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<v Speaker 1>What's up everyone, and welcome back to the program. Brian

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<v Speaker 1>Coohberger and the evidence against him has certainly piled up. However,

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<v Speaker 1>all of it is circumstantial in nature at least to

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<v Speaker 1>this point as far as the public's concerned. But some

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<v Speaker 1>of that information that has been released to the public

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<v Speaker 1>is very strong, and some of the strongest of that evidence,

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<v Speaker 1>the DNA evidence, is being tied together with cell phone

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<v Speaker 1>records that were used to put Brian Koberger at the

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<v Speaker 1>scene of the crime multiple times leading up to it

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<v Speaker 1>and even afterwards. So in this episode, we're gonna hear

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<v Speaker 1>from more experts who are talking about the cell phone

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<v Speaker 1>records and how the cell phone records could possibly help

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<v Speaker 1>the prosecution get to pay dirt and secure a conviction.

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<v Speaker 1>Today's article was published by news Week and the headline

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<v Speaker 1>how Brian Coberger's cell phone records could be used against them.

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<v Speaker 1>This article was authored by Kalita Rockman. It will be

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<v Speaker 1>months before prosecutors try to show a judge that they

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<v Speaker 1>have enough evidence to justify the charges against Brian Coburger,

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<v Speaker 1>and experts have told Newsweek that the cell phone data

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<v Speaker 1>could be instrumental in providing that evidence and it's going

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<v Speaker 1>to be very, very crucial what they come back with

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<v Speaker 1>when they really go into that phone. All of those

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<v Speaker 1>GPS coordinates, all of the stuff, the internal stuff, not

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<v Speaker 1>just the pings right the connecting to the cell phone tower.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a lot easier to explain than say, if your

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<v Speaker 1>phone connected to somebody's Wi Fi. We all know that

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<v Speaker 1>Wi Fi doesn't go that far away, and when you

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<v Speaker 1>leave your house, it's not long before you drop your WiFi,

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<v Speaker 1>and if you leave it on Rome, you'll pick it

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<v Speaker 1>up on somebody else's house. Maybe now it might not

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<v Speaker 1>connect if it's a private connection, but it will register

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<v Speaker 1>that it was connected to that Wi Fi router. Look,

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<v Speaker 1>these guys that go into these phones and get to

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<v Speaker 1>forensically snooping around, they're good at what they do, and

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<v Speaker 1>more times than not they find what they're looking for.

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<v Speaker 1>So if any of that happened and Brian Coberger's phone

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<v Speaker 1>connected or anything like that, they're gonna have that information

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<v Speaker 1>and they're gonna use it against them. Coburger, twenty eight,

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<v Speaker 1>is accused of breaking into a rental home in Moscow, Idaho,

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<v Speaker 1>in the early hours of November thirteenth, and fatally stabbing

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<v Speaker 1>four University of Idaho students Kaylee Gonsalvez, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle,

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<v Speaker 1>and Ethan Chapin. He is facing four counts of first

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<v Speaker 1>degree murder and one count of felony burglary. He has

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<v Speaker 1>not entered a plea, but a lawyer who represented him

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<v Speaker 1>previously said Coburger was eager to be exonerated. The preliminary

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<v Speaker 1>hearing is set to begin on June twenty sixth, and

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<v Speaker 1>this trial is going to be an absolute zoo. There's

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<v Speaker 1>going to be a ton of members of the media,

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<v Speaker 1>a ton of members of the independent media, content creators.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, there's going to be psychics and all the

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<v Speaker 1>rest of the carnival barkers showing up to have their

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<v Speaker 1>five minutes of fame. A probable cause affid David unsealed

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<v Speaker 1>in early January, revealed that investigators obtained Coburger's cell phone

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<v Speaker 1>records after police officers at Washington State University, where he

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<v Speaker 1>was a doctoral candidate in criminology, identified a white twenty

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<v Speaker 1>fifteen HONDEI a Lantra registered to him. It matched the

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<v Speaker 1>description of a vehicle that had been seen near the

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<v Speaker 1>scene of the crime on the night of the killings.

