WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.520 Before we dive in, here's another show you can enjoy 2 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:05.559 in the true Story FM family of entertainment podcast. 3 00:00:08.519 --> 00:00:12.800 What's Up, Supernatural super Fans. I'm Christy Lenz and I'm 4 00:00:12.919 --> 00:00:17.760 Nate mcgarter, and we're the host of Gang Gang That Dream, 5 00:00:20.359 --> 00:00:23.160 a supernatural drinking game podcast. 6 00:00:26.120 --> 00:00:28.800 It's the podcast where we make up drinking game rules 7 00:00:29.079 --> 00:00:32.200 for our favorite episode of our favorite show, Supernatural. 8 00:00:32.479 --> 00:00:34.719 We recap the episode for you and let you know 9 00:00:34.759 --> 00:00:36.399 how all the rules played out. 10 00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:38.479 Then we let you know the drinking game rules for 11 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:40.719 the next episode so you can play along. 12 00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:45.600 Plus members get every episode early and ad free. 13 00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:47.759 With some extra bonus content chit chat at the end 14 00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:49.840 of each episode as a member exclusive. 15 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:53.679 So download Gank That Drink, a supernatural drinking game podcast 16 00:00:53.719 --> 00:00:56.960 wherever the finest podcasts are available, and. 17 00:00:57.079 --> 00:01:00.640 Or become a member at true story dot fmh Gank 18 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:01.240 that Drink. 19 00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:03.719 And when you're out there in the world saving people and. 20 00:01:03.719 --> 00:01:06.959 Hunting things, you know the family business. 21 00:01:06.760 --> 00:01:09.799 Keep the Gank that Drink motto in mind, be excellent 22 00:01:09.840 --> 00:01:11.920 to each other and party ar. 23 00:01:12.799 --> 00:01:23.920 Dudes ever wondered what happens when a zoomer who grew 24 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:24.799 up on the Clone. 25 00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:28.239 Wars millennial Anakin Defender and a grumpy old gen xer 26 00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:30.079 walking to a canteen and at talk Star Wars. 27 00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:31.959 Then we've got the podcast for you. 28 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:34.640 Star Wars Generations is a place for fans of all 29 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:37.079 backgrounds to come together talk about what we love the 30 00:01:37.120 --> 00:01:39.319 franchise and what we can learn from each other. 31 00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:42.120 With so much new Star Wars content coming out, we 32 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:44.200 take a deep dive into all of it. We talk 33 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:46.599 stories and characters, what we learn about the Force and 34 00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:49.959 the Empire, Republics old and new, and how each story 35 00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:51.200 adds to the larger picture. 36 00:01:52.439 --> 00:01:55.599 Besides episode by episode coverage of the new shows, we've 37 00:01:55.640 --> 00:01:56.959 been going back to watch. 38 00:01:56.760 --> 00:01:58.000 The movies and release order. 39 00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:01.719 We talk about Star Wars not and video games, along 40 00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:03.319 with fam content and cosplay. 41 00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:06.920 And with each episode we're just starting the conversation and 42 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:09.360 we hope you jump in. We'll read your feedback and 43 00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:12.840 answer your questions. We've had full episodes dedicated to questions 44 00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:14.319 raised by listeners like you. 45 00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:17.319 You can find us under Star Wars Generations on your 46 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:20.599 favorite podcast app or by going to Theethicalpana dot com. 47 00:02:20.759 --> 00:02:21.560 May the Force be. 48 00:02:21.639 --> 00:02:25.400 With you now, This is podcasting. 49 00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:38.199 Hello, Welcome back to Superhero ethics. We are primarily on 50 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:41.000 hiatus in part because I have just become a father 51 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:43.759 within five days of us recording this. We just came 52 00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:46.039 home with my new baby yesterday and we have lots 53 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:48.080 of family around, and I figured I needed to go 54 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:50.719 see this new Superman movie so that I can talk 55 00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:53.599 to you some wonderful people, Jessica Plumber and Riki Hayashi 56 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:57.120 about it. So we are still someone on hiatus with 57 00:02:57.159 --> 00:02:59.439 this podcast, but we wanted to make sure we got 58 00:02:59.479 --> 00:03:03.680 to talk to you a Superman because something has happened 59 00:03:03.680 --> 00:03:06.000 that I didn't think was gonna happen. Jessica Plumber, I 60 00:03:06.039 --> 00:03:08.280 think I really liked the Superman movie that I didn't 61 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:09.159 see as a little kid. 62 00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:10.639 It's a miracle. 