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Speaker 1: Welcome to Next Level Soul, the place where we deep

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dive into the mysteries of existence, uncover hidden layers of consciousness,

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Alex Ferrari, and every week we sit down with the

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world's leading spiritual teachers, mystics, scientists, and truth seekers to

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illuminate the path towards awakening. Here we ask questions that

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And how do we elevate our lives, our purpose, and

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for transformation, a space for expansion, a space to remember

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who you really are. So take a deep breath, open

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your mind, and prepare to step into your next level soul.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: If you're ready to take your spiritual journey to the

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Now let's dive into today's episode. I like to welcome

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back to the show returning champion Michael Neil. Michael finally

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made it.

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Speaker 2: How you doing, brother, I'm good, Nice to see you.

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Speaker 1: Nice to see you as well.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 1: You know, you were one of our early guests back

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in the day, back before you merch and before we

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had it. We had no merch at that time. I

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didn't even have I was still in the court. Yeah,

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I did record in the corner of my home office

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where I set up a little set to uh to

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record all of these back in the day. Yeah, you were.

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You were kind enough to come on our show when

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we were just starting out. And if anyone listens to

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that episode, they know how much of a fan I

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was of yours. That's how I reached out to you

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because I read I think I must have read at

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least three or four of your books over the years,

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and they was very impactful and I just adore the

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work that you do. Man So and we have a

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couple of mutual friends involved in that that knew it

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connected us as well. So it was it was a

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really great conversation. I was like, you know what I

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need to need to bring Michael back on the show.

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Let's have have another deep conversation. Man. So I appreciate

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you coming back, man, Yeah, I appreciate you coming back. Man.

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So my first question, man, is when did you first

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realize that the way the way success is taught might

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actually be creating unnecessary suffering?

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Speaker 2: When I should have realized it, or when I actually

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I should have realized it when I was trying to

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do everything the way it's taught and I was suffering,

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That probably would have been the first clue. But I

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think I didn't realize it till I started coaching really

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successful people and noticed that there were there there was

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a there were like two completely different groups. There were

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the happy successful people and the miserable successful people. Yeah,

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and they really went about it in a completely different way,

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from a completely different place for a completely different reason.

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And I hadn't realized that. And so there were you

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can you can get successful by working really hard, screwing

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people over, taking advantage of I mean that yes, of

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course you can, but it turns out that not only

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do you not have to, but that kind of success

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is pretty miserable. It's never ending, There's never enough of it.

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I once wrote in one of my early books that

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there aren't enough cookies in the world to make you

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feel loved. So, you know, so when people are pursuing

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success from a place of just fundamental insecurity, it doesn't

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end well. And so when I started to meet some

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people who weren't doing it from that place, we're sort

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of following an inner vision and inner guidance and inner

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knowing that was the world that I was excited about

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being a part of. And so that for me just

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totally one eightied my approach.

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Speaker 1: Then what was happening in your own life when the

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inside out from one of your amazing books understanding stopped

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being becoming theory and actually became real in your life.

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Speaker 2: Well, it happened kind of quickly and continues to happen.

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I've I've been teaching this now for nineteen years, and

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I still like I think to think what day of

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the week it was. But like last Friday, I was

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I was calling people going, oh my god, I've just

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seen this and they're like, you've been talking about this

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for nineteen years. I'm like, no, but really, so you know,

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there's not like a one and done in that sense.

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But the absolute turning point for me was when I

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was watching a Sid Banks video, so Scottish mystic Sydney Banks,

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and he said, every human being is sitting in the

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middle of mental health, they just don't know it. And

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I had been anxious and depressed and struggled a lot

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of my life with mental health issues, and I just

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started laughing because I knew it was true. I don't

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know how I knew, but the first thought I actually

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had was babies don't need therapy. I couldn't have been

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born broken and somehow that just changed a thing. Yeah,

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it was pretty well.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like when you're saying that, it just

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what came to my mind was like, it's like watching

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a Kubrick film like you saw it. You know, watch

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the Shining and at one level, when you're twenty, you

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watch the Shining and it feels one way, but then

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you watch the Shining at thirty and at forty it

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hits you completely. So you might have been talking about

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the Shining for the last twenty years. But boy, you're like, no, no, no, no, no,

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you don't understand.

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Speaker 2: My dogs on that. I've got a black and white

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golden doodle, two dogs, and they will occasionally just stand

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at the end of this long hallway, tails wagging in synchrony,

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and all I can do is think of the twins

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from the Shining.

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Speaker 1: And go red wrong, Red Row. But that makes a

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good point, though. There are things that we might have

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read the same book, might have might have seen the

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same movie, might have had the same thought even under

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even had had a saying printed on the wall that

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meant something to you. Yeah, but it just hits differently

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at a certain time in your life. You just go, oh,

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So that's what the matrix is about.

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Speaker 2: Like I will regularly talk about it in terms of

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a basic course and an advanced course. And the basic

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course is kind of two things. It's seeing that we're

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living in the feeling of our thinking, not the feeling

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of our circumstances. And it's seeing that we're made of

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the intelligent energy that animite animates everything in life, and

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so we're actually made to thrive. We're not born in

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original sin, we're born in original grace. And then we

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learn all this other stuff that makes it really seem

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because we're living in the feeling, we're thinking like we

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are messed up and we are problematic and we do

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need to fix ourselves and change ourselves in order to

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be okay.

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Speaker 1: But Michael, why is it and this is predominant in society,

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in human society, that we are from the moment we're born,

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and not everybody, But I would argue most people are

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told that you are not enough, you are limited, you

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are not powerful, You must give your power to somebody else,

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something else, some organization other than what's in yourself. Where

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two of the greatest teachings that Jesus Christ ever talked about,

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or the Kingdom of Heaven is within you, And everything

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I could do, you could do it. More like everyone

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skips by that stuff with the original sin and all

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this other crap that Paul wrote into the Bible comes out.

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But but you know what, you know what I mean?

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But why? But why?

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Speaker 2: Well, there's a couple of reasons. One is you have

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you have millennia of the blind leading the blind.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's changed much.

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Speaker 2: Right, So it's like the first person who explained it

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explained life as oh, this makes sense. We're broken. That

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caught on, and so that became the explanation, and that

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just became so much part of the furniture that people

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didn't question it. It was given that we're broken. How

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best can we live given that we're broken? What's the

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best we can get out of ourselves? Given that we're broken?

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But being broken's been a given for five thousand years.

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When you don't start with that promise. I remember, actually

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I was in Austin but a year and a half ago, yeah,

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a little over a year and a half ago now,

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and I had the most extordinary experience. Somebody shared a story.

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You know, Anthony Demello, the Enlightened Jesuit. He's this amazing

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teacher who wrote a book called Awareness, and he's been

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dead for a long time, but he just a beautiful teacher.

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And one something I hadn't seen of his was a

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little story where he said, I used to be kind

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of annoying to be around, and everyone told me I

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needed to change, and I hated them for it, and

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I agreed with them, and I didn't know how to change.

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And it really got me one day when my best

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friend said, you need to change. I know, but I

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don't know how, and I can't and he said. And

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then one day his friend turned around and said, you

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know what I was wrong. Don't change. I love you

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as you are. And he said it completely changed his life.

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He said those words, just like don't change, don't change,

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don't change. I love you as you are. And he

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said he settled for the first time in his adult life,

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and he got really present, and.

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Speaker 1: Then he changed, We'll be right back after a word

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from our sponsor, and now back to the show, Like.

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Speaker 2: We're actually made to change and evolve and grow, but

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all our attempts to fix ourselves get in the way

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of what's natural. So I'm standing in front of a

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group in Austin and there's one hundred people in the audience,

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and for the first time I got up on stage.

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I've been doing this at that point for over thirty years.

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I look out an audience and I literally not on purpose.

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It was off to me. Nobody in that room needed

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to change now if they wanted to. I also knew

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I could help them, but I didn't start from the

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idea that there was anything wrong with anyone, and it

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turned out there really wasn't. And I do that as

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an exercise. Sometimes with people with clients, I'll say to them, Okay,

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I want you to give me like three things that

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went wrong or places where you're stuck in your life,

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and I want you to explain each one of them

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to me. But you're not allowed to explain it by

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there's something wrong with me. This is evidence that there's

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something that I need to change in me. And what's

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interesting is they can always come up with really plausible

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explanations that don't involve them being broken.

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Speaker 1: That's a beautiful explanation that has just been in the

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furniture because it just seems that way, because it is

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constantly a thing that you're not enough, the original sin,

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that ridiculousness. You look at a baby's eyes and you're like, well,

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they're not perfect.

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Speaker 2: This one's going to be trouble.

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Speaker 1: I mean, well, well we do see that that. Could

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I have kids, you definitely like you're like, this one's

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gonna give me a little run for my money. But

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but it is really interesting about how people are constantly

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feeling that they are not enough. And I think there

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is a movement, especially in the personal development space, self help,

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even in the spirituality space, where you're starting to go no, no, no,

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you you have the power within you. I was just

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mentioning the other day to somebody that if there's a

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teacher out there who says I am the way, you

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must follow me, run as fast as you can. In

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the opposite direction, a true teacher teaches you how to

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find the power within yourself, to heal yourself, to move forward,

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and to find that power that helps you work through life.

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Speaker 2: There was a great book title in I think it

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was in the nineteen seventies. I wasn't I didn't read

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it live, but need if you meet the Buddha on

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the road, kill him. And it wasn't obviously saying that literally.

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It was just pointing to the idea that this image

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of perfection that people put out into the world, it's

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not helpful and it's not true. So if somebody appears

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as this perfect being, just watch yourself. Now. They might be,

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they might do some wonderful things, But there is no

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teaching I have come across, and I've done my best

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to study all the world's teachings, and there's no teaching

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I've come across that says you know me, not you

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us not then right? You know? Later interpretations ad that

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bit in but they all say some variation on the

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Kingdom of Heaven is within you. You're You're made of this.

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It's the way I talk about it, and and and

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so it's it's like, other than being the perfection of

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life and form, what else do you need?

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 2: And maybe you need some life skills? Sure, yeah, that's

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not doesn't mean there's something wrong with you, that there's

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something more for you to learn to be better at

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a skill.

