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<v Speaker 1>It's Night Side with Dan on WBZ Boston Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks very much to Cole. Happy Monday to you and

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<v Speaker 2>to all the night side listeners out there. Boy, the

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<v Speaker 2>weekend goes by quickly, does it. I'm back behind the

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<v Speaker 2>WBZ Iconic microphone here in the eighth to midnight hour.

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<v Speaker 2>Delighted to be here, happy that you are there. Rob

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<v Speaker 2>Brooks is back in the control room. So all is

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<v Speaker 2>right with our world. And we're going to have four

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<v Speaker 2>guests this hour. We're gonna learn a lot this hour.

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<v Speaker 2>We're gonna talk about some very interesting subjects. Maybe we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to have to really drill down on some of

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<v Speaker 2>these topics because they're they're they're not necessarily topics we

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<v Speaker 2>normally talk about, but I think it as a quartet.

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<v Speaker 2>It's an interesting group of topics. So just bear with me,

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<v Speaker 2>stay with us. Coming up tonight at nine o'clock, we

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<v Speaker 2>will talk about ballot question number two here in Massachusetts,

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<v Speaker 2>which is calling for the elimination of the mcast required

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<v Speaker 2>for graduation diplomas and for Massachusetts high schools. And then,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, at ten o'clock tonight, the Democrats are gathering

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<v Speaker 2>in Chicago. Just going to be a wonderful week for

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<v Speaker 2>the Democrats. Everyone's going to pat everyone on the back,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm going to share with you Marine Doubts column

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<v Speaker 2>from over the weekend suggesting that the Democrats may have

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<v Speaker 2>exercised a coup. But we'll get to all of that.

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<v Speaker 2>I promise we'll have a we'll have a fun night

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<v Speaker 2>going all the way to a minute. I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>start it off tonight with the first of four guests,

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<v Speaker 2>Kimberly Palmer. Kimberly, welcome to Nightside.

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<v Speaker 3>How are you, hi, Dan, Thank you so much for

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<v Speaker 3>having me. I'm great.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you're a senior finance writer for nerd Wallet. So

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<v Speaker 2>first of all, let's explain to everybody what nerd wallet is.

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<v Speaker 2>I think most of us know, but give us a

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<v Speaker 2>quick little definition of what nerd wallet is.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, nerd wallet is a website and an app, and

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<v Speaker 3>we are trying to help you make good financial decisions.

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<v Speaker 3>So whether you're looking for or a credit card or

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<v Speaker 3>a bank account, we can help you find the right one.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, Well, we'll be able to give the nerd

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<v Speaker 2>Wallet way in which people can contact nerd Wallet at

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<v Speaker 2>the end of our conversation. But we're going to talk

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<v Speaker 2>tonight about a subject or an issue that I had

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<v Speaker 2>never heard of, And it's called funflation. If you inflation,

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<v Speaker 2>not inflation, not deflation, but funflation. So describe for us

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<v Speaker 2>what funflation is and how we have come to coin

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<v Speaker 2>that term.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Well, funflation basically refers to the fact that we

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<v Speaker 3>are willing to pay more money for experiences things that

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<v Speaker 3>bring us joy, whether it's a concert ticket, a restaurant

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<v Speaker 3>that's fancy, maybe a vacation that we've long dreamed about.

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<v Speaker 3>So even though prices are high, none of this is cheap.

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<v Speaker 3>We are willing to spend that money because we want

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<v Speaker 3>to have that experience. It's worth it to us. And

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<v Speaker 3>we're seeing that people are really willing to to spend

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<v Speaker 3>money on these expensive things just to get that experience.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, a government spends a lot of money, thirty four

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<v Speaker 2>trillion dollars. We're in debt at this point, so I

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<v Speaker 2>guess most people are saying, Hey, if the government can

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<v Speaker 2>do it, I can do it. From a personal finance

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<v Speaker 2>point of view, it seems to me that's a little dangerous.

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<v Speaker 3>It can definitely be a little dangerous. You really want

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<v Speaker 3>to think about your overall budget. We really like the

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<v Speaker 3>rule of thumb the fifty to thirty twenty budgeting approach,

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<v Speaker 3>which basically means fifty percent of your cake compey is

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<v Speaker 3>going towards needs, thirty percent towards once, and twenty percent

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<v Speaker 3>towards any debt payments that you have in savings. And

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<v Speaker 3>so these kinds of joyful experiences like a concert ticket

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<v Speaker 3>or a vacation come into that thirty percent bucket for once,

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<v Speaker 3>and so you just want to make sure that when

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<v Speaker 3>you're looking at a rule of thumb for how you're

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<v Speaker 3>spending money, you're not going to be buying a concert

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<v Speaker 3>ticket that will then be turning into credit card debt

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<v Speaker 3>for the next few years of your life. So making

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<v Speaker 3>decisions based on what works for your budget is a

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<v Speaker 3>really good idea.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, fifty thirty twenty, that's one hundred percent. There's no

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<v Speaker 2>room in there for taxes. Where do you put taxes?

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<v Speaker 3>Great question, So we're actually talking about take home pay

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<v Speaker 3>pay the taxes, yes, and then you can allocate it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's what I kind of thought. So I just

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to clarify that. So in this was a report that,

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<v Speaker 2>as I understand you folks, did not do. But another

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<v Speaker 2>website called bankrate dot Com actually found that, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>confused by this. It says twenty four percent of Disney

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<v Speaker 2>goers and forty five percent of Disney going parents take

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<v Speaker 2>on debt for a trip to see Goofy. Twenty four

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<v Speaker 2>percent of Disney goers. I assume that's the overall figure,

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<v Speaker 2>which might include a lot of either single folks or couples,

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<v Speaker 2>but it really goes up when you got to bring

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<v Speaker 2>the kids along, So it's forty five percent of Disney

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<v Speaker 2>going parents. That's frightening in my opinion.

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<v Speaker 3>Really, it really is scary. These costs add up so quickly.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I know as a parent myself of three kids,

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<v Speaker 3>once you start adding kids to the equation all those

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<v Speaker 3>ticket prices, it just has a multiplier effect. So you

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<v Speaker 3>can see how this adds up very quickly for family.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a whole guilt thing going on in terms of Disney,

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<v Speaker 2>because obviously your kids want to go to Disney, they

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<v Speaker 2>want to see Nicky and Minnie and Donald Doc and

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<v Speaker 2>all of that, but they have no clue how expensive

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<v Speaker 2>those day passes have become. I mean, I can remember

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<v Speaker 2>when my kids were young the day passes were expensive,

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<v Speaker 2>but they're really expensive now.

