Speaker 1: Coopers fans. Welcome to Season three, episode fifteen, Weird Vibes
of Clips and Different that these guys there are weird vibes.
I'm Chuck Mackler, Will Updike, who was commenting on the
indeed weird Vibes, is here. Adam Oslin is here. We
are Clips and Dip. Thank you for watching, Thank you
for listening to us. We have some pertinent stuff to
talk about, not fun stuff to talk about. Before we
get into it, We're gonna be talking to Kawhi procedures,
the variety of things they've done to his knee, the
timeline that doesn't exist. We'll get into all that before
we do. Adam, Will, how are you guys doing on
this balmy September evening? Doing? Doing pretty good? Doing pretty good.
Speaker 2: I gotta some vacation coming up, and it just hit
me like how much shit I have.
Speaker 1: To get in place for that to go off. So sure,
Professionally I'm fine. Personally I'm great, all right, Adam, how
are you doing?
Speaker 3: Personally miserable? But professionally I'm all right. Okay, I'm not surprised.
Speaker 1: What are you not surprised about?
Speaker 3: Where I'm at?
Speaker 1: Good Lord, you guys, do we need to start over?
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: I think there's a there's a palpable numbness in the
air from clippers uh, the clippers fear. I feel like
there was a Lawrence Frank TYLERU presser. Yesterday. We learned
that there's no timetable for Kwhi coming back. We learned,
which could mean anything. Though sure think about it. This
is a big test of will. If you're near to
the show, will has been pounding the table that this
is our year. This one is the first time I
felt it. This has made me put that to the test.
The surgery happened in May. There's encouraging thing is that
the team in Kawhi have seen progress in Kauwhi's rehabilitation
of a knee inflammation. He's trending in the right direction.
But no timetable.
Speaker 2: It just does progress more or less than explosive box jumps.
Speaker 1: Less no specifics is less to me. They can't even
dignify us with specifics on the explosiveness of the box
jumps or shuttle runs. I don't know. I think I'm
having very very gallows humored vibe about this whole thing
because we've just how many sequels to Friday the thirteenth
are there. I believe there's eight or nine.
Speaker 3: I was gonna go with that, Yeah, I like. I
like the one in Oh. I was starting to think
of Jason, so I get confused. They fought each other once. Yeah,
is that okay? I'm thinking of Nightmare on Elm Street.
Then this I believe.
Speaker 2: I believe Jason takes man at is eight. I want
to say, Okay.
Speaker 3: I like the Jason X one whether they're in space.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so maybe so there's ten.
Speaker 2: I think it just gets murky on how you count
the sequels at a circu point, and.
Speaker 3: His costume at X was way off, so I don't
know if anyone counts that, but I liked it.
Speaker 1: Now that we've gotten that out of the way, this
feels like we're just on Friday the thirteenth, four or whatever.
I'm just kind of.
Speaker 3: Like on Wednesday burnt out, like well.
Speaker 2: So, if my memory starves me correctly, four is actually
about the news is where they set up that this
new guy is going to be Jason, and then the
fans hated it, so they had to pivot from it
immediately at the start of five. If my memory serves
me correctly. I could be I could be mixing up
a couple in there.
Speaker 1: We'll get our fact checker on that for later in
the episode.
Speaker 3: Is Wes Craven alive? This is how this see?
Speaker 1: This is what happens when the quiet news comes out.
How are you guys feeling about it? I've just been
to this movie before, and I feel way word before
the surgery.
Speaker 2: Okay, to be honest with you, like, but before the surgery,
I feel like it was way it was way, way worse.
Speaker 3: Okay, but let me break it down. No, there's two
things that seem to be definitive. Right, he has surgery
in May. Nobody's discounting that, and he's still not one
and it's almost October and nobody's discounting that.
Speaker 1: Those are two facts.
Speaker 3: Just let it out there.
Speaker 1: I feel like those are two facts.
Speaker 3: I think they are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not that.
Speaker 2: I feel like six months is reasonable for a timeline
to be back at full on core activities after a procedure,
depending on that, like, depending on the procedure.
Speaker 1: But okay, he's only they're just working on strengthening stuff.
He's not gonna be doing He's not going on We're
not six months yet.
Speaker 3: Wait, you from a cleanup, wake.
Speaker 1: Me up when September. Okay, we'll wake up in seven
days or whatever it is.
Speaker 3: Meanwhile, in between these two things, I think what really
confused people was he tried to go in the Olympics.
So if you're trying to.
Speaker 2: Is something like that is really puzzling.
Speaker 1: I'm so connecsed.
Speaker 3: That's where the confusion comes from.
Speaker 2: And Lawrence Frank stood on that, like he stood on
his talking point on that in this latest press conference
that he was disappointed in the way that that whole
thing resolved when.
Speaker 1: Like because he was medically cleared, Kawi said, because he
said Kawhi was medically cleared, So you're like, bye, who
by Team USA because he was medically cleared? Like how
was kd You know?
Speaker 3: Law Murray brought up with me earlier today that Okay,
the Olympics are like ten games total and he might
only play fifteen minutes per game at most, and they're shorter,
so yeah, forty mini games. So is the idea here.
I think there's a real chance they are just going
above and beyond and having an abundance of caution like
we've never seen before. Because it's Kawhi and because this
is the fourth year this has happened, and if that's
the case, I am all for it. Like if you
want to make sure even if he felt like he's
good enough to go in training camp, even if Kawhi
wants to do everything, You're like, it's training camp and
your knee is in a good place right now.
Speaker 2: So how on that as soon as that thing is
stitched up.
Speaker 1: Well, it's trending in the right direction. It's like they're
working on the no drills thing. I'm like, okay, whatever,
no drill I don't know. I'm more tense about it
today than I was yesterday. But I also I am
having a vaccine and flu shot hangover. But it doesn't
feel great.
Speaker 3: But it's not the numbness.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so both of those things are part of the numbness.
It's not unexpected. It's not like I was like, it's
not like I saw that Phonel whoa. I feel like surgery.
I feel like we'd have to review some tape.
Speaker 2: But I do feel like we have even talked about
on this show, like it is a presumption that we
will have Kawhi in the starting lineup on Open YEA
like we all were trending towards I mean, like, yes,
we think so, we hope so. But it was still
something that we have said as like a it is
an asterisk, like we you know, it wasn't granted, we
we had no idea the last time we saw the
man in competitive basketball.
Speaker 1: It was uh, it was not great to look at. Uh,
one of the more depressing, very very depressing.
Speaker 2: So but I don't know, like though, I understand the disappointment,
but at the same time, it's not like I mean,
I guess the Team USA stuff is kind of a curveball,
but like we there was never any guarantee from where
we last saw Kawhi in competitive basketball that he would.
Speaker 1: Be like one hundred percent good to go opening night.
Speaker 2: That is the whole It has been a very long time.
I'm not I'm not disagreeing with any of those points,
but I you know, I do think it is an assumption.
It you know, it was an assumption by the greater.
Speaker 1: Surprise is different than disappointment, Like being surprised by this
is crazy to me that I'm like, come.
Speaker 3: On, okay, yeah, I think where people are coming from
is it's five months and the swelling isn't completely down yet. Right,
that's the concern, right because last season when he got
theminiscus surgery, Kawai talked about it at media day, like
he was good in three weeks because we kind of
ran the numbers because he wanted to play for Team USA.
Then it almost did, but had some other priorities that
he had to go to and we were like, wait
a second. So he was good in like three weeks.
He was good in like a month, and that was
meniscus and this is cleanup and it's five months. That's
what law told me earlier.
Speaker 1: I don't okay. I just yeah, I just saw procedu yourselves,
like people said scope. I was like, I don't know
what what that could be. I don't know.
