, your defensive results are going to be better.

136
00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:41,199
They're turning it over more. They've been susceptible to pressure.

137
00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:43,759
Cleveland really was the first to kind of expose that.

138
00:06:43,879 --> 00:06:45,959
This is now almost two weeks ago we're talking about.

139
00:06:45,959 --> 00:06:47,519
But I don't know if you remember that game, but

140
00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,040
like the Hawk looked really good without Young for a

141
00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,959
couple and then exactly the type of issues you'd expect

142
00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,240
a Rose where they can't get the ball over half court,

143
00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,480
they get it over in the offense stalls because nobody

144
00:06:57,560 --> 00:07:01,360
knows who's supposed to be doing anything. Alexander Walker and

145
00:07:01,439 --> 00:07:04,839
Jalen Johnson have been very very good for like what

146
00:07:04,879 --> 00:07:08,399
they've been up to this point as initiators of that offense.

147
00:07:09,399 --> 00:07:12,920
I'm not one hundred percent, so actually I know I'm

148
00:07:12,959 --> 00:07:15,240
not sold on one or the other of them being

149
00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,639
good enough to be just this is the guy that

150
00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:19,920
runs the show all the time. This is an alpha.

151
00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,800
I think they're both like maybe luxuries as like secondary guys.

152
00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,160
But even as much as Johnson has improved and as

153
00:07:27,199 --> 00:07:30,720
like Alexander Walker at thirty eight against Spurs last night

154
00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,160
as we're recording this and looked incredible. They still their

155
00:07:34,199 --> 00:07:39,199
struggles were turnovers, gummed up offense occasionally. Like both of

156
00:07:39,199 --> 00:07:42,079
those guys are great at what they do. You just

157
00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,079
they're not replicating what Young did as sort of a

158
00:07:44,079 --> 00:07:47,399
be all end all. So that kind of gets to

159
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,079
the next look this because we're still dealing in small

160
00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:55,560
samples and the question that I sort of we need

161
00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:56,480
to tackle is.

162
00:07:59,040 --> 00:07:59,480
Speaker 1: The Hawks.

163
00:07:59,759 --> 00:08:02,920
Speaker 2: Hawk can't be better without Young, They can be different,

164
00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,879
But like if you just take what is so what

165
00:08:06,959 --> 00:08:09,120
is the baseline we're working from? How good have they

166
00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,399
been with Trey as like the alpha? And is that?

167
00:08:13,519 --> 00:08:16,240
What does that mean? So just before we kind of

168
00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,079
answered the ultimate question. Last year with Young on the floor,

169
00:08:20,839 --> 00:08:22,360
all the on off swings, this is a little bit

170
00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,319
of a yokic thing. Are huge with Young because he

171
00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:25,519
makes the offense really good.

172
00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:26,439
Speaker 1: But what is it?

173
00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,040
Speaker 2: And we've talked about this with LaMelo, like always makes

174
00:08:29,079 --> 00:08:31,240
the he makes the offense this much better. Well, but

175
00:08:31,319 --> 00:08:33,039
how good is the offense in raw terms?

176
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:33,480
Speaker 1: Is that?

177
00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,480
Speaker 2: Actually? Good? Is better? Good? Forty three win pace last

178
00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,240
year with Young on the floor, thirty five win pace

179
00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,519
in twenty three twenty four with Young on the floor

180
00:08:43,159 --> 00:08:45,840
h forty five win pace plus one point three and

181
00:08:45,879 --> 00:08:47,799
twenty two to twenty three with Young on the floor.

182
00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,120
Go farther back you get a forty seven win and

183
00:08:50,159 --> 00:08:52,399
a fifty three win way back in twenty twenty one,

184
00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,639
and then a twenty nine win pace in nineteen twenty.

185
00:08:55,759 --> 00:08:59,679
So there's one fifty win pace in there. There's a couple,

186
00:09:00,039 --> 00:09:03,240
there's a thirty, there's some mid forties. That's where you

187
00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,200
are with Trey Young. So I think if this is

188
00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,519
as good as it gets, if that's what you were

189
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,120
with Trey Young leading the team mid load to mid forties,

190
00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,759
let's say on balance with him on the court, why

191
00:09:15,799 --> 00:09:19,399
would you continue to make him a singular figure, a

192
00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,679
guy you might max on an extension as opposed to

193
00:09:23,919 --> 00:09:26,440
looking at what you have with this younger, more athletic,

194
00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:31,039
more balanced cores. Right, Because, like so, I'll just ask you,

195
00:09:31,159 --> 00:09:34,879
is that is that pace? Is that level of production

196
00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,679
with Young as the alpha? And we can talk about

197
00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,200
why this is an unfair question in a second. Is

198
00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,559
that good enough to justify? No, No, we're still built

199
00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,639
around Trey Young. We're not trading him, we are going

200
00:09:46,639 --> 00:09:48,679
to pay him on an extension and continue to be

201
00:09:48,759 --> 00:09:49,840
oriented around him.

202
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,639
Speaker 1: No, it's not, but it's also you kind of have

203
00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:55,440
to look at it through the lens of maybe it's

204
00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,159
maybe it's not about giving him a max contract. Then

205
00:09:58,279 --> 00:10:00,840
if it's to go into free here he declines the

206
00:10:00,879 --> 00:10:03,080
player option, Okay, we're gonna throw you the four year max,

207
00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,519
the five year max here. Then yes, it's a discussion.

208
00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:09,159
But I don't think the pace at which their offense

209
00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,720
is played in many of these lineups without Trey Young

210
00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:15,600
is going to prove sustainable over the longer term. And

211
00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,399
I didn't see their Spurs game, but I saw the

212
00:10:18,399 --> 00:10:21,720
Pistons game, and you know what they lacked cut down

213
00:10:21,759 --> 00:10:23,840
the stretch of that game. It was their offense, Like

214
00:10:23,879 --> 00:10:25,679
you could just see that it's going to eventually get

215
00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,639
clunky without Trey. And I understand that we're now veering

216
00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:33,360
into territory of I'll say myself specifically, Dan said this

217
00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,440
last year too, But like Trey Young shooting under twenty

218
00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:39,639
percent from three, this is just we have not seen

219
00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:41,919
the best version of Tray Young yet. And so I

220
00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:46,759
think what I'm more open minded to is that unless

221
00:10:46,799 --> 00:10:49,840
you think that Tray this is Trey right now, the

222
00:10:49,879 --> 00:10:52,759
Tray that you watched before his knee injury, that this

223
00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,399
is the new version of Tray Young. You have to

224
00:10:55,519 --> 00:10:58,639
let this play out because one, what is the alternative

225
00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:01,440
to move him and do what you're not moving Trey

226
00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,000
Young and getting better? Because if you're moving Trey Young now,

227
00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,879
teams are gonna know one why you're moving him. And

228
00:11:07,919 --> 00:11:10,360
you're also moving him at a time when there's there's

229
00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,399
not a bunch of years left on his contract. He

230
00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,919
hasn't played his best basketball over the past year and change,

231
00:11:16,279 --> 00:11:19,759
I suppose, So what are you actually getting for him?

232
00:11:19,799 --> 00:11:23,399
And then if your I it's tough to build maybe

233
00:11:23,399 --> 00:11:26,080
impossible to build just an elite defense around Trey Young.

234
00:11:26,159 --> 00:11:27,679
Even if you want to point the well like he's

235
00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,039
tried hard during the okay, great, like it's still going

236
00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,639
to be super hard. I still think it's gonna be

237
00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:34,679
harder for that. I don't look at Jellen Johnson, I

238
00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:36,759
don't look at Nikil Alexander Walker. I don't look at

239
00:11:36,759 --> 00:11:39,799
anybody else on this roster and think they can shoulder

240
00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,600
the level of playmaking burden that for everyone else, that

241
00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,200
Trey Young is always going to shoulder. I do also recognize,

242
00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:50,840
though the fact that they've been better offensively this year

243
00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,799
with him off, like off the court, is problematic, but

244
00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,080
also speaks to I think a couple things. A lot

245
00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,360
of those units are gonna be secondary units that you

246
00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:01,399
get to go up against in the first place, and

247
00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,120
I think that's a testament to Atlanta's depth. And then

248
00:12:04,399 --> 00:12:08,519
we've how many times have you heard coaches, even just

249
00:12:08,519 --> 00:12:12,000
the really smart x's and o's analysts, say teams sometimes

250
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,639
are just harder to scout without their best players.

251
00:12:14,879 --> 00:12:17,720
Speaker 2: Yes, I was just gonna say, like, there's there's some

252
00:12:17,879 --> 00:12:20,919
element of teams have prepared to play the Hawks one

253
00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,159
way for as long as a young has been there,

254
00:12:23,639 --> 00:12:26,840
and maybe they're just catching opponents unaware, at least early on,

255
00:12:26,919 --> 00:12:29,279
because it's like, well, who do we even focus on

256
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,240
right as a defense? I want to ask you, though,

257
00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:36,039
the reason the question I posed is unfair, which is, like,

258
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:38,840
you know, if this is as good as it gets,

259
00:12:38,879 --> 00:12:42,679
why would you continue to feature Trey? It's unfair because

260
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,120
like you don't. It's kind of a false choice, like

261
00:12:45,279 --> 00:12:49,799
why why couldn't you embrace all this new talent? Jalen

262
00:12:49,879 --> 00:12:53,480
Johnson's growth Alexander Walker's obvious fitness for like a slightly

263
00:12:53,519 --> 00:12:57,480
scaled up role, a congluse new shooting. Why can't you

264
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,919
have Trey Young with all that right, Like, it doesn't

265
00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,120
have to necessarily be Young and we play this way,

266
00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,759
or these other guys and we play another way, Like

267
00:13:09,399 --> 00:13:13,360
in an ideal world you have everything. You have all

268
00:13:13,399 --> 00:13:16,519
these other secondary creators that are slotted into probably more

269
00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,240
appropriate roles for their skill sets behind Young is the

270
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,960
number one. But that, though, gets to kind of the

271
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,799
core philosophical question here, which is is it possible for

272
00:13:25,919 --> 00:13:29,720
him to be additive to a new identity for this

273
00:13:29,759 --> 00:13:32,960
Hawks team? Or is Trey one of those kinds of

274
00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,799
players that I fixate on constantly? I think this is

275
00:13:36,879 --> 00:13:40,279
montellas scar tissue from going on twenty years ago. Now,

276
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,000
is he someone that can only be the player around

277
00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,240
whom your team's identity is built? Can he only be that?

278
00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,360
Or can you scale like scale down? Scale up is

279
00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,159
kind of the wrong terminology. Additive is what I like?

280
00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,840
Can he be an additive piece to what you're doing

281
00:13:57,879 --> 00:14:01,440
as opposed to the thing that defines it? What do

282
00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:05,120
you think, like, does Trey is Trey Ung only? Can

283
00:14:05,159 --> 00:14:07,279
you only use him one way or can he be

284
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:08,919
part of a more collective group.

285
00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,120
Speaker 1: I watch him and think that he can be part

286
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,559
of more of a collective group, and you see even

287
00:14:17,639 --> 00:14:20,919
last year more things happening with him away from the ball.

288
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,000
But I do constantly come back to the fact that

289
00:14:24,639 --> 00:14:27,600
it never feels like it's upticked in a way that

290
00:14:27,639 --> 00:14:30,720
we even saw with Luca. Let's use Luka Doncrich and

291
00:14:30,799 --> 00:14:34,399
Kyrie Irvy as an example. Those two together. The sample

292
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,720
size isn't the largest, but like Luca played when he

293
00:14:37,759 --> 00:14:39,759
wasn't injured off the ball more, he was able to

294
00:14:39,759 --> 00:14:42,000
play faster more. And I think we've seen Trey at

295
00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,440
least up the speed like that hasn't really been an issue,

296
00:14:45,559 --> 00:14:48,279
But there's never been what feels like more of a

297
00:14:48,279 --> 00:14:50,919
wholesale shift. But then what I constantly come back to

298
00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,080
the fact is, well, is there someone they've had that

299
00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,759
is good enough to justify making that wholesale shift? And

300
00:14:57,799 --> 00:15:00,559
I'm open to well, I'm not open. I would and say, well,

301
00:15:00,759 --> 00:15:04,360
Jalen Johnson, idiot, that's the answer. Awesome, how many games

302
00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,559
has Jalen Johnson missed over the past shureers and so

303
00:15:07,679 --> 00:15:10,039
creating that dynamic I wonder if there's been sort of

304
00:15:10,039 --> 00:15:14,639
some shifting floors below that. It's I think shocker. I

305
00:15:14,679 --> 00:15:17,360
do land where you kind of do where. I don't

306
00:15:17,399 --> 00:15:19,960
think they're this team currently. I don't think they're better

307
00:15:20,039 --> 00:15:22,919
off without Trey Young. I think that they would maybe

308
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,399
during the regular season they might be fun. But there's

309
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,039
also other guys on this team. Yet, Trey Young hasn't

310
00:15:28,039 --> 00:15:30,279
maybe had his healthiest run of basketball. He was dealing

311
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,759
with achilles stuff last year. But what are we Christophe

312
00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:37,000
porzingis hardly a billboard for good health. Jalen Johnson like

313
00:15:37,039 --> 00:15:39,679
he's ended up missing time over the past few years.

314
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,720
It's very to me it feels without Trey Young that

315
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,480
the offense, even if you like the aesthetics better, even

316
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,440
if you think the way they're playing is freer, just

317
00:15:49,639 --> 00:15:52,759
overall better, it's more house of card z E than

318
00:15:52,799 --> 00:15:55,799
an off you have a higher floor. I think with

319
00:15:55,879 --> 00:15:59,799
Trey Young and all his flaws, I do think that

320
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,480
kind of answers the question of well, do you trade

321
00:16:03,519 --> 00:16:05,240
him or suld you be shopping him right now? But

322
00:16:05,279 --> 00:16:07,559
it makes it harder to evalue. It still does make

323
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:09,840
it harder to all the points that you made. He

324
00:16:09,879 --> 00:16:12,159
has a player option for next season. What are you

325
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,159
doing with that at this point? No, I'm not maxing

326
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,039
him out. But if you're Trey Young and the Spurs

327
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:22,120
gave the Aaron Fox, the the no must no fuss Max,

328
00:16:22,159 --> 00:16:24,960
he barely played for them, barely played alongside Victor Wimanyama,

329
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:26,559
and they gave it to him, I'm sure he's going

330
00:16:26,639 --> 00:16:30,519
to be expecting something similar. And I will say, there's

331
00:16:30,559 --> 00:16:33,440
no scenario in which he goes into Atlanta next year

332
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,360
on an expiring contract right where he exercises that player

333
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:37,840
option is still on the Hawks.

334
00:16:38,279 --> 00:16:41,919
Speaker 2: It's I mean, it's hard, it's it seems very unlikely, right.

335
00:16:42,279 --> 00:16:47,240
I think, however, I think if I'm the Hawks, this

336
00:16:48,039 --> 00:16:50,080
I'm not. I think No, I think if I'm the Hawks,

337
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,679
I would prefer that to a rubber stamped MAX extension.

338
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,720
I just think, because my as the Hawks, my vision

339
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,799
of the next five years is not us playing the

340
00:17:01,799 --> 00:17:03,960
same way we have with Trey Young over the last

341
00:17:04,079 --> 00:17:08,200
five plus. Like I, what I want is a version

342
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,880
of Young that is not dominating the ball quite as

343
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,519
much as he is, that is more a piece of

344
00:17:14,559 --> 00:17:18,880
what we do than the thing that dictates everything. And

345
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,680
I want to pay him that way, not as the

346
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,880
guy that like he's. There are certain like high usage

347
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,119
on ball superstars that are good enough to max out

348
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,799
and you just fit everything around them. That's a really

349
00:17:30,839 --> 00:17:33,880
short list, and it's it's you know, all NBA guys,

350
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,799
top ten guys, right, And I don't think anyone would

351
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,240
argue Young is at that level. And so to me,

352
00:17:40,079 --> 00:17:45,759
if he's not willing to be compensated like someone who

353
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,319
can can dominate a game for us night tonight, but

354
00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:52,359
we're not. Our goal is not for that to be

355
00:17:52,559 --> 00:17:56,319
how we survive or or fail. I want to pay

356
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,799
him like that. The the other thing we need to

357
00:17:59,799 --> 00:18:03,440
think about, and I would ask you this is for

358
00:18:03,599 --> 00:18:06,400
purposes of long term planning and for purposes of what

359
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,039
do we do answering the what do we do with

360
00:18:08,079 --> 00:18:11,960
Trey Young question? From Atlanta's perspective, how much is the

361
00:18:12,039 --> 00:18:15,920
high likelihood of you drafting the next Alpha with the

362
00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:21,039
New Orleans Pelicans pick this coming June affecting your thinking? Oh,

363
00:18:22,319 --> 00:18:25,279
let's say it's aj Debantza or Drew. Let's just say

364
00:18:25,319 --> 00:18:29,680
you you you pick first, You're gonna get someone In

365
00:18:29,799 --> 00:18:34,359
theory that like is you will orient your franchise around

366
00:18:34,599 --> 00:18:38,240
and you have a young enough complimentary core porzingis accepted

367
00:18:39,079 --> 00:18:41,680
to just reorient or it's like we okay, yeah, we

368
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,119
lost an alpha that could get us to play at

369
00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:47,640
a forty three win pace. New guy, new guy in town?

370
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:51,319
Speaker 1: Is it that's still wanted? Decision though, that you would

371
00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:53,799
then the Tray Young stuff. You're still waiting to address

372
00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:56,119
it until the off season, then, right, because you don't

373
00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:56,799
feel yes.

374
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,440
Speaker 2: But it's got to impact it, Right, it's got it.

375
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,559
Speaker 1: I think it's impacts it. But doesn't it sort of

376
00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:05,240
support the idea that if you are going that direction,

377
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:09,079
this isn't the Hawks are immediately getting better without Trey Young.

