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We're prohibited by Law 22 00:00:56.840 --> 00:01:16.519 eighteen plus terms and conditions apply see website for d. 23 00:01:08.200 --> 00:01:11.599 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 24 00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:14.719 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 25 00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:22.079 written about them, Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 26 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:25.799 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 27 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:30.079 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 28 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:33.280 host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 29 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:46.560 Good evening. In this expanded twentieth anniversary edition of Murder 30 00:01:46.599 --> 00:01:50.879 of a Mafia Daughter, seasoned crime writer Kathy Scott provides 31 00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:56.040 in depth new details of serial killer Robert durst arrest, trial, 32 00:01:56.120 --> 00:02:00.280 and conviction for the brutal murder of Susan Berman. Kids 33 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:04.599 never before seen photos of Susan. Also included is durst 34 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:08.159 forty thousand dollars mask he planned to use to elude 35 00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:11.879 police while on the lamb. Susan Berman grew up in 36 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:15.520 Las Vegas luxury as the daughter of Davy Berman, casino 37 00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:19.560 mogul and notorious mafia leader. After her father died, she 38 00:02:19.639 --> 00:02:23.639 learned about his mob connections. Susan then dedicated her life 39 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:27.919 to learning about Vegas and its underworld chiefs. Her life 40 00:02:27.960 --> 00:02:31.039 took a bizarre turn in nineteen eighty two, when Kathy Durst, 41 00:02:31.599 --> 00:02:35.319 the wife of her good friend Robert Durst, mysteriously disappeared. 42 00:02:36.199 --> 00:02:39.960 Kathy's husband was a prime suspect, but the case was 43 00:02:40.039 --> 00:02:44.639 never solved. After the Kathy Durst case reopened, the media 44 00:02:44.759 --> 00:02:47.080 leaked that the phone call that appeared to be Kathy 45 00:02:47.159 --> 00:02:50.120 calling her medical school dean saying she was sick and 46 00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:53.520 wouldn't be at school. The call was placed the morning 47 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:58.599 after she disappeared. Soon after the Kathy Durst case was reopened, 48 00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:01.719 Susan Berman was found dead, shot in the back of 49 00:03:01.759 --> 00:03:06.400 the head. No forced entry, no robbery, nothing missing from 50 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:10.479 her home. This expanded and updated book covers what led 51 00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:15.680 to Durst's twenty fifteen capture. Police records placed Durst in 52 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:18.840 California at the time of his good friend Susan Berman's murder. 53 00:03:19.560 --> 00:03:24.560 HBO filmmakers discovered an envelope unknown before, written by Durst 54 00:03:24.639 --> 00:03:27.960 to Susan. The handwriting and spelling of Beverly Hills was 55 00:03:28.039 --> 00:03:30.919 dead on match to the cadaver letter police say the 56 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:35.120 killer mailed to police informing them of Susan's death before 57 00:03:35.159 --> 00:03:40.240 her body was discovered. This new release covers Durst's lengthy 58 00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:43.800 murder trial and the slang of his best friend. The 59 00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:46.560 book we're featuring this evening is Murder of a Mafia 60 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:52.199 Daughter Expanded and Updated twentieth anniversary edition, Robert Durst and 61 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:56.719 Susan Berman, the shocking inside story with my special guest 62 00:03:56.759 --> 00:04:02.039 journalist and investigative and Gaive journalist and author Kathy Scott. 63 00:04:02.319 --> 00:04:04.319 Welcome back to the program, and thank you so much 64 00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:06.199 for this interview. Kathy Scott. 65 00:04:06.439 --> 00:04:08.840 You're welcome, Dan, thank you, thank. 66 00:04:08.680 --> 00:04:12.599 You so much, and congratulations on this new, expanded and 67 00:04:12.680 --> 00:04:14.479 update twentieth anniversary edition. 68 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:15.360 Thank you. 69 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:19.360 Let's start off with what we mentioned it a little 70 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:22.519 bit in the introduction, but what is included in this 71 00:04:22.600 --> 00:04:24.600 new updated edition. 72 00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:28.360 Well, there are new interviews with her family and several 73 00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:31.519 members of her family. She had had a lot of 74 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:36.800 cousins and with their thoughts on the trial and as 75 00:04:36.839 --> 00:04:41.160 well as Durst died, you know, while I was still 76 00:04:41.240 --> 00:04:45.360 finishing the update, and I was able to include that 77 00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:48.199 as a final you know, as the end to the book, 78 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:52.720 and there's real finality to it. But I also watched 79 00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:56.439 the entire trial and added some of the testimony as 80 00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:59.319 it was live, you know, going on. And the beauty 81 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:01.879 of it is Robert Durst. You know, he thought he 82 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:06.040 was the smartest man in the room, and he testified 83 00:05:06.079 --> 00:05:09.319 on his own behalf, and so I was able to 84 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:13.920 include some of just the absurdities, and he laughed, he 85 00:05:14.040 --> 00:05:17.680 mocked people. It was really pretty sad, but he you know, 86 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:21.439 I said he