Speaker 1: It's Maria's MutS and Stuff.
Speaker 2: What a great idea on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Maria's MutS and Stuff. And with me is
Speaker 1: the author of Running Free. It's Amy Cullen. So, Amy,
Speaker 1: thanks for chatting with me today. I'm excited to ask
Speaker 1: you a million questions.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having.
Speaker 1: Me absolutely so Okay, So you started out as a lawyer, okay,
Speaker 1: and then ultimately obviously Running Free is about your time
Speaker 1: and what you still do is taking care of horses
Speaker 1: on a dude ranch, which is really cool. What made
Speaker 1: you to decide to go from being a lawyer to
Speaker 1: doing well? I guess what was really in your heart?
Speaker 1: But what made you decide to actually pull the band
Speaker 1: aid off and do it?
Speaker 2: I don't think there's ever any one thing. I initially
Speaker 2: went to the ranch on vacation with one of my
Speaker 2: friends who I had ridden horses with growing up. And
Speaker 2: you know, I went to college, got my degree. I'd
Speaker 2: like toyed with the idea of like riding professionally at
Speaker 2: that point, but wasn't really sure. And I always figured
Speaker 2: I could get a law degree because it could always
Speaker 2: help guide with like business and legal decisions of horses.
Speaker 2: And if I want to do that as a profession.
Speaker 2: But very similar to many people, I'd graduated, passed the bar,
Speaker 2: and took the job that paid good money and kind
Speaker 2: of set my thought on a different path. And so
Speaker 2: when I was vacationing at the Sealy's U ranch, I
Speaker 2: just kind of had this moment where I was like,
Speaker 2: I think I want to take a break and be
Speaker 2: a wrangler. And I Maryland was barred DC Maryland at
Speaker 2: the time, and Maryland had reciprocity with Colorado. So when
Speaker 2: I was waving into the bar in Colorado, I basically
Speaker 2: quit my job, took a sabbatical. I kept my big
Speaker 2: toe in the whole time. But yeah, just went from
Speaker 2: making my six figure DC lawyer salary to ten dollars
Speaker 2: an hour.
Speaker 3: On a new branch.
Speaker 4: That's so yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: And I worked as a wrangler for about six months
Speaker 2: at that ten dollars an hour, and I just honestly
Speaker 2: the best six months.
Speaker 4: Of your life.
Speaker 3: That's what my entire career. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Sure.
Speaker 1: Well they always say to you know, do what you
Speaker 1: love and love what you do, And I mean, that's
Speaker 1: what you did, which is really cool, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like, I think a lot of people when
Speaker 1: they get out of school and they think, Okay, I
Speaker 1: have to do this, or they think this is the
Speaker 1: path I should take.
Speaker 4: And I know, I mean many people, even friends.
Speaker 1: Of mine, who are now looking at retirement, but they
Speaker 1: never really did that thing that they really wanted to do.
Speaker 1: So I think it's really awesome that you you had
Speaker 1: the guts and you did it and you're doing it still.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I've been at the ramps now almost thirteen years. And
Speaker 2: the thing that I just it was never that I plan.
Speaker 2: It just kind of organically happened, and I just let
Speaker 2: myself stay open that anything that might have, like any
Speaker 2: possibilities out there as opposed to you know, yeah, like
Speaker 2: I must be a lawyer because this is what I
Speaker 2: got my degree in and right, but all my student loans.
Speaker 1: Are in Yeah, no, of course, of course. But I
Speaker 1: just think I just think it's really cool. And obviously,
Speaker 1: you know, we'll talk about the book, of course, but
Speaker 1: som Emma is.
Speaker 4: At her name emm e Emma.
Speaker 1: You are emm Emmy, Okay, so Emmy in the book
Speaker 1: is really you correct?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, so, And the book Running Free is about
Speaker 1: the sea lazy U ranch in Colorado that actually back
Speaker 1: in October of twenty twenty, and it was it's kind
Speaker 1: of eerie to talk to you now because of the
Speaker 1: wildfires that were happening and saving over you know, saving
Speaker 1: two hundred horses from the wildfires, which is kind of
Speaker 1: eerie to me, as you know, I mean I read
Speaker 1: it before things started to happen, and then I realized,
Speaker 1: like we're talking now, and this is what people are
Speaker 1: going through in Los Angeles and you went through it,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's yeah, yeah, absolutely, so let's.
Speaker 4: Talk about that.