378
00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,039
This is they've decided to reset. And if that's the goal,

379
00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,119
if what you said all at the top of it,

380
00:19:14,279 --> 00:19:16,920
we're at the close of your opening monologue of it

381
00:19:17,279 --> 00:19:20,200
saying this has been their ceiling basically with yeah, they

382
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:21,799
made the conference finals that one year, but this has

383
00:19:21,839 --> 00:19:23,920
sort of been their ceiling. If they sit there and

384
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,319
they decide made four, he's maybe contending for a top

385
00:19:27,319 --> 00:19:29,079
four spot in the East, never getting back to the

386
00:19:29,079 --> 00:19:32,880
conference finals. We're not into that for the next half decade.

387
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:37,039
You're then actively deciding that's fine. Like again, I would

388
00:19:37,039 --> 00:19:39,599
support that decision. If you're going to go through it

389
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:41,799
doesn't have to be a teardown or you trade everyone,

390
00:19:41,839 --> 00:19:45,079
but you're looking to reorient for the longer game. Around

391
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:49,599
that Pelicans pick Jalen Johnson Resus Shay maybe, like by

392
00:19:49,599 --> 00:19:53,880
the way, sort of the unspoken part of all this

393
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,319
is that, like Dyson, Daniels just has not been good offensively.

394
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,839
Speaker 2: To me, here is so bad against the in that game.

395
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,759
Speaker 1: It he just can't under like thirty five percent on

396
00:20:04,839 --> 00:20:07,680
drives this year, and it's honestly, I would argue it's

397
00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,400
borderlined inexcusable because when you look at Oh Kunglu, like

398
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,359
how many minutes are the Hawks playing with a stretch

399
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,480
big Almost all of them? Yes, And so that's you know,

400
00:20:19,519 --> 00:20:21,359
we're not sitting here most should they have not given

401
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,400
him that extension that they gave him. So I feel

402
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,559
like Trey is just this frequent pariah and deserves it

403
00:20:27,599 --> 00:20:30,480
to some extent. But I would on this issue, I

404
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,640
would wind up saying, if you think you're better off

405
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:35,480
without Trey Young, it's because you want to hit the

406
00:20:35,519 --> 00:20:37,559
reset button. I think if the Hawks want to make

407
00:20:37,599 --> 00:20:41,279
the most of this season, they need Trey Young. They

408
00:20:41,279 --> 00:20:44,680
need him to be better, certainly from his own efficiency perspective,

409
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,559
but it's if it's not him who is just in

410
00:20:47,599 --> 00:20:50,240
the half quarter you trusting to generate shots for others

411
00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:51,720
at the rim like he can.

412
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,559
Speaker 2: Here's the thing, there is a scenario to me where

413
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,640
Jalen Johnson at this time next year is is at

414
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,359
a level where you're a better team built aroun him

415
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:01,440
than you are around Trey Young.

416
00:21:01,599 --> 00:21:01,960
Speaker 1: I don't know.

417
00:21:02,519 --> 00:21:04,799
Speaker 2: I don't think he's there yet, but I think Johnson

418
00:21:04,839 --> 00:21:07,400
has shown enough growth. And again the health question is

419
00:21:08,039 --> 00:21:11,039
I mean, might just decide the issue with him and

420
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,559
has been part of the problem so far. But the

421
00:21:13,599 --> 00:21:15,839
way he's progressed and some of the flashes that he

422
00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,839
does shows like get to I mean just to invoke

423
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,359
like a very unfair comparison, getting to almost like a

424
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,400
Kate Cunningham level. Like I'm not closing the door on

425
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,680
that at all with him, but I am saying he's

426
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,119
not there yet, So there're to me, this is like

427
00:21:33,799 --> 00:21:37,319
this is obviously sort of a deliberately sensational kind of question.

428
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,559
It's too like spur a discussion, right, are the Hawks

429
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,920
better without Trey Young? There's so many nuances that go

430
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,599
into this. I think I agree with you that the

431
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:49,640
answer at the moment is probably not. I think longer term,

432
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,440
I would disagree a little bit that if you move

433
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,240
on from Trey Young, I don't think it's necessarily a reset.

434
00:21:55,319 --> 00:21:59,119
I think it's we believe in the other guys getting better,

435
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,640
Johnson in particul killer, and we believe in our ability

436
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,160
to maybe get another core piece through this upcoming draft

437
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,440
that lifts us to a higher level. Having said all that,

438
00:22:09,799 --> 00:22:12,279
I really want to see when Young is back, can

439
00:22:12,319 --> 00:22:14,640
he fit into what's happening here and can it be

440
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,160
a balance between the way he's played throughout his career

441
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,559
and the extremes that that has created. Can you balance

442
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,200
that with like what should be a good defense and

443
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,000
which should be like a pretty egalitarian offense there certainly

444
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,160
could be like Alexander Walker as your third option, Like

445
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,119
that's I mean, that's a real that's a scary offense, right,

446
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,920
talk about not knowing how to tackle that as a defense.

447
00:22:37,559 --> 00:22:39,920
So I would like to see if this can all

448
00:22:40,039 --> 00:22:42,000
if the Hawks can kind of have it all, you know,

449
00:22:42,519 --> 00:22:45,440
once Young is back and up to speed and integrated.

450
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:50,000
Before I before I really conclude like, nope, we topped

451
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,720
out with Trey. We got to take take another path.

452
00:22:53,559 --> 00:22:56,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't really, I didn't ask this to you

453
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,480
after you asked to me. Do you think he's capable

454
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,519
of fitting in to this type of ecosystem? I'm not worry.

455
00:23:01,559 --> 00:23:03,440
I'm really not worried about the speed they got out

456
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,279
in transition so much more last year with him. But

457
00:23:07,319 --> 00:23:10,160
I'm just curious if it's not will he Do you

458
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,039
think that he is looking at what he's able to

459
00:23:12,079 --> 00:23:13,720
do or how you've seen him play, do you think

460
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:14,680
that he is capable?

461
00:23:15,079 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 2: Is it this ultimately the core question here? I think

462
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,640
I think we've like this. You sort of arrived at it,

463
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,200
and so this was actually gonna be my bonus philosophical question.

464
00:23:23,279 --> 00:23:27,359
So I'm glad you got to it independently. I have

465
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:33,119
a hard time separating sort of my preferences about how

466
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,039
basketball should be played, like to my aesthetic. I like,

467
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,599
I didn't enjoy the James Harden Rockets all that much

468
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,279
because it was just one dude doing all this stuff

469
00:23:43,759 --> 00:23:46,920
and everybody else depended on him, and it worked really well.

470
00:23:47,039 --> 00:23:49,039
That team could have won a title if you just

471
00:23:49,279 --> 00:23:54,000
plopped it into some random gar the Luca Mavericks, you know,

472
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,119
acknowledge his greatness, don't love watching it. Same with Trey

473
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,440
to a lesser extent, I don't, And maybe like my

474
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:07,400
personal aesthetic preferences. And just like basketball philosophies are bleeding

475
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,799
their gospel as far as I'm but but you know

476
00:24:09,799 --> 00:24:11,839
what I mean, like it's bleeding into my answer to

477
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,440
this question, which is like I I would like to

478
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,400
see it. I just think there are certain guys that

479
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,839
they play a certain way and you got to build

480
00:24:20,839 --> 00:24:23,000
the team around them in a certain way. And if

481
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,680
you try to mess with that, one they get pissed

482
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,039
off and don't like it and maybe want to leave,

483
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,359
or two they just can't. And Young is such an

484
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,640
extreme version of this because he is small, he cannot guard,

485
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,359
He's never shown a sustainability to play off the ball

486
00:24:38,759 --> 00:24:42,319
and to like be a connective guy. His whole career

487
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,200
collegiate professional has been just the be all end all

488
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:51,640
for his team's offense. And maybe he can I'm skeptical

489
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,079
that he can be part of like a just a

490
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:59,519
more collective thing in Atlanta. And I don't even know

491
00:25:00,039 --> 00:25:03,119
if you're maximizing his value that way. That's that's the

492
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,960
hang up with all of this is like to get

493
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,720
the absolute best out of Young and your team with

494
00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:10,680
him on it, I think you play a certain way

495
00:25:11,079 --> 00:25:13,160
and that's because he's not good at so many other

496
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,319
things you would need like a more complimentary guy to

497
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,720
be good at. So that my answer is, like, I

498
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,519
guess I'm skeptical that you can integrate Young and sort

499
00:25:22,519 --> 00:25:23,960
of have it both ways. What do you think?

500
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: I think he's capable, I don't know if he's going

501
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,440
to And I also think part of that is now

502
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:34,880
that you have Jalen Johnson, it's less ex I just

503
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,960
don't like this. This feels like the season if Jalen

504
00:25:38,039 --> 00:25:40,400
Johnson's healthy, you have all this space in the front line,

505
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,200
you have your minutes independent of Dice and Daniels, Like

506
00:25:44,279 --> 00:25:46,960
this is the season that it would be. I think

507
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,680
the bigger question for me might be what is even

508
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,039
with that version of Trey Young? Do you think this is?

509
00:25:53,079 --> 00:25:56,000
My bigger question is do you think that the defense

510
00:25:56,039 --> 00:25:59,119
can ever be good enough to win at the highest level?

511
00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:03,680
And that's I mean they have They're as close as

512
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,000
you can get to feeling like they have enough personnel

513
00:26:06,079 --> 00:26:07,039
to do that, right.

514
00:26:07,519 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 2: I think it's easier now than it's been in a

515
00:26:11,079 --> 00:26:15,640
very long time to put together a really great defense

516
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,920
with a player like Young involved in it. You just

517
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,759
teams are better at hiding guys like that than they've

518
00:26:21,799 --> 00:26:25,400
ever been. There's more zone being played that there's been

519
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,759
in a very long time. I mean, you're just in

520
00:26:28,839 --> 00:26:31,119
your set defense a lot less this year than than

521
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,119
you've ever been, So like maybe the damage is mitigated

522
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,920
because you're not going against of course that I don't know.

523
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:42,240
I think it's possible. It's funny, like my hang ups

524
00:26:42,279 --> 00:26:46,119
and my reservations about the Hawks like almost come more

525
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:49,599
the defense is like, yeah, that's issue for sure, It's

526
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,559
been for his whole career. I'm just more concerned with,

527
00:26:52,599 --> 00:26:54,440
like what kind of team are we? Like are we

528
00:26:54,599 --> 00:26:57,319
just built around this guy and everybody else is diminished

529
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,880
because of it? Or can we be a collective like that?

530
00:27:00,559 --> 00:27:02,359
And that doesn't have as much to do with defense

531
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:03,759
as maybe what you're asking.

532
00:27:04,559 --> 00:27:06,559
Speaker 1: No, it doesn't. I think what you're saying is the

533
00:27:06,599 --> 00:27:10,680
idealized version of him is almost that Luka Doncic version

534
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,599
in Dallas where they were getting out in transition with him,

535
00:27:13,599 --> 00:27:15,559
he wasn't always on the ball as much when he

536
00:27:15,599 --> 00:27:17,920
was next to because what is and I guess in

537
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,359
theory you could do that next to Jalen Johnson.

538
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, But I.

539
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: Don't know it's fair because you've just never seen him

540
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,799
toggle the switch on and off or handle the duality

541
00:27:27,839 --> 00:27:29,599
of it. It's it does feel like this is the

542
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,319
season to where if it doesn't happen, it's not even

543
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,119
if you believe Tree Young can still do it, I

544
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:35,680
don't know that he's going to get the opportunity to

545
00:27:35,759 --> 00:27:36,319
do it Atlanta.

546
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 2: I'd be honest with you, that's at some point that

547
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,240
like the shelf life is what it is, and you

548
00:27:40,279 --> 00:27:42,440
go seventy eight years with the guy and you just

549
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,400
don't ever really win big time. It's like it just

550
00:27:45,519 --> 00:27:46,559
the cycle continues.

551
00:27:47,599 --> 00:27:50,680
Speaker 1: Twenty plus minutes on the Atlanta Hawks. So our national

552
00:27:50,839 --> 00:27:53,599
NBA podcast has done that recently. We're going to do

553
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,359
another team that national podcasts don't talk about. Grant, I

554
00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:02,039
have a question, how good are the Lakers really? Are they? Oh,

555
00:28:02,319 --> 00:28:05,599
you know, this is a foremost threat in the Western Conference? Good?

556
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,519
Top four in the West, good, top three in the

557
00:28:07,559 --> 00:28:11,880
West good? Or are they confusingly good to where they belong?

558
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,960
In kind of the middle tier along with the Minnesota Timberwolves,

559
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,960
where the Spurs are right now. The Phoenix Suns apparently

560
00:28:18,079 --> 00:28:21,359
are they just not going to continue winning at their

561
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,799
current clip, even though now they're as healthy as they've

562
00:28:23,839 --> 00:28:26,960
been because Lebron James is back, Luka Doncic's back, Austin

563
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:32,000
Reeves is on the floor. I went into this with

564
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:37,400
no strong opinion either way, in part because my priors

565
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,839
were I didn't think the Lakers were going to be

566
00:28:41,559 --> 00:28:44,000
a heavyweight in the West, not that they were going

567
00:28:44,079 --> 00:28:46,079
to be bad because you have Luca, you have reason,

568
00:28:46,119 --> 00:28:48,039
you have Lebron. But if you would have told me

569
00:28:48,079 --> 00:28:50,400
that Lebron was gonna miss the first was it fourteen

570
00:28:50,519 --> 00:28:53,039
fifteen games of the season, and that they would be

571
00:28:53,119 --> 00:28:55,720
eleven and four, I probably would have said no, especially

572
00:28:55,759 --> 00:29:00,440
with Luca missing some time sprinkled in there. So I'm looking.

573
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,480
I'm why by the way, the Lebron returned, Just to

574
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:05,000
touch on that really quickly, I was a little bit.

575
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,039
I had to remind myself earlier on throughout that game

576
00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:11,880
against the Jazz, okay, he hasn't played in a really

577
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,359
long time, because it felt like a lot of bystander stuff,

578
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,920
even on defense, and he finishes with twelve assists, six

579
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,440
of which come in the fourth quarter. And that was

580
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,880
just the It felt like, Okay, this is the vision

581
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,920
born to fruition. Lebron is going to pick and choose

582
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,720
his spots more than ever we've seen it. But now

583
00:29:30,759 --> 00:29:34,279
you have Reeves, now you have Luca and the effortlessness

584
00:29:34,599 --> 00:29:36,599
with which he just felt like there was just finding

585
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,599
the diving Jackson Hayes, some chemistry with DeAndre Ayton, the

586
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,480
some of the obscene passes he could just throw like

587
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,759
that I think was Jake Laavia caught one in the

588
00:29:45,799 --> 00:29:49,720
far corner, clearly wasn't expecting anyone to throw that. It

589
00:29:49,799 --> 00:29:52,799
was a reminder that Lebron can still just be really useful.

590
00:29:53,039 --> 00:29:55,559
Where Ever, since Luca's come over in the trade, it's

591
00:29:55,599 --> 00:29:58,279
been kind of well the Lakers around Luca's timeline. This

592
00:29:58,279 --> 00:30:00,400
doesn't have to do with Lebron. He's definitely leave after

593
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,000
this season. I'm wondering if that casts a pal over this,

594
00:30:04,279 --> 00:30:05,880
you know, year, rest of the year at all. His

595
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,720
future there, but his ability to fit in I'd like

596
00:30:08,759 --> 00:30:10,799
to see more stuff. Can he be used as the screener?

597
00:30:10,799 --> 00:30:13,519
Can he be just because I don't DeAndre Ayton's been fine.

598
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,799
Jackson Hayes has been fine. I don't love either of them.

599
00:30:16,799 --> 00:30:18,559
I think they've been fine, like till we use Lebron

600
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:20,039
like maybe in the short role a little bit. How

601
00:30:20,039 --> 00:30:22,519
many times? How many years have we been asking for that? Though?

602
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,319
But I'm watching them and the biggest question I still

603
00:30:27,359 --> 00:30:29,880
have will be on the defensive end, because the offense

604
00:30:30,039 --> 00:30:33,039
just its ceiling is what did we used to say?

605
00:30:33,079 --> 00:30:37,559
It's thermonuclear as And they're only eighth in point score

606
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,759
per possession, but just like they're winning the minutes that

607
00:30:41,839 --> 00:30:46,519
Austin Reeves plays without Luka Doncic, you can't, like, you

608
00:30:46,599 --> 00:30:50,000
just can't defend this team on pick and rolls right

609
00:30:50,039 --> 00:30:52,359
now because of what Austin Reeves is able to do,

610
00:30:52,799 --> 00:30:56,160
what Luka Doncic is able to do. The Lakers Grant

611
00:30:56,519 --> 00:31:00,640
are averaging one point one to two points persession in

612
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,920
the pick and roll. This is their ball handlers reversion

613
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,039
one point one to two points per possession. That's first.

614
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:11,759
The delta between them and second place OKAC is the

615
00:31:11,799 --> 00:31:15,400
same as the delta between second place OKC and twentieth

616
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,920
place Chicago. OKAC is averaging point nine to eight points

617
00:31:20,319 --> 00:31:23,960
per possession their pick and roll ball handlers are that

618
00:31:24,119 --> 00:31:28,160
is just absurd. I think we're also seeing the benefits

619
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,920
of Marcus Smart as an example, by his standards, has

620
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,240
been pretty efficient when they've had him run some stuff

621
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,079
to where in Memphis and even at times in Boston

622
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,400
had to be almost the primary guy when they were

623
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,200
shorthanded or you were looking at him to run the

624
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,880
offense when it's Reeves or when there's Luca there, It

625
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,319
just makes life so much easier on him. Reeves and

626
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,759
Luca and now Lebron are all going to make their

627
00:31:50,759 --> 00:31:51,359
big men.