was too mean to die, but he 87 00:05:21.480 --> 00:05:26.879 did after the trial. But so it's gone full circle 88 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:30.639 now the book, you know, the twenty fifteen I had 89 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:35.079 an addition come out with his arrest and now the conviction, 90 00:05:35.720 --> 00:05:40.879 and then the New York District Attorney filed charges against 91 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:44.759 Robert Durst before he died for the murder of his wife, Kathy, 92 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:48.519 So that's also included in the book, and a whole 93 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:53.040 lot more details. And Kathy Durst's brother I interviewed him 94 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:56.160 for it as well, just a lot of details as well, 95 00:05:56.240 --> 00:06:00.959 things that like the forty thousand dollars masks that he 96 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:04.920 was going to wear and go out, you know, try 97 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:08.839 to go become a fugitive again. He testified about that, 98 00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:12.879 he admitted it. So there's a whole lot more in 99 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:16.160 the book. And as I said, it's complete now. So 100 00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:18.360 I'm very happy about that. 101 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:21.800 Let's we have to go back in this story and 102 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:24.759 can't just talk about the trial and because there's too 103 00:06:24.839 --> 00:06:29.439 much to to really unpack. So as you do in 104 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:33.959 the book, let's go back to how Susan Berman met 105 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:38.360 Robert Durst, but also who Susan Berman really was. 106 00:06:38.920 --> 00:06:42.639 Well, Susan met Robert Durst at UCLA when she was 107 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:46.759 an undergrad there and he was there for graduate school. 108 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:50.439 They met in the quad and became instant friends. They 109 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:53.639 had a lot in common. Bobby to her, I call 110 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:57.040 him Bobby because she called him that. But Durst to 111 00:06:57.120 --> 00:07:02.120 her was mysterious. He was kind of a quiet, quiet guy, 112 00:07:02.839 --> 00:07:05.519 and they had a lot in common because he came 113 00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:08.839 from money, she came from money. They both lost their 114 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:13.000 mothers at a young age, and it just was an 115 00:07:13.079 --> 00:07:16.879 instant bond and she always looked at him as as 116 00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:22.519 her big brother. And then Susan's background was her dad 117 00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:26.319 was Davey Berman, who became a He was a mobster 118 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:31.279 in the Midwest and came out to Las Vegas in 119 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:35.319 forty six, I think it was to nineteen forty six 120 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:39.920 to be partners with Bugsy Siegel and Davy Berman ran 121 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:43.399 the Riviera and the skim you know, you know, the 122 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:46.759 mob gets as much the owners get that much, so 123 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:50.199 he ran the casino for the skim for the mob, 124 00:07:50.759 --> 00:07:54.959 Chicago Mob, and she grew up in She grew up 125 00:07:55.000 --> 00:08:00.399 in luxury and spoiled, rotten and had an and she 126 00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:04.639 adored her father and he died when she was twelve, 127 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:07.920 and then her mother committed suicide when she was thirteen. 128 00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:10.959 She went to live with her uncle, Chickie, who was 129 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:15.560 also in the mob, and went to private school and 130 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:19.120 then went to college and that's when she met Robert durs. 131 00:08:19.399 --> 00:08:22.959 You talk about her career that once she found out 132 00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:26.639 about her father, she was so sheltered her life that 133 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:30.160 she didn't find out about her father's past, and murderous 134 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:35.440 passed and organized crime passed till she was almost she 135 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:38.279 was in her teenager, almost twenty years old. So as 136 00:08:38.320 --> 00:08:41.120 a result of that, what did she do, as you write, 137 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:44.759 what was the result of gaining this information and what 138 00:08:44.840 --> 00:08:47.039 should she do as a result? What did she become? 139 00:08:47.799 --> 00:08:51.919 Susan became a historian for her father. She wrote the 140 00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:55.879 book Easy Street, which was an incredible book. It's really 141 00:08:56.639 --> 00:08:59.799 just be you know, her entire life with her parents, 142 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:04.080 and she had her father on a pedestal and bragged 143 00:09:04.200 --> 00:09:08.039 on when she wrote When her book came out, Easy Street, 144 00:09:08.559 --> 00:09:14.000 she was on Jane Pauly's show and said, and proudly said, 145 00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:17.039 she read it in the book she researched. She spent 146 00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:22.360 years researching her father and anything who was mentioned, and 147 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:27.039 she devoured it. And she very proudly said on National 148 00:09:27.159 --> 00:09:30.159 TV that her father could kill a man with one 149 00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:34.000 hand behind his back. And when her body was found 150 00:09:34.039 --> 00:09:39.639 in her house greeting police in the house above her fireplace, 151 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:43.480 Mantle was a wanted poster for murder for her father, 152 00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:49.960 and she carried around his police mugshot in her wallet. 