Speaker 3: My concern is what I don't even know about yet.
I've been kind of worried about this going back to
April when I just heard its swelling and there was
no even if you can say there was no video
clip of the injury with the meniscus tear that anybody
can definitively say this is where he towards meniscus, there
were clips out there where people like, yeah, it was
probably right here. There's a clip out there with Joe Ingles.
This was an accumulation, an overused type of injury where
the surgically repaired right knee from the meniscus from the
ACL was starting to swell up. After sixty eight games,
it seemed like you just hit the wall and they
couldn't get it under control in time, even though they
had a month almost before the playoffs started and they
couldn't figure out a way. Maybe not a month, but
they had about three weeks time and they couldn't figure
out a way to get it under control. And it
started to make me feel like this is gonna be
something they're going to be managing going forward where it
could just flare up because when it goes down, it's
going down because he's not playing high level basketball. How
is it going to be affected when he's playing five
on five basketball, Because that's what I said the entire time, Guys,
I'm sure he'll try to go in the playoffs. It
depends on how he responds afterwards. It did not respond well.
Game two looked much better than Game three. Game three
was unbelievable compared to it was night and day even
compared to Game two, where it looked like, hey, he
looks looks all right, he looks rusty because he has
played in a while, but movement wise, it kind of
looked all right. This is my concern. This is where
I'm coming from, where you just don't know. It's so
unpredictable with the swelling. And that's a lot of what
Lawrence Frank talked about it's tricky yesterday.
Speaker 1: Which yeah, that hey, he's right about.
Speaker 3: That, not trying to be an alarmist, but he said tricky.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, the thing is is like these for the
most part, we have like kind of reasonable timelines what
this stuff is going to take. You know, we kind
of have a basic understanding from the injuries and stuff.
Speaker 1: That have come before.
Speaker 2: But there's always weird freak stuff, right Like I think
about the Kyrie knee injury in twenty fifteen, and it
seemed like he was better and then the screws got
like an infection, oh and like and that thing lingered
for like years, man like years, and it it ended
up taking him out for another season, like I mean
years later until they finally figured that out. And I
guess this is a really dark cloud hope. But a
hope is that like maybe there was just something that
they hadn't accounted for. Right, It's not like this was
a regular knee procedure that he underwent, and it's still
just completely swelling, and and they have no idea why.
Maybe there's some sort of maybe they found or discovered
some sort of underlying thing, but they're not going to
release because that's not the way that Kawhi deals with
his medical stuff. But there are anomalies and there is
stuff that happens, and I I understand the concern, and I,
you know, could certainly couldn't give you a big argument
if you were to say, Kawhi Leonard might never play
playoff basketball again. But I will say that they're like,
there are anomalies and there is stuff that we don't
know about and.
Speaker 1: Who knows, you know, like.
Speaker 2: And when you say clean up, I like that. And
when you say cleanup procedure, we don't even know. We
don't even have definitive word that it was just that.
Speaker 3: No, So a lot of guessing, a lot of conjecture,
but the one thing we do know is surgery was
in May, and the swelling is almost gone in September.
A surgery wasn't there, Yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Was it the last one was there.
Speaker 3: Perhaps there's no reason that would be worse.
Speaker 1: I think if there was two surgeries, I'm just saying
I wasn't didn't have in my hand.
Speaker 3: Last said he doesn't believe there was any setback. So
when people are like, well he tries, what do you mean, well,
he tries to play for Team USA, they don't let
him play. People are like, okay, that's within a month
of having that surgery. We don't know when it wasn't made,
but between a month a month and a half he
goes to Team USA. He said there was a turning
point two weeks before he reported for camp, and therefore
he said, Okay, how serious could it have been of
a surgery if he's trying to play within a month
a month and a half later, So that sounds that
makes it sound like a good thing, like it's not
that big of a deal. But then we get to
September now, late September, and it's almost gone. The swelling
is it's just CONFUSINGA told us that you could play
or try to play in the Olympics, but then training
camp you can't participate in anything four months later, right, okay?
Speaker 2: But like two things about that a is some of
that just posturing, like him really demanding on the Team
USA thing. This isn't a knock on Kawhi, but I mean,
it's it's one of those. It's one of those things.
He's also a guy who's gonna say I mean.
Speaker 3: But like we saw a video.
Speaker 2: I know, but look at game three he said he
was fine to play then too, he couldn't come down
from the fucking rim, Like, what what are we doing here?
Speaker 3: I I'm just saying.
Speaker 1: For the surgery.
Speaker 2: He was probably like, yes, I'm ready to play. I'm
ready to play Olympic basketball.
Speaker 3: I understand players are always going to say that, but
at first, all the talking points where he looks good,
Kawhi looks good out there, but what are they supposed
to say, Well, you couldn't look like share or we
don't think that he looked good enough.
Speaker 1: That's like, I just I don't think you can.
Speaker 3: That from the video we saw. Did he look bad
with Team USA? He's playing five on five scrimmage stuff
like that's five on five scrimmage seems to be more
intensive to me that I would assume drills would be
months later at training camp.
Speaker 1: That's a wave of his no five on five during
summer rule too.
Speaker 2: Maybe they're only doing knee drills so he's not participating
in those.
Speaker 1: I turned dribbling on their knees. I just I think,
but well, I think you are right. Like the only
hope is like maybe it's not so bad. That's like
that's the only thing we kind of have right now. Hey,
Nico is going to be a great opening night for
We're gonna play fundamental basketball to start the season right
off the bat and into it, which is great and okay,
but we just hope.
Speaker 2: I just also want to talk about, like, what was
your realistic expectation.
Speaker 1: No One.
Speaker 3: This time five months later? That was great, but that
reasonable to not expect swelling five months after surgery.
Speaker 2: But how does this affect the overall, like the over
under of how many games you thought he was gonna
play coming into this.
Speaker 3: Well, last year he participated everything in training camp and
he's coming off the meniscus, and that was encouraging. It
was apparently one of the hardest training camps ever. Coach
who kept sus every year the two years.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was more pointed this year. I thought
they said.
Speaker 3: They've ran harder than ever and the year before that
law said that was an unseerious training camp compared to
what we just saw this past season in twenty twenty
three heading into the twenty three to twenty four season.
Speaker 2: But didn't they just say that this training camp was
like the hardest training camp ever?
Speaker 3: No what they would started yet there is no train
camp yet, there's.
Speaker 1: No training training camp. Okay, well, gold posts are moving now.
Speaker 3: Would you not feel better if they said Kawhi is
a participating fully in trading camp that now is all basking.
Speaker 2: No, it's a long season, better to start late.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, maybe you're right. I admire and this is
what it's about. Like I'm not. I still think there's
a real good chance. All this is about is a
guy who has been through injuries four straight years in
a row, and they are being so overly cautious with him,
as they should be, And there's still a great chance
he's going to be available opening night as long as
everything goes according to plan and his knee responds. That
his knee has to respond, well, nobody can predict it
because they don't know how his knee is going to
respond to training.
Speaker 1: That sound you hears me knocking on wood because again,
we've seen a couple of these movies. Not a fun ending.
I do like Will's point about, like, I don't know
if this does change the amount of games I thought
he would play. I would feel better obviously if he
was participating in camp. But I wonder because he's not
playing sixty five Again, anyone who thought that that would
be ambitious? Did you think that?
Speaker 3: Adam?
Speaker 2: I thought we were all on record saying there's no
way he plays as many games as he plays.
Speaker 3: Yeah, which was sixty eight. But I think we still felt, like,
you know, sixty plus games. We have thrown that out.
A ton of we can get from Kawhi.