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<v Speaker 3>They certainly are. I mean it is quite shocking. I

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<v Speaker 3>know my family considered going and then we check those

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<v Speaker 3>ticket prices and we thought, oh, we could do a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of other things. It's had amount of money. So

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<v Speaker 3>it is really hard for families to manage this. And

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<v Speaker 3>of course you can do all sorts of tricks, like

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<v Speaker 3>take advantage of your hard rewards, for example, to help

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<v Speaker 3>subsidize the trip and make it cost less and shop

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<v Speaker 3>around for discounts that the end of the day, it's

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<v Speaker 3>still expensive, and so you have to decide if that

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<v Speaker 3>experience is really worth it to you. For some people

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<v Speaker 3>the answer will be yes, it is worth it, and

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<v Speaker 3>you'll make sacrifices in other areas to make it possible.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, there are some people look at Disney like the

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<v Speaker 2>Grateful Dead. People look the grateful Dead. I mean they've

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<v Speaker 2>got to go to Disney every year. They got to

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<v Speaker 2>see what's new, just like we got to go to

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<v Speaker 2>the Every Grateful Dead concert. The problem is, though, is

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<v Speaker 2>this what we used to be a nation which tended

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<v Speaker 2>to be pretty fruel. You didn't spend beyond your knees.

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<v Speaker 2>You you tried to enjoy yourself, but you knew that

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<v Speaker 2>your budget was somewhat limited. Have we just basically thrown

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<v Speaker 2>a caution to the winter. There a good percentage of

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<v Speaker 2>us who was saying, what the hell, it doesn't matter anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>Let's just spend and spend and spend, and we'll run

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<v Speaker 2>out with the clear we'll run out of money with

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<v Speaker 2>the clear bankruptcy. Who knows? I mean, have we basically

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<v Speaker 2>lost our minds?

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<v Speaker 3>I think what's really interesting to look at about how

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<v Speaker 3>we've changed is that the pandemic, the experience of the pandemic,

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<v Speaker 3>really fundamentally changed a lot of people's decisions about how

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<v Speaker 3>they spend money because we realized, you know, who knows

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<v Speaker 3>if we'll be able to have this opportunity to have

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<v Speaker 3>the experience again, We've seen what can happen when everything

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<v Speaker 3>shuts down, and it's created this sense of urgency for people.

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<v Speaker 3>We don't want to delay the experiences we might have

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<v Speaker 3>been willing to do to delay earlier, and so people

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<v Speaker 3>are willing to spend enormous amounts of money to make

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<v Speaker 3>sure they have that experience. And I think for a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of in a lot of cases, you can track

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<v Speaker 3>it back to the pandemic and how that changed the

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<v Speaker 3>way we spend.

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<v Speaker 2>The other thing is maybe a lot of people figuring

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<v Speaker 2>with that we might have a nuclear war in the

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<v Speaker 2>next six months. I mean, what what's the diff I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think this is a scary trend, I think from

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<v Speaker 2>from a responsibility point of view. But I'm a down yea, so.

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<v Speaker 3>It is definitely scary. But I think the big picture

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<v Speaker 3>here is that we need to step back and think, Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>is this experience and the cost of it still worth

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<v Speaker 3>it to us once we consider how much it will

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<v Speaker 3>cost ultimately, especially if we're financing it with a credit card,

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<v Speaker 3>for example, you have to consider all of that interest

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<v Speaker 3>adds up and at some point we'll have to pay

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<v Speaker 3>it back. So while we want to embrace the moment

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<v Speaker 3>and have all of this fun, we also want to

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<v Speaker 3>think about the long term impact.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, Well, Kimberly, that was great. You gave us

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<v Speaker 2>a really balanced point of view on this one. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>a little imbalanced on this one. I'm in the idea

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<v Speaker 2>if I kind of afford it, I'm not going it's

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<v Speaker 2>as simple. It's as simple as that. Tell us folks,

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<v Speaker 2>how can folks get in touch with you, or can

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<v Speaker 2>get in contact with nerdwallet.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much. You can find me in nerd

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<v Speaker 3>wallet at nerdwallet dot com and also on Twitter at

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<v Speaker 3>nerdwallet and at Kimberly Palmer.

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<v Speaker 2>Kimberly, your great guest. I really appreciate it tonight. You're

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<v Speaker 2>clear and to the point, and I love your approach.

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<v Speaker 4>Thank you so much, Kimberly, Thank you so much.

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<v Speaker 3>It was talking with you.

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<v Speaker 2>All Right, we come back. We're going to talk about

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<v Speaker 2>would you like to have a human boss or an

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<v Speaker 2>artificial intelligent boss. Now, some of you might think that

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<v Speaker 2>your boss only has artificial intelligence. That's not what we're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about. We're talking about an AI manager as opposed

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<v Speaker 2>to a human being. I like human beings, but will

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<v Speaker 2>get it all explained Benny Traup. He's a solutions architect

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<v Speaker 2>and co founder of Inspire AI Corp. Back on night

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<v Speaker 2>Side right after this.

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<v Speaker 1>Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window World

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<v Speaker 1>night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>So here's a question. I'm sure we're all asking one another.

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<v Speaker 2>Ken an AI manager motivate employees to change their behavior

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<v Speaker 2>at work, reinforce positive habits, improve their reliability, and how

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<v Speaker 2>would you feel working for an AI boss? Of course,

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<v Speaker 2>the question is what is an AI boss to answer

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<v Speaker 2>that question is Benny Traub. He's a solution's architect co

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<v Speaker 2>founder of Inspire AI Corp. You know, I kind of

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<v Speaker 2>like human beings as my boss. Even when I disagree

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<v Speaker 2>with him, at least I can have a conversation. Welcome, Benny.

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<v Speaker 2>How are you? I great to be with you, Dan,

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<v Speaker 2>So tell me explain, you know, in terms that everybody

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<v Speaker 2>will understand. When you talk about an AI boss, what

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<v Speaker 2>are we talking about realistically?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I think that's the wrong term. I think a

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<v Speaker 4>coach might be a better label, because a conversation.

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<v Speaker 2>Boss coach is softer than the boss. But okay, so

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<v Speaker 2>I'll go with a coach. I'm gonna I'm gonna start

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<v Speaker 2>calling my boss coach. Go ahead.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, you think of a boss as somebody who has

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<v Speaker 4>authority to fire you, hire you, give you a raise,

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<v Speaker 4>and so on.

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<v Speaker 2>Most bosses do have on betty, go ahead.

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<v Speaker 4>Right, right? And and the A equivalent that we would

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<v Speaker 4>we referred to as the AI manager doesn't have that

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<v Speaker 4>authority at least not yet. Maybe that's coming, and maybe

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<v Speaker 4>that's something we ought to be concerned about. But currently

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<v Speaker 4>today they're actually there to help the employees, specifically in

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<v Speaker 4>areas that employees might you know, individually benefit from. Consider

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<v Speaker 4>that the modern age of AI is likely going to

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<v Speaker 4>displace a lot of people, and who's going to retain

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<v Speaker 4>their jobs during this transition over the next you know,

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<v Speaker 4>five or ten years or however long this transition lasts.

