WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:10.000 My Billy Cunningham, the Great America. Welcome this windy Tuesday. 2 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:12.720 After him in the Tristate Reds Baseball kicks off again 3 00:00:12.759 --> 00:00:15.400 about five forty to night. First bitch, about six forty 4 00:00:15.599 --> 00:00:18.760 Luis Castillo on the mountain for Seattle and Ladolo goes 5 00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:21.440 for the Red Legs. They won five of the last six. 6 00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:24.359 One might add that the first eight games of this 7 00:00:24.440 --> 00:00:26.800 year the Reds were two and six, and the last 8 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:29.440 eight games the Reds are six and two. On the 9 00:00:29.480 --> 00:00:32.079 right track eight and eight, about ten percent of the 10 00:00:32.079 --> 00:00:34.880 season is done and the Reds are about a game 11 00:00:34.920 --> 00:00:36.600 and a half out of first place. With the Cubs 12 00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:38.960 in first place. We'll see what happens, and the Reds 13 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:41.840 do not play another team now at this point is 14 00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:45.560 a winning record until May twentieth. They got five weeks 15 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:49.119 of playing softballs. But we'll see what happens down the road. 16 00:00:49.159 --> 00:00:53.640 But secondly, yesterday in Common Police Court, and for some reason, 17 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:56.399 the smile of the life of Benjamin Addison, who I 18 00:00:56.399 --> 00:00:58.640 never knew, has stuck in my mind for a while. 19 00:00:58.719 --> 00:01:01.359 I think every parent's worse nightmare when you send a 20 00:01:01.439 --> 00:01:05.439 kid to UC. I guess to Xavier Nku Miami, he said, 21 00:01:05.040 --> 00:01:08.040 they're on their own, but you want the best for him. 22 00:01:08.079 --> 00:01:10.599 You want a kid to have roots with the family 23 00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:14.319 and wings to fly. And Benjamin Addison, who was twenty 24 00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:17.439 one years old when he was murdered and near the 25 00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:20.799 UC campus Mount Auburn, was doing everything right. He worked, 26 00:01:20.920 --> 00:01:23.480 works his way through school, had good grades, he was 27 00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:26.319 a mentor, the freshman that came in. The kid did 28 00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:30.680 everything right. And one evening he called his mom and 29 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:33.120 mom said, Ony, don't you come home, which was I 30 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:35.439 think in Anderson Township might have been wrong about that, 31 00:01:35.519 --> 00:01:38.040 but he said, no, Mom, I'm gonna stay downtown and 32 00:01:39.640 --> 00:01:42.920 have some fun and idea. I guess the suspicion is he, 33 00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:45.040 you know, wanted to be like a college kid. And 34 00:01:45.719 --> 00:01:47.760 about one or two o'clock in the morning, he looks 35 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:50.159 out the window of a friend's apartment and sees the 36 00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:54.079 lights of his Hyundai or on and he's thinking, man, 37 00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:56.439 did I leave the door open or something? So he 38 00:01:56.519 --> 00:02:01.480 goes out there. Suddenly he's confronted by the Justin At Dugan, 39 00:02:01.959 --> 00:02:05.439 only seventeen years old at the time. According to media accounts, 40 00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:08.520 he was trying to steal the car, and some sort 41 00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:13.319 of confrontation occurred between Benjamin Addison, the rightful uc student, 42 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:17.840 who was certainly unarmed and compared to the behavior, of 43 00:02:17.879 --> 00:02:22.080 course of one Justin Dugan, who was there to commit 44 00:02:22.199 --> 00:02:24.280 an armed robbery of one type or another. He was 45 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:27.360 indicted for murder some other things, and as a consequence, 46 00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:32.439 the case was before Judge Alison Hathaway, who, by the way, 47 00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:36.599 spent years here in the newsroom. James Bogan, you may 48 00:02:36.680 --> 00:02:40.719 recall many many years ago we had Rachel Ali and 49 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:46.280 we had a newsroom and Alison Hathaway was an employee 50 00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:49.960 of seven hundred WLW in the newsroom with bridget Rachel 51 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:52.840 and Ali, and I spent a lot of time with Ali, 52 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:55.439 and I sent a recommendation to get her into law school. 53 00:02:55.439 --> 00:02:58.280 That's kind of required a little bit. And now after 54 00:02:58.439 --> 00:03:00.479 I don't know, ten or fifteen years later, guess what, 55 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:05.599 she's a Common Police Court Judge al and Alison Hathaway 56 00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:11.400 sentenced the defendant, James Justin Dugan, to many say, only 57 00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:14.840 twenty one years in jail for this felony murder. And 58 00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:17.120 first of all, James Bogan, welcome again to the Bill 59 00:03:17.159 --> 00:03:20.039 Cunningham Show. And before we talk about the president, am 60 00:03:20.039 --> 00:03:22.960 I right to assume that a felony murder maybe ten 61 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:26.039 or twenty years ago couldn't make one applicable for the 62 00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:29.599 death penalty and or life imprisonment without possibility of parole. 