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Speaker 1: What is up, fellowsikos, I am dan Fa Valley coming

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at you with my one, my only, my certified fantabulous

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co host, mister Grant Hughes. You know what time it is,

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now that we're almost two weeks into the NBA season.

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Is we are going to take stock of some of

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the most dominant starts in the NBA and decide whether

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or not they're for real, and then we'll wrap up

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with like a couple of just quick notes on things

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that we're monitoring. But we've isolated a handful of teams

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that are, by their point differential, by their record, however

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you want to frame it, they are lording over the

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rest of the league and we need to endeavor to

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find out is this real or is this not? Before

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we get started, mister Grant Hughes, how are you doing.

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Speaker 2: I'm ready to get off to a hot start here.

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How about that, Let's be let's just keep everything focused

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on getting out of the gates quickly. I think just

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before we start, I do enjoy that we have some

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usual suspects and some very unusual suspects for these hot starts,

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so we have the right mix for discussion purposes.

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Speaker 1: I think here having looked, and we'll go in order

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of their point differential right now, because I think the

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first team people are gonna be like, oh, like these guys,

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but we're just coming by point differential. Had I needed

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to pick which teams would have made this list before

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the season, I'm pretty sure of the ones that made

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the cut here, I might have been able to predict

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two of them. I don't know that I saw the

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others coming.

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Speaker 2: And at least that many would have been teams you

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would have projected to get off to horrible starts. And

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I'm speaking for myself. So right, we really covered all

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the bases.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's figure out grant if we need to adjust

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to our priors. The sleeper of all sleepers, the Denver Nuggets.

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They are. Look, they did lose their opening game, so

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like that was you know, maybe that was cause for concern.

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They lost that game to the Warriors. They've also played

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the Suns, the Timberwolves without Anthony Edwards, as well as

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the New Orleans Pelicans. That was a third quarter to behold.

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I don't know if you call not not unless your

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Pelicans fan. Grant in that game would have been your

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impressions of the Nuggets so far.

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Speaker 2: Grant, Well, you mentioned that the game that they lost,

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Aaron Gordon had fifty points and hit ten threes, So

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clearly he's a deeply selfish player and just went out

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to get his Like the fact that that's the game

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they lost when he was unbelievable, it just kind of

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speaks to they're really good. They have beaten bad teams.

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They beat the Suns. No, as you mentioned with the Wolves,

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the Pelicans barely count as an opponent at this point.

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With the way things are falling apart there, this is

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roughly what should have been expected. In fact, even you've

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mentioned here and on the Look Aheads, Adam Manas said

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he thought Jokic would be sort of not passive but

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not shoot the ball as often have a lower usage rate,

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but be extremely efficient, averaging fourteen shots a game. That's

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the lowest he's averaged since twenty seventeen eighteen, And I

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have this is a plus one thing.

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Speaker 1: I have the same thing in my notes, that same note,

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and just to add to it, the second lowest permit

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it field goal attempts of his career, so since he

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was a rookie.

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Speaker 2: Also hasn't hit a three this year. I mean he has,

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but he's shooting it terribly from three and has gotten

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him up. So like maybe if you're pointing to passivity

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or whatever, like he's there's a large percentage for him

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of his shots have been threes despite them not going in.

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The typical stuff is happening with him on the court

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plus twenty point two, but the Nuggets are plus five

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point eight per hundred with Yokic off. So that's again

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we'll just say now and then so we don't have

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to say it again, even though I probably will small

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sample caveats blah blah blah. But the idea that this

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is a better Denver bench than we've seen so far

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has held up because the Nuggets have been not just

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like treading water but actually good. Without Jokic on the floor,

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I'd imagine that'll come down a little bit, but just

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breaking even would be spectacular based on the historical precedent there.

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Got to ask you about Cam Johnson to me kind

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of just been a guy out there. That was my

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major impression of him. What are your thoughts there? Is

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this an adjustment period? Is this just something about his

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game that's different from Michael Porter Junior is who.

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Speaker 1: Needs an adjustment period. Playing next to Nicoli open.

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Speaker 2: The question, right, everything should be easier.

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Speaker 1: I think I think he's gonna figure it out. He's

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gone like the way that he's his hierarchy of offense

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has changed over the past few years. This is sort

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of night and day from a lot of stuff that

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Brooklyn was doing with him last year. I think he

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will ultimately be fine. And also, all that matters is

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that the Nuggets saved all that sweet, sweet tax money,

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which is just what's equally important. I look the other

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thing you mentioned, the depth, and by the way, they

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have the second best bench point differential in the league

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per one hundred possessions. Right now, that's that is not

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something that we sit here and ever say about the Nuggets.

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I feel four games into a season, maybe we have

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and I'm just misremembering. That's huge. Jamal Murray looking more

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like Jamal Murray out of the gate for a lot

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of the time. That's been huge for them as well.

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The other guy that's really impressed me. Still, you look

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at it, it's like, we'll be cool if he shot

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more threes like man Peyton Watson in this regime, like

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they just they're plugging more minutes elsewhere, and you mentioned

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the time without Jokic. I know this will come down

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sixty percent on two and forty three percent on threes

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when Yokich isn't on the court. I will have to

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see how that holds up against some stiffer competition. But

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if you're here as the Nuggets grant, and you're looking

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at this and you're saying, this is how Cam Johnson

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has played thus far, aren't you feeling pretty good about Like, yeah,

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you can look at the schedule and say, right, we

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lost to the Warriors, and we beat up on a

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bunch of teams that we should have beaten. And even

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that the Minnesota game without Aunt, when I had watched

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the beginning was like, oh no, this is not this

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is gonna be like a weird night. They ended up

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pulling it out. It was fine, So you beat three

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teams you should have. I still feel really really good

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about the Nuggets. A lot of Denver media Nuggets fans

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it said, this is the deepest team that's ever been

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assembled around Nikola Jokich, and I think that all already

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just a handful of games end of the season, you

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could probably comfortably sit here and say, yeah, I don't like,

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I don't know what the alternative selection.

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Speaker 2: Would be, which is funny because there's like two to

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four playable bodies off the bench, and that's kind of it,

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and that just by their standards in the past, that

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that gets it done.

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Speaker 1: Tim Hardaway Junior is I never thought there would have

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been like any at this point, any sort of four

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or five game stretch where he's hopping around like fifty

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percent from three. They kind of just needed that guy

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to come in and there's still not a high volume

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three point shooting team, but look between him and the

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three point champion to be Aaron Gordon, kind of just

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like helping you space the floor as you get away,

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as you go through whatever. This Cam Johnson stretches.

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Speaker 2: One point of it's it's in red on my sheet,

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so it's kind of that. That's how I'm color coding.

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They're like, hey, look out, potentials. They're fifth in defense

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when I put these together a couple of days ago,

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so let's just call it a top ten defense. That's

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with opponents shooting thirty two point seven percent from three,

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so that'll come up, and they're giving up a lot

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of threes. Opponents are getting up the seventh most uh

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per hunter possessions against Denver. The other thing is they're

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not defending the rim. Well, they're limiting shots, but opponents

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are shooting like seventy four percent at the rim. That's

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been kind of baked into the Denver experience in years past.

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But some of the under the hood defensive stuff is

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I think a potential problem. But like that's just to say,

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you know, Denver is not going to be defined by

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its defense anyway. That's that's just possibly given the quality

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or lack of quality of competition so far, something to

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flag to kind of to see if you know, if this,

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if this start cools off. I don't think it'll be

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because Cam Johnson continues to not, you know, shoot forty

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percent from the field and is getting up like six

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shots a game. It'll be just because some of the

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defensive stuff is a little more problematic than it's been

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so far.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that I that's a good point. I'm just wondering,

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do you think some of their top units, just when

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you have Christian Brown, if Peyton Wats is going to

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play a little more Aaron Gordon, of course, I wonder

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if just their core units, like maybe their top by

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the end of the year, like two or three lineups, it's, oh,

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they're defending it a top ten defensive pace.

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Speaker 2: And that's all that That's all that'll matter is how

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good are those the five guys for them, you know,

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more so than most other teams. Like if you can

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put a passable defensive lineup on the floor, that's going

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to be enough. Assuming Johnson plays a little better. Gordon

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really is just you know, nobody, Gordon's not a nine

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out of ten or ten out of eleven three point shooter.

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But between last year and how he started this year,

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like that might just be we might need to adjust

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our expectations for like how well he's gonna shoot it

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and how much of a spacing value add he might be. Now,

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so the offense is going to be great, it's just

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do you get the do you get like a number

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fifteen defensive rating? You know, out of your best your

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your most used like playoff or crunch time unit. I

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think that's that's very achievable given the personnel.

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Speaker 1: The one final point of contention I have with this team,

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No Yonis Valanciunis nicol Jokic minutes in the regular season,

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Yet what's going on here up is that right, I

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thought they were.

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Speaker 2: I thought they were going to go to that more often.

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That's missed opportunity.

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Speaker 1: For sure, they do have the one thirty one seven

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offensive rating when Yoa's Valentiu. This is on the court

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without Nikoli jokicch and that's just I don't want to

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boil it down to that, but that is one of

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the biggest differences of this team is that the drop

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off in steadiness from Jokic to his backup is as

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narrow as it's ever been. And I'm also we didn't

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get into this enough, but you didn't mention how he's

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taking fewer shots and how his job overall just seems

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just a little bit easier. How big of a deal

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is that when you're talking about this is a playoff team.

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I think that this is ultimate. Look his numbers. He's

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getting triple doubles in every game, so he will still

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factor pre eminently into the MVP discussion. But if this

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becomes a year to where it's Nikoliokic doesn't need to

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finish in the top two of MVP voting for the

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Nuggets to be a three seed a two seed in

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the Western Conference, doesn't it Just I don't know the

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idea this is stupid, but the idea of Nikoliokic going

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through a regular season to averagely like thirty three and

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thirty four minutes a game res than thirty six or

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thirty seven, Yeah, feels like a really really big deal

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and maybe we'll get more games as the season goes

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on where it's like dekol Jokic didn't have to play

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a bunch in that fourth quarter.

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Speaker 2: That to me is always the goal with a player

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like him or even just your older stars, is like

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could you just can you be up twenty five in

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the third quarter and his night's just over like that?

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That to me is like the ideal kind of the

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load management stand in right, like, yeah, you maybe you

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can play the second night of the back to back

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if you only if we only needed you for twenty

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six minutes or whatever because we blew a team out.

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I think too, like, yes, as a preservative thing, it's

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great if he just the lift is lighter during the

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season because when you get to the postseason at some

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point he sort of just will have to be the

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be all end all, which is like what you know,

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that's the job when you're when you're as good as

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he is, I also think he wants to play this way.

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I don't think you know what I mean, Like he's

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always been the most reluctant shooter among elite scorers that

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there's ever been, so like if he gets to just

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kind of facilitate more, I think he's probably happier about that.

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So that's kind of a two way win there. It's just, yeah,

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he's taxed less severely and he kind of gets to

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do what he wants to do, which is which is nice.

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Speaker 1: Whose offensive start is more concerning for you very quickly,

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Christian Brown or Cam Johnson.

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Speaker 2: Cam Johnson just just because like he's replacing a guy

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whose entire value was offensive and Brown is just kind of,

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you know.

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Speaker 1: Still fine inside the arc to three point percentage, though

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it is always just weird with him. So the final

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final question, Grant, is this Nuggets team real? It's a

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tough one.

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Speaker 2: I know I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go a pretty

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firm yes on that one. We liked him before the season.

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What's not to like? You got Jokic?

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Speaker 1: I mean, their phonies don't speak on my behalf. I

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think it can start his completely turn down.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about the San Antonio Spurs again, except it's

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not just a Wemby conversation. We talked about Wemby last week,

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but the Spurs, as we're recording this grant, have they

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lost the game? They have not lost the game.

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Speaker 2: It blows my mind that five, this five and oh

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start is the first one they've ever had. How is

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that possible that.

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Speaker 1: If Dunk was the most overrated player in NBA history, you.

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Speaker 2: Could only count on Tim Duncan four out of every

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five nights. That's what everybody's always said about him. He

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just doesn't show up. Were you thrown by that? I

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couldn't believe. I assumed they'd had like a nine and

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oh or a ten and oh start at some point.

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Speaker 1: I would have assumed that they had multiple of the

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right just looking back at the teams that they fielded,

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it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Uh, well you got So. We've talked a lot about

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the Spurs and Wemby. We can definitely do more of that.

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I just think, like, of course they have the number

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one defensive rating per cleaning the glass. I don't think

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it's quite as good if you factor in garbage time.

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But just for everything we discussed already about what he

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does to an opposing offense, like just are there good?

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Are they gonna be number one all season? Is everybody

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like are the thunder gonna get back up there?

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know, because crazy Wemby is, he's

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like a defensive system unto himself and the starting unit.

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Grant opponents are actually shooting thirty nine point five percent

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against the Spurs is starting five, but only forty one

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point three percent on twoes, including forty five point seven

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percent at the rim and forty point six percent from

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float or range. That is that is insanity, and that's like, yes,

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that is Wemby driven, but also having Steph Castle's a monster,

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and so that's going to certainly help. The other thing

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that I think has really helped this team to try

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and deviate away from Wemby, Like what is the way

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to go here? Tylan Harper is might I know the

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shooting percentage isn't quite there yet, but is probably their

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best driver when you're just looking at the passes. He

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is thrown out of those things. I know dearon Fox

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has not played yet. Of course that's been huge for them.

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And the other element here is just when Luke Cornett

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is on the floor with I like the stuff with

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Luke Cordett and Wemby is fun, but when Luke Cornette

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is on the floor without Wemby, they are plus twenty

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one point two per one hundred and a one to

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twenty two point five offensive rating. And just kind of

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to that point, I think that Mitch Johnson's done a

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really nice job of this might get into the question

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of Okay, I know they don't have Fox, I know

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they don't have Jeremy Sohan right now, but am I

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getting into the question of are they a little bit

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top heavier than we thought? I just feel like he's

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done a really good job in those secondary units of

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stocking them with starters to ensure that they're gonna be

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able to tread water or make those minutes together. And

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just the you know Devin Vessel, who's been really good

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00:15:37,919 --> 00:15:40,320
to start the O. That's our guy, Devin Vessell, validating

336
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,120
everything we thought about him. The minutes with no Wemby,

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but at least two of him Castle and Harper like

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they Buy and Large been really good, especially the Viceell

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and Harper minutes. And so I like the way that

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Mitch Johnson is kind of fused and fiddled with the

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rotation patterns. I'm just wondering if I know Dearon Fox

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is gonna come back, But is like the rotation a

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little bit top heavier than because it's they're not short

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on guards at the moment really when you were thinking

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about it, So what does that do to the rotation?

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00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,759
Is it, Oh, we're gonna see a trickle down effect

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00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,840
of Julian Champenny getting fewer minutes. He really can't because

348
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,960
I think you need his wing presence. But I'm very

349
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,679
curious to see how he handles that to this point though,

350
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I like what he's done during a lot of the

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00:16:25,039 --> 00:16:27,080
non Wemby minutes. That was my long winded way of

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just saying those like abies, no.

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Speaker 2: That that has to be noted because he's just just

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strip it all the way down and they're they're basically

355
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break even with with women Yama off the floor cleaning

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the glasses point point zero plus point zero one, which

357
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is when you know, given the youth and given how

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much of the shot creation is being handled by inexperienced players.

359
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That's kind of incredible. I just think I think Harper

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and Castle have both wildly exceeded my high expectations for them.

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Harper in particular, as we got into the season and

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we saw some preseason sample, which there wasn't a ton of,

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00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:06,960
you did start to hear from a lot of people, Oh,

364
00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:09,440
he knows how to play, or he's ready and all

365
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:13,319
that stuff, Like he has so much craft and is

366
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so comfortable like physically attacking the basket and just a

367
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,480
really he has such a broad variety of finishes. I've

368
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:21,880
watched a ton of this burst, so like, I have

369
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,880
a lot of thoughts on them. He seems like he's

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00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:27,720
going to be a rookie and he hasn't shot it

371
00:17:27,759 --> 00:17:34,000
well from three so far. Either maybe he won't, which

372
00:17:34,039 --> 00:17:35,880
is great. I mean he should have the ball a ton,

373
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,279
but but yeah, so off the dribble is maybe more important.

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00:17:39,279 --> 00:17:43,319
But his ability to get downhill and get like compromise

375
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the defense as a driver, and he's just he's a

376
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really really good He's a legitimate point guard, Like he

377
00:17:48,799 --> 00:17:52,599
sees the floor like a true point guard creatively sees

378
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,119
the pass. That's like the second easiest pass to see.

379
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,640
You know it's not he's like moved past the automatic

380
00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:01,400
strong side corner if it's the guy's left open. Like

381
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,319
all the basics are totally like he does that, you

382
00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,079
know just by rote, but like he sees the second

383
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,799
pass in the third pass and creates other Like he's legitimate.

384
00:18:10,839 --> 00:18:13,400
I think he's gonna be a positively impactful player as

385
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,880
a rookie and castle the shooting is what it is.