628
00:31:51,279 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 2: Look far better. This team hasn't even started hitting its

629
00:31:54,519 --> 00:31:57,680
threes at the cliffew On Lucas still sub I think

630
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,319
thirty sub thirty three percent or whatever it is. They're

631
00:32:01,359 --> 00:32:04,319
also just I look at some of their lineups and

632
00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:06,680
part of me is, well, shouldn't they be trying to

633
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,119
squeeze in more of the defensive bodies here? And I

634
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,319
look at Ruy Hachima as that guy to say like,

635
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:18,359
how necessary is he? And he's just been efficient as hell.

636
00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:20,720
He is shooting sixty plus.

637
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,599
Speaker 1: Percent on long mid range jumpers and sixty two percent

638
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,440
from mid range overall thirty one to fifty this year

639
00:32:26,759 --> 00:32:31,039
to go with the usual reliance, like I should say,

640
00:32:31,119 --> 00:32:34,200
usually reliable three point shooting. Since he's arrived in La.

641
00:32:34,279 --> 00:32:36,640
I know he gets table set a lot now, but

642
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,839
he's shooting what he is from mid range. You have

643
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,119
that dependable threat from beyond the arc. What it's really

644
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,240
allowing the Lakers to do? Because I look at them

645
00:32:44,359 --> 00:32:48,599
eighth in offense. That feels too low, seventeenth in defense,

646
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,240
that feels too high. I look at this group and

647
00:32:51,279 --> 00:32:54,200
I think, why aren't they worse? There's value? What did

648
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,799
you say before with the Hawks? You're not getting your

649
00:32:56,839 --> 00:32:59,960
offense set as often, it feels like anymore. The Lakers

650
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,680
getting their offense set a lot, and that invariably should

651
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,400
help their defense in some situations, it actually has not.

652
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:13,440
They're bottom five in defense after they make a three.

653
00:33:13,759 --> 00:33:16,319
They're also six in points allowed for possession after they

654
00:33:16,359 --> 00:33:19,000
miss a shot, and so like they are making efforts

655
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,759
to get back where I think when you look at

656
00:33:22,759 --> 00:33:25,519
this team and the chemistry that it feels like, I

657
00:33:25,559 --> 00:33:29,400
don't know what a Reeves, Dancic Lebron, what does that

658
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,799
trio look like? How what's the interplay look like with

659
00:33:31,839 --> 00:33:34,559
them together? We've seen one game this season of it.

660
00:33:34,839 --> 00:33:37,359
I don't know what we want more of or what

661
00:33:37,359 --> 00:33:40,519
we're gonna see down the line, but what they're able

662
00:33:40,559 --> 00:33:44,640
to do just with their based offense, base offense, excuse me,

663
00:33:44,759 --> 00:33:48,319
gives them such a high floor that I'm now wondering

664
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,400
maybe I was just too low on the Lakers coming

665
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:51,880
in here.

666
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,279
Speaker 2: And I still have questions about the defense. But if

667
00:33:55,319 --> 00:33:58,599
they can be seventeenth in defense and they're not getting

668
00:33:59,079 --> 00:34:01,720
like you dig into the day, they're not getting super

669
00:34:01,799 --> 00:34:05,599
lucky on opponent three point shooting, and it's just not

670
00:34:06,519 --> 00:34:08,639
you start to think, okay, like there might be a

671
00:34:08,679 --> 00:34:11,639
better team here than expected. For me, I still think

672
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:16,079
they need some more two way perimeter players, and I

673
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:18,800
don't look DeAndre Ayton has been good. I think that

674
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:20,360
he's helped them. You get to a point where you

675
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,800
are top ten in defensive rebounding. That's another thing that

676
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,719
helps your defense. It gets underrated sometimes, but ending possessions

677
00:34:27,039 --> 00:34:29,679
like that's a big deal. You also put some of

678
00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:31,159
the other things I look at, and just the way

679
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:34,119
some of the players are ending Luka Dacric is contesting

680
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,199
more shots at the rim than ever. I don't know

681
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:37,840
how to feel about that. Is that a good thing,

682
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:40,480
is it a bad thing? A zero idea? And that's

683
00:34:40,559 --> 00:34:43,199
I haven't mentioned him too much here, but like he

684
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,880
just looks great, like he just when he's healthy.

685
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: He just looks like he's moving super well. Everyone's going

686
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,920
to focus on the feltz felt physique. Sure, I'm sure

687
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,920
that's helping. He's going to be more efficient from three

688
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:57,800
point range. You have what we did an extensive episode

689
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,400
on Austin Reeves before. He is just one of the

690
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,159
most efficient, high volume ball handlers in the league right now,

691
00:35:04,199 --> 00:35:06,559
one point twenty six points per possession out of the

692
00:35:06,559 --> 00:35:08,519
pick and roll. That's a pretty big deal when you

693
00:35:08,599 --> 00:35:11,719
consider basically half his minutes come without Luca, so he's

694
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,639
not always benefiting from that gravity. Look at the decisions

695
00:35:14,639 --> 00:35:16,400
that he's been able to make out of double teams

696
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,840
when he's getting near the basket. This team, I don't

697
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,639
know that I underestimated them offensively, but I think I

698
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,920
might have underestimated their overall ceiling. I now throw it

699
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,280
to you, how good are the Lakers really?

700
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 2: I think I'd start by saying a couple thinks have

701
00:35:33,599 --> 00:35:40,719
broken very right for them. The Luca health fitness activity

702
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,519
being on just the absolute highest possible side of expectations, right.

703
00:35:44,519 --> 00:35:46,000
I think some of the reasons we might have been

704
00:35:46,039 --> 00:35:49,400
skeptical was one like, oh, how what's Lebron going to look? Like?

705
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,400
How much can he play? And then I don't know,

706
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,519
let's for me at least, let's let's see Luca do it.

707
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:59,239
Let's see him stay healthy before we say okay, yeah,

708
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:04,119
the conditioning and off court whatever stuff that the thing

709
00:36:04,159 --> 00:36:07,400
of the past, like we've He's definitely delivered on that front.

710
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,440
So like one of the biggest reasons for skepticism is

711
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,920
not one now at least so far. And Austin Reives

712
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:14,679
leveling up. I don't know if that's more or less

713
00:36:14,679 --> 00:36:18,239
sprizing than Luca just being this version of himself. I

714
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,880
didn't see Austin Reeves having like another leap like this

715
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,119
in him. Maybe he just needed the opportunity. I don't know.

716
00:36:26,039 --> 00:36:28,599
So those have been positive breaks. Lebron missing time has

717
00:36:28,639 --> 00:36:32,119
been a negative. I still think so Like if you

718
00:36:32,199 --> 00:36:35,320
had said, going in Reeves is gonna play like this

719
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,119
and Luca is gonna play like this, you would have

720
00:36:38,159 --> 00:36:40,639
probably said, well, this offense is gonna be top five offense,

721
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:42,920
just just because how could it not be if Luca

722
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,760
and just some dudes when Luca is his best self

723
00:36:46,119 --> 00:36:49,519
is a top five offense. I think that the answer

724
00:36:49,599 --> 00:36:52,320
to how good are the Lakers really still has to

725
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,480
hinge on the defense and how much you believe in it,

726
00:36:54,519 --> 00:36:56,480
because the other thing we talked about a lot coming

727
00:36:56,559 --> 00:36:59,639
in the season was with the Lakers' best lineups on

728
00:36:59,639 --> 00:37:02,239
the floor, there will be three guys that opposing teams

729
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:04,679
go at, and this is probably more of a playoff question.

730
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:06,719
You're gonna go at Reeves, You're gonna go at don

731
00:37:07,079 --> 00:37:09,039
if only because you need to try to wear them out.

732
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,639
You might go all Lebron because you'd like to see

733
00:37:11,639 --> 00:37:13,440
if at his age, can he hold up over and

734
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,400
over that Now you can only go one guy per possession,

735
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,360
so maybe they could spread the load, and we just

736
00:37:18,599 --> 00:37:22,760
didn't account for that when thinking about the defensive vulnerability here.

737
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,199
But I still am skeptical that this is like this

738
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,480
is and again this is probably more of a playoff question,

739
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,159
that this is a team that can win seven. You know,

740
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,840
I guess let's say three playoff rounds, because the defense

741
00:37:36,559 --> 00:37:39,039
just doesn't seem like it has the personnel in the

742
00:37:39,039 --> 00:37:43,239
biggest moments to really be a strength. And like you said,

743
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,199
what it's seventeenth right now, so like and they're also

744
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,480
the strength that's been fine, right.

745
00:37:48,559 --> 00:37:49,519
Speaker 1: It's well, it's been.

746
00:37:49,559 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 2: But the fact that seventeenth, I said, that feels too

747
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,760
good seaks to my view of their personnel.

748
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,519
Speaker 1: Look, you're not gonna win. To your point, you're not winning.

749
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,599
I don't think you're winning never mind three. You're not

750
00:37:59,639 --> 00:38:01,440
winning two two playoff series in the West. If you

751
00:38:01,519 --> 00:38:04,559
rank in the bottom ten of efficiency allowed from both

752
00:38:04,599 --> 00:38:06,599
three and at the rim. I don't care what types

753
00:38:06,599 --> 00:38:09,119
of shots you're allowing, you're just not going to You're

754
00:38:09,119 --> 00:38:10,679
not gonna win two playoff series.

755
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, happening. So I think it's fair to say the

756
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,199
Lakers are better than either of us thought. But how

757
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:19,960
much better? Because what was there over under? Like we

758
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:21,440
both went under, I think, but it was because it

759
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,559
was like forty nine or forty eight or something in

760
00:38:23,599 --> 00:38:29,440
that range. If memory serves, which usually it doesn't, I

761
00:38:29,519 --> 00:38:32,760
don't think that they are on the level of some

762
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,000
teams we're going to talk about later. Like certainly Okay

763
00:38:35,039 --> 00:38:40,039
sees its own thing, but like Houston, Houston Denver skeptical, right,

764
00:38:40,119 --> 00:38:43,039
and like Houston is not a perfect team either, as

765
00:38:43,079 --> 00:38:45,000
we're going to talk about. So I would say the

766
00:38:45,079 --> 00:38:48,800
Lakers are certainly better than I thought, but I still

767
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:50,199
have real questions about the defense.

768
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,559
Speaker 1: Well here's the sort of fight and like to their point,

769
00:38:53,679 --> 00:38:55,920
they do have just some like really good wins. Though

770
00:38:56,199 --> 00:38:59,719
this year beat you beat the Wolves when you didn't

771
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,840
have or Lebron you be I think the Wolves when

772
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:04,679
you did have Luca and Austin Reeves and that was

773
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,840
the one time the Wolves had Anthony Edwards. I believe

774
00:39:08,599 --> 00:39:10,559
they did lose the Golden State to open the season.

775
00:39:10,599 --> 00:39:12,079
But my question, I guess to you is, and I

776
00:39:12,079 --> 00:39:13,719
think you do need to see more of Okay, well

777
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,280
what does this look like with Lebron James And I

778
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,039
think it's I think the office is just gonna get better.

779
00:39:19,079 --> 00:39:22,360
He's probably even gonna help them get out and transition more,

780
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:23,920
just like with a hit head pass. And that's what

781
00:39:24,199 --> 00:39:25,719
is that one of the things we don't appreciate about

782
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:27,679
him enough or is it adequately appreciated? Whereas it when

783
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:29,719
he wants to that dude just still just like gets

784
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,119
up and down the floor on offense with the ball

785
00:39:32,119 --> 00:39:35,840
in his hands. But are they good enough to view

786
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,440
this season as well. We shoot, because we kind of

787
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:41,599
looked at it as they're gonna play out this season,

788
00:39:41,599 --> 00:39:43,880
They're gonna have caps based next summer, They'll have multiple

789
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,599
draft picks they could trade next summer, and that's when

790
00:39:46,599 --> 00:39:49,719
they will kind of reevaluate what's gonna happen with Lebron

791
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,760
He's coming off the books as well, reeves his free agency.

792
00:39:53,679 --> 00:39:55,920
Or are they good enough? Do you think are they

793
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,719
better enough than we expected to? Kind of view making

794
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,360
mid season upgrades as a necessity because I think you

795
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,519
could another backup big would be nice. We've mentioned two

796
00:40:05,559 --> 00:40:07,960
way wings, like a combo wing or somebody like Naji

797
00:40:08,039 --> 00:40:10,440
Marshall that we were texting he would be fun for

798
00:40:10,519 --> 00:40:11,239
this team.

799
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,119
Speaker 2: I think part of the reason we weren't all in

800
00:40:16,199 --> 00:40:18,559
on the Lakers is because of the way they behaved

801
00:40:18,559 --> 00:40:20,800
this past offseason and how it suggested that like this

802
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,159
wasn't a year that they're really going for it, And

803
00:40:23,199 --> 00:40:26,280
now the way that they've played and the reason we're

804
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:27,960
talking about them is because it kind of seems like

805
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,679
they might be a move away I from really going

806
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,880
for it, So in some senses, it doesn't like they're

807
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,119
they might be surprised by how they've played so far.

808
00:40:38,079 --> 00:40:42,039
I think it would be a little bit. Man, you

809
00:40:42,119 --> 00:40:44,320
can't call it short sighted to go for it this year,

810
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,440
right if you think you're close and they sustain like

811
00:40:46,519 --> 00:40:48,840
roughly this level of play on offense because you have

812
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:54,480
Lebron he's one hundred. Like yeah, But I think if

813
00:40:54,519 --> 00:40:58,239
you're viewing it as Austin Reeves and Luca are the future.

814
00:40:58,039 --> 00:40:59,639
Speaker 1: Is it is?

815
00:40:59,679 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 2: It?

816
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,320
Speaker 1: Doesn't it become short sided at that point? And then

817
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,280
how does how do you reconcile the Oklahoma City of

818
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,880
it all? It's not well, I know teams don't approach us,

819
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,639
well we just ride a hold off until Oklahoma City

820
00:41:11,679 --> 00:41:14,280
starts to peter out because that's probably never gonna happen

821
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,519
at this point. But all you do have to weigh

822
00:41:17,639 --> 00:41:19,719
if it costs a first round pick to make a move.

823
00:41:20,159 --> 00:41:21,920
I think you have to view it through the lens

824
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:23,360
of And we're going to talk about this in a

825
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,400
little bit, is does this help us beat okay See

826
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:28,039
and Denver?

827
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 2: What's your two? You probably have to go through both

828
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:33,480
you to come out of the West. I just think

829
00:41:33,519 --> 00:41:36,519
like maybe this is like do you just take the

830
00:41:36,599 --> 00:41:38,760
Darryl Morey of it? Like approach. It is like, if

831
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,199
we have a five percent tiitle equity, we're in, we

832
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:43,039
gotta go for it?

833
00:41:43,119 --> 00:41:43,519
Speaker 1: Well do you?

834
00:41:43,559 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 2: And like they have, I have no idea like how

835
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,719
like what probably the odds would say they do have

836
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,119
a five percent chance. I don't know what. Maybe he's

837
00:41:53,159 --> 00:41:57,039
got proprietary metrics that decide what five percent of di

838
00:41:57,159 --> 00:42:01,960
equity actually is. I mean, I guess what I would

839
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:05,639
say where I would land is. I thought prior to

840
00:42:05,679 --> 00:42:09,039
the season that it made sense for them to sort

841
00:42:09,039 --> 00:42:11,559
of do some keep the powder dry kind of behavior.

842
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,440
Now with Reeves playing like this, with Luca looking like this,

843
00:42:16,559 --> 00:42:18,920
with Lebron like making so much sense as like a

844
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,920
kind of lower usage pick your spot's third option, who

845
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:26,719
just like can only help you, I'm a lot more

846
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:30,360
open to the idea of let's move some stuff because like, yeah,

847
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,320
there's there's always gonna be like, I don't know, can

848
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,800
we beat Okacy? Like fear of acknowledgment of how dominant

849
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,039
Okase looks cannot be the reason you don't go make

850
00:42:39,079 --> 00:42:40,960
a go for it trade because like what if Shaye

851
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,920
gets hurt? What if Jada's wrist is never right? Like,

852
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,800
you can't I don't think you can let that be

853
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:48,800
the reason you don't make a move. If you don't

854
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,199
make win now move as the Lakers now, it's because

855
00:42:52,159 --> 00:42:55,719
you've got bigger plans for the next seven years or whatever,

856
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:57,159
and it's just like and you have a little chance

857
00:42:57,199 --> 00:42:58,000
at a title.

858
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: Based on the timing of them announce say, I know

859
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,280
ownership is changing, but like you get rid of Joey

860
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,480
and Jesse Buss and then you got rid of most

861
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,079
of the scouting department too. Apparently I kind of wonder

862
00:43:08,119 --> 00:43:10,920
if that's the route they're taking, maybe that doesn't impact

863
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:12,800
their approach to the trade headline. So to wrap it

864
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,480
up here, the Lakers level of good, I want to

865
00:43:16,519 --> 00:43:20,440
frame it in, well, what player away are they? Is it?

866
00:43:20,559 --> 00:43:23,239
So let's say here's a really this wow. I don't

867
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,079
know if they could get him. I think they probably could.

868
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,400
Herb Jones, does that was that the name of you

869
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:29,840
were thinking?

870
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 2: Honestly? I went Trey Murphy first, and I was like, no,

871
00:43:32,519 --> 00:43:36,280
he's not enough defender at all, Like Andrew Wiggins, What

872
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,760
are they and Andrew Wiggins like just just to pick

873
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,880
the like, yeah, can definitely guard and help you on

874
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:42,360
both ends.

875
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 1: Not a star.

876
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,039
Speaker 2: Herb Jones would like it if I trusted his shot a.

877
00:43:47,039 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 1: Little bit more of his team is I mean when

878
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,639
you look at Marcus Smart or even j Colaradiaz sub

879
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,679
thirty five percent gave Benson, of course.

880
00:43:53,559 --> 00:43:56,039
Speaker 2: Well are they a healthy Dorian Phinney Smith away? Does

881
00:43:56,039 --> 00:43:57,000
that do anything for you?

882
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 1: That would be a set?

883
00:43:58,400 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 2: Well?