63 00:03:29.919 --> 00:03:30.840 Was that the way it was? 64 00:03:32.199 --> 00:03:33.879 Yeah, that is the way it was. 65 00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:39.159 And of course in between the Supreme Court decided that 66 00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:42.759 seventeen or anyone under eighteen cannot get the death penalty, 67 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:48.120 and they subsequently expanded that they can't get life without parole. 68 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:53.080 So really, justin Dugan, because of his age, his tender 69 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:56.639 age of seventeen, could not get the death penalty and 70 00:03:57.360 --> 00:03:59.960 could not get possibility life without possibility. 71 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:01.560 So here's the other issue. 72 00:04:01.879 --> 00:04:04.840 I added up the years he could have faced voluntary manslaughter, 73 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:07.680 felonious assault and using a gun to commit an offense. 74 00:04:07.719 --> 00:04:10.520 You could have got twenty six point five years instead 75 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:11.560 of twenty one years. 76 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:14.159 Why do you suspect the lower range was taken? 77 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:16.199 Juh? 78 00:04:16.279 --> 00:04:20.879 I mean I suspect Bill that this was an agreed 79 00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:25.759 plea deal. You see these in murder cases more often, 80 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:28.879 much more often than open please which, by the way, 81 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:30.839 when you go and do an a greed plea deal, 82 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:33.000 the judge does not have to go along with it. 83 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:38.079 But this sentence here. To be very honest, I don't 84 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:41.000 that seems to be around the going rate that we 85 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:43.639 see in these kinds of cases on plea deals. 86 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:47.000 And Connie Pillach was on with Scott Sloan this morning 87 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:48.879 and she kind of implied that it was kind of 88 00:04:48.879 --> 00:04:53.439 a negotiated sentence. The family is not happy, Benjamin Addison's 89 00:04:53.439 --> 00:04:57.199 mom and dad, especially Joseph Addison the father, and the 90 00:04:57.279 --> 00:04:59.639 mother went through the fact that her son should have 91 00:04:59.639 --> 00:05:03.920 been great situating next next month from UC. She'll never 92 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:06.879 have grandchildren to hold. It was a terrible case. The 93 00:05:06.959 --> 00:05:09.560 family did not agree with the sentence. So, in a 94 00:05:09.639 --> 00:05:12.800 practical way, when you're in negotiations with a criminal defense 95 00:05:12.839 --> 00:05:17.079 attorney and with prosecutor's office, if the family does not agree, what. 96 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:20.279 Weight does that have in the sentencing. 97 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:24.319 It just depends on the overall evidence of the case 98 00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:29.839 and other circumstances. Every case is different, and obviously in 99 00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:33.000 this case, I'm not privy to any particulars that would 100 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:36.519 have moved the needle either way. 101 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:39.800 And as a consequence, and Justin Dugan's going to be 102 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:42.639 out of prison, I guess when he's about thirty eight 103 00:05:42.759 --> 00:05:45.399 or thirty nine years old, and I don't know what 104 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:47.240 kind of person's going to come out of jail at 105 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:51.800 that point, but it looks to me like his age 106 00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:55.360 worked in his favor, even though his behavior was as 107 00:05:55.399 --> 00:05:58.439 an adult to be seventeen years old. The law says, 108 00:05:58.439 --> 00:06:01.800 I think you told me earlier the cases Miller versus Alabama, 109 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:05.920 where a juvenile cannot get life without possibility of parole, 110 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:08.240 and of course they can't get the death penalty either, 111 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:09.120 and so. 112 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:11.399 It is what it is. 113 00:06:11.439 --> 00:06:13.199 But he could have got he could have got murder, 114 00:06:13.639 --> 00:06:15.879 in which case he would have to serve fifteen years 115 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:18.959 before eligibility. And I's gonna be eligible for five or 116 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:20.959 six years. So you're down in the bows of the 117 00:06:21.000 --> 00:06:25.160 courthouse every day. You're saying that our former employee, Judge 118 00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:29.240 Allison Hathaway, did not do anything out of the unusual. 