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Speaker 1: The Thinking Atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol,

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an idea.

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Speaker 2: The population of atheists this country is going through.

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Speaker 1: The rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If

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I tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth,

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not because I put my hand on a book and

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made a wish and working together for a more rational world.

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Speaker 2: Take the risk of thinking. Feel so much more happiness. Truth,

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Usian wisdom will come to you that way.

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Speaker 1: Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the

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Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews.

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Speaker 2: So I took a road trip. I was doing a

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speaking a couple of speaking gigs. The word gig makes

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it sound like I'm a band, but I was doing

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an event at Metroplex Atheists in fort Worth and then

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Houston Oasis, and so I decided to drive and got

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up early Saturday morning about four point thirty, got myself together,

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pointed the car south and then I drove to fort Worth,

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spoke at an event midday, hopped in the car, drove

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to Houston, spoke at Houston Oasis Sunday morning, pointed north,

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drove all the way home. It was I mean, I

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was exhausted by the time I got back, but it

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was awesome. It was a lot of fun. But one

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thing about road trips is it gives me a chance

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to clear my head, to kind of get my thoughts together.

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So I'm sitting there in the car, cruising along seventy

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nine miles an hour in a seventy five zone. This

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is my sweet spot because in my brain I'm thinking, Okay,

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you can speed just a little bit. Like if a

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cop sees me go by it seventy nine, I'm not

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worth the trouble. I'm not the target. It's somebody cruising

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by it eighty five or ninety that's the target. So

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always feel kind of safe. Seventy nine miles an hour,

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and I'm watching the white line and I'm thinking, and

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I was just I mean, I found myself really really

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thinking about hypocrisy. Throughout our history. Hasn't it almost always

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been the moralizers who are the biggest hypocrites. I mean,

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the people who were thumping their chests and clutching their

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pearls and banging their bibles and decrying the injustice and

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immorality of it all. Isn't it almost always them that

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are the biggest hypocrites, okay, and I'm going to go

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someplace that you may not expect. I have said before,

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and I've been watching Elon Musk with increasing distaste. I

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think Tesla's are great cars. I like a lot of

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what SpaceX has been doing with NASA. I'm a fan

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of space exploration. I think the Mars mission, you know,

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colonizing Mars, that's a fantasy. That's a freaking waste. That's

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a billionaire in his sandbox, a big boy with expensive toys,

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total waste of resources. I think that's stupid. But a

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lot of the other stuff I kind of buy and

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I appreciate. And I used to really admire the billionaire

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back when I was a Fox News evangelical Christian capitalist.

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And I'm not opposed to capitalism as long as it's managed.

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But I mean, back in the day, I would look

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at the people sitting atop a mountain of money and go, yeah, yeah,

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that's the dream. They climbed to the top and they

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achieved the American dream. And today I just see something different.

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You know, aren't most, if not all, of those people hoarders,

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no matter how innovative they are, no matter how much

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they have invented and innovated, no matter how hard they

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have worked. And I'm not trying to diminish the innovators

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and risk takers and hard workers in this world. And

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I don't deny anybody the wealth that comes with success.

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Good for you. I am happy for you. That's the

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dream for all of us. Okay, But this idea that

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their wealth was totally made by one person, and no,

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it was made on the backs of others, the hard

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work of others, often the exploitation of others. And what's

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the average pay at Amazon? I think it's like between

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fifteen and fifty or sixty an hour, depending on your position. Fine,

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then CEO Jeff Bezos made two million dollars an hour. Okay,

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I'm not denying he should be well paid as the

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founder and CEO two million dollars every hour. When does

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that become obscene? When does it become obscene? He bought

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was it last year? The year before? A five hundred

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million dollars super yacht? I mean you talk about luxury,

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two hundred and fifty feet long, three outdoor decks. It

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had two swimming pools on the yacht, a movie theater,

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a bunch of meeting rooms. It had its own support boats,

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so wherever the yacht would go, there'd be another yacht

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behind it. And that second boat had a helipad, so

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that Jeff Bezos's Beyonce could land her helicopter on the

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boat number two, and then I guess get ferried over

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over to the big super yacht. It's got four jet skis.

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It can even lift a small submarine if Jeff decides

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he wants to buy one. And the price of this

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one boat, the one super yacht could build if you

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called it one hundred grand for a house. So now

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it's not a luxury house. And I know the housing

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prizes are sky high, but let's call it one hundred

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grand for a house. Okay, you could build like five thousand,

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one hundred thousand dollars homes. With that money. You could

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feed almost thirty thousand families of five for an entire year.

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With that money, Jeff Bezos could install fifty thousand fresh

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water wells in underdeveloped countries all around the world, places

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that have contaminated drinking water that carry toxins and disease.

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I mean, it's amazing. Maybe hundreds of millions of people

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no longer getting sick from the water that they are

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forced to drink. He could buy name brand shoes. I mean,

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I know many of them getting to the hundreds of dollars.

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But let's say you found a ninety nine dollars pair

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of Nike or Adidas or whatever. He could buy five

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million pairs of shoes for people around the world who

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don't have shoes and are forced to go barefoot. They

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can't even afford sandals. And those people exist, right. This

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is insulin for diabetes, it is cancer research. It's rebuilding

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neighborhoods that are locked into poverty. That's what one boat,

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one toy from a billionaire might be able to accomplish.

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But no, Jeff needs a couple of swimming pools on

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top of a luxury yacht that can only accommodate eighteen guests.

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And you know his guests are also probably be dirty, rotten, filthy, stinking,

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rich and removed from the everyday problems of this world.

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So here I am, and I'm watching Christians all around me,

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people who supposedly follow the best teachings of Jesus Christ.

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One Timothy six ' ten says the love of money

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is the root of all evil. Matthew six twenty four.

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You can't serve God and money. The same chapter in

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Matthew says not to store up treasures on earth, but

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in heaven Ecclesiastes five to ten. Those who love money

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practice vanity, and vanity is the sin. Proverb sixteen. Wisdom

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is better than gold Hebrews thirteen five. Keep your life

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free from love of money, and be content with what

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you have. Matthew nineteen. The rich man walked up to Jesus,

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remember the story. He walks up and he says, Teacher,

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what must I do to get eternal life? And among

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the many commands that Christ gave him, he told the

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rich guy, go and sell your possessions and give to

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the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. And

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then come follow me. And Christians read those and they

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hear these verses at Sunday church and they get all

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misty eyed. Yes, yes, the love of money is the

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root of all evil. And then these same Jesus followers

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look up and there's dude stashing away and wasting away

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more money than they would see in a thousand lifetimes,

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living like a king, while people are starving and suffering

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all over the planet. And they're like yeah. Yeah, that's

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the goal, man, that's what we want, that's the dream.

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That's the American way. Explain this to me. There's a

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meme floating around and it articulates the problem like this.

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It said, if a monkey hoarded more bananas than it

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could possibly eat, while most of the other monkeys starved,

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scientists would be studying the one monkey to find out

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what was wrong with it. And yet when humans do this,

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we put their faces on the cover of Forbes magazine,

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celebrity bling jewelry, you know, the stuff you see on

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the E Network and Access Hollywood, et cetera. People giving

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out engagement in wedding rings.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: I mean not that we shouldn't want value or seek value,

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but we all know that the diamond industry is bullshit,

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you know, the de Beers Company, all of it. This

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is all perception. We know that these rocks and their

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rocks are not worth nearly what they are priced. They're

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simply selling us the notion, the perception of value. We

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talked about this on a show maybe ten years ago,

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and we got into the wedding industry and how it

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has really branded itself onto I know, especially the American psyche,

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and it may not be as true in this audience,

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but in the world in general. Let's say you proposed

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to someone and you give them a ring. If that

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ring is worth three thousand dollars, five thousand dollars or more,

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there is I don't know, there's a sense of worth,

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personal worth that gets attached to that. Now they sacrificed.

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What was the commercial that said, isn't this worth one

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month's salary, you know, to demonstrate your love? I can't

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remember the jeweler company, but it was like something about

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one month's salary. It's totally worth it. Right now, If

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this same person was to propose and they gave their

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fiance or you know who they wanted to be their fiance,

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say a ring that was worth three hundred bucks, the

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recipient might be insulted. What the hell would you go

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to big lots? Did you find this in a pawn shop?