153 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:53.919 She was quite proud of who he was and thought 154 00:09:53.960 --> 00:09:57.799 he didn't get enough notice as a big monster in Vegas, 155 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:01.120 that others got more notice, and he did, and she 156 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:03.120 was trying to put his name out there and give 157 00:10:03.159 --> 00:10:04.000 him notoriety. 158 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:09.480 She was trained as a journalist under some very fine journalists, 159 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:16.519 and so she became a respected journalist before she wrote 160 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:20.600 novels and then wrote Easy Street. Tell us what the 161 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:24.639 relationship was. You mentioned that they were like brother and sister, 162 00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:28.039 but Susan always wanted to have children. So tell us 163 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:31.519 about what happened in her life for this to become 164 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:32.960 a reality. 165 00:10:32.759 --> 00:10:39.159 Which Susan. Susan got married to mister Margalise. His dad 166 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:43.080 worked for her father, the Flamingo, and she met him 167 00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:46.720 in line at the Writers Guild in Los Angeles, but 168 00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:52.840 didn't he had substance problems, and so they divorced and 169 00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:58.000 she quickly met a man named Paul, and he had 170 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:03.840 two children, and Sarah and Milla, and uh they were 171 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:06.759 he met She met the daughter first. The boy was 172 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:11.120 a little bit older and she was. She became a 173 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:14.919 mother and housekeeper and you know, took care of the 174 00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:18.840 house away she was. She was raised until her parents died. 175 00:11:18.919 --> 00:11:22.159 And and because she had she had a family, you know, 176 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:25.919 a core family in Las Vegas was with lots of 177 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:28.919 She had a bodyguard, you know growing up you know 178 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:31.559 who is a mobster who was assigned to her and 179 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:35.080 he stayed with her until she graduated from high school. 180 00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:39.559 And so she just relished that life. But she and 181 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:44.600 her husband got into a theater deal and Susan took 182 00:11:44.639 --> 00:11:47.639 all the money she had left. She she inherited a 183 00:11:47.639 --> 00:11:49.840 lot of money over the years, and she took all 184 00:11:49.879 --> 00:11:53.720 the money she had left and put it into this 185 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:57.600 project that bombed in New York. She went and spent 186 00:11:57.679 --> 00:12:00.840 time in New York, and she and Paul they lived together. 187 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:04.720 They did it. They weren't married. But when they splad 188 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:07.440 up over the film and the loss of the money 189 00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:10.639 or the theater production and the loss of the money, 190 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:15.120 Meli stayed with her and stayed with Susan, and Susan 191 00:12:15.639 --> 00:12:20.960 finished raising her until the girl entered college. So for 192 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:24.519 Susan it was a dream come true meeting him because 193 00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:27.600 she had the children she wanted that she'd always wanted. 194 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:31.480 You talk about the money that she had, and that 195 00:12:31.559 --> 00:12:35.279 she was spoiled when she was a kid, and every 196 00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:40.200 whim was entertained. Talked about Liberachi playing at her birthday party, 197 00:12:40.279 --> 00:12:44.240 and one time she asked if he could her father, 198 00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:48.759 very influential and powerful father, could get Elvis Presley to 199 00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:52.559 do something for her birthday, and she did get that 200 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:56.200 as well. Tell us a little bit about the deal 201 00:12:56.480 --> 00:12:59.679 that happened where she got a lot of money from 202 00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:03.720 the world from the casino, so in effect, the organized 203 00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:06.720 crime partners that he had took care of her and 204 00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:10.360 then gave her a significant amount of money. You talk 205 00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:15.440 about five point two five million and significant. So tell 206 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:18.240 us a little bit about this deal. And regardless of 207 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:22.360 that money. What kind of financial situation was she in 208 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:23.519 most of the time. 209 00:13:23.480 --> 00:13:27.320 Well, Susan did inherit money from the time she was 210 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:31.320 twenty one until she was thirty, and her dad owned 211 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:34.639 a percentage of time shares in Las Vegas, a couple 212 00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:37.320 of casinos. I think the mint might have been one 213 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:40.159 of them, a Flamingo, and there was one other It's 214 00:13:40.159 --> 00:13:43.960 in the book. And so they gave her payments and 215 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:47.919 her uncle Chickie, until she was twenty one, he got 216 00:13:47.960 --> 00:13:52.000 paid to take care of her and provide her with things, 217 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:55.320 and her cousin who she grew up with her that 218 00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:59.799 part of her childhood, her older childhood, her cousins were 219 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:04.240 in same household where their father was doting Susan with 220 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:07.120 all these things. Well, he was doing it because he 221 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:09.480 was getting paid to do it and told to do it. 222 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:14.240 It was part of the trust because of his interest. 