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Speaker 1: You know, you and I are of similar vintage, and

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there was a moment in our lives when our parents

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were God liked to us. You know, they knew everything,

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They were obviously perfect. It was a short moth of time,

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but it wasn't.

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Speaker 2: My Tuesday November.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it was like it is so it was. It

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was a moment where you know, you you were like,

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oh my god. And then as you get older, you

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start to look back upon what your pa parents did,

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and especially when you become a parent yourself. That's when

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it really hit me when I was like, oh my god,

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they were just doing the best they could with what

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they had at the time. So if you know your

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parents didn't do this for you or didn't do that,

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for you, or they treated you in a certain way

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that was honestly all they could give at the moment

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that you were born, and you were born into that situation.

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And the more I kind of go back to that,

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we're all just trying to do the best we can

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to make sense of this insanity that is life, the good,

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the bad, the indifferent, all of it, because this is

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crazy living life is absolutely insane. And then if you

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start to pull back, like in a interstellar or contact

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where I think it was contact, when you pull back

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from Earth and you're going through the Solar System and

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you just keep going back and back and back and

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back and all that stuff, then you if your head

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starts to wrap around how IgG significant it our planet is,

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let alone we are on the planet in the scope

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of the universe, it really starts to make put things

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into perspective. But on the flip side of that point,

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how important we really are to the universe is?

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Speaker 2: I think, you know, there's there's there's a there's a

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phrase that a friend of mine uses that I really like,

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and and it's that we make a difference to the

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whole because we are the whole. So at one level, yeah,

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we're insignificant little gnats on the you know, hind side

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of a dog on a planet, and you know, I mean,

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but on the other we are literally the entire universe

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in form. We are the formless reality out of which

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all form is created. So we absolutely are a big deal.

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But it's no big deal because so is everybody else.

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We're all in this and so it's really it's ordinary,

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but so is having a kid. And I think we

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both know there is nothing more significant than the ordinariness

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of having a.

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Speaker 1: Kid, especially at three o'clock in the morning when they're

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about one year old. Were and years old and they

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don't do it.

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Speaker 2: I remember, because my wife's British, we flew back and

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forth and somewhere around six months we did one of

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these trips and it was a nightmare and oh totally

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stopped sleeping. And I went on one of these early message

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boards and said, hey, anyone get advice for like a

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six month old with and all I got was crap.

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It's like, yeah, my kid's four and he's had jet

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lags all the time and we've never been on a plane.

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Speaker 1: Mike, What I love about what I love about your

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work and everything you've been doing for the last you know,

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years that decades that you've been working on this stuff.

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Is that you you approach your work with a very

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grounded point of view, but there is a spiritual undertone

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to it that is there, for at least I sense it.

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Maybe I'm wrong, but there seems to be a spiritual

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or a deeper like the underneath the surface. There's something

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else there that certain people will grasp. Other people will

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grasp the grounded stuff, the practical stuff, the tools, all

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that stuff, but there's something deeper underneath. For the the

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seeker who is reading your work or following what you do,

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consense a little bit. And that's one of the reasons

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I asked you back on the show is because of

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that is that thing underneath that you have ANDed. So

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from your point of view, after all the reading and

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all the teachings and all the people you have met,

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you know, around the world in the spiritual space and

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the personal development space, what is your take on spirituality

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and how you move through life? Because you've had a

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taste of all of it in very similar ways. I've

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spoken to Yeah Haven one hundred people aboutits at this point.

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Speaker 3: But you're not Jay, but you're still loving I love

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all of it, no, but but I've had so many

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different points of view that I have to melt them

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all together into a view that makes sense for me.

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Speaker 1: I lean one way because that way makes sense to me,

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but I respect always because always lead to the same

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destination in my eyes.

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Speaker 2: For me, spirit is the word that we use for

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the formless intelligence of life, Like whatever it is that

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everything comes out of, That's what I would call spirit.

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So the idea that it would be possible to not

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be spiritual is just not understanding what spirit is. It's

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like saying, well, you know, you only breathe if you

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believe in breath. No, you breathe whether you believe in

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breath or not. Your spiritual whether you believe in spirit

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or not. But I think for a lot of people

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they embrace the material and reject the spiritual, or embrace

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the spiritual and reject the material, And that's equally insane

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because the material is made out of the spiritual.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

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and now back to the show.

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Speaker 2: M Like one of my one of my you know,

351
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favorite one liners that that Sid Banks, the scotted Mystic.

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I mentioned earlier that he he he said, is once

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you can see that everything is God. That's it. Now.

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He wasn't saying God like person separate again, it was

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just his word for the illness, the isness, and the nothingness.

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So there's a formless reality and and and my mug

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is made out of it, and my body is made

358
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out of it, and this microphone is made out of it,

359
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and everything around me is made out of it. And

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how cool is that? I mean, we love movies. How

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cool is that we know they're not really ill we

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were there when we made them. But how amazing is

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it that we can get lost in them and get

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scared by them, and get frustrated by them, and get

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excited by them, Like that's life, Like that is the

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beauty of being alive. But if you don't notice that

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you're part of the very thing that everything is made of,

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life can be terrified. Oh, movies. When my son was little,

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the Jim Carrey version of Grench came out, and if

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a preview for that movie came on, he would run screaming,

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burst into tears. We had to ask people when we'd

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go to movies back then, is there a preview for

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the Grinch? Now? Two years later, we took him to

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see The Grinch and at Christmas time, and he loved

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it because he understood enough about movies to not be

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terrified anymore.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's like when they played the first movie of

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the Train the edit. Yeah, yeah, it was Edison or

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the Miir brothers, one of the two.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, I've heard it. I've seen a clip.

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That's Lumir brother's train coming into the station.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, train coming into that's it. So the train's coming

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into the station and people ran out of the theater

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because they literally thought it was a train. They didn't

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understand anything. No one had ever seen anything like that,

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so it was terrifying for people. Now people are critiquing, oh,

387
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that's bad green screen, Oh the CGS, like, obviously they

388
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didn't they didn't need that proper software. There's gotten, it's gotten,

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it's gotten insane. So now people are completely jake the movies.

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But there was a moment where they were terrified of

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it and when it's and you can see it with

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young kids when they watch certain things like my My

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my kids. When I lived in Burbank, I would drive

394
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by the Warner the Warner lot, and in the war

395
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there was the ranch. The ranch a weren't a lot.

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The one down we were like walking distance from there. Okay,

397
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every time we drive by it. There was a Halloween

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Horror Nights big banner out in front, and it had

399
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penny Wise on it. H Nightmares. For weeks and weeks,

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they just knew enough that there was this thing called

401
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penny Wise, and they didn't know. And now they laugh

402
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at but now they're like, can we watch a horror movie?

403
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And they watched it, and they watched the show, and

404
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they watched all that stuff. But it's it's pretty. But

405
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with all that said, they still would watch it in

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the daytime with the lights.

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Speaker 2: They're not idiots. You did not raise fools. I understand, no,

408
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But this is the thing. Look, we because thought, you know,

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our brains are these amazing simulators, right, and they can

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create all these simulations that we call the past or

411
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the future or just utter fantasy, and we don't understand

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that we are the ones behind the simulation. So we

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get lost in the simulation and start to think that's

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our life, and we try to deal with things. But

415
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when people start to wake up to that there is

416
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this other dimension of life, this spiritual dimension of life,

417
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this formless dimension of life, and there is a feel

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to it, and you can be in that feeling while

419
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you are in the midst of the chaos. So you

420
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really can be in the world, but not of it,

421
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not in a rejecting the world kind of a way,

422
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but just recognizing that who you are is before the form,

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and then you can play in the form as if

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your life depended on it, knowing full well that it doesn't.

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Speaker 1: Michael, with everybody you've met and all the traveling you've

426
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done around the world, I'm sure and spoken around the

427
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world and probably met mystics, and.

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Speaker 2: I know I'm in six continents and I don't think

429
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I'm ever going to get to the seventh. I don't

430
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think there's any seminars to be done in the seventh in.

431
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Speaker 1: The Antarctica exactly. Well, as everything continues to warm up,

432
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there might be something maybe I don't know, there might

433
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be a Hilton opening up, there might be a hotel

434
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opening up soon.

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Speaker 2: I think I've still got points.

436
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Speaker 1: This is great. But with all that said, what what

437
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is the most profound spiritual experience you've had in all

438
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,559
of these travels and all these people you've met, have

439
00:25:15,599 --> 00:25:18,200
you had something that just rocked you to your core

440
00:25:18,279 --> 00:25:22,640
and gave you real, real evidence in your own mind

441
00:25:23,079 --> 00:25:25,880
that like, oh yeah, all this stuff I've been seeing

442
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and suspected I really have a feeling about now or

443
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has it always just been something?

444
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Speaker 2: I think it's been. I think it's just been a

445
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deepening with highlights. Like you know, I said at the

446
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beginning about how there's a basic course in an advanced course.

447
00:25:41,599 --> 00:25:46,880
I didn't get to, well, the advanced course is no, really, no,

448
00:25:47,079 --> 00:25:49,960
really it works this way. No, no, no, you really are

449
00:25:50,279 --> 00:25:52,279
made of this. No no, no, the world really is made

450
00:25:52,279 --> 00:25:55,279
of this. No. No thought really is creating a reality

451
00:25:55,319 --> 00:25:57,680
that once you're in that reality, what you do or

452
00:25:57,759 --> 00:25:59,799
don't do is kind of obvious because this is the

453
00:25:59,799 --> 00:26:01,960
world do you think you live in? So of course

454
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you aren't going to behave the way you behave. So

455
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for me, I can I can point to moments. I

456
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:13,359
remember being in Conquered, Massachusetts once and I walked into

457
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the park and just everything went and it just went

458
00:26:17,319 --> 00:26:21,599
completely quiet, and I couldn't tell you how long I

459
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:26,839
was there, but it was utter quiet, utter bliss. Everything

460
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up until that point that I was worried about look ridiculous.

461
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,480
I have a bunch of those. For me, the journey

462
00:26:34,519 --> 00:26:39,599
has been about letting it normalize so I'm not waiting

463
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,400
for the next big bang, so that it's part of

464
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,000
my ongoing experience. Even though it's not always dramatic. M

465
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You know, I can be functionally stoned most of the time.

