WEBVTT 1 00:00:13.439 --> 00:00:17.719 Everyone, Welcome to a brand new episode of Startups Still Say, 2 00:00:18.679 --> 00:00:22.719 hope you're all doing well. Today's episode I'm actually super 3 00:00:22.760 --> 00:00:25.120 excited about because of the first episode be doing it 4 00:00:25.160 --> 00:00:28.120 in person with our guests. And today's guest happens to 5 00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:33.359 be Lucas Josephi from widget Book. He happens to be 6 00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:35.799 someone whom I know for the last two years, someone 7 00:00:35.799 --> 00:00:39.520 whom I've admired for doing his startup at a very 8 00:00:39.560 --> 00:00:43.320 young age, took on a big risk and jumped in 9 00:00:43.320 --> 00:00:47.000 into the world of startups. So we'll be talking to 10 00:00:47.079 --> 00:00:51.399 Lucas today about his journey, what widget Book does, and 11 00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:54.479 some of the inputs that he can share with the 12 00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:57.079 world of startups. So Lucas, first of all, welcome to 13 00:00:57.159 --> 00:00:59.759 Startups Still Say. 14 00:01:01.039 --> 00:01:03.119 Thanks. I love for having me Anthony. 15 00:01:05.319 --> 00:01:09.799 It's a pleasure, So Lucas, so let's get things kicked off. 16 00:01:09.840 --> 00:01:12.120 I mean, I know you for a couple of years now. 17 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:16.599 For those of you who don't know about the Flutter community, 18 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:20.799 Flutter is a technology or an open source framework from 19 00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:23.280 Google which I used to be part of. I'm still 20 00:01:23.319 --> 00:01:27.120 I am, and I ran into Lucas while we were 21 00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:31.920 collaborating on with both of our companies, and I happen 22 00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:35.799 to be here at a conference called flutter Con in Berlin. 23 00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:39.359 Lucas was kind enough to be part of this particular 24 00:01:39.359 --> 00:01:42.159 podcast and tell us about his journey. So, Lucas, I 25 00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:45.359 know you as the CEO of widget Book. I know 26 00:01:45.480 --> 00:01:49.840 you as this smart, exuberant CEO of a company, a 27 00:01:49.879 --> 00:01:53.840 guy who loves outdoors from all your adventures in California 28 00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:57.760 and here as well. And I know you'll like to 29 00:01:58.040 --> 00:02:01.000 party a bit as well. But other than that, I 30 00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:03.040 don't know anything else about you. So tell us a 31 00:02:03.079 --> 00:02:06.079 little bit about yourself and maybe tell us about what 32 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:07.879 led you to start visit book as well. 33 00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:13.120 Yeah, happy, happy to share it. Thanks for the kind words. 34 00:02:13.159 --> 00:02:16.800 So, as you already said, I'm Lucas, co founder and 35 00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:18.680 CEO of ridget Book. 36 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:22.080 I'm an entrepreneur and. 37 00:02:22.599 --> 00:02:26.919 I'm really curious and in general about a lot of things. 38 00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:31.000 I think that's curiosity and then led me into the 39 00:02:31.039 --> 00:02:35.719 part of on the part of entrepreneurship. Other than that 40 00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:39.000 I already mentioned, I really love to spend time outdoors 41 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:43.639 away from the laptop as well. Helps me to relax 42 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:48.199 and get a clear head. But to answer your question, 43 00:02:48.599 --> 00:02:51.800 how I am got in the world of startups. How 44 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:55.639 I got through what I'm doing today is I was 45 00:02:56.199 --> 00:02:59.319 inspired and mainly by my by my uncle and so 46 00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:04.120 my ankle's not an entrepreneur, but he also took a 47 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:08.000 big risk because he moved with his family away from Germany. 48 00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:12.520 So I'm originally from from Germany. My my uncle as well, 49 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:16.960 and he moved to Canada and with his family. I 50 00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:20.319 think he was like his late twenties or early thirties, 51 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:24.319 twenty or something years ago. And then just when I 52 00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:27.479 finished high school, I visited him in Canada and it 53 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:31.840 was an amazing experience being abroad really for the first time. 54 00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:35.520 I spent a few weeks there, I had another internship 55 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:38.520 and the first time away from home, away from the family, 56 00:03:38.599 --> 00:03:40.759 and so I could really see, okay, what kind of 57 00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:46.800 other life you could also live. And then when I 58 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:50.240 started studying, and it was just very very quickly, Okay, 59 00:03:50.360 --> 00:03:53.719 entrepreneurship is the path I am I really. 60 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:57.319 Like to go for. And so I actually have a 61 00:03:57.360 --> 00:03:58.199 business background. 