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Did you pick it up off the ground? Did you

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see it in the street? Did you steal it? Don't

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you love me? Don't you care? Am I not worth

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more than three hundred dollars?

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Speaker 4: Do you?

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Speaker 2: I mean, we see this, We see this kind of

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perception of value branded onto our brains. So then you

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see the celebrities, and I'm just going through because and

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they usually focus on the women, because that's how these

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entertainment shows work. So I was looking and most of

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the names I saw were females. But I mean, they're

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both guilty of blaing. Kanye West, don't even get me started, right,

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but Kim Kardashian's ring four million, Mariah Carey's ring ten million,

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the ring that was once worn by Jackie Oh. Those

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diamonds are worth twenty two million dollars. It's a freaking rock.

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It's a rock, one little rock you stick on your finger,

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twenty two million dollars. You could buy a closet full

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of clothes for one hundred and fifty thousand people who

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can't even afford a shirt on their back. You could,

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fully you could fill a closet, a relatively moderate closet,

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for one hundred and fifty thousand people suffering, needy people

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in this world. Or you can wear a rock, and

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you can if you want it. You can go out

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and you could find a fake or something that wasn't

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quite as quote unquote rare, that didn't cost nearly as much.

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Get the same look, you get the same bling, but

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there's something else going on, and we look at that waste.

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And I've seen this in the church. I certainly see

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it among evangelical conservatives, where they see this and they're

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like value value. Let's say that a parent is raising

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a child, son or daughter. I'll go with Sun in

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this example, all right, the Sun goes to elementary school

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and grabs almost all the cafeteria food while his fellow

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students go hungry for the rest of the day. A

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parent would be outraged by that. He gets a job,

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but he demands that he gets most of the wages

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while everybody else gets paid very little. He becomes the

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hoa director for his neighborhood, and yet instead of doing

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improvements for them, he hoards most of the money for himself.

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He lives in a village. He diverts the stream so

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that he gets almost all the water and everybody else

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pretty much gets nothing. He powers his mansion. The others

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do not get electricity and must live in the dark.

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I mean you do something like you put those scenarios

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out and say, Mom, Dad, I did this. The parents

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would be horrified. You failed as a child, We failed

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as a parent. This is not how we raised you.

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You're supposed to be a person of honor, decency, and empathy,

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sharing things right, sharing things, help out your fellow man

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and woman. Now, these same people who would be horrified

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at their children being hoarders look up and they see

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Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, the Koch Brothers, whoever, billionaires,

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and they're like, yeah, kids, that's the target right there. Yeah,

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that's the target. That's success, that's the dream. The hypocrisy

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is unreal. And I'll take this a step further. Since

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we're talking about hypocrisy, how do parents train their kids

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to treat people right? Tell the truth. If you give

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your word, keep your word, Be a hard worker, have

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a good work ethic, be diligent, Be a friend to

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those who don't have friends. If you're on the playground,

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don't be a bully. Stand up against the bullies and

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stand for the oppressed. Heal people, don't hurt them. Be

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of good character and surround yourself with people who are

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of good character. And if you succeed, and when you succeed,

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surround yourself with people that you can also help succeed.

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Be the rising tide that raises all the ships. This

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is the kind of stuff that parents rightly teach children,

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and then these same parents support and enable and even

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worship the most cruel and abusive people in the world.

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What is maga if not a cult of cruelty? Watch

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any Donald Trump's speech and listen to the chanting of

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the crowds. Listen to the tone, read the signs that

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they carry in the marches and the rallies, nastiness, bullying.

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Watched them cheer the man whose family used to deny

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housing two black people who lawyered passed having to pay

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his own vendors. Right, he made a business deal, and

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then he just decided not to pay because he could

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imagine you and I doing that in full view of

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family and friends. They think we were a piece of shit.

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The man who's hot for his own daughter, he's hot

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for his daughter. I mean, it's creepy. Our loved ones

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would be horrified if we were that way. Hey, mom, dad, family, friends. Today,

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I kind of gave myself permission to just waltz into

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the dressing room of a teen USA pageant so I

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could get a look at the hot young girls. Oh man,

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I mean it was awesome, and they let me do

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it because of who I am. I'm a convicted sex offender. Everybody.

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Can you imagine the embarrassment and shame they would feel.

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I faked out my investors. I built fake universities. I

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stole from a children's charity. I told my followers they

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should be bullies, people of revenge. I mocked disabled people. Today,

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I blatantly tell everyone within earshot that I'm the most

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important person. In fact, I am far above them all.

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I have never seen hypocrisy at this level. I've never

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seen anything like it. Imagine a teenage boy going home

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and telling his mother, you know, Mom, today I grabbed

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a girl by the pussy and they let me do it.

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Because I'm me. They let me do it. I moved

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on her like a bitch. Everybody within earshot would be

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horrified and devastated. They would launch into immediate condemnation and intervention.

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Donald Trump says it, and there are some mothers attending

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Trump rallies wearing t shirts that say Trump can grab

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my pussy. I cannot believe it. Back before the election,

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Donald Trump said he could go out on Fifth Avenue

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shoot another human being and he wouldn't lose any votes.

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And he was absolutely right. I say you know what,

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I could go out and murder somebody and I'd be

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just as popular. How fucked up would that be to

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the people we said it to in our lives? But

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when Trump does it, it's strength. Yeah, yeah, you know what.

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That's power, that's influence. That's somebody who can make up

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his his own rules, beholden to no one. That's the dream.

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Why would hoarding and lording and cruelty be terrible and

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then suddenly be awesome? Is it all about money and power?

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Is it all transactional? You know, you got to break

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some eggs if you want to make an omelet. And

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as long as it's the other person who's exploited and

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not us, I mean, what do we care? You know,

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if they're that week, if they're exploitable, you know, I mean,

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maybe this is like a Darwinian thing, survival of the fittest.

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Maybe it's a chance to weed out the undesirables. So yeah,

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go ahead and exploit them. Ah whatever, as long as

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it doesn't negatively impact me. What the hell kind of

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talk is that? It's like that old question. I don't

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know if you've heard this one, but someone goes up

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to a married person that say, hey, could I get

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you to cheat on your spouse for a million dollars?

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And the person says million bucks. Hell you, I'd shoe

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it on my spouse for a million? Okay, Well would

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you do it for one dollar? And the person gets

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indignant and says a dollar What kind of person do

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you think I am? And the questioner says, we already

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know what kind of person you are right now, we're

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just haggling over the price. At what point does morality

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get bought? Does a dollar figure change what is right

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and what is wrong? And we live in a country

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that worships celebrity and money. We love it celebrity and money.

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The dumber it is, the better it is, the more

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we lap it up. And I suspect that there's a

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whole culture of people that thinks it's just fine to

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destroy anything and everything standing between you and the pot

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of gold. In the case of Maga, totally unaware. These

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people are totally unaware that Donald Trump, the man they worship,

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holds them in contempt. You think Donald Trump would give

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Magas the time of day in real life. You think

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he'd have them over for dinner. You think he would

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speak to him in any sort of relevant personal way.

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Are they going to come over and be wined and

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dined at marl Lago and join them for a round

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of golf? Blah blahh. Of course not. These people would

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never be accepted in the land of Trump. They would

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never be given the keys to the big skyscraper with

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the golden toilet in the bathroom. They are just resources

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to be exploited by the hoarder. They are grist for

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the mill. The oligarchs are crushing them on their own

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climb to the top, and those being crushed you're like,

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thank you very much. That's the dream. One day we

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like to not be the crushy. We want to be

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the crusher. Unbelievable hypocrisy. I'm just struck by it. I've

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been using this conversation in my own life, this tactic

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if someone talks about the I don't mean to be crass,

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but I'm going back to the grab them by the

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pussy line, because it's probably the most famous and was

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pre election, so everybody knew what it was and knew

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who he was, and they voted for him anyway. Right

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The evangelicals said, ah, yeah, that's cool, no problem, it's

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locker room talk. Nobody's perfect. I elected a president, not

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a pastor. They've got a whole laundry list of excuses

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for why they can enable this predator. But I'd like

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to attach a proper name to it. What if it

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was your daughter that he grabbed? What if it was

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your mother or your sister? What if it was your

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wife that he grabbed? How quickly would you check that box?