63 00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:15.240 I really love this version of Superman, and we're gonna 64 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:17.680 talk about it. This isn't a movie review podcast. It's 65 00:03:17.680 --> 00:03:20.120 an etex podcast. This movie has a lot of great 66 00:03:20.120 --> 00:03:23.360 ethical questions to discuss about, completely hypothetical and some that 67 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:25.879 are real world parallels. But let's you kind of start with. 68 00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:28.400 For you, Jessica, you're not even a fan of the 69 00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:30.960 Crystal Reeve movies the way I am. 70 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:33.719 How did you? How did you like this movie? 71 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:36.280 I you're right. 72 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:36.680 I have. 73 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:41.680 Never seen a Superman movie that I thought was a 74 00:03:41.759 --> 00:03:45.560 good movie. I've seen many good Superman actors, but I've 75 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:48.199 never seen what I thought was a good Superman movie 76 00:03:49.159 --> 00:03:52.960 until now. I loved it. I thought it was wonderful. 77 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:57.360 I walked out of that theater just so happy and 78 00:03:57.520 --> 00:04:05.520 just feeling so upbeat and joyous, and I thought I 79 00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:07.159 was gonna like it, but I didn't realize I was 80 00:04:07.159 --> 00:04:09.919 gonna like it this much. And I've just been riding 81 00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:10.879 that high ever since. 82 00:04:11.639 --> 00:04:13.639 That's awesome. That's awesome, Riky, What about yourself? 83 00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:17.439 So a lot of people have been doing the whole 84 00:04:17.519 --> 00:04:20.240 ranking thing. Is this the best Superman movie, Is this 85 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:22.959 the best Superman portrayal. 86 00:04:22.439 --> 00:04:25.839 Et cetera. These movies are like. 87 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:29.360 Talking about Christopher Reeves Superman. These movies are almost fifty 88 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:33.879 years apart, like literally a lifetime, and so it's very 89 00:04:33.879 --> 00:04:37.120 hard to compare. But I think in terms of impact 90 00:04:37.959 --> 00:04:44.120 and meeting the moment of society, they are both perfect 91 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:47.480 for the time that they were created. Like that's my opinion. 92 00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:50.399 Like I don't know how to rank or compare things 93 00:04:50.439 --> 00:04:53.120 that are fifty years apart in terms of movies, Like 94 00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:56.279 just everything is different about the industry, how movies are made, 95 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:59.879 how we perceive them. But for like what we needed 96 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:05.199 from the Superman character, this in twenty twenty five is 97 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:08.600 just perfect, just as it was in nineteen seventy eight. 98 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:09.839 That's how I feel. 99 00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:12.480 I think that really works. And I'll say I went 100 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:14.879 back and rewatched the Christopher Reeves the first the Christopher 101 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:17.120 Reeves movies. But I've seen all three of them pretty recently. Well, 102 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:22.560 I say all four. I've always technically a fourth, but. 103 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:22.319 Four is better than three. 104 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:27.079 I love three in a It's awful and campy, but 105 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:30.360 really a lot of fun. Kind of a way less 106 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:32.160 said about that the better. Perhaps it's kind of like 107 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:35.920 the rocky horror of Superman movies as a terrible commerce, 108 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:38.199 but you know what I mean. And I will say 109 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:41.560 I have recently watching what I think is some of 110 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:44.319 the best superhero content I've ever seen, and certainly the 111 00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:48.639 most emotionally intelligent show where the characters have the highest 112 00:05:48.680 --> 00:05:51.839 level of emotional intelligence I've ever seen on television, which 113 00:05:51.879 --> 00:05:55.319 is Superman and Lois So the last the CW shows 114 00:05:55.319 --> 00:05:57.920 that sanded a year ago. That show is amazing. I 115 00:05:57.959 --> 00:06:01.959 love that version of Superman. Superman and lois in their 116 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:07.199 like late thirties forties, raising two teenagers in Smallville, and like, 117 00:06:07.399 --> 00:06:12.199 it's fantastic, and I really love this version of Superman 118 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:15.600 as well. It had hopeful to me more than anything. 