Speaker 1: Hell, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome back to the Penguin
Review Series Episode four. Oh I didn't even change my name,
still the clown Prince of Bowling Bowl Blow Bowling Blowing.
You can check out our Patreon ause soon. That's in
the name of Superman three. That retrospective will be coming
you guys very soon, quite a time, or do Superman four.
So yeah, patrons, get on that Patreon producers, you're gonna
get them very soon. If you want to just become
a regular Patreon you know Phase two and up. We'll
get those monthly because Patreon. Right now we got Fantastic
four and Superman which is going to be our exclusive
retros for the next little bit here. So yes, and
I'm joined by.
Speaker 2: The window Taylor Field.
Speaker 1: I thought you said the widow at first, so I
was so confused, but yes, we are back. Kirkland should
be maybe joining us in a little bit, but we'll see.
But yeah, thank you to everybody that you know listens
the podcast always just a little bit day later, because
if you don't know, we are a Canadian podcast. So
it was our Thanksgiving. We tried to do it last night,
but all of us that's just how it goes as
you think that, you know, dinner this time we're gonna
do this time. You know, people are fire, alarms go
off in Kirkland's sake. But yeah, just didn't work out.
So we're here a little bit of day you know,
dayly eight. But that's okay. Still a great episode to
talk about. We have lots of good things happening this week.
What we got after nine is happening this week. Mega
Loopulos is not out, so we're going to be watching
if you want to join join again. Lots of good
stuff happening on Patreon right now. Two things which remind me. One,
I got to put out the Halloween poll. Patreon producers
are gonna be voting which Halloween move we're gonna be watching.
There's some different picks in there, so we got that
coming up. And then also Phase two patrons up this weekend,
Saturday at ten a m PST. Is it Saturday or Sunday?
I don't want to scrow. It's Saturday, right, yeah, Saturday, Saturday.
We're gonna be watching Pooh Blood Honey two. I don't
think you need to see the first one, but I
guess you always can.
Speaker 2: But definitely need to watch the first one.
Speaker 1: I don't think so.
Speaker 2: I high all a universe's connected.
Speaker 1: You gotta highly done it. I think you could get five.
But yeah, it's our movie night. We do one every
quarter and we're just gonna it's gonna be us with
some patrons having a good time. I think last year's
Halloween we watched the mean Ones. That was a fun time.
So yeah, come join and lot's good stuff. Venom three
predictions are coming up. We're reviewing this and Agatha every week,
so check that out. Side quests will be happening, so
there's always lots of good stuff on the feeds. And
the most important thing is Extra Life is happening just
under three weeks from now. Terry you ready, I've had
everyone been like, oh it's that time again already and
so yeah, it is that time again. So yeah, so
you show me it is time. We are going to
be staying up twenty four hours to raise funds for
the BC's Children's Hospital. We would like to raise two
thousand and five hundred dollars, so we very much appreciate that,
even if it's just a dollar you could donut, We
very much appreciate it. All those donations are tax deductable.
There's gonna be tons of fun things going on. We
got trivia back. We're gonna be playing Twister the G
Crew for the first time, so hopefully we don't injure
each other. Kirklin and Delan do some chess. We're gonna
be doing some three layer charades. We're gonna be doing
oh gosh, what else is there? There's tons, tons of
janga is at some point happening. We're gonna be doing
a Marble arcadea where we're doing fight Club Tournament number two.
Fight Club two's happening where it's just us INNA. Hopefully
lot of us canna win. I went back and watched
the footage. I forgot that Sarah's came in unpromptu and
he won the whole thing.
Speaker 2: So accepted my loss. I'm gonna fight.
Speaker 3: But there's a few of those games, like, man, if
it's not that original, what was that original fighting game
we did? I just fucking popped off out of that's
the one. Yeah, it's not that I don't know Kirk
Immortal Kombat. Dylan just instinctively knows how to how to win,
and he just cleans house in that game.
Speaker 1: Well, this year we got some different ones where we're
doing Marvel and Capcon from like the old. Yeah, we
got that. We're gonna be doing multi verses, which I'm
not sure if you've ever played. I think a lot
of people haven't played. So we'll do some more Mortal Kombat.
So yeah, tons of fun there and yeah, lots of
good stuff. If we hit certain amounts, I'm gonna shave
my head completely bald. It's gonna do some funky stuff
with his beard. Give him some you know, give them
the munshops, give them the Hull Cogan stash, all that
could jazz. So, like I said, tune in our social
media we'll be announcing more stuff. And if you can't donate,
that's fine. Just on the day come watch like the
video share. We'd very much appreciate it because, like we said,
this fan, the money all goes towards families that need
that need surgeries, all that type of stuff. You go
to our link and they have all the information there
on what we do and what the funds are funds
and your funds go towards, So we very much appreciate that. Taylor,
what did you think of Offuly Nonsports episode four of Oh,
I was so mad. I didn't know how to pronounce it.
And then she said it in her toast like the
name of the episodes, like Sekanti or something like that.
But she said said so smoothly, and I was like, oh,
I gotta adopt that. Now, last twenty four hours already
already out of my brain, you know. So Tayla's looking up,
He's gonna try and find it, but.
Speaker 2: Weird, I don't even know how to spell it.
Speaker 1: So we'll just put Penguins episode four. I'll look into it.
Tell me about episode four.
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, I think that this episode was wonderful. I
you know, you go in and you're thinking you're gonna
get like the follow up, just like Penguin Victor now
and again non spoilers, you think you're gonna get them
kind of like the explosion and the fall and everything
going on with their their journey and everything after that
last heated episode. But it's just a nice, uh, simmering
narrative that's focusing on a certain story that is just great.
To get this this backstory and you get a lot
more emphasis on this character. And I just thought this
was this was awesome, And it's not all just following
on this this little narrative. It takes a that's kind
of a spoiler. It gets kind of wrapped up at
the end, and oh my god, where I get I've
been eaten?
Speaker 2: What's going on here?
Speaker 1: He's gonna mess the whole thing.
Speaker 4: Oh you guys do with your settings?
Speaker 3: And uh yeah, I just think that when you get
into this, this end part of the episode here, it's
just fantastic, because holy shit, it just last week definitely
set the stage for some crazy shit to be coming,
and now this episode I feel like set the stage again,
like oh man, like we're halfway through and the powers
to be have really started to step into their shoes
and so it's just gonna be absolutely bonkers.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: I thought for sure that the story with with Oz
was going to go a different route, but again, like
he wasn't necessarily a large FOCALSS focal point in this episode,
which is fine, but I felt like his story was
gonna go one way.
Speaker 2: But the way that they showed how.
Speaker 3: Certain things unfolded and the way and when he was
just addressing certain people, I was like, holy fuck, like
this is crazy and it's just oh yeah, it's it's
just it's just nuts. There's something about it, and it's
just so like addicting with the way that they've written
this and just how much of a player he really
really is, especially after that moment he had with the
with Sophia. So yeah, it's just it's absolutely bonkers. Is
just a fucking great episode. I love this show, so
I can't wait to get to to next week.
Speaker 2: But yeah, pass it along.
Speaker 4: Well, good morning, gentlemen. Yes, I.
Speaker 5: Fucking love this episode. This episode was absolutely insane. I
feel like what was so good about it was that
it was very surprising, Like I wasn't expecting to get
an episode like this really at all in this show,
but it was. It was very welcome, definitely focusing more
on on Sofia and kind of just a little bit
more of her backstory, and I was just kind of
shocked with what we were getting. I feel like some
of the revelations was not what I was expecting to
get in this season, and it just it added a
lot of, i don't know, some spice into an already
spicy tale. So yeah, I thought it was really really
good and then of course quality, it was just it's
just immaculate. The score in this episode was like so
much more I don't know, just like up there. For me,
I feel like it just added a lot more intensity
to some already really really intense scenes, like some almost
disturbing scenes. So that was that was nice to have.
And yeah, just like I don't know, peering peering into
like a side of Gotham that.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 5: It's not like it's my first time seeing like something
in Gotham portrayed this way, but this one just felt
so much more like, I don't know, scary, like but
like not even because like I compare it to like
other scary factors that uh maybe something like Arkham. It's
like like hits On definitely like in the games, but
just in general, like I feel like this was maybe
like a more realistic view on it, and for that reason,
it just felt a lot scarier. So yeah, I really
really liked the decision with what we did there. What's
what's this Chicksnake? Christine Milioti, Man, my gosh, this was
like man, just not the man version, the version, but no,
I thought she was just She's already been so fantastic
throughout the show, but this this episode specifically we uh,
she goes places that I don't know. It's just wild
to see and phenomenal performances and yeah, no this is
this is a fantastic episode to breakdown.
Speaker 1: So hey, this is what she we were talking about Kirkland,
the name of the episode, and the like the speech
she's given, it's whatever.
Speaker 5: It means Gentani or whatever the hell they say to
new Beginnings.