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And it always gives people pause, It always stops them

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in their tracks, and they get uncomfortable, and sometimes the

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conversations have gotten uncomfortable and ended rather abruptly. But I

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know I gave him something to think about, because then

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it becomes real. Right, then it becomes real. What if

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the person he moved on like a bitch was your wife?

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And I think that's a very effective way to bring

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this home because otherwise they're just allowing it, enabling it,

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or they're wearing the T shirts that celebrate it. I

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just can't believe it. In this world where there are

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so many resources, what if the hoarders and the abusers,

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what if they committed all that energy to bettering the

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world around them, to lifting up instead of tearing down.

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I know it sounds like a John Lennon song. But

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why not? It's a beautiful song. This is the kind

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of thing I was thinking about recently, and I thought

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maybe you might be thinking the same things as well.

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I am interested in what you're thinking about this or

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whatever else is on your mind. Let me take a

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short break. We'll take your calls after this. Are you

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00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:23,000
a fan of true stories, interesting history, celebrity trivia, true crime,

367
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,960
weird news? And you're gonna love my podcast True Stories

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00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,440
with Seth Andrews And I'm your host, Seth Andrews, releasing

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00:25:32,559 --> 00:25:37,039
five minute podcast vignettes three times a week. Search True

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00:25:37,079 --> 00:25:41,519
Stories with Seth Andrews on Speaker and all major podcast apps,

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00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:53,319
or visit the website True Stories podcast dot com. Today

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00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,200
we're talking about the hoarding of resources on a planet

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where we should have enough for everybody, but somehow don't. Anyway,

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that's been my rant, But I'm going to the phones

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now to find out what you would like to rant about.

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I've got David at three three zero. David, Are you there?

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00:26:13,839 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 4: Hi?

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Speaker 5: Can you hear me?

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Speaker 6: Yes?

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00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:17,319
Speaker 2: I can? Indeed, what's on your mind?

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Speaker 5: Well, everything you've talked about so far in your introduction

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is something that has passed through my mind at some

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time in the past several years. Thank you very much

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for voicing it. I was thinking because I dialed in

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right at the beginning of something a bit topical is

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the recent news of Biden passing the torch to Kamala Harris.

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And he was one of the last people on my list,

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behind Pete Bootage Edge and Bernie Sanders. But he's done

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00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,559
a fantastic job. I thought he would be maybe a

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00:26:51,599 --> 00:26:55,480
good custodian, but he's really become one of our probably

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most respectable presidents. But one of the jobs I always

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thought he I need to do is to pass the

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torch to the next generation. And I think he's finally

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done that. And now we've got a prosecutor who is

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going up against a convicted selling And I don't mean

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it necessarily changed the topic, but that was what was

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on my mind.

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Speaker 2: No, I think it's totally valid. You bring up Joe

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00:27:19,599 --> 00:27:23,079
Biden and people want it to be binary, right, He's

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00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,319
either the greatest or the worst. And I just think

401
00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:29,240
that's not how life is, it's not how politics is.

402
00:27:29,279 --> 00:27:32,720
It's just not how this whole thing works. I'm frustrated

403
00:27:32,759 --> 00:27:36,519
with how he has handled Israel. Palestine. I have been

404
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,920
in the past frustrated with his religiosity and the National

405
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,359
Prayer breakfast and some of that language. But I'll tell

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00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,279
you a time and again, whenever he has made a

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public statement, it has been one of inclusion. He's been

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the person who has said you are valid and you

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should be equal. He has stood up for LGBT people.

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He stood up for the rights of women. And whenever

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Donald Trump gets shot in the ear, Joe Biden calls

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00:28:03,839 --> 00:28:07,240
Donald Trump and says, I'm glad you're okay, right, I'm

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glad you survived. I'm glad the assassin wasn't successful. Well,

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that's a character thing. I mean, that is something that

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Donald Trump would have never done in reverse, and I

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agree this is not even remotely equivalent, especially when after

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that phone called Donald Trump glibly truth social a photograph

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of Biden tripping down the stairs to make fun of him.

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This man has no idea what compassion looks like. And

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I'm convinced Biden is a man of values. Is a

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perfect no. But I have been impressed with him. I

422
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have also been monumentally frustrated with him as a candidate.

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I do find myself saying, is this the best we have,

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and so whenever he decided to step down, I was

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relieved and I would definitely Takeamala Harris. She's tough, she's smart, refreshingly,

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she's not an old white guy in the long history

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of this country, never having not once a female president,

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and just shows you how much catching up we have

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to do. And it wouldn't be a token president. If

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anybody's qualified, I think Kamala Harris is, so I'm actually

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excited to see if she's going to officially be the nominee.

432
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I don't know what to look like whenever this show

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airs in a few days, but I myself, I think

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00:29:31,079 --> 00:29:34,599
it's a step forward and I think she would destroy

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00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,200
Donald Trump in terms of credibility and delivery in a

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one on one exchange.

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Speaker 5: Thanks a lot for your comments. It's nice to have

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00:29:43,839 --> 00:29:47,759
somebody who has a voice and the attention of others

439
00:29:47,799 --> 00:29:50,400
to make the comments. So thank you, Seth. It's been

440
00:29:50,559 --> 00:29:53,000
a pleasure to talk to you. I've been watching you

441
00:29:53,079 --> 00:29:57,119
for quite a while. I've been a converted atheist for

442
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,920
about fair thirty years now my sixties, and I've followed

443
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,559
your story and I hope you get to do this again.

444
00:30:05,599 --> 00:30:07,759
Sometimes It's the first time I've gotten in touch with you,

445
00:30:07,799 --> 00:30:10,920
but thanks for the topical conversation. It's been a lot

446
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,440
of fun and wishing you the best for the rest

447
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:13,960
of your show.

448
00:30:14,119 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 2: You very kind. Thanks for coming. We'll see you later, David,

449
00:30:16,519 --> 00:30:19,759
see you later. Hell, Joe Biden could have stayed in

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00:30:19,799 --> 00:30:24,720
the race, been on life support and I still would

451
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,880
have voted for him because I'm voting for a platform,

452
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and I'm voting to stop Trump cult before it completely

453
00:30:33,799 --> 00:30:38,519
destroys the country I live in. I've got Jared two

454
00:30:38,559 --> 00:30:42,200
six ' nine. Are you there? Hey, Seph, thanks for calling.

455
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What's on your mind?

456
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Speaker 7: Beig fan and a patron.

457
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Speaker 2: Very kind.

458
00:30:46,079 --> 00:30:49,759
Speaker 7: Yeah, I wanted to talk about hippie Christians with you,

459
00:30:49,839 --> 00:30:55,160
but a couple thoughts. If Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos

460
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,880
paid their Texas and maybe America could afford a penis

461
00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:58,880
shape rocket you know.

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00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 2: You know what, though, I had this conversation with the believer.

463
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I don't mean to hijack you, but you brought something

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00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:07,799
up and I'm sitting on the edge of my chair. Okay,

465
00:31:08,279 --> 00:31:11,759
I brought this up with another evangelical and I said,

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these people are able to use their power to avoid

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social responsibility.

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Speaker 7: But the thing is they're profiting off of things the

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00:31:21,599 --> 00:31:26,640
government provides, a stable workforce, a legal framework, like all

470
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,920
this stuff, and if they don't pay into the system,

471
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,960
they're just robbing us. I mean, we know what's wrong

472
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,799
on the right, and you know, beat that horse, but

473
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:36,880
I feel it's important to call it up people on

474
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,440
our own side. And I realized that I call them

475
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,160
hippie Christians, the kind of Christians who ignore ninety nine

476
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,759
percent of the Bible and say love of Jesus. And

477
00:31:46,799 --> 00:31:49,319
I realized most of them are our allies. You know,

478
00:31:49,359 --> 00:31:52,440
they're for the most part, for secular government, which is

479
00:31:52,519 --> 00:31:55,720
where we need to be. But you see them doing

480
00:31:55,759 --> 00:32:00,000
the no Scotsman's fallacy. They point at the evangelical they said, oh,

481
00:32:00,039 --> 00:32:03,079
they're not real Christians. Well, I don't know how you

482
00:32:03,119 --> 00:32:05,720
define a Christian, but I guess one metric would be

483
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,519
how much of the Bible you ignore? So by that metric,

484
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,400
these hippie Christians aren't Christians at all. They ignore ninety

485
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:15,799
nine percent of that book. I got to tell you,

486
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:20,480
I see the maga type Christians as being Christians because

487
00:32:20,519 --> 00:32:25,759
they actually believe those things the Bible says, like persecuting gays,

488
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:30,119
stony adulters, things like that. So I don't know what

489
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:30,759
you think of that.