119 00:06:15.639 --> 00:06:18.879 And I'm I'm gonna try and make this a comparison 120 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:24.480 of difference, not of better or worse. I am glad 121 00:06:24.480 --> 00:06:26.800 that Man of Steel is a movie that everyone that 122 00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:30.839 a lot of people really love. To me, it made 123 00:06:30.839 --> 00:06:34.639 me realize what even that title feels wrong because in 124 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:39.759 this movie, for me, his fighting ability, his being superhumanly strong, 125 00:06:39.839 --> 00:06:42.759 he's being a man of Steel is probably the least 126 00:06:42.839 --> 00:06:46.600 important thing about him. It's his hopefulness, it's his goodness, 127 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:50.560 it's his as someone who grew up in punk rock scenes. 128 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:52.839 He is not punk rock, but he thinks he is. 129 00:06:53.279 --> 00:06:54.680 And you know, there used to be a T shirt 130 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:57.079 that said falling in Love is totally punk rock, and 131 00:06:57.439 --> 00:06:59.480 now it's being nice as totally punk rock, and that 132 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:00.600 I can to agree with. 133 00:07:00.759 --> 00:07:04.040 And I just it just was really hopeful, you know. 134 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:06.000 And Jessica, to me, this was the movie you'd always 135 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:09.519 told me about about like Superman being the antithesis of 136 00:07:09.639 --> 00:07:11.040 the grim Dark and all that. 137 00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:14.319 Yeah, it really like I want to take everybody to 138 00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:17.040 the theater and point at the screen and be like this, 139 00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:19.759 this is the guy. This is why I love him 140 00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:22.079 so much. Like I feel I'm like proud, I'm like 141 00:07:22.439 --> 00:07:24.600 I loved him hard enough that this movie got me. 142 00:07:24.759 --> 00:07:25.360 Big job me. 143 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:27.560 Yeah. 144 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:31.399 Yeah, And I think a Man of Steel, like that 145 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:36.879 title of Superman is fine. But to me, the contrast 146 00:07:37.079 --> 00:07:40.959 is that in that movie Man of Steel, that embodies 147 00:07:41.079 --> 00:07:44.639 power and especially like punching power right, like the he 148 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:47.920 and zad are just like constantly punching each other through buildings. 149 00:07:48.519 --> 00:07:50.720 And in this movie, I don't even know if they 150 00:07:50.800 --> 00:07:53.000 use the phrase man of Steel, but if I were 151 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:56.319 to try to embody what that phrase means to this Superman, 152 00:07:56.759 --> 00:07:59.959 it is his ability to shield people, to use his 153 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:01.519 man of Steel body. 154 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:04.000 To protect Yeah. 155 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:06.240 Yeah, no, I think I think it makes sense. 156 00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:10.240 And for me also, it's the we're gonna get it 157 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:12.160 into spoilers. We probably always had some spoilers, but this 158 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:14.399 is not a spoiler free discussion. We're gonna talking a 159 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:17.560 lot about the details. I love that a number not 160 00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:23.560 only does he on numerous occasions rescue people and save 161 00:08:23.639 --> 00:08:25.920 people and save us like not even a dog, a 162 00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:29.800 squirrel for God's sakes, but he inspires others to do so, 163 00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:31.319 you know. And the fact that by the end the 164 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:35.360 Justice Gang are going in and are saving people, like 165 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:39.960 they're still literally killing people, including you know, Net and 166 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:42.240 Putin as I've been referring to the Dictator character in 167 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:46.799 this movie, uh, you know, and like that they're not inspired. 168 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:48.240 He's not inspiring them in that way, and I think 169 00:08:48.279 --> 00:08:51.600 that's just fine. But like the fact that Green Lantern guy, 170 00:08:51.720 --> 00:08:55.480 Guy Guy what's his last name Gardner winds up like 171 00:08:55.720 --> 00:08:59.840 protecting and putting up a wall between the two nations 172 00:09:00.759 --> 00:09:03.480 and saving the little boys holding Superman flag and John 173 00:09:03.559 --> 00:09:07.720 and poor like and clearly they're inspired by Superman. 