223 00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:17.080 So it wasn't really the mobsters who were paying him. 224 00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:21.399 It was the casinos. He had an interest, and there 225 00:14:21.480 --> 00:14:24.080 was a business manager who took care of it for 226 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:27.279 all of them, and so they would dole out the money. 227 00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:30.200 I think it was. She got three large payments, one 228 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:33.080 when she was twenty one one, when she was twenty five, 229 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:36.000 I believe, and then another when she was thirty, and 230 00:14:36.039 --> 00:14:39.559 that ended it, and it added up to the five 231 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:45.159 point something million dollars. And so Susan, instead of investing 232 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:47.080 the money, which she could have lived off of the 233 00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:50.159 interest for the rest of her life and lived very well, 234 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:52.919 she spent it. She also got one hundred and eighty 235 00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:56.960 five thousand dollars advance for her book Easy Street, and 236 00:14:57.000 --> 00:15:00.559 she got a movie deal that was lucrative, fell through, 237 00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:03.240 but she got to keep She got to keep the money, 238 00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:06.759 which was in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. She 239 00:15:06.840 --> 00:15:12.240 bought a house in Los Angeles and lost it because 240 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:17.559 over after the theater deal fell through with her boyfriend Paul, 241 00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:22.159 she went into foreclosure and lost her house. She would 242 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:24.559 hit up all of her friends, and her friends didn't 243 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:28.039 know Susan didn't tell them that she was, that she 244 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:30.240 had come into money, and that she had had all 245 00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:34.159 this money until she was thirty. And she she would 246 00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:36.840 go to Elaine's when she was living in New York 247 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:42.200 in her in her twenties, she would go to Elaine's, 248 00:15:42.279 --> 00:15:49.320 you know, the big Tony restaurant there and buy everybody dinner. 249 00:15:49.639 --> 00:15:49.879 You know. 250 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:55.399 She would she would go and buy buy custom alligators 251 00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:59.120 shoes or boots and get three colors instead of one. 252 00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:03.279 She'd get four silk shirts for her south blouses instead 253 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:06.240 of one. So she spent lavishly, and I think it 254 00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:09.960 was because of her childhood. No one ever gave her 255 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:14.600 the tools to manage her life. Everything was always taken 256 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:18.200 care for her. She had drivers, she had you know, 257 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:21.440 everything was done for her. And she was you know, 258 00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:25.679 she was a poor, little rich girl basically, and who 259 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:29.840 should have been able to maintain an incredible lifestyle with 260 00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:32.320 the money she was given. But she squandered at all. 261 00:16:32.600 --> 00:16:37.679 And she lived her house when she died was sad. 262 00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:40.200 I mean she she had pulled the carpet up in 263 00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:44.320 the floor. She was living on concrete floors and unfinished, 264 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:48.759 and the heat didn't work, and her half furniture was 265 00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:52.840 gone or broken, and she had a bed that wasn't 266 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:55.080 even on a box spring that was on the floor. 267 00:16:55.559 --> 00:16:59.399 It was sad. But Robert Durst, she'd turned to him 268 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:02.679 for money, and we know that twice he gave her 269 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.599 twenty five thousand dollars payments. One right before she died 270 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:10.200 because her car died and she needed a new new car. 271 00:17:11.039 --> 00:17:15.759 So it's a story of I mean, she joked in 272 00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:20.240 a letter that she had written to Robert Durst, which 273 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:23.400 became part of the court record in this trial. She 274 00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:26.400 joked that she was going to write a new book 275 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:29.400 and it was going to be called rich Girl Broke. 276 00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:32.759 She didn't mind that people knew that she was broke. 