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<v Speaker 1>This is pod Popular Podcast for the People, The Great

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<v Speaker 1>Love Debates. It's the Great Love Debate, The Great Love Debates.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a Great Love to Hi again everyone, It's Brian Howie.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to The Great Love Debate, the world's number one

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<v Speaker 1>dating and relationship podcast since twenty fifteen. You get just

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<v Speaker 1>me today. Good news for some of you, bad news

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<v Speaker 1>for some of you. And I know podcasts are supposed

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<v Speaker 1>to be evergreen, which means make no reference to events

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<v Speaker 1>or time, so that somebody listening to this show or

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<v Speaker 1>any other show down the road won't feel sort of

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<v Speaker 1>like wait, what I missed something, or or they feel

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<v Speaker 1>left out. But I am recording this on a fall

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<v Speaker 1>day at pod Popular Podcasts for the People. I am

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<v Speaker 1>at the one just outside of Cleveland, Ohio, in a

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<v Speaker 1>place called Legacy Village, in a place called Lyndhurst, Ohio.

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<v Speaker 1>And let me tell you something, it's fall, and fall,

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<v Speaker 1>by far is the best season. It just doesn't have

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<v Speaker 1>as good a publicis as spring, and definitely not summer,

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<v Speaker 1>and maybe not even winter. If you went on Family

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<v Speaker 1>Feud and Steve Harvey Steve Harvey still the host of

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<v Speaker 1>Family Feud, I think he is anyway, if Steve Harvey said,

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<v Speaker 1>top four seasons on the board. Name a season. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not sure people wouldn't say fall last, but fall is

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<v Speaker 1>the best. And maybe because it has two names. It's fall,

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<v Speaker 1>it's autumn that it dilutes it a bit that sounds

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<v Speaker 1>like a Seinfeld bids are the two names with the fall,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's the best. Spring is so overrated, it barely

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<v Speaker 1>exists in most of the country. It's just an idea,

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<v Speaker 1>this thing of spring. You get these two dreary, soggy

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<v Speaker 1>months of March and April followed by a boiling hot

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<v Speaker 1>Memorial Hey weekend. But people fall in the love, in

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<v Speaker 1>love with the idea of spring. You're like, where's he

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<v Speaker 1>going with this? I'll get there. Because it's supposed to

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<v Speaker 1>symbolize a rebirth or an awakening, and because January and

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<v Speaker 1>February are so miserable in you know, three quarters of

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<v Speaker 1>the country. I think people want to just cling to

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<v Speaker 1>any scrap of sun or the possibility of it. And

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<v Speaker 1>you've earnd me rant about summer before. Summer is so overrated,

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<v Speaker 1>it's miserable. I think we fall in love with it

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<v Speaker 1>because as kids, we have no schools, so we're like summer,

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<v Speaker 1>and we carry that mindset into adulthood. But summer in

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<v Speaker 1>most of the country is really just a sea of

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<v Speaker 1>mosquitoes and humidity, and winter's winter. It's three weeks of

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<v Speaker 1>holiday decorations, maybe five, maybe nine now because they spread

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<v Speaker 1>it out, and then just death, the dead of winter.

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<v Speaker 1>But I'm not here to be a meteorologist. But death,

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<v Speaker 1>that's sort of what I want to get into, not dying.

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<v Speaker 1>So I've mentioned a bunch of times recently that I

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<v Speaker 1>started a new podcast and it is called Dead to Me,

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<v Speaker 1>and it is about estrangement, particularly family estrangement. And people

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<v Speaker 1>ask me, what in the world does that show have

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<v Speaker 1>to do with this show Great Love Debate, And it's

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<v Speaker 1>really the opposite. It was this show have to do

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<v Speaker 1>with that show, and why I consider it not that

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<v Speaker 1>big of a pivot, and I don't even think it's

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<v Speaker 1>the opposite of the love stuff. I consider it almost

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<v Speaker 1>a book. ND, because I've studied this a bit, and

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<v Speaker 1>I have heard for years from hundreds and hundreds of

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<v Speaker 1>people who have reached out and who have brought it

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<v Speaker 1>up at our live shows that one of the main

