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Speaker 1: And so we don't see a lot of competition with

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developers looking to buy these properties. We do see other

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hoteliers that might want to take them over and upgrade

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them and maybe you know, take them from a Hampton

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into a Mariad or you know, get them, get them rebranded.

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But we typically find that are like, we're the best buyer.

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We're the best buyer for these assets, and the sellers

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want to work with us because we can pay a

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little bit more than that hotelier is willing to. Because

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hotels are worth three to five times the revenue that

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they generate, whereas an apartment building is worth seven to

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twelve times the revenue that it generates.

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Speaker 2: You are listening to Carrie Let's's Financial Survival Network, where

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you get valuable information you just can't find anywhere else

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to thrive in today's trying times. You need the Financial

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Survival Network now more than ever. Go to Financial Survivalnetwork

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dot com and get your free newsletter and gift. Financial

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Survival Network now more than.

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Speaker 3: Ever, And welcome. You are listening to and watching the

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Financial Survival Network. I'm your host, Carrie Lutz. Interesting person

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you're about to hear from. Interesting investment approach. I don't

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think you're going to find anything like it. Basically, what

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they're doing is taking small motels hotels across the country

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converting them to residential, affordable residential. When I think of

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affordable housing, this seems to be the way to go.

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It's a private approach, they're not taking government money to

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do it, and they can produce more units probably in

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a year.

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Speaker 4: Than many of the.

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Speaker 3: Housing authorities around the United States do in a decade.

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A name of the person that you're about to hear

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from is Ryan Sunday. Ryan, it's great to have you

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on the show. So affordable housing. All we hear about

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is that, you know, affordable housing, we don't have enough.

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Government's got to build.

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Speaker 1: More of it. But you seem to be offering a

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different approach. Yeah, that's exactly right. Thanks for having me,

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Kerry your intro on a spot on. We're shipping, you know,

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one hundred to two hundred units at a time of

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affordable housing, naturally affordable housing, and it only takes us

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about six to twelve months once we buy a property

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until we can start running it out to tenants so

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we can we can get units to market and address

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the need a lot faster than any ground up developer

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could or certainly you know, a government authority could.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so you've gone from eleven hundred units in twenty

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to eighteen hundred units last year. I assume the year

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that's pretty furious pace. I mean, just dividing by three,

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you do in two hundred thirty four units a year.

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I assume that pace is increasing. For twenty four it is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we're at about twenty five hundred units total. Now,

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you know, we've had some sales in the portfolio, but

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there's a lot of acquisition opportunities out there for us,

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and you know, you kind of couple the distress and

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hospitality with the insatiable demand for the affordable housing, and

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we feel like we're onto something. So we see no

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shortage of opportunities. And you know, our plan is to

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do about ten, ten to twelve projects per year so

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that we can execute on them pretty well.

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Speaker 3: Well, I've got a place that you should definitely buy.

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It's in Kassimi, Florida, right by Disney World. It's a

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welfare hotel and I'm sure the neighbors would welcome you

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taking it over. And it's got a pool, parking and

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I once had the misfortune of staying there when I

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fled from a hurricane, and there are guys with like

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prison tattoos there.

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Speaker 4: It was a scary place. Yeah. I hope the.

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Speaker 1: City of Kassimi can work with us on some of

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the change of use, permitting and zoning. We've had some

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challenges breaking into that market, but we know, well, we're

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trying to do some work down the street in Orlando,

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and that is one of the biggest challenges with these

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conversions because we're changing the use from a hospitality asset

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to a residential asset and we have to you know,

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the jurisdictions and the zoning and permitting folks have to

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basically let us do that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but so is that considered an up zone or

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a down zoned?

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Speaker 1: I would consider you know, we're moving it to its

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highest and best use, so I'd considered it an up zone.

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Usually we're not changing the underlyings zoning for the property itself,

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because most jurisdictions won't allow for what's called spot zoning.

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But we're going to the city and we're asking them

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to change the definition of the zone to allow for

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residential use or you know, there are other potential exception processes.

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In states like Washington where I live, where we're based

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as stage, they've actually legislated, effective June of twenty twenty five,

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that all commercial buildings can be zoned by right to

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so there isn't basically the local municipalities can't get in

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the way of it. And so it's a different approach

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than some other states. You know, some other states just

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roll out the red carpet to try to, you know,

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get us through. And then in some other states, you know,

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they've actually legislated to make these conversion projects a little

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bit easier.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they really should, because you know, if you watch

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an episode of Cops, you could definitely find a lot

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of prospective properties there because it seems like nothing good

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is happening in these rundown, low life motels and bad

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parts of town.