Speaker 1: Fifty would be phenomenal, that would be great.
Speaker 3: Well, here's here's what I'm The number we kept throwing
out was if he's not playing any of the back
to backs, that already puts him at sixty six. So
then where do you go from there? And right now
it feels like there's a zero percent chance he's gonna
be playing back to backs because there's two right away.
Speaker 1: Oh, there's if he plays back to backs.
Speaker 3: So Lawrence Frank is being asked about that and he's like, yeah,
we're not projecting that yet until we know where he's
at and then we'll have a plan. It's just like,
I don't think he's playing back to backs, Like, what
are we talking about?
Speaker 1: He can't.
Speaker 3: Well, let's test it out with a back to back
in the first week of the season. Let's see how
it goes. Yeah, there's I think for for of their
first six games occur in a back to back fashion.
Speaker 2: Counterpoint, I start out the start out of the game
with the back to back. He got a lot of
time to pivot. You got a lot of time to react.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. October twenty six, twenty seventh, October thirty thirty
of them thirty first that's crazy.
Speaker 3: What I hope is when he is let's say he
makes it through all the drills and he goes through
all the hoops and checks all the boxes and training camp,
he can start faster than he did coming off the
A c L. Because remember how few minutes he was playing,
and at first he was coming off the bench. I
don't think he's coming off the bench anymore because he
said no, no, no, we killed that. That was just yeah,
that was that was tough deal. But what if he
just ramps up really slowly, and he's playing fifteen minutes
twenty minutes, not playing back to backs. You're getting Kawhi
in once a week. You know that that's probably not
out of the Roman possibility right now.
Speaker 1: I said that, I hope they somehow revolutionized load management
this year with Kawhi on this show, and I think
they have to, and so I expect, Yeah, I fully expect,
Like there's gonna be a bunch of weird stuff. We're
gonna the injury report is going to be very busy
this year, and we're never gonna know if it's serious
or not, or if it's to help out, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 2: Like James Harden's reportedly in the best shape of his life.
Speaker 1: Though that I'm lilove. We're definitely gonna talk about James
Harden and what they kind of talked about with the
offense and stuff. I'm very excited for James Harden. We
need him to be great given this Kawai news. So
we're gonna do an Updike fun check later. But any
last words on the Kawhi news from yesterday before we
get into starting spots being up for grabs, which kind
of made me flip out. Terrence Man extension talk and
some other stuff. Anything else left?
Speaker 2: Can you use a starter like an MLB closer?
Speaker 1: What do you mean? You know? Like why just plays
a few minutes every game?
Speaker 2: He doesn't start playing full game ofad minutes till after
the All Star break and then he plays full playoffs?
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Like, can you just only bring him in
for the second half? No? You still you.
Speaker 2: Still start him. It's kind of like bookends, so it's
not exactly like a closer. It's just the minutes load
of a closer.
Speaker 1: Game. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Wait, when he when KD was coming back from the Achilles,
didn't they try to play him in just second halves
with Steve Nash as the head coach. Didn't that happen
for a bit? It was like some real walky load
management stuff.
Speaker 1: Going on prior to the Achilles.
Speaker 3: No after in Brooklyn, Oh.
Speaker 1: Got you got you, gotcha.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure they tried to only play him only
in the first halfs or only in second half.
Speaker 1: It didn't work for that.
Speaker 3: I've opened to pretty much anything at this point. I
am and I would.
Speaker 2: Just start end of the first half, start second half,
end of the second half.
Speaker 3: I just would like to say, with so many people
being like, where's the transparency in this? And that it's like, guys,
they don't know how his knee is going to react,
so how can they project when he's going to be available?
Kawhi doesn't know how his knee is going to respond
to this stuff, so how could anyone else know? I
don't know. I I think that's asking a little a
little bit too much. Sometimes I understand it could be frustrating, but.
Speaker 2: The lack of transparency about the procedure I think is
pretty frustrating. But it's also I mean, that's KAUWHI like that.
You know, that's not a that's Kauhi Like I don't know.
Speaker 3: Also, what would it change?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: You could be mad soon now I have an exact date.
I think it's funny. So I think it's funny too,
because I feel like some of the reactions like like
to your point, Adam, of like what is it? Like
what would the what would knowing the exact date or
whatever help you do? I feel like there's this thing
with some people who watch the game or are a
fan of teams in general where they're like, oh, now,
I don't have to care or like I'm done with
this season, so it's like you kind of I feel
like sometimes I feel like sometimes people want maybe an
excuse to watch Less for whatever reason, to watch Less
or not watch it anymore. That there's a thing of like, oh,
like I'm not I don't even I'm done this year,
And you're like, hey, if you are done, weird, it sucks.
Don't switch teams. That feels weird and gross. But like
if you don't want to watch it, sound so fine,
Like he doesn't have to be the team specifically this season.
It's like, if you got in to watch a championship
attending team this season probably isn't gonna be very fun
for you, even if Kawi was fully healthy going into this.
But you know what I mean, Like I just feel
like there's sometimes there's just like I'm done with it.
I guess it's like that's fine, But but if this
is your first year to watch a championship team, you're
on the right boat.
Speaker 3: I feel like anyone that's that impulsive probably isn't actually
going to hold to that. But yeah, look, I think
it's reasonable to want I think it's reasonable and fair
to like you'd rather have the information when it happens,
And I totally get that part of it being frustrating,
like if it happened in May you want to know
and may I get all that you're you're paying customers
and stuff.
Speaker 2: But it's also not just Kawhi, like Yiannis does the same.
Speaker 3: Thing, like a lot of Yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 2: This is not exclusive to this organization.
Speaker 3: Ask Laker fans about Anthony Davis. Like, right, it's more
frequent because Kawhi, unfortunately it's been so injury probe, but
it's not that unusual, like Will is saying, when it
comes to superstars and there's this just abundance of transparency
and you know everything up to the minute of what
their body has been through. Like I don't think Laker
fans feel like that about Anthony Davis. I think they've
had been frustrated over the years, just like Clippers fans
have been with Kawhi. But yeah, I think it's more
about the new NBA and this is I guess unfortunate
for some people that really care about this stuff and
want to know exactly what they've been under and what
the procedure was and stuff like that. But it's unlikely
to happen in today's day and age.
Speaker 2: And also again, what does it change truly? Like what
does it change? Like you're gonna are you a he
was a fan, gonna send some tips based on the
date that this surgery happens, Like what, how does this
change anything?
Speaker 1: I had an eighty two game parlay set up before
the surgery. I'm ruined.
Speaker 2: Who's gonna sit his new and his body and like
when it's ready, like I mean, he'll be back.
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like it sucks, but like what do
you need to do? Welcome to hell again?
Speaker 3: Like it's gotten to the point where I understand that
people are like I'm just gonna operate, like Kawhi is
not there, and if he is there, great, but we're
going to just view this as o'll great. Yeah, We're
just gonna view it as I don't know James Harden's
team at this point or something. I get if people
are coming from that perspective because he's been unreliable with
his health. It's really unfortunate. It sucks for Kawhi. He's
one of the greatest players ever and he wants to play.
I he's one of my favorite players ever. I hate this.
I hate not being able to watch more of one
of the best players of our generation.
Speaker 1: We will close the segment out on I hate this.
Coming up, we are going It's fair. Coming up, we're
gonna be talking Terrence Man extension stuff, the defensive identity,
the fact that Terrence Man has to compete for a
starting spot, which hey, I don't know. Uh. If you're listening,
thank you for listening. If you're watching, we appreciate you
doing that as well. If you'd like to check us
out visually, it's YouTube dot com slash at Clippers podcast.
If you're listening, we got some ads coming up, and
then Tyler you talking. Three two, All right, we're back in.