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<v Speaker 1>reasons that people have trouble getting into relationships or staying

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<v Speaker 1>in one or being in a healthy one is that

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<v Speaker 1>there are issues unresolved or that are linger sort of circling,

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<v Speaker 1>a family disconnect of some kind, And lots of times,

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<v Speaker 1>obviously we too many times put our relationship issues at

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<v Speaker 1>the feet of the previous boyfriends or girlfriends, or marriages

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<v Speaker 1>or ex wives, ex husbands, all that we always blame

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<v Speaker 1>something in our rearview mirror. But a lot of times

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<v Speaker 1>I think it precedes those and a lot of times

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<v Speaker 1>I think those relationships didn't work out because of some

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<v Speaker 1>subtle or some complete disconnect with the family or a

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<v Speaker 1>family member particularly apparent. Sometimes the bow simply breaks. I know,

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<v Speaker 1>you guys who listens for a long time, I've talked

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<v Speaker 1>about my own situation, and on the first episode of

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<v Speaker 1>Dead to Me, I dive deeply into my history and

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<v Speaker 1>it was extremely traumatic to talk about, but it was

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<v Speaker 1>also a little therapeutic. And the response I have got

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<v Speaker 1>for doing so it really was overwhelming. And why I

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to sort of cross the over into this podcast

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<v Speaker 1>because there's so much crossover in the emotions and the

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<v Speaker 1>subject matter and the relationship stuff. So I want to

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<v Speaker 1>explain a little bit more of this and I have

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<v Speaker 1>some studies on it and my theories and opinions on it,

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<v Speaker 1>because what is the great love debate without my theories

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<v Speaker 1>and opinions. But we have to take a quick break

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<v Speaker 1>and we will get into it, all of it right

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<v Speaker 1>after this and we are back. So let's start with

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<v Speaker 1>trust issues, emotional attachment issues, abandonment issues, trauma, abuse, anger,

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<v Speaker 1>on and on and on. And if you think if

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<v Speaker 1>you don't have those towards a mom or dad or both,

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<v Speaker 1>or a sibling, that it won't affect you in your

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<v Speaker 1>your adulthood or a romantic situation, if you do, excuse me,

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<v Speaker 1>don't have if you do have one of these, if

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<v Speaker 1>you have something like unresolved or haven't talked to your

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<v Speaker 1>dad in two years, or something with your mom, you

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<v Speaker 1>don't think that will carry into every aspect romantically in

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<v Speaker 1>your life. Of course it will, but it's weird to

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<v Speaker 1>bring your family into your psyche or into the bedroom,

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<v Speaker 1>so we often draw a line or we put up

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<v Speaker 1>a wall between the two, like one doesn't have anything

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<v Speaker 1>to do with the other. And like I said before,

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<v Speaker 1>you are more likely to blame your college boyfriend for

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<v Speaker 1>your dating issues in your late thirties than you are

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<v Speaker 1>to look back at a fight or a situation within

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<v Speaker 1>the childhood home or since the childhood home. But if

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<v Speaker 1>you can't trust the loved ones, the ones who first

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<v Speaker 1>taught you, hopefully the concept of love, unconditional love, then

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<v Speaker 1>you can't trust the love at all. So I looked

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<v Speaker 1>into how common this was or is twelve percent, which

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<v Speaker 1>is about one out of eight. Twelve percent of adults

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<v Speaker 1>have had or currently have an estrangement situation with one

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<v Speaker 1>or more parents. By estrangement, they define it. The experts

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<v Speaker 1>on this thing, and I'm not sure there are any

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<v Speaker 1>experts on this thing, because it's not really dove into

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<v Speaker 1>that much because people don't want to talk about it.

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<v Speaker 1>They define estrangement as breaking off, a breakoff lasting at

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<v Speaker 1>least six months, possibly as long as to death forever.