174 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:09.720 I just was. I just loved every bit of it. 175 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:13.840 Yeah. I think the movie got so much about the 176 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:17.480 characters right. And one of those things is consistently like, 177 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:21.799 it's not that other people in this movie aren't good, 178 00:09:22.039 --> 00:09:24.279 and it's not that other people in this movie aren't 179 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.519 trying to do good. Like the Justice Gang. They're not villains, 180 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:33.480 they're not like they they are heroes. They are stopping 181 00:09:33.559 --> 00:09:38.120 Kaiju and saving people, but they are inspired by Superman 182 00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:43.960 to be better. Lois is inspired by Superman to to 183 00:09:44.919 --> 00:09:48.039 have more hope. You know, all the staff of the 184 00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:51.080 Daily Planet, they are all good people doing the right thing. 185 00:09:51.200 --> 00:09:54.120 But every single character who's not an outright villain is 186 00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:58.000 inspired towards goodness by Superman. And then you have other 187 00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:01.440 characters like Lois. Lois Is role is to speak truth 188 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:04.080 to power, and she repeatedly does that over and over 189 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:07.559 again with Clark, with the Justice Gang, with her expose. 190 00:10:07.960 --> 00:10:11.600 Like those through lines of the characters are so clear 191 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:18.559 and they're stucked, they're so just correct to what the 192 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:20.200 core of those characters should be. 193 00:10:20.600 --> 00:10:24.559 Yeah, I'm going to push back one small part because 194 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:26.679 there's one character who's ethical decision making. 195 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:30.000 He's positioned as a hero. But I need to know. 196 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:34.039 What do we think of leading someone on and letting 197 00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:37.120 them think you are ready to commit to them romantically 198 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:39.200 for the rest of your life in order to get 199 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:43.200 them as a source. Because I think Jimmy Olsen is 200 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:45.799 a player in this and a honeypot and he's great 201 00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:48.559 at it. But like I was like, oh, miss tech Maker, 202 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:50.039 you're not going to find true love. 203 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:51.320 I'm so sorry for you. 204 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:55.000 I will say this is the first movie ever that 205 00:10:55.080 --> 00:10:57.399 has known what to do with Jimmy Olsen. They've never 206 00:10:57.519 --> 00:10:59.919 like in the movies. Usually he shows up and he's like, 207 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:02.159 and I'm also here, and then he leaves for the 208 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:04.960 entire rest of the movie. And this one was like, Okay, 209 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:07.399 why is this guy in this movie? And I appreciate that. 210 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:10.919 I will also say Jimmy gets action in the comics. 211 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:13.360 Jimmy has got a list of girlfriends as long as 212 00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:18.600 my arm. Okay, very accurate. Good for him, I get it. 213 00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:22.440 I didn't. I will admit I really like the reveal 214 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:25.679 that Eve was the whistleblower. I did not, And I 215 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:29.679 thought the first time, like, we see that she's super 216 00:11:29.720 --> 00:11:32.559 into him and he's not into her. It was funny 217 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:36.720 when we kept getting that joke, I was like, this, 218 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:39.600 this just is starting to feel mean spirited in a 219 00:11:39.639 --> 00:11:42.799 movie that should not be means spirited. So that joke 220 00:11:42.879 --> 00:11:46.039 did wear a little thin for me on the ethical front, though, 221 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:48.120 I do think that if the entire planet is about 222 00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:50.399 to be split in half, it's okay to leave someone on. 223 00:11:51.039 --> 00:11:53.600 That's the case where the ends justify the means. 224 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:55.679 You know, he's a lot better than James Bond about it, 225 00:11:55.720 --> 00:11:58.000 so those we can give him that, And I do say, 226 00:11:58.080 --> 00:11:59.840 I thought, yeah, I agree with you. 227 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:00.600 It felt like a. 228 00:12:00.519 --> 00:12:03.120 Little misogyny to like, you know, have that repeated joke. 229 00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:07.240 But the idea of her being this very attractive woman 230 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:10.600 who's kind of played off, like on the surface level 231 00:12:10.759 --> 00:12:13.399 as a stereotype, I think that a lot of people 232 00:12:13.480 --> 00:12:16.080 have of like the female influencer you know, who takes 233 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:19.000 all these pick selfies and gets you know, like simps 234 00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:21.159 as the term would be, you know, to to to 235 00:12:21.159 --> 00:12:24.399 to follow them. And the fact that she uses her 236 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:28.039 like looking at how sex ai am selfie