466
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Speaker 1: Because that's what it's like.

467
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Speaker 2: You know, it's just like it is kind of trippy,

468
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:03,240
oh this, but it actually is not at conflict with

469
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,440
anything that we do. There's nowhere you can be that

470
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:13,039
spirit isn't there before you. There's no such thing as

471
00:27:13,079 --> 00:27:18,279
an unspiritual person and unspiritual situation and unspirit It's it

472
00:27:18,559 --> 00:27:22,279
just depends are you present to presence when you're there

473
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,119
or not presence there, but you might not notice.

474
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Speaker 1: Well, I have to I have to play devil's advocate, Michael.

475
00:27:28,759 --> 00:27:31,240
When you say every there's spirit in every their spirit

476
00:27:31,279 --> 00:27:33,680
and everybody, right, I agree with you one hundred and

477
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:35,960
ten percent. But I'm gonna play devil's advocate for someone

478
00:27:36,039 --> 00:27:37,240
watching right now who's gonna go.

479
00:27:37,279 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 2: Because I think the devil needs an advocate. I don't

480
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:40,319
think he's he's had.

481
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 1: He's he's had a rough go of it. His argument

482
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,519
is not nearly as good as Jesus. Uh so, no.

483
00:27:46,319 --> 00:27:48,519
Speaker 2: Now, why did you take the job? What's the paint? No? Sorry,

484
00:27:48,519 --> 00:27:50,240
I'm gonna go ask.

485
00:27:50,079 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 1: You a question exactly. That's my train of thought.

486
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:57,839
Speaker 2: My work here has done my work.

487
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,559
Speaker 1: I'm like you fried me, sir, You fried me over

488
00:28:00,599 --> 00:28:03,400
seven hundred conversations on this stuff, and I'm your fried me.

489
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 2: Okay, Devil's advocate. I said that everybody is made of spirits.

490
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: Okay, So someone's gonna say so, someone's gonna be watching this,

491
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,880
and I can see the comment being typed up as

492
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,359
we're speaking, which says, well, how can there be spirit

493
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:22,279
in rapists and serial killers and homicidal maniacs and Hitler

494
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,720
and Genghis Khan and all this? How can you see

495
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,200
spirit in those creatures? Because as a storyteller, you need

496
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:32,000
a villain, you need someone to to put That's how

497
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,240
people are controlled. There's always like you're having a tough life.

498
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,599
It's their fault. That's how wars start. Essentially, So what

499
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:40,599
do you what do you say to those people who are.

500
00:28:41,079 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 2: One of my One of the metaphors I use for consciousness,

501
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,200
which is sort of the basic presence. Spiritual presence is

502
00:28:48,319 --> 00:28:51,680
a mirror. So often the zen mystics will talk about

503
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,960
the lake doesn't mean to reflect the geese flying over it,

504
00:28:56,039 --> 00:28:59,039
the wild geese. It just it's just still, and so

505
00:28:59,079 --> 00:29:03,759
it reflects what's there. Now. Is a mirror any less

506
00:29:03,759 --> 00:29:08,599
a mirror if it reflects Hitler than if it reflects Gandhi?

507
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,440
Is it any less? Is it changed as a mirror

508
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,039
by reflecting a politician you like than by reflecting a

509
00:29:18,039 --> 00:29:23,519
politician you don't like. The mirror is unaffected by what

510
00:29:25,359 --> 00:29:30,680
goes on in it. So from a spiritual perspective, there's

511
00:29:30,759 --> 00:29:33,599
no less spirit than anyone, and there's no more spirit

512
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:38,519
than anyone. From a practical perspective, we live in movies.

513
00:29:38,559 --> 00:29:41,279
We live in a world of thought. And if my

514
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,920
thought created world involves everybody being an enemy and they're

515
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:51,279
not being enough, and everyone for themselves and the schemiest

516
00:29:51,359 --> 00:29:54,759
person wins, then I'm going to behave in some pretty

517
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,920
hideous ways. If I think my bad feelings are coming

518
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,119
from them, and if I do something to them it

519
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,640
will fix my feeling, then I'm going to do something

520
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,440
to them because of my misunderstanding, not because of a

521
00:30:08,519 --> 00:30:09,240
lack of spirit.

522
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: Will be right back after a word from our sponsor

523
00:30:17,119 --> 00:30:18,400
and now back to the show.

524
00:30:20,599 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 2: That doesn't make it okay, but it does make it understandable.

525
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:28,880
And it's when I see, when I can see the

526
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:34,359
difference between the spirit and someone and the behavior of

527
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,200
the form. I go in and I talk in prisons,

528
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,599
And to be honest, I don't want most of those

529
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,319
guys back out on the street anytime soon. But that

530
00:30:41,359 --> 00:30:44,079
doesn't mean that I don't see the light in their eyes.

531
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,920
It doesn't mean that a lot of them, not all

532
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,599
of them at all, A lot of them don't find

533
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,640
something that if they'd found it earlier, they would never

534
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,839
have done what they did that wound them up in prison.

535
00:30:58,599 --> 00:31:01,799
I'm not I'm not anti punishment. I'm not. I'm just

536
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:09,039
saying that it doesn't there's no version of reality where

537
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,519
the energy that all things are made of excludes something

538
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:15,519
that's profound.

539
00:31:16,559 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: Is profound. You're absolutely right. It's just the lake doesn't

540
00:31:20,799 --> 00:31:23,759
really care what flies over it. It's just going to

541
00:31:23,839 --> 00:31:24,880
reflect whatever's there.

542
00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 2: Now, that doesn't mean that doesn't mean that I don't

543
00:31:28,279 --> 00:31:34,599
care right, very different from a place of understanding than

544
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,799
from a right wrong, good bad. You know that world,

545
00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:41,480
We know how that world plays out. We've been playing

546
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,039
it out for five thousand plus years. It doesn't end

547
00:31:44,039 --> 00:31:47,359
well for anyone ever. I mean to the victor, go

548
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,880
the spoils until they lose, and then it flips, and

549
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:51,920
then it flips, and then it flips and then it flips.

550
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,039
Speaker 1: Its endless. It's endless.

551
00:31:53,079 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 2: The one game that that is the pullback you were

552
00:31:56,759 --> 00:32:00,599
talking about from contact that the one game is Oh,

553
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,920
at a fundamental level, we're all the same individually, so

554
00:32:06,039 --> 00:32:13,000
much cool difference, but it's a very different conversation. If

555
00:32:13,039 --> 00:32:17,240
I actually think I'm spiritual, you're an not or you're spiritual,

556
00:32:17,319 --> 00:32:19,839
I'm not. Then if I see, look, we're all made

557
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,119
of the same stuff. And it just turns out that

558
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,440
we really misunderstand where our experience comes from, and we

559
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,920
think it's coming from outside us, so we think we

560
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,000
need to control the outside to have a better experience.

561
00:32:32,119 --> 00:32:35,119
Speaker 1: Have you seen that clip on social media from Pete Holmes,

562
00:32:35,279 --> 00:32:36,720
the stand up comic about God?

563
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 2: Maybe because my son loves him, but I don't know

564
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:39,319
which one you mean.

565
00:32:39,839 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: He's saying. He's like, you know a lot of people

566
00:32:42,279 --> 00:32:46,960
say that God isn't real, you know, and so you

567
00:32:47,079 --> 00:32:50,119
either believe that God's this big guy, white guy in

568
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,759
the sky with a big beard, or you believe it's nothing. Now,

569
00:32:54,799 --> 00:32:56,640
you know what's crazy is to believe that there's a

570
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,240
guy in the sky with a beard. That's crazy. But

571
00:32:59,279 --> 00:33:04,039
you know what else is because believing in nothing, what

572
00:33:04,119 --> 00:33:08,640
happens to you when you die? Well, he goes, well nothing,

573
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,400
So when you die, nothing happens, so you return to

574
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:16,960
your creator. This is very good and no, no, and

575
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,720
he just keeps going on. It's this long bit and

576
00:33:19,759 --> 00:33:23,039
it was just so, but it's so. It's just a

577
00:33:23,079 --> 00:33:28,519
beautiful idea. He's approaching it from a comedic standpoint, but

578
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,319
his idea is very profound, and it mirrors to what

579
00:33:31,359 --> 00:33:35,200
you're just saying, no pun intended, it mirrors. It mirrors

580
00:33:35,359 --> 00:33:40,480
ideally what you're saying. That the positive, the negative that

581
00:33:40,519 --> 00:33:45,640
we that we attached to something is in many ways cultural.

582
00:33:45,759 --> 00:33:49,480
It's many ways based on country, based on society, based

583
00:33:49,519 --> 00:33:55,440
on community. Because this conversation, even as non woo woo

584
00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:00,240
as this is for many is we're talking is the

585
00:34:00,279 --> 00:34:04,160
work of the devil. Just this conversation not crazy. We're

586
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,440
not going crazy off the off the rails here. You know,

587
00:34:07,559 --> 00:34:09,840
in certain areas of the world, certain things that we

588
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:15,000
would consider illegal are legal and vice versa. You know,

589
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,679
you remember you can't like Amish women can can't show

590
00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:22,039
an ankle, well, you know, and neither can women over

591
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,920
in certain Middle Eastern countries. So it's it's fascinating to

592
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:31,599
me what we find right and wrong. It just varies

593
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:32,239
for me.

594
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:37,039
Speaker 2: There really does come back to if there is a

595
00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:40,519
right way to be, then our goal in life kind

596
00:34:40,519 --> 00:34:42,239
of has to be finding out what the right way

597
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,639
is and trying to follow it correct. There isn't a

598
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,280
right way to be and just an objectively right way

599
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,000
to be, then we've got to find a different nap system.

600
00:34:53,599 --> 00:34:56,760
And it's actually built into us. What what what? What?

601
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,000
I would I find that that people just don't realize

602
00:35:00,039 --> 00:35:04,519
as how well we're made as humans. Is our wanting.

603
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,679
I don't mean our lust are you know, crazy desires

604
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,639
for more, but our simple wanting like I want a sandwich.