386
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:19,799
Like he's shooting. He is getting him up enough, but

387
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:24,640
there are definitely stretches where the game plan is to

388
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leave him alone and dare him to shoot because that's

389
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,000
a good possession for the opposing defense. But he brings

390
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,359
so much defensively and he brings so much attacking the

391
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,680
basket that he's been a major positive too. Here's the question,

392
00:18:37,839 --> 00:18:41,039
would you feel better about the Spurs right now if

393
00:18:41,079 --> 00:18:44,160
Dearon Fox and his contract were not on this roster

394
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,240
and you just had that flexibility in that space and

395
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,119
what you might be able to do with it to

396
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,000
address what you're talking about, which is maybe the lack

397
00:18:53,039 --> 00:18:56,000
of a wing or a forward that's like a dead

398
00:18:56,039 --> 00:18:59,279
eye shooter or a two way guy with size because

399
00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:02,519
I think Harp and Castle have been so impressive that

400
00:19:02,559 --> 00:19:04,680
it's a discussion you kind of have to have. Maybe

401
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:06,720
it's a good problem, but it's it's one that needs

402
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:07,799
to discussed.

403
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,039
Speaker 1: Right I think I would. So you need to tell

404
00:19:11,039 --> 00:19:13,079
me who are you replacing Daron Fox with.

405
00:19:13,559 --> 00:19:16,480
Speaker 2: Just like the flexibility, So yeah, if not unless I

406
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:17,960
give you I guess it's not fair if I don't

407
00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:18,640
give you a name.

408
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:20,400
Speaker 1: Right, But even if you were telling me it was

409
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,920
the flex I'd rather have Daron Fox because one of

410
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,240
the things you mentioned with Harper is the ball needs

411
00:19:26,279 --> 00:19:27,319
to be and is going to need to be in

412
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his hands a ton right now, You're still gonna want

413
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:30,599
to see it in his hands a ton, But him

414
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,400
and Daron Fox just based off the way that Dylan

415
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,880
Harper has played some of the decisions, like he's made

416
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:36,759
off the catch. If you can put him in more

417
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:39,640
of those situations where Daron Fox is the focal point,

418
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,640
where it's Dylan Harper is going to attack from the

419
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,920
second side, that's I think going to optimize Dylan Harper

420
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,160
and Daron Fox together. Now, where I think you might

421
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,720
get into issues is are can you play all three

422
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,400
of those guys together. That's a fair question, but I

423
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,319
don't know if you need to answer it. I think

424
00:19:55,319 --> 00:19:56,960
you've shown that you can play two of these guys

425
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,839
together already without an issue. You maybe now you have

426
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,359
Fox and Castle struggle together, you do have the outlet

427
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,039
of well, Castle and Harper like have more of this

428
00:20:06,079 --> 00:20:09,960
inbuilt chemistry and familiarity. Now. I'm actually more excited to

429
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,640
see the things that they'll be able to do offensively,

430
00:20:13,759 --> 00:20:16,880
And maybe it makes Victor Wembinyama's job even harder to

431
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,119
wear the paint touches that we all like, Does he

432
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,480
have to like not even work as hard to get

433
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,119
them now? Too? What I would be concerned about, aside

434
00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:29,720
from the typical of the three guard stuff, two of

435
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:34,720
them are questionable shooters. What happens to Wenby offensively? If

436
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,039
he's going to be like with Castle right now, it's

437
00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:38,759
not as big of a deal. But if there's a

438
00:20:38,799 --> 00:20:41,240
Harper and Fox unit and that becomes a core lineup

439
00:20:41,279 --> 00:20:45,319
for you, does Victor Webbinyama does he get marginalized at

440
00:20:45,319 --> 00:20:45,599
all on that?

441
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:45,839
Speaker 2: Well?

442
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,799
Speaker 1: What people have loved what he's done this season, but like,

443
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:50,519
is he gonna turn into more of kind of a

444
00:20:50,839 --> 00:20:52,519
I don't want to call him a space in place

445
00:20:52,559 --> 00:20:55,160
guy during those minutes. And that's fine for some possessions

446
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,640
for sure, but you don't want to see that just

447
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,559
because one, this is so much fun what we're watching

448
00:21:00,599 --> 00:21:02,880
right now from him grant, it's just like insane. But

449
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,079
also two, the variety that he's shown on offense, I

450
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,359
think is what's been more valuable than anything.

451
00:21:09,079 --> 00:21:11,880
Speaker 2: So I'm glad you brought that up because I think

452
00:21:12,559 --> 00:21:14,480
this is a little bit separate from the how do

453
00:21:14,519 --> 00:21:18,079
you fit these three guards together? And my short answer

454
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,440
to that would just be I don't know how, but

455
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it can't be by reducing. What I don't want is

456
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Harper to play fewer than the twenty six minutes he's

457
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played so far this season. And I don't want Castle

458
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to play less than the thirty one and change he's

459
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:31,960
played so far. So, however you need to make that

460
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,680
happen to get Fox's minutes. It's gonna pull from McLaughlin,

461
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,279
it's gonna pull from Champagne, it might pull from Harrison Barnes. Great,

462
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,480
just don't reduce Harper in Castle's minutes is one but

463
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two with Wemby still up in the air. As far

464
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as like what are you offensively right The answer has

465
00:21:48,599 --> 00:21:51,000
kind of been like everything I guess so far because

466
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,039
he's kind of canned the high volume threes, he's getting

467
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the line more effectively. But to me right now, I

468
00:21:58,839 --> 00:22:03,039
think he feels like an evolutionary like Yannis type player

469
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where the goal is to get him going downhill in

470
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,359
space because he's able to change direction, he's able to

471
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finish over the top, he's able to extend, like all

472
00:22:12,839 --> 00:22:15,480
this stuff to me, like forget the Oh my god,

473
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,480
he's seven five and he's gonna shoot twelve three is

474
00:22:17,519 --> 00:22:19,039
a game which is kind of what things looked like

475
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,319
last year. Like if you're trying to project forward, what's

476
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:25,440
his role? I think the downhill on ball attacking to

477
00:22:25,519 --> 00:22:28,640
me right now looks like the future for him. And

478
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,240
how does adding a third guard that needs the ball

479
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,759
to the mix effect that, because right now, like I

480
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:38,839
just his ability to attack. We may just get to

481
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,559
a point where it looks like how Yanis gets defended,

482
00:22:41,599 --> 00:22:45,000
where everybody is pulled in and everybody's shading to him

483
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,720
and the three point shooting around him becomes critical and

484
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,160
this weird setup where now you have three point guards

485
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,440
playing together, none of whom are major threats from three

486
00:22:53,519 --> 00:22:57,519
that's weird, right, So one, Webby's good enough to adjust.

487
00:22:58,079 --> 00:23:00,839
But if the case, if it's the case that well,

488
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,319
the best offensive version of the Spurs is Wemby on

489
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,880
the ball in a space floor attacking downhill like Giannis does.

490
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,119
Then things get weird, right, Like it doesn't The pieces

491
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,119
don't quite fit there, So that'll be something I'm monitoring

492
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,759
going forward. It's like, it's great that this is a

493
00:23:15,759 --> 00:23:18,279
thing you have to contend with because one Wemby has

494
00:23:18,279 --> 00:23:21,079
this dimension that is new and very cool and effective,

495
00:23:21,079 --> 00:23:23,640
and two you've got all these good on ball guards

496
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,599
that you've got to figure out what to do with. Like, right,

497
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,759
it's a good space to be in, but there are

498
00:23:28,839 --> 00:23:32,480
scenarios where it gets clunky in a hurry. If this

499
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,839
is what Wemby's going to be, which who knows, right,

500
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,880
maybe there's like a third evolutionary step for him.

501
00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 1: I think if it becomes a concern or I just

502
00:23:43,039 --> 00:23:44,720
feel like they will go out of their way to

503
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,799
ensure that it never happens like that. And we've even

504
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:52,079
kind of seen it with look at Devin Vessel's usage

505
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,680
this year, where seventy seven plus percent of his baskets

506
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,319
are coming off of this, which is just a number

507
00:23:57,319 --> 00:24:00,519
that is far greater than it was last year. You've

508
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,160
seen the way that I think, I'll look at it

509
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,279
this way. I think d Aaron Fox may be the

510
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,279
guy that needs to make the biggest adjustment of anyone.

511
00:24:08,319 --> 00:24:10,680
And even I say that the way he played off

512
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:15,960
of Domas Simonis in San Antonio, it's in Sacramento. Excuse me,

513
00:24:16,279 --> 00:24:18,000
I just don't know that I feel like it's an issue.

514
00:24:18,039 --> 00:24:19,559
I know that we haven't seen him play yet with

515
00:24:19,559 --> 00:24:21,880
this group, but after watching the Spurs this year, I'm

516
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,440
kind of just like, no, I don't think it's going

517
00:24:23,519 --> 00:24:25,559
to be an issue. And if it does become an issue,

518
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,119
I don't think it's going to come at the expense

519
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,359
of when Binyama. I think what will happen is it

520
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,279
becomes an issue because they've gone out of their way

521
00:24:31,519 --> 00:24:34,519
to make sure that Wenby is allowed to be the

522
00:24:34,519 --> 00:24:37,279
best possible version of himself. And then you get into

523
00:24:37,319 --> 00:24:40,599
the discussion of okay, well is there a guard that's

524
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,079
the odd man out here? And that's the question we

525
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:45,920
need to have. And right now, based off how they started,

526
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:47,680
it's easy to say, well, it should be Fox, he's

527
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,559
paid the most, he's older, hasn't played yet. I want

528
00:24:50,559 --> 00:24:52,359
to see it all come together. So it's still a question.

529
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,680
But you said this at the top. It's kind of

530
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,559
a great problem to have. I've even wondered, I don't

531
00:24:57,599 --> 00:24:59,279
want I think he's a great player. I actually think

532
00:24:59,319 --> 00:25:01,039
he's so critical well because of what he could do

533
00:25:01,079 --> 00:25:03,799
off the ball. I've almost wondered, well, does Devin Vesselle

534
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,079
become the guy that's the odd man out because they're

535
00:25:06,079 --> 00:25:07,759
so heavily invested in these other three?

536
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,279
Speaker 2: I think so we're way out over our skis, or

537
00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:14,079
at least I am on Harper. I think I think

538
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,759
Harper might be a better compliment to Wimbinyama than Fox,

539
00:25:16,839 --> 00:25:19,519
like right now, just because of what he's able to

540
00:25:19,559 --> 00:25:22,519
do as a facilitator. Now, Fox could come in and

541
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,400
shoot forty percent from three and just unlock this other

542
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,559
the handoff game with Wemby that we haven't really seen,

543
00:25:28,599 --> 00:25:31,079
and that'll be wrong. But I have the same thought

544
00:25:31,079 --> 00:25:33,880
of like if Visell was a forty percent shooter for

545
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,400
his career instead of like thirty six and had higher

546
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,680
volume and didn't shoot quite so many pull up twos

547
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,240
and was and was slightly bigger, he'd be a very

548
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:45,119
different player, but you wouldn't be talking about it with

549
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,680
him as like, well, somebody's gonna have to have their

550
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,559
minutes cut, and Visselle might be it. I think he

551
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,960
is someone that I especially if Harper or Fox or

552
00:25:55,039 --> 00:25:59,440
Castle sort of demonstrate more consistency from three, then I

553
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,319
think Vassell does just lose some minutes because he's not

554
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,160
a creator like either of those three guys are. And

555
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,119
he's not as good a defender as Castle. Few guards

556
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:07,599
are at this.

557
00:26:07,559 --> 00:26:10,160
Speaker 1: Point, right but he probably while Fox is probably the

558
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,440
second best defensively of those three. I think what helps

559
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:14,880
You mentioned the shooting, though, I think what helps is

560
00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:16,640
I mean, right now he's at forty percent on eight

561
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,160
plus attempts per game, and even.

562
00:26:18,039 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 2: If he holds that, then you can't take his minutes away, which.

563
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 1: Is the other thing too that I've been thinking about.

564
00:26:23,519 --> 00:26:25,319
By the way, in the Just I love the Luke

565
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,079
Cornett Wemby minutes that just gets sprinkled in, and I

566
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,160
know you can't go to that too often because of

567
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,519
the way the rest of the backup big rotation set up.

568
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,000
They're grabbing fifty five percent of their own misses when

569
00:26:35,039 --> 00:26:37,200
they're on the four together. That is obscene.

570
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's but there's a lot of really positive indicators

571
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,359
so far in addition to just five and zero being

572
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:44,039
the big one.

573
00:26:44,519 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: The other thing I've thought about this is now too

574
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,279
big picture. We need to talk about what we view

575
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,440
the Spurs as in the actual We both hit there

576
00:26:50,519 --> 00:26:52,519
under this year, by the way, in terms of full disclosure,

577
00:26:52,559 --> 00:26:55,799
but very quickly. Does Jeremy so Hands still have a

578
00:26:55,799 --> 00:26:57,559
place on this team to you when he comes back

579
00:26:57,599 --> 00:26:59,240
from the wrist injury, because I don't, I don't see

580
00:26:59,240 --> 00:26:59,960
it official.

581
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think so. I think the offensive limitations

582
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:09,000
he has just are even bigger problems when you have

583
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:13,799
three guys in the back court that aren't great shooters

584
00:27:13,799 --> 00:27:15,480
and that kind of need the ball like so him

585
00:27:15,519 --> 00:27:19,200
just and it's like if if you had a spacing

586
00:27:19,319 --> 00:27:24,759
center that needed defensive help. Sure, but like Wemby is

587
00:27:24,799 --> 00:27:27,359
the defense, you don't need another defense only guy on

588
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:28,920
the floor. That's just a waste, you know.

589
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: I think it's safe to say we were both too

590
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,200
low on the Spurs coming into the season, But are

591
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,240
they real as a contender?

592
00:27:38,559 --> 00:27:41,559
Speaker 2: I'm not going contender yet, I'm going like we really

593
00:27:41,799 --> 00:27:44,240
made a mistake in not just penciling them into the

594
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,720
top six right like that. That's as far as I'll

595
00:27:46,759 --> 00:27:51,319
go right now. But that all depends on the young

596
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,519
guards sustaining this, which is an if. But I'm just

597
00:27:55,559 --> 00:27:58,400
so encouraged by Harper in particular that I, you know,

598
00:27:58,519 --> 00:28:00,119
they should be one of the six best teams in

599
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,039
the West. They're off, They're ahead of the game so far.

600
00:28:03,799 --> 00:28:05,559
Speaker 1: I buy them as top six. Now, yeah, that would

601
00:28:05,559 --> 00:28:07,519
be that. Maybe that's a better way to frame or

602
00:28:07,559 --> 00:28:09,119
not shop me though, if they just end up being

603
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,200
top three, uh through Wemby, all things are possible. As

604
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,799
you like to say, our next team, grant the Miami Heat.

605
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,319
They have had quite the start to the season. They've

606
00:28:19,319 --> 00:28:21,839
already used I think like three or four different starting lineups.

607
00:28:22,039 --> 00:28:25,440
They've played Orlando, Memphis, the Knicks, the Hornets, and actually

608
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,240
just played the Spurs lost that game. What do you

609
00:28:28,279 --> 00:28:31,039
make of So there's so many different things that you

610
00:28:31,039 --> 00:28:32,599
would have to figure out whether you want to buy

611
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,200
or sell with them. I kind of want to start,

612
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,240
what have you thought about the change in how they

613
00:28:38,279 --> 00:28:40,599
have played offensively this year from years past?

614
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 2: Well, a little bit of deja vou right, because this

615
00:28:42,759 --> 00:28:45,640
is just the Memphis discussion from last season. We're like

616
00:28:45,759 --> 00:28:49,240
right down to their last in UH pick and roll

617
00:28:49,279 --> 00:28:52,799
ball handler frequency, last in pick and roll roll man frequency.

618
00:28:52,839 --> 00:28:56,519
They just don't set screens on the ball. Cooper Morehead,

619
00:28:56,839 --> 00:29:00,519
you probably saw this. They when Cooper Morehead put together,

620
00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:03,359
they're averaging twenty two pick and roll possessions per one

621
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,440
hundred through their first three games. The lowest mark of

622
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:11,079
the past thirteen years was almost double that. So like

623
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,400
there it's an extreme just disregard for the pick and

624
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,599
roll and on ball screens, which is what we were

625
00:29:17,599 --> 00:29:19,839
talking about with Memphis last year. They just they spaced

626
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,400
the floor. They had a super high isolation frequency, and

627
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,599
they timed their cuts and pinned down screens. They do

628
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,799
set off ball screens to create advantage situations and space

629
00:29:30,839 --> 00:29:34,559
the defense out. This matters a little more for the

630
00:29:34,599 --> 00:29:37,279
Heat because one of the things that was always wild

631
00:29:37,279 --> 00:29:39,720
about Memphis doing that is you have John Morant, who's

632
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,720
just a really difficult player to guard when you set

633
00:29:42,759 --> 00:29:44,759
a screen for him on the ball. The Heat don't

634
00:29:44,799 --> 00:29:46,720
have that guy, especially with Tyler Hero out.

635
00:29:46,799 --> 00:29:50,359
Speaker 1: So like it makes sense to Powell now barely right.