is always 237 00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:30.840 taking them with like the important documents in the background 238 00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:34.120 as like some spy level shit. I was like, oh, 239 00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:39.320 test Macker's brilliant. I love this so yeah, I was 240 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:39.799 off for that. 241 00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:41.279 Yeah. 242 00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:44.879 And you can you can tell how good she is 243 00:12:44.919 --> 00:12:48.080 at this from the very beginning when she takes the 244 00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:53.200 selfie at the perfect time, timing it with Superman falling 245 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:55.840 from the sky right like she gets him in the 246 00:12:55.840 --> 00:12:59.720 frame as he's falling, So her selfie game is super 247 00:12:59.799 --> 00:13:00.360 oh point. 248 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:05.399 Yeah, and even when she's thrown in prison, Lex still 249 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:07.600 does not realize what she did. He thinks she was 250 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:10.440 just texting another guy. Yeah, he has no idea that 251 00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:11.440 his plans were leaved. 252 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:14.320 Yeah, yeah, no, I mean she and she doesn't break. 253 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:20.000 Yeah, And for me, as like one I did, I 254 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:22.240 am definitely the generation that grew up. I think Riki, 255 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:24.200 you're the saying that grew up with Christopher Reeve movies. 256 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:25.360 I really love them. 257 00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:28.799 I'm very okay with things going in new directions, but 258 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:31.080 I did want a little bit of nostalgia, and I 259 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:34.200 will say they gave it to me in in part 260 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:37.240 with her character because of course spoilers from movies from 261 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:40.519 nineteen seventy eight. But you know, one of the things 262 00:13:40.519 --> 00:13:44.039 that helps Superman is that miss Tech test Macker. She'sn't 263 00:13:44.039 --> 00:13:47.240 referred to Eve, She's Missed Testmcker. But like when she 264 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:50.159 realizes that Lex's evil plan is going to hurt her family, 265 00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:54.080 she rescues Superman and kind of betrays Lex. And so 266 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:57.159 there was that thing. But also the way that they 267 00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:00.919 used the original John Williams Superman score from those seventies 268 00:14:00.919 --> 00:14:04.080 and eighties movies. It just like they didn't overdo it, 269 00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:06.000 and it was often kind of like a new version 270 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:08.080 of it, but like I could hear it so clearly, 271 00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:11.960 and when there's like the big powerful reveal of Superman's back, 272 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:15.960 it hits the music that plays is that exact theme. 273 00:14:17.399 --> 00:14:19.080 It just regat how is that for you? 274 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:20.840 Like, it felt to me like it was really saying, 275 00:14:21.559 --> 00:14:24.480 we are paying homage to Christopher Reeve and all the 276 00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:26.919 versions of Superman over the years, while still doing our 277 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:27.279 own thing. 278 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:29.320 Yeah. 279 00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:33.840 I how I feel about this is that some people 280 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:38.320 might feel like it's like pandering to nostalgia, But in 281 00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:44.759 my opinion, it's that John Williams is a generational talent. 282 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:47.320 Yeah, and what he. 283 00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:52.159 Has done in terms of scores for movies is just 284 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:55.919 like in the DNA of the movie industry so deeply 285 00:14:56.799 --> 00:15:01.559 that at this point to have Superman without hints of 286 00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:04.000 that melody feels wrong. 287 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:05.879 Yeah, and so like he has. 288 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:08.879 Just added that to the mythos of this character. I 289 00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:12.360 think it's the same with Star Wars. Anytime you hear 290 00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:14.879 that Imperial March, you're like, this is a bad guy. 291 00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:19.240 And like so many other movies, it's just his music 292 00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:23.720 is so integral to their DNA that to not use 293 00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:26.440 them is kind of kind of criminal. 