884
00:43:58,519 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: When is Doriy Phinney Smith going to be helped?

885
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:03,599
Speaker 2: I think I don't know there was a time when

886
00:44:03,679 --> 00:44:06,239
Dorian Finney Smith, Like however many year, three, four years

887
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,320
ago would have been like, yep, that's that's the guy.

888
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,599
That's what you're talking about, right.

889
00:44:11,519 --> 00:44:15,039
Speaker 1: Wiggins would be interesting, Herb would be interesting. Naji Marshall's

890
00:44:15,079 --> 00:44:16,559
not a good enough shooter, but I think he would

891
00:44:16,559 --> 00:44:19,400
help them a bunch. Although this team is what he's

892
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,800
doing downhill. I mean they're shooting fifty nine percent on drives.

893
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 2: Just okay, PJ. Washington, I mean he's not available, but

894
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,119
like a player like that, and then I think we're

895
00:44:28,119 --> 00:44:31,679
talking Yeah, he also can't be trie Herb Jones could

896
00:44:31,679 --> 00:44:33,880
be traded. No, we're just talking level of player like that.

897
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,559
Like yet, he's a good starter, He's a two way player,

898
00:44:36,639 --> 00:44:39,599
can guard a loss positions, will can do enough offensively

899
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,400
to not be like a you have to account for him.

900
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:44,800
Speaker 1: I think where I would land on it is that

901
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,000
if you could and Herb Jones could be traded in

902
00:44:47,039 --> 00:44:49,280
mid January, it wasn't sure if you could get a

903
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,280
Herb Jones because these are guys that are gonna cost

904
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,880
you a first round pick. I'm probably doing it, and

905
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,280
maybe that's damning with faint praise. But if you can

906
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,039
get a Wiggins, so I don't think who would you

907
00:45:00,119 --> 00:45:02,360
either have? Is this team Herb Jones or Andrew Wiggins.

908
00:45:02,519 --> 00:45:04,760
Speaker 2: I mean, Wiggins makes a lot, but I think he's

909
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:07,480
expiring so or maybe has a player option.

910
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,679
Speaker 1: Honestly, if you could give the Van doh contract to

911
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,880
Miami with a first round pick and then step ladder

912
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:15,880
your way there with other salaries, I might.

913
00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:19,039
Speaker 2: I might prefer the Wiggins route. Yeah, I mean NBA

914
00:45:19,119 --> 00:45:20,800
champion Andrew Wiggins. Let's not forget that.

915
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: You're up next. What are we talking about now?

916
00:45:23,079 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 2: Let's talk about Andrew Wiggins. Is this is gonna be

917
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,239
a Wiggans centric podcast. Let's talk about his current team,

918
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:31,719
the Miami Heat. The question it's kind of a set

919
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:36,320
of questions here, but the main one is like, what

920
00:45:36,519 --> 00:45:39,599
is the way that they're playing right now that the

921
00:45:39,639 --> 00:45:42,920
way that they've started the season, what's that mean for BAM,

922
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:44,679
for Tyler Hero and really just kind of like the

923
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:50,039
team and how how it looks going forward. The way

924
00:45:50,039 --> 00:45:52,000
that they have played is interesting and has been the

925
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,840
topic of a great deal of discussion. Just to put

926
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:58,880
like a just a quick synopsis together, they're nine to

927
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,480
six thirteenth on offense, seventh on defense. They're on pace

928
00:46:01,519 --> 00:46:03,599
for like fifty two wins. They're five and two over

929
00:46:03,599 --> 00:46:06,559
the last couple weeks. They're doing this by playing a

930
00:46:06,639 --> 00:46:11,480
very unusual style that is extremely fast, does not involve

931
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,239
a lot of ball screens. Some numbers there. Their fourth

932
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,800
in transition frequency, first in pace one hundred and six

933
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,719
point three positions per forty eight. They're number two in

934
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,880
total time to shot just around ten seconds, which is

935
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,599
like two full seconds faster than last year. So they're

936
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,159
sprinting the ball up their number two and fast breakpoints.

937
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:32,239
They're second in drives. They're tied for the fewest average

938
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,920
seconds per touch, so the ball hops they have the

939
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,119
highest average speed. Just how fast are guys moving? And

940
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,199
the crazy thing is if you sort that by offense.

941
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,679
Their speed on average of five point two three miles

942
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:51,920
per hour on offense is way way ahead of second place,

943
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,440
which is at four point nine to six. And the

944
00:46:54,559 --> 00:46:58,079
difference between that is kind of like, I can't remember

945
00:46:58,079 --> 00:47:00,199
the exact numbers, but when you've said, you know, the

946
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,119
difference between first and second is like the difference between

947
00:47:02,119 --> 00:47:06,000
second and twentieth's that's the level of distinction we're talking

948
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:10,840
about here. I would note, though, that the Houston Rockets

949
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,599
and the Denver Nuggets are the slowest and third slowest

950
00:47:14,079 --> 00:47:16,400
teams in the league. By that metric, those are the

951
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,719
top two offenses in the NBA. Going fast does not

952
00:47:20,159 --> 00:47:23,840
necessarily mean you have a good offense. So what I

953
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:25,519
would pause it before we get to the Bam and

954
00:47:25,599 --> 00:47:28,920
hero of it is that the way the Heat playing

955
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,039
right now, to me, is a great way to rack

956
00:47:32,119 --> 00:47:34,880
up regular season wins and set a high floor for yourself.

957
00:47:35,559 --> 00:47:39,519
I don't know that it is like an optimal system

958
00:47:39,639 --> 00:47:42,320
with any personnel, because part of the reason they're playing

959
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,199
this way is like here, being out means you don't

960
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,960
have someone that you want to spam pick and rolls with,

961
00:47:47,119 --> 00:47:48,920
or slow the offense down and try to hunt like

962
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:52,199
conventional shots. With the fact that there are other teams

963
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:55,559
playing very very successfully, playing much better offense than the

964
00:47:55,559 --> 00:47:59,679
Heat in quote unquote more conventional ways, suggests to me

965
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:02,000
that this isn't like a hack, like the Heat have

966
00:48:02,079 --> 00:48:05,360
not solved NBA offense. I think this works with what

967
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,559
they have. I don't know that it's necessarily the best

968
00:48:08,639 --> 00:48:11,920
way to play offense for every team. I think teams

969
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,079
will take elements of this just because it's exciting and

970
00:48:15,199 --> 00:48:17,599
might again set a high floor. But so what's that

971
00:48:17,679 --> 00:48:21,599
mean for Hero and Bam? To me, the Bam fit

972
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,320
is just like a no brainer because he's shooting more

973
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:25,599
threes than he ever has.

974
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 1: Almost six a game.

975
00:48:27,039 --> 00:48:30,159
Speaker 2: And then see, right, he's not someone Mike Sheer had

976
00:48:30,199 --> 00:48:34,280
a phenomenal basketball's poetry, just a great like right up,

977
00:48:34,559 --> 00:48:36,320
And it's a couple of weeks old now, but all

978
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,320
of it still applies, Like what are the Heat doing?

979
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,599
What's different? A lot of the stats I looked up

980
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,320
stemmed from what he was showing in film and stuff

981
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:48,000
like that. The Bam fit to me is just kind

982
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,400
of like, Yeah, he's a smart passer, he's athletic, he

983
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,400
moves well, you should play fast with that guy, and

984
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:54,719
now that he shoots threes, everything kind of works like

985
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:57,239
you get bam and isolation against the center, which is

986
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:03,079
all just the Heat's offense doesn't necessarily like get categorized

987
00:49:03,119 --> 00:49:05,239
as ISO heavy, but like that is kind of what

988
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,079
it is, because the goal is you drive your guy

989
00:49:07,119 --> 00:49:09,239
to the basket and either try to beat him one

990
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:12,320
on one or start the spin cycle. He's fine there.

991
00:49:12,559 --> 00:49:16,199
Hero is more interesting just because he's someone that has

992
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:20,280
a higher touch time, He dribbles the ball more. He's

993
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,280
a very good pick and role player. He can shoot

994
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:24,760
on you know, coming off screens really effectively. Like he's

995
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,480
a good offensive player in what you might term a

996
00:49:27,519 --> 00:49:31,880
more conventional approach. That said, though, if you just look

997
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,960
at last year's numbers, Davion Mitchell and Terry Rozier had

998
00:49:36,079 --> 00:49:39,840
longer average TOUCHI dribbled more. So, like Hero's not coming

999
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:42,440
in as like we're not talking about someone like on

1000
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,679
a Jalen Brunson level of like you're gonna have to

1001
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:47,159
reduce your your time on the ball and your touches

1002
00:49:47,199 --> 00:49:50,079
and your primacy in the offense. Like Hero wasn't and

1003
00:49:50,199 --> 00:49:53,639
isn't that type of guy. So I'm pretty confident that

1004
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:57,280
he can fit into what the Heat doing. I think

1005
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,880
my question to you is, once you got Hero and

1006
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:05,119
Bam back in the fold, would you imagine the Heat

1007
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,440
utilizing more of Like, Okay, yeah, we have the style,

1008
00:50:09,519 --> 00:50:11,280
we have our principles. We want to get it over

1009
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,159
half court, we want to drive. We may known scept

1010
00:50:13,199 --> 00:50:16,400
ball screens. But do you think that you tailor stuff

1011
00:50:17,039 --> 00:50:20,159
to Hero and to Bam or do you say, guys,

1012
00:50:20,599 --> 00:50:23,480
this is what we're doing, fit in, like just play

1013
00:50:23,519 --> 00:50:26,159
the style? Like which way would you? Because I would

1014
00:50:26,199 --> 00:50:29,239
note too before you answer, like the offense is way

1015
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:31,440
better than it's been. They've been twenty first or worse

1016
00:50:31,519 --> 00:50:34,519
and worse in scoring efficiency each of the last three years.

1017
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:38,880
It's thirteenth. Now there's still a defense first team, there's

1018
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:41,039
seventh on defense. Like, the Heat are better, they're not

1019
00:50:41,079 --> 00:50:43,840
a great offense, So like, which way does that cut?

1020
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:46,800
As you're trying to decide how to use Hero Bam

1021
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:49,519
and like, think about what style you want to play

1022
00:50:49,559 --> 00:50:50,360
with those guys.

1023
00:50:50,639 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: I really do not worry about their Hero fitting into

1024
00:50:54,039 --> 00:50:57,280
the offense. As you already said, and we've kind of

1025
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,280
seen even last year, there's going to be value in

1026
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,800
their seventh and half court offense right now, I think

1027
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:06,079
they're just gonna be value in having your best passer

1028
00:51:06,599 --> 00:51:08,320
on the floor when you are going to be in

1029
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,760
situations where maybe the half court like you're gonna have

1030
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,159
to those possessions are going to last longer. I also

1031
00:51:14,199 --> 00:51:16,840
think that we have seen in the past that Hero

1032
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,679
doesn't have to slow down your attack. In part you

1033
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:22,079
mentioned the stuff they can run for him away from

1034
00:51:22,079 --> 00:51:24,519
the ball, but just in terms of, oh, if this

1035
00:51:24,599 --> 00:51:28,719
team needs to get out in transition, like Hero doesn't

1036
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:32,519
necessarily isn't that He's not Jimmy Butler. He's not I

1037
00:51:32,519 --> 00:51:36,079
think going to inherently look to slow it down, And

1038
00:51:36,159 --> 00:51:39,599
so I think that benefits them. And even last year,

1039
00:51:39,679 --> 00:51:43,719
like they were in transition basically like the same amount

1040
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:45,280
of time when he was on or off the court,

1041
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:47,679
and so I would think that he can fit into

1042
00:51:48,679 --> 00:51:50,719
regardless of whether he's being used on the ball or

1043
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:52,719
off the ball. You mentioned it at the end was

1044
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:54,800
gonna end up being I think the bigger issue for

1045
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:56,840
this team, and I might just trust them to figure

1046
00:51:56,840 --> 00:51:58,960
it out because it's Eric Boelscher and it's the heat.

1047
00:51:59,159 --> 00:52:02,480
What do they look like defensively when presumably Norman Powell

1048
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:06,079
and Tyler Herro are both playing minutes together. Because I

1049
00:52:06,119 --> 00:52:09,159
do think the theory and maybe it's not anymore because

1050
00:52:09,199 --> 00:52:12,280
of how good the offense has been, how good Norman

1051
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,760
Powell has been when he's been healthy without Hero, I

1052
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,719
thought the theory was, well, they really want both of

1053
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:20,480
these guys to be on the court. They have to

1054
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,960
be at some point they are. They're two of your

1055
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:25,960
three best offensive players, so you can stagger them and

1056
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,480
I think that would actually help you. One maybe preserves

1057
00:52:29,519 --> 00:52:31,159
a lot of what you're doing, but it also kind

1058
00:52:31,199 --> 00:52:33,519
of allows you to say, well, Hero comes in and

1059
00:52:33,599 --> 00:52:36,440
during his staggered minutes is maybe that's when we change

1060
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:39,480
our fastball and we saw it with I don't know

1061
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,480
if that would Memphis offense have worked out in the

1062
00:52:42,519 --> 00:52:45,679
playoffs last year had they stuck to it, like, we

1063
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:47,920
don't know, so there need to be proof of concept.

1064
00:52:48,199 --> 00:52:50,920
I think I find myself sort of wondering. I think

1065
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:54,000
they could get better offensively when Tyler Hero was healthy,

1066
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:57,559
But will it come at a defensive trade off when

1067
00:52:57,559 --> 00:53:00,320
you're looking at some of their core lineups, because now

1068
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:02,159
you're gonna start getting into Okay, well, if it's Norman

1069
00:53:02,199 --> 00:53:04,440
Powell and Tyler Hero. How do you want to game

1070
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,920
the front court? Do you want Nikola Jovic on the

1071
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:09,800
floor for any of those minutes and you're providing the

1072
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:10,519
extra stretch?

1073
00:53:10,559 --> 00:53:12,960
Speaker 2: Is it we need to go duel big with kohlil

1074
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:14,840
Ware and bam Adebayo for a lot of those minutes?

1075
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:17,639
Speaker 1: Are we downsizing a little bit more? There's a debyon

1076
00:53:17,679 --> 00:53:21,320
Mitchell and Andrew Wiggins on the court. It's I think

1077
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:23,280
it's more of a good problem to have than an

1078
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,960
actual problem, but it is something with Because Norman Powell

1079
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,599
is headed for free agency, Tyler Hero has one year

1080
00:53:29,679 --> 00:53:32,159
left on his deal was extension only. Will this past fall?

1081
00:53:32,639 --> 00:53:35,800
You get into wondering in theory, if you look at

1082
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,519
Miami on paper, their biggest need is still the same,

1083
00:53:39,159 --> 00:53:42,559
it's the lead playmaker for the entire team. Maybe the

1084
00:53:42,599 --> 00:53:47,519
bigger question is does Tyler Hero provide enough net offensive

1085
00:53:47,599 --> 00:53:50,159
value as a score and a playmaker now to you

1086
00:53:50,599 --> 00:53:52,480
for you to view the Heat as a team that

1087
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:56,320
maybe they're not gonna double and triple down around this core.

1088
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,679
But it's okay, we're not looking at we need to

1089
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:03,360
move like what is more likely that Miami is good enough?

1090
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,360
I guess to make additions this year and moving forward,

1091
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,679
or that they're gonna need to have maybe not a

1092
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:12,000
hard reset, but one of Hero or Bam. It's gonna

1093
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:13,960
need to be changed up from them, and more likely

1094
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,599
it would be Hero because moving Bam would be the

1095
00:54:16,679 --> 00:54:18,440
hard reset, right I think.

1096
00:54:18,599 --> 00:54:22,039
Speaker 2: I think my gut is that just let's get real

1097
00:54:22,079 --> 00:54:24,480
stupid about it, they still need a guy who's better

1098
00:54:24,519 --> 00:54:26,199
than their best guy if they're going to try to

1099
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,280
win a championship. I think, like I think Bam Bam,

1100
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:33,039
we love Bam like that's that's that's a given. He's

1101
00:54:33,159 --> 00:54:35,360
not the best player on team that wins a title

1102
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:37,039
or goes to the finals. I don't think like you

1103
00:54:37,039 --> 00:54:39,840
need your Jimmy but your prime Jimmy Butler's or whoever

1104
00:54:40,039 --> 00:54:41,599
to sort of put him in the right spot. And

1105
00:54:41,679 --> 00:54:44,320
Hero certainly is not to me the type of player

1106
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,360
that you can build an offense around. So yeah, I

1107
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:51,960
guess then if this holds up and the Heat have

1108
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:54,679
even more success with those two guys, you probably look

1109
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:57,159
to add as opposed to a reset. The one thing

1110
00:54:57,199 --> 00:55:01,119
I just just like kind of thought extra size like

1111
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:05,039
with respect to integrating Bam and Hero. BAM's back heroes,

1112
00:55:05,119 --> 00:55:09,440
not if you're trying to decide what style you want

1113
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:11,039
to play as the heater, like how much you want

1114
00:55:11,079 --> 00:55:12,960
to keep doing these types of things that you've been

1115
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:17,079
doing versus more conventional stuff. I think, don't you think

1116
00:55:17,079 --> 00:55:19,360
that maybe one of the issues you have to consider

1117
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:23,119
is like, well, this style has gotten a version of

1118
00:55:23,199 --> 00:55:26,400
Heimehawk as junior that did not exist before, and he's

1119
00:55:26,519 --> 00:55:28,199
if he's not the most improved player, he's on the

1120
00:55:28,199 --> 00:55:31,239
short list of candidates right now. I think you could

1121
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,000
make similar cases for like Simone Fontecio is finally like

1122
00:55:34,039 --> 00:55:37,559
the guy that everybody hoped he would be in this system.

1123
00:55:38,079 --> 00:55:41,559
He's benefiting from the drivekick drive kick, Like oh man,

1124
00:55:41,639 --> 00:55:45,320
the defense just like got itself tied in knots open shot.