636
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,079
Speaker 2: It makes sense to take a crack at this when,

637
00:29:52,519 --> 00:29:55,640
like Davion Mitchell is not like a conventional offensive point

638
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,039
guard him Hawkes has been on the ball a ton

639
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,480
because he can't shoot, and most the rest of the

640
00:30:00,559 --> 00:30:03,799
roster can, so he's not a conventional facilitator in that

641
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,519
sense either. So I shocker. I love this. I love

642
00:30:07,559 --> 00:30:11,359
that they're trying something weird and that it makes more

643
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,720
sense for this roster than it did with Memphis, which

644
00:30:14,759 --> 00:30:17,119
is kind of the last team that went this like

645
00:30:17,519 --> 00:30:19,720
far off the map in terms of just we're going

646
00:30:19,799 --> 00:30:23,680
to play offense differently. They've had two games with a

647
00:30:23,759 --> 00:30:26,200
one to thirty offensive rating or better, which for the

648
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,680
heat is like just I don't know, I didn't look

649
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,000
it up, but I would be did they have two

650
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,759
games with a one thirty offensive rating all of last year? Probably,

651
00:30:34,839 --> 00:30:37,119
but like not that many. More so, the results have

652
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,920
been have been pretty spectacular. The transition frequencies way up.

653
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,000
I'm sure you've got something similar to all is too,

654
00:30:44,319 --> 00:30:46,960
especially off live rebounds. They were close to last in

655
00:30:47,039 --> 00:30:50,240
overall transition frequency and running off live rebounds last year.

656
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,920
They're sixth and thirteenth respectively this year. So more pace,

657
00:30:54,079 --> 00:30:58,960
more space, fewer screens. It's all been very fun. I like,

658
00:30:59,119 --> 00:31:00,759
I don't have a lot more to say than that.

659
00:31:01,279 --> 00:31:04,599
Speaker 1: To the pace part that I think is absolutely real.

660
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,240
Sixteen point three percent of their points so far have

661
00:31:07,319 --> 00:31:09,559
come on the break, and that number was higher before

662
00:31:09,559 --> 00:31:11,759
they ran into Wemby right, and all.

663
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,079
Speaker 2: These numbers are wrecked and they were way more impressive

664
00:31:14,119 --> 00:31:15,119
before that Spurs game.

665
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,359
Speaker 1: But that's still fifth, and so they have not been.

666
00:31:18,519 --> 00:31:20,839
And so last year, just to some context, they were

667
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:22,839
twenty first in the share of their points coming on

668
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,279
the break. The year before that twenty three twenty four,

669
00:31:25,319 --> 00:31:27,640
they were twenty second. The year before that twenty two

670
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,359
to twenty three, they were twenty seventh. And you mentioned

671
00:31:30,359 --> 00:31:33,759
transition frequency. Can you guess or do you know the

672
00:31:33,839 --> 00:31:36,160
last time they have ranked in the top ten of

673
00:31:36,279 --> 00:31:38,039
transition frequency as a team.

674
00:31:38,559 --> 00:31:41,559
Speaker 2: I would assume it was when Lebron, Wade and Bosh

675
00:31:41,599 --> 00:31:42,559
were on the team.

676
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,799
Speaker 1: It was twenty thirteenenty fourteen. And that's actually, honestly, I

677
00:31:47,079 --> 00:31:49,319
thought we would have had to go further back to

678
00:31:49,599 --> 00:31:52,559
them to be there. I'm not gonna lie, and they're

679
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,319
fifth right now in doing things like that. So what

680
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,960
I'm honoring here the people have made a huge deal

681
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,279
about the screening thing. Like, by the way, they've had

682
00:32:02,279 --> 00:32:05,200
some good wins this year, like beating the Knicks, that

683
00:32:05,279 --> 00:32:07,599
was a good win. We don't know what Orlando is

684
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,680
just yet, but like that's a gritty team. I wonder

685
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,839
if the Heat are benefiting from just what happened with

686
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,039
the Grizzlies, where teams didn't really know how to defend

687
00:32:17,039 --> 00:32:19,720
it yet and it was just so like a clectic

688
00:32:19,759 --> 00:32:21,200
that they didn't really know what to do with it.

689
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,200
With that being said, what I do think we're discounting

690
00:32:24,319 --> 00:32:27,359
is they could start using more ball screens to vary

691
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,480
up the offense once their best passer or second best passer,

692
00:32:31,519 --> 00:32:35,079
depending on how you feel about Casperus Hiakacionas is playing

693
00:32:35,319 --> 00:32:37,640
games for them like it's not outside the realm of

694
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,079
And you're also probably gonna have to slow things down

695
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,559
for Tyler Hero a little bit. He hasn't been afforded

696
00:32:43,599 --> 00:32:45,720
the opportunity to play this way, but now he's coming

697
00:32:45,759 --> 00:32:47,480
back from an injury and doesn't have a ton of

698
00:32:47,519 --> 00:32:50,279
experience playing with this team. There is a chance it

699
00:32:50,319 --> 00:32:53,240
could undermine it. But you're not going to use Jimai

700
00:32:53,319 --> 00:32:55,559
hawkis junior on the ball the same way you would

701
00:32:55,599 --> 00:32:58,640
Tyler Hero. When Jimi Hawki's junior can't shoot, you're not

702
00:32:58,680 --> 00:32:59,039
going to.

703
00:32:59,079 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 2: Use That makes is way less valuable if you can't

704
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,440
have him bring the ball up in an issue.

705
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: Correct, right, it does, but it could be interesting the

706
00:33:08,279 --> 00:33:10,000
fact I think it helps that Tyler Europe and also

707
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,720
play off the ball, so when some of just like

708
00:33:11,759 --> 00:33:13,880
if you want Hockett, don't don't do it all the time.

709
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:16,400
But I think that they have. Since a lot of

710
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,279
the comps have come back to the Grizzlies, I'm wondering

711
00:33:19,319 --> 00:33:22,359
if don't you think they have more avenues to explore

712
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,359
than that Grizzlies team did if they wanted to. This

713
00:33:25,519 --> 00:33:30,559
doesn't have to be being eccentric, being being like anomalist

714
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,640
on offense, doesn't have to be They're all everything the

715
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,480
way it felt like it was for that Memphis team

716
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,119
for the first seventy five percent of the season.

717
00:33:37,519 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 2: Well, again, like with Memphis, it was always it worked

718
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,559
until it didn't, and it but and yet it always

719
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,519
seemed like a strange choice for a team that had Moran.

720
00:33:50,519 --> 00:33:53,880
It feels more with it, like I agree that there's

721
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:58,279
definitely gonna be room for more conventional Uh, offensive sets

722
00:33:58,359 --> 00:34:00,759
wants the heater hole. And that's when when you have

723
00:34:00,799 --> 00:34:03,200
power full time, when you have hero full time, like

724
00:34:03,319 --> 00:34:05,720
you're just gonna want to run some more conventional actions

725
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:10,079
sometimes with those guys, I think they can be they

726
00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:13,199
can Yeah, maybe there is room just for more to

727
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,519
do both right for when when the heat are healthy.

728
00:34:16,039 --> 00:34:18,840
One kind of again, like what does this look like

729
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,599
if they're not shooting forty one percent from three and

730
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,119
almost forty three percent on non corner threes, Like, how

731
00:34:25,119 --> 00:34:27,840
how much of this offense are we like drooling over

732
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,519
if they're shooting the average from three, probably still talking

733
00:34:31,559 --> 00:34:34,559
about it just because it's it's unusual. But I don't

734
00:34:34,559 --> 00:34:37,480
think the numbers are anywhere near as good. Uh if

735
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,760
we're just having like what you'd expect from three for

736
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,920
this team. So just that's just like sorry to like

737
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,360
let some air out of the balloon. But but that's

738
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,760
kind of what I'm going to be monitoring, is does

739
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,840
all this ISO driving and like catch on the move

740
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,679
stuff look as good as a process if the results

741
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,119
are not bolstered by unsustainable three point shooting. You know,

742
00:34:59,199 --> 00:35:00,679
some of the things about.

743
00:35:00,679 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: Well they still do their fifth in defense, right, now,

744
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:04,199
which they could help.

745
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 2: And that's the given right. We know the heater are

746
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,480
going to defend. So that's why this offense matters so much.

747
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: I will say, please Eric's polstra fire the Khalil whear

748
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,440
Bam out of Bio minutes into the sun. I don't

749
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,559
want to see you anymore. I don't. I don't like them,

750
00:35:16,559 --> 00:35:19,800
and it's just it's weirdly feels like it's marginal like

751
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,559
Bam it maybe helps him on defense but marginalizes him

752
00:35:22,559 --> 00:35:26,400
on offense, or just like messes with both of the

753
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:31,159
Biggs's usage too much. Bam this season during the wear

754
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,960
at of Bio minutes is shooting like twenty three point

755
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,079
one percent on twoes, is what I have in my notes,

756
00:35:36,119 --> 00:35:38,599
and it's not doing what it's supposed to defensively. They

757
00:35:38,639 --> 00:35:41,480
have a one twenty nine defensive rating together while scoring

758
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,280
one hundred and nine points per one hundred peresions on offense.

759
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,840
It's only been like a forty something minute sample size,

760
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,840
but last year it was just there's I understand that

761
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,679
you want to play them together and what it allows

762
00:35:52,679 --> 00:35:56,159
Bam to do specifically defensively, but I don't is that's

763
00:35:56,159 --> 00:35:58,880
going to contribute at points to Bam shooting too many threes,

764
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:00,679
maybe the way that the heater playing right now, as

765
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:02,920
well as people want to see him not taking his

766
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,480
many three point attempts. There's a lot of questions on offense.

767
00:36:05,519 --> 00:36:07,880
But I also to put some air back in the balloon.

768
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,199
Tyler Hero hasn't played and Norman Powell has missed two

769
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,800
games for this team. So the fact that they're here

770
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,719
is kind of a pretty big deal. We did identify them,

771
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,679
or at least I did in the preseason just oh,

772
00:36:18,679 --> 00:36:20,960
they might be sneaky deep. Some of the names that

773
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,039
I mentioned as them being like Pelley Larson has not

774
00:36:23,079 --> 00:36:26,920
done a ton for them this year, but like Davion

775
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,880
Mitchell you kind of mentioned him like that's that you

776
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,039
have the baseline of what I would say is with Wiggins,

777
00:36:32,679 --> 00:36:35,360
with what Hawk has been able to do. This year. Now,

778
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,119
how does it change when Heroes back in the fold.

779
00:36:37,159 --> 00:36:39,840
If you believe they have a pretty high defensive baseline,

780
00:36:40,119 --> 00:36:42,880
they don't need to be second in three point efficiency,

781
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:45,320
they don't need to have a top five, top eight

782
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,639
offense or whatever it is. I think the question is

783
00:36:47,679 --> 00:36:50,679
do you think that they can have an above average

784
00:36:50,679 --> 00:36:53,639
offense with this group? And I feel like the answer

785
00:36:53,679 --> 00:36:56,000
is yes. I might have more questions about can the

786
00:36:56,039 --> 00:36:59,400
defense sustain if you're playing Tyler Hero Norman Powell a

787
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,639
bunch of minutes together, which I assume is going to be.

788
00:37:01,679 --> 00:37:04,079
Speaker 2: The player, right. That was one of the things coming in,

789
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,920
is there's all there felt like there was gonna be

790
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,639
some necessary offense defense trade offs just depending on who

791
00:37:09,639 --> 00:37:12,400
they decided to play. I like that you set the

792
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,280
the can they or can't they line for offense kind

793
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,679
of at like fifteenth or just league average, because I

794
00:37:19,159 --> 00:37:22,679
do think we need to throttle back expectations a little bit.

795
00:37:23,079 --> 00:37:25,440
But that would be a pretty big step forward if

796
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,840
the offense was break even and maybe this defense really

797
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,320
is top ten. That's how you get certainly into the

798
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,320
top six in the East. I guess my question for you,

799
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,079
because you've been higher on them than I was, can

800
00:37:38,119 --> 00:37:40,639
this be a top four team in the East? Like?

801
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,800
Is that is that too? Does that depend too much

802
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,719
on the offense sustaining for more than the four five

803
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:47,599
games they've played?

804
00:37:48,079 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: Honestly, I think this is the one that I don't

805
00:37:52,039 --> 00:37:54,639
think it's real to the extent of are the heat

806
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,159
better than we thought? Sure? Are the heat a top four,

807
00:37:58,199 --> 00:38:00,000
top six team in the East. That's the one I'm

808
00:38:00,119 --> 00:38:02,480
not ready to say is real yet, in part because

809
00:38:03,159 --> 00:38:05,199
I just think Cleveland and New York are going to

810
00:38:05,199 --> 00:38:07,519
be better at some point. I would say the same

811
00:38:07,559 --> 00:38:11,960
thing about Atlanta too, and Orlando as well. But what

812
00:38:12,039 --> 00:38:15,039
I think is, just you mentioned it. The offense would

813
00:38:15,079 --> 00:38:17,760
have to sustain at this rate. And look, maybe maybe

814
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:19,480
they're just a better shooting team that like, what if

815
00:38:19,519 --> 00:38:21,599
Simoni Fontecio is just going to have a bounce back

816
00:38:21,599 --> 00:38:23,639
a year, and if Norman Powell's healthy and Tyler hero

817
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:26,400
is healthy, this team is kind of stocked with shooters.

818
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,719
And if you can create enough space, because look the

819
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,719
value of bam Adebayo, by the way, if teams respect

820
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,960
him even a little bit at his position from behind

821
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,679
the three point line. That's why the Deveon Mitchell Lanes

822
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,280
are open. That's why the Jia Hawkas Junior lanes are

823
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,519
open too. But a top five like that, I'm going

824
00:38:42,559 --> 00:38:44,320
to sell the idea of the top five one. It

825
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,039
just seems a little bit of a stretch. But if

826
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,719
if it's not copycat league grant, everyone's kind of out

827
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:52,519
on what Memphis tried last year. And even though they

828
00:38:52,559 --> 00:38:55,039
tried it, you already kind of said this. They had

829
00:38:55,039 --> 00:38:57,760
the conventional lead ball handler in John Moran. I think

830
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,559
Tyler Hero is better in that respect than to people

831
00:39:00,599 --> 00:39:02,199
give him credit. But it's in the same vein as

832
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,519
kind of Devin Booker with the Suns to where they

833
00:39:04,559 --> 00:39:07,239
can do it. But you're not necessarily optimizing your offense

834
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,039
that way. If this Heat team, why's up being even

835
00:39:10,079 --> 00:39:13,800
top ten in offense? Man, there's gonna be a trickle

836
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,079
down effect across the league for sure.

837
00:39:16,519 --> 00:39:20,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would sell the sustainability of this offense as

838
00:39:20,599 --> 00:39:22,280
much as anything because of the shooting. The three point

839
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,599
shooting is unsustainable and the numbers are very different. If

840
00:39:24,599 --> 00:39:28,840
they're not making everything. I am not, but I will

841
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:32,760
buy being interested like they. I definitely am gonna watch

842
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,920
more Heat than I did last I mean last year,

843
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:36,519
which was not a lot because that was a slog

844
00:39:36,559 --> 00:39:39,840
all season. But I'm always You've always got my attention

845
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:42,239
if you're gonna get a little weird on offense. So

846
00:39:42,559 --> 00:39:44,679
if anything, as much as anything, just to see like

847
00:39:45,199 --> 00:39:48,440
what a defense is, what's the solve gonna be here? Like,

848
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,239
because Memphis didn't really show it to us for long

849
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:55,119
enough to establish a here are the principles you throw

850
00:39:55,159 --> 00:39:59,119
at this this offense, right, So I as much as anything,

851
00:39:59,159 --> 00:40:01,559
what's the counter this? Because there will be one? And

852
00:40:01,559 --> 00:40:03,559
that's another thing to keep in mind is like, like

853
00:40:03,599 --> 00:40:06,679
you said at the top, half of the effectiveness of

854
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,239
this approach might just be in teams are not prepared

855
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,920
for it because you don't see it more than in

856
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,719
this case, like twice a year. So like, I think

857
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:16,840
that's another thing I'm gonna be really interested to monitor.

858
00:40:17,079 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: Can I Can I ask you a question? I'm just

859
00:40:18,559 --> 00:40:22,400
asking questions here. Just ask who's more important to this

860
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,639
team long term? Khalil Ware or Nikola Jovic?

861
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 2: Can we just wait until the end of the year

862
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,800
and see which of them starts more games? And basics

863
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:32,199
around that.

864
00:40:32,159 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 1: I'm asking you. I'm asking you this question now.

865
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:39,159
Speaker 2: I think it's where. And that's while acknowledging it's just

866
00:40:39,199 --> 00:40:44,960
a floor ceiling thing. He's been super inconsistent. Uh, he

867
00:40:45,119 --> 00:40:47,320
just night to night. It's been hard to know what

868
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:49,920
you're gonna get from him. But the best version of

869
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,280
him is more valuable to me than the best version

870
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,440
of Yovic. So that I'll that's a little bit of

871
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,880
a cop out. But Yovic is the more reliable guy.

872
00:40:58,039 --> 00:41:01,159
I would say, but I think if where becomes what

873
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,280
he can become, then I'd rather have that guy.