Speaker 1: You pretty Yeah, you're missing a little bit of that.
You're missing a little bit of the spice on there.
Did the hand motion too when she said in her
last sounds so cool. I'm gonna adopt that. And then
we got him like I don't fucking know what she said.
I can't remember, but uh uh yeah no, I ecko
these guys. This show like I don't know, this show continues.
It's like a run out of praise for it. It
just makes me very excited for when we get to
The Batman. Like, I just trust this team so much.
I think there's just certain things I've been waiting to
see in live action where yeah, sure they've done like
people have seen the promotionals. That's sure, they've done Arkham
and the Gotha and stuff like that. But like, I
feel like I've always been wanting to see Arkham as
a truly terrifying place, and we only got like a
glimpse of it. I really hope there were those rumors.
I remember a couple of years ago and they shuffle
things around that they were developing that Arkham massam show man.
I would take a whole show of Matt Reeve's Arkham
asyle because I feel like we just got like a sliver,
We got a taste of it here, and I just
feel like, lots of times it's it's hard because like,
do you make it very comical? Do you just make
it very you know, like oh, lots of characters everywhere,
But with this, it just felt like a sense of
you do not want to be in this place, which
to me, Arkham should be right unless you're like the
fucking joker who can match that crazy. If you're for
your at least even for your first time, you should
be going in there and it should be a rough
which is so for Sophia. But yeah, she not that
she hasn't but just knocked out of the park. It's
a centric episode, and I think it did two things
that I'm always asked for. I Fike. There's so many
shows we review lately we're like, oh, it'll be really
great if we got just like a full flashback to
the episode of this character, and we just don't because
either the shows are too short or they're not like
they're on many episodes, like, oh, we don't have time
for that. But I think we talked about the like
even Tay, I remember we talked about theh soak. I
can't remember who the two names Ray Stevenson and his character,
but yeah, currently didn't watch, but there was the two
like sif like characters and the same thing, like all
these characters wouldn't be great if we got like a
whole flashback to tell a little bit about him how
they meet. Unfortunately, Race Stevens passed away, so I imagine
the recast. But I just feel like there's so many
shows in the geek like fandom that we watched that
need that that need like I, hey, we don't have
enough context here, you know. Even I hope in an
Aga thought that's something we've talked about last week tail
where it's like I kind of think this is needed.
I hope that happens where maybe it got too trophy
for a while maybe people have got tired of the
flashback episode, but to me, it's like there's a reason
why they It was like a trope in most shows
because you could learn a lot. And my second point
is which I think they did really well, is they
did revelations and they did reveals that if you watch
episodes one to three, you wouldn't even know and didn't
feel like a slap and a face or like a
twist for the sake of a twist, like oh, we
got you there. You didn't see this coming, and it's like, well,
that's just dumb because that doesn't make sense or that
feels very forced. This is stuff where oh I read
that completely wrong. But now when you go back, even
we'll talk about spoils, there's little things even last week
that were said that's like, oh, like I don't think
we even talked about Like that's odd, And then this
week when you see the episode, you're like, oh, this
makes complete sense now, so yeah, I don't know. It's
just like like great TV one oh one, where it's
just this character that you know spent ten years away.
It would make sense to do that sole episode. And
even then I thought this was a great hybrid because
they even it was mostly a flashback, but mynor spoilers.
There was still stuff that was going on the present
day plot and important stuff too. It didn't feel like
she took a drink out whole episode and then like
at the end the glass is done, like oh next
week on Penguin's like no, there's like at least ten
to fifty minutes. It was like, oh shit, now we're again,
and then completely new spot. And I think the series,
I think you said this here, it's going in a
different place than I thought for sure. Even last week,
I'm like, oh, os will find his way out of
this situation. It's like, that's right. I don't think so anymore,
like I think and this one I love again. I'm
not trying to bring other stuff down and raise this,
but I feel like episodes like this for the shows
we've reviewed lately happened in like the second or third
last episode where it's like, okay, we're just set up
for the finale, and even then we'll either say there's
too much to do, or it's like, we really wish
this happened earlier. This episode four, we're not even halfway,
or I always forget I think it's eight episodes, right,
is it eight?
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure?
Speaker 1: Okay, so even then halfway point two things one, all
these episodes are a full hour, so we got, you know,
at least around four hours left, and it's happening in
the midway. Like I would have been so pissed if
this was which happens A Loney's the penultimate episode and
then the finale they have to rush to wrap everything up, right,
It's like, we can take our time with this, so no,
they're just this for me was easily the best episode
I know. Last week in our discord there's a debate
of like one versus three. I completely forgot, like get
that one, but this for me is like it's up
there for multi and even awe, it's like we got
to see different shades. So it's just man, it's just
it's just great. It can't say enough about it, you know,
not enough good things about it. So we read to
get to spoilers here. Oh yeah, Helia hell yes's okay,
a little breaking the fourth wall. Taylor Kirklam, Who's uh,
who's taking this one? I can't take this. I got
family downstairs, so I don't want to take this one.
So sure I got it, big threat. All right, we'll
be right back after this ad break and we're back.
So yes, if if you didn't watch the episode, or
if you did whatever, but dancing around, what happens is
we pick up right where we see a little bit
more of the conversation from last week when Penguin and
Christina were Christina fucks up. Few were on their knees
at least last week. It was oh, like, I wonder
what happened and Penguin left her so you could see
the whole you could see the line right of Penguin. Oh,
I didn't know what to do. I thought they got you.
I'm so happy or alive. This was so like I
can't remember her name, but the one of the Maroney
crime bosses that the Lady always praised, just talking oz
and I was just like, yeah, like I don't need her,
I just need to bring around for this. But she
means nothing to me, Like he's just saying all this
bad shit and again he's just he reminds me of
like an evil version of Jack Sparrow, because Jack Sparrow
would do that right where anytime he got caught, It's
like he would turn on a situation, but he literally
is just saying like, yeah, you could, Like I'm paraphrasing,
but he's pretty much just saying you could kill her,
like I don't really need her. We're just we're I
just needed to bring in the drug. Like it's just
he does. Because I even thought for a minute he
would try to like talk like candidly and like maybe
not like say so much so Sophia would pick up.
But he just also Sophia like right away, he doesn't
even wait, he doesn't even fucking wait, and as such
a good juxtaposition last week, and he's like, oh, you know,
you just go trust me, I'll show you. And it's
just like I don't, like, do you guys think there's
any chance Sophia like on purpose will and I guess too.
She insiny way that he killed Alberto too, so that's
like that's kind of fucked up now too.
Speaker 2: So anything he left her, she saw that he just
drove off and left her, so like.
Speaker 1: She physically saw, Yeah, they loked eyes, they and I
just saw he looked at her and then they left.
But super Night says, fun fact that title, I've already
forgotten it. Satanianiani Shaitani is an Italian toasted loosely translate
made those live one hundred years. Well that didn't happen
in this episode, but we'll get there. But Taylor's what's
AZ up to next week?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that they This episode was just kind
of like setting up the scene and you just hear
like the narration over the top of Oz just saying
like or Sophia's like, how can I trust to And
She's like, well, I'll show you how, and that just
cuts to him.
Speaker 2: Like like, yeah, the fuck her. I didn't need her.
Speaker 3: I've always been little to you guys, like just totally
just turn and turn in a dime here.
Speaker 2: It was just it was great.
Speaker 3: I did not expect him to actually do that. I
thought he was gonna pull something out of his butt
and maybe this is all part of a plan. He
was trying to like set them up the Maroni so
that he could prove to Sofia like hey, I'm actually
working with you for this, like there's something and uh yeah,
it just.
Speaker 2: It didn't work like that.
Speaker 3: He he got the fuck out of there, and Sophia
I thought, I didn't think it was gonna die, but
I thought, man, this is not going good for her.
I did not expect to get the flashback with her character,
but he had just everything like with oz just it
was great. Holy shit, it was great. And I'm okay
with him being the back seat in this episode too.
I feel like, well, I got was great and I
can just kind of stew on that and then we
can tackle him after the fact. I don't know what
he's gonna do because I feel like what Sophia said this.
Speaker 2: Point, or was it at this point, maybe it was
at the end when she was with the.
Speaker 3: Therapist, but she says like, I got no, like, my
family doesn't want me here, I gotta go. If I
don't go, they'll kill me. And I got like, no,
her lab has gone to she's she's really fucked. And
I feel like, okay, that's the same position as oz
Oz is fucked by both families. Now, So what is
he going? What is he gonna pull out? All he
got is his life right now and VIC and a
damaged car.
Speaker 2: So I'm not sure what he's got.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he has, he's got a sister, got the sister
and his mom. He's got his mom too, don't forget her.