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<v Speaker 4>The people that retain their jobs are going to be

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<v Speaker 4>those that have adapted really well, that have great attitudes,

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<v Speaker 4>people that want to be there, people that perform really well, right,

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<v Speaker 4>and the people that don't want to be there probably

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<v Speaker 4>won't won't be there. I mean, if there's an AI counterpartner, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Betty, that doesn't change whether or not you're working for

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<v Speaker 2>a human boss or an AI boss. Correct, I mean

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<v Speaker 2>a bad attitude loss, I assume or your AI coach

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<v Speaker 2>is going to figure that out at some point in time.

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<v Speaker 4>And say that's it. That's it. And see, that's one

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<v Speaker 4>of the benefits of an AI you know, manager, if

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<v Speaker 4>you want to call them that is that they can

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<v Speaker 4>see basically everything that's going on all of the time,

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<v Speaker 4>whereas a human manager has limited range of focus. Right,

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<v Speaker 4>they can only see one person at any given time.

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<v Speaker 4>They can stand over any you know, one person at

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<v Speaker 4>any one time, but nobody let's face it, nobody wants

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<v Speaker 4>to be micromanaged. And so what these AI managers can

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<v Speaker 4>do is they can observe all the behavior, and they're

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<v Speaker 4>getting so good at having conversations coaching conversations that they

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<v Speaker 4>can intervene in real time if there's a real time

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<v Speaker 4>incident type situation where an employee can improve their performance.

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<v Speaker 4>And even more than that, they can intervene when a

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<v Speaker 4>habit is emerging that a human manager might not even spot.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so just so we understand that. And again, what

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<v Speaker 2>happens is whenever I talk to folks like you who

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<v Speaker 2>are more techle technically astute than I am. Obviously, if

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<v Speaker 2>you work hypothetically, you know in a I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, a factory or or or a doctor's office. Uh,

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<v Speaker 2>and there's a boss, the capital, whatever you want to

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<v Speaker 2>call them. Uh, you know, they have the power, they

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<v Speaker 2>have the authority, and they get to know their employees,

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<v Speaker 2>get to know their work habits, who stays late, who doesn't,

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<v Speaker 2>who who's given one hundred percent, who's taken long coffee

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<v Speaker 2>breaks all of that stuff, who's producing the reports that

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<v Speaker 2>are clear and legible, et cetera. So that's what that's

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<v Speaker 2>what you know a human manager does. So this isn't

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<v Speaker 2>when you say, AI manager, this is some sort of

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<v Speaker 2>an algorithm. Correct, This is not a person. This is

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<v Speaker 2>not somebody who's looking over a field of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty performers in an office. This is something that is programmed.

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<v Speaker 2>I assume to be a quote unquote AI coach. Right

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<v Speaker 2>or wrong?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I think you're you're right on the money there.

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<v Speaker 2>See, I want to make sure I understand the too.

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<v Speaker 2>Go ahead, Benny.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean there's more to it than that. But

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<v Speaker 4>under the hood, you're right. It's an algorithm, and it'll

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<v Speaker 4>probably always be an algorithm. And you know, there's a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of debate over whether AI will obtain consciousness and

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<v Speaker 4>all that. But you know, for the sake of our

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<v Speaker 4>conversation today, just imagine you show up for work late

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<v Speaker 4>one day, okay, and you're brand new on the job.

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<v Speaker 4>Say it's your second day on the job. You know,

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<v Speaker 4>a human manager would take you aside and say, hey, listen,

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<v Speaker 4>it's your second day from the job. I got to

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<v Speaker 4>tell you, it's really important for all of our people

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<v Speaker 4>to show up on time. Okay, So consider that little Obo,

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<v Speaker 4>the human manager observed the person this newbie performing poorly,

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<v Speaker 4>the human manager took him aside, treated him fairly, just

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<v Speaker 4>had a normal conversation with them, empathetic. You know, hopefully

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<v Speaker 4>you didn't, you know, there was nothing wrong, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>did something happen on the way here? Is that why

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<v Speaker 4>you're late? But he would make the point, Yeah, right,

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<v Speaker 4>this is our culture and the AI manager you can

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<v Speaker 4>do that exact same thing. You can observe that behavior

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<v Speaker 4>in real time. They can take the employee aside, have

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<v Speaker 4>a private conversation with them, and just explain the rules

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<v Speaker 4>of the road, you know, for the new employee and

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<v Speaker 4>then but you wouldn't ever want to do that for

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<v Speaker 4>a veteran employee, right, because you don't want to micro

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<v Speaker 4>manage people. You don't want to take away their autonomy

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<v Speaker 4>and that type of thing. So however, you know, so

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<v Speaker 4>you know, somebody like you or me, say you've been

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<v Speaker 4>on the job for five or ten years, you would

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<v Speaker 4>never micro manage them. And you know, tell them that

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<v Speaker 4>it's the proper thing to do is to show up

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<v Speaker 4>on time. Obviously, that's the proper thing. That's the proper

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<v Speaker 4>thing to do. And they know very well so that.

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<v Speaker 2>That individual just so I understand that that individual would

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<v Speaker 2>at some point, maybe later that morning, the morning that

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<v Speaker 2>they showed up late, get an email or a mess

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<v Speaker 2>or a text message from the artificial intelligent coach. Hey,

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<v Speaker 2>notice you can go late today.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, well, there'd be a conversation. It wouldn't be.

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<v Speaker 2>An email, it would be a conversation. What do you

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<v Speaker 2>mean a conversation, Well, yes, I have a conversation. I

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<v Speaker 2>think of you and me talking.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, well it's just like that.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't mean it's like that.

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<v Speaker 4>Well have you I'm not sure if you've had the

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<v Speaker 4>experience of having deep conversations with any of the other

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<v Speaker 4>chat busts that are out there.

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<v Speaker 2>Like chat conversation with my wife Betty.

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<v Speaker 4>Come on, well we'll get ready, because this is people

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<v Speaker 4>are actually having really really deep conversations with these AI

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<v Speaker 4>chat bots. And our chat bot is actually will speak

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<v Speaker 4>to you in voice. You can talk to him and

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<v Speaker 4>voice on your headset that he will.

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<v Speaker 2>Talk back, and they'll say, hey, Benny, you notice second

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<v Speaker 2>day and a job. You're a little late today. What's

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<v Speaker 2>up with that?

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<v Speaker 4>And then well more with more empathy.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, okay, five everything, Okay, we noticed that you're a

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<v Speaker 2>few late this morning.

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<v Speaker 4>You treat people as human beings, right, yeah, you.