490
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 2: I'm of two minds. I go back and forth, and

491
00:32:33,279 --> 00:32:35,400
I think both positions are valid. I'm not trying to

492
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,240
be a politician on this, but on one side, I'm

493
00:32:38,599 --> 00:32:42,039
thankful for the moderate. I would take a wishy, washy

494
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:47,400
moderate Christian any day over the hateful, bigoted, fundie Bible literalist. Right.

495
00:32:47,559 --> 00:32:51,039
I'll take the happy, clappy Jesus loves everybody. I'll take

496
00:32:51,079 --> 00:32:53,960
that if you give me a choice. But those people

497
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:58,680
are giving cover to a dogma that is false and

498
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:03,000
destructive by saying, well, true Christianity is all loving and

499
00:33:03,039 --> 00:33:05,039
it's all this and it's all that. Well, I'm like, well,

500
00:33:05,039 --> 00:33:09,359
you haven't read your Bible, and by protecting the Christian

501
00:33:09,519 --> 00:33:12,880
brand in this way, you're giving cover to people who

502
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:14,599
are doing real harm.

503
00:33:15,359 --> 00:33:18,599
Speaker 7: Well, my bigger frustration is with the political discourse right,

504
00:33:19,079 --> 00:33:21,000
because if we're going to argue about which flavor of

505
00:33:21,079 --> 00:33:24,279
Jesus we want in charge, we're not actually debating the policy.

506
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,920
I remember, back when they were jailing children and family

507
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:32,119
separation at the border, they quoted Romans whatever on the right,

508
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,720
but then people on the left are like, oh, that's

509
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,119
not what my Jesus would do. Okay, can we stop

510
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,720
discussing which flavor of Jesus we want here and talk

511
00:33:39,759 --> 00:33:42,640
about the actual issues. That's my problem with those kind

512
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:47,839
of Christians. They're legitimizing that form of debate. So I

513
00:33:47,839 --> 00:33:49,200
guess that's my big beef.

514
00:33:49,079 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 2: With it, and it's a legitimate one, Jared, and I

515
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,119
appreciate you bringing it to the table. Hey, thanks roy DUSA,

516
00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:01,920
thanks for colling. Gotu later, Laura at six six what's

517
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:02,480
on your mind?

518
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:08,559
Speaker 3: Honestly, I've been having really bad anxiety in thinking it's life,

519
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,960
and then I had this total tiffany while I was waiting, like, no,

520
00:34:12,559 --> 00:34:16,000
this is completely because Trump and Naga like I as

521
00:34:16,039 --> 00:34:19,960
somebody who feels like she is an impact just some

522
00:34:20,079 --> 00:34:22,639
stuff I've done, and I feel like since I have

523
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,960
deconstructed from Christianity, I am the most Christian I've ever been,

524
00:34:27,519 --> 00:34:31,360
and so I can feel the turmoil in the country,

525
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,199
in the world. It's hard because I my job, I

526
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,280
work with kids with special needs. I feel more like

527
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,159
when I started working with kids with special needs, everybody

528
00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:45,880
I worked with was an atheist, a non Christian, that

529
00:34:46,119 --> 00:34:50,880
was had nothing to do with how I was giving

530
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,239
back and the people that were leading it, how there

531
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,280
was no mention of God Christianity. And I actually used

532
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,639
that time because that was the first year of Trump's presidency,

533
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,639
because my anxiety had thyrocketed when the man that said

534
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,800
grabbed a woman by its pussy was running the country,

535
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,079
and the Republicans in my life were trying to tell

536
00:35:11,119 --> 00:35:14,519
me that this man who said that was chosen by God.

537
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,320
At the same time, I learned at that moment what truly,

538
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,599
if there was a God or Jesus or whatever, what

539
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,119
it felt to give back and to move forward, and

540
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,960
it truly feel wonderful and the blessing to see lives change.

541
00:35:28,639 --> 00:35:33,239
And how I have this juxtaposition of losing faith but

542
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:37,159
gaining faith in humanity because I actually consider myself a

543
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,239
humanist because that's the way I feel like I feel.

544
00:35:40,559 --> 00:35:43,840
I love everybody. We are one huge family. It does

545
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,440
sound hippity dippity, and you say about John, you know Lennon,

546
00:35:47,559 --> 00:35:51,480
Actually Yoko wrote those words actually for Imagine, but that's

547
00:35:51,559 --> 00:35:55,360
truly his. The hippany is like what true geath and

548
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,719
love and everything? And what is the song called Imagine? Imagine, Yes,

549
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,079
it would be an amazing place.

550
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,519
Speaker 2: I think anxiety. I think fear for the future, wondering

551
00:36:06,599 --> 00:36:08,480
how bad it's going to get, because every time we

552
00:36:08,519 --> 00:36:11,880
think we've hit bottom, there's a new bottom. I think worrying,

553
00:36:12,079 --> 00:36:14,880
you know, about the safety in every way of ourselves

554
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,199
and our fellow human beings. I don't think that's hyperbole.

555
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,360
I think it's warranted, and I think it means you

556
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,559
are a moral person who wants morality to win the day.

557
00:36:23,039 --> 00:36:25,039
So just know you're not alone.

558
00:36:25,039 --> 00:36:28,159
Speaker 3: Laura, Thank you, And I love hearing other people with

559
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,800
the same I don't feel as alone, so that's why

560
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,119
I'm very glad that I always do Oh trust me

561
00:36:33,679 --> 00:36:35,679
and try to participate in this conversation.

562
00:36:36,039 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 2: I have been speaking out on the road and we'll

563
00:36:38,559 --> 00:36:41,679
sometimes do some Q and A after my presentation, and

564
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,280
this kind of thing inevitably comes up, and everybody's articulating

565
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,679
how jacked up this country is and how scared they

566
00:36:49,679 --> 00:36:51,880
are for the future, and how did we get here,

567
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,000
and what does it mean and what's going to happen.

568
00:36:54,079 --> 00:36:57,599
You are not alone, so just remember that, but also

569
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,880
remember the good because there are many good people fighting

570
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:01,840
that fight with you.

571
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 6: Okay, thank you.

572
00:37:03,599 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 3: Have a great rest of today.

573
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 2: Thanks Laura Catu. Later the lyrics to imagine, I pulled

574
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,480
up to imagine there's no heaven. It's easy if you try.

575
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:18,880
No hell below us, above us, only sky. Imagine all

576
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:23,760
the people living for today. Imagine there's no countries. It

577
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,320
isn't hard to do, nothing to kill or die for,

578
00:37:27,519 --> 00:37:32,360
and no religion too. Imagine all the people live in

579
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,360
life and peace. You may say I'm a dreamer, but

580
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,920
I'm not the only one. I hope someday you'll join

581
00:37:39,039 --> 00:37:44,519
us and the world will be as one. Imagine no possessions.

582
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:48,960
I wonder if you can no need for greed or hunger.

583
00:37:49,199 --> 00:37:54,119
A brotherhood of man. Imagine all the people sharing all

584
00:37:54,559 --> 00:37:57,840
the world. You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm

585
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,760
not the only one. I hope you'll join us and

586
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:08,239
the world will live as one. Becky at nine to

587
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,719
eight zero, Thanks for waiting. Are you there?

588
00:38:11,199 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm here.

589
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 2: Appreciate your calling. I'm doing well, but on your mind.