119 00:06:30.839 --> 00:06:34.120 No, and in this case here, the only thing that 120 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:36.800 would be unusual be to not go along within the 121 00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:40.319 crete sentence. I mean, I actually had that bus stop 122 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:46.560 rapist in Forced Park earlier this year, and she hit 123 00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:51.040 him pretty hard. So when I had things about trauma 124 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:55.959 and mental health and substance abuse to argue for, you know, mitigation, 125 00:06:56.079 --> 00:06:58.439 which is the kind of stuff any decent attorney would 126 00:06:58.439 --> 00:07:00.160 look up looking too. 127 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:02.079 Yeah, I don't. 128 00:07:02.439 --> 00:07:05.240 I haven't had any experience where she does anything unusual 129 00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:06.279 with any of my cases. 130 00:07:06.759 --> 00:07:10.199 You're saying, our former news employee Ali is doing a 131 00:07:10.199 --> 00:07:12.399 pretty good job, is what you're saying, James. 132 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:14.319 Bogan, Yes, I am. 133 00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:16.240 And you know I actually knew her when she was 134 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:19.199 a news employee. One time she covered a case that 135 00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:22.279 I was working with. Legend Isaiah Gaines, Gains. 136 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:24.360 And Gaines Attorneys at law. If you need me, call me. 137 00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:29.199 And he still had your picture on the wall. 138 00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:31.120 Ships all right. 139 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:34.199 So for those who say, maybe some here say, look, 140 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:37.360 you don't kill a twenty one year old UC student 141 00:07:37.920 --> 00:07:41.040 during a felony murder armed robbery and get off for 142 00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:44.720 twenty one years, James Bogan would say he didn't get off. 143 00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:48.519 Justice Dugan. I would say, this wasn't his first rodeo. 144 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:51.399 But we don't know the record of a juvenile either. 145 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:54.319 I would assume this wasn't his first arm robbery, and 146 00:07:54.360 --> 00:07:56.519 he got kind of a sentence that was at least 147 00:07:56.879 --> 00:07:59.360 in the range of what normally happens in Hamley County. 148 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:05.720 Yeah, I mean, I just haven't seen anything unusual ever 149 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:11.120 since Pillas took over for these new judges to you know, 150 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:14.120 I haven't seen anything that really raises any red flags. 151 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:16.759 Let's move on to the next case. Brian Hamrick had this. 152 00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:20.480 A Channel five security video reveals new information about a 153 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:24.040 shootout that left one man dead and a teenager under arrest. 154 00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:26.920 The video shows twenty five year old at Kyle Merrick 155 00:08:27.040 --> 00:08:30.240 outside a carry out on Short Vine. You know the 156 00:08:30.319 --> 00:08:33.240 UC campus. I'm sure you've been there many times. And 157 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:35.600 the video, it looks like Kyle is simply looking at 158 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:39.279 his phone and suddenly investigators a person who pulled a 159 00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:42.080 gun on him was a fifteen year old. It looked 160 00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:46.480 like an arm robbery in progress. And the video shows 161 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:49.279 the alleged attacker, the fifteen year old whose name I 162 00:08:49.320 --> 00:08:51.399 guess we can't use, with a gun in his hand, 163 00:08:51.639 --> 00:08:55.360 lunging at Mirrick, the victim I assume to get something 164 00:08:55.399 --> 00:08:59.600 of value from him, and then Mirrick, the future dead guy, 165 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:02.720 pushes the team away and begins to run. The team 166 00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:07.080 raises the gun and fires at Merrick, and then Merrick, 167 00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:10.159 unbeknownst to the attacker, had a gun on his own. 168 00:09:10.399 --> 00:09:12.440 Kind of explained to the American people what happened to 169 00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:14.879 that on short vine in Coreyville. 