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No purchase necessary void, We're prohibited by Law 22 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:03.600 eighteen plus terms and conditions applying. See website for detail. 23 00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:19.079 Host Radian, you are now listening to True Murder, The 24 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:22.640 most shocking Killers in True crime History and the authors 25 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:29.040 that have written about them Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. 26 00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:33.719 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 27 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:37.920 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 28 00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:41.439 your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 29 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:53.599 Good Evening. This is your host Dan Zupanski for the 30 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:56.480 program True Murder, The most shocking killers in true crime 31 00:01:56.560 --> 00:02:00.359 History and the authors that have written about them. Susan 32 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:03.040 Berman was reared in the lap of locke Las Vegas 33 00:02:03.079 --> 00:02:06.400 luxury as the daughter of Davy Berman, a notorious casino 34 00:02:06.439 --> 00:02:10.919 mogul and mafia leader. It wasn't until college, well after 35 00:02:10.919 --> 00:02:13.159 her father's death, that she learned what he really was 36 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:16.840 and really did. She ultimately dedicated her life to learning 37 00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:20.400 about Vegas and its underworld bosses, publishing two books on 38 00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:24.800 the subject, Easy Street and Lady Las Vegas. Her story 39 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:26.919 takes a turn for the bazaar in nineteen eighty two 40 00:02:26.919 --> 00:02:29.919 when Kathy Durst, the wife of college friend and heir 41 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:34.039 to a New York real estate fortune Robert Durst, mysteriously disappeared. 42 00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:38.199 Robert Durst was the prime sussect primary suspect, but no 43 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:42.240 charges were laid. Shortly after the Kathy Durst case was reopened, 44 00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:44.919 Susie Berman, Susan Berman was found shot in the back 45 00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:49.520 of the head, mob execution style, no forced entry, no robbery, 46 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:53.319 nothing missing. Again, Robert is a suspect. Did Susan know 47 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:56.719 her killer? Did she have knowledge about Kathy Durst's death? 48 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:00.560 Murder of a Mafia Daughter The Life and Tragic Death 49 00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:07.639 of Susan Berman by my special guest Kathy Scott. I 50 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:12.000 do not have Kathy Scott on the air. Maybe she's 51 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:14.199 just late getting to the phone to be able to 52 00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:20.439 call in for the program. I do have, I guess, 53 00:03:20.479 --> 00:03:23.680 I guess a couple announcements to make as well while 54 00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:27.560 we wait for her to contact the program. The book 55 00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:30.240 we're discussing tonight is Murder of a Mafia Daughter, The 56 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:33.719 Life and Tragic Death of Susan Berman by Kathy Scott. 57 00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:37.000 It is really the story that you have seen in 58 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:42.280 Casino and more so in the movie Bugsy starring Warren Beatty, 59 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:53.000 where there is a primarily involves the arrangement between Meyer, Lansky, 60 00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:59.400 Davey Berman and Bugsy Siegel and basically the founders of 61 00:03:59.479 --> 00:04:03.800 Las Vegas as the story goes, members of the Jewish mafia, 62 00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:07.360 Meyer Lansky being the moneyman, and Bugsy Siegell as you 63 00:04:07.439 --> 00:04:13.039 see in the movie, very flamboyant and outgoing person that 64 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:15.960 wanted to believed in the Las Vegas idea that the 65 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:17.800 mob could go and sort of clean up their act 66 00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:21.160 in Las Vegas, make it for everyone to make a 67 00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:24.399 ton of cash. And so a lot of people are 68 00:04:25.160 --> 00:04:29.120 fairly familiar with the story from the Bugsy Seagull movie 69 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:32.199 starring Warren Beatty and from Casino starring Robert de Niro 70 00:04:32.279 --> 00:04:36.519 and a cast of many many reputable mob type actors 71 00:04:36.759 --> 00:04:40.600 or actors playing mob members. While we wait to get 72 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:44.079 Kathy Scott on the line. And this is the second 73 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:47.319 time she has been on the program. The first time 74 