She'll be in the third actress with the machine mom
to he's got the whole Carlotle family, but uh no,
Like that's is interesting. I guess we'll get there eventually,
but it's just I'm even curious with Sophia, like how
does that work as far as Okay, Carmine dies, right,
and then okay, it's gonna go to Alberto he dies, Okay,
then it goes to uh the uncle slash brother, right,
But like, clearly this was not I don't think, as
we learn in this episode, she at one point's gonna
take over the family question her dad once done, you're out,
So I don't think the next person in line was her.
So I was just even thinking about like bank accounts,
like like I feel like there's a natural like hey,
here's all the falcony, you know, trust fund, everything you
get in an email document, a folder, all the lawyers, right,
and maybe that's why Johnny's alive, So we'll see I
guess that's why. But whenever, I'm like, how does she
still take over? Though? Like how does she get access
to this and that and that? So that's why I'm
wondering if that's how they're gonna make it that she
doesn't make it the Batman too, or some of the
family or the people that work for them, or it's
kind of like she's like, well, I'm a Falcone, I
run it, but it's like, well, technically you don't because
like you weren't handed. And I wonder somehow if they
might trust Az because he's been around longer than her now, right,
because she was locked up for ten years. So I
don't know, maybe next week it just picks up and
it's classic like everyone works for her, but I just
I'm wondering how that works because she definitely was not
in the succession plan anymore, right.
Speaker 2: So maybe it goes to the little girl.
Speaker 1: That's why she kept her alive.
Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe, yeah, Yeah, It's it's funny. I was kind
of just chuckling at the start of this episode because
of course, last week we're like speculating, like, oh, how's
he gonna get out of this? Like when are they
gonna have that conversation between him and Sophia, like how
everybody knows each other? Well, they fucking had it last week.
We just we're privy to that information. And yeah, I
it's just like man like penguin just showing his cards
right then, and there and Sofia's just like shocked reaction,
and then yeah, that was that was such a good
start to the episode because like the score in the background,
I I can't even remember exactly what it was, but
it was like a higher pitched tone as if it's
just like a like a flash bang went off, and
it's just like a big reveal for like Sophia's perspective
on what's happening, like literally just Mike dropped Mike dropped
moment for her, like from Penguin of just like getting
all this information. She's probably like in shock, like physically
because like she's realizing like her brother she loved and
then Oz the one that betrayed her. And then I
love how that just triggers like the flashback, Like it
was just like a perfect way to start the episode
and get us into this flashback. Like it's even better
than if it would have just started to like her
way back in the day, and like it we just
get like a whole flashback episode from that point. I
feel like the fact that we picked up from last
week carry the intensity of just like the ambush and
everything like it. It just set a good tone to
start the episode, and I don't know. It was just
like a good plate set setter for what we were
about to get, and what we're about to get was
just like terrifying and like, I feel like, up until
this point, I didn't really believe Sophia when she said
she wasn't the Hangman, Like I thought she was too
psychologically like triggered, which she's misunderstood.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, like she's not trying to be a serial killer.
It's like, well I did this for X, Y and Z.
I'm not the fucking like person.
Speaker 5: I'm not the Riddler, right, yeah, yeah, exactly, because like
I feel like, although she's got some some traits, she
felt very defensive anytime someone said the Hangman or anything
like that, and it's it's kind of like how Penguin
reacts with someone calls him like a.
Speaker 4: Rat or something.
Speaker 5: He's just like instant of super defensive. Yeah. So yeah,
that was just like shocking, the like that revelation that
Carmine Falcone would do that to like his own family member.
And then like it's one thing to just like, Okay,
I'm gonna teach her a lesson, do like a weekend
and Arkham scared straight sort of style, but like Yeah,
he literally like permanently fucked her, and then I guess
from that fucked his whole legacy, right because of like
what happens like what she does later on. So it
was just like a mind blowing like revelation episode of
just like everything fall into place, and then by the
end of it, it's like, oh my god, we're not
We're never going back to how things were before this episode.
So yeah, I was just I don't know, I really
really like the the start of it and how you
mentioned Taylor, Like how the episode even before we see anything,
it just had like that line from last week of
like how can I ever trust you?
Speaker 1: It's like, don't worry, like it's gonna Yeah.
Speaker 5: The first thing we see is like him betraying her,
and it's just like, oh my god, So that this
is this is gonna be an intense like back half
of the series now of just kind of.
Speaker 4: Like it it on one end.
Speaker 5: It's interesting because we don't really get to see a
lot of dynamics between Sophia and the rest of the family.
Now we still have what's buddy' name Johnny. Yeah, so
so that's gonna be interesting. I thought for sure she
was gonna she was gonna end him right then and there.
But uh yeah, no, I I am very much excited
to see because I I feel like she's just gonna
be like so souped up on like the scary level
for at least Oz and his his allies, like he
no one's safe in his circle.
Speaker 3: Uh do you guys think that when that reporter first
approached Sophia in that flashback? I have the gist that, Okay,
did Oz set this up? I don't know what really
what point like he started putting things in motion? Was
he just this thing? And like the first step against
her was him just riding her out?
Speaker 1: Well? I don't That's that's what's so interesting with Oz,
right because one thing I liked about this episode where
we said all the first three episodes, he's still a villain,
but we're kind of liking him. We're at this episode,
I go, man, like, again, what a piece of shit?
Like even like in a whole loyalty with criminals, like
you just sold out Sophia, like right, and not even
because we knew he was gonna go with her, but
this is like literally like making her walk the plank,
Like if you're selling out to Maroni's there's just gonna
fucking execute her. But I feel like, and that's where
last week too, he said, oh, I'm not a rat.
I don't think he. I don't think he set the
reporter who the reports a combo character too. And there's
another one we'll talk about later. I don't think he
set that up. But I think he was just talking
to car Mine to just kind of like brown nose
a little bit, like get some good word. And I
don't think as well either, Like I I don't know,
maybe I'm wrong to believe. I probably am. He's Oz
is working me too. I just feel like when Oz
last week said like, oh I didn't know, like I
didn't mean for that to like he he was apologetic
and now we know why because of what happened to her, right,
and he was trying to say like I never would have,
you know, thought that he was gonna go that route
or that hard like I said, I'm paraphrase and whatever
speech was, he's talking about how he did feel sorry.
I don't I don't know if I can believe that
because he did just leave her to die, But I
want to general I want to believe that maybe there's
a part of him that does think, because he even
seemed like a little worked out when the cops were
taken in our way, right, So again I'm still thinking
my hope is that, hey, in a world where it's
penguin versus somebody, penguin is gonna choose himself. So you know, Victor,
look out your fucking dead man in four episodes. But
I still think there's like and I think that's what
makes all the great character. I think there is some
regret there of Okay, it's different to go to prison,
but she got sent to Arkham, which now we've seen
in this episode is they've made it look like a
really terrible place. It's not like some places where it's
just like, oh yeah, Arkham and it's just a jail, right,
It's like, okay, yeah, you're using the name, but nothing
that crazy. So I don't think he set her up,
but I think he was just trying to get some
brownie points and led her down a very bad path.
And now it makes to me even I can't literally
wait to rewatch this because now with her reluctantly working
with him, now I understand because not only was it
just he told on her, but like he put her
down the path of a terrible decade. That's tough to
work with that person, now, you know.
Speaker 4: Oh one hundred percent.
Speaker 5: That was another thing I was thinking about while I
was watching, is like I can't wait to rewatch the
show for many reasons because it's just you know, cop quality,
it's fantastic, But it just seemed like a perfect placement
for this type of episode too, where like we could
have started the show and like been introduced to her
whole story. It's like this is your player for the season,
and then you know, after that it's all modern episodes,
but like you're really not invested at all in the
story by that point other than just the hype of
the show, or you don't really know Sophia. So it's
nice to kind of get introduced to her, hear a
couple things about her, and then jump here and then
now we get to see what's actually real and it
really like how you're mentioning Like last week, there's of
course traits that we are rooting for the penguin, and
Colin Farrell's fantastic, so of course we want to kind
of roots.
Speaker 1: Episode when he's the driver again.
Speaker 5: I felt, yeah, it's like, man, like this is where
he gets the penguin name, like like yeah.
Speaker 1: And he has none of that snarl and like in
the like in the Driver, he feels full on like
a kid who's been bullied his whole life, and he's
like awkward, like when Alberto calls him the penguin, he
like wins is a little and gets some shows like
oh man, I feel so bad for him. But then
you remember again like shit guy criminals, you know, dealing drugs.
But they did such good job of even again Colin
Ferrell playing like a younger ping when they gave him
like a little more hairy, but like he just felt
different still in the makeup. He felt like a different
guy and.
Speaker 5: It was so cool to see, Yeah, really really cool
to see. So like from last week to this week,
I feel like it just shifts a lot of the
way that I feel going forward for the rest of
the show. For just I don't know how I feel
about certain characters. And it's really really nice placement for
that because like it's like if we would have had
it earlier, I wouldn't have cared enough because I just
wouldn't have been invested. It would have happened way later
it's like, oh man, this is this is some juice
we should have got a while ago. So I think
like dead Center halfway through the show is like honestly
perfect for this episode.