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<v Speaker 1>The Affid David said Coburger's phone was either turned off

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<v Speaker 1>or on airplane mode around the time of the killings,

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<v Speaker 1>but the data right before it was turned off suggested

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<v Speaker 1>he was heading in the direction of the home, while

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<v Speaker 1>data after it was turned back on suggested he was

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<v Speaker 1>heading away from there. I mean, come on, bro, really,

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<v Speaker 1>just leave your phone at your apartment, leave it on,

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<v Speaker 1>get yourself a burner, and be done with it. Using

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<v Speaker 1>the data and surveillance footage of the vehicle that police

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<v Speaker 1>identified as a white Hondai Lantra, investigators sketched out a

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<v Speaker 1>possible route that Coburger could have taken on the night

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<v Speaker 1>of the killings. Other cellular data showed Coburger had been

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<v Speaker 1>in the neighborhood at least a dozen times prior to

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<v Speaker 1>the murders, always late in the evening or early in

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<v Speaker 1>the morning, the affid David said, And I'm sure he

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<v Speaker 1>was just over there to hang out and listen to

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<v Speaker 1>his audio book and admire the facade on the side

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<v Speaker 1>of the house. He liked the way people mow their

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<v Speaker 1>lawns over there a little bit better than they do

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<v Speaker 1>over in Pullman. Or maybe he was over there having

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<v Speaker 1>some hot cocoa and trying to figure out how to

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<v Speaker 1>end the beef between the Palestinians and the Israelis. Come on, man,

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<v Speaker 1>we all know what old boy was doing over there here.

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<v Speaker 1>Experts tell Newsweek about how Coburger's cell phone data and

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<v Speaker 1>other records could be used against them. Joseph gia Coloone,

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<v Speaker 1>adjunct professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice, cell

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<v Speaker 1>phone records place him at or near the scene. Gia

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<v Speaker 1>Colone said that Coburger turned his device on and off

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<v Speaker 1>can explain intent to go unnoticed. He said, in addition,

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<v Speaker 1>if he left his phone on, he might have attached

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<v Speaker 1>to the Wi Fi. There is still so much we

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<v Speaker 1>don't know about the cell phone, and that's a very

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<v Speaker 1>fair statement. We have no idea what they swooped up

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<v Speaker 1>with those digital search warrants. You know that they got

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<v Speaker 1>a ton of evidence from Brian Coberger's accounts, from his

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<v Speaker 1>cloud account, any accounts that were attached to his phone,

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<v Speaker 1>forget it. That's how they usually nail people these days.

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<v Speaker 1>You can't do anything without your phone recording it. Gia

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<v Speaker 1>Colone said he would be interested in whether investigators have

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<v Speaker 1>video surveillance that shows cob returning to his apartment on

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<v Speaker 1>the night of the murders. I have yet to hear

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<v Speaker 1>if any exists, he said. He said other records from

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<v Speaker 1>Coburger's phone could also be key, such as map programs,

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<v Speaker 1>internet searches, and other apps. Remember a lot of these

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<v Speaker 1>apps you have to grant them permission to connect to

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<v Speaker 1>your phone, to get your location, all kinds of invasive shit.

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<v Speaker 1>So they leave a digital pattern of all of that.

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<v Speaker 1>And when you have people who are forensically gifted when

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<v Speaker 1>it comes to computers, the sky is the limit. It's

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<v Speaker 1>amazing the things they can recover off of a computer

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<v Speaker 1>or a cell phone or any digital record. Really, cell

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<v Speaker 1>phone records, internet records and video surveillance not only play

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<v Speaker 1>a role in this case, but just about every criminal

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<v Speaker 1>investigation moving forward, he said. And that's for sure, that's

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<v Speaker 1>the age we're in. If you're out here thinking you're

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<v Speaker 1>going to commit crimes and get away with it, chances

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<v Speaker 1>are you're not going to get away with it unless

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<v Speaker 1>it's in the inner city, And of course that's a

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<v Speaker 1>whole different ballgame. But if you're out here thinking you're

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<v Speaker 1>going to get away with being a serial killer, if

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<v Speaker 1>the police focus on you and they have the resources

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<v Speaker 1>that we saw in Idaho. The chances are slimmed, the

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<v Speaker 1>none that you're going to get away with it, Duncan Levin,

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<v Speaker 1>managing partner of Levin and Associates. The cell phone records

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<v Speaker 1>will be used to show, particularly that Coburger is alleged

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<v Speaker 1>to have turned off his phone for a few hours

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<v Speaker 1>around the time of the commission of the offense, and

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<v Speaker 1>that at Piting, near the site of the murders, directly thereafter.