874
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 1: I think I'm officially and I probably would have done

875
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,480
this last season too. I'm putting my stamp on Yovic here,

876
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,239
give me this someone. I think there's there's more playmaking

877
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,800
to plumb from him. And just if he's he hasn't

878
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,239
even had the best start to the season. He look

879
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:19,360
at he shooting forty percent from three, and that's the

880
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,320
team percentage from three is an outlier. But you dig

881
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,679
into some of the like Andrew Wiggins is shooting thirty

882
00:41:24,679 --> 00:41:26,719
three percent, that's not that's kind of what like Mormon

883
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:29,599
Powell has done this before, and Tyler Hero great shooter.

884
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:32,599
I'm so I want both of those guys, by the way,

885
00:41:32,639 --> 00:41:34,719
Powell Hero to come back because one I hate injuries,

886
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,320
but two, what does this offense look like? How does

887
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,880
it change? How does it sustain? With them in the fold?

888
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:44,079
Our next team, Grant, can you talk to me about

889
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,039
the Oklahoma City Thunder. They're still rebuilding. We're hoping that

890
00:41:48,039 --> 00:41:50,920
they exit it pretty soon. U they might have won,

891
00:41:51,039 --> 00:41:53,159
they'll maybe they'll win a championship. Oh, that's right, they

892
00:41:53,199 --> 00:41:58,400
already won one, are they? Are they for real? Fake?

893
00:41:59,159 --> 00:42:03,039
Speaker 2: Fake? Two double overtimes? You needed two double overtimes for wins.

894
00:42:03,039 --> 00:42:06,039
You've only won two games by double digits. Lame. The

895
00:42:06,079 --> 00:42:08,400
guys are paper tigers. They're not They're not real.

896
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:11,199
Speaker 1: So I think did we Was it you and I

897
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,920
that had this discussion about approaching things from the perspective

898
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,840
of I want to poke holes in what we think

899
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,039
is just true? And so the reflexive answer is, okay,

900
00:42:20,119 --> 00:42:22,599
OKAC has dealt with injuries and they still have one

901
00:42:22,599 --> 00:42:25,480
of the best net ratings in the league. They're fine,

902
00:42:25,559 --> 00:42:27,639
Like they're real and they are real. But I was

903
00:42:27,639 --> 00:42:29,920
trying to just find some things to be concerned about,

904
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:31,559
and so I have some things that we could talk

905
00:42:31,599 --> 00:42:33,159
about if you're if you're ready for it.

906
00:42:33,199 --> 00:42:34,679
Speaker 2: Is one of them that they can't make threes.

907
00:42:35,519 --> 00:42:37,559
Speaker 1: Uh, it is they are shooting twenty eight point eight

908
00:42:37,599 --> 00:42:39,679
percent on wide open threes. The other thing is that

909
00:42:39,679 --> 00:42:43,119
they are nineteenth in half court offense. All of this

910
00:42:43,199 --> 00:42:45,599
is presented with the fact that they have players missing

911
00:42:45,639 --> 00:42:48,880
time again. Jadubbs yet to play, Chet has missed their

912
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,159
past two games. What I so again, this is something

913
00:42:52,159 --> 00:42:54,639
that I wasn't concerned about because they're gonna shoot better

914
00:42:54,679 --> 00:42:56,920
than wide open threes. I actually think I know he

915
00:42:57,039 --> 00:43:00,000
wasn't a huge part of the actual title run last year,

916
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:02,599
but Isaiah Joe coming back, I think we'll be big

917
00:43:02,599 --> 00:43:04,840
for their Like he's a really good regular season player.

918
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 2: If you twenty off the bench, no problem is first

919
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,280
game back. It's super fun for everybody when they could

920
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:11,760
just throw a guy out there that can do that.

921
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: What I do find if we were to focus on

922
00:43:14,039 --> 00:43:17,880
something is they are dead last in transition frequency so far,

923
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,599
and that includes after grabbing a live rebound, and they're

924
00:43:20,639 --> 00:43:23,880
twenty sixth in the percentage of their points coming in transition.

925
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,639
If you are OKAC and your half court offense is

926
00:43:27,679 --> 00:43:31,079
going to be rickety beyond Shake Guilders Alexander being Shake

927
00:43:31,079 --> 00:43:34,760
Gilders Alexander, that would be a potential problem. You can

928
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,039
say that it'll get remedied when Jay Dubb comes back,

929
00:43:37,039 --> 00:43:38,719
because he will grab the ball and he will go.

930
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:40,840
But he's come back from a risk injury on a

931
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:42,480
shooting hand. We don't know what that's like. We don't

932
00:43:42,519 --> 00:43:44,719
know what that's gonna look like. Is there a concern

933
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,079
level there for you at all, or do you counter

934
00:43:47,119 --> 00:43:48,239
that with something else?

935
00:43:48,679 --> 00:43:52,039
Speaker 2: No, I think if you're looking for actual concerns, it

936
00:43:52,119 --> 00:43:55,360
has to be kind of what we saw them run

937
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,760
into last season, where the half court offense does get

938
00:44:00,119 --> 00:44:03,400
loggie and it becomes can SG draw foul? And it

939
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:05,760
becomes can Jadab Can this be one of the nights

940
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,920
when Jadab is good enough as a creator to make

941
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,239
stuff happen in the half court? And so, yeah, that

942
00:44:12,639 --> 00:44:17,239
is the issue still. And so if maybe if Wallace

943
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,280
hadn't missed a game and Caruso hadn't missed time, maybe

944
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,079
there'd be more steals, maybe there'd be more transition frequency

945
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:26,440
because of that kind of thing, Maybe that they could

946
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,800
just ratchet up the chaos more. Maybe they're just not like,

947
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:30,920
maybe they know they don't need to do that yet,

948
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,079
they don't need to play it hard enough to create

949
00:44:33,119 --> 00:44:36,960
all the chaos that leads to easy baskets. But that

950
00:44:37,079 --> 00:44:39,920
is that is what you would focus on, I think

951
00:44:40,159 --> 00:44:44,199
as a counter to that. Suddenly, and people that were

952
00:44:44,199 --> 00:44:47,519
paying attention last year maybe aren't surprised by this. They

953
00:44:47,559 --> 00:44:50,239
have a guy in aj Mitchell that is also a

954
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:52,840
pretty good half court creator. If you do run into

955
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:58,519
some trouble. So just conjuring him out of a late

956
00:44:58,599 --> 00:45:01,119
draft pick and being able to get eighteen plus from

957
00:45:01,199 --> 00:45:04,199
him and good spot up shooting and like really good

958
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,360
for what they need him to do facilitation feels unfair,

959
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,679
But he's been really good, and he is in theory,

960
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:14,519
like one of the fixes for the problem that you're

961
00:45:14,559 --> 00:45:17,000
talking about, where if things get bogged down, you can

962
00:45:17,039 --> 00:45:20,800
put him out there with Shae, with Jadab, with Chet

963
00:45:21,159 --> 00:45:23,519
and suddenly you've got four guys that can make stuff

964
00:45:23,559 --> 00:45:26,800
happen from a standstill. Maybe that alleviates some of the

965
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,559
half court clunkiness, right, Like just having him as a

966
00:45:30,559 --> 00:45:34,239
as a as a leverta pole gives the Thunder, you know,

967
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,800
a team filled with advantages like one more.

968
00:45:38,599 --> 00:45:41,679
Speaker 1: And when he is playing without Shay aj Mitchell, without Shay,

969
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,760
this Thunder are a plus five point three per one

970
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,599
hundred possessions. That's actually worse than their overall net rating

971
00:45:47,639 --> 00:45:50,880
without Shay this season. But I think what he's done

972
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,320
is he's helped he's create havoc, like when he's able

973
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,199
to get inside the arc and the Thunder shooting almost

974
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,880
fifty five percent from two during those minutes and he's

975
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,119
going to tee up a lot of that stuff. I

976
00:46:00,119 --> 00:46:02,519
also did want to ask you before he ended up

977
00:46:02,599 --> 00:46:05,239
missing the past two games. Chet Holme run again, man,

978
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:08,039
just kind of like finishing through contact better those drives.

979
00:46:08,039 --> 00:46:12,559
Speaker 2: There's what he some new stuff, new stuff. It's pretty exciting.

980
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,320
Speaker 1: This is just I don't I'm not gonna bring up

981
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,079
I will default to Jay dub On, who is the

982
00:46:17,079 --> 00:46:19,760
second best player on this team still. But we're doing

983
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,760
it again. We did this last season, I'm doing it

984
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,599
again now. It's chet Holmegren, if he stays healthy, is

985
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,760
just such an anomaly for what he's able to do

986
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:30,719
on both the offense and the defensive end, and that

987
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,159
just that factors into all of this too, to where

988
00:46:33,159 --> 00:46:35,199
it's just you can be a little bit concerned about

989
00:46:35,199 --> 00:46:38,199
the offense. But chet Holmgren has missed forty percent of

990
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:40,239
their game so far. J dubb as yet to play.

991
00:46:40,519 --> 00:46:43,239
I guess if you wanted to nitpick, their schedule has

992
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:47,079
been since facing Houston, and even the Indiana game was

993
00:46:47,079 --> 00:46:49,519
tough because you just faced that team in the finals,

994
00:46:49,519 --> 00:46:51,519
so you guys kind of know the ins and outs

995
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:53,480
of each other, and then you go when you blast

996
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,079
the Hawks, that we thought they were gonna be a

997
00:46:55,119 --> 00:46:58,079
good team. Dallas has a lot of big bodies. I mean,

998
00:46:58,079 --> 00:47:01,519
the Kings aren't a real basketball teams. Keyshawn George out

999
00:47:01,519 --> 00:47:04,199
there make his claim for sophomore Moo's improved player. So

1000
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,599
you could nitpick and say the schedule has not been brutal,

1001
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:08,639
but when you look at who is misst time, including

1002
00:47:08,679 --> 00:47:12,119
a case in Wallace and Alex Caruso, this defense not

1003
00:47:12,159 --> 00:47:14,599
the best in the league anymore, apparently because Wemby exists.

1004
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,440
I just I guess the question here we know this

1005
00:47:17,599 --> 00:47:20,599
under our contenders, but it's do you buy this team?

1006
00:47:20,599 --> 00:47:23,280
Maybe it won't be easy, but as of right now

1007
00:47:23,559 --> 00:47:25,400
there what was their over? Under? Said at we both

1008
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:26,440
went over or did you go?

1009
00:47:26,599 --> 00:47:28,679
Speaker 2: It was I went under. I went under because I

1010
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:30,719
only thought they'd win sixty two games. I think it

1011
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:32,960
was like sixty two and a half or something something.

1012
00:47:33,079 --> 00:47:35,639
Speaker 1: Right, I'm gonna ask you, will this team win more

1013
00:47:35,679 --> 00:47:37,960
than sixty three or more games this season? That's what

1014
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:39,800
we have to buy or sell. I'm gonna buy it

1015
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:41,199
because I already did, but.

1016
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think I have to buy it now.

1017
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,400
But then that really the question becomes, is this how

1018
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,960
it's gonna be all year where they're just never at

1019
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,440
full strength, for both deliberately and because guys are nicked up,

1020
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:55,960
Like they're never you know, they're not going to push

1021
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,159
guys back. They're gonna give players nights off after a

1022
00:47:58,199 --> 00:48:00,639
finals run, and this will be this will be what

1023
00:48:00,679 --> 00:48:04,519
they are, which again is undefeated. Or if you really

1024
00:48:04,599 --> 00:48:08,039
want to bang the over, do you say they're like

1025
00:48:08,119 --> 00:48:10,639
basically playing with one hand tied behind their back. What

1026
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:13,559
happens when they can hit you with either one? And

1027
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,960
then do they just win seventy plays? Right? Like? That's

1028
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,159
that's I don't know which way to go with this.

1029
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,599
But if they get to like ten, twelve, fifteen and

1030
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:24,840
oh or something like that, then we got to start

1031
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:26,679
talking about seventy four and eight, Right.

1032
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say like seventy five and seven seems

1033
00:48:30,639 --> 00:48:33,519
more accurate. But yeah, this is just the fact that

1034
00:48:33,559 --> 00:48:36,800
they have one I don't Yeah, there's their known commodity,

1035
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,320
but they're also just given the context of who is

1036
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,320
miss games and how some of them have consecutive double

1037
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,199
overtimes open the season, you would think that you might

1038
00:48:44,199 --> 00:48:47,440
feel just like a teensy bit worse about this team.

1039
00:48:47,679 --> 00:48:50,719
I do not know for anyone who is wondering next team.

1040
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,280
This is not a squad either of us would have

1041
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,800
predicted we'd be talking about in this podcast. Your Chicago

1042
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:58,360
Bulls great one of us.

1043
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 2: Dan, I mean, I just what was the over under?

1044
00:49:01,039 --> 00:49:02,039
Thirty four and a half?

1045
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:06,760
Speaker 1: So didn't we both hit the over? But you were bete.

1046
00:49:06,519 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 2: Best bet at it? I mean they so let's see

1047
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,320
four and oh, they got seventy eight left. They only

1048
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:18,320
need to win thirty one more games, pretty easy. Let's

1049
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,320
start with the schedule to get a little more serious

1050
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,159
about this. They beat Detroit, who has kind of been

1051
00:49:23,199 --> 00:49:27,320
a mess sporadically, especially offensively because nobody can do anything

1052
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:31,960
besides Kate Hunningham. They won at Orlando, arguably an even

1053
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:34,760
bigger offensive mess for stretches this season, and they were

1054
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:37,360
also playing the Magic War second night of a back

1055
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,960
to back. Beat Atlanta, wildly disappointing team so far. Beat

1056
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,320
the Kings, who, in addition to Dan Favalley's words, are

1057
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:46,800
not an actual basketball team. The Kings were also playing

1058
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:48,840
the second night of a back to back. The schedule.

1059
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,199
Dan has been suspect that said, I don't care they

1060
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:58,159
banked these four wins they're going over no problem. I can't.

1061
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,480
I didn't really imagine that I be like the Bulls

1062
00:50:01,519 --> 00:50:03,760
guy this year. But I'm so ready to embrace it

1063
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,480
and just to be ecstatic when they win thirty nine games.

1064
00:50:06,679 --> 00:50:08,280
Can't wait? Really, where do you think?

1065
00:50:08,639 --> 00:50:10,960
Speaker 1: Where do we think Trey Jones finishes on the MVP?

1066
00:50:11,119 --> 00:50:12,000
Vallot ask my.

1067
00:50:12,039 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 2: Question top ten? Probably? Uh? He is? I mean, I've

1068
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:18,880
I've hit bang this drum a couple of times. The

1069
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:20,360
shooting has been preposterous.

1070
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:20,840
Speaker 1: Uh.

1071
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:25,639
Speaker 2: I would assume Kevin Herder, Modus Bizillis Vucevic, Patrick Williams,

1072
00:50:25,679 --> 00:50:27,920
and Trey Jones are all over fifty percent from the field.

1073
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:30,920
Assume Jones and Williams are all over fifty percent from

1074
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,880
three opponents? Dan, do you want to guess this is unfair?

1075
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,079
Speaker 1: Why? I already know it's? What?

1076
00:50:37,159 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 2: Are opponents shooting from three? Uh?

1077
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:40,519
Speaker 1: Thirty two?

1078
00:50:41,199 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 2: Too high? Twenty six point two percent?

1079
00:50:43,559 --> 00:50:45,760
Speaker 1: That is actually do you know what they're shooting? A

1080
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:47,519
wide open threes? Is that part of your notes?

1081
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 2: No corner threes? I got a corner three stat, So

1082
00:50:50,039 --> 00:50:52,360
give me the wide open threes Bull's opponents are shooting?

1083
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:53,559
What on wide open threes?

1084
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say so, I'm gonna set the over under

1085
00:50:56,320 --> 00:51:00,000
a twenty nine point seven better, I'm going under yeah,

1086
00:51:00,039 --> 00:51:01,039
twenty seven point four.

1087
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, nineteen point four percent on corner threes. Nineteen point

1088
00:51:05,519 --> 00:51:09,880
four percent on corner threes. So that uh, that number

1089
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,280
four defensive rating, not sure how sustained?

1090
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 1: Hold on, hold on now. I think what is happening

1091
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,400
here is that the Bulls are choosing which of the

1092
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:21,599
players are shooting threes, and the way that they're they

1093
00:51:21,599 --> 00:51:24,119
are forcing the ball and guiding it into those they

1094
00:51:24,159 --> 00:51:27,000
do do to their defense. They limit corner threes at

1095
00:51:27,079 --> 00:51:29,360
least so far, don't they so? But yeah, this is

1096
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:30,679
just why they should.

1097
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,320
Speaker 2: Let They should let teams shoot as many as they want.

1098
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:33,920
They're only making two out of ten.

1099
00:51:34,679 --> 00:51:37,039
Speaker 1: Oh no, I'm sorry, house looking house looking at the wrong.

1100
00:51:37,679 --> 00:51:39,599
Yeah they are. So they're six in their corner three

1101
00:51:39,599 --> 00:51:43,119
point percent like frequency of threes coming from the corners.

1102
00:51:43,119 --> 00:51:45,119
You're right, they should. They should jack that up there.