Speaker 4: And yeah, it's.
Speaker 5: Funny because like I feel like I love this episode
for many reasons, but like I also just really invested
in the character of Sofia. But like last week, we
also got a flashback of Vic and it just felt
like such a different I don't know, like that one
was also more bite sized, whereas this is like a
lot to kind of throw at us this week, but
it didn't really feel like two back to back flashback
episodes though, like like it felt like a nice placement
for it overall.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 5: I feel like there's something else was gonna mention in
there with Sofia, but it's eluded me unfortunately.
Speaker 1: Do you guys think that Penguin the next time he
sees Sophia, dos he try it all to grease the
wheels in one more time? Do Spinder? Do you think
he even knows I never needed the maron.
Speaker 4: I was just safety.
Speaker 5: But I hope he's running in the opposite direction if
you see Sofia.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder to me, I feel like he's gonna
try it, and then Sofia is gonna pretend, but that
will lead to him right away being danger I'm not sure.
I'm interested to see if Penguin will know the difference
at the times to spin your wheels and the times
like I'm out of luck, and I don't know if
Oz knows that yet, right, this might be the way
he does knows, but he's he's always doing that. He's
like same thing Maroney's having dead to write on his knees,
talking about how he killed the Alberto and he's going
right with them, Like, I don't know. I feel like
he's gonna try. He's gonna try a little bit, but
I don't think it's gonna a stae work on Sophia
this time. I think she's pretty guided.
Speaker 5: So definitely it's safe to kiss the boots of whoever
is the gun pointing at you and whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, she gets a lot. Well, we see
a little bit she's working with stuff with her with
these charities about like women's suicide prevention, mental health, all
that type of stuff. Right, and then, uh, and we
already talk about Oz, but you get to establish he's
the driver and everything, and you meet I can't remember
her name. She's even in the Batman animated series. A crap,
But anyways, to the reporter, she's putting together a case
against her father. I'm putting a bunch of stuff together.
But it's a bunch of women that I've died by suicide.
But there's always these like questionable things about them. Bruises,
broken fingernails, not things you'd usually find on a suicide victim.
But so at this point it kind of gets established
at Alberto kind of a dumb fuck. He's not gonna
be the guy around the family. Carmine gives it to Sofia,
but then later on Sofia has some questions about her
mom and everything like that, and then right away you
just see Carmine going to true Gas like, oh you're sick,
like there's something wrong with you. And then you can
tell it's a bad conversation. Now, did I think it
was gonna go from one to one hundred like that
where it's bad conversation to your dad? Next day you're
in Arkham. No, I thought there might be. I thought
it was like the start of it, but no, Carmine
really takes no like he doesn't even chance it. He
doesn't even be like, oh, that conversation with Sofia.
Speaker 2: On him right, And I mean she spoke to a reporter.
I think that's enough. Like he's got to just lock
it up.
Speaker 1: But he could frame anybody the fact that just one
conversation he framed his daughter like right away.
Speaker 2: She went against the family. She talked, but just just.
Speaker 1: Like she didn't she but she talked to the report.
She didn't give the report anything. She like the reporter
gave her stuff. She didn't give them. She didn't give
them those files because the second once she kind of
knew what the reporter wanted. My dad's a good man.
He went through all this stuff. So she never actually
gave anything. She did talk to them, but uh yeah,
he just he just sold her out. So what do
you guys think about Carmine and ebisde the what do
you guys think about? You know? Go to Mark Strong
playing the younger Carmon Falcon and Plit Sinestro in Green Lantern.
He was a doctor whatever Savon and Shazam.
Speaker 2: He was in. He was in John Carter of Mars
he was in there too.
Speaker 1: Of course. Yeah, who could forget John Carter. I'm shouting
out other comic properties like John Carter of Mars.
Speaker 2: He was also in Brothers Grimsby. You remember that one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, shout out to Ledger.
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, I think I think he did.
Speaker 3: He I think he did a great job playing the
young Carmine Falcone. It just has that eeriness. But yeah,
I think the character though himself just turning on a
dime and just saying this, Sofia, like you're sick, like
everything you had already said just yeah, just crazy, especially
because he did not believe in anyone else to run
the family when he was gone, and he was really
really ready to die on that hill, especially when she
said like there are rules and he was just kind
of like saying, like, shit on the rules kind of
a thing. And then soon after that though, it was
just like, yeah, you're done, You're gone. I didn't think
that they would be that afraid of the press and
of all this stuff. I thought that they because they
run a big crime family. And I'm sure most of
Gotham all knows that they run a crime family, and
so it's like, are they afraid of their public eye
and their public image because they control all of that
that narrative.
Speaker 1: I don't know how much they know yet, right, because
you got to think about this. I can't remember their ages,
but remember there's times where the Falcones and the Wains
like work together a little bit, and this is them
running like suicide prevention and mental health stuff like. So
I feel like this is maybe early on where there's
like whispers like, oh, you know what, the falcona family,
But I think it's still their image. I think when
we get to The Batman, everyone fucking knows, like, Okay,
Carmine's fucking dirty criminal, like look good Penguin, Like, I
think they know no, and I think Gotham's even worse.
But I think this is probably at a point where
maybe it's a bit not everyone knows. It's like a
it's a bad capt secret, right, because like they don't
need to like why does a criminal family need to
do like mental health supporting. They don't need to do that,
especially when it's like about suicide. And that's how Carmine
like framed his wife, right. But even Sophia just thinks
her dad's completely good, right, she doesn't even have the
concept of how bad he is. So I think that
maybe it's just looked as they're a powerful family. They're
not the shits yet, which you know later on the
come the shit.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 3: Like I it still blows my mind that he was
just like, yeah, Arkham's the place to be for you,
because when you look at like the comparison, obviously Blackgate's
more like an actual just a prism or a jail,
not a mental place. Like uh, Maroni's living like a
fucking champ over at black Gate. He's still got his
goons that are just with him and he's calling shots,
still in there.
Speaker 2: But again it makes.
Speaker 1: That's why I didn't want there there, But that's exactly right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't want Sophia in there.
Speaker 1: And I feel like Arkham has like a weird check in,
but you don't check out Paulicy like I feel a
Blackgate yet. Okay, you're not crazy. You gotta sends the
ten years you're in there Arkham. It's like, yeah, as
we saw right, you're in there for six months. It's like, uh,
the do like one doctor says you're not going to
fit stand or not fit to stand trial, so you're
in here for ten years. The jump from six months
to ten and even then I can't. I don't think
we've got explained. Remember they said the newscasters in the
show said like, oh, people are getting released from Arkham.
I don't know why they was overcrowding. They probably looked
at the crazes over crowd Yeah. So but that's why
it's like, if that didn't happen, she's not getting out
of there. She just got either there like by chance
that shit like the Riddler maybe fuck sit up, and
like more people are in.
Speaker 3: There, because most people were surprised when she got out.
That's true in those first couple episodes. So it's definitely
I don't think she well, yeah, I don't think she
was in there for the ten year period because between
that flashbacks you were right now, I don't.
Speaker 2: Think that was what she said.
Speaker 1: That's ten years in my life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that really was ten years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so when she killed Magpie, that then ten years later.
So yeah, she said, you took ten years of my life.
Speaker 3: So we didn't have Batman back then. He was just
a like alive at that point.
Speaker 1: That's what I was trying to figure out, because obviously
they have her playing like a younger version. They changed
your hair a little bit, but like she she looks
pretty much SI, and I'm fine, you don't need to recast.
So I don't know, like because even patt Yeah, I
think Pattison's supposed to be in his thirties now, so
I think he would have been like Bruce would have
been like twenty. So he's probably still just training right now.
Speaker 2: He's training.
Speaker 3: He's probably way off with herzellhol because yeah, there is
definitely no.
Speaker 1: Comic act, right, that's just because he in the movie.
Speaker 3: He's two years in so that would put out Okay,
So this is this is eight years before the Batman
makes his debut in Gotham.
Speaker 2: Then during those flashbacks.
Speaker 1: Yes, it is so yeah, the eight year mark, there's
a fucking bat somewhere and all the Arkham assign people
are going crazy.
Speaker 3: That's right, but you oh, go ahead, Oh I say.
Speaker 1: I was saying I was hoping Berry was gonna be
in there, but then when I found they took her
to the woman's wing, I was like, oh damn. But
I thought just a shot or even just the laugh
of him, but no, we didn't get I thought.
Speaker 5: It was gonna be Harley instead of Megpie, and the
thought that, and I was a little worried.
Speaker 4: I'm like, let's just not go there. Let's just not
go there.
Speaker 5: And then right away she says Magpie, and I'm like,
is that like a Harley alias?
Speaker 4: I hope not.
Speaker 1: She is unfortunately not make it to the Batman too,
but she is a trained hand in hand like assassin
in the DC. Yeah, Megpie, Yeah, Margaret Pie.