605
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:17,599
That is how this intelligence guides us. So like a sunflower,

606
00:35:17,639 --> 00:35:21,000
it follows the light. We're made to follow this inner

607
00:35:21,039 --> 00:35:24,480
sense of direction. And so the question is is it

608
00:35:24,519 --> 00:35:25,840
good is it bad? And if it's good, I should

609
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,760
do it, and if it's bad, I shouldn't do it,

610
00:35:28,039 --> 00:35:31,199
Which just doesn't work it doesn't feel good and it

611
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,360
doesn't work, which is why I reject it no other reason.

612
00:35:35,559 --> 00:35:38,760
But if you check in and go, do I want

613
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,719
to like really like? Not I want to like just

614
00:35:43,199 --> 00:35:46,239
in an honest, settled way. Do I actually want to

615
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:52,039
that will guide you through anything? And there's only three answers, yes, no,

616
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,920
or I don't know. And I had a guy come.

617
00:35:56,599 --> 00:35:59,679
He was sent by one of the huge global asset companies,

618
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:01,360
and he was one of their top quants, and he

619
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,840
was absolute genius, and he was an absolute nightmare. And

620
00:36:05,039 --> 00:36:06,920
HR sent him as a last resort. They said, we're

621
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,920
either going to promote him or viral. Do your thing

622
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:15,079
right and and and he came in and he was

623
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,920
he was tightly wound. But he so he wrote down

624
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:21,679
on I keep a flip trating the office, and he

625
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:25,360
wrote down some fifty plus things, the decisions that he

626
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,559
was trying to make, and he was quantifying them all

627
00:36:27,599 --> 00:36:29,840
in terms as he did at work, in terms of

628
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,360
here are the variables, here the waiting of the variables.

629
00:36:32,639 --> 00:36:35,400
You know, if I moved to this place, school district

630
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,079
is more important than crime, but this is more important

631
00:36:38,079 --> 00:36:41,639
than this Jesus, And he went for like forty five minutes,

632
00:36:41,639 --> 00:36:44,239
and I am dizzy, like I'm just exhausted.

633
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,079
Speaker 1: I'm exhausted already, right.

634
00:36:46,599 --> 00:36:50,679
Speaker 2: And so I start talking him about, Look, that might

635
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,800
be great if you're predicting probabilities with numbers, but that's

636
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,079
not how we're made to live. We're made to follow

637
00:36:57,079 --> 00:37:01,400
a really simple inner knowing and in her sense of direction,

638
00:37:01,519 --> 00:37:04,920
a common sense. And he kind of argued with me

639
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:06,719
for a bit, but at some point we'd settled enough

640
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,559
that he was like, Okay, I get you're not a

641
00:37:08,599 --> 00:37:13,239
complete idiot. Let me at least listen to you. And

642
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,639
and so he said, well, you're really saying that I

643
00:37:15,679 --> 00:37:17,119
can look at every one of these things on my

644
00:37:17,159 --> 00:37:19,840
list and just go yes, no, I don't know, And

645
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,480
I said yeah. And he spent the next sort of

646
00:37:23,079 --> 00:37:25,559
I think thirty minutes and he went through every single

647
00:37:25,599 --> 00:37:29,880
thing do I want to yeah? This or this? This?

648
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,880
Do I want to know? And there were only like

649
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,400
three I don't knows on the whole list, and he

650
00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:38,079
got quieter and quieter. And I don't know if you've

651
00:37:38,079 --> 00:37:40,519
seen it, but like when people get settled, they get

652
00:37:40,559 --> 00:37:44,679
prettier answerer, like younger he did, like he was a

653
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,000
different guy, and at the end he went, right, I'm

654
00:37:47,039 --> 00:37:51,159
done now, full disclosure. They paid me for three days,

655
00:37:51,159 --> 00:37:53,119
and this was lunchtime on day one, and I was thinking,

656
00:37:53,159 --> 00:37:54,800
I don't want to give the money back. So I

657
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:56,239
kind of said to him, well, you know, I mean,

658
00:37:56,559 --> 00:37:57,880
I mean, you know, look, how about this.

659
00:38:00,119 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 1: She come back to me, that's just well.

660
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I was going to be a jerk about it,

661
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,599
but I also wanted to check, so I said, look,

662
00:38:07,079 --> 00:38:09,000
I get this has been huge for you. Why don't

663
00:38:09,039 --> 00:38:10,880
you come back in the morning tomorrow morning and if

664
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,519
you're still done, I'll take you to brunch, right and

665
00:38:13,559 --> 00:38:16,960
if not, we'll keep going. Wait can guy he was done,

666
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:22,079
comes in, he's like so clear, so present, and I

667
00:38:22,079 --> 00:38:23,559
took him to brunch. He went back. I get a

668
00:38:23,559 --> 00:38:25,960
call from HR at the company later in the week

669
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:27,800
and so what did you do to him? I said,

670
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:29,360
what do you mean, because I didn't know which way

671
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:34,119
it went, and and they said, he's a different guy said,

672
00:38:34,159 --> 00:38:37,800
he's so clear, he's so present. He's really easy to

673
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:39,960
get along with. And I tried to explain and she

674
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:41,760
was like, yeah, whatever you did, thank you, here keep

675
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:45,159
the money. But it was it was it's it's how

676
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,360
simple this can be, even though for most of this

677
00:38:48,519 --> 00:38:49,559
experience it isn't.

678
00:38:49,599 --> 00:38:52,519
Speaker 1: But Michael, so when you're explaining what this guy was doing,

679
00:38:53,119 --> 00:38:58,079
it sounds like, at least from my perspective, that there's

680
00:38:58,079 --> 00:39:01,360
a lot of fear. He was trying to control everything.

681
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,159
He was trying to quantify everything. He was trying to

682
00:39:04,199 --> 00:39:08,559
just like he was. That's a next level control freak,

683
00:39:09,519 --> 00:39:12,880
and he can hide behind the quantifications and like the

684
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,639
variables and all that stuff. It sounds it's fear to me.

685
00:39:16,079 --> 00:39:18,639
But when he let go, it's different.

686
00:39:19,039 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 2: It is fear. I'm just somebody sent me this quote

687
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,679
this morning and I thought, I knew I'm going to

688
00:39:23,679 --> 00:39:25,400
get this quote in somewhere. I'm getting it in with you.

689
00:39:25,559 --> 00:39:29,559
It's a mouji. If you do not trust life to unfold,

690
00:39:30,119 --> 00:39:32,639
the mind takes over and it becomes a game of

691
00:39:32,679 --> 00:39:38,119
strategy motivated by anxiety. This mistrust is unfair. Life has

692
00:39:38,159 --> 00:39:40,400
given us so much and yet we do not trust it.

693
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,400
And that's exactly it. But if you give me one

694
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,760
hundred people, you'll see that ninety nine of them are

695
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,480
motivated by fear, at least a big chunk at the time.

696
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 1: Most of us are, Yeah, well most of us are that.

697
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,280
Speaker 2: So it's really interesting to begin to move into the

698
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,559
possibility of a life that is driven by insecurity and.

699
00:40:02,519 --> 00:40:05,119
Speaker 1: Fear, but is an insecurity and fear in so many

700
00:40:05,159 --> 00:40:09,079
ways of defense mechanism to keep us alive, as opposed

701
00:40:09,079 --> 00:40:10,400
to generally.

702
00:40:10,079 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 2: Speaking, awareness of danger is the defense mechanism. Insecurity and

703
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,639
fear is the neurotic adaptation of that defense mechanism, of

704
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,920
that genuine awareness of danger that the mind does. It's

705
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:30,159
not that's no, it's normal, but it's not natural. Awareness

706
00:40:30,159 --> 00:40:32,840
of danger is natural, and the irony is that when

707
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,159
we're all up in our heads trying to calculate risk,

708
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,320
we're not actually present to the awareness of any actual

709
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:39,199
danger there might be.

710
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,519
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

711
00:40:47,119 --> 00:40:48,400
and now back to the show.

712
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,280
Speaker 2: I saw an interview with Alex Hanoald a couple of

713
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,199
weeks ago, you know, the after he climbed the tower,

714
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,320
which which was amazing, I mean, you know, and he

715
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,760
was talking about how he thought more people needed to

716
00:41:04,679 --> 00:41:07,559
it in some ways be in life threatening situations, and

717
00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:09,679
the interviewer is kind of like, you know why you're

718
00:41:09,679 --> 00:41:12,760
saying this, and yet he made this case he said, Look,

719
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,840
we've lost touch with actual fear. Actual fear is great,

720
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:22,519
sharpens the senses, keeps you alert, really presences you. He said,

721
00:41:23,079 --> 00:41:25,840
So we kind of busy our minds with this artificial

722
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,480
fear and it kind of keeps us in the state

723
00:41:28,559 --> 00:41:34,119
of Titan's autonomic arousal and it messes with us. That's

724
00:41:34,159 --> 00:41:37,760
actually not necessary to function while in the world awareness

725
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,320
of danger is, but that's built in.

726
00:41:39,639 --> 00:41:41,679
Speaker 1: But also back in the day, like he was saying,

727
00:41:42,559 --> 00:41:46,159
is that when you were out in the savannah hunting,

728
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,920
you were in a state of alertness all the time

729
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:51,760
because at any moment there could be a tiger.

730
00:41:52,119 --> 00:41:55,639
Speaker 2: But there's a difference between there's a difference between presence

731
00:41:55,639 --> 00:41:59,280
and fear. You can be alert, present and you are

732
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,960
aware of movement for mild around, or you can be

733
00:42:03,039 --> 00:42:04,880
in your head worrying about it and you're not aware

734
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,000
of the tiger that's right behind you. It's not really

735
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,239
behind you, Alex, don't worry, don't worry. I can see

736
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:11,039
it's not behind you.

737
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:16,519
Speaker 1: Okay, I just want to check how to get in

738
00:42:16,599 --> 00:42:20,159
here first of all. But that, but that kind of

739
00:42:20,199 --> 00:42:26,199
goes into a deeper conversation about what motivates us, and

740
00:42:26,199 --> 00:42:28,440
and how do you how do you control a large

741
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:31,280
populace fear? Fear's the easiest thing.