590
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,559
Speaker 4: I didn't have a question for you, but first I

591
00:38:17,639 --> 00:38:20,719
want to address what young lady that you just spoke with.

592
00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:24,559
I feel it, I mean absolutely, the anxiety has been weird.

593
00:38:24,599 --> 00:38:27,159
I mean I've been knowing this was coming down the

594
00:38:27,199 --> 00:38:31,760
pipe since twenty fifteen. The way I've handled my anxiety

595
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:36,400
was that in November twenty sixteen, I started smoking marijuana again.

596
00:38:37,159 --> 00:38:39,719
Hadn't spoken in thirty years. I've been hitting that pipe

597
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:43,519
hard for eight years now. My question, though, to you,

598
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,679
is you can't be a hardcore thinking atheist all the time.

599
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:52,039
Set now when you're relaxing, when sometimes you need to

600
00:38:52,119 --> 00:38:54,559
go a little place somewhere else just to feel better

601
00:38:54,599 --> 00:38:58,679
about the future and our place in this planet, on

602
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:00,199
this planet, our eight.

603
00:39:01,199 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 2: The thinking atheist obviously is an aspiration, it's an icon.

604
00:39:04,599 --> 00:39:06,679
It's not a person. I'm not a great thinker. You

605
00:39:06,679 --> 00:39:11,119
know I'm pretty slow. You know I am not a

606
00:39:11,159 --> 00:39:14,119
great mind. No, this is not false modesty. Trust me.

607
00:39:14,199 --> 00:39:17,239
I've shared this show with guests who are really, really,

608
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,199
really smart. I'm the guy that took thirty years to

609
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,320
figure out that men could not live to be a

610
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,760
thousand years old. So this is an honest statement. I

611
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,960
don't know. I'm interested in mindfulness. That's mostly what I've

612
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,599
been focused on in the past few years. If I

613
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,840
was any religion right now, I would probably be a Buddhist,

614
00:39:38,039 --> 00:39:42,599
like a secular Buddhist the idea of mindfulness, trying to

615
00:39:42,639 --> 00:39:47,440
center yourself away from anxiety, being in the moment, meditation,

616
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,800
clearing all of that stuff outs as a force of will,

617
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,719
you know, creating an atmosphere where you can focus on

618
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,719
your breathing and sort of lock out the rest of

619
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,880
the world. Natalie and I started to do yoga a

620
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,920
few months ago, and there's some of that woven in there.

621
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:10,519
It's not like wacky Maharishi light crystals and incense yoga.

622
00:40:10,679 --> 00:40:17,039
It's more about reward yourself, protect yourself, be mindful, and

623
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,159
be thankful. There's a lot of that kind of language.

624
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,559
That's the place I go, Oh, absolutely.

625
00:40:24,079 --> 00:40:27,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, I'll tell you a question.

626
00:40:28,639 --> 00:40:34,039
Speaker 2: Oh you're good, thanks, appreciate you, see you later. I

627
00:40:34,039 --> 00:40:36,639
don't know now that I think about it, like how

628
00:40:36,639 --> 00:40:40,119
do I center myself? Where do I go? Where do

629
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,920
I retreat? Exercise has been good for me. I go

630
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:45,960
out and play tennis in the sun. It's good to

631
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:50,519
get outdoors, sweat it out, expend some energy, you know,

632
00:40:50,679 --> 00:40:54,119
blow off some steam. That's been good. I'm a big

633
00:40:54,199 --> 00:40:56,880
movie buff. I'll tell you if I really if I

634
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:02,239
feel kind of stuck, like emotionally creatively. Oh my gosh,

635
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,599
this sounds so cornball, but I like to get in

636
00:41:05,639 --> 00:41:09,239
a car, usually when it's dark out, and I drive

637
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:17,559
listening to film music, instrumental movie scores, stuff like The

638
00:41:17,679 --> 00:41:22,880
Village Soundtrack by James Newton Howard always transports me into

639
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:27,679
kind of a zen place just I don't know, it

640
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,119
just feeds me in some way. Or maybe if I'm

641
00:41:30,159 --> 00:41:34,800
feeling a little more aggressive, I put in tron Legacy

642
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,400
by Daft Punk. I mean, it could be almost anything

643
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,440
but music. We all know, music that transports us and

644
00:41:40,519 --> 00:41:43,239
sort of sweeps us up and takes us on a journey. Well,

645
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,679
now I'm no longer being pounded over the head by

646
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,199
the worst of what's going on in the headlines. Now

647
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:53,159
I'm able to just breathe and chill and center and

648
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:58,039
imagine and create. And That's been good medicine for me.

649
00:41:58,559 --> 00:42:00,880
Time with Natalie and the dog. You know, I don't know.

650
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,480
I mean, I think we all have our our safe places,

651
00:42:04,519 --> 00:42:08,079
our havens that allow us to plug in and recharge

652
00:42:08,119 --> 00:42:13,039
the battery. Rich from Rochester at five eight five.

653
00:42:13,119 --> 00:42:15,679
Speaker 6: Are you there, Yes, Sam, sir? How you doing?

654
00:42:16,199 --> 00:42:17,639
Speaker 2: I'm doing well? What's on your mind?

655
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:23,199
Speaker 6: Rich here in notister Tom Gallasano. He built an empire

656
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,079
on it's called paychecks. They do everybody's hr their taxes,

657
00:42:27,119 --> 00:42:30,119
and they do their their finances and do their payroll.

658
00:42:30,199 --> 00:42:33,039
That's especially payroll is the big thing. And he, you know,

659
00:42:33,159 --> 00:42:36,000
he's this hero around the town and he'll get on

660
00:42:36,159 --> 00:42:38,960
he gets on the public radio Clay and he talks

661
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,519
about how hard he works when he was younger and

662
00:42:41,559 --> 00:42:43,320
all that. But he had all these friends and bankers

663
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:45,960
who helped him. And when I call him being a

664
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,320
black man, I say to him, so what about you

665
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:50,559
know what happened to black people?

666
00:42:50,639 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 4: Oh?

667
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 6: I don't believe that they you know, they could have

668
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:54,880
worked hard like me. And I said to him, you know,

669
00:42:55,039 --> 00:42:58,000
but you just said because of the friends you had

670
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,199
and the connections you had, you were able to get

671
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,280
to support. But that's not the worst thing about this man.

672
00:43:04,599 --> 00:43:08,679
This man moves to Cannondego, actually in the same area

673
00:43:08,679 --> 00:43:11,480
the finger like so you were. He moves to Cannondega,

674
00:43:12,199 --> 00:43:17,480
Buise's biggest state, beautiful acres of lawn. This asshole who

675
00:43:17,559 --> 00:43:20,159
was worth ten billion dollars, he's probably worth one hundred

676
00:43:20,199 --> 00:43:23,840
times the amount that entire town is Mith. He sues

677
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,280
the town because the geese are shitting on his lawn

678
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,320
and they won't and the town won't take the geese

679
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,679
off his lawn. Yet they make him a hero because

680
00:43:32,679 --> 00:43:36,280
he puts his name on hospitals and you know, children's wards,

681
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,159
and he puts his names on the School of Business

682
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:44,480
in rit Rochester, Institute of Technology or whatever school he puts.

683
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:49,440
So he's this fucking hero, and I think he is ghastly.

684
00:43:49,559 --> 00:43:51,199
I think he's the most one of the most immoral

685
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:56,599
people around. Can you imagine with his resources, suing this

686
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,159
town because the geese are shitting on his lawn.

687
00:44:00,079 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 2: On I think these people become detached from the real world.

688
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,519
Speaker 6: When you are worth that much money, the amount of

689
00:44:08,679 --> 00:44:11,519
revenue and resources you take out of a society and

690
00:44:11,559 --> 00:44:15,440
an economy and see fit it's stagnant in your stocks

691
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,760
or whatever it is. But they are doing nothing. So

692
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,559
the old days, where a guy like that or someone

693
00:44:21,599 --> 00:44:23,440
like that had that amount of money, if they kept

694
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:27,480
this stash it was taxed at eighty percent, it would

695
00:44:27,559 --> 00:44:32,360
force them to invest it in the society. So therefore

696
00:44:32,559 --> 00:44:35,840
it makes the society better. Also, when you give welfare,

697
00:44:36,039 --> 00:44:38,400
if you give someone thirty thousand dollars a year, and

698
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,719
they spend twenty eight of it in your society. Guess

699
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:45,440
what does better for society? Why do you think Walmart

700
00:44:45,559 --> 00:44:49,599
supports food stamps because they know those people will spend

701
00:44:49,599 --> 00:44:52,519
that money. There are so many ways. I even look

702
00:44:52,559 --> 00:44:55,559
at all the isms sexism, racism and stuff.