170 00:09:16.320 --> 00:09:19.720 Well, basically, just like he described, that fifteen year old 171 00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:22.480 goes up to Merrick just sticks a gun in him. 172 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:25.600 Merrick pushes him when he starts running a bit, the 173 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:28.440 team raises a gun and fires. Mirk turns around and 174 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:33.440 fires some shots himself. The team falls, Mrick runs off, 175 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:37.480 and then shortly after that Merk's dead, and. 176 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:40.039 The video shows when Merrick was shot the victim he 177 00:09:40.120 --> 00:09:42.639 didn't you know, the first time you're shot. For a 178 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:44.759 few seconds, you don't know your shot. He was dead 179 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:47.600 man walking. And at this point, the fifteen year old 180 00:09:47.720 --> 00:09:51.200 who committed this attempt at armed robbery will probably be 181 00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:55.480 treated just like Justin Dugan for killing Benjamin Addison. Because 182 00:09:55.519 --> 00:09:58.679 he's under eighteen. He can't get the death penalty, he 183 00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:01.919 can't serve life without possibility of parole. He's probably looking 184 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:05.559 at twenty to twenty five years. Can you discuss how 185 00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:08.440 unusual is today they have these teenagers running around with 186 00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:11.919 guns committing these offenses in and around Coreyville. You see, 187 00:10:11.960 --> 00:10:14.200 I would think it's one of the more violent campuses 188 00:10:14.480 --> 00:10:17.159 in the country. And it looks like lots of events 189 00:10:17.159 --> 00:10:20.159 are taking place, and how you're a UC Grant. 190 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:21.120 Is that correct? 191 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:27.600 Yeah, I mean the crime rates. I've heard of mixed 192 00:10:27.879 --> 00:10:30.960 things about it. However, it's pretty clear that you don't 193 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:33.559 want to be on Short Vine at night. And just 194 00:10:33.799 --> 00:10:37.600 the sheer number of teen shooting teams doing the shootings 195 00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:41.919 that we've seen at the court, it's just blown up. 196 00:10:42.279 --> 00:10:46.120 And the big thing that just these these teams that 197 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:49.799 are out at times where they shouldn't be, I mean, 198 00:10:49.919 --> 00:10:52.000 makes me wonder where the hell of the parents. 199 00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:56.200 That's a good a fifteen year old, maybe a freshman 200 00:10:56.519 --> 00:10:59.879 with a gun sticking up people on Short Vine. And 201 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:03.360 you know, I tell those around me, if this happens 202 00:11:03.399 --> 00:11:06.240 to you, put your hands up and say what do 203 00:11:06.279 --> 00:11:10.399 you want? Give this arm Robert whatever they want. And 204 00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:14.000 so the behavior of the future dead guy, the victim, 205 00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:18.720 what he did, in a sense precipitated the shooting, which 206 00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:21.039 may not have occurred. But if you're a victim in 207 00:11:21.039 --> 00:11:23.039 that circumstance, you don't know what the hell you're going 208 00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:23.360 to do. 209 00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:24.720 What advice would you give? 210 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:28.080 James Bogan of those who find themselves in that situation, 211 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:31.120 like Benjamin Addison didn't know he was about to be 212 00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:34.879 murdered by Justin Dugan, and of course, Merrick didn't know 213 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:36.039 he was about to be murdered. 214 00:11:36.279 --> 00:11:38.879 What do you do in that situation? If you find. 215 00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:42.080 Yourself Mirrick, what he should have done was exactly what 216 00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:44.919 you said, put your hands up and say take what 217 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:48.840 you want. Your property is not worth your life. And 218 00:11:49.159 --> 00:11:53.879 for Addison, he should have, in hindsight, I hate to 219 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:57.279 blame him in any way or sound like it, he 220 00:11:57.360 --> 00:11:59.600 should have stayed inside, maybe. 221 00:11:59.519 --> 00:12:01.399 Yelled at the hey, what are you doing? 222 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:06.039 You know, and you know, call the police because there 223 00:12:06.039 --> 00:12:08.279 plenty of times where it's just yelling out the window 224 00:12:08.360 --> 00:12:11.240 like that can scare them off because the one thing 225 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:15.279 thieves hate is being detected. But you know, that's just 226 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:21.279 I'm just guessing here. But going outside, obviously, in hindsighting 227 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:25.159 going outside and confronting was a mistake. And here's the thing. 228 00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:29.159 When you're in those firearms courses and so on, when 229 00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:32.000 you're taught home self defense, if an intruder breaks into 230 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:35.759 your home, they actually teach do not confront the intruder. 