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<v Speaker 2>Guys programming just so I understand that, Benya, someone programs it,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and they say, well, you know, first day,

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<v Speaker 2>second day, third day, fifth day. Maybe if it's the

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<v Speaker 2>third time in the first two weeks, it becomes a

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<v Speaker 2>little less empathetic. What you're saying is you can you

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<v Speaker 2>can program the AI so that they can they can

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<v Speaker 2>be a little more stern, a little more serious, depending

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<v Speaker 2>upon well.

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<v Speaker 4>Really, it's quite it's quite common sense based. Like the

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<v Speaker 4>very first time there's a confrontation on a particular topic,

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<v Speaker 4>it's quite gentle. It's it's more like, you know, is

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<v Speaker 4>everything okay with you? You know, I just want to

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<v Speaker 4>let you know I saw that we do care about this,

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<v Speaker 4>and that's the converse conversation. The second conversation might take

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<v Speaker 4>a slightly different tone, like you know, we see this,

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<v Speaker 4>we care about it, and you know, we won't tolerate it.

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<v Speaker 4>And the third conversation goes another step further.

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<v Speaker 2>You see it.

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<v Speaker 4>No, no, no, no, you see it, we care about it,

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<v Speaker 4>we won't tolerate it, and you know, again, if we

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<v Speaker 4>can't make changes here, there could be long term contact.

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<v Speaker 2>You having fun with you a little bit here for

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<v Speaker 2>for a second. Trust me, I'm having fun and I

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<v Speaker 2>want the audience to play along with us. So here's

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<v Speaker 2>my question. What percentage of companies? And I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>if you can put a figure on this. At this

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<v Speaker 2>point have gotten rid of the human bosses, and now I'm.

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<v Speaker 4>Not one of them.

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<v Speaker 2>Not one of them.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, you know, at most, at most they coexist, okay,

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<v Speaker 4>at most, and the current AI managers play a very

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<v Speaker 4>small role. In fact, that last sequence I was outlining

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<v Speaker 4>to you, where there's this escalating conversations. Every time there's

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<v Speaker 4>a repeating incident, it comes to point at some point

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<v Speaker 4>where the AI doesn't even confront the user anymore of

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<v Speaker 4>the employee. He just sends an email to the boss,

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<v Speaker 4>the human boss, and says, hey, I've had three conversations.

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<v Speaker 4>Here's the transcripts of the conversations. Here's the dates I

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<v Speaker 4>had the conversations. I think it's it's probably best you

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<v Speaker 4>take it from here.

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<v Speaker 2>So what percentage of companies? Again, just I don't expect

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<v Speaker 2>to give me a precise figure, but what percentage of

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<v Speaker 2>companies do you think already using this algorithm in conjunction

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<v Speaker 2>with their human bosses?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I's far less than Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>When when do you think it will hit, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>a more recognizable number. That's my last question we talk.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I don't think it'll hit recognizable numbers until companies

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<v Speaker 4>are literally forced to adopt the technology. And they won't

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<v Speaker 4>be forced to adopt the technology until their competitors start

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<v Speaker 4>being able to slash their costs because their productivity is

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<v Speaker 4>just so much better. And I think there's going to

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<v Speaker 4>come a tipping point here where companies are going to

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<v Speaker 4>be forced to adopt AI in every single form AI

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<v Speaker 4>Manager and task automation and every other which way you

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<v Speaker 4>might imagine robotics. At some point, we're all going to

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<v Speaker 4>have to do it.

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<v Speaker 2>Let me tell you something. I get so tired about

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<v Speaker 2>dealing with companies where I can't speak with a human being,

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<v Speaker 2>and whether or not it's a health insurance company. I

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<v Speaker 2>got to tell you, I'm so happy I'm on the

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<v Speaker 2>wrong side of fifty Benny Trout, Thank you very much.

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<v Speaker 2>How can folks get in touch with you if they

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<v Speaker 2>want more information? What's your go to?

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<v Speaker 4>Our website?

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<v Speaker 2>Inspira AI inspired is spelled I N S P I

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<v Speaker 2>R A dot AI. Betty, Thank you very much. I

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<v Speaker 2>enjoyed the conversation. I hope you didn't feel it was

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<v Speaker 2>too bad. Much back and forth, and I want to

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<v Speaker 2>always have fun. It's thanks Betty talking to you. When

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<v Speaker 2>we get back here at Nightside, we're gonna talk about

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<v Speaker 2>a culinary historian, uh, author of Endangered Eating America's Vanishing Foods.

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<v Speaker 2>This will be interesting because I don't want any food

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<v Speaker 2>to vanish, but I guess some are disappearing before our

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<v Speaker 2>own eyes. We're gonna talk here on Nightside with Sarah

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<v Speaker 2>Loman on the other side of the news break at

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<v Speaker 2>the bottom and the hour. My name is Dan Ray.

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<v Speaker 2>This is w b Z in Boston ten thirty and

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<v Speaker 2>the Am Dollar. If you can't get us on the radio,

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<v Speaker 2>you can always check us out. Just go to WBC

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<v Speaker 2>News Radio on the iHeartRadio app. We'll be back right after.

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<v Speaker 1>This Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm Boston's news Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, they said we're talking to sort of different guests tonight,

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<v Speaker 2>and we're now going to talk with a culinary historian.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't even know there were culinary historians in existence,

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<v Speaker 2>but we have Sarah Loman with that. She's the author

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<v Speaker 2>of a book called Endangered Eating America's vanishing foods. Sarah Loman,

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Night Side.

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<v Speaker 5>Hi Dan, thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>We've all heard about endangered species, endangered animals. I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>realize there were in some endangered foods, and one of them,

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<v Speaker 2>as I understand that God forbid, are apples.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yes, I mean that's saying thought is what an

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<v Speaker 5>inspirement to write this book? Should we talk about saving

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<v Speaker 5>pandas but not pasta? But it's true both they foods

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<v Speaker 5>and even plants like apples are going extinct. It's believe

420
00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:55.720
<v Speaker 5>we've lost at least seventy five percent of apple varieties.

421
00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:58.519
<v Speaker 5>And currently there are actually teams that people out there

422
00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:01.000
<v Speaker 5>who will hike through the woods, look at old land

423
00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:04.799
<v Speaker 5>maps and try to rediscover long lost orchards to be

424
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:07.319
<v Speaker 5>able to save some of these varieties that have disappeared

425
00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:08.279
<v Speaker 5>from the market.

426
00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:11.559
<v Speaker 2>So you're telling me that there are apple orchards. The

427
00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:14.359
<v Speaker 2>picture you've paint is there are apple orchards in the

428
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:17.960
<v Speaker 2>woods which have gone oh you years.