294 00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:27.879 Yeah. 295 00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:31.480 Yeah, I think this movie does a really good job 296 00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:36.519 of taking I mean, it definitely synthesizes a number of 297 00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:40.279 Superman sources. There's a ton from the comics. There's stuff 298 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:43.559 from Smallville, for sure, there is a lot from the 299 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:47.759 Christopher Reeve movies. Like it's in conversation and it has 300 00:15:47.799 --> 00:15:51.039 a lot of very strong DCAU vibes, like it's in 301 00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:57.080 conversation with Superman's sort of entire multimedia history over the 302 00:15:57.080 --> 00:16:02.159 course of eighty seven years. But I think in particular 303 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:05.279 it's particularly noticeable with the stuff that it's taking from 304 00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:09.240 the nineteen seventy eight film, And I think it's really 305 00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:15.039 smart about choosing when to homage it in a way 306 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:17.559 that feels fresh, but it's still like very much in 307 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:20.799 the same vein, like with the Superman theme, and when 308 00:16:21.039 --> 00:16:24.039 it plays on your expectations to flip them on their 309 00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:26.440 head in a fun way, like the reveal about Eve 310 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:29.240 actually not just being a bimbo who follows Lex around, 311 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:32.720 and like, I know, she saves Superman at the end 312 00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:35.559 of seventy eight, but that's just because she thinks he's cute, 313 00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:38.559 Like it's not. It's not the same level of intelligence 314 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:39.279 and heroism. 315 00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:41.159 She wants to kiss him and she wants to save 316 00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:41.919 her family. 317 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:50.360 Right right. And then there's times that it really contradicts 318 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:53.320 what's laid out in seventy eight in a way that 319 00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:56.480 I think is really important and really powerful. And I'm 320 00:16:56.519 --> 00:17:00.480 thinking specifically about like the Fortress of Solitude existed in 321 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:03.200 the comics for a long time before the nineteen seventy 322 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:05.319 eight movie, but that's the movie that made it like 323 00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:08.720 a crystal structure, And that's the movie that introduced the 324 00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:12.799 idea of holograms of Superman's parents talking to him. And 325 00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:18.519 this movie takes that idea and absolutely reverses it in 326 00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:22.240 a way that I really really loved and I thought 327 00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:28.599 was desperately needed, as you know, in a Superman story. 328 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:35.079 So I think James Gunn was very smart about how 329 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:38.519 he used what he was taking from that film. 330 00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:41.480 Like, to me, one of the most powerful visual c 331 00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:46.640 references was it is an intergalactic thing instead of just 332 00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:49.559 the San Andreas fault. But there's a little literal fault 333 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:52.039 line going through the movie exactly like there's the end. 334 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:55.240 I mean, the part Lex's whole plan is still a 335 00:17:55.279 --> 00:18:00.000 real estate scheme. He's still real estate games of. 336 00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:01.880 Well, there's no Odisberg, which made me a little sad. 337 00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:05.680 I did get Otis, we did get Otis, we did 338 00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:09.079 get notice let's talk about what you brought up, because 339 00:18:09.079 --> 00:18:10.680 I think it's one of the first interesting ethical issues. 340 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:14.599 You know, a lot of the versions of Superman that 341 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:18.799 I've seen, there's this sense of his parents imbued him 342 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:21.319 with all this sort of moral teaching, and that Ma 343 00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:24.599 and Pa can't echo it. And here, as you said, 344 00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:30.039 it's really not that the Kryptonians were sending him there. 