1125
00:55:45,519 --> 00:55:48,000
Maybe Jovic is that way, Maybe Davion Mitchell's that way,

1126
00:55:48,199 --> 00:55:52,239
Like those guys HeLa Larson seems to all even where

1127
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:54,760
is like, well, nobody boxed him out because we're all

1128
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:59,360
scrambling everywhere, and he has a seventeen rebound game. So

1129
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:03,880
those guys I think are more dependent for their success

1130
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:06,400
on the way the Heat are playing right now, and

1131
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:09,719
I think maybe you have to factor that in when

1132
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:12,440
you're deciding like, all right, well, but Hero and BAM

1133
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:14,760
maybe play better in this conventional way, Like, yeah, they

1134
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:16,880
might be a little better there. I think the wiser

1135
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:20,119
move is to trust your absolute most talented players to

1136
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:24,199
fit into this system that because if you tweak this

1137
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:25,920
and go back to more conventional stuff, I think you

1138
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:28,440
might lose a lot from these other role guys that

1139
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:31,239
have excelled with how you're playing now. So you just

1140
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:33,480
have to trust the talent top end talent to figure

1141
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:35,559
it out because you don't want to mess up what's

1142
00:56:35,599 --> 00:56:37,320
worked so well for a lot of the other guys

1143
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:40,800
that maybe aren't this good in any other style of play.

1144
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 1: But at the same time, how much like where's it

1145
00:56:46,039 --> 00:56:48,320
going to get you? If you're viewing, let's just use

1146
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,599
heroes we've seen, like we have proof of concept with

1147
00:56:50,679 --> 00:56:54,039
BAM for this season. If you're worried about, well, what

1148
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:57,039
is Hero going to do to Heim Bayakas Junior, who

1149
00:56:57,119 --> 00:56:59,800
is needs to have the ball in his hands, like

1150
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:02,840
to really be irreactful on the offensive end. Yes, now,

1151
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:04,840
I think Hero is good enough to where you can

1152
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,440
still allow that. But if you have if you need

1153
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:11,000
your your best player, one of your two best players

1154
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:13,719
to unless you actually think that Highway Hawk is junior,

1155
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:15,760
is more valuable than Tyler Hero, and that maybe that

1156
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:19,159
would be a different discussion, but like Simony Vontekio certainly is.

1157
00:57:19,159 --> 00:57:21,320
And it's yeah, you don't want to end up shifting

1158
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:24,559
the ground beneath your star players too much just to

1159
00:57:24,639 --> 00:57:27,679
account for Hi may Hawk as junior. That's not where

1160
00:57:27,679 --> 00:57:29,639
I'm at. And I know, I oh, go ahead, and.

1161
00:57:29,719 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 2: No, I think I know, I don't I agree. I

1162
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,159
would say, like I would use Powell as a comp

1163
00:57:34,239 --> 00:57:37,800
like he's looking great, he's fine in playing this way,

1164
00:57:38,119 --> 00:57:40,239
and you would certainly argue that, like at least last year,

1165
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:42,679
Powell and Hero were pretty close to equals, right, like

1166
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:45,239
in terms of like overall production, and like who's the

1167
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:47,920
better player. I think Hero, just given his youth and

1168
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:50,599
ball handling and stuff, might be better. But like it's

1169
00:57:50,639 --> 00:57:53,079
more of like I trust the top end talents like

1170
00:57:53,119 --> 00:57:55,559
Hero to figure out how to play just as well

1171
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:58,639
in this style as any other, more than I trust

1172
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,039
these four or five other guys to be able to

1173
00:58:01,079 --> 00:58:03,480
be this good if we change how we play. You know,

1174
00:58:03,519 --> 00:58:05,599
it's not like it's not I get what you're saying.

1175
00:58:05,599 --> 00:58:07,719
It's like Yeah, you can't ask the best guy to

1176
00:58:07,719 --> 00:58:09,639
play a certain way because you're worried about your fifth

1177
00:58:09,639 --> 00:58:12,599
best guy. But I think like it's more just you

1178
00:58:12,639 --> 00:58:16,039
can trust the higher end talents to figure it out.

1179
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:18,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I look, I think they will. I mean

1180
00:58:18,719 --> 00:58:21,800
even like Hero is the one that you we guam onto,

1181
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:25,000
because I think he played more of that like Norman Powell.

1182
00:58:25,039 --> 00:58:27,800
Even last year during the Starless Minutes. It wasn't just

1183
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:31,440
him dominating everything Hero at points needed to for Miami.

1184
00:58:31,599 --> 00:58:32,880
I think the way that he changed.

1185
00:58:32,599 --> 00:58:34,599
Speaker 2: A shot giant for a lot of last year. He

1186
00:58:34,719 --> 00:58:37,599
was in the sixty seventh percentile of catch and shoot

1187
00:58:37,639 --> 00:58:40,159
three pointers per seventy five possessions, and that's on a

1188
00:58:40,199 --> 00:58:43,000
team that didn't really have anyone to get him.

1189
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 1: The ball for a majority of the season. So now

1190
00:58:45,039 --> 00:58:47,159
you look at the way the heater playing, I'm I'm

1191
00:58:47,159 --> 00:58:50,119
pretty optimistic. I don't know what their ceiling is though,

1192
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:53,239
with the exact core as it currently stands, but the

1193
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,920
way the East is shaking out, I don't think the

1194
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,920
Knicks or the Calves have really impressed anybody, and so

1195
00:58:59,559 --> 00:59:03,480
it feels like there's decidedly at least three spots, depending

1196
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:05,519
on how you feel about the Pistons and the Raptors.

1197
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:07,840
It feels like there's three spots in the top four

1198
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:09,639
in the East that might just be up for grabs.

1199
00:59:09,639 --> 00:59:11,559
People probably had it penciled in as two, but with

1200
00:59:11,599 --> 00:59:14,400
the Magic playing the way they are, the Heat could

1201
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:16,480
be one of them. And I honestly think that Hero

1202
00:59:16,599 --> 00:59:19,480
is gonna make them only better, maybe more variable, and

1203
00:59:19,519 --> 00:59:22,480
maybe there'll be a learning curve there. But this, I

1204
00:59:22,519 --> 00:59:23,719
guess this is an optimism pod.

1205
00:59:23,719 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 2: It's up for the Hawks is that we're higher on

1206
00:59:25,519 --> 00:59:27,079
the Lakers and we're higher on the Heat and when

1207
00:59:27,119 --> 00:59:30,840
we started, yeah, I'm going to take us to Speaking

1208
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:32,760
of top four in the East, you know who's number

1209
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:37,119
two in the East? Grant is it you? Are they

1210
00:59:37,159 --> 00:59:40,480
yours or are they mine? Though they can be yours.

1211
00:59:40,519 --> 00:59:43,960
I believe it is your Toronto Raptors. It is, and

1212
00:59:44,119 --> 00:59:45,800
the Toronto Raptors are killing it.

1213
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:48,880
Speaker 1: I'm happy that I smashed there over when we were

1214
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:52,679
going through that exercise. They are among the teams who

1215
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:56,519
rank in the top ten of offense and defense. Their offense,

1216
00:59:57,159 --> 00:59:59,840
they're not taking a ton of threes, they're shooting them efficiently.

1217
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:04,519
They are first in transition frequency only the Wizards, Grant

1218
01:00:04,599 --> 01:00:08,440
play faster after a mishot by the opponent. So just

1219
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:11,079
looking at the average offensive possession time, only the Wizards

1220
01:00:11,079 --> 01:00:13,920
are faster after the opponent misses a shot. Now you're

1221
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,679
kind of looking The big question with the Raptors is, well,

1222
01:00:16,719 --> 01:00:18,639
how are they going to operate when they're in the

1223
01:00:18,639 --> 01:00:20,800
half court when things have to slow down a little bit.

1224
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:23,639
Even if they're trying to go through their actions faster, Grant,

1225
01:00:23,639 --> 01:00:26,079
they're going to be pretty good. They're third in half

1226
01:00:26,079 --> 01:00:30,199
court offense efficiency this year. Some one of the most

1227
01:00:30,239 --> 01:00:32,920
interesting things I think is, Okay, what does Brandon Ingram's

1228
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:36,760
role look like on this team? It works, It's a

1229
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:41,039
more streamlined version of what he needs to do. It's

1230
01:00:41,639 --> 01:00:43,840
focus on scoring for the most part. He doesn't have

1231
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:46,000
to do as many much playmaking. But he's also not

1232
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:49,119
it's not scoring where okay, you go through your typical

1233
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:53,719
machinations and dominate the ball for X amount of seconds

1234
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:56,480
his last healthy season, so not in twenty twenty three,

1235
01:00:56,679 --> 01:00:59,960
twenty In twenty twenty three twenty twenty four, excuse me,

1236
01:01:00,519 --> 01:01:03,480
he averaged four point zero one seconds per touch and

1237
01:01:03,599 --> 01:01:07,360
three point one seven dribbles per touch. Forty one point

1238
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:11,280
five percent of his twos came off asis this year,

1239
01:01:11,719 --> 01:01:14,960
three point one seven seconds per touch, two point two

1240
01:01:15,079 --> 01:01:18,159
dribbles per touch, and about forty seven percent of his

1241
01:01:18,239 --> 01:01:20,880
twos are coming off a sis. That's a career high.

1242
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:23,000
And I know that still doesn't seem like a high number,

1243
01:01:23,239 --> 01:01:26,519
but I was watching it struck me the most. I

1244
01:01:26,519 --> 01:01:29,719
think in their game against the Rockets, I wanted to know,

1245
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:33,440
has he ever just like came off of more screens

1246
01:01:33,599 --> 01:01:35,880
away from the ball and then gone right into a shot.

1247
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:39,159
The answer is no. Uh. This is the highest like

1248
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:43,079
off ball screen usage that he has ever gotten. That's

1249
01:01:43,119 --> 01:01:46,400
a big deal. He's also it's his lowest true usage

1250
01:01:46,519 --> 01:01:50,079
season since twenty eighteen twenty nineteen, and true usage just

1251
01:01:50,119 --> 01:01:53,400
takes into account some additional playmaking metrics in addition to

1252
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:57,119
possessions that ends in turnovers and shots. They have really

1253
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:01,599
trimmed down his role. There's some awkwardness there. He's shooting

1254
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,840
under thirty percent on catch and shoot threes, which over

1255
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:07,519
the past few games has basically been removed from his diet.

1256
01:02:07,719 --> 01:02:09,559
I think you could look at that and say, well,

1257
01:02:09,559 --> 01:02:13,000
he'll get better there. I think the fit has been

1258
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:16,880
far more if not seamless more intuitive than you would

1259
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:20,039
have expected killing it from mid range, as are the

1260
01:02:20,159 --> 01:02:24,159
raptors in general. The other three players that I think

1261
01:02:24,159 --> 01:02:25,559
you need to shout out a ton of players, but

1262
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:29,000
more of the quick hitters. Emmanuel Quickly another guy who

1263
01:02:29,039 --> 01:02:31,920
just seems like he's operating within the ecosystem better, not

1264
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:34,880
really forcing things. They're not running asking him to run

1265
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:37,280
a ton of the offense run basic stuff. But he's

1266
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:39,880
also not turning it over at all, and so it's okay.

1267
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:43,039
These are lower usage primary ball handlers when you look

1268
01:02:43,039 --> 01:02:45,079
at him or RJ. Barrett, but if they're not going

1269
01:02:45,119 --> 01:02:47,760
to turn the ball over a ton, that's great. RJ.

1270
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:51,239
Barrett he's another guy who it's his off ball usage

1271
01:02:51,519 --> 01:02:54,400
is through the roof, even relative to what he was

1272
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:57,039
doing in Toronto before this. This is the lowest dribbles

1273
01:02:57,079 --> 01:03:00,159
per touch of his career. He's has the highest drive

1274
01:03:00,199 --> 01:03:03,440
pass out rate of his career, and fifty six point

1275
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:06,400
three percent of his twos are coming off asis. That's

1276
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,119
the second highest of his career, and this has been

1277
01:03:09,119 --> 01:03:12,039
one of the most efficient versions of himself. He's only

1278
01:03:12,079 --> 01:03:16,360
average more points per shot attempt once The final main

1279
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:18,920
player I mean Yaka Perl here too. The space he

1280
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:21,199
creates with his screens, the decision making he can make

1281
01:03:21,519 --> 01:03:24,119
on rolls have been great. I would like to start

1282
01:03:24,159 --> 01:03:26,440
the Scotti. Barnes belongs on the back end of the

1283
01:03:26,519 --> 01:03:30,199
MVP ballot conversation right now. He finished tenth in my

1284
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:32,440
latest MVP ladder. I think he was one of the

1285
01:03:32,519 --> 01:03:34,800
names we mentioned when we were trying to with a

1286
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:36,800
twist it who's someone that can come out of nowhere

1287
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:40,880
and enter the MVP running. He has been excellent for

1288
01:03:41,199 --> 01:03:43,440
I want him to take fewer mid range jumpers. I

1289
01:03:43,519 --> 01:03:45,519
just I don't love it. The efficiency's not there. I'd

1290
01:03:45,519 --> 01:03:48,119
like to see less of it. He's shooting really well

1291
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:51,079
on above the break threes right now, forty four percent

1292
01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:55,559
on our threes. Really big deal. I think he is

1293
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:59,159
probably like he just seems to have the assist numbers

1294
01:03:59,199 --> 01:04:01,079
won't always show it, although he's of course up there.

1295
01:04:01,079 --> 01:04:03,840
Over five is his per game. He just has the

1296
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:07,639
most connectivity with everyone else on the team compared to

1297
01:04:07,679 --> 01:04:11,519
anyone else on the team. Smart passing, he's finding players

1298
01:04:11,519 --> 01:04:14,239
that are cutting in from the wings. Really great chemistry

1299
01:04:14,239 --> 01:04:17,800
with Yaka Perto when he's in the short role defensively,

1300
01:04:18,039 --> 01:04:20,719
he is just Scotty Barnes at this point as a behemoth.

1301
01:04:21,119 --> 01:04:23,679
The rim protection numbers are not great, but he's also

1302
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:27,320
contesting a career high of opponent shots at the basket.

1303
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:30,639
Good luck, just like making a pass with him on

1304
01:04:30,679 --> 01:04:32,880
the court. On the ball, try to make an entry pass,

1305
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:35,719
good luck with him there. The defensive playmaking is kind

1306
01:04:35,719 --> 01:04:39,800
of insane. He is on pace grant of anyone who

1307
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:43,480
has averaged over thirty minutes per game in a single

1308
01:04:43,519 --> 01:04:46,960
season to become the first player to get one point

1309
01:04:47,039 --> 01:04:50,480
five steals and one point five blocks per thirty six

1310
01:04:50,719 --> 01:04:53,719
per one hundred possessions. Excuse me, I messed it up.

1311
01:04:54,519 --> 01:04:56,599
The last player to get two steals per one hundred

1312
01:04:56,599 --> 01:04:59,519
possessions and two point five blocks per one hundred possessions

1313
01:04:59,719 --> 01:05:02,320
while averaging at least thirty minutes per game was Anthony

1314
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:05,519
Davis in twenty nineteen, twenty twenty. Just to put the

1315
01:05:05,559 --> 01:05:09,280
defensive play making a context, and there are two plays

1316
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:11,599
when you're looking at that have stuck out to me,

1317
01:05:11,719 --> 01:05:14,679
one of them recently, and they were both against the Calves. Ironically,

1318
01:05:15,079 --> 01:05:19,400
where Scotty Barnes's defensive value leads through for me, the

1319
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:21,480
most recent one was against the Calves, and I think

1320
01:05:21,519 --> 01:05:23,480
it was actually brought up by I want to say

1321
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:27,480
it was the dunker spot. But Scotty Barnes flies in

1322
01:05:27,519 --> 01:05:29,679
from the middle to cut off Donovan Mitchell on the

1323
01:05:29,719 --> 01:05:32,039
south wing. I know what you're talking, teleports over to

1324
01:05:32,039 --> 01:05:34,119
Evan Mobley on the left side of Mitchell, passed at

1325
01:05:34,199 --> 01:05:36,519
him to block the three pointer and then ends up

1326
01:05:36,519 --> 01:05:39,239
getting the basket in transition. That's great. That's probably a

1327
01:05:39,239 --> 01:05:41,719
play that stood out to a bunch of people earlier

1328
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:44,840
in the year though, against the Calves, he had this

1329
01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:47,639
play where it was kind of broken, kind of by design,

1330
01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:51,360
but he over closes out on Dean Wade a voice fouling,

1331
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:54,000
but ends up behind Dean Wade, so he shifts over.

1332
01:05:54,079 --> 01:05:56,360
Dean Wade puts the ball on the floors, driving Scotty

1333
01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:59,280
Barnes shifts over to Evan Mobley, who is lifting out

1334
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:02,360
of the corner at that point. Dean Wade then kicks

1335
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:05,199
it out to Evan Mobley and Scotty Barnes's body is

1336
01:06:05,239 --> 01:06:07,559
just not in a position to defend anything at this point.

1337
01:06:07,679 --> 01:06:08,800
Evan Mobley catches it.

1338
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:12,199
Speaker 2: On the go, gets all the way downhill, Scottie Barnes

1339
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:14,679
is there and by the time Evan Mobley's deep into

1340
01:06:14,719 --> 01:06:16,840
his drive, Scotty Barnes I don't even thinks caught the

1341
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:19,360
free throw line. Yet by the time he ends his drive,

1342
01:06:19,559 --> 01:06:22,360
Scotty Barnes is right there with two or three Raptors.

1343
01:06:22,559 --> 01:06:25,280
Evan Mobley makes the dump off pass to Dean Wade

1344
01:06:25,320 --> 01:06:28,000
right around the basket. Scotty Barnes rotations and just blocks

1345
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:29,960
the shot. The possession that looks like it was going

1346
01:06:30,039 --> 01:06:32,519
to be a blown defensive possession for the Raptors is

1347
01:06:32,559 --> 01:06:35,480
blown up by Scottie Barnes. He is going to make

1348
01:06:35,599 --> 01:06:37,440
if he stays healthy and All defense team this year.