Speaker 2: What a thought that she got fucked up?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not a hand to hand show. But like
I kind of like, because maybe I'm wrong, Maybe James
Gonne is like, fuck, I was gonna use Magpie, but like,
trust me, I don't think anyone was gonna use Magpie.
It's like I think that's fun, Like, oh yeah, I'll
throw her in there, you know, like have a combo
character that's like, you know, killed her mom. I think
there's some similar origin stuff. But and I guess I'm
actually wrong when I said about Barry. Barry, I guess
wouldn't have been because I think they insinuate in the
Batman that he put the Joker away, so I guess
he would wouldn't been Arkham yet, So think about that.
There's a chance. Sophia felt Colman has been an Arkham
longer than joker at this point, and look how fucked
up he is. So it's not a good place.
Speaker 4: That's Gotham's crime system.
Speaker 3: You mentioned a good thing with just how things kind
of like get out of control when you're there, because
when she's there and she's being told like her rights
everything like that, like oh yeah, you're not getting visitation
anything like that, Like what the fuck can you do?
Speaker 2: You're just you're stuck.
Speaker 3: Stuff already in their hands, their grasp and no one's
gonna help you. But I I you when you see
Alberto in the first episode, you really think he's a
piece of shit, but it's it's insistent you see in
the flashbacks that he's always been a piece of shit
to Oz and he's just partying and even the family
looks down upon him, but he really really shines. The
actor does a good job with this, just he's the
only one that stood there for her, and it just
goes in hand with like how he was there all
the time visiting her. I guess she got those visitation
rights later on after her ten year sentence. So yeah,
I just think that it's you know, you really feel
for them because they really got dealt the shitty end
of the Stick. And I wonder too, because obviously the
whole family has signed the document saying she was unfit
and kind of mentally stable, but he didn't, and I
guess it makes sense.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I feel like they did such a good job.
It's kind of funny of like making the Falcone family
seem so much more shitty. So now when we again,
I can't wait to watch that party episode when they
were talking about like, oh, we should go to Paris
all this, like when she was there at the family funeral,
just saying like everybody must have been like fuck, like
Sophia's here when he signed, he signed her away. But
I think it's actually i'll say that point till later.
But also I think it's just it's maybe a little Again,
I can't wait to watch The Batman. I feel like
they made Carmine like even shittier than he was in
The Batman of like, oh, yeah, Selena is illegitimate, daughter
kills his mom, bad criminal, But now it's like, send
his daughter away killed his wife, like and who knows
what she did. It's just like it's just like with
each form of media in the Batman universe, Carmine gets
like shittier and shittier when at first it's like, oh yeah,
he's kind of friendly with Thomas Wayne, so maybe it's
like he's a criminal, but he's just you know, has
to do that, right, that's his family, Like, no, he's
doing stuff he doesn't need to do. But I thought
Mark Strong did a good job as well for you know,
trying to be a younger version.
Speaker 3: So that's the relationship dynamic I'd love to see. And
I hope Sophia makes it out of the show because
I want to see Selena, Kyle and Sophia like, Hey,
we're sisters.
Speaker 1: You know. I love that. I don't think it's happening.
I think I think I don't think her in as
can coexist, Like I think one has to go down,
and unfortunately for Christina, they're they're keeping calling Farrell. I
think I think it's her and Vick are going down together,
but maybe I'm wrong. I love it if she you
had like something going on on the side. I don't
know if she was like another person. But that's what
I's gonna say before I throw a kurkle, and I'll
say it now. I feel like they're doing the Captain
America they're doing the endgame Thalki where Soldier kept America.
Fourth thing where Sam gets the shield, and you don't
need to watch the show. The show gives you some backstory,
but when cat for't gonna happen, to just go, oh, well,
we got the shield end games, so he's captain America
now right. I feel like it's the same way where
when you watch The Batman and The Batman Too, you'll
be like, oh, well, Carmine died, so that went the
Falcone family. But really it was Sophia and Penguin fucking
around that got the Falcon. It wasn't Batman that took
him all down. He took out car even Carmine, he
didn't the Riddler fucking sniper, and I guess he did
arrest them, but who knows how that would have went right.
But that's where it's funny where you can watch those
two and if you watch the movies, you just can think, oh, well,
Batman took out the family, it was all him. But
really in the show, and again you don't need to
know happen, right because I think it's just gonna be
Penguin's gonna be running that operation. So that's why again,
I think Christine's done so good. I almost wonder after
the fact if they would have been like, oh, like
maybe maybe let's not let's let's keep her around. But
I think they probably designed the show for her to
to her to eat it unfortunately.
Speaker 4: You know, yeah, I would agree with that.
Speaker 1: Well anything with new young Carmine there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was surprising.
Speaker 5: Uh when when the when he first appears on screen,
I was like, oh ship, we got uh, oh my god,
John Carter, John Carter, John Carter, John John Turtuou there
we go. I was like, we got him back. I'm like, hell, yeah,
this is exciting. I love that actor, especially in that role.
And then like it just kind of zooms in close
from like that is not the same guy.
Speaker 4: There's no way the same guy.
Speaker 1: And they tried, I guess, but it was scheduling issues.
So they got Mark Sean and said, who like has
like a good enough like profile that looks like he
like got you there, right, so.
Speaker 4: Oh for sure.
Speaker 5: Like they talk very differently though, So that was like
the biggest thing for me to kind of get around.
Speaker 4: I could accept it.
Speaker 1: Get drugs and stuff. They'll change your voice, right, you know.
Speaker 5: That's a good point a lot of drops as yeah, change.
Speaker 1: His voice everything, but changes his voice.
Speaker 5: But I thought he was fantastic, Like even even though
I thought it felt different than that version, like it
still was a very imposing character. And I liked the
moment that he had, like the nice moment between him
and Sophia, And you can really see like from Sophia's perspective,
like just her admiration and love for her father there
and then and then like that quickly turns when she
brings up her mom and he's just like, you know,
this upsets me every time you bring this up. It's like,
oh yeah, yeah, this is like that's her fucking mom
that she's been like carry this drama with that, you
cause with your own hands. So right away it was
just like a total villain switch. Like I knew he
was a villain obviously, but like in that moment, it's like, oh, okay, no,
he's a villain, even though.
Speaker 1: There's still layers to it, right, Like I didn't think
in the when we watched The Batman, this guy shipped
his daughter off Arkham. That to me an even lower
level of a villain. It's like there's villain, there's a
criminal villain, and there's like he's up there with fucking
like he's not destroying the city, but like like he
literally was twenty four hours gonna get for the whole business.
He was gonna hand it off to her, and then
to be like just even a mere conversation about it,
like now you're gonna arkham Sorry, it's like fuck yeah.
Speaker 5: It's like like with his own hands strangling the life
out of all these women. It's just like, oh my god,
that it's like serial killer fucked up. So yeah, it
was really interesting to just see that dynamic. We already
kind of just talked about the shocking ramp up. I
think to send Sophia away, I feel like for me
that was like a little jarring, But again it's just like, wow,
this character is that fucked up. Like I think from
the scene that we had between Sophia Alberto and him,
I'm like, there's no way that he would that he
would do that, And then when it actually happened, it
seemed like a bit of a jump, but it's also
like wow, that really just goes to show how much
of a piece of shit he is. So I did
like that for the overall just health of the story
and yeah, I really really really liked the moment too.
How like see all the app what are they called
Affi David's, Avid David's Affi David's.
Speaker 4: Is it like an f do you know John Carter
on affidavids.
Speaker 5: There you go, just like that realization when she's just like, no,
just talk to my family like everybody, like we'll just
be able to talk this out. And then you see
like all these like professionally written like claims that you're out.
Speaker 1: Ready to go mind, yeah exactly, and it's just.
Speaker 5: Like betrayed by everyone that you thought you loved. And
for her perspective, it just like it just shatters the whole,
I guess false narrative of what she thought her family
was because she grows up in that environment. I I
love the secrets between her and Alberto in the flashback
when he's like going to the Iceberg Lounge and she's
starting to ask him some questions about her father and
it's just like, man, like why are you asking these questions?
Like we have a good life, like just just go
with it, and she's like, Okay, yeah, you're right, Like
I I know deep down my dad's a good guy,
which is obviously a lie, but it just goes to
show like how much when you grow up in that environment,
like your whole perspective is just twisted and tweaked and
you don't really understand how the world works.
Speaker 2: So I like it.
Speaker 5: We kind of got to see that whole realization from Sophie,
even though if you know how she got it was
six months plus ten years of just pure like literal
torture in this mental assignment of just constantly getting gaslighted,
and like, I suppose she's not more fucked up after.
Speaker 4: The ten years. Honestly, if that was her daily routine
for just I think we're.