231 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:39.000 You retreat to a room with your fire a safe 232 00:12:39.039 --> 00:12:41.759 room with your firearm, and yell out that you have 233 00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:45.480 a gun and you've called the police. Something like that, 234 00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:48.320 because if you confront one intruder, How do you know 235 00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:51.039 there's not another one coming up behind you and going 236 00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:52.120 to do something to you? 237 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:55.519 So be passive, think about it ahead of time, know 238 00:12:55.639 --> 00:12:57.840 what you're going to do in that circumstance before it 239 00:12:57.879 --> 00:13:00.440 takes place, and if it occurs, be passed as if 240 00:13:00.759 --> 00:13:02.200 slowly put your hands up and. 241 00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:02.919 Say what do you want? 242 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:05.360 That's correct? 243 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:07.759 Now before we get into this case. It is terrible 244 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:10.759 stabbing case which I sent this to you. Also about 245 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:14.159 the teen suspect free on bond after stabbing a Texas 246 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:18.159 track Star Austin Metcalf to death. I tell those who 247 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:21.240 park their vehicles that leave nothing of value in the 248 00:13:21.279 --> 00:13:24.879 car and do not lock the doors, because the first 249 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:28.080 thing these thieves are going to do is break a window, 250 00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:29.679 which costs you a thousand bucks. 251 00:13:29.879 --> 00:13:30.919 It's a pain in the neck. 252 00:13:31.559 --> 00:13:34.799 And of course cops say, look, lock up, have nothing 253 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:37.639 of value, but lock the doors to your car. What 254 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:40.320 does James Bogan say? Do you say lock the door 255 00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:42.519 leave nothing in or do you say leave the door 256 00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:44.080 unlocked and leave nothing in? 257 00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:44.919 What do you say? 258 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:49.600 I say, lock the door, don't leave anything in Because 259 00:13:49.639 --> 00:13:52.200 the biggest thing that I've seen with cases is when 260 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:54.200 people break in the cars. They look in the window, 261 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:58.720 see something valuable, and hey, I want that. If I've 262 00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:02.679 never had my car broke into knock On Wood and 263 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:05.639 I you know, parking in Clifton and everything when I 264 00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:09.759 was at UC, it's a matter of don't leave valuable 265 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:13.360 stuff out in your car. That is the number one 266 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:15.399 thing that's going to get your car broken into. 267 00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:19.519 Let's talk about another juvenile case. This is out of Texas, 268 00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:22.159 and you know, this is another awful case in which 269 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:24.440 I guess there was a high school track meet and 270 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:27.399 the two schools were going at each other on the 271 00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:31.159 track and a teen suspect got free on bond yesterday 272 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:35.440 after allegedly stabbing Texas track star Austin Metcalf to death. 273 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:39.240 I guess Metcalf said to this teenager, whose name is 274 00:14:39.399 --> 00:14:43.080 Carmelo Anthony, seventeen years old, that you're standing in the 275 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:45.279 wrong spot or whatever. And they had words back and 276 00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:48.200 forth to each other, and at one point Carmelo Anthony, 277 00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:52.039 seventeen years old is now facing first degree murder chargers 278 00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:55.360 in Metcalf's death, simply reached into his bag, pulled out 279 00:14:55.399 --> 00:14:58.440 a knife, and plunged it into the chest of this kid, 280 00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:01.879 a parent's worst nightmare. As a criminal defense attorney, what 281 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:04.799 comes to mind? Because he's claiming self defense, he is 282 00:15:04.840 --> 00:15:08.519 saying saying a little push on his chest from the 283 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:11.279 future victim was sufficient to stab him in the chest, 284 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:14.200 causing him to bleed out. What do you say is 285 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:16.039 how to valid self defense claim? 286 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:19.759 Any first year law student will tell you it's not, 287 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:25.039 even if the teen who stabbed Austin Metcalf had attacked Anthony. 288 00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:25.600 First. 