62 00:03:58.840 --> 00:04:05.000 So I studied international business, so business with like German, 63 00:04:05.199 --> 00:04:07.560 English and French, so I had some languages with it 64 00:04:07.599 --> 00:04:12.280 as well, and I didn't particularly like my studies too much. 65 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:14.800 It was it was good that you kind of learned 66 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:17.720 how to sell yourself and how to talk, but I 67 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:20.480 also wanted to at some point then have some real skills, 68 00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:22.120 and that's why on the side. 69 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:23.399 I also learned how to code. 70 00:04:23.879 --> 00:04:25.800 I have to say, I'm not the best developer, so 71 00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:29.279 I can't get things to work. But I'm very happy 72 00:04:29.279 --> 00:04:32.079 that today have a team that does it a lot better. 73 00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:32.959 Than when I can. 74 00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:37.279 But very early in my studies, I founded the corporate startup, 75 00:04:38.439 --> 00:04:42.199 which basically was a company that came to the university 76 00:04:42.519 --> 00:04:47.079 and they had a challenge prepared for the students. So 77 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:49.279 what they did is I think they brought like twenty 78 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:54.480 people with twenty employees from that corporate, twenty students together 79 00:04:54.519 --> 00:04:58.360 in one room and you had teams of fours always 80 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:02.079 two students and two people from the corporate and two 81 00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:06.000 days of solving the challenge. And my team did quite well, 82 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:09.279 and I then gave a representation of what we did. 83 00:05:09.959 --> 00:05:11.680 The corporate liked it a lot, and we're like, hey, Lucas, 84 00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:13.439 would you like to help us on the project. I 85 00:05:13.519 --> 00:05:16.000 was like, sure, let's do it didn't have much to lose, 86 00:05:16.040 --> 00:05:20.800 and I was like eighteen nineteen years old. It actually 87 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:24.079 became quite successful in that in the corporate, and I 88 00:05:24.199 --> 00:05:26.319 was very excited because we were supposed to get shares 89 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:29.639 as well and first handed sales. At some point we 90 00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:32.000 had a webpap as well, and I was like curious. 91 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:35.240 I was like, sure, I learned hard the code A 92 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:39.920 bit can also build that WebP I suppose, and turned 93 00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:43.040 out to work really well. I hold that corporate, but 94 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:48.279 unfortunately that corporate went into financial struggles which led to 95 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:51.959 the CEO being the CEO being fired. New CEO came 96 00:05:52.319 --> 00:05:57.040 basically erased the entire board, and then it was decided 97 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:06.439 that all innovation projects that don't exist for more than 98 00:06:06.519 --> 00:06:09.680 two years are going to be spinned into the company. Again, 99 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:12.920 not a spin off that I and also the team 100 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:16.720 was looking for, soa no shares. Instead, they offered me 101 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:20.439 quite a good compensation for that for that young age, 102 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:22.480 but I declined because I was like, no, I really 103 00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:25.040 want to do my own stuff at that age. 104 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:31.160 And I then started to build web apps because I 105 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:33.800 enjoyed doing it. And when I was at the startup, 106 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:35.279 and then. 107 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:39.439 I stumbled upon something that I like JavaScript developers, it 108 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:43.079 must be familiar with it. Suppose the storybook tas one 109 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:46.680 of the most popular packages in the JavaScript. 110 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:47.120 Or React each system. 111 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:50.800 And at some point I then met today my C 112 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:56.680 my CTO and co found agains at basically the University 113 00:06:56.839 --> 00:07:00.319 incubator and immediately clicked with quite a good connection, and 114 00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:02.959 Yes told me about fluttery and YenS was super passionate 115 00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:06.079 about flattery, basically predicted its going to be the Future's 116 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:09.120 gonna be huge, and I checked it out and I 117 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:13.839 was like, Yin's yeah, copy right, sounds sounds really interesting. 