Speaker 2: We've granted, we've raved about Kawhi and the latest sort
of injury news.
Speaker 1: Uh, don't hate let us, Let let.
Speaker 2: Us know your thoughts if you're If you're watching this
over on YouTube, you can do that comments section over
just at any time. But now we're gonna talk some
more stuff from this Lawrence Frank Presser.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: Probably most notably is the Terrence Man extension talks. Look,
whether Kawhi is good to go opening night or not,
we expect a bigger role out of Terrence Man this
this season with the absence of Paul George, and part
of that is obviously going to be how much is
Terrence Man gonna get paid? According to Lawrence Frank, they've
had ongoing discussions about this stension. Obviously, everybody wants to
get the deal done. They want Man to be with
the Clippers for a long time, so they're hopeful they
can do that done. They can get that done, but
there also might be competition for his starting spot. Where
are we out of here, Charles? This thing's running the gamut.
Speaker 1: I'm so confused by this situation. I'm starting Terrence Man
Contract Confusion Watch twenty twenty four on September twenty fifth.
You're welcome to join. I just to understand. First of all,
I think it's so it's between him and Kendrick Nunn
or not Kendrick Nune. Sorry, Chris Dunn.
Speaker 3: I do what you meant though. That's interesting work.
Speaker 1: I'm happy. Yeah, I'm so out of it from this
goddamn shot. So it's him and Chris Dunn competing for
the starting two spot, Adam, how do you feel about that?
Speaker 2: What would you have to see from Chris Dunn to
feel like, yeah, he should have the starting spot over Terrence.
Speaker 3: I think Norman Powell believes he's in the mix too
men defense and rebounding.
Speaker 1: Though right next to James Harden.
Speaker 3: He said that well, no, he said defense in I
believe was a three point shooting or taking outside shots,
taking shots which seem like what they say. The second
thing was an offensive thing, that's true. I think part
of it is dangling a carrot right before training camp
and getting guys competitive juices up and iron shopping and
iron all those things. However, I think it's real too, because.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's I believe it for sure.
Speaker 3: I just don't think it's crazy to feel like Chris
Dunn might be a better option than Terrence Man honestly,
and I love Terrence Man, but Chris Dunn, Like you
can make the argument he's a better point of attack defender.
Probably he is. Yeah, and his three point shooting over
the last year, he only took like one hundred and
thirty of them, but he shot like forty three. There's
he's a vet, he's a little bit older.
Speaker 1: I get the player comparison. How do you negotiate a
contract after what Terrence has gone through? With this, it
seems like a very razor thin wire, right, Like I
don't I don't really talk about either party, but I'm like,
it's just it's a weird spot to be it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think, like, yeah, I guess that is
kind of like a weird way to start a contract negotiation.
But I do see Adam's point, and I am with
that one hundred percent. With like what this team is
going to be running out this year, right, especially if
there's gonna be you know, large absences of Kawhi, Like
you're gonna have to go with whatever's working. So really
nothing should be guaranteed. So I think that it does
make sense for launch Frank and not come in and say, yes,
Terrence Man is one hundred percent guaranteed to be the start.
I suspect him to be the starter opening night. We'll
see how it goes from there. But with what we've
got to work with and the pieces that we have
to put together, yeah, no one is guaranteed, like outside
of James Harden and it beats the zobots. Is anybody
guaranteed anything? Like in this starting lineup, I don't.
Speaker 3: It's three guys, kawhis available, James.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's like, and so if you're Terrence again,
it's just more of the second.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's tough ship though, Like I give that
to Terrence. I like I I love Terrance too.
Speaker 1: But I could see leaving because he's like, we have
the data.
Speaker 2: Of Terrence as a starter with a different iteration of
this team. You know, we know what he can do.
But at the same time, like, nothing that can really
be given for this this say, it has to overachieve.
Speaker 1: I'm not thinking anything should be given to him. I'm
just saying it makes the contract negotiations so weird. They
mentioned he does have to shoot better for more threes
and rebound better because he's big for his position.
Speaker 2: Of the teams, like of the teams that would be
a threat for him to go to, though, I would
think the majority of them. If he's looking for, you know,
a team that's a contender, he's not looking at a starting.
Speaker 1: Spot, right, because then it comes out to does he
want to be a starter or does he want to
you know, go the the be a really great solid
backup backup point route two.
Speaker 3: You mentioned just weird, weird because you're trying to negotiate.
But here's the thing. And this could sound cold. If
he's not starting, how is he going to ask for
starters money? Like you could get misvalue this way, And
I don't think they're doing that intentionally. They seriously want
to see who is the best player at the two
spot next to James Harden. But it kind of makes
sense like you might be able to get him a
little bit cheaper. Look, look, if he's playing.
Speaker 1: Here because you can't start thirty.
Speaker 3: Last year from three, it's like if you wanted to
solidify the job and he shot over forty percent, then
maybe we wouldn't be talking about this, Like terres Man
has got off to two seasons the last two years
slow from three. Lawrence Frank addressed that part at the
press conference yesterday, like it's not his job to lose.
He hasn't played well enough to guarantee that he's still
like I and.
Speaker 1: It's been such a stable Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, they happen to bring in a really good guy
at point of attack defense too. It's not like he's
just competing with anyone. Chris Dunn doesn't things really well
that you would love to have next to James Harden.
Speaker 1: I don't think it'll be norm though that feels.
Speaker 3: I hope not, because I think that goes against the
identity part of this like and I love Norm coming
off the bench. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, for the team, Like I get Lubers do
generally have a very strong identity. It doesn't I mentioned that.
That's in the press or too. He was like, we're
going to have an identity this year, Like you like
made a point to it. I get it. It's just like, yeah,
it is over under.
Speaker 2: How many times do we talk about identity as a
story line in this next upcoming season. I would say
we probably did it fifty times last season.
Speaker 1: Two and a half because they said it immediately, and
we're gonna be so hyped.
Speaker 3: I don't expect. Well, let's let's say, how about does
a player mentioned if we have an identity this season,
which happens.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good call.
Speaker 3: And I don't think it's gonna happen because I think
it's gonna be pretty obvious from the get go.
Speaker 1: In a negative way.
Speaker 3: If they don't play, No, it's like, you guys don't
play defense on this team. If you're seventeen defensively this year,
you're gonna be getting killed. You're not you might be
out of the plane.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think Tyleru and Lawrence Shrank both mentioned like,
you guys gotta have pride and like you you know
you can only you can go as far as the
guys like mentality can cut. Like you need that mentality
to like do the little shit basically is what they
were saying, and they feel really good about that. With
Derek Jones Junior, who's in kind of approve it year,
He's on a very I think a pretty fair contract
and could get a really big one if he plays
well this Clippers team with Derek Jones Junior. After this
one's up, I got it. So it's not a proven year, no,
I mean, you know what I mean, Like in the
grand scheme of things, he could prove a lot for himself,
I guess, is what I mean. Because he's gonna be
guarding the point of attack. That was like and or
the hardest guy to guard, because Frank also mentioned that
Kauai want to have to do that when he's there.
Speaker 3: But he's not guaranteed his starting spot either.
Speaker 1: Right, I'm excited about his defensive I'm not saying he's
I didn't say anything about him starting. I just mean,
his defensive identity is going to be great for the team.
Speaker 3: It's like, well, how is he going to guard the
arts best player if he's not starting. I'm wondering, you
know what I mean? Like right, I think I think
he ends up being the starter. I get what you're saying.
I'm just I didn't think there'd be two spots open, basically.
I was surprised by that from coach lou. It wasn't
just one spot open. There's two spots open that guys
are competing for in the starting lineup.