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Speaker 4: And all that. And here you.

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Speaker 3: Redo them, make them new, and you get like tax

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payers in there.

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Speaker 4: That's exactly right. You know.

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Speaker 1: We've had some good success with this, especially in the

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Hasmer district of Tacoma. We bought four properties on one

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street on Hosmer Street. Hasmer Street used to be responsible

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for ten percent of all the murders in the state

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of Washington, Hosmer is in Tacoma, which is just south

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of Seattle for those not from with the Northwest. And

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you know, since we've taken over these properties, we've eliminated

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violent crime. The police officers used to send three patrolmen

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for every call that was made from one of these properties.

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Now they only send one. So it's really it's a

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really unique opportunity where you know, we're kind of doing good,

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but it's also good business. Right. The underlying fundamentals of

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the investment are pretty sound as well.

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Speaker 3: So like in Florida, a lot of these older rundown motels,

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they just knocked them down and put up the high rise,

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you know.

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Speaker 4: So so I.

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Speaker 3: Guess that's kind of your competition, the people that want

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to come in and knock them down and put up

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a residential tower.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's fewer and fewer developers that are starting

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right now, I think hermits the difference between housing that's

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being created and housing that's being permitted has never been

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wider in history than it is right now. Just because

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inflation has been running rampant, the cost of labor materials

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is so high, the cost of debt is so high,

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a lot of ground up developers have just pulled out,

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and so we don't see a lot of competition with

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developers looking to buy these properties. We do see other

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hoteliers that might want to take them over and upgrade

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them and maybe you know, take them from a Hampton

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into a Mariad or you know, get them get them rebranded.

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But we typically find that are like, we're the best buyer.

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We're the best buyer for these assets, and the sellers

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want to work with us because we can pay a

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little bit more than that hotelier.

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Speaker 4: Is willing to.

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Speaker 1: Because hotels are worth three to five times the revenue

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that they generate, whereas an apartment building is worth seven

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to twelve times the revenue that it generates, and so

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you know, there's a bit of an arbitrage in there.

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Obviously there's a lot of hard work to capture their arbitrage,

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but it allows us to pay more than a hotel

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operator would.

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Speaker 4: Right, And so is there much competition for this out? There?

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Are there other companies.

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Speaker 1: Doing what you're doing less than ten I'd say they're

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doing it repeatedly. There have been some that have pulled out,

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some folks that unfortunately overpaid, and you know, we're kind

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of coming into to grab those assets at a discount.

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Speaker 5: As I say, there's.

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Speaker 1: Really probably three or four groups that I'm aware of,

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including ourselves, that are that are trying to do this repeatedly,

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you know, ad scale in multiple markets.

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Speaker 3: Interesting. Interesting, So how did you wind up getting into this?

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By the way, Brian, great question. My interest in real

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estate started at an early age growing up. My dad

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was a pilot but had a small portfolio of real

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estate in my hometown of Medford, New Jersey, and so

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I spent the weekend swinging hammers and installing, installing toilets

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and snaking.

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Speaker 5: Drains with him.

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Speaker 1: And you know, a nine to eleven hit, you know,

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he lost his pension and took a big pay cut,

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and you know, I saw the insurance policy and the

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stability that investing in real estate gave to my parents,

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and so I always knew I wanted that.

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Speaker 4: One day.

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Speaker 1: Fast forward, I went to college out on the West Coast,

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ended up having a corporate career in mergers and acquisitions,

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you know, helping big companies by smaller companies. Worked for

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Amazon and Samsung and Redfit and a few just just

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to name a few companies. But then start building my

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own portfolio on the weekends doing it and doing a

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similar thing where you know, I bought a six unit

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and renovated it, then an eight unit, then a sixteen,

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at a thirty eventually. Ask forward to twenty twenty and

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Sage Investment Group got started and that's where I'm now

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the CEO. I was still working in my corporate job

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at the time, but I decided to move my properties

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into Sage in exchange for shares of our fund and

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then just became a passive investor in real estate.

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Speaker 5: I decided to outsource the hard work.

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Speaker 1: You know, to the folks at Sage, and you know,

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I ended up joining the company full time as CEO

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mid last year, so in mid twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 4: Very cool story. So I never looked back.