1349
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:39,719
Shout out to Samson Folk came on the podcast for

1350
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:42,280
the Lookhead asked me if I thought he would make it.

1351
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:44,360
Speaker 1: I said so outside that Remban possibility.

1352
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'd predict it, should have predicted it.

1353
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:49,719
He's been fantastic. This team is fantastic, and the final

1354
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:51,760
note I have on them is they're also just deep.

1355
01:06:52,119 --> 01:06:55,239
They have the best bench point differential per one hundred

1356
01:06:55,239 --> 01:06:57,960
posessions in the league right now, mad Who's been a

1357
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:01,519
breath of fresh air. Shout out to Samson Again, the

1358
01:07:01,599 --> 01:07:04,320
Mamu drives have been great. There's not a ton of them,

1359
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:06,559
he's shooting over sixty percent on them. But the way

1360
01:07:06,599 --> 01:07:08,320
he can play, it's not just the spacing for him.

1361
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:09,280
He opens up the floor.

1362
01:07:09,599 --> 01:07:11,679
Speaker 1: Grady Dick. I still don't know what to make of

1363
01:07:11,719 --> 01:07:15,920
Grady Dick, but the Raptor's rim frequency shoots through the

1364
01:07:16,079 --> 01:07:19,199
roof with him on the court because defenses defend him

1365
01:07:19,239 --> 01:07:21,840
like he's this five alarm fire, even though the efficiency

1366
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:25,400
says that he's not a five alarm fire. So this team,

1367
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:29,960
if we're talking about Miami Atlanta, which of these teams

1368
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:32,079
that are kind of they're viewed as dark horses or

1369
01:07:32,119 --> 01:07:34,079
they're playing like dark horses with a bigger threat non

1370
01:07:34,119 --> 01:07:36,639
pissed his division because they're lording over everyone right now.

1371
01:07:37,119 --> 01:07:40,960
I am most immediately high on the Toronto Raptors as

1372
01:07:41,199 --> 01:07:44,440
just after get through the Pistons, the Calves, the Knicks.

1373
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:47,639
I think they're the team I look at right now

1374
01:07:47,639 --> 01:07:50,320
in the East and say, yeah, they're they're going to

1375
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:52,119
be the fourth or the third best team in the East.

1376
01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:56,159
Speaker 2: Looking back at what we came into the season, kind of,

1377
01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:58,480
I don't know if you had to do the thumbnail

1378
01:07:58,519 --> 01:08:01,559
sketch of like our the raptors look ahead or maybe

1379
01:08:01,599 --> 01:08:04,159
not not the look at our thoughts. What do you

1380
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:11,119
think we, the collective basketball consuming public, we got most wrong?

1381
01:08:11,599 --> 01:08:14,599
And I'll give you three choices, kind of increasing from

1382
01:08:14,639 --> 01:08:20,720
micro to macro, the pertal extension Ingram's fit, or the

1383
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:24,640
broader like what the fuck is this roster? The construction right,

1384
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:27,359
because that was just like everybody conceded, like, yeah, there's

1385
01:08:27,359 --> 01:08:29,720
a lot of talent on this team. None of it

1386
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:33,399
makes sense together, Like which of those three things, based

1387
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:35,199
on what you've seen so far this season and just

1388
01:08:35,199 --> 01:08:37,680
how they've played, how they perform, which of those three

1389
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:43,560
things seems like the most wrong analysis? It's probably the

1390
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:47,199
brandon Ingram fit, although I think you could just say

1391
01:08:47,239 --> 01:08:50,479
the broader strokes because I think I don't know what

1392
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:53,079
to fold the brandon Ingram fit into because everyone was

1393
01:08:53,119 --> 01:08:55,439
working it was the one ball argument, well how does

1394
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:59,000
this impact Scotty? How does it impact like I mean,

1395
01:08:59,199 --> 01:09:01,319
just to credit the doubters a little bit, it's like

1396
01:09:01,359 --> 01:09:03,159
it was the one ball thing, but it was also

1397
01:09:03,279 --> 01:09:06,840
like is he gonna shoot enough threes? It was can

1398
01:09:06,880 --> 01:09:09,039
he be part of a team that wants to move

1399
01:09:09,079 --> 01:09:11,720
the ball the way that dark Oreyakovich wants his teams

1400
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:13,600
to move the ball, Like was I mean, I know

1401
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:17,279
you're simplifying, but like they're I kind of I actually

1402
01:09:17,279 --> 01:09:20,000
agree with you. Well, I don't know how to separate

1403
01:09:20,039 --> 01:09:23,039
the Ingram question from the overall roster construction, but like

1404
01:09:23,079 --> 01:09:25,159
those were real concerns, and like all the numbers you

1405
01:09:25,239 --> 01:09:28,399
laid out, Ingram has been like just different than But

1406
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:30,479
what you hit on is I think you could look

1407
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:32,600
at it and say four to threes a game thirty

1408
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:34,439
percent from No, that's not that's not enough.

1409
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:37,439
Speaker 1: And so what does this impact it at all over

1410
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:39,359
time is a question you could have. But I still

1411
01:09:39,359 --> 01:09:42,119
think it's when you look at the general principles with

1412
01:09:42,159 --> 01:09:46,800
which the Raptors play. People were overly concerned, probably including

1413
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:49,439
myself there, but I was more of a Raptor's optimist,

1414
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:53,640
like in general. But even this out of the gate

1415
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:57,000
top ten in offense not something I would have expected.

1416
01:09:57,279 --> 01:09:59,720
I will say the other thing though, that we might

1417
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:03,640
have just underrated, which and I mean this collectively, which

1418
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:05,840
is kind of funny because now we know how important

1419
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:08,239
depth is. This team does just have a lot of

1420
01:10:08,279 --> 01:10:13,199
guys and so if all the fits aren't intuitive, it's

1421
01:10:13,319 --> 01:10:15,560
like jameson Battle can come in and lock him in.

1422
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:17,560
It's like, oh, chio Bogi's kind of buried on this

1423
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:20,960
team right now. They just like calmery Boyles. What did

1424
01:10:21,039 --> 01:10:23,279
we sit here and say how many times it was

1425
01:10:23,399 --> 01:10:25,920
we love CMB. We don't like the idea of CNB

1426
01:10:26,039 --> 01:10:27,840
on the Raptors because why we hate the idea of

1427
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:30,159
someone who plays his ass off on defense. No, I

1428
01:10:30,159 --> 01:10:32,560
didn't think he's like he has some inflated three point

1429
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:34,800
shooting games, and he's been better out of the short

1430
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:37,359
role than I expected. I think the things we got

1431
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:40,520
underestimated the most was them to continue playing how they

1432
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:43,159
wanted to on offense at full strength, and then just

1433
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:45,960
what the depth would wind up doing for this team,

1434
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:48,520
because I think that depth contributes to why they're able

1435
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:50,920
to play the way that they do on offense.

1436
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:53,159
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm ready to say that, Like,

1437
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:57,039
broadly speaking, the NBA has just leveled up in terms

1438
01:10:57,039 --> 01:11:00,479
of maybe it's coaching staff, maybe it's analytics staff in

1439
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:03,439
just figuring out like, yeah, we over index on this

1440
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:05,880
and we're weak here, but here's how we should play

1441
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:07,560
to get the most out of this talent that we have.

1442
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:09,359
Like we just talked about the Heat and now we're

1443
01:11:09,359 --> 01:11:11,479
talking about the Raptors, and those are two teams I

1444
01:11:11,479 --> 01:11:15,079
think that are not like what you'd call balanced or

1445
01:11:15,119 --> 01:11:20,119
capable of playing like conventional basketball and excelling. But it's

1446
01:11:20,159 --> 01:11:22,760
like they are. They have a lot of like a

1447
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:26,359
couple things and they're just leaning into strengths, you know,

1448
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:29,119
Like the Raptors have like length and athleticism and good

1449
01:11:29,159 --> 01:11:31,880
passers and depth, and it's like, Okay, we'll play this

1450
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:33,720
way and get the most out of it. It doesn't matter

1451
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:36,439
that Murray Boyles and like Ingram and Barnes and Peerle,

1452
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:38,600
like that's what those are, all weird fits. Like yeah,

1453
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:40,560
those are issues, But do you see what I'm you

1454
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:42,159
know what I mean? Like it does feel like we're

1455
01:11:42,199 --> 01:11:44,399
seeing more and more of like we're gonna play this

1456
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:47,359
kind of The Raptors aren't extreme in like the same

1457
01:11:47,359 --> 01:11:49,840
way the Heat are or the Rockets are, but like,

1458
01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:52,600
I don't know, it's starting to feel like teams are

1459
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:56,399
more willing to just we're gonna do some weirder stuff

1460
01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:59,359
and like play sort of an unbalanced way because that's

1461
01:11:59,399 --> 01:12:01,159
who we have and that's how we'll be best and

1462
01:12:01,199 --> 01:12:03,560
like maybe there's just we've did the league just get

1463
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:04,880
smarter every year.

1464
01:12:06,079 --> 01:12:08,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. It's we also might just

1465
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:10,159
be do we need to start looking at teams where

1466
01:12:10,159 --> 01:12:12,359
it's if you can actually map out an eight or

1467
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:14,920
nine man rotation of real NBA players.

1468
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:15,520
Speaker 2: Not like how talents.

1469
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:18,359
Speaker 1: Sure you have to stretch it, Yeah, it's if if

1470
01:12:18,399 --> 01:12:20,359
you can just like the Heat would be another good

1471
01:12:20,359 --> 01:12:23,199
example of this, and they don't necessarily have a top

1472
01:12:23,279 --> 01:12:25,560
ten guy, So yeah, we know the Lakers will be

1473
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:27,880
good because they have Luca, or that the Bucks will

1474
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:29,520
kill opponents when your Honis is on the floor. It

1475
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:31,920
happens when he's off. If you just have the blueprint

1476
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:34,359
of no, we can name you eight nine guys right

1477
01:12:34,359 --> 01:12:37,319
now that would belong in an NBA rotation, not just yours.

1478
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:40,359
We might just be understay in the value of that.

1479
01:12:40,239 --> 01:12:43,119
Speaker 2: Right well, Pacers last year, same thing, it's like, well, yeah,

1480
01:12:43,159 --> 01:12:45,000
we could go deep as you want, Like we'll just

1481
01:12:45,079 --> 01:12:47,000
we'll play fast and everyone we put on the floor

1482
01:12:47,039 --> 01:12:49,479
is good. Deal with that, like, because you probably can't

1483
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:52,359
do that most nights. You know, as an opponent, I

1484
01:12:52,399 --> 01:12:55,239
would put a button on this and say, we're talking

1485
01:12:55,279 --> 01:12:57,760
regular season for all of these teams so far.

1486
01:12:57,920 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 1: No, they're winning the title.

1487
01:12:59,039 --> 01:13:02,039
Speaker 2: It's gonna be I think. I think my theory that like,

1488
01:13:02,079 --> 01:13:05,880
well we can be unbalanced and successful, that's gonna run

1489
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:08,319
into like some higher hurdles I think in the playoffs.

1490
01:13:08,319 --> 01:13:11,479
But we are where we are in the season, so

1491
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:12,560
that's all we can talk about.

1492
01:13:13,159 --> 01:13:15,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm buying what I'm seeing from the Raptors definitely

1493
01:13:15,439 --> 01:13:17,680
regular season wise, but there they'll be. I want to

1494
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:20,239
see them and maybe the heat, Like, I don't want

1495
01:13:20,239 --> 01:13:23,199
to see those teams make changes before the playoffs because

1496
01:13:23,199 --> 01:13:25,079
I want to see what this looks for those two teams,

1497
01:13:25,119 --> 01:13:26,920
especially what it looks like in the playoffs.

1498
01:13:27,079 --> 01:13:30,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got to get into some lightning round topics

1499
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:31,800
here pretty soon. I think we're running short.

1500
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:33,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're up, So pick one.

1501
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:39,880
Speaker 2: Let's talk about some uh some kind of a blow

1502
01:13:39,920 --> 01:13:42,960
it up potential teams, like the disaster teams I guess

1503
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:45,640
you'd call them. Yeah, they're all pretty big disasters. So

1504
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:53,119
which of let's just say the following Dallas, Sacramento, Indiana, Memphis,

1505
01:13:53,199 --> 01:13:57,960
and the Clippers is most likely or best position or

1506
01:13:58,079 --> 01:14:02,560
makes them would be best served by blowing it up,

1507
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:05,920
and I'm gonna I'm gonna rank them starting at the

1508
01:14:06,039 --> 01:14:09,680
end of this just so we can kind of dispense

1509
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:11,479
with them and you tell me if you agree or disagree.

1510
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:15,600
So to me, there's like there's five teams here, one, three, four, five,

1511
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:17,199
and I have a four A and a four B

1512
01:14:17,319 --> 01:14:20,520
at the end of the list, which is like, it's

1513
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:23,520
more about can they blow it up? And how easy

1514
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:25,680
is that going to be? And that is four A

1515
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:28,039
is the Kings and four B is the Clippers. Not

1516
01:14:28,119 --> 01:14:30,239
saying neither of those teams should blow it up, it's

1517
01:14:30,319 --> 01:14:33,239
just like, what's that look like? I think they both

1518
01:14:33,359 --> 01:14:36,840
and the Kings absolutely need to. But if you're the Clippers,

1519
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:41,239
all right, are you interested potential trade suitor and James

1520
01:14:41,239 --> 01:14:45,239
Harden or Kawhi Leonard at high costs? No? Okay? Are

1521
01:14:45,279 --> 01:14:48,600
you interested in like the fourteen? Oh shit, they got

1522
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:53,720
old fast served and role players we have? I mean maybe,

1523
01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:55,560
but like what's the return on that? Are we getting

1524
01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:59,680
seconds and like equally useless money? Really hard for the

1525
01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:06,000
clip the Kings. It's like Deroza Levine Sabonis too, he's hurt.

1526
01:15:06,119 --> 01:15:09,479
It's gonna miss a month with the Tormentiscus like minimum,

1527
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:13,399
who's looking at those contracts and seeing positive value. I

1528
01:15:13,439 --> 01:15:16,600
mean Keegan Murray hasn't hasn't played, or I think maybe

1529
01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:18,840
he just came back. Either way, it's like, yeah, team's

1530
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:23,720
just interested in him, so hyper domos to not play right,

1531
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:26,399
So it's really hard for those teams. So then we'll

1532
01:15:26,479 --> 01:15:29,239
jump back to the top of the list best position

1533
01:15:29,359 --> 01:15:31,520
to or makes the most sense to quote unquote blow

1534
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:34,359
it up to me. Dallas is number one, and we've

1535
01:15:34,399 --> 01:15:36,640
already got the rumblings of the eighty stuff and Mark

1536
01:15:36,680 --> 01:15:38,880
Cuban posturing like no, no, no, we're not trading him,

1537
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:40,159
which is like, of course, what you do.

1538
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:42,800
Speaker 1: Did you read I'm sorry you read the Tim McMahon

1539
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:46,760
piece where quote the source that said when they were

1540
01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:50,479
asking about Mark Cuban feeling more involved, like he's floating

1541
01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:51,880
in his Sketchers right now.

1542
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:59,600
Speaker 2: That's that's from the Sketchers brand rep. Probably, so I

1543
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:02,239
think it's Dallas because you have Anthony Davis to trade,

1544
01:16:02,680 --> 01:16:05,319
you have the well, yeah, why wouldn't you start over

1545
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:07,680
or not not totally start over, but like you have

1546
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:11,680
Cooper Flag, so there's your foundational piece. I still like

1547
01:16:12,359 --> 01:16:14,600
basically all their role players. You know, I love PJ.

1548
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:17,840
Washington like you. Every time I mentioned him, you have

1549
01:16:17,880 --> 01:16:20,439
to remind me he can't be traded. I wouldn't trade PJ. Washington,

1550
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:22,039
I'll say that, but you.

1551
01:16:22,039 --> 01:16:23,800
Speaker 1: Wouldn't trade it. PJ.

1552
01:16:23,960 --> 01:16:28,399
Speaker 2: Washington if you move, If you move Anthony Davis and

1553
01:16:28,479 --> 01:16:31,760
don't like, just erase him from the salary sheet. The

1554
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:34,319
only guy making more than eighteen million dollars on Dallas's

1555
01:16:34,319 --> 01:16:37,359
payroll next year is Kyrie Irving. So like, they got

1556
01:16:37,399 --> 01:16:40,640
all these theoretically tradeable numbers if they want to do something,

1557
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:44,439
so like they just and to turn the page aspect

1558
01:16:44,479 --> 01:16:46,319
of it. With Nico Harrison being gone, like now you

1559
01:16:46,359 --> 01:16:49,560
can analyze this roster with clear eyes and not feeling

1560
01:16:49,640 --> 01:16:52,960
pop committed. So Dallas makes the most sense and seems

1561
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:55,439
to be best positioned and probably should be incentivized to

1562
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:57,840
kind of blow up is maybe too strong, but like

1563
01:16:57,960 --> 01:17:01,119
we're going to refresh a little bit here after that.

1564
01:17:01,239 --> 01:17:04,920
It's to me it's the Grizzlies, just because you know,

1565
01:17:05,239 --> 01:17:07,439
the Jamrant era feels like it's coming to a close.

1566
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:09,960
Already did the Desmond Bine trades, So you obviously are

1567
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:12,079
open to the concept of kind of moving off some

1568
01:17:12,119 --> 01:17:14,560
core guys. The Pacers I stuck in the middle because

1569
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:16,199
I don't want them to blow it up. I just

1570
01:17:16,319 --> 01:17:17,960
it's like, I don't know what that would even look

1571
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:20,319
like for them. So maybe you can agree disagree with

1572
01:17:20,359 --> 01:17:22,000
the rankings, talk about whoever you want.