Speaker 1: I mean, because it's it's very you know, obviously your
Speaker 1: book is a true story, but it's very real, and
Speaker 1: just to read it and be thinking about because we're
Speaker 1: all seeing, you know, the animals and the horses and
Speaker 1: people who are affected by the wildfires.
Speaker 2: You know, after the fire hit our rand, it's called
Speaker 2: the East Troublesome Fire in October of twenty twenty, and
Speaker 2: being from the East coast, like I had no experience
Speaker 2: with wildfires. Sure I found you know, some old files
Speaker 2: in the bar and that was talked about like spray
Speaker 2: painting the horses, cutting the fence, pushing them towards the reservoir,
Speaker 2: but they were they were so dated it probably meant
Speaker 2: area has been you know, built up since those files
Speaker 2: were made. So yeah, what I when the fire hit us,
Speaker 2: Like what dawned on me was how not like ill
Speaker 2: prepared I was, and watching even what's going on in
Speaker 2: LA right now, I don't you can be as prepared
Speaker 2: as possible, But like, I think what I learned the
Speaker 2: most from the fire is that no matter what, you
Speaker 2: are going to have to rely on your neighbors and
Speaker 2: your community, right and all those around you to actually
Speaker 2: help you.
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, I'm sure. I mean, I'm sure.
Speaker 1: It's I mean, I can't imagine like living through it
Speaker 1: and you did. I mean, because you're right, like, you're
Speaker 1: so prepared. We're all prepared, we think we are for
Speaker 1: an emergency, but when you're actually in it, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, and you're amazing because you got through it
Speaker 1: and you had your wits about you and you saved
Speaker 1: all these horses.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but yes it was. But it was definitely a.
Speaker 2: Chaotic, emotional, terrifying per in my life. And after you know,
Speaker 2: all was well and we were able to return home
Speaker 2: with all the horses, that's when I basically started writing
Speaker 2: down everything that happened, because one thing I didn't want
Speaker 2: to lose was my like my memory of what would happened,
Speaker 2: so that I could basically help somebody in the future.
Speaker 2: But yeah, and but I but I guess that's the
Speaker 2: whole point is even though I want to help people,
Speaker 2: like the thing that I guess you need more than
Speaker 2: anybody is in anything as a network and like phone
Speaker 2: numbers and people to call when the emergency happens, because
Speaker 2: it is just it's so chaotic. You need to rely
Speaker 2: on other people.
Speaker 1: Sure, and as well as anyone who knows. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know a lot about horses, but I know
Speaker 1: more about dogs. But you know, horses to me are
Speaker 1: like bigger dogs. The fact that you can't be panicking
Speaker 1: because that will make the animal panic as well.
Speaker 4: Correct.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, like we had you know, we have over
Speaker 2: two hundred horses on our and we had to load
Speaker 2: them into various types of trailers and various types of
Speaker 2: the day at night, and you know, it's as like
Speaker 2: somebody that does horses professionally, like you need to stay calm.
Speaker 2: They pull off of your energy just like dogs. Like
Speaker 2: I have dogs as well, So it's it's very similar.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, they're like big dogs, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean that's what when I had my dog and
Speaker 1: we would see horses on the street, like police horses
Speaker 1: and be like, oh, look that's just a big dog.
Speaker 1: Don't worry, it's it's you know, it's but yeah, just
Speaker 1: as a side thing. So see Lazy U Ranch. I'm
Speaker 1: just fascinated by that name. Do you know where that
Speaker 1: name came from?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's been a Ceelasy Ranch has been a
Speaker 2: guest ranch since nineteen ninety. The original name of the
Speaker 2: ranch was called the f Flash Ranch, and they renamed it,
Speaker 2: I want to say in.
Speaker 3: The forties okay.
Speaker 2: And they came up with a letter C and it's
Speaker 2: like a lazy which is basically you laying on its side,
Speaker 2: because that was what the creek looked like from aerial,
Speaker 2: like an aerial viewpoint.
Speaker 3: It looked like a.
Speaker 2: Big sea and a lazy U.
Speaker 3: So that's how the ranch got its name.
Speaker 4: Got it okay?
Speaker 1: And the ranch was damaged correct back in the fire
Speaker 1: in twenty two. Yeah, so what was how much of
Speaker 1: that damage was done by the fires?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So we lost our historic barn that was a big
Speaker 2: bomber charm. We lost a guest cabin. We lost two
Speaker 2: staff housing units, we lost eight member homes that are
Speaker 2: on the property, We lost all of our hay or
Speaker 2: hay shed, and we lost one thing you don't think
Speaker 2: about is all your fencing. You know, we're about eighty
Speaker 2: five hundred acre ranch and we have fencing all over
Speaker 2: the ranch to move the horses and keep the horses,
Speaker 2: and a lot of our fencing burned, even though it
Speaker 2: wasn't a structure to you know, obviously get all that
Speaker 2: fencing back. It's not easy.