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<v Speaker 1>Levin said. It also allegedly shows that he came to

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<v Speaker 1>the area of the murder scene in the months proceeding

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<v Speaker 1>and after remember nine am the next morning, what are

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<v Speaker 1>you doing showing up there, bro Levin said. Coburger's defense

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<v Speaker 1>attorney will argue that the cell towers are accurate to

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<v Speaker 1>about twenty miles, which is the distance roughly between his

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<v Speaker 1>apartment and the scene of the crime. In other words,

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<v Speaker 1>he will argue that there is a margin of error

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<v Speaker 1>in the records that does not prove what the state

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<v Speaker 1>is alleging. And they're not wrong if they argue that.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want to be the bearer of bad news

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<v Speaker 1>or anything. But if all they have is the pings,

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<v Speaker 1>it's gonna be a bad, bad time for the prosecution.

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<v Speaker 1>They better have this other stuff Wi Fi, GPS, that

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<v Speaker 1>sort of stuff, because that's ironclad. There's no arguing with that.

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<v Speaker 1>If that data says you were there, my friend, you

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<v Speaker 1>were there. Levin added, it's really true that our phones

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<v Speaker 1>know everything about us. Cell Phone technology is being used

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<v Speaker 1>around the country in criminal cases and act like beacons

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<v Speaker 1>to show where people were and when. And I know

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<v Speaker 1>for a fact a lot of organized criminals they're doing

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<v Speaker 1>away with cell phones. They're not using them. I even

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<v Speaker 1>know that there's some organizations going back they're using things

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<v Speaker 1>like pagers. So as the technology catches up, you have

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<v Speaker 1>to remember that the criminals, they're savvy. They're gonna change

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<v Speaker 1>it up too, and they're gonna start using different technology

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<v Speaker 1>to evade the police and evade the technology that the

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<v Speaker 1>police are using. It's the age old cat and mouse game,

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<v Speaker 1>isn't it. You're the cop on the robber. It's my

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<v Speaker 1>job to rob it's your job to stop me. Michael mccauliffe,

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<v Speaker 1>former federal prosecutor and elected state attorney, The location and

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<v Speaker 1>the movements of Coburger before, during, and after the killings

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<v Speaker 1>will play a major role in prosecuting them. Mccauliffe said

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<v Speaker 1>cell phone location and tracking evidence will be the basis

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<v Speaker 1>for that proof. Mcauliff explained that law enforcement uses triangulation

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<v Speaker 1>from signals between individual cell phones and towers to determine

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<v Speaker 1>movement and location, and newer phones can be located with

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<v Speaker 1>greater accuracy with GPS technology. Cell Phone location and tracking

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<v Speaker 1>evidence can be extremely valuable in building cases. He said.

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<v Speaker 1>The caveat is that a phone needs to be tied

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<v Speaker 1>to a specific person. However, I've given our cultural pension

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<v Speaker 1>to taking one's phone everywhere. It is not difficult to

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<v Speaker 1>link a cell phone and the person. Come on, who

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<v Speaker 1>leaves the house without their cell phone unless you forgot it,

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<v Speaker 1>or you're up to no good, or you're my mom.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think anyone's leaving their house without a cell

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<v Speaker 1>phone these days, certainly nobody who's twenty eight years old.

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<v Speaker 1>Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor, have applied forensics at Jacksonville State

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<v Speaker 1>University in Alabama. Coburger's cell phone records will be used

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<v Speaker 1>alongside his social media usage in order to demonstrate his

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<v Speaker 1>movements in the months, weeks, days, hours, minutes leading up

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<v Speaker 1>to the crime. Morgan said it might be used to

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<v Speaker 1>demonstrate that he made contact with the victims prior to

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<v Speaker 1>the murders, as well as his movements around the time

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<v Speaker 1>of the killings and the day after. Morgan said those

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<v Speaker 1>records could also be used to validate or invalidate any

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<v Speaker 1>possible alibis that may be put forth by Coburger's defense attorney.

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<v Speaker 1>So I've had people out here say before, oh, well,

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<v Speaker 1>what if he didn't have a cell phone, what if

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<v Speaker 1>somebody stole it? What if the dog ate his homework?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, for real, You're gonna have to prove that.