Speaker 2: Well doesn't that make sense because we've said with Kawhi healthy,
there's three guys well.
Speaker 3: Have now but we all were kind of assuming Terrence
Man's Yeah, it's gonna be him, and now that's not
the case.
Speaker 1: That's fair. Yeah, I feel like they have to start
Derek Jones Jr.
Speaker 3: I think it probably will.
Speaker 1: Why would like his like his side, like where we
just need and we need defense if we're again defensive
identity wise, Yeah, he should probably be out there.
Speaker 3: That was your biggest off season acquisition. I mean, you
can say Patum, but we know what Patum brings and
they paid Derek Jones Junior, you know, over ten million dollars.
I think it's just a little over per year. So
and that's the guy who just guarded Paul George, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, he's not going anywhere. Who is competing.
I don't know. The Norm thing would be interesting if
it's hard Norm, because then you have three defensive guys,
but your point of attack defenses brutal.
Speaker 3: Unless, like, really, Norm is capable. We talked about this.
I think of the last show, Norman is more capable
than he has shown defensively, and that has been a
little bit frustrating at times. Does this finally get him
going on the defensive end, knowing he could be the
starter if he shows himself well there, maybe.
Speaker 1: But that I feel like that's such a hard transition
to make too from his style of play of like
this season, I'm gonna lock in on defense, like for
a guy like Norman's like, that would be cool, but
it seems very difficult. Will There's also there were some
other insect There are some other injuries that Lawrence Frank
talked about undisclosed. He was like, there's some guys.
Speaker 3: Who have knocks, minor stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to say who until the time is
appropriate or something to that effect.
Speaker 3: Maybe I'll find out, you know, first press conference of
training camp and whai who's available and who isn't. But
it said minor, right, I think that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know anything crazy. Yeah, I hope that lot.
Murray brought up some great stuff during the presser. One
of the things I liked. He tweeted this out. The
Clippers averaged five passes per game, fewer than the twenty
ninth ranked MAVs and two point one few were catching
three attempts than the twenty nine and seventy six ers.
Tyleru said, has been on their mind all summer. This
balance feels so hard to me because we had two
of the most efficient guys in ISO last year in
Kawhi and James Harden. We're gonna need to lean on
the James Harden ISO. Given what's happening, the balance between
the more passes in the ISO is gonna be really
interesting to see.
Speaker 3: He was asked that I think it was Rousseau who
asked him about trying to you know, I know, I
think it was toll Mayor. He brought up that, you know,
you guys had to the two top guys in isolation
and points per possession were number one Kawhi by a
pretty far margin and then number two James Harden. So
coach Lou described it as we have to advance the
ball and play faster. Like it's one thing if it's
late in the offense to give it to those guys
to go into their isolation and create and get us buckets.
But before that, if we can get easier shots from
the others by just playing a little bit faster out there,
that's the way to do it. Which I if you
can bridge those two things, then yeah, they're going to
be a top twelve, top thirteen offense.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And this goes to again with the starting lineup
with the spacing, because the pick and roll has to
be established and the spacing has to be there, and
the spacing is going to be real limited.
Speaker 3: That's why they need man to shoot. Like, that's why
that point I think is being made. You have to shoot,
and you mentioned the catch and shoot numbers, Like Coach
Slu emphasized how we've been such a good three point
shooting team, but we don't take enough of them, and
some of that sounded like by design over the years,
because they've said we're going to take the right ones,
but it still sounds like when you're turning down catch
and shoot threes, a lot of those are open shots.
Terrence Man notoriously the first month and a half two
months of the season, was shying away after he went
it too that slump. So whoever is playing that position,
he's got to put him up. It's the only way
to be a threat.
Speaker 1: And will you and I have talked about this, and
I think we've talked about on the show. If you
look at Terrence's per thirty six, like from when he
started getting like after like from twenty twenty to last year,
basically it's the same. Yeah, it's just the same like,
which is you obviously want that to be a little better.
You think what the field goal attempts actually went down
from twenty twenty three to twenty three twenty four, so
like the three point attempts absolutely need to creep up
higher than less than three.
Speaker 2: Yeah, two point Again, last year he was like in
and out of the starting lineup.
Speaker 1: It's difficult.
Speaker 2: It's one of those things that's a little difficult to
gauge because we've talked about this with zoobots before too.
Because I know a lot of people were frustrated that
that his growth hasn't been linear, you know, and there's.
Speaker 1: Been like incremental progress.
Speaker 2: There's been like you know, there's been you know, there
has been progress, but it hasn't you know, been.
Speaker 1: In a linear fashion.
Speaker 2: It's been like more incremental and Terrence one of those
things that's so difficult to judge is just the way
that he kind of gets swapped around, like evena even
last season.
Speaker 1: And now some of that is his own, you know,
is his own doing.
Speaker 2: That's that that that is his own fault passing up
good shots. But this team, like from three, I mean,
they were middle of the pack when they were their
most efficient, so it's it is kind of like it
is a function of their offense as well. But he definitely,
like unquestionably, has to take more, It has to be
better and has to take a pretty sizeable lead for
this team to make up for some of the offense
that they lost.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I'm looking at his rebound numbers too. He
averaged five boards a game in twenty one twenty two,
never been higher than three point six outside of that year.
He's gonna need to be at five or six like
they they again because Laurence Frank mentioned the rebounding in
that press conference, like he's gonna have to be.
Speaker 2: Cool with minutes, with his minutes. I would be shocked
if he wasn't at five or above.
Speaker 1: I really hope that because what we talked about him
needing to have the chunky stat line, We're like, dude,
you gotta be like you gotta be putting some like
crooked numbers up like every night, and so this is
our your believer.
Speaker 2: I'm smashing the over four point five on Terrence man
rebounds I got.
Speaker 1: I hope. So one more than last year per game
would be bear bear bear minimum borderline, borderline not good
enough because I love Terrence, but I want him to
have a clear, defined role, and part of that is
the team's being healthy. Part of that is him doing
what the clear defined role for this vision of the
Clippers is. We've seen the training footage, right, He's training
on the corner of threes, all that stuff. It seems
like he's putting the work.
Speaker 2: What was the quote like from the trainer on that, like, well,
you're all are taking seven.
Speaker 1: Seven drible combinations, which I love, I dude, I love.
I love Clint Parks's Twitter, I love everyone who hates
gimmicky trainers because they are ruining youth basketball.
Speaker 3: So there's another wrinkle and something Coach Lew said a
player he was effusive with his praise about yesterday at
the press conference. In fact, I will give you the quote,
Well I don't. I don't see it on the rundown, and.
Speaker 1: Maybe things on the rundown.
Speaker 3: I didn't want to jump a segment and I wasn't sure.
I've tried to make sure that I'm not jumping a
segment here, because I was pretty surprised by this when
I heard it yesterday, And Coach lu said, I won't
tell you the player yet, but he's quote. For us
to have success, he's gonna have to be a big
part of that. Can you guess who he was talking about?
Speaker 1: Is it Carl Tart's favorite player.
Speaker 3: John Wall J. Tucker?
Speaker 1: No, not PJ. Tucker. Is it someone in that vein
of like someone who could be like, why why are
you saying this because they're bad?
Speaker 3: It's someone else who could take away minutes from Terrence Mann.
Speaker 1: Is it Kevin Porter Jr?
Speaker 3: This it is? It was Kevin Porter Junior. Yeah, that
is a pretty significant quote for us to have success.
He's gonna have to be a big part of that.
He talked about how talented he is, how he's gonna
coach him hard, how he was making twenty million per
year at one point. Like, guys, if he's not, if
he doesn't get suspended to start the season, great, I
know that's a crazy caveat also, but he is going
to be in the mix for real, Like maybe we
jumped the gun. Maybe I jumped the gun when he.