Speaker 4: Sure, of course, I'm sure. I'm sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And since then, I mean now it's what it's four years,
Speaker 1: four plus years later year, yeahs have everything like have
Speaker 1: structure has been rebuilt, replaced or is it still in process?
Speaker 3: It's still processed.
Speaker 2: We just started building the guest cabin and the barn.
Speaker 2: We have like a temporary tent that we've been working
Speaker 2: out of and we don't have plans currently to rebuild
Speaker 2: the barn, but I imagine in the next couple of
Speaker 2: years we'll kind of get to work on that. We've
Speaker 2: redone a lot of the fencing, we've done the hayshiad.
Speaker 2: I'd say about half the member homes that burned have
Speaker 2: been replaced, and why we didn't replace the staff housing
Speaker 2: units that burned on ranch. We've found other staff housing
Speaker 2: units in town, so to slow process. And the land,
Speaker 2: I mean, living and working here, you still see, like
Speaker 2: it's still very obvious we had a big fire because
Speaker 2: so many of the trees are burned. But yeah, but
Speaker 2: one thing that's cool that started to happen more so
Speaker 2: in the last two years, I would say, is the
Speaker 2: amount of aspen groves that are going up where so
Speaker 2: you can kind of see the soil and the flowers
Speaker 2: and the trees. So there's a lot of regrowth. It's
Speaker 2: just gonna take years.
Speaker 1: Sure, but that's great though. At least it's starting. You know,
Speaker 1: like that has to make you feel so good. And
Speaker 1: when you start to see some of.
Speaker 2: That, oh yeah, absolutely. The spring, so twenty twenty one,
Speaker 2: the spring after the fire, we had this like beautiful
Speaker 2: fire weed that came up in every area that was burned,
Speaker 2: and it's this big, bright orange, this red flower, and
Speaker 2: so everything that had burned in October that following spring,
Speaker 2: like everything was like just floral and beautiful, where like
Speaker 2: the soil had been burned really bad. So that was
Speaker 2: pretty incredible to see, right.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I mean nature is incredible, you know, and
Speaker 1: that's like a perfect example.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I thought of you because I and I'm
Speaker 1: sure you saw this too with all the different you know,
Speaker 1: videos or whatever we're seeing from Los Angeles, and you
Speaker 1: can tell me this I saw and I guess it
Speaker 1: went viral and it was someone who was rescuing. It
Speaker 1: was a video of someone who was rescuing a horse
Speaker 1: and the horse turned around and went back because there
Speaker 1: were two of its horse friends two other horses and
Speaker 1: kind of like corraled them, and then the other horses
Speaker 1: like saw that horse, and then the three of them
Speaker 1: trotted towards the person who was helping. Is that like
Speaker 1: a common horse behavior, like almost like a pack mentality?
Speaker 4: Is that correct?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, I actually saw that video. Like you know,
Speaker 2: horses that we have a big herd of horses, and
Speaker 2: horses have that herd mentality, and there's all different hierarchies
Speaker 2: and lead mares.
Speaker 3: But yeah, they're very attached.
Speaker 2: So it wouldn't It would very similar things happened here,
Speaker 2: Like when horses got separated from their friends, you know,
Speaker 2: they'll call and scream to each other, but yeah, they'll
Speaker 2: absolutely go back to try to round up their friends
Speaker 2: if that's if they're not with them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, that's so cool. I mean, that's so yeah.
Speaker 4: I just I mean that's what I thought, and I
Speaker 4: was like, oh, that's just so so cool.
Speaker 1: That's why we love these animals so much, you know
Speaker 1: so much. So speaking of horses, so for someone who
Speaker 1: is listening, what is something that from your vast knowledge
Speaker 1: of horses? And maybe it's more than one thing, but
Speaker 1: what's one thing that probably most people don't know about
Speaker 1: horses or is there one thing that I mean, I
Speaker 1: mean there might not be I know, I don't mean
Speaker 1: to put you on the spot, but something I don't.
Speaker 4: Know, and maybe they might not be because you know,
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Well, no, there's so many things. I mean, I don't
Speaker 2: know how many much people know about.