703
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:56,559
Speaker 2: When you are.

704
00:44:56,679 --> 00:44:59,280
Speaker 6: Using the energy it takes to keep people down, draw

705
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,880
because it is a it is a conscious decision to

706
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:06,079
keep people in a certain position, you are wasting energy time.

707
00:45:06,199 --> 00:45:10,440
I always ask people how much money and how stronger

708
00:45:10,559 --> 00:45:12,519
would if Hitler would have been if he had not

709
00:45:12,599 --> 00:45:15,960
spent time killing six million Jews and six million others.

710
00:45:16,639 --> 00:45:21,039
The resources, the logistics and everything it took to do that.

711
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:23,639
Not only did he turn to people that he had

712
00:45:24,159 --> 00:45:27,400
in a society against him, he used resources that could

713
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,599
have otherwise been sent into the work. These are the

714
00:45:29,639 --> 00:45:32,960
things that people don't think about. Then I think about.

715
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,480
You know, I always ask this question of wealthy. You

716
00:45:35,519 --> 00:45:38,800
know people who are conservatives, I says, we know in

717
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,360
a capitalist society they will always be poor. There's no

718
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,440
way you can do it. I said. We call full

719
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,280
employment four percent, so we know that there's in the

720
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:50,199
United States at four percent. There's going to be these

721
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:53,360
forty million people or whatever million people who will never

722
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:58,519
have a job. You know, factually, they will always exist.

723
00:45:58,760 --> 00:45:59,800
What are we to do with him?

724
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 2: When I was younger and a little more naive, I

725
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,679
remember thinking, well, it's their own fault they don't want

726
00:46:07,679 --> 00:46:10,239
to work or they're late. Not that laziness doesn't exist.

727
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,199
We know it does. We know there are people who

728
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:16,920
simply refuse to participate in a society, and they will.

729
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,199
There are people who are producers and takers, and that's

730
00:46:19,199 --> 00:46:21,840
a whole other conversation. But I used to write it off,

731
00:46:22,079 --> 00:46:23,480
you know. I used to be like, ah, you know,

732
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,000
if you don't have a job, it's your own fault.

733
00:46:26,039 --> 00:46:29,239
This America, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Which was

734
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,719
absolutely a position of privilege, and it was a way

735
00:46:33,039 --> 00:46:35,800
to take all these people who were disadvantaged with a

736
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,039
deck stacked against them, and I can just write them

737
00:46:38,039 --> 00:46:40,400
off and blame them, right. It was victim blaming.

738
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 6: There's so much of this going on in this country,

739
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,960
and to the anxiety of Trump getting in the White

740
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:51,199
House again, tell me what great nation and great empire

741
00:46:51,599 --> 00:46:54,000
doesn't end up in a place that they self destruct.

742
00:46:55,119 --> 00:46:57,840
From Rome to China to all of them, and even

743
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,280
the British, and you know, the one thing, that telling

744
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:02,519
thing that you see and all these looking at it.

745
00:47:02,639 --> 00:47:06,960
Historically they all end up with the barbarians, the outsider.

746
00:47:07,519 --> 00:47:10,679
They all become greater than everybody else. Everybody else is

747
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,480
worse than they are, and when they get to that

748
00:47:13,599 --> 00:47:18,840
level of entitlement, they self destruct. What makes people think

749
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,840
we won't do the same thing. The americanceptionalism is going

750
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:25,760
to be our downfall. And you know when people say, well,

751
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:29,559
both sides. Anytime someone tells me both sides, that means

752
00:47:29,599 --> 00:47:33,320
that they are in a morally indefensible position. So they says,

753
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,400
well both sides. Do it. When you hear that kind

754
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,760
of language, be wary of that person of what they're saying.

755
00:47:40,519 --> 00:47:43,639
Speaker 2: I think sometimes people who are weary of all the

756
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:47,000
noise and they simply are not engaged, they are ignorant,

757
00:47:47,039 --> 00:47:50,360
don't know the facts, or maybe they're just resentful and

758
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,079
are looking for an excuse not to participate in any solutions.

759
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,840
Their way out is to say, eh, everything's screwed. They're

760
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,480
all equally bad, they're equally correct, they are no different.

761
00:48:01,559 --> 00:48:03,440
So I'm going to take my ball and go home.

762
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,519
And I think people are motivated in a lot of ways,

763
00:48:07,559 --> 00:48:11,480
different ways for taking that position. But you're right, it's

764
00:48:11,519 --> 00:48:14,760
either a position of privilege, or it's I think it

765
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,880
can be laziness, or you know, just bad reasoning. This idea,

766
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,840
you could look at both candidates, both parties, both situations

767
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,199
and make any kind of an equivalence argument to me

768
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:28,480
makes my brain explode. Rich That's good stuff. Thanks for

769
00:48:28,559 --> 00:48:30,840
being a part of today's conversation, my friend.

770
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 6: Thank you, sir.

771
00:48:32,719 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 2: I had a couple of thoughts. First of all, I

772
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:41,239
posted this and several people pushed back. I borrowed this

773
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:43,559
idea from somebody else, but I memed it and it

774
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:48,840
said this, I think we should outlaw billionaires instead. At

775
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,440
nine hundred ninety nine million, nine hundred ninety nine, nine

776
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,199
hundred ninety nine dollars, we can give them a plaque

777
00:48:55,280 --> 00:49:00,760
that says congratulations, you've won capitalism. Then we name a

778
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,320
dog park after them, and we use their surplus to

779
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:09,320
house clothe, feed, and medically treat needy and hurting people.

780
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:11,920
And I do I advocate you. I mean, if you

781
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:15,239
get to some certain point in this society, knowing that

782
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,559
this society helped you to make the money. You do

783
00:49:18,639 --> 00:49:21,400
have a responsibility, and I think there should be a

784
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,239
cap and we take the rest of it and we

785
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:28,199
distribute it to the needy to benefit the society that

786
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:31,559
benefited you. I agree with that. Some people came in

787
00:49:31,639 --> 00:49:33,920
and they were like, well, do you really want to

788
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,559
limit people or do you want to take away their rights?

789
00:49:37,679 --> 00:49:40,000
You know, everybody talks about rights, but they don't talk

790
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:44,280
about responsibilities. On the other side of the coin. Have

791
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,559
you heard about this guy, and this is several years old,

792
00:49:48,159 --> 00:49:56,440
the CEO of Japan Airlines, Haruka Nishimatsu. This man cut

793
00:49:56,519 --> 00:50:00,679
his own salary. He's CEO of Japan Airlines, or he

794
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,559
was at the time of the story. He cut his

795
00:50:03,679 --> 00:50:09,920
salary to ninety thousand dollars a year. He eats lunch

796
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:14,480
in the cafeteria with the employees. Because they had to

797
00:50:14,519 --> 00:50:18,320
make company white reductions. He knew his time to tighten

798
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:20,880
the purse strings. He decided he was going to do

799
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,079
the common man approach. He was going to lead by example.

800
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,159
He took the walls out of his office so that

801
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:31,039
his employees could approach him. He buys his clothes at

802
00:50:31,079 --> 00:50:36,360
a discount store. He doesn't wear ARMANI or VERSACEI or whatever,

803
00:50:37,039 --> 00:50:40,119
and he jumps on planes from time to time to

804
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:44,239
help out the flight attendance and talk to the passengers

805
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:48,239
because he wants to engage with the company that he manages.