118 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:16.680 And then we started building Flutter apps. 119 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:20.480 And as I told you, I'm not the best developer, 120 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:23.879 so I always try to stick to the things I know. 121 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:28.600 And there was no storybook for Flutter, so we first 122 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:30.439 of all the build it just for ourselves. 123 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:34.120 And then at some point some of our web development 124 00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:36.480 friends switched to Flutter as well, and they were like, hey, 125 00:07:36.560 --> 00:07:39.720 lucas we build a storybook for flatter. 126 00:07:39.519 --> 00:07:42.720 Can we share with us. We're like, sure, let's do it. 127 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:45.839 Let's oversource it, and we immediately build a Discord server 128 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:49.399 as well to support the few users that. 129 00:07:49.480 --> 00:07:51.279 We thought we're gonna we're gonna get. 130 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:53.800 Pretty much overnight, people kept swarming in the server and 131 00:07:53.839 --> 00:07:56.879 we were like, oh, okay, it's something that not only we. 132 00:07:57.000 --> 00:07:59.800 Need, but that also other people are looking forward to 133 00:08:00.680 --> 00:08:00.920 to have. 134 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:07.319 And then we started interviewing our discord server and asked them, Hey, 135 00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:08.199 how would. 136 00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:10.439 You like us to improve the product for you? And 137 00:08:11.639 --> 00:08:14.040 I immediately also had the idea of. 138 00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:20.079 Building something more than just this source package around it 139 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:23.360 because storybook for everyone that is not familiar with it, 140 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:28.720 it allows you to catalog all of your widgets from 141 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:31.560 your website and my overview, it allows you basically to 142 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:35.200 build your design system in code, and it's a great 143 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:39.440 developer tool, but it's also only developer tool, so it 144 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:44.519 doesn't allow any collaboration with designers product managers. Qtas is 145 00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:47.080 basically only for developers, and I was looking for something 146 00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:51.399 more holistically, and we interviewed the discord. 147 00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:55.080 Server for it and they were like, yeah, amazing, do it. 148 00:08:55.919 --> 00:08:59.639 And then around two years ago we decided to quit 149 00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:01.879 our job do it full time and. 150 00:09:03.440 --> 00:09:08.679 Here we are today, awesome Lucas, so glad I could 151 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:12.600 understand the entire story behind widget book. I knew you 152 00:09:12.679 --> 00:09:16.639 were adventurous, Like I said, I mean amazing story. And 153 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:18.240 I was also going to ask you about, I mean, 154 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:21.320 how you found your co founder. You already answered that question. 155 00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:24.399 So it's for two years since you started, now, twenty 156 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:25.840 twenty two since you started. 157 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:27.600 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 158 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:30.000 I mean the open source package is something that we 159 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:35.000 started around twenty twenty one already, but it wasn't full 160 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:37.720 time then, so back then we were still doing other 161 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:42.120 things on the side, and we then incorporated the company 162 00:09:42.360 --> 00:09:43.960 in twenty two. 163 00:09:45.639 --> 00:09:49.799 Great. So obviously you had a plan when you started 164 00:09:49.879 --> 00:09:53.080 widget book, when you quitated jobs and jumped into this. 165 00:09:53.639 --> 00:09:56.840 Has everything gone, asked per plan? Or how many times 166 00:09:56.879 --> 00:10:00.480 have you had to start and stop and start art again? 167 00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:03.840 Yeah? 168 00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:08.480 I mean everyone is saying startup, it's like a roller coaster, 169 00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:15.039 and I have to say, yeah, quite quite accurate. So 170 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:19.279 a lot of times. But the question is always, let's say, 171 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:23.200 how often you really have to throw anything away and 172 00:10:23.320 --> 00:10:29.159 start fully fun scratch And fortunately, to that extent we 173 00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:32.759 we didn't have to do it. But of course we 174 00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:36.279 had a lot of stuff that we tried that didn't work, 175 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:41.159 but fortunately we had more stuff that that worked in 176 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:41.519 the end. 177 00:10:41.559 --> 00:10:45.759 