Speaker 3: Horses or not.
Speaker 2: But like the one thing I always try to say
Speaker 2: to people that don't work or ride, you know, for
Speaker 2: fun or for a living, is that you know, they're
Speaker 2: so intuitive and they can read your emotions and they
Speaker 2: can they're an animal that feels things versus so they
Speaker 2: feel your energy, they feel your emotions. So if you're
Speaker 2: having a bad day, you're gonna have a bad interaction
Speaker 2: with a horse if you're letting that kind of carry
Speaker 2: you through. So it's one of those things they always
Speaker 2: say horses are a mirror to your soul, and it's
Speaker 2: a great way of kind of being able to check
Speaker 2: yourself and be like, even though I'm having a bad day,
Speaker 2: I can't let my energy interfere with my communication with
Speaker 2: a horse. So horses, I would say, the one thing
Speaker 2: that I've gotten really good at through my career and
Speaker 2: through my life of having horses is compartmentalizing even though
Speaker 2: you know the fire might be happening, a boyfriend would
Speaker 2: have broken up with me whatever, whatever I or is like,
Speaker 2: if you keep that at the forefront of what you're doing,
Speaker 2: that they will pick up on it.
Speaker 3: Well they don't want to be.
Speaker 1: Around you then sure, and people don't want to be either, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think it translates a lot over to
Speaker 2: your interactions with humans and leadership on how to be
Speaker 2: the best person you can be in a moment. And
Speaker 2: that's the other thing. Like courses, it's all they live.
Speaker 3: In a moment. They don't remember and they don't know
Speaker 3: what's coming.
Speaker 2: So in that moment they're just trying to trust and
Speaker 2: communicate with you. So it's just I think the biggest
Speaker 2: thing that I've gotten out of courses is just I've
Speaker 2: really learned how to be present rather than try to
Speaker 2: worry about the future, dwell on maybe what has happened.
Speaker 4: Right. Oh no, that's great. That's like so I felt back,
Speaker 4: I's putting you on the spot.
Speaker 1: But that's like a that's like a bonus what you
Speaker 1: just said.
Speaker 4: That's really cool.
Speaker 1: No, thank you for sharing that, because I mean for
Speaker 1: people who don't really know, I think that's really it's
Speaker 1: a very good tip, especially if someone's like listening and said, oh,
Speaker 1: you know what, always wanted to go ride a horse,
Speaker 1: so maybe I will. You just gave them like a
Speaker 1: pearl of wisdom to bring with them. So that so thanks,
Speaker 1: that's perfect. Yeah, perfect.
Speaker 4: So Running Free is the book? Do you have?
Speaker 1: Were there things in the book that you left out
Speaker 1: that could be a sequel or everything you have in
Speaker 1: Running Free?
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I don't know if I would
Speaker 2: write a sequel, but it was my first book. Oh,
Speaker 2: I mean, now looking back on it, you know I
Speaker 2: wish I had I wish I'd done this.
Speaker 3: Differently, But no, it started out as.
Speaker 2: A memoir, which I found very difficult to write. I
Speaker 2: just really struggled with like writing about myself and about
Speaker 2: what happened from like a personal perspective. So I was
Speaker 2: able to kind of create characters and the book kind
Speaker 2: of evolved from there. The two of the storylines that
Speaker 2: I think I'm most proud of is the one, like
Speaker 2: there are two messages within the book. I'd probably say
Speaker 2: the one is, you know, I work with a lot
Speaker 2: of young girls, like twenty year olds are in college
Speaker 2: that aren't sure what they want to do with their life,
Speaker 2: or they got a degree in this and they're questioning
Speaker 2: that decision now that they've like had some time in
Speaker 2: their job, and so you know, i'd love I love
Speaker 2: my personal journey where it's like it doesn't I was,
Speaker 2: you don't have to be so boxed in of like
Speaker 2: check all the check boxes of what you think you
Speaker 2: need to do by a certain age, and just encouraging
Speaker 2: you know, people to stay open to what's out there.
Speaker 2: I love. I love that that message got put into
Speaker 2: the book, and then we spoke on it earlier just
Speaker 2: about the wildfire and you know, not being prepared and right,
Speaker 2: you know, the beauty of relying on your community and
Speaker 2: your neighbors to help you. I mean that story to
Speaker 2: me is just one that I think, you know, we'll
Speaker 2: just kind of never die because every natural disaster tragedy
Speaker 2: out there, you just see people helping each other, which
Speaker 2: is always a great thing to be a part of.