1103
00:51:45,039 --> 00:51:47,320
Speaker 2: Let more, let them shoot more. They can't. Clearly, nobody

1104
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:49,119
can make them against the bulls because they're choosing the

1105
00:51:49,199 --> 00:51:52,639
right players to leave open in the corners. Let's do

1106
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,039
positives though their four and zero Uh, their offenses middle

1107
00:51:56,079 --> 00:51:58,559
of the pack. Josh Giddy looks pretty good. He's making

1108
00:51:58,599 --> 00:52:00,840
his threes still, if that's a real thing. If Giddy's

1109
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,519
gonna make threes, Dan's hands up? Would you like that question?

1110
00:52:04,679 --> 00:52:07,159
Speaker 1: Is you mentioned that their offense is middle league is

1111
00:52:07,159 --> 00:52:10,840
starting with the positives? Is that a positive? Because with

1112
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:14,440
this group, shouldn't they looking at the personnel, wouldn't you

1113
00:52:14,519 --> 00:52:17,280
have guessed that they would have an offense first identity

1114
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:18,960
and so be middle of the road in that while

1115
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:21,599
your defense that okay, cool if we're talking about Jedi

1116
00:52:21,639 --> 00:52:23,639
three point defense or do you really you would have

1117
00:52:23,679 --> 00:52:26,519
to believe in Oh, there's something here with the defense

1118
00:52:26,559 --> 00:52:28,840
for us to say middle of the road offensively, that's

1119
00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:30,840
rocks all great, Grant, that's a follow up question.

1120
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 2: I have a comment. I don't have a question. I

1121
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,719
have a comment. I think maybe the better way to

1122
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:39,519
phrase it is that number fifteen offensive rating is feels

1123
00:52:39,519 --> 00:52:42,000
a lot more sustainable and real than the number four

1124
00:52:42,039 --> 00:52:44,599
defensive rating. I guess to say it's a positive is

1125
00:52:44,639 --> 00:52:47,679
probably a little bit too much. But yeah, they might

1126
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,000
even be better than that. Again, I went through the numbers.

1127
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,239
Everybody's making half their shots are better, but it's easier

1128
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:56,599
to believe that this team will, especially like Manus Bizellis.

1129
00:52:56,599 --> 00:52:58,800
We haven't really talked about him. He looks like someone

1130
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:02,239
that's gonna be a pretty dangerous downhill weapon who might

1131
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:05,679
also be at least league average from three already. So

1132
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:07,880
that's kind of a new arrow in the quiver. And

1133
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,159
he should just play more than he did last year too,

1134
00:53:10,519 --> 00:53:15,239
going as a sophomore. So like there's there's real I

1135
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:18,960
don't know, like viable looks here offensively for the bulls

1136
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:21,360
in the in ways that like there just aren't on

1137
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:23,599
the defensive end. So maybe that's the way to frame it.

1138
00:53:24,599 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. I don't And we could

1139
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:29,000
say that Vouch will calm down, but we weren't we

1140
00:53:29,039 --> 00:53:30,920
saying that for pretty much all of last year.

1141
00:53:31,039 --> 00:53:35,320
Speaker 2: And he yeah, I mean right, he might just be

1142
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:37,280
a forty percent guy. I don't know, like you could have,

1143
00:53:37,559 --> 00:53:41,239
you know, like late career, and for him, it's very

1144
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,480
late in the career to be having a one of

1145
00:53:43,519 --> 00:53:45,920
the best season ever he's had shooting the ball last year.

1146
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:49,119
But isn't it easier to believe, like, oh, he's just

1147
00:53:49,199 --> 00:53:52,599
improved at like a standstill skill than it is to

1148
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:54,880
you know, like if he were I don't know this,

1149
00:53:55,199 --> 00:53:57,159
it's like ridiculous to even think of it. But if

1150
00:53:57,199 --> 00:54:00,519
like suddenly he's just great off the dribble or crazy

1151
00:54:00,519 --> 00:54:02,559
like he's just the athleticism is gonna go, maybe the

1152
00:54:02,559 --> 00:54:05,400
shot is actually something that at this late stage of

1153
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:07,400
the career you can get better at. It's like one

1154
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:09,639
of the only things you can improve at. I don't know,

1155
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:12,239
just looking looking for reasons to be positive about my Bulls.

1156
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:16,000
Speaker 1: I did hope that this team would run more, and

1157
00:54:16,079 --> 00:54:18,519
I don't know how much of that is a function of, Okay,

1158
00:54:18,599 --> 00:54:20,960
we need to see what Kobe White looks like, but

1159
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:22,760
I thought that this like they have not really been

1160
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:24,679
out in transition a ton. They were one of They're

1161
00:54:24,679 --> 00:54:26,719
still kind of fun to watch, but they were a

1162
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:29,360
lot more aesthetically pleasing to me last season. But maybe

1163
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:32,000
that says more about me that But it's also funny.

1164
00:54:32,039 --> 00:54:34,440
You could be watching their broadcast like, oh, we think

1165
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:36,800
Billy Dunnan's gonna bring in Kevin hur to get some

1166
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,679
size on the court, and its to speak to the

1167
00:54:39,679 --> 00:54:41,920
types of lineups they're running, which is just so fun.

1168
00:54:42,679 --> 00:54:47,000
Did you mention pat Patrick Williams Renaissance bargain sight.

1169
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:50,159
Speaker 2: To behold great value contract right, just that the Bulls

1170
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:52,519
knew that that they needed to lock them down at

1171
00:54:52,519 --> 00:54:54,559
that number so that nobody else would.

1172
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:56,320
Speaker 1: Be the way. The fact that they're here too, and

1173
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:59,599
they're starting five is just getting trucked during its minutes

1174
00:54:59,599 --> 00:55:02,159
on the court. There's there's so much about this team

1175
00:55:02,199 --> 00:55:04,000
that doesn't make sense right now that I almost just

1176
00:55:04,039 --> 00:55:05,639
want to buy them as a top six team in

1177
00:55:05,679 --> 00:55:06,000
the East.

1178
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 2: I was gonna ask you if you've adjusted your priors.

1179
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:11,599
I think I have my answer. I have not adjusted

1180
00:55:11,639 --> 00:55:14,800
my priors. They're gonna win, but this is this is

1181
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:18,280
a great start. They can win forty games, I think,

1182
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:20,880
and maybe maybe a couple more the and maybe you

1183
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:22,760
who know's in the East, maybe that is top six.

1184
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:24,960
But I don't feel very differently about them than I

1185
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:26,400
did before any games were played.

1186
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,159
Speaker 1: I think the are the Bulls for real? Question needs

1187
00:55:29,159 --> 00:55:31,639
to be are the Bulls going to be an above

1188
00:55:31,639 --> 00:55:32,880
five hundred team this season?

1189
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I just said they might win forty two,

1190
00:55:37,159 --> 00:55:38,519
So answer.

1191
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:40,079
Speaker 1: I thought you said forty and I was gonna say

1192
00:55:40,079 --> 00:55:41,000
that is less than five months.

1193
00:55:41,199 --> 00:55:45,599
Speaker 2: It's the range realistically is thirty eight, Like, is it

1194
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:47,639
forty What if I said forty four? What if I

1195
00:55:47,639 --> 00:55:49,559
said forty three and a half is the over under?

1196
00:55:49,639 --> 00:55:50,480
Would you go over that?

1197
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:52,639
Speaker 1: No? I would take the under. I was not gonna

1198
00:55:52,639 --> 00:55:54,360
take forty you said at forty one and a half,

1199
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:55,360
I'm still gonna take the under.

1200
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, Yeah, we're we're we're about where we

1201
00:55:58,000 --> 00:55:58,519
were on them.

1202
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:01,679
Speaker 1: Well, although we're all this in, Kobe White hasn't played.

1203
00:56:02,639 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he's he's a good player. He's maybe

1204
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:09,800
his return offsets. Everybody's shooting fifty percent from the field.

1205
00:56:10,159 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 1: Uh, Since since we're just asking questions, can I ask

1206
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:13,280
you a question?

1207
00:56:13,559 --> 00:56:14,159
Speaker 2: I'd love it.

1208
00:56:14,639 --> 00:56:18,239
Speaker 1: What's more likely Nicola Vucevic gets traded or extended?

1209
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:22,320
Speaker 2: Oh my god, extend him. You gotta keep this, you

1210
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:23,760
gotta keep the gang together.

1211
00:56:25,199 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 1: Oh man, our next team? Are they our last team?

1212
00:56:29,039 --> 00:56:30,679
I think they might be our last team. They will

1213
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:34,000
break up the Milwaukee Bucks, not because Giannis wants out,

1214
00:56:34,039 --> 00:56:37,519
but because they won't stop winning basketball games, grant including

1215
00:56:37,559 --> 00:56:43,440
against our teams. WTF, right, UT's start there. I was

1216
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:45,679
gonna say, you could make the argument to trade Giannis

1217
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:48,159
because clearly they're better built to beat the Western Conference

1218
00:56:48,199 --> 00:56:49,599
teams without him, that's all.

1219
00:56:49,519 --> 00:56:53,880
Speaker 2: Say, that's pretty obvious. He's been incredible. It just kind

1220
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:57,480
of everybody's talking about like, oh, he's different, the passing

1221
00:56:57,559 --> 00:57:00,360
is different. This I guess like he's just he's just

1222
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,639
as great as ever basically to me. And maybe you

1223
00:57:03,679 --> 00:57:08,880
know it's been conspicuous or it seemed conspicuous because going

1224
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:10,920
into this season it was just like, what is this

1225
00:57:11,119 --> 00:57:14,440
supporting cast? Just a bunch of minimums a bunch, But

1226
00:57:14,599 --> 00:57:19,239
like watching it play out, there's some logic to it, right,

1227
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:21,519
every they can put lineups on the floor where everybody

1228
00:57:21,599 --> 00:57:23,440
is a threat from three and they're not a threat

1229
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:25,719
to do a whole lot else with one exception, which

1230
00:57:25,719 --> 00:57:29,239
we have to talk about. But if you surround Yannis

1231
00:57:29,239 --> 00:57:32,360
with four guys that must be attended to just call

1232
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,239
it Turner, Trent, Torrian Prince and I'll just say his

1233
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:39,199
name because we have to Ryan Rawlins. That's a pretty

1234
00:57:39,239 --> 00:57:42,440
good setup just in theory, right, like you have to

1235
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:45,880
shade the honest because he's just murdering everybody going downhill

1236
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:49,119
and if guys make enough threes, then there's your offense.

1237
00:57:50,559 --> 00:57:54,239
I guess maybe do you feel like we undervalued, like

1238
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:56,800
the names don't knock your socks off, but just the

1239
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:59,119
skill sets of the guys that they put around him,

1240
00:57:59,159 --> 00:58:01,719
did we not give enough credit to just like the

1241
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:06,000
build makes sense in terms of like the types of players,

1242
00:58:06,039 --> 00:58:06,880
if not the names.

1243
00:58:08,519 --> 00:58:11,079
Speaker 1: I guess maybe, And there was. They were one of

1244
00:58:11,119 --> 00:58:13,360
the most efficient three point shooting teams last year, but

1245
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:16,559
we all kind of had questions about their volume there.

1246
00:58:16,679 --> 00:58:19,760
I don't know. I mean, I liked Ryan Rollins last year.

1247
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:21,360
We talked about him a cup, but did you see

1248
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:25,400
him coming in and being their second leading score facilitating

1249
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:28,079
the crap out of off drives. He's shooting fifty three

1250
00:58:28,079 --> 00:58:31,079
percent on drive, shooting well from three. They got Cole

1251
00:58:31,119 --> 00:58:34,039
Anthony and he's been quite He's shooting seventy two percent

1252
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:36,960
on drives. Grant that that's just I don't know, that's

1253
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:42,000
it's I they're better. They're clearly more equipped there. They're

1254
00:58:42,039 --> 00:58:43,920
more capable than a lot of people were giving them

1255
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:45,719
credit for. But I don't we didn't come in talking

1256
00:58:45,719 --> 00:58:48,199
about them that they're gonna be tenth in the East

1257
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:51,000
or something. And I've tried to focus on the Yannis

1258
00:58:51,079 --> 00:58:53,800
workload and his usage when he's on the court, But

1259
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:57,159
I've also kind of wondered, Okay, maybe he will will

1260
00:58:57,159 --> 00:58:58,880
he peter out at some point, But he's also playing

1261
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:02,280
thirty two plus minutes game. That's not an astronomical number

1262
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:04,920
right now. Are they deeper than maybe we gave him

1263
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:06,760
credit for? Might be the question here. I don't know,

1264
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:08,840
Like I still don't know what the ceiling of this

1265
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:10,599
team is. I've seen a lot of people get into

1266
00:59:10,639 --> 00:59:13,239
the Rollins might be a star. They could be the

1267
00:59:13,239 --> 00:59:15,639
best or second best team in the East. I can't

1268
00:59:15,679 --> 00:59:18,760
get there. The Ryan Rowins stuff, especially, we knew what

1269
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:20,679
he could do on offense, although I didn't expect him

1270
00:59:20,679 --> 00:59:23,199
to make life hell on Jalen Brunton and Steph Curry

1271
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:26,800
back to back games essentially. I just the offense from

1272
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:29,280
him has been huge, And I don't when you watch

1273
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:31,679
him do you get the sense that he is doing

1274
00:59:32,199 --> 00:59:35,440
anything the efficiency Maybe some of the volume will come down,

1275
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:38,280
But do you watch him and think none of that

1276
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,800
he's doing it's not. He's out there hitting the step

1277
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:43,239
back off the dribble triples with eighteen seconds left on

1278
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:43,840
the shot clock.

1279
00:59:44,239 --> 00:59:48,599
Speaker 2: My yeah, No. I having watched him now and by

1280
00:59:48,639 --> 00:59:50,519
the way, like he was on the Warriors, a few

1281
00:59:50,559 --> 00:59:52,920
years ago, and I was just like, this guy's not anything.

1282
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:57,239
So what he's done in that amount of time to

1283
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:00,119
become this player, which I think he's. I think he's

1284
01:00:00,119 --> 01:00:02,079
for real. I think, like I don't know about this

1285
01:00:02,119 --> 01:00:06,159
All Star stuff, but like he is a true plus

1286
01:00:06,199 --> 01:00:09,280
defender at the guard that has enough length to guard

1287
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:11,360
ones or two's. I do think you just put him

1288
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,039
on the opponent's main ball handler in the back court

1289
01:00:14,119 --> 01:00:17,280
and he's going to be very good there. Offensively, I've

1290
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:20,719
just shocked, Like he has so much craft. He has

1291
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:23,280
the two foot plant stuff, the step throughs, he can

1292
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:27,000
step back, he can hit leaners. He's long around the

1293
01:00:27,039 --> 01:00:29,239
basket so he can finish, and he goes with either hand.

1294
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:32,559
He's a three level scorer, like he really is. He

1295
01:00:32,599 --> 01:00:34,840
showed it all against Golden State last night. He really

1296
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:39,639
truly now five games in, who knows, Like, you know,

1297
01:00:39,679 --> 01:00:44,000
when you become an actual priority for the opposing defenses scouting,

1298
01:00:44,119 --> 01:00:47,400
things can change, right, There are bound to be things

1299
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:49,920
that defenses can force him to do that he doesn't

1300
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:52,400
want to do. But that said, he's never going to

1301
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:54,880
be the first priority as long as the honest is

1302
01:00:54,880 --> 01:01:00,519
out there, having a true point guard that can pass, dribbleshoot, defend.

1303
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:04,760
He he's I mean, Miles Turners more established, but you

1304
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:06,840
could argue that he's the second best. He's been the

1305
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:08,840
second best player on the rights this year. He might

1306
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:12,440
be going forward. I think he's a legit plus starter

1307
01:01:12,639 --> 01:01:15,599
today right now, I don't know what the ceiling is,

1308
01:01:16,119 --> 01:01:19,039
but uh, I don't. I don't think it's fake. I

1309
01:01:19,079 --> 01:01:23,000
really don't think we're gonna be looking back in January

1310
01:01:23,079 --> 01:01:25,840
and saying, hey, remember remember the heater Ryan Rollins was on.

1311
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,559
What happened? Like, I really do think he's gonna be

1312
01:01:29,519 --> 01:01:32,760
just a major value add and he does make me

1313
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:36,480
rethink being pretty low on the bucks, like I can't

1314
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:38,440
even remember if I went over under, but they felt

1315
01:01:38,519 --> 01:01:41,559
like a you know, a forty two ish, you know,

1316
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:44,400
win team to me. I think if he's gonna be

1317
01:01:44,519 --> 01:01:48,719
something like this, you gotta you and Yanna stays healthy.

1318
01:01:48,719 --> 01:01:52,320
Obviously that's the thing you might have to think about

1319
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:55,840
bumping them up. Now that said, they're not on Cleveland

1320
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:58,960
or New York's level, Like, let's not let's stop that conversation.

1321
01:01:59,039 --> 01:02:00,639
I think until we see a lot more. Do you

1322
01:02:00,719 --> 01:02:03,960
agree with that or are you kind of buying into like, well,

1323
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:06,440
they did beat the Knicks and and maybe they belong

1324
01:02:06,519 --> 01:02:08,400
up there as maybe they're the third best team in

1325
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:10,280
the East. Can you can you get that far? I

1326
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:11,400
don't know If I can't.