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:50.959 was very early on in near the inception of the program, 75 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:53.920 and her book was The Rough Guy to True Crime, 76 00:04:55.000 --> 00:05:00.720 a compilation of basically the most interesting notorious infamous criminals 77 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:04.959 involved in true crime, primarily killers, but also she featured 78 00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:13.160 some infamous robbery and thieves in her book and mafia members. Anyway, 79 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:15.319 what I'm going to tell you about next week is 80 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:20.319 that hold onto your seats because especially for our American 81 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:24.720 audience that's not as familiar with this story, and in fact, 82 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:26.839 I shouldn't even say that no one is familiar with 83 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:32.319 this story. Basically people have just gotten snippets from the 84 00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:36.600 Canadian press. This is another really, really high profile case. 85 00:05:37.079 --> 00:05:45.000 Robert Willie Picton accused of forty nine murders, actually charged 86 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:51.439 with twenty six. Particularly grizzly and bizarre and gruesome tale 87 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:57.079 of a serial killer who fed the remains of his 88 00:05:57.160 --> 00:06:02.000 victims to the pigs that were on his farm. There 89 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:04.439 has been a publication ban for a few years till 90 00:06:04.519 --> 00:06:07.920 the appeal was finally concluded. Earlier this year. A very 91 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:15.360 reputable journalist and author has decided to do books. Do 92 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:17.360 two books about the pict In case. The first one 93 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:19.839 was called The Picton Files and this one is called 94 00:06:20.439 --> 00:06:24.720 On the Farm Robert William Pickton and the Tragic Story 95 00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:28.600 of Vancouver's Missing Women. This is Stevie Cameron. She's known 96 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:31.720 for writing a book about Canada's Prime minister called On 97 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:41.240 the Take, exposing the German I guess arms dealer salesman 98 00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:47.439 his name is Schreiber, and the relationship between Canada's Prime 99 00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:51.439 Minister Brian mulroney and her book was called on the take, 100 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:56.199 so an investigative journalists not afraid to get her get 101 00:06:56.199 --> 00:07:01.160 her fingers dirty. I guess looking into into stories, I'm 102 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:04.160 not worried about ruffling any feathers. And she has decided 103 00:07:04.199 --> 00:07:07.480 to write this book on the Farm in seven hundred 104 00:07:07.480 --> 00:07:13.240 and fifty pages, comes out in hardcover by NONF. Kopff 105 00:07:13.959 --> 00:07:15.480 and incredible book. 106 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:18.360 I've just started this book because I've been very busy, 107 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:20.879 but it's just an amazing book. It's one of the 108 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:26.959 most spectacular trials and cases in true crime history, absolutely 109 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:32.839 without any exaggeration whatsoever, the details of what the police found. 110 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:36.279 There are some victims that narrowly escaped death at the 111 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:40.800 hands of Robert Picton. It is again, or at least 112 00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:45.759 another story of police ineptitude at a very very high level, 113 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:50.399 ignoring one of their own and chastising them and actually 114 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:54.000 demoting them because one of their own had suggested that 115 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:57.000 it was a serial killer at work in the Vancouver 116 00:07:57.079 --> 00:08:01.680 area in British Columbia, Canada, and no. 117 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:05.319 One listened to this gentleman. And sure enough, that's what 118 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:09.560 they had operating in the Vancouver just outside the Vancouver 119 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:14.800 area for many years. There is part of the book, 120 00:08:14.839 --> 00:08:17.399 and she'll talk about it on the program. I'm sure 121 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:20.480 because I'll be asking you this question. There is now 122 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:23.160 talk that has leaked out from various stories, and again 123 00:08:23.360 --> 00:08:27.759 the press has been very hesitant to report very much. 124 00:08:27.959 --> 00:08:31.240 There's a publication ban, but also there's great outcry in 125 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:35.720 Canada over graphic detail the Bernardo Homalka case or any 126 00:08:36.200 --> 00:08:43.159 type of case where there's graphic testimony, evidence, ruesome details. Canadians, 127 