1573
01:17:23,079 --> 01:17:26,000
Speaker 1: The Pacers feel least likely and also like they shouldn't.

1574
01:17:26,039 --> 01:17:27,800
It was just that they were the team, like this

1575
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:31,119
group of teams was who were disastrous relative to expectations,

1576
01:17:31,119 --> 01:17:34,359
and even without Tyre's Haliburn. You and I know they've

1577
01:17:34,359 --> 01:17:37,600
dealt with injuries beside from aside from Haliburn. We look

1578
01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:40,199
at them and say, oh, they're gonna have as many

1579
01:17:40,279 --> 01:17:43,560
wins fifteen games out of the season as the Brooklyn Nets.

1580
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:46,439
Speaker 2: Well and two. I would point out that like both

1581
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:50,520
for the Pacers and the Kings, for different reasons, it's like,

1582
01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:53,199
this is fine because the Pacers got their pickback and

1583
01:17:53,239 --> 01:17:55,359
t and tyrese Alburn's out, so it's like, all right,

1584
01:17:55,399 --> 01:17:57,800
the gap year was always like a maybe kind of

1585
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:00,720
in there thing, and now it just isybody got hurt.

1586
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:03,479
And for the Kings it's like, well, you don't have

1587
01:18:03,479 --> 01:18:06,800
a choice because you're this bad, and the vibes are

1588
01:18:06,800 --> 01:18:09,279
this messed up and now your best player's hurt, so

1589
01:18:09,439 --> 01:18:13,399
like they're not. It's like you talk about like executives

1590
01:18:13,399 --> 01:18:16,720
taking a club out of the coach's bag. Sometimes it's like, well,

1591
01:18:17,159 --> 01:18:20,399
now the King's just like they cannot win, so there's

1592
01:18:20,399 --> 01:18:23,359
no reason they can't go chase the next Levine or

1593
01:18:23,399 --> 01:18:25,920
DeRozan and they just have to be bad. So it's

1594
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:28,760
kind of like it's not the worst thing that they're disasters.

1595
01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:30,000
But sorry, go go ahead.

1596
01:18:30,399 --> 01:18:33,520
Speaker 1: No, no, that's totally fine. I would agree most of

1597
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:35,800
what you said. The matters are probably the right answer.

1598
01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:39,039
I agree with everything you said about the Clippers. I

1599
01:18:39,159 --> 01:18:41,119
do kind of feel like I want to see the

1600
01:18:41,159 --> 01:18:43,760
Grizzlies just blow it up and get it over with, though,

1601
01:18:43,800 --> 01:18:47,159
because it's you're probably trading John Moran at the idea

1602
01:18:47,199 --> 01:18:49,560
of his value. I just don't know if it's ever

1603
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:52,079
going to be much higher than it is now. And

1604
01:18:52,119 --> 01:18:55,600
there's just like you already traded Desmond Bane. You've telegraphed that,

1605
01:18:55,640 --> 01:18:58,399
like you're not married to this era, so it sort

1606
01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:01,720
of feels like you're unnecessarily hovering in the in between.

1607
01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:04,239
Maybe they look at it as well. Right now we

1608
01:19:04,319 --> 01:19:06,560
have Ja Morant and we're still pretty bad.

1609
01:19:06,760 --> 01:19:08,680
Speaker 2: Or you know, eleventh in the Western eleventh in the

1610
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:12,279
Western Conference, you sort of Jamaran, we sort of that,

1611
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:16,800
but he's there, so I think, And also I'm wondering

1612
01:19:16,880 --> 01:19:21,079
if their baseline of assets outside of Okay, yes, you

1613
01:19:21,079 --> 01:19:23,680
have Anthony Davis and Dallas, you have Jamran and Memphis.

1614
01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:26,920
When you trickle down, who has the more valuable role

1615
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:28,960
players that you could kind of get things for?

1616
01:19:29,079 --> 01:19:31,520
Speaker 1: And I actually think it might be but Grizzlies just

1617
01:19:31,560 --> 01:19:33,720
because PJ. Washington can't be traded in Dallas. I know

1618
01:19:33,760 --> 01:19:36,520
teams want Daniel Gafford, but what are you even getting

1619
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:39,920
for Derek Lively at this point? Whereas if you're Memphis

1620
01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:43,239
you also have oh you in theory, you have two dudes.

1621
01:19:43,319 --> 01:19:44,960
I don't know where they would land on this, but

1622
01:19:45,159 --> 01:19:47,800
if you wanted to trade Jared Jackson Junior, imagine what

1623
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:49,359
you get for him.

1624
01:19:49,399 --> 01:19:52,279
Speaker 2: So I assume they don't want to they renegotiate and extended,

1625
01:19:52,319 --> 01:19:54,319
But Santi al Dama, what is it?

1626
01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:56,600
Speaker 1: What can you get for someone like him? I just

1627
01:19:56,680 --> 01:19:59,000
and then Grizzlies are just so jumbled. I have no

1628
01:19:59,119 --> 01:20:03,199
idea because let's say this, we know what the mass

1629
01:20:03,199 --> 01:20:04,640
will do if they blow it up? What is it?

1630
01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:07,119
Speaker 2: What are the Grizzlies doing if they blow it up?

1631
01:20:07,119 --> 01:20:09,119
If they don't blow it up, I have zero idea.

1632
01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:12,000
And so right, the reason they're trickiest because like, how

1633
01:20:12,239 --> 01:20:14,840
how it's not easy to trade jam Rant? Alright, well

1634
01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:16,920
it's not easy to trade them and get anything back.

1635
01:20:16,960 --> 01:20:19,199
They're like, yeah, of course we'll do that. It's just

1636
01:20:19,399 --> 01:20:22,000
your your the market is brutal. But I think you're

1637
01:20:22,079 --> 01:20:25,640
right that, like the longer this goes on, maybe it

1638
01:20:25,680 --> 01:20:26,720
doesn't get any better.

1639
01:20:27,680 --> 01:20:32,800
Speaker 1: Let's move on to Okay, Grant, who is the best

1640
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:35,000
team in the NBA? We're going to operate under the

1641
01:20:35,039 --> 01:20:40,359
assumption that Okac is one. I know bold, and I'm

1642
01:20:40,359 --> 01:20:43,079
gonna say Denver is two. I haven't seen anyone that

1643
01:20:43,159 --> 01:20:47,000
makes me think denver Is is belonging in a tier

1644
01:20:47,039 --> 01:20:49,359
with anyone other than Okase. It feels like maybe those

1645
01:20:49,399 --> 01:20:51,199
two teams each belong to their own tiers?

1646
01:20:51,239 --> 01:20:54,279
Speaker 2: Even can can I steer us to two teams to

1647
01:20:54,319 --> 01:20:55,159
really focus on?

1648
01:20:56,439 --> 01:20:59,520
Speaker 1: So the Pistons good?

1649
01:21:00,039 --> 01:21:03,279
Speaker 2: What would you say if I think it's Houston or

1650
01:21:03,319 --> 01:21:06,960
Detroit need to be the top. Things we talked about.

1651
01:21:08,239 --> 01:21:11,319
Speaker 1: That wouldn't shock me too much because I don't. The

1652
01:21:11,359 --> 01:21:14,239
Knicks just don't. I watched a lot of Knicks. Everybody

1653
01:21:14,279 --> 01:21:16,359
knows that they don't have that level. It's just they

1654
01:21:16,399 --> 01:21:18,199
don't have it. I like what the offense looks like

1655
01:21:18,279 --> 01:21:20,199
under Mike Brown, but they need to trade at minimum

1656
01:21:20,199 --> 01:21:23,199
for at least one other good combo wing because they

1657
01:21:23,199 --> 01:21:26,279
can't defend with og An Andobi off the off the floor.

1658
01:21:26,439 --> 01:21:28,560
Speaker 2: The defense is the issue right with them. That's that's

1659
01:21:28,600 --> 01:21:30,560
where I was like, Oh, I don't know that that that.

1660
01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:34,720
Speaker 1: Bumped bump and the defense and the sample sizes getting

1661
01:21:34,720 --> 01:21:36,760
a little big when you look at last season, he

1662
01:21:37,079 --> 01:21:39,880
like Mitchell Robinson, can't anchor the defense by himself, and

1663
01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:42,720
it's I don't know that you need og Ananobi to

1664
01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:45,199
anchor a defense when you have liabilities in Cat and

1665
01:21:45,239 --> 01:21:47,520
Brunson rather than just one of them, to where it's

1666
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:51,279
probably unrealistic to ask Mitchell Robinson to shoulder even covering

1667
01:21:51,359 --> 01:21:52,960
up for Cat at this point when you look at

1668
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:56,199
his past ankle injuries. It's not the Knicks. It could

1669
01:21:56,399 --> 01:21:58,960
I I would nominate to put the calves in there

1670
01:21:59,159 --> 01:22:01,720
because they to be healthy and I kind of don't

1671
01:22:01,720 --> 01:22:05,359
trust them. But the talent on paper, and I don't

1672
01:22:05,399 --> 01:22:07,560
know that they deal with physicality all that well just yet.

1673
01:22:07,560 --> 01:22:11,600
Donovan Mitchell is just incredible. Evan Moby still has the

1674
01:22:12,359 --> 01:22:14,880
Evan Moley might be the best two way player in me,

1675
01:22:15,079 --> 01:22:16,920
like he's certainly in the commerce theaters him. There's I

1676
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:19,279
mean non Webby division, but just two way straight player.

1677
01:22:19,319 --> 01:22:21,760
I know that's a dumb honor. Let's see what they

1678
01:22:21,760 --> 01:22:24,960
look like at full strength. But the way I was

1679
01:22:24,960 --> 01:22:28,399
gonna say it is do the Pistons belong in here?

1680
01:22:28,399 --> 01:22:30,119
Speaker 2: Because I was trying to look at this as teams

1681
01:22:30,359 --> 01:22:33,279
who don't need to make a move to be considered

1682
01:22:33,319 --> 01:22:36,199
the third, that have the third best like title shot.

1683
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:39,319
Speaker 1: I'm not putting the Pistons there yet. I think that

1684
01:22:39,359 --> 01:22:42,600
they still need one very clear thing that we've talked about,

1685
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:46,000
and I do not believe that that one very clear

1686
01:22:46,039 --> 01:22:49,279
thing is a healthy Jade and Ivy I would agree

1687
01:22:49,279 --> 01:22:51,199
with that, I think.

1688
01:22:52,359 --> 01:22:55,079
Speaker 2: So I went into this thinking like, we have to

1689
01:22:55,119 --> 01:22:57,479
talk about the Pistons, but it sort of can't be them, right,

1690
01:22:57,600 --> 01:23:00,439
especially if we're comparing it to Houston, Who's that has

1691
01:23:00,439 --> 01:23:03,680
the better net rating that you would certainly still say

1692
01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:07,239
has the more established stars in like Shingoon. I mean,

1693
01:23:07,319 --> 01:23:09,520
Kate is You could say Kate is probably the best

1694
01:23:09,560 --> 01:23:11,720
player on either of those two teams, right, that seems fair.

1695
01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:14,079
He's he's better. I think I would take Kate over

1696
01:23:14,119 --> 01:23:17,279
Shangoon if we're drafting Rockets and Pistons collectively.

1697
01:23:18,319 --> 01:23:21,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I I, well, I just did Actually, Okay, it's

1698
01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:23,920
going to drop soon, that's true. So yeah, I guess

1699
01:23:24,119 --> 01:23:25,239
that's why am I talking about this?

1700
01:23:25,319 --> 01:23:29,119
Speaker 2: You did it? But but like so Houston just has

1701
01:23:29,399 --> 01:23:31,680
I don't know the track record they like they have

1702
01:23:31,800 --> 01:23:34,239
Kevin Durant, like im and Thompson, everybody agrees is great.

1703
01:23:34,279 --> 01:23:39,319
There's the defensive infrastructure, the size, the offensive rebounding advantages,

1704
01:23:39,359 --> 01:23:41,640
and then if you dig into the numbers, like to me,

1705
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:44,840
there are almost more thing if you now what you said,

1706
01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:46,920
maybe is where the conversations to start and finish is

1707
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:49,520
like you need Ivy's not solving it. You need someone

1708
01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:51,640
in the Ivy spot that is way better than Jade

1709
01:23:51,640 --> 01:23:54,159
and Ivy secondary creator, way better than backup pointer, I

1710
01:23:54,159 --> 01:23:56,680
would say too for sure, way better than Lover. What

1711
01:23:56,720 --> 01:24:00,640
about don Is Jenkins though, well, he's like legit good.

1712
01:24:01,239 --> 01:24:03,600
It's like he really is actually good.

1713
01:24:04,079 --> 01:24:05,439
Speaker 1: I want to make this And we did a long

1714
01:24:05,479 --> 01:24:07,399
thing on the Pistons, and I know Pistons fans, a

1715
01:24:07,399 --> 01:24:09,359
lot of them think nobody talks about their team. The

1716
01:24:09,359 --> 01:24:11,560
Pistons absolutely look like a top four team in the East,

1717
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:13,720
but the third team most likely to win a title.

1718
01:24:14,079 --> 01:24:18,039
I'm just saying they're one move away. For me, putting

1719
01:24:18,039 --> 01:24:19,840
them in that discussion is a hall off. Trying to

1720
01:24:19,840 --> 01:24:20,720
boil it down too.

1721
01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:23,199
Speaker 2: Don't I don't think that's crazy. I think I probably

1722
01:24:23,239 --> 01:24:25,840
agree with you. But as I'm looking for stuff to flag,

1723
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:28,720
like how we separating Houston and Detroit? All right? Like,

1724
01:24:28,960 --> 01:24:33,520
so I'm gonna look at Houston's ridiculous three point shooting

1725
01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:36,640
and say that's not sustaining, right, I'm definitely gonna start there.

1726
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:39,800
They're number one in the league the offensive rebounding. That's

1727
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:41,800
gonna be there for the Rockets. The Pistons are number

1728
01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:44,119
three an offenseive rebound rate. Like, I don't think that's

1729
01:24:44,159 --> 01:24:48,680
any less real. The Pistons two are eighteenth and three

1730
01:24:48,720 --> 01:24:52,640
point percentage. Now that that feels like one you could say, well,

1731
01:24:52,680 --> 01:24:54,520
that'll get better, but two, like, I don't know will

1732
01:24:54,560 --> 01:24:57,199
it because of the personnel. So that's what you flag there.

1733
01:24:57,600 --> 01:25:00,600
I think the biggest thing that I'm conc learned about

1734
01:25:00,640 --> 01:25:04,840
other than Detroit's maybe needing somebody in the IVY spot

1735
01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:08,479
that's better than ivy. The Pistons, like, as part of

1736
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:12,079
all this paint dominance and rim stuff, they just foul

1737
01:25:12,119 --> 01:25:14,680
the shit out of everybody. Uh And I just that

1738
01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:16,680
they're the highest opponent free throw rate in the league.

1739
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:20,520
Houston has the lowest, and the difference is ten more

1740
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:24,199
made free throws per hundred field goal attempts per like,

1741
01:25:24,239 --> 01:25:27,359
which is just like you're spotting ten Like that's just like,

1742
01:25:28,760 --> 01:25:30,720
That's why you might circle back to Houston, is what

1743
01:25:30,760 --> 01:25:32,199
I'm saying. Is like, even if you don't believe in

1744
01:25:32,199 --> 01:25:34,920
the three point shooting, the points the Pistons give away

1745
01:25:35,479 --> 01:25:38,399
by fouling so much, it's just like that you can't

1746
01:25:38,439 --> 01:25:41,199
continue to do that, especially if you don't address the

1747
01:25:41,239 --> 01:25:41,880
IVY spot.

1748
01:25:42,399 --> 01:25:46,760
Speaker 1: I also give the edge to Houston because of Reed Shepherd.

1749
01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:49,239
I know that this is going to sound painfully compred

1750
01:25:49,800 --> 01:25:50,720
but no, no.

1751
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:53,039
Speaker 2: Hold on, what if what if Reed Shepherd was on

1752
01:25:53,039 --> 01:25:54,760
the Pistons, how would you feel about the Pistons?

1753
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:57,520
Speaker 1: Would probably might pick the Pistons well, Bill, because no,

1754
01:25:57,640 --> 01:26:00,960
here's the actual thing. We both coming into this season,

1755
01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:03,800
we both probably would have identified these teams as having

1756
01:26:03,800 --> 01:26:06,439
almost the same need. Maybe we might have used on

1757
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:09,199
a higher urgency with Houston to where I didn't know

1758
01:26:09,239 --> 01:26:10,840
Alprin Schankin was going to bring the ball up the

1759
01:26:10,840 --> 01:26:13,439
floor on basically every single possession. We don't it was

1760
01:26:13,439 --> 01:26:15,479
gonna have to be more of a men Thompson doing

1761
01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:18,159
that stuff. Especially with Brett van Fleet injured. You have

1762
01:26:18,239 --> 01:26:20,680
al Prince Shang Gun with this version, this version of

1763
01:26:20,720 --> 01:26:22,920
alp Prince Shang Gound excuse me, so you have Alperton

1764
01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:25,680
Shang Gouden King cunning him the heads of your offensive

1765
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:31,479
snakes today. Reed, Shepherd is the better second guy to

1766
01:26:31,560 --> 01:26:34,039
come in either score a bunch of points or initiate

1767
01:26:34,079 --> 01:26:36,880
the offense than anyone the Pistons have right now to

1768
01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:39,359
do that, and he has proven that. Now.

1769
01:26:39,479 --> 01:26:41,920
Speaker 2: I think I'm not gonna sit here and say, oh, like, yeah,

1770
01:26:41,960 --> 01:26:43,760
you go Ben shank Gun in the playoffs and Reach

1771
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:44,920
Shepherd will run things.