Speaker 1: Gonna get there. I think she's gonna I think she's
gonna snap again and something's gonna happen, like if oz
Pole's won on her, And I think you're gonna see
Sophia fucker. Like she killed her old family, but it
was a very like, you know, kind of not nice way,
but like they all would have died in their sleep,
right It wasn't. She didn't take a fucking chainsaw like
went after them. But still it's like she still killed
her her family, But I feel like it's there after
what she did. Magpie right, she just smashed her face
in on the cement of the steel table. So that's
what it's like, like or like fucking we've said it
before her finger, like maybe she fucking goes to town
on Vic. She met Vic, right, she knows, like that
could be the thing of now we really get to
see Vic was his driver. And there's two ways they
could do it. They could make it like Vic turns
on Penguins. That's the circle moment of the same way
Penguin kind of turned on Sophia.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 1: It could be something like that, like the drive or
someone trusts like even Sofia, which was funny because the
whole episode they painted her to be good, but the
one time Penguin tries to give her some advice, she's like,
shut up, you're my fucking driver, And I was like, whoa.
So that's again it's almost like your dad, where she shows, Okay,
she is maybe a better person, but some of that's
still in there because she didn't have to go to town.
Os literally said I'm just trying to help you out.
And I almost wonder if she didn't shit on him,
if he wouldn't have went to her dad, because I
felt like she did that or no, that was after
the fact, right, he said, I was just trying to
help you out. So he was going he was brown
nosing no matter what. But still like she just snapped
at him, and that felt like the Sophia of now
and what I was gonna say, Kirky, when you're talking
about Alberto saying like, oh, we got a good life.
That's why I still think the family was not no
known to be criminals, because's where it's like, hey, just
don't even speak into existence, where if you look at
Alberto ten years later, he's like, I can't wait to
do that. Like That's why I think he's also different
now too, because he's had ten years old his sister.
He probably just more doing drugs, all this stuff. And
that's where now I think he's it's much more okay,
everyone knows what we do now where criminals whatever we're
then it's like, yeah, let's try to keep we're trying
to be I can't remember what they called him the business.
Maybe it's straight, I don't know, but it's something like
that where it's like, yeah, you're trying to make it
seem like you're something, and like, look, Gust, I'm breaking bad. Right,
all his money comes from lost Polos, but it's like, no,
like where it's coming from is not lost Polos.
Speaker 5: It's cream cut though, like it appears that he's all
professional business man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so and that's where again i'm, you know, semi mad.
Carmine is already dead because that's the other thing we
learned too that so, yeah, she's not the hangman. The
hangman's literally Carmine. And how did Selena's dad or what
mom died too? By strangling? So this dude just sucking
loves strangling people. That was his fucking gimmick. Man, He
just loved to like whether it was a noose, whether
it's his hands, that was his gimmick, was just a
strangle life out of people. So that ties it again
that like I wish they would be because now it's
like their moms were killed the same way her and
Selena's right strangled by the dad. Both got scratched and everything,
and that I love that scene where they're playing hide
and seek. The little girl finds his mom and he's like, oh,
you can't see that. He brings her up to like
hide her, but then when he just as glasses you
can see, like his hands bloody and everything, and that's okay,
why the fuck is your hand? And then she's starting
to remember that, so it's like, oh man, it's again,
just good. So many layers to all these scenes and
uh yeah, it's good stuff. But let's take an ad
break before we continue. We'll be right back and we're back.
So yeah, let's talk about actual Arkham where we get
in there. I loved this now. I think on a
theatrical budget, I would want Arkham to look like a
little more like Ratty, like when they're having lunch and everything,
it just looks like a prison. I hope if we
go back, like to me, what Riddler and Joker were
were is very like gross and maybe I guess this
could be like it's ten years ago, right, so maybe
it did look better. I hope if we see Arkham
again it just looks more. I want to look like
a haunted Manchip pretty much, right. I want to be
like a place where they don't get lots of funding,
they don't got cleaners, you're just throwing crazy people. But
I love that the whole shower down everything, they're fucking
spreading her legs, checking for stuff. Just brutal, but I
love when they put her to bed and all the
lights go out and it's just like screaming and laughter.
That's what I want Arkham Asylum to be of, just
like it's a fucking madhouse. You got in Magpie, like
hi hello, and her like eyes peeping through the whole,
like it felt like and Batman had that too, but
this again felt like a horror movie. It had those
scenes where it was like, this is messed up. So
I don't know if it'll happen, and then the trilogies,
but I hope we especially maybe if we go back
there at Barry and I want that feel like this
place is it is you know, it's for the mentally ill,
but it's more just an insane asylum. And those like
whether it's you know, your cryptoclues tailor or we watch
on Solved Mysteries, like those things where it's like, oh yeah,
this place is haunted because like all this weird shit
went on. It's like that's what Arkham should be. So
I loved the vibe it. I love that the doctors
are all fun weirdos or giving her a fork to
attack that lady like that to me is what Arkham
as Arkham should be it is not your local hospital,
like mess up stuff that's happening there. Again, I was
hoping the older guy was gonna be Hugo. Strange she wasn't.
I just especially with this this this facility being the
way it is.
Speaker 5: But uh yeah, it wasn't right because it sets it
up later on down the road because he wouldn't because
even when she's talking to the air quote good therapist
at the Jilian Rush there, yeah, she's like, well, it
was this doctor, and then after him it was that doctor,
then after him it was that doctor, like the new
leaders of Arkham. So especially if it was a ten
year gap, like I am at least happy that we're
saving Hugo for a potential patent.
Speaker 1: I hope, I hope, yeah, because I don't think Julian's
making it out either. He's just fucking hard anytime Sofia's around,
My god, he's he's just he can't think, he has
no faculties. I was really worried when she woke up
from her dream sequence that was happening in Arkha'm like,
oh fuck, why is he? Like why is she waking
up to this guy over? But then I understood the
he saved her, but like she's still using them right,
like she didn't. Like she kind of called him pathetic
and said like, oh, you're trying to make good foot
you did, but she I thought from what she was
gonna kill him in that house, I thought, all he's done,
but no she didn't. So like she's still like keeping
him around for what I don't know yet, and that's
why I don't know. I'm but the Arkham stuff for me,
Like I said, then, I wanted to be a look
a little more ratted ten out of ten aura wise
for me and the good stuff meg Bie, poor mag
Bide trying to make a friend and maybe the wrong
time to say, oh, we're gonna be best friends now,
but uh that was fun enough. So No, but I
liked the Arkham stuff. And I hope we, one way
or another in this verse return there because we've not
gone enough of it. And Batman Live Action.
Speaker 5: Really you know, yeah, these stories of like whether it's
like twelve Monkeys or like one flew over the Cucko's Nest,
I feel like those it's like almost like like the
scariest version of horror for me is like a non
psycle person being like trapped in a psycho asylum and
it's just no one's gonna believe you because everybody's saying
same thing, and like, yes.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 5: I I also just like the directing style of her
going through all these things in arc of like it's
just it was terrifying and like, like what do.
Speaker 4: You do in that in that situation? He was just living,
She's innocent.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent right, Like it's one hundred
percent shift in less than twenty four hours for her,
and yeah, it was definitely, uh, just raw, Like the
moments when she first gets there, to strip her down
like a fucking animal and just hose her. Imagine that
water is like an ice bath too, just like the
fire hose that they're doing.
Speaker 1: And then it's like Charleston Hessen planing the apes. It's
like that madouse. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like she's literally in the mouth house and then
she gets like just beaten on in the cafeteria with
that one cycle.
Speaker 1: Lady, that's just un she killed all those women and
you're like, just fuck, shut up.
Speaker 5: I feel like she's getting like physically abused, but like
the mental toll that she's receiving every single day for
like like six months plus ten years is just that's
where like by the end of them, like how is
her mind even like able to formulate a sentence. I
feel she would be fractured like Magpie by that by
the end of that.
Speaker 1: But I guess she had to play cool to try
to hopefully get out right because if again, if they
when it was uncrowded, they were let out the people
that were the most normal or sane, right, like you're
not letting out Barry's joker because like honestly fucked up guy,
you're not gonna let out the Riddler. But it's like
a Sophia fuck like she's skilliculed people. But then like yeah, whatever,
like you know, she's hopefully maybe I don't know, I'll say,
I don't think we'll get more flashbacks. But that must
have been part of the mindset, is well, you gotta
be cool a little bit if you want to try
and get out of her maybe one day, you know.