00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:50.440 unlike Americans, don't want to know. We live somewhat sheltered life. 128 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:55.159 And I think I've said it before, Canadians, as Canadians, 129 00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:57.879 we believe that we're very much different than Americans. We 130 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:01.480 believe honestly that Americans much more violent than we are 131 00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:07.440 as Canadians from what we see, and your higher murder 132 00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:12.639 rates are just I guess part of that evidence for them. However, 133 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:16.559 when we do see the kind of shock and shocking 134 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:22.039 and gruesome and bizarre and horrific crimes like we're used 135 00:09:22.039 --> 00:09:26.480 to hearing somewhat routinely in America, in the bigger cities 136 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:30.799 and sometimes not in bigger cities, that Canadians, I then believe, 137 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:35.399 are in denial that we are very very similar to Americans. 138 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:39.519 And if we were to have the kind of social 139 00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:45.679 situations or social problems that America has and combined with 140 00:09:46.279 --> 00:09:51.039 access to handguns and at Canada, very much like the 141 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:55.279 United States has, experiences a lot of murder and violence 142 00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:59.639 as a result of current drug laws. You call it 143 00:09:59.679 --> 00:10:02.399 pro yes, but the current drug laws. And I won't 144 00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:04.879 get into any kind of debate regarding that, but the 145 00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:07.120 fact of the matter is there's a lot of gang 146 00:10:07.159 --> 00:10:13.440 related and organized crime related murders, not constantly, but certain 147 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:17.320 to a certain degree. Anyway, Thank god, we've got Kathy 148 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:18.759 Scott on the line, so I'm going to put it 149 00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:21.360 right on and we'll get going with this program. Thanks 150 00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:30.080 very much for being comfortable with this and Kathy, are 151 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:31.559 you on the line. 152 00:10:33.399 --> 00:10:36.120 I just got back from San Diego. Thank you for 153 00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:36.879 your patience. 154 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:41.720 Thank you very much, Kathy, Thank you for joining the program. 155 00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:44.000 I was boring the audience there. Well, we waited for you, 156 00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:48.240 so I'm sorry. I apologize, no problem. Thank you very 157 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:51.759 much for agreeing to this program. So let me start 158 00:10:51.799 --> 00:10:56.879 off with I guess one of my stock questions that 159 00:10:57.000 --> 00:11:00.799 I normally ask of the guests, because I'm very curious, 160 00:11:01.159 --> 00:11:04.240 what made you come to the decision to write a 161 00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:07.559 book about Susan Berman, the daughter of infamous Vegas mobster 162 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:08.360 Davey Berman. 163 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:13.320 Well, what what struck me? I mean, I remember exactly 164 00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:15.440 where I was when I when I heard the news. 165 00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:19.639 I was out on a multi day bicycle ride, actually, 166 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:21.720 and we had a we had written all day, and 167 00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:24.519 we had a TV on in the room, everybody just 168 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:27.480 kind of preparing for the next day, and the news 169 00:11:27.519 --> 00:11:30.960 came on. And you know, always Vegas, you know, because 170 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:34.039 I live in Vegas, and there's always a Vegas related 171 00:11:34.279 --> 00:11:38.559 story that's interesting to me. I like to write about underdogs, 172 00:11:38.840 --> 00:11:43.440 and and they just couldn't seem you know. I followed 173 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:47.600 the case, and they couldn't seem to find the killer, 174 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:51.200 and so I gravitate towards that sort of thing to 175 00:11:51.879 --> 00:11:54.639 try to you know. I don't know if I can 176 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:56.879 say try to help, but you know, try to get 177 00:11:56.879 --> 00:12:00.200 to the bottom of it and kind of investigate up myself. 