1772
01:26:45,279 --> 01:26:48,520
Speaker 1: But we're trending in sort of that direction. So I

1773
01:26:48,640 --> 01:26:53,720
think their second deary, their best second offensive player. I

1774
01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:57,239
really think that Houston one has more options because Kevin

1775
01:26:57,319 --> 01:27:01,199
durant Aman Thompson reed Shepherd. They have the ability to

1776
01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:04,479
in my eyes, to play in a bunch of different

1777
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:06,720
ways offensively and to beat you a bunch of different

1778
01:27:06,720 --> 01:27:09,359
ways offensively, where with Detroit it is more likely to

1779
01:27:09,439 --> 01:27:11,119
bog down and become cake.

1780
01:27:11,199 --> 01:27:15,000
Speaker 2: Cunningham needs to do literally everything, and like the defense

1781
01:27:15,079 --> 01:27:18,000
and the toughness, the physicality, like all that stuff works

1782
01:27:18,039 --> 01:27:20,640
in the regular season, it'll work in some playoff matchups,

1783
01:27:20,840 --> 01:27:24,439
but you're gonna need an audible offensively at some point

1784
01:27:25,039 --> 01:27:25,680
you're just close.

1785
01:27:26,399 --> 01:27:27,920
Speaker 1: Like I feel like now we're demeaning the Pistons. The

1786
01:27:27,920 --> 01:27:30,199
bigger insult Worth throwing is why aren't the Calves just

1787
01:27:30,239 --> 01:27:31,079
the answer here?

1788
01:27:31,239 --> 01:27:33,800
Speaker 2: Well, so the reason I didn't focus on them is

1789
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:36,600
because I think the analysis is pretty quick, which is like,

1790
01:27:36,840 --> 01:27:39,079
I don't know, they haven't been healthy this year. Garland's

1791
01:27:39,079 --> 01:27:42,560
toe is a problem again. But if you have all

1792
01:27:42,600 --> 01:27:44,800
four of those guys there, and then like if Max

1793
01:27:44,840 --> 01:27:47,560
Struce is like if they have if they could get

1794
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:50,640
their rotation healthy, it probably just is the Cavs. But

1795
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:52,479
you'd say, like, I don't know, man, they just like

1796
01:27:52,520 --> 01:27:54,680
you said that, I'm not sure about them with physicality

1797
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:58,880
and they're kind of defined by their playoff disappointments so far,

1798
01:27:59,079 --> 01:28:00,960
at least with this crew. But now there are reasons

1799
01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:03,039
for that. But like an injury is a factor there.

1800
01:28:03,079 --> 01:28:06,119
But like the analysis for Cleveland is quite a bit

1801
01:28:06,239 --> 01:28:09,119
like more concise and maybe not that interesting, So that's

1802
01:28:09,159 --> 01:28:12,560
part of it. But like, I do think the way

1803
01:28:12,600 --> 01:28:15,159
that Detroit and Houston have played, like I other than

1804
01:28:15,159 --> 01:28:18,079
the Rockets three point shooting, like, none of this feels

1805
01:28:18,319 --> 01:28:20,760
flimsy to me. Like that's not to say they're perfect.

1806
01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:23,560
I think we've we've isolated what the issues are and

1807
01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:26,439
what they might need. But I don't I think if

1808
01:28:26,479 --> 01:28:30,039
Cleveland enters the conversation, which it will if they get,

1809
01:28:30,119 --> 01:28:32,079
if it gets healthy, neither of these two teams are

1810
01:28:32,159 --> 01:28:34,000
leaving it. I don't think. I think what we've seen

1811
01:28:34,039 --> 01:28:36,039
so far from Detroit and Houston is like, yeah, they

1812
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:38,279
should be in this conversation for sure.

1813
01:28:38,640 --> 01:28:43,439
Speaker 1: Our final question, grant what should be contender has more

1814
01:28:43,479 --> 01:28:47,840
reason to panic, and that would be the Warriors, the Timberwolves,

1815
01:28:48,159 --> 01:28:49,199
or the Magic.

1816
01:28:50,800 --> 01:28:54,920
Speaker 2: Man. I think it has to be the Warriors, even

1817
01:28:54,960 --> 01:28:58,000
though all their best lineups when everybody's healthy, are still

1818
01:28:58,039 --> 01:29:01,720
just crushing. They're the most US starting lineup is like

1819
01:29:01,760 --> 01:29:05,079
plus nineteen. Their top four most used lineups are all

1820
01:29:05,119 --> 01:29:07,760
better than that, So it's just like, okay, when you

1821
01:29:07,800 --> 01:29:09,600
get into the deep bench and the mix and match

1822
01:29:09,680 --> 01:29:13,520
or the old guys don't play, that's when it falls apart.

1823
01:29:14,119 --> 01:29:16,600
So like the analysis from preseason and now is not

1824
01:29:16,640 --> 01:29:19,640
that different, except like, the team is nine to eight

1825
01:29:19,680 --> 01:29:22,199
and has had some just dog shit losses and Steph

1826
01:29:22,279 --> 01:29:25,319
Curry will give you forty six and forty nine and

1827
01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:28,079
just like truly heroic nights and then book in that

1828
01:29:28,159 --> 01:29:30,880
with like a nine pointer and an eleven pointer, so

1829
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:34,279
he can Curry can still reach the heights. But it

1830
01:29:34,359 --> 01:29:36,840
isn't an everyday thing, which is just how the aging

1831
01:29:36,880 --> 01:29:40,720
curve works. So relative to the Timberwolves, who are like

1832
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:43,119
have kind of like both them and the Magic have

1833
01:29:43,279 --> 01:29:46,359
very much righted the ship over the last two weeks

1834
01:29:46,439 --> 01:29:49,600
or so, I think Minnesota's like six and one, Orlando's

1835
01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:53,640
five and two, and Orlando's peripherals like fifteen defense fifteen

1836
01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:55,720
in offense over the last couple of weeks are just like, yep,

1837
01:29:55,800 --> 01:29:58,359
that's what the good version of Orlando's supposed to look like, right,

1838
01:29:58,439 --> 01:30:02,199
Like that's there they are it's it's harder to get

1839
01:30:02,600 --> 01:30:06,079
concerned about either of those two than it is with

1840
01:30:06,119 --> 01:30:10,319
the Warriors because they just just like the bottom line

1841
01:30:10,319 --> 01:30:13,079
results haven't been as good with Golden State and we

1842
01:30:13,239 --> 01:30:16,520
still haven't had a protracted Steph Absence. He was sick

1843
01:30:16,520 --> 01:30:18,920
for a couple of games, but like the worst hasn't

1844
01:30:18,960 --> 01:30:21,439
happened for Golden State yet. What do you think?

1845
01:30:22,119 --> 01:30:23,880
Speaker 1: I it has to be the age thing with like

1846
01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:26,760
Steve Kerrz, He's done this before, so it's not now

1847
01:30:26,800 --> 01:30:29,520
it's hurting the Warriors. So it's specific. But him saying

1848
01:30:29,560 --> 01:30:31,680
the FBA season needs to be shorter is kind of

1849
01:30:31,720 --> 01:30:34,560
this early is kind of a harbager of we're fucking

1850
01:30:34,640 --> 01:30:36,359
old and we're not going to.

1851
01:30:35,920 --> 01:30:38,720
Speaker 2: Have our best hired man. Yeah, we're tired, man, We're

1852
01:30:38,760 --> 01:30:41,199
too old for this shit. That was That's what That's

1853
01:30:41,279 --> 01:30:43,800
what that rank like. It has to be the Warriors

1854
01:30:44,640 --> 01:30:47,199
also because they play in the West and so with Minnesota,

1855
01:30:47,199 --> 01:30:49,439
it does feel like their offensive baseline is going to

1856
01:30:49,479 --> 01:30:53,039
be super high. I am concerned about their defense, which is, yeah,

1857
01:30:53,079 --> 01:30:54,079
it's well little in State.

1858
01:30:54,319 --> 01:30:58,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's ball containment issues. Anthony Edwards waxing and win

1859
01:30:58,199 --> 01:31:00,640
even he's been rough offensively recently, but you just know

1860
01:31:01,119 --> 01:31:04,079
he'll normalize there. I actually think if we were to

1861
01:31:04,119 --> 01:31:07,479
rank these, I'm still second most concerned about the magic.

1862
01:31:08,159 --> 01:31:13,279
I Okay, great they're fifteenth in offense or great, awesome,

1863
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:15,840
that's why you gave up four first round picks to

1864
01:31:15,840 --> 01:31:19,079
get We're hennry that did Strix from desertit so I

1865
01:31:19,319 --> 01:31:21,960
I because now you're just you're gonna get expensive. You're

1866
01:31:21,960 --> 01:31:24,079
out of move Jaellen Suggs. I will say the dials.

1867
01:31:24,079 --> 01:31:25,640
I'll go to eleven on that dude. It's fun to

1868
01:31:25,640 --> 01:31:28,760
see him playing so well. So I they're top of

1869
01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:31,319
getting what they're getting out of Tristan da Silva. Anthony

1870
01:31:31,319 --> 01:31:34,119
Black is shooting fIF he's shooting fifteen percent on step

1871
01:31:34,119 --> 01:31:36,880
back threes. He's a ball sample. He's looked good. So

1872
01:31:37,319 --> 01:31:40,560
they have the talent, but they also feel like their

1873
01:31:40,640 --> 01:31:44,680
margin for error is just as slim as the Warriors.

1874
01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:47,399
But they play in the East, and that's why it's

1875
01:31:47,439 --> 01:31:50,279
problematic to me, So their offense needs to They're just

1876
01:31:50,600 --> 01:31:53,199
they're trying to play too like they view these it'll

1877
01:31:53,239 --> 01:31:56,399
be like one on three in transition, and they're treating

1878
01:31:56,399 --> 01:31:59,039
it like that's somehow an advantage that's not been playing

1879
01:31:59,079 --> 01:32:01,199
fast needs to me you can bring it back out

1880
01:32:01,239 --> 01:32:04,279
when it's only one on three. So but it's the Warriors,

1881
01:32:04,279 --> 01:32:07,600
they're just yeah, because all the COMINGA stuff, the pod stuff,

1882
01:32:07,640 --> 01:32:10,399
and it's I don't even know because people keep saying, yeah,

1883
01:32:10,439 --> 01:32:11,880
they're a team that needs to make a trade, and

1884
01:32:12,000 --> 01:32:15,359
I'm like, so the the goal is to shorten this

1885
01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:18,920
rotation because you're not just trading Kaminga for four different guys.

1886
01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:20,680
He doesn't mean that much money.

1887
01:32:20,720 --> 01:32:22,880
Speaker 2: I think too, Like the Warriors have now crept up

1888
01:32:22,880 --> 01:32:25,680
to are crept down to last in the league. And turnovers,

1889
01:32:25,800 --> 01:32:27,720
which is just always built in, but now it's getting

1890
01:32:27,800 --> 01:32:30,640
kind of extreme turnover rate. I should say, I don't

1891
01:32:30,640 --> 01:32:33,279
know what the raw total is, said, like, do you

1892
01:32:33,319 --> 01:32:36,000
think it's crazy to say though that like the absolute

1893
01:32:36,079 --> 01:32:38,520
apex level of any of these three teams is still

1894
01:32:38,600 --> 01:32:40,960
highest with the Warriors, But it's just like it's so

1895
01:32:41,319 --> 01:32:45,439
fragile that like you just you might get it, you

1896
01:32:45,439 --> 01:32:47,279
won't get it as frequent as you might with these

1897
01:32:47,279 --> 01:32:49,279
other teams. And so that means the floor is higher

1898
01:32:49,479 --> 01:32:53,239
for both Orlando and Minnesota. Yeah, the floor is higher

1899
01:32:53,279 --> 01:32:54,800
for those two. Yeah, you're right, that's the best way

1900
01:32:54,840 --> 01:32:55,079
for him.

1901
01:32:55,119 --> 01:32:57,840
Speaker 1: The Warriors have the highest ceiling and does that, and

1902
01:32:57,880 --> 01:32:59,640
I guess when you look at their timeline, they are

1903
01:32:59,640 --> 01:33:02,119
the ones that need to operate with the most urgency.

1904
01:33:02,279 --> 01:33:06,199
I just and what's this? What's the idea solve here?

1905
01:33:06,279 --> 01:33:08,720
What is the is there? Is it? Is it an

1906
01:33:08,840 --> 01:33:11,640
archetype of player that can come in and meaningfully change

1907
01:33:11,680 --> 01:33:13,800
things or do you look at this as well, this

1908
01:33:13,880 --> 01:33:16,600
is a we might just need more bodies issue. This

1909
01:33:16,680 --> 01:33:18,760
isn't about getting a singular type of body.

1910
01:33:18,960 --> 01:33:21,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's I don't know that it's not.

1911
01:33:21,960 --> 01:33:24,600
It's not as easy as solving it with like put

1912
01:33:24,640 --> 01:33:27,920
this player in the rotation because it's like the rotation

1913
01:33:28,159 --> 01:33:31,960
when its whole has dominated. So it's but like, so

1914
01:33:32,079 --> 01:33:34,880
the solve is like make these guys less old and

1915
01:33:34,880 --> 01:33:36,760
make them able to play more. And it's just like

1916
01:33:36,800 --> 01:33:39,600
that isn't there? And so yeah, you turn kaminga In

1917
01:33:39,720 --> 01:33:42,880
or Pajemski into something I guess, and maybe that makes

1918
01:33:42,920 --> 01:33:44,760
it so you don't have to lean as hard on

1919
01:33:44,760 --> 01:33:47,479
on the old guys. But actually one solve would be

1920
01:33:47,520 --> 01:33:50,359
all Al Horford has been wildly inconsistent and that has

1921
01:33:50,399 --> 01:33:52,439
had some really terrible nights and might just be at

1922
01:33:52,439 --> 01:33:54,399
an age where it's like, oh, it happened.

1923
01:33:54,520 --> 01:33:58,039
Speaker 1: He's he's he's suffering from that Chris Paul arc Last year,

1924
01:33:58,119 --> 01:34:00,720
how good was Chris Paul starts every game for this, Yeah,

1925
01:34:00,720 --> 01:34:02,520
it's happened. This year, it got it was gonna happen,

1926
01:34:02,680 --> 01:34:04,600
and I'm not it's it's too early to say it's

1927
01:34:04,760 --> 01:34:07,920
it's it has officially happened, and it's irreversible. But the

1928
01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:11,479
early results have suggested that, yeah, well if he's thirty nine,

1929
01:34:11,680 --> 01:34:13,840
so this is this is what it looks like, one

1930
01:34:13,880 --> 01:34:15,560
real quick thing that I didn't think it was going

1931
01:34:15,600 --> 01:34:17,279
to be this bad. And I know it's still early,

1932
01:34:17,359 --> 01:34:20,840
but them being a minus seven when Jimmy Butler plays

1933
01:34:20,840 --> 01:34:24,560
without Steph Curry, to the point of having Jimmy Butler

1934
01:34:25,159 --> 01:34:27,399
on this team, not that it doesn't eat it, but

1935
01:34:27,399 --> 01:34:28,159
you get what I'm saying.

1936
01:34:28,199 --> 01:34:30,880
Speaker 2: That was the one principal benefit was that he would

1937
01:34:30,880 --> 01:34:32,800
prop up those minutes and you don't just give it,

1938
01:34:33,000 --> 01:34:36,119
give everything back when when STEP's off the floor. Yeah, no,

1939
01:34:36,199 --> 01:34:38,600
that's a huge issue. The turnovers are a huge issue

1940
01:34:38,840 --> 01:34:41,840
coming in Pajemski not performing the expectations. I don't know

1941
01:34:41,840 --> 01:34:45,520
what expectations were. Not performing is an issue all foreseeable,

1942
01:34:45,720 --> 01:34:47,319
right y Oh, then it's gonna get healthy at some

1943
01:34:47,359 --> 01:34:49,279
point and everything will be solid. I'll tell you what,

1944
01:34:49,479 --> 01:34:52,159
if he looks good at all, Pajemski's minutes are gonna

1945
01:34:52,159 --> 01:34:55,880
get cut, buddy, like if he makes open threes and

1946
01:34:56,000 --> 01:34:59,640
drives a little bit, just saying yeah, no, it's got

1947
01:34:59,680 --> 01:35:01,560
to be the world. They but we knew that, right,

1948
01:35:01,600 --> 01:35:02,600
we knew they were fragile.

1949
01:35:02,960 --> 01:35:05,520
Speaker 1: Do you have a second, really quick, between Orlando and Mini?

1950
01:35:05,520 --> 01:35:06,600
Who are you more concerned about?

1951
01:35:06,680 --> 01:35:09,880
Speaker 2: Oh, Orlando, Yeah, just because the offense. I'm gonna need

1952
01:35:09,920 --> 01:35:11,399
to see a lot more from the offense to believe

1953
01:35:11,439 --> 01:35:14,960
in it. And the silver lining might be the Orlando

1954
01:35:15,039 --> 01:35:17,479
is a new coach away, except that that's a next

1955
01:35:17,560 --> 01:35:19,520
year thing. You know, it's enough what we've talked about.

1956
01:35:19,520 --> 01:35:21,479
How that won't solve it this year if the offense

1957
01:35:21,560 --> 01:35:23,439
just continues to ebb and flow.

1958
01:35:24,439 --> 01:35:26,119
Speaker 1: Are you ready to take this out of here? Sir?

1959
01:35:26,439 --> 01:35:29,520
Speaker 2: I am ready. Thanks everybody for listening, for watching. Please

1960
01:35:29,560 --> 01:35:31,720
remember rate review, subcribele does a comment here give us

1961
01:35:31,720 --> 01:35:33,479
some hype points if you're watching this on YouTube.

1962
01:35:33,520 --> 01:35:34,159
Speaker 1: We still don't know.

1963
01:35:34,159 --> 01:35:36,840
Speaker 2: What those are, but we like them. Tell your friends,

1964
01:35:36,920 --> 01:35:38,600
tell your enemy, Join our discord Linch for that and

1965
01:35:38,640 --> 01:35:42,119
YouTube and podcast description, so only time shout out to

1966
01:35:42,119 --> 01:35:43,720
Frank Latin apologus Jared Allen