429
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:22.960
<v Speaker 5>Yes, you will never especially in the spring when the

430
00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:25.640
<v Speaker 5>trees are blooming. You'll never look at an apple tree

431
00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:28.359
<v Speaker 5>the same way. Again, it certainly changed for me. I

432
00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:31.119
<v Speaker 5>mean sometimes an apple tree pops up just because someone

433
00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:33.799
<v Speaker 5>threw an apple core out their window and they're grow kippen.

434
00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:36.039
<v Speaker 5>That's the name for an apple tree that grows from

435
00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:39.160
<v Speaker 5>a seed. But sometimes you know, you're looking through the

436
00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:42.960
<v Speaker 5>woods and you say, huh, they're actually about five trees here,

437
00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:46.079
<v Speaker 5>but the whole forest has grown up around it. That's

438
00:22:46.119 --> 00:22:50.680
<v Speaker 5>actually exactly how some historical apples have been rediscovered. One

439
00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:54.039
<v Speaker 5>recently was found in Upstake, New York. It's called the Povishome,

440
00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:58.119
<v Speaker 5>and it happened essentially because someone a cider maker who

441
00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:01.119
<v Speaker 5>is looking for this apple, created a whtu poster. This

442
00:23:01.160 --> 00:23:03.720
<v Speaker 5>is actually a pretty common technique for hunting down lost

443
00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:06.880
<v Speaker 5>apple varieties. You use a description and a picture from

444
00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:10.359
<v Speaker 5>an early nineteenth century source. They published an edible New

445
00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:13.599
<v Speaker 5>Jersey magazine. Someone picked up the magazine and saw it

446
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:16.359
<v Speaker 5>and realized that they had that apple growing on their property.

447
00:23:16.599 --> 00:23:18.759
<v Speaker 5>When they did a little digging, they realized that the

448
00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:21.039
<v Speaker 5>people who used to own the property, originally own the

449
00:23:21.079 --> 00:23:24.559
<v Speaker 5>property were from Newark, where this apple was from. And

450
00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:27.200
<v Speaker 5>they were able to sort of compare DNA and the

451
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:29.960
<v Speaker 5>appearance and the appearance of the tree, and also the

452
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:31.720
<v Speaker 5>fact that there were four or five of these trees

453
00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:34.359
<v Speaker 5>growing in a specific pattern out in the woods. So

454
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:37.920
<v Speaker 5>you can use all of this evidence to rEFInd these

455
00:23:37.960 --> 00:23:38.880
<v Speaker 5>lost apples.

456
00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:45.000
<v Speaker 2>Just assure me, please, Sarah, that Macintosh apples my favorite apple,

457
00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:50.039
<v Speaker 2>the greatest apple is not Conway.

458
00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:53.000
<v Speaker 5>Oh it's doing just fine right now. And you know,

459
00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:57.279
<v Speaker 5>even gold red Delicious is an apple from the nineteenth century.

460
00:23:57.279 --> 00:24:00.759
<v Speaker 5>It's been attributed to one of Johnny appleseeds apple actually,

461
00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:03.880
<v Speaker 5>but there are literally thousands. I mean, when we think

462
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:06.559
<v Speaker 5>about how many apples we see in the grocery store,

463
00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:09.440
<v Speaker 5>even in a good orchard where you're probably getting those macintoshes,

464
00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:12.480
<v Speaker 5>you know, maybe we see half a dozen varieties, maybe

465
00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:13.880
<v Speaker 5>two dozen at the most.

466
00:24:13.960 --> 00:24:16.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, you got gala apples and the crisp apples

467
00:24:17.079 --> 00:24:19.559
<v Speaker 2>and green and what are they the green ones are called?

468
00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:21.640
<v Speaker 2>What are they called? My daughter loves those.

469
00:24:23.319 --> 00:24:27.400
<v Speaker 5>Yellow delicious different speaking apples.

470
00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:29.960
<v Speaker 2>What is the one that's it's just green, it's just

471
00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:32.759
<v Speaker 2>a green, It's it's always green. I don't know whatever,

472
00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:35.880
<v Speaker 2>but I'm in. I mean, I am a died in

473
00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:38.559
<v Speaker 2>the wool Macintosh guys. A matter of fact, every time

474
00:24:39.319 --> 00:24:41.359
<v Speaker 2>this time of view and I walk in a grocery store,

475
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:46.240
<v Speaker 2>no matter when any from August fifteenth on I'm looking

476
00:24:46.279 --> 00:24:50.240
<v Speaker 2>around the vegetable and the fruit area. Where are there

477
00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:52.960
<v Speaker 2>are there? Are there any macintosh? And then when I

478
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:57.759
<v Speaker 2>finally see yeah, absolutely, So what else? What else is

479
00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:01.440
<v Speaker 2>going away or has gone away? What did people used

480
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:03.200
<v Speaker 2>to eat that no longer exists?

481
00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:07.680
<v Speaker 5>Well, hopefully the one thing dealing in the book. We're

482
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:11.119
<v Speaker 5>not talking about things that have totally disappeared, although that

483
00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:13.440
<v Speaker 5>can happen with things like apples. Are also right about

484
00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:17.079
<v Speaker 5>date palms too. There are some date varieties that the

485
00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:20.880
<v Speaker 5>date industry was brought to the Potella Valley in California

486
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:23.920
<v Speaker 5>about a century ago, and date trees only have a

487
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:27.519
<v Speaker 5>pretty small amount of time where you can basically clone them,

488
00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:29.880
<v Speaker 5>where you can take a cutting from them and grow

489
00:25:29.960 --> 00:25:32.200
<v Speaker 5>new trees. So some of those varieties have been lost.

490
00:25:32.599 --> 00:25:34.519
<v Speaker 5>But a lot of the food elements that I talk

491
00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:39.119
<v Speaker 5>about in the book are part of indigenous cultures. And

492
00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:42.799
<v Speaker 5>part of the way that America has tried to colonize

493
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:46.359
<v Speaker 5>nagenous cultures is by grooving them from land, which then

494
00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:49.640
<v Speaker 5>ulster removes them from native food sources, and even by

495
00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:53.799
<v Speaker 5>replacing some of those foods by giving government supplies too.

496
00:25:53.880 --> 00:25:57.359
<v Speaker 5>So I also focused on places like wild rice, which

497
00:25:57.400 --> 00:26:00.880
<v Speaker 5>comes from the Great Lakes region. I talked about file

498
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:03.400
<v Speaker 5>powder from the Gulf Coast of Mexico, which is a

499
00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:06.240
<v Speaker 5>part of a lot of different cultural groups down there too.

500
00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:11.200
<v Speaker 5>I talked about the Navajo truro sheep, which is I mean,

501
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:14.279
<v Speaker 5>it's the sheep variety of the Navajo people. The meat

502
00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:17.039
<v Speaker 5>taste like home and if you're familiar with Navajo weavings,

503
00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:19.279
<v Speaker 5>those weavings come from the rule of these animals.