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<v Speaker 1>I suppose. Surprisingly, sibling estrangement is less common. The rate

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<v Speaker 1>is about half of that new figure. Sibling rivalry would

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<v Speaker 1>carry on through adulthood. It would manifest itself in all

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<v Speaker 1>sorts of destructive ways jealousy, resentment, anger, guilt, whatever, into

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<v Speaker 1>your thirties, forties, fifties, whatever. But it really tends to

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<v Speaker 1>not statistically, and it also when it does happen, it

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't necessarily affect relationships. When it does, you are sort

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<v Speaker 1>of wired as a baby to trust the unit me, mom, dad,

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<v Speaker 1>Siblings are kind to decide like this is it the

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<v Speaker 1>three of us, this core family. So it usually gets

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<v Speaker 1>back to the parents or the breakdown within the parents structure.

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<v Speaker 1>And if parents get divorced, which they do lots, and

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<v Speaker 1>then one parent ends up basically out of the loop

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<v Speaker 1>for whatever reason, legal or logistical or custodial, or just

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<v Speaker 1>complete indifference, which is the big one. I could see

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<v Speaker 1>how that breaks down trust Where is dad? Why isn't

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<v Speaker 1>there a dad? And it leads to abandonment and attachment

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<v Speaker 1>issues and God forfeit its flip side, it's usually the dad.

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<v Speaker 1>But when a mom leaves my God, does that affected

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<v Speaker 1>things down the road. So I'm not getting into this

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<v Speaker 1>today or on that podcast or you know, or this

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<v Speaker 1>one to play psychologists, but it is something that we

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<v Speaker 1>don't think about or talk about. Sigmund Freud, of all people,

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<v Speaker 1>he certainly dealt with parental attachment issues weird ones, but

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<v Speaker 1>only four times in all of his volumes and volumes

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<v Speaker 1>of writing and philosophy does he even touch on estrangement.

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<v Speaker 1>I've touched on it more, probably on the history of

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<v Speaker 1>this podcast than Freud. So, you know, good for us

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<v Speaker 1>and hopefully good for you guys, because it's rarely thought about,

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<v Speaker 1>it's rarely talked about. It's definitely not you don't, don't

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<v Speaker 1>dive into it, and it's almost always swept under the rug.

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<v Speaker 1>But it really is, and you know, it could be

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<v Speaker 1>the source of so many of our issues, even breakdowns

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<v Speaker 1>within healthy relationships. After a while, they tend to follow

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<v Speaker 1>the patterns of family behavior and the other way. I

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<v Speaker 1>think this matters definitely to me and probably too many

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<v Speaker 1>of you. Is the shame around it and bringing shame

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<v Speaker 1>into dating for whatever it is. Oh my god, you

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<v Speaker 1>don't think that's going to kill a relationship or at

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<v Speaker 1>least stunt it. So many people look into date are

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<v Speaker 1>looking for someone who quote unquote has a healthy, loving

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<v Speaker 1>family relationship. I remember, but years ago we had Ben

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<v Speaker 1>Higgins the Bachelor winner. Are they the winner if they're

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<v Speaker 1>the star? I don't know the guy. He was the

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<v Speaker 1>Bachelor on one of the seasons, and he's done our

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<v Speaker 1>live show in a couple of cities. I know he

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<v Speaker 1>did a Denver, I did it. I know he did

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<v Speaker 1>in La I think he did in New York. He's

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<v Speaker 1>I love Benny's great, but he is adamant that a

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<v Speaker 1>potential partner must have a close relationship with their family,

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<v Speaker 1>and he would bring that up on stage. You'd be

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<v Speaker 1>like this, this is so important, and I'm like why obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>because I'm like, oh my god, that shouldn't be such

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<v Speaker 1>a deal breaker. But lots of people feel that way.

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<v Speaker 1>And when he says it on our stage in front

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<v Speaker 1>of hundreds of people, a lot of the people are like, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>Ben's right, and I just want to crawl under a table.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's not just you know, freaky weirdos like me

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<v Speaker 1>who don't have that close relationship. And when somebody mentions

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<v Speaker 1>it like that out loud, those of us who don't

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<v Speaker 1>have it, we are deeply embarrassed. And so it eliminates

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<v Speaker 1>a whole pool of possible love interest who are turned

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<v Speaker 1>off by that. So even at holiday time, it really

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<v Speaker 1>throws the balance off when you're dating someone and you

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<v Speaker 1>always go to their families and not your own, or