1327
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:14,760
Speaker 1: No, I think I might be ready to pencil them

1328
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,239
in his top six to where, because right now, who

1329
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:19,079
do you eat? I know they haven't had the cleanest starts,

1330
01:02:19,119 --> 01:02:21,679
but New York and Cleveland you expect to get there

1331
01:02:22,119 --> 01:02:24,400
and your trust meeter kind of runs out after that.

1332
01:02:24,519 --> 01:02:26,320
So I mean, if you were to make who's the

1333
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:28,159
third seed? I thought I was gonna be higher on

1334
01:02:28,239 --> 01:02:30,480
Orlando to start the season. Same and I'm just not

1335
01:02:30,719 --> 01:02:32,199
the same thing with Detroit. I thought it was gonna

1336
01:02:32,199 --> 01:02:33,360
be a little bit higher on them. I'm not.

1337
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:35,639
Speaker 2: Atlanta hasn't looked good. And Trey Jung's got the knee.

1338
01:02:35,639 --> 01:02:38,159
We don't actually as we're recording this, have have any

1339
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:41,679
reports yet, but he's gonna miss time. We know that.

1340
01:02:42,559 --> 01:02:45,119
So like the usual suspects you'd throw in that number

1341
01:02:45,159 --> 01:02:49,679
three position. They don't look as they don't look like

1342
01:02:49,679 --> 01:02:50,760
we thought they would.

1343
01:02:50,679 --> 01:02:52,639
Speaker 1: To be fair, then we might have to buy it

1344
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:55,559
as are the Bucks for real? Because well, actually I

1345
01:02:55,559 --> 01:02:58,599
think the question here is a lot of the stuff

1346
01:02:59,159 --> 01:03:02,039
over the pre offseason excuse. He came down to what

1347
01:03:02,119 --> 01:03:03,960
is this team supposed to do? And Giannis isn't on

1348
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:07,119
the court? Yeah, and Miles Turner, who has not had

1349
01:03:07,519 --> 01:03:10,639
the strongest offensive start to the season, shooting forty percent

1350
01:03:10,679 --> 01:03:13,199
on threes without Giannis on the court, shooting like sixty

1351
01:03:13,239 --> 01:03:15,440
percent on two's or something. The Bucks are winning the

1352
01:03:15,519 --> 01:03:18,920
minutes that Yiannis is off the floor so far, and

1353
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:21,480
the minutes with Ryan Rollins and Miles Turner, I believe

1354
01:03:21,519 --> 01:03:24,880
without Giannis have been pretty good if you believe the

1355
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:26,960
Buck By the way, we're on agreement, Kevin Porter Junior

1356
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:29,320
shouldn't see the starting lineup once he comes.

1357
01:03:29,039 --> 01:03:32,360
Speaker 2: Back, right, absolutely not Like Rollins is the guy that

1358
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:35,000
you like the what do they do without Giannis? He'said, well,

1359
01:03:35,159 --> 01:03:37,760
Rowlins can run some pick and rolls and maybe that's enough.

1360
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:40,159
Like Porter Junior is not going to do that consistently,

1361
01:03:40,239 --> 01:03:42,000
not well enough, and he's not going to defend anywhere

1362
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:45,280
near as well as Rowlins does. So yeah, you this

1363
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:48,320
is a it's his job, Like you cannot remove him

1364
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:50,000
from the starting lineup. That would be insane.

1365
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:53,320
Speaker 1: So I think if they if if you believe, and

1366
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:57,599
so I'm actively asking you that this team is better

1367
01:03:58,239 --> 01:04:02,000
equipped to log it's without Yannis. I'm not saying entire games.

1368
01:04:02,039 --> 01:04:04,400
If you extrapolate that sample size then will be issues.

1369
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:09,639
Do you buy that they can survive without Yannis on

1370
01:04:09,679 --> 01:04:10,320
the court.

1371
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:17,159
Speaker 2: In spurts? Yeah, like I but it just as good

1372
01:04:17,199 --> 01:04:20,960
as I think Rawlins has looked. He and Miles Turner

1373
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:23,840
cannot be the basis him plus Miles Turner plus three

1374
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:27,519
shooters can is not good enough to approach that third

1375
01:04:27,559 --> 01:04:29,920
best team in the East level. Like I think you

1376
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:34,559
can expect to win those minutes sometimes, but you're gonna lose.

1377
01:04:34,719 --> 01:04:38,800
Like it's not a it's not like a I'm not sure.

1378
01:04:39,079 --> 01:04:42,119
I'm not sure like how enthused we can get based

1379
01:04:42,159 --> 01:04:44,719
on the sample just yet, but like it's better than

1380
01:04:45,159 --> 01:04:48,039
either of us imagined it would be the non Yannis stuff, right,

1381
01:04:48,119 --> 01:04:51,079
Like that's that's fair to say already, Right.

1382
01:04:51,079 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 1: So I think I I still feel like if they

1383
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:55,840
want to be second or third in the East, I

1384
01:04:55,840 --> 01:04:58,199
have to be y honest, ends up missing five games

1385
01:04:58,239 --> 01:05:01,039
total or something about the season is played at this level?

1386
01:05:01,559 --> 01:05:04,639
What is I think a more interesting question? Who do

1387
01:05:04,679 --> 01:05:06,639
you buy more into as a threat. And you could

1388
01:05:06,679 --> 01:05:08,920
just say, well, the difference is Yiannis, but the Bucks

1389
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:11,360
are the heat. Who do you think is more real

1390
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:12,239
based off their start?

1391
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:14,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, if I don't get to say the difference is Yiannis,

1392
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:21,199
the argument gets a little harder. Man, I guess I

1393
01:05:21,239 --> 01:05:23,320
guess I'd buy the Bucks.

1394
01:05:23,039 --> 01:05:28,920
Speaker 1: More just some of the numbers since yeah, that some

1395
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:31,039
of the numbers are screaming at me. Not too when

1396
01:05:31,039 --> 01:05:32,519
you look at what some of the players are doing

1397
01:05:32,559 --> 01:05:35,000
with Giannis off the court. So the Kyle Kuzin was

1398
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:37,000
seventy percent on two is with how Yanna's on the floor.

1399
01:05:37,119 --> 01:05:39,039
I mean, maybe that does make sense because they're a

1400
01:05:39,039 --> 01:05:42,280
little redundant there Cole Anthony shooting the lights like from

1401
01:05:42,280 --> 01:05:44,480
inside the arc. But also you could argue, well, something

1402
01:05:44,519 --> 01:05:47,119
like Cole Anthony will probably shoot better from three this year,

1403
01:05:47,119 --> 01:05:49,519
and just seeing aj Green go off from three, that's

1404
01:05:49,559 --> 01:05:52,360
not really any sort of a Miles Turner overall should

1405
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:53,880
shoot better from three, right.

1406
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:56,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Bobby Portis, we haven't even mentioned him.

1407
01:05:56,320 --> 01:05:59,440
He's had some big nights Like there's I mean Torrian

1408
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:02,320
Prince's what do you shoot like almost forty four percent

1409
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:05,360
from three last year, Like it's Trent, like those guys

1410
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:08,800
are gonna make you know they can't be left like that.

1411
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:12,119
That's just it's funny. Like we spent so much time

1412
01:06:12,199 --> 01:06:15,920
lauding the Heat for this unconventional approach. I think we

1413
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:21,000
both believe in it less than Milwaukee's extremely conventional offensive construction, right, Like,

1414
01:06:21,079 --> 01:06:25,119
it's just it's cool to be innovative. But superstars surrounded

1415
01:06:25,119 --> 01:06:29,239
by shooters and secondary creators is just like got it

1416
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:31,079
makes sense? That works. We know that works.

1417
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:33,760
Speaker 1: The what I was gonna We haven't talked about the

1418
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:36,079
defense a lot, and so they are. When coming into

1419
01:06:36,119 --> 01:06:37,800
this season, I thought they were gonna be a better

1420
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:39,880
defensive team than offensive team. When you were looking at

1421
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:44,119
and ironically Ryan Rollins, Miles Turner, Johannis having those guys

1422
01:06:44,119 --> 01:06:46,000
made me think, yeah, that just makes a ton of sense,

1423
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:49,280
and we have offensive questions now. To this point, the

1424
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:51,679
both have been fine, but the defense is eleven versus

1425
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:55,039
sixth for the offense. I absolutely buy the idea that

1426
01:06:55,079 --> 01:06:58,159
Milwaukee can be a top ten, eleven or twelve defense.

1427
01:06:58,199 --> 01:07:01,079
It's not They're not getting super lucky on opponent shooting.

1428
01:07:01,159 --> 01:07:04,079
They have just between Giannis and Miles Turner, like enough

1429
01:07:04,079 --> 01:07:06,320
guys who are gonna be able to make plays around

1430
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:09,519
the rim. They've done a better job on a lot

1431
01:07:09,559 --> 01:07:11,480
of like than in seasons pass Like, oh, this is

1432
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:13,760
a team that can actually get back in transition. That's

1433
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:15,880
that's like a pretty that's like pretty big for them.

1434
01:07:16,039 --> 01:07:19,360
So I think that is something I just I guess

1435
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:21,320
when I look at the Bucks, I'm trying to figure out,

1436
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:23,760
like do I just buy this is a it's not

1437
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:25,800
even a top end team. But if you told me that, yeah,

1438
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:27,960
they're gonna be the sixth or seventh best offensive team

1439
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:29,760
in the league, then yeah, they're the third best team

1440
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:32,920
in the East at worst. Probably I'm still struggling to

1441
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:35,239
get there. But Ryan Roinds is making me rethink a

1442
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:36,480
lot of things.

1443
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 2: He is the he's the wild card. He's he's the

1444
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:43,360
one that's changed things for them. I agree, he's I mean,

1445
01:07:43,519 --> 01:07:45,119
he's the most improved player in the league right now,

1446
01:07:45,199 --> 01:07:48,159
right like I mean, it is the short short list conversation.

1447
01:07:48,679 --> 01:07:52,440
Speaker 1: We this isn't a novel concept. We need either a

1448
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:55,280
actual definition of most improved player or two separate awards

1449
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:57,360
to where it's just the guy that made the established

1450
01:07:57,360 --> 01:07:59,800
player who made the star leap for and then most

1451
01:08:00,079 --> 01:08:03,039
because it's Ryan Rowins because he was good last year,

1452
01:08:03,039 --> 01:08:05,960
but he's still working off a relatively low And what's

1453
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:08,920
more impressive I guess the leap that and I'm not

1454
01:08:09,199 --> 01:08:11,719
picking one of these guys for most for player right now,

1455
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:14,800
But what's more impressive the leap that Ryan Rowins has

1456
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:16,960
made or the leap that Victim webber Yama has made

1457
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:19,479
when he is working off the lower baseline. He's going,

1458
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:21,800
to your point, though, he's going to be appearing on

1459
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:24,640
MIP ballots if this gift God is absolutely for sure.

1460
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:27,239
Speaker 2: If we had multiple awards, what would we talk about?

1461
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:31,399
So we need fuzzy criteria. It's a feature, not a fair.

1462
01:08:31,319 --> 01:08:34,600
Speaker 1: Enough, fair enough. I lie, this was not our final team.

1463
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:38,000
We have one more team, the Philadelphia seventy six ers. Grant.

1464
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:41,119
I don't know what to make of them. I mean,

1465
01:08:41,159 --> 01:08:43,840
we can go ahead, you're gonna say.

1466
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:47,199
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say. I think, to me, what's

1467
01:08:47,279 --> 01:08:49,960
more interesting about them is not is not the like,

1468
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:53,399
how have they done this? They're they're undefeated. They haven't

1469
01:08:53,439 --> 01:08:56,479
really beaten anybody, unless because Orlando, we don't know they've

1470
01:08:56,479 --> 01:09:00,479
beaten Boston, Charlotte, Orlando, and Washington. Three of the four

1471
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:03,880
wins were double digit comebacks, so like they could easily

1472
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:04,560
be one in three.

1473
01:09:05,279 --> 01:09:07,640
Speaker 1: I mean minutes is ty averaging per game.

1474
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:12,920
Speaker 2: That's the trillion. It's over forty right, forty three, that's right,

1475
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:16,720
and edgecomb is is not that far behind forty point two.

1476
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:24,640
Jesus Christ. I think, what's the place my brain keeps

1477
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:29,000
going is what is MBAT in the way now? Like,

1478
01:09:29,239 --> 01:09:31,479
because you've got a theory of a team now that's

1479
01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:35,680
built on hyper athletic guards that should play fast and

1480
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:39,920
be in space, but then you've got this twenty minute

1481
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:43,920
a night former MVP that needs touches that can't really

1482
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:46,960
help you on defense anymore, that slows the game down.

1483
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:51,239
Like the the interplay between those two identities and we

1484
01:09:51,279 --> 01:09:54,039
haven't even had Paul George yet is I don't know.

1485
01:09:54,199 --> 01:09:56,640
It's just that's the most interesting discussion point to me

1486
01:09:56,800 --> 01:10:01,359
of like what is this team now? And later like

1487
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:03,399
how how does this all work? Because I think the

1488
01:10:03,439 --> 01:10:06,960
guard stuff like I don't I don't know Max Maxi's

1489
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:08,880
another guy that he's just gonna win most improved again

1490
01:10:09,399 --> 01:10:13,439
and then an Edgecombe has been spectacular. McCain hasn't played

1491
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:15,640
yet either there's another guard to throw in there. You

1492
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:18,399
see what I'm getting at. It's just like there's multiple

1493
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:22,439
identities on this team and it's hard to square them.

1494
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:24,439
Maybe we wouldn't even be having this conversation if they

1495
01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:26,319
hadn't played such a soft schedule and they were one

1496
01:10:26,319 --> 01:10:29,279
and three. But it's interesting because they've won on the

1497
01:10:29,279 --> 01:10:30,239
strength of their guards.

1498
01:10:31,159 --> 01:10:33,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, they have basically four guards out there

1499
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:36,199
at once too, and I'm curious as to I'm sure

1500
01:10:36,199 --> 01:10:38,439
some minutes will be pulled back for VJ and MAXI

1501
01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:40,520
wants Paul George is healthy, but I'm curious to see

1502
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:43,640
what that does to their rotation because they've been leaning

1503
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:46,399
heavily on the guards, and look, it's work. They have

1504
01:10:46,439 --> 01:10:48,760
a one thirty two point four offensive rating with VJ

1505
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:52,239
and MAXI on the court. I've been really impressed. We've

1506
01:10:52,239 --> 01:10:56,159
talked about him already, but the interplay or the dynamic

1507
01:10:56,199 --> 01:10:58,520
I should say, between VJ. Edgecomb and Tyree Maxie where

1508
01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:01,239
they just kind of know how to play off one another,

1509
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:04,279
and I could deal with maybe fewer mid range looks

1510
01:11:04,279 --> 01:11:07,079
from VJ. Edgecombe, but he's also playing entirely within the

1511
01:11:07,079 --> 01:11:09,680
flow of the offense. Maxie is still not shooting well

1512
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:11,560
from two or even finishing well at the rim, and

1513
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:14,600
he's already an All NBA player this season if we

1514
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:17,840
were to make those teams, the free throw like jump

1515
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:20,600
for him has been absolutely massive. I mean, the raw

1516
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:22,479
number is more than doubled, but even when you get

1517
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:25,760
into the fouls that he's drawing on as an overall

1518
01:11:26,279 --> 01:11:30,000
share of his plays huge for this team. I don't

1519
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:32,600
have a problem as much now if the Embiid that

1520
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:35,039
we've kind of seen so far, and there's been flickers

1521
01:11:35,039 --> 01:11:37,199
and flashes, but he's even said he's not comfortable with

1522
01:11:37,560 --> 01:11:39,560
They've tried playing him in short purst. They've tried playing

1523
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:42,199
him his regular rotation and then letting him sit a bunch.

1524
01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:44,279
I don't know what the answer is, but I actually

1525
01:11:44,359 --> 01:11:46,680
like the idea of kind of having the counter punch

1526
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:49,600
for this team. And they're also when you see Tyre's

1527
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:52,399
Maxin and VJ Edge come on the court together, there's

1528
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:55,359
this perception that the team plays really fast all the time,

1529
01:11:55,479 --> 01:11:57,319
and they're not. And if you're not gonna do that,

1530
01:11:57,359 --> 01:12:00,279
I think you could use Joel. Embiid still is even

1531
01:12:00,279 --> 01:12:02,720
if he's setting screens and picking and popping. I don't

1532
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:04,039
know if he's ever is he going to be. He's

1533
01:12:04,039 --> 01:12:06,319
not gonna be attacking off the dribble the same way.

1534
01:12:06,319 --> 01:12:06,439
Speaker 2: Ever.

1535
01:12:06,479 --> 01:12:09,000
Speaker 1: Again, I honestly don't know. We're so early into the

1536
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:10,920
season that maybe he gets used to the minutes that

1537
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:13,319
he's playing, or they he just gets healthier. We'll have

1538
01:12:13,399 --> 01:12:16,359
to see. I don't think he's out of place. I

1539
01:12:16,359 --> 01:12:19,600
think they need him to be a certain version of

1540
01:12:19,680 --> 01:12:22,039
Joelle Embiid if we want to buy into the six

1541
01:12:22,119 --> 01:12:24,119
Ers as a real I don't even want to say

1542
01:12:24,119 --> 01:12:25,479
a threat in the East, but as let's say, a

1543
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:28,880
top six, top eight team in the Eastern Conference.