178 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:03.399 And I just think it's a sad case. I think 179 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:06.559 it's sad that that whoever killed her has not been 180 00:12:06.600 --> 00:12:10.159 brought to justice. You know. It's I feel like I 181 00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:12.399 know Susan. I came close to meeting her, but I 182 00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:15.200 never did, and I think whose story needed to be told. 183 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:18.720 Okay, let's go back now a little bit to give 184 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:22.720 people a background Davy Berman. We need to know a 185 00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:25.600 little bit about him. What I thought was interesting living 186 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:27.759 in Winnipeg here for the past sixteen years is that 187 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.679 Davy Berman volunteered for the army up in Canada to 188 00:12:31.720 --> 00:12:34.440 fight in the Second World War. Tell us something about 189 00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:36.919 why he joined the Canadian Army and how did he 190 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:38.759 fare in the military. Tell us a little bit about 191 00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:40.279 that stories. I think it's very interesting. 192 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:44.159 Yeah, America wanted to take him. You know, he had 193 00:12:44.200 --> 00:12:46.799 a bit of a record and they wanted you know, 194 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:48.840 it was obvious. I mean he was you know, he 195 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:51.279 was in the gambling and you know in Minnesota and 196 00:12:51.320 --> 00:12:55.720 Stephani and everybody knew he hung out with not hung out, 197 00:12:55.720 --> 00:12:57.559 but he was one of the monsters. He was coming 198 00:12:57.639 --> 00:13:02.200 up in the ranks and in the and really the 199 00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:07.080 Jewish mafia back then. And what was that nineteen. I 200 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:10.240 think they moved to Vegas around forty five, didn't they, 201 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:14.080 right forty I think the same. I think Susan was 202 00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:16.759 six months old when she moved here, so it was 203 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:19.840 long before he'd met her mother and his brother chickie, 204 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:22.720 you know, who stayed by his side, you know, his 205 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:28.600 whole life. He joined up too, and he he ended 206 00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:30.360 up being I don't have the book in front of me, 207 00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:33.320 but he ended up being decorated, you know with what 208 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:36.879 he did and did actually actually an exemplary job, and 209 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:40.159 he wanted to fight and be part of them, you know, 210 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:44.960 help and he and so the Canadians welcomed him with 211 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:47.200 open armed right. 212 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:49.240 It's just that, Yeah, it's an interesting. 213 00:13:49.639 --> 00:13:52.360 People wanted to join up in the military back then. 214 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:55.799 The guys were dying to get in, sure, you know. 215 00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:00.759 But now so he he was the honorable discharged from 216 00:14:00.759 --> 00:14:03.720 the military, and then you had alluded to it a 217 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:06.360 little bit. He does have a criminal background for robbery 218 00:14:06.399 --> 00:14:10.279 and did some time about seven years before any of 219 00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:13.519 this Las Vegas situation happened. But tell us a little 220 00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:16.240 bit more about Davy Berman, the character. I found it 221 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:19.440 very interesting to say he wanted to volunteer for the military, 222 00:14:19.480 --> 00:14:23.320 He did an exemplary job. He was decorated. The thing is, 223 00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:25.960 was they tell us a little bit about his character. 224 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:29.600 Was he a hard drinking, womanizing guy? Gambler tell us 225 00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:31.960 about who Davy Berman was. It's because it seems to 226 00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:35.519 be very interesting aspect of the contrast Davey Berman the 227 00:14:35.559 --> 00:14:36.200 gangster and. 228 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:45.240 Well he actually his demeanor and whatnot. He was rather quiet, charming, 229 00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:48.840 but quiet, and he certainly wasn't a Tony Spilatra or 230 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:52.639 anything like that. I mean, it's your gentleman, if you 231 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:55.559 can call them that, gentleman mafia, you know, and it 232 00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:58.080 was it was the Jewish mob. And you know, Maya Lance, 233 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:01.320 Mayor Lansky came here and you know, Bugsy Siegel of 234 00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:04.399 course took over the Flamingo and you know, hooked up 235 00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:07.480 with they all were hooked up together, and they brought 236 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:10.399 in in people to help run it. And Davy was 237 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:13.559 