That's why I'm I'm still sitting here and it can 178 00:10:45.879 --> 00:10:49.399 talk to you about which book but two. 179 00:10:51.080 --> 00:10:54.080 In the end give you give you just uh some 180 00:10:54.279 --> 00:10:59.440 examples for for us, for example, we we thought that 181 00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:06.480 building the first paid version of widget books, so in 182 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:09.200 the end you also in the end you need to 183 00:11:09.799 --> 00:11:12.519 have money to have food in your fridge and to 184 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:15.399 pay our rent, and building just an over source package 185 00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:17.360 doesn't do the trick. And that's why for us it 186 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:19.000 was quite clear, okay, we have to come up with 187 00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:24.399 a paid version of widget book. And what is quite 188 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:27.519 obvious to do for us is I mean, I already 189 00:11:27.559 --> 00:11:30.399 told you you can build your own design system with 190 00:11:30.519 --> 00:11:33.679 widget book, and you can just host the widget book 191 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:39.440 made accessible for everyone, so that also designers, create testers, 192 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:41.720 product managers, everyone can look at it. 193 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:45.840 And just hosting is something you can also easily do yourself. 194 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:49.120 And that's why we thought initially, okay, it might take 195 00:11:49.240 --> 00:11:54.279 us quite long until we get the first revenue because 196 00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:57.240 you can just host it yourself. But we very quickly 197 00:11:57.279 --> 00:11:59.720 found out, okay, there are a lot of companies that 198 00:11:59.840 --> 00:12:02.519 are just interested in hosting, they just don't want to 199 00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:06.159 do it themselves. And that's why we were able to 200 00:12:06.919 --> 00:12:10.799 capture some revenue a lot sooner than we expected, and 201 00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:13.600 we were like, okay, great that to raise venture capital 202 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:17.399 and scaly immediately, and we did manage to raise venture 203 00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:23.320 capital then quite quite soon basically to get to a 204 00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:27.480 state where our customers were really happy with the cloud. 205 00:12:27.720 --> 00:12:30.360 That then took a lot longer than we expected because 206 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:35.360 Justice hosting it's nice, but the current product so basically 207 00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:38.559 now nearly two years in the future. Now the product 208 00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:40.679 is great. Now our customers are really happy with it, 209 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:45.600 but it really took us some time to build the 210 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:49.399 features that our customers were actually looking for. And that's 211 00:12:49.399 --> 00:12:53.519 why it's always kind of hard to predict. And so 212 00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:57.039 whenever you're building something that didn't exist before, it's quite 213 00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:00.679 difficult to predict how long will it take you to 214 00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:05.799 build it versus if you're just building just now in 215 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:10.600 parenthesis here, if you're just building something that already just before, 216 00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:12.879 if you're building just another app, and then you might 217 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:15.519 have the challenge of finding. 218 00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:16.519 A better business model. 219 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:19.279 But for us, it was basically okay, the business model 220 00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:22.759 is quite straightforward and also quite straightforward and finding customers 221 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:25.840 for it. It's really difficult to build it, and it 222 00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:26.679 took longer. 223 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:29.679 Than expected for the Cloud awesome. 224 00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:34.120 So you've talked a little bit about you know, mentor 225 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:37.960 funding so to speaks. I mean, what stage of the 226 00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:40.799 company are you in two years in I mean, did 227 00:13:40.840 --> 00:13:43.679 you have to bootstrap and start the company and you 228 00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:46.960 found funding along the way. I mean, you know, for 229 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:49.559 those people who are listening to this, I mean, what 230 00:13:49.720 --> 00:13:53.440 sort of help do you need at all with any funding? 231 00:13:53.720 --> 00:13:55.279 Funding at all? Reading a stand right now. 232 00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:00.960 So what we did, and. 233 00:14:02.559 --> 00:14:04.759 That is something that is specific for the country that 234 00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:07.399 we started in, but I'm quite sure also exists in 235 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:08.039 other countries. 