Speaker 5: And I feel like that's another thing that was just
so like gut wrenching when it happened, was like she's
trying to just keep mentally like there for six months
because that's when she's having a trial and then she can,
you know, just prove that she's innocent, and like I
feel like, especially when she meets Alberto, like at the end,
his own reaction to seeing her is just like disc
like she's he's just shocked of like everything that she
must have gone through for her to look this way,
and she's like holding on by a thread, like all right,
this trial is going on. I think I can formulate
a sentence to make it seem like I'm not insane,
and then just getting like the reality of like ten
more years and she's just like she cracks. She's giggling
almost like the joker is like it's and how can
you not be Like it's just it's it's such a
wild thing for someone to go through. And definitely felt
for her like throughout this whole episode, and it makes
sense by the end why she would want to murder
the whole family, And I'm totally in supportive her, like
these these assholes just totally fucked her over. So yeah, no,
I absolutely love this episode and just getting like a
glimpse into Arkham, It's like I want more of this,
but it's also so disturbances, like I don't think I
could handle like a full season of like an Arkham
show or something like. It's like outlast level of like
the the Murkoff, you know, Asylum indus, Like it's just
that level of fucked upness. I'm sure there's some crazy
stuff going on in the basement of our Coham And
uh yeah, they did a really good job at just
kind of showcasing it and making it seem like it's
not a nice place that you'd want to be. And
I will say, I feel like, what was I gonna say,
Oh quickly before I forget, because I'm meant to bring
this up earlier. I uh, just just getting back to
me really liking the placement of this episode. I like
that we got all the like the meaning of the
family earlier on in the season, and then by the
time we get to this episode and we see all
the affidavids and it's like, holy shit, Like all those
people that you know were like air quote friendly with Sophia,
like in the early portion of the episodes, like they
just completely line to her face and just like they're
all they're all two face, like like they're all just
grimy criminals at the end of the day, and no
loyalty like at all, Like even Johnny right, like he's
fucking that one guy's wife, like like everyone is probably
fucking each other over in.
Speaker 4: That in that house. So I just liked how that
was kind of revealed in this episode.
Speaker 5: But the one kind of hold back I guess I
had is like for me, and it's not fully answered yet,
so I'll try and I don't know, hold off some
of my minor criticisms with it. But I was kind
of hoping that the other doctor was also just like
a total like evil character as well, like like her
therapist that kind of like I don't know, we didn't
see how it exactly happened, but he says that he
helped Alberto like get her out of our com Part
of me is like I kind of just don't want
this guy that's like, you know, like going up to
the doctors, like maybe she's maybe she's innocent, like maybe not,
Like I feel I would have found it just so
much more fucked up if like she has no help
at all, and these people like these doctors are these
evil doctors that are there to just gaslighter and like
just make her go crazy.
Speaker 4: Like I feel like I would have preferred that.
Speaker 5: Because I don't know that at least of at least
right now, because I don't fully know what's going on
with that therapist guy, and I feel like this angle
of him like trying to be the good guy and
help her out, like I'm just not really for it.
Speaker 4: But who knows. We more hopefully will be revealed in
a future episode.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I say hopefully because like a lot of
those members of her family are dead, he could have
screen time with her right to flesh that out, like
she may be around, So that's what I'm kind of
hoping because yeah, I just I guess a good guy.
But like I said, it's all just feel like, Okay,
he kind of has a hot spur, but it's okay,
what else, Like why do I why do I care?
Right then, I guess there's one nice person in Gotham.
But even then she's like, well you did a lot
of shady stuff too, so and.
Speaker 5: That's why I think I was worried, because I thought
I was like one hundred percent convince she was gonna
kill him right at the end of Yeah, It's like
like why do we even do this?
Speaker 4: Why do we have this character?
Speaker 5: It's like, I'm not really a bad guy, like I
was looking out for you, even though I was still
like torturing you, because I feel like when they first
meet and he's like interviewing her for the first time,
it's like pretty obvious that at least how it seemed
to me that he was just twisting her words and
literally like, oh so you're paranoid, right, write that down
that she's like going insane, and it's just like, oh
my god, this is such a like a one way battle,
like there's no way that she can win out of
this because this evil doctor is just twisting her words
and that's the only one that matters. And then just
revealed that he's like actually not a bad guy. It's like, so,
then why the fuck was he doing that? Like he's
like mind gaming here instead of just having normal conversations.
Speaker 1: So what you do at Arkham? That's their orientation?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it is so fair enough.
Speaker 5: I just didn't love what they were wanting to do
with that character. But like I said, I'll hopefully hold
off because I'm expecting us to get more scenes with him.
Speaker 1: You didn't die in this episode, so yeah, because like
he asked me around for some reason, there's no like then,
like I said, then just kill him. He's gonna kill Vic,
He's gonna he's gonna kill Penguin. He is either gonna
do like the Batman the Robin thing from Knowl and
You're like, you should use a real name. Hugo sounds nice,
and he's like, thanks, go.
Speaker 2: Back on it.
Speaker 3: Uh. It just it bothers me because I'm sure Bruce
is bothered to when you know, you do such a
good job. And then the city the government's like, all right,
let's start mass releasing all these fucking criminals out of
out of Arkham.
Speaker 2: Not black eatee, fucking Arkham. So that's kind of shitty.
But yeah, I think that.
Speaker 3: Everything that going on with with her just being locked
up in there and just the setting and all that,
it's just it's not even the same with the Joker
and like not spoiling but Felia, do you get Arkham.
But it's very very different, right, It's it feels kind
of like just a sen sanitarium. And I don't, like,
I say, just a regular a regular old sanitarium. This one,
as you said, Kirklin, it feels like that Murkough, like
fucking brutal. You don't want to be in here. It's
terrible and the moment she started freaking. Sophia started freaking
out about it. Then I was freaking out and thinking, fuck,
I don't want to go here. I don't want to go.
Don't don't make me go.
Speaker 2: But I I hope that we do get a little
bit more of this representation.
Speaker 3: I'd love it to see. This would be so cool
if somehow Batman, you know, he's walking into like a
police joint, but I'd love to see him somehow get
lured in to hear if you have some sitting where
he has to get in here and then the cells open,
like you know, like Watchman style where you get them
trapped in the prison. I would love to see something
like that here where they are like Bruce caught.
Speaker 1: There's a there's a massive hit video game to you
you could play called Batman and they cover that whole
four line. But no, that that for me is a
dream for someoney like I would love it, even if
it's not passing, if it's not James Gundc. If they're like, hey,
we're gonna do an else world, it's just gonna be
about one night eight. We're gonna cast the guy as Batman.
He gets locked in Arkham go like you don't gotta
you don't gotta adapt the video game one for one,
but pretty much that video game like that, or there's
an Arkham sign book like yeah, I think there's tons
of especially released that around spooky season. Make it like
a haunted like the House type of movie. Like I
think there's buckets of money they're missing that they've not
done a Batman Arkham assigm move yet very easy. Put
them in there, get a bu cast, a bunch of
fucking up and comers as villains go, you know.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: It's by Pitch James, if you're listening, if you're somewhere,
that's the key for studios, Pitch it's just give us,
he us forty million, We're good to go. You know.
Let's see, so that happened. Yeah, she got out of there.
We talked about her killing the family, great speech, you know,
cut off the uncle, you know, rude, but she didn't
have any time for that. Then. Yeah, she took a
little girl, so didn't want to kill her. Killed them all,
left Johnny alive. Who I guess. I'm guessing he must
have some stuff to do with like bank rolling that,
Like there has to be because that's the only thing
I thought, like, how could she pull us all off there?
All dad doesn't make sense?
Speaker 2: Should pinned on him? Is that another potential route?
Speaker 1: I guess, Well, why couldn't you just say it's like
the Maroni's right, the same way That's what they did
the her brother, right, they just said, oh, yeah, the
Maronie's killed Alberto and until now she knows what's Penguin
but for because that ring went missing, right, So they
just like, okay, So I think you could just do
that again. You could pin on Johnny, but I don't know.
I think he's there for other reasons. But yeah, I'm
very excited to see what we get next week with Sofia.
Maybe with some new power, Penguin might be powerless, Like
I don't know, I really don't know what his next
step is with no Maroni, Yeah, hiding out there, I
don't know. But I'm very curious see what him and
Dick get up to next week because I feel like
this is the lowest he's been, even lower than a driver,
at least a driver. They're not trying to fucking kill you,
but now you're enemy number one.
Speaker 5: So it is interesting because like a lot of the
the power of the Falcones is definitely shaken. I feel
like Penguin is just gonna like flee to the what
the hell they called the Moron there we go?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Like although.
Speaker 5: Naudia I think that was her name, the one lady
that had him dead to rights and was just airing
all of his dirty laundry to Sofia there. I feel
like I feel like there's still some I don't know,
something that he can kind of like just win them
over on or like something those lines, because he doesn't
really have any other allies, and like, I don't think
he's just gonna be on his own and Sophia with
her kind of just kidnapping Johnny, whatever the hell's gonna
come out of that. I definitely don't think he's gonna
find much solace in the the Falcone family. I keep
mixing up the Maroney's and the Falcones and my name
now these mafia names.
Speaker 4: But yeah, so.
Speaker 5: Part of me thinks that like he still wants the Carmine.
Fuck I'm gonna dosing his first name now, the Falcone
just like Empire, like he still had like wants his
his his uh, his little penguin toes around that. But
I don't know, it's it's gonna be tough, especially with
Sophia still kicking, because even if he gets rid of her,
like what like what is still really around for the Falcones,
Like do they have henchmen that.