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Speaker 3: I think you said there's seventy thousand of these like

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mom and pop motels around the country.

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Speaker 4: That's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in markets that we're interested in because we're looking

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for wage growth, population growth, and we're also looking for

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properties with about one hundred to two hundred units because

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we want enough where we get economies of scale on management.

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We can have an on site manager that you know,

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it's kind of governs the low end and then on

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the high end. We don't want to ship too many

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studio units in any one market. So you know, we

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don't want to take over four hundred unit property and

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ship four hundred units of studio housing because that would

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oversaturate the market.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: Are these units furnished r Typically not.

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Speaker 1: We only have one of our twenty four properties that

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is furnished. We're actually just starting to lease it now

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and where we're going to see how it goes. But

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typically unfurnished units, but they have full, full kitchens for folks. Yeah,

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So what's the biggest challenge you see in this market?

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Speaker 5: Say, there's probably three challenges.

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Speaker 1: The first is working with the local municipalities that you

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know need to basically approve our change of use of

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the buildings to give us the permits to you know,

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convert these properties. That takes a long time, on average,

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at least six months. And you know, some of those

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municipalities treat this differently, and you know, maybe they assess

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us impact fees because they think that we're going to

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use more city resources, whether that's water or sew or parks,

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and we have to work with them and educate them

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on you know, hey, these are only amenitized properties. You know,

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there aren't you know, families here, so we're not hurting

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the school system. And then we also have to work

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with them to figure out, you know what code they're

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going to hold us to, you know what code book

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they're going to hold us to. The energy codes are

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ever changing, and sometimes we get curveballs thrown at us,

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you know, on what requirements we're going to be held to.

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So I'd say that's kind of challenge number one. Challenge

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number two is just the development itself. It's certainly not

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easy to do the work that we do. We just

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started our nineteenth conversion project, so we certainly learned a

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lot along the way, both in the diligence period and

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also the process of you know, doing the renovation. And

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then the third is just you know, sources of capital.

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You know, we're always out there raising equity to fuel

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our growth, and then also you know, finding lenders to

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partner with to help you know, secure the properties as well.

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Speaker 3: Interesting, you would think that most municipalities would be looking

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to upgrade the quality of the properties. And thereby, because

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I assume that after you get done with your renta,

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your rehab, the realistic tax is going to go up

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a little bit, They go.

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Speaker 5: Up a lot of bit.

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Speaker 1: Now the city loses the hotel tax revenue, and so

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I haven't actually done the math recently, you know, on

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one of our projects to see what they net out

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to be.

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Speaker 5: But certainly, you know, we pay a.

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Speaker 1: Lot more in property taxes after the renovation, you know,

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because we see typically least a fifty percent increase in

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value over what we pay between the acquisition and the development,

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but it's usually at least double what the property was

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worth as a hotel.

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Speaker 3: Well, you'd think if a place is an in by

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ten out by two type of situations, thiseople are paying cash.

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I don't know that a lot of them don't even

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take credit cards. And nobody wants to leave a trail

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that they were actually in this place, so probably they're

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not getting their full full ride on the hotel. And

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you know resource tax that accounty like in Florida, it's

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like those are huge taxes to twenty percent many places. Interesting,

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interesting business model. Obviously you'll be busy with this for

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a long time to come, and we appreciate you coming

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out just to tell us. Anybody wants to connect with you,

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follow you how do you do that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you can go to Sageinvestment dot com. You can

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book a meeting with me there. You can also email

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me at Ryan at Sageinvestment dot group, where we've got

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a LinkedIn account. You can certainly follow us there as.

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Speaker 4: Well, excellently.

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Speaker 3: Well, there'll be a link in the show notes to

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this interview on Financial Survival Network dot com, so you

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just have to click it you find out at all

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about Ryan and Sage Investment Group and the fund. If

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you got a question for Ryan, shoot me an email

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kl Atcarrie Lutz dot com. And while you're at the site,

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please sign up for your free newsletter. Ryan, been a pleasure,

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Thanks for stopping by. Thanks so much for having me.

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Speaker 2: Erry, Thanks for listening to Carrie Lutz's Financial Survival Network,

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your solution to today's trying times. For the latest, go

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to Financial Survivalnetwork dot com. Financial Survival Network

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Speaker 4: Now more than ever,