236 00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:12.759 In Germany, we can get government brands if. 237 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:15.559 You're if you're starting out as as a young entrepreneur, 238 00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:18.879 well for us, for example, in German it's called Germany, 239 00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:25.279 it's called the Exist Founders Grant, And basically you're writing 240 00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:30.480 a business plan for the idea that you're having, and 241 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:35.159 then you're submitting it. It gets approved or rejected, and 242 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:38.240 then you have enough money to fill your fridge and 243 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:40.039 pay your rent. 244 00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:41.240 But it's of course not. 245 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:44.000 Much money, so it doesn't get you any further than this. 246 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:47.960 But the great thing is if you're young, you don't 247 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:53.159 have much responsibilities. For me, for example, I didn't have children, 248 00:14:53.720 --> 00:14:56.840 I didn't have a wife, I didn't have a mortgage 249 00:14:56.879 --> 00:14:59.440 to pay, so it was it was good enough for me. 250 00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:04.600 And then we basically had one year time so we 251 00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:09.399 are three founders, and that grant allowed us to pay 252 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:14.720 ourselves a small salary and also to buy a MacBooks 253 00:15:15.399 --> 00:15:19.600 with with with good performance to actually build a product 254 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:22.879 in a in a good enough way. 255 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:28.240 And that's how we started out. But as I said, 256 00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:30.879 might be different for other countries. 257 00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:34.720 Awesome, man. I'm also assuming you don't put too much 258 00:15:34.759 --> 00:15:36.840 in your fridge either, so you have a lot less 259 00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:37.799 to buy in your flesh. 260 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:42.879 Yeah, that's that's true, even though i'm as as you know, 261 00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:46.440 I'm two meters tall or in a six feet six 262 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:48.879 so I actually have to eat a lot. 263 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:54.320 Awesome, So I know for a fact, Lucas, I mean 264 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:57.399 in the last two years, I mean, you know, you've 265 00:15:57.519 --> 00:16:01.120 grown in confidence. Like you said, you know, you had 266 00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:05.360 some stops and starts, and yesterday in floodat On your 267 00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:08.519 presentation was a testament to your growth. You had three 268 00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:11.799 live customers on the stage with you to talk about 269 00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:15.559 how they're using bridget Book, the impact you had on 270 00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:19.840 you know, their app development journey. Can you tell us 271 00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:23.480 a little bit more about the growth you growth path 272 00:16:23.559 --> 00:16:26.919 here on and what you're expecting to do before I 273 00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:27.960 say the end of this year. 274 00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:32.200 Yeah, happy, happy to share it. 275 00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:34.120 So I mean, first of all, you talked about the 276 00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:40.960 presentation yesterday, and anyone here that is building their own tool, 277 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:44.519 I can highly recommend when you're giving a presentation at 278 00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:49.799 some conference, bring customer literary stage. It gives not only 279 00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:54.559 you and your team a great confidence boost and quite 280 00:16:54.559 --> 00:17:01.679 a proud moment, but it also shows other potential customers 281 00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:04.160 in the audience that what you're building is quite legit. 282 00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:07.720 Because you, as a founder of course always biased and 283 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:09.720 will always say, yeah, my product is great. I mean, 284 00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:11.880 no founder will ever go to stations with like, yeah, 285 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:15.200 my product is ship don't don't use it. But when 286 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:19.200 customers are saying it outside is they basically they're not 287 00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:21.240 paid to do so in the end they are paying 288 00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:24.920 you for for for the product that is. 289 00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:29.759 That is just more molegit. So quick tip here. But 290 00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:34.440 other than that, I already. 