brought in from was he in Minnesota at that time? 238 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:16.399 I think he was brought in to run the Flamingo 239 00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:20.559 hotel and here they I mean, he went to synagogue 240 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:23.519 every Saturday. Like he told Susan, you know, you go 241 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:25.440 buy the synagogue and tell her, you know, I built 242 00:15:25.480 --> 00:15:27.399 that for you. He did it, of course, because I 243 00:15:27.519 --> 00:15:31.279 verify that people in their eighties who said nope, the 244 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:33.600 boys down the street may have donated some money and 245 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:35.200 he may have done one of them, but he didn't 246 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:39.240 build it. But he was just here in Las Vegas. 247 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:45.720 They'd almost come here to legitimize himself because they'd become philanthropists, 248 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:48.120 and you know, I mean they named them pillars of 249 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:51.759 the community. And there was an understanding that they could 250 00:15:51.799 --> 00:15:55.279 come here and do business, but they couldn't kill within 251 00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:57.879 the borders. You want to do anything like that, you 252 00:15:57.960 --> 00:16:02.440 go outside the border of Nevada and across the state 253 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:08.159 line and it's fine. So they they actually legitimized themselves 254 00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:10.600 here and they were allowed to do the rackets, and 255 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:13.759 everybody knew they were skimming, you know, for the mob, 256 00:16:13.879 --> 00:16:18.320 and that's what he did. But he was a nice man. 257 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:20.919 He was you know, Susan was in love with her father. 258 00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:24.720 You know, she was a daddy's girl, and he was 259 00:16:24.759 --> 00:16:26.919 a nice man. His father, Shaky, was a little loud 260 00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:29.519 of hand and not a leader. But Davy was a leader, 261 00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:32.799 but very quiet and kept he kept at low profile. 262 00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:35.960 Now let's go back a little bit too. 263 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:38.639 Told us we the lucky land slops. You can get 264 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:40.360 lucky just about anywhere. 265 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:44.000 This is your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and 266 00:16:44.039 --> 00:16:45.799 the weather's fine, but we're just going to circle up 267 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:49.080 here a while and get lucky. Oh no, nothing like that. 268 00:16:49.159 --> 00:16:51.600 It's just these cash prizes ad up quick. So I 269 00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:53.919 suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right, 270 00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:55.399 and start getting lucky. 271 00:16:56.039 --> 00:16:58.840 Play for free at lucky landslips dot com. Are you 272 00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:02.600 feeling lucky? No purchase necessary void. We're prohibited by Law 273 00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:06.160 eighteen plus. Terms and conditions apply any website for detail. 274 00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:09.720 So a little bit about Susan's mother, Gladys. What was 275 00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:12.599 she really like and what was her life as a 276 00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:17.039 wife of a mobster? How do things work with Gladys? 277 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:20.440 Well, it actually scared her to death and she you know, 278 00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:22.480 she didn't know, of course that he was in the 279 00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:25.680 mafia when she married him, and and he brought her 280 00:17:25.720 --> 00:17:29.839 in Susie, to Las Vegas to run you know, he 281 00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:32.319 was going to have a high position in the Flamenia Hotel, 282 00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:35.240 and of course, you know, jumped forward a little bit. 283 00:17:35.319 --> 00:17:38.400 Susan of course learned she hadn't learned until she was 284 00:17:38.440 --> 00:17:42.559 in college what he did. At least that's what she said. 285 00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:46.880 But there was a you know, one of her I 286 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:48.960 know that. You know, her mother had a couple of 287 00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:53.200 nervorous breakdowns because of the pressure. And you know, they 288 00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:56.279 when they built their house, they had a cute little 289 00:17:56.279 --> 00:18:02.160 English tutor on downtown on Seventh Avenue. I believe it 290 00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:05.480 was six or seventh and Q and now it's a 291 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:08.839 little teeny tiny law office. But the back window and 292 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:10.720 you can go by it and see it on the alley. 