Speaker 4: Just don't have like bosses to listen to?
Speaker 5: Like, like how much of the actual infrastructre of that
moth and family is effective now? Like is this just
the end of the Falcones in general? Like they're gonna
have no leadership? Is everyone just gonna kind of get
absorbed in the Maronis or the Triads or whatever other families.
Speaker 1: Or so that's why I wonder if he takes out
the Falcones and the Maroni somehow, and then that's how
he kind of gets them both. It's like, well, maybe
having one might be not enough, but if he gets two,
then it's a lot of coverage, a lot of clients,
a lot of you know, club.
Speaker 3: The Maronis said that they took their like Sophia's whole
lap that she was working on, which is a setback
because if they didn't take that, I was thinking, Okay,
then Oz could just take over the relationship with the
with the Triads, right, and that would be a huge
boost because then he has Sofia's operation everything like that,
and has the connections that he arranged with them, So that.
Speaker 2: Would be pretty big. Uh, But I don't know what
he has.
Speaker 3: It's he has to have something up asleep, because when
he was leaving when the last episode was VIC, he's.
Speaker 1: Like, we're in the ship now VIC.
Speaker 2: WHOA.
Speaker 3: He's like, you're trying to high so he obviously it
might have been preemptive his hands being shown to Sofia
and to the Maroni's. But I think he's got something
lined up for sure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think so. I think Penguin's working on
his feet. No, I think he's gonna go to plans
Z right now and figure out. I think he's gonna
figure it out. He's gonna find one way. As we've
seen he's he's he's a squirrelly motherfucker. But uh, yeah,
anything else in this episode.
Speaker 5: I'm curious to see going forward, if we get like
Penguin showing like any regret for things that he's done,
like over this whole situation, like how it could have
been easier or better if he had just done I
don't know x y Z.
Speaker 2: I thought he did last week, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Fox Sophia again, I think he does. But until then,
if his life's on the line, it's like, no, that's gone,
you know. He just cast that to the side.
Speaker 4: So yeah, so I'm I'm not very hopeful about it,
but we'll see.
Speaker 2: Vic.
Speaker 5: I think would be the one kind of person that
he has soul sin. But I'm getting worried for Mama
Mama Penguin now after after this episode, I think she's it's.
Speaker 1: Over for her.
Speaker 5: Sophia's gonna be up in the ceiling of her bedroom
next episode.
Speaker 4: It's over for you.
Speaker 1: And for mom. His dementia is gonna be like really
not knowing what's going on.
Speaker 2: But that is a good thing that Oz has on her.
Speaker 3: At least he told Sophia that, you know, his mom
died a while back, right, So unless she somehow Mama
Penguin just remembers, like.
Speaker 2: Oh, Oz is downtown, like I'll go down down and
like Oz.
Speaker 1: Sophia, I've always said that, I think there's a part
of her that knows, or she's at least gonna find out.
Maybe that's what Julian's gonna do. Maybe he's gonna go
do some sloop and and he's gonna I could see him,
Julian Rush, that's the therapist guy that I could see him,
like he's on the back foot and it's like, well
find me something to what oz, especially because she has
like a mental condition. Maybe at one point got I
was like backdoor, got some medicine or something right or
even like some sort of oh sultant and then put
on Arkham for a decade. But no, like I think
that could be Julian's maybe play in this that he
finds Penguin's mom and that's and that will be the
end of Julian.
Speaker 3: But and I mean she does have that undercover cop
right in her back pocket. Totally forgot about that, so
that might be the job ed guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, both of them. Aaron says, do you
guys think Sofia might end up back in Arkman the
end of this season? I would love that. That's my like,
that's my pro want the most as Penguin Wins has
the crime families, but Sophia's there. But it's just tough
because unless I don't know, like of course I don't
know the plans, right, We've got no villains announced, but
I don't see her being in the Batman two North
three because I think the three is gonna probably be
Jokers movie. I think they're gonna lead up to him,
and I think that, well, I don't think you're getting
a Penguin season two, so I think it's probably just
easier to kill her off. I guess you could have
her in there and still never bring her back as well. Right,
But to me, if you keep her alive, especially after
this performance, I think people will will almost be expecting
her to come back, and who knows, maybe they kept
her alive, like, hey, let's see, because if people are
luke warm on her, you can just say, well, she's
Arkham the same way as like, technically, I know it's
different because he fled your past, but that's the end
of Joker story in the Dark Knight series, right as well,
he went to prison and he never got out again. Right,
So if they don't care about her, it's like, well, okay,
Sophia's locked up there and Penguin won, and maybe it's like, well,
then if people do like her, we can bust her out.
But again, you got a member too. Lots of people
are watching the Penguin, but there's still like a difference
of people watching the Penguin versus the movie. Right, Like,
I don't know anybody right now in my personal life
that's watching the ping that saw the Batman. My in
law is my mom, sister, even Amy who wants to.
She's been busy, but it's like, oh, yeah, I'll get
to eventually.
Speaker 2: There's a difference to watch Penguin but haven't watched them.
Speaker 1: No other way around that, like watched Batman, but it's like,
oh there's Penguin. Oh yeah, cool, But it's like that's
the same thing. They won't have the same hype, like, oh,
Sophia's coming back, So I still am thinking she's dead,
but you guys think there's any chance she ends up
inn ar.
Speaker 3: I'm on the kind of the opposite because even at
Thanksgeping dinner with Madison's like and no cool, Like they're like, oh,
your podcast this weekend, like yeah, like Stani like yeah,
closing the windows but yeah, I said, like, oh, we're
reviewing Penguin, Like oh yeah, we're really enjoying that.
Speaker 2: I'm like really okay, I like I'm loving it too.
Speaker 3: I didn't think that as many people were actually engaging
in it, And I'd be curious to see what the
numbers are if they actually, like drop the numbers of
the show, see what they turn out in comparison to
like a Disney plus Marvel show, because I think this is.
Speaker 1: Stuff it's doing like it seems it seems to be
bouncing back between on like the first three to five days.
It's like a one point five to one point. It's
always been there, but that's just the first five days, right,
things will pick up. I could see it being a
show that people. It'll get recommended a lot on HBO
and crave. When you when The Batman two is coming out,
imagine have you get ready for the Batman? You know?
But Jay used to think Sophia has a chance to
make it all live.
Speaker 3: He said that, I think I think that they're oh,
she she's really like the only last powerhouse of the
Falcone family, and I think that for that reason, you
need to keep her alive.
Speaker 2: But I think it.
Speaker 3: Would just be bittersweet if you have Oz getting her
sent back to Arkham again.
Speaker 2: Something like that.
Speaker 3: That was just really cementum as just being a downright
asshole and not him not having a regret sending her
back there, So I think I think that would be
a that would be the way to go about it again,
And I'm saying that too from a place where, like
I said earlier, I want to see Selena Kyle and
her have that that face to face, which probably will
not happen, but maybe you know it can remain hopeful.
Speaker 1: That's the only thing I would hope is. I don't
think it would be a Penguin season two, but my
dream is that out of I know there's been the
Arkham Show, the Cop show rumored out of all and not,
there's been big rumors. But that's where you could bring
her back, is if they did Selena Show and then
there's something there you could even for an episode, so
that that would be my hope. I'm still hoping, but
I think she's dead Kirklin and it's off. What do
you think is soundless? If you at the beginning, we
talked about at the beginning, but now for an hour discussion,
have you changed.
Speaker 5: No, I'm pretty much the same. I think, no matter why,
it's not gonna end well for her. She'll either die or,
like even worse than that, get sent back to Arkham
for another ten years, and I'd be terrified for Oz
if she eventually gets out again, because I feel like
she would just be that like just multiplied, Like her
insane level of vengeance should probably be put in Batman
to shame with the level of vengeance she would have
after that event. So yeah, don't I don't think it's
gonna end well for her, And I kind of am
hoping that she gets dismantled in a way that like
Oz really gets like the upper hand on her and
then it's just like revealed of like, Wow, this guy
actually is quite crafty and he did surpass or outlive
I guess, all of the falcones and just kind of
setting up his legacy going forward, because I imagine he's
still going to be a part of the Batman's stories
going forward, and just have him in a more powerful
role would say a lot for just the growth of
the character, because in this show already we've got to
see the just the driver version of Oz, and if
you take that jump ten years plus whatever the length
of time is going to be for his experience in Batman,
it's just like we really rose up and became like
a certain crime boss. I don't know what family is
going to be leading. I don't know if it's going
to be like a mixture of a bunch of different
families or whatnot. But for Sophia, no thumbs down. She's
not just not gonna she's not gonna.
Speaker 1: Make it out well and there we go. Well, next
week we start, we'll be in the back half of
the season. Should be an interesting time. Hopefully keeps up
this quality. But I don't think any of us are worried,
So thank you very much for listening. When we be
back next week, it'll not be boring by I'm supposed
to h at the end, last dream shit
Speaker 4: Wait for balloons.