291 00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:36.240 Said that we have an open source package in the 292 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:39.039 core and our source package really made it in the 293 00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:45.759 Flutter community. So our open source package is really popular. 294 00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:49.839 So we have a few thousand companies that are using 295 00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:53.119 the open source package to build their own design system, 296 00:17:53.240 --> 00:17:58.279 and these are from the range from startups to enterprises. 297 00:17:58.880 --> 00:18:02.279 Agencies do it as well. On every content the continent 298 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:04.759 and Wichi book is is being used so not only 299 00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:08.039 in Europe, heavily in the US by big companies as well, 300 00:18:08.920 --> 00:18:13.839 also in Asia, even in Africa. Basically every everywhere in 301 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:16.880 the world, whichibook is being used already in the over 302 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:22.839 source packet and then on the cloud. We also have 303 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:27.400 a lot of companies that already trust us there. And 304 00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:31.359 the amazing thing here is in the past, which a 305 00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:34.920 book was available in close beta, so you could sign 306 00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:37.720 up for the access to wigi balalk Cloud, but you 307 00:18:37.799 --> 00:18:41.039 had to answer eight questions and depending on how you 308 00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:45.240 answer those questions, you either were allowed to already get 309 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:49.839 access to wigipook or not. And what Anthony mentioned, so 310 00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:56.400 yesterday on stage I also could proudly announce that Wigi 311 00:18:56.440 --> 00:19:01.200 book Cloud is now publicly generally available, so anyone can 312 00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:03.440 now just go to the website, sign up for the 313 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:06.799 access to cloud and then sell on board and get 314 00:19:06.839 --> 00:19:09.240 the excess. I mean, of course we're also happy to 315 00:19:09.319 --> 00:19:12.759 help with democrats if you like, but no longer need it, 316 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:18.319 and that's why we're we will definitely see a lot 317 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:21.759 of growth now because a lot of companies that were not. 318 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:24.920 Able to try which Cloud in the past no fund we. 319 00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:29.440 Can That is incredible. Yeah, I mean I could not 320 00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:32.039 agree with you more about the fact that I mean, 321 00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:36.039 you know you have a live customer testament on the stage. 322 00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:37.240 I mean nothing can beat that. 323 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:37.720 Right. 324 00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:40.400 You can put all you want within double quotes on 325 00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:45.359 the website, but having them in front of your prospects 326 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:49.119 in the audience and saying here are my happy customers. Uh, 327 00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:54.960 that is that is really nicely done. So great story locas. 328 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:58.200 I mean, obviously as a CEO, you continue to think 329 00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:02.119 about not just today, You've got to think about what's tomorrow, 330 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:04.880 what's the next six months, what's the next two years, 331 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:08.079 three years? So with that in mind, I mean, what 332 00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:10.640 keeps you up at night? I know you do a 333 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:14.799 lot of outdoors to relax, or what what keeps you 334 00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:16.480 up at night to keep visiting book going? 335 00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:22.720 Pretty much? What what doesn't keep you up at night? 336 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:22.960 Right? 337 00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:30.759 So, in the end, as a as a CEO, you 338 00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:37.119 like not everything is It's just nice because if you're 339 00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:41.599 it's a regular employee, at some point at your day 340 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:45.079 you go home and then you can kind of turn 341 00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:47.400 off your head, do something, do something else, and then 342 00:20:47.799 --> 00:20:48.359 just come back. 343 00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:50.440 To work and your your boss might tell you, Okay, 344 00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:52.079 these are the priorities. You can work on them. 345 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:59.240 Fine, But