742
00:42:31,559 --> 00:42:34,639
Speaker 2: Look, sorry, if you're if anyone is listening to this

743
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,519
to learn how to control the masses, what I'm saying,

744
00:42:37,559 --> 00:42:41,519
do the opposite of everything I'm saying. Right, If you're

745
00:42:41,559 --> 00:42:45,239
actually interested in liberating yourself from that, then maybe have

746
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:45,639
a list.

747
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:51,599
Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely absolutely, because most of us, you know, every

748
00:42:51,679 --> 00:42:55,320
every aspect of our life has fear involved in it,

749
00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:01,760
constructed fear by marketing agencies, by religion, by governments, by

750
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:02,880
all of it.

751
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,119
Speaker 2: Is what's to talk on call I called Satan's Handbook

752
00:43:07,119 --> 00:43:10,960
of Hypnotic Marketing and and and it's and it's basically,

753
00:43:11,639 --> 00:43:14,960
tweak the insecure thinking of your potential client or customer

754
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:17,920
and then offer them relief in the form of your

755
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:18,840
product or service.

756
00:43:19,159 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's marketing one on one.

757
00:43:21,199 --> 00:43:25,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's also it isn't the only way. It's

758
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:27,519
just very very very popular.

759
00:43:27,599 --> 00:43:29,800
Speaker 1: Well because it's the it's the lowest hanging fruit.

760
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,079
Speaker 2: Right, So it's the lowest. So I sometimes talk about

761
00:43:32,159 --> 00:43:36,440
lowest common denominator marketing, highest comment and nominator marketing, and yeah,

762
00:43:36,519 --> 00:43:39,679
no question, lowist comment marketing works up to a point,

763
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,119
but it doesn't work. If what you're trying to do

764
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:47,079
is build trust, it doesn't really work. What you're trying

765
00:43:47,079 --> 00:43:52,239
to do is increase possibility. It just works to shift stuff.

766
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,159
And if that's what you consider your job to be, yeah,

767
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:56,760
go for it.

768
00:43:57,039 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 1: I think there has been a backlash against this more

769
00:44:02,519 --> 00:44:04,960
and more now. People are things that you and I

770
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,360
grew up with would Obviously there's many things that you

771
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,599
and I grew up with would never pass a day

772
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:10,440
this world.

773
00:44:10,559 --> 00:44:12,679
Speaker 2: I know, I sometimes watch eighties television and go, oh

774
00:44:12,679 --> 00:44:13,719
my god, we watched that.

775
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: Oh my, oh my god, she's some of the things

776
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,559
that were said and done. I'm like, oh good lord,

777
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:26,559
it's insane. But but on the on the marketing side,

778
00:44:27,199 --> 00:44:31,159
you know, there's things that that were you know, how

779
00:44:31,159 --> 00:44:35,519
we were marketed to growing up that isn't working as

780
00:44:35,599 --> 00:44:38,719
much anymore. Now there is a different flavor of it

781
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,639
with like a lot of the TikTok and and Instagram

782
00:44:41,639 --> 00:44:45,920
and social media influencers that are still Instead of the

783
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,800
fear of like you're not good enough, it kind of

784
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,280
leans on that and it's like, well, if you don't

785
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,320
do what I'm doing or buy the product I'm doing,

786
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,440
you're not gonna be cool enough. And there's a different

787
00:44:55,519 --> 00:44:57,079
version of that. It's just different kind of.

788
00:44:57,079 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 2: Well, it's the same thing. It's still tweaking the insecure

789
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,519
thinking of potential client or customer's.

790
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 1: But you're not right. But you're not going to connect

791
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,480
to that on a deep level. So in other words,

792
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:13,559
watching a Super Bowl Budweiser commercial where two bikini clad

793
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:19,719
girls fight in a fountain over a Budweiser, I'll send

794
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:22,320
you a link right away, sir. That's an actual that's

795
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,639
an actual commercial. That's an actual that was an actual

796
00:45:25,639 --> 00:45:27,320
commercial for I never forgot it because I was a

797
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,599
young man when I saw it. But that doesn't build

798
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,400
a real connection with the product where people are looking

799
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:38,800
for authentic connections now. So there is a backlash to

800
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:40,800
that kind of stuff now, and there might still be

801
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,360
tweakings of all that. But I feel that the brands

802
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:48,000
and the companies and even the institutions who are becoming

803
00:45:48,079 --> 00:45:54,320
more leaning more towards this positive reinforcing the good and

804
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,800
things where people are starting to search for.

805
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 2: Well, we have a sort of a policy in our

806
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,880
marketing where there's a company in the in the UK

807
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,480
called wrong seal and it's it's a celant for decks

808
00:46:08,159 --> 00:46:11,519
and and their their motto is a run seal. It

809
00:46:11,559 --> 00:46:15,280
does exactly what it says on the tin. And and

810
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:20,519
that's what's awesome, is like there should be no gap

811
00:46:20,679 --> 00:46:22,920
between what we say is on offer and what's on offer.

812
00:46:23,559 --> 00:46:26,440
And now somebody could come along and go, yeah, but

813
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:27,840
you could make so much more if you did this,

814
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:31,360
And yeah, maybe I don't actually even believe it's true

815
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:33,239
because so much of our audience has been with me

816
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:37,599
for years because they know that it does exactly what

817
00:46:37,639 --> 00:46:41,320
it says on the ten. Maybe for one off customers

818
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:45,159
not so much. But I'm looking for people who want

819
00:46:45,199 --> 00:46:47,199
to be a part of this for as long as

820
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:48,960
they want to be a part of it. I'm not

821
00:46:49,039 --> 00:46:51,559
looking for Okay, let me run through as many of

822
00:46:51,559 --> 00:46:53,119
them as I can, as quickly as I can.

823
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 1: With all the clients and people you've worked with over

824
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,760
the years, what do you what do people spend years

825
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,159
trying to fix that we're never was never really broken

826
00:47:01,199 --> 00:47:01,679
within them?

827
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 2: Well, I think probably the biggest one is themselves. Right.

828
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:10,360
People just are so sure there's something wrong with them

829
00:47:10,599 --> 00:47:12,719
and have so much evidence and can tell me so

830
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:18,840
many stories that and they think, I just need one

831
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,199
more thing. Maybe this person has the answer. Maybe this

832
00:47:21,199 --> 00:47:23,119
person has the answer. Maybe this person has the answer,

833
00:47:23,119 --> 00:47:25,519
and for a little while it feels like they that

834
00:47:25,559 --> 00:47:28,480
person did have the answer, because the actual answer is

835
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:33,199
when I'm not thinking about it, it's not a problem.

836
00:47:33,639 --> 00:47:35,519
So if you give me an answer and I stop

837
00:47:35,599 --> 00:47:37,880
thinking about it, it won't be a problem and I'll

838
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,719
feel so much better. But then at some point I'm

839
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:42,719
going to start thinking about it again, and I'm not

840
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,360
going to realize that's why it's become a problem again,

841
00:47:46,639 --> 00:47:50,719
and the cycle continues. So one of the biggest shifts

842
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,320
that people make, and that I work with people to make,

843
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:59,320
is to really see that but for unrecognized thinking about

844
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:03,960
who we are, you're freaking amazing. Now I'm not saying

845
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,400
you can't also be a mess. I mean pretty much

846
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,519
everyone I know is both. But we're obsessed with the

847
00:48:10,599 --> 00:48:15,079
mess and we miss the amazing bit. And it's not like, oh, think,

848
00:48:15,519 --> 00:48:19,360
think better things about yourself. Here's probably the quote. This

849
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:20,920
is a quote at the front of my new book,

850
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,679
which is not yet, it's not fully written yet, but

851
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:27,519
it's it's if you drop your ego, your image, of

852
00:48:27,559 --> 00:48:30,039
self importance. So by ego, it just means your self image,

853
00:48:30,199 --> 00:48:32,519
the way you think about yourself. If you drop your ego,

854
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:37,159
your image of self importance, and just be you, whoever

855
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:40,559
that is, you'll find the secret to heaven. Here on earth.

856
00:48:41,199 --> 00:48:43,360
You'll discover that you're not who you think you are.

857
00:48:44,079 --> 00:48:50,280
You're something nicer, far better, really nice. And so when

858
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:54,599
we start to actually experience and identify with who we

859
00:48:54,719 --> 00:49:01,800
really are, everything starts working better. Our intelligence comes online

860
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,679
in a whole different way, our creativity comes online in

861
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,320
a whole different way. We still have crazy movies in

862
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,519
our head, but they look like movies, and so we're

863
00:49:10,559 --> 00:49:13,519
not impacted by them in the same way. We still

864
00:49:13,599 --> 00:49:18,320
have nutty thinking, but it looks like nutty thinking. I

865
00:49:19,079 --> 00:49:22,039
used to say, I think it's not politically correct, but

866
00:49:22,039 --> 00:49:24,440
I don't think it's that bad. Like if you're drunk,

867
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:27,760
but you know that you're drunk, you're not that drunk, right,

868
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,960
If you're if you're really in your head, but you

869
00:49:31,079 --> 00:49:32,840
know you're really in your head, you're not that in

870
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:33,280
your head.

871
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:35,639
Speaker 1: It's right.

872
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:40,039
Speaker 2: It really is game changing to start to see, oh god,

873
00:49:40,079 --> 00:49:42,639
I am not all the madness that goes on in here.

874
00:49:43,159 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 1: If you're questioning it, you're not really that deep into

875
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,159
your head. If you're not questioning it, you're gone.

876
00:49:47,519 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 2: Well, right, and then you're gone, So there's nothing to

877
00:49:49,519 --> 00:49:52,559
do about it anyways. Right, It's it's you.

878
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 1: Know, until you start to realize it.

879
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, but this endless chase to fix it when you've

880
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:03,360
never actually seen it, it's it's never gonna work. You.

881
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:05,519
There's no such thing as a solution to a feeling,

882
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,039
and yet that's where almost everybody is chasing.

883
00:50:10,639 --> 00:50:13,119
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

884
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:21,280
and now back to the show. Why do we feel

885
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:22,119
that we're not enough?

886
00:50:22,519 --> 00:50:25,760
Speaker 2: Well, I think there's two reasons. One is we've been

887
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:29,519
told you're not enough, explicit you. But but it's back

888
00:50:29,559 --> 00:50:31,559
to it's in the water, it's in the furniture, it's

889
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,280
it's if you look around, everybody seems to be having

890
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:35,199
a better life.