504
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:23.920
<v Speaker 2>I heard that that Navajo churro, it's beef, but it

505
00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:29.279
<v Speaker 2>tastes like chicken. That's what everybody says to me. Oh,

506
00:26:29.319 --> 00:26:31.000
<v Speaker 2>try this food. This tastes like chicken.

507
00:26:31.119 --> 00:26:31.880
<v Speaker 5>Tastes like chicken.

508
00:26:31.960 --> 00:26:34.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, wait is that And now you said that they

509
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:39.359
<v Speaker 2>used to harvest wild rice, yeah, the Upper Midwest.

510
00:26:39.799 --> 00:26:40.799
<v Speaker 5>I'm still new.

511
00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:43.160
<v Speaker 2>It's just I don't think that is being in the

512
00:26:43.240 --> 00:26:45.480
<v Speaker 2>Upper Midwest. They think of rice as being, you know,

513
00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:49.559
<v Speaker 2>somewhere in Asia or maybe Central America. Wow, I never.

514
00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:53.640
<v Speaker 5>Realized that, Well, rice is from Asia, but wild rice

515
00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:57.240
<v Speaker 5>is actually a distinct grain from rice. It's more it's

516
00:26:57.400 --> 00:27:00.160
<v Speaker 5>closest relative as corn. So knowing that, I mean, makes

517
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:03.599
<v Speaker 5>more sense that it's an indigenous grain to North America,

518
00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:06.319
<v Speaker 5>and there's several different varieties. You can actually find it

519
00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:09.960
<v Speaker 5>all over basically east of the Mississippi. But the northern

520
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:13.200
<v Speaker 5>wild rice, which is the variety that's traditionally harvested that

521
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:17.680
<v Speaker 5>you find throughout the Great Lakes region, Upper Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota,

522
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:20.200
<v Speaker 5>and even into the Dakotas a little bit, and it's

523
00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:22.079
<v Speaker 5>the big people that harvest it.

524
00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:24.960
<v Speaker 2>I got one question for your book. Yes, this long

525
00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:30.119
<v Speaker 2>horned cattle are now categorized as critical. That's hook em

526
00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:35.759
<v Speaker 2>horns right University exactly, hookham horns. They're going to be extinct.

527
00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:39.319
<v Speaker 5>It's an iconic animal, but it doesn't really have a

528
00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:42.519
<v Speaker 5>place in the way our food system is today. It

529
00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:46.640
<v Speaker 5>is considered one of our oldest livestock breeds. But those wide, wide,

530
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:50.119
<v Speaker 5>wide horns, they don't get into railway cars. So at

531
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:52.960
<v Speaker 5>the turn of the nineteenth century, when we stopped slaughtering

532
00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:57.000
<v Speaker 5>animals locally and they were instead rounded up and put

533
00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:00.400
<v Speaker 5>on trains and taken into Chicago, the longhorn didn't into

534
00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:04.839
<v Speaker 5>that system. So they're really really hearty, durable, beautiful animals,

535
00:28:04.839 --> 00:28:07.279
<v Speaker 5>but we don't eat them anymore. So that is what

536
00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:10.119
<v Speaker 5>puts them at risk because the only people that will

537
00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:12.519
<v Speaker 5>you care for them are someone who's just interested in

538
00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:14.039
<v Speaker 5>having an old breed around.

539
00:28:14.440 --> 00:28:14.759
<v Speaker 4>Wow.

540
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:17.440
<v Speaker 2>Boy, that's it. That is really interesting. When does your

541
00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:19.240
<v Speaker 2>book already out or is it coming out?

542
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:22.640
<v Speaker 5>It is No, it's already out. It's in hardcover right

543
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:25.319
<v Speaker 5>now and audiobook and ebook and you can get it

544
00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:27.160
<v Speaker 5>in paper book on November fifth.

545
00:28:27.799 --> 00:28:32.400
<v Speaker 2>Endangered Eating America is Vanishing Foods by Sarah Loman. Fascinating.

546
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:34.799
<v Speaker 2>I never thought of this. You get it on Amazon,

547
00:28:35.079 --> 00:28:39.160
<v Speaker 2>Real Easy and other bookstores. I've really enjoyed the conversation.

548
00:28:39.319 --> 00:28:43.200
<v Speaker 2>I learned a lot from this ten minute conversation, none

549
00:28:43.240 --> 00:28:46.240
<v Speaker 2>of which makes me happy, but we should be aware

550
00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:48.440
<v Speaker 2>of this. The one thing that makes me happy is

551
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:50.400
<v Speaker 2>the Macintosh. Apple is going to be around for.

552
00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:52.839
<v Speaker 5>A while, right, And hey, there's a lot of help

553
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:54.640
<v Speaker 5>in the book too. You know, it's not about things

554
00:28:54.680 --> 00:28:57.400
<v Speaker 5>that are disappearing, it's about the people who are saving them.

555
00:28:57.559 --> 00:29:00.279
<v Speaker 2>Great, great Sarah. I really enjoyed the conversation, and this

556
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:02.359
<v Speaker 2>was fun for me, and it was also very instructive.

557
00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:04.279
<v Speaker 4>Thank you so much, Thanks so much.

558
00:29:04.279 --> 00:29:06.799
<v Speaker 3>Stand by all right, we get back.

559
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:10.000
<v Speaker 2>We're going to finish up with Christine Rosen She's a

560
00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:14.599
<v Speaker 2>senior fellow at the AEI, the American Enterprise Institute. She's

561
00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:17.960
<v Speaker 2>written a book called Extinction of Experience Being Human in

562
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:21.799
<v Speaker 2>a Disembodied World. I can identify with that and hope

563
00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:24.359
<v Speaker 2>you can as well. Be talking with Christine Rosen right

564
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:26.759
<v Speaker 2>after this break on Nightside.

565
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:30.079
<v Speaker 1>Now back to Dan Way live from the Window World

566
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:33.279
<v Speaker 1>night Side Studios. I'm WBZ News Radio.

567
00:29:34.119 --> 00:29:36.400
<v Speaker 2>My guest is Christine Rosen. She's a senior fellow at

568
00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:41.000
<v Speaker 2>the American Enterprise Institute, a great think tank. Wrote a book,

569
00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:44.359
<v Speaker 2>the Extinction of Experience Being Human in the Disembodied World.

570
00:29:44.920 --> 00:29:47.160
<v Speaker 2>Let me tell you, Christine, I feel like I could

571
00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:53.440
<v Speaker 2>have written the book myself. I mean, everything now is virtual.