289 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:28.639 Here's the thing. Deadly force is only allowed if the 290 00:15:28.679 --> 00:15:33.000 attacker uses deadly force, or if there's an objection objectively 291 00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:36.240 reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm. If someone 292 00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:39.480 attacks you with non deadly force, you can't escalate the 293 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:41.559 level of force. You can only do enough to repel 294 00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:44.559 the attack. And this even applies with standard ground law 295 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:47.159 standard ground. Contrary to what the left likes to say, 296 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:49.960 it only takes away the duty to retreat when you 297 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:52.720 meet all the other prongs of self defense. It doesn't 298 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:56.960 just turn the streets into the wild West. And when 299 00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:00.000 Anthony reached into his bag and took out the knife, 300 00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:04.639 that shows pre meditation under the legal definition, because no 301 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:08.600 particular amount of planning or particular amount of thought is required, 302 00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:12.519 he escalated the force involved. Again, this is something any 303 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:15.080 first year law student can tell you, and this is 304 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:17.480 something you need to know for the bar examine. It's 305 00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:21.080 absolutely sickening that the left has turned it into a 306 00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:23.720 race issue and turned this kid into a hero. 307 00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:28.200 You know, the defendant is black, the dead teenager is white. 308 00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:32.159 The Anthony family has raised four hundred and twenty five 309 00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:36.000 thousand dollars on line to defend the black kid against 310 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:38.559 being pushed by the so called white kid and the 311 00:16:38.679 --> 00:16:41.919 lawyer standing in your stead. James Bogan said, quote, every 312 00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:44.759 Texan has the right to defend themselves when they reasonably 313 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:47.559 fear for their life. Self defense is a protection that 314 00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:49.600 applies to each and every one of us. There are 315 00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:52.480 two sides to every story. This is a tragedy all 316 00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:55.080 the way around. Do not rush for judgment. If one 317 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:58.720 pushes you, or maybe even slaps you, that does not 318 00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:01.480 give you the right to stab them and use deadly 319 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:04.400 forced The force you use must be commensurate with the 320 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:08.039 force used against you. So if some person slaps you 321 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:10.599 and pushes you, I don't know about punching. That's in 322 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:12.559 a different category. You could be hitting the head and 323 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:15.200 fall down and kill yourself. But if someone pushes you 324 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:17.480 with your hand, you don't have the right to take 325 00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:20.400 a dagger and stab them in the chest. But this 326 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:23.279 has become a race issue, and so suddenly, because the 327 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:26.440 defendant is a is a black teenager, they're going to 328 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:29.839 raise more than a million dollars for his defense. And 329 00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:33.640 it reminds me of Luigi Mangioni killing the killing the 330 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:38.079 insurance executive. He's raised two million dollars and it's pretty sick. Well, 331 00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:39.640 James Bogan, we got to go. I want to get 332 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:42.359 your advice on all these matters. But the number one, 333 00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:45.200 if you're going to be held up or someone burglarizes 334 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:48.319 your home, retreat and yell that you have a gun, 335 00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:50.440 even if you don't, and the police are on their way, 336 00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:53.920 and do and be passive as can be. But James Bogan, 337 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:56.440 once again, thank you for coming on the Bill Cunningham Show. 338 00:17:56.480 --> 00:17:58.599 Thank you, James, Thank you. 339 00:17:58.640 --> 00:17:58.880 Bill. 340 00:17:58.920 --> 00:18:00.359 Always a privilege, bless you. 341 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:03.680 Let's continue with more if line becomes available five one, three, seven, four, nine, 342 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:07.000 seven thousand, we schedule later on Governor Mike Dwine, depending 343 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:09.599 upon connections and things like that. I believe he's in 344 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:12.559 Washington doing some stuff there, But he wants to report 345 00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:14.319 on the budget and so much more, and also the 346 00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:16.960 funding of the Bengal Stadium. All on News Radio seven 347 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:20.839 hundred WLW. Billy Cunningham, The great American of course today 348 00:18:20.920 --> 00:18:23.319 is taxed to April to fifteenth. You must give to 349 00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:25.960 Caesar the things that are Caesar's and the God the 350 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:28.920 things that are God. You have until about four thirty today, 351 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:32.359 five o'clock Eastern time today to have your envelope postmarked. 