Speaker 1: No, absolutely, I mean it actually, and reading the book
Speaker 1: it made me feel good about people again because that,
Speaker 1: you know, people really, I think, deep down are good
Speaker 1: when they get off social media and don't fight about
Speaker 1: stupid politics or stuff, you know, because that's what I
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, that makes people like, oh, like
Speaker 1: politics have no place in social media and all that.
Speaker 1: Deep down you know, people are for the most part,
Speaker 1: most people are good and wired well to and when
Speaker 1: there is need, they come through.
Speaker 4: And we see that in your book, So I completely
Speaker 4: get that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And when the fire happened, I mean it was October
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty, so it was like a bitter election year.
Speaker 3: People just nobody seemed to like each other.
Speaker 2: That's kind of what brought it to like ahead for
Speaker 2: me was even though all that was going on, it
Speaker 2: was all forgotten when it came down to it.
Speaker 1: Sure, And it was also COVID was it was all right.
Speaker 1: It was the first six months of COVID. Yeah, that's right,
Speaker 1: because that was yeah, yeah crazy as much.
Speaker 2: As like, you know, I think I personally struggle with
Speaker 2: social media and you're.
Speaker 3: Getting wrapped up in it and I'm not.
Speaker 2: Liking it, but it, honestly, when I it was one
Speaker 2: of the things that saved us, Yes, because we were
Speaker 2: able to go on to social media and communicate that
Speaker 2: we needed help and the amount of people that responded,
Speaker 2: like we people that so many people saw the post
Speaker 2: on social media and that's what made them hook up
Speaker 2: their truck and trailer to come help us.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, yes, I get that. I get that, And
Speaker 1: that goes back to what we said. I mean, I
Speaker 1: feel like I have like a like hate relationship with
Speaker 1: it in the sense that I like it for that
Speaker 1: reason when you need to get a message out and
Speaker 1: social media is just there's no other way, you know,
Speaker 1: think back of people making phone calls or sending out flyers.
Speaker 4: Social media it's so immediate.
Speaker 1: But the part I hate, obviously is the you know,
Speaker 1: people just being nasty and stupid because I think they
Speaker 1: need hobbies or they need to volunteer, you know, get
Speaker 1: a job, a volunteer somewhere.
Speaker 4: No, but that's great, A great.
Speaker 1: I know, I know it's like everybody who's smart agrees
Speaker 1: with that, but but no, I think it's amazing that. Uh.
Speaker 1: That's the best part about social media is that people
Speaker 1: do come through and it's a way to get a
Speaker 1: message out, like for you with the fire and the
Speaker 1: help and you know, instant. So so for that, we're
Speaker 1: grateful for social media.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So where can my listeners get running free?
Speaker 2: So the books available on Amazon, so it's running free
Speaker 2: on Amazon. And my name, my name is spelled whird,
Speaker 2: so it's a m I and then Cullens U l
Speaker 2: Ean And then I also have a website running free
Speaker 2: Horses dot com that I'll just link it at Amazon
Speaker 2: and then the rand se lazyrand dot com. If anybody
Speaker 2: just wants to know more about like where I work with,
Speaker 2: how many horses we have, all the programs we have here,
Speaker 2: that's also something that you can look up as well. Well.
Speaker 4: That's wonderful.
Speaker 1: And what what do you think is next for you
Speaker 1: besides what you're doing? I mean, but in the sense
Speaker 1: of maybe another book or you're not sure, I know,
Speaker 1: this always your first one, and I'm not you know,
Speaker 1: like that's amazing. I don't mean to say, like, oh,
Speaker 1: what's next, but anything, you know, maybe or.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed writing this and I really am like
Speaker 2: I love teaching, and I'm really intrigued by all the
Speaker 2: leadership up like, like I do a lot of teaching
Speaker 2: leadership through horses, So I just kind of want to
Speaker 2: keep going down that path and connecting people and horses
Speaker 2: and basically, you know, teaching people through what horses have
Speaker 2: taught me. I really enjoy that. So that's what I
Speaker 2: see in the foreseeable future. Maybe there's another book.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, you're not sure, Okay, all right, Well,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for sharing all your knowledge and
Speaker 1: talking about your book and and I'm so I'm very
Speaker 1: happy to talk to you. And I really enjoyed the book,
Speaker 1: and thank you. Thank you for all that you don't
Speaker 1: you do and all that you're doing Amy.
Speaker 4: Colin, thank you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much for having me appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Just not set