572
00:29:53.720 --> 00:29:57.599
<v Speaker 2>And earlier this hour we talked with instead of having

573
00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:00.440
<v Speaker 2>a human boss, we're all gonna have AI boss who

574
00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:02.440
<v Speaker 2>are going to send us these little notes that you

575
00:30:02.519 --> 00:30:05.480
<v Speaker 2>relate for work today. That's not a good thing. Please

576
00:30:05.640 --> 00:30:11.000
<v Speaker 2>get your act together. We're going down a bad direction here, Christine,

577
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:15.359
<v Speaker 2>at least from my perspective. What say you, Christine?

578
00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:17.599
<v Speaker 5>Well, I couldn't agree more obviously.

579
00:30:17.799 --> 00:30:21.640
<v Speaker 6>And I think one of the great challenges going forward

580
00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:25.319
<v Speaker 6>is that we've been told and we've experienced ourselves using

581
00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:28.759
<v Speaker 6>a lot of these technologies. Their ease, their convenience, their efficiency,

582
00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:31.319
<v Speaker 6>and what we forget is what we lose when we

583
00:30:31.400 --> 00:30:34.759
<v Speaker 6>replace our human interactions looking each other in the eye,

584
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:37.839
<v Speaker 6>talking to each other face to face with communicating with

585
00:30:37.880 --> 00:30:40.160
<v Speaker 6>each other on our phones and on our screens. It's

586
00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:43.079
<v Speaker 6>just not the same, and the quality of those interactions

587
00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:45.440
<v Speaker 6>isn't It isn't as deep and isn't as rich.

588
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:50.640
<v Speaker 2>You know what, I really don't like my kids. They're adults,

589
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:55.599
<v Speaker 2>they're in the thirties, but they want text messages. So

590
00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:58.200
<v Speaker 2>they send me a text message if they can write

591
00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:00.559
<v Speaker 2>in about five seconds. You know, dad, what do we

592
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:02.319
<v Speaker 2>doing this weekend? We have some plans. I'd like to

593
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:06.359
<v Speaker 2>figure out what your schedule is, so I then stumble

594
00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:09.599
<v Speaker 2>through you know, okay, what do you want to ask

595
00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:14.720
<v Speaker 2>me about? The sentence and the the sentence in a

596
00:31:14.759 --> 00:31:18.119
<v Speaker 2>preposition inappropriately, Well, the questions that we have and they

597
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:20.200
<v Speaker 2>go on for like fifteen you know what. It takes

598
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:22.559
<v Speaker 2>me ten minutes to read it, and then I have

599
00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:24.920
<v Speaker 2>to answer it and then back and forth. Pick up

600
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:27.240
<v Speaker 2>the phone, call me and tell me what you want

601
00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:28.880
<v Speaker 2>to do this weekend. I'll let you know if it

602
00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:32.079
<v Speaker 2>can work, they don't want to do that. What's going on?

603
00:31:32.359 --> 00:31:34.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean, well, well it's my kids. I think it's

604
00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:37.559
<v Speaker 2>all the thirty somethings just they want text messages.

605
00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:40.440
<v Speaker 6>Well I have I have eighteen year old, so I

606
00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:42.880
<v Speaker 6>can sympathize. I think if you're raised in an environment

607
00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:45.519
<v Speaker 6>where it's very easy to control your interactions with others

608
00:31:45.559 --> 00:31:48.960
<v Speaker 6>by using technology as a mediator, then you start to

609
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:52.119
<v Speaker 6>become uncomfortable having to listen to someone on the phone,

610
00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:55.039
<v Speaker 6>having to have the patience really to wait for a

611
00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:57.720
<v Speaker 6>return phone call, for example. But what they miss again,

612
00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:01.599
<v Speaker 6>tone of voice, a chuckle or a laugh, or maybe

613
00:32:01.599 --> 00:32:04.759
<v Speaker 6>someone sounds tense. They miss an opportunity to connect at

614
00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:08.160
<v Speaker 6>a human level by using this more efficient technology. Sometimes

615
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:12.240
<v Speaker 6>it's great, but when it becomes the overwhelming replacement for

616
00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:13.960
<v Speaker 6>our interactions, I think we suffer.

617
00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:16.440
<v Speaker 2>See I don't even really, I don't even accept the

618
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:18.240
<v Speaker 2>fact that it's more efficient. The point I was trying

619
00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:20.720
<v Speaker 2>to make before is that I can accomplish in a

620
00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:24.359
<v Speaker 2>thirty second phone call verbally what might take me ten

621
00:32:24.440 --> 00:32:27.640
<v Speaker 2>minutes to interact with messaging back and forth. Plus you

622
00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:31.319
<v Speaker 2>lose your train of thought because someone else messages you.

623
00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:34.519
<v Speaker 2>It just to me is horrific. I mean, I can

624
00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:36.880
<v Speaker 2>remember I've been in the media for a long time.

625
00:32:36.920 --> 00:32:40.480
<v Speaker 2>We used to do stories about how people lived in neighborhoods,

626
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:43.200
<v Speaker 2>and even going back to like the Kiddy Genevieve story

627
00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:45.759
<v Speaker 2>in New York in nineteen sixty. I wasn't working there.

628
00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:48.000
<v Speaker 2>I was in high school. But the idea about the

629
00:32:48.039 --> 00:32:51.000
<v Speaker 2>neighbors never called police. All they did was without the

630
00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:54.519
<v Speaker 2>window and watch their name of being murdered. And you

631
00:32:55.319 --> 00:32:57.279
<v Speaker 2>live in a city block, you have no idea, or

632
00:32:57.279 --> 00:32:59.039
<v Speaker 2>even you live in a street, you have no idea

633
00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:00.480
<v Speaker 2>who lives next door? Do you anymore?

634
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:04.240
<v Speaker 6>Look, I mean most people can name ten celebrities and

635
00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:06.680
<v Speaker 6>they can't name a single neighbor. And that's worrisome, right,

636
00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:09.599
<v Speaker 6>that actually is. You know, it's much easier or easier

637
00:33:09.640 --> 00:33:11.440
<v Speaker 6>to send a text message across the world than it

638
00:33:11.480 --> 00:33:14.039
<v Speaker 6>is to tie your own shoe physically, So we do it.

639
00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:14.799
<v Speaker 4>It's easier.

640
00:33:14.839 --> 00:33:17.640
<v Speaker 6>But what do we give up in the skills we

641
00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:20.240
<v Speaker 6>are are we losing in living that way?

642
00:33:20.119 --> 00:33:23.039
<v Speaker 2>I know they know more about Taylor Swift and Travis

643
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:27.279
<v Speaker 2>Kelcey in the intimacy or lack thereof, and their relationship

644
00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:29.759
<v Speaker 2>and their travel plans that they do about the woman

645
00:33:29.799 --> 00:33:32.240
<v Speaker 2>who lives across the street who's a widow and is

646
00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:35.079
<v Speaker 2>obviously struggling a little bit, you know, getting her trash

647
00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:40.039
<v Speaker 2>cans out every Wednesday morning or whatever. I just I

648
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:43.079
<v Speaker 2>think we're losing it. This is particularly in the big cities.