1544
01:12:29,359 --> 01:12:31,319
Speaker 2: I guess I get hung up on I think that's right.

1545
01:12:31,399 --> 01:12:33,520
And also to your point, they actually are about two

1546
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:36,279
possessions per hundred faster with him beat on then off.

1547
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:38,840
Ramples are small like that, but the numbers are what

1548
01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:42,640
they are. I guess I what I can't get past

1549
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:46,840
is I think you're right that what would make the

1550
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:49,319
most sense is you're getting the as you said, this

1551
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:52,039
version of Embiid where he is like a pick and

1552
01:12:52,079 --> 01:12:55,079
pop threat that you throw out there for his twenty

1553
01:12:55,079 --> 01:12:57,000
minutes a night, or maybe it becomes more than that

1554
01:12:57,079 --> 01:12:59,159
I don't know if you I think if you want

1555
01:12:59,239 --> 01:13:03,479
him to play sixty plus games sort of probably can't

1556
01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:09,039
be more than that. It just it's you can't you

1557
01:13:09,079 --> 01:13:13,479
can't build anything really if the guy you're using for

1558
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:15,600
a few minutes a night as a change of pace

1559
01:13:16,319 --> 01:13:19,039
is making what he's making. And that's just that's just

1560
01:13:19,079 --> 01:13:22,439
where they are. Like maybe we should, it's not. It's

1561
01:13:22,479 --> 01:13:24,880
not productive to get into the like how bad that

1562
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:28,479
contract looks. But it just gets back to my original

1563
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:32,039
point of like, the dynamics of this team are bizarre

1564
01:13:32,399 --> 01:13:35,479
because embiid is there, and because he's making what he's making,

1565
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:39,520
and because the adjustment for him and for everybody involved

1566
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:44,880
of going from central figure former MVP, everything orbits around

1567
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:47,479
him are title chances hinge on how many games he plays.

1568
01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:50,880
Our whole fate is tied to him too. He's like

1569
01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:54,560
the fifth or sixth most important player on the roster

1570
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:57,760
or something like that, which is like, how do you

1571
01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:01,880
navigate all that? Again, maybe maybe that's not a good problem.

1572
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:03,800
It's a good problem that you've got these guards in

1573
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:06,439
Edgecomb and even McCain last year that are good enough

1574
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:09,720
to where you even have this other identity. But it

1575
01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:12,119
still is just a weird It's hard to get my

1576
01:14:12,159 --> 01:14:16,119
head around, like who are the Sixers based on, you know,

1577
01:14:16,239 --> 01:14:19,119
the the embiid of it versus this kind of new version.

1578
01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:23,319
Speaker 1: And honestly, I'm probably more concerned with what I guess

1579
01:14:23,319 --> 01:14:26,560
because Embiid stands he's not overlapping with any one mission

1580
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:30,920
critical at his position. Sure it's and so with Paul George, Itch, Yeah,

1581
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:32,960
this team could feels like they could use wings, and

1582
01:14:33,079 --> 01:14:34,760
I love Justin Edwards to see a true wing. He's

1583
01:14:34,760 --> 01:14:36,720
also not playing a ton of minutes for you would

1584
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:38,600
think he, of all people, might be able to get

1585
01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:41,039
moresy at eleven and a half per game. I worry

1586
01:14:41,039 --> 01:14:44,199
about Paul George coming back in the sense of, okay, well,

1587
01:14:44,239 --> 01:14:46,000
what does he look like within this I think as

1588
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:49,560
a complimentary offensive player, you probably if they're all hell,

1589
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:51,399
do you trust him more than Embid? I don't know,

1590
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:54,119
But when some of your best lineups or some of

1591
01:14:54,199 --> 01:14:58,359
your best punches have come, we're gonna have three guards

1592
01:14:58,399 --> 01:15:01,239
on the court. For guards on the court, he's more

1593
01:15:01,319 --> 01:15:02,960
out of play because you're always going to need the

1594
01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:05,399
big man, and so I'm curiously how they use him.

1595
01:15:05,399 --> 01:15:07,119
And then you mentioned Jared McCain. We even talked about

1596
01:15:07,159 --> 01:15:10,039
him because he hasn't played, but I guess I trust

1597
01:15:10,119 --> 01:15:11,840
him to fit into all this. But are they brazen

1598
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:14,840
enough to say, yeah, VJ. Tyres and McCain are gonna

1599
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:18,800
play together because VJ. Edge Comb is grant he's listed

1600
01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:21,439
at six to four, right, I would like I want

1601
01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:26,680
to recount, Yeah, me and and he fights defensively. We'll

1602
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:29,000
see if it comes together. But you also have to ask, well,

1603
01:15:29,079 --> 01:15:31,439
is that set up sustainable? With them playing so small

1604
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:33,479
all the time. They have a bottom ten defense right now,

1605
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:35,800
and when you look at this team, that's honestly the

1606
01:15:35,800 --> 01:15:38,319
bigger question to me is they're the best three point

1607
01:15:38,319 --> 01:15:40,560
shooting team in the league, but they're also not taking

1608
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:43,239
a ton of them relative to the league average. And

1609
01:15:43,279 --> 01:15:45,520
then I'm like, well, is Kelly Bridgejuni're gonna shoot like this?

1610
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:47,720
How much do you trust VJ. Edge Comb moving forward?

1611
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:51,199
There are questions about the offense, but can they be

1612
01:15:51,199 --> 01:15:55,159
better than this on defense? I don't know if you're

1613
01:15:55,159 --> 01:15:57,119
gonna play so small. Even if you say, hey, we're

1614
01:15:57,119 --> 01:15:59,399
not gonna play small, I don't know that you could

1615
01:15:59,399 --> 01:16:01,319
build me a lot that I'm gonna say, yeah, you

1616
01:16:01,359 --> 01:16:03,640
really threw a defensive fastball at the other.

1617
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:06,840
Speaker 2: Right, because because their athletic guard like Maxi's not a

1618
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:10,159
very good defender, and so like Edgecomb has a heavy

1619
01:16:10,159 --> 01:16:12,079
lift there, McCain has not been a good defender in

1620
01:16:12,119 --> 01:16:16,000
his tiny career sample. I don't think Embiid is necessarily

1621
01:16:16,039 --> 01:16:19,760
a positive defensive player anymore, just because of the mobility

1622
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:23,600
and and like if you can't switch on to anybody,

1623
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:25,800
so he limits the coverages you can use, and that

1624
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:28,199
he's involved in. Who knows what Paul George is gonna

1625
01:16:28,199 --> 01:16:30,760
give you. I think you're right that the defensive side

1626
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:33,880
is and it hasn't been that good so far, and

1627
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:37,720
they haven't played anybody. It could get like really problematic,

1628
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:40,840
and then the offense has, you know, an even heavier lift.

1629
01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:43,680
Speaker 1: I will say, I just wonder if by virtue of

1630
01:16:43,720 --> 01:16:47,479
Joelle Embiid being so massive, is he still at least

1631
01:16:47,479 --> 01:16:49,279
a deterrent to some extent.

1632
01:16:49,359 --> 01:16:50,880
Speaker 2: But he can't get off the floor and he can't

1633
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:51,359
move though.

1634
01:16:51,479 --> 01:16:55,279
Speaker 1: I just don't know this is the caveat that just

1635
01:16:55,359 --> 01:16:58,000
look at the teams that they have played. But teams

1636
01:16:58,039 --> 01:17:01,680
are getting to the rim eight point three percent at

1637
01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:03,399
like lower when he's on. That was a terrible way

1638
01:17:03,439 --> 01:17:05,199
to phrase it. But eight point three percent fewer of

1639
01:17:05,239 --> 01:17:07,439
their shots are coming at the rim when he's on

1640
01:17:07,439 --> 01:17:09,960
the floor, and that's in line with what he did

1641
01:17:10,079 --> 01:17:13,840
last season, and like again, a diminished capacity because he

1642
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:16,119
didn't play in a ton of games. But I'm with

1643
01:17:16,199 --> 01:17:18,039
you in the sense I'm worried because of the way

1644
01:17:18,039 --> 01:17:20,720
that he's moving, can't jump. The mobility is just not there.

1645
01:17:21,159 --> 01:17:23,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's an it's an eye test analysis,

1646
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:25,560
like and we should defer to the numbers. The numbers

1647
01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:28,439
are what they are. He is reducing rimtem frequency, but

1648
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:31,800
like I just yeah, I it's hard for me to

1649
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:33,880
imagine he can be helpful.

1650
01:17:34,439 --> 01:17:37,039
Speaker 1: Well, does it help them at all? Where if their

1651
01:17:37,079 --> 01:17:41,000
offense is going to be good to great? And where

1652
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:42,399
do they even rank on the offensive end of the

1653
01:17:42,399 --> 01:17:43,600
floor right now? I didn't even have that there, So

1654
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:46,079
they're second. That's pretty good if that, If that's just

1655
01:17:46,119 --> 01:17:49,119
what they are, does your defense get set enough to

1656
01:17:49,159 --> 01:17:52,239
where it's that's how you insulate Joelle embiid a little bit.

1657
01:17:52,560 --> 01:17:54,439
I don't know that's a fair thing to question out.

1658
01:17:54,479 --> 01:17:56,960
I don't know what to make it. As team. I'm Ultimately,

1659
01:17:57,199 --> 01:17:59,119
I don't know how to frame the question of are

1660
01:17:59,119 --> 01:18:02,279
they real? Do you think let's take this in two layers.

1661
01:18:02,359 --> 01:18:04,199
Do you think that they have the ability to be

1662
01:18:04,279 --> 01:18:05,960
a top five offense? Are you buying that?

1663
01:18:08,279 --> 01:18:10,640
Speaker 2: I gotta say no, just because it's propped up by

1664
01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:14,399
unsustainable shooting at this point, and like Maxi and Edgecomb

1665
01:18:14,479 --> 01:18:19,119
can't be this good, you know full time? I think

1666
01:18:19,159 --> 01:18:24,840
the offense is is is gonna be good? Top five?

1667
01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:27,800
Is that's a little too good? What do you think?

1668
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:30,880
Speaker 1: Do you? I think I'm probably with you. And the

1669
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:33,239
thing that I would also throw into there is even

1670
01:18:33,239 --> 01:18:35,840
if they Edgecomb's gonna hit a rookie wall, we always

1671
01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:38,520
see it. But I'm the minutes that Tyrese Maxi's locking

1672
01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:40,800
specifically would concern me. Those havey you have to figure

1673
01:18:40,800 --> 01:18:42,239
ot a way to pull those back. Maybe you should

1674
01:18:42,239 --> 01:18:45,720
get healthier. The second of three questions, do they have

1675
01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:49,680
the ability to be better than I'm gonna say nineteenth

1676
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:51,199
in defense this year?

1677
01:18:52,359 --> 01:18:56,720
Speaker 2: I mean maybe like George, I'll say, yeah, George isn't

1678
01:18:56,960 --> 01:19:00,399
what he was, but he's got length and he's smart

1679
01:19:00,439 --> 01:19:04,439
and will be better than you know. He'll help. He'll

1680
01:19:04,439 --> 01:19:07,119
help more than like some of their three and four

1681
01:19:07,159 --> 01:19:10,319
guard looks might and maybe a den Bona really is

1682
01:19:10,399 --> 01:19:12,880
going to be you just block every shot and that'll

1683
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:14,920
be another way for them to be decent. I don't

1684
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:17,079
know if they're better than they can't be Top ten

1685
01:19:17,279 --> 01:19:19,600
like right, or even top fifteen feels feels out of

1686
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:20,000
the question.

1687
01:19:20,479 --> 01:19:22,399
Speaker 1: I think even if embiid was'm beaid he would be,

1688
01:19:22,800 --> 01:19:24,920
he would need to be available for sixty five games

1689
01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:27,359
and play thirty minutes for that probably to happen. Okay,

1690
01:19:27,439 --> 01:19:30,880
so are they a potential top six team in the East? Yeah,

1691
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:34,840
your name? Uh, I'll start.

1692
01:19:35,039 --> 01:19:39,199
Speaker 2: I'm gonna say I can pretty skeptical. I think. I

1693
01:19:39,199 --> 01:19:42,239
think what's again, what's most interesting is like the things

1694
01:19:42,279 --> 01:19:44,720
I'm considering when trying to answer that question are not

1695
01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:48,119
the things I was considering before the season started, right,

1696
01:19:48,159 --> 01:19:49,760
because it was just like how many games in be

1697
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:53,000
gonna play? How many minutes? That there's your answer, and

1698
01:19:53,039 --> 01:19:55,039
now it's just like that doesn't really have anything to

1699
01:19:55,079 --> 01:19:55,840
do with it?

1700
01:19:55,840 --> 01:19:58,479
Speaker 1: Is it? It's a good It's an objectively good thing,

1701
01:19:58,520 --> 01:20:00,159
though that we have to think of it. We were

1702
01:20:00,199 --> 01:20:02,560
able to think of it in those broader terms of

1703
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:06,039
it's not about how often is Joelle Bid playing. It's oh,

1704
01:20:06,079 --> 01:20:08,399
what is the ceiling of this team of VJ Edgecomb

1705
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:11,000
and Tyres Maxi being your two most valuable players?

1706
01:20:11,239 --> 01:20:14,239
Speaker 2: Well, yes and no, because if it was the original

1707
01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:17,560
set of factors, which is just how many games does

1708
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:20,039
Embid play? That presupposes that he was going to be

1709
01:20:20,520 --> 01:20:22,680
like an All Star or an All NBA level player,

1710
01:20:22,680 --> 01:20:26,039
you might still rather have that than Okay, we got

1711
01:20:26,039 --> 01:20:29,399
this guy that can play twenty minutes and I don't know.

1712
01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:31,319
It cuts both ways for me.

1713
01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:34,720
Speaker 1: It adds You're right, it adds to the confusion of

1714
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:38,199
their outlook, which makes them more fascinating. Probably, Yeah, we

1715
01:20:38,239 --> 01:20:40,920
have some quick hitters. You want to take us through them?

1716
01:20:41,239 --> 01:20:45,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, Dan, let's start with the New York Knicks.

1717
01:20:45,800 --> 01:20:47,840
And I can't remember what my quick hitter was going

1718
01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:49,239
to be. I was hoping it would get up on

1719
01:20:49,239 --> 01:20:50,720
the screen so that I could ask you.

1720
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:54,199
Speaker 1: It's buy or sell them as a top ten defensive team.

1721
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:58,960
Speaker 2: I'll start and then you can go, I'm selling Mitchell

1722
01:20:59,000 --> 01:21:02,520
Robinson hasn't played yet, but I struggle with the idea

1723
01:21:02,520 --> 01:21:04,960
of Cat. I think we got a factor in the

1724
01:21:05,039 --> 01:21:07,479
quad for Cat, but he's looked less mobile than ever

1725
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:09,520
to me. So I'll sell them as a top ten defense.

1726
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:12,920
Speaker 1: We'll say you I would probably. Yeah, I'm gonna sell

1727
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:16,840
them as well, just because even if Mitchel Robinson comes back,

1728
01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:20,319
you sort of have to wonder, oh, how often is

1729
01:21:20,359 --> 01:21:22,199
he gonna play for the defense to be good. But

1730
01:21:22,279 --> 01:21:24,600
what I will what I am going to keep an

1731
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:27,000
eye on while I'm not fully prepared to sell the

1732
01:21:27,079 --> 01:21:30,119
idea is now that you have mchal Bridges in a

1733
01:21:30,159 --> 01:21:33,560
better defensive. So Deuce McBride when he's around, and he

1734
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:36,119
is back with the team now at the point of attack,

1735
01:21:36,199 --> 01:21:38,439
and then og and I ope mchal Bridges are behind him.

1736
01:21:38,720 --> 01:21:40,880
Even if you have Kat and Jalen Brunson on the floor,

1737
01:21:41,159 --> 01:21:43,319
there's a lot of different things you could do. With

1738
01:21:43,399 --> 01:21:46,239
all of that being said, even given that their offense

1739
01:21:46,279 --> 01:21:49,439
has underperformed relative to their defense with the amount of

1740
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:51,520
wide open threes, they're missing the fact that they're learning

1741
01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:54,199
a new system. I ultimately think that I'm gonna believe

1742
01:21:54,239 --> 01:21:56,079
if you have to pick one, what's more likely a

1743
01:21:56,079 --> 01:21:58,239
top five offense or a top ten defense. I still

1744
01:21:58,239 --> 01:22:00,359
think that they'll get up there on offense before they

1745
01:22:00,359 --> 01:22:01,239
would on defense.

1746
01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:04,039
Speaker 2: Unscripted quick hitter. Are you higher or lower on the

1747
01:22:04,119 --> 01:22:08,359
knicks overall today than you were before the season started? Lower?

1748
01:22:09,039 --> 01:22:11,319
Speaker 1: And it has little to do with the offensive learning

1749
01:22:11,359 --> 01:22:15,199
curve and more just they're not as deep as people

1750
01:22:15,239 --> 01:22:17,000
were advertising. I think I sit the kool aid a

1751
01:22:17,039 --> 01:22:19,319
little bit on that. It's just Jordan Clarkson's erratic Gershon

1752
01:22:19,399 --> 01:22:22,319
YABOUSELI banged up right now, was not playing up to snuff.