293 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:13.720 The back window was really really high in her bedroom 294 00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:16.319 and they raised it so they're couldn't be a drive 295 00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:21.599 by shooting. And so Gladys knew what he did. And 296 00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:25.559 when there'd be mob uprising, he would send them to 297 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:28.799 La or he'd go with them and they'd go hang 298 00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:31.079 out and see at the bel Air or the Beverly 299 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:36.880 Hills Hotel and shop and that sort of thing, and 300 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:39.920 take her to Sometimes they go to New York, but 301 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:43.240 most part they just go to Los Angeles to get away, 302 00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:46.359 and then when things would settle down, they'd come back 303 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:51.519 into town. So Gladys didn't take it well and she 304 00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:56.559 went away when she left when Susan was still in 305 00:18:56.599 --> 00:19:00.279 grade school. Soon they put her in what they i know, 306 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:03.519 assisted living whatever it was back then, you know, arrest 307 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:06.880 home too, and she had shock treatments and all of that. 308 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:09.680 So her mother it was it was a sad existence 309 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:12.720 for a mother. So she wasn't the typical you know, 310 00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:16.000 mob wise who enjoyed going to parties and stuff like that. 311 00:19:16.039 --> 00:19:19.240 It wasn't like that, right, and they kept a low profile. 312 00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:21.559 I had meetings at the house, you know, all the 313 00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:24.880 big guys, and there was a bodyguard who basically lived 314 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:28.480 with them and took Susan everywhere. I would go to 315 00:19:28.599 --> 00:19:29.279 La with them. 316 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:33.920 So it was it was a pretty uh protected existence 317 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:37.079 for Susan and was very separate from what we might 318 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:39.319 think is a mob existence or a mob lifestyle. She 319 00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:40.680 was very isolated like that. 320 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:43.960 Yeah, she was. I mean the interesting thing is you 321 00:19:43.960 --> 00:19:45.640 can go to the library, and I did. I went 322 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:49.680 to one of the main main libraries and you can 323 00:19:49.720 --> 00:19:51.960 pick up the old you can go look at the 324 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:55.160 old telephone Book's going to have it in the in 325 00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:57.960 the book. But you go to and you sum through 326 00:19:57.960 --> 00:19:59.960 the telephone books and you can look up up there 327 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:04.359 on seventh Avenue, sixth Avenue, fourth Avenue. All the mob 328 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:06.960 guys went there, just look come up. The names are 329 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:09.359 all on the phone book. And that was part of it. 330 00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:12.440 It was almost like a guy's you know it's it was. 331 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:15.880 They were just regular Joe and they were accepted and 332 00:20:16.359 --> 00:20:19.079 never questioned, and you ask anybody. I did a story 333 00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:22.119 a while back for I think it was Israeli Light 334 00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:24.759 or something. It was a few years ago, and interviewed 335 00:20:24.759 --> 00:20:27.680 a lot of children who went to school during that 336 00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:32.440 time and they felt safe, and a couple of them said, 337 00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:34.400 you know, nothing ever happened when we had the mob 338 00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:37.640 run in the town. It was a safer place and 339 00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:41.279 people didn't lock their doors and they you know, they 340 00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:44.240 didn't give anybody in town any trouble. You know, they 341 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:47.200 did whatever they did, but you know, nobody talked about it. 342 00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:48.480 Didn't make the papers much. 343 00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:53.519 Sure now a name everyone will recognize as that of 344 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:57.319 Bugsy Siegel. I'm played by Warren Beatty in Bugsy, and 345 00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:01.599 please explain it to it, but please explain the actual 346 00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:05.799 arrangement that existed involving Seagull, davey Berman and Meyer Lansky 347 00:21:05.799 --> 00:21:08.680 in regards to the Flamingo. And then, as sort of 348 00:21:08.680 --> 00:21:12.240 an an additional question, what happened after Bugsy was killed? 