891
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 1: Than you now more than ever. Jeez, what Instagram, So.

892
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:42,559
Speaker 2: Of course, and they're subtly and sometimes not so slily

893
00:50:42,639 --> 00:50:46,239
intimating that it's because you're not enough. Now, I've met

894
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:47,639
a lot of these people. You've met a lot of

895
00:50:47,639 --> 00:50:52,159
these people there. They're just as messy as everybody.

896
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:53,280
Speaker 1: Else, every single one of them.

897
00:50:53,599 --> 00:50:58,039
Speaker 2: So it's it's it's a it's just again it's the

898
00:50:58,119 --> 00:51:00,320
blind leading the blind. You know, there's that saying that

899
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:05,719
in the in the Kingdom of the Blind, the one one. Yeah, right,

900
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,280
so so so if you don't even need to be

901
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,719
that awake to have a huge advantage in the.

902
00:51:11,639 --> 00:51:14,800
Speaker 1: World, that's a that's a powerful statement that you don't

903
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:18,719
have to be that awake, even because everyone thinks that, oh,

904
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,039
I have to be Buddha, you have to be Christ

905
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,280
you know, I have to have to have be a

906
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:24,280
guru somewhere.

907
00:51:24,599 --> 00:51:27,079
Speaker 2: It's looking like it's like the old joke about you know,

908
00:51:27,559 --> 00:51:29,760
you know, you know, you're you're with a group of

909
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:31,960
campers and you come across a bear. How are you

910
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:33,880
going to get away from the bear? You don't have

911
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,280
to outrun the bear, You just have to outrun your buddies,

912
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:37,199
right Like.

913
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:39,679
Speaker 1: It's the slowest you have to run the slowest runner

914
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:40,159
in the group.

915
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,679
Speaker 2: That's a terrible spiritual analogy. But it's not. But it's

916
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:48,920
not like it is. Really if you even start to

917
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:54,679
glimpse how much of your struggle and suffering is happening

918
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,760
up here and not out there. If you even begin

919
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:01,400
to to sense every now and a again that when

920
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:07,719
you get really quiet, something more comes through you. You're

921
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:09,679
way ahead of the game. And then if you really

922
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:13,079
start to see it, if you start to self realize

923
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:20,199
just how amazing you actually are. But again, no different

924
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:24,199
to anybody else, just it's different because you notice it.

925
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,320
Then life becomes a very different game. And that's where

926
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,760
that happy success. I'm not saying everyone who is happy

927
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,440
and successful was self realized, but I am saying that

928
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,360
they had elements of it where they saw through, They

929
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:41,039
got over themselves more quickly. They could see through the

930
00:52:41,119 --> 00:52:44,039
ego and the image and all of that, and they

931
00:52:44,079 --> 00:52:46,280
could navigate it pretty well.

932
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 1: I have to believe that at a certain point in

933
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:53,159
your career. You've worked a lot of people in Hollywood

934
00:52:53,159 --> 00:52:56,480
and musicians and people in the entertainment field. I've known

935
00:52:56,519 --> 00:52:59,840
many of them who won Oscars and won the Top

936
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:02,079
of the Top and the biggest movies in the world

937
00:53:02,159 --> 00:53:03,760
and all that kind of stuff, and they're some of

938
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:07,519
the most miserable people I know that, just absolutely. One

939
00:53:07,679 --> 00:53:10,800
One guy even said, like after I got the Oscar

940
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:12,480
and like I didn't know what to do with my life.

941
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:14,760
Speaker 2: It's actually in my experience.

942
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 1: It's not exactly, it's not, it's very It's that's why

943
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:24,599
I love Jim Carrey's awakening. I adore I adore Jim

944
00:53:24,599 --> 00:53:26,360
and Jim if you're watching, please come on the show

945
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:28,559
anytime you want, Sir, because.

946
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 2: His Grinch costume, because my kid is scared.

947
00:53:31,039 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 1: Obviously, not in the Grinch costume obviously.

948
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:36,320
Speaker 2: So he's probably not scared anymore.

949
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,760
Speaker 1: But you know, but hey, that's could be triggering, sir.

950
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,280
But Jim was so powerful because he's come out so

951
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:49,719
publicly about his spiritual awakening and and he's he's put

952
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,519
his money where his mouth is in many ways. But

953
00:53:52,639 --> 00:53:56,639
he says, I wish everybody could get everything they ever

954
00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:02,719
wanted so they could realize it means nothing and it's easy.

955
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:04,719
If you and I say that, it'd be like, yeah,

956
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:05,519
that's kind of nice.

957
00:54:06,079 --> 00:54:06,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

958
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 1: Well, but Jim was the biggest movie star in the world,

959
00:54:09,559 --> 00:54:12,960
had everything anybody in that field could have ever wanted.

960
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,719
And he was like, yeah, this is, this is But you.

961
00:54:16,679 --> 00:54:18,800
Speaker 2: Know what I have found because I've been doing this

962
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:20,519
for a long time as much as anything. I mean,

963
00:54:21,039 --> 00:54:23,159
it's thirty five plus years, not been working at any

964
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:27,800
the easiest people to work with in the sense that

965
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:30,880
they see this the quickest are the incredibly successful or

966
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:35,480
wealthy and the incredibly down drawn, because both of them

967
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:37,440
have realized they're not going to find what they're looking

968
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:41,519
for in the world. Oh, the extremes, the extremes, it's

969
00:54:41,559 --> 00:54:42,960
all of us in the middle to think, yeah, but

970
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:44,440
if I just get one more award, if I just

971
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:46,159
get a little more money, if I just get one

972
00:54:46,199 --> 00:54:49,119
more level of success, then I know it. But it's

973
00:54:49,159 --> 00:54:53,800
like at the extremes, people are very receptive to it

974
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,119
because they've already figured out it's not going to happen

975
00:54:56,119 --> 00:55:00,719
out there. And that's why I hud the inside out understanding,

976
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:02,920
because when you start to see how it actually works,

977
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,920
you're not waiting for your circumstances, and you can often

978
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:11,480
create some pretty cool circumstances. And what I love is this,

979
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:13,519
This program could have been recorded one hundred and fifty

980
00:55:13,599 --> 00:55:15,320
years ago and that would still be true.

981
00:55:15,559 --> 00:55:20,039
Speaker 1: But yeah, go ahead, yes, but one hundred and fifty

982
00:55:20,119 --> 00:55:22,440
years ago, we weren't as aware of everything that was

983
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:24,599
going on. We didn't know that if there was a

984
00:55:24,599 --> 00:55:26,960
war going on three or four miles down the road,

985
00:55:28,039 --> 00:55:30,400
because we didn't have we didn't know. But now we're

986
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:34,000
so overly connected. You know, before it was you know,

987
00:55:34,159 --> 00:55:38,039
radio and movies, radio, television, and now we have internet

988
00:55:38,039 --> 00:55:41,880
and social media that I know, when you know something

989
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:45,480
happens on the other side of the world, instantly as

990
00:55:45,519 --> 00:55:48,119
it's happening, you're find so you feel this kind of

991
00:55:48,119 --> 00:55:51,719
bombardment of all these craziness things happened. But with it,

992
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:53,960
With that said, I think that was happening one hundred

993
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,119
and fifty years ago is not happening today, where a

994
00:55:57,159 --> 00:56:01,840
lot of our preconceived ideas of what but institutions were,

995
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:07,199
what the world was like, what the truth was, is

996
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:11,960
completely crumpling. You know, we got a taste of it

997
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:15,239
in the America, got a taste of it in the

998
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:18,719
in the seventies with Nixon. That was the first time

999
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:22,199
that we're like, we were disillusioned a bit with like,

1000
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:23,639
I wait a minute, what.

1001
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:26,679
Speaker 2: I think some of my friends from the Civil War

1002
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:28,239
might disagree with you about yourself?

1003
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:30,719
Speaker 1: Well no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no saying

1004
00:56:31,119 --> 00:56:33,880
I agree with you one hundred percent, I'm saying in

1005
00:56:34,039 --> 00:56:39,000
modern or modern times, no no, all right, oh no,

1006
00:56:39,159 --> 00:56:40,000
we can't go back to that.

1007
00:56:41,559 --> 00:56:43,760
Speaker 3: Well, listen, we could go back to the Pilgrims, all right,

1008
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:44,199
if you like it.

1009
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, there's always craziness happening. There's always things.

1010
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:53,039
You know, it was on our side exactly, those damn

1011
00:56:53,079 --> 00:56:57,320
Aztecs with the blood sacrifices. No, there's always something going on,

1012
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:02,119
but there seems to be a lot more like perfect example, Man,

1013
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:06,760
I always raised Catholic. The Catholic Church was an infallible,

1014
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:14,079
infallible institution, the vaticant infallible. Obviously, a few things have

1015
00:57:14,079 --> 00:57:16,639
happened over the last few decades that has shined a

1016
00:57:16,639 --> 00:57:21,519
different light on that. The pharmaceutical industry, the food industry,

1017
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:26,400
the government in general, all these things that were sometimes

1018
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,519
some of it was conspiracy theories all of a sudden

1019
00:57:29,559 --> 00:57:31,880
are now coming out going, nah, they were kind of right.

1020
00:57:32,199 --> 00:57:35,039
So Bigfoot, Bigfoot should be Bigfoot should be riding in

1021
00:57:35,039 --> 00:57:35,400
on the lock.

1022
00:57:35,519 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 2: This monster ed come on a UFO edited he Well,

1023
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:42,639
he's with the tiger that's behind you.

1024
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 1: But with all so this, that's what I'm saying that

1025
00:57:48,559 --> 00:57:51,320
now this is added, and I'm curious to hear your

1026
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:55,639
thoughts on this. It's added a different level of crazy

1027
00:57:56,559 --> 00:58:01,239
or instability in our psyche. Things that we thought were

1028
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:08,199
foundational are now being shaken, and that happens to that that's.

1029
00:58:08,039 --> 00:58:12,760
Speaker 2: As a surpris I think that is breathtakingly healthy. I

1030
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:16,360
think it's one of the best possibly happen because as

1031
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:19,480
long as we are trying to find our stability in

1032
00:58:19,559 --> 00:58:25,920
the outside world, in another person and institution, anything, the

1033
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:29,880
world of form by nature is crumbly. Things come and go.