345 00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:32.119 They have a benevolent idea. 346 00:18:32.200 --> 00:18:34.400 It's not like you know, some of the stuff of like, 347 00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:37.039 you know, go repopulate Krypton and kill all the humans, 348 00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:39.319 but it's it's more kind of like Red Sun. If 349 00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:42.799 anyone's seen that, it's we want you to rule the 350 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:46.559 people of Earth and help them through you know, force, 351 00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:48.839 and kill anyone who gets in your way because you're 352 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:51.759 superior and better to them. What what was your guys 353 00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:55.359 take on that? As like, I think you're right, it's new, 354 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:58.480 it's fresh. It felt very like I think I liked it, 355 00:18:58.519 --> 00:19:00.440 but it was so jarring to me because so often 356 00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:02.559 I think one of things I've always really liked is 357 00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:06.240 the idea of this immigrant story of yes, he learned 358 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:08.759 these great values from mon paw Kent, but they echo 359 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:12.400 what he was learning from his Homeland from Krypton. How 360 00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:13.960 do you think I felt about that that being so 361 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:14.720 turned on its head? 362 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:19.839 I have a lot of thoughts. Do you want to 363 00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:22.079 go before I. 364 00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:25.319 Correct me if I'm wrong? But this is an element 365 00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:29.039 they've kind of borrowed from Smallville, right, This idea that 366 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:32.119 Jorel's message is more of a we want you to 367 00:19:32.200 --> 00:19:33.839 rule over humans. 368 00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:38.359 It's in Small Villain. I think you see like something 369 00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:42.720 similar in My Adventures Superman. Not Joryl specifically, but Krypton 370 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:45.599 is like a very aggressive, warmongering culture. 371 00:19:46.599 --> 00:19:47.799 Interesting. Interesting. 372 00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:52.119 So for me, I still think there's the element of 373 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:57.920 what he inherits from his Kryptonian birth parents, right, because 374 00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:01.000 like he has watched the first half of the message 375 00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:04.160 for all his life and he has this belief of 376 00:20:04.519 --> 00:20:07.480 what they tried to imbuw and then when the second 377 00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:11.880 half message is revealed, there's the subversion and he realizes 378 00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:14.759 he was wrong. When I watched the movie, actually I 379 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:19.279 didn't believe it until like the movie was over. For 380 00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:22.359 pretty much the whole run time, I thought that Lex 381 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:26.480 Luthor had still manipulated it because it's kind of what 382 00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:31.240 happens in the comic Bookman birthright. I think where he 383 00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:35.799 fakes this Kryptonian invasion to kind of frame Superman, So 384 00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:39.319 they were barring a lot of elements of that comic. 385 00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:40.960 So I thought that was just going to be the 386 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:43.200 reveal at the end that he had manipulated the footage, 387 00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:46.720 and it wasn't. So I'm like, oh, Okay, I guess. 388 00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:51.640 I guess the l's are bad in this one, and 389 00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:56.559 I'm okay with that, And I think it fits fine 390 00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:04.720 with the idea of the immigrant story still, because immigrants, 391 00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:10.240 especially like this first generation that is either born or 392 00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:17.039 raised in a new place, has these disconnects with their 393 00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:23.480 home culture. And you know, as an Asian, that disconnect 394 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:25.960 can be so big, like you see it in movies 395 00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:29.880 like Crazy Rich Asians where people try to go back 396 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:33.119 to their home countries and it's like, oh, I actually 397 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:36.759 don't fit in here at all, and so like that's 398 00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:39.920 to me, like that's the culture shock of the immigrant 399 00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:43.240 story that Superman is feeling in this is like, oh, 400 00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:47.839 like everything I thought I knew about my home is wrong, 401 00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:51.599