277 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:36.519 She hit up all her friends for fifteen hundred, five hundred, 278 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:40.880 you know, one thousand. They would give her money, not 279 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:43.000 knowing that she at one time had a lot. 280 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:47.559 Let's talk about Robert Durst. Now again, the friend that 281 00:17:48.160 --> 00:17:54.400 has comes from billionaire real estate magnates. This guy has Holmes. 282 00:17:55.039 --> 00:18:00.319 This guy has lived very similar to Susan Berman, probably 283 00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:04.720 in much more affluence as well. But Robert Durst marries 284 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:10.759 a woman named Kathy, and so the relationship between Susan 285 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:16.319 and Robert Durst is different. Why is that? And how 286 00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:18.839 did Kathy and Susan get along? 287 00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:23.359 Well, Susan did a lot with Bobby and and Kathy. 288 00:18:23.559 --> 00:18:27.039 They would go places together and their photos of them together. 289 00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:30.279 When she had her book signing, Bobby was still married 290 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:33.440 to Kathy, and he put he paid for her book 291 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:37.279 launch and for Easy Street. I think there was another 292 00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:41.000 book signing that he did for one of her novels, 293 00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:43.599 What is it, Soldier, Give me a gun? Or what 294 00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:46.599 give me a lift? Soldier Give me a lift? And 295 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:50.440 she had a book book signing in New York as 296 00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:52.720 well for that, and Bobby was a part of it. 297 00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:56.200 So I don't she got along with Kathy from from 298 00:18:56.359 --> 00:19:01.720 all appearances people said that they got along. She wasn't 299 00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:04.319 really a friend of Kathy. She was, you know, he 300 00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:08.400 was a wife of her best friend and of Susan's 301 00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:12.640 best friend. I've talked to friends who got together and 302 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:17.759 saw them together, her with Bobby and Kathy, and she 303 00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:21.839 always voted on Bobby, but Kathy didn't seem to mind. 304 00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:25.640 But at the same time, Kathy was going through a 305 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:31.160 period where she was being abused by Robert Durst and 306 00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:35.759 was reached out to a couple of friends, but felt 307 00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:40.400 very isolated and was kind of into herself quite a bit, 308 00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:44.240 going to medical school and trying to survive her marriage 309 00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:47.119 at the same time. And I think she had plans 310 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:51.680 to leave Robert Durst, and that that's why ultimately Kathy 311 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:53.039 Durst got killed. 312 00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:55.839 You talk about her being killed, but the thing is 313 00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:59.240 she disappears in nineteen eighty two. Just tell us a 314 00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:02.440 little bit of theirircumstances that police were aware of at 315 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:04.359 that time in this disappearance. 316 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:09.319 Well, Calthy Durst disappeared in nineteen eighty two and Robert 317 00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:11.960 Durst didn't report it for a week. She was supposed 318 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:15.400 to be It was her finals week, she was in 319 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:18.839 medical school and so it was a very important day. 320 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:22.279 The next she had a fight with Bobby Durst over 321 00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:27.240 her attending a party at a friend's house, and he 322 00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:29.559 said he took her to the train so she could 323 00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:34.039 go stay in their New York penthouse and go to 324 00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:37.240 school the next day in New York. And she never 325 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:39.880 made it on the train. She never made it to school. 326 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:45.599 And Susan's role in that and ultimately I believe got 327 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:48.759 her killed. And maybe I'm jumping ahead, but Susan was 328 00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:52.440 his media person. So when the media wanted to talk 329 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:55.960 to Robert Durst because he's with this great, big real 330 00:20:56.160 --> 00:21:00.640 estate mogul family, I mean, his family built a towers 331 00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:06.640 in New York, and Susan he needed to talk to 332 00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:10.640 the media. They were requesting, you know, interviews with him 333 00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:16.279 over his missing wife, and Susan became his media spokesperson. 334 00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:20.519 Also a phone call was made to the school, which 335 00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:24.480 is unusual for a medical student at her level. She 336 00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:28.000 was about to graduate, and Kathy Durst was about to 337 00:21:28.039 --> 00:21:32.839 graduate for a medical student to call in sick. And 338 00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:37.039 so a woman called in sick the next morning on 339 00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:40.960 behalf of saying she was Kathy Durst. Only she called 340 00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:45.200 the wrong office. So obviously whoever called in didn't know 341 00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:48.920 the right place to call, and the police believed for 342 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:52.799 years that it was Susan who made that call, and 343 00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:56.480 because she would have done anything for Bobby Durst. 