Speaker 1: Just hasn't played. I don't think we've jumped the gun.
He hasn't played NBA basketball in quite some time. I
think it's totally fair to be like, he's got to
earn it because he hasn't played professional a very long time.
And I just.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm I'm dubious of the role that he's played
previously in his successful basketball career.
Speaker 1: Translating to what his role.
Speaker 3: Would be on it's fair. He was on a really
bad Rockets team. It's a lot. Yeah, it's really hard
to decipher exactly how good a guy is on that
bad of a team that's that young. Still, it's hard.
There's so many variables there. But it sounds like coach
lou is quite the fan and I did not expect
to hear that yesterday, and it started to make me
think about that redditor who is like he's gonna end
up being the starting shooting guard.
Speaker 1: None of us should ever think about any editors. That
should not be in your brain. I just need to
get back to eating more.
Speaker 3: Call the possibility of Kevin Porter Junior really making a
much more substantial impact this season.
Speaker 1: I think we've all said we'll see, Like it's just again,
we don't know. There's gonna be an investigation. Your excuse me, Like,
I just I'll believe it when I see it.
Speaker 2: I guess I'm not ruling it now like he has
you know, he has talent. Again, I'm just I'm I
don't know that I'm immediately seeing the fit.
Speaker 1: Norm would fit. I think Norm fits if we were
gonna go that route just because he's played with the
team before, Because Kevin Porter Junior gonna be good enough
off ball.
Speaker 2: Like, I gotta be honest with you, I don't even
know how well it'll work in lineups when it's Kevin
Porter Junior and Norm.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, but that.
Speaker 1: Seems like it's gonna be a nightmare. I think I
haven't even you know, we're gonna see it and it's
gonna suck. Here's what I'm saying. We start three guards
because James, you got norm you got Terrence, you got
Kawhi and Zoo or Nico and Zoo to open the season.
Speaker 3: Most likely so Kevin Porter Junior's defensive rating, which is
an extremely flawed stat for individuals because it's dependent on
the team. But the last year team, the last year
with the Houston Rockets, it was like one nineteen. But
with the clips, I think he actually projects to be
a better defender than people realize because of his size.
If you get him to buy in and we just
have no idea what he could do on a team
that is, you know, actually trying to make the playoff,
Well there is out there, can you know. Here's the thing.
People have overrid some stuff with him, like the fifty
point game he had and they say he had it
on Drew Holiday for Milwaukee Bucks. I went back and
watched that tape. He hit ten threes, he got really
hot from the outside wright most of it was not
on the holiday, and the Bucks were playing some pretty
miserable defense in that game. By the way, I don't
know if they were on a back to back or what,
but it would be not a.
Speaker 1: Great At fifty points, that was a great performance.
Speaker 3: I don't want to take anything away from him, but
I don't want to put everything into a fifty point
performance quote unquote against Drew Holliday when it really wasn't
like when you watch the tape. So it's like, you know,
there's some stuff that I'm like. Offensively, maybe he's not
as great as some people try to make him out
to be, but defensively, actually he might be better than
the way some people are talking about his defense because
he was on such a bad team with Houston.
Speaker 1: I don't know, did we already run this down?
Speaker 2: And from an efficiency standpoint, he's like below average everywhere.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say. Adam's argument goes back to Will's
who knows could be from the Kawhi, which is fair
because we again the hard hitting analysis, there's too many
the unknowns. As I read him, it's like there's we
still again he hasn't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but what we know is coach los a fan
now and coach Lou says if they're going to have
success this season, basically he's gonna have to be a
big part of it. That's what you're saying.
Speaker 1: He might have said the same thing about John Wall
at some point too.
Speaker 2: All Right, they're going to have success this year, basically
everyone has to be a big part of it.
Speaker 1: Also a good point, and no one can be like
bad this year. Who gets substantial minutes on the Clippers
overtly bad? Like no one.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just much more of a committee, much
much more of a committee team. Not completely by committee
because there are still some some high ceiling standout guys,
but all hands on deck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, more than years.
Speaker 3: This is not a team that can just go out
there and overwhelm you with talent at times. They have
to be a tight knit group that jails really well
and the whole is greater than the some of its parts, right,
it just has to be. They have to elem bade
each other.
Speaker 1: They gotta do. And that's I mean, we talked about
this a couple of weeks ago. That's why I love
the James Harden training camp pre training camp stuff and
first full training camp with the Clippers for James Harden,
which is fantastic.
Speaker 3: It's starting to feel like more of a James Harden
team to me. Right now than Kawhi, because I just
don't know how you can rely on him. And James
has been pretty reliable overall in his career and he
is such a just Yeah, when you're a system and
you're on the court more often, it's like I, I
guess it's really going to depend on how James Harden
looks out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great that's a great point, Adam, And
I do think that that is I don't think that
that's a negative.
Speaker 1: You know, Like I.
Speaker 2: As great as Kawhi is and as efficient as he
is and everything, he can't run an offense in the
same way that James Harden can by doesign I think
it's actually a really great starting point to be obviously
better if Kawhis is good to go game one, but
if if you're already in the mode of okay, like
this is what everything runs through, like this is the
guy who dictates the flow of the offense and how
everything goes, I think it's a good spot to be
in versus sort of like a we'll figure it out
when we're on the court, or oh it's your turn, now,
it's my turn. No, it's my turn always, And you know,
I'm gonna get you.
Speaker 1: Bespond say, well, like, I'm going to get you.
Speaker 2: Into the spots that you're the most efficient at that
are good for you obviously, but like I run the
show that like I I the keys are in my hands.
Speaker 1: They talked about the what do they talk about the
pecking order or the hierarchy. Tyler was like, oh, there's
a higher like you're we're gonna know what the hierarchy
is or something like.
Speaker 3: That, Frank, But I think it was also like, there's
no there's no Paul George, so there's no talking about
who's the second best player on this team. And to
Will's point, it's like you already know, and this is encouraging.
What's your foundation and identity is on offense? There is
a system there built in and you're starting from here
and most nights you're hoping if you have this guy,
you at least have a true game plan that everybody's
going to be in tune with on that end, because
he's run on the show and making the trains run
on time, like that's James Harden and he is proven.
Speaker 2: And running the offense more of a floor raizer than
either Kowhir or Paul George like for everyone around them.
So that is I mean, it's nice.
Speaker 1: Whoa guys I.
Speaker 3: Think last segment I wasn't so sure.
Speaker 1: But well, and he's going to be I mean, he's
going to have what I'm assuming, a huge voice on
who is going to be next to him in the
back court.
Speaker 3: That's a good point too.
Speaker 1: As he should given him out of total minutes that
he's had. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Do you think that he would have something to say
about Terrence.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Oh, I think he does. Yeah, what do you I
don't think there's any way coach Leu would not ask
for input from James Harden when they were talking. Oh,
last season and that was part of the reason I
think James Harden was so excited to come to the Clippers.
Speaker 2: Where do I think his head's at though, Like, what
do you think he's looking for?
Speaker 3: Okay, so Terrence Man started seventy one games last year
next to him. Is there enough comfortability there? Does he
attribute Terrence Man to being a part of why they
went twenty six and five and how he did so
many the little things and he's a nice fit or
does he have any experience with Chris Dunn, who I'm
looking at, is like, Okay, he never played with him
in any capacity I know of, unless you know, he's
too young of a player to play with him in
AAAU or anything. So I don't. I don't know. I
would like I think. I think Terrence Man is the
inside track to winning the starting two job. I do.
I also think Chris Dunn could get it.