1753
01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:25,079
The Mitchell Robinson have any game he would load manage

1754
01:22:25,119 --> 01:22:28,239
to start the season. And if Karnthe Towns is really

1755
01:22:28,239 --> 01:22:31,800
playing through a grade two quad strain, I would assume

1756
01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:34,119
he needs a misstime with like grade two that's not like,

1757
01:22:34,159 --> 01:22:36,279
that's not if you're.

1758
01:22:36,199 --> 01:22:39,119
Speaker 2: Playing through its grade two quad strain, maybe don't how

1759
01:22:39,119 --> 01:22:39,560
about that?

1760
01:22:39,680 --> 01:22:43,319
Speaker 1: And the backup playmaking of it all makes it and

1761
01:22:43,399 --> 01:22:45,600
it comes back a lot. It's not fully on Towns,

1762
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:46,840
but a lot of it does come back to karl

1763
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:48,680
Anthy Towns. For me is it feels like we're dealing

1764
01:22:48,680 --> 01:22:50,920
with and I probably fell victim to this a little

1765
01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:54,199
bit too. Another team, despite a decades of evidence to

1766
01:22:54,239 --> 01:22:57,720
the contrary, believing that Karl Anthony Towns is something other

1767
01:22:57,760 --> 01:23:01,039
than he is, which is a generational talent who is

1768
01:23:01,079 --> 01:23:03,239
not always going to play like it. And even the

1769
01:23:03,279 --> 01:23:06,000
things that he does best, like when he's driving and

1770
01:23:06,039 --> 01:23:09,199
scoring through contact, he's not playmaking for others out of

1771
01:23:09,199 --> 01:23:11,119
live ribbles. He can get tunnel vision in the post.

1772
01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:14,159
The defense you've now, you've not decided because you've been

1773
01:23:14,159 --> 01:23:16,640
willing to go by force because your front court has

1774
01:23:16,640 --> 01:23:19,079
been so banged up. But you think that you're gonna

1775
01:23:19,079 --> 01:23:20,960
need to play do a big a lot to insulate

1776
01:23:21,039 --> 01:23:25,079
him defensively. That's that's a problem. So I'm I'm lower,

1777
01:23:25,119 --> 01:23:27,159
but I'm more hopeful. A lot of people have been

1778
01:23:27,199 --> 01:23:30,000
dooms Day with their start. I just think, Wow, they're

1779
01:23:30,039 --> 01:23:34,079
playing materially different compared to last season, and so I

1780
01:23:34,279 --> 01:23:37,119
And one of the bigger differences is too Kat will

1781
01:23:37,119 --> 01:23:40,079
have to get healthier, but on balance, the entire team

1782
01:23:40,119 --> 01:23:42,000
will hit more of their wide open threes. Is just

1783
01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:44,359
sort of where I'm at with them. Grant buy or

1784
01:23:44,479 --> 01:23:48,359
sell another offense. Defensive one the Trailblazers is the top

1785
01:23:48,399 --> 01:23:49,520
ten defense this year.

1786
01:23:50,479 --> 01:23:53,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm gonna buy it. This was now they're

1787
01:23:53,600 --> 01:23:56,560
just barely there for the moment. I think they're ninth

1788
01:23:56,560 --> 01:23:59,760
in cleaning the glass this was always the way that

1789
01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:02,479
the were gonna be good, right, Like, I think, like

1790
01:24:03,039 --> 01:24:05,439
just between you add holiday to a team that already

1791
01:24:05,479 --> 01:24:08,479
has Timanti Kamara, Mattis Seibol's back, Like, I don't know

1792
01:24:08,560 --> 01:24:10,560
what he is bottom line as a defender, but he

1793
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:13,039
definitely deflects a lot of basketballs and that's valuable to

1794
01:24:13,079 --> 01:24:15,960
a defense. Clinging, I think was always someone that his

1795
01:24:16,159 --> 01:24:20,680
chief value was gonna be defensively. Uh, they they're gonna

1796
01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:23,199
be defined by their defense. Their offense we have questions

1797
01:24:23,239 --> 01:24:27,039
about and I would say, like this is aligning with

1798
01:24:27,079 --> 01:24:30,840
our priors pretty pretty closely, or at least with mine. Anyway,

1799
01:24:30,840 --> 01:24:31,680
what do you think.

1800
01:24:32,359 --> 01:24:34,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess it maybe be more interesting. Are they

1801
01:24:34,159 --> 01:24:36,720
a league average offense? They are playing so fast right

1802
01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:39,479
now Jeremy Grant off the bench is apparently a cheat

1803
01:24:39,560 --> 01:24:42,439
code for them. I think, I don't know. When you

1804
01:24:42,479 --> 01:24:45,920
watch them defend, though, they have to have maybe like

1805
01:24:46,359 --> 01:24:48,600
they have to have the highest pickup point in the NBA.

1806
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:50,840
They're number one, and they're forcing turnovers on twenty two

1807
01:24:50,840 --> 01:24:53,079
percent of their possessions. I think when you look at

1808
01:24:53,079 --> 01:24:55,680
the personnel, even when they and they've had minutes at

1809
01:24:55,680 --> 01:24:58,119
this where it's Oh, there's not like an actual center

1810
01:24:58,159 --> 01:25:00,840
on the court. They're just built like Blake Wesley just

1811
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:05,119
being in his Have you watched Blake Wesley dribble uncomfortable?

1812
01:25:05,359 --> 01:25:06,079
It's uncomfortable.

1813
01:25:06,119 --> 01:25:08,560
Speaker 2: It's also uncomfortable to dribble against Blake Wesley because he

1814
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:10,520
picks them up the second you touch the ball in

1815
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:12,439
the back court. That's his right job now.

1816
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:14,680
Speaker 1: So they just they have those guys. He looks like

1817
01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:16,560
when he's bringing the ball up the court and he's

1818
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:19,560
not trying to speed demon it. You remember those skippet

1819
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:22,000
things when we were growing up. It looks like he's

1820
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:24,399
wearing one of those and trying to come up the floor.

1821
01:25:24,520 --> 01:25:28,479
It's very it's very uncomfortable. I think top ten is

1822
01:25:28,520 --> 01:25:31,720
a high bar, but what are what's the point of

1823
01:25:31,800 --> 01:25:34,119
not overreacting to the start of the season. I'm gonna

1824
01:25:34,479 --> 01:25:36,760
I would sell them having a league average offense quite

1825
01:25:36,760 --> 01:25:39,760
friendly even if drew Jeremy Grant not gonna score like

1826
01:25:39,800 --> 01:25:41,520
this forever drew out. It looks like he might have

1827
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:44,479
more gas in the tank than a lot of people expected.

1828
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:47,600
I'll buy the top ten defense though they're they're a

1829
01:25:47,600 --> 01:25:49,479
fun team. We have one more I'll.

1830
01:25:49,359 --> 01:25:53,720
Speaker 2: Give you I remember it. You're gonna buy or sell

1831
01:25:53,800 --> 01:25:57,840
the Utah Jazz as a top five offense, which is

1832
01:25:57,880 --> 01:26:01,079
what they are right now with the Did you see

1833
01:26:01,079 --> 01:26:03,640
the nickname for the front court? I think Mark Stein

1834
01:26:03,720 --> 01:26:06,159
or maybe Jake Fisher on the steinline put it out there.

1835
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:07,840
Speaker 1: No, I didn't. What was it?

1836
01:26:08,199 --> 01:26:13,560
Speaker 2: Trace, Chase r Kalle Philipowski, Lauri Markin, and Walker Kessler

1837
01:26:13,720 --> 01:26:14,600
solid nicknaming.

1838
01:26:15,239 --> 01:26:18,159
Speaker 1: I think if those if you could play three seven

1839
01:26:18,159 --> 01:26:20,880
footers for like thirty minutes a game, I'll continue, and

1840
01:26:20,920 --> 01:26:22,720
they're gonna play that the way that they do right now.

1841
01:26:22,720 --> 01:26:26,239
I'm gonna buy it. The thing that I can't buy, well,

1842
01:26:26,279 --> 01:26:27,319
I don't know if I can't buy it, but like

1843
01:26:27,359 --> 01:26:30,039
Kante George looking like a point guard all of a sudden,

1844
01:26:30,079 --> 01:26:34,079
has excellent chemistry with basically every single one of Utah's

1845
01:26:34,079 --> 01:26:37,399
big men. I want to buy it. But the reason

1846
01:26:37,439 --> 01:26:39,399
I'm gonna sell it is because I have to believe

1847
01:26:39,439 --> 01:26:42,239
that they're gonna pull back at some point despite what

1848
01:26:42,319 --> 01:26:44,720
Austin Age said. And even if they don't, I don't

1849
01:26:44,760 --> 01:26:46,920
know if Kante George is gonna shoot and pass the

1850
01:26:46,920 --> 01:26:49,199
swell on his drives. Larry market In I think is

1851
01:26:49,199 --> 01:26:52,119
proving a lot of people they were concerned about him

1852
01:26:52,199 --> 01:26:54,039
and the way he performed last year, and he's been

1853
01:26:54,039 --> 01:26:58,720
playing fantastic right now, I have to sell top five

1854
01:26:58,960 --> 01:27:01,520
is just insane in Saturday, So I'm gonna have to

1855
01:27:01,560 --> 01:27:01,920
sell it.

1856
01:27:02,720 --> 01:27:05,159
Speaker 2: You've also we've got Ace Bailey up on the on

1857
01:27:05,239 --> 01:27:09,000
the graphic, I think one way to make sure you're

1858
01:27:09,039 --> 01:27:11,239
not a top five offense. As as the season goes on,

1859
01:27:11,439 --> 01:27:13,439
he's getting more minutes that would have gone to market

1860
01:27:13,479 --> 01:27:16,079
In or Philipowski, which is probably what you should do

1861
01:27:16,239 --> 01:27:18,800
to develop him. But he's not going to be nearly

1862
01:27:18,840 --> 01:27:22,159
as efficient or provide the volume as an offensive player.

1863
01:27:22,199 --> 01:27:24,720
Maybe the volume, but he's gonna knock your offense down,

1864
01:27:24,840 --> 01:27:26,079
and that's not a bad thing.

1865
01:27:26,680 --> 01:27:30,039
Speaker 1: I also wonder just giving Shie Mikail Luke the kind

1866
01:27:30,039 --> 01:27:33,880
of agency and license he has on offense. I understand it,

1867
01:27:34,359 --> 01:27:36,159
but I kind of feel like that might also work

1868
01:27:36,199 --> 01:27:38,159
in service of pulling your offense back to.

1869
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:41,560
Speaker 2: Not have him as the starting shooting guard. Very often

1870
01:27:41,880 --> 01:27:44,279
in my preseason predictions for the Jazz.

1871
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:47,000
Speaker 1: But there could you you would buy into them, just

1872
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:49,680
though they might be more fun to watch than anyone.

1873
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:51,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, now I could get I could get there. George

1874
01:27:51,439 --> 01:27:52,840
has a lot to do with that because he was

1875
01:27:52,920 --> 01:27:55,880
just such a such an empty calorie, like just bad

1876
01:27:55,920 --> 01:27:59,920
decision factory last season, and just just him developing kind

1877
01:27:59,920 --> 01:28:02,119
of puts all the other pieces in better position to

1878
01:28:02,119 --> 01:28:05,079
succeed in the offense to look like this is so

1879
01:28:05,119 --> 01:28:06,880
far it's been much more than a functional offense, but

1880
01:28:06,880 --> 01:28:09,000
it could be a functional offense all year.

1881
01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:12,399
Speaker 1: This is do you think, let's say, let's fast forward

1882
01:28:12,680 --> 01:28:15,359
fifteen games, they're still in the top let's even say

1883
01:28:15,359 --> 01:28:17,640
the top ten or something, let's say top seven of offense?

1884
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:20,199
Is this Are they going to be steering out of them?

1885
01:28:20,239 --> 01:28:23,399
Does Isaiah Collier coming back from the hamstring issue? Does

1886
01:28:23,399 --> 01:28:25,399
that help or hurt them? I know he's their best passer,

1887
01:28:25,439 --> 01:28:26,760
but there's real limitations there.

1888
01:28:26,800 --> 01:28:29,239
Speaker 2: It'll hurt because he's not going to score like Georgia's

1889
01:28:29,279 --> 01:28:31,439
right now. If he starts eating into Georgie's minutes, it's

1890
01:28:31,479 --> 01:28:35,600
like a negative by default. Yeah, I mean if they're Yeah,

1891
01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:37,439
if we get to like the fifteen to twenty game

1892
01:28:37,479 --> 01:28:40,159
mark and this is a top ten offense, then that's

1893
01:28:40,199 --> 01:28:43,439
when it's just not to pick on him, like it's

1894
01:28:43,439 --> 01:28:45,920
not for some Cody Williams minutes get him out.

1895
01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:49,760
Speaker 1: There the other thing, and I am were you surprised

1896
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:51,600
you did got to mention this that as Bailey is

1897
01:28:51,600 --> 01:28:53,560
not playing more to start the game.

1898
01:28:53,640 --> 01:28:55,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I thought he.

1899
01:28:55,640 --> 01:28:57,960
Speaker 1: Was going to get what VJ. Edgecomb is doing right now.

1900
01:28:58,079 --> 01:29:00,000
I thought he was going to get that type of volume.

1901
01:29:00,119 --> 01:29:02,880
Speaker 2: That's his rookie of the Rookie of the Year case,

1902
01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:05,520
right is like they got no reason not to just

1903
01:29:05,560 --> 01:29:09,439
give him maximum touches. He'll struggle, the offense will be bad.

1904
01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:12,359
He'll have good counting stats that that hasn't happened yet.

1905
01:29:12,359 --> 01:29:15,359
And maybe this is a let's showcase the Makay looks

1906
01:29:15,399 --> 01:29:17,399
and whoever else is of the world, and maybe we

1907
01:29:17,439 --> 01:29:20,439
can trade him for something before we really steer into it.

1908
01:29:20,479 --> 01:29:23,119
But I mean, you have to Bailey has to be

1909
01:29:23,199 --> 01:29:26,039
a bigger part of this team, like by mid season

1910
01:29:26,039 --> 01:29:26,960
at the absolute latest.

1911
01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:29,560
Speaker 1: He just has to now the final thing to buy

1912
01:29:29,640 --> 01:29:32,520
or sell he shooting? What does he shooting six of

1913
01:29:32,600 --> 01:29:34,960
eight from three point range this year? Does Walker Kessler

1914
01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:36,399
belong in a three point competition?

1915
01:29:37,359 --> 01:29:40,199
Speaker 2: H for it's an entertainment product, is it not. I

1916
01:29:40,199 --> 01:29:41,520
think I think that's the definite.

1917
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:44,319
Speaker 1: Yes, I will say, the way he's kind of played

1918
01:29:44,439 --> 01:29:46,920
is making me wonder what was the extension number that

1919
01:29:46,960 --> 01:29:48,760
would have locked him down and should they have pounced

1920
01:29:48,800 --> 01:29:50,199
on it. I know the cap hold stuff and the

1921
01:29:50,239 --> 01:29:53,039
cap the them prioritizing cap space, but I don't view them

1922
01:29:53,079 --> 01:29:54,720
as a team that's gonna want to fast track this.

1923
01:29:54,880 --> 01:29:57,560
Maybe maybe I'm wrong with They've been fun, They've played

1924
01:29:57,560 --> 01:29:59,479
some just really like the game against Phoenix was just

1925
01:29:59,520 --> 01:30:01,439
super fun. It was super nerve wracking and I had

1926
01:30:01,439 --> 01:30:04,159
no rooting interest. Super fun. You have anything else for us?

1927
01:30:04,199 --> 01:30:05,439
Are you ready to take us out of here?

1928
01:30:06,199 --> 01:30:08,439
Speaker 2: I'm ready to take us out of here. Hot starts

1929
01:30:08,439 --> 01:30:11,239
by us as well. I buy those good great starts

1930
01:30:11,239 --> 01:30:15,439
of the season. Excellent content being produced. As always, everybody,

1931
01:30:15,479 --> 01:30:18,119
please rate, review, subscribe, spread the word, tell your friends,

1932
01:30:18,119 --> 01:30:20,199
tell your enemies. Join our discord links for that in

1933
01:30:20,239 --> 01:30:23,760
the YouTube podcast description, and let us know in the

1934
01:30:23,800 --> 01:30:28,520
comments which hot starts you believe in that we don't

1935
01:30:28,640 --> 01:30:31,000
and which you don't believe in that we do. And

1936
01:30:31,039 --> 01:30:33,000
then also let us know how many threes you think

1937
01:30:33,039 --> 01:30:35,720
Walker Kessler will hit on the season and why it's

1938
01:30:36,119 --> 01:30:38,840
what's the over under fifty? Is he gonna hit fifty threes.

1939
01:30:40,399 --> 01:30:43,479
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take ah, I'm gonna take the over. We're

1940
01:30:43,520 --> 01:30:45,000
gonna get your point where they might. Yeah, I'm going

1941
01:30:45,039 --> 01:30:46,600
over to We're taking you more fun.

1942
01:30:47,399 --> 01:30:49,399
Speaker 2: Shouts Pregnant Temopolitics chair Amount