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<v Speaker 1>you get married and one side of the church is

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<v Speaker 1>filled with all the aunts and uncles and cousins and

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<v Speaker 1>the other is just a scattering of college friends, and yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean the reason for that could be, like you

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<v Speaker 1>just don't have a big family, you know, this big

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<v Speaker 1>Italian family. But when it's not that, and it's simply

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<v Speaker 1>a lack of closeness or a breakdown, at best, it's

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<v Speaker 1>embarrassing and at worst it's defining. This is how they

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<v Speaker 1>are defined. They do not talk to their mother, they

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<v Speaker 1>do not talk to their family. They are the black sheep.

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<v Speaker 1>And if you get like you know, over forty, like me,

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<v Speaker 1>and you've never been married and you don't have a

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<v Speaker 1>close relationship with your family, you don't think that's an

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<v Speaker 1>issue for people who might want to date us, no doubt,

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<v Speaker 1>no doubt, and it probably should be. But when do

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<v Speaker 1>you even bring that up or how do you even

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<v Speaker 1>dodge it when it is brought up? Because it could

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<v Speaker 1>be brought up date one, you know, somebody's cutting into

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<v Speaker 1>their salmon on the date and they're going to ask

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<v Speaker 1>right away, so where does your family live? Do you

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<v Speaker 1>see them often? And then that angst and that that

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<v Speaker 1>shame and that you know, nervousness sets in and you

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<v Speaker 1>don't want to go there, and then you seem evasive

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<v Speaker 1>and sketchy, and it all starts to unravel. That is

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<v Speaker 1>why that matters in this love dating relationship space. So anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not trying to run from the subject. I'm just

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<v Speaker 1>trying to say why it's important to me, why it

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<v Speaker 1>matters in the universe of this podcast, and why I

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<v Speaker 1>think it's relevant to explore it for so many of you.

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<v Speaker 1>Because I've heard from so many of you about this.

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<v Speaker 1>That's why I want to explore it every once in

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<v Speaker 1>a while on this podcast, all the time on that podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>So check that podcast out. As I said before, it's

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<v Speaker 1>called Dead to Me. It is an estrangement podcast. If

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<v Speaker 1>you have something to say on that, you can email

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<v Speaker 1>Dead to Me show show at gmail dot com. And

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<v Speaker 1>if you have some thoughts for this show, you can

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<v Speaker 1>get touch with us as always a great love debate

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<v Speaker 1>at gmail dot com. This isn't the longest episode I've

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<v Speaker 1>ever done, but it's important to I know a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of you. It's definitely important to me, and I hate

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<v Speaker 1>that this is this. You know, I'm kind of defined

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<v Speaker 1>as that now because people have been listening to that podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>and every person I talk to who I know listen

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<v Speaker 1>to podcasts, they do look at me differently, and some

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<v Speaker 1>want to give me a hug, and that's not necessarily

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<v Speaker 1>a good thing either, because I feel some pity and

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<v Speaker 1>some are like that explains everything. That's why you're so

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<v Speaker 1>fucked up and you don't want to be that anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>as you me an. Email to either one of those shows,

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<v Speaker 1>go to Great Lovedebate dot com. Our final I think yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm gonna stand. I don't be wishy washy Howie. Final.

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<v Speaker 1>Great Love Debate Live show December third, talk about not

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<v Speaker 1>being evergreen. This is the show December twentieth, December third,

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty four at the Boca black Box Center for

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<v Speaker 1>the Arts in Lovely Boca Routon in Florida. Take us

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<v Speaker 1>around sale for that at Great Lovedebate dot com or

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<v Speaker 1>at Boca Blackbox dot com. H tenth year of this podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>and we still appreciate your reviews. They mean a lot

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<v Speaker 1>to us in the podcasting ecosystem for this show and

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<v Speaker 1>dead to me. So give us a review click five stars.

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<v Speaker 1>They still matter because, as always at the Great Love Debate,

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<v Speaker 1>we never stopped making love. See you next time, the

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<v Speaker 1>Great Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate, the Great

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<v Speaker 1>Love Debate. It's a Great Love Debate.