Speaker 2: But I do think that, you know, going back to
Terrence's shooting thing, like his efficiency and his willingness to
take threes could swing James Harden's mind because as much
as he can do and as much as he will
have to score more on this team the way it's
set up, anybody who can lighten that load, I think
that he is going to be He's going to be
eager to have next to him as a running mate.
And so Terrence Man can do what we know he
can do defensively, we know all the connection kind of
things he can do, the rebounding defensively. But if he
can make things a little bit easier for James offensively,
I would feel pretty good about him being on the
inside track to holding down that spot.
Speaker 1: This is I don't know how much we stock we
put into this the James Harden Terrence Man net rating
together just that two Man lneup plus four point six,
so not lighting it up. It's obviously a huge sample size.
It's one of the larger ones for minutes. What about
those two plus zero three Man?
Speaker 3: The one thing I'd say for how James Harden could
be analyzing this is I wonder how many of those
times did he find Terrence Man and see him turn
down a three pointer? And that frustrated him last year.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the thing.
Speaker 2: I don't think he's gonna have a lot of I
don't think he's gonna have a.
Speaker 1: Lot of patience for that plus three point six those three.
Speaker 3: The other factor I think, though, is.
Speaker 1: He's breaking the team down. Guys, we're not starting that.
Speaker 3: I think I certainly maybe have I don't want to
say overlooked, but I forget about Chris Dunn sometimes and
what a big factor he could be for this team.
And I never really considered him because I just kind
of maybe I was hoping too much for Terrence Man
to be the guy and just have some stability there,
and no, he finally has his role. And I understand that,
but there's a real argument to be made that Chris
Dunn is the better ball handler, the better initiator on offense.
This is someone who has averaged five assists per game
a few different times in his career. Man has never
done that.
Speaker 2: Have like two high level passing guys who exactly are
they getting the ball to?
Speaker 3: But what I'm wondering is does James Harden feel like
this takes a little bit of the burden off me
when I don't want to have to bring the ball
up every single time?
Speaker 1: And you can have Harden can i mean obviously shoot
the ship out of the ball, but.
Speaker 3: He has turned down catch and shoot himself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, and well and then done. You
talk about an adjustment to his game, he's going to
have to take a lot more threes. Yeah. He averages
less than two for his career per game, So it
would be that'd be a big if he could show
that he could. I mean, I'm very excited for him
to be on this team, but that, you know, talk
about someone has to make an adjustment with shooting threes.
Speaker 3: That's a good point. That's a good point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, two point six is the most he's ever taken.
Speaker 3: What you want is someone right in between Chris Dunn
and Terrence Man. Actually that would be the perfect place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, overall, I don't know, it's gonna be interesting.
There's a lot of question marks, which if you're a
sick oh, I think is fun. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think that's a real battle camp for the two spot.
Speaker 1: It's I mean and the free right.
Speaker 2: I'm also curious to see, like because we know, like
sort of a cliche of you know, one of the
things you could nitpick Tyloo about is like some of
the sample size stuff. Maybe the ten games simple size
is just way too long for certain things. I'm curious
to see, you know, Like, you know, with us all
agreeing that things are a little bit more of a
bi committee thing, this team is is going to have
to find and run with what's working. How that's going
to change his approach to some of these rotations, h
in some of these minutes, because if something isn't working,
you don't have the luck of you know, having Kawhi
and Paul George sort of like lift stuff up or
help get you through something isn't working, It's gonna be
pretty apparent and you're gonna have to find something that
it is working really really fast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, cycle that shit out.
Speaker 3: I guess when I think about the three spot, the
only reason I think like Derek Jones Junior is pretty
close to his shoe is because it's either him a
mere coffee or Terrence Man or they move Kawhi back
to the three because they're playing someone else at the floor.
But I don't see that guy in the roster right
now because I don't think button it's gonna start.
Speaker 1: Well, you can't see Kaid Joe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, buddy, here they come.
Speaker 1: Future so bright, dude, Future is so right now? That yeah,
like that, that's a good point. They're a little for
what a starting five for a team that again has
no interest in losing games or benefit to get you know,
a pick or anything. You kind of got to start there.
Speaker 3: What if Terrence Man and Chris Dunn performed so well
in their battle and training camp and Derreck Jones Jr.
Was just all right and he's like all right, Chris
done at the two? Terrence Bean at the three? Is
that crazy?
Speaker 2: That'd be weird insane? It just again depends on.
Speaker 3: All but man, can I mean he guards up a lot, yes,
like it is guarding Luca, Like Luca's as a big boy.
Speaker 1: The offense would be crazy, doesn't good? Would?
Speaker 2: That's what I'm questioning though, too, is like how well
does Harden and Done really work together?
Speaker 3: As Yeah, don can play honor off ball though, Like
I'm saying, you got options with Chris Done.
Speaker 2: You really never taken one of two point six threes
a game first season?
Speaker 1: How does that work?
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, that there is something to that. He
gets to the ram. He's got a good floater, but
he has to take more threes and maybe simple is
as much as we harp on Terrence Man about not
taking enough three's, it's like, well what about Chris Dune taking?
Maybe it's that easy, and so maybe Terrence terres Man
is the inside track he does.
Speaker 1: It's just a three point camp. Is just gonna be
them shooting one hundred and fifty three pointers a day
as fast as they can and does it the fastest
and as the best percentage.
Speaker 2: I just don't see it working like actually, I mean
defensively it's awful, but like norm to me makes more
sense than Chris Done.
Speaker 3: Because of the defensive thing. I can't get there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know the defense. There's way better off ball.
Speaker 3: Though he is, But the defense would get so shredded
with those two on the perimeter. I just unless Norm
shows something, which he could.
Speaker 1: I don't. We'll see he makes he makes a Robin
Lopez type pivot in his career, because I like the.
Speaker 2: Clippers are wont to do during this season and redefining
the identity.
Speaker 3: I mean, what makes the most sense. Terre's man had
the two and Chris done running the second year at
the one, right, that's like the most conventional wisdom. Yeah,
and let's get Pj's involved now. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean that's a fair, that's a that question mark
is larger or smaller. I don't know what.
Speaker 3: Bolts was also mentioned.
Speaker 1: Bones still a team, PJ. Tucker is still on the team.
We didn't even talk about him starting next to Zoo.
Speaker 3: PJ was talked about when they mentioned fours when Mars
Frank was going through I think the.
Speaker 1: Fault they have to he has played before.
Speaker 3: He has started a must win game.
Speaker 1: Yeah, things were going pretty good back then. All right,
coming up, we're closing out the episode with a classic segment,
which if you've been listening to us, you've heard before
and you've probably been like, where the heck is it.
And if you're new, it's called the Updyke fun Check.
It's a very fun time. Uh. If you're listening to us,
there's going to be an advocate. If you're watching, thanks,
we're still here. You get to see us for a
couple extra seconds. We got ads coming up, and then
an Updyke fun check and then a special piece of
content and three two.
Speaker 3: Welcome back in. It's clips and dip. I'm outa maas
and we got Chuck Mockler and Will Updyke here. It's
gonna be with you guys season three here on the show.
And while I wasn't here when this segment was born,
when something was born out of this segment, I am
a fan of it. I gotta tell you that much.
And it is called the Will Updyke fun Check. Which
is a really interesting question right about now, with everything
going on with this team, if there was ever a
time for this bad boy to be on the rundown
beautifully put together by Chuck Mockler.
Speaker 2: Now, I gotta be honest, fellas, I'm a one point
three glasses of wine in but U through this conversation.
Speaker 1: It started out real low.
Speaker 2: There's so many question marks with this team that I
think it's pretty fun.
Speaker 3: There's a lot to talk about it might like, I.