349 00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:14.960 So maybe you can tell us about it's it's talked 350 00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:17.160 about in the movie. I don't you know, you did 351 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:19.519 the research, so I don't know how accurate it every 352 00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:22.640 every aspect of it is, but talk to us. 353 00:21:23.240 --> 00:21:25.519 I mean I've got yeah, I've got the most most 354 00:21:25.559 --> 00:21:31.759 of it down. But uh, Davy wasn't the person who ran, 355 00:21:32.039 --> 00:21:34.000 you know, I mean he helped run the casino when 356 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:38.519 he came in. And you know, Buggy Seagull was you know, 357 00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:41.680 he practically begged to come into into Vegas and said 358 00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:43.799 he could do it. And you know, they didn't really 359 00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:46.680 have a high end casino at that time, and it 360 00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:50.799 was considered the fling. Flamingo was considered way south on 361 00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:54.000 this strip, you know, as far as south as you go, 362 00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:56.240 and it was just nothing but desert all around them, 363 00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:01.400 and he had all these lofty ideas and it he 364 00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:05.400 bought it from a guy named Is Wilkins. He bought 365 00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:07.839 the Flamingo from a guy who went belly up. He 366 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:11.799 tried to tried to build a hotel and couldn't couldn't 367 00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:15.359 finish building it, couldn't get it off the ground, couldn't 368 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:18.640 get enough backers, and so Busy talked the mob into 369 00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:21.160 buying it, and you know they bankrolled and then he 370 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:25.880 would run it. And you know Bugsy was, you know, 371 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:29.200 kicking off a few people on the mob and you 372 00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:33.920 know whatever, for whatever reason, you know, they they offed 373 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:39.079 him and waiting in the casino at that moment, and 374 00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:42.799 they got a phone call it's done or it's over 375 00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:45.920 or whatever, and that from the moment he was shot 376 00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:48.920 and they got worried. They instantly hadn't even made the 377 00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:51.920 news yet, of course back then wasn't in the papers 378 00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:56.640 for another day. And they they the moment he was dead, 379 00:22:57.160 --> 00:23:01.200 they took over the Flamingo and that's why and Davy started. 380 00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:05.200 He was the head, He was the head guy, and 381 00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:07.440 it was all the skim and then you know, it 382 00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:10.920 was the you know, the Jewish model out the Italians in, 383 00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:14.319 you know, so it's uh and it all sort of 384 00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:19.160 you know, intertwined itself. But you know, whether that was 385 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:21.400 by design or not, you know, to bring him in 386 00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:24.599 for better appearances and not being Italian or something, I 387 00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:27.680 don't know, but it seemed to work very well back then. 388 00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:30.599 That's that's how he took over. And he was the 389 00:23:31.359 --> 00:23:34.720 anointed one when dougsy died, to be the one who 390 00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:37.720 ran the place right now. 391 00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:42.480 Susan's father, Davey Berman died in nineteen fifty seven. How 392 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:45.079 did he die and was there any question as how 393 00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:47.519 as to how he had died and why? 394 00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:53.519 Well, he had he actually had surgery and Henderson, you know, 395 00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:58.119 nearby Henderson at a hospital, but he I believe it 396 00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:01.640 was Gobladder surgery or one of those types of surgeries. 397 00:24:01.720 --> 00:24:07.519 And Susie was twelve years old and it was just 398 00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:12.799 he was going in for surgery and he I, you know, 399 00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:15.480 and all the research I did, I you know, what 400 00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:18.720 I found was they had like left a sponge inside 401 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:21.240