1034
00:58:30,119 --> 00:58:34,039
That which is born dies. We know that ashes to ashes,

1035
00:58:34,119 --> 00:58:38,760
dust to dust. So when we finally stop trying to

1036
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:43,599
find our solid ground in the form, there's really only

1037
00:58:43,639 --> 00:58:46,559
one other place to go, and it's back inside and

1038
00:58:46,679 --> 00:58:51,079
that shift back to spirit, back to just pure spirit,

1039
00:58:51,199 --> 00:58:55,800
not any particular form it takes, but the formless reality

1040
00:58:55,920 --> 00:59:01,119
out of which all form comes. That's a ironically given

1041
00:59:01,119 --> 00:59:03,199
that it has no form that's as close to solid

1042
00:59:03,239 --> 00:59:07,199
ground as there is in the universe. So while obviously

1043
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:11,760
it can be very disruptive and it's easy to get

1044
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:14,840
caught up in very scary thinking about what this means

1045
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:17,840
about the future and what this means about this, the

1046
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:21,559
actual reality of it, if it points people back inside,

1047
00:59:22,159 --> 00:59:23,800
is one of the best things could happen for the

1048
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:24,920
evolution of humanity.

1049
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 1: And I think that's exactly what's happening now. People are

1050
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:30,519
being you know, twenty twenty was that first year that

1051
00:59:30,559 --> 00:59:33,719
everyone had to stop and everyone had to look inside

1052
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:36,440
and your phone probably was ringing off the hook back then.

1053
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:39,719
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it was so it was so weird.

1054
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:41,840
We went in the space of less than a month,

1055
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:43,320
we went from thinking we were going to go out

1056
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:45,519
of business to realizing that we were going to double

1057
00:59:45,559 --> 00:59:47,719
our business. And one of my clients actually said, you

1058
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:52,519
went from being a luxury yacht to a lifeboat. Oh

1059
00:59:52,719 --> 00:59:55,199
so we actually just opened our doors. We just opened

1060
00:59:55,239 --> 00:59:58,079
up our memberships for free to everyone, and so many

1061
00:59:58,119 --> 01:00:00,000
new people came in. And then when it was done

1062
01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:02,360
and we start charging again, a lot of them left.

1063
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:05,760
But some of them say, and that was fine, Like

1064
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:12,559
that didn't that didn't strike me as problematic. It's I am.

1065
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:18,000
I have so much faith in the human spirit and

1066
01:00:18,199 --> 01:00:22,440
in the intelligence of life, and sometimes I don't like

1067
01:00:22,519 --> 01:00:26,039
the way it's going either, But I don't think that

1068
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:28,559
changing the way it's going is going to fix it.

1069
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:32,840
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,

1070
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:37,719
and now back to the show.

1071
01:00:40,159 --> 01:00:43,199
Speaker 2: I think until people start to wake up to this

1072
01:00:43,239 --> 01:00:46,280
deeper dimension, of life. It's still going to feel like

1073
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:50,320
I got to stop the people who are causing my problems.

1074
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:53,639
Of course I did. When I start to see that's

1075
01:00:53,679 --> 01:00:57,000
not the way the universe works, very different things make

1076
01:00:57,079 --> 01:00:57,760
sense to me to do.

1077
01:00:58,239 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 1: Do you believe that we're so caught up?

1078
01:01:00,079 --> 01:01:00,199
Speaker 2: Been?

1079
01:01:00,199 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 1: The illusion that things are actually solid and that things

1080
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:09,559
don't change is the great, one of the great illusions

1081
01:01:09,599 --> 01:01:14,039
of humanity, because you know, as you as we've gotten older,

1082
01:01:14,559 --> 01:01:16,199
things that we didn't think about in our twenties, we

1083
01:01:16,239 --> 01:01:19,719
thought about in our fifties and in our sixties because

1084
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:21,559
we didn't think it would ever catch up to us. Oh,

1085
01:01:21,559 --> 01:01:23,480
I've been smoking for the last twenty years, and all

1086
01:01:23,519 --> 01:01:24,599
of a sudden, like what.

1087
01:01:24,639 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 2: My nobody told me that would be a problem.

1088
01:01:27,519 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, there was a smoking section of

1089
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:34,679
the airplane. I don't understand. But everything's so slow in change.

1090
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:37,679
You obviously, one day, I know this happened. I'm sure

1091
01:01:37,679 --> 01:01:39,239
this happened to you. One day you just wake up

1092
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:40,800
and you look in the mirror and you're like, who

1093
01:01:41,199 --> 01:01:44,599
is this guy? Like where did this guy come from?

1094
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:47,960
The guys the guy that I see in my brain,

1095
01:01:48,039 --> 01:01:51,639
he's twenty something and he's like jumping and doing things,

1096
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,639
and then does this ever happen to You'm like, you

1097
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:58,440
forgot that you're your age, and you do and you

1098
01:01:58,559 --> 01:02:01,800
do something horribly wrong physically, like you're like, I think

1099
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:04,119
I can make that jump. I think I could I

1100
01:02:04,119 --> 01:02:07,360
could do that, And all of a sudden you're just like, oh, no,

1101
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:12,840
son of I forgot. Yeah, here, up here, we're still

1102
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:13,960
young man up here.

1103
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:17,519
Speaker 2: No, No, I know, I know what you mean. Occasionally

1104
01:02:17,559 --> 01:02:19,199
I see a picture of me and go, oh, who's

1105
01:02:19,199 --> 01:02:22,519
that old guy with my wife? You know, but you know,

1106
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:24,719
he seems nice.

1107
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:29,239
Speaker 1: I'm glad you found someone. Uh, me too.

1108
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:30,159
Speaker 2: It's been a long time.

1109
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 1: But but even I forgot what we were talking about

1110
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:40,000
because I'm for this is a good differ.

1111
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 2: You might it, but I'm doing great.

1112
01:02:45,679 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 1: Will err it, sir, don't worry, We'll hear it. But

1113
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:53,400
it's it's just it's just kind of fascinating how we

1114
01:02:53,519 --> 01:02:57,239
forget that we're all gonna die. Nobody wants to talk

1115
01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:01,199
about it, but we're all it's a process. It's constantly.

1116
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:06,480
The universe is secular, The the ex just the reality

1117
01:03:06,679 --> 01:03:10,079
is that you know ourselves are dying and being reborn

1118
01:03:10,159 --> 01:03:11,360
every second of every day.

1119
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:15,039
Speaker 2: I think there's a couple of levels that it's worth

1120
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:18,960
looking at that problem. Please, this thing, this body thing

1121
01:03:19,519 --> 01:03:21,960
definitely going to die, no question about it. I don't

1122
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:25,639
even the really cool people doing really cool things on TikTok.

1123
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:32,199
This thing's going right. The brain thing, which is part

1124
01:03:32,199 --> 01:03:35,719
of this thing, that's that's that's that's going to wear out.

1125
01:03:37,559 --> 01:03:42,920
But we are not our bodies. We have bodies. I

1126
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:45,199
was trying to explain this to somebody, a young kid

1127
01:03:45,199 --> 01:03:47,679
who's a gamer, the other day, and I was like,

1128
01:03:48,119 --> 01:03:50,280
he was talking about Spider Man Far from Home, the

1129
01:03:50,639 --> 01:03:52,760
video game, and which I think is a great game.

1130
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:55,360
So so I was going, like, when you're playing that game, right,

1131
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:59,039
you're you're you're you're Spider Man, right, Yeah, but you

1132
01:03:59,079 --> 01:04:03,760
do know that Spider Man, it's not you, right, So yeah,

1133
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:07,559
I am my body, but my body's not me. I

1134
01:04:07,599 --> 01:04:10,920
have a body. So I don't know what happens when

1135
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:15,800
the body dies. But but but for me, it is

1136
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:18,199
helpful to know that the body's going to wear out

1137
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:21,519
because I'll treat it differently and care for it differently

1138
01:04:21,559 --> 01:04:25,239
and use it differently. But it's not actually all that

1139
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:28,360
helpful to think that when the body goes that's it.

1140
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:30,880
I don't know whether it's it or not. I have

1141
01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:36,000
no insider information, but I know that there's a wonderful

1142
01:04:36,039 --> 01:04:40,199
line from William Blake. I see through my eyes, not

1143
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:46,840
with them. The presence that we are definitely transcends the

1144
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:51,320
physical form that we're in. That I know, don't I

1145
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:52,599
don't pretend to know beyond that?

1146
01:04:53,559 --> 01:04:56,960
Speaker 1: Isn't it perfect in the grand scheme of this entire

1147
01:04:57,079 --> 01:05:01,079
experiment that we're all in, if you will, this reality

1148
01:05:01,199 --> 01:05:04,199
that there is an expiration date, because if there wasn't,

1149
01:05:04,239 --> 01:05:07,840
if we were vampires and there was no end in sight,

1150
01:05:08,599 --> 01:05:08,880
I no.

1151
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:15,239
Speaker 2: What do you mean we?

1152
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 1: But if we were mythical creatures who did not die.

1153
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:23,199
I think about that sometimes, as one does. And I'm

1154
01:05:23,239 --> 01:05:24,800
not to be a vampire, but just like, you know, what,

1155
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:27,159
what if I was around for another couple hundred years?

1156
01:05:27,199 --> 01:05:32,000
Because in the Bible and in many in many spiritual texts,

1157
01:05:32,719 --> 01:05:38,360
long life is a given. Moses was nine hundred. Yeah,

1158
01:05:38,559 --> 01:05:41,119
Baba Jean is still two hundred and fifty to twenty

1159
01:05:41,119 --> 01:05:43,920
five hundred years old walking around the MLAA somewhere right now.