344 00:21:56.839 --> 00:22:00.640 So you're right that police had Durst as a suspect, 345 00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:05.200 but very much, especially because of the high powered attorneys 346 00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:09.160 that his family could afford him. The district attorney was 347 00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:13.960 hesitant to do anything against him since they couldn't even 348 00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:17.000 get an official interview with him. They talked to him 349 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:20.680 on the phone after a bunch of days, so needless 350 00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:24.640 to say, they suspected him, but couldn't do anything about 351 00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:26.000 that suspicion. 352 00:22:26.200 --> 00:22:31.440 Correct. Well, the interesting thing I think the clout with 353 00:22:31.480 --> 00:22:35.720 the family Seymour Durst. His father was very powerful and 354 00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:41.119 he made phone calls to the police. But the interesting thing, 355 00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:44.359 the interesting angle is Robert Durst did not report his 356 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:50.839 wife missing from Westchester Salem in Westchester County, New York. 357 00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:55.119 He reported her missing in Manhattan, and he waited five 358 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:58.279 days to go. He walked into the Manhattan Bureau. I 359 00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:03.279 went there and interviewed them, the detectives in Manhattan, and 360 00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:06.839 he walk in with his dog and told him his 361 00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:12.400 wife was missing and from Manhattan from their apartment in Manhattan. 362 00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:15.119 And there was no follow up with the New York 363 00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:21.839 Police Department Manhattan and then Westchester County was she lived there, 364 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:26.920 but she wasn't reported missing from there And basically the 365 00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:29.079 case just stalled. 366 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:32.480 With this case stalling and with the police not be 367 00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:35.960 able to do much with this cold case, what was 368 00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:40.519 Robert Durst doing in the meantime? Again, police suspected him, 369 00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:43.880 but he went on and was living his life. But 370 00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:47.960 he didn't become a serious suspect at all, even in 371 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:51.279 the disappearance of his wife. What happens with the person 372 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:53.240 named Morris. 373 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:59.440 Black So the Westchester Police Janine Perro was the district 374 00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:04.440 attorney at the time. She launched an investigation uh a 375 00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:09.359 few a few years later and Durstcott and Susan in 376 00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:13.720 the meantime quickly Susan Berman. In the meantime, quickly left 377 00:24:13.799 --> 00:24:17.640 New York and went to La, saying she wanted to 378 00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:23.880 be a screenwriter. Susan was freelancing for New York Magazine 379 00:24:24.279 --> 00:24:27.799 and a few others. She was, you know, a good 380 00:24:27.839 --> 00:24:33.319 writer and had excellent writing gigs and worked for them. 381 00:24:34.039 --> 00:24:37.920 She worked with Nicholas Plagy at a magazine, and she 382 00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:40.880 could have had an incredible career had she continued on 383 00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:44.960 but in writing books. But I think she got spooked 384 00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:50.039 because of Kathy Durst, and she knew what happened to her, 385 00:24:50.119 --> 00:24:53.880 I believe, and she went to New La shows liked LA. 386 00:24:54.039 --> 00:24:57.279 Susan did because her dad took her there on weekend trips. 387 00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:02.200 And in the meantime, the police were investigating Durst. He 388 00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:05.559 was walking, you know, walking as a free man, and 389 00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:10.160 he was supposed to take over the Durst organization, but 390 00:25:10.279 --> 00:25:13.960 he was getting, you know, crazier and crazier. His behavior 391 00:25:14.599 --> 00:25:18.519 was odd. Durst was in his family and his father 392 00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:21.039 didn't want to give him the business anymore and wanted 393 00:25:21.079 --> 00:25:25.960 to give it to his brother. So Durst, as as 394 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:32.039 the police in Westchester close in on him, just takes 395 00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:37.240 off and goes to Galveston Bay and lives as a woman, 396 00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:41.680 a mute woman, in a three hundred dollars a month bungalow, 397 00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:45.759 and his next door neighbor is Morris Black. Morris Black 398 00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:51.160 figures out who Durst is and then he gets dead. 399 00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:55.799 So Durst chops him up his body, shoots him, says 400 00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:59.160 it was self defense because they were fighting over a 401 00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:03.200