649
00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:46.039
<v Speaker 2>I don't think that this has infected small town America

650
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:49.880
<v Speaker 2>as much. I don't know if you see that distinction

651
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:50.279
<v Speaker 2>or not.

652
00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:53.839
<v Speaker 6>But well, I think the challenge there is that when

653
00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:57.039
<v Speaker 6>people do get together, there's a sense in which they're

654
00:33:57.079 --> 00:34:00.400
<v Speaker 6>face to face interactions then have a second life on line.

655
00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:01.759
<v Speaker 6>So if you look at you know, like a local

656
00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:04.920
<v Speaker 6>school board election, for example, can become quite vicious and

657
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:08.440
<v Speaker 6>terrible when people have battles about it on a Facebook

658
00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:11.920
<v Speaker 6>group rather than just sitting down together and hashing out

659
00:34:11.960 --> 00:34:15.199
<v Speaker 6>the problems as adults looking at each other in the eye.

660
00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:18.280
<v Speaker 6>Because we have this this willingness to say and do

661
00:34:18.440 --> 00:34:21.280
<v Speaker 6>things when we are behind our screens that we would

662
00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:23.599
<v Speaker 6>never do when we were face to face with others.

663
00:34:23.880 --> 00:34:26.039
<v Speaker 2>You know, now, again, I might be very biased, he

664
00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:28.440
<v Speaker 2>because for thirty one years I was an on air

665
00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:30.960
<v Speaker 2>television reporter with the CBS station here in Boston, and

666
00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:33.320
<v Speaker 2>from seventeen I've been doing the talk show and we

667
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:39.800
<v Speaker 2>call the talk show America's North, America's back Porch. And

668
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:42.960
<v Speaker 2>I fashioned the show to like where I grew up,

669
00:34:43.000 --> 00:34:45.159
<v Speaker 2>and that people would be sitting on the back porch

670
00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:47.360
<v Speaker 2>summertime or maybe even the winter time if they were

671
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:51.360
<v Speaker 2>able to screen it in, you know, have some weather,

672
00:34:51.880 --> 00:34:54.679
<v Speaker 2>and you know, someone comes along, makes a comment, sits

673
00:34:54.719 --> 00:34:56.920
<v Speaker 2>there for a while, someone else comes on. They talk

674
00:34:56.960 --> 00:34:59.320
<v Speaker 2>about this, They talk about that it was a sense

675
00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:02.639
<v Speaker 2>of commune, the sense of knowing where you were living,

676
00:35:02.679 --> 00:35:05.840
<v Speaker 2>who you were living near. And it's and this is

677
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:10.360
<v Speaker 2>just it's going away and we're losing it. We're losing

678
00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:13.760
<v Speaker 2>that that fabric of America that really does hold a

679
00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:18.639
<v Speaker 2>neighborhood together fast that I can't wait to read your book.

680
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:22.159
<v Speaker 2>It's coming out in September. So it's not available now.

681
00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:24.920
<v Speaker 6>Right, you can, well, you can pre order it on Amazon.

682
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:27.559
<v Speaker 6>It comes out on September tenth. Yeah, so it is.

683
00:35:27.639 --> 00:35:30.679
<v Speaker 6>It will be available very soon. And it does look

684
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:32.440
<v Speaker 6>at at all of these issues, and I think you're

685
00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:35.920
<v Speaker 6>absolutely right. Ultimately, my real concern is that we are

686
00:35:35.960 --> 00:35:38.440
<v Speaker 6>able to talk to each other, debate each other, and

687
00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:40.960
<v Speaker 6>really form communities again in a way that will make

688
00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:43.000
<v Speaker 6>us a happier, healthier society.

689
00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:45.400
<v Speaker 2>Well that's another problem. Now you can't even have a

690
00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:49.119
<v Speaker 2>disagreement with someone who might uh you know, who might

691
00:35:49.159 --> 00:35:51.440
<v Speaker 2>be on the other side of the presidential golf here.

692
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:52.719
<v Speaker 1>That's right.

693
00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:56.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh, you're a bad person because you support him or her.

694
00:35:57.000 --> 00:36:00.039
<v Speaker 2>It's just crazy. Christine rose has Senior fellow at the

695
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:03.280
<v Speaker 2>American Enterprise Institute, a great organization and a great thing.

696
00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:06.519
<v Speaker 2>Thank The book comes out in September, The Extinction of

697
00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:11.559
<v Speaker 2>Experience Being Human in a Disembodied World. It's September tenth.

698
00:36:11.679 --> 00:36:14.199
<v Speaker 2>Don't worry, folks. They'll either be a presidential debate or

699
00:36:14.199 --> 00:36:17.719
<v Speaker 2>someone will be sentenced from court to prison virtually every

700
00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:21.639
<v Speaker 2>date in September, So just remember September tenth for Christine Rosen.

701
00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:26.320
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Christine. I really enjoyed it, and I'm a

702
00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:29.559
<v Speaker 2>big fan of the AEI I want you to know that.

703
00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:32.599
<v Speaker 4>Okay, thank you so much for having me on. You're welcome.

704
00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:36.599
<v Speaker 2>When we come back, we're going to talk about something

705
00:36:36.679 --> 00:36:38.960
<v Speaker 2>that most of you know a little bit about, but

706
00:36:38.960 --> 00:36:41.119
<v Speaker 2>we're going to learn more about it. It's called the

707
00:36:41.239 --> 00:36:45.760
<v Speaker 2>MCAST graduation requirement. Here in Massachusetts. It is actually going

708
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:49.119
<v Speaker 2>to be on the ballot this September as Question two,

709
00:36:49.599 --> 00:36:53.119
<v Speaker 2>and we're going to have Mary Tamer, former Boston School

710
00:36:53.119 --> 00:36:55.840
<v Speaker 2>Committee member and also the executive director of Democrats for

711
00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:59.199
<v Speaker 2>Education Reform in Massachusetts. They are opposed to getting rid

712
00:36:59.199 --> 00:37:02.719
<v Speaker 2>of the MCST graduation requirement. We'll explain it all, and

713
00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:05.960
<v Speaker 2>later on sometime either this month or early next month,

714
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:09.119
<v Speaker 2>we will have the teachers' union representatives on it who

715
00:37:09.159 --> 00:37:11.519
<v Speaker 2>want to get rid of it. We'll explain everything, coming

716
00:37:11.559 --> 00:37:13.480
<v Speaker 2>back right after the nine o'clock news here in a

717
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:15.159
<v Speaker 2>Monday night edition at nightside