352 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:34.880 And many people wait to the NFA owe money like 353 00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:37.039 yours surely, or on the other hand, if you get money, 354 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:39.839 you might file a bit early. But the tax policy 355 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:42.839 is something in great debate in Washington. In fact, Donald 356 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:46.680 Trump promises a big, beautiful bill before Memorial Day which 357 00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:50.240 will be about eighty thousand pages long, describing this, describing 358 00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:52.960 that want to get perspective where we are and where 359 00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:53.519 we hope to be. 360 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:55.240 Joining you and I now. 361 00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:58.480 Scott Hodge is a tax and physical policy fellow at 362 00:18:58.480 --> 00:19:02.000 the Arnold Ventures form a president of the Tax Foundation 363 00:19:02.119 --> 00:19:05.640 of America. Scott Hodge, Welcome to the Bill Cunningham Show. Scott, 364 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:08.759 first of all, can you tell the American people about 365 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:12.279 the original tax policy in this country was to in 366 00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:15.119 a sense, and I think it was like nineteen sixteen 367 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:17.400 to tax a little bit of income, and that's it. 368 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:20.720 It's grown in a gargantuan way. And can you tell 369 00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:24.000 the American people. Do one percent of the American people 370 00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:28.240 pay about I don't know forty I think forty percent 371 00:19:28.279 --> 00:19:31.440 of the taxes. The top five percent pay seventy five percent. 372 00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:34.279 And if you're real rich and you have capital gains 373 00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:38.279 income you play, you kind of already pay a different 374 00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:41.559 rate than the earned income. But is it our Do 375 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:43.880 we already have a tax policy in which those who 376 00:19:43.920 --> 00:19:49.160 have high incomes already pay disproportion amount of the federal bills? 377 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:51.559 Yeah, A lot of people are a bill are very 378 00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:55.920 surprised to hear how progressive our tax system is, which 379 00:19:55.960 --> 00:19:59.440 means how tilted it is toward the rich. And I 380 00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:01.240 don't mean that in the sense that the rich get 381 00:20:01.279 --> 00:20:04.119 all the tax bricks. It's that they pay the lion's 382 00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:06.720 share of the tax burden. In fact, at the other 383 00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:09.039 end of the scale, we have about fifty four million 384 00:20:09.079 --> 00:20:13.480 Americans every year pay zero income taxes because of the 385 00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:17.240 generosity of many things like the child tax credit and 386 00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:21.599 other deductions which wipe their tax bill away. Many of 387 00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:24.440 those people actually get a check back in what's called 388 00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:27.680 a refundable tax credit, meaning you get a check back 389 00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:30.480 even if you don't owe any taxes. And meanwhile, as 390 00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:34.319 you mentioned, the top one percent of taxpayers pays about 391 00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:40.000 forty percent of all the income taxes. And so we 392 00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:43.400 have a tax system that is very progressive, very tilted 393 00:20:43.400 --> 00:20:47.119 toward the rich. And that's why one of the reasons 394 00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:50.319 why it's so difficult to tax tax reform is because 395 00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:53.759 you have this political dialogue about who pays what and 396 00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:58.200 how much. And that's what this year is going to 397 00:20:58.200 --> 00:21:01.039 be a very challenging year to try to extend the 398 00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:05.119 twenty seventeen Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, because it's going 399 00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:07.039 to be a very very political debate. 400 00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:10.039 So the top one percent, Am I correct to say? 401 00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:13.160