if something doesn't work at Widget Book, ultimately 346 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:05.920 it's it's my responsibility. So I can never escalate something 347 00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:10.880 to someone else. So I mean, the great thing is 348 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:13.160 that I have I have amazing co founders and that 349 00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:16.640 have their own areas of responsibility. So for example, something 350 00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:19.559 is broken in the product, again, this doesn't come to 351 00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:21.920 me and it's like Lucas, you need to fix it. 352 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:24.319 So that's something that's good where I have the ends 353 00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:27.480 on the on the on the technical side, or Julius 354 00:21:27.519 --> 00:21:33.920 with with finance and illegal but if there's issues with customers, 355 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:36.960 with investors, those things that in the end could potentially 356 00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:42.160 kill the company, I would say unfortunately, but also fortunately 357 00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:47.799 my my responsibility. So I am in the end in UH, 358 00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:52.160 in charge and can can just not say if the 359 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:53.839 if the house is burning, yeah I don't care. 360 00:21:54.119 --> 00:21:58.599 I just go home that that doesn't work. And then 361 00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:01.680 it's also a question of your or of your mindset. 362 00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:08.880 How much UH do you care about about the the product, 363 00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:11.319 the startup that you're building, how much are you caring 364 00:22:11.319 --> 00:22:11.920 about your team? 365 00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:19.480 And for me the past two years, I've basically done 366 00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:24.119 done nothing else than than than building widget Book. 367 00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:29.799 In the end, it's a huge time commitment that that 368 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:34.559 I've been having. And the people that are. 369 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:39.640 Working at the wigit Book also are really really close 370 00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:43.880 to me. So these other people I've seen more than 371 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:46.880 anyone else in my in my life. 372 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:51.759 And I really really really want to make this work. 373 00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:54.799 And fortunately we are. We're on a good path. 374 00:22:55.960 --> 00:22:59.319 But there have also been times where I've got a 375 00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:04.799 bit harder, and we also had to take difficult decisions 376 00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:09.960 that were just necessary for for the business. So we 377 00:23:10.519 --> 00:23:13.839 for example, also had to lay off employees where it 378 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:15.119 didn't work. 379 00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:18.240 Culturely anymore. 380 00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:23.119 And Lisa, of course decisions that are necessary, but that 381 00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:26.000 are the decison that you don't want to take. You know, 382 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:31.359 it's crucial for the business, but I would much rather 383 00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:36.200 have enjoyed, i don't know two to go for workout 384 00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:40.599 or to or to go outdoors than having to lay 385 00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:41.960 off an employee for example. 386 00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:47.559 Yeah, So my next question was is going to build 387 00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:50.559 on something you said, which is culture? Right, as a 388 00:23:51.000 --> 00:23:56.119 super young entrepreneur and maybe with very little experience of 389 00:23:56.240 --> 00:24:00.200 building the company, where did you draw inspiration from? What 390 00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:03.160 sort of culture you wanted in the company? You know 391 00:24:03.319 --> 00:24:06.480 how to keep everybody's moral high. And like you said, 392 00:24:06.519 --> 00:24:08.440 I mean, if it's not a culture fit, I mean 393 00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:11.559 you got to identify that quickly and fix that they 394 00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:15.440 for it becomes a bigger problem. But I mean as 395 00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:18.079 a CEO, I mean, what sort of culture did you 396 00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:19.079 want to put together? 397 00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:26.319 Yeah, so I think here you you don't get an 398 00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:29.279 answer that that fits for for everyone. So I think 399 00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:34.160 you just have to be authentic as a person and 400 00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:37.519 in the end as a team. And so for for us, 401 00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:40.880