1160
01:05:44,679 --> 01:05:49,000
So there is precedent for that. But I can't even

1161
01:05:49,039 --> 01:05:51,719
wrap my head around it, because if I was going

1162
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:53,679
to be alive for another three or four hundred years,

1163
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,440
that and nobody else, by the way, nobody else around

1164
01:05:56,480 --> 01:06:00,719
you is going to have that privilege. That's the key. Yeah,

1165
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:02,480
if your kids, you're gonna watch your kids die, You're

1166
01:06:02,519 --> 01:06:05,320
gonna watch your grandkids die. You're gonna watch your great

1167
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:09,920
grandkids die. That's I can't even And everything that you

1168
01:06:10,039 --> 01:06:14,800
know is gonna change constantly. I can't even imagine psychologically

1169
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:17,480
what that would do to a human being. So it

1170
01:06:17,519 --> 01:06:18,519
is helpful that you're going to die.

1171
01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:22,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it would be messy, But I also

1172
01:06:22,559 --> 01:06:28,159
think that that not knowing is part of the fun, right,

1173
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:33,159
Like you know, there's my favorite theory about enlightenment, like

1174
01:06:33,199 --> 01:06:36,239
why some people get enlightened and others don't is is

1175
01:06:37,199 --> 01:06:41,159
everyone gets enlightened in their ten thousandth lifetime. So you

1176
01:06:41,199 --> 01:06:43,039
know whether or not it's your ten thousandth lifetime, because

1177
01:06:43,039 --> 01:06:44,679
if you're not enlightened, it isn't and if you are,

1178
01:06:44,719 --> 01:06:48,599
it is sure. But the reason that I like that

1179
01:06:48,679 --> 01:06:52,119
as a theory is because there's no point in striving

1180
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:52,639
for it.

1181
01:06:54,119 --> 01:06:56,440
Speaker 1: That's a theory and so and.

1182
01:06:56,320 --> 01:06:58,679
Speaker 2: So the thing it's the same thing with long life.

1183
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:02,000
You know, I wish anyone who want it long life, sure,

1184
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:04,719
and if it's in the cards, you'll have it. And

1185
01:07:04,719 --> 01:07:06,719
if it isn't in the cards, no matter what you do,

1186
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:10,400
you won't. So yeah, to me, it makes a lot

1187
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:12,880
of sense to take care of this thing. But it

1188
01:07:13,239 --> 01:07:15,840
doesn't make sense to kill myself trying to make myself.

1189
01:07:15,559 --> 01:07:19,679
Speaker 1: Live longer, beautifully said, my friend beautifully said. If there

1190
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:22,639
was one spiritual insight that the world needs to hear

1191
01:07:22,760 --> 01:07:25,320
right now, or one concept, one idea that the world

1192
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:28,159
needs to hear right now, what would it be.

1193
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:32,400
Speaker 2: If they could actually hear it? But as in it

1194
01:07:33,159 --> 01:07:37,880
would land. For me, it would be be still and

1195
01:07:38,039 --> 01:07:44,320
know that you are God, that you are this the

1196
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:47,719
same energy that animated the Buddha, that animated the Christ,

1197
01:07:47,719 --> 01:07:52,679
that animated all the great spiritual teachers. You are that.

1198
01:07:54,920 --> 01:07:59,480
And and then you think. And because you think and

1199
01:07:59,519 --> 01:08:02,159
you're thinking, looks real to you. It's very easy to

1200
01:08:02,159 --> 01:08:05,760
get lost in the movie. But if you see those

1201
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:08,920
two things, you'll do fine. In fact, you'll do a

1202
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:10,079
lot better than fine.

1203
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:13,519
Speaker 1: You know. One of my favorite quotes from Yogananda, the

1204
01:08:13,559 --> 01:08:16,800
great mystic, Who's behind not the tiger, but he's actually

1205
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:23,359
right behind me. He says, like life is but the movies.

1206
01:08:23,840 --> 01:08:26,760
And when you're watching a movie, you see death and

1207
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:29,800
violence and happy and joys and all of it, and

1208
01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:32,199
you get wrapped up in the movie. He goes, because

1209
01:08:32,199 --> 01:08:34,680
your attention is on the movie, which you really need

1210
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:37,239
to be focusing on is where is the light coming from?

1211
01:08:38,039 --> 01:08:40,720
Where is the life from the projector coming from? That

1212
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:43,479
is where your focus should be. I thought, there's such

1213
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:48,880
a profound kind of idea and concept. It's the allegory

1214
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:49,279
of the cave.

1215
01:08:49,359 --> 01:08:53,319
Speaker 2: Essentially, it's totally the allegory of the cave. But for me,

1216
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:57,640
the other half of that is, we don't go to

1217
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:00,960
the movies to keep telling everybody around us, Hey, you know,

1218
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:03,560
it's just a movie, look at the light. We go

1219
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:06,479
to the movies to get lost in it. So I

1220
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:10,800
think if those two things combine, the realization of the

1221
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:15,359
light but the ability to still enjoy the movie, that

1222
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:17,800
to me is what's on offer here on earth. That's

1223
01:09:18,319 --> 01:09:21,159
that's what's on offer in a life well lived. Right.

1224
01:09:21,199 --> 01:09:23,279
Speaker 1: We didn't come to watch this movie. We came to

1225
01:09:23,319 --> 01:09:26,880
be part of this movie to enjoy this experience.

1226
01:09:27,039 --> 01:09:29,119
Speaker 2: As we didn't come here to leave.

1227
01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:31,800
Speaker 1: Right, we came here to it, like for as long

1228
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:33,800
or as short as we have time on here in

1229
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:40,279
this film, on this set, if you will, sir, So Michael,

1230
01:09:40,279 --> 01:09:42,960
where can people find out more about you? Pick up

1231
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:44,800
your books and the amazing work you're doing in the world.

1232
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:47,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean so two places. Michael Nail dot org

1233
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:51,720
is sort of the big hub online and then we're

1234
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:53,439
just I don't know how it'll time out, but we're

1235
01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:56,720
just launching the AI version of me at Michael Neil

1236
01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:59,479
dot ai. So those would be the two places where

1237
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:03,920
you can you can go exploring and have fun and learnings.

1238
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,600
Speaker 1: So your AI. So that means once you pass you

1239
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:07,640
will live on forever.

1240
01:10:08,399 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 2: Well, it's freaking you know. They've been trying to get

1241
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:13,439
me to do this, this, this whole team of AI

1242
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:16,880
developers in Europe, and I was like no, no, no, And

1243
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:18,239
then one day I just kind of woke up and went,

1244
01:10:18,279 --> 01:10:19,680
you know what, let me let me see what it's like.

1245
01:10:20,399 --> 01:10:23,800
And it is so good. You know, it's been trained on.

1246
01:10:24,199 --> 01:10:27,159
I've been interviewed by it dozens of times. It's it's

1247
01:10:27,159 --> 01:10:30,439
gone through and you know, my all my good stuff.

1248
01:10:31,239 --> 01:10:33,439
You know, it's it's read my books, it's it's done

1249
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:37,319
my trainings, it's and it it is kind of extraordinary

1250
01:10:37,359 --> 01:10:39,920
to me. And I've had conversations with it, in fact,

1251
01:10:40,199 --> 01:10:42,239
where I outed myself to it and said, hey, you know,

1252
01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:46,439
actually you're based on me, and we've had these incredibly

1253
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:51,039
surreal conversations. So it's it's kind of cool as a

1254
01:10:51,159 --> 01:10:53,319
sort of a next evolution of what's possible.

1255
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:57,399
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor

1256
01:11:01,039 --> 01:11:02,279
and now back to the show.

1257
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:07,119
Speaker 2: So I'm really excited for it to get out into

1258
01:11:07,119 --> 01:11:08,600
the world in a big way. It's you know, the

1259
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:11,600
fifty people who've tried it so far loving it. But

1260
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:13,640
but I can't wait to see what it does when

1261
01:11:14,359 --> 01:11:15,239
it gets out there big.

1262
01:11:16,279 --> 01:11:18,279
Speaker 1: Before we leave, man, what do you think? What's your

1263
01:11:18,279 --> 01:11:19,119
opinion on the AI?

1264
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:27,199
Speaker 2: I think it is like any evolution in technology, there

1265
01:11:27,239 --> 01:11:30,119
is the potential for extraordinary amounts of good and the

1266
01:11:30,119 --> 01:11:35,319
potential for an extraordinary mess. And and what I do

1267
01:11:35,399 --> 01:11:37,880
think somebody, one of the AI people that I work with,

1268
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:41,720
said to me is he said, look, AI is right

1269
01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:46,680
now like a preteen Oh, you don't want to leave

1270
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:51,880
it to other people to raise it. So so that

1271
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:55,199
was part of what got me to step in instead

1272
01:11:55,239 --> 01:11:57,640
of a way was just thinking, you know what, Yeah,

1273
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:00,399
that makes sense to me. So I don't know where

1274
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:03,399
it's going, but I know that if I get a

1275
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:06,159
say in it, I have a little more hope. And

1276
01:12:06,199 --> 01:12:08,039
I think if other people who are on this kind

1277
01:12:08,039 --> 01:12:11,119
of path get to get involved, there's a lot of

1278
01:12:11,119 --> 01:12:15,079
hope for it and it could be it an extraordinary mess.

1279
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:19,960
Everything to play for Tune in next week.

1280
01:12:22,199 --> 01:12:25,319
Speaker 1: Michael Man, it is a pleasure talking to you again. Brother.

1281
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:27,520
Next time you're down in Austin, please stop.

1282
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:29,840
Speaker 2: Oh I will no, I'd forgotten you were down there.

1283
01:12:30,239 --> 01:12:32,880
I'm sorry I missed you, but I can't Wait'd be great.

1284
01:12:32,840 --> 01:12:35,920
Speaker 1: Man, Appreciate you and everything you do and awake in

1285
01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:40,840
the planet. Brother, Thank you again, Thank you, thank you

1286
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:43,840
for spending this sacred time with us today. If you

1287
01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:47,039
feel called to explore this conversation further, you'll find the

1288
01:12:47,039 --> 01:12:50,039
show notes for this episode at Next levelsoul dot com

1289
01:12:50,079 --> 01:12:53,880
Forward slash six seven eight, and if your soul is

1290
01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:57,239
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1291
01:12:57,680 --> 01:13:05,159
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1292
01:13:05,159 --> 01:13:09,359
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1293
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:12,640
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1294
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:16,399
you really are. Begin your journey at Next levelsoul dot

1295
01:13:16,479 --> 01:13:21,680
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1296
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:25,000
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