806
00:50:48,679 --> 00:50:52,800
This guy made global news because he was saying, you

807
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:55,920
know what, we're all in this together, and ninety thousand

808
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,639
dollars a year in two thousand and five a solid

809
00:50:59,679 --> 00:51:02,559
living man, I'll be I can pay my bills with that,

810
00:51:03,159 --> 00:51:05,719
and I'm going to lead by example. I found that

811
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:09,400
story so refreshing. It just blows my mind. It makes

812
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:15,280
me think, well, maybe not all CEOs of big organizations

813
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:21,519
are hoarders. We've got more time, that means more calls,

814
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:32,400
short break, be right back. Thanks for your support on Paytreon.

815
00:51:32,559 --> 00:51:34,960
Really does make a difference. If you like what you hear,

816
00:51:35,039 --> 00:51:37,840
you'd like the show two days early and commercial free

817
00:51:38,039 --> 00:51:45,039
paytreon dot com. Slash Seth andrews Keith at nine to

818
00:51:45,039 --> 00:51:48,159
seven zero, Thanks for waiting? Are you there, Hey, Seth?

819
00:51:48,159 --> 00:51:48,599
Speaker 8: How are you?

820
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:50,800
Speaker 2: I'm well? Thank you? Keith? What's going on?

821
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 3: So?

822
00:51:52,519 --> 00:51:56,079
Speaker 8: I have been going through my own faith journey as

823
00:51:56,119 --> 00:51:58,320
we all do. I grew up in the Mormon faith

824
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:02,320
and later got the Evangelical Christianity, and in the last

825
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:05,880
few years, I've really, as I've researched, come to a

826
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:09,079
point where I've developed very serious questions about my faith.

827
00:52:09,559 --> 00:52:11,199
I don't think I'm quite to the point you are,

828
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,360
but I certainly don't believe in God as espoused in

829
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:18,119
the Christian Bible or in the other Holy Book. And

830
00:52:18,559 --> 00:52:21,440
as I go down this road, my struggle is in

831
00:52:21,559 --> 00:52:26,760
trying to balance being authentic versus keeping the peace when

832
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,000
it comes to talking with family and friends, because most

833
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:33,320
of them don't know that I have essentially lost my faith,

834
00:52:33,639 --> 00:52:36,079
and I know that if I were to have those

835
00:52:36,119 --> 00:52:38,039
conversations with a lot of them, it would cause a

836
00:52:38,079 --> 00:52:42,400
lot of hurt. And there are you know, there are situations, Okay,

837
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:46,079
you know, parents want to have a prayer before dinner.

838
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,119
Probably not a big deal, right, But there are other

839
00:52:49,199 --> 00:52:51,880
situations where I feel like I've become really fake. And

840
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:54,920
so I'm just very curious. As you've gone through your journey,

841
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:59,079
what has been and is your approach to balancing being

842
00:52:59,119 --> 00:53:01,599
your authentic self versus trying to keep the peace with

843
00:53:01,679 --> 00:53:04,199
people who still have a very strong faith.

844
00:53:05,039 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 2: A couple of things come to mind. First, of all,

845
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,639
I used to say I lost my faith. I phrased

846
00:53:10,679 --> 00:53:12,360
it that way, and I just heard you phrase it,

847
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,559
and there's nothing wrong with it except that it might

848
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:20,159
subliminally be saying that we lost something that we needed.

849
00:53:21,119 --> 00:53:23,960
And so I started changing and saying that, well, actually

850
00:53:24,039 --> 00:53:27,559
I rejected a bad idea. You know, I realized it

851
00:53:27,639 --> 00:53:31,920
was not true. So instead of saying I lost my faith,

852
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,119
meaning I hope I find it, instead I thought, well,

853
00:53:35,159 --> 00:53:37,960
I realized that, you know, it doesn't work, and so

854
00:53:38,079 --> 00:53:42,440
I moved on. Robert Ingersoll says, the more false we destroy,

855
00:53:42,599 --> 00:53:45,400
the more room there will be for the true. So

856
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:48,079
it's important if something is not true that we're able

857
00:53:48,159 --> 00:53:51,440
to sort of take that out and remove it to

858
00:53:51,519 --> 00:53:55,599
create oxygen, you know, space for oxygen and the new ideas,

859
00:53:55,639 --> 00:53:58,079
the better ideas can come in. The Second thing that

860
00:53:58,119 --> 00:54:01,000
comes to mind is the difference between peace and an

861
00:54:01,039 --> 00:54:04,599
absence of conflict. I remember times in my own family

862
00:54:05,639 --> 00:54:07,920
and if they want to pray, if I'm in their space,

863
00:54:08,079 --> 00:54:10,000
they want to pray and talk about Jesus and do

864
00:54:10,079 --> 00:54:13,039
their thing whatever. I mean, it's their house, their rules.

865
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:17,599
I usually don't engage unless they engage me in some

866
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:22,000
way or they say something blatantly offensive, and I feel

867
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,599
like I need to stand up for a marginalized person

868
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,119
or group, you know, as a matter of principle. But

869
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:33,400
beyond that, whatever, it's your house, your rules. But if

870
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,559
they're coming after me or I feel like they are

871
00:54:37,079 --> 00:54:40,800
not willing to accept me for who I am because

872
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:44,440
I don't toe the line and validate them and line

873
00:54:44,559 --> 00:54:47,159
up with them, then I have to have a conversation.

874
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:51,239
What's the collateral damage going to look like? And is

875
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,119
it worth it to me? And I can't answer that

876
00:54:54,199 --> 00:54:57,159
question for you. You know, are their kids in play?

877
00:54:57,199 --> 00:54:59,199
And you know, will that mean that the kids don't

878
00:54:59,199 --> 00:55:02,559
see the grandparents? And what about your spouse if you

879
00:55:02,679 --> 00:55:05,400
have one, And what if your employer finds out and

880
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,039
he is a believer? Might you lose your job meaning

881
00:55:08,039 --> 00:55:10,599
that you can't pay the mortgage so now you're homeless.

882
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:12,960
I mean, there's all these other things that only you

883
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:17,360
can really assess. I do think, though, that the goal

884
00:55:17,519 --> 00:55:21,639
is authenticity. The people in your family, they're not walking

885
00:55:21,679 --> 00:55:25,079
on eggshells trying to keep you comfortable. You're the one

886
00:55:25,119 --> 00:55:29,280
walking on eggshells to keep them comfortable. And I think

887
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:32,239
the goal is to give ourselves, the respect, the self

888
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,480
respect to be able to apply the same rules to

889
00:55:35,599 --> 00:55:38,559
us that they get to apply to themselves. Do you

890
00:55:38,639 --> 00:55:42,280
worry about fallout, blowback, collateral damage.

891
00:55:42,679 --> 00:55:45,199
Speaker 8: Yeah, I absolutely do, and I think in my own

892
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:49,199
situation it's not so much. I don't worry about blowback

893
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:53,480
in terms of being disowned or not having relationships or

894
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,440
losing a job. And I'm very fortunate in that regard.

895
00:55:57,159 --> 00:56:00,480
I'm fortunate in that I actually have some wonderful relationationships

896
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:03,280
with family and friends. But in that regard too, it

897
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:07,440
makes the fear more so because I fear losing their

898
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:12,000
I don't know that respect is the right word, but

899
00:56:12,599 --> 00:56:15,639
just the closeness of those relationships. You know, again, they

900
00:56:15,639 --> 00:56:18,400
would never push me away from being around them or

901
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,400
from being a part of their lives, but that there

902
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:25,320
wouldn't be a closeness, or maybe it's a veneer of closeness.

903
00:56:25,599 --> 00:56:28,679
Speaker 2: We're talking about distance, And I think it makes total sense.

904
00:56:29,199 --> 00:56:31,760
What happens if they don't fully lean into me as

905
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,840
a friend anymore? What happens if they become guarded or

906
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:38,760
even distrustful, And you know, those types of conversations are

907
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:42,360
totally valid. The thing is is if you are authentic,

908
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:44,480
and I think there's a way to approach that you

909
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:46,679
don't walk in with it. There is no God t

910
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:50,639
shirt on Thanksgiving in front of family. I mean, that's

911
00:56:51,519 --> 00:56:53,480
you and I both know that that's not the way

912
00:56:53,519 --> 00:56:59,639
to go. But if you don't participate in religious rituals,

913
00:57:00,119 --> 00:57:03,239
they notice that you're not going to the church anymore.