Speaker 1: Mean, obviously it's our year, so it will translate to.
Speaker 2: Winning bast well, but I think that's I think it's
pretty interesting. I think it's pretty interesting, and especially when
you take off the burden of certain expectations and the
team being so sort of like hammered into ways that
they were trying to play despite not having an identity,
you know what I mean, what certain voices in the
locker room thought the team needed versus what the front
office thought they needed, and they were like really trying
to ram a square peg into a into.
Speaker 1: A round hole. This is.
Speaker 2: This just feels more fluid than me. It feels it
feels interesting. I'm not gonna say good, sure, but it's
interesting for sure.
Speaker 1: I like your point about it being interesting. It's a
lot more interesting being a team that isn't some would say,
favored to win a championship and have question marks because
when you don't have to be favored for it to
be your year. Very true, because when you're a championship
team and people are like, well, who the hell's playing
the four? Who the hell's back up five, you're like, Wow,
this is a lot more pressure. We really got to
get the ship figured out. This is like, hey, maybe
Ky Jones is good. There's a sicko element to it
that there is. I'm seeing the threat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is so scale one to ten. This is
like a This is a team that's fun to me.
But it's like the kind of team where if your
coworker asks you how the Clippers are doing, you got
to rain yourself in because you're not to go on
five hundred insane tangents that no one cares about, so
you got to you gotta rate it in. But that's
exciting to me as a fan.
Speaker 1: Like Adam was yelling at me at the water cooler
about vorp, I don't know what I have. So scale
one Chris Dunn character scale, will scale scale A one
to ten, your fun level ten being a carnival one
being hour two of a Zoom meeting. Five being the.
Speaker 2: I'm at like seven five like a carnival ride, but
a fun one, not one where you have to go
upside down.
Speaker 1: It's too tricky. Okay, Adam, what's your fun level?
Speaker 3: Honestly, I'm with Will, like we talked ourselves into this
being a really possitive episode somehow when it started off
in a brutal.
Speaker 2: Kind of fun right, there is some interesting things, is shit?
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 3: I can't stop thinking about now Chris Dudd and kp
J and like having so many guards and a real
possibility now of having new starters like what I we
don't know what.
Speaker 1: This team looks like.
Speaker 3: Like that's exciting possibilities.
Speaker 1: I am so excited to see the people who are
not excited about this team react to the transition we
go through in this episode because I started it low
for a reason, because I was low, and you guys
match the energy because it was a tough cup it
was a tough thirty six hours or whatever. Yeah, I'm
right there with you, guys. There's a bunch of random
players you can choose. There's some great fan favorite you're
gonna be like I thought, like, there's gonna be it's
gonna be such a weird year, which I think we've
talked about before on this show. It's gonna be a
super weird year. It's gonna test some people's patience on
how much about the Clippers they'd like to learn. They
still love them, but how much you really want to
learn about this Clippers team this year. Yeah, there's there's
question marks in the starting lineup ewhere. Yeah, I'm fired
up for some lunacy.
Speaker 3: To underscore just the variance that it could be with
this team, good or bad wins losses. Somebody responded to
a video earlier and said they're winning thirty five games
at best, and I said, of course, underneath it, I'm
saving this, and he was like, go ahead, save it.
They only won forty five games last year. Year was like, dude,
they won fifty one, so it was like they could
win ten less years. Anyways, Then I thought, after I
said I'm gonna save this, I was like, damn it,
what if he's right?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: Like, it's not that crazy. I guess like it could
be between thirty five and forty five wins somewhere in there.
Speaker 1: I don't know. You got Adam questioning receipts. You know
it's going to be a fun year, dude, forty two wins, right?
Two forty three wins for it.
Speaker 3: To be over under Was it forty or forty one?
Speaker 2: It was like forty I think, oh I thought it
was lower than.
Speaker 1: That for some reason.
Speaker 3: Was it thirty nine and a half?
Speaker 1: I thought it was that. It might have been. I
thought it was look at that stuff.
Speaker 3: But that's when they thought they were trading PJ.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Adam's the gambler. Yeah right, I mean, well with
the PJ bump again. Back to my eight or two
game parlay that has completely derailed. Now, okay, we got
to close out with one of the weirdest pieces of
Clippers related content I've ever seen in my life. Just
I'm gonna share the screen. Uh it is. The longer
you look at it, just the more confusing it is.
I missed this part. So it's a TikTok trend where
people dance in a circle, but they're doing it with
people who are the Kawhi guy kind of looks like
Kawhi I guess. But they're wearing current jerseys and also
a jersey that says h player twenty zoo the Zoo one.
It's horrible at all.
Speaker 3: I thought the guy wearing twenty two or fifty five
for a second might have been cam. Just when it
first clicked on, I was like, Oh, this isn't real.
Never mind, this is why did they put so much
production into this. They paid for all these jersey, They
paid for.
Speaker 1: These jerseys had them. Being a real fan, I have
a number twenty five player jersey horrifying.
Speaker 3: But I missed the Harlem shake right about now, just so.
Speaker 1: Bring that back.
Speaker 3: Just some of the weirdest style whatever.
Speaker 1: Just one of the more up there with Remember the
deep fake Kawhi gif from like four or five years ago.
This is the one I round locked on. There was
a there's the gift of Kawhi doing the thumbs up right,
you know what I'm talking about. Someone made like a
deep fake of themselves overs Kawhi's face, and that was
being used a bunch because people. But I remember that's
up there into the weirdest pieces of content. Okay, we
have to get out of here. I'm full of so
much hope. I have to go shout it from the rooftops.
Speaker 3: We're gonna go two hours. I didn't mean to, like.
Speaker 1: I don't want to go two hours. We're gonna be
back next week with a preseason game preview. There is
Clippers basketball next week.
Speaker 3: I think we're gonna have the radio broadcast of it.
Speaker 1: There we go. We're probably gonna be doing a live
after it on Friday night. We're gonna do probably a
preview app and then a live hang which will be
very fun. Well, where can people now that they are
also come completely on board with how fun this season
is going to be? Uh listen to us tell their
coworkers after they've talked way too much about uh DJJ
and how often he guarded the point of attack last year?
Where can they tell people listen to our show?
Speaker 2: Yeah, for a good time. You can listen to this
show anywhere you get your podcasts. You can also watch
it over on YouTube. That's YouTube that comps last at
Clippers podcast. If you happen to watch over on YouTube.
If you subscribe, maybe talle on some notifications that'd be great.
You can leave a comment at any time, Yeah, you can.
You can subscribe to us though wherever you get the podcast.
Speaker 1: If you happen to listen over on Spotify or Apple podcasts, leave.
Speaker 2: Us little rain and review. Definitely help us out. But however,
you know, however.
Speaker 1: You consume this show, we appreciate you. We really do.
An Adam, I don't know if there's any more positivity
to be said, but one positive thing to send these
Clippers fans out to close their week out with only
one only one?
Speaker 3: What have we already mentioned here. My god, I we've
barely talked about. I truly think they're being overly cautious
with Kawhi, as they should be. And when I hear
the swelling is almost gone, it is. It's encouraging.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 3: I don't know how else they should handle this than
the way that they have so far. I don't know
any better way to do it. Like this is the best,
best opportunity. They're giving him all the best chances in
the world to be able to play opening night. We'll
see out in the knee responds. But I would not
push anything in training camp either. There's really no reason too.
He's a VET, he's thirty three years of age. I
don't know if he's going to learn anything in training camp.
It'd be nice, but I'm okay with it. Just get
him healthy.
Speaker 1: There we go. Just get him healthy. We'll be back
next week with real basketball to talk about both beforehand
out of the game. Thank you for hanging out, and
as always, let's go Clips