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<v Speaker 1>So it sounds fine when you're having an argument with

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<v Speaker 1>somebody on the internet about if Brian Coberger is guilty

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<v Speaker 1>or not, But in a courtroom in front of a jury,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a whole different game. And if you don't have

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<v Speaker 1>the evidence to back up what you're saying, why would

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<v Speaker 1>the jurors believe any of your nonsense. Did you report

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<v Speaker 1>your phone stolen? No? Did you turn it off? No?

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<v Speaker 1>How did you get it back? Uh? See where we're

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<v Speaker 1>going here? And trust me when I tell you I'm

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<v Speaker 1>certainly not some kind of seasoned interrogator. I'm lucky I

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<v Speaker 1>can pare my socks correctly in the morning folks. Nima Rochmani,

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<v Speaker 1>president and co founder of West Coast Trial Lawyers, the

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<v Speaker 1>cell side evidence would be better if Coburger's phone didn't

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<v Speaker 1>turn off or go on airplane mode for several hours

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<v Speaker 1>when the murders happened, Rockmanni said. Prosecutors will argue that

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<v Speaker 1>the path of travel to and from Idaho is enough,

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<v Speaker 1>and the phone pinging from the house before and after

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<v Speaker 1>the murders is evidence he was stalking the victims. Rockmani said,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's going to be part of that evidence,

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<v Speaker 1>but I also think they're going to point to things

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<v Speaker 1>like the mad Greek, things like him being on campus

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<v Speaker 1>at the student union, him following them on Instagram, him

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<v Speaker 1>sending the messages on Instagram. All of that is going

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<v Speaker 1>to tie together, and then it's going to be a

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<v Speaker 1>nice little bow that they're going to drop for the jury.

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<v Speaker 1>But the defense will argue that the time stamps of

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<v Speaker 1>the cell site pings are inconsistent with the videos of

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<v Speaker 1>the vehicle. Rockmani said, evidence that Coburger sent messages to

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<v Speaker 1>one of the victims on social media could be used

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<v Speaker 1>against them, and that's why it's important that that happened

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<v Speaker 1>and why it's a crucial bit of evidence, and why

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<v Speaker 1>you saw the judge, by the way, drop a gag

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<v Speaker 1>order directly after this information became available. Well, you think

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<v Speaker 1>that just happened on its own. Judge woke up and

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<v Speaker 1>organically said, let's make my life more difficult by putting

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<v Speaker 1>a gag order on damn near everybody. I highly doubt

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<v Speaker 1>that Judge Marshall woke up and wanted to do that,

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<v Speaker 1>but I bet you her hand was called. And a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of it had to do with the fact that

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<v Speaker 1>it was revealed that these girls were contacted by Brian

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<v Speaker 1>Coolberger on Instagram, and when you follow the thread, that's

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<v Speaker 1>exactly where it ends up, at least for me. Now, look,

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<v Speaker 1>it might be something completely different, right, We might get

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<v Speaker 1>information later on that none of that occurred. But I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think we're gonna hear that. I think we're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>hear that he did contact them on Instagram. He was

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<v Speaker 1>following them on Instagram, and he was somebody who was

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<v Speaker 1>on that campus quite often. Oh and the Mad Greek

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<v Speaker 1>pretty sure he ate there too. The Instagram direct messages

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<v Speaker 1>are also good. He said. That's the only direct connection

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<v Speaker 1>so far between Coburger and one of the victims, and

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<v Speaker 1>evidence of motive to commit the murders one hundred percent.

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<v Speaker 1>And remember you don't need motive per se. The murders

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<v Speaker 1>were committed. And if you have enough evidence that the

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<v Speaker 1>person who committed the murders is the person in the courtroom,

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<v Speaker 1>well they're gonna be found guilty motive or not. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, motive is a very key component of figuring

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<v Speaker 1>out what happened. Why would somebody be driven a murder?

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<v Speaker 1>And that's what a defense attorney'll say, You can't even

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<v Speaker 1>give me motive. Why would my client kill? Well, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>your client's just a sick bastard. Ever think of that now.

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<v Speaker 1>Obviously the prosecution won't say anything like that, but that's

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<v Speaker 1>what we'll all be thinking. So it's going to be

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<v Speaker 1>interesting to see which way Coburger goes and what sort

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<v Speaker 1>of strategy they unferl But either way, you know, your boy,

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<v Speaker 1>his beard and his big mouth will be here for

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<v Speaker 1>the duration. All right, everybody that's gonna do it for

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<v Speaker 1>this one. All of the information that goes along with

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<v Speaker 1>this episode can be found in the description box.