914
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:08,159
And maybe you aren't comfortable leading the prayer over the

915
00:57:08,159 --> 00:57:11,159
mashed potatoes tomorrow or whatever. You say, you know what,

916
00:57:11,199 --> 00:57:13,320
I think I'm good. I'd like someone else to handle

917
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:17,719
that today. And you are able to softly communicate that

918
00:57:18,079 --> 00:57:21,199
your comfort zone is changing and you are on a

919
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:23,800
journey and you're asking some questions and you may have

920
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:26,079
some doubts, but you're working through it and you're still

921
00:57:26,119 --> 00:57:28,440
a good person and those types of things. I think

922
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:31,760
that's a great way to approach it. If they still

923
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:36,920
lean away from you and that defense comes up and

924
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:41,159
they become distant, it's sad, it's tragic, but it's not

925
00:57:41,239 --> 00:57:44,119
your fault. And I worry that you're maybe taking the

926
00:57:44,159 --> 00:57:48,840
responsibility on you. Like if if your friends or family

927
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:53,599
became Buddhist tomorrow, or Hindu or even Muslim or whatever,

928
00:57:54,679 --> 00:57:58,480
would you distance yourself from them. I wager you would

929
00:57:58,519 --> 00:58:01,320
still be the same loving connection person you always were,

930
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:01,840
wouldn't you?

931
00:58:02,239 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 8: I would, Which actually raises an interesting point, because you know,

932
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:09,119
as I consider that I am fortunate, very fortunate to

933
00:58:09,159 --> 00:58:12,400
have some wonderful relationships and just truly good people in

934
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:15,159
my life, it may also be not giving them enough

935
00:58:15,199 --> 00:58:19,199
credit to make a presumption that if I was authentic,

936
00:58:19,239 --> 00:58:22,239
if I was honest, that they would pull away. Maybe

937
00:58:22,239 --> 00:58:25,960
that's essentially downplaying their goodness, and I need to give

938
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:29,199
them the opportunity to show that they're not that person.

939
00:58:29,679 --> 00:58:34,199
Speaker 2: Another layer to that is that you might become an

940
00:58:34,199 --> 00:58:38,280
opportunity for their world to expand, because they would see

941
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:41,719
in someone that they already know in three dimensions, kind

942
00:58:41,719 --> 00:58:46,000
of an evolution of thought, and they might become curious,

943
00:58:46,639 --> 00:58:51,199
and it might humanize the whole thing. Whether you're secular,

944
00:58:51,559 --> 00:58:56,239
you're on a journey, you're seeking, your agnostic, your spiritual, whatever,

945
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,159
you can call yourself nothing, I don't care. But if

946
00:58:59,159 --> 00:59:04,760
they want you, it totally humanizes it, and it's very

947
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:07,119
difficult for them, I think, to put you in a box.

948
00:59:07,719 --> 00:59:10,719
We love you, You're a great guy, You're still moral,

949
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:12,920
you still want to go out and make a better world.

950
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:15,840
You're awesome to hang with, and whether or not you

951
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,000
believe in my God or not doesn't seem I mean,

952
00:59:18,039 --> 00:59:21,239
you're still the same you. You have expanded their worlds

953
00:59:21,599 --> 00:59:23,760
in a lot of ways, and I think that's totally

954
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:27,519
valid and necessary in my own life. When I get

955
00:59:27,559 --> 00:59:29,840
to know people and then afterward they find out I'm

956
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:34,440
a professional heathen, it blows their mind. As someone said

957
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:36,960
earlier in the show about being a better Christian, I

958
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:38,960
had a buddy of mine on the tennis team. He said,

959
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:40,880
you know, Seth, you're a better Christian than most of

960
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:43,840
the Christians I know, and he knows what I do.

961
00:59:44,079 --> 00:59:45,599
But what he was trying to say is you're a

962
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:49,000
really good guy who does the right thing, and it

963
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:53,360
expanded his horizons. You never know what might happen in

964
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:56,679
your circle of influence when you do live authentically. But

965
00:59:56,760 --> 01:00:00,159
I don't feel rushed, don't feel like a coward for

966
01:00:00,239 --> 01:00:04,119
not doing it quickly. But just watch the people around

967
01:00:04,159 --> 01:00:07,480
you and ask yourself, would they be sitting on their hands,

968
01:00:07,559 --> 01:00:13,400
would they be tiptoeing on eggshells? And if they wouldn't, well,

969
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:16,039
why am I applying a different set of rules to me.

970
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:18,440
I don't know, does that make any sense? Does that

971
01:00:18,519 --> 01:00:19,039
help it all?

972
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 7: It does?

973
01:00:20,079 --> 01:00:22,960
Speaker 8: Absolutely, this is great. I really appreciate your insights and

974
01:00:23,039 --> 01:00:25,039
this helps me. It helps to talk it through and

975
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:27,400
I think gives me some good things to think about.

976
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:28,000
So thank you.

977
01:00:28,239 --> 01:00:30,679
Speaker 2: Oh, thanks so much for calling. Much appreciated.

978
01:00:31,119 --> 01:00:32,800
Speaker 8: Absolutely, have a good even accessing.

979
01:00:33,679 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's the answer, but I think

980
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:39,880
he said it right. We're talking it out to equals

981
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:42,599
friends who were saying, well, what if what about that?

982
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:45,480
Here's my opinion. That's how I'm approaching it. I'm not

983
01:00:45,519 --> 01:00:48,880
a licensed counselor, but I've had a lot of these

984
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:52,039
conversations and I've certainly been through it myself. It's hard

985
01:00:52,079 --> 01:00:55,480
in my own family. I'm I'm related to people I

986
01:00:55,599 --> 01:00:59,000
don't relate to in so many ways, and I've had

987
01:00:59,039 --> 01:01:02,719
to scratch the family itch with you. And when I

988
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:05,280
go out and speak on the road, I'm surrounded by

989
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:08,360
people who do love and respect me, and they lean

990
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:11,079
into me and they challenge me, and sometimes we disagree,

991
01:01:11,119 --> 01:01:13,920
and those disagreements get heated and we're you know, having

992
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:16,679
those discussions about the world and whatnot. But there's never

993
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:21,440
disrespect there's never judgment. They don't diminish me. I don't

994
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:25,199
diminish them, you know. And man to have that, and

995
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:30,239
to deny yourself that by saying, well, I'm just gonna

996
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:33,480
be quiet, because man, they're going to flip out and

997
01:01:33,519 --> 01:01:37,880
make my life hell and we sure don't want that. Well,

998
01:01:38,079 --> 01:01:41,559
I understand it, but I also lament it a little bit,

999
01:01:41,639 --> 01:01:44,360
and I think, you know, maybe you should just say it,

1000
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:47,159
if you can, maybe just say who you are, what

1001
01:01:47,239 --> 01:01:49,360
you think, why you think it, what your values are.

1002
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:53,320
Be you without apology, at the volume you choose, and

1003
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:57,719
if other people don't like it, that's their problem, not yours.

1004
01:01:59,119 --> 01:02:01,400
That's all I got today, it's all I have time for.

1005
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:05,880
I am so thankful for you and for your calls

1006
01:02:06,079 --> 01:02:10,599
and your input. Go give something to somebody today. There

1007
01:02:10,639 --> 01:02:14,960
are no hoarders in this audience. I'm sure orders of resources,

1008
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:17,920
but I think maybe we have a little something extra

1009
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:20,519
that we can do for someone else. So pay it

1010
01:02:20,599 --> 01:02:24,239
forward out there, and let's try to show these oligarchs,

1011
01:02:24,719 --> 01:02:29,000
the spoiled, rotten manchild billionaires, how human beings ought to

1012
01:02:29,039 --> 01:02:32,760
behave And until next time, be good. I'll see you.

1013
01:02:33,159 --> 01:02:36,679
Speaker 1: Follow the Thinking Atheist on Facebook, and Twitter. For a

1014
01:02:36,719 --> 01:02:40,360
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1015
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:44